March 17, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, I speak with sci-fi writer, editor, and publisher Jean-Paul L. Garnier, who shares his journey from avid reader to the owner of Space Cowboy Books, a thriving indie bookstore and publishing house in Joshua Tree, California. He reveals how science fiction offers writers complete creative freedom to explore human psychology through fantastical settings.
More than just a desert bookstore, Space Cowboy Books represents a multifaceted literary ecosystem. Starting in 2016 as a modest shed, it quickly expanded into a proper storefront near Joshua Tree National Park – where the stunning landscape and dark skies provide constant inspiration. The store's "free books for kids" program showcases Garnier's commitment to childhood literacy, eventually growing into partnerships with local nonprofits to build school libraries.
Whether you're a science fiction enthusiast, aspiring writer, independent bookshop lover, or simply curious about literary entrepreneurship, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into how one passionate reader created a thriving literary hub in the California desert.
To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast.
Michael Moorcock Interview With Mandy Jackson-Beverly
Gloriana, Or The Unfulfill’d Queen, Michael Moorcock
New Maps of Hell: A Survey of Science Fiction, Kingsley Amis
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to episode 285.
John Paul L Garnier is the ownerof Space Cowboy Books bookstore
and publishing house and theproducer of Simultaneous Times.
(00:53):
He is the editor of the SFPAStarline magazine and deputy in
chief of Worlds of If and Galaxymagazines.
In 2024, Jean-Paul'sSimultaneous Times, Volume 3 won
the Laureate Award for BestEditor and for Best Anthology,
which also won the 2024 NextGeneration Indie Book Award and
(01:16):
the Critter's Reader Poll.
In 2023, he also won theLaureate Award for Best Fanzine.
Jean-paul is the host of manyauthor events, as well as the
acclaimed Flash Science FictionNights reading series.
He is the author of many booksof poetry and science fiction
and has been the recipient ofthe Arts Connection Arts
(01:37):
Innovator Grant and the JamesPatterson Holiday Bonus.
His work has also beennominated for the Elgin,
Riesling and Dwarf Star Awards.
Jean-paul has also served as ajuror for the Speculative
Literature Foundation and theOmega Sci-Fi Awards.
Hi, Jean-Paul, and welcome tothe show.
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
My pleasure.
Now let's begin by learningabout you what led you to
becoming a writer and yourinterest in science fiction.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So writing is something I've done since I was
nine years old.
I got an early start writingwith poetry, but it wasn't
always science fiction for me.
In my youth I read mostlyclassic literature.
My parents had been poets, sothat was sort of a push in that
direction, and my father hadbeen a French literature
professor.
So we had this incrediblelibrary in my home and anytime I
(02:28):
had a question my father wouldpoint to the library.
The answers are in there.
So that got me started.
And then in my early 20s or Ithink I was around 19 or 20, a
friend of mine gave me a KurtVonnegut book and that sort of
changed everything.
And then I found Frank Herbert,unaware that he had written
Dune.
I just found a book at a thriftstore and that began me reading
(02:51):
science fiction voraciously asa writer.
I found it particularlyattractive because I mean,
writing is just utter freedom.
You can do absolutely anythingin writing.
It's a place of completefreedom.
So that was a big appeal to me.
And in science fiction inparticular, it's the only field
that you can actually break thelaws of physics and get away
(03:13):
with it.
You can break the laws ofnature, as William Burroughs
would call it.
The natural outlaw those whobreak the laws of nature, and so
that just has an incrediblecompelling freedom to get away
with anything you want, andthat's very attractive as a
writer because it gives us anamazing toolkit of devices for
(03:34):
telling the types of stories wewant to tell.
Of course, all stories areabout people, but to use
fantastical settings and to putpeople into bizarre forms of
durace brings up wonderfulquestions about the human psyche
that we can speculate upon, andso that's been a great
attractor towards sciencefiction, and for the last 25
(03:56):
years it's made up the bulk ofmy reading.
It's not all I read, of course.
All readers read widely, I feel.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, and it's also important for writers to read a
wide variation of nonfiction andfiction.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Absolutely, and you know, nonfiction makes up a
healthy part of my diet.
I also have a rule for myselfthat if I ever catch myself
saying, oh, I'd never read that,then I have to.
I have to read it then, and acouple of times a year I'm
inclined to go pick up somethingthat is of little interest to
me, just to dig beneath thesurface there, and you know,
either that validates anunwarranted opinion.
(04:30):
You know that we have ourbiases and we can either have
them confirmed or, even better,broken, and so I love reading
outside of my scope for thatreason.
And you know, I'm definitelythe type of person that if I'm
not liking a book, I will stillsee it through.
I'll finish, you know, and myreading taste can be masochistic
(04:51):
at times with the types ofbooks that I pick up.
But you know, my profession, mylivelihood and my life is all
about literature and books, andone of the wonderful things
about having a bookshop is therecommendations that customers
give to me.
So while science fiction is ahuge part of my reading diet,
nonfiction is as well.
(05:11):
A lot of poetry and, working asan editor for various magazines
, I read a lot of slush.
That's a huge part of myreading, and that's often work
that's not in its finishedstages.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
For listeners who aren't familiar with the slush
pile, could you explain please?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Sure.
So when you're working for amagazine or publishing house,
slush is the submissions thatcome in, and you know those can
be anything from establishedwriters to writers that are
attempting to get their firstpublication.
Sometimes the work is ready toprint, sometimes it is not and
needs work, or it's just not agood fit for the venue or the
(05:50):
author isn't quite there yet.
So it's work in a lot ofdifferent stages of completion,
and getting to know writersthrough that sort of behind the
scenes process is also extremely, extremely valuable for me as a
writer.
I've learned so much in thatway.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I want to go back to something you said, and that is
how much your parents encouragedyou to read.
I had the same kind of parents.
I saw them reading, my siblingsreading, and it made me want to
read.
I've partnered with a nonprofitcalled Books in Homes USA and
through them I have learned thatit has been proven if a child
(06:26):
has I think it's between like 20and 40 books or something in
their home library, then theiradult numeracy and literacy
rates will be higher than ifthey didn't have a home library.
And I'll add the importance ofreading to your children from
birth, all the way through.
It's so important.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's extremely important and for many reasons.
I mean not only for childhooddevelopment, but reading and
sharing stories is also how welearn to empathize with one
another and learn thedifferences in each other, and
that's just incredibly importanton an emotional level.
So engaging with childhoodliteracy is super important.
It had come out a while ago Ihad talked to this was in the
(07:09):
early days of the bookstore, soabout eight years ago and I
talked to an elementary schoolteacher who told me that their
school didn't have books and Isaid well, that's criminal.
How many books do you want?
I'll build the school a library, and that ended up.
I ended up losing touch withthat person, but that caused me,
so now I had all thesechildren's books, so I started a
(07:29):
free books for kids section inthe bookstore so all kids under
14 can pick out a book on me,and there's a really wonderful
effect to this.
The children are not used tobeing treated like adults.
They're not used to being givensomething by a stranger.
That's positive and there'sgreat enthusiasm for it, and I
find that also with childrenthat are too young to be reading
(07:52):
on their own, they'll ask theirparents to read to them that
night, since they've gotten abook as a gift and that's just a
double win.
And through that it also cameout.
I ended up meeting some localnonprofits that did reading
programs in local schools, and Iteamed up with a local
nonprofit called Spark Growth toactually build libraries in
elementary schools.
(08:12):
Some of these schools hadwonderful libraries in them, but
it was coming out that thechildren didn't have books at
home and that's problematic.
So we built these librarieswhere they could take books and
keep them if they wanted to.
So we built these librarieswhere they could take books and
keep them if they wanted to, andthat was a wonderful success.
But unfortunately more recentlyand I think this is just part of
(08:33):
the attack on literacy ingeneral in this country without
our consent or notifying thenonprofit, those were removed
and destroyed and replaced withbook vending machines.
Now, while on the surface thebook vending machines would seem
like a good idea, apparentlyhow these programs work is that
the kids earn these fake dollarsfor good behavior and they're
(08:54):
able to use those in the vendingmachines.
But the problem with that is itexcludes the students that need
the books the most.
We weren't giving books tochildren and I don't give books
to children based on theirbehavior.
It's based on the need forreading and that has
de-incentivized reading forchildren and that's just
criminal.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, that's heartbreaking.
I'm with you.
Every child needs to be reading.
Let's talk about Space CowboyBooks.
You opened in 2016, and it's anindie bookshop in Joshua Tree,
California.
So why an indie bookshop andwhy in Joshua Tree?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, to answer the first part of that question
first, I have worked in so manyvarieties of fields.
I've been in hospitality, I'vebeen in construction, I've been
in food.
None of these things wereterribly satisfying to me when I
was a house painter all day.
I would just think I wish Icould work with my mind instead
of my meat, and literature hadobviously been a huge part of my
(09:49):
life already, and so I'd alwaysfantasized about having a
bookstore, without knowing thepracticalities of it.
I'd even started collectingbooks to open up a bookshop, but
it seemed out of reach, and itwas appealing for multiple
things.
One, to do what one loves isimperative in life, and two, not
(10:12):
everyone's a reader.
You know everybody eats, so youknow you work at a grocery
store and you deal withabsolutely everyone, which is
fine.
But I figured, owning abookstore, my clientele would be
my people, people I want totalk to, and that's been the
case, which is absolutely lovely.
Why Joshua Tree?
It just happens to be where Ilive, and at the time that I
(10:34):
opened.
This has changed prettydramatically over the last 10
years, but at the time that Iopened it's a much more
affordable place to be, and so Icould actually take the risk of
opening the bookshop the firstyear, and you know my partner
had found this place.
Oh, you should rent it.
And I went gosh, I have.
I could do this for threemonths as a as a test and see,
(10:55):
and I was.
I was working as a handyman atthe time, fixing properties
around the area, and thebeginning was extremely modest.
I mean, it was a shed out inthe desert and people would come
in and go.
What is this place?
You're out of your mind.
Within a year, a better andbigger location opened up, so I
was able to open up a properstorefront and around that time
(11:16):
I quit my day job and went intobeing a bookseller full time,
and it's the best choice I'veever made in my life.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I love hearing that, and you know what?
I have never heard an indiebookshop owner or bookseller say
oh, I hate my job.
So there's a lot to be said forbeing an indie bookshop owner.
Now I would love to know alittle bit more about the
demographics of Joshua Tree andmaybe the geography for our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's an unusual place .
It's in the high desert, soit's definitely a desert
environment.
You know, temperatures areoften up to 120 degrees, which
is not for everyone, but we'realso up in the mountains so it
can get very cold and it snows.
The store is about five milesaway from the National Park,
which is one of the mostmajestic places in the United
(12:04):
States Just truly gorgeous andit has a very unique ecology,
because we're right where theColorado Desert and the Mojave
Desert meet and whenever youhave two different ecologies
budding up into each other, youdevelop a unique ecology that
may only exist in that area.
So sheer natural beauty.
It's incredible.
(12:24):
As a community, it's aninteresting place.
I think there's a misconceptionfor people that visit here that
it's sort of this arts communityand that there is that,
although it's sort of a veneer,we're also next door to 29 Palms
, which houses one of thelargest military bases in the
United States, and so there's agreat deal of military family
(12:47):
here, which is a transientpopulation because you know
they'll be restationed and moveon, but there's a big military
community, a lot of retirees youknow there's the ATV, you know
rip through the desert in theirtrucks type.
You know, there's the atv, youknow, ripped through the desert
in their trucks, type um it's,it's a, it's a a wide variety of
people that are all sort ofbutt up next to each other and
(13:07):
coexist and and I appreciatethat, you know we're, we're a
few hours away from la, two,three hours away from la, so we
we do get a?
Um, a very large touristpopulation coming through which
is ever changing.
The types of folks that come.
It used to be only Germans camein the summer because they
don't have a desert in Germany.
I guess they want to see one.
(13:28):
So all different types ofpeople come.
It's been much more heavilyvisited over the last couple of
years.
It's increased in popularity, Ithink Americans and people from
all over the world's desire tosee the great national parks.
So it's truly beautiful andit's hard not to be inspired
because I mean, at night we havethis, we're dark skies,
(13:49):
communities, we have thiswonderful view of the stars
which is always inspiring for meas a science fiction writer,
and then our gorgeous andbizarre landscape.
You know, looking out my windowfor years I'm like I have to
write a Western one of thesedays.
You know, it's right there, andlast year I actually had my
first Western published, whichtakes place on San Jacinto
(14:10):
Mountain, which is not far fromhere and is an algoryth for the
changes that have happened inthis town in the decade that
I've been here.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, there are certainly changes everywhere.
Now let's talk about yourpodcast, Simultaneous Times.
I enjoyed the arrangement ofthe show where you have readers
and they could be authors oftheir own story reading their
own story, or they could bereading someone else's short
story.
It is really fun.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit more about
Simultaneous Times and what'sthe handle for the show?
(14:40):
So yeah, Space, little bit moreabout Simultaneous Times and
what's the handle for the show.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So, yeah, space Cowboy Books presents
Simultaneous Times.
You can find it on Spotify,itunes, youtube, basically
anywhere you listen to podcasts,it's always free.
There's no ads, because I don'twant to interrupt the wonderful
stories.
The podcast comes out on the15th of every month.
There's always two sciencefiction stories occasionally
fantasy or horror, but mostlyscience fiction, and the writers
(15:05):
are from all over the globe.
It's very much an internationalproject, which is incredibly
satisfying, especially asAmerica attempts to isolate.
Literature is a globalconversation and that's
important.
As I was saying earlier, theseare how we learn about each
other.
Fiction is how we emotionallyrespond to the world, and that's
important.
As I was saying earlier, theseare how we learn about each
other.
Fiction is how we emotionallyrespond to the world, and that's
(15:25):
so important, and the concernsare various depending on where
you're coming from and theculture you're writing from.
The idea for the podcast it wasalways something I wanted to do
.
We launched it in 2018, so afew years after the store began
because I had to figure out howto run a bookstore first, but it
was born out of my love forradio dramas from the 30s, 40s
(15:48):
and 50s and I was very fortunate.
When I was a child I inheritedmy sister when she moved out,
passed on a little radio, alittle battery-powered radio, to
me, and at my bedtime there wasan AM station that would play
old radio dramas and I fell inlove with the Westerns and the
horror and the detective and thescience fiction and all these
(16:10):
wonderful stories.
And you know, writing is birthedfrom an oral tradition, so it's
a wonderful way to experiencestories and to hear them in
different voices.
So that I'd always wanted to dosomething like a radio drama.
And um, there was a program inthe in the late 70s called mind
(16:31):
webs, which you can find onarchiveorg.
Highly recommend it to all fansof science fiction.
And um, they were thesedramatic readings set to
wonderful music of all varieties, and I thought, you know, we
can do this, we can modelsomething of this.
And initially I thought, oh, Ihave some unpublished stories
and I have friends that makemusic, we'll just cram them
(16:53):
together.
And almost immediately it waslike no, we're going to bring in
writers from everywhere, we'regoing to pay the writers, let's
make this happen.
And that's just grown and grownand I think we're producing our
83rd episode.
So we've done hundreds ofstories at this point and it's
just been a fabulous experience.
And it has also taught me agreat deal about how reading is,
(17:14):
an act of interpretation, whenI'm reading someone else's story
and trying to make sure that Iget the intent right of what the
story really means.
So.
Much of that has to do with thedelivery, and it's been a
wonderful learning experience asa writer and a reader to see
how deeply reading is an act ofinterpretation.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
As is listening.
Now why did you open your ownpublishing company under Space
Cowboy Books?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So that started pretty quickly.
In the beginning, we did aseries of chat books, so we did
I think I don't know 14 or 15chat books, primarily from local
writers, and that was just tosort of get to know the writing
community, to see if there was apotential for sale.
And then also, I mean, I knewnothing about publishing at the
time, so this was something Icould go to the local copy shop
(18:06):
and execute, but it was alwaysin the plan that you know, we'll
sell used books with the ideaof raising money to publish new
books and keep literature aliveand proliferate these wonderful
stories and hopefully getwriters paid, because it's a
notoriously difficult professionto make it in, so always try
and make sure that the writersare taken care of.
And we did our first book in2018, our first paperback, which
(18:31):
was a collection of storiesthat had appeared from the
podcast, but also some thathadn't, so that were appearing
for the first time, and that'sbecome a regular thing.
We've done three paperbacks onthe Simultaneous Times brand, as
well as a bunch of others.
Now it's burst into singleauthor collections some of my
books, other anthologies andthat's a dream that I had my
(18:53):
entire life and I just wasn'treally sure how to navigate it.
But I met a book designer,started learning that process
and it's an ongoing learningprocess.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yes, it is, and it's one of those professions where
you truly do learn by makingmistakes, especially when you're
paying for those mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Absolutely.
It's incredibly expensive, it'sa difficult and long-term
process.
Things often take forever andthen they move so quickly it's
impossible to keep up with.
But it's been an incrediblelearning process because, you
know, as a writer, it really hasallowed me to understand what
publishers are going through,what publishers are looking for,
their needs, the complications,and, I think, no matter what
(19:35):
profession one is in, to know alittle bit about the back end is
incredibly important, and onething that's been neat about it
is as I've learned how all ofthese things work.
I've been able to pass that onand help presses that are just
getting started, authors thatare having difficulty navigating
how to do these things, whetherthey're publishing their own
(19:55):
books or dealing with publishers, and so that's something I've
been able to branch out and helpa lot of other presses with,
because it's a steep learningcurve and there isn't exactly a
great manual for what to do orhow to do it.
There's a lot of mystery in thebusiness and it's a business
like all others that'sconstantly changing and
(20:16):
publishing houses have to adaptto those changes.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Well, I definitely agree with you.
Publishing is constantlychanging.
I've recently gotten intoreading zines.
Are zines still popular in thesci-fi world?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
no-transcript, much a thing, and Space Cowboy does
publish a few chat books a year,which is really fun.
I've got a laser printer.
I can do them right in myoffice.
It's a great and cheap way tospread the work around and do
zine exchanges and things likethat.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And I think the quality of the publishing of
zines has become really good.
I've been reading somecollections of essays through
zines and I really enjoy thesmaller book.
I just love everything aboutthem.
I think they're really great.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And there's a great history of it too.
And you know, with the recentwave of attacks on books and
censorship, you know we may, whoknows?
I hope not, but we may have tomove back towards sort of the
pamphleteering attitude ofpublishing.
You know it's a way to dothings without censorship, to
have something tangibleimmediately, and certainly the
(21:56):
readers that come into the storelove them.
You know, all the windows havestrings with clothespins with
zines hanging on them andthey're quite popular.
There are bookstores I know, inCalifornia and around the rest
of the country that specializein zines, and I think it's very
important to have outlets ofindependent media in that way,
(22:18):
whether it's small press or zinemakers, where it's not big
business that's behind it,places that can move faster than
the big houses and take chancesthat the big houses wouldn't.
And zines are an absolutelywonderful way to do that and
imperative for keepingindependent media alive.
Now, where zines are incrediblyimportant in the science
(22:39):
fiction world is in the fancommunity and there are what are
called APA's Associated PressAmateur Groups, which are
basically zine exchange groups,and these will happen through
the mail, they happen throughemail, depending on whether
they're physical or digitalzines, and that has always been
incredibly important in sciencefiction.
In fact, the first zines as weknow them were born out of the
(23:02):
science fiction community,fanzines starting as far back as
the 30s, and those traditionsare very much alive.
I'm part of an organizationcalled the National Fantasy Fan
Federation, or N3F for short,and that is a zine exchange
bureau that has been runningsince the 30s.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I was lucky enough to interview the great writer
Michael Moorcock, and he is oneof my favorite writers.
I love his book Gloria on Allthe Unfulfilled Queen, and
creating fanzines for fan clubsin London is actually how he
started.
So yeah, zines have a greathistory.
Okay, now I would love to hearabout some of your local sci-fi
(23:43):
authors living in the JoshuaTree area.
Absolutely, but real quick now.
I would love to hear about someof your local sci-fi authors
living in the Joshua Tree area.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Absolutely, but real quick.
I'd like to comment on MichaelMoorcock.
Many editors in the sciencefiction world cut their teeth
first in fanzines.
Michael Moorcock changed whatscience fiction means in the
late 60s, along with JG Ball andand a lot of writers from the
new wave and um.
Quality of editing isimperative, but it's also a
(24:08):
place to learn to be an editor.
Um.
This is not exactly somethingyou can go to school for.
Um.
It's a tricky profession.
A lot of us fall into beingeditors accidentally or or just
through circumstance, but it isis.
I encourage anyone that wantsto do it to absolutely do it.
You know, michael Moorcock is awonderful example, because you
can come from the fanzine worldand end up being one of the most
(24:32):
important fantasists of the20th century.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think Michael Moorcock is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And for our listeners , all the books and websites and
everything that we've talkedabout in the show, I'll make
sure to put in the show notes.
I'll also make sure to put inthe interview.
I didn't know any other sciencefiction writers at the time.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
This was quite a while ago but I was sort of
alone in my fandom.
I didn't know the fancommunities.
I just read these books on myown and didn't really have
anyone to discuss them with orthe writing with.
I didn't really have acommunity yet and when I moved
out here I met some greatfriends that were science
fiction writers.
When I moved out here I metsome great friends that were
(25:26):
science fiction writers.
Brent A Harris, who's a sciencefiction and alternate history
writer, was one of the firstpeople I met out here.
I'm still publishing his work.
He's doing excellent novels.
Some of my favorites and oftensome of the stories will take
place here, which is fun.
The other writer I met rightaway was Mary Collier, who sadly
passed away recently.
It was a great loss because shewas a wonderful lady.
(25:47):
She was in her 80s, her mid-80s, and she was still writing
these fantastic science fictionWestern books that were just
outrageously fun.
So she was one of the firstpeople I met and very much
lament the loss of her.
But for a very small communitythere's more science fiction
writers than one mightanticipate and one very cool
(26:08):
thing that's happened isobviously I've met writers
through the store, of allvariety and all genres.
But I've managed to sort ofthrow an elbow in and convince
literary fiction writers to trytheir hand at science fiction as
well and that has produced someincredible results from, you
know, radical feminist sciencefiction to absurdist science
(26:31):
fiction, to all different kindsof flavors of science fiction,
and that's been exciting.
And there is a wealth ofwriters here in a small town and
I think part of the attractionof writers ending up here is
it's a fairly quiet place.
You're not that far fromcivilization but you're also in
the middle of nowhere and thatbreathing room is really
(26:52):
conducive to the ability towrite.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yes, I agree.
Okay, what are you currentlyreading?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So today I'm reading a book of science fiction
criticism from 1960 called NewMaps of Hell by Kingsley Amos
and I can't say I'm enjoying itthat much.
But I read it because JGBallard had sort of had a feud
with this guy and in a recentlypublished book of Ballard's
nonfiction he was highlycritical of this critic and I
(27:19):
thought, well, let me see, letme see what he's talking about,
and it's from 1960.
So obviously it doesn't includea lot of the history of science
fiction.
It's about the early days.
That's okay.
But my pleasure reading thesedays is I'm trying to read my
way through the entire works ofThomas M Dish, who is one of my
favorite writers.
I believe he got his start inNew World's Magazine, which was
(27:42):
edited by Michael Moorcock.
He is a fabulous writer and thebreadth of his work is just
incredible.
There's a lot of straightscience fiction novels.
He's probably best known forthe Brave Little Toaster, the
children's book.
He wrote the first interactivefiction, what today we'd call a
video game, which is aninteractive text-based novel,
(28:03):
really all over the place.
I just finished his memoir,which was one of the most
pompastic and outrageous thingsI've read in the funniest way.
So I'm often inspired bywriters who seemingly can take
on any subject and just excel atit, and he's one of those a
fabulous poet as well.
So I've been trying to locateand read all of his books.
(28:26):
I've also been reading, tryingto read through all the novels
of Charles Platt, who was theart director and designer of New
World's Magazine.
Again back to Moorcock, who'sbecome a friend recently, and so
I'm trying to read through allof his works, and I like to.
When I fall in love with awriter, I like to try and read
everything that they've written,because with some writers
(28:49):
there's a greater overarchingmythos that you can.
I don't think you can fullyunderstand them until you've
read everything.
And obviously I can be a littlebit obsessive in my reading,
where I will attempt to read allof the output of a writer,
which is not always easy,especially with books that are
long out of print.
But it's been on my readingstack lately.
(29:11):
And a lot of slush.
The podcast just opened up tosubmissions, so I've been
reading a dozen short stories aday, the bulk of my reading.
While I read every day forpleasure, I also read every day
for work.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I know the feeling.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, For most people it's insane to have read
several books worth of materiala day, but that's my profession
and it's what I love to do.
So a lot of slushing right now,and I'm also editing a few
nonfiction books one for mypartner, a book about art, and
one that's a biography of anearly science fiction writer,
(29:47):
which is something I'll bepublishing later in the year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You're a busy man, John Paul.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
I've really enjoyed getting toknow you and your local science
fiction writers.
Thank you so much and keep upthe good work.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, thank you so much, Mandy, and thank you for
what you're doing to supportbooksellers and bookstores.
As most people, I think,understand, it's a perilous
profession and what you're doingto support that is absolutely
wonderful.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You've been listening to my conversation with
Jean-Paul L Garnier, owner ofSpace Cowboy Books Bookstore and
Publishing House and theproducer of Simultaneous Times
Podcast.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
(30:37):
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
(31:00):
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, Mandy
Jackson-Beverly, Theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,Adrian Otterhan, and graphic
design by Frances Barala.
(31:21):
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to episode 285.
John Paul L Garnier is the ownerof Space Cowboy Books bookstore
and publishing house and theproducer of Simultaneous Times.
(00:53):
He is the editor of the SFPAStarline magazine and deputy in
chief of Worlds of If and Galaxymagazines.
In 2024, Jean-Paul'sSimultaneous Times, Volume 3 won
the Laureate Award for BestEditor and for Best Anthology,
which also won the 2024 NextGeneration Indie Book Award and
(01:16):
the Critter's Reader Poll.
In 2023, he also won theLaureate Award for Best Fanzine.
Jean-paul is the host of manyauthor events, as well as the
acclaimed Flash Science FictionNights reading series.
He is the author of many booksof poetry and science fiction
and has been the recipient ofthe Arts Connection Arts
(01:37):
Innovator Grant and the JamesPatterson Holiday Bonus.
His work has also beennominated for the Elgin,
Riesling and Dwarf Star Awards.
Jean-paul has also served as ajuror for the Speculative
Literature Foundation and theOmega Sci-Fi Awards.
Hi, Jean-Paul, and welcome tothe show.
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
My pleasure.
Now let's begin by learningabout you what led you to
becoming a writer and yourinterest in science fiction.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So writing is something I've done since I was
nine years old.
I got an early start writingwith poetry, but it wasn't
always science fiction for me.
In my youth I read mostlyclassic literature.
My parents had been poets, sothat was sort of a push in that
direction, and my father hadbeen a French literature
professor.
So we had this incrediblelibrary in my home and anytime I
(02:28):
had a question my father wouldpoint to the library.
The answers are in there.
So that got me started.
And then in my early 20s or Ithink I was around 19 or 20, a
friend of mine gave me a KurtVonnegut book and that sort of
changed everything.
And then I found Frank Herbert,unaware that he had written
Dune.
I just found a book at a thriftstore and that began me reading
(02:51):
science fiction voraciously asa writer.
I found it particularlyattractive because I mean,
writing is just utter freedom.
You can do absolutely anythingin writing.
It's a place of completefreedom.
So that was a big appeal to me.
And in science fiction inparticular, it's the only field
that you can actually break thelaws of physics and get away
(03:13):
with it.
You can break the laws ofnature, as William Burroughs
would call it.
The natural outlaw those whobreak the laws of nature, and so
that just has an incrediblecompelling freedom to get away
with anything you want, andthat's very attractive as a
writer because it gives us anamazing toolkit of devices for
(03:34):
telling the types of stories wewant to tell.
Of course, all stories areabout people, but to use
fantastical settings and to putpeople into bizarre forms of
durace brings up wonderfulquestions about the human psyche
that we can speculate upon, andso that's been a great
attractor towards sciencefiction, and for the last 25
(03:56):
years it's made up the bulk ofmy reading.
It's not all I read, of course.
All readers read widely, I feel.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, and it's also important for writers to read a
wide variation of nonfiction andfiction.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Absolutely, and you know, nonfiction makes up a
healthy part of my diet.
I also have a rule for myselfthat if I ever catch myself
saying, oh, I'd never read that,then I have to.
I have to read it then, and acouple of times a year I'm
inclined to go pick up somethingthat is of little interest to
me, just to dig beneath thesurface there, and you know,
either that validates anunwarranted opinion.
(04:30):
You know that we have ourbiases and we can either have
them confirmed or, even better,broken, and so I love reading
outside of my scope for thatreason.
And you know, I'm definitelythe type of person that if I'm
not liking a book, I will stillsee it through.
I'll finish, you know, and myreading taste can be masochistic
(04:51):
at times with the types ofbooks that I pick up.
But you know, my profession, mylivelihood and my life is all
about literature and books, andone of the wonderful things
about having a bookshop is therecommendations that customers
give to me.
So while science fiction is ahuge part of my reading diet,
nonfiction is as well.
(05:11):
A lot of poetry and, working asan editor for various magazines
, I read a lot of slush.
That's a huge part of myreading, and that's often work
that's not in its finishedstages.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
For listeners who aren't familiar with the slush
pile, could you explain please?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Sure.
So when you're working for amagazine or publishing house,
slush is the submissions thatcome in, and you know those can
be anything from establishedwriters to writers that are
attempting to get their firstpublication.
Sometimes the work is ready toprint, sometimes it is not and
needs work, or it's just not agood fit for the venue or the
(05:50):
author isn't quite there yet.
So it's work in a lot ofdifferent stages of completion,
and getting to know writersthrough that sort of behind the
scenes process is also extremely, extremely valuable for me as a
writer.
I've learned so much in thatway.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I want to go back to something you said, and that is
how much your parents encouragedyou to read.
I had the same kind of parents.
I saw them reading, my siblingsreading, and it made me want to
read.
I've partnered with a nonprofitcalled Books in Homes USA and
through them I have learned thatit has been proven if a child
(06:26):
has I think it's between like 20and 40 books or something in
their home library, then theiradult numeracy and literacy
rates will be higher than ifthey didn't have a home library.
And I'll add the importance ofreading to your children from
birth, all the way through.
It's so important.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's extremely important and for many reasons.
I mean not only for childhooddevelopment, but reading and
sharing stories is also how welearn to empathize with one
another and learn thedifferences in each other, and
that's just incredibly importanton an emotional level.
So engaging with childhoodliteracy is super important.
It had come out a while ago Ihad talked to this was in the
(07:09):
early days of the bookstore, soabout eight years ago and I
talked to an elementary schoolteacher who told me that their
school didn't have books and Isaid well, that's criminal.
How many books do you want?
I'll build the school a library, and that ended up.
I ended up losing touch withthat person, but that caused me,
so now I had all thesechildren's books, so I started a
(07:29):
free books for kids section inthe bookstore so all kids under
14 can pick out a book on me,and there's a really wonderful
effect to this.
The children are not used tobeing treated like adults.
They're not used to being givensomething by a stranger.
That's positive and there'sgreat enthusiasm for it, and I
find that also with childrenthat are too young to be reading
(07:52):
on their own, they'll ask theirparents to read to them that
night, since they've gotten abook as a gift and that's just a
double win.
And through that it also cameout.
I ended up meeting some localnonprofits that did reading
programs in local schools, and Iteamed up with a local
nonprofit called Spark Growth toactually build libraries in
elementary schools.
(08:12):
Some of these schools hadwonderful libraries in them, but
it was coming out that thechildren didn't have books at
home and that's problematic.
So we built these librarieswhere they could take books and
keep them if they wanted to.
So we built these librarieswhere they could take books and
keep them if they wanted to, andthat was a wonderful success.
But unfortunately more recentlyand I think this is just part of
(08:33):
the attack on literacy ingeneral in this country without
our consent or notifying thenonprofit, those were removed
and destroyed and replaced withbook vending machines.
Now, while on the surface thebook vending machines would seem
like a good idea, apparentlyhow these programs work is that
the kids earn these fake dollarsfor good behavior and they're
(08:54):
able to use those in the vendingmachines.
But the problem with that is itexcludes the students that need
the books the most.
We weren't giving books tochildren and I don't give books
to children based on theirbehavior.
It's based on the need forreading and that has
de-incentivized reading forchildren and that's just
criminal.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, that's heartbreaking.
I'm with you.
Every child needs to be reading.
Let's talk about Space CowboyBooks.
You opened in 2016, and it's anindie bookshop in Joshua Tree,
California.
So why an indie bookshop andwhy in Joshua Tree?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, to answer the first part of that question
first, I have worked in so manyvarieties of fields.
I've been in hospitality, I'vebeen in construction, I've been
in food.
None of these things wereterribly satisfying to me when I
was a house painter all day.
I would just think I wish Icould work with my mind instead
of my meat, and literature hadobviously been a huge part of my
(09:49):
life already, and so I'd alwaysfantasized about having a
bookstore, without knowing thepracticalities of it.
I'd even started collectingbooks to open up a bookshop, but
it seemed out of reach, and itwas appealing for multiple
things.
One, to do what one loves isimperative in life, and two, not
(10:12):
everyone's a reader.
You know everybody eats, so youknow you work at a grocery
store and you deal withabsolutely everyone, which is
fine.
But I figured, owning abookstore, my clientele would be
my people, people I want totalk to, and that's been the
case, which is absolutely lovely.
Why Joshua Tree?
It just happens to be where Ilive, and at the time that I
(10:34):
opened.
This has changed prettydramatically over the last 10
years, but at the time that Iopened it's a much more
affordable place to be, and so Icould actually take the risk of
opening the bookshop the firstyear, and you know my partner
had found this place.
Oh, you should rent it.
And I went gosh, I have.
I could do this for threemonths as a as a test and see,
(10:55):
and I was.
I was working as a handyman atthe time, fixing properties
around the area, and thebeginning was extremely modest.
I mean, it was a shed out inthe desert and people would come
in and go.
What is this place?
You're out of your mind.
Within a year, a better andbigger location opened up, so I
was able to open up a properstorefront and around that time
(11:16):
I quit my day job and went intobeing a bookseller full time,
and it's the best choice I'veever made in my life.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I love hearing that, and you know what?
I have never heard an indiebookshop owner or bookseller say
oh, I hate my job.
So there's a lot to be said forbeing an indie bookshop owner.
Now I would love to know alittle bit more about the
demographics of Joshua Tree andmaybe the geography for our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's an unusual place .
It's in the high desert, soit's definitely a desert
environment.
You know, temperatures areoften up to 120 degrees, which
is not for everyone, but we'realso up in the mountains so it
can get very cold and it snows.
The store is about five milesaway from the National Park,
which is one of the mostmajestic places in the United
(12:04):
States Just truly gorgeous andit has a very unique ecology,
because we're right where theColorado Desert and the Mojave
Desert meet and whenever youhave two different ecologies
budding up into each other, youdevelop a unique ecology that
may only exist in that area.
So sheer natural beauty.
It's incredible.
(12:24):
As a community, it's aninteresting place.
I think there's a misconceptionfor people that visit here that
it's sort of this arts communityand that there is that,
although it's sort of a veneer,we're also next door to 29 Palms
, which houses one of thelargest military bases in the
United States, and so there's agreat deal of military family
(12:47):
here, which is a transientpopulation because you know
they'll be restationed and moveon, but there's a big military
community, a lot of retirees youknow there's the ATV, you know
rip through the desert in theirtrucks type.
You know, there's the atv, youknow, ripped through the desert
in their trucks, type um it's,it's a, it's a a wide variety of
people that are all sort ofbutt up next to each other and
(13:07):
coexist and and I appreciatethat, you know we're, we're a
few hours away from la, two,three hours away from la, so we
we do get a?
Um, a very large touristpopulation coming through which
is ever changing.
The types of folks that come.
It used to be only Germans camein the summer because they
don't have a desert in Germany.
I guess they want to see one.
(13:28):
So all different types ofpeople come.
It's been much more heavilyvisited over the last couple of
years.
It's increased in popularity, Ithink Americans and people from
all over the world's desire tosee the great national parks.
So it's truly beautiful andit's hard not to be inspired
because I mean, at night we havethis, we're dark skies,
(13:49):
communities, we have thiswonderful view of the stars
which is always inspiring for meas a science fiction writer,
and then our gorgeous andbizarre landscape.
You know, looking out my windowfor years I'm like I have to
write a Western one of thesedays.
You know, it's right there, andlast year I actually had my
first Western published, whichtakes place on San Jacinto
(14:10):
Mountain, which is not far fromhere and is an algoryth for the
changes that have happened inthis town in the decade that
I've been here.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, there are certainly changes everywhere.
Now let's talk about yourpodcast, Simultaneous Times.
I enjoyed the arrangement ofthe show where you have readers
and they could be authors oftheir own story reading their
own story, or they could bereading someone else's short
story.
It is really fun.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit more about
Simultaneous Times and what'sthe handle for the show?
(14:40):
So yeah, Space, little bit moreabout Simultaneous Times and
what's the handle for the show.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So, yeah, space Cowboy Books presents
Simultaneous Times.
You can find it on Spotify,itunes, youtube, basically
anywhere you listen to podcasts,it's always free.
There's no ads, because I don'twant to interrupt the wonderful
stories.
The podcast comes out on the15th of every month.
There's always two sciencefiction stories occasionally
fantasy or horror, but mostlyscience fiction, and the writers
(15:05):
are from all over the globe.
It's very much an internationalproject, which is incredibly
satisfying, especially asAmerica attempts to isolate.
Literature is a globalconversation and that's
important.
As I was saying earlier, theseare how we learn about each
other.
Fiction is how we emotionallyrespond to the world, and that's
important.
As I was saying earlier, theseare how we learn about each
other.
Fiction is how we emotionallyrespond to the world, and that's
(15:25):
so important, and the concernsare various depending on where
you're coming from and theculture you're writing from.
The idea for the podcast it wasalways something I wanted to do
.
We launched it in 2018, so afew years after the store began
because I had to figure out howto run a bookstore first, but it
was born out of my love forradio dramas from the 30s, 40s
(15:48):
and 50s and I was very fortunate.
When I was a child I inheritedmy sister when she moved out,
passed on a little radio, alittle battery-powered radio, to
me, and at my bedtime there wasan AM station that would play
old radio dramas and I fell inlove with the Westerns and the
horror and the detective and thescience fiction and all these
(16:10):
wonderful stories.
And you know, writing is birthedfrom an oral tradition, so it's
a wonderful way to experiencestories and to hear them in
different voices.
So that I'd always wanted to dosomething like a radio drama.
And um, there was a program inthe in the late 70s called mind
(16:31):
webs, which you can find onarchiveorg.
Highly recommend it to all fansof science fiction.
And um, they were thesedramatic readings set to
wonderful music of all varieties, and I thought, you know, we
can do this, we can modelsomething of this.
And initially I thought, oh, Ihave some unpublished stories
and I have friends that makemusic, we'll just cram them
(16:53):
together.
And almost immediately it waslike no, we're going to bring in
writers from everywhere, we'regoing to pay the writers, let's
make this happen.
And that's just grown and grownand I think we're producing our
83rd episode.
So we've done hundreds ofstories at this point and it's
just been a fabulous experience.
And it has also taught me agreat deal about how reading is,
(17:14):
an act of interpretation, whenI'm reading someone else's story
and trying to make sure that Iget the intent right of what the
story really means.
So.
Much of that has to do with thedelivery, and it's been a
wonderful learning experience asa writer and a reader to see
how deeply reading is an act ofinterpretation.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
As is listening.
Now why did you open your ownpublishing company under Space
Cowboy Books?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So that started pretty quickly.
In the beginning, we did aseries of chat books, so we did
I think I don't know 14 or 15chat books, primarily from local
writers, and that was just tosort of get to know the writing
community, to see if there was apotential for sale.
And then also, I mean, I knewnothing about publishing at the
time, so this was something Icould go to the local copy shop
(18:06):
and execute, but it was alwaysin the plan that you know, we'll
sell used books with the ideaof raising money to publish new
books and keep literature aliveand proliferate these wonderful
stories and hopefully getwriters paid, because it's a
notoriously difficult professionto make it in, so always try
and make sure that the writersare taken care of.
And we did our first book in2018, our first paperback, which
(18:31):
was a collection of storiesthat had appeared from the
podcast, but also some thathadn't, so that were appearing
for the first time, and that'sbecome a regular thing.
We've done three paperbacks onthe Simultaneous Times brand, as
well as a bunch of others.
Now it's burst into singleauthor collections some of my
books, other anthologies andthat's a dream that I had my
(18:53):
entire life and I just wasn'treally sure how to navigate it.
But I met a book designer,started learning that process
and it's an ongoing learningprocess.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yes, it is, and it's one of those professions where
you truly do learn by makingmistakes, especially when you're
paying for those mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Absolutely.
It's incredibly expensive, it'sa difficult and long-term
process.
Things often take forever andthen they move so quickly it's
impossible to keep up with.
But it's been an incrediblelearning process because, you
know, as a writer, it really hasallowed me to understand what
publishers are going through,what publishers are looking for,
their needs, the complications,and, I think, no matter what
(19:35):
profession one is in, to know alittle bit about the back end is
incredibly important, and onething that's been neat about it
is as I've learned how all ofthese things work.
I've been able to pass that onand help presses that are just
getting started, authors thatare having difficulty navigating
how to do these things, whetherthey're publishing their own
(19:55):
books or dealing with publishers, and so that's something I've
been able to branch out and helpa lot of other presses with,
because it's a steep learningcurve and there isn't exactly a
great manual for what to do orhow to do it.
There's a lot of mystery in thebusiness and it's a business
like all others that'sconstantly changing and
(20:16):
publishing houses have to adaptto those changes.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Well, I definitely agree with you.
Publishing is constantlychanging.
I've recently gotten intoreading zines.
Are zines still popular in thesci-fi world?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
no-transcript, much a thing, and Space Cowboy does
publish a few chat books a year,which is really fun.
I've got a laser printer.
I can do them right in myoffice.
It's a great and cheap way tospread the work around and do
zine exchanges and things likethat.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And I think the quality of the publishing of
zines has become really good.
I've been reading somecollections of essays through
zines and I really enjoy thesmaller book.
I just love everything aboutthem.
I think they're really great.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And there's a great history of it too.
And you know, with the recentwave of attacks on books and
censorship, you know we may, whoknows?
I hope not, but we may have tomove back towards sort of the
pamphleteering attitude ofpublishing.
You know it's a way to dothings without censorship, to
have something tangibleimmediately, and certainly the
(21:56):
readers that come into the storelove them.
You know, all the windows havestrings with clothespins with
zines hanging on them andthey're quite popular.
There are bookstores I know, inCalifornia and around the rest
of the country that specializein zines, and I think it's very
important to have outlets ofindependent media in that way,
(22:18):
whether it's small press or zinemakers, where it's not big
business that's behind it,places that can move faster than
the big houses and take chancesthat the big houses wouldn't.
And zines are an absolutelywonderful way to do that and
imperative for keepingindependent media alive.
Now, where zines are incrediblyimportant in the science
(22:39):
fiction world is in the fancommunity and there are what are
called APA's Associated PressAmateur Groups, which are
basically zine exchange groups,and these will happen through
the mail, they happen throughemail, depending on whether
they're physical or digitalzines, and that has always been
incredibly important in sciencefiction.
In fact, the first zines as weknow them were born out of the
(23:02):
science fiction community,fanzines starting as far back as
the 30s, and those traditionsare very much alive.
I'm part of an organizationcalled the National Fantasy Fan
Federation, or N3F for short,and that is a zine exchange
bureau that has been runningsince the 30s.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I was lucky enough to interview the great writer
Michael Moorcock, and he is oneof my favorite writers.
I love his book Gloria on Allthe Unfulfilled Queen, and
creating fanzines for fan clubsin London is actually how he
started.
So yeah, zines have a greathistory.
Okay, now I would love to hearabout some of your local sci-fi
(23:43):
authors living in the JoshuaTree area.
Absolutely, but real quick now.
I would love to hear about someof your local sci-fi authors
living in the Joshua Tree area.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Absolutely, but real quick.
I'd like to comment on MichaelMoorcock.
Many editors in the sciencefiction world cut their teeth
first in fanzines.
Michael Moorcock changed whatscience fiction means in the
late 60s, along with JG Ball andand a lot of writers from the
new wave and um.
Quality of editing isimperative, but it's also a
(24:08):
place to learn to be an editor.
Um.
This is not exactly somethingyou can go to school for.
Um.
It's a tricky profession.
A lot of us fall into beingeditors accidentally or or just
through circumstance, but it isis.
I encourage anyone that wantsto do it to absolutely do it.
You know, michael Moorcock is awonderful example, because you
can come from the fanzine worldand end up being one of the most
(24:32):
important fantasists of the20th century.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think Michael Moorcock is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And for our listeners , all the books and websites and
everything that we've talkedabout in the show, I'll make
sure to put in the show notes.
I'll also make sure to put inthe interview.
I didn't know any other sciencefiction writers at the time.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
This was quite a while ago but I was sort of
alone in my fandom.
I didn't know the fancommunities.
I just read these books on myown and didn't really have
anyone to discuss them with orthe writing with.
I didn't really have acommunity yet and when I moved
out here I met some greatfriends that were science
fiction writers.
When I moved out here I metsome great friends that were
(25:26):
science fiction writers.
Brent A Harris, who's a sciencefiction and alternate history
writer, was one of the firstpeople I met out here.
I'm still publishing his work.
He's doing excellent novels.
Some of my favorites and oftensome of the stories will take
place here, which is fun.
The other writer I met rightaway was Mary Collier, who sadly
passed away recently.
It was a great loss because shewas a wonderful lady.
(25:47):
She was in her 80s, her mid-80s, and she was still writing
these fantastic science fictionWestern books that were just
outrageously fun.
So she was one of the firstpeople I met and very much
lament the loss of her.
But for a very small communitythere's more science fiction
writers than one mightanticipate and one very cool
(26:08):
thing that's happened isobviously I've met writers
through the store, of allvariety and all genres.
But I've managed to sort ofthrow an elbow in and convince
literary fiction writers to trytheir hand at science fiction as
well and that has produced someincredible results from, you
know, radical feminist sciencefiction to absurdist science
(26:31):
fiction, to all different kindsof flavors of science fiction,
and that's been exciting.
And there is a wealth ofwriters here in a small town and
I think part of the attractionof writers ending up here is
it's a fairly quiet place.
You're not that far fromcivilization but you're also in
the middle of nowhere and thatbreathing room is really
(26:52):
conducive to the ability towrite.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yes, I agree.
Okay, what are you currentlyreading?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So today I'm reading a book of science fiction
criticism from 1960 called NewMaps of Hell by Kingsley Amos
and I can't say I'm enjoying itthat much.
But I read it because JGBallard had sort of had a feud
with this guy and in a recentlypublished book of Ballard's
nonfiction he was highlycritical of this critic and I
(27:19):
thought, well, let me see, letme see what he's talking about,
and it's from 1960.
So obviously it doesn't includea lot of the history of science
fiction.
It's about the early days.
That's okay.
But my pleasure reading thesedays is I'm trying to read my
way through the entire works ofThomas M Dish, who is one of my
favorite writers.
I believe he got his start inNew World's Magazine, which was
(27:42):
edited by Michael Moorcock.
He is a fabulous writer and thebreadth of his work is just
incredible.
There's a lot of straightscience fiction novels.
He's probably best known forthe Brave Little Toaster, the
children's book.
He wrote the first interactivefiction, what today we'd call a
video game, which is aninteractive text-based novel,
(28:03):
really all over the place.
I just finished his memoir,which was one of the most
pompastic and outrageous thingsI've read in the funniest way.
So I'm often inspired bywriters who seemingly can take
on any subject and just excel atit, and he's one of those a
fabulous poet as well.
So I've been trying to locateand read all of his books.
(28:26):
I've also been reading, tryingto read through all the novels
of Charles Platt, who was theart director and designer of New
World's Magazine.
Again back to Moorcock, who'sbecome a friend recently, and so
I'm trying to read through allof his works, and I like to.
When I fall in love with awriter, I like to try and read
everything that they've written,because with some writers
(28:49):
there's a greater overarchingmythos that you can.
I don't think you can fullyunderstand them until you've
read everything.
And obviously I can be a littlebit obsessive in my reading,
where I will attempt to read allof the output of a writer,
which is not always easy,especially with books that are
long out of print.
But it's been on my readingstack lately.
(29:11):
And a lot of slush.
The podcast just opened up tosubmissions, so I've been
reading a dozen short stories aday, the bulk of my reading.
While I read every day forpleasure, I also read every day
for work.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I know the feeling.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, For most people it's insane to have read
several books worth of materiala day, but that's my profession
and it's what I love to do.
So a lot of slushing right now,and I'm also editing a few
nonfiction books one for mypartner, a book about art, and
one that's a biography of anearly science fiction writer,
(29:47):
which is something I'll bepublishing later in the year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You're a busy man, John Paul.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
I've really enjoyed getting toknow you and your local science
fiction writers.
Thank you so much and keep upthe good work.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, thank you so much, Mandy, and thank you for
what you're doing to supportbooksellers and bookstores.
As most people, I think,understand, it's a perilous
profession and what you're doingto support that is absolutely
wonderful.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You've been listening to my conversation with
Jean-Paul L Garnier, owner ofSpace Cowboy Books Bookstore and
Publishing House and theproducer of Simultaneous Times
Podcast.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
(30:37):
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
(31:00):
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, Mandy
Jackson-Beverly, Theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,Adrian Otterhan, and graphic
design by Frances Barala.
(31:21):
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
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