November 11, 2024 • 25 mins
Madeline Martin, bestselling author of historical fiction and romance, joins us for an intriguing discussion on her journey from business analyst to full-time writer. Her childhood experiences as an army brat in Germany ignited a fascination with history, leading to meticulously researched novels. Set against the backdrop of World War II in Nottingham, this novel captures the emotional turmoil of a mother's decision to send her daughter away for safety.
Whether you're an aspiring writer or simply a lover of historical narratives, Madeline's story is a testament to the transformative power of following one's passion.
Madeline Martin
The Booklover’s Library, Madeline Martin
The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, Mary Ann Shaffer, Annie Barrows
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to Episode 274.
Madeline Martin is a New YorkTimes, usa Today, publishers
Weekly and internationalbestselling author of historical
(00:54):
fiction and historical romance,with books that have been
translated into over 25languages.
She is a diehard history loverwho will happily lose herself in
research any day, and whenshe's not writing, researching
or mumming, you can find herspending time with her family at
Disney or sneaking a couple ofspoonfuls of Nutella while
laughing over cat videos.
(01:14):
She also loves to travel,attributing her fascination with
history to having spent most ofher childhood as an army brat
in Germany.
I'm Madeline, and welcome tothe show.
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you so much for having me, Mandy.
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, first up, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the
Book Lover's Library.
I thought it was wonderful andbeautifully written, thank you.
We'll come back to the book ina little while, but let's begin
with learning about yourchildhood in Germany and what
led you to write historicalfiction and romance.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So my dad was in the army growing up.
He was career army and we livedin Germany for collectively
about 12 years Darmstadt,würzburg and Bad Kreuznach
because I know people alwayswant to find out where we were
stationed.
So when we lived there myparents really embraced the
opportunity to explore Europeand so we traveled all over
Europe and in doing that we gotto visit so many of these
(02:07):
incredible old sites and wewould usually hire, you know,
we'd have a tour guide that youcould go and kind of give you a
little tour of the place.
And the thing about these tourguides is they're so passionate
about the topic that they'retelling you about, and as a
little girl who loves storiesand fairy tales and being told
all these different things too,I just absolutely devoured it.
(02:29):
And so I really think thatthrough the passion of all of
those different tour guides andthe beauty of all those historic
locations that we visited,history just really sank its
teeth into my heart, and I'vealways been a history lover.
Ever since, and now, withwriting historical fiction, I
have discovered that not only amI a history nerd, I'm also a
(02:49):
huge research nerd and I'vealways loved writing.
But I think that I actuallyenjoy the research even more
than the writing, or at leastit's on par, because it's just
something that I enjoy so much.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I can relate.
It doesn't take much to bait meto get me to go down a rabbit
hole of research, that's forsure.
In fact, after reading yourbook, I did some research about
Nottingham and how the city wasbombed in World War II.
It was just so sad.
I find research addictive.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It really, really is.
I always joke that if I didn'tever have a due date, I probably
would research a book for like25 years.
So it's a good thing I have duedates, or I'd probably never be
putting out books, I would justbe completely ensconced in my
research.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, I can relate.
How about you give us asynopsis of the Book Lovers
Library?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, this is a heartwarming home front read
that is set in Nottingham,england, right at the cusp of
World War II, where a widowedmother has to send her daughter
away during the children'sevacuation that really kind of
consumed all of England at thattime.
And it's set in this wonderfullocation called the Book Lover's
Library, which is based on areal lending library that
(03:57):
actually existed then and youknow I knew that a mother
sending her daughter away wasgoing to be a little bit heavier
.
And when I started to read alittle bit more about the Book
Lovers Library which I know thatwe're going to be getting into,
you know, it just seemed likeit offered a place of lightness
and levity and just really thebeauty of that bookish community
(04:17):
that I really enjoy featuringin my stories.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now for our listeners , I'm actually going to
recommend something Read theBook Lovers Library and reread
the Guernsey Literary and PotatoPeel Pie Society.
I had the pleasure ofinterviewing in person Annie
Barrows, one of the writers ofthat book, and there's some
commonality between the BookLovers Library and the Guernsey
Literary and Potato Peel PieSociety, one of them being, of
(04:43):
course, it's World War II, andthey also both talk about how
the children were sent away, andfor many of these children and
for the parents, it was sixyears that they were away.
It must have been heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
If children left at the first,like you know, when they were
first told to leave in September1939, and they didn't come back
until they were told that theyhad the all clear to come back,
it would have been six years.
And I just have to say that Ilove the Guernsey Potato Peel
Society as well.
Such a good book.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, and I love the movie too.
I thought it was wonderful.
I like to think about theGuernsey Literary and Potato
Peel Pie Society and the BookLovers Library as twin books.
They're great to read together.
Okay, now there was an articleon the Boots website dated
October 23, 2019, and it tellsthe story of FR Richardson, the
(05:36):
head librarian at Boots for over30 years, and how, in 1890,
Florence Boots started to buysecondhand books from the big
London libraries to sell inBoots and these books later
became part of the Bootslibraries.
Now the libraries closed in1966.
And I was wondering were youable to speak with anyone who
(05:57):
worked in one of the Bootslibraries in the UK?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Unfortunately.
No, I really did actually tryto reach out to Boots, to get
someone to reach out back to me,especially when I was in
Nottingham, because it wouldhave been a prime opportunity
for me to get to go and speakwith them in person and maybe
even get to look through some oftheir archives.
When novelists reach out andsay, hey, I'm writing a book.
(06:26):
So I don't know if it was sortof an off put against that or
maybe sometimes these placesjust get such an influx of
emails that it's kind of like aslush pile and I didn't know
anybody specifically to reachout to.
But I did meet with a woman whowas actually a tour guide.
Her name is Felicity Whittleand she is a retired tour guide,
so she couldn't technicallytake me on an official tour but
(06:46):
she so generously donated herafternoon to walk around
Nottingham with me and to reallyjust share some of the bookish
highlights of Nottingham andtalk about, because the initial
Boots chemist, which is, for ourAmerican listeners, chemists
are basically like yourpharmacies, like CVS or
Walgreens, and so the very firstBoots chemist is located in
(07:09):
Nottingham and also the firststore that had the first Boots
Book Lovers Library was locatedthere as well, and it was neat
because I did get to actuallysee that building.
Unfortunately, the inside is nowa Zara and so it's like these
glossy white walls and halogenlights.
Oh, it's heartbreaking.
There's like no salt to it onthe inside, but the outside is
still so lovely.
(07:30):
It's that you know thatscrolling stonework and the
stained glass windows and thislovely clock on the corner of
the building.
So at least I did have theopportunity to get to do that
and get to see that, and it wasso nice to take her afternoon to
come out and just walk aroundwith me and just talk about the
Boots Book Lovers Library.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
When I lived in London in the 80s, I was a
regular at Boots and for anyoneinterested in reading the
articles I just mentioned, I'llmake sure to put links in the
show notes for you.
Adeline, you are a prolificwriter and you've also published
in different publishing formsself-publishing and traditional
publishing.
What do you see as the pros andcons of both?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So I think well, and I've also done small press as
well, so I feel like Idefinitely have sort of run the
gamut.
So I started with small pressand I do feel like that was
beneficial in the fact that theyreally held my hands and sort
of showed me the ropes as far aspublishing, releasing a book,
marketing, that kind of thing.
(08:33):
I think that with independentpublishing that was really
helpful for me to getting afoothold into marketing and
making sure that I was doingeverything correctly, like
little things, like making sureif you share something you have
a link to attach to it.
If you share it, a bunch oftimes always kind of include at
least like one line about whatthe book is about.
Little things like that,because when you're independent
(08:54):
you don't have anybody pushingyour book but you, and so you
definitely need to make surethat everybody readers always
have all that informationavailable.
Even if it's the fifth timethat they've seen it, it could
be somebody's first time seeingit.
So I feel like it really wasbeneficial from that perspective
.
The difficult part is, again,you are the only person really
(09:14):
sharing about your book, asidefrom friends that you, you know
a network of colleagues sort ofthat you build over time, but
everything really falls on you.
You have to hire an editor, youhave to hire somebody to do the
cover, you have to do all theformatting yourself, all the
uploading, and sometimes certainpublishers can be difficult
when they come back after you'vetried to upload certain things.
(09:37):
I've been very lucky to havesuccess with my historical
fiction, and my historicalromance never took off to the
capacity that my historicalfiction has, and at one point I
received an email from Amazontelling me that I had to change
my name for my historicalromances because I was trying to
copy a successful author, thatsuccessful author also being me.
(09:59):
Oh, my goodness, it took abouttwo months to prove that I was
in fact me, um, and and not haveto change my name.
So you know, having to do thatfrom a uh, from an independent
publisher's perspective, it's alittle bit frustrating because I
didn't really have a supportnetwork to go to and say, hey,
(10:19):
there's an issue, can you fixthis?
And then you know, as far astraditionally published, I mean,
obviously like I don't have asmuch control over the cover I
they, although I have been veryfortunate that the publisher
that I've worked with has beenvery amenable to really making
adjustments.
In fact, with the Book LoversLibrary cover I was able to add
(10:41):
some little things on there,like on the very bottom row of
books, for anybody that'slooking at their book while
they're listening to thispodcast.
You'll notice that one of thebooks has a little eyelet at the
top of it and that's by design.
I asked them to do that andit's because when people would
check out books from the BootsBook Lovers Library they would
have a little string with atoken on the end of it and
that's how they would check outtheir books and it would get
(11:03):
threaded through that hole andpeople could use it as a
bookmark while they were readingand they wouldn't lose their
membership token for the nexttime they came in to get their
books.
So it's just a little sort ofnod to the love of the Book
Lovers Library and a littleEaster egg sort of for readers
to find after they've read thebook.
As far as I mean personally,I've been very fortunate in my
(11:24):
traditionally published journeyand I really don't have any
complaints.
I feel like they've been reallywonderful as far as making sure
that my book has all kinds ofnotice everywhere so that people
know that it's coming out.
I've gotten beautiful covers,I've had a lot of flexibility
with choosing my narrator andthey take me.
(11:45):
You know I've done wonderfulbook tours that they've helped
with and I mean it's really beena lovely experience.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I mean, the cover of the Book Lovers Library is
gorgeous.
Thank you for that little bitof history.
I love it.
I often giggle when I hear theword self-publishing.
Having self-published my ownbooks quite a few years ago now,
I think that that word is anoxymoron, because you cannot do
it all yourself, maybe if that'syour full-time job, but it
(12:12):
takes a team to publish a book.
You know you've got yourformatter, your editors, your
book cover designer, a team ofmarketing specialists.
It's not only a team of people,but it costs quite a bit of
money to do it correctly, andthe issue with this is that it
takes you away from what youlove, which is writing.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Now, in reality, whether you're traditionally
published by one of the big five, or you're an imprint, or
you're with a small and mediumpress or a hybrid publisher, you
still have to do a fair amountof your own marketing.
I mean, that's just a given nowand, sadly, that's why the
author platform is important fornonfiction and fiction authors.
While we're talking aboutpublishing, I would love to hear
(12:55):
your traditional publishingstory, from your first finished
and polished manuscript tofinding an agent and landing a
publishing deal.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh my goodness.
So I think I've always kind ofwritten books.
I didn't realize that I had.
But my mom, you know, we movedso much and she kept like every
accolade I ever achieved inschool, from like 100% on a
spelling test to like honorstudent, you know, whatever.
And so, um, when I was likeabout 25, she came at me with
like five or six of thesemassive boxes that's moved back
(13:26):
and forth over, you know, overthe sea and everything and um,
so I started going through themand it was amazing how many of
these little like stories that Ihad started a chapter here or
there, a plot here and there, Ieven had like a hardcover book
that I had put together andillustrated myself when I was
nine.
And so I think I've always kindof wanted to write.
(13:46):
I know, when I went to college Icompletely set writing aside
because in my mind, real peopledon't become writers like that's
, that's like you know, for likethe Danielle Steele's of the
world and like an averageMadeline Martin.
You know that just doesn'thappen.
And so I ended up going tocollege.
I went to school for a degreein business administration and I
minored in economics, politicalscience and accounting and I
(14:09):
just kind of tucked away booksas far as writing them in the
back of my mind and just kind ofput it away.
And then I was on maternityleave with my first daughter,
who is now 18.
And I got the idea, you know, Ithink I'm going to write a book
, because I was reading DianaGabaldon's Outlander and, you
know, I really fell in love withsort of that brawny Scotsman
(14:29):
and the feisty Sassanach, youknow, and I thought, oh, this
sounds like such a fun dynamicand I really wanted to explore
it on my own.
So I wrote a Scottishhistorical romance and then I
went to a local writers groupmeeting, pregnant and with my
second daughter at this pointbecause now I'm at this point
and we had done this sort ofexchange of books with one
(14:51):
another and I realized at thatpoint in time, oh my gosh, I had
no idea what I was doing.
I was horrible.
So I'm super type A In fact Ilike to joke that I'm so type A,
I'm 12, point in time's newRoman font and at that point in
time I just completely stoppedeverything.
I didn't write a single word.
I devoted the next five years tolearning everything that I
(15:12):
possibly could about the craftof writing.
I listened to books on CD, sothat'll tell you kind of how old
, how long ago that was.
I went to conferences, Iattended workshops, I bought
packets online to work throughon my own.
I became almost obsessed withlearning everything that I
possibly could about writing.
So then I finally sat down andI wrote what was my first
(15:35):
historical romance, Deception ofa Highlander.
And I finally wrote that out.
I gave it to some of my friendsand they said Madeline, this is
really good, you should submitit to some contests.
And so I submitted it to threenationwide contests and it
finaled in all three.
And then it won first place inall three and it finaled in all
(15:56):
three.
And then it won first place inall three.
And so then I thought, okay,well, maybe my book isn't, as
maybe my writing has at leastgotten better after all of this
work that I've done.
And so I went to a conferenceand my dream agent at the time
happened to be there and Ipitched to her and she ended up
offering representation.
And so it was really wonderful.
And I do joke that I didn'thave, you know, the list of
(16:17):
rejected agents, like a lot ofpeople do, but it's also because
I rejected myself first and soso I sold that first three book
series to a small press and thenI actually kind of started
doing some self-publishing inbetween because the books were
taking a little bit longer tocome out and I had friends who
(16:38):
were in self-publishing andthey're like oh well, we could
do an anthology and you coulduse it as like a novella for
something and I thought, OK,that's perfect.
So that's kind of how I got myfeet wet with that.
And at that time I also hadbeen approached by Harlequin
Historical because they my agenthad submitted to them and they
(16:58):
wanted to publish my books.
So I was writing with HarlequinHistorical but also writing
self-publishing on my own, and Idid learn that with
self-publishing there's a lot ofmoney to be made in
self-publishing butunfortunately you do have to put
out a book every other month.
So I was still working.
I was a business analyst andfor some of these years as well
I was also a single mother.
(17:19):
Which is sort of where Emmabeing a single mother comes from
is a lot of my personalexperience in the book lovers
library.
So I was working a full timejob.
My kids were in every activityunder the sun, and my kids
always come first, no matterwhat.
And for I'd say the last, likethree years of me working my day
job, I was writing six to eightromances a year.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh my gosh, that's a lot of books.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah.
So I mean, I really do thinkthat for over a decade I
probably got about four hours ofsleep a night, just with as
much as I was trying to learnand do and and, and I didn't
want to sacrifice any of thattime for my kids, and so I would
wake up at like three or fouro'clock in the morning and work,
and then when they would go tobed I would work some more, but
(18:07):
I never took any time away fromthem.
So you know, I had been doingthis for a while.
I was exhausted and at work thewriting was kind of on the wall
.
People were being laid off andI told my husband because I'm
married now my own Mr Fisk and Itold my husband, you know, if I
get laid off, I think I wouldlike to just write full time, to
(18:28):
just give it a shot because I'mtired, and yeah, and so he said
OK, and so I ended up gettinglaid off and it's horrible to
say, but it was a very joyousexperience for me because I was
so looking forward to having theentire house to myself.
I mean, even for for those yearsthat I was writing, I have my
(18:49):
own office now, but for amajority of it, I was working in
the middle of the living roomand trying to be on deadline.
Working in the middle of theliving room and trying to be on
deadline.
Working in the middle of theliving room with two kids who
always need mama.
You know it's not super easy.
So I thought, oh, this is goingto be amazing after over, like
you know, gosh, I think at thispoint it had been like, you know
, 13 years finally getting to behome by myself, have the house
(19:10):
to myself, the quiet and justright.
And so this was February 2020.
The pandemic happened, likethree weeks later, and I was
totally robbed Because nobodyleft for a long time.
In fact, my husband's employerstill has.
They actually ended up sellingtheir office building, so he
works from home all the time.
(19:31):
He's never, never at the office.
And but you know, it did giveme the opportunity to really
devote myself to the historicalresearch that was necessary to
write the Last Bookshop inLondon.
That was my first historicalfiction that I wrote and it
released in 2021.
And when that book came out, Itechnically was a USA Today
(19:51):
bestselling author, butadmittedly it's because I was in
an anthology with otherhistorical romance authors who
were much bigger names than Iwas and who published that book.
The Last Bookshop in London.
Yes, that was with HanoverSquare Press, which is the
current publisher that I'm stillwith, which is under
HarperCollins.
And so I had really hoped thatI would at least hit the USA
(20:14):
today bestseller list to sort ofhave that honor in my own right
.
And my girlfriend called, likeyou know, a week after the book
had come out and she said, oh mygosh, you hit the USA today
bestseller list.
And I was just completely overthe moon, um, and then later on
that night I was driving to mydaughter to dance and I got a
phone call on speaker from myeditor and I answered it and, um
(20:36):
, and he said I want to let youknow that you hit.
And I'm thinking, oh no, he'sgoing to say the USA Today
bestseller list.
And my youngest, who has likeno filter, is going to say, oh,
she knows, her friend alreadytold her.
And he said you hit numbereight on the New York times.
And, and you know, here I am,like you know, 14 years into
(20:59):
this, like blood, sweat andtears, over over 35 books
written, being exhausted for somuch of this, sacrificing so
much, and to finally hit the NewYork Times, which is an
accomplishment.
I never, ever dreamed that Iwould hit and I just burst into
tears.
And then I went home and I didlaundry, because mom life
doesn't stop, no matter whathappens.
But I had a glass of wine tocelebrate while I did it.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And for our listeners , you have written 43 books.
That's incredible.
Let's talk about writing.
Do you have a specific order ofpreparation, research, outline
writing and editing?
Are you more of a free flowwriter?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I do all of my research up front.
So I do about 10 months worthof research.
In that time I also travel onlocation and I get to do a lot
of on-hand research on site,which is huge for helping just
really bring the story to lifefor me.
And then I go through and Icreate all of the characters
because I feel like thecharacters.
You know they say that withnonfiction.
(21:55):
If you want to read about whathappened, you read nonfiction.
If you want to know how peoplefelt, you read historical
fiction.
And so the characters are theheartbeat of the story and their
integral to really making asuccessful historical fiction.
So they come before the plotand then the plot comes and I do
a very detailed and thoroughone, probably gosh.
(22:16):
I probably write like about 15or 20 percent of the book just
with the plot, and then I andthen I and then I write the book
in about two months.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm impressed.
Thank you.
Did you have successfinancially with your
self-published books?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I did when I was putting out a book every other
month.
But I did learn that that wasnot enjoyable for me.
I had an editor who would makecomments and say the heroine
just called the hero the lasthero's name.
You know I can understand whyand you know it was just really
for me it was hard to connect tothe characters when I was
(22:52):
having to just pump them out.
I'm able to take a good solidyear on my books now with my
historical fiction and it'shonestly a dream come true, just
getting to really sit in thatstory and get to absorb
everything and really get toknow inside and out all of my
characters.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's been wonderful and it shows.
I mean, the Book Lovers Libraryis a beautifully written book.
The characters are deep, alittle complicated.
You have the background ofWorld War II.
I thought it was wonderful.
Now let's talk about books.
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So I am currently reading the Good Daughters,
which is a debut that is comingout soon.
Bridget Dale is the author'sname and it's called the Good
Daughters and it is a book aboutthe women's suffragette
movement and women who reallyyou wouldn't expect to be
friends, but how they cometogether and really help to
(23:45):
support one another and alsoreally further the suffragette
movement.
And it's, like I said, a debut.
I'm really enjoying it so farand I'm looking forward to it
coming out and getting to helpspread the word.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Reading advanced reader copies is such a treat
and it's so much funrecommending books to other
readers.
I just love that part of my job.
Madeline, thank you so much forbeing a guest on the show.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you and,
as I've said many times, I lovedthe Book Lovers Library and I
really enjoyed getting to chatwith you and, as I've said many
times, I loved the Book Lover'sLibrary and I really enjoyed
getting to chat with you too.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
This has been so fun.
Thank you for having me.
You've been listening to myconversation with Madeline
Martin about her latest novel,the Book Lover's Library.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
(24:41):
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
(25:03):
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, Mandy
Jackson-Beverly, Theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,Adrian Otterhan, and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to Episode 274.
Madeline Martin is a New YorkTimes, usa Today, publishers
Weekly and internationalbestselling author of historical
(00:54):
fiction and historical romance,with books that have been
translated into over 25languages.
She is a diehard history loverwho will happily lose herself in
research any day, and whenshe's not writing, researching
or mumming, you can find herspending time with her family at
Disney or sneaking a couple ofspoonfuls of Nutella while
laughing over cat videos.
(01:14):
She also loves to travel,attributing her fascination with
history to having spent most ofher childhood as an army brat
in Germany.
I'm Madeline, and welcome tothe show.
It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you so much for having me, Mandy.
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, first up, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the
Book Lover's Library.
I thought it was wonderful andbeautifully written, thank you.
We'll come back to the book ina little while, but let's begin
with learning about yourchildhood in Germany and what
led you to write historicalfiction and romance.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So my dad was in the army growing up.
He was career army and we livedin Germany for collectively
about 12 years Darmstadt,würzburg and Bad Kreuznach
because I know people alwayswant to find out where we were
stationed.
So when we lived there myparents really embraced the
opportunity to explore Europeand so we traveled all over
Europe and in doing that we gotto visit so many of these
(02:07):
incredible old sites and wewould usually hire, you know,
we'd have a tour guide that youcould go and kind of give you a
little tour of the place.
And the thing about these tourguides is they're so passionate
about the topic that they'retelling you about, and as a
little girl who loves storiesand fairy tales and being told
all these different things too,I just absolutely devoured it.
(02:29):
And so I really think thatthrough the passion of all of
those different tour guides andthe beauty of all those historic
locations that we visited,history just really sank its
teeth into my heart, and I'vealways been a history lover.
Ever since, and now, withwriting historical fiction, I
have discovered that not only amI a history nerd, I'm also a
(02:49):
huge research nerd and I'vealways loved writing.
But I think that I actuallyenjoy the research even more
than the writing, or at leastit's on par, because it's just
something that I enjoy so much.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I can relate.
It doesn't take much to bait meto get me to go down a rabbit
hole of research, that's forsure.
In fact, after reading yourbook, I did some research about
Nottingham and how the city wasbombed in World War II.
It was just so sad.
I find research addictive.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It really, really is.
I always joke that if I didn'tever have a due date, I probably
would research a book for like25 years.
So it's a good thing I have duedates, or I'd probably never be
putting out books, I would justbe completely ensconced in my
research.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, I can relate.
How about you give us asynopsis of the Book Lovers
Library?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, this is a heartwarming home front read
that is set in Nottingham,england, right at the cusp of
World War II, where a widowedmother has to send her daughter
away during the children'sevacuation that really kind of
consumed all of England at thattime.
And it's set in this wonderfullocation called the Book Lover's
Library, which is based on areal lending library that
(03:57):
actually existed then and youknow I knew that a mother
sending her daughter away wasgoing to be a little bit heavier
.
And when I started to read alittle bit more about the Book
Lovers Library which I know thatwe're going to be getting into,
you know, it just seemed likeit offered a place of lightness
and levity and just really thebeauty of that bookish community
(04:17):
that I really enjoy featuringin my stories.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now for our listeners , I'm actually going to
recommend something Read theBook Lovers Library and reread
the Guernsey Literary and PotatoPeel Pie Society.
I had the pleasure ofinterviewing in person Annie
Barrows, one of the writers ofthat book, and there's some
commonality between the BookLovers Library and the Guernsey
Literary and Potato Peel PieSociety, one of them being, of
(04:43):
course, it's World War II, andthey also both talk about how
the children were sent away, andfor many of these children and
for the parents, it was sixyears that they were away.
It must have been heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
If children left at the first,like you know, when they were
first told to leave in September1939, and they didn't come back
until they were told that theyhad the all clear to come back,
it would have been six years.
And I just have to say that Ilove the Guernsey Potato Peel
Society as well.
Such a good book.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, and I love the movie too.
I thought it was wonderful.
I like to think about theGuernsey Literary and Potato
Peel Pie Society and the BookLovers Library as twin books.
They're great to read together.
Okay, now there was an articleon the Boots website dated
October 23, 2019, and it tellsthe story of FR Richardson, the
(05:36):
head librarian at Boots for over30 years, and how, in 1890,
Florence Boots started to buysecondhand books from the big
London libraries to sell inBoots and these books later
became part of the Bootslibraries.
Now the libraries closed in1966.
And I was wondering were youable to speak with anyone who
(05:57):
worked in one of the Bootslibraries in the UK?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Unfortunately.
No, I really did actually tryto reach out to Boots, to get
someone to reach out back to me,especially when I was in
Nottingham, because it wouldhave been a prime opportunity
for me to get to go and speakwith them in person and maybe
even get to look through some oftheir archives.
When novelists reach out andsay, hey, I'm writing a book.
(06:26):
So I don't know if it was sortof an off put against that or
maybe sometimes these placesjust get such an influx of
emails that it's kind of like aslush pile and I didn't know
anybody specifically to reachout to.
But I did meet with a woman whowas actually a tour guide.
Her name is Felicity Whittleand she is a retired tour guide,
so she couldn't technicallytake me on an official tour but
(06:46):
she so generously donated herafternoon to walk around
Nottingham with me and to reallyjust share some of the bookish
highlights of Nottingham andtalk about, because the initial
Boots chemist, which is, for ourAmerican listeners, chemists
are basically like yourpharmacies, like CVS or
Walgreens, and so the very firstBoots chemist is located in
(07:09):
Nottingham and also the firststore that had the first Boots
Book Lovers Library was locatedthere as well, and it was neat
because I did get to actuallysee that building.
Unfortunately, the inside is nowa Zara and so it's like these
glossy white walls and halogenlights.
Oh, it's heartbreaking.
There's like no salt to it onthe inside, but the outside is
still so lovely.
(07:30):
It's that you know thatscrolling stonework and the
stained glass windows and thislovely clock on the corner of
the building.
So at least I did have theopportunity to get to do that
and get to see that, and it wasso nice to take her afternoon to
come out and just walk aroundwith me and just talk about the
Boots Book Lovers Library.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
When I lived in London in the 80s, I was a
regular at Boots and for anyoneinterested in reading the
articles I just mentioned, I'llmake sure to put links in the
show notes for you.
Adeline, you are a prolificwriter and you've also published
in different publishing formsself-publishing and traditional
publishing.
What do you see as the pros andcons of both?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So I think well, and I've also done small press as
well, so I feel like Idefinitely have sort of run the
gamut.
So I started with small pressand I do feel like that was
beneficial in the fact that theyreally held my hands and sort
of showed me the ropes as far aspublishing, releasing a book,
marketing, that kind of thing.
(08:33):
I think that with independentpublishing that was really
helpful for me to getting afoothold into marketing and
making sure that I was doingeverything correctly, like
little things, like making sureif you share something you have
a link to attach to it.
If you share it, a bunch oftimes always kind of include at
least like one line about whatthe book is about.
Little things like that,because when you're independent
(08:54):
you don't have anybody pushingyour book but you, and so you
definitely need to make surethat everybody readers always
have all that informationavailable.
Even if it's the fifth timethat they've seen it, it could
be somebody's first time seeingit.
So I feel like it really wasbeneficial from that perspective
.
The difficult part is, again,you are the only person really
(09:14):
sharing about your book, asidefrom friends that you, you know
a network of colleagues sort ofthat you build over time, but
everything really falls on you.
You have to hire an editor, youhave to hire somebody to do the
cover, you have to do all theformatting yourself, all the
uploading, and sometimes certainpublishers can be difficult
when they come back after you'vetried to upload certain things.
(09:37):
I've been very lucky to havesuccess with my historical
fiction, and my historicalromance never took off to the
capacity that my historicalfiction has, and at one point I
received an email from Amazontelling me that I had to change
my name for my historicalromances because I was trying to
copy a successful author, thatsuccessful author also being me.
(09:59):
Oh, my goodness, it took abouttwo months to prove that I was
in fact me, um, and and not haveto change my name.
So you know, having to do thatfrom a uh, from an independent
publisher's perspective, it's alittle bit frustrating because I
didn't really have a supportnetwork to go to and say, hey,
(10:19):
there's an issue, can you fixthis?
And then you know, as far astraditionally published, I mean,
obviously like I don't have asmuch control over the cover I
they, although I have been veryfortunate that the publisher
that I've worked with has beenvery amenable to really making
adjustments.
In fact, with the Book LoversLibrary cover I was able to add
(10:41):
some little things on there,like on the very bottom row of
books, for anybody that'slooking at their book while
they're listening to thispodcast.
You'll notice that one of thebooks has a little eyelet at the
top of it and that's by design.
I asked them to do that andit's because when people would
check out books from the BootsBook Lovers Library they would
have a little string with atoken on the end of it and
that's how they would check outtheir books and it would get
(11:03):
threaded through that hole andpeople could use it as a
bookmark while they were readingand they wouldn't lose their
membership token for the nexttime they came in to get their
books.
So it's just a little sort ofnod to the love of the Book
Lovers Library and a littleEaster egg sort of for readers
to find after they've read thebook.
As far as I mean personally,I've been very fortunate in my
(11:24):
traditionally published journeyand I really don't have any
complaints.
I feel like they've been reallywonderful as far as making sure
that my book has all kinds ofnotice everywhere so that people
know that it's coming out.
I've gotten beautiful covers,I've had a lot of flexibility
with choosing my narrator andthey take me.
(11:45):
You know I've done wonderfulbook tours that they've helped
with and I mean it's really beena lovely experience.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I mean, the cover of the Book Lovers Library is
gorgeous.
Thank you for that little bitof history.
I love it.
I often giggle when I hear theword self-publishing.
Having self-published my ownbooks quite a few years ago now,
I think that that word is anoxymoron, because you cannot do
it all yourself, maybe if that'syour full-time job, but it
(12:12):
takes a team to publish a book.
You know you've got yourformatter, your editors, your
book cover designer, a team ofmarketing specialists.
It's not only a team of people,but it costs quite a bit of
money to do it correctly, andthe issue with this is that it
takes you away from what youlove, which is writing.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Now, in reality, whether you're traditionally
published by one of the big five, or you're an imprint, or
you're with a small and mediumpress or a hybrid publisher, you
still have to do a fair amountof your own marketing.
I mean, that's just a given nowand, sadly, that's why the
author platform is important fornonfiction and fiction authors.
While we're talking aboutpublishing, I would love to hear
(12:55):
your traditional publishingstory, from your first finished
and polished manuscript tofinding an agent and landing a
publishing deal.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh my goodness.
So I think I've always kind ofwritten books.
I didn't realize that I had.
But my mom, you know, we movedso much and she kept like every
accolade I ever achieved inschool, from like 100% on a
spelling test to like honorstudent, you know, whatever.
And so, um, when I was likeabout 25, she came at me with
like five or six of thesemassive boxes that's moved back
(13:26):
and forth over, you know, overthe sea and everything and um,
so I started going through themand it was amazing how many of
these little like stories that Ihad started a chapter here or
there, a plot here and there, Ieven had like a hardcover book
that I had put together andillustrated myself when I was
nine.
And so I think I've always kindof wanted to write.
(13:46):
I know, when I went to college Icompletely set writing aside
because in my mind, real peopledon't become writers like that's
, that's like you know, for likethe Danielle Steele's of the
world and like an averageMadeline Martin.
You know that just doesn'thappen.
And so I ended up going tocollege.
I went to school for a degreein business administration and I
minored in economics, politicalscience and accounting and I
(14:09):
just kind of tucked away booksas far as writing them in the
back of my mind and just kind ofput it away.
And then I was on maternityleave with my first daughter,
who is now 18.
And I got the idea, you know, Ithink I'm going to write a book
, because I was reading DianaGabaldon's Outlander and, you
know, I really fell in love withsort of that brawny Scotsman
(14:29):
and the feisty Sassanach, youknow, and I thought, oh, this
sounds like such a fun dynamicand I really wanted to explore
it on my own.
So I wrote a Scottishhistorical romance and then I
went to a local writers groupmeeting, pregnant and with my
second daughter at this pointbecause now I'm at this point
and we had done this sort ofexchange of books with one
(14:51):
another and I realized at thatpoint in time, oh my gosh, I had
no idea what I was doing.
I was horrible.
So I'm super type A In fact Ilike to joke that I'm so type A,
I'm 12, point in time's newRoman font and at that point in
time I just completely stoppedeverything.
I didn't write a single word.
I devoted the next five years tolearning everything that I
(15:12):
possibly could about the craftof writing.
I listened to books on CD, sothat'll tell you kind of how old
, how long ago that was.
I went to conferences, Iattended workshops, I bought
packets online to work throughon my own.
I became almost obsessed withlearning everything that I
possibly could about writing.
So then I finally sat down andI wrote what was my first
(15:35):
historical romance, Deception ofa Highlander.
And I finally wrote that out.
I gave it to some of my friendsand they said Madeline, this is
really good, you should submitit to some contests.
And so I submitted it to threenationwide contests and it
finaled in all three.
And then it won first place inall three and it finaled in all
(15:56):
three.
And then it won first place inall three.
And so then I thought, okay,well, maybe my book isn't, as
maybe my writing has at leastgotten better after all of this
work that I've done.
And so I went to a conferenceand my dream agent at the time
happened to be there and Ipitched to her and she ended up
offering representation.
And so it was really wonderful.
And I do joke that I didn'thave, you know, the list of
(16:17):
rejected agents, like a lot ofpeople do, but it's also because
I rejected myself first and soso I sold that first three book
series to a small press and thenI actually kind of started
doing some self-publishing inbetween because the books were
taking a little bit longer tocome out and I had friends who
(16:38):
were in self-publishing andthey're like oh well, we could
do an anthology and you coulduse it as like a novella for
something and I thought, OK,that's perfect.
So that's kind of how I got myfeet wet with that.
And at that time I also hadbeen approached by Harlequin
Historical because they my agenthad submitted to them and they
(16:58):
wanted to publish my books.
So I was writing with HarlequinHistorical but also writing
self-publishing on my own, and Idid learn that with
self-publishing there's a lot ofmoney to be made in
self-publishing butunfortunately you do have to put
out a book every other month.
So I was still working.
I was a business analyst andfor some of these years as well
I was also a single mother.
(17:19):
Which is sort of where Emmabeing a single mother comes from
is a lot of my personalexperience in the book lovers
library.
So I was working a full timejob.
My kids were in every activityunder the sun, and my kids
always come first, no matterwhat.
And for I'd say the last, likethree years of me working my day
job, I was writing six to eightromances a year.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh my gosh, that's a lot of books.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah.
So I mean, I really do thinkthat for over a decade I
probably got about four hours ofsleep a night, just with as
much as I was trying to learnand do and and, and I didn't
want to sacrifice any of thattime for my kids, and so I would
wake up at like three or fouro'clock in the morning and work,
and then when they would go tobed I would work some more, but
(18:07):
I never took any time away fromthem.
So you know, I had been doingthis for a while.
I was exhausted and at work thewriting was kind of on the wall
.
People were being laid off andI told my husband because I'm
married now my own Mr Fisk and Itold my husband, you know, if I
get laid off, I think I wouldlike to just write full time, to
(18:28):
just give it a shot because I'mtired, and yeah, and so he said
OK, and so I ended up gettinglaid off and it's horrible to
say, but it was a very joyousexperience for me because I was
so looking forward to having theentire house to myself.
I mean, even for for those yearsthat I was writing, I have my
(18:49):
own office now, but for amajority of it, I was working in
the middle of the living roomand trying to be on deadline.
Working in the middle of theliving room and trying to be on
deadline.
Working in the middle of theliving room with two kids who
always need mama.
You know it's not super easy.
So I thought, oh, this is goingto be amazing after over, like
you know, gosh, I think at thispoint it had been like, you know
, 13 years finally getting to behome by myself, have the house
(19:10):
to myself, the quiet and justright.
And so this was February 2020.
The pandemic happened, likethree weeks later, and I was
totally robbed Because nobodyleft for a long time.
In fact, my husband's employerstill has.
They actually ended up sellingtheir office building, so he
works from home all the time.
(19:31):
He's never, never at the office.
And but you know, it did giveme the opportunity to really
devote myself to the historicalresearch that was necessary to
write the Last Bookshop inLondon.
That was my first historicalfiction that I wrote and it
released in 2021.
And when that book came out, Itechnically was a USA Today
(19:51):
bestselling author, butadmittedly it's because I was in
an anthology with otherhistorical romance authors who
were much bigger names than Iwas and who published that book.
The Last Bookshop in London.
Yes, that was with HanoverSquare Press, which is the
current publisher that I'm stillwith, which is under
HarperCollins.
And so I had really hoped thatI would at least hit the USA
(20:14):
today bestseller list to sort ofhave that honor in my own right
.
And my girlfriend called, likeyou know, a week after the book
had come out and she said, oh mygosh, you hit the USA today
bestseller list.
And I was just completely overthe moon, um, and then later on
that night I was driving to mydaughter to dance and I got a
phone call on speaker from myeditor and I answered it and, um
(20:36):
, and he said I want to let youknow that you hit.
And I'm thinking, oh no, he'sgoing to say the USA Today
bestseller list.
And my youngest, who has likeno filter, is going to say, oh,
she knows, her friend alreadytold her.
And he said you hit numbereight on the New York times.
And, and you know, here I am,like you know, 14 years into
(20:59):
this, like blood, sweat andtears, over over 35 books
written, being exhausted for somuch of this, sacrificing so
much, and to finally hit the NewYork Times, which is an
accomplishment.
I never, ever dreamed that Iwould hit and I just burst into
tears.
And then I went home and I didlaundry, because mom life
doesn't stop, no matter whathappens.
But I had a glass of wine tocelebrate while I did it.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And for our listeners , you have written 43 books.
That's incredible.
Let's talk about writing.
Do you have a specific order ofpreparation, research, outline
writing and editing?
Are you more of a free flowwriter?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I do all of my research up front.
So I do about 10 months worthof research.
In that time I also travel onlocation and I get to do a lot
of on-hand research on site,which is huge for helping just
really bring the story to lifefor me.
And then I go through and Icreate all of the characters
because I feel like thecharacters.
You know they say that withnonfiction.
(21:55):
If you want to read about whathappened, you read nonfiction.
If you want to know how peoplefelt, you read historical
fiction.
And so the characters are theheartbeat of the story and their
integral to really making asuccessful historical fiction.
So they come before the plotand then the plot comes and I do
a very detailed and thoroughone, probably gosh.
(22:16):
I probably write like about 15or 20 percent of the book just
with the plot, and then I andthen I and then I write the book
in about two months.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm impressed.
Thank you.
Did you have successfinancially with your
self-published books?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I did when I was putting out a book every other
month.
But I did learn that that wasnot enjoyable for me.
I had an editor who would makecomments and say the heroine
just called the hero the lasthero's name.
You know I can understand whyand you know it was just really
for me it was hard to connect tothe characters when I was
(22:52):
having to just pump them out.
I'm able to take a good solidyear on my books now with my
historical fiction and it'shonestly a dream come true, just
getting to really sit in thatstory and get to absorb
everything and really get toknow inside and out all of my
characters.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's been wonderful and it shows.
I mean, the Book Lovers Libraryis a beautifully written book.
The characters are deep, alittle complicated.
You have the background ofWorld War II.
I thought it was wonderful.
Now let's talk about books.
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So I am currently reading the Good Daughters,
which is a debut that is comingout soon.
Bridget Dale is the author'sname and it's called the Good
Daughters and it is a book aboutthe women's suffragette
movement and women who reallyyou wouldn't expect to be
friends, but how they cometogether and really help to
(23:45):
support one another and alsoreally further the suffragette
movement.
And it's, like I said, a debut.
I'm really enjoying it so farand I'm looking forward to it
coming out and getting to helpspread the word.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Reading advanced reader copies is such a treat
and it's so much funrecommending books to other
readers.
I just love that part of my job.
Madeline, thank you so much forbeing a guest on the show.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you and,
as I've said many times, I lovedthe Book Lovers Library and I
really enjoyed getting to chatwith you and, as I've said many
times, I loved the Book Lover'sLibrary and I really enjoyed
getting to chat with you too.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
This has been so fun.
Thank you for having me.
You've been listening to myconversation with Madeline
Martin about her latest novel,the Book Lover's Library.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
(24:41):
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
(25:03):
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, Mandy
Jackson-Beverly, Theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,Adrian Otterhan, and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.