April 21, 2025 • 58 mins
On The Bookish Hour, we dive into some genuinely shocking book community drama.
Our conversation kicks off with the most disturbing revelation involves an Australian romance author who was recently arrested after publishing a book containing inappropriate content. We discuss how the book was completely scrubbed from all platforms, yet not before receiving some positive reviews, raising serious questions about ethical boundaries in fiction.
The drama continues as we explore the contentious debate around negative reviews on social media. Should readers only post positive content, or is there value in honest criticism?
Finally, we break down the certain booksta/booktoker controversy where a content creator's negative review of a popular book led to an author unfollowing her, spiraling into a much larger drama. This situation perfectly illustrates how parasocial relationships distort online interactions, with followers feeling entitled to defend creators they've never actually met against perceived slights.
Throughout our discussion, we emphasize that ultimately, the power lies with each user to curate their online experience. Whether you're posting reviews or deciding who to follow, you have the ability to create boundaries that work for you in this ever-evolving digital book landscape.
Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
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Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:08):
welcome to the bookish hour with
Fabienne (00:12):
I want to preface have a sore throat so I am
swallowing chewing.
That that's.
It's okay.
It just comes with, like thistime of year, you know the
transition type of weather.
Oh, so you wouldn't feel likesick?
No, no, no, no, definitely not.
I can feel it coming, I see itlike on far down on the horizon,
(00:33):
but I'm like sucking on one ofthose throat pastels.
So if you hear that, likeclicking or clanking, like you
know, in my mouth, like with myteeth, I'm so sorry, just ignore
it.
Just ignore it.
Um, but as I was saying, andactually you were saying too, um
, it is now light out.
Finally.
Um, the Netherlands also wentinto daylight savings time, and
(00:56):
I could not be happier.
That definitely helped.
I honestly I love daylightsavings saving, especially when
we go forward.
I just I love the days feelinglonger even though it might be
shorter, like in the morning, soit like might the sun might not
come out until later, but Ijust love having it light out
(01:17):
for longer, like at night, inthe afternoon, so it makes me so
happy.
Jordan (01:24):
I do have to get used to the fact that it is a little
bit darker again now in themornings because technically
it's like an hour, you know,like in my head still, instead
of like saying it's now like um20 past eight for me.
Then of course it's still liketechnically 20 past seven in my
(01:44):
head, but that works in themorning as well.
So instead of like it being 615 and my alarm goes off, it's
actually 5 15.
So I do struggle with that.
But you know, in the afternoonit's all worth it.
It's all worth it because it'sa light out when I go back home
from work and I'm so happy it'sall worth it in the end honestly
, I'm no better than just like ahouseplant.
(02:06):
All I need is a bit of sunlightand I'm good to go yep, give me
some water, some sunlight andfeed me sometimes, and you know
I'm a happy girl, golden, golden, golden.
Okay, fab, tell me somethinggood that happened to you this
week I actually have quite a fewthings that I could tell you
about right now, but I'm goingto save it for maybe multiple
(02:29):
episodes, just to know.
We'll see.
I like it, I like it.
But the first good thing isthat I booked a trip to London
with my mom.
Fabienne (02:39):
Oh my gosh, that's so exciting.
Jordan (02:42):
I know, and it's partially like for it's like in
part for her birthday, but alsoin part for like Mother's Day
and also in part for ourtradition that we, we kind of
like came up with our owntradition that every single year
we want to do something witheach other.
And in the beginning it waslike just have, you know, like a
mom and a daughter, lunch.
And then it was like, okay,we're going to like, I guess,
(03:03):
expand.
It was like, okay, we're gonnalike, um, I guess, expand this,
and then we're gonna have likedinner and drinks.
And then we were like you knowwhat?
What we should just do thisabroad.
So then we started going tolondon, um, barcelona, um, also
oxford, like last year.
But then this year we want togo to london, and I already to
London with her actually, but itwas such a fun time and I don't
(03:28):
know my mom, like in terms oflike aesthetic, she is London,
she's like that classy Englishtype of woman and I don't know,
I just wanted to do that withher.
So we booked a flight and justfor the sake of the podcast
because I have no idea when thisis going to be, you know,
uploaded or it's going to golive, but we're going to go
fairly soon.
(03:48):
We are going to go in threeweeks time from now oh shit,
actually wait.
Fabienne (03:56):
So is that the last wait?
Is that the last weekend ofapril or the second to last
weekend?
It's the second to lastactually.
Jordan (04:03):
It's the second to last, actually, so it's actually
Easter Sunday, oh you guys aregoing over.
Easter, yeah, like Good Friday,I like that, yeah.
So April 18th until or till, Ishould say, monday, the 22nd, so
four whole days.
That's so exciting.
(04:26):
I'm so excited for you.
Do you guys know?
Fabienne (04:30):
where you're going to stay in London.
Jordan (04:33):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, I booked the hotel and it is in
South Kensington.
Okay, I'm not trying to tell asmuch as as I like on here,
because you never know whoyou're running to and people
might you know, just crazypeople out there you know, yeah,
you don't, but you could justleave it at south kensington not
that I even really know wherethat is, but also london it's so
(04:55):
fucking big jordan it doesn'treally matter like it's so huge,
um.
But I kind of went like down umhow do you say that?
Like I I kind of like spiraled,in a sense of I really went
down a rabbit hole.
That's what I want to say.
I went down a rabbit holebecause I was I google maps the
entire part, like the entire, um, the entire area of london.
(05:18):
So I have like all of the pubs,I have all of the bookshops,
all of the cafes and littlecoffee shops, I have all the
parks.
I look like one of those peoplewho are actually like who
actually comes prepared to acity trip, when normally I am
one of those people who follow.
Fabienne (05:34):
But now but it's good because I feel like so you leave
friday and you come back monday, so you only have two full days
there.
So you have to jam those twofull days.
Jordan (05:45):
That's.
That was my reasoning too, andmy mom was like are you sure
that we have enough time thereto do all this?
I'm like I don't care, I'drather have you know too many
things on the list than toolittle because of the entire
like you know, the full two days, like you said that you have
there.
But then, to be fair, we do flyin friday very, very early,
(06:06):
like we have a plane, that'sgood at eight o'clock in the
morning or so.
Yeah, that is good, but it'salso a little bit tiring because
you wake up really early too togo to the airport and then you
have, like you know, the commutefrom the airport, from here in
amsterdam then in london to, youknow, like the hotel, etc, etc.
Fabienne (06:22):
But yeah, fair, but but it like works out because
then you can still use like thewhole afternoon of Friday to
like do things.
But then do you leave earlyMonday, or is it at least later
on Monday later in the afternoon.
Jordan (06:36):
Yeah, later in the afternoon.
Fabienne (06:37):
It's kind of technically what we always try
to like aim for anyways yeah, no, I feel like that's good,
because then, like you have mostof monday too, like you don't
have to leave until like theafternoon.
Jordan (06:51):
So like that's kind of cool the one thing that I do
always like dread and especiallylike when you go out on a sit
or like go for a city trip iswhen you have like one of those
trolleys, like those little youknow backpacks on like wheelers
or wheels, and then you hobbledown like the city you always
like hear the little ricketykoff the wheels, on like the
cobblestones and you're likeanother tourist.
So I actually have come preparedfor this.
(07:13):
I'm only gonna take one ofthose big rucksacks.
It's not gonna look fancy on myoutfit, I know that, but at
least we're carrying stuff andyou don't have to like, you know
like drag your suitcase behindyou, especially on Monday.
You know, like the, I'm surethat the hotel will keep it for
you until the next, like untilthe next hour.
Say, we have to check out at 11and then you know they might
(07:37):
keep your bags until like, say,two o'clock and then, because
you know they have to, I guess,release the stuff because they
have new people come in.
So I don't want to walk aroundthe city with my suitcase on
wheels for another six hours.
A backpack it is.
Fabienne (07:55):
To be completely honest, I figured the hotel
would keep it for a lot longerthan that.
I feel like the hotel wouldkeep it until you leave, until
you go and get it back.
That would be weird.
Jordan (08:06):
I mean, I also don't maybe know, I don't know how it
works, I don't know.
Fabienne (08:11):
Yeah but I know, like here, they would keep it until
you come back for it being likeI need it, like I'll be like
you'll ask you like what time,like you would be like back,
because then that engages onlike where they would put it, so
they should keep your stuff.
Jordan (08:27):
But I also understand not wanting to have to carry
like a suitcase on wheels, likestill three I also don't, you
know, I don't want to risk likebeing um pickpocketed, as the
british say um.
So you know, I, I want tominimize, minimize, minimize,
minimize that risk.
I mean, yeah, minimize, stuffword.
Fabienne (08:52):
Yeah, that one, that one.
Jordan (08:55):
So, yeah, that's my good week.
So you know, I have somethingreally fun to look forward to.
But I see that you are reallyhyped to talk about Georgia Week
.
Fabienne (09:06):
So much it's funny well, no, okay, so I wasn't
going to say this, but I feellike now that you said a trip, I
at the end of April, that's whyI asked you the weekend, so
it's literally the next weekendme and Nick are going to Maine,
we're gonna go like hike acadia,just super exciting.
(09:27):
But like, so, like technicallythis trip would have been for
his birthday in january, butthen, with like luna's passing,
we decided we were actuallytrying to cancel it all together
because he, just he was like Idon't want to do it anymore.
So I, we booked an airbnb, so Iwas like contacting the airbnb,
but it was like super lastminute.
So I was like contacting theAirbnb, but it was like super
last minute.
So I was like I kind of, Itotally understand if you can't
(09:48):
cancel or if we can't cancel.
And she was like, well, we can'tcancel it but we can move it.
And I was like, okay, like what?
And she, um, you can move it upto like three months.
So so, honestly, I was like,can we have April?
And then we took the lastweekend in April and she was
like, yep, that's fine.
(10:09):
And she like switched out thedates for, like us, no extra
charge.
Because as it gets like closerto like the season, it's like
way more expensive, but the factthat she granted the season
doesn't start until like may,really.
So we're still within like thatoff-season time, but the prices
(10:31):
for the airbnb were more forthis last weekend in april, uh,
versus like mid january.
But I'm actually so excitedbecause it's like cold but it's
not going to be like freezing,like it wasn't been in January.
Jordan (10:44):
Just like a nice chilly in the like a nice chill in the
air, but there's still sun.
Fabienne (10:48):
Exactly so.
I'm like so excited for thislike weekend and we're just
going to treat it as his likebirthday weekend.
It's just now in April.
Jordan (10:57):
I mean, time is only.
You know it's a man madeconstruct honey.
If you just pretend that'sJanuary but then with you know
warmer temperatures, it's hisbirthday weekend, but that is so
fun.
I know I'm like so excitedbecause I've never Sorry, no, no
, no, you go, no, no, no, you go, you go.
Fabienne (11:15):
Oh, because I was going to say I've never hiked it
before and I'm like reallyexcited to like hike it.
Granted, we're staying insurrey, I think is the name.
It's like a, it's a tiny cabin,it's one of those like tiny
homes and oh, that's cool, butthe but the thing is is like
because, like bar harbor barharbor, however you pronounce it
(11:36):
is like what is like rightoutside acadia and that is like
the area that I guess likeyou're supposed to stay in, but
that was like really expensiveI'm supposed to yeah.
so I was like I I'm like, fuckit, we're staying in surrey.
Granted, it will be like adrive, but you leave early in
(11:56):
the morning, you just drivethere, then you hike, you're
it's not like we're gonna likehike into, hike into the I don't
know like you hike a hike andthen you drive back Like whether
it's a 20-minute drive or a40-minute drive, isn't that?
Jordan (12:08):
what you always do, like you go to a place to hike and
then you drive back home, orlike to another place.
You don't walk to a place tohike and then walk back.
Fabienne (12:19):
Yeah.
So I'm like who cares if it'sgoing to be like an hour drive,
Like I feel like we're just andsince it's getting closer to the
end season, like more spotswill be open, which is nice,
because because in January, likethere was only select spots you
could like hike.
Jordan (12:43):
And I was just praying for no snow, which there won't
be any snow in April, hopefully,I mean.
I mean, don't they say thatApril has like its own will?
Do you guys have like a sayinglike that, like April does what
it wants, or something?
Fabienne (12:52):
Well, not necessarily.
I mean it rains a lot.
I wouldn't say there's snow,because there's always the April
showers bring May flowers,that's one.
Jordan (13:01):
Yeah.
Fabienne (13:03):
So I think there could be a lot of rain, which is fine
.
We like when we went to wyomingto hike, like those it was like
raining the whole time I know,I remember you say that oh, like
it was one verybright moment though, amongst
the show, amongst our showersbut it's so funny because
(13:24):
everybody was like bring shorts,it's going to be really hot,
you're going to want to wake upearly and go go hiking, because
once it hits noon you're goingto be sweating.
Because we went in august butlike literally hit the only
patch of just like rain everysingle day.
We were there which, honestly,like it was it like worked, it
was fine.
Jordan (13:42):
But I was like it was not hot, it was cold.
Guys, you told me to bringshorts.
Where's the fucking sun?
Fabienne (13:52):
There's literally no sun.
It's not here, he ain't here,he ain't here, no, okay, so
that's really fun.
Oh sorry, yes, yeah, no, no, no,let's, let's just dive in,
let's give the people what theywant hopefully, I assume I'm
literally so excited because Ilove just talking, gossip and
(14:15):
tea with you, so I'm so excitedfor all this bookish drama,
whether it's bookstagram or likebook drama in general.
I'm literally so freakingexcited for it and I'm so
curious if you've like heard itand like what you've heard, so I
actually wrote down some thingsof that.
Jordan (14:34):
You know what I?
I just like sort of likethought that this episode was
going to be about.
So I wrote down uh wait, I'mgoing to give you three, I guess
, guesses of mine, and then youeither have to say yes or no, or
whatever so.
Fabienne (14:49):
I wrote down I have two things, two things I want to
talk about.
So let's see if either Okay.
Jordan (14:55):
Yeah, so I have one that's actually pretty gross and
for me I saw this first onthreads it's this one Aussie
author who wrote a romance about.
Fabienne (15:08):
That's my number one thing I want to talk about, okay
.
Jordan (15:12):
Okay, so we'll.
Fabienne (15:14):
Yep, okay, sorry, no, continue, continue, we'll circle
back, we'll circle back.
Jordan (15:19):
This is going to be one of those episodes where we're
just like talking back and forthit's fine, it's fine, it's fine
.
So the second one that I haveis about this new rise of, like
christian romances and how dirtyromances are, like you know,
slammed upon in that sense likethere's only clean romances that
people should read oh no, Ihave not heard this, so we'll
(15:41):
definitely have to include thisin the mix.
Okay, so I'm gonna do that as anumber two, I guess clean
romances as opposed to dark,dirty romance Well, not dark
necessarily, but just dirtyromances, because that's how
they phrased it.
And then the third one.
I lied, I only had two.
Fabienne (16:08):
Okay.
Well then I also have a thirdone, but we'll do that one last
because I have questions leadingup to it before I dive into it
from you.
But I think we should talkabout the disgusting one first,
because I think I so.
Do you know anything about it?
Jordan (16:27):
The only thing that I do know well, okay, very vaguely,
and the things that I do know isare like very shallow, like
superficially, like superficialstuff.
So, like I said before, I sawthis first on threads and I
actually I have no clue who Isaw posting about it.
I think it was no.
(16:47):
I have no clue who I sawposting about it.
I think it was no.
I have no no idea who she is,because I see like people's
faces and like their, theirInstagram handles and like their
tags.
I'm like, oh yeah, I know her,but then I want to talk about
that.
I'm like poof gone.
I have no clue who these peopleare but anyways, I saw this on
Threads first and then I sawsomeone actually like hyping up
this book and what first?
First things.
No, listen, first things first.
So this was in the morning whenI saw this.
(17:08):
Yeah, this was me getting up at6 15 before daylight savings
time, so it was, you know,bright and early, but then, just
you know, the birds weresinging and chirping.
But it all went really fastdownhill from there because I
saw people are glorifyingpedophile stories.
I'm like, wait, what 6, 15,what 615, guys, what's happening
?
What's happening?
What's going on?
What is happening?
Oliver suddenly just likestopped singing their song.
Fabienne (17:31):
Okay, you hold on, let me do like a rundown and then
we'll go into, like what you saw.
Okay, so anybody that knows theauthor, tori Woods, that is who
we're talking about and it'sher story, daddy's Little Toy.
And it is.
I don't know if you've seenthis cover.
(17:52):
It is pink with baby blocksspelling out Daddy's Little Toy
Baby blocks.
Literally that alone, I think,screams disgusting in my mind.
Literally that alone, I think,screams disgusting in my mind.
Tori Woods is an Aussie authorbut it's a pen name for Lauren
Ashley, I believe, which is apen name, for her legal name is
(18:14):
like Lauren something, something.
But she basically wrote thisstory and I think what she was
trying to do was in the kinkcommunity there's like a daddy
in a little situation, sobasically it's, but it's there's
usually no sex with it, like indaddy little kinks.
(18:37):
It's supposed to be similar toa dom sub kind of relationship
where there's no like actualpain.
That I believe.
I haven't looked too deep intothis, but I know somewhat of it,
but it's basically like a daddytaking care of a little, but
everybody's of legal age consent, like everybody's supposed to
be above age yes, yes, yes.
(19:01):
And it's, but it tends to belike I don't even think there
needs to be like an age gap oranything.
I think it just needs to be.
There's like someone that wantsto take care of somebody else
in any aspect of like they get.
Like you think of like some,like someone taking care of
someone when they're sick, likethink of like yeah, I saw people
(19:26):
saying like she did not do anyresearch into this kink
community of like daddy little,and I think there's like a
there's a better terminology forthat.
so I'm so sorry because I'mprobably fucking that up royally
and oh, you can't be fucking upany worse than this Tory person
, so you're doing really good,but like basically now I've
never put my eyes on this textfile, I've never seen it with my
eyes, but from what I read isbasically the story starts off
(19:48):
with this girl at the age ofthree years old and this older
man is fantasizing about beingwith this three-year-old
Three-year-old, not like she'sthree, and he's like a guardian.
And then maybe she grows up andthen she's like 20 and now he
like sees her as somebody helike wants to be with, which in
that way I still think is gross.
(20:09):
But like I'm trying, I'm notyucking anyone's yum if that's
like what they want, but likethe fact that she's very yum.
But the fact that he's threeyears old and he's like
fantasizing about her, thenapparently disgusting.
But then apparently people likegetting the arcs, like people
(20:33):
reached out to her and were likehey, this is like actually kind
of gross, like maybe youshouldn't publish this and she
like wrote them off.
She was like no, you just don'tget the story.
Like no, like, no, like I'mgoing to still publish it.
That's why it was up, that'swhy it got published.
But I don't know if you notice,there were people.
There were people that arcedthis book, that gave it three,
(20:55):
four and five stars and werelike this was a great story, I
love this story.
Like, oh my God, this wasamazing.
And then there were the people,there were some people that
gave it three stars, that werelike, um, it was a little
disturbing at some parts, butlike, I guess, overall I enjoyed
this a little.
But I and then I don't know ifyou saw people's comments, like
(21:16):
on those like reviews, that werelike anybody that gave this
above one star should go to jail, which leads to my next point.
The author was arrested for thecontents of this book.
Yes, she was arrested in herhome, like for like pedophilia
content in her home.
But if you think about it, likepeople that have, like children
(21:40):
, pornography on their computersgo to jail.
So like this is the samefucking thing.
Like I never I'm not, that isso true.
But I I'm not trying to, I'mnot trying to say cause I don't
think us reading romance is thesame thing as like watching porn
.
Like I do think there's more toit, but but in this aspect,
(22:01):
like it's the same thing in mymind, it's the same thing In my
mind, it's the same thing.
And I'm like, thank fucking Godthe author was arrested.
Like how can you think it'sokay to write something like
that?
But I don't know if you'venoticed, but like now the book
has taken, it's like beenremoved everywhere.
Jordan (22:18):
Like you can't find it on Amazon.
I don't see it anymore.
You don't find it on Goodreads.
Like there was this entirediscourse thing on like threads,
like I said before, but Ihaven't like seen it pop up and
in like I don't know like twoweeks time, because we talked
about this like two weeks ago,where you said, hey, we can
discuss like book drama on the,on the podcast.
I'm like, oh sure, I have noclue what that was about.
Fabienne (22:35):
And then, literally like two days after, I saw that
thing on my threads account andI'm like, oh, I know I'm so glad
we didn't talk about it becausewe would have talked about it,
but literally, literally, it wasthat that day that I saw
something, that she got arrested, so I wouldn't even have been
able to mention that she gotarrested and at that time.
(22:56):
So I'm glad we waited, becauseI'm like, but still like, thank
fucking God, but I don't know ifyou know.
So like Amazon's like reallyweird and when you publish a
paperback it's so hard to get ittaken down.
Like Amazon doesn't takeanything down.
So like you'll see a lot ofout-of-print stuff from authors
because, like they have removedthe book but Amazon still has
(23:18):
yet to take it down.
Literally no trace of this.
I think they're even trying.
Like no trace of this book.
Like it's hard to search theauthor.
I think you can still find theauthor and her two other books,
like Tori Woods.
Anyways, I don't know aboutLauren Ashley, like I don't know
if like, because I think buthonestly, Jory, that name
(23:42):
actually does sound familiar.
Jordan (23:43):
I thought for a hot second.
Like Lauren, Ashley like whowrote the F1 series and I was
like lauren.
Sure, like who wrote the f1series and I was.
I was really scared for asecond.
But she is not like she was.
She wasn't an australian.
Are you gonna do live?
Fabienne (23:50):
research.
Right now I am.
I'm looking up lauren ashley,but I feel like that's such a
common name.
Oh nope, she's here.
She's here, but show meeverything show me but it's like
okay, so there's everything Iam part one broken, and then
everything I am part twocrossroads, then pieces of us.
But like, this is the authorand I don't know how to make her
(24:14):
bigger on, I can't like laurenashley.
Well, it's a little bit bigger.
Jordan (24:20):
This is like her honestly so I don't know I'm
generally not even saying thisjust because of this episode,
but she really has like thatcreepy look about her.
Look at those eyes.
Fabienne (24:33):
They're like you know, void you should have got the
good thing you got arrested.
But like I, just like, I can'tbelieve that.
It's like I have literalgoosebumps, like the fact that
you would write something likethat, and then like I like, I'm
(24:53):
sorry, but like what the fuck iswrong in your head to think
it's okay to write somethinglike that?
Jordan (25:00):
well, that's what I said .
I think they generally did notthink that anything was wrong.
Fabienne (25:05):
I mean, oh wait, I I have to process this though so I
don't know, like what you saw,I I feel like I needed to give
the backstory now, like no, no,we can go into.
Jordan (25:18):
I feel like you are like so much more like present still
, like in the bookstagramcommunity.
Um I, I have to say I am moreactive but I don't really mingle
in as much drama, not to saythat you do only like solely
mingle within this dramadramatic.
You know situations but you dosee more on it than I do, also
because maybe I also becamemaybe off the location maybe,
(25:41):
but I also feel like I want thedrama.
Fabienne (25:44):
So like I see, like I'm like you want those, I love
it like I saw.
I like saw someone posting aboutit, but like in a very vague
aspect and I didn't know likewhat they were talking about.
So then I was like, oh, who isthis tori woods?
And so I saw it a while ago,like a couple weeks ago, but
like nothing really came of ityet, because they were just the
person was like I think sheshould have done more research
(26:06):
in the kink community, like shedidn't really get into like the
specifics.
And then, because you watchthat one reel, like more popped
up about it, and then it waslike, oh, then I was like, oh,
like this guy fantasized beingwith a, like a younger person,
and then I was like, oh, hefantas, he fantasized with being
with a three-year-old, and Iwas like what?
(26:26):
And then I was like, oh, shegot arrested.
And I was like, oh, thank God.
And then it was just like allthese things that I kept like
seeing, but probably because Iwas watching them.
So then it was like coming tome the algorithm.
I wasn't like I wasn't likesearching this stuff.
Searching this stuff, well, Idid search the author.
(26:47):
So I saw the book before amazontook it down and like thank
goodness, overall it had liketwo stars or like one and a half
, but still like the fact that Isaw some reviews like I saw
someone give it five five stars.
Jordan (26:57):
Okay question then for you do you think that that was
for a person herself, but thenjust like in disguise, or was it
someone who was bribed?
That is a good question.
I'm gonna give you like adollar, like amazon gift card,
if you give this book 50, like50 five stars.
You know I can see people beinglike you know, spineless, like
(27:18):
that and just taking that,taking that offer disgusting,
yeah, honestly, is a kink.
Is it like wait, I'm actuallycurious now because is it the
same?
Then it's like a dom substitutesituation, like with the daddy,
I think it's like.
Fabienne (27:35):
I think it's like similar, but I think it's more
so like you're.
You want to like take care of.
So there's no like, yeah, isn'tthat?
Jordan (27:43):
also doesn't that like also encapsulates, like the
entire dynamic between adominant sub?
Fabienne (27:50):
I mean, yes, but I think the dominant sub too can
be more about like pain.
This is like I don't think pain.
I haven't done so much research, but dom sub could be like more
like ordering you around, like,and I think that can be like
more, yeah, where I think like adaddy little part of the
package I think that is in theaspect of like aftercare, I feel
(28:14):
like, but like daddy little ismore like.
I think of like when you'resick and you take care of
somebody, like that.
Jordan (28:21):
I think okay, but I have , I haven't done that much
research, so maybe it really issimilar to dom sub but and
there's something else, but I soI don't know and if we look at
it fictionally, like when weread um deep end, for example,
where lucas was a dom and then,um, what's her name bandy,
(28:43):
what's his sub, he kind of likesubconsciously or no, yeah,
subconsciously I took care ofher as well.
I feel like that made it's likethe same type of dynamic.
Then yeah, anyways, I'm notreally I don't know.
I I don't really know muchabout kinks, I have to admit,
and for some reason, yeah, thatway, I mean, I know about them
(29:04):
you know how you phrase so Idon't
Fabienne (29:06):
want to yuck on anybody's yeah, like I don't, I
don't know enough to like fullygive any actual like, like
information on it likedefinitely, just look it up it's
actually hilarious that she gotarrested.
Jordan (29:25):
Sorry, I can't thank god the fact that I just actually,
like some people, really thinkthat they can get away with that
shit like it's on your computer.
You know, people watch thatshit and it's like what?
Fabienne (29:38):
yeah, yeah, let's go to the next one.
Okay, what was this?
Jordan (29:44):
this is not as deep as this, like as the tori story.
The tori story not toy story,ironically, because you know the
tori story, um, but I I don'tknow like there has been this
entire thing on book instagramfor the past year, two years
almost, where people say youdon't have to shit on other
(30:06):
readers for what they prefer intheir books.
Now, this is obviously like,you know, beside the kink and
beside, you know, whatever youknow, yeah, the poor discussion,
so to say, um, but it's morelike, if you like dark romance
romance, if you like sportsromance, you like sports romance
.
If you like smut in your bookswithout the plot, then you like
smut without the plot.
That's completely fine, you doyou?
(30:26):
You know, um, people shouldlike stay in their lanes, but
then some people feel the needor they feel obligated to, you
know, change lanes and be likehey, you, this now in extension
of source, um, I have seendiscourse on threads where
people have started doing thisagain, and I haven't seen this
(30:49):
on bookstagram, ironically, butI have seen this then on book
threads is what it is now.
I mean, you know about like um,what was um book twitter was a
thing back in a day.
It's now x, but it's twitter.
When it still was twitter, wehad like book twitter and we
have book threads now, butpeople start coming at readers
(31:10):
um, for their preferences inbooks and, um, obviously there's
books where there's no smart orlike closed door romances.
I think people, some peoplelike call it or it's like it's
the officially, like theofficial term, but it's really
marketed.
And Bryn Weaver actually cameinto play here and she is pretty
vicious on book threads.
It's hilarious.
(31:33):
She really comes like also likeIvy Ophelia, you know, from the
Poisoner.
They are like very vocal, likeyou know very active and like
proactive and it's fantastic tosee.
So if someone says somethingabout like people who read SMUD,
they're like you know, below,they're like you know, like how
(31:56):
do you say that?
Like scum of the earth, notnecessarily those words, but
basically they don't, they don'tknow any better.
They're because they they readsmut.
Um, I'm really phrasing thispoorly, by the way, anyways.
But then I feel velia comes inand brin weaver, they, I feel
like they're just like you knowthey.
(32:17):
They come to like people'srescues on book threads and
they're like, yeah, but whatabout if you just don't come
into people's dms and say thatthey should not read this?
What about what?
What then?
But people have basically, likeyou know, they're just shitting
on people's um preferences.
To read smut is what it comesdown to.
It's very poorly articulated umthat's like so mean yeah I know,
(32:43):
but it's really funny to seelike the comebacks from like
brie, from like brin and um alsoactually kv rose sometimes pops
in, which is interesting to seeI don't have threads, but now
I'm wondering if I should get it.
Fabienne (32:58):
But I've heard so many people talk about how toxic
threads is and how negative thisspace is yeah, but I think it's
like things like this thatpeople like talk about, like all
it is is like drama and thingslike that, and then jor honestly
, then everything is toxicnowadays also, I feel like
(33:18):
social media.
Jordan (33:20):
There are obviously like unwritten rules and like
guidelines that people shouldlike stick to, that people
should like adhere to, to likekeep the space positive.
But people are animals onsocial platforms Like you can
hide so easily behind a screen,like your text, like your
(33:50):
textual um um sort yeah, likeyeah.
So you can hide so easily and Ifeel that gives like some
people like the extra motivationor courage.
However, you want to put it umto excessively, like shit and
other people um unnecessarily,and you know, yes, it's toxic,
but also, yes, you can choose ina very healthy manner, not to.
You know, choose not to engagein that type of discourse.
(34:12):
You can choose to look theother way.
You can choose to.
You know, remove those peoplefrom your spheres.
You can.
They can choose to walk theother way.
But everything on social mediaplatforms, you know, whatever
you choose youtube, um x threadsum tiktok, instagram people are
gonna be always mean um, but soare people like in daily life.
(34:35):
And then, if you, if you doencounter like people in like
the actual life, day-to-day life, you also literally walk away,
like physically.
So people have like the powerin their own hands in that sense
, like you can literally choosenot to you know remark on other
people's like mean comments.
You can just like.
You know what.
I'm just not today I'm going toblock this person.
(34:57):
I am going to you know and alsolike with Instagram too, you can
look up, like the thing you canchoose, basically your for you
page.
The more you look for certainthings, the more you look for
like positivity, the more itcomes back, literally on threads
what goes around comes around.
So if you look only for youknow, I don't know romance books
(35:20):
, or if you but then obviouslylike the positive side of it all
, um, I don't know, uh,microphones, for example, first
thing that I see here, then youonly like the only thing that
you see on threads or book orlike instagram is like
microphones.
So it you know, you can reallyreally choose yourself what you
um what to see, what to read andum what you want to engage in
(35:43):
or like with yeah, that's a verygood point.
Fabienne (35:47):
So those were my two cents.
Jordan (35:49):
The power is in your hands that was a really good one
, yeah yeah, but it is, it is,it is, but it is, it is.
Fabienne (36:00):
Um, okay, can I go into my last piece of drama then
?
Jordan (36:04):
only last piece.
Fabienne (36:05):
Yes, of course yeah, this is the last one.
Okay, I first.
I have to start it with aquestion.
Oh, like for you specifically,what are your thoughts on
posting a negative review likeon social media?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Jordan (36:24):
no right or wrong answer , please okay, can I, before I
actually give you an answer, canI?
Can I ask you something else aswell?
Oh, okay, just just just sothat I have my frame, like my
framework of how, of how I can'tanswer your question.
Yes, so do.
(36:45):
Do we?
Do we see and like a negativereview as like I hated this book
because of x, y and z?
Or do we see a negative reviewas an honest review in which is
just like phrase morepolitically correct, as I did
not enjoy this book as much as Ithought I would, or I thought I
would.
(37:05):
I had high hopes for this book,but it didn't come to fruition
because of xyz, would you stillsay the last one is a negative
one.
Fabienne (37:15):
I.
Jordan (37:16):
I think you could say like your negative review could
be whatever you wanted yournegative review to be of a book
okay, then, technically I am allhere for negative reviews on
social media are yeah, however,important footnote, if it's uh,
okay, just for the sake ofexample, yeah say I say I read
(37:41):
enigma, you know, by runix, likein april, whenever we do get
like our hands on it and I'mgoing to be like, oh, I fucking
hated this book.
For just example, likehypothetically.
Fabienne (37:52):
Hypothetically.
Jordan (37:54):
Runix follows me, I follow her.
I would not put that on socialmedia.
I would maybe only, like youknow, post about it just to show
my followers that I have readthe book and just like for
content, because you know Runix,great name, as in like large,
big name, you know yes.
So no, I would just be mean.
Fabienne (38:34):
Yeah, because she thought I am here.
Jordan (38:36):
Yes, but I am here.
But I am here for the negativereviews in the broad sense.
I never tag an author, forexample.
Fabienne (38:46):
Yes, no Like tagging authors, no, no.
Hashtags, no, no.
And I can see where you'recoming from, with the authors
following you, but so have youseen anything about this Larry
Reads drama.
Larry Reads no, I can't saythat I have so she's like pretty
(39:07):
big on TikTok and she has aYouTube page and she and her
name is Larry.
Yeah, it's like Larissa, buther nickname's Larry, oh not bad
um.
But she got the arc for this newRenaena kent book and
apparently she hated it.
So she posted a negative reviewon tiktok.
(39:29):
But it was her talking about itand she's like this book gave
nothing.
Like I expected it to besomething different and it gave
nothing.
I dnf'd it, all these thingsand basically she posted it.
Then she made a like funnytiktok and apparently she did
(39:51):
say she said that it was a joke.
She said it was a joke, but Idon't, like I'm I think it's a
joke.
I've been following larry for awhile but I understand how
people could blow it out ofproportion.
But she did a tiktok because Iguess they were mutuals on
TikTok.
So Rina followed her and shefollowed Rina.
But reena kent unfollowed herafter this negative review.
(40:15):
So she did a funny video oflike being like with a gracie
abrams song being I miss um, I'msorry, I miss you, or I miss
you, I'm sorry, or whatever, andtalking about how, like they go
from mutuals to like following,so like they used to be friends
and then like now it just showsas Larry following her.
(40:37):
So she like unfollows her andso she posts this like review
and she meant it as a joke Likethis, like funny video, because
you post one negative reviewwhen before she was like raving
about her like one series God ofMalice, god of Fury, like those
books, like she loves thatseries with like her whole heart
.
So I think that's like why umreena kent started following her
(41:01):
, so she posts this thing.
It goes crazy.
There's the people that sidewith larry being like why the
fuck would reena kent unfollowher, like how dare you?
Like she's given you so muchpublicity with your series.
And then there's the otherseries, the other book, people
that are like you shouldn't haveposted it in negative review,
(41:24):
like that's not what socialmedia is for.
That's like what review pagesare for.
Is this like negative review?
And it literally blows out ofproportion to the point that
Larry had to do another videobeing like hey guys, like I
didn't take offense to Rena Kentunfollowing me.
I think you can unfollow,follow and unfollow people at
any time.
(41:44):
There's no right or wrongreason.
I just did this.
I thought it was a joke, butclearly it was not taken as a
joke and I'm sorry for that.
But please do not go after RenaKent, but also don't come out
after me either.
Like so people were likeblowing up her spot.
But now I've seen a lot ofpeople mention, like, how social
(42:05):
media is like not meant forreviews and not meant for
negative reviews, which Ipersonally don't agree with that
, because there's people Ifollow and I follow for reviews
Like.
So if you're going to review abook, like if I see you're
reading it, I want your reviewof it, and I feel like that's
where, like, people don'tunderstand.
(42:26):
Like the like Larry's page isabout reviewing books.
Like she has a booktube whereshe literally will tell you if
she liked a book or not.
Like she can't, what is shegoing to a book or not?
Like she can't, what is shegonna?
It's not like a, she's not justlike a recommendation, like
person.
So she's not gonna just tellyou all the books she like loves
.
She's gonna tell you the onesthat she absolutely hated too,
whether they're like ones shelike.
(42:49):
Like you know what I mean.
But I think, like I do seewhere you're saying too, about
like if the author follows youyou.
So Rena Kent did follow her,but I feel like she is also a
reviewer, so you would thinkthat these authors know that
like they start, like peoplestart, as I feel like I mean you
(43:10):
kind of know that like a lot ofthese like bigger in, like book
people can I jump in before Ilose this train of thought?
Jordan (43:18):
yes, so I also feel, like now with um, how the
bookstagram community works likeauthors follow readers, readers
follow authors.
Obviously, um, but then also Ihave this feeling where a very
large majority of readers whoare mutuals with authors, they
(43:42):
have this parasocial type ofrelationship with them, so they
feel one way about and towardthese authors, but the authors
are just like, okay, well, Ilike their prose, they support
my writings, they support mywork.
I'm just going to follow themback and maybe in those people's
minds they see that, oh, we'refriends.
(44:03):
Now we are friends, we have arelationship, we are friends.
So I cannot tell, I cannot saybad stuff about my friends.
So some people who then postnegative reviews say something
like slightly negative aboutthese authors, about their works
.
Then the people who do havethis, you know, who have this
(44:26):
grand like grandeur type ofthinking where they're like oh,
we're friends.
They come to these other peopleand be like, hey, you can't say
that, because bookstagram isnot meant for this.
You can't be mean towards X, yand Z because of X, y and Z.
Do you slightly see where I'mcoming?
Yeah, I do, I do, and honestlyalso in their defense.
(44:47):
It comes from a point, it comesfrom, like you know, like a
point of, I guess.
I guess admiration comes from,like you know, like, like, like
from love, in a way that theywant to protect the author,
which I can only admire to acertain point, but also
sometimes I'm like this is goinga little bit too far.
Everyone can fucking fuckingpost on their social media
(45:09):
whatever they want to becauseit's an expression of their
creativity whether it's you know, it's people's opinions.
If you can't pose reviews,because if that becomes too
serious, if it's not only justpositive and lovely, then also,
why do news channels have socialmedia?
Why do, uh?
(45:29):
Why do politicians have socialmedia?
Why, you know, why does thewhite house have the social
media?
Yeah, no, that's true.
If you don't want, if you don'twant sorry, I have to.
I have to finish this.
If you don't want, if you don'twant reality on your social
media, then don't be on fuckingsocial media.
(45:49):
Go out on the streets put awayyour phone, touch some fucking
grass and play in the water.
Fabienne (45:58):
You know, go play with your little brothers and
sisters and with a dog throw aball sometime.
I totally agree.
I think you should be able topost whatever you want, which,
in the same vein, is like if anauthor wants to unfollow you,
then like that is within theirright.
Just like, exactly, I followand unfollow people all the
fucking time and I'm like, butit's because their content
doesn't align with me.
(46:19):
Like remember how, like?
I mean, we started ourbookstagram pages and we were
all about dark romance, like allabout it, and then, like at the
end of 2023, we were like, well, can't do this anymore.
We like, honestly, we both likemade a full like 180 that I
unfollowed so many dark romancelike bookstagrammers because I
(46:40):
was like, if I wasn't friendswith you or if you didn't post
about other things, like Ididn't want to see your content
anymore.
So I did like a mass likeunfollow thing, exactly, and I'm
like and and maybe people tookoffense to that, because I know
some people I think that didstill follow and content on my
comment on my stuff stop.
(47:03):
So I think they like noticedthat.
But I was also like I'm notgonna apologize for like not
being, like not wanting to readdark romance and then not
wanting to see it so, but likeif we were still friends and you
were still like a dark romancereader, like that's in itself,
that was like completelydifferent.
But I feel like, which is alsoto say like if you're a dark
(47:24):
romance reader, it's like,please still post about that.
But just because I don't wantto see it doesn't mean that I
like don't have it within myright to unfollow.
So I feel like's, I still like,I like the negative reviews,
like, and I want people to feelthat they can post these
negative reviews because I don't.
Jordan (47:42):
I feel like, if I think it's like a balance is to scale
too.
Like, yeah, if a book is reallygreat, then of course there's
more like positive and lovingreviews.
Fabienne (47:53):
But there's also going to be people out there who
didn't love it, and they havejust as much as right to post
about their perspective on astory as the people who loved it
Exactly Like everybody hastheir right to like, post about
a book and like, and maybe itstarts this like bigger
conversation and because I'mthinking too like I thought
there's other people I follow,like, thinking of Beach Read and
(48:15):
Bubbly.
Like she posts literally everysingle book she reads.
She never like tags the author,but she's always posting about
the book she has read and it'sher review, because that's like
literally what her page is.
Everybody reads the book she'sreading, so then they can join
her story where she talks aboutit afterwards.
So it's like you like, but youalso know what you're getting.
(48:35):
So, like maybe you're somebodythat doesn't want like people
following people that do reviews, then don't follow them.
You have the right to unfollow,but I do not think you have the
right to tell people thatnegative reviews don't belong on
social media.
I don't think you have theright to say that negative
reviews only belong on reviewplatforms, which I agree Like.
(48:57):
I think reviews belong on thosereview platforms, but I've had
authors step into the reviewspace of mine and I've given
their book two stars and thenthey make a joke out of it and
make me feel uncomfortable.
So it works both fucking ways.
So it's like, like I, like yousay that negative reviews only
(49:18):
belong on review spaces, butlike I've had, I've done it and
I've I've given those negativereviews and then the authors
come into that space.
So, and I will talk about thatuntil I'm blue in the
motherfucking face, because Ifeel like there is no like.
Jordan (49:34):
There is no like safe space I mean, I'm not religious,
but amen, sister like.
Fabienne (49:43):
I think you should be able to post whatever the fuck
you want, because I like, in thesense of like the larry thing
and I do feel bad for her likeand and maybe she could have, I
don't know.
I think she did what she wantedand I think that is all you can
ask for and she took no offenseto the author unfollowing her
and I think that's the bestcourse of action.
(50:04):
I think if she was truly upsetthat the author unfollowed her,
that would be somethingdifferent.
But I follow Larry for herreviews I like.
So it's like if she were tojust stop posting reviews, I
would unfollow her, becausethat's actually had she had.
Jordan (50:22):
She posted like a negative review before this.
Fabienne (50:25):
Reena can't fiasco oh, all the time she posts negative
reviews all the time then whyis this now any different than,
I think, the ones before?
because it's reena no, I thinkwhat it is is because then she
made that video of reenaunfollowing her.
Even though she meant it as ajoke, people took it too far.
So I don't think it was thenegative review per se, because
(50:47):
there were the people, somepeople that we follow I saw in
the comments being like reena,reena k.
How could you unfollow her?
She's given you so muchpublicity on your other series.
I think you're doing adisservice to Larry for
unfollowing her and I'm likegirl my one name in Jersey is
Jordan.
Jordan (51:06):
Who are these people?
I'll tell you after.
Fabienne (51:10):
I'm not blowing up her spot on here, but I will show
you afterwards because I waslike jeez it.
I was like I figured you wouldbe the one person that wouldn't
have said this stuff but like so.
But then apparently, like these, some of larry's followers were
going after reena kent forunfollowing her.
So this like video that was.
But then there was the peopleon the other side that that
believe that review negativereviews shouldn't be on social
(51:32):
media.
They're like you have, youcan't be upset for the author
unfollowing you because they'reprotecting their peace, which I
agree, they are protecting theirpeace.
But Larry wasn't upset.
Like she made this.
It was like a joke of the videobut people took it too far,
like both sides took it like asnot a joke and she had to come
back in another video and belike guys, that was a joke,
(51:55):
please do not go after Rena Kentand also please don't come
after me.
Like this was a joke and I'msorry it did not land as a joke.
So I think that's like wherethis all stems from.
But like people are like peopleare like blowing it up.
I think it's finally like dyingdown.
But like people blew it up thispast week that like I went into
(52:18):
my local bookstore over theweekend and the girl behind the
counter was talking about it andI was like, are you talking
about Larry Reed's?
And she's like, yes and I, butlike we agreed, she was like I
was like we were going back andforth about it and um, in the
sense of like talking about likewhat we knew and stuff, and
she's like, yeah, clearly it wasa joke.
And I was like, exactly, and Iwas like these people coming
(52:39):
into her comments like sayinglike how could Rena Kent
unfollow her?
Like she's done so.
She's done so much publicityfor her books, like she's
brought her so many new readers.
And I was like these peoplecoming into Larry's comment
Larry doesn't know who the fuckthey are.
They're like treating her asthey're like her best friend.
And I was like Larry has like600,000 followers on TikTok.
(53:03):
She doesn't know who youfucking are, so you're having
her back with Rena Kent andyou're going after Rena Kent for
somebody that doesn't even knowyou fucking exist.
Jordan (53:16):
Honestly, that's just really fucking satire parasocial
relationship.
Everybody.
Some people really make no,honestly, it's the same.
Yeah, I can say this.
It's the same thing like withthis e-person.
You know who we interviewedlike way, way back back,
remember.
(53:36):
Thank God it doesn't existanymore, honestly, but it's the
same thing, like people arehyping him up and it's like oh
no, but he knows me, I'm hisfriend, I'm like honey.
Fabienne (53:49):
He doesn't know who you are.
He doesn't know the fuck youare.
You are a little guy.
Jordan (53:55):
Honestly, but you go pay that Patreon level honey, that
one patron tier, you know, $50 amonth honey.
You do you, but generallypeople are really sad sometimes.
We are not those people, though, but some people are.
Fabienne (54:08):
I think people just don't they like.
I think you see how I don'tknow if it's like dynamic,
especially with TikTok, and yousee these like talking videos
and stuff like I, I lovewatching videos.
Yeah, yeah, like TikTok.
It's like you just see themtalking to a camera.
So you see, you see themtalking.
Yeah, so it's like I like Ilove Whitney Simmons and I love
(54:32):
her get ready with me like, likegoing to the gym and stuff that
I can like.
Not that, I think, grantedthough, I did post about her new
, her new like launch for likeGymshark, so I bought her new
like Of course you did.
I did.
Yeah, Adapt collection thebrown, like the deep brown, and
(54:54):
it's so pretty, and I tagged herin it and she commented on it.
Jordan (54:59):
I was like she knows who I am.
But then there you go.
Fabienne (55:05):
There you go, no, exactly.
And then I think people getlike misconstrued because she's
like, like, because they commentand I'm like, she commented,
she knows who I am, but like,then they're like.
Then they go after peoplebecause they like, but like,
yeah, yeah, it's insane, it'sactually insane it is really
(55:29):
insane.
Jordan (55:30):
You know.
You know what this is.
This is actually the mind of afucking 14 to 15 year old.
That's when you do that stuff.
But if you're just like our ageor like you know about the age
of 25, you gotta be reasonableman, be more mature.
Fabienne (55:44):
Gotta be reasonable.
Jordan (55:45):
No, I mean I say it as a joke, but I mean it generally
People above the age of 25 thesedays, they don't know how to do
life, they don't they don't.
They don't know how to do life,they don't.
I mean, it's just some people.
Some people know how to do life.
Apparently this tori person,she knows how to do life.
Fabienne (56:01):
She's a person now, or arrested but I think it just
goes to show like people can,like, like people can.
One post can mean differentthings to different people.
So you take this video thatlarry did that's supposed to be
a joke, which I thought of it asa joke.
Like I watch her videos.
I saw the negative review.
I see this video of like herunfollowing her.
(56:25):
I laugh and then but otherpeople either go after Rena Kent
or other people come after herfor like not be like getting
upset that the author wants toprotect their piece Like I think
it's just so interesting thatpeople's minds I almost like
wonder if it stems from like aninsecurity of like where you are
(56:48):
and like how you view things.
That is like, oh, that's whyyou took this post in the
direction you took it in.
I might be getting too deep.
No, I might be going like toodeep here.
Jordan (57:09):
So like maybe not no, Deep dive into the bookstagram
gossip.
I kind of love it, though thiswas literally like your last one
.
You don't have anything morefor me, no, but we can't.
Fabienne (57:26):
We can't talk, we can't label every episode deep
dive.
Jordan (57:32):
Yes, we can, literally every episode.
You just said the power is inthe palm of our own hands,
jordan yes, we can.
Literally, the power is in thepalm of our own hands, jordan
yes, we can oh, it looks likeI'm holding my head.
Fabienne (57:42):
Oh yeah, but that's all I had for, like the bookish
drama I think there was actuallymore than enough for one
episode.
I think so too, I think we can.
Jordan (57:56):
Okay, yeah just.
Fabienne (57:59):
Yeah, so hopefully you enjoyed this bookish drama.
I love talking, I lovegossiping, I love drama.
Give me all the drama.
Jordan (58:08):
You know what would be better, though, for next time,
when we actually come togetheragain and then we have the same
type of conversation.
But I bring the truffle friesand you bring the Prosecco.
Fabienne (58:18):
Yes, yeah and then we just call it tea time, but then
without tea.
Tea, but no tea but then Istill need to bring the truffle
fries and you still need tobring the Prosecco, so that way
we can both be.
We'll both bring it twoportions, two portions each need
to bring the Prosecco.
Jordan (58:34):
So that way we can both be.
We'll both bring it.
We'll both bring it.
Yeah, yep, two portions we'resharing.
Two portions each sharing?
I don't think so.
No, just leave the bottle.
Fabienne (58:46):
Thank you so much for listening and please don't
forget to rate and reviewwherever you can find us.
welcome to the bookish hour with
Fabienne (00:12):
I want to preface have a sore throat so I am
swallowing chewing.
That that's.
It's okay.
It just comes with, like thistime of year, you know the
transition type of weather.
Oh, so you wouldn't feel likesick?
No, no, no, no, definitely not.
I can feel it coming, I see itlike on far down on the horizon,
(00:33):
but I'm like sucking on one ofthose throat pastels.
So if you hear that, likeclicking or clanking, like you
know, in my mouth, like with myteeth, I'm so sorry, just ignore
it.
Just ignore it.
Um, but as I was saying, andactually you were saying too, um
, it is now light out.
Finally.
Um, the Netherlands also wentinto daylight savings time, and
(00:56):
I could not be happier.
That definitely helped.
I honestly I love daylightsavings saving, especially when
we go forward.
I just I love the days feelinglonger even though it might be
shorter, like in the morning, soit like might the sun might not
come out until later, but Ijust love having it light out
(01:17):
for longer, like at night, inthe afternoon, so it makes me so
happy.
Jordan (01:24):
I do have to get used to the fact that it is a little
bit darker again now in themornings because technically
it's like an hour, you know,like in my head still, instead
of like saying it's now like um20 past eight for me.
Then of course it's still liketechnically 20 past seven in my
(01:44):
head, but that works in themorning as well.
So instead of like it being 615 and my alarm goes off, it's
actually 5 15.
So I do struggle with that.
But you know, in the afternoonit's all worth it.
It's all worth it because it'sa light out when I go back home
from work and I'm so happy it'sall worth it in the end honestly
, I'm no better than just like ahouseplant.
(02:06):
All I need is a bit of sunlightand I'm good to go yep, give me
some water, some sunlight andfeed me sometimes, and you know
I'm a happy girl, golden, golden, golden.
Okay, fab, tell me somethinggood that happened to you this
week I actually have quite a fewthings that I could tell you
about right now, but I'm goingto save it for maybe multiple
(02:29):
episodes, just to know.
We'll see.
I like it, I like it.
But the first good thing isthat I booked a trip to London
with my mom.
Fabienne (02:39):
Oh my gosh, that's so exciting.
Jordan (02:42):
I know, and it's partially like for it's like in
part for her birthday, but alsoin part for like Mother's Day
and also in part for ourtradition that we, we kind of
like came up with our owntradition that every single year
we want to do something witheach other.
And in the beginning it waslike just have, you know, like a
mom and a daughter, lunch.
And then it was like, okay,we're going to like, I guess,
(03:03):
expand.
It was like, okay, we're gonnalike, um, I guess, expand this,
and then we're gonna have likedinner and drinks.
And then we were like you knowwhat?
What we should just do thisabroad.
So then we started going tolondon, um, barcelona, um, also
oxford, like last year.
But then this year we want togo to london, and I already to
London with her actually, but itwas such a fun time and I don't
(03:28):
know my mom, like in terms oflike aesthetic, she is London,
she's like that classy Englishtype of woman and I don't know,
I just wanted to do that withher.
So we booked a flight and justfor the sake of the podcast
because I have no idea when thisis going to be, you know,
uploaded or it's going to golive, but we're going to go
fairly soon.
(03:48):
We are going to go in threeweeks time from now oh shit,
actually wait.
Fabienne (03:56):
So is that the last wait?
Is that the last weekend ofapril or the second to last
weekend?
It's the second to lastactually.
Jordan (04:03):
It's the second to last, actually, so it's actually
Easter Sunday, oh you guys aregoing over.
Easter, yeah, like Good Friday,I like that, yeah.
So April 18th until or till, Ishould say, monday, the 22nd, so
four whole days.
That's so exciting.
(04:26):
I'm so excited for you.
Do you guys know?
Fabienne (04:30):
where you're going to stay in London.
Jordan (04:33):
Oh, yes, yes, yes, I booked the hotel and it is in
South Kensington.
Okay, I'm not trying to tell asmuch as as I like on here,
because you never know whoyou're running to and people
might you know, just crazypeople out there you know, yeah,
you don't, but you could justleave it at south kensington not
that I even really know wherethat is, but also london it's so
(04:55):
fucking big jordan it doesn'treally matter like it's so huge,
um.
But I kind of went like down umhow do you say that?
Like I I kind of like spiraled,in a sense of I really went
down a rabbit hole.
That's what I want to say.
I went down a rabbit holebecause I was I google maps the
entire part, like the entire, um, the entire area of london.
(05:18):
So I have like all of the pubs,I have all of the bookshops,
all of the cafes and littlecoffee shops, I have all the
parks.
I look like one of those peoplewho are actually like who
actually comes prepared to acity trip, when normally I am
one of those people who follow.
Fabienne (05:34):
But now but it's good because I feel like so you leave
friday and you come back monday, so you only have two full days
there.
So you have to jam those twofull days.
Jordan (05:45):
That's.
That was my reasoning too, andmy mom was like are you sure
that we have enough time thereto do all this?
I'm like I don't care, I'drather have you know too many
things on the list than toolittle because of the entire
like you know, the full two days, like you said that you have
there.
But then, to be fair, we do flyin friday very, very early,
(06:06):
like we have a plane, that'sgood at eight o'clock in the
morning or so.
Yeah, that is good, but it'salso a little bit tiring because
you wake up really early too togo to the airport and then you
have, like you know, the commutefrom the airport, from here in
amsterdam then in london to, youknow, like the hotel, etc, etc.
Fabienne (06:22):
But yeah, fair, but but it like works out because
then you can still use like thewhole afternoon of Friday to
like do things.
But then do you leave earlyMonday, or is it at least later
on Monday later in the afternoon.
Jordan (06:36):
Yeah, later in the afternoon.
Fabienne (06:37):
It's kind of technically what we always try
to like aim for anyways yeah, no, I feel like that's good,
because then, like you have mostof monday too, like you don't
have to leave until like theafternoon.
Jordan (06:51):
So like that's kind of cool the one thing that I do
always like dread and especiallylike when you go out on a sit
or like go for a city trip iswhen you have like one of those
trolleys, like those little youknow backpacks on like wheelers
or wheels, and then you hobbledown like the city you always
like hear the little ricketykoff the wheels, on like the
cobblestones and you're likeanother tourist.
So I actually have come preparedfor this.
(07:13):
I'm only gonna take one ofthose big rucksacks.
It's not gonna look fancy on myoutfit, I know that, but at
least we're carrying stuff andyou don't have to like, you know
like drag your suitcase behindyou, especially on Monday.
You know, like the, I'm surethat the hotel will keep it for
you until the next, like untilthe next hour.
Say, we have to check out at 11and then you know they might
(07:37):
keep your bags until like, say,two o'clock and then, because
you know they have to, I guess,release the stuff because they
have new people come in.
So I don't want to walk aroundthe city with my suitcase on
wheels for another six hours.
A backpack it is.
Fabienne (07:55):
To be completely honest, I figured the hotel
would keep it for a lot longerthan that.
I feel like the hotel wouldkeep it until you leave, until
you go and get it back.
That would be weird.
Jordan (08:06):
I mean, I also don't maybe know, I don't know how it
works, I don't know.
Fabienne (08:11):
Yeah but I know, like here, they would keep it until
you come back for it being likeI need it, like I'll be like
you'll ask you like what time,like you would be like back,
because then that engages onlike where they would put it, so
they should keep your stuff.
Jordan (08:27):
But I also understand not wanting to have to carry
like a suitcase on wheels, likestill three I also don't, you
know, I don't want to risk likebeing um pickpocketed, as the
british say um.
So you know, I, I want tominimize, minimize, minimize,
minimize that risk.
I mean, yeah, minimize, stuffword.
Fabienne (08:52):
Yeah, that one, that one.
Jordan (08:55):
So, yeah, that's my good week.
So you know, I have somethingreally fun to look forward to.
But I see that you are reallyhyped to talk about Georgia Week
.
Fabienne (09:06):
So much it's funny well, no, okay, so I wasn't
going to say this, but I feellike now that you said a trip, I
at the end of April, that's whyI asked you the weekend, so
it's literally the next weekendme and Nick are going to Maine,
we're gonna go like hike acadia,just super exciting.
(09:27):
But like, so, like technicallythis trip would have been for
his birthday in january, butthen, with like luna's passing,
we decided we were actuallytrying to cancel it all together
because he, just he was like Idon't want to do it anymore.
So I, we booked an airbnb, so Iwas like contacting the airbnb,
but it was like super lastminute.
So I was like contacting theAirbnb, but it was like super
last minute.
So I was like I kind of, Itotally understand if you can't
(09:48):
cancel or if we can't cancel.
And she was like, well, we can'tcancel it but we can move it.
And I was like, okay, like what?
And she, um, you can move it upto like three months.
So so, honestly, I was like,can we have April?
And then we took the lastweekend in April and she was
like, yep, that's fine.
(10:09):
And she like switched out thedates for, like us, no extra
charge.
Because as it gets like closerto like the season, it's like
way more expensive, but the factthat she granted the season
doesn't start until like may,really.
So we're still within like thatoff-season time, but the prices
(10:31):
for the airbnb were more forthis last weekend in april, uh,
versus like mid january.
But I'm actually so excitedbecause it's like cold but it's
not going to be like freezing,like it wasn't been in January.
Jordan (10:44):
Just like a nice chilly in the like a nice chill in the
air, but there's still sun.
Fabienne (10:48):
Exactly so.
I'm like so excited for thislike weekend and we're just
going to treat it as his likebirthday weekend.
It's just now in April.
Jordan (10:57):
I mean, time is only.
You know it's a man madeconstruct honey.
If you just pretend that'sJanuary but then with you know
warmer temperatures, it's hisbirthday weekend, but that is so
fun.
I know I'm like so excitedbecause I've never Sorry, no, no
, no, you go, no, no, no, you go, you go.
Fabienne (11:15):
Oh, because I was going to say I've never hiked it
before and I'm like reallyexcited to like hike it.
Granted, we're staying insurrey, I think is the name.
It's like a, it's a tiny cabin,it's one of those like tiny
homes and oh, that's cool, butthe but the thing is is like
because, like bar harbor barharbor, however you pronounce it
(11:36):
is like what is like rightoutside acadia and that is like
the area that I guess likeyou're supposed to stay in, but
that was like really expensiveI'm supposed to yeah.
so I was like I I'm like, fuckit, we're staying in surrey.
Granted, it will be like adrive, but you leave early in
(11:56):
the morning, you just drivethere, then you hike, you're
it's not like we're gonna likehike into, hike into the I don't
know like you hike a hike andthen you drive back Like whether
it's a 20-minute drive or a40-minute drive, isn't that?
Jordan (12:08):
what you always do, like you go to a place to hike and
then you drive back home, orlike to another place.
You don't walk to a place tohike and then walk back.
Fabienne (12:19):
Yeah.
So I'm like who cares if it'sgoing to be like an hour drive,
Like I feel like we're just andsince it's getting closer to the
end season, like more spotswill be open, which is nice,
because because in January, likethere was only select spots you
could like hike.
Jordan (12:43):
And I was just praying for no snow, which there won't
be any snow in April, hopefully,I mean.
I mean, don't they say thatApril has like its own will?
Do you guys have like a sayinglike that, like April does what
it wants, or something?
Fabienne (12:52):
Well, not necessarily.
I mean it rains a lot.
I wouldn't say there's snow,because there's always the April
showers bring May flowers,that's one.
Jordan (13:01):
Yeah.
Fabienne (13:03):
So I think there could be a lot of rain, which is fine
.
We like when we went to wyomingto hike, like those it was like
raining the whole time I know,I remember you say that oh, like
it was one verybright moment though, amongst
the show, amongst our showersbut it's so funny because
(13:24):
everybody was like bring shorts,it's going to be really hot,
you're going to want to wake upearly and go go hiking, because
once it hits noon you're goingto be sweating.
Because we went in august butlike literally hit the only
patch of just like rain everysingle day.
We were there which, honestly,like it was it like worked, it
was fine.
Jordan (13:42):
But I was like it was not hot, it was cold.
Guys, you told me to bringshorts.
Where's the fucking sun?
Fabienne (13:52):
There's literally no sun.
It's not here, he ain't here,he ain't here, no, okay, so
that's really fun.
Oh sorry, yes, yeah, no, no, no,let's, let's just dive in,
let's give the people what theywant hopefully, I assume I'm
literally so excited because Ilove just talking, gossip and
(14:15):
tea with you, so I'm so excitedfor all this bookish drama,
whether it's bookstagram or likebook drama in general.
I'm literally so freakingexcited for it and I'm so
curious if you've like heard itand like what you've heard, so I
actually wrote down some thingsof that.
Jordan (14:34):
You know what I?
I just like sort of likethought that this episode was
going to be about.
So I wrote down uh wait, I'mgoing to give you three, I guess
, guesses of mine, and then youeither have to say yes or no, or
whatever so.
Fabienne (14:49):
I wrote down I have two things, two things I want to
talk about.
So let's see if either Okay.
Jordan (14:55):
Yeah, so I have one that's actually pretty gross and
for me I saw this first onthreads it's this one Aussie
author who wrote a romance about.
Fabienne (15:08):
That's my number one thing I want to talk about, okay
.
Jordan (15:12):
Okay, so we'll.
Fabienne (15:14):
Yep, okay, sorry, no, continue, continue, we'll circle
back, we'll circle back.
Jordan (15:19):
This is going to be one of those episodes where we're
just like talking back and forthit's fine, it's fine, it's fine
.
So the second one that I haveis about this new rise of, like
christian romances and how dirtyromances are, like you know,
slammed upon in that sense likethere's only clean romances that
people should read oh no, Ihave not heard this, so we'll
(15:41):
definitely have to include thisin the mix.
Okay, so I'm gonna do that as anumber two, I guess clean
romances as opposed to dark,dirty romance Well, not dark
necessarily, but just dirtyromances, because that's how
they phrased it.
And then the third one.
I lied, I only had two.
Fabienne (16:08):
Okay.
Well then I also have a thirdone, but we'll do that one last
because I have questions leadingup to it before I dive into it
from you.
But I think we should talkabout the disgusting one first,
because I think I so.
Do you know anything about it?
Jordan (16:27):
The only thing that I do know well, okay, very vaguely,
and the things that I do know isare like very shallow, like
superficially, like superficialstuff.
So, like I said before, I sawthis first on threads and I
actually I have no clue who Isaw posting about it.
I think it was no.
(16:47):
I have no clue who I sawposting about it.
I think it was no.
I have no no idea who she is,because I see like people's
faces and like their, theirInstagram handles and like their
tags.
I'm like, oh yeah, I know her,but then I want to talk about
that.
I'm like poof gone.
I have no clue who these peopleare but anyways, I saw this on
Threads first and then I sawsomeone actually like hyping up
this book and what first?
First things.
No, listen, first things first.
So this was in the morning whenI saw this.
(17:08):
Yeah, this was me getting up at6 15 before daylight savings
time, so it was, you know,bright and early, but then, just
you know, the birds weresinging and chirping.
But it all went really fastdownhill from there because I
saw people are glorifyingpedophile stories.
I'm like, wait, what 6, 15,what 615, guys, what's happening
?
What's happening?
What's going on?
What is happening?
Oliver suddenly just likestopped singing their song.
Fabienne (17:31):
Okay, you hold on, let me do like a rundown and then
we'll go into, like what you saw.
Okay, so anybody that knows theauthor, tori Woods, that is who
we're talking about and it'sher story, daddy's Little Toy.
And it is.
I don't know if you've seenthis cover.
(17:52):
It is pink with baby blocksspelling out Daddy's Little Toy
Baby blocks.
Literally that alone, I think,screams disgusting in my mind.
Literally that alone, I think,screams disgusting in my mind.
Tori Woods is an Aussie authorbut it's a pen name for Lauren
Ashley, I believe, which is apen name, for her legal name is
(18:14):
like Lauren something, something.
But she basically wrote thisstory and I think what she was
trying to do was in the kinkcommunity there's like a daddy
in a little situation, sobasically it's, but it's there's
usually no sex with it, like indaddy little kinks.
(18:37):
It's supposed to be similar toa dom sub kind of relationship
where there's no like actualpain.
That I believe.
I haven't looked too deep intothis, but I know somewhat of it,
but it's basically like a daddytaking care of a little, but
everybody's of legal age consent, like everybody's supposed to
be above age yes, yes, yes.
(19:01):
And it's, but it tends to belike I don't even think there
needs to be like an age gap oranything.
I think it just needs to be.
There's like someone that wantsto take care of somebody else
in any aspect of like they get.
Like you think of like some,like someone taking care of
someone when they're sick, likethink of like yeah, I saw people
(19:26):
saying like she did not do anyresearch into this kink
community of like daddy little,and I think there's like a
there's a better terminology forthat.
so I'm so sorry because I'mprobably fucking that up royally
and oh, you can't be fucking upany worse than this Tory person
, so you're doing really good,but like basically now I've
never put my eyes on this textfile, I've never seen it with my
eyes, but from what I read isbasically the story starts off
(19:48):
with this girl at the age ofthree years old and this older
man is fantasizing about beingwith this three-year-old
Three-year-old, not like she'sthree, and he's like a guardian.
And then maybe she grows up andthen she's like 20 and now he
like sees her as somebody helike wants to be with, which in
that way I still think is gross.
(20:09):
But like I'm trying, I'm notyucking anyone's yum if that's
like what they want, but likethe fact that she's very yum.
But the fact that he's threeyears old and he's like
fantasizing about her, thenapparently disgusting.
But then apparently people likegetting the arcs, like people
(20:33):
reached out to her and were likehey, this is like actually kind
of gross, like maybe youshouldn't publish this and she
like wrote them off.
She was like no, you just don'tget the story.
Like no, like, no, like I'mgoing to still publish it.
That's why it was up, that'swhy it got published.
But I don't know if you notice,there were people.
There were people that arcedthis book, that gave it three,
(20:55):
four and five stars and werelike this was a great story, I
love this story.
Like, oh my God, this wasamazing.
And then there were the people,there were some people that
gave it three stars, that werelike, um, it was a little
disturbing at some parts, butlike, I guess, overall I enjoyed
this a little.
But I and then I don't know ifyou saw people's comments, like
(21:16):
on those like reviews, that werelike anybody that gave this
above one star should go to jail, which leads to my next point.
The author was arrested for thecontents of this book.
Yes, she was arrested in herhome, like for like pedophilia
content in her home.
But if you think about it, likepeople that have, like children
(21:40):
, pornography on their computersgo to jail.
So like this is the samefucking thing.
Like I never I'm not, that isso true.
But I I'm not trying to, I'mnot trying to say cause I don't
think us reading romance is thesame thing as like watching porn
.
Like I do think there's more toit, but but in this aspect,
(22:01):
like it's the same thing in mymind, it's the same thing In my
mind, it's the same thing.
And I'm like, thank fucking Godthe author was arrested.
Like how can you think it'sokay to write something like
that?
But I don't know if you'venoticed, but like now the book
has taken, it's like beenremoved everywhere.
Jordan (22:18):
Like you can't find it on Amazon.
I don't see it anymore.
You don't find it on Goodreads.
Like there was this entirediscourse thing on like threads,
like I said before, but Ihaven't like seen it pop up and
in like I don't know like twoweeks time, because we talked
about this like two weeks ago,where you said, hey, we can
discuss like book drama on the,on the podcast.
I'm like, oh sure, I have noclue what that was about.
Fabienne (22:35):
And then, literally like two days after, I saw that
thing on my threads account andI'm like, oh, I know I'm so glad
we didn't talk about it becausewe would have talked about it,
but literally, literally, it wasthat that day that I saw
something, that she got arrested, so I wouldn't even have been
able to mention that she gotarrested and at that time.
(22:56):
So I'm glad we waited, becauseI'm like, but still like, thank
fucking God, but I don't know ifyou know.
So like Amazon's like reallyweird and when you publish a
paperback it's so hard to get ittaken down.
Like Amazon doesn't takeanything down.
So like you'll see a lot ofout-of-print stuff from authors
because, like they have removedthe book but Amazon still has
(23:18):
yet to take it down.
Literally no trace of this.
I think they're even trying.
Like no trace of this book.
Like it's hard to search theauthor.
I think you can still find theauthor and her two other books,
like Tori Woods.
Anyways, I don't know aboutLauren Ashley, like I don't know
if like, because I think buthonestly, Jory, that name
(23:42):
actually does sound familiar.
Jordan (23:43):
I thought for a hot second.
Like Lauren, Ashley like whowrote the F1 series and I was
like lauren.
Sure, like who wrote the f1series and I was.
I was really scared for asecond.
But she is not like she was.
She wasn't an australian.
Are you gonna do live?
Fabienne (23:50):
research.
Right now I am.
I'm looking up lauren ashley,but I feel like that's such a
common name.
Oh nope, she's here.
She's here, but show meeverything show me but it's like
okay, so there's everything Iam part one broken, and then
everything I am part twocrossroads, then pieces of us.
But like, this is the authorand I don't know how to make her
(24:14):
bigger on, I can't like laurenashley.
Well, it's a little bit bigger.
Jordan (24:20):
This is like her honestly so I don't know I'm
generally not even saying thisjust because of this episode,
but she really has like thatcreepy look about her.
Look at those eyes.
Fabienne (24:33):
They're like you know, void you should have got the
good thing you got arrested.
But like I, just like, I can'tbelieve that.
It's like I have literalgoosebumps, like the fact that
you would write something likethat, and then like I like, I'm
(24:53):
sorry, but like what the fuck iswrong in your head to think
it's okay to write somethinglike that?
Jordan (25:00):
well, that's what I said .
I think they generally did notthink that anything was wrong.
Fabienne (25:05):
I mean, oh wait, I I have to process this though so I
don't know, like what you saw,I I feel like I needed to give
the backstory now, like no, no,we can go into.
Jordan (25:18):
I feel like you are like so much more like present still
, like in the bookstagramcommunity.
Um I, I have to say I am moreactive but I don't really mingle
in as much drama, not to saythat you do only like solely
mingle within this dramadramatic.
You know situations but you dosee more on it than I do, also
because maybe I also becamemaybe off the location maybe,
(25:41):
but I also feel like I want thedrama.
Fabienne (25:44):
So like I see, like I'm like you want those, I love
it like I saw.
I like saw someone posting aboutit, but like in a very vague
aspect and I didn't know likewhat they were talking about.
So then I was like, oh, who isthis tori woods?
And so I saw it a while ago,like a couple weeks ago, but
like nothing really came of ityet, because they were just the
person was like I think sheshould have done more research
(26:06):
in the kink community, like shedidn't really get into like the
specifics.
And then, because you watchthat one reel, like more popped
up about it, and then it waslike, oh, then I was like, oh,
like this guy fantasized beingwith a, like a younger person,
and then I was like, oh, hefantas, he fantasized with being
with a three-year-old, and Iwas like what?
(26:26):
And then I was like, oh, shegot arrested.
And I was like, oh, thank God.
And then it was just like allthese things that I kept like
seeing, but probably because Iwas watching them.
So then it was like coming tome the algorithm.
I wasn't like I wasn't likesearching this stuff.
Searching this stuff, well, Idid search the author.
(26:47):
So I saw the book before amazontook it down and like thank
goodness, overall it had liketwo stars or like one and a half
, but still like the fact that Isaw some reviews like I saw
someone give it five five stars.
Jordan (26:57):
Okay question then for you do you think that that was
for a person herself, but thenjust like in disguise, or was it
someone who was bribed?
That is a good question.
I'm gonna give you like adollar, like amazon gift card,
if you give this book 50, like50 five stars.
You know I can see people beinglike you know, spineless, like
(27:18):
that and just taking that,taking that offer disgusting,
yeah, honestly, is a kink.
Is it like wait, I'm actuallycurious now because is it the
same?
Then it's like a dom substitutesituation, like with the daddy,
I think it's like.
Fabienne (27:35):
I think it's like similar, but I think it's more
so like you're.
You want to like take care of.
So there's no like, yeah, isn'tthat?
Jordan (27:43):
also doesn't that like also encapsulates, like the
entire dynamic between adominant sub?
Fabienne (27:50):
I mean, yes, but I think the dominant sub too can
be more about like pain.
This is like I don't think pain.
I haven't done so much research, but dom sub could be like more
like ordering you around, like,and I think that can be like
more, yeah, where I think like adaddy little part of the
package I think that is in theaspect of like aftercare, I feel
(28:14):
like, but like daddy little ismore like.
I think of like when you'resick and you take care of
somebody, like that.
Jordan (28:21):
I think okay, but I have , I haven't done that much
research, so maybe it really issimilar to dom sub but and
there's something else, but I soI don't know and if we look at
it fictionally, like when weread um deep end, for example,
where lucas was a dom and then,um, what's her name bandy,
(28:43):
what's his sub, he kind of likesubconsciously or no, yeah,
subconsciously I took care ofher as well.
I feel like that made it's likethe same type of dynamic.
Then yeah, anyways, I'm notreally I don't know.
I I don't really know muchabout kinks, I have to admit,
and for some reason, yeah, thatway, I mean, I know about them
(29:04):
you know how you phrase so Idon't
Fabienne (29:06):
want to yuck on anybody's yeah, like I don't, I
don't know enough to like fullygive any actual like, like
information on it likedefinitely, just look it up it's
actually hilarious that she gotarrested.
Jordan (29:25):
Sorry, I can't thank god the fact that I just actually,
like some people, really thinkthat they can get away with that
shit like it's on your computer.
You know, people watch thatshit and it's like what?
Fabienne (29:38):
yeah, yeah, let's go to the next one.
Okay, what was this?
Jordan (29:44):
this is not as deep as this, like as the tori story.
The tori story not toy story,ironically, because you know the
tori story, um, but I I don'tknow like there has been this
entire thing on book instagramfor the past year, two years
almost, where people say youdon't have to shit on other
(30:06):
readers for what they prefer intheir books.
Now, this is obviously like,you know, beside the kink and
beside, you know, whatever youknow, yeah, the poor discussion,
so to say, um, but it's morelike, if you like dark romance
romance, if you like sportsromance, you like sports romance
.
If you like smut in your bookswithout the plot, then you like
smut without the plot.
That's completely fine, you doyou?
(30:26):
You know, um, people shouldlike stay in their lanes, but
then some people feel the needor they feel obligated to, you
know, change lanes and be likehey, you, this now in extension
of source, um, I have seendiscourse on threads where
people have started doing thisagain, and I haven't seen this
(30:49):
on bookstagram, ironically, butI have seen this then on book
threads is what it is now.
I mean, you know about like um,what was um book twitter was a
thing back in a day.
It's now x, but it's twitter.
When it still was twitter, wehad like book twitter and we
have book threads now, butpeople start coming at readers
(31:10):
um, for their preferences inbooks and, um, obviously there's
books where there's no smart orlike closed door romances.
I think people, some peoplelike call it or it's like it's
the officially, like theofficial term, but it's really
marketed.
And Bryn Weaver actually cameinto play here and she is pretty
vicious on book threads.
It's hilarious.
(31:33):
She really comes like also likeIvy Ophelia, you know, from the
Poisoner.
They are like very vocal, likeyou know very active and like
proactive and it's fantastic tosee.
So if someone says somethingabout like people who read SMUD,
they're like you know, below,they're like you know, like how
(31:56):
do you say that?
Like scum of the earth, notnecessarily those words, but
basically they don't, they don'tknow any better.
They're because they they readsmut.
Um, I'm really phrasing thispoorly, by the way, anyways.
But then I feel velia comes inand brin weaver, they, I feel
like they're just like you knowthey.
(32:17):
They come to like people'srescues on book threads and
they're like, yeah, but whatabout if you just don't come
into people's dms and say thatthey should not read this?
What about what?
What then?
But people have basically, likeyou know, they're just shitting
on people's um preferences.
To read smut is what it comesdown to.
It's very poorly articulated umthat's like so mean yeah I know,
(32:43):
but it's really funny to seelike the comebacks from like
brie, from like brin and um alsoactually kv rose sometimes pops
in, which is interesting to seeI don't have threads, but now
I'm wondering if I should get it.
Fabienne (32:58):
But I've heard so many people talk about how toxic
threads is and how negative thisspace is yeah, but I think it's
like things like this thatpeople like talk about, like all
it is is like drama and thingslike that, and then jor honestly
, then everything is toxicnowadays also, I feel like
(33:18):
social media.
Jordan (33:20):
There are obviously like unwritten rules and like
guidelines that people shouldlike stick to, that people
should like adhere to, to likekeep the space positive.
But people are animals onsocial platforms Like you can
hide so easily behind a screen,like your text, like your
(33:50):
textual um um sort yeah, likeyeah.
So you can hide so easily and Ifeel that gives like some
people like the extra motivationor courage.
However, you want to put it umto excessively, like shit and
other people um unnecessarily,and you know, yes, it's toxic,
but also, yes, you can choose ina very healthy manner, not to.
You know, choose not to engagein that type of discourse.
(34:12):
You can choose to look theother way.
You can choose to.
You know, remove those peoplefrom your spheres.
You can.
They can choose to walk theother way.
But everything on social mediaplatforms, you know, whatever
you choose youtube, um x threadsum tiktok, instagram people are
gonna be always mean um, but soare people like in daily life.
(34:35):
And then, if you, if you doencounter like people in like
the actual life, day-to-day life, you also literally walk away,
like physically.
So people have like the powerin their own hands in that sense
, like you can literally choosenot to you know remark on other
people's like mean comments.
You can just like.
You know what.
I'm just not today I'm going toblock this person.
(34:57):
I am going to you know and alsolike with Instagram too, you can
look up, like the thing you canchoose, basically your for you
page.
The more you look for certainthings, the more you look for
like positivity, the more itcomes back, literally on threads
what goes around comes around.
So if you look only for youknow, I don't know romance books
(35:20):
, or if you but then obviouslylike the positive side of it all
, um, I don't know, uh,microphones, for example, first
thing that I see here, then youonly like the only thing that
you see on threads or book orlike instagram is like
microphones.
So it you know, you can reallyreally choose yourself what you
um what to see, what to read andum what you want to engage in
(35:43):
or like with yeah, that's a verygood point.
Fabienne (35:47):
So those were my two cents.
Jordan (35:49):
The power is in your hands that was a really good one
, yeah yeah, but it is, it is,it is, but it is, it is.
Fabienne (36:00):
Um, okay, can I go into my last piece of drama then
?
Jordan (36:04):
only last piece.
Fabienne (36:05):
Yes, of course yeah, this is the last one.
Okay, I first.
I have to start it with aquestion.
Oh, like for you specifically,what are your thoughts on
posting a negative review likeon social media?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Jordan (36:24):
no right or wrong answer , please okay, can I, before I
actually give you an answer, canI?
Can I ask you something else aswell?
Oh, okay, just just just sothat I have my frame, like my
framework of how, of how I can'tanswer your question.
Yes, so do.
(36:45):
Do we?
Do we see and like a negativereview as like I hated this book
because of x, y and z?
Or do we see a negative reviewas an honest review in which is
just like phrase morepolitically correct, as I did
not enjoy this book as much as Ithought I would, or I thought I
would.
(37:05):
I had high hopes for this book,but it didn't come to fruition
because of xyz, would you stillsay the last one is a negative
one.
Fabienne (37:15):
I.
Jordan (37:16):
I think you could say like your negative review could
be whatever you wanted yournegative review to be of a book
okay, then, technically I am allhere for negative reviews on
social media are yeah, however,important footnote, if it's uh,
okay, just for the sake ofexample, yeah say I say I read
(37:41):
enigma, you know, by runix, likein april, whenever we do get
like our hands on it and I'mgoing to be like, oh, I fucking
hated this book.
For just example, likehypothetically.
Fabienne (37:52):
Hypothetically.
Jordan (37:54):
Runix follows me, I follow her.
I would not put that on socialmedia.
I would maybe only, like youknow, post about it just to show
my followers that I have readthe book and just like for
content, because you know Runix,great name, as in like large,
big name, you know yes.
So no, I would just be mean.
Fabienne (38:34):
Yeah, because she thought I am here.
Jordan (38:36):
Yes, but I am here.
But I am here for the negativereviews in the broad sense.
I never tag an author, forexample.
Fabienne (38:46):
Yes, no Like tagging authors, no, no.
Hashtags, no, no.
And I can see where you'recoming from, with the authors
following you, but so have youseen anything about this Larry
Reads drama.
Larry Reads no, I can't saythat I have so she's like pretty
(39:07):
big on TikTok and she has aYouTube page and she and her
name is Larry.
Yeah, it's like Larissa, buther nickname's Larry, oh not bad
um.
But she got the arc for this newRenaena kent book and
apparently she hated it.
So she posted a negative reviewon tiktok.
(39:29):
But it was her talking about itand she's like this book gave
nothing.
Like I expected it to besomething different and it gave
nothing.
I dnf'd it, all these thingsand basically she posted it.
Then she made a like funnytiktok and apparently she did
(39:51):
say she said that it was a joke.
She said it was a joke, but Idon't, like I'm I think it's a
joke.
I've been following larry for awhile but I understand how
people could blow it out ofproportion.
But she did a tiktok because Iguess they were mutuals on
TikTok.
So Rina followed her and shefollowed Rina.
But reena kent unfollowed herafter this negative review.
(40:15):
So she did a funny video oflike being like with a gracie
abrams song being I miss um, I'msorry, I miss you, or I miss
you, I'm sorry, or whatever, andtalking about how, like they go
from mutuals to like following,so like they used to be friends
and then like now it just showsas Larry following her.
(40:37):
So she like unfollows her andso she posts this like review
and she meant it as a joke Likethis, like funny video, because
you post one negative reviewwhen before she was like raving
about her like one series God ofMalice, god of Fury, like those
books, like she loves thatseries with like her whole heart
.
So I think that's like why umreena kent started following her
(41:01):
, so she posts this thing.
It goes crazy.
There's the people that sidewith larry being like why the
fuck would reena kent unfollowher, like how dare you?
Like she's given you so muchpublicity with your series.
And then there's the otherseries, the other book, people
that are like you shouldn't haveposted it in negative review,
(41:24):
like that's not what socialmedia is for.
That's like what review pagesare for.
Is this like negative review?
And it literally blows out ofproportion to the point that
Larry had to do another videobeing like hey guys, like I
didn't take offense to Rena Kentunfollowing me.
I think you can unfollow,follow and unfollow people at
any time.
(41:44):
There's no right or wrongreason.
I just did this.
I thought it was a joke, butclearly it was not taken as a
joke and I'm sorry for that.
But please do not go after RenaKent, but also don't come out
after me either.
Like so people were likeblowing up her spot.
But now I've seen a lot ofpeople mention, like, how social
(42:05):
media is like not meant forreviews and not meant for
negative reviews, which Ipersonally don't agree with that
, because there's people Ifollow and I follow for reviews
Like.
So if you're going to review abook, like if I see you're
reading it, I want your reviewof it, and I feel like that's
where, like, people don'tunderstand.
(42:26):
Like the like Larry's page isabout reviewing books.
Like she has a booktube whereshe literally will tell you if
she liked a book or not.
Like she can't, what is shegoing to a book or not?
Like she can't, what is shegonna?
It's not like a, she's not justlike a recommendation, like
person.
So she's not gonna just tellyou all the books she like loves
.
She's gonna tell you the onesthat she absolutely hated too,
whether they're like ones shelike.
(42:49):
Like you know what I mean.
But I think, like I do seewhere you're saying too, about
like if the author follows youyou.
So Rena Kent did follow her,but I feel like she is also a
reviewer, so you would thinkthat these authors know that
like they start, like peoplestart, as I feel like I mean you
(43:10):
kind of know that like a lot ofthese like bigger in, like book
people can I jump in before Ilose this train of thought?
Jordan (43:18):
yes, so I also feel, like now with um, how the
bookstagram community works likeauthors follow readers, readers
follow authors.
Obviously, um, but then also Ihave this feeling where a very
large majority of readers whoare mutuals with authors, they
(43:42):
have this parasocial type ofrelationship with them, so they
feel one way about and towardthese authors, but the authors
are just like, okay, well, Ilike their prose, they support
my writings, they support mywork.
I'm just going to follow themback and maybe in those people's
minds they see that, oh, we'refriends.
(44:03):
Now we are friends, we have arelationship, we are friends.
So I cannot tell, I cannot saybad stuff about my friends.
So some people who then postnegative reviews say something
like slightly negative aboutthese authors, about their works
.
Then the people who do havethis, you know, who have this
(44:26):
grand like grandeur type ofthinking where they're like oh,
we're friends.
They come to these other peopleand be like, hey, you can't say
that, because bookstagram isnot meant for this.
You can't be mean towards X, yand Z because of X, y and Z.
Do you slightly see where I'mcoming?
Yeah, I do, I do, and honestlyalso in their defense.
(44:47):
It comes from a point, it comesfrom, like you know, like a
point of, I guess.
I guess admiration comes from,like you know, like, like, like
from love, in a way that theywant to protect the author,
which I can only admire to acertain point, but also
sometimes I'm like this is goinga little bit too far.
Everyone can fucking fuckingpost on their social media
(45:09):
whatever they want to becauseit's an expression of their
creativity whether it's you know, it's people's opinions.
If you can't pose reviews,because if that becomes too
serious, if it's not only justpositive and lovely, then also,
why do news channels have socialmedia?
Why do, uh?
(45:29):
Why do politicians have socialmedia?
Why, you know, why does thewhite house have the social
media?
Yeah, no, that's true.
If you don't want, if you don'twant sorry, I have to.
I have to finish this.
If you don't want, if you don'twant reality on your social
media, then don't be on fuckingsocial media.
(45:49):
Go out on the streets put awayyour phone, touch some fucking
grass and play in the water.
Fabienne (45:58):
You know, go play with your little brothers and
sisters and with a dog throw aball sometime.
I totally agree.
I think you should be able topost whatever you want, which,
in the same vein, is like if anauthor wants to unfollow you,
then like that is within theirright.
Just like, exactly, I followand unfollow people all the
fucking time and I'm like, butit's because their content
doesn't align with me.
(46:19):
Like remember how, like?
I mean, we started ourbookstagram pages and we were
all about dark romance, like allabout it, and then, like at the
end of 2023, we were like, well, can't do this anymore.
We like, honestly, we both likemade a full like 180 that I
unfollowed so many dark romancelike bookstagrammers because I
(46:40):
was like, if I wasn't friendswith you or if you didn't post
about other things, like Ididn't want to see your content
anymore.
So I did like a mass likeunfollow thing, exactly, and I'm
like and and maybe people tookoffense to that, because I know
some people I think that didstill follow and content on my
comment on my stuff stop.
(47:03):
So I think they like noticedthat.
But I was also like I'm notgonna apologize for like not
being, like not wanting to readdark romance and then not
wanting to see it so, but likeif we were still friends and you
were still like a dark romancereader, like that's in itself,
that was like completelydifferent.
But I feel like, which is alsoto say like if you're a dark
(47:24):
romance reader, it's like,please still post about that.
But just because I don't wantto see it doesn't mean that I
like don't have it within myright to unfollow.
So I feel like's, I still like,I like the negative reviews,
like, and I want people to feelthat they can post these
negative reviews because I don't.
Jordan (47:42):
I feel like, if I think it's like a balance is to scale
too.
Like, yeah, if a book is reallygreat, then of course there's
more like positive and lovingreviews.
Fabienne (47:53):
But there's also going to be people out there who
didn't love it, and they havejust as much as right to post
about their perspective on astory as the people who loved it
Exactly Like everybody hastheir right to like, post about
a book and like, and maybe itstarts this like bigger
conversation and because I'mthinking too like I thought
there's other people I follow,like, thinking of Beach Read and
(48:15):
Bubbly.
Like she posts literally everysingle book she reads.
She never like tags the author,but she's always posting about
the book she has read and it'sher review, because that's like
literally what her page is.
Everybody reads the book she'sreading, so then they can join
her story where she talks aboutit afterwards.
So it's like you like, but youalso know what you're getting.
(48:35):
So, like maybe you're somebodythat doesn't want like people
following people that do reviews, then don't follow them.
You have the right to unfollow,but I do not think you have the
right to tell people thatnegative reviews don't belong on
social media.
I don't think you have theright to say that negative
reviews only belong on reviewplatforms, which I agree Like.
(48:57):
I think reviews belong on thosereview platforms, but I've had
authors step into the reviewspace of mine and I've given
their book two stars and thenthey make a joke out of it and
make me feel uncomfortable.
So it works both fucking ways.
So it's like, like I, like yousay that negative reviews only
(49:18):
belong on review spaces, butlike I've had, I've done it and
I've I've given those negativereviews and then the authors
come into that space.
So, and I will talk about thatuntil I'm blue in the
motherfucking face, because Ifeel like there is no like.
Jordan (49:34):
There is no like safe space I mean, I'm not religious,
but amen, sister like.
Fabienne (49:43):
I think you should be able to post whatever the fuck
you want, because I like, in thesense of like the larry thing
and I do feel bad for her likeand and maybe she could have, I
don't know.
I think she did what she wantedand I think that is all you can
ask for and she took no offenseto the author unfollowing her
and I think that's the bestcourse of action.
(50:04):
I think if she was truly upsetthat the author unfollowed her,
that would be somethingdifferent.
But I follow Larry for herreviews I like.
So it's like if she were tojust stop posting reviews, I
would unfollow her, becausethat's actually had she had.
Jordan (50:22):
She posted like a negative review before this.
Fabienne (50:25):
Reena can't fiasco oh, all the time she posts negative
reviews all the time then whyis this now any different than,
I think, the ones before?
because it's reena no, I thinkwhat it is is because then she
made that video of reenaunfollowing her.
Even though she meant it as ajoke, people took it too far.
So I don't think it was thenegative review per se, because
(50:47):
there were the people, somepeople that we follow I saw in
the comments being like reena,reena k.
How could you unfollow her?
She's given you so muchpublicity on your other series.
I think you're doing adisservice to Larry for
unfollowing her and I'm likegirl my one name in Jersey is
Jordan.
Jordan (51:06):
Who are these people?
I'll tell you after.
Fabienne (51:10):
I'm not blowing up her spot on here, but I will show
you afterwards because I waslike jeez it.
I was like I figured you wouldbe the one person that wouldn't
have said this stuff but like so.
But then apparently, like these, some of larry's followers were
going after reena kent forunfollowing her.
So this like video that was.
But then there was the peopleon the other side that that
believe that review negativereviews shouldn't be on social
(51:32):
media.
They're like you have, youcan't be upset for the author
unfollowing you because they'reprotecting their peace, which I
agree, they are protecting theirpeace.
But Larry wasn't upset.
Like she made this.
It was like a joke of the videobut people took it too far,
like both sides took it like asnot a joke and she had to come
back in another video and belike guys, that was a joke,
(51:55):
please do not go after Rena Kentand also please don't come
after me.
Like this was a joke and I'msorry it did not land as a joke.
So I think that's like wherethis all stems from.
But like people are like peopleare like blowing it up.
I think it's finally like dyingdown.
But like people blew it up thispast week that like I went into
(52:18):
my local bookstore over theweekend and the girl behind the
counter was talking about it andI was like, are you talking
about Larry Reed's?
And she's like, yes and I, butlike we agreed, she was like I
was like we were going back andforth about it and um, in the
sense of like talking about likewhat we knew and stuff, and
she's like, yeah, clearly it wasa joke.
And I was like, exactly, and Iwas like these people coming
(52:39):
into her comments like sayinglike how could Rena Kent
unfollow her?
Like she's done so.
She's done so much publicityfor her books, like she's
brought her so many new readers.
And I was like these peoplecoming into Larry's comment
Larry doesn't know who the fuckthey are.
They're like treating her asthey're like her best friend.
And I was like Larry has like600,000 followers on TikTok.
(53:03):
She doesn't know who youfucking are, so you're having
her back with Rena Kent andyou're going after Rena Kent for
somebody that doesn't even knowyou fucking exist.
Jordan (53:16):
Honestly, that's just really fucking satire parasocial
relationship.
Everybody.
Some people really make no,honestly, it's the same.
Yeah, I can say this.
It's the same thing like withthis e-person.
You know who we interviewedlike way, way back back,
remember.
(53:36):
Thank God it doesn't existanymore, honestly, but it's the
same thing, like people arehyping him up and it's like oh
no, but he knows me, I'm hisfriend, I'm like honey.
Fabienne (53:49):
He doesn't know who you are.
He doesn't know the fuck youare.
You are a little guy.
Jordan (53:55):
Honestly, but you go pay that Patreon level honey, that
one patron tier, you know, $50 amonth honey.
You do you, but generallypeople are really sad sometimes.
We are not those people, though, but some people are.
Fabienne (54:08):
I think people just don't they like.
I think you see how I don'tknow if it's like dynamic,
especially with TikTok, and yousee these like talking videos
and stuff like I, I lovewatching videos.
Yeah, yeah, like TikTok.
It's like you just see themtalking to a camera.
So you see, you see themtalking.
Yeah, so it's like I like Ilove Whitney Simmons and I love
(54:32):
her get ready with me like, likegoing to the gym and stuff that
I can like.
Not that, I think, grantedthough, I did post about her new
, her new like launch for likeGymshark, so I bought her new
like Of course you did.
I did.
Yeah, Adapt collection thebrown, like the deep brown, and
(54:54):
it's so pretty, and I tagged herin it and she commented on it.
Jordan (54:59):
I was like she knows who I am.
But then there you go.
Fabienne (55:05):
There you go, no, exactly.
And then I think people getlike misconstrued because she's
like, like, because they commentand I'm like, she commented,
she knows who I am, but like,then they're like.
Then they go after peoplebecause they like, but like,
yeah, yeah, it's insane, it'sactually insane it is really
(55:29):
insane.
Jordan (55:30):
You know.
You know what this is.
This is actually the mind of afucking 14 to 15 year old.
That's when you do that stuff.
But if you're just like our ageor like you know about the age
of 25, you gotta be reasonableman, be more mature.
Fabienne (55:44):
Gotta be reasonable.
Jordan (55:45):
No, I mean I say it as a joke, but I mean it generally
People above the age of 25 thesedays, they don't know how to do
life, they don't they don't.
They don't know how to do life,they don't.
I mean, it's just some people.
Some people know how to do life.
Apparently this tori person,she knows how to do life.
Fabienne (56:01):
She's a person now, or arrested but I think it just
goes to show like people can,like, like people can.
One post can mean differentthings to different people.
So you take this video thatlarry did that's supposed to be
a joke, which I thought of it asa joke.
Like I watch her videos.
I saw the negative review.
I see this video of like herunfollowing her.
(56:25):
I laugh and then but otherpeople either go after Rena Kent
or other people come after herfor like not be like getting
upset that the author wants toprotect their piece Like I think
it's just so interesting thatpeople's minds I almost like
wonder if it stems from like aninsecurity of like where you are
(56:48):
and like how you view things.
That is like, oh, that's whyyou took this post in the
direction you took it in.
I might be getting too deep.
No, I might be going like toodeep here.
Jordan (57:09):
So like maybe not no, Deep dive into the bookstagram
gossip.
I kind of love it, though thiswas literally like your last one
.
You don't have anything morefor me, no, but we can't.
Fabienne (57:26):
We can't talk, we can't label every episode deep
dive.
Jordan (57:32):
Yes, we can, literally every episode.
You just said the power is inthe palm of our own hands,
jordan yes, we can.
Literally, the power is in thepalm of our own hands, jordan
yes, we can oh, it looks likeI'm holding my head.
Fabienne (57:42):
Oh yeah, but that's all I had for, like the bookish
drama I think there was actuallymore than enough for one
episode.
I think so too, I think we can.
Jordan (57:56):
Okay, yeah just.
Fabienne (57:59):
Yeah, so hopefully you enjoyed this bookish drama.
I love talking, I lovegossiping, I love drama.
Give me all the drama.
Jordan (58:08):
You know what would be better, though, for next time,
when we actually come togetheragain and then we have the same
type of conversation.
But I bring the truffle friesand you bring the Prosecco.
Fabienne (58:18):
Yes, yeah and then we just call it tea time, but then
without tea.
Tea, but no tea but then Istill need to bring the truffle
fries and you still need tobring the Prosecco, so that way
we can both be.
We'll both bring it twoportions, two portions each need
to bring the Prosecco.
Jordan (58:34):
So that way we can both be.
We'll both bring it.
We'll both bring it.
Yeah, yep, two portions we'resharing.
Two portions each sharing?
I don't think so.
No, just leave the bottle.
Fabienne (58:46):
Thank you so much for listening and please don't
forget to rate and reviewwherever you can find us.
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