March 3, 2025 • 32 mins
Discover the intricate layers of family dynamics and cultural identity in The Magnificent Ruins, the debut novel by Nayantara Roy. Set against the vibrant backdrops of Brooklyn and Kolkata, the story centers around Lila, a millennial who inherits her grandfather's crumbling mansion, unleashing a wave of family secrets and legacies that challenge her understanding of self and history.
Nayantara enriches our conversation with her multicultural experiences, navigating the dual identities of a television executive and novelist. Her reflections on the cultural nuances of silence in familial relationships and the complexities of unspoken expectations within traditional Indian contexts resonate deeply, inviting listeners to explore their backgrounds.
As we delve into essential themes, including the process of writing across different mediums, Nayantara shares her unique insights into storytelling, emphasizing the interplay between words and visual narratives. This dialogue addresses sensitive subjects such as inherited trauma and the delicate balance between tradition and personal choice, making it relevant to anyone who has wrestled with their family's legacy.
Join us on this thought-provoking journey as we uncover the inspirations behind The Magnificent Ruins and gain a deeper understanding of how stories shape our identities. Check out the episode for a fascinating look into Nayantara's creative world, and be inspired to explore your own stories. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
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(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to episode 284.
And 84.
Before I get started with theinterview today, I wanted to
(00:53):
share a couple of events I havecoming up.
The first is next Sunday, march9th, between 2 and 4 pm, I will
be in conversation withacclaimed author, poet and
president emerita of PennInternational, jennifer Clement.
This event is at Ojai RootsFarm Shop, 315 North Montgomery
Street in Ojai, california, andyou can sign up for this event
(01:15):
on my website, which iswwwmandijacksonbeverlycom.
Forward slash events.
The other event is the Lunchwith an Author literary series
in Santa Barbara and it will beheld at the Santa Barbara Club
on Thursday April 10th from12.30 to 3pm, and this is with
(01:35):
Edward Humes, the Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist and Penn
Award winning author.
Ed and I will be inconversation speaking about
journalism and his latest bookTotal Garbage how we Can Fix Our
Waste and Heal Our World.
Brilliant book Tickets includea three-course luncheon, coffee
and tea and a copy of TotalGarbage, so I hope to see you
(01:58):
there.
All of these events requirereservation and prepayment and,
once again, you can go to mywebsite at
wwwmandijacksonbeverlycomforward slash events and you can
get your tickets there.
I hope to see you.
We have fabulous authorsscheduled for this series in
2025.
(02:19):
And I hope to see you at theSan Diego Writers Festival on
Saturday, april 5th.
I will be moderating a panelwith Bethann Patrick, megan
Beattie and author Dawn Tripp.
Okay, and here's this week'sinterview.
Nayantara Roy is the author ofthe Magnificent Ruins, which was
(02:40):
a New York Times Editor'sChoice Novel of 2024, an LA
Times Editor's Pick, aWashington Post Best Book, a
People Magazine Best Book, anApple Best Debut, a Hatchet Book
Club Pick, a Lily's LibraryPick and a Gold House Book Club
Pick, amongst others.
Her second novel, sisters ofthe Halved Heart, is forthcoming
(03:01):
from Algonquin Little Brown inthe summer of 2026.
In 2018, roy won the RickDeMarine's Award for her short
story 8C.
Her plays have been performedinternationally in the UK and
India.
She is also the Senior VicePresident of Television at
Sandbox Entertainment, where sheacquires and develops original
(03:21):
scripted series.
Roy lives in Silver Lake, losAngeles.
Hi, tara, and welcome to theshow.
It's lovely to have you hereand congratulations on the
success of the Magnificent Ruinswhich I thoroughly enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Thank you, I mean that means so much.
It's been so wonderful to hearhow people feel about it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yes, that part of writing can be both
nerve-wracking and heartwarming.
Well, let's begin by learningabout your early life in India,
relocating to Los Angeles, andwhat led you to become a
television executive.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I was born in Kolkata , much like Laila, my
protagonist and you know, reallywas born to a family of readers
.
Half my family are finance brosand the other half are
novelists.
My granddad is a novelist, mycousin is a novelist, and when I
sort of finished high school, Iwas curious about what I wanted
(04:15):
to do next.
I didn't want to immediatelythink about it.
My father was very nomadic.
He traveled a lot for work andwe ended up living in places
like South Africa and the UK andI had had a lot of exposure
globally family all over theworld as well and so it was a
natural decision to want tostudy abroad and I did.
(04:36):
I went to school in the US andwhat ended up happening is that
right after I did a bit of workin publishing and it was an
interesting period forpublishing where you were really
seeing the movie studios comein and acquire IP in a way that
they hadn't before.
(04:57):
They were buying books to makeinto TV shows and so on, and all
along I was like maybe I wantto write that novel someday and
my dad was like, yes, on theside, keep going on your career,
my wonderful Asian dad who isactually my person and what
ended up happening is thatworking in that publishing
(05:18):
business sort of made me realizethat what I really wanted to do
was what the televisionexecutives were trying to do.
What I really wanted to do waswhat the television executives
were trying to do, and, like agood Asian child, I once again
went to school to learn how todo that.
I went to graduate school atColumbia and while I was there I
also took a fiction classcalled Other People's Secrets.
(05:38):
It was just an extraordinaryclass and I wrote an essay at
the end of it that semester.
That ended up being the genesisof my book.
But I also moved from New Yorkto LA and got myself a career in
TV.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Do you enjoy your work in television and what do
you gain from it?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I'm so grateful to it .
It has, you know, sort ofprovided me with such stability.
I say that now, but it's areally tumultuous industry and
it's really taught me tounderstand story from a
different perspective, right, ifyou think about it, books and
chapters are very sort of akinto episodic television and I
(06:23):
think when it's good, that canbe an extraordinary experience.
Watching a season of somethingI've also had the pleasure of,
you know sort of seeing thatprocess end, to end myself
taking a book and then workingwith a screenwriter to develop
it into a season of scripts andthen giving notes when it comes
back to me fully in cuts, that,I think, is an extraordinary
(06:47):
experience to have for any sortof creator.
So I'm very grateful to thebusiness for having given me
that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think being on a set or part of a crew
in film or TV and also theater,is a wonderful stepping stone
to becoming a writer, becauseyou learn about dialogue.
You also learn about action andyou learn about that beautiful
pause, that moment of reflection, for either the reader or the
(07:17):
viewer.
So, yeah, I think that it'sjust such a wonderful
introduction to becoming awriter.
Sounds like you've been on aset.
Yes, I have.
I was a costume designer andstylist for many years.
I worked with photographers infashion, in beauty and a lot of
music videos and live concerts,and my husband was a key grip.
(07:39):
He's now retired.
So, yes, I have been on manysets and sometimes the chaos is
what kind of gives you thatadrenaline to make sure
everything comes together.
It's such a wonderful learningtool and it's not until you've
been on a set that you actuallyunderstand what goes in to the
making of a film or a video or acommercial.
(08:01):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Exactly, and it's so humbling because you know up
until the agent reads it or yourreaders read a first draft.
Writing a novel is a prettyisolating experience.
It's you and your laptop and ina way it's also much more
focused, much more.
There's much more room forthought and reflection.
(08:25):
For television it takes avillage and I would argue that
you know it takes a village tosee a novel through to
publication and my editor reallyhelped shape this novel into
what it is.
But it does take a village intelevision in a way that you
don't see.
I don't know if most peoplethey probably don't realize that
one season of television costsbetween 60 and 80 million
(08:48):
dollars on a streaming serviceto make and that's an
extraordinary amount of moneyand responsibility in people's
time.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, it sure is, Tara .
Can you remember when writingentered your life, because
you're not only a writer ofnovels, but you've also written
for theater life.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Because you're not only a writer of novels but
you've also written for theatre.
Yeah, and in high school I waskind of known as the writer.
I won writing contests.
I was editor of my schoolmagazine.
It was always assumed that Iwould be a writer of some sort.
But where I come from, it isn'treally a career to pursue right
away.
It's not like here where Iimagine you could just major in
(09:29):
writing and then go to schoolslike Iowa or Columbia for
writing for graduate school.
It's not quite like that inIndia and it certainly wasn't in
the 80s and 90s.
There are magnificent novelistscoming out of India every day,
but I'm sure they would attestto the fact that it is a path
not often trodden.
I think writing was always inthe water for me.
(09:51):
I can't think of a single pointin my life where I wasn't
writing something.
I wrote a short story beforegraduate school that won a prize
.
It sort of drifted in and outof my life, won a prize.
It sort of drifted in and outof my life.
I took that class at Columbiaand it became what would
(10:11):
eventually be my first novel.
But all through that I waswriting right out of school.
I was writing in plays inBombay that were eventually
produced and performed, and so Ithink I've always had this dual
identity.
Once I entered my televisioncareer in earnest I started sort
of feeling a little moreimposter syndrome, you know
(10:32):
around writing I was like, well,hi, I'm Tara, I'm a television
executive.
It's much harder.
And my friend Rachel the otherday at her party was like this
is my friend Tara, she's anovelist.
And I was like, oh, is myfriend Tara, she's a novelist.
And I was like, oh, I guess Iam.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh, I think that's a wonderful thing about life.
We are constantly changing,discovering different things in
our life and becoming the personwe end up being.
I think that's exciting For ourlisteners.
I'd love it if you could sharethe synopsis of your novel the
Magnificent Ruins.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
In the Magnificent Ruins you meet Lila, who is a
millennial.
She's 29 when we first meet herand she lives in Brooklyn.
She's Indian American, she'ssuccessful, she's a books editor
at a major publishing housewhich has just been acquired by
a bigger company, and she's amillennial in every way.
(11:29):
She makes complex choices abouther career, her lovers, her
family, and she sort of alsolets life happen to her.
Lila doesn't proactively go andget life.
You know that.
You get the sense that she'scoasting along and then one
morning Lila wakes up andrealizes that her grandfather is
dead her maternal grandfatherall the way in Kolkata in India,
(11:53):
and then she finds out he'salso left the family mansion to
her, this decaying, crumblingproperty that the entire family
still lives in her extendedfamily, her mother and her
grandmother and she's seen noneof them in a long time.
So Laila must make her way backto India, and when she does
(12:13):
that she has to deal with a lotmore than paperwork.
There's a lot of secrets andinheritances that aren't just
tangible, that aren't just ahouse.
The story, ultimately, is astory of what we inherit, that
runs in our veins.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Something that captivated me in the story is
the fact that the house becomesa character.
As you said, the walls aresteeped with stories and secrets
.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And it's been a real revelation to me to see how
people respond to the house.
You know the cover designerimmediately wanted to put it
right on the jacket.
You know my editor sort ofcalled it like you did just now,
intuitively its own character,I think, when a generation, when
(13:01):
generations of family own ahistoric property and those
houses in Kolkata, the Zamindarhouses, come with a lot of
dubious post-colonial legacy butthey're a semblance of what
they used to be, but they arestill so breathtaking.
It's inevitable whengenerations pass through homes
(13:22):
like that that there are storiesthat only can be told within
the walls of those houses.
So I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, that was one of the pieces that I really loved
about the story.
Are there parts of the storyand locations and the characters
that are based on real life,your family or friends.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I was born in Kolkata and Laila was born in Kolkata
and while Laila is younger, morereckless, and she sort of took
me by surprise when I waswriting her, you know there are
moments in the novel where I wasjust like, don't do that.
But it was inevitably that shewould go there.
She would do that.
She and I have both lived inBrooklyn, places that we
(14:07):
understand deeply for its milieu, and the idea of being an
insider and an outsider at once,just given how many places I've
lived in, is very real to me.
I wanted to write the bookbecause I wanted to write about
cultures of silence, legacyfamilies, specifically in
(14:29):
Kolkata, that have cultures ofsilence shrouding them, where
one is expected to keep up witha certain facade for the rest of
the world, and you could saymost families do that.
But these families do it insuch a way because there's so
much at stake.
You know, sort of, if you thinkabout the amplified version of
that, it's the royal family,right.
(14:51):
What goes on within privatewalls is never quite told and I
think the darker territory ofthe book sort of wants to, like
Lila, confront that and dealwith that and understand what
parts of her history have shapedher and that continue to shape
(15:14):
her mom, her grandmother and her.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And within the story is an undercurrent of abuse
between a man and a woman livingin the family compound.
Was this facet of unspokenviolence in the initial concept
or did it grow as you wrote thecharacters?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That is an excellent question.
No, the initial sort of idea inmy head, you know, when I was
starting to put the assemblanceof a novel together, was I knew
there would be the house.
In India, these families aremade up of sometimes even 40, 50
(15:50):
people at the same time, and Iknew that people would have to
become composites of each otherand become contained characters.
And at its core I wanted totell the story of three
generations of violence, of howthese women had been impacted
right, and I wanted to tell astory that would also be
(16:10):
enjoyable for people to read.
What then happened over?
It took me seven years to writethe book.
What then happened was that Igave it structure.
I talked to fellow authors,specifically a friend that I was
working with, and I did anoutline, and in that outline it
just seemed necessary to infusenot just the man and the woman
(16:34):
but also the city.
There's an undercurrent ofdanger that sort of wraps itself
around the fate of the city aswell, around the fate of the
house, the couple that are sortof confronting the issue of
violence, and then the threewomen, and it makes it sound
like a really dark book.
But I would say, you knowthere's darkness and light,
(16:56):
which is to me anyone's home.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And you definitely have to have that tension
between characters when you'rewriting an epic family story.
Now can you expand on the ideaof family discipline, respect
and what is spoken of and keptsecret in Indian culture and
expand a little on what youmentioned earlier, the cultures
of silence?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Absolutely.
What was so intriguing to mewhen I was I want to say 25, 26,
and first started thinkingabout it, was that what is
considered discipline in oneculture perfectly normal was
something you could get called.
(17:37):
You know, social security wouldbe at your social services,
would be at your doorstep for itin another country, and the
approach to what is consideredabuse versus love, and there's
this thin line, sort oftrembling, in between those two
things.
That's all coming from a placeof I deeply want my child to
(18:00):
succeed and do well.
I definitely think that theculture in India is not that
different.
When I started talking about it.
You know what happens to Lailahad happened to my
African-American friends, myChinese-American friends.
As it turns out, the way wediscipline children when we are
(18:22):
immigrants, when we arecommunities that really, really
want our kids to succeed,travels across cultures, when
it's not quite understood thatthis in fact could be a legacy
of violence you're passing on.
One of my friends, the authorSunil Yap, has said that the
novelist chewed easy villains.
(18:44):
You know it was reallyimportant for me to track the
ways in which violence hadplayed out over generations, the
ways in which it had beennormalized and shed some light
around the inherited patterns ofthinking versus that's bad,
this is good.
Look how America, you know,sort of says no violence, even
(19:06):
you know, for the most part it'ssort of like this is not great
and that culture does this andit is great.
I just wanted to sort of trackthose patterns and see where
they came from and verbal abuse.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Having been one that has suffered from the effects of
verbal abuse, I think it's oneof the reasons why I feel living
in another country is soimportant.
When you're living in a countrythat is not the country of your
birth, you are forced to becomemore patient and understanding
with those people around you.
When I lived in Australia, Iwas innately aware of the verbal
(19:49):
abuse, the putting down ofwomen, and it really was painful
and I had to get out of there,partly because nobody understood
what was happening, what theeffect of the words they were
saying had on women, and that,to me, is just heartbreaking.
I often wonder where thatbehavior comes from.
(20:10):
What's the history, what's theinherited suffering of thinking
that it's okay to speak in thatway?
It's definitely the reason whyI feel it's important to live in
another country, if you can.
It opens your eyes and makesyou question how you feel, and
this also teaches us to notquestion things immediately, but
(20:33):
to gain an understanding of thehistory or the cultural reasons
of where such behavior derives.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You make such an important point.
You know, lila's mother alsopunishes her through silences,
right, silence and words arejust as powerful as physical
(21:12):
abuse.
Said to me an anecdote from herstudies, which was that you
know the impact not the initialphysical impact, you know, but
the long-term effects of verbalabuse, including silence, right,
not saying a word is sometimesas powerful as saying it.
Are similar to sort of patientswho have experienced that
physical abuse and that makesperfect sense to me.
So what you're talking about,the way a culture operates with
(21:36):
verbal abuse, that's justexactly just as powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, I love a book that makes me want to do
research Now.
The Magnificent Ruins is set in2015, and it wasn't until 2016
that the Supreme Court of Indiadecided to review the
criminalization of homosexualactivity.
I appreciate how you wove thisinto the story, not in facts and
(22:02):
figures, but through emotionand the torment faced by your
character.
Now, with this in mind, areLGBTQ plus communities now
protected in India, or are theystill ridiculed?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think there's two parts to that question.
The first I would say is itwould be crazy, you know, with
such a large ensemble cast largeensemble cast not to have
someone who was queer in somecapacity.
That you know it's just normalto have, you know, different
kinds of characters, but thecontrast of what that meant in
(22:37):
that particular society inKolkata is very different from
the contrast that it meant forLaila's stepbrother,
half-brother, to be gay, and Iwanted to track that.
You know, things have come along way in India but things are
also the same.
Class is a big factor, right?
(22:58):
If you're wealthy and, let'ssay, living in South Bomb, or
you come from a legacy family inKolkata today, chances are your
parents are a little more opento the idea of your happiness
and your true identity.
I think across the world peoplewould say it really does depend
(23:18):
on the family, but there's beena normalization that I hope has
carried into, you know, certainechelons of Indian society.
The problem is the majority youknow still view it as something
to be ashamed of and that'sjust something that's trickling
down straight from thegovernment right Up until you
(23:41):
give a community free reign.
You give them the right toinherit.
You give them the right tomarry, you give them the right
to have children to be loved,exactly, you're saying aloud
that it is not okay, and so Ithink that feeling is still
pervasive, at least in myopinion.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, you did it beautifully in the book.
You can't help but feel empathyfor this person.
Now, tara, I would love to hearyour publishing story, from the
magnificent ruins finishedmanuscript to getting an agent
and landing a publishing deal.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I listened to a lot of podcasts such as yours, and
what I've understood and learnedis, you know, I think I got a
little lucky along the way.
When I had finished the bookand this was a 600-page version
of it I took it to two agentsthat I admired in the UK.
(24:38):
They loved the book, they goton the phone with me and they
talked about it, but they didn'tagree with some of the choices
I made.
For instance, she sort of endsup romantically at a certain
stage and they wanted her to dosomething different.
And I took that feedback in mystride and then I spent another
(25:00):
six months sort of reviewing itthis is, you know, 2020, I want
to say I'm working from home atmy television job and I'm sort
of thinking about how to taketheir feedback and then I
revised it into the truestversion of the novel.
Lila follows Lila's own path.
Sometimes even I cannot dictatewhat that is and it became a
(25:20):
more compressed, contained sortof rimming with the things that
I wanted it to, kind of novel.
And then I queried aggressivelyI didn't just go to any one
person or go back to them, Iqueried like maybe 30 agents and
within two days one had read it.
And then I was able to sort ofset a fire with the others and I
(25:43):
had multiple agents reading it.
I had almost decided on thatfirst person who had responded
because she was just sopassionate about the book.
She's an excellent agent.
Then this other person, emmaPerry, who is now my agent, and
she just, you know, she got it.
She had worked with writerslike VS Naipaul.
(26:04):
I could tell that she and Iwould have a long career
together and she really investedin me, you know.
And then when it came time tosell the book, you know, when
the initial rejections poured in, she was like don't you even
worry, this is a long game, youknow.
And then when the offers camein, she was, you know, we'd just
been together the whole way.
(26:26):
And then I happened to land aneditor who just felt exactly all
women, you know, even my filmagent is a woman.
And I think the key has beenpeople who truly love the book,
because if that doesn't happenit goes sort of a little awry.
So in that I've been very lucky, because it's not an easy book,
(26:47):
but because of the love ofthese people it's then sort of
fueled it and my editor's beenremarkable.
I credit the book to her, andnow I've got a second book with
her.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Well, congratulations .
Now, when do you find time towrite?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I just did a podcast called Writer's Routine and just
writers talk about.
You know their timelines.
I'm fresh off it, I'm an earlybird.
I'm useless after 7 pm, maybefor socializing here and there.
But you know, I am up at around5, and I find those hours
between 5 and 8, you know, sortof no one's awake.
(27:25):
My fiancé is not awake, myfiance is not awake, my dog's
still sleeping.
There's no one at the door,it's just.
And I live in Silver Lake inLos Angeles.
You can hear the birds and wehave a little backyard.
It's perfect.
My brain is fresh of thepresses, you know I read.
You know Graham Greene's sortof advice via the author Nelsink
(27:48):
If you write 500 words a day,five days a week, or edit five
pages a day for five days a week, it'll get done.
You know it won't be as quickas you know other novelists, but
it will get done.
And so it got done.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And luckily for us, it did.
What are you currently?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
reading.
I am reading my friend NinaSharma's book.
It's so wonderful.
Nina is an Indian woman, afantastic writer, and she
married a Black poet, quincyJones, and it's called the Way
you Make Me Feel and it's thestory of how they met.
It's nonfiction, how they metand eventually married, but what
(28:34):
it really is is an examinationof the model minority as Asians
are frequently positioned andthe problem minority as Black
people have been positioned sounfairly in society and what it
really means internal racismwithin Asian families.
I think my book sort of gets alittle bit in that territory,
(28:58):
but Nina, just you know, shedslight through it, razor sharp
and unflinching, and yet it'sthe sweet, funny portrait of a
marriage and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Oh, that sounds right up my alley.
I have to comment on something.
Whenever I'm looking throughsocial media posts on Instagram,
especially about books andbookcases and everything I feel
a little embarrassed because mybookcases are so untidy On
Instagram.
There are bookcases there thatI just have no idea how they
(29:30):
keep them tidy like that, and soit is with great pleasure that
I look behind you and I see yourbookcase is messy too.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, when my fiancé first met me and he came to my
apartment, he was like so youbasically live in piles of books
and now that we live together,you know there are still these
piles.
There's a pile by the window.
It's beautiful, that is just mydecor, but there are piles
everywhere and he has learned tolove it and live with it.
(30:01):
There's.
Unfortunately, it's not goingdown anytime soon, because my
day job also involves so muchwriting and reading.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And we have that in common.
One of the things that I havefound fascinating and I'm so
grateful for is that, since I'vebeen doing the podcast and the
Lunch with an Author events, Iread in multiple genres fiction
and nonfiction categories.
Read in multiple genres,fiction and nonfiction
categories.
It's made me a better thinker.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I imagine what you do with the podcast, you know,
sort of read eclectic and notnecessarily always to your taste
is what's happened for me in TV.
I don't just read literaryfiction or any particular genre
and it really does open up yourworldview.
It's like living in differentplaces, right, so I'm grateful
for that.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Tara, it has been a pleasure getting to know you and
you've written a wonderful bookwith the Magnificent Ruins and
I look forward to reading yournext book.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's been wonderful, Mandy.
I'm so filled with admirationfor you.
I can't wait to tell you moreabout how things develop.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
This was such a pleasure You've been listening
to my conversation withNayantara Roy about her book the
Magnificent Ruins.
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with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
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To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
(31:30):
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You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
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(31:53):
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The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
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executive assistant to Mandy,adrian Otterhan, and graphic
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Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
bibliophile.
Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
bookshop owners and booksellersfrom around the globe and
publishing professionals.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
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(00:33):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
You're listening to episode 284.
And 84.
Before I get started with theinterview today, I wanted to
(00:53):
share a couple of events I havecoming up.
The first is next Sunday, march9th, between 2 and 4 pm, I will
be in conversation withacclaimed author, poet and
president emerita of PennInternational, jennifer Clement.
This event is at Ojai RootsFarm Shop, 315 North Montgomery
Street in Ojai, california, andyou can sign up for this event
(01:15):
on my website, which iswwwmandijacksonbeverlycom.
Forward slash events.
The other event is the Lunchwith an Author literary series
in Santa Barbara and it will beheld at the Santa Barbara Club
on Thursday April 10th from12.30 to 3pm, and this is with
(01:35):
Edward Humes, the Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist and Penn
Award winning author.
Ed and I will be inconversation speaking about
journalism and his latest bookTotal Garbage how we Can Fix Our
Waste and Heal Our World.
Brilliant book Tickets includea three-course luncheon, coffee
and tea and a copy of TotalGarbage, so I hope to see you
(01:58):
there.
All of these events requirereservation and prepayment and,
once again, you can go to mywebsite at
wwwmandijacksonbeverlycomforward slash events and you can
get your tickets there.
I hope to see you.
We have fabulous authorsscheduled for this series in
2025.
(02:19):
And I hope to see you at theSan Diego Writers Festival on
Saturday, april 5th.
I will be moderating a panelwith Bethann Patrick, megan
Beattie and author Dawn Tripp.
Okay, and here's this week'sinterview.
Nayantara Roy is the author ofthe Magnificent Ruins, which was
(02:40):
a New York Times Editor'sChoice Novel of 2024, an LA
Times Editor's Pick, aWashington Post Best Book, a
People Magazine Best Book, anApple Best Debut, a Hatchet Book
Club Pick, a Lily's LibraryPick and a Gold House Book Club
Pick, amongst others.
Her second novel, sisters ofthe Halved Heart, is forthcoming
(03:01):
from Algonquin Little Brown inthe summer of 2026.
In 2018, roy won the RickDeMarine's Award for her short
story 8C.
Her plays have been performedinternationally in the UK and
India.
She is also the Senior VicePresident of Television at
Sandbox Entertainment, where sheacquires and develops original
(03:21):
scripted series.
Roy lives in Silver Lake, losAngeles.
Hi, tara, and welcome to theshow.
It's lovely to have you hereand congratulations on the
success of the Magnificent Ruinswhich I thoroughly enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Thank you, I mean that means so much.
It's been so wonderful to hearhow people feel about it.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yes, that part of writing can be both
nerve-wracking and heartwarming.
Well, let's begin by learningabout your early life in India,
relocating to Los Angeles, andwhat led you to become a
television executive.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I was born in Kolkata , much like Laila, my
protagonist and you know, reallywas born to a family of readers
.
Half my family are finance brosand the other half are
novelists.
My granddad is a novelist, mycousin is a novelist, and when I
sort of finished high school, Iwas curious about what I wanted
(04:15):
to do next.
I didn't want to immediatelythink about it.
My father was very nomadic.
He traveled a lot for work andwe ended up living in places
like South Africa and the UK andI had had a lot of exposure
globally family all over theworld as well and so it was a
natural decision to want tostudy abroad and I did.
(04:36):
I went to school in the US andwhat ended up happening is that
right after I did a bit of workin publishing and it was an
interesting period forpublishing where you were really
seeing the movie studios comein and acquire IP in a way that
they hadn't before.
(04:57):
They were buying books to makeinto TV shows and so on, and all
along I was like maybe I wantto write that novel someday and
my dad was like, yes, on theside, keep going on your career,
my wonderful Asian dad who isactually my person and what
ended up happening is thatworking in that publishing
(05:18):
business sort of made me realizethat what I really wanted to do
was what the televisionexecutives were trying to do.
What I really wanted to do waswhat the television executives
were trying to do, and, like agood Asian child, I once again
went to school to learn how todo that.
I went to graduate school atColumbia and while I was there I
also took a fiction classcalled Other People's Secrets.
(05:38):
It was just an extraordinaryclass and I wrote an essay at
the end of it that semester.
That ended up being the genesisof my book.
But I also moved from New Yorkto LA and got myself a career in
TV.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Do you enjoy your work in television and what do
you gain from it?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I'm so grateful to it .
It has, you know, sort ofprovided me with such stability.
I say that now, but it's areally tumultuous industry and
it's really taught me tounderstand story from a
different perspective, right, ifyou think about it, books and
chapters are very sort of akinto episodic television and I
(06:23):
think when it's good, that canbe an extraordinary experience.
Watching a season of somethingI've also had the pleasure of,
you know sort of seeing thatprocess end, to end myself
taking a book and then workingwith a screenwriter to develop
it into a season of scripts andthen giving notes when it comes
back to me fully in cuts, that,I think, is an extraordinary
(06:47):
experience to have for any sortof creator.
So I'm very grateful to thebusiness for having given me
that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think being on a set or part of a crew
in film or TV and also theater,is a wonderful stepping stone
to becoming a writer, becauseyou learn about dialogue.
You also learn about action andyou learn about that beautiful
pause, that moment of reflection, for either the reader or the
(07:17):
viewer.
So, yeah, I think that it'sjust such a wonderful
introduction to becoming awriter.
Sounds like you've been on aset.
Yes, I have.
I was a costume designer andstylist for many years.
I worked with photographers infashion, in beauty and a lot of
music videos and live concerts,and my husband was a key grip.
(07:39):
He's now retired.
So, yes, I have been on manysets and sometimes the chaos is
what kind of gives you thatadrenaline to make sure
everything comes together.
It's such a wonderful learningtool and it's not until you've
been on a set that you actuallyunderstand what goes in to the
making of a film or a video or acommercial.
(08:01):
It's insane.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Exactly, and it's so humbling because you know up
until the agent reads it or yourreaders read a first draft.
Writing a novel is a prettyisolating experience.
It's you and your laptop and ina way it's also much more
focused, much more.
There's much more room forthought and reflection.
(08:25):
For television it takes avillage and I would argue that
you know it takes a village tosee a novel through to
publication and my editor reallyhelped shape this novel into
what it is.
But it does take a village intelevision in a way that you
don't see.
I don't know if most peoplethey probably don't realize that
one season of television costsbetween 60 and 80 million
(08:48):
dollars on a streaming serviceto make and that's an
extraordinary amount of moneyand responsibility in people's
time.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yes, it sure is, Tara .
Can you remember when writingentered your life, because
you're not only a writer ofnovels, but you've also written
for theater life.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Because you're not only a writer of novels but
you've also written for theatre.
Yeah, and in high school I waskind of known as the writer.
I won writing contests.
I was editor of my schoolmagazine.
It was always assumed that Iwould be a writer of some sort.
But where I come from, it isn'treally a career to pursue right
away.
It's not like here where Iimagine you could just major in
(09:29):
writing and then go to schoolslike Iowa or Columbia for
writing for graduate school.
It's not quite like that inIndia and it certainly wasn't in
the 80s and 90s.
There are magnificent novelistscoming out of India every day,
but I'm sure they would attestto the fact that it is a path
not often trodden.
I think writing was always inthe water for me.
(09:51):
I can't think of a single pointin my life where I wasn't
writing something.
I wrote a short story beforegraduate school that won a prize
.
It sort of drifted in and outof my life, won a prize.
It sort of drifted in and outof my life.
I took that class at Columbiaand it became what would
(10:11):
eventually be my first novel.
But all through that I waswriting right out of school.
I was writing in plays inBombay that were eventually
produced and performed, and so Ithink I've always had this dual
identity.
Once I entered my televisioncareer in earnest I started sort
of feeling a little moreimposter syndrome, you know
(10:32):
around writing I was like, well,hi, I'm Tara, I'm a television
executive.
It's much harder.
And my friend Rachel the otherday at her party was like this
is my friend Tara, she's anovelist.
And I was like, oh, is myfriend Tara, she's a novelist.
And I was like, oh, I guess Iam.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Oh, I think that's a wonderful thing about life.
We are constantly changing,discovering different things in
our life and becoming the personwe end up being.
I think that's exciting For ourlisteners.
I'd love it if you could sharethe synopsis of your novel the
Magnificent Ruins.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
In the Magnificent Ruins you meet Lila, who is a
millennial.
She's 29 when we first meet herand she lives in Brooklyn.
She's Indian American, she'ssuccessful, she's a books editor
at a major publishing housewhich has just been acquired by
a bigger company, and she's amillennial in every way.
(11:29):
She makes complex choices abouther career, her lovers, her
family, and she sort of alsolets life happen to her.
Lila doesn't proactively go andget life.
You know that.
You get the sense that she'scoasting along and then one
morning Lila wakes up andrealizes that her grandfather is
dead her maternal grandfatherall the way in Kolkata in India,
(11:53):
and then she finds out he'salso left the family mansion to
her, this decaying, crumblingproperty that the entire family
still lives in her extendedfamily, her mother and her
grandmother and she's seen noneof them in a long time.
So Laila must make her way backto India, and when she does
(12:13):
that she has to deal with a lotmore than paperwork.
There's a lot of secrets andinheritances that aren't just
tangible, that aren't just ahouse.
The story, ultimately, is astory of what we inherit, that
runs in our veins.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Something that captivated me in the story is
the fact that the house becomesa character.
As you said, the walls aresteeped with stories and secrets
.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And it's been a real revelation to me to see how
people respond to the house.
You know the cover designerimmediately wanted to put it
right on the jacket.
You know my editor sort ofcalled it like you did just now,
intuitively its own character,I think, when a generation, when
(13:01):
generations of family own ahistoric property and those
houses in Kolkata, the Zamindarhouses, come with a lot of
dubious post-colonial legacy butthey're a semblance of what
they used to be, but they arestill so breathtaking.
It's inevitable whengenerations pass through homes
(13:22):
like that that there are storiesthat only can be told within
the walls of those houses.
So I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, that was one of the pieces that I really loved
about the story.
Are there parts of the storyand locations and the characters
that are based on real life,your family or friends.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I was born in Kolkata and Laila was born in Kolkata
and while Laila is younger, morereckless, and she sort of took
me by surprise when I waswriting her, you know there are
moments in the novel where I wasjust like, don't do that.
But it was inevitably that shewould go there.
She would do that.
She and I have both lived inBrooklyn, places that we
(14:07):
understand deeply for its milieu, and the idea of being an
insider and an outsider at once,just given how many places I've
lived in, is very real to me.
I wanted to write the bookbecause I wanted to write about
cultures of silence, legacyfamilies, specifically in
(14:29):
Kolkata, that have cultures ofsilence shrouding them, where
one is expected to keep up witha certain facade for the rest of
the world, and you could saymost families do that.
But these families do it insuch a way because there's so
much at stake.
You know, sort of, if you thinkabout the amplified version of
that, it's the royal family,right.
(14:51):
What goes on within privatewalls is never quite told and I
think the darker territory ofthe book sort of wants to, like
Lila, confront that and dealwith that and understand what
parts of her history have shapedher and that continue to shape
(15:14):
her mom, her grandmother and her.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And within the story is an undercurrent of abuse
between a man and a woman livingin the family compound.
Was this facet of unspokenviolence in the initial concept
or did it grow as you wrote thecharacters?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That is an excellent question.
No, the initial sort of idea inmy head, you know, when I was
starting to put the assemblanceof a novel together, was I knew
there would be the house.
In India, these families aremade up of sometimes even 40, 50
(15:50):
people at the same time, and Iknew that people would have to
become composites of each otherand become contained characters.
And at its core I wanted totell the story of three
generations of violence, of howthese women had been impacted
right, and I wanted to tell astory that would also be
(16:10):
enjoyable for people to read.
What then happened over?
It took me seven years to writethe book.
What then happened was that Igave it structure.
I talked to fellow authors,specifically a friend that I was
working with, and I did anoutline, and in that outline it
just seemed necessary to infusenot just the man and the woman
(16:34):
but also the city.
There's an undercurrent ofdanger that sort of wraps itself
around the fate of the city aswell, around the fate of the
house, the couple that are sortof confronting the issue of
violence, and then the threewomen, and it makes it sound
like a really dark book.
But I would say, you knowthere's darkness and light,
(16:56):
which is to me anyone's home.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And you definitely have to have that tension
between characters when you'rewriting an epic family story.
Now can you expand on the ideaof family discipline, respect
and what is spoken of and keptsecret in Indian culture and
expand a little on what youmentioned earlier, the cultures
of silence?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Absolutely.
What was so intriguing to mewhen I was I want to say 25, 26,
and first started thinkingabout it, was that what is
considered discipline in oneculture perfectly normal was
something you could get called.
(17:37):
You know, social security wouldbe at your social services,
would be at your doorstep for itin another country, and the
approach to what is consideredabuse versus love, and there's
this thin line, sort oftrembling, in between those two
things.
That's all coming from a placeof I deeply want my child to
(18:00):
succeed and do well.
I definitely think that theculture in India is not that
different.
When I started talking about it.
You know what happens to Lailahad happened to my
African-American friends, myChinese-American friends.
As it turns out, the way wediscipline children when we are
(18:22):
immigrants, when we arecommunities that really, really
want our kids to succeed,travels across cultures, when
it's not quite understood thatthis in fact could be a legacy
of violence you're passing on.
One of my friends, the authorSunil Yap, has said that the
novelist chewed easy villains.
(18:44):
You know it was reallyimportant for me to track the
ways in which violence hadplayed out over generations, the
ways in which it had beennormalized and shed some light
around the inherited patterns ofthinking versus that's bad,
this is good.
Look how America, you know,sort of says no violence, even
(19:06):
you know, for the most part it'ssort of like this is not great
and that culture does this andit is great.
I just wanted to sort of trackthose patterns and see where
they came from and verbal abuse.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Having been one that has suffered from the effects of
verbal abuse, I think it's oneof the reasons why I feel living
in another country is soimportant.
When you're living in a countrythat is not the country of your
birth, you are forced to becomemore patient and understanding
with those people around you.
When I lived in Australia, Iwas innately aware of the verbal
(19:49):
abuse, the putting down ofwomen, and it really was painful
and I had to get out of there,partly because nobody understood
what was happening, what theeffect of the words they were
saying had on women, and that,to me, is just heartbreaking.
I often wonder where thatbehavior comes from.
(20:10):
What's the history, what's theinherited suffering of thinking
that it's okay to speak in thatway?
It's definitely the reason whyI feel it's important to live in
another country, if you can.
It opens your eyes and makesyou question how you feel, and
this also teaches us to notquestion things immediately, but
(20:33):
to gain an understanding of thehistory or the cultural reasons
of where such behavior derives.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You make such an important point.
You know, lila's mother alsopunishes her through silences,
right, silence and words arejust as powerful as physical
(21:12):
abuse.
Said to me an anecdote from herstudies, which was that you
know the impact not the initialphysical impact, you know, but
the long-term effects of verbalabuse, including silence, right,
not saying a word is sometimesas powerful as saying it.
Are similar to sort of patientswho have experienced that
physical abuse and that makesperfect sense to me.
So what you're talking about,the way a culture operates with
(21:36):
verbal abuse, that's justexactly just as powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, I love a book that makes me want to do
research Now.
The Magnificent Ruins is set in2015, and it wasn't until 2016
that the Supreme Court of Indiadecided to review the
criminalization of homosexualactivity.
I appreciate how you wove thisinto the story, not in facts and
(22:02):
figures, but through emotionand the torment faced by your
character.
Now, with this in mind, areLGBTQ plus communities now
protected in India, or are theystill ridiculed?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think there's two parts to that question.
The first I would say is itwould be crazy, you know, with
such a large ensemble cast largeensemble cast not to have
someone who was queer in somecapacity.
That you know it's just normalto have, you know, different
kinds of characters, but thecontrast of what that meant in
(22:37):
that particular society inKolkata is very different from
the contrast that it meant forLaila's stepbrother,
half-brother, to be gay, and Iwanted to track that.
You know, things have come along way in India but things are
also the same.
Class is a big factor, right?
(22:58):
If you're wealthy and, let'ssay, living in South Bomb, or
you come from a legacy family inKolkata today, chances are your
parents are a little more opento the idea of your happiness
and your true identity.
I think across the world peoplewould say it really does depend
(23:18):
on the family, but there's beena normalization that I hope has
carried into, you know, certainechelons of Indian society.
The problem is the majority youknow still view it as something
to be ashamed of and that'sjust something that's trickling
down straight from thegovernment right Up until you
(23:41):
give a community free reign.
You give them the right toinherit.
You give them the right tomarry, you give them the right
to have children to be loved,exactly, you're saying aloud
that it is not okay, and so Ithink that feeling is still
pervasive, at least in myopinion.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, you did it beautifully in the book.
You can't help but feel empathyfor this person.
Now, tara, I would love to hearyour publishing story, from the
magnificent ruins finishedmanuscript to getting an agent
and landing a publishing deal.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I listened to a lot of podcasts such as yours, and
what I've understood and learnedis, you know, I think I got a
little lucky along the way.
When I had finished the bookand this was a 600-page version
of it I took it to two agentsthat I admired in the UK.
(24:38):
They loved the book, they goton the phone with me and they
talked about it, but they didn'tagree with some of the choices
I made.
For instance, she sort of endsup romantically at a certain
stage and they wanted her to dosomething different.
And I took that feedback in mystride and then I spent another
(25:00):
six months sort of reviewing itthis is, you know, 2020, I want
to say I'm working from home atmy television job and I'm sort
of thinking about how to taketheir feedback and then I
revised it into the truestversion of the novel.
Lila follows Lila's own path.
Sometimes even I cannot dictatewhat that is and it became a
(25:20):
more compressed, contained sortof rimming with the things that
I wanted it to, kind of novel.
And then I queried aggressivelyI didn't just go to any one
person or go back to them, Iqueried like maybe 30 agents and
within two days one had read it.
And then I was able to sort ofset a fire with the others and I
(25:43):
had multiple agents reading it.
I had almost decided on thatfirst person who had responded
because she was just sopassionate about the book.
She's an excellent agent.
Then this other person, emmaPerry, who is now my agent, and
she just, you know, she got it.
She had worked with writerslike VS Naipaul.
(26:04):
I could tell that she and Iwould have a long career
together and she really investedin me, you know.
And then when it came time tosell the book, you know, when
the initial rejections poured in, she was like don't you even
worry, this is a long game, youknow.
And then when the offers camein, she was, you know, we'd just
been together the whole way.
(26:26):
And then I happened to land aneditor who just felt exactly all
women, you know, even my filmagent is a woman.
And I think the key has beenpeople who truly love the book,
because if that doesn't happenit goes sort of a little awry.
So in that I've been very lucky, because it's not an easy book,
(26:47):
but because of the love ofthese people it's then sort of
fueled it and my editor's beenremarkable.
I credit the book to her, andnow I've got a second book with
her.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Well, congratulations .
Now, when do you find time towrite?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I just did a podcast called Writer's Routine and just
writers talk about.
You know their timelines.
I'm fresh off it, I'm an earlybird.
I'm useless after 7 pm, maybefor socializing here and there.
But you know, I am up at around5, and I find those hours
between 5 and 8, you know, sortof no one's awake.
(27:25):
My fiancé is not awake, myfiance is not awake, my dog's
still sleeping.
There's no one at the door,it's just.
And I live in Silver Lake inLos Angeles.
You can hear the birds and wehave a little backyard.
It's perfect.
My brain is fresh of thepresses, you know I read.
You know Graham Greene's sortof advice via the author Nelsink
(27:48):
If you write 500 words a day,five days a week, or edit five
pages a day for five days a week, it'll get done.
You know it won't be as quickas you know other novelists, but
it will get done.
And so it got done.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
And luckily for us, it did.
What are you currently?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
reading.
I am reading my friend NinaSharma's book.
It's so wonderful.
Nina is an Indian woman, afantastic writer, and she
married a Black poet, quincyJones, and it's called the Way
you Make Me Feel and it's thestory of how they met.
It's nonfiction, how they metand eventually married, but what
(28:34):
it really is is an examinationof the model minority as Asians
are frequently positioned andthe problem minority as Black
people have been positioned sounfairly in society and what it
really means internal racismwithin Asian families.
I think my book sort of gets alittle bit in that territory,
(28:58):
but Nina, just you know, shedslight through it, razor sharp
and unflinching, and yet it'sthe sweet, funny portrait of a
marriage and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Oh, that sounds right up my alley.
I have to comment on something.
Whenever I'm looking throughsocial media posts on Instagram,
especially about books andbookcases and everything I feel
a little embarrassed because mybookcases are so untidy On
Instagram.
There are bookcases there thatI just have no idea how they
(29:30):
keep them tidy like that, and soit is with great pleasure that
I look behind you and I see yourbookcase is messy too.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, when my fiancé first met me and he came to my
apartment, he was like so youbasically live in piles of books
and now that we live together,you know there are still these
piles.
There's a pile by the window.
It's beautiful, that is just mydecor, but there are piles
everywhere and he has learned tolove it and live with it.
(30:01):
There's.
Unfortunately, it's not goingdown anytime soon, because my
day job also involves so muchwriting and reading.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And we have that in common.
One of the things that I havefound fascinating and I'm so
grateful for is that, since I'vebeen doing the podcast and the
Lunch with an Author events, Iread in multiple genres fiction
and nonfiction categories.
Read in multiple genres,fiction and nonfiction
categories.
It's made me a better thinker.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I imagine what you do with the podcast, you know,
sort of read eclectic and notnecessarily always to your taste
is what's happened for me in TV.
I don't just read literaryfiction or any particular genre
and it really does open up yourworldview.
It's like living in differentplaces, right, so I'm grateful
for that.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Tara, it has been a pleasure getting to know you and
you've written a wonderful bookwith the Magnificent Ruins and
I look forward to reading yournext book.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
It's been wonderful, Mandy.
I'm so filled with admirationfor you.
I can't wait to tell you moreabout how things develop.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
This was such a pleasure You've been listening
to my conversation withNayantara Roy about her book the
Magnificent Ruins.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
(31:30):
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on X, Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
(31:53):
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly,
executive assistant to Mandy,adrian Otterhan, and graphic
design by Francis Farala.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
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