June 16, 2025 • 41 mins
This episode is sponsored by Saturn Press!
Hey indie bookshops!
Did you know that greeting cards are a fantastic way for bookshops to boost sales? Saturn Press creates beautiful, handcrafted letterpress cards that customers love to purchase alongside books, helping bookshops grow and thrive.
As a thank you for tuning in to The Bookshop Podcast, Saturn Press is offering indie bookshops 10% off your first order! Just use the code BOOKSHOP10 at checkout and discover how adding cards to your bookshop can make a big difference to your bottom line.
Here's to supporting local bookshops, one card at a time.
https://www.saturnpresscards.com/
In this episode, I chat with Pascale Beale, who shares her culinary journey from a French-English upbringing to becoming a California cookbook author and cooking instructor. Her philosophy on food has evolved significantly over the decades, shifting from traditional French cuisine to a Mediterranean-style approach that emphasizes seasonal vegetables and fish.
The transformation in Pascale's cooking philosophy mirrors broader cultural shifts. Where once her cooking classes featured red meat prominently, today she finds students gravitating toward vegetable-centric, lighter fare. This evolution reflects both the natural influence of California's climate and changing attitudes toward health and sustainability. Her deep commitment to seasonal eating, instilled by her grandmother in the French Alps, remains the foundation of everything she creates.
What makes Pascale's story particularly fascinating is her unconventional path. After fifteen years in property development and financial management, she returned to her first love – cooking – establishing Pascale's Kitchen cooking school in Santa Barbara. Her business background provided unexpected preparation for entrepreneurship, though she notes the challenges of wearing "all the hats" in a small business. The pandemic pushed her creativity further, developing food photography skills that allowed her to shoot her entire "Flavour" cookbook using just her smartphone.
Now embarking on a new multimedia cookbook project that combines text, audio, and music, Pascale continues to reinvent how we experience food through media.
Subscribe to hear more conversations with culinary innovators and storytellers who, like Pascale, remind us that food is far more than ingredients – it's about connection, tradition, and the joy of sharing.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to Episode 294, and it's brought to you by
Saturn Press.
Code 294, and it's brought toyou by Saturn Press.
Hey, indie bookshops, did youknow that greeting cards are a
fantastic way for bookshops toboost sales?
Saturn Press creates beautifulhandcrafted letterpress cards
(00:59):
that customers love to purchasealongside books, helping
bookshops grow and thrive.
As a thank you for tuning intothe Bookshop Podcast, saturn
Press is offering indiebookshops 10% off your first
order.
Just use the code BOOKSHOP10 atcheckout and discover how
adding cards to your bookshopcan make a big difference to
your bottom line.
Here's to supporting localbookshops, one card at a time.
(01:20):
Wwwsaturnpresscardscom.
As a footnote, I was inChaucer's Books in Santa Barbara
yesterday and picked up someSaturn Press cards.
They are gorgeous.
I purchased one called Feet youMay Meet and it has little
animal tracks on it.
It's beautiful.
I've also ordered a couple ofsets of box cards.
One is a cream card and at thecenter of the top of the page it
(01:44):
has a little typewriter inblack, and the other one is the
same cardstock but with a littlefeather ink pen at the top.
Check out your local indiebookshop and ask them if they
sell Saturn Press cards.
Okay, now here's this week'sepisode.
Pascal Bill grew up in Englandand France, surrounded by a
family which has always beenpassionate about food, wine and
(02:06):
the arts.
She was taught to cook by herFrench mother and grandmother.
After graduating from businessschool in London and 15 years
working in the property andfinancial markets in California,
pascal returned to her firstpassion cooking.
She has, over the past 18 years, written 11 cookery books,
hundreds of articles for localnewspapers, food magazines and
(02:30):
is a multi-award-winningcolumnist for Edible Santa
Barbara.
Her first cookbooks a menu ofall seasons spring, summer,
autumn and winter focused onMediterranean-style seasonal
eating.
Hi, pascale, and welcome to theshow.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, first of all, Mandy, thank you so much for
inviting me on your show.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I'm delighted to be here and I'm delighted to have
you here.
After looking at your cookbooksand chatting with you in Los
Angeles, I would love to knowhow your philosophy on food,
eating and cooking has evolvedsince making apricot jam as a
child with your grandmother tocreating Pascal's Kitchen in
Santa Barbara.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh gosh.
Well, yes, it has.
It has evolved over the decadesthat I've been cooking.
I think one of the biggestchanges is the amount of meat
that we used to eat.
My grandmother came fromNormandy and she cooked what we
think of as classic French food.
I mean, if you open JuliaChild's Mastering the Art of
(03:31):
French Cooking and you read anyof those recipes, I read that
and I read that's mygrandmother's food.
So there was lots of butter,lots of cream, and there was
always some kind of protein,often lamb or pork or chicken or
whatever with every meal withfish and fish.
(03:51):
I grew up in France and inEngland and in England, where I
lived with my mum, we ate asimpler diet, a simpler, sort of
more Mediterranean in style,and that's very much my mother's
cooking and she would also cookIndian food and cook North
African food and just we had asort of more international
(04:13):
cuisine.
And when I came to Californiaand started the cooking school,
after working in another fieldfor the first 12 years that I
was here, but when I finallyopened the cooking school and I
look back at those menus, Ithink almost every other class
was red meat, beef or lamb.
And now when I teach classes,there is no red meat.
(04:35):
If I put red meat on the menu,I cannot fill a class, and I
think that might be a reflectionof this region, of this area.
That might be a reflection ofthis region, of this area.
So my the food has gone from, Iguess, a more classic type of
French cooking to a much moreMediterranean, really heavy
vegetable and fish focused diet,compared to and I don't mean
(04:58):
diet as in the diet, I just meanthe way of eating compared to
what I ate before yeah, I Iagree with you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Especially along coastal California we definitely
have a kind of Mediterraneanway of life and eating it
changes a little once we startto get inland California towards
the mountains.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, but I think that's also a reflection of this
climate.
The climate lends itself tothat type of cooking.
We don't live in pouring rain.
It's not horrible and damp theway it was in England, so I
think the climate itself lendsitself.
You eat, particularly in thesummer months, lots of salad,
light food, and I know thatthat's what my students ask me
(05:39):
for.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yes, the California climate is definitely a
reflection of the food we growand eat.
You mentioned that your motherused recipes from different
countries.
Yes, and I'm guessing she useda lot of different spices.
So, being French and English,what did both cultures teach you
about buying food, cooking andflavors?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So I learned to cook really the basics with both my
mother and my grandmother and mygrandmother really took me
under her wing and I would goshopping with her and she was
very good at teaching me and itwas really by osmosis.
It wasn't her saying, right,today we're going to have a
lesson on picking cheese orsomething.
(06:20):
No, I just went with her allthe time and in the course of
observing her buying fruit andwhat she looked for, and she
would tell me certain things.
You know why am I picking thispeach as opposed to this peach?
She was very, very particularabout things and she lives in
the French Alps.
So in the French Alps, becauseof the altitude and obviously
(06:43):
the longer winter, everythingarrived later.
So growing up for me apricotsand cherries were very much
midsummer fruit, whereas hereyou get apricots and cherries in
late spring, so they're atleast a month or more earlier
(07:04):
here in California than theywere in the Alps.
When I was a child In London Iwas just thinking about this.
The greengrocers around thecorner during the winter months.
I mean it was pretty dismal, Ithink some of the food.
It's much, much better now.
You have fabulous greengrocersin London and you can just get
(07:27):
amazing things.
But as a child, then what wasavailable was, I mean, obviously
everything was very seasonal,and I think that's the biggest
difference is that I grew upeating and I think most people,
if they are 30 or 40 years oldor older you grew up eating
seasoning because that's whatwas available.
(07:47):
You didn't have this hugeworldwide shipping of product
where, everything you know, youcan get apricots here in
December, which is nonsensicalto me because they don't taste
good.
So when you grow up eating thethings that are literally just
(08:14):
picked, they have a completelydifferent quality of flavor, of
taste, of everything about it isdifferent, and I have tried,
wherever I've lived, to justfind what's in season and what's
at its best.
What's at its best, I mean,when you bite into a tomato, you
know a big, fat, juicy,heirloom tomato that's been
heated by the sun and it's gotall this, I mean, and the flavor
(08:36):
is incredible.
And then you get a tomato inthe middle of winter that is
mealy and dry and has no flavor.
There's the prime differencebetween the two.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yes, I think if we're lucky enough to be able to
choose what we eat, then eatfruit and vegetables that are
seasonal.
Yeah, you just can't beat theflavor.
Pascal, our childhoods aresimilar.
I grew up in Tasmania,australia, the little
heart-shaped island right downthe south of the mainland of
Australia.
It was a cooler climate and wehad fabulous apples and pears.
(09:04):
Oh, my goodness, they weredelicious.
Yes, we had great apples andpears, fantastic, oh yeah, so
crisp and juicy and delicious.
But then when I moved to EnglandI think it was 82, I think I
survived on peas, eggs and toastbecause there wasn't a lot to
choose from and either I don'tremember farmer's markets or I
(09:26):
wasn't doing the farmer's marketthing at that stage of my life.
But now when I've gone back toEngland or Ireland, oh my
goodness, the produce isfantastic.
There seems to be morecommunity markets, more farmer's
markets and the food iswonderful.
When I first moved fromAustralia to London, then London
to Los Angeles, I think I'donly ever seen maybe an iceberg
(09:50):
lettuce or perhaps romaine.
I honestly can't remember,because when I was younger, dad
grew all our vegetables butthere wasn't a lot of choice
when it came to lettuce orgreens.
But when I moved to Los AngelesI remember there was a
supermarket underneath theBeverly Center was kind of a
healthy foo-foo kind of upmarketsupermarket and I was standing
(10:12):
there one day I went to getlettuce and I was looking at the
lettuce and I went oh mygoodness, there must have been
15 different types of greens andlettuce and endive.
And oh my goodness, it wasextraordinary seeing that for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean in London, you know, you had, you
know your basic cost lettuce,maybe the equivalent of a butter
lettuce or something.
But in France you know thefrise and all the chicories and
the endives and I mean all ofthose things and those were sort
of staples in French markets.
(10:49):
So it took a while for that tocome over to England.
My mother made lots of curriesand dals and I always remember
sort of lots of spices and afood that heats, that warms you.
We're big soup eaters in ourfamily, so there's always some
kind of soup going and shedefinitely delved into foods
(11:12):
from other countries, much more,much more so than my
grandmother.
My grandmother was pretty muchstrictly French, with forays
into a little bit of Italianfood.
They live very, very close tothe Italian border.
I mean literally it was 12, 15kilometers away.
You had to drive up a mountainpass to get there, but in terms
of mileage it's not that far.
But we would drive to Italy togo and get the ingredients.
(11:35):
Because that's what you did yougot the things at their source,
which seems crazy, but that'show close it was.
So you know.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Now you have studied and worked in business and
marketing, property development,invested in restaurants and
financial management to raisecapital for small businesses.
How did you go from there toopening up your cooking school,
pascal's Kitchen?
What I love about your story,pascal, is that when you moved
from London over here to LosAngeles, you had nothing to do
(12:06):
with cooking, right?
Not at all.
How?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
did that happen?
I came here to work in theproperty development business
and I had been to businessschool and came out to work for
one year in the propertybusiness and that turned into
two years, turned into fiveyears and basically I've never
gone back.
And during that whole time wedid a lot of business
(12:32):
entertaining, and the businessmeant that we were working with
the same crew of people for many, many months on a project and
we would often have dinnersafter work and, rather than
going out, everyone would comeback and I'd cook.
I would note down what everyonepreferred to eat and what I had
(12:53):
made, so I wasn't repeatingmyself.
And this went on for a numberof years.
And during that timeframe in LAwe had lots of friends in the
restaurant business, because welove going out to eat and that
was sort of my the big splurge.
That was always.
You know, going out to eat wasthe best treat.
And so I made friends withdifferent chefs.
(13:15):
Some of them were very kind andlet me come and do a mini stage
in their kitchens.
And during that time I realizeda number of things.
One is that I never wanted toown a restaurant.
I invested in restaurants.
I don't know that I would dothat again, but I did invest in
a couple of restaurants Not verymuch, thankfully, and
(13:36):
thankfully the ones that Iinvested in were successful.
So I also realized that what Ithought I knew about cooking was
really a drop in the bucketsand that I had so much more to
learn to be able to produce foodat a level that was well, even
(13:57):
even if I was aspiring to becertainly the restaurant that I
went to where I did the stage.
So after three days of beingthere and I did this a couple of
times I realized that I neededto learn a lot more.
I had to push my boundaries,which I did over the course of
the next five, ten years.
And really it was when I movedto Santa Barbara and my work had
(14:21):
changed.
I just had my daughter and Ilooked and I was doing some
financial management and raisingcapital for small businesses.
It sort of just happened.
Rather than somebody saying, oh, why don't you open a
restaurant, I said, well, no,you know, I've got a small child
and we want to be able totravel.
But I could do what I want to doin a restaurant if I did it as
(14:44):
a cooking school and I didn'thave a business plan, I just
went.
I'm going to open a cookingschool.
Let's just start teachingpeople to cook.
And it really came about veryquickly and I started every
single class since the verybeginning.
I started in 1999.
So this is 26 years and everysingle class has been a
(15:09):
three-course meal, because Ilike to teach about timing.
I think that's the biggestchallenge people putting a whole
meal together, a three-coursemeal together.
It stresses a lot of people andso I teach about timing and we
cook together for about twohours and then sit down and eat
the meal.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well, it's definitely working because your classes
are selling out.
So people are interested inthis whole idea of timing your
menu or timing your dinner party.
Honestly, I think people seemto be getting more into the idea
of having dinner parties.
In the 50s and 60s it was apopular thing to do.
Perhaps it's a rebound afterCOVID.
(15:46):
We want to be around peoplesharing food again, and I
understand why the timing of ameal is important to people.
Now are you finding, as you'rechatting with your students,
that there seems to be aninterest in planning a dinner
party and the menu again?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I think the pandemic had a huge impact on people's
relationship with their kitchen,some of them rediscovering
their kitchens and rediscoveringcooking because they had really
got away from that and wheneveryone was in lockdown we just
sat there going, okay, we needto cook, and I think it helped
(16:25):
people feel more connected andalso, I think, the results of
the pandemic people realizedthat in fact, when they go out
to eat or when they share a mealwith people, you are in contact
with people and having anexperience that is very
different to talking to somebodyon the phone or so constantly
(16:45):
being forced to eat at home whenfinally things opened up to
then be able to share that withother people, I think is very
special.
I hope that dinner partieshaven't gone away.
I love them.
I quite like impromptugatherings rather than planning
something weeks or months inadvance.
But just you know, theimpromptu Sunday lunch, or I
(17:09):
think that those are lovely oran impromptu picnic.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
With that in mind, what ideas can you share with
people who shop at the farmer'smarkets?
They come home and they'rethinking, okay, how can I
prepare everything so that it'sready for me to cook and use
during the week?
Because I think for a lot ofpeople coming home from work
having to prep food it can be areal pain because you're
exhausted.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
So I again.
Everything is seasonal for me,so it really depends on what's
in season.
I make a batch of vegetablestock or chicken stock, so I
have batches of that available,so it makes making a soup or a
stew very simple, yeah, but Ilove how you do that, how you
(17:53):
prepare that soup, that base.
Well, I use all the trimmings.
So, as I'm cooking during theweek, if I'm using lots of
parsley, I keep all the parsleystems.
If I'm peeling onions whateverI keep the onion, the outer
layer of the onions.
If I've used leeks, I chop offthe leek tops and keep those.
If I've used carrots, I peelthe carrotsek tops and keep
(18:14):
those.
If I've used carrots, I peelthe carrots, I keep the carrot
peel.
All of this goes into.
I have a large bag that I keepin my freezer and I put all of
those things into the freezerand then once a week I pull out
the bag, put everything into abig stock pot and fill it with
cold water and simmer that for30 to 40 minutes and you have
(18:35):
this beautiful, fragrantvegetable stock.
It's super simple and then usethat to then make soups or to
use I freeze it in differentsize containers.
So sometimes I'll put some ofit into an ice cube tray because
you know, sometimes when you'remaking a pasta or you have rice
or you have you've cooked achicken or you've cooked a fish
(18:56):
and you think it needs a littlestock, this is too dry.
You don't want to put water inthere.
So if you but you don't want todefrost a huge gallon thing of
stock, so that's where the icecubes come in, very handy.
So if you put stock into an icecube tray and freeze it and
then you can pop the ice cubesof stock and you only need one
or two just to give it theliquid that it needs to cook.
(19:18):
So I do that every week.
I have a friend who I went overto her house one day and we were
chatting and talking aboutthings and she said oh, it's
nearly lunchtime, do you want tostay?
And she goes I haven't got much, do she's French?
And she goes let's do a TDF.
I looked at her and I went aTDF, tdf, what?
What does that mean?
She goes ah, tour de frigidaire, a tour of the fridge.
(19:40):
And so we grabbed everythingthat was in the fridge and we
had a look and we said, right,uh, we can make this, this and
this, and I love those.
So I often do vegetable roasts.
It's an impromptu, it it's agreat thing to do.
I go through, you know,whatever I've got, if they're
carrots and courgettes orzucchini, depending on where you
come from and there might besome shallots, there might be
(20:03):
some little potatoes, theremight be whatever it happens to
be, and I get all the vegetablestogether and toss them in olive
oil, some salt and pepper.
I love herbs.
I cook with a lot of herbs andsome herbs in there and roast
that and I might do a bigvegetable roast with a salad.
That's a great midweek meal.
If you have a chicken, youcould roast a chicken on top of
(20:26):
all those vegetables.
A one pan dish, which is supersimple.
I don't like complicated food.
Nothing in it.
There's nothing in any of mycookbooks where you need some
weird piece of equipment or asous vide machine or something.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, when I go through your cookbooks, I've
noticed that that there's notreally anything that I have to
go out and buy to be able toprepare your dishes.
Although, having said that, Isaw on Instagram I guess it was
the other day you had postedthis incredible piece of art.
It was absolutely stunning.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Oh yes, it's a crudité platter, so I do these
big well, I do small ones aswell, but that one was huge.
That one was about two feet byat least two feet long.
It's a giant crudité platterthat had 15 or 16 different
types of vegetables in it, soeach vegetable is prepared.
(21:24):
Now.
That is not complicated, it'sjust time consuming to do.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Well, whatever you call it, it was absolutely
beautiful.
It looked like a painting, apiece of art.
Oh, whatever you call it, itwas absolutely beautiful.
It looked like a painting, apiece of art.
Oh, thank you so much, and Ilove the way you had peas in the
pods and some of them were justopen so you could just get a
little glimpse of the peas inthere.
It was absolutely stunning, andif you'd like to see these
images, go to Instagram andpunch in at Pascals Kitchen.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So on Instagram and this is also an offshoot of what
happened during COVID, becauseI couldn't teach in person, I
started doing Instagram lives,so mini classes, and so within
the feed there are lots and lotsof mini episodes.
Obviously, these things wereshot live, so the conversation
is where you'll see theconversations about what's
(22:14):
happening.
But I put more recently.
There are lots of very shortvideos literally 15 seconds or
less of the creation of a dish,and then I've put the recipe
into the text block.
If you scroll through those youwill come across pictures of
the crédité platters.
No two are alike becauseobviously it depends on what I
(22:36):
can find.
And as through the seasons thecolors change and it's wonderful
to see some of the winter oneshave a completely different
color palette, and we're inspring now, but when we get to
summer it will also have adifferent palette.
And then I make a vinaigretteand a herb pate, which is one of
(22:57):
the things that are that are inthe new book, a season in a jar
.
So I have these seasonal herbpates which I've become
completely obsessed with and Iuse it on everything.
I use it with the vegetables.
So I like to like to make.
You know at the beginning.
I will make a couple of jars ofthis, and it's wonderful in
(23:17):
soups, it's wonderful in pastaor in rice with the roast
vegetables.
It's fantastic on toast with apoached egg on top.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And can people purchase these from you or order
them from you online and thencome and pick them up in Santa
Barbara or have them shipped?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yes, I did not open a .
There's not a physical Pascal'sKitchen shop.
There is an online shop and inthere there are.
I have a whole line of herbsand spices these are dried herbs
and spices and I have a line ofjams and preserves.
There will be in the comingmonths a lot more inventory, but
(23:53):
right now there isn't very muchbecause it's all sold out.
So it's more marmalades andthings at this time of year.
Well, it's just coming intostone fruit season, so as soon
as the stone fruit arrives, thenthere'll be lots of that, and
then oils and vinegars andbeautiful salad bowls and all
sorts of things like that andobviously all the books.
Everything is to complement thebook.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And if anyone living in Santa Barbara wanted to order
one of these gorgeouscruditaire platters, can they do
that and come and pick it up.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, yes, they can do that.
The best way is to just shootme an email.
I mean, I have a menu of thingsthat I offer every week and I
teach bread making, sourdoughbread making, and so there are
things that people can pick upfrom me.
And the crudités plateuse yes,they could absolutely pick that
up from me too.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Now let's talk about sourdough starters, because I
was given one, oh my goodness,at the very start of 2020, like
right when we went into ourfirst lockdown.
And I still have it.
I still make the bread, I loveit, but my starter has become
like a bit of a pet.
Have you named yours?
No, I haven't yet.
But what I have noticed is mylittle guy is kind of seasonal.
(25:05):
You know, when it's warmerweather he will wake up and rise
beautifully, but in the coolerweather he's not so happy.
He gets a little lazy.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But it's another thing where you get back to
seasonal cooking and I havelearned so much from this little
guy Sourdough.
Teach you to be in tune.
You have to be in tune withwhat's going on around you.
And, yeah, during the wintermonths it's colder, so when
you're, when your sourdough um,when the leaven is rising,
obviously it's, it's cold and soit's sitting there going.
Well, I'm just going to take mysweet time doing this.
(25:43):
And then you get to the summerand it's boiling hot.
Then it goes oh, look, heat, Ican grow.
So you have to.
You have to work with theelements.
You can't dictate the elements.
You have to adapt to theelements around you.
I have, I've had a starter nowfor about 16 years and the
person who gave me some of theirstarter had had their starter
(26:06):
for 30 plus years.
So this there are traces ofhere, the starter that go back
nearly five decades, and I bakebread every week.
It's a.
I find it very nurturing.
I love baking bread.
Each time you start, you startwith a clean slate and it's just
this amazing thing and it's sosatisfying when having your own
(26:30):
bread.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And let's not forget to talk about eating it, that
warm bread with a big blob ofIrish butter.
Oh, it's delicious, it's heaven.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yes, yes, lots of salty butter?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yes, exactly, oh, there's just nothing better.
Okay, so your new book, flavor.
I love the way you spell theword flavor, which is
F-L-A-V-O-U-R, which is how Ilearned to spell it too.
And the photography in the bookis gorgeous.
And then I read on and I findout you did all the photography.
(27:06):
Yes, I did.
You are amazing.
You've taken on this new skillof being a food photographer,
and it was brought about by yourlove of food.
What brought this on, and howdid you even start to go about
it?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Again, it's one of these things where you know you
think you have a skill until youare shown that there are still
many, many, many things that youneed to learn.
And there are still many thingsI need to learn.
So my publishing team thepublisher is a small publisher
but one of on the publishingteam one of the owners was also
(27:42):
an incredible photographer namedMike Valbois, and Mike shot the
first nine books and then Iwould do the pictures at the
farmer's market and do theoutdoor images.
And working with him over theyears I learned so much
(28:02):
observing him just the tricks ofthe trade and what one needed
to do with regards to lightingand where light should come from
and what one needed to do withregards to lighting and where
light should come from.
And I don't use artificiallight myself, I shoot everything
in natural daylight.
So almost everything is eithershot outdoors or next to a
(28:23):
window with natural daylight andI have different spots in my
house where I know where thelight is at certain times of day
that's the best light.
So I have trellises and tablesand stools and boards that I
move around to be able tocapture that light.
A lot of the photography, Ithink the acceleration in that
(28:43):
for me happened again duringCOVID, because there was no one
that I could work with becauseI'm stuck at home.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto take all these photographs
myself.
And from those pictures, thepictures from the dishes during
COVID all, not all, but many ofthose ended up in my, the book
(29:05):
that precedes this one, thesalad, the second salad book,
salad two, and that gave me theconfidence to say, right, right,
I can do this new project.
And Flavor was shot.
It took a year to photographbecause it's it is the story of
the flavor of each season.
(29:26):
And so I went to the marketevery week for a year, I mean as
I usually do, but I wouldgather the things and then test
dishes and create dishes fromwhat I had gathered at the
market and then, assuming thosethings worked, the dishes worked
, then photographed them, styledthem.
So I didn't work with a team onthis, because it was shot in
(29:48):
real time as I developed dishes.
And it was a lot more work in away, because when we do the
photo shoots for the books andI'm working with the
photographer and team, we wouldshoot six, seven plus dishes a
day and here max the absolutemaximum that I could do by
(30:11):
myself would be three.
You have to prepare the dish,style it, set it up, shoot it,
break that down and then startagain.
So obviously I had to be quiteorganized in terms of if I had
three dishes a day and then I'mchasing the light, the last one
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Oh my god, I'm running out of light, and what
equipment and camera did you use?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
my mother's a photographer and I think just
being around her I learned quitea lot about photography.
But with Mike I learned a lottoo.
But I have to say that this isan offshoot of what happened
during COVID, because I wasdoing the Instagram Live shows.
Immediately after the InstagramLive I would photograph the
(30:53):
dish that I had shown everybodyand then post it, and that
happened really very quickly, soI was shooting the phone.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So you just used your regular cell phone that you
were using to post on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I got amazing results.
So then I kept doing this withmy phone and I have now
researched.
You know the best phone to getthe results, and I have a phone
which has five lenses and Imount it on a tripod and I can
set all sorts of differentthings on the phone, calibrate
(31:28):
it to give it the mostincredible detail, and so all
the flavor was shot on my phone.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Kudos to you, pascal.
You have become a wonderfulcook, a wonderful teacher and a
wonderful food stylist, butyou've created this whole new
avenue of creativity foryourself.
I love this about getting olderthat we are continually
learning and our curiosity neverdies.
I think that's one of thethings we have to remember Keep
(31:58):
being curious.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, I mean the stylingof food from the very.
So I've done all the styling ofall the books, um, since the
very beginning, and I never wentto a sort of you know, I didn't
do a food photography stylingcourse or anything.
I mean, I've since spoken todifferent people who say, you
know, well, they don't do thisnow, but in old days people
(32:22):
would sort of spray oil onthings or a lacquer to make them
shiny or to do, and so the foodwas inedible.
If you open the flap, theinside flap of the copy, it says
there's a little thing writtenthere.
So we shopped, we cooked, weate, everything in the book was
consumed.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, there's no artificial anything, there's no
substitute.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
When you and I were speaking at the California Club
Lunch with an Author event, youshared a sweet story about your
friendship with Julia Child.
It's the souffle story.
Would you share it again please?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh, the souffle story .
So I was very, very fortunateto know Julia the last five
years of her life and I wouldcook for her many.
I cooked for her many, manytimes and one day I decided that
I would make.
I had read somewhere that sheliked souffle so I thought I
would make her a cheese souffleand I went to pick her up and
(33:23):
when I picked her up and shesaid what's for lunch?
And I just said you'll see,it's the prize.
And we got to the house and thesouffle's in the oven and I took
her out onto the terrace wewere eating outside and went to
get the souffle and I broughtout the souffle.
Her eyes opened wide.
She said, oh my God, souffle.
And I brought out the souffle.
(33:44):
Her eyes opened wide.
She said, oh my God, souffle.
And I put the souffle on thetable and then went back into
the kitchen to get the salad anda couple of other things that I
was going to serve with it.
I was gone, I don't know.
I mean less than 90 secondsmaybe and I put the salad down
on the table than 90 secondsmaybe and I put the salad down
(34:09):
on the table.
Julia had taken the servingspoon and put more than half of
the entire souffle on her plateand she was eating it as fast as
she could.
It was amazing.
I was thrilled because sheliked the souffle.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, it's not only a wonderful compliment but a
wonderful memory to have had ofJulia Child.
I think that's wonderful.
Pascal, one of my lastquestions.
I promise you have had thisbackground with businesses and
finances.
This must have come in handywhen you started Pascal's
Kitchen.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I think the sort of the financial management aspect
of any business was notsomething that I didn't find
that challenging, because it was.
You know, if you're managing areal estate company and you're
managing a cooking school or youknow an online way can be more
challenging because you becomethe wearer of many hats, in some
(35:08):
cases the wearer of all hats.
So you know, one day you're themarketing department, the next
day you're the shippingdepartment, the next day you're.
You know, you're acquiringthings and you're developing
products and then you're writingrecipes.
So there's very little downtimelooking product and then you're
writing recipes.
So there's very little downtime.
And I think for anybody who runsa small business will know this
(35:29):
, you never stop.
It's a sort of continual thing.
There's an advantage, in a way,if you are employed by someone,
because when you, theresponsibility for that is not
yours.
Writing, which is the otherpart of this business, can be
quite solitary.
One spends quite a lot of timealone and developing things.
(35:52):
So I've spoken to a lot ofwriters and they say, well,
sometimes it can be a littlelonely, but and I'm not
developing, I mean, the foodbecomes the character, whereas
I'm not developing a novel wherethere are characters in my head
.
I think about Charles Dickens.
He used to read his text outloud and act out the different
(36:14):
characters as he was writing,and then he would sit down and
write another little bit of textand then stand up and walk
around and, you know, have theconversation as Oliver or
whoever.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well, that's an important part of writing,
especially fiction.
You have to get into yourcharacters' heads, and reading
what you've written out loud Ithink is essential.
I think it was last year.
I had Katie Stokes from EdibleSanta Barbara on the show and
I'm a big fan of the Ediblemagazines.
Can you share a little aboutEdible Santa Barbara?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yes, edible Santa Barbara.
I love, like you, I love thosemagazines.
So Edible was started by TracyRyder and Carol Topalian.
The first one was Edible Ojai.
There are now nearly 80 ediblesaround the country and each of
them really focus on regional,local what's happening in food
and wine in that region and Istarted writing for them 16
(37:13):
years ago and I had written inevery single issue.
I've been fortunate.
Some of those pieces have wonawards, so I'm very pleased with
with that.
I think the edible magazinesare the perfect representation
of local, seasonal food and itreally champions that.
I mean it is the perfectdovetail to everything that I
(37:34):
teach and what I truly believeand also you know what's
reflected in in flavor.
But they're fabulous magazines.
If you go on edible communitiesyou can see they have a map on
their website where the ediblesare so you can find the edible
closest to you.
So some states only have one.
(37:55):
I think California has at least10.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
A lot in California.
Yes, there are.
Pascal.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
It's been great chatting withyou via Zoom and in person in
Los Angeles, and I wish you allthe best writing your new book,
which is From Provence to thePacific.
Oh, that sounds superinteresting, and you get to
travel.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yes, a completely different format.
It is a multimedia book that isavailable on Substack.
It's a subscription-based book,so a chapter a month goes out
and it starts next month.
So I'm very excited about thisproject.
But it also ties in again toseasonal eating and really
(38:39):
taking advantage of what's righton your doorstep.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
And this new format also includes music that you've
chosen, that we can play whilecooking the recipes from your
book.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yes, every single chapter has a playlist and then,
if you want me to read thechapter to you, there's also an
audio version of every chapter,and then embedded in the text
are all sorts of links thatenhance the text, and there's
photography, and there'll berecipes in every chapter that
are part of the story.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, now, with everything going on, I'm really
starting to believe that there'srobots of you, because how does
one person do everything youare doing?
Speaker 2 (39:18):
No, I'm not AI.
I'm not AI.
Yes, I think I have got to thepoint where I need help.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yes, I feel your pain .
I'm in the same boat.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, I think you and I are quite similar in that
regard.
We push the boat out, I think,burning the candles at both ends
, but I really I love writingand I like sharing these stories
, and I think this right now isI think we need stories, I think
we just need that in our livesright now.
(39:52):
Yes, we will always need storiesand circling back to the
language of food and being ableto you think about the cooking
for friends and cooking forpeople.
You are sharing part ofyourself.
It brings people together.
It is well let's hope thatdinner parties are here to stay,
that we can gather around thetable soon.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, Pascal.
Thank you for being on the show.
I love your book, Flavor, andit's just been a real privilege
chatting with you and getting toknow you.
My pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
You've been listening to myconversation with Pascal Bill
from Pascal's Kitchen in SantaBarbara about her new book
Flavor.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
(40:37):
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, instagram
(41:00):
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
(41:22):
executive assistant to MandyAdrian Otterhan and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to Episode 294, and it's brought to you by
Saturn Press.
Code 294, and it's brought toyou by Saturn Press.
Hey, indie bookshops, did youknow that greeting cards are a
fantastic way for bookshops toboost sales?
Saturn Press creates beautifulhandcrafted letterpress cards
(00:59):
that customers love to purchasealongside books, helping
bookshops grow and thrive.
As a thank you for tuning intothe Bookshop Podcast, saturn
Press is offering indiebookshops 10% off your first
order.
Just use the code BOOKSHOP10 atcheckout and discover how
adding cards to your bookshopcan make a big difference to
your bottom line.
Here's to supporting localbookshops, one card at a time.
(01:20):
Wwwsaturnpresscardscom.
As a footnote, I was inChaucer's Books in Santa Barbara
yesterday and picked up someSaturn Press cards.
They are gorgeous.
I purchased one called Feet youMay Meet and it has little
animal tracks on it.
It's beautiful.
I've also ordered a couple ofsets of box cards.
One is a cream card and at thecenter of the top of the page it
(01:44):
has a little typewriter inblack, and the other one is the
same cardstock but with a littlefeather ink pen at the top.
Check out your local indiebookshop and ask them if they
sell Saturn Press cards.
Okay, now here's this week'sepisode.
Pascal Bill grew up in Englandand France, surrounded by a
family which has always beenpassionate about food, wine and
(02:06):
the arts.
She was taught to cook by herFrench mother and grandmother.
After graduating from businessschool in London and 15 years
working in the property andfinancial markets in California,
pascal returned to her firstpassion cooking.
She has, over the past 18 years, written 11 cookery books,
hundreds of articles for localnewspapers, food magazines and
(02:30):
is a multi-award-winningcolumnist for Edible Santa
Barbara.
Her first cookbooks a menu ofall seasons spring, summer,
autumn and winter focused onMediterranean-style seasonal
eating.
Hi, pascale, and welcome to theshow.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, first of all, Mandy, thank you so much for
inviting me on your show.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I'm delighted to be here and I'm delighted to have
you here.
After looking at your cookbooksand chatting with you in Los
Angeles, I would love to knowhow your philosophy on food,
eating and cooking has evolvedsince making apricot jam as a
child with your grandmother tocreating Pascal's Kitchen in
Santa Barbara.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh gosh.
Well, yes, it has.
It has evolved over the decadesthat I've been cooking.
I think one of the biggestchanges is the amount of meat
that we used to eat.
My grandmother came fromNormandy and she cooked what we
think of as classic French food.
I mean, if you open JuliaChild's Mastering the Art of
(03:31):
French Cooking and you read anyof those recipes, I read that
and I read that's mygrandmother's food.
So there was lots of butter,lots of cream, and there was
always some kind of protein,often lamb or pork or chicken or
whatever with every meal withfish and fish.
(03:51):
I grew up in France and inEngland and in England, where I
lived with my mum, we ate asimpler diet, a simpler, sort of
more Mediterranean in style,and that's very much my mother's
cooking and she would also cookIndian food and cook North
African food and just we had asort of more international
(04:13):
cuisine.
And when I came to Californiaand started the cooking school,
after working in another fieldfor the first 12 years that I
was here, but when I finallyopened the cooking school and I
look back at those menus, Ithink almost every other class
was red meat, beef or lamb.
And now when I teach classes,there is no red meat.
(04:35):
If I put red meat on the menu,I cannot fill a class, and I
think that might be a reflectionof this region, of this area.
That might be a reflection ofthis region, of this area.
So my the food has gone from, Iguess, a more classic type of
French cooking to a much moreMediterranean, really heavy
vegetable and fish focused diet,compared to and I don't mean
(04:58):
diet as in the diet, I just meanthe way of eating compared to
what I ate before yeah, I Iagree with you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Especially along coastal California we definitely
have a kind of Mediterraneanway of life and eating it
changes a little once we startto get inland California towards
the mountains.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yes, but I think that's also a reflection of this
climate.
The climate lends itself tothat type of cooking.
We don't live in pouring rain.
It's not horrible and damp theway it was in England, so I
think the climate itself lendsitself.
You eat, particularly in thesummer months, lots of salad,
light food, and I know thatthat's what my students ask me
(05:39):
for.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yes, the California climate is definitely a
reflection of the food we growand eat.
You mentioned that your motherused recipes from different
countries.
Yes, and I'm guessing she useda lot of different spices.
So, being French and English,what did both cultures teach you
about buying food, cooking andflavors?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So I learned to cook really the basics with both my
mother and my grandmother and mygrandmother really took me
under her wing and I would goshopping with her and she was
very good at teaching me and itwas really by osmosis.
It wasn't her saying, right,today we're going to have a
lesson on picking cheese orsomething.
(06:20):
No, I just went with her allthe time and in the course of
observing her buying fruit andwhat she looked for, and she
would tell me certain things.
You know why am I picking thispeach as opposed to this peach?
She was very, very particularabout things and she lives in
the French Alps.
So in the French Alps, becauseof the altitude and obviously
(06:43):
the longer winter, everythingarrived later.
So growing up for me apricotsand cherries were very much
midsummer fruit, whereas hereyou get apricots and cherries in
late spring, so they're atleast a month or more earlier
(07:04):
here in California than theywere in the Alps.
When I was a child In London Iwas just thinking about this.
The greengrocers around thecorner during the winter months.
I mean it was pretty dismal, Ithink some of the food.
It's much, much better now.
You have fabulous greengrocersin London and you can just get
(07:27):
amazing things.
But as a child, then what wasavailable was, I mean, obviously
everything was very seasonal,and I think that's the biggest
difference is that I grew upeating and I think most people,
if they are 30 or 40 years oldor older you grew up eating
seasoning because that's whatwas available.
(07:47):
You didn't have this hugeworldwide shipping of product
where, everything you know, youcan get apricots here in
December, which is nonsensicalto me because they don't taste
good.
So when you grow up eating thethings that are literally just
(08:14):
picked, they have a completelydifferent quality of flavor, of
taste, of everything about it isdifferent, and I have tried,
wherever I've lived, to justfind what's in season and what's
at its best.
What's at its best, I mean,when you bite into a tomato, you
know a big, fat, juicy,heirloom tomato that's been
heated by the sun and it's gotall this, I mean, and the flavor
(08:36):
is incredible.
And then you get a tomato inthe middle of winter that is
mealy and dry and has no flavor.
There's the prime differencebetween the two.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yes, I think if we're lucky enough to be able to
choose what we eat, then eatfruit and vegetables that are
seasonal.
Yeah, you just can't beat theflavor.
Pascal, our childhoods aresimilar.
I grew up in Tasmania,australia, the little
heart-shaped island right downthe south of the mainland of
Australia.
It was a cooler climate and wehad fabulous apples and pears.
(09:04):
Oh, my goodness, they weredelicious.
Yes, we had great apples andpears, fantastic, oh yeah, so
crisp and juicy and delicious.
But then when I moved to EnglandI think it was 82, I think I
survived on peas, eggs and toastbecause there wasn't a lot to
choose from and either I don'tremember farmer's markets or I
(09:26):
wasn't doing the farmer's marketthing at that stage of my life.
But now when I've gone back toEngland or Ireland, oh my
goodness, the produce isfantastic.
There seems to be morecommunity markets, more farmer's
markets and the food iswonderful.
When I first moved fromAustralia to London, then London
to Los Angeles, I think I'donly ever seen maybe an iceberg
(09:50):
lettuce or perhaps romaine.
I honestly can't remember,because when I was younger, dad
grew all our vegetables butthere wasn't a lot of choice
when it came to lettuce orgreens.
But when I moved to Los AngelesI remember there was a
supermarket underneath theBeverly Center was kind of a
healthy foo-foo kind of upmarketsupermarket and I was standing
(10:12):
there one day I went to getlettuce and I was looking at the
lettuce and I went oh mygoodness, there must have been
15 different types of greens andlettuce and endive.
And oh my goodness, it wasextraordinary seeing that for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean in London, you know, you had, you
know your basic cost lettuce,maybe the equivalent of a butter
lettuce or something.
But in France you know thefrise and all the chicories and
the endives and I mean all ofthose things and those were sort
of staples in French markets.
(10:49):
So it took a while for that tocome over to England.
My mother made lots of curriesand dals and I always remember
sort of lots of spices and afood that heats, that warms you.
We're big soup eaters in ourfamily, so there's always some
kind of soup going and shedefinitely delved into foods
(11:12):
from other countries, much more,much more so than my
grandmother.
My grandmother was pretty muchstrictly French, with forays
into a little bit of Italianfood.
They live very, very close tothe Italian border.
I mean literally it was 12, 15kilometers away.
You had to drive up a mountainpass to get there, but in terms
of mileage it's not that far.
But we would drive to Italy togo and get the ingredients.
(11:35):
Because that's what you did yougot the things at their source,
which seems crazy, but that'show close it was.
So you know.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Now you have studied and worked in business and
marketing, property development,invested in restaurants and
financial management to raisecapital for small businesses.
How did you go from there toopening up your cooking school,
pascal's Kitchen?
What I love about your story,pascal, is that when you moved
from London over here to LosAngeles, you had nothing to do
(12:06):
with cooking, right?
Not at all.
How?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
did that happen?
I came here to work in theproperty development business
and I had been to businessschool and came out to work for
one year in the propertybusiness and that turned into
two years, turned into fiveyears and basically I've never
gone back.
And during that whole time wedid a lot of business
(12:32):
entertaining, and the businessmeant that we were working with
the same crew of people for many, many months on a project and
we would often have dinnersafter work and, rather than
going out, everyone would comeback and I'd cook.
I would note down what everyonepreferred to eat and what I had
(12:53):
made, so I wasn't repeatingmyself.
And this went on for a numberof years.
And during that timeframe in LAwe had lots of friends in the
restaurant business, because welove going out to eat and that
was sort of my the big splurge.
That was always.
You know, going out to eat wasthe best treat.
And so I made friends withdifferent chefs.
(13:15):
Some of them were very kind andlet me come and do a mini stage
in their kitchens.
And during that time I realizeda number of things.
One is that I never wanted toown a restaurant.
I invested in restaurants.
I don't know that I would dothat again, but I did invest in
a couple of restaurants Not verymuch, thankfully, and
(13:36):
thankfully the ones that Iinvested in were successful.
So I also realized that what Ithought I knew about cooking was
really a drop in the bucketsand that I had so much more to
learn to be able to produce foodat a level that was well, even
(13:57):
even if I was aspiring to becertainly the restaurant that I
went to where I did the stage.
So after three days of beingthere and I did this a couple of
times I realized that I neededto learn a lot more.
I had to push my boundaries,which I did over the course of
the next five, ten years.
And really it was when I movedto Santa Barbara and my work had
(14:21):
changed.
I just had my daughter and Ilooked and I was doing some
financial management and raisingcapital for small businesses.
It sort of just happened.
Rather than somebody saying, oh, why don't you open a
restaurant, I said, well, no,you know, I've got a small child
and we want to be able totravel.
But I could do what I want to doin a restaurant if I did it as
(14:44):
a cooking school and I didn'thave a business plan, I just
went.
I'm going to open a cookingschool.
Let's just start teachingpeople to cook.
And it really came about veryquickly and I started every
single class since the verybeginning.
I started in 1999.
So this is 26 years and everysingle class has been a
(15:09):
three-course meal, because Ilike to teach about timing.
I think that's the biggestchallenge people putting a whole
meal together, a three-coursemeal together.
It stresses a lot of people andso I teach about timing and we
cook together for about twohours and then sit down and eat
the meal.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well, it's definitely working because your classes
are selling out.
So people are interested inthis whole idea of timing your
menu or timing your dinner party.
Honestly, I think people seemto be getting more into the idea
of having dinner parties.
In the 50s and 60s it was apopular thing to do.
Perhaps it's a rebound afterCOVID.
(15:46):
We want to be around peoplesharing food again, and I
understand why the timing of ameal is important to people.
Now are you finding, as you'rechatting with your students,
that there seems to be aninterest in planning a dinner
party and the menu again?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I think the pandemic had a huge impact on people's
relationship with their kitchen,some of them rediscovering
their kitchens and rediscoveringcooking because they had really
got away from that and wheneveryone was in lockdown we just
sat there going, okay, we needto cook, and I think it helped
(16:25):
people feel more connected andalso, I think, the results of
the pandemic people realizedthat in fact, when they go out
to eat or when they share a mealwith people, you are in contact
with people and having anexperience that is very
different to talking to somebodyon the phone or so constantly
(16:45):
being forced to eat at home whenfinally things opened up to
then be able to share that withother people, I think is very
special.
I hope that dinner partieshaven't gone away.
I love them.
I quite like impromptugatherings rather than planning
something weeks or months inadvance.
But just you know, theimpromptu Sunday lunch, or I
(17:09):
think that those are lovely oran impromptu picnic.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
With that in mind, what ideas can you share with
people who shop at the farmer'smarkets?
They come home and they'rethinking, okay, how can I
prepare everything so that it'sready for me to cook and use
during the week?
Because I think for a lot ofpeople coming home from work
having to prep food it can be areal pain because you're
exhausted.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
So I again.
Everything is seasonal for me,so it really depends on what's
in season.
I make a batch of vegetablestock or chicken stock, so I
have batches of that available,so it makes making a soup or a
stew very simple, yeah, but Ilove how you do that, how you
(17:53):
prepare that soup, that base.
Well, I use all the trimmings.
So, as I'm cooking during theweek, if I'm using lots of
parsley, I keep all the parsleystems.
If I'm peeling onions whateverI keep the onion, the outer
layer of the onions.
If I've used leeks, I chop offthe leek tops and keep those.
If I've used carrots, I peelthe carrotsek tops and keep
(18:14):
those.
If I've used carrots, I peelthe carrots, I keep the carrot
peel.
All of this goes into.
I have a large bag that I keepin my freezer and I put all of
those things into the freezerand then once a week I pull out
the bag, put everything into abig stock pot and fill it with
cold water and simmer that for30 to 40 minutes and you have
(18:35):
this beautiful, fragrantvegetable stock.
It's super simple and then usethat to then make soups or to
use I freeze it in differentsize containers.
So sometimes I'll put some ofit into an ice cube tray because
you know, sometimes when you'remaking a pasta or you have rice
or you have you've cooked achicken or you've cooked a fish
(18:56):
and you think it needs a littlestock, this is too dry.
You don't want to put water inthere.
So if you but you don't want todefrost a huge gallon thing of
stock, so that's where the icecubes come in, very handy.
So if you put stock into an icecube tray and freeze it and
then you can pop the ice cubesof stock and you only need one
or two just to give it theliquid that it needs to cook.
(19:18):
So I do that every week.
I have a friend who I went overto her house one day and we were
chatting and talking aboutthings and she said oh, it's
nearly lunchtime, do you want tostay?
And she goes I haven't got much, do she's French?
And she goes let's do a TDF.
I looked at her and I went aTDF, tdf, what?
What does that mean?
She goes ah, tour de frigidaire, a tour of the fridge.
(19:40):
And so we grabbed everythingthat was in the fridge and we
had a look and we said, right,uh, we can make this, this and
this, and I love those.
So I often do vegetable roasts.
It's an impromptu, it it's agreat thing to do.
I go through, you know,whatever I've got, if they're
carrots and courgettes orzucchini, depending on where you
come from and there might besome shallots, there might be
(20:03):
some little potatoes, theremight be whatever it happens to
be, and I get all the vegetablestogether and toss them in olive
oil, some salt and pepper.
I love herbs.
I cook with a lot of herbs andsome herbs in there and roast
that and I might do a bigvegetable roast with a salad.
That's a great midweek meal.
If you have a chicken, youcould roast a chicken on top of
(20:26):
all those vegetables.
A one pan dish, which is supersimple.
I don't like complicated food.
Nothing in it.
There's nothing in any of mycookbooks where you need some
weird piece of equipment or asous vide machine or something.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, when I go through your cookbooks, I've
noticed that that there's notreally anything that I have to
go out and buy to be able toprepare your dishes.
Although, having said that, Isaw on Instagram I guess it was
the other day you had postedthis incredible piece of art.
It was absolutely stunning.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Oh yes, it's a crudité platter, so I do these
big well, I do small ones aswell, but that one was huge.
That one was about two feet byat least two feet long.
It's a giant crudité platterthat had 15 or 16 different
types of vegetables in it, soeach vegetable is prepared.
(21:24):
Now.
That is not complicated, it'sjust time consuming to do.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Well, whatever you call it, it was absolutely
beautiful.
It looked like a painting, apiece of art.
Oh, whatever you call it, itwas absolutely beautiful.
It looked like a painting, apiece of art.
Oh, thank you so much, and Ilove the way you had peas in the
pods and some of them were justopen so you could just get a
little glimpse of the peas inthere.
It was absolutely stunning, andif you'd like to see these
images, go to Instagram andpunch in at Pascals Kitchen.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So on Instagram and this is also an offshoot of what
happened during COVID, becauseI couldn't teach in person, I
started doing Instagram lives,so mini classes, and so within
the feed there are lots and lotsof mini episodes.
Obviously, these things wereshot live, so the conversation
is where you'll see theconversations about what's
(22:14):
happening.
But I put more recently.
There are lots of very shortvideos literally 15 seconds or
less of the creation of a dish,and then I've put the recipe
into the text block.
If you scroll through those youwill come across pictures of
the crédité platters.
No two are alike becauseobviously it depends on what I
(22:36):
can find.
And as through the seasons thecolors change and it's wonderful
to see some of the winter oneshave a completely different
color palette, and we're inspring now, but when we get to
summer it will also have adifferent palette.
And then I make a vinaigretteand a herb pate, which is one of
(22:57):
the things that are that are inthe new book, a season in a jar
.
So I have these seasonal herbpates which I've become
completely obsessed with and Iuse it on everything.
I use it with the vegetables.
So I like to like to make.
You know at the beginning.
I will make a couple of jars ofthis, and it's wonderful in
(23:17):
soups, it's wonderful in pastaor in rice with the roast
vegetables.
It's fantastic on toast with apoached egg on top.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And can people purchase these from you or order
them from you online and thencome and pick them up in Santa
Barbara or have them shipped?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yes, I did not open a .
There's not a physical Pascal'sKitchen shop.
There is an online shop and inthere there are.
I have a whole line of herbsand spices these are dried herbs
and spices and I have a line ofjams and preserves.
There will be in the comingmonths a lot more inventory, but
(23:53):
right now there isn't very muchbecause it's all sold out.
So it's more marmalades andthings at this time of year.
Well, it's just coming intostone fruit season, so as soon
as the stone fruit arrives, thenthere'll be lots of that, and
then oils and vinegars andbeautiful salad bowls and all
sorts of things like that andobviously all the books.
Everything is to complement thebook.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And if anyone living in Santa Barbara wanted to order
one of these gorgeouscruditaire platters, can they do
that and come and pick it up.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, yes, they can do that.
The best way is to just shootme an email.
I mean, I have a menu of thingsthat I offer every week and I
teach bread making, sourdoughbread making, and so there are
things that people can pick upfrom me.
And the crudités plateuse yes,they could absolutely pick that
up from me too.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Now let's talk about sourdough starters, because I
was given one, oh my goodness,at the very start of 2020, like
right when we went into ourfirst lockdown.
And I still have it.
I still make the bread, I loveit, but my starter has become
like a bit of a pet.
Have you named yours?
No, I haven't yet.
But what I have noticed is mylittle guy is kind of seasonal.
(25:05):
You know, when it's warmerweather he will wake up and rise
beautifully, but in the coolerweather he's not so happy.
He gets a little lazy.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But it's another thing where you get back to
seasonal cooking and I havelearned so much from this little
guy Sourdough.
Teach you to be in tune.
You have to be in tune withwhat's going on around you.
And, yeah, during the wintermonths it's colder, so when
you're, when your sourdough um,when the leaven is rising,
obviously it's, it's cold and soit's sitting there going.
Well, I'm just going to take mysweet time doing this.
(25:43):
And then you get to the summerand it's boiling hot.
Then it goes oh, look, heat, Ican grow.
So you have to.
You have to work with theelements.
You can't dictate the elements.
You have to adapt to theelements around you.
I have, I've had a starter nowfor about 16 years and the
person who gave me some of theirstarter had had their starter
(26:06):
for 30 plus years.
So this there are traces ofhere, the starter that go back
nearly five decades, and I bakebread every week.
It's a.
I find it very nurturing.
I love baking bread.
Each time you start, you startwith a clean slate and it's just
this amazing thing and it's sosatisfying when having your own
(26:30):
bread.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And let's not forget to talk about eating it, that
warm bread with a big blob ofIrish butter.
Oh, it's delicious, it's heaven.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yes, yes, lots of salty butter?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yes, exactly, oh, there's just nothing better.
Okay, so your new book, flavor.
I love the way you spell theword flavor, which is
F-L-A-V-O-U-R, which is how Ilearned to spell it too.
And the photography in the bookis gorgeous.
And then I read on and I findout you did all the photography.
(27:06):
Yes, I did.
You are amazing.
You've taken on this new skillof being a food photographer,
and it was brought about by yourlove of food.
What brought this on, and howdid you even start to go about
it?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Again, it's one of these things where you know you
think you have a skill until youare shown that there are still
many, many, many things that youneed to learn.
And there are still many thingsI need to learn.
So my publishing team thepublisher is a small publisher
but one of on the publishingteam one of the owners was also
(27:42):
an incredible photographer namedMike Valbois, and Mike shot the
first nine books and then Iwould do the pictures at the
farmer's market and do theoutdoor images.
And working with him over theyears I learned so much
(28:02):
observing him just the tricks ofthe trade and what one needed
to do with regards to lightingand where light should come from
and what one needed to do withregards to lighting and where
light should come from.
And I don't use artificiallight myself, I shoot everything
in natural daylight.
So almost everything is eithershot outdoors or next to a
(28:23):
window with natural daylight andI have different spots in my
house where I know where thelight is at certain times of day
that's the best light.
So I have trellises and tablesand stools and boards that I
move around to be able tocapture that light.
A lot of the photography, Ithink the acceleration in that
(28:43):
for me happened again duringCOVID, because there was no one
that I could work with becauseI'm stuck at home.
So I thought, well, I'm goingto take all these photographs
myself.
And from those pictures, thepictures from the dishes during
COVID all, not all, but many ofthose ended up in my, the book
(29:05):
that precedes this one, thesalad, the second salad book,
salad two, and that gave me theconfidence to say, right, right,
I can do this new project.
And Flavor was shot.
It took a year to photographbecause it's it is the story of
the flavor of each season.
(29:26):
And so I went to the marketevery week for a year, I mean as
I usually do, but I wouldgather the things and then test
dishes and create dishes fromwhat I had gathered at the
market and then, assuming thosethings worked, the dishes worked
, then photographed them, styledthem.
So I didn't work with a team onthis, because it was shot in
(29:48):
real time as I developed dishes.
And it was a lot more work in away, because when we do the
photo shoots for the books andI'm working with the
photographer and team, we wouldshoot six, seven plus dishes a
day and here max the absolutemaximum that I could do by
(30:11):
myself would be three.
You have to prepare the dish,style it, set it up, shoot it,
break that down and then startagain.
So obviously I had to be quiteorganized in terms of if I had
three dishes a day and then I'mchasing the light, the last one
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Oh my god, I'm running out of light, and what
equipment and camera did you use?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
my mother's a photographer and I think just
being around her I learned quitea lot about photography.
But with Mike I learned a lottoo.
But I have to say that this isan offshoot of what happened
during COVID, because I wasdoing the Instagram Live shows.
Immediately after the InstagramLive I would photograph the
(30:53):
dish that I had shown everybodyand then post it, and that
happened really very quickly, soI was shooting the phone.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So you just used your regular cell phone that you
were using to post on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I got amazing results.
So then I kept doing this withmy phone and I have now
researched.
You know the best phone to getthe results, and I have a phone
which has five lenses and Imount it on a tripod and I can
set all sorts of differentthings on the phone, calibrate
(31:28):
it to give it the mostincredible detail, and so all
the flavor was shot on my phone.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Kudos to you, pascal.
You have become a wonderfulcook, a wonderful teacher and a
wonderful food stylist, butyou've created this whole new
avenue of creativity foryourself.
I love this about getting olderthat we are continually
learning and our curiosity neverdies.
I think that's one of thethings we have to remember Keep
(31:58):
being curious.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, I mean the stylingof food from the very.
So I've done all the styling ofall the books, um, since the
very beginning, and I never wentto a sort of you know, I didn't
do a food photography stylingcourse or anything.
I mean, I've since spoken todifferent people who say, you
know, well, they don't do thisnow, but in old days people
(32:22):
would sort of spray oil onthings or a lacquer to make them
shiny or to do, and so the foodwas inedible.
If you open the flap, theinside flap of the copy, it says
there's a little thing writtenthere.
So we shopped, we cooked, weate, everything in the book was
consumed.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, there's no artificial anything, there's no
substitute.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
When you and I were speaking at the California Club
Lunch with an Author event, youshared a sweet story about your
friendship with Julia Child.
It's the souffle story.
Would you share it again please?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh, the souffle story .
So I was very, very fortunateto know Julia the last five
years of her life and I wouldcook for her many.
I cooked for her many, manytimes and one day I decided that
I would make.
I had read somewhere that sheliked souffle so I thought I
would make her a cheese souffleand I went to pick her up and
(33:23):
when I picked her up and shesaid what's for lunch?
And I just said you'll see,it's the prize.
And we got to the house and thesouffle's in the oven and I took
her out onto the terrace wewere eating outside and went to
get the souffle and I broughtout the souffle.
Her eyes opened wide.
She said, oh my God, souffle.
And I brought out the souffle.
(33:44):
Her eyes opened wide.
She said, oh my God, souffle.
And I put the souffle on thetable and then went back into
the kitchen to get the salad anda couple of other things that I
was going to serve with it.
I was gone, I don't know.
I mean less than 90 secondsmaybe and I put the salad down
on the table than 90 secondsmaybe and I put the salad down
(34:09):
on the table.
Julia had taken the servingspoon and put more than half of
the entire souffle on her plateand she was eating it as fast as
she could.
It was amazing.
I was thrilled because sheliked the souffle.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, it's not only a wonderful compliment but a
wonderful memory to have had ofJulia Child.
I think that's wonderful.
Pascal, one of my lastquestions.
I promise you have had thisbackground with businesses and
finances.
This must have come in handywhen you started Pascal's
Kitchen.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I think the sort of the financial management aspect
of any business was notsomething that I didn't find
that challenging, because it was.
You know, if you're managing areal estate company and you're
managing a cooking school or youknow an online way can be more
challenging because you becomethe wearer of many hats, in some
(35:08):
cases the wearer of all hats.
So you know, one day you're themarketing department, the next
day you're the shippingdepartment, the next day you're.
You know, you're acquiringthings and you're developing
products and then you're writingrecipes.
So there's very little downtimelooking product and then you're
writing recipes.
So there's very little downtime.
And I think for anybody who runsa small business will know this
(35:29):
, you never stop.
It's a sort of continual thing.
There's an advantage, in a way,if you are employed by someone,
because when you, theresponsibility for that is not
yours.
Writing, which is the otherpart of this business, can be
quite solitary.
One spends quite a lot of timealone and developing things.
(35:52):
So I've spoken to a lot ofwriters and they say, well,
sometimes it can be a littlelonely, but and I'm not
developing, I mean, the foodbecomes the character, whereas
I'm not developing a novel wherethere are characters in my head
.
I think about Charles Dickens.
He used to read his text outloud and act out the different
(36:14):
characters as he was writing,and then he would sit down and
write another little bit of textand then stand up and walk
around and, you know, have theconversation as Oliver or
whoever.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Well, that's an important part of writing,
especially fiction.
You have to get into yourcharacters' heads, and reading
what you've written out loud Ithink is essential.
I think it was last year.
I had Katie Stokes from EdibleSanta Barbara on the show and
I'm a big fan of the Ediblemagazines.
Can you share a little aboutEdible Santa Barbara?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yes, edible Santa Barbara.
I love, like you, I love thosemagazines.
So Edible was started by TracyRyder and Carol Topalian.
The first one was Edible Ojai.
There are now nearly 80 ediblesaround the country and each of
them really focus on regional,local what's happening in food
and wine in that region and Istarted writing for them 16
(37:13):
years ago and I had written inevery single issue.
I've been fortunate.
Some of those pieces have wonawards, so I'm very pleased with
with that.
I think the edible magazinesare the perfect representation
of local, seasonal food and itreally champions that.
I mean it is the perfectdovetail to everything that I
(37:34):
teach and what I truly believeand also you know what's
reflected in in flavor.
But they're fabulous magazines.
If you go on edible communitiesyou can see they have a map on
their website where the ediblesare so you can find the edible
closest to you.
So some states only have one.
(37:55):
I think California has at least10.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
A lot in California.
Yes, there are.
Pascal.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the show.
It's been great chatting withyou via Zoom and in person in
Los Angeles, and I wish you allthe best writing your new book,
which is From Provence to thePacific.
Oh, that sounds superinteresting, and you get to
travel.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yes, a completely different format.
It is a multimedia book that isavailable on Substack.
It's a subscription-based book,so a chapter a month goes out
and it starts next month.
So I'm very excited about thisproject.
But it also ties in again toseasonal eating and really
(38:39):
taking advantage of what's righton your doorstep.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
And this new format also includes music that you've
chosen, that we can play whilecooking the recipes from your
book.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yes, every single chapter has a playlist and then,
if you want me to read thechapter to you, there's also an
audio version of every chapter,and then embedded in the text
are all sorts of links thatenhance the text, and there's
photography, and there'll berecipes in every chapter that
are part of the story.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, now, with everything going on, I'm really
starting to believe that there'srobots of you, because how does
one person do everything youare doing?
Speaker 2 (39:18):
No, I'm not AI.
I'm not AI.
Yes, I think I have got to thepoint where I need help.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yes, I feel your pain .
I'm in the same boat.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, I think you and I are quite similar in that
regard.
We push the boat out, I think,burning the candles at both ends
, but I really I love writingand I like sharing these stories
, and I think this right now isI think we need stories, I think
we just need that in our livesright now.
(39:52):
Yes, we will always need storiesand circling back to the
language of food and being ableto you think about the cooking
for friends and cooking forpeople.
You are sharing part ofyourself.
It brings people together.
It is well let's hope thatdinner parties are here to stay,
that we can gather around thetable soon.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, Pascal.
Thank you for being on the show.
I love your book, Flavor, andit's just been a real privilege
chatting with you and getting toknow you.
My pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me.
You've been listening to myconversation with Pascal Bill
from Pascal's Kitchen in SantaBarbara about her new book
Flavor.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
(40:37):
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, instagram
(41:00):
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
(41:22):
executive assistant to MandyAdrian Otterhan and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.