July 14, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode, I chat with Chryss Yost, the co-editor of Gunpowder Press and a Santa Barbara Poet Laureate, and Diana Raab, MFA, PhD, memoirist, poet, workshop leader, and award-winning author of 14 books and editor of three anthologies.
Chryss and Diana are coeditors of Women In A Golden State, a collection featuring poems and micro-essays by 175 California women writers over 60. The collection examines the mythology and reality of being a woman of a certain age, especially in youth-obsessed California.
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This episode is sponsored by Saturn Press: www.saturnpress.us
The Bookshop Podcast was recently voted #9 of the Best 100 Bibliophile Podcasts on Million Podcast!
Women In A Golden State, Coedited by Chryss Yost and Diana Raab
The Moon Shall Not Give Her Light, David Starkey
Reading Like a Writer, Francine Prose
The Book of Delights, Ross Gay
The Book of Alchemy, Suleika Jaouad
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
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Diana Rabb, mfa, phd, is amemoirist, poet, workshop leader
, thought leader andaward-winning author of 14 books
and editor of three anthologies.
Her work has been widelypublished and anthologized.
Her poems have been nominatedfor the Pushcart Prize and the
(02:00):
Best of the Net.
She frequently speaks andwrites on writing for healing
and transformation.
Rapp writes for PsychologyToday, the Good Men Project 60
and Me Medium and is a guestwriter for many others.
Her newest memoir isHummingbird Messages from my
Ancestors.
Chris Yost is a poet, designerand educator based in Santa
(02:24):
Barbara, california.
She is the co-editor ofGunpowder Press and a Santa
Barbara Poet Laureate.
Hi, diana and Chris, it's greatto have you both here, thank
you.
Thank you for the invitation.
A little later we'll bechatting about the poetry book
you both co-edited, women in aGolden State, published by
Gunpowder Press.
But before then, I'd like toknow a little bit about you both
(02:46):
, chris.
Let's start with you.
You are a designer, a poet andan educator, and you served as
Santa Barbara's Poet Laureatefrom 2013 to 2015.
Was there a defining moment inyour youth when poetry first
revealed its beauty and power toyou?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, for me it started really young.
When I was in about fourth grade, I just had a wonderful teacher
who would let me work out allmy angst and desire to avoid
recess by staying in theclassroom and writing poems, and
this generous, amazing womanwould give me feedback on almost
(03:24):
every one of these little fiveand a half page things that I
would do and it instilled in mea sense of being listened to, a
sense of being heard that Ireally valued.
And then, of course, lifehappened and I got very busy and
I was always a reader and lovedreading.
But it wasn't until I was atUCSB and in a class with John
(03:46):
Ridland, a Santa Barbara poet,that I really rediscovered my
love for poetry.
And his angle was always veryformal and looking at the
construction of poetry and theway that words worked, and
looking at almost as a puzzle,as a game of how do you get
(04:07):
these emotions to fit togetherin these forms.
And I just loved that, not justas something to read and feel,
but as something to craft.
I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
It sounds like you've always enjoyed reading poetry.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yes, when I was very young we had books around the
house.
I was very lucky that mygrandmother was a great reader
and had tons of books.
So from the children's book,the golden children's book that
a lot of people had, and all theway up through it was great.
And when I was a mom and verybusy when I was younger, poetry
(04:43):
was something you could stillread.
When you didn't maybe have timeto read a novel, you could
still manage to read a poem ortwo.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
That's a poem or a short story, they're always good
to have handy.
What drew you to becomeco-editor at Gunpowder Press, an
independent poetry publisherand literary 501c3?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, I was writing a lot of poems, had a manuscript
together and was finding it verydifficult to get published.
I had a publisher that wasinterested but they were like,
yeah, it'll be a few years untilit appears.
Meanwhile, my good friend,david Starkey, had a book that
he was trying to get published,written by David Case, who had
(05:24):
passed away, and he had beenleft as David Case's literary
executor and nobody wanted topublish a book by a poet that
wasn't going to be able to dothe circuit and sell their own
work.
So David came to me and he said, hey, I know you've got a book
you're trying to get published.
I've got this book by DavidCase that I'm trying to get
published.
What if we make that the firsttwo books that start this new
(05:47):
press?
And I said, absolutely, thatsounds fantastic.
And we came up with the nameGunpowder Press, which honors St
Barbara, who's the patron saintof gunpowder, among other
things.
And then it just took off fromthere.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
We published that in 2014, published our first two
books and we're going strong,and did you ever feel that there
was a particular gap in thepoetry landscape that you felt
called to fill?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Definitely Just in the time of gunpowder press's
existence.
You're seeing a lot morepresses all over the country,
but at the time when we werestarting it was really still New
York, heavily New York.
There was maybe one or twoplaces in California, but you
didn't have places in theMidwest.
(06:33):
A lot of this is new,relatively new.
The poetry presses that havethe biggest impact I mean even
Milkweed, tupelo are relativelyyoung presses and so just with
an opportunity to do somethingbased in California and it's
been fantastic, even though wedo publish poets from across the
(06:53):
country we're not onlyCalifornia.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, I have a real soft spot for small and medium
presses.
I admire the courage of thepublishers.
They're prepared to take onsomething that's most likely not
going to make millions, butthey take a chance on something
that is maybe new and different.
I have a real soft spot forsmall and medium presses Looking
at prizes, like the Booker, theauthors from small and medium
(07:17):
presses are doing extremely well.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Diana, you were on the show last year and we spoke
about your beautiful memoirHummingbird and I swear every
time I see a hummingbird whichis quite often in Southern
California I think of yourgorgeous book.
Now you are also the author offive poetry collections,
multiple books of nonfiction anda gifted writing teacher.
I say this because I have manyfriends who have done your
(07:43):
classes.
Now, for readers who feelunsure about poetry, what advice
would you offer to help thembegin exploring the medium?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, first of all, thank you for having me and us
on the show again.
I love your shows very much andyour events.
Well, I would say, like I tellmy students, if you want to be a
writer or a poet, you need toread a lot of poetry or whatever
you want to write, because youknow emulation is the biggest
form of flattery and reading forenjoyment it's also.
(08:15):
It's also a way to learntechnique.
So you have to get curiousabout all different types of
poetry and sometimes I suggestreading anthologies, because you
have a collection of differentpoets.
Find the ones that resonatewith you and then read all the
poems from that person.
That's what I often suggest.
You also want to try to make anote of what the poet's trying
(08:36):
to accomplish and how it's beingdone.
Francine Pose wrote a book yearsago it's called Reading Like a
Writer writer, which is reallygood.
It kind of gives some reallygood tips on that.
Unfortunately, my generation umdidn't really get inspired in
the early years of school forpoetry because it was not taught
in a very inspiring way, and so, luckily, over the years I've
(09:01):
started reading morecontemporary poets and it's more
resonates with me more.
Another thing that I wouldsuggest is taking poetry
workshops, either at writersconferences or virtually
whatever works in your schedule.
Poets are also very keenobservers.
I always suggest carrying ajournal, because you just never
know.
You know when the thought orthe image or the energy of
(09:24):
something that you want tocreate into a poem comes to you
it's very early at your desk forme anyway as soon as you want
them out and about.
And another thing is maybe geta collection of writing prompts
if you're having troublecreating your own poems.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Diana, I know you are busy teaching your memoir class
, especially in Santa Barbara,but do you have an online
platform for poets to gather andshare their work?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Actually I do not.
People have asked me to.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, it's all about time, right?
It's so difficult to find thetime to do all these creative
things that we want to do yeahit's true.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's true, I'm giving a workshop coming up at
Godmothers in Summerlin, turningpersonal experiences into
poetry.
So I try to give like littleworkshops here and there, but
I've not really done a lotonline.
But I'll look into it, thankyou for that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
One of the things I love about social media is that
it has allowed creatives whomaybe are a bit shy to put
themselves out there as far as apublisher or a gallery owner,
but they will put themselves onsocial media and I've seen a lot
of poets do this young poetsand every now and again I'll go
back to see what they're doingand check their work and what I
(10:40):
found is that their art isgrowing, it's taking shape.
They're not all going to bebrilliant poets, but they're all
finding their distinctivevoices.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, a lot of poets have become very famous, haven't
they on Instagram?
Also, agents and publishersfind them on Instagram.
So you're right, it's a verygood venue, Chris.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
what are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I was just going to say.
I think in some ways poetry,more than any other form of
writing, is very similar tomusic.
I mean, it's got that lyricalquality.
You know, you can just listento a song.
You don't have to like thewhole album by the band, you can
just listen to one song andfind it wonderful, which is why
we have these little K-telcollections that we call
anthologies.
(11:21):
So, like you said, you don'tlike all of it that you see on
Instagram, maybe, but that'sokay and you can just get
exposed to it.
And there's a whole lot ofpoetry that I do not like.
There's a lot of it that justdoesn't click for me in the same
way, and that's okay.
So when people say, do you likepoetry or not like poetry, it's
(11:44):
kind of a strange questionsometimes, because you'll meet
people who say I don't likepoetry.
It just makes me feel likeDiana was mentioning that they
just haven't been exposed to itin the right way, that somebody
made them try to memorizesomething, or it was a forced
assignment and it wasn't theright poem for them at the right
time.
But there's so much poetry outthere, how can you say you just
(12:07):
don't like it?
It's strange.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, I completely agree.
And also, any art form issubjective to the reader or the
viewer, right?
Yeah, something that I'mfinding more and more on social
media and in gallery exhibitionsis the mixing of visual arts
and poetry, or just words ontheir own, and I love this kind
(12:29):
of art.
It's like a collage ofcreativity.
Have either of you played withthis medium?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, I actually gave a journaling class when I was
living in Florida poetry and Itaught it with a visual artist
and it was so much fun becausepeople love that.
But I've not seen that manybooks in that way.
Some of the younger writers, Ithink are doing that Right,
chris.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, there's a lot of them, and the visual arts and
literary arts, I think,continue to influence each other
.
Our cover was done by a SantaBarbara artist, mary Huebner,
and these are dyads that areinspired by myths, you know,
like literary myths, that shemade into collage and then made
their way onto our book, whichis a collage of poems, collage
(13:16):
and then made their way onto ourbook, which is a collage of
poems, so they do all weavetogether.
Linda Saccoccio is a local poetwho's a painter and is doing a
book that's going to be comingout later this year.
That does, you know, poems andpaintings side by side, and
we've done quite a few acrosticcollections at Gunpowder Press,
where we invite poets to go tothe Santa Barbara Museum of Art
(13:38):
or to Lotusland and to writepoems in response to works of
art.
We don't usually print themside by side because of the
copyright issues and colorprinting issues.
It becomes much more expensiveto produce the book, but it is a
great source of inspiration forpoets constantly.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, I agree.
And, Diana, it's a little bit,like you said, you never know
when inspiration is going to hit, so you have to carry that
little book in your purse aroundwith you.
Now, diana, you are no strangerto anthologies.
So what inspired you to co-editWomen in a Golden State with
Chris, and how did the ideaevolve from its initial spark
into a fully realized collection?
(14:16):
I'd love to hear how this ideablossomed.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Well, you never know what inspiration hits.
But yes, that's true.
And so this is my thirdanthology and I was dealing with
some health issues.
Last year I did do a lot ofwriting as a poem here and there
, and so Chris and I had dinnerand we were just talking about
all kinds of things and Imentioned that I'm just kind of
in a lull.
I really don't know what mynext project is going to be in,
(14:41):
which is kind of unlike me.
I've always been working on oneor two books at a time, and so
she's a fantastic brainstormer.
If anyone needs a brainstormer,just call her.
And so.
But I didn't know that reallyuntil we had this dinner, even
though I've known her for a longtime.
Actually, no, I did.
We did brainstorm some years agoover another glass of wine, and
(15:05):
so she kind of sat there.
I said, yeah, I just don't knowwhat my next project is.
And she just sat there and Ican feel her brain moving.
She said, uh, what about ananthology?
And I went, oh, been there,done that.
You know, it's kind of likehoarding all these kindergarten
students into a room and to dotheir work and their bios and
(15:27):
and all that.
I'm like I really don't want todo that, and so we continued
our conversation.
I went home and I thought, hmm,maybe that is a good idea, maybe
that is my next stage it's not,like you know, full on writing,
but it's something thatinterests me and what would the
subject be?
And then I thought about I hadjust turned 70.
And I thought aging was on mymind.
(15:48):
So I thought something aboutaging.
And then I thought back mymother's 94.
And you know, she's not, she'skind of aging gracefully, I
suppose in a nursing home.
But I thought back to a collegeessay that I wrote many, many,
many years ago about aginggracefully, and I thought, well,
I guess this has been on mymind for quite some time, let me
(16:10):
, let me investigate that.
So I emailed Chris and she'slike, hold on a minute, don't do
anything with that.
And she went to speak to Davidand I guess she said well, we
might be interested in that ideaof an anthology on aging,
related to aging.
So that's how it started Over aglass of wine, glass of wine.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, chris, do you have anything to add?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Chris, do you have anything to add?
Across the globe, as thisamazing mythical creatures of
what is a California girl andrealizing that that song was
getting to be a certain age andall the women that could relate
to that song were getting to bea certain age, it really created
an opportunity of what does itmean to age in California, which
(17:14):
is a state or a culture thattends to be focused on youth,
and that there's so much wisdomand so much care and brilliance
and creativity in thedemographic of older California
women that is not necessarilyrepresented in culture, in the
(17:35):
highly available culture.
So bringing that into a bookseemed like a really good
opportunity to shine a light onthese varied experiences and
these are experiences, positive,negative, people that have
lived in California from birth,people that have moved here a
year ago.
You know there's a lot of rangein the voices and the way they
(17:58):
are interacting with that tropeof the California girl and it's
exciting.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, I find this really interesting.
In a recent conversation forthe show with Belfast author
Lucy Caldwell, she reflected onhow the idea of being an Irish
author has changed over time andthat made me wonder well, what
does it mean to be a Californianpoet or author in 2025?
(18:24):
And how has that identityevolved over the last century
and where do we see it going?
And that segues beautifullyinto my next question how did
you both decide what made a poetCalifornian?
In other words, was it how longthey'd lived here, for were
they born here?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
uh, well, you know, being a poet in California can
mean different things dependingon what perspective you're
thinking of.
Uh, it could be someone thatwrites about landscapes, but it
can also be about poets that areinspired by being in California
.
You know, california is a meccaof creativity.
I live in the Santa Barbaraarea and we have a lot of
(19:04):
creatives here, and it's areally great way to become
inspired.
You know our landscapes.
We've got varied landscapesmountains, desert, ocean and so
the whole idea of Californiadreaming is real.
And you know, california hasbeen long associated with
innovation and poets.
You know, in Silicon Valley, etcetera, and so also being in
(19:27):
California, you know we'restanding on the shoulders of
some giant poets like Ginsburgand Robinson, jeffers and Juan
Philip Herrera and many, manyothers, and so I think being a
poet in California in 2025 isreally about, I would say,
navigating the landscape whilebeing enriched with the
technological tools that we have, which sometimes are a blessing
(19:49):
, sometimes are a curse.
It's also about the collectiveconsciousness.
I think we're becoming more ofa collective consciousness about
spreading the word about poetry.
People are less intimidated bypoetry and sharing their
feelings through poetry, whichis an emotional genre, sharing
their feelings aboutcontemporary issues through the
(20:11):
art of poetry, and I see thishappening more and more, unless
there's much less of anintimidation Poetry you were
asking, like how it's going tochange in the future.
I just think that people areless intimidated.
You know it's on social media alittle bit more.
The poems are poems that areaccessible and they resonate
with people.
I think things are gettingbetter in the poetry world.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
You've given us plenty to think about.
What about you, Chris?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Well, certainly being influenced by the landscape is
a big part of it, but there's somuch history and culture and
California is a place that'sshifted a lot, even recently.
I know Lee Herrick mentioned ina recent conversation he was
having that 25% of the peoplethat live in California right
(20:58):
now were born outside of theUnited States, not just outside
of California, but outside ofthe United States of communities
of voices, which is reflectedin these landscapes.
(21:18):
We have the mountains and thedeserts and the oceans and all
that, but we also have thesehighways.
We have Lake Tahoe in the samestate that we have the Salton
Sea, and they're very differentlandscapes.
California was made on creativeculture, so much of it between
San Francisco but then Hollywood.
I mean we've got to talk aboutHollywood if we talk about any
(21:40):
kind of artistic culture and theinfluence of California.
But there's just there's somuch going on here that poetry
is one of those arts that cangrasp on to little bits of
pieces, bits and pieces ofdifferent things and I there are
(22:02):
so many of those something Ilearned when I first began doing
the in-person literary seriesevents in santa barbara was that
santa barbara in the early1900s was like the hub of the
film industry.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I think that was around 1910.
But then they started buildingthe studios and everything in LA
.
So that's a little bit ofhistory that I think is worth
mentioning.
If you think of the creativeteams that are put together to
make a movie or a commercial,even a still shoot, a
photographic fashion shoot,there is so much creativity
(22:37):
involved.
California isn't just a hub foragriculture.
This is a huge creative state.
And one other aspect of thisidentity, of where you live if
you are considered a Californianbecause you've lived here for
so many years or you have tohave been born here to be a
Californian, I think hassomething to do with the soil,
(22:57):
with the earth.
I say this because I trulybelieve that land everywhere
holds our history, and so youmight have one of your poets who
have moved here to Californiaand they've written a poem and
it's in your book.
But maybe she was inspired bythe land and that can be about
(23:19):
California's beauty, herharshness, but it could also be
the trauma of the land.
I mean, think of what we'vebeen through with floods and
fires.
I think the land holds traumaand I like the idea of the land
whispering to us.
Diana, what are your thoughtson this idea?
Oh, it's a big question.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, I mean, because you know, I believe a lot in
life is energy, everything fromfriendships to land right and so
we're feeling the energy of thememories that are living here
and like, why did you gravitateto Ojai?
Why did I came, for, you know,a visit to a cousin in Santa
Barbara 25, 30 years ago, andI'm like I want to live here.
(23:59):
I don't know what it is, I justwant to live here and so it's
just.
I do believe that the land doeshold memories, there's no doubt
about it.
I mean, then, especially whenyou're talking about the Chumash
Indians, who you know, we're onChumash land and you go up and
you just feel it, you just feelthat energy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, you sure do, Chris.
Women in a Golden State is acollection of poetry by women
over 60 currently living inCalifornia.
What were the submissioncriteria and how did you shape
your vision for the anthology?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, I think one of the strengths of the book is
that there wasn't a very, verystrict vision going into it.
We kind of shaped thecollection based on the poems
that came from the submitters.
So at first we thought, youknow, we were getting poems from
people that were establishedpoets, that we knew had a
(24:53):
contact, who are familiar withhow to respond, and they were
sending us you know, three pagepoems or you know a bunch of
different poems for us to selectfrom and we think, oh, we're
going to take three poems fromthis person and three poems from
that person.
But then we got this, continuedto get this flood of poetry and
from voices that werecompletely unfamiliar to us,
(25:15):
people that we'd never met.
And one of my favorite parts ofthis book is the bios at the
back, where you have somebodywho's you know, a woman in her
70s or 80s who has had a fullcareer doing something unrelated
to literature, unrelated towriting in any way, who has come
(25:35):
to poetry late in life, hasnever published a book but is
able to write these poems thatyou just can connect with.
You can feel the emotionaltruth in them and the wisdom in
them, and it doesn't necessarilycome just from a life of being
a poet.
It comes from having a fulllife as a woman.
So we decided, instead ofhaving these larger selections
(25:57):
by more established poets, justkeep everybody, go fully
democratic and just sayeverybody gets one page.
So from people that have beenpoet laureates of their counties
or their cities to those peoplethat are writing for the first
time, they get one page.
It's just alphabetical order.
They're not ranked in any way.
(26:19):
But bringing together a diverseset of voices, there's not a
voice.
You know, there's not a voice.
It's many voices that cametogether to create this book.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I love this because California is a set of diverse
voices.
Diana, do you have anything toadd?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
No, I think she said it all.
That's absolutely perfect.
I think the I was glad becausewe're going back and forth about
having less poets and having,you know, three poems from one
poet from each poet.
But I think we get morediversity this way and I like
the idea that Chris had about175 poems to celebrate the
anniversary of California 175years.
(27:03):
That was a fantastic idea Sortof you know, good for the
marketing and so and we gavemore people a chance to get
published, which was great,although it was a lot of work
dealing with 175 people andemails and that kind of thing,
but it's worked out.
Everyone's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
How long would you say the actual process was from
choosing over all thesubmissions to actually
publishing the book fromchoosing over all the
submissions to actuallypublishing the book.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It was insanely quick .
It was very, very fast.
We had the dinner where we kindof came up with the rough
framework.
We put out the call, likewithin a week or two, I think,
we had a call posted out topeople.
Then we refined that call anddistributed it even more and the
flood arrived, bringing with itmany poems from many different
people, and then we just startedshaping it and working it and
(27:59):
it came together very quickly, Iwould say eight months, maybe
Eight months or not, that much.
Yeah, yeah, probably about eightmonths, so quicker than a human
.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think that's one of the joys of working with a
small publisher too, yes, that'sfor sure.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And especially when you're friends, what keeps you
both rooted in California?
And has the landscape, literalor literary, become part of your
creative identities?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I was born here in San Diego and my parents
both grew up here and mygrandparents lived close to each
other down in San Diego as well.
So I had a long history, a lotof family here, and I've lived
in California my whole life.
I mean, I've traveled some andvisited places, but California
(28:46):
has always been home.
I'm still kind of one of theones who lives far away by
living in Santa Barbara, whichis not very far from San Diego
by most measures.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I guess it depends on the traffic.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It can be a drive.
It's a beautiful train ride ifyou have a good book.
So there's lots of ways aroundit.
But I always felt veryconnected to being from
California.
The music, again listening tothe music.
That just made me believe thatCalifornia was the center of the
universe and I was so lucky tobe part of it.
I very much identify as aCalifornian.
(29:19):
I have my California bear flagtattoo.
You know that's part of myidentity.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
What about you, Diana ?
Well, I have a Heather tattoo.
Oh, you're funny.
I meant, do you identify withCalifornia?
But you do have a sweet tattoo.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But no the same.
I mean I felt like I shouldhave moved to California a long
time ago.
I felt really at home here thefirst time I came.
Where did you move from?
I moved from Florida, orlando,florida, which I absolutely
hated, but my husband startedhis business there and he's an
engineer a lot of youngengineers down there near Disney
but I couldn't wait to leave.
(30:00):
So but, yeah, I was here Iguess in my twenties and then
came back later on, but yeah, itjust felt like home.
It's like what am I doing?
I mean the whole Californiavibe, the whole.
It just felt like home.
It's like what am I doing?
I mean the whole Californiavibe, the whole.
I also love music.
Concerts is my happy place, andso, yeah, it just felt
(30:20):
comfortable.
I never felt at home in Florida, did not feel, you know, I
hated the weather and the people.
I just, culturally andspiritually, this is just home
for me.
Yeah, at least in some pastlives or something, I don't know
.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well, we are truly lucky to be living here.
Yeah, aren't we Very blessed?
Okay, what are you bothcurrently reading?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I will go first.
There's so much good stuff.
One of the things that I'mgrateful for in our community is
because we have the Universityof California, santa Barbara.
They bring a lot of wonderfulauthors.
So we had Ross Gay comerecently.
His Book of Delights is reallyfun.
It's this very short littleessay type things.
(31:02):
And then Val Knupp, one of ourpoets that's in the I think
she's in the collection.
She's wonderful Ruined music.
And David Starkey, who's ourpublisher, our founding
publisher for Gunpowder Press.
His book the Moon Shall NotGive Her Light is just amazing
and it's kind of a retelling ofthe gospel and he's not a
(31:27):
religious person but he'slooking at it through the art
and through the history ofrepresentations and it's a
beautiful book, and ChrisGunpowder Press is primarily a
poetry publisher right.
Gunpowder Press is all poetry.
Yes, One of the books wepublished recently was Lee
Herrick's In Praise of LateWonder.
(31:47):
That book is wonderful.
It includes these kind ofmemoir, mini essay poems, so
they're more on the prose poemside.
So we do, you know, tip ourtoes into these little prose-ish
things, but we are a poetrypress and they're in this
collection as well.
In Women in a Golden Statethere are some less poetic kind
(32:10):
of memoir-y, essay-ish kind ofbits.
But you know, those genres arereally merging and kind of
blending and allow you to kindof flex in and out of them.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Do you publish chapbooks, and are they popular
here in the US?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yes, they're wonderful and you can do them on
anything from just a copier.
If you have a Xerox machine andstapler, you can make a
chapbook.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So, with that in mind , would you call a zine a
chapbook.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It's a similar zine, usually has more contributors,
it's a little more visual.
Chapbook is originally a cheapbook, really kind of that idea
that it's just something veryinexpensive, almost a pamphlet,
that brings together some poems.
We don't publish a lot of those, but we do a wonderful series
(32:56):
called the Alta CaliforniaChatbook Series and that's one
of the things we do at Gunpowder, which those are bilingual.
So they end up, even thoughit's only eight to 10 pages of
poems, they're published side byside in English and Spanish, so
they become a little bit largerand those have been amazing and
(33:17):
we publish those with.
Our editor, emma Treas helps uswith those.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
When I was younger, I would often see my brothers or
my father or my grandfather witha thing that looked like a
cross between a paperback and acomic.
Mostly they were westerns orsci-fi or you know some gripping
tale.
They were rolled up and theykept them in their back pockets
of their jeans and I thoughtthat was so great.
(33:42):
So it's kind of like the zinesare coming back to that.
Diana, what about you?
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Well, I read across all the genres depending on my
mood, and so at my bedside, onmy night table, I always have a
stack of books, and I don't readone at a time.
I always have a book of poemsby Rumi, which is why I named my
dog Rumi.
And then recently I read ModernPoetry by Diane Seuss, who I
(34:10):
happen to like because she doesa lot of memoirish writing as
well nostalgia.
She lost her dad when she wasquite young and so she believes,
and I believe too, that poetryis a way to keep our beloveds
alive, you know, in that kind ofway, with words.
I'm also reading Pico Ayer, whoI adore, his new book A Flame.
(34:31):
I mean, he's been on like 500writing or not writing retreats,
just retreats, and so thisone's about his retreat in Big
Sur, and talk about Californialandscape.
I mean, that's where my ashesare going.
So I'm very obsessed with BigSur.
Actually, if I wasn't living inSanta Barbara, that's where I'd
be.
So he's a huge inspiration andhe speaks a lot here in Santa
(34:54):
Barbara.
It's great to listen.
And then, lastly, um, you askedwhat book is kind of rummaging
around or lingering in ourthoughts, and the book for me
has been the book of alchemy bySulika Joud I don't know if I'm
pronouncing right.
She is jean-baptiste's wife, um, who's had a lot of health
crises for a 30 something yearold woman, but she's an amazing
(35:18):
writer and, uh, very powerfuland so just uh, just making, uh
how can I say?
Making the most of hersituation in the most positive
attitude and just beautiful,very crafty writer.
So those are what's sitting onmy bedside table right now.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
And what a blessing and a relief to be able to turn
to an art form to expressyourself, especially when you're
going through health issues ordepression.
Okay, Chris, where can peoplefind Gunpowder Press online?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Gunpowderpresscom.
Well, that's easy, that's easy,easy.
But we're available everywhere,you know, if you prefer to buy
from some other, you know,bookshoporg is a wonderful
independent connection forbookshops.
A lot of bookshops in the SantaBarbara area are carrying the
book, but I am the shippingdepartment as well as the
(36:12):
editing department, so I'm happyto print out a label and mail
off books all over the country.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
And I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to
the cover.
Designer of Women in a GoldenState.
It is absolutely beautiful.
I find myself sometimes staringat the book and discovering
images.
It's quite surreal.
It's beautiful.
Diana, where can people findyou online?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
On my website, dianarabcom.
And yeah, I'm on social media.
I don't post all that much, butI do you have to be present as
a writer on social media.
I don't post all that much, butI do.
You have to be present as awriter on social media.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, you do.
I guess I find myself that I gothrough stages where I loathe
being on social media, but thenI realized that what I'm doing
is I'm actually on too manyplatforms, so I just pick a few,
and Instagram is definitely oneof them where I feel it matches
my personality and what I doand what I'm trying to promote a
(37:16):
little better, and blue skiescoming up.
Yeah, I heard about that.
Now can you share anything?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
about it.
It will be more familiar topeople that have used Twitter a
little bit more, which was neverone of my main platforms.
So there's a learning curvethere and it's still kind of
getting up and going, but it's.
It's nice that it's independentand it's a good, a good third
space.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yes, exactly Well, Chris and Diana, thank you so
much for being on the show.
Thank you for co-editing andpublishing through Gunpowder
Press.
Women in a Golden State.
I appreciate that the piecesare written by women over 60.
Yes, it's lovely.
So thank you so much and thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Thank you for having us.
Your enthusiasm is contagious.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You've been listening to my conversation with Chris
Yost and Diana Rapp, co-editorsthrough Gunpowder Press of Women
in a Golden State, a beautifulcollection of poetry written by
women over 60.
I highly recommend thisbeautiful collection of poetry.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(38:24):
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To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
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You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on Instagram
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(38:47):
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
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The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly, and
my executive assistant andgraphic designer is Adrian
(39:08):
Ottahan.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a
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Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast.
Each week, I present interviewswith authors, independent
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(00:33):
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You're listening to episode 298.
This episode is sponsored bySaturn Press.
Hey, indie bookshops, did youknow that greeting cards are a
fantastic way for bookshops toboost sales?
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As a thank you for tuning intothe Bookshop Podcast, saturn
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adding cards to your bookshopcan make a big difference to
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Here's to supporting localbookshops.
One card at a time.
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And if you're in the SantaBarbara area of Southern
California, pop into Chaucer'sBooks.
Chaucer's Books has a fabulousselection of Saturn Press cards.
(01:37):
Plus, they're one of myfavorite local independent
bookshops.
Diana Rabb, mfa, phd, is amemoirist, poet, workshop leader
, thought leader andaward-winning author of 14 books
and editor of three anthologies.
Her work has been widelypublished and anthologized.
Her poems have been nominatedfor the Pushcart Prize and the
(02:00):
Best of the Net.
She frequently speaks andwrites on writing for healing
and transformation.
Rapp writes for PsychologyToday, the Good Men Project 60
and Me Medium and is a guestwriter for many others.
Her newest memoir isHummingbird Messages from my
Ancestors.
Chris Yost is a poet, designerand educator based in Santa
(02:24):
Barbara, california.
She is the co-editor ofGunpowder Press and a Santa
Barbara Poet Laureate.
Hi, diana and Chris, it's greatto have you both here, thank
you.
Thank you for the invitation.
A little later we'll bechatting about the poetry book
you both co-edited, women in aGolden State, published by
Gunpowder Press.
But before then, I'd like toknow a little bit about you both
(02:46):
, chris.
Let's start with you.
You are a designer, a poet andan educator, and you served as
Santa Barbara's Poet Laureatefrom 2013 to 2015.
Was there a defining moment inyour youth when poetry first
revealed its beauty and power toyou?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, for me it started really young.
When I was in about fourth grade, I just had a wonderful teacher
who would let me work out allmy angst and desire to avoid
recess by staying in theclassroom and writing poems, and
this generous, amazing womanwould give me feedback on almost
(03:24):
every one of these little fiveand a half page things that I
would do and it instilled in mea sense of being listened to, a
sense of being heard that Ireally valued.
And then, of course, lifehappened and I got very busy and
I was always a reader and lovedreading.
But it wasn't until I was atUCSB and in a class with John
(03:46):
Ridland, a Santa Barbara poet,that I really rediscovered my
love for poetry.
And his angle was always veryformal and looking at the
construction of poetry and theway that words worked, and
looking at almost as a puzzle,as a game of how do you get
(04:07):
these emotions to fit togetherin these forms.
And I just loved that, not justas something to read and feel,
but as something to craft.
I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
It sounds like you've always enjoyed reading poetry.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yes, when I was very young we had books around the
house.
I was very lucky that mygrandmother was a great reader
and had tons of books.
So from the children's book,the golden children's book that
a lot of people had, and all theway up through it was great.
And when I was a mom and verybusy when I was younger, poetry
(04:43):
was something you could stillread.
When you didn't maybe have timeto read a novel, you could
still manage to read a poem ortwo.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
That's a poem or a short story, they're always good
to have handy.
What drew you to becomeco-editor at Gunpowder Press, an
independent poetry publisherand literary 501c3?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, I was writing a lot of poems, had a manuscript
together and was finding it verydifficult to get published.
I had a publisher that wasinterested but they were like,
yeah, it'll be a few years untilit appears.
Meanwhile, my good friend,david Starkey, had a book that
he was trying to get published,written by David Case, who had
(05:24):
passed away, and he had beenleft as David Case's literary
executor and nobody wanted topublish a book by a poet that
wasn't going to be able to dothe circuit and sell their own
work.
So David came to me and he said, hey, I know you've got a book
you're trying to get published.
I've got this book by DavidCase that I'm trying to get
published.
What if we make that the firsttwo books that start this new
(05:47):
press?
And I said, absolutely, thatsounds fantastic.
And we came up with the nameGunpowder Press, which honors St
Barbara, who's the patron saintof gunpowder, among other
things.
And then it just took off fromthere.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
We published that in 2014, published our first two
books and we're going strong,and did you ever feel that there
was a particular gap in thepoetry landscape that you felt
called to fill?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Definitely Just in the time of gunpowder press's
existence.
You're seeing a lot morepresses all over the country,
but at the time when we werestarting it was really still New
York, heavily New York.
There was maybe one or twoplaces in California, but you
didn't have places in theMidwest.
(06:33):
A lot of this is new,relatively new.
The poetry presses that havethe biggest impact I mean even
Milkweed, tupelo are relativelyyoung presses and so just with
an opportunity to do somethingbased in California and it's
been fantastic, even though wedo publish poets from across the
(06:53):
country we're not onlyCalifornia.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, I have a real soft spot for small and medium
presses.
I admire the courage of thepublishers.
They're prepared to take onsomething that's most likely not
going to make millions, butthey take a chance on something
that is maybe new and different.
I have a real soft spot forsmall and medium presses Looking
at prizes, like the Booker, theauthors from small and medium
(07:17):
presses are doing extremely well.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yes, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Diana, you were on the show last year and we spoke
about your beautiful memoirHummingbird and I swear every
time I see a hummingbird whichis quite often in Southern
California I think of yourgorgeous book.
Now you are also the author offive poetry collections,
multiple books of nonfiction anda gifted writing teacher.
I say this because I have manyfriends who have done your
(07:43):
classes.
Now, for readers who feelunsure about poetry, what advice
would you offer to help thembegin exploring the medium?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, first of all, thank you for having me and us
on the show again.
I love your shows very much andyour events.
Well, I would say, like I tellmy students, if you want to be a
writer or a poet, you need toread a lot of poetry or whatever
you want to write, because youknow emulation is the biggest
form of flattery and reading forenjoyment it's also.
(08:15):
It's also a way to learntechnique.
So you have to get curiousabout all different types of
poetry and sometimes I suggestreading anthologies, because you
have a collection of differentpoets.
Find the ones that resonatewith you and then read all the
poems from that person.
That's what I often suggest.
You also want to try to make anote of what the poet's trying
(08:36):
to accomplish and how it's beingdone.
Francine Pose wrote a book yearsago it's called Reading Like a
Writer writer, which is reallygood.
It kind of gives some reallygood tips on that.
Unfortunately, my generation umdidn't really get inspired in
the early years of school forpoetry because it was not taught
in a very inspiring way, and so, luckily, over the years I've
(09:01):
started reading morecontemporary poets and it's more
resonates with me more.
Another thing that I wouldsuggest is taking poetry
workshops, either at writersconferences or virtually
whatever works in your schedule.
Poets are also very keenobservers.
I always suggest carrying ajournal, because you just never
know.
You know when the thought orthe image or the energy of
(09:24):
something that you want tocreate into a poem comes to you
it's very early at your desk forme anyway as soon as you want
them out and about.
And another thing is maybe geta collection of writing prompts
if you're having troublecreating your own poems.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Diana, I know you are busy teaching your memoir class
, especially in Santa Barbara,but do you have an online
platform for poets to gather andshare their work?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Actually I do not.
People have asked me to.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, it's all about time, right?
It's so difficult to find thetime to do all these creative
things that we want to do yeahit's true.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's true, I'm giving a workshop coming up at
Godmothers in Summerlin, turningpersonal experiences into
poetry.
So I try to give like littleworkshops here and there, but
I've not really done a lotonline.
But I'll look into it, thankyou for that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
One of the things I love about social media is that
it has allowed creatives whomaybe are a bit shy to put
themselves out there as far as apublisher or a gallery owner,
but they will put themselves onsocial media and I've seen a lot
of poets do this young poetsand every now and again I'll go
back to see what they're doingand check their work and what I
(10:40):
found is that their art isgrowing, it's taking shape.
They're not all going to bebrilliant poets, but they're all
finding their distinctivevoices.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, a lot of poets have become very famous, haven't
they on Instagram?
Also, agents and publishersfind them on Instagram.
So you're right, it's a verygood venue, Chris.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
what are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I was just going to say.
I think in some ways poetry,more than any other form of
writing, is very similar tomusic.
I mean, it's got that lyricalquality.
You know, you can just listento a song.
You don't have to like thewhole album by the band, you can
just listen to one song andfind it wonderful, which is why
we have these little K-telcollections that we call
anthologies.
(11:21):
So, like you said, you don'tlike all of it that you see on
Instagram, maybe, but that'sokay and you can just get
exposed to it.
And there's a whole lot ofpoetry that I do not like.
There's a lot of it that justdoesn't click for me in the same
way, and that's okay.
So when people say, do you likepoetry or not like poetry, it's
(11:44):
kind of a strange questionsometimes, because you'll meet
people who say I don't likepoetry.
It just makes me feel likeDiana was mentioning that they
just haven't been exposed to itin the right way, that somebody
made them try to memorizesomething, or it was a forced
assignment and it wasn't theright poem for them at the right
time.
But there's so much poetry outthere, how can you say you just
(12:07):
don't like it?
It's strange.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, I completely agree.
And also, any art form issubjective to the reader or the
viewer, right?
Yeah, something that I'mfinding more and more on social
media and in gallery exhibitionsis the mixing of visual arts
and poetry, or just words ontheir own, and I love this kind
(12:29):
of art.
It's like a collage ofcreativity.
Have either of you played withthis medium?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, I actually gave a journaling class when I was
living in Florida poetry and Itaught it with a visual artist
and it was so much fun becausepeople love that.
But I've not seen that manybooks in that way.
Some of the younger writers, Ithink are doing that Right,
chris.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, there's a lot of them, and the visual arts and
literary arts, I think,continue to influence each other
.
Our cover was done by a SantaBarbara artist, mary Huebner,
and these are dyads that areinspired by myths, you know,
like literary myths, that shemade into collage and then made
their way onto our book, whichis a collage of poems, collage
(13:16):
and then made their way onto ourbook, which is a collage of
poems, so they do all weavetogether.
Linda Saccoccio is a local poetwho's a painter and is doing a
book that's going to be comingout later this year.
That does, you know, poems andpaintings side by side, and
we've done quite a few acrosticcollections at Gunpowder Press,
where we invite poets to go tothe Santa Barbara Museum of Art
(13:38):
or to Lotusland and to writepoems in response to works of
art.
We don't usually print themside by side because of the
copyright issues and colorprinting issues.
It becomes much more expensiveto produce the book, but it is a
great source of inspiration forpoets constantly.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, I agree.
And, Diana, it's a little bit,like you said, you never know
when inspiration is going to hit, so you have to carry that
little book in your purse aroundwith you.
Now, diana, you are no strangerto anthologies.
So what inspired you to co-editWomen in a Golden State with
Chris, and how did the ideaevolve from its initial spark
into a fully realized collection?
(14:16):
I'd love to hear how this ideablossomed.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Well, you never know what inspiration hits.
But yes, that's true.
And so this is my thirdanthology and I was dealing with
some health issues.
Last year I did do a lot ofwriting as a poem here and there
, and so Chris and I had dinnerand we were just talking about
all kinds of things and Imentioned that I'm just kind of
in a lull.
I really don't know what mynext project is going to be in,
(14:41):
which is kind of unlike me.
I've always been working on oneor two books at a time, and so
she's a fantastic brainstormer.
If anyone needs a brainstormer,just call her.
And so.
But I didn't know that reallyuntil we had this dinner, even
though I've known her for a longtime.
Actually, no, I did.
We did brainstorm some years agoover another glass of wine, and
(15:05):
so she kind of sat there.
I said, yeah, I just don't knowwhat my next project is.
And she just sat there and Ican feel her brain moving.
She said, uh, what about ananthology?
And I went, oh, been there,done that.
You know, it's kind of likehoarding all these kindergarten
students into a room and to dotheir work and their bios and
(15:27):
and all that.
I'm like I really don't want todo that, and so we continued
our conversation.
I went home and I thought, hmm,maybe that is a good idea, maybe
that is my next stage it's not,like you know, full on writing,
but it's something thatinterests me and what would the
subject be?
And then I thought about I hadjust turned 70.
And I thought aging was on mymind.
(15:48):
So I thought something aboutaging.
And then I thought back mymother's 94.
And you know, she's not, she'skind of aging gracefully, I
suppose in a nursing home.
But I thought back to a collegeessay that I wrote many, many,
many years ago about aginggracefully, and I thought, well,
I guess this has been on mymind for quite some time, let me
(16:10):
, let me investigate that.
So I emailed Chris and she'slike, hold on a minute, don't do
anything with that.
And she went to speak to Davidand I guess she said well, we
might be interested in that ideaof an anthology on aging,
related to aging.
So that's how it started Over aglass of wine, glass of wine.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, chris, do you have anything to add?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Chris, do you have anything to add?
Across the globe, as thisamazing mythical creatures of
what is a California girl andrealizing that that song was
getting to be a certain age andall the women that could relate
to that song were getting to bea certain age, it really created
an opportunity of what does itmean to age in California, which
(17:14):
is a state or a culture thattends to be focused on youth,
and that there's so much wisdomand so much care and brilliance
and creativity in thedemographic of older California
women that is not necessarilyrepresented in culture, in the
(17:35):
highly available culture.
So bringing that into a bookseemed like a really good
opportunity to shine a light onthese varied experiences and
these are experiences, positive,negative, people that have
lived in California from birth,people that have moved here a
year ago.
You know there's a lot of rangein the voices and the way they
(17:58):
are interacting with that tropeof the California girl and it's
exciting.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, I find this really interesting.
In a recent conversation forthe show with Belfast author
Lucy Caldwell, she reflected onhow the idea of being an Irish
author has changed over time andthat made me wonder well, what
does it mean to be a Californianpoet or author in 2025?
(18:24):
And how has that identityevolved over the last century
and where do we see it going?
And that segues beautifullyinto my next question how did
you both decide what made a poetCalifornian?
In other words, was it how longthey'd lived here, for were
they born here?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
uh, well, you know, being a poet in California can
mean different things dependingon what perspective you're
thinking of.
Uh, it could be someone thatwrites about landscapes, but it
can also be about poets that areinspired by being in California
.
You know, california is a meccaof creativity.
I live in the Santa Barbaraarea and we have a lot of
(19:04):
creatives here, and it's areally great way to become
inspired.
You know our landscapes.
We've got varied landscapesmountains, desert, ocean and so
the whole idea of Californiadreaming is real.
And you know, california hasbeen long associated with
innovation and poets.
You know, in Silicon Valley, etcetera, and so also being in
(19:27):
California, you know we'restanding on the shoulders of
some giant poets like Ginsburgand Robinson, jeffers and Juan
Philip Herrera and many, manyothers, and so I think being a
poet in California in 2025 isreally about, I would say,
navigating the landscape whilebeing enriched with the
technological tools that we have, which sometimes are a blessing
(19:49):
, sometimes are a curse.
It's also about the collectiveconsciousness.
I think we're becoming more ofa collective consciousness about
spreading the word about poetry.
People are less intimidated bypoetry and sharing their
feelings through poetry, whichis an emotional genre, sharing
their feelings aboutcontemporary issues through the
(20:11):
art of poetry, and I see thishappening more and more, unless
there's much less of anintimidation Poetry you were
asking, like how it's going tochange in the future.
I just think that people areless intimidated.
You know it's on social media alittle bit more.
The poems are poems that areaccessible and they resonate
with people.
I think things are gettingbetter in the poetry world.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
You've given us plenty to think about.
What about you, Chris?
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Well, certainly being influenced by the landscape is
a big part of it, but there's somuch history and culture and
California is a place that'sshifted a lot, even recently.
I know Lee Herrick mentioned ina recent conversation he was
having that 25% of the peoplethat live in California right
(20:58):
now were born outside of theUnited States, not just outside
of California, but outside ofthe United States of communities
of voices, which is reflectedin these landscapes.
(21:18):
We have the mountains and thedeserts and the oceans and all
that, but we also have thesehighways.
We have Lake Tahoe in the samestate that we have the Salton
Sea, and they're very differentlandscapes.
California was made on creativeculture, so much of it between
San Francisco but then Hollywood.
I mean we've got to talk aboutHollywood if we talk about any
(21:40):
kind of artistic culture and theinfluence of California.
But there's just there's somuch going on here that poetry
is one of those arts that cangrasp on to little bits of
pieces, bits and pieces ofdifferent things and I there are
(22:02):
so many of those something Ilearned when I first began doing
the in-person literary seriesevents in santa barbara was that
santa barbara in the early1900s was like the hub of the
film industry.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I think that was around 1910.
But then they started buildingthe studios and everything in LA
.
So that's a little bit ofhistory that I think is worth
mentioning.
If you think of the creativeteams that are put together to
make a movie or a commercial,even a still shoot, a
photographic fashion shoot,there is so much creativity
(22:37):
involved.
California isn't just a hub foragriculture.
This is a huge creative state.
And one other aspect of thisidentity, of where you live if
you are considered a Californianbecause you've lived here for
so many years or you have tohave been born here to be a
Californian, I think hassomething to do with the soil,
(22:57):
with the earth.
I say this because I trulybelieve that land everywhere
holds our history, and so youmight have one of your poets who
have moved here to Californiaand they've written a poem and
it's in your book.
But maybe she was inspired bythe land and that can be about
(23:19):
California's beauty, herharshness, but it could also be
the trauma of the land.
I mean, think of what we'vebeen through with floods and
fires.
I think the land holds traumaand I like the idea of the land
whispering to us.
Diana, what are your thoughtson this idea?
Oh, it's a big question.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, I mean, because you know, I believe a lot in
life is energy, everything fromfriendships to land right and so
we're feeling the energy of thememories that are living here
and like, why did you gravitateto Ojai?
Why did I came, for, you know,a visit to a cousin in Santa
Barbara 25, 30 years ago, andI'm like I want to live here.
(23:59):
I don't know what it is, I justwant to live here and so it's
just.
I do believe that the land doeshold memories, there's no doubt
about it.
I mean, then, especially whenyou're talking about the Chumash
Indians, who you know, we're onChumash land and you go up and
you just feel it, you just feelthat energy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, you sure do, Chris.
Women in a Golden State is acollection of poetry by women
over 60 currently living inCalifornia.
What were the submissioncriteria and how did you shape
your vision for the anthology?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, I think one of the strengths of the book is
that there wasn't a very, verystrict vision going into it.
We kind of shaped thecollection based on the poems
that came from the submitters.
So at first we thought, youknow, we were getting poems from
people that were establishedpoets, that we knew had a
(24:53):
contact, who are familiar withhow to respond, and they were
sending us you know, three pagepoems or you know a bunch of
different poems for us to selectfrom and we think, oh, we're
going to take three poems fromthis person and three poems from
that person.
But then we got this, continuedto get this flood of poetry and
from voices that werecompletely unfamiliar to us,
(25:15):
people that we'd never met.
And one of my favorite parts ofthis book is the bios at the
back, where you have somebodywho's you know, a woman in her
70s or 80s who has had a fullcareer doing something unrelated
to literature, unrelated towriting in any way, who has come
(25:35):
to poetry late in life, hasnever published a book but is
able to write these poems thatyou just can connect with.
You can feel the emotionaltruth in them and the wisdom in
them, and it doesn't necessarilycome just from a life of being
a poet.
It comes from having a fulllife as a woman.
So we decided, instead ofhaving these larger selections
(25:57):
by more established poets, justkeep everybody, go fully
democratic and just sayeverybody gets one page.
So from people that have beenpoet laureates of their counties
or their cities to those peoplethat are writing for the first
time, they get one page.
It's just alphabetical order.
They're not ranked in any way.
(26:19):
But bringing together a diverseset of voices, there's not a
voice.
You know, there's not a voice.
It's many voices that cametogether to create this book.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I love this because California is a set of diverse
voices.
Diana, do you have anything toadd?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
No, I think she said it all.
That's absolutely perfect.
I think the I was glad becausewe're going back and forth about
having less poets and having,you know, three poems from one
poet from each poet.
But I think we get morediversity this way and I like
the idea that Chris had about175 poems to celebrate the
anniversary of California 175years.
(27:03):
That was a fantastic idea Sortof you know, good for the
marketing and so and we gavemore people a chance to get
published, which was great,although it was a lot of work
dealing with 175 people andemails and that kind of thing,
but it's worked out.
Everyone's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
How long would you say the actual process was from
choosing over all thesubmissions to actually
publishing the book fromchoosing over all the
submissions to actuallypublishing the book.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
It was insanely quick .
It was very, very fast.
We had the dinner where we kindof came up with the rough
framework.
We put out the call, likewithin a week or two, I think,
we had a call posted out topeople.
Then we refined that call anddistributed it even more and the
flood arrived, bringing with itmany poems from many different
people, and then we just startedshaping it and working it and
(27:59):
it came together very quickly, Iwould say eight months, maybe
Eight months or not, that much.
Yeah, yeah, probably about eightmonths, so quicker than a human
.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think that's one of the joys of working with a
small publisher too, yes, that'sfor sure.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
And especially when you're friends, what keeps you
both rooted in California?
And has the landscape, literalor literary, become part of your
creative identities?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I was born here in San Diego and my parents
both grew up here and mygrandparents lived close to each
other down in San Diego as well.
So I had a long history, a lotof family here, and I've lived
in California my whole life.
I mean, I've traveled some andvisited places, but California
(28:46):
has always been home.
I'm still kind of one of theones who lives far away by
living in Santa Barbara, whichis not very far from San Diego
by most measures.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I guess it depends on the traffic.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It can be a drive.
It's a beautiful train ride ifyou have a good book.
So there's lots of ways aroundit.
But I always felt veryconnected to being from
California.
The music, again listening tothe music.
That just made me believe thatCalifornia was the center of the
universe and I was so lucky tobe part of it.
I very much identify as aCalifornian.
(29:19):
I have my California bear flagtattoo.
You know that's part of myidentity.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
What about you, Diana ?
Well, I have a Heather tattoo.
Oh, you're funny.
I meant, do you identify withCalifornia?
But you do have a sweet tattoo.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But no the same.
I mean I felt like I shouldhave moved to California a long
time ago.
I felt really at home here thefirst time I came.
Where did you move from?
I moved from Florida, orlando,florida, which I absolutely
hated, but my husband startedhis business there and he's an
engineer a lot of youngengineers down there near Disney
but I couldn't wait to leave.
(30:00):
So but, yeah, I was here Iguess in my twenties and then
came back later on, but yeah, itjust felt like home.
It's like what am I doing?
I mean the whole Californiavibe, the whole.
It just felt like home.
It's like what am I doing?
I mean the whole Californiavibe, the whole.
I also love music.
Concerts is my happy place, andso, yeah, it just felt
(30:20):
comfortable.
I never felt at home in Florida, did not feel, you know, I
hated the weather and the people.
I just, culturally andspiritually, this is just home
for me.
Yeah, at least in some pastlives or something, I don't know
.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well, we are truly lucky to be living here.
Yeah, aren't we Very blessed?
Okay, what are you bothcurrently reading?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I will go first.
There's so much good stuff.
One of the things that I'mgrateful for in our community is
because we have the Universityof California, santa Barbara.
They bring a lot of wonderfulauthors.
So we had Ross Gay comerecently.
His Book of Delights is reallyfun.
It's this very short littleessay type things.
(31:02):
And then Val Knupp, one of ourpoets that's in the I think
she's in the collection.
She's wonderful Ruined music.
And David Starkey, who's ourpublisher, our founding
publisher for Gunpowder Press.
His book the Moon Shall NotGive Her Light is just amazing
and it's kind of a retelling ofthe gospel and he's not a
(31:27):
religious person but he'slooking at it through the art
and through the history ofrepresentations and it's a
beautiful book, and ChrisGunpowder Press is primarily a
poetry publisher right.
Gunpowder Press is all poetry.
Yes, One of the books wepublished recently was Lee
Herrick's In Praise of LateWonder.
(31:47):
That book is wonderful.
It includes these kind ofmemoir, mini essay poems, so
they're more on the prose poemside.
So we do, you know, tip ourtoes into these little prose-ish
things, but we are a poetrypress and they're in this
collection as well.
In Women in a Golden Statethere are some less poetic kind
(32:10):
of memoir-y, essay-ish kind ofbits.
But you know, those genres arereally merging and kind of
blending and allow you to kindof flex in and out of them.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Do you publish chapbooks, and are they popular
here in the US?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yes, they're wonderful and you can do them on
anything from just a copier.
If you have a Xerox machine andstapler, you can make a
chapbook.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So, with that in mind , would you call a zine a
chapbook.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It's a similar zine, usually has more contributors,
it's a little more visual.
Chapbook is originally a cheapbook, really kind of that idea
that it's just something veryinexpensive, almost a pamphlet,
that brings together some poems.
We don't publish a lot of those, but we do a wonderful series
(32:56):
called the Alta CaliforniaChatbook Series and that's one
of the things we do at Gunpowder, which those are bilingual.
So they end up, even thoughit's only eight to 10 pages of
poems, they're published side byside in English and Spanish, so
they become a little bit largerand those have been amazing and
(33:17):
we publish those with.
Our editor, emma Treas helps uswith those.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
When I was younger, I would often see my brothers or
my father or my grandfather witha thing that looked like a
cross between a paperback and acomic.
Mostly they were westerns orsci-fi or you know some gripping
tale.
They were rolled up and theykept them in their back pockets
of their jeans and I thoughtthat was so great.
(33:42):
So it's kind of like the zinesare coming back to that.
Diana, what about you?
What are you currently reading?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Well, I read across all the genres depending on my
mood, and so at my bedside, onmy night table, I always have a
stack of books, and I don't readone at a time.
I always have a book of poemsby Rumi, which is why I named my
dog Rumi.
And then recently I read ModernPoetry by Diane Seuss, who I
(34:10):
happen to like because she doesa lot of memoirish writing as
well nostalgia.
She lost her dad when she wasquite young and so she believes,
and I believe too, that poetryis a way to keep our beloveds
alive, you know, in that kind ofway, with words.
I'm also reading Pico Ayer, whoI adore, his new book A Flame.
(34:31):
I mean, he's been on like 500writing or not writing retreats,
just retreats, and so thisone's about his retreat in Big
Sur, and talk about Californialandscape.
I mean, that's where my ashesare going.
So I'm very obsessed with BigSur.
Actually, if I wasn't living inSanta Barbara, that's where I'd
be.
So he's a huge inspiration andhe speaks a lot here in Santa
(34:54):
Barbara.
It's great to listen.
And then, lastly, um, you askedwhat book is kind of rummaging
around or lingering in ourthoughts, and the book for me
has been the book of alchemy bySulika Joud I don't know if I'm
pronouncing right.
She is jean-baptiste's wife, um, who's had a lot of health
crises for a 30 something yearold woman, but she's an amazing
(35:18):
writer and, uh, very powerfuland so just uh, just making, uh
how can I say?
Making the most of hersituation in the most positive
attitude and just beautiful,very crafty writer.
So those are what's sitting onmy bedside table right now.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
And what a blessing and a relief to be able to turn
to an art form to expressyourself, especially when you're
going through health issues ordepression.
Okay, Chris, where can peoplefind Gunpowder Press online?
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Gunpowderpresscom.
Well, that's easy, that's easy,easy.
But we're available everywhere,you know, if you prefer to buy
from some other, you know,bookshoporg is a wonderful
independent connection forbookshops.
A lot of bookshops in the SantaBarbara area are carrying the
book, but I am the shippingdepartment as well as the
(36:12):
editing department, so I'm happyto print out a label and mail
off books all over the country.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
And I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to
the cover.
Designer of Women in a GoldenState.
It is absolutely beautiful.
I find myself sometimes staringat the book and discovering
images.
It's quite surreal.
It's beautiful.
Diana, where can people findyou online?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
On my website, dianarabcom.
And yeah, I'm on social media.
I don't post all that much, butI do you have to be present as
a writer on social media.
I don't post all that much, butI do.
You have to be present as awriter on social media.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, you do.
I guess I find myself that I gothrough stages where I loathe
being on social media, but thenI realized that what I'm doing
is I'm actually on too manyplatforms, so I just pick a few,
and Instagram is definitely oneof them where I feel it matches
my personality and what I doand what I'm trying to promote a
(37:16):
little better, and blue skiescoming up.
Yeah, I heard about that.
Now can you share anything?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
about it.
It will be more familiar topeople that have used Twitter a
little bit more, which was neverone of my main platforms.
So there's a learning curvethere and it's still kind of
getting up and going, but it's.
It's nice that it's independentand it's a good, a good third
space.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yes, exactly Well, Chris and Diana, thank you so
much for being on the show.
Thank you for co-editing andpublishing through Gunpowder
Press.
Women in a Golden State.
I appreciate that the piecesare written by women over 60.
Yes, it's lovely.
So thank you so much and thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Thank you for having us.
Your enthusiasm is contagious.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You've been listening to my conversation with Chris
Yost and Diana Rapp, co-editorsthrough Gunpowder Press of Women
in a Golden State, a beautifulcollection of poetry written by
women over 60.
I highly recommend thisbeautiful collection of poetry.
To help the show reach morepeople, please share episodes
with friends and family and onsocial media, and remember to
(38:24):
subscribe and leave a reviewwherever you listen to this
podcast.
To find out more about theBookshop Podcast, go to
thebookshoppodcastcom and makesure to subscribe and leave a
review wherever you listen tothe show.
You can also follow me at MandyJackson Beverly on Instagram
and Facebook and on YouTube atthe Bookshop Podcast.
(38:47):
If you have a favorite indiebookshop that you'd like to
suggest we have on the podcast,I'd love to hear from you via
the contact form atthebookshoppodcastcom.
The Bookshop Podcast is writtenand produced by me, mandy
Jackson-Beverly, theme musicprovided by Brian Beverly, and
my executive assistant andgraphic designer is Adrian
(39:08):
Ottahan.
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you next time.
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