October 14, 2024 • 30 mins
What drives a paralegal to switch gears and pen a rom-com novel? Discover the inspiring journey of Danica Nava, an enrolled citizen of the Chickasaw Nation, as she shares her transition from the corporate world to the literary scene. We delve into her academic achievements, the barriers she overcame as a first-generation college graduate, and the significant impact of her Indigenous Native American identity on her career and personal life. This compelling conversation sheds light on her perseverance, the critical role of mentorship in her journey, and the real-life experiences that influenced her debut novel, The Truth According to Ember.
In this episode, Danica opens up about the moment she decided to pursue her passion for writing despite a demanding schedule. She provides an inside look at her creative process, the importance of representation in literature, and the inspiration behind her characters, Ember and Danuwoa. The discussion navigates through the complexities of Indigenous identity, generational trauma, and societal pressures, all while maintaining a humorous and thought-provoking narrative. Tune in to hear about Danica's upcoming projects and how she continues to blend comedy with poignant storytelling in her exploration of Indigenous themes in contemporary romance.
The Truth According to Ember, Danica Nava
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
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(00:34):
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(01:17):
You're listening to episode 271.
Danica Narva is an enrolledcitizen of the Chickasaw Nation
and works as an executiveassistant in the tech industry.
She has her MBA from USCMarshall School of Business and
currently lives in SouthernCalifornia with her husband and
(01:39):
daughter.
The Truth According to Ember isher debut novel.
Here's a short synopsis of thestory.
Ember Lee Cardinal has notalways been a liar Well, not for
anything that counted at least.
But her job search is not goingwell, and when her resume is
rejected for the 37th time, shetakes matters into her own hands
(02:00):
.
She gets creative, listing herqualifications and answers the
ethnicity question onapplications with a lie, a
half-lie.
Technically, no one wantedNative American Ember, but White
Ember has just landed her dreamaccounting job on Park Avenue,
oklahoma.
That is Hi, danica, and welcometo the show.
(02:21):
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Hi, mandy, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For our listeners.
Danica and I met when I wasworking at Bart's Books.
I remember you came into thebookshop and you were looking
for kind of old-time romancepaperbacks, if I remember
correctly.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, specifically looking for Alicia Thompson's
With Love from Cold World.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You helped me find it and I remember we got talking
and you said you had a new bookcoming out.
And here we are.
So let's begin by learningabout you and what led you to
study business administrationand then write the Truth
According to Ember.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, so I work in corporate America.
I have for years.
Well, I started as like anoffice admin while I was getting
my paralegal certificate.
Then I became a paralegal andthen I was mentored by my
professor at Oxnard CommunityCollege.
He was a district attorney andhe said you know, you should
really go to law school.
(03:16):
You should finish yourundergrad, go to law school so
you have a 4.0.
He's like you're very bright.
He's like why didn't youconsider that?
And I just had never.
I wasn't raised, taught that Icould do those things, and even
in school they don't teach youhow to apply for college.
I didn't have consistentinternet access, so it wasn't
like I was at home and I couldjust apply to colleges.
(03:38):
And then it costs money and noone told you that you could get
fee waivers.
So if you don't know thosethings and you are, and I'm a
first generation collegegraduate, so I'm the first
person in my family to go tocollege and graduate so if
you're not raised in that, thenyou don't know and that's the
biggest barrier to entry.
So just having somebody believein me and telling me I could do
(03:58):
that inspired me.
I mean, I remember like tearingup that, like this man, who was
a district attorney of SantaBarbara, told me I was bright
and I was one of the brighteststudents he ever had.
So he wrote me this wonderfulletter of recommendation.
So I finished all my generaleducation credits at three
different community colleges inthe area and then I transferred
(04:19):
to California LutheranUniversity.
But again it wasn't like I wasapplying different places and
trying to see where I could go.
It was how can I go to schoolfor the cheapest while keeping
my job as a paralegal?
And then what had more eveningclasses?
And so there was a professional, a business professionals
program, and I was actually Iwas considered too young for it.
(04:40):
So I had to write a letter andI had to get a letter from my
employer and then also anotherletter from my professor saying
I could do as I've been doing it.
So then they made the exceptionand I was accepted at 22 in the
professionals program and it'saccelerated.
And then I took even morecredits.
So I was just working in schooljust because I wanted to catch
(05:04):
up, because I had been out ofhigh school for a while and I
felt behind like a late bloomer.
So I finished my undergrad andI was burnt out.
Yeah, I'm not surprised I didso much so fast because I was
like I have to graduate magnacum laude, I need this, I'm
going to apply to Pepper, needthis, I'm going to apply to
(05:25):
Pepperdine.
I'm going to go to these lawschools and I still have the
LSAT training books and Icouldn't get any more hours as a
paralegal.
So then I remember just moviesand books that had executive
assistant and so I Googled likewhat's an executive assistant?
What do they do?
And the skills as a paralegalreally translated well.
And so I started applying forthose positions and once I
(05:49):
graduated with my degree, theonly reason I was able to afford
to go to college and go andfinish was because the Chickasaw
Nation helped me pay forcollege with grants, and so it
was very important to me, as Iwas applying to these jobs, that
these employers knew that I wasa Chickasaw woman doing this.
But then I was getting nointerviews.
So then I was starting to getdesperate because it's very
(06:11):
expensive in Southern Californiaand so I didn't change anything
on my resume.
I just started checkingCaucasian only on the ethnicity
question on these onlineapplications, and as I was doing
that, I started getting a bunchof interviews and then I was
hired and worked for thisbillionaire who owned all these
different companies, and I waslooking specifically for his
holding company that hired me.
I started learning a lot forthat eagle eye view of
(06:33):
businesses.
It was very interesting.
And then my husband he was myfiance at the time he got a job
in Chicago, so he moved thereand I had to start it all over
again.
I was trying to get anexecutive assistant job and I
was like, okay, I am American,indian, alaska, native.
That's the box you check ifyou're Native American.
Nothing.
So same resume.
I changed nothing.
(06:54):
I was checking Caucasian boom,like getting interviews for huge
corporations that you've heardof in the news, everything
billion dollar, fortune 500companies.
I was like what the heck likeit's?
It just seems fishy.
But you know, is it acoincidence?
I don't know, is it causationcorrelation editor?
But it was happening a lot tome and so, um, I always had that
(07:17):
in the back of my head.
And even when I moved back tolos angeles from chicago, same
thing.
Um, but it was my ceo inchicago.
He kept bringing it up to me.
He was just like, have youconsidered getting an MBA?
Because I would be in meetingswith him, taking minutes and
participating, and I have acommunications degree and so he
really liked the way I wrote hisvoice and the corporate voice.
(07:40):
And then I was also supportingthe chief strategy officer, so I
was learning about businessstrategy too, and I was like a
sponge, because it's like I'mhere, I want to learn, I want to
be better, and I was reallyworking these jobs as if I was
still a student and I had to getan A plus.
So I was just constantlyworking overtime and the CEO
he's just like you need to getan MBA.
(08:00):
And that was like my first yearfor him.
And I was like my first yearfor him and I was like no, no,
no, no, if I'm going to getgraduate school, it'd be law
school.
That was my dream.
Or I'd get an MFA inscreenwriting because I really
love writing.
And he was just like no, no, no, get an MBA.
So then the pandemic happenedand he said now's the time.
I'm going to have the companypay for it.
If you get your MBA, startapplying.
(08:20):
So we had this vice president ofdata analytics name was emil.
I loved him.
I always loved talking to him,and he mentioned that his son
went to harvard and he went tonorthwestern but he also had a
master's in like analytics.
Uh, so I just had myapplication materials and the
questions and the schools I wastargeting, and he looked at my
resume.
He helped, was like this iswhat they're looking for.
(08:43):
And so he just like helped me merefine specific points that
they're looking for incandidates.
And he was like why are youapplying to these schools?
Why wouldn't you be applyingfor Booth?
He's like you could get intoChicago Booth.
And I was like I can't get intoBooth, I'm not smart enough.
That's what people who aresmarter than me do.
And he's just like damn it, I'mlooking at your transcript.
He's like this, you're the, youknow, and I guess that's just
(09:05):
what we're taught to believe orat least me as a woman, as a
native woman, that I am not onpar with other people.
Like that's like I just havethis small life and I'm not good
enough.
He just really mentored me andso I said I was targeting USC
because they have the onlineprogram and you have a residency
portion and the classes are onthe evening and that was my
(09:28):
dream school and they had aForte fellowship scholarship,
whereas the other online schoolsdidn't.
I got into UC Davis first andthey gave me a nothing
scholarship and I was just likeno.
They came back to me with alarger one later, but I got into
USC very quickly, gave me thescholarship and it just felt
like they really aligned withwhat I was going for.
(09:51):
I wanted to pivot from theexecutive assistant to chief of
staff role.
I really like having the bird'seye view in a business and just
learning all the componentsinstead of being siloed into one
area.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So after all of this, do you still work for the same
company?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
No.
So that CEO was let go.
And then the new CEO I waspregnant, they couldn't get rid
of me, kept me on but said theyweren't going to pay for my
degree and I'd already paid thedeposit.
And so that was heartbreakingbecause it was like this is a
very expensive school.
It's a top 20 business school.
But not only that the onlineprogram was number one in the
(10:29):
country for several years.
It fluctuates between the oneand two position, so that was
heartbreaking for me.
And then I found out I waspregnant and my husband was like
, well, what if we put it off?
And I said, no, I worked sohard, like I worked for months
to get in these programs, likeI'm doing it and I did.
It was wild, it was a wild rideto do that with a new baby
(10:50):
working full time.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, I bet it was hard, yeah, and how long after
this did you start writing yourbook?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I started Truth According to Amber in 2020.
But I just couldn't get itright.
I was entering the wrong spot.
It was too late and I triedwriting as a screenplay for a
feature and then also for aminiseries, because I love the
side characters.
But it just wasn't right.
And it wasn't until my baby wasfour months old it was May 1st.
(11:17):
I had to work in the office.
I had a different job at thispoint in Northern California and
I was forced to go into theoffice every day.
So I came home to hold my baby,eat dinner, hand her back to my
husband, sit in class for twohours and then I would do
homework.
And so it was 8 PM after Ifinished class.
I was ahead on my homework andso I was like you know, I'm
going to wash my hair.
I haven't done that in a while.
So I washed my hair and I cameout and I just like had this
(11:41):
overwhelming feeling that if Ididn't do something, my life
would never change.
My dream is to be a writer.
I love telling stories and Ihave had this idea.
I said you know, I'm NativeAmerican.
I've never seen a NativeAmerican in a rom-com before
this idea.
I said I'm Native American.
I've never seen a NativeAmerican in a rom-com before and
I just know that Ember andDonna Weather, the accountant
(12:01):
and the IT guy and I just said Iknow the story is special and I
know a publisher would want it.
And so the last thing I wantedto do was go sit back in that
chair, but because usually Iwould maybe watch an episode of
TV crash and do it all overagain the next day.
But I went back to that chair,opened my laptop and the first
chapter just flew out of me2,500 words.
Well, the muse waits for no one.
Yeah, the muse is elusive.
(12:22):
The muse they'll help you starta book or write certain scenes,
but it will not help you finisha book.
You really have to be dedicatedand have that discipline to
finish a book.
But just the magic was thereand the voice Finally.
It was because I asked how didEmber get the job?
And it was when I asked myselfthat I put so much of myself in
there.
Like, oh my gosh, she's inOklahoma, she's filling out
(12:44):
these applications, she wantsthese jobs and that box.
What if she clicked Caucasianand she got the job and she
wasn't quite qualified for it?
What would that look like, andit just was the premise for a
rom-com?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, you've given us your backstory and a bit of a
synopsis of the book the TruthAccording to Ember and an
outline of Ember and Donoah'spersonalities, but what was it
that actually drew them together?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know I love that Donoah is the nice guy.
He's a cinnamon roll and I feellike in romance we see a lot of
like the alpha guy which couldbe really hot and great, but I
really wanted the nice guy to bethe one to be a foil for her,
because she's insecure and she'slying and he sees through that
and they're both really funny.
They just get each other withtheir wit and so I think
(13:31):
Donawe's steadiness and hiskindness and compassion and
patience really help Ember inher anxious moments of wanting
to be more than she is.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And in the story Ember explains quote Dad was
white and my mom was a nativemix of Chickasaw and Choctaw.
That was just how it was.
Now we were all a mix of stuff.
End quote.
Do you feel this is a commonthought, a common feeling among
Indigenous people?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I would never presume to speak on behalf of every
Indigenous person, because wehave similarities but we all
have different experiences.
What I was really getting outwith Amber and her story, and
even for me, is that I'm a mixof settler ancestry.
Ember and her story, and evenfor me is that, you know, I'm a
mix of settler ancestry, mexicanancestry, mexican indigenous
(14:21):
ancestry, and then NorthAmerican Chickasaw ancestry, and
in Oklahoma, specificallybecause of the removal of the
five tribes and then the tribesthat were already Plains tribes
living in Oklahoma, there's alot of indigenous culture, and
then you have the settlers andthe European immigrants and
everything, and so everybodythat I know tends to be one or
(14:44):
more native tribe withinOklahoma and with settler
ancestry which is more like theFrench, canadian, scottish,
irish.
It was very common, especiallyfor the Chickasaw, cherokee,
choctaw tribes that was how theCherokee princess myth
manifested itself was theseScottish traders would come and
(15:05):
they would marry indigenouswomen and they would write back
because they had the clanstructure, and so they would say
oh, I married the chief'sdaughter, I married this native
princess, and then the mythbecame bigger than that.
But America is this melting potof different cultures and so
for Ember, she very much is amix, but she is Chickasaw, like
(15:28):
I am Chickasaw.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And do you feel that, because of the way the
Indigenous people were treated,that there is a certain amount
of inherited suffering in yourgeneration?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I do believe that we do feel that we have
generational trauma that weinherit, and then not only that,
when poverty is involved andlack of education, and then you
have abuse and addiction, likein my family, the generational
cursesses.
They just get passed on becausethere's no tools to you know,
escape that.
(15:58):
And then also we have this myththat America sells us this
capitalist dream or you have tobe more than you are you, you
are your job title, you need thenice car, the house, the salary
, you need the clothes, the newhandbag, etc.
And so it's an.
It's a never ending cycle of Ihave to be better, I have to be
(16:18):
better.
It was like not until I turned20.
And I really was exploring myheritage, like, oh, I grew up
always knowing I was Chickasawbut and I would go to Oklahoma
to visit my grandpa and familyout there.
But I grew up in California,which is very much removed from
Oklahoma, and my mom, she put mein.
We had this program calledIndian education, what it was
called here, in the schools,from elementary to high school,
(16:42):
and so I got to learn abouttribes all over, like you know,
all the federally recognizedtribes, and in the class were
other Native American studentsand so that was really awesome.
They had that community and Igot to learn.
But on the offhand I would gettold you're not Native American,
I've never heard of Chickasaw,because where we are, you know
(17:05):
Chumash, these are Chumash landsand so people have heard of
Chumash or in the movies,comanche, apache those are the
more popular ones.
So because they'd never heardof Chickasaw, it was all of a
sudden.
You're not Native American.
And I remember in high schoolwe're learning about the five
civilized tribes.
I'm using quotes here.
We don't refer to ourselves asfive civilized tribes.
If you have a civilization atall, especially our Native, know
(17:26):
our new civilizations, like, ofcourse, we're civilized and
much cleaner than the Europeancolonizers who came.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Just getting back to the classes you were talking
about, were you taught thoseclasses by indigenous people In?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
the Indian education program.
Yes, but like US history andthings you know, I just had
normal teachers and we werelearning and it's like that's
when I finally saw Chickasaw ina textbook and I said I'm
Chickasaw and my teacher justlooked at me and was like how
much Indian blood are you?
And I was confronted with thatmy whole life of you know I need
to quantify the bloodpercentage in order for someone
(18:02):
to acknowledge me, even thoughthey don't understand what that
means or what tribal citizenshipand enrollment mean in a
community.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that takes us right back to what you were
talking about earlier.
Which box do you checkregarding your ethnicity?
And when you did checkChickasaw, you didn't get the
job.
You didn't even get aninterview.
It just seems so wrong the job.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You didn't even get an interview.
It just seems so wrong it is.
I don't mention any blood.
I am Chickasaw and they don'tsee me differently within my
tribe when I go back there.
I brought my husband there andI brought my daughter last year.
She's now two and a half, butshe was 15, 16 months when I
took her.
The sense of community and lovethat you go there and it's not
somebody is more than it's weare all a part of.
(18:50):
And like sitting in theamphitheater listening to our
governor speak and my daughtershe just like wanted to run
around and there's this womanwho was sitting by herself.
She was older and she just waslike come here, baby.
And she just put her on her lapand Izzy was so content just
sitting there and it was justthis.
And she just put her on her lapand Izzy was so content just
sitting there and it was justthis, this the community right
(19:15):
Of just love.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think the word community says it all.
We just feel comfortable whenwe are around people who
understand us and people who weunderstand.
I feel that when I go back toAustralia, and even when I go to
the UK or Ireland, I do feelthat sense of sameness.
While I was reading your novel,it encouraged me to learn more
about the Chickasaw Nation and Ifound touches of Ember's story,
(19:38):
from the programs and servicesavailable to Native Americans to
the beauty of Oklahoma and theMuscogeean language, fascinating
.
Were you raised learning aboutyour ancestors' history, and do
you instill this within yourdaughter's life?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
She's two and a half but she does love Oklahoma.
So I had to go on tour and Ioriginally wanted to bring her
with me but the stops there wasjust too much and it would have
been a lot for a two-year-old.
So she got to the tail end inlos angeles, meet me there.
But she will say baby, gooklahoma, baby go oklahoma.
Now because she loved going tooklahoma last october and we had
(20:16):
so much fun and we have likephotos and videos and she's got
her oklahoma dress and theoklahoma shirt and she she loves
it because I did enroll her andso she got her welcome package
and now they have flashcards tostart learning the language and
they have immersion programs now.
But it's just, we're so betterconnected now, especially with
the internet.
(20:37):
I didn't have access to thatgrowing up and I would hear
stories of my great grandma andhow she lived in a dugout in
Oklahoma and the hardships thereand how my family would move
between Oklahoma and Californiabecause there were no jobs in
(20:59):
Oklahoma.
So they would come out toCalifornia make some money, save
some money, go back and keepbuilding their house out there,
and that's the story of a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
All wonderful stories to pass on to your daughter,
danica.
I'd love to hear yourpublishing story, from finishing
the manuscript for the TruthAccording to Amber, to finding
your agent and landing apublishing deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, I started writing it
May 1st 2022, this iteration ofit and I finished and I revised
it twice and got it query readyin six months.
So it was like a fever dream ofjust.
I had to get it out.
My goal was to start queryingagents in November of 2022 for
(21:42):
Native American Heritage Month,because I knew that agents would
be a little bit more aware ofIndigenous stories.
And I was right, and so I hadquite a few agents offer and I
picked mine, Laura Bradford.
We just really aligned with thevision of the story and how we
saw it.
We did one pass together, likejust cleaning things up, and
(22:03):
then she submitted it and ittook a couple months, but then
it went to auction.
We had five houses interested.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Oh, my goodness, danica, that is fabulous, you
know.
It just made me think aboutsomething.
Over the past four years, Ithink, I've interviewed about I
don't know 170 independentbookshop owners and booksellers,
and probably about the samenumber of authors, and the one
thing that we always come backto is how important it is for
anyone who walks into a libraryor a bookshop to see themselves
(22:35):
on the bookshelves in that storeor in that library, to know
that they can read aboutthemselves and by that I mean,
you know, if they're in theLGBTQ plus community, any
ethnicity, or if anyone has adisability of any kind.
To be able to see yourselfreflected is so important, and
(22:57):
also for the books to have beenwritten by someone like you, and
you've definitely done this.
In fact, I would say you'veopened a door for Indigenous
rom-coms.
It's exciting and I thinkbecause we had so many more
people reading during thepandemic.
Readers wanted diverse bookswritten by diverse authors and
(23:18):
whereas it used to be all whitepeople straight white people
working in publishing companies,that has gradually changed now,
so we have much more diversitywithin the publishing community,
and that definitely needed tohappen.
I think in many ways, thepandemic helped us all well, it
made us all slow down and tolook around and see what was
(23:40):
happening within the publishingindustry.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I mean there were the paper shortages, but
the pandemic and book talk, withinvigorating the market, with
new readers, of people who hadtime now to do things, and
talking about books and romanceand romance is a billion dollar
industry that's growing and itwas said that the only Native
American representation were thebodice rippers of the 90s and
(24:06):
early 2000s.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Let's talk about Ember.
Are you at all like her in thatyou are cautious about
accepting help from others?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I do believe.
So I'm not a liar.
That is a pet peeve of mine.
I'm like a human lie detector.
I'm almost honest to a fault,because integrity is so
important to me.
It's a core, it's a pillar ofmy character, but it made for an
interesting character to write.
I'm the oldest daughter in myfamily, first generation college
student, and I grew up withouta lot of opportunity in really
(24:37):
rough conditions and because ofthat it has made me a harder
person.
Harder on myself.
I need to excel.
I need to achieve X, y and Z.
Harder person harder on myselfI need to excel.
I need to achieve X, y and Z.
And now that I have my owndaughter, it's like I never want
her to be without utilities.
Growing up with utilities,getting shut off and not having
any food in the pantry, in thefridge was difficult for me and
(25:00):
it scares me.
Now I have this child of mineand she needs to have.
She needs to have more than Idid and more love, more
acceptance and also a roof overher head and security.
And so my husband and I we'vesaved for five years to try to
get a house and thankfully thisbook deal was additional income
(25:22):
and got us approved for a homeloan.
Without it we still wouldn'thave qualified income and got us
approved for a home loan.
Without it we still wouldn'thave qualified.
And so I'm so blessed that Icould give my daughter the
stability that she will alwayshave a home.
And I'm getting emotionalbecause I'm a fighter like Ember
and I did put so much.
It's a fictional story.
I am not Ember, but I put somuch of myself layered
(25:45):
throughout there.
Subconsciously I didn't evenrealize I was doing it, and I do
believe that themes andsymbolism.
Readers can pick up on thatafter a book is finished.
But as I'm writing it, I'm justtrying to get these characters
to kiss.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, that's cute.
Yeah, no, I totally understand.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I'm like why is she not answering this phone call?
Oh, oh, it's her brother's thejail.
Oh, you know it's those things,because I grew up, you know,
unfortunately, with my fathergoing to jail quite a bit and
watching him get arrested, andthat is a norm for me.
And many people, so many people, are incarcerated.
That is a problem in thiscountry, especially the
for-profit prisons.
So it just made sense and itwasn't like I was writing this
(26:25):
book on a soapbox of like I'mgoing to talk about these things
in this way and use a romanticcomedy to do it.
It was well, the character work.
Why is this girl in thisposition?
How come she didn't have X, yand Z?
Why was she living with Randy?
What happened with her family?
And it's just what I know.
(26:45):
It's how a lot of my friendswere raised.
I think romance is.
It's an aspirational genre.
That's why rom coms you see alot of them where the characters
are just wealthy and abillionaire comes and, oh no,
her cupcake business is failing.
But she inherited this housefrom her family member and she's
broke.
But she can afford to renovatethe house and not work Like I
(27:08):
grew up, where if you're broke,you've got three jobs and you
have roommates who you don'tlove.
You know they're weird, but youneed a roof over your head and
rent's expensive and even foodgroceries are so expensive.
So I think that point of viewis so necessary and I just know
it's connecting readers.
I get messages every day fromreaders, indigenous and
(27:31):
non-Indigenous, who seethemselves reflected in Ember.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
What do you enjoy most about writing and what do
you hope readers will take awayafter reading the Truth
According to Ember?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I just love.
I love comedy.
I consider myself a comedywriter first and foremost, so
anytime I can get some jokes inthere physical humor, and like a
really funny set piece like abowling alley and have
shenanigans happen, like that tome is, yes, I wrote this for
Indigenous readers, but I wroteit in a way that's accessible
for all, and so while there arejokes that only people in Indian
country will appreciate, thereare even more jokes that anybody
, because it's universally funny.
So I hope people come to itjust for wanting to enjoy a
(28:22):
great story and then I hope theyleave with a sense of community
and belonging, what that means.
How can you help the community?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
See everything gets back to community.
I love it.
Okay, what are you currentlyreading?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Well, I'm on deadline so I'm trying not to read too
much, but I did get asked toblurb Nina Kumar's second book,
flirting with Disaster.
I'm so excited for that.
I loved her debut.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Say You'll Be Mine, it's lovely to know you have
another book on the way.
Was book two part of yourpublishing deal?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yes, it was a two book deal, so the second book is
coming next summer in July,back in Oklahoma, another
Indigenous romcom Danica, thankyou so much for being a guest on
the show and for writing theTruth According to Ember.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
It's a fun read that gives the reader something to
think about too.
Well done.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well, thank you so much, Mindy.
I hope you have a great day.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
You've been listening to my conversation with Danica
Narva about her new novel, theTruth According to Ember.
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(01:17):
You're listening to episode 271.
Danica Narva is an enrolledcitizen of the Chickasaw Nation
and works as an executiveassistant in the tech industry.
She has her MBA from USCMarshall School of Business and
currently lives in SouthernCalifornia with her husband and
(01:39):
daughter.
The Truth According to Ember isher debut novel.
Here's a short synopsis of thestory.
Ember Lee Cardinal has notalways been a liar Well, not for
anything that counted at least.
But her job search is not goingwell, and when her resume is
rejected for the 37th time, shetakes matters into her own hands
(02:00):
.
She gets creative, listing herqualifications and answers the
ethnicity question onapplications with a lie, a
half-lie.
Technically, no one wantedNative American Ember, but White
Ember has just landed her dreamaccounting job on Park Avenue,
oklahoma.
That is Hi, danica, and welcometo the show.
(02:21):
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Hi, mandy, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For our listeners.
Danica and I met when I wasworking at Bart's Books.
I remember you came into thebookshop and you were looking
for kind of old-time romancepaperbacks, if I remember
correctly.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, specifically looking for Alicia Thompson's
With Love from Cold World.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You helped me find it and I remember we got talking
and you said you had a new bookcoming out.
And here we are.
So let's begin by learningabout you and what led you to
study business administrationand then write the Truth
According to Ember.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, so I work in corporate America.
I have for years.
Well, I started as like anoffice admin while I was getting
my paralegal certificate.
Then I became a paralegal andthen I was mentored by my
professor at Oxnard CommunityCollege.
He was a district attorney andhe said you know, you should
really go to law school.
(03:16):
You should finish yourundergrad, go to law school so
you have a 4.0.
He's like you're very bright.
He's like why didn't youconsider that?
And I just had never.
I wasn't raised, taught that Icould do those things, and even
in school they don't teach youhow to apply for college.
I didn't have consistentinternet access, so it wasn't
like I was at home and I couldjust apply to colleges.
(03:38):
And then it costs money and noone told you that you could get
fee waivers.
So if you don't know thosethings and you are, and I'm a
first generation collegegraduate, so I'm the first
person in my family to go tocollege and graduate so if
you're not raised in that, thenyou don't know and that's the
biggest barrier to entry.
So just having somebody believein me and telling me I could do
(03:58):
that inspired me.
I mean, I remember like tearingup that, like this man, who was
a district attorney of SantaBarbara, told me I was bright
and I was one of the brighteststudents he ever had.
So he wrote me this wonderfulletter of recommendation.
So I finished all my generaleducation credits at three
different community colleges inthe area and then I transferred
(04:19):
to California LutheranUniversity.
But again it wasn't like I wasapplying different places and
trying to see where I could go.
It was how can I go to schoolfor the cheapest while keeping
my job as a paralegal?
And then what had more eveningclasses?
And so there was a professional, a business professionals
program, and I was actually Iwas considered too young for it.
(04:40):
So I had to write a letter andI had to get a letter from my
employer and then also anotherletter from my professor saying
I could do as I've been doing it.
So then they made the exceptionand I was accepted at 22 in the
professionals program and it'saccelerated.
And then I took even morecredits.
So I was just working in schooljust because I wanted to catch
(05:04):
up, because I had been out ofhigh school for a while and I
felt behind like a late bloomer.
So I finished my undergrad andI was burnt out.
Yeah, I'm not surprised I didso much so fast because I was
like I have to graduate magnacum laude, I need this, I'm
going to apply to Pepper, needthis, I'm going to apply to
(05:25):
Pepperdine.
I'm going to go to these lawschools and I still have the
LSAT training books and Icouldn't get any more hours as a
paralegal.
So then I remember just moviesand books that had executive
assistant and so I Googled likewhat's an executive assistant?
What do they do?
And the skills as a paralegalreally translated well.
And so I started applying forthose positions and once I
(05:49):
graduated with my degree, theonly reason I was able to afford
to go to college and go andfinish was because the Chickasaw
Nation helped me pay forcollege with grants, and so it
was very important to me, as Iwas applying to these jobs, that
these employers knew that I wasa Chickasaw woman doing this.
But then I was getting nointerviews.
So then I was starting to getdesperate because it's very
(06:11):
expensive in Southern Californiaand so I didn't change anything
on my resume.
I just started checkingCaucasian only on the ethnicity
question on these onlineapplications, and as I was doing
that, I started getting a bunchof interviews and then I was
hired and worked for thisbillionaire who owned all these
different companies, and I waslooking specifically for his
holding company that hired me.
I started learning a lot forthat eagle eye view of
(06:33):
businesses.
It was very interesting.
And then my husband he was myfiance at the time he got a job
in Chicago, so he moved thereand I had to start it all over
again.
I was trying to get anexecutive assistant job and I
was like, okay, I am American,indian, alaska, native.
That's the box you check ifyou're Native American.
Nothing.
So same resume.
I changed nothing.
(06:54):
I was checking Caucasian boom,like getting interviews for huge
corporations that you've heardof in the news, everything
billion dollar, fortune 500companies.
I was like what the heck likeit's?
It just seems fishy.
But you know, is it acoincidence?
I don't know, is it causationcorrelation editor?
But it was happening a lot tome and so, um, I always had that
(07:17):
in the back of my head.
And even when I moved back tolos angeles from chicago, same
thing.
Um, but it was my ceo inchicago.
He kept bringing it up to me.
He was just like, have youconsidered getting an MBA?
Because I would be in meetingswith him, taking minutes and
participating, and I have acommunications degree and so he
really liked the way I wrote hisvoice and the corporate voice.
(07:40):
And then I was also supportingthe chief strategy officer, so I
was learning about businessstrategy too, and I was like a
sponge, because it's like I'mhere, I want to learn, I want to
be better, and I was reallyworking these jobs as if I was
still a student and I had to getan A plus.
So I was just constantlyworking overtime and the CEO
he's just like you need to getan MBA.
(08:00):
And that was like my first yearfor him.
And I was like my first yearfor him and I was like no, no,
no, no, if I'm going to getgraduate school, it'd be law
school.
That was my dream.
Or I'd get an MFA inscreenwriting because I really
love writing.
And he was just like no, no, no, get an MBA.
So then the pandemic happenedand he said now's the time.
I'm going to have the companypay for it.
If you get your MBA, startapplying.
(08:20):
So we had this vice president ofdata analytics name was emil.
I loved him.
I always loved talking to him,and he mentioned that his son
went to harvard and he went tonorthwestern but he also had a
master's in like analytics.
Uh, so I just had myapplication materials and the
questions and the schools I wastargeting, and he looked at my
resume.
He helped, was like this iswhat they're looking for.
(08:43):
And so he just like helped me merefine specific points that
they're looking for incandidates.
And he was like why are youapplying to these schools?
Why wouldn't you be applyingfor Booth?
He's like you could get intoChicago Booth.
And I was like I can't get intoBooth, I'm not smart enough.
That's what people who aresmarter than me do.
And he's just like damn it, I'mlooking at your transcript.
He's like this, you're the, youknow, and I guess that's just
(09:05):
what we're taught to believe orat least me as a woman, as a
native woman, that I am not onpar with other people.
Like that's like I just havethis small life and I'm not good
enough.
He just really mentored me andso I said I was targeting USC
because they have the onlineprogram and you have a residency
portion and the classes are onthe evening and that was my
(09:28):
dream school and they had aForte fellowship scholarship,
whereas the other online schoolsdidn't.
I got into UC Davis first andthey gave me a nothing
scholarship and I was just likeno.
They came back to me with alarger one later, but I got into
USC very quickly, gave me thescholarship and it just felt
like they really aligned withwhat I was going for.
(09:51):
I wanted to pivot from theexecutive assistant to chief of
staff role.
I really like having the bird'seye view in a business and just
learning all the componentsinstead of being siloed into one
area.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So after all of this, do you still work for the same
company?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
No.
So that CEO was let go.
And then the new CEO I waspregnant, they couldn't get rid
of me, kept me on but said theyweren't going to pay for my
degree and I'd already paid thedeposit.
And so that was heartbreakingbecause it was like this is a
very expensive school.
It's a top 20 business school.
But not only that the onlineprogram was number one in the
(10:29):
country for several years.
It fluctuates between the oneand two position, so that was
heartbreaking for me.
And then I found out I waspregnant and my husband was like
, well, what if we put it off?
And I said, no, I worked sohard, like I worked for months
to get in these programs, likeI'm doing it and I did.
It was wild, it was a wild rideto do that with a new baby
(10:50):
working full time.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, I bet it was hard, yeah, and how long after
this did you start writing yourbook?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I started Truth According to Amber in 2020.
But I just couldn't get itright.
I was entering the wrong spot.
It was too late and I triedwriting as a screenplay for a
feature and then also for aminiseries, because I love the
side characters.
But it just wasn't right.
And it wasn't until my baby wasfour months old it was May 1st.
(11:17):
I had to work in the office.
I had a different job at thispoint in Northern California and
I was forced to go into theoffice every day.
So I came home to hold my baby,eat dinner, hand her back to my
husband, sit in class for twohours and then I would do
homework.
And so it was 8 PM after Ifinished class.
I was ahead on my homework andso I was like you know, I'm
going to wash my hair.
I haven't done that in a while.
So I washed my hair and I cameout and I just like had this
(11:41):
overwhelming feeling that if Ididn't do something, my life
would never change.
My dream is to be a writer.
I love telling stories and Ihave had this idea.
I said you know, I'm NativeAmerican.
I've never seen a NativeAmerican in a rom-com before
this idea.
I said I'm Native American.
I've never seen a NativeAmerican in a rom-com before and
I just know that Ember andDonna Weather, the accountant
(12:01):
and the IT guy and I just said Iknow the story is special and I
know a publisher would want it.
And so the last thing I wantedto do was go sit back in that
chair, but because usually Iwould maybe watch an episode of
TV crash and do it all overagain the next day.
But I went back to that chair,opened my laptop and the first
chapter just flew out of me2,500 words.
Well, the muse waits for no one.
Yeah, the muse is elusive.
(12:22):
The muse they'll help you starta book or write certain scenes,
but it will not help you finisha book.
You really have to be dedicatedand have that discipline to
finish a book.
But just the magic was thereand the voice Finally.
It was because I asked how didEmber get the job?
And it was when I asked myselfthat I put so much of myself in
there.
Like, oh my gosh, she's inOklahoma, she's filling out
(12:44):
these applications, she wantsthese jobs and that box.
What if she clicked Caucasianand she got the job and she
wasn't quite qualified for it?
What would that look like, andit just was the premise for a
rom-com?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, you've given us your backstory and a bit of a
synopsis of the book the TruthAccording to Ember and an
outline of Ember and Donoah'spersonalities, but what was it
that actually drew them together?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know I love that Donoah is the nice guy.
He's a cinnamon roll and I feellike in romance we see a lot of
like the alpha guy which couldbe really hot and great, but I
really wanted the nice guy to bethe one to be a foil for her,
because she's insecure and she'slying and he sees through that
and they're both really funny.
They just get each other withtheir wit and so I think
(13:31):
Donawe's steadiness and hiskindness and compassion and
patience really help Ember inher anxious moments of wanting
to be more than she is.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And in the story Ember explains quote Dad was
white and my mom was a nativemix of Chickasaw and Choctaw.
That was just how it was.
Now we were all a mix of stuff.
End quote.
Do you feel this is a commonthought, a common feeling among
Indigenous people?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I would never presume to speak on behalf of every
Indigenous person, because wehave similarities but we all
have different experiences.
What I was really getting outwith Amber and her story, and
even for me, is that I'm a mixof settler ancestry.
Ember and her story, and evenfor me is that, you know, I'm a
mix of settler ancestry, mexicanancestry, mexican indigenous
(14:21):
ancestry, and then NorthAmerican Chickasaw ancestry, and
in Oklahoma, specificallybecause of the removal of the
five tribes and then the tribesthat were already Plains tribes
living in Oklahoma, there's alot of indigenous culture, and
then you have the settlers andthe European immigrants and
everything, and so everybodythat I know tends to be one or
(14:44):
more native tribe withinOklahoma and with settler
ancestry which is more like theFrench, canadian, scottish,
irish.
It was very common, especiallyfor the Chickasaw, cherokee,
choctaw tribes that was how theCherokee princess myth
manifested itself was theseScottish traders would come and
(15:05):
they would marry indigenouswomen and they would write back
because they had the clanstructure, and so they would say
oh, I married the chief'sdaughter, I married this native
princess, and then the mythbecame bigger than that.
But America is this melting potof different cultures and so
for Ember, she very much is amix, but she is Chickasaw, like
(15:28):
I am Chickasaw.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And do you feel that, because of the way the
Indigenous people were treated,that there is a certain amount
of inherited suffering in yourgeneration?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I do believe that we do feel that we have
generational trauma that weinherit, and then not only that,
when poverty is involved andlack of education, and then you
have abuse and addiction, likein my family, the generational
cursesses.
They just get passed on becausethere's no tools to you know,
escape that.
(15:58):
And then also we have this myththat America sells us this
capitalist dream or you have tobe more than you are you, you
are your job title, you need thenice car, the house, the salary
, you need the clothes, the newhandbag, etc.
And so it's an.
It's a never ending cycle of Ihave to be better, I have to be
(16:18):
better.
It was like not until I turned20.
And I really was exploring myheritage, like, oh, I grew up
always knowing I was Chickasawbut and I would go to Oklahoma
to visit my grandpa and familyout there.
But I grew up in California,which is very much removed from
Oklahoma, and my mom, she put mein.
We had this program calledIndian education, what it was
called here, in the schools,from elementary to high school,
(16:42):
and so I got to learn abouttribes all over, like you know,
all the federally recognizedtribes, and in the class were
other Native American studentsand so that was really awesome.
They had that community and Igot to learn.
But on the offhand I would gettold you're not Native American,
I've never heard of Chickasaw,because where we are, you know
(17:05):
Chumash, these are Chumash landsand so people have heard of
Chumash or in the movies,comanche, apache those are the
more popular ones.
So because they'd never heardof Chickasaw, it was all of a
sudden.
You're not Native American.
And I remember in high schoolwe're learning about the five
civilized tribes.
I'm using quotes here.
We don't refer to ourselves asfive civilized tribes.
If you have a civilization atall, especially our Native, know
(17:26):
our new civilizations, like, ofcourse, we're civilized and
much cleaner than the Europeancolonizers who came.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Just getting back to the classes you were talking
about, were you taught thoseclasses by indigenous people In?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
the Indian education program.
Yes, but like US history andthings you know, I just had
normal teachers and we werelearning and it's like that's
when I finally saw Chickasaw ina textbook and I said I'm
Chickasaw and my teacher justlooked at me and was like how
much Indian blood are you?
And I was confronted with thatmy whole life of you know I need
to quantify the bloodpercentage in order for someone
(18:02):
to acknowledge me, even thoughthey don't understand what that
means or what tribal citizenshipand enrollment mean in a
community.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that takes us right back to what you were
talking about earlier.
Which box do you checkregarding your ethnicity?
And when you did checkChickasaw, you didn't get the
job.
You didn't even get aninterview.
It just seems so wrong the job.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You didn't even get an interview.
It just seems so wrong it is.
I don't mention any blood.
I am Chickasaw and they don'tsee me differently within my
tribe when I go back there.
I brought my husband there andI brought my daughter last year.
She's now two and a half, butshe was 15, 16 months when I
took her.
The sense of community and lovethat you go there and it's not
somebody is more than it's weare all a part of.
(18:50):
And like sitting in theamphitheater listening to our
governor speak and my daughtershe just like wanted to run
around and there's this womanwho was sitting by herself.
She was older and she just waslike come here, baby.
And she just put her on her lapand Izzy was so content just
sitting there and it was justthis.
And she just put her on her lapand Izzy was so content just
sitting there and it was justthis, this the community right
(19:15):
Of just love.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think the word community says it all.
We just feel comfortable whenwe are around people who
understand us and people who weunderstand.
I feel that when I go back toAustralia, and even when I go to
the UK or Ireland, I do feelthat sense of sameness.
While I was reading your novel,it encouraged me to learn more
about the Chickasaw Nation and Ifound touches of Ember's story,
(19:38):
from the programs and servicesavailable to Native Americans to
the beauty of Oklahoma and theMuscogeean language, fascinating
.
Were you raised learning aboutyour ancestors' history, and do
you instill this within yourdaughter's life?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
She's two and a half but she does love Oklahoma.
So I had to go on tour and Ioriginally wanted to bring her
with me but the stops there wasjust too much and it would have
been a lot for a two-year-old.
So she got to the tail end inlos angeles, meet me there.
But she will say baby, gooklahoma, baby go oklahoma.
Now because she loved going tooklahoma last october and we had
(20:16):
so much fun and we have likephotos and videos and she's got
her oklahoma dress and theoklahoma shirt and she she loves
it because I did enroll her andso she got her welcome package
and now they have flashcards tostart learning the language and
they have immersion programs now.
But it's just, we're so betterconnected now, especially with
the internet.
(20:37):
I didn't have access to thatgrowing up and I would hear
stories of my great grandma andhow she lived in a dugout in
Oklahoma and the hardships thereand how my family would move
between Oklahoma and Californiabecause there were no jobs in
(20:59):
Oklahoma.
So they would come out toCalifornia make some money, save
some money, go back and keepbuilding their house out there,
and that's the story of a lot ofpeople.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
All wonderful stories to pass on to your daughter,
danica.
I'd love to hear yourpublishing story, from finishing
the manuscript for the TruthAccording to Amber, to finding
your agent and landing apublishing deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, I started writing it
May 1st 2022, this iteration ofit and I finished and I revised
it twice and got it query readyin six months.
So it was like a fever dream ofjust.
I had to get it out.
My goal was to start queryingagents in November of 2022 for
(21:42):
Native American Heritage Month,because I knew that agents would
be a little bit more aware ofIndigenous stories.
And I was right, and so I hadquite a few agents offer and I
picked mine, Laura Bradford.
We just really aligned with thevision of the story and how we
saw it.
We did one pass together, likejust cleaning things up, and
(22:03):
then she submitted it and ittook a couple months, but then
it went to auction.
We had five houses interested.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Oh, my goodness, danica, that is fabulous, you
know.
It just made me think aboutsomething.
Over the past four years, Ithink, I've interviewed about I
don't know 170 independentbookshop owners and booksellers,
and probably about the samenumber of authors, and the one
thing that we always come backto is how important it is for
anyone who walks into a libraryor a bookshop to see themselves
(22:35):
on the bookshelves in that storeor in that library, to know
that they can read aboutthemselves and by that I mean,
you know, if they're in theLGBTQ plus community, any
ethnicity, or if anyone has adisability of any kind.
To be able to see yourselfreflected is so important, and
(22:57):
also for the books to have beenwritten by someone like you, and
you've definitely done this.
In fact, I would say you'veopened a door for Indigenous
rom-coms.
It's exciting and I thinkbecause we had so many more
people reading during thepandemic.
Readers wanted diverse bookswritten by diverse authors and
(23:18):
whereas it used to be all whitepeople straight white people
working in publishing companies,that has gradually changed now,
so we have much more diversitywithin the publishing community,
and that definitely needed tohappen.
I think in many ways, thepandemic helped us all well, it
made us all slow down and tolook around and see what was
(23:40):
happening within the publishingindustry.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I mean there were the paper shortages, but
the pandemic and book talk, withinvigorating the market, with
new readers, of people who hadtime now to do things, and
talking about books and romanceand romance is a billion dollar
industry that's growing and itwas said that the only Native
American representation were thebodice rippers of the 90s and
(24:06):
early 2000s.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Let's talk about Ember.
Are you at all like her in thatyou are cautious about
accepting help from others?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I do believe.
So I'm not a liar.
That is a pet peeve of mine.
I'm like a human lie detector.
I'm almost honest to a fault,because integrity is so
important to me.
It's a core, it's a pillar ofmy character, but it made for an
interesting character to write.
I'm the oldest daughter in myfamily, first generation college
student, and I grew up withouta lot of opportunity in really
(24:37):
rough conditions and because ofthat it has made me a harder
person.
Harder on myself.
I need to excel.
I need to achieve X, y and Z.
Harder person harder on myselfI need to excel.
I need to achieve X, y and Z.
And now that I have my owndaughter, it's like I never want
her to be without utilities.
Growing up with utilities,getting shut off and not having
any food in the pantry, in thefridge was difficult for me and
(25:00):
it scares me.
Now I have this child of mineand she needs to have.
She needs to have more than Idid and more love, more
acceptance and also a roof overher head and security.
And so my husband and I we'vesaved for five years to try to
get a house and thankfully thisbook deal was additional income
(25:22):
and got us approved for a homeloan.
Without it we still wouldn'thave qualified income and got us
approved for a home loan.
Without it we still wouldn'thave qualified.
And so I'm so blessed that Icould give my daughter the
stability that she will alwayshave a home.
And I'm getting emotionalbecause I'm a fighter like Ember
and I did put so much.
It's a fictional story.
I am not Ember, but I put somuch of myself layered
(25:45):
throughout there.
Subconsciously I didn't evenrealize I was doing it, and I do
believe that themes andsymbolism.
Readers can pick up on thatafter a book is finished.
But as I'm writing it, I'm justtrying to get these characters
to kiss.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, that's cute.
Yeah, no, I totally understand.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I'm like why is she not answering this phone call?
Oh, oh, it's her brother's thejail.
Oh, you know it's those things,because I grew up, you know,
unfortunately, with my fathergoing to jail quite a bit and
watching him get arrested, andthat is a norm for me.
And many people, so many people, are incarcerated.
That is a problem in thiscountry, especially the
for-profit prisons.
So it just made sense and itwasn't like I was writing this
(26:25):
book on a soapbox of like I'mgoing to talk about these things
in this way and use a romanticcomedy to do it.
It was well, the character work.
Why is this girl in thisposition?
How come she didn't have X, yand Z?
Why was she living with Randy?
What happened with her family?
And it's just what I know.
(26:45):
It's how a lot of my friendswere raised.
I think romance is.
It's an aspirational genre.
That's why rom coms you see alot of them where the characters
are just wealthy and abillionaire comes and, oh no,
her cupcake business is failing.
But she inherited this housefrom her family member and she's
broke.
But she can afford to renovatethe house and not work Like I
(27:08):
grew up, where if you're broke,you've got three jobs and you
have roommates who you don'tlove.
You know they're weird, but youneed a roof over your head and
rent's expensive and even foodgroceries are so expensive.
So I think that point of viewis so necessary and I just know
it's connecting readers.
I get messages every day fromreaders, indigenous and
(27:31):
non-Indigenous, who seethemselves reflected in Ember.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
What do you enjoy most about writing and what do
you hope readers will take awayafter reading the Truth
According to Ember?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I just love.
I love comedy.
I consider myself a comedywriter first and foremost, so
anytime I can get some jokes inthere physical humor, and like a
really funny set piece like abowling alley and have
shenanigans happen, like that tome is, yes, I wrote this for
Indigenous readers, but I wroteit in a way that's accessible
for all, and so while there arejokes that only people in Indian
country will appreciate, thereare even more jokes that anybody
, because it's universally funny.
So I hope people come to itjust for wanting to enjoy a
(28:22):
great story and then I hope theyleave with a sense of community
and belonging, what that means.
How can you help the community?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
See everything gets back to community.
I love it.
Okay, what are you currentlyreading?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Well, I'm on deadline so I'm trying not to read too
much, but I did get asked toblurb Nina Kumar's second book,
flirting with Disaster.
I'm so excited for that.
I loved her debut.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Say You'll Be Mine, it's lovely to know you have
another book on the way.
Was book two part of yourpublishing deal?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yes, it was a two book deal, so the second book is
coming next summer in July,back in Oklahoma, another
Indigenous romcom Danica, thankyou so much for being a guest on
the show and for writing theTruth According to Ember.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
It's a fun read that gives the reader something to
think about too.
Well done.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well, thank you so much, Mindy.
I hope you have a great day.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
You've been listening to my conversation with Danica
Narva about her new novel, theTruth According to Ember.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
(29:30):
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
(29:53):
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,adrienne Otterhan, and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
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