October 25, 2023 • 54 mins
Has your work life ever felt like it's swallowing up your personal life? Do you want to thrive in your career without sacrificing your love story? With pastors and power couple Earl and Oneka McClellan as our guests, we take a deep journey into the compelling dynamics of maintaining a successful work-life and love-life balance. This charismatic duo has been married for 26 years, and their insightful tips about fostering a strong bond are absolute GOLD.
Get ready to break the myth of work-life balance and discover the importance of rhythm in family life. Earl and Oneka share their views on effective communication and understanding the dynamics of work and personal relationships. We don't just stop at harmony; we dive into courage, risk-taking, and the power of unwavering support in pursuing dreams. But it's real life - and that means challenges, insecurities, and failures. Fear not! The McClellans open up about how these experiences have only fortified their bond, and how they can do the same for you.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
For us.
We see our life more, we thinkmore rhythm.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Holistically.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Yeah than balance.
We think like, oh, do we needto lead into our kids right now?
Let's make sure tonight is anight that we're going to be
doing movies and popcorn ormaking pizza together.
Hey, we've been running prettyhard over the last few days.
Let's make sure.
Have we gone on a date night?
Man, we haven't.
Let's make sure we take sometime out to do that.
(00:27):
Hey, let's make sure we get thekids down to bed at the right
time this evening so we can havesome time afterwards to cuddle.
Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You're listening to the Bop the business of
photography podcast with RobGreen, a photographer to
contagiously positive clientsand fierce believer in building
people focused businesses thatleave a lasting impact.
If you're an entrepreneur withdreams in your head, ideas in
your heart and passions burningdeep down in your soul, this is
the perfect place to be, becausethis is where dreams come to
(01:07):
thrive.
So are you ready to build yourbusiness, wow your clients and
make photo magic?
Here's your host, Rob Green.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Aw, coming at you from DFW Texas, you are
listening to the Bop.
So great to be here with youtoday for the very first episode
from the new home andheadquarters for Square 8 Studio
.
If you missed the season twopremiere, first of all, you
should totally go back and checkit out because my friends Erica
and John brought so much valueand encouragement to that first
(01:41):
episode.
But also you kind of missed abig life update for me.
After 10 years in Fort Worth,texas, I have relocated.
I am now a little more centralto the DFW Metroplex in a home
that y'all is just beyondanything I could have ever
imagined in my wildest dreams.
And while there's still a longway to go to get the place set
(02:02):
up and ready for all the planswe have in store for it, it is
already blowing my mind.
So if this is your first timetuning in, couple quick
housekeeping notes.
Number one welcome.
So glad you're here.
The Bop stands for the businessof photography.
It's a podcast designed toanchor you in a sense of purpose
(02:22):
behind your work, to inspireyou with a sense of wonder for
all that could be in yourbusiness and then activate you
inside your business with reallypractical, tangible steps to
move the ball forward in yourbusiness right now.
And then, number two if we'renot yet following each other on
social media, be sure to give usa follow on Instagram at
(02:42):
square8studio square.
Like the shape eight is thenumber studio, just one singular
, not plural, square8studio.
And give us a follow on oursquare8studio YouTube channel as
well, where we feature evenmore education, including
something brand new that y'allare actually the first to hear
that we're gonna be doing.
It's gonna be kicking off realsoon.
We're gonna start posting videohighlights from each episode of
(03:04):
this podcast.
Now we start out each episode ofthe Bop with a Bop bite.
Bop bites are these little bitesized nuggets of goodness that,
if all you have is a fewminutes in your car on the way
to school or work, you can tunein and take away a little nugget
for your day and then come backand listen to the rest of the
episode later.
Today's Bop bite goes hand inhand with the theme of today's
(03:27):
episode.
If winning at work means losingat love, it's time to start
choosing to change.
If winning at work means losingat love, it's time to start
choosing to change.
So often in entrepreneurialcircles, our conversations focus
on strategies to grow aprofitable business and y'all.
(03:49):
These are great conversations.
They are needed conversations.
But let me ask you, what goodis a profitable business if it
costs you your marriage?
What good are thousands offollowers on social media if
your kids don't want to followin your footsteps as a parent?
And for all my single peoplelistening just like me, what
(04:11):
good are all those six figureyears you're stockpiling and
logging all the late nights andearly mornings for if you never
get to take time and get outthere and meet someone to share
your life with?
If I'm being honest, sometimesit's easier for me to stick to
business cause I know how to winat that than it is to get down
into the messiness ofrelationships where I know I'm
more likely to fail.
(04:32):
Can anyone else relate to thatman?
This is where I wish we had alive audience to engage with
cause.
Surely I'm not the only onethat's ever felt that way.
So here's what I want you to doTake a moment today and take
stock of your relationships,just like you track your profits
and your losses in yourbusiness.
Take time to evaluate thepeople in your life, which
(04:54):
relationships are growing andthriving, which need nurturing,
need a little more attention.
Where is their distance thatstarted to develop in certain
relationships that maybeforgiveness and humility can
begin to restore?
Because y'all, you can pursueall the money in the world in
your business, but at the end ofthe day, if winning at work
means losing at love, maybe,just maybe, it's time to start
(05:19):
choosing to change.
One of the things I love mostabout hosting the show is the
wide variety of backgrounds andperspectives our guests offer.
Some people have values andbeliefs that are fully in line
with my own.
Others are vastly different,but the common thread that
brings all of us together ineach episode is the shared
desire to love and serve peoplewith everything we've got, and
(05:42):
with that in mind, I want togive you a quick heads up on
today's episode.
Today's guests are dynamic,joyful, loving, raw, honest,
messy, real people, and theinsights they offer will be
widely applicable andtransformational.
They also happen to be pastors.
Now, I know we have listenerswho may not share that same
(06:02):
worldview, and so I just want togive you a quick heads up at
the top of the episode that thisis coming, so it doesn't catch
anyone by surprise, but foreveryone who tunes in, I believe
you are in for a huge dose ofencouragement today, courtesy of
two people with tremendouscharacter, who have made
mistakes, gotten things wrong,wrestled with insecurities and
doubted whether they had what ittakes.
(06:23):
People who have worked throughchallenges and walked through
valleys and come out on theother side of these things
stronger as leaders of theirorganization, seeing tremendous
wins in their workplace, butalso as husband and wife with a
thriving, loving marriage builton the hard work they've put in
over the years to live out thevery principles and strategies
(06:43):
that they're gonna be sharingwith us during this episode.
I can't wait for you to haveyour world rocked by my friends
Earl and Onika McClellan rightafter the break.
Look, I get it.
You're a natural lightphotographer.
You don't like your flash.
You don't wanna shoot with itby choice, but you do need to
know how to shoot with yourflash.
If you shoot weddings orin-home sessions, it's just kind
(07:06):
of one of those things yougotta know.
Wouldn't it be nice if youcould learn flash without all
the fancy language, withoutneeding to be a rocket scientist
?
Join me, rob Green, for a threeone hour flash class where I'll
give you three secrets toeasily unlock your flash's
potential, and, I promise.
No PhD required To sign up forthis free class.
Visit us online atsquare8studiocom slash flash
(07:30):
class and you can become friendswith your flash today.
Welcome back On today's episode.
We're talking about winning atwork without losing at love.
How to run a successfulbusiness while maintaining
healthy relationships.
This is gonna be good y'all.
For those of you who've beentuning into the Bop for a while,
you already know I'm a bigbeliever that it's always a good
(07:52):
idea to decide who you're goingto be before you decide what
you're going to do.
So we love introducing ourguests not by what they've
accomplished, but by who theyare as people, and every guest
we have on the show is a specialguest to me.
But today's guests are near anddear to my heart because I get
to sit under their leadershipand serve alongside them each
week at our church here inDallas.
(08:14):
And y'all, earl McClellan iseasily one of the most hilarious
communicators I know.
But let me tell you what reallystands out about him.
The first time I ran into Earlin the hallway at a men's event,
he stopped and asked me my name.
The second time I ran into him,he called me by my name and
y'all I don't know if you'vebeen around a lot of larger
organizations but in a churchwith thousands of people
(08:35):
attending weekly.
That told me so much about thisman's heart, because in my
experience, great leaders havethis remarkable ability to lead
the masses while never losingsight of the one that is Earl.
At his core, he's a dynamic,visionary leader with an
unrivaled instinct for helping amassive and diverse audience
all feel welcome, seen andconnected everywhere he goes.
(08:58):
Then I met his wife, onika, andI immediately understood why
he's always referring to her ashis better two thirds, because
this woman is a powerhouse y'all.
She's passionate, driven, hasan insane eye for detail and
design and absolutely radiatesjoy and love.
She's the kind of person who,when she walks in a room, you
wouldn't be surprised to seeflowers just kind of blooming up
(09:21):
after every step she takes,because everywhere she goes,
beauty springs forth.
She's constantly speaking lifeand value and potential into the
hearts of others and togetherwith her husband, these two are
leading not only a fantasticorganization but a fantastic
home and family, as well asparents to three beautiful kids
Parker, grayson and Elle.
So it is my honor to welcome tothe bop my pastors, earl and
(09:45):
Onika McClelland.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
How are you friends, we appreciate you and we're-.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You're making me cry with that intro.
Oh my God, it was so lifegiving.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It's very true everything he said about you,
honey, everything he said aboutyou I've seen the flowers too,
just so you know.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
They're all in our house.
That's why you're wearing theflower card here.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Literally there were no flowers on this card.
Again, Onika touched it,flowers came out.
Stop it, stop it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Thanks for having us.
We're honored to be here.
Oh my goodness, yes, so honored.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
And we're thankful for you.
You're such a gift to our life.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And a visionary.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, to this church family and then definitely to
all the listeners and so manyother entrepreneurs and
photographers out there.
Thank you for being who you are.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And one thing that I wanna say about your gift that I
appreciate is your ability tocapture the spirit of a person.
I feel like every photo youtake of someone that I know or
someone that I don't know, youcapture their spirit and who
they are.
Not only does it the end resultlooks stunning, but you capture
something that's on the insideof that person, unmatched.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's beautiful, Wow .
Thank you, man.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Well, y'all gotta know, when I have husband and
wife duos come on the show, Idon't wanna just be the one
introducing you myself and thenwe're done, cause I know no one
knows the two of you better thaneach other.
So I'd love to just let y'alltake a moment and introduce your
spouse.
What do you love most aboutyour spouse as a person?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I'm going first.
I'm going first for sure.
No way, honey, honey, honey.
Literally I need to.
It was my birthday week anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Ladies first.
Ladies first got you.
It was my birthday week.
Ladies first, come on honey.
Come on honey, I will start.
No, you can start.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You can start, cause I'ma one up you.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I've known Earl McClellan since he was 18 years
old and now he's like a grownman with three kids, and the
thing that stood out to me whenhe was 18 years old was his
humility, his love for peopleand his love for Jesus.
And I was blown away that evenin college, all of our
professors, all the students,admired him, looked up to him.
He had crazy favor, but henever put it on himself.
(11:45):
He always shared that favorwith other people and it never
went to his head.
And you're the same persontoday that he was when he was 18
, except for better.
So that's one of my favoritethings about him.
Also, he's the same person infront of people that he has
behind the scenes.
If we're on an airplane, he'shelping someone with their
luggage.
He's just like that person.
He's so welcoming, so kind,reminds me that there's no
(12:08):
ceiling or limit on my life.
Same thing with our kids, samethings with our church.
He's just a good man andliterally my very best friend,
and I feel like he could do TEDTalks on how to be a good
husband, how to be a good dad,how to lead like an amazing
organization, with purity andfighting for other people.
My favorite thing about him ishe fights for other people.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Well, you're kind to say all of that, honey.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The gospel truth.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Now is my turn.
Let's get this party started.
There is no one.
I tell Onika this, and again,we're pastors and this might
sound crazy to anybody who wantto be Catholic out there, but if
Jesus had to be born today, Ithink the angel Gabriel would
show up to Onika and say hey,you daughter whom I love, you
(12:57):
will bring the savior of theworld into the earth.
You will raise God.
So that is the purity withwhich I see Onika living her
life.
There is Onika.
Literally there's nobody likeyou.
We say this when we talk, haveour pillow talk or I'm up in
front of a bunch of people.
(13:19):
There is no one that's a betterencourager than Onika.
She has an ability and it's notmanufactured.
So kind.
It oozes out of her this abilityto not only put courage into a
person but to pull courage outof a person, and so she has that
(13:42):
, which is amazing.
And then this ability tocommunicate so effectively.
But, truth be told and, rob, Itell people this all the time
they give me a lot of credit forstuff, but Onika is our secret
sauce here.
Without her on the team leadinghow she's leading, I don't feel
like our church and thisorganization would be what it
(14:03):
needs to be.
She brings in not just a heartpiece but such a strong
leadership piece that it reallyhas helped us, I think, maximize
the potential, at least forthis season, that we're supposed
to have, and I'm excited to seethe future.
So I'm glad we're together.
You're an amazing wife, amazingmother, amazing leader, and the
(14:25):
purity with which you live yourlife and the strength that you
have it's all inspiration to me.
So I love you.
If I'm a halfway decent person,rob, it is because I've been in
an incubator of encouragementfor 26 years that Onika and I
have been married.
She has poured life andstrength into me.
So I'm thankful for her,thankful for her example,
(14:46):
thankful that I get to live witha slice of heaven on earth, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Very kind Love you.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
The best.
I love that.
Now you said 26 years you guyshave been married.
Take us back, cause I know alot of our audience you're gonna
be new names and faces andstories to them.
So take us back 26 years.
How'd you guys meet?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We, you and we got married again.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well, she wanted my body from the moment she saw me.
So that's, let's take it backto that.
I am a man of the Lord tryingto honor and here she is.
I mean, and every guy you onthis podcast, you know what I'm
talking about, you know when yougot it, you got it.
And no, we met in college and Iwas on my way to basketball
(15:30):
practice and she was comingtowards me and I still remember
the day.
I still remember seeing her forthe first time.
Our oldest son actually goes tothat college now too, which is
crazy.
So I got to bring him to thespot where I literally saw his
mother for the first time.
So crazy, and it's beautifuland amazing and literally I
(15:51):
don't know how this is possible.
They say black, don't crack.
So I don't know how this ispossible, but Onika looks the
same as college.
I don't know how, but she looksthe same there.
I even say better.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
You're so kind.
It's the truth, honey, butthat's how we met.
We met in school and we had thesame group of friends,
coincidentally, and theyintroduced us to each other and
said you guys have to know eachother.
And that's how our journeystarted.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
She strategically got in that friend group.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I inserted myself into his friend group.
I did not, I did not.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Hey, but she did like me first.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I did like him first.
I did, I did like him first.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And last, exactly, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But yeah, we met in college, college sweethearts.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Brilliant.
Now you guys like you mentioned, y'all are sharing in this
leadership journey together.
What's the best thing aboutthat?
What is it like for you guys toget to do this together?
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I would say we get to leverage our gifts and combine
our gifts and combine our vision, combine our talents.
You know, we get to collaborateall the time and I feel like we
make each other better and wemake leading better, because
it's both of us our hearts, ourpassions, our strengths and so I
think it's beautiful to be in ameeting together and Earl is
(17:08):
like the vision caster.
He will have like an end goalin mind and then I get the honor
of helping that end goal cometo pass and I like to interview
him, ask him questions and thenhelp execute that and then add
whatever that I can to make iteven better and to enhance it,
and so I feel like we're a goodteam.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, or a good team oh, nick has given this language
before, which I really like.
That architect and then thegeneral contractor Right, you
know, and you got to havesomebody that can take this,
this drawing, and actually bringit to life.
And Onika can really bring itto life, and she can be a great
architect herself too, don't getme wrong, but just like she
(17:50):
said, us operating in thosegifts and I got a little GC in
me too, but I think for a lot ofwhat we do here at the church,
it just works beautifully, youknow, and it's I don't know,
it's the best thing.
It didn't start off that way,though.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, when we first started working together, we
definitely clashed and hedefinitely took my suggestions
personally.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And he thought that I didn't believe in him, but
really I was just trying to help.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And it was really my own insecurities at that point
in time.
So you have someone who'scapable, strong, competent, and
I don't know, maybe I wasintimidated.
I hope I wasn't intimidated,but I was.
I think I was just more in myown head and feeling like, do I
have what it takes?
Just like a person who'slistening to this?
Right, you start off a businessphotographers, you know we
(18:43):
talked about this, they're noteveryone lasts for 35 years,
right, you know?
So you can start it and feellike this thing's not getting
the traction I want it to get.
So do I have what it takes topush it beyond just year one and
get it to year 10?
So I think I had some of thosesame insecurities.
(19:05):
Do I have what it takes?
And Onika, of course, wasbringing life and encouragement.
She was just trying to help,not to push things forward, but
my own lack of confidence reallyreally tainted her suggestions.
So I had to wrestle with thatand kind of get right in my own
head and heart and remember that, oh man, god gave me these
(19:27):
gifts and he's the one thatcalled me, and I would say that,
even with every photographerthat's listening, it's not just
a gift that, like you have.
I think God gives these giftsbecause he wants pictures and
stories to be shared, and itgives you a gift, a talent and
an ability, and he wants thatthing to be expressed.
So it's not just, oh, I'm goodat this, it's like, oh no, I
(19:50):
actually think there's somethingbigger going on here and you're
a part of a greater story, andit's not just for you to share
your story, but to share an evengreater story.
That's been going on before weever got here and will be going
on long after we leave.
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Man, so good.
I mean, there's so manytakeaways for me in what you are
talking about.
Number one first thing thatcomes to mind is man, there's
probably a lot of photographerslistening that are getting fired
up about the thought of man.
Listen to how you guys interactand go together Like they're
going.
Man, I want my spouse jumpingin on that.
There's also probably somephotographers that are going.
Yeah, but my husband or my wifeis not a good photographer and
(20:27):
I love that.
You guys are looking at the wayyou lead and going.
We don't have to be good at thesame thing.
We can bring differentstrengths to the table and
sometimes those strengths cancompliment one another.
They don't have to overlap.
They can actually be moreeffective complimenting one
another.
And one person is operating intheir strengths over here,
another person's operating intheir strengths over here and
together you wind up creatingsomething that is better than
(20:49):
the sum of its parts.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I love that.
That's so, so good.
You're hitting the nail on thehead with that and what is
unique is if you are if you're aphotographer or you could be in
any industry whatsoever and youhave a spouse and your spouse
is for you and you are for yourspouse.
There is some power in thatunity and I don't know exactly
(21:15):
how all of this happens, butwhen you invite your spouse in
and give them permission tospeak into the thing that you
are doing and don't dumb themdown because they don't know the
intricacies and thetechnicalities of the industry,
but you just invite them in withhumility, you will find that
(21:37):
some of the best ideas will comefrom your spouse, because they
are the one that knows youbetter than anyone else.
And they'll say something likeI just had this thought and you
can go.
Well, that will never work whenyou're prideful, or, but if you
listen to that with humility,you go huh.
Here's another perspective.
I actually have been stucklooking at it from one angle,
(21:59):
but someone coming in who doesnot know the industry, they're
able to come in and see it froman entirely different angle.
They don't even know that thatcan't be done, but them saying
that gives me an idea aboutsomething that can be done that
I did not see.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yep, yes, and I hear it said so often that if you
wanna go faster, go alone, butif you wanna go farther, go
together.
And as you're talking aboutthat, I'm sitting there thinking
man for the photographer who'slistening right now and thinking
you know what.
There's too much work to bedone to bring on a spouse or
maybe it's even just bringing ona friend to come alongside you
(22:34):
in your business and help youout with what you're doing.
If you wanna go farther gotogether and let people speak
into the process, invite them in, because they're gonna see
things through a different lens.
I mean, I remember earlier thisyear there was I brought
somebody onto my team as avirtual assistant and there were
elements of my job that I justdid not enjoy.
(22:57):
One of them was like mappingout all of my availability on a
calendar.
It just sucked the life out ofme to have to go through and,
day by day, mark my availabilityfor sunrise, for sunset, when I
could do shoots.
I hire this VA team and thenext thing I know, within like
an hour, they're like okay, sowe've got all your stuff mapped
out for the next semester.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
What do?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
you want us to do next and I was like I don't know
, I didn't know that was gonnahappen so fast.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Let me think about that and get back to you.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
There's so much goodness that can come from
inviting someone else into theprocess.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, it's so, so good.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I love y'all's transparency and sharing all
that you're sharing here,because we have a lot of
listeners who run theirbusinesses with their spouse or
wanna run their business withtheir spouse.
You know husband wife phototeams are all the rage right now
.
So I'm curious I love to getreal practical when we have
these interviews what are two orthree practical tips you guys
(23:54):
have implemented in your ownmarriage to keep things healthy
and productive in your personallife as well as your work life?
Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I would say, something that we're constantly
working on is making sure wehear the person correctly,
because I think it's easy tojust like knock out a task or
get something done, but makingsure you capture the heart and
the goal of what your spouseactually has in mind.
Like this morning we weredriving in the car together and
there's a project that I knowthat's important to Earl and at
(24:25):
first I was more in executionmode of like let's just get this
done.
But I could tell and I read theroom in that moment, which I
think we have to read the roomwith our spouse or with our
business partners and after Iread the room or read the car I
could tell he didn't wanna justget it done, he wanted to
brainstorm.
And so I think, just steppingoutside of our to-do list and
our tasks and just reading theroom to see if that's what your
(24:48):
partner or your business spousethat they have, what shack they
have on in that moment, yeah, Ithink to put a little bow around
that it would be.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We seek to understand , not to be understood, and
that's a fight for sure to getthere.
Just internally, because youwanna get your point across, I
wanna feel like, oh, you gottasee it from my perspective and
if you saw it from myperspective you changed your
mind.
But to go, okay, I do have aperspective.
There is something I'mpassionate about here, but I'm
(25:18):
gonna try to understand and whenyou both are trying to do that
you're able to come to not allthe time, there's definitely
still times where we disagree,but it's just more often than
not you come to a place ofunderstanding and can at least
move forward.
So that's a really bigpractical one.
Another one for us, andeverybody's different.
(25:39):
We don't try to live a balancedlife per se.
We just feel like that wordbalance can just kind of create,
unintentionally, this scenariowhere it's like family against
business, against marriage,against friendships against
working out against, and we justwe mix it all together.
(26:03):
Yeah, it's just like this is ourlife.
And again, this might not workfor everybody, because some
other people are gonna be reallycompartmentalized and that
works for them and it's like, ohno, at five o'clock I turn my
phone over and I'm all done andI move on and I do this other
thing for two hours and we saythat is great, I think, do what
works for you, For us.
We see our life more, we thinkmore rhythm.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Holistically.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah than balance.
We think like, oh, do we needto lead into our kids right now?
You know what?
Let's make sure we turn thisoff.
Let's make sure tonight is anight that we're going to be
doing movies and popcorn ormaking pizza together.
Hey, we've been running prettyhard over the last few days.
Let's make sure, have we goneon a date night?
(26:47):
Man, we haven't.
Let's make sure we take sometime out to do that.
Hey, let's make sure we get thekids down to bed at the right
time this evening so we can havesome time afterwards to cuddle
Ho.
So let's make sure, you know,as a spouse, have we talked?
Have we shared what's going onin our days?
Now, practically we fight tohave dinner together.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, as a family.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
As a family each night.
We really really fight for that.
And then at that dinner tablewe share our highs.
We share one high, one low andone thing we're thankful for we
do that.
Everybody goes around the tableand shares that.
So we really really fight tomake that a priority in our
family.
So I think the rhythm versusbalance, I think trying to
(27:32):
understand instead of beunderstood.
And then just practically, youknow, we try to sit down
together as a family so that ourkids always know that they're a
priority, our marriage is apriority because the reality is,
and every business leader willknow this.
Somebody will cancel on you ina second, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Or cancel you.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, you can have a deposit, you can have all that
stuff and they're like I'm done,I can't do this or for whatever
reason, but you're gonna haveyour spouse, you're gonna have
your family.
That's gonna be who will bethere later.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And your friend, or your friend, or your friend.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So make sure you make a priority who will end up
being there with you for thelong haul?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Wow, this is so good.
There's so much goodness packedin here for all of our married
folks.
I know also, we got a lot ofsingle business owners out there
, and this is so funny to mebecause I had no idea that a few
days ago we were gonna betalking about relationships on a
Sunday morning and you had alot of great insights for both
married folks and single folks.
(28:36):
So I'm curious what about thesingle business owners out there
?
Because you know, I mean heck,I'm asking this for myself too,
because I know I'm guilty of it.
I think a lot of the singlepeople listening are wondering
how do I avoid getting so caughtup in the hustle of running a
business that I don't lose sightof having a life outside my
business?
and seeking some of theserelationships that I do wanna
(28:58):
have.
Ultimately, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I would say, asking the people that you trust in
your world how do I seem?
Do I seem good when you look atmy eyes or do I seem distant?
Do I seem agitated all the timeor do I see an ease?
And if I seem agitated all thetime, or distance, I'm giving
you permission to shake me alittle bit, to ask me when's the
last time I had a day off?
(29:20):
When's the last time I workedout?
When's the last time I prayedor asked for prayer?
When's the last time I checkedin with my counselor?
I would say, having thosepeople in your life that you can
say shake me if I seem like I'mdrifting, and even if sometimes
someone will shake you and sayyou're drifting but you're kind
of in a zone and you don't havetime to stop, but then at least
(29:40):
recognizing and acknowledgingthat person and saying check
back with me in a week and thenkeep running, but I think giving
people in your life permissionto tell you you seem off.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I think that is really good in the humility to
receive that which is hard.
It's hard to receive it becauseyou're like, oh well, you don't
understand my life, Well,you're married or you're single,
or your business not taken offlike mine.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You're grinding and you're jealous.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Anytime you get to a place where no one can tell you
anything, dangerous place.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We've interviewed successful people that have had
great demise and we wanna learnfrom their demise.
And that's the commondenominator they got to a place
cause they had so much favor andopen doors and success, an
opportunity.
And opportunities like left andright, and everybody like
wanted a piece of them.
They said their downfall wasthinking that no one could give
(30:34):
them advice and that no onecould relate to them.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Cause you don't understand me, you don't know
all that I'm going.
Oh man, the demands that are onme, they're just different than
the demands that are on you.
So that would be one thing,practically, you know, we're all
I think.
Another thing for single peopleand this would be for Maritube,
or for single people, and Rob,you do a great job of this.
This is so special.
You know you serve on thephotography team at the church.
(30:57):
Well, you do this for yourbusiness, right?
I mean, like you receive income, pay for this, and here you are
bringing it to the church forfree.
That's beautiful.
I think there is something togiving away, even the best of
(31:20):
what you have that replenishesyou.
And I know this might becounterintuitive for a lot of
people, but maybe the reasonsomeone is depleted, or the
reason they are not feeling asfull as they would want to feel,
it's not because they don'thave a full life, it's because
they're not giving anything fromtheir full life.
(31:40):
So, whether that's resources,time, energy, maybe you don't
have the money to give, but youknow what nonprofit has
something going on and theyserve and they help.
You know I don't know kids at aschool that don't have shoes,
or you know they help homelesspeople, you know, get dignity.
What can you do to go and say,hey, I want to volunteer my
(32:03):
expertise to bring hope and lifeto somebody else?
I don't understand exactly howthis works, but it seems again,
I'm a pastor, so I think Godwired us this way that when we
give out it actually providesmore space for us to be given
into.
And I have not met very manypeople that are like, oh yeah, I
(32:27):
gave this time I'm worse offfor it.
No, that can happen.
You know, people can takeadvantage of you and be jerks
and all that kind of stuff.
You know, I recognize that'sout there.
But let's not let the minorityof abuses out there stop us from
what I think is a beautifulhuman and biblical principle of
hey, give, and there's somethingabout it being given back to
(32:50):
you.
So that would be another thingI would really encourage our
single people to do.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Beautiful.
Well, and as you're saying,that, it's making me think.
You know it's so hard after yougraduate college to connect
with other people if you're notvery intentional about it.
And what better way, if you'rea single person that's looking
to meet somebody, get out thereand serve.
If all you're doing is focusingin on your business, your world
(33:17):
can kind of stay as big as youand your clients, and especially
if you're a weddingphotographer, all your clients
are already found.
They already found somebody.
So unless you're like gettingthe inside scoop on a bridesmaid
, or a groom's mess, you know.
But the reality is, if you'regetting out there and serving
and giving of yourself, and hey,if you don't wanna do
photography for free, find someother way to serve.
(33:37):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Life and joy.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
But taking advantage of those opportunities to serve
is also a great way practicallyjust to meet somebody that you
might not otherwise meet.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's so good, so good Rob.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Now I hear you guys both say regularly from the
stage on Sundays a couple ofthings.
Number one, you talk about howwe speak to mountains and number
two, that we see with eyes ofhope.
And I know these have very likechurch specific meanings.
But I'm curious because I feellike there's a broader context
(34:12):
that this carries tremendousvalue for as well for the
photography community, because Iknow in the photography
industry, one of the mostsobering statistics that we hear
about regularly is how the vastmajority of photographers and I
think it's something like 85%of them don't even make it to
the three year mark in theirbusiness before the dream dies.
Whoa, whoa, which is crazy.
(34:33):
So I'm curious for y'all, aspeople who live out this ethos
of we speak to mountains and wesee with eyes of hope what do
you think it looks like foraspiring entrepreneurs to speak
to mountains and see with eyesof hope in their businesses?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I love that you shared that statistic.
Believe it or not, this is truein church world too.
Most churches that get starteddon't last.
I didn't know that when westarted, so maybe that was good,
because we just were trying todo what we thought was in our
(35:10):
heart and, like we talked aboutearlier loving people, serving
people, pointing people toChrist.
But I say everything can failWithout a doubt, honestly.
Every marriage can fail, everybusiness opportunity can fail,
every relationship can fail,every car can break down.
(35:33):
Everything has the potential tofail.
Do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So good.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Go anyway.
Why are you going to live inthe Peruvial boat?
Get out of the boat, walk onthe water and if you begin to
sink, just pray.
There's some people around youthat can pull you up out of that
water and say, hey, at leastyou tried.
For us we would even saysomething like this I'd rather
(36:03):
be a water walking, sometimessinking disciple rather than a
disciple that never gets out ofthe boat.
And maybe some photographerscan take that on and say I'd
rather be a water walking,sometimes sinking photographer
rather than one that never getsout of the boat.
Try it, swing for the fences.
Not saying you shouldn't dowisdom and do market research
(36:25):
and cross your T's and dot yourI's and, depending on what your
bills are, you gotta be wiseabout stuff, don't get me wrong.
But at the same time, if youwanna do anything significant in
this life most times everythingdoes not line up perfectly
You're gonna have to take somestep of faith.
So for us, we speak tomountains.
(36:47):
There's a mountain of fear,there's a mountain of insecurity
, there's a mountain of doubt,there's a mountain of lack,
there's a mountain of fill inthe blank.
So what we're saying is we'respeaking to these mountains,
saying, hey, we believe that Godhas called us to move forward
here.
So either we're moving or thatmountain's moving, and we
(37:08):
believe that that mountain'sgonna have to move and just
begin to go forward.
We see with eyes of hope.
We know if it's not dead andnot done, then it's not final.
So we're like, keep on moving,keep on believing.
And if it gets to the pointwhere you go, you know what
cause I've had some friends andOnika, and I've had some friends
.
I've had to navigate even theclosing of a church, a dream.
(37:29):
Or the closing of a business orthe closing of a business and
you gotta say, hey, you didn'tfail, you were already a success
when you took the step.
Well done, well done.
So that's for whoever's outthere, if this can be some
motivation to keep on trying.
(37:51):
But then if you need themotivation, even the courage, to
go, you know what I'm gonnastop, cause that takes courage
too.
You gotta speak to the mountainof what will people think about
me.
You gotta speak to the mountainof I'm a failure.
You gotta speak to the mountainof my life does not matter,
because I'm not the leader NowI'm working for somebody else.
(38:13):
So you've gotta navigate thosethings too.
All of it requires courage, so,and humility.
So just be willing to take thatstep.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Wow, as you're talking about this, it's
reminded me I was just recentlyon this business retreat and we
were challenged by one of thepeople speaking to us that
weekend that it's so easy for usto see failure as the opposite
of success, and he really leanedinto us and he said what if
failure is success?
(38:44):
What if success is really theculmination of all the lessons
learned from the failures alongthe way, the lessons learned,
the character developed thatbrought us to this point of
understanding what it's gonnatake to make that next move, to
enter into that next stage wherethe success, as the world looks
(39:07):
at it, comes and it looks likethis natural thing that just
happened overnight, but reallyit's a byproduct of staying
faithful and staying down in thetrenches during these difficult
seasons where it doesn't feellike the momentum's happening,
it doesn't feel like things aregoing your way, and yet you
stayed the course.
You kept pushing through, youkept stepping out of the boat,
going.
I'm sinking right now, butwaiting for that moment to lift
(39:29):
back up.
And so, yeah, photographers, ifyou're listening and you're
hanging on, and you're justhanging on and struggling right
now, don't lose hope and don'tview your failure as the
opposite of success because,really, what you're doing is
obtaining incredible lessonslearned that are gonna propel
you forward towards whateverthat future success may be.
(39:49):
Yep, that's exactly right.
I'm also curious and I feellike y'all, as husband and wife,
can speak to this in a way thatI cannot.
I've had so many conversationswith photographers where it's
not even just that they don'tget to do their business with
their spouse no-transcript.
They feel like there's anabsence of support and
(40:10):
encouragement from their spouse.
They're off pursuing this dreamand they just feel kind of like
isolated and on their own.
And man, I, just as we'retalking, I'm going.
I think we'd miss a moment if Ididn't give you guys a chance
to speak to that person who'sfeeling alone in a business that
they would love to, even ifit's not a full on partnership,
just feel supported andencouraged by that spouse in
(40:32):
what they're pursuing on theirown.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Wow.
I would encourage that personto let their spouse know and to
say hey, I know that you're nota photographer.
I'm not asking you to be aphotographer, but I just miss
you.
Could you look at your calendar?
Could you look ahead at yourcalendar and could you just hang
with me on my next shoot?
Could you just like be therewith me and just be like my
extra set of hands, just so thatI can like spend time with you.
(40:57):
I know we haven't been able todo date nights, so I know we
haven't been able to go on thattrip that we wanted to go on,
but I know that just us spendingtime together is better than
nothing.
So it would mean the world ifyou even just had a clearer
picture of what I did, what awedding we can look like.
You might even have perspectiveon how I can be more efficient
when I'm at weddings or atevents or grand openings.
(41:18):
But I just would love to likeyou to even ask me questions
like how the wedding go, or howthe grand opening go, or how did
it go when you gave the familyback their family photos, and
just like ask me more questionsabout my craft.
Because when you ask mequestions, when you invest in me
, or when you even like offer tocome with me, it makes me feel
seen, and so I think like notwaiting for the person to have
(41:41):
the revelation, but bringing therevelation with humility and
with a benefit of the doubtspirit.
I think, when you have thebenefit of the doubt, spirit it
helps to fence this fall.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
That is so beautiful.
So what Onika just shared is sohealthy and so spot on, I think
, a really great practical I'llshare.
I think another angle of thisis for those who are feeling
like your spouse is not with youit can create in you a high
(42:11):
level of resentment, fear, anger, disappointment and all of
those emotions.
They're real emotions but, leftunchecked, will lead you down a
path of not only distance fromyour spouse but maybe even
(42:34):
divorce.
And I would say that is, in oursociety has become a viable
option.
And no shade or shame onanybody out there who has had to
navigate the pains of a divorce, but every person, every friend
of mine that's walked throughit.
They're not wishing that onanybody.
(42:56):
So understand that it's notjust, oh, my spouse and I are
having some difficulties.
I think you got to see the endgame here of some of these
emotions is to tear your familyapart and, if it doesn't end in
divorce, for you and your spousejust to be roommates, for you
(43:17):
to live in the same house butactually not have a deep
connection, and that is not whatyou signed up for, that's not
what your spouse signed up for.
So it goes beyond photography.
If your spouse is notsupporting the photography,
there's probably something elseunderlying that.
You guys got to get to, got towork on, got to navigate through
(43:39):
and don't feel any shame aboutthat.
Oh, nick and I we've married 26years.
We've had to navigate.
Got to talk to people, got tobe willing to invite other
people in.
It's a healthy thing to do.
Live with that type of humility.
You got to go see a therapist,go to a therapist.
You're going to go to a greatchurch and jump in a group you
know marriage group.
Do that.
You want to get a book and youguys start reading it together.
(43:59):
Do that, but invest in yourmarriage and then let's see if
the photography might be able tocome together even better,
because your marriage isactually stronger.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
And then I just would tag on real quick that make
sure your family is notsuffering.
I think if your family's goingwithout and it's not agreed upon
, but it's like you don'tsupport my business and you
don't believe in me, but likeyour spouse can't- buy a new
pair of shoes or can't like gobuy tickets to go be with the
(44:34):
family for Thanksgiving.
I think not shaming the spousefor being discouraged that the
finances are tight, but beinglike, hey, I know that my next
photography opportunity isn'tuntil XYZ because of that, that
means we won't be able to buyplane tickets to go home.
Are you okay with that?
Or do you want me to get a sidehustle Because if we don't go
(44:56):
home then you're going to resentme?
I think those realconversations because they could
support you but they also couldstart to resent you if you're
putting pressure on them to keeplike starving.
So I think you have to kind ofput your head up out of the mud
and say like is my familysuffering for my dream?
And if we are going to sufferbecause we've suffered, together
(45:18):
, then suffer together, thensuffer together.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
We're both in agreement Like, hey, that's what
we're signing up for.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
We have suffered and have seasons of suffering, but
it's agreed upon suffering.
It's not one person flourishingwhile the other one's suffering
.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, I'll say this too, and maybe we're going to-.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It doesn't mean you're not supportive it just
means like we haven't been homein a year, and I'm trying to be
as supportive as I can, but yourdream is taking up our whole
life.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And now we don't have a life.
So what you just said rightthere, onika, which is so
beautiful, onika and I have wehaven't read it in a little bit
here but we have an agreementlist.
We wrote some things down thatwe were agreeing and actually
asking God to do in our lives.
Again, we're Jesus followershere.
(46:01):
But maybe somebody's like, ohman, I don't really.
You know, I don't reallybelieve in God.
I think it's the least good towrite down a list with your
spouse.
They'll be like hey, what is itwe want to see for our family?
What is it that could befinancial, emotional, spiritual,
mental?
Anyway, write those things down, because if you're in agreement
, it's amazing what you're ableto go through together.
(46:23):
But if you're not in agreement,like Onika's talking about here,
it just creates a lot oftension and a lot of friction
and you're kind of you'repulling two different ways,
which is die, vision, die too.
You have die vision, twovisions.
One's going one way, one'sgoing another way, and it's very
, very difficult to move forward.
So, even for single people,we're giving you gold too,
(46:44):
because now you can go.
Oh, let me, I'm ahead of thecurve now.
Let me kind of put some ofthese things in place in the
beginning, so that I don't haveto deal with some of the pain.
All of us are gonna have todeal with pain, but I have to
deal with some of the pain thatmaybe others have had to
navigate.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So good.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
I love what you said in there about how it's not just
what you're asking for fromyour spouse, but it's also what
you're offering in the process,that it's not just this hey,
here's how I'm feeling and it'sthis one way thing, but hey, I
wanna bring something to tableand go hey, is there something
in me that needs to besacrificed?
I don't wanna just ask you tosacrifice.
There's this two way street andwe're gonna come to agreement
(47:24):
and where there's agreement, wecan move forward together, cause
it sounds like what y'all arereally getting at is, oftentimes
, if there's a lack of businesssupport, it's not really a
business issue, it's arelationship issue at its core.
And if you address therelationship issue, the business
issue will naturally start towork itself out as a byproduct
of the relationship, growing andhealing and being healthy and
(47:47):
whole and aligned in futuredirection, which is so
fascinating because I was justreading this morning a stat
somewhere that said basicallythere's all these couples that
were researched like couplesthat got divorced, couples that
stayed together, and one of thedefining characteristics of
couples that stay together andhave happy, healthy marriages is
they dream together and thatalignment of vision was
(48:10):
propelling marriages to grow andstay healthy and stay strong
and stay together where othersare falling apart.
So I love what you guys aretalking about there with that
man y'all.
You guys have such incrediblereach, such incredible influence
, not just in our church but inthe community and around the
world.
I know there are peoplelistening to this right now who
(48:33):
are going.
Man, I never heard of these two,but I wanna stay in touch.
I wanna hear more.
I wanna hear more of what theseguys have to say.
Where can folks find you ifthey wanna stay in touch or take
this conversation with pastorsEarl and Onika a little further?
Speaker 3 (48:48):
P-O and P-E as we call them.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
How can they take the conversation further?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Oh, that's a good question.
Here's Onika's cell phonenumber.
She starts getting blown uphere.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
Right, right, right.
She's like that was not on theagreement list.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Right, right, right, right right, right, right right,
that's right.
Yeah, we're not passing out.
No, we give our phone numberout to a lot of people.
With that being said, you wannafind us?
We're not going anywhere.
Shoreline City Church obviouslygot YouTube.
We got Instagram.
You can totally find us there.
Onika McClellan's on Instagram.
Earl McClellan's on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Make sure it's the real one.
There's some fakes out there.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
There's some fakes out there trying to get money
from people, if you ever askedyou for money.
It's not me, it's not me, it'snot me.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
I think we got some We'll get all those dropped in
the show notes for sure.
And you guys have a podcast ofyour own as well is that correct
?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, we haven't shot anything fresh for it, but
there is some gold on there.
There is some gold on therefrom you for sure, which is the
name of the podcast is with somuch love.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
E&o podcast, so that's the name of the podcast.
It's everywhere podcasts aredistributed, so go ahead and you
can find it, and we have shareda lot on there.
We need to do more and we wantto do better at that, because I
don't we like talking aboutrelationships too.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yes, I love it.
Well, man.
Thank you guys, not just forcoming on the show and talking
about this with our photographycommunity, but I can attest to
these guys are living out thethings they're teaching on a
regular basis, and everybody Iknow I've been at this church
for a few years everybody I knowthat's walked with these guys
from day one says the same thingthat they are off the stage.
(50:28):
Who you are hearing here.
The things they are talkingabout are not just pie in the
sky, ideas for them, but realprinciples they are living out.
So I encourage you, jump in,check out the podcast, check out
the YouTube, check out thewebsite and give these guys a
follow.
I know we often close out ourservices on Sundays at Shoreline
with a prayer of blessing, so Iwas just curious.
(50:48):
This is not a normal thing.
You're on the bop, but wouldyou guys mind closing out this
episode with just a prayer ofblessing over this community?
of photographers who are tuningin around the country.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, and before we do that, we just want to say
thank you to you for being whoyou are, for being the type of
leader you are, even on here,your ability to hear, process
information and then rephrase it, repackage it.
It's a tremendous gift.
So thank you for being theleader you are, thank you for
being a part of this family,thank you for using your gifts
(51:19):
for the greater good.
All of that.
You are a fantastic human beingand we're honored to know you
and serve with you.
Honey, you want to pray Because, just so you know, I think
Jesus loves my wife more than me, so funny.
That's not accurately, that'snot biblical.
He loves us all the same.
But, honey, I think you prayingwould be great, unless you want
me to, because I know you'vebeen balancing the allergies.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
My allergies would be crazy.
I'll try, and then, if I startsneezing, then I'm gonna jump in
.
You take it over, we'll tagteam.
Don't rescue me if my allergiestake over.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
If the prayer ends and I chew instead of amen,
we'll know why.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Thanks, I love it.
Let me lift this up, father God, we thank you so much for every
amazing photographer that hashang out with us today.
We thank you for your hand upontheir life and we just speak a
prayer of blessing and favorover their business.
Thank you for crazy open doors,thank you for miracles, thank
you for connections that theycould have never dreamed of.
(52:12):
Thank you for enhancing theirgift.
Thank you for surrounding themwith other photographers who
will champion them, who willcoach them, who will partner
with them, who will speak lifein them.
Thank you for just breathing onevery single thing that their
hands touch.
Thank you for giving themwisdom on what things to say yes
to, what things to say no to.
We pray a blessing over everysingle photographer and creative
(52:33):
, in every person listening andwatching today, and we speak a
blessing in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Amen Amen.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
Thank you guys.
Wow, I was so looking forwardto this interview because I just
know, with those two Earlespecially you just never know
which way conversations will go,and y'all.
I loved their honesty.
I loved just how real they werein sharing just the heartfelt
struggles that they've faced andtheir challenges, while also
(53:04):
sharing the amazing lessons thatthey've learned and the things
that they've been able toimplement that any of us can
start implementing in our lives,our relationships and our
business, so that we can startwinning at work without losing
at love.
I hope this has been anencouragement for you.
I know I can't wait to go backthrough this episode and start
jotting down notes for myself.
(53:24):
I was sitting there as theywere saying some of these things
.
I was like, oh, I need to gotake note of that for me, Like
this is a good episode for metoo, and so I hope this has
blessed you, encouraged you, andI just got to let you know we
are just getting started withseason two.
We have an incredible seasonahead of us.
In fact, next month's episodefeatures a guest that I'm so
excited to introduce you to.
She's an incredible educator toeducators.
(53:47):
Her name is Laili Amadi andshe's gonna talk to us more
about what it looks like to liveand breathe in the education
space.
So if you've been wondering,hey, is that whole education
thing for me?
You're not gonna wanna missnext month's interview with
Laili Amadi.
That's it for today's episodeof the Bop.
Until next time, folks, keeplearning, keep loving and keep
(54:08):
chasing those dreams.
You were made for monkeys.
For us.
We see our life more, we thinkmore rhythm.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Holistically.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Yeah than balance.
We think like, oh, do we needto lead into our kids right now?
Let's make sure tonight is anight that we're going to be
doing movies and popcorn ormaking pizza together.
Hey, we've been running prettyhard over the last few days.
Let's make sure.
Have we gone on a date night?
Man, we haven't.
Let's make sure we take sometime out to do that.
(00:27):
Hey, let's make sure we get thekids down to bed at the right
time this evening so we can havesome time afterwards to cuddle.
Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You're listening to the Bop the business of
photography podcast with RobGreen, a photographer to
contagiously positive clientsand fierce believer in building
people focused businesses thatleave a lasting impact.
If you're an entrepreneur withdreams in your head, ideas in
your heart and passions burningdeep down in your soul, this is
the perfect place to be, becausethis is where dreams come to
(01:07):
thrive.
So are you ready to build yourbusiness, wow your clients and
make photo magic?
Here's your host, Rob Green.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Aw, coming at you from DFW Texas, you are
listening to the Bop.
So great to be here with youtoday for the very first episode
from the new home andheadquarters for Square 8 Studio
.
If you missed the season twopremiere, first of all, you
should totally go back and checkit out because my friends Erica
and John brought so much valueand encouragement to that first
(01:41):
episode.
But also you kind of missed abig life update for me.
After 10 years in Fort Worth,texas, I have relocated.
I am now a little more centralto the DFW Metroplex in a home
that y'all is just beyondanything I could have ever
imagined in my wildest dreams.
And while there's still a longway to go to get the place set
(02:02):
up and ready for all the planswe have in store for it, it is
already blowing my mind.
So if this is your first timetuning in, couple quick
housekeeping notes.
Number one welcome.
So glad you're here.
The Bop stands for the businessof photography.
It's a podcast designed toanchor you in a sense of purpose
(02:22):
behind your work, to inspireyou with a sense of wonder for
all that could be in yourbusiness and then activate you
inside your business with reallypractical, tangible steps to
move the ball forward in yourbusiness right now.
And then, number two if we'renot yet following each other on
social media, be sure to give usa follow on Instagram at
(02:42):
square8studio square.
Like the shape eight is thenumber studio, just one singular
, not plural, square8studio.
And give us a follow on oursquare8studio YouTube channel as
well, where we feature evenmore education, including
something brand new that y'allare actually the first to hear
that we're gonna be doing.
It's gonna be kicking off realsoon.
We're gonna start posting videohighlights from each episode of
(03:04):
this podcast.
Now we start out each episode ofthe Bop with a Bop bite.
Bop bites are these little bitesized nuggets of goodness that,
if all you have is a fewminutes in your car on the way
to school or work, you can tunein and take away a little nugget
for your day and then come backand listen to the rest of the
episode later.
Today's Bop bite goes hand inhand with the theme of today's
(03:27):
episode.
If winning at work means losingat love, it's time to start
choosing to change.
If winning at work means losingat love, it's time to start
choosing to change.
So often in entrepreneurialcircles, our conversations focus
on strategies to grow aprofitable business and y'all.
(03:49):
These are great conversations.
They are needed conversations.
But let me ask you, what goodis a profitable business if it
costs you your marriage?
What good are thousands offollowers on social media if
your kids don't want to followin your footsteps as a parent?
And for all my single peoplelistening just like me, what
(04:11):
good are all those six figureyears you're stockpiling and
logging all the late nights andearly mornings for if you never
get to take time and get outthere and meet someone to share
your life with?
If I'm being honest, sometimesit's easier for me to stick to
business cause I know how to winat that than it is to get down
into the messiness ofrelationships where I know I'm
more likely to fail.
(04:32):
Can anyone else relate to thatman?
This is where I wish we had alive audience to engage with
cause.
Surely I'm not the only onethat's ever felt that way.
So here's what I want you to doTake a moment today and take
stock of your relationships,just like you track your profits
and your losses in yourbusiness.
Take time to evaluate thepeople in your life, which
(04:54):
relationships are growing andthriving, which need nurturing,
need a little more attention.
Where is their distance thatstarted to develop in certain
relationships that maybeforgiveness and humility can
begin to restore?
Because y'all, you can pursueall the money in the world in
your business, but at the end ofthe day, if winning at work
means losing at love, maybe,just maybe, it's time to start
(05:19):
choosing to change.
One of the things I love mostabout hosting the show is the
wide variety of backgrounds andperspectives our guests offer.
Some people have values andbeliefs that are fully in line
with my own.
Others are vastly different,but the common thread that
brings all of us together ineach episode is the shared
desire to love and serve peoplewith everything we've got, and
(05:42):
with that in mind, I want togive you a quick heads up on
today's episode.
Today's guests are dynamic,joyful, loving, raw, honest,
messy, real people, and theinsights they offer will be
widely applicable andtransformational.
They also happen to be pastors.
Now, I know we have listenerswho may not share that same
(06:02):
worldview, and so I just want togive you a quick heads up at
the top of the episode that thisis coming, so it doesn't catch
anyone by surprise, but foreveryone who tunes in, I believe
you are in for a huge dose ofencouragement today, courtesy of
two people with tremendouscharacter, who have made
mistakes, gotten things wrong,wrestled with insecurities and
doubted whether they had what ittakes.
(06:23):
People who have worked throughchallenges and walked through
valleys and come out on theother side of these things
stronger as leaders of theirorganization, seeing tremendous
wins in their workplace, butalso as husband and wife with a
thriving, loving marriage builton the hard work they've put in
over the years to live out thevery principles and strategies
(06:43):
that they're gonna be sharingwith us during this episode.
I can't wait for you to haveyour world rocked by my friends
Earl and Onika McClellan rightafter the break.
Look, I get it.
You're a natural lightphotographer.
You don't like your flash.
You don't wanna shoot with itby choice, but you do need to
know how to shoot with yourflash.
If you shoot weddings orin-home sessions, it's just kind
(07:06):
of one of those things yougotta know.
Wouldn't it be nice if youcould learn flash without all
the fancy language, withoutneeding to be a rocket scientist
?
Join me, rob Green, for a threeone hour flash class where I'll
give you three secrets toeasily unlock your flash's
potential, and, I promise.
No PhD required To sign up forthis free class.
Visit us online atsquare8studiocom slash flash
(07:30):
class and you can become friendswith your flash today.
Welcome back On today's episode.
We're talking about winning atwork without losing at love.
How to run a successfulbusiness while maintaining
healthy relationships.
This is gonna be good y'all.
For those of you who've beentuning into the Bop for a while,
you already know I'm a bigbeliever that it's always a good
(07:52):
idea to decide who you're goingto be before you decide what
you're going to do.
So we love introducing ourguests not by what they've
accomplished, but by who theyare as people, and every guest
we have on the show is a specialguest to me.
But today's guests are near anddear to my heart because I get
to sit under their leadershipand serve alongside them each
week at our church here inDallas.
(08:14):
And y'all, earl McClellan iseasily one of the most hilarious
communicators I know.
But let me tell you what reallystands out about him.
The first time I ran into Earlin the hallway at a men's event,
he stopped and asked me my name.
The second time I ran into him,he called me by my name and
y'all I don't know if you'vebeen around a lot of larger
organizations but in a churchwith thousands of people
(08:35):
attending weekly.
That told me so much about thisman's heart, because in my
experience, great leaders havethis remarkable ability to lead
the masses while never losingsight of the one that is Earl.
At his core, he's a dynamic,visionary leader with an
unrivaled instinct for helping amassive and diverse audience
all feel welcome, seen andconnected everywhere he goes.
(08:58):
Then I met his wife, onika, andI immediately understood why
he's always referring to her ashis better two thirds, because
this woman is a powerhouse y'all.
She's passionate, driven, hasan insane eye for detail and
design and absolutely radiatesjoy and love.
She's the kind of person who,when she walks in a room, you
wouldn't be surprised to seeflowers just kind of blooming up
(09:21):
after every step she takes,because everywhere she goes,
beauty springs forth.
She's constantly speaking lifeand value and potential into the
hearts of others and togetherwith her husband, these two are
leading not only a fantasticorganization but a fantastic
home and family, as well asparents to three beautiful kids
Parker, grayson and Elle.
So it is my honor to welcome tothe bop my pastors, earl and
(09:45):
Onika McClelland.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
How are you friends, we appreciate you and we're-.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You're making me cry with that intro.
Oh my God, it was so lifegiving.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It's very true everything he said about you,
honey, everything he said aboutyou I've seen the flowers too,
just so you know.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
They're all in our house.
That's why you're wearing theflower card here.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Literally there were no flowers on this card.
Again, Onika touched it,flowers came out.
Stop it, stop it.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Thanks for having us.
We're honored to be here.
Oh my goodness, yes, so honored.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
And we're thankful for you.
You're such a gift to our life.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And a visionary.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, to this church family and then definitely to
all the listeners and so manyother entrepreneurs and
photographers out there.
Thank you for being who you are.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And one thing that I wanna say about your gift that I
appreciate is your ability tocapture the spirit of a person.
I feel like every photo youtake of someone that I know or
someone that I don't know, youcapture their spirit and who
they are.
Not only does it the end resultlooks stunning, but you capture
something that's on the insideof that person, unmatched.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's beautiful, Wow .
Thank you, man.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Well, y'all gotta know, when I have husband and
wife duos come on the show, Idon't wanna just be the one
introducing you myself and thenwe're done, cause I know no one
knows the two of you better thaneach other.
So I'd love to just let y'alltake a moment and introduce your
spouse.
What do you love most aboutyour spouse as a person?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I'm going first.
I'm going first for sure.
No way, honey, honey, honey.
Literally I need to.
It was my birthday week anyway.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Ladies first.
Ladies first got you.
It was my birthday week.
Ladies first, come on honey.
Come on honey, I will start.
No, you can start.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You can start, cause I'ma one up you.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I've known Earl McClellan since he was 18 years
old and now he's like a grownman with three kids, and the
thing that stood out to me whenhe was 18 years old was his
humility, his love for peopleand his love for Jesus.
And I was blown away that evenin college, all of our
professors, all the students,admired him, looked up to him.
He had crazy favor, but henever put it on himself.
(11:45):
He always shared that favorwith other people and it never
went to his head.
And you're the same persontoday that he was when he was 18
, except for better.
So that's one of my favoritethings about him.
Also, he's the same person infront of people that he has
behind the scenes.
If we're on an airplane, he'shelping someone with their
luggage.
He's just like that person.
He's so welcoming, so kind,reminds me that there's no
(12:08):
ceiling or limit on my life.
Same thing with our kids, samethings with our church.
He's just a good man andliterally my very best friend,
and I feel like he could do TEDTalks on how to be a good
husband, how to be a good dad,how to lead like an amazing
organization, with purity andfighting for other people.
My favorite thing about him ishe fights for other people.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Well, you're kind to say all of that, honey.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The gospel truth.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Now is my turn.
Let's get this party started.
There is no one.
I tell Onika this, and again,we're pastors and this might
sound crazy to anybody who wantto be Catholic out there, but if
Jesus had to be born today, Ithink the angel Gabriel would
show up to Onika and say hey,you daughter whom I love, you
(12:57):
will bring the savior of theworld into the earth.
You will raise God.
So that is the purity withwhich I see Onika living her
life.
There is Onika.
Literally there's nobody likeyou.
We say this when we talk, haveour pillow talk or I'm up in
front of a bunch of people.
(13:19):
There is no one that's a betterencourager than Onika.
She has an ability and it's notmanufactured.
So kind.
It oozes out of her this abilityto not only put courage into a
person but to pull courage outof a person, and so she has that
(13:42):
, which is amazing.
And then this ability tocommunicate so effectively.
But, truth be told and, rob, Itell people this all the time
they give me a lot of credit forstuff, but Onika is our secret
sauce here.
Without her on the team leadinghow she's leading, I don't feel
like our church and thisorganization would be what it
(14:03):
needs to be.
She brings in not just a heartpiece but such a strong
leadership piece that it reallyhas helped us, I think, maximize
the potential, at least forthis season, that we're supposed
to have, and I'm excited to seethe future.
So I'm glad we're together.
You're an amazing wife, amazingmother, amazing leader, and the
(14:25):
purity with which you live yourlife and the strength that you
have it's all inspiration to me.
So I love you.
If I'm a halfway decent person,rob, it is because I've been in
an incubator of encouragementfor 26 years that Onika and I
have been married.
She has poured life andstrength into me.
So I'm thankful for her,thankful for her example,
(14:46):
thankful that I get to live witha slice of heaven on earth, for
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Very kind Love you.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
The best.
I love that.
Now you said 26 years you guyshave been married.
Take us back, cause I know alot of our audience you're gonna
be new names and faces andstories to them.
So take us back 26 years.
How'd you guys meet?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We, you and we got married again.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well, she wanted my body from the moment she saw me.
So that's, let's take it backto that.
I am a man of the Lord tryingto honor and here she is.
I mean, and every guy you onthis podcast, you know what I'm
talking about, you know when yougot it, you got it.
And no, we met in college and Iwas on my way to basketball
(15:30):
practice and she was comingtowards me and I still remember
the day.
I still remember seeing her forthe first time.
Our oldest son actually goes tothat college now too, which is
crazy.
So I got to bring him to thespot where I literally saw his
mother for the first time.
So crazy, and it's beautifuland amazing and literally I
(15:51):
don't know how this is possible.
They say black, don't crack.
So I don't know how this ispossible, but Onika looks the
same as college.
I don't know how, but she looksthe same there.
I even say better.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
You're so kind.
It's the truth, honey, butthat's how we met.
We met in school and we had thesame group of friends,
coincidentally, and theyintroduced us to each other and
said you guys have to know eachother.
And that's how our journeystarted.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
She strategically got in that friend group.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I inserted myself into his friend group.
I did not, I did not.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Hey, but she did like me first.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I did like him first.
I did, I did like him first.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And last, exactly, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But yeah, we met in college, college sweethearts.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Brilliant.
Now you guys like you mentioned, y'all are sharing in this
leadership journey together.
What's the best thing aboutthat?
What is it like for you guys toget to do this together?
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I would say we get to leverage our gifts and combine
our gifts and combine our vision, combine our talents.
You know, we get to collaborateall the time and I feel like we
make each other better and wemake leading better, because
it's both of us our hearts, ourpassions, our strengths and so I
think it's beautiful to be in ameeting together and Earl is
(17:08):
like the vision caster.
He will have like an end goalin mind and then I get the honor
of helping that end goal cometo pass and I like to interview
him, ask him questions and thenhelp execute that and then add
whatever that I can to make iteven better and to enhance it,
and so I feel like we're a goodteam.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, or a good team oh, nick has given this language
before, which I really like.
That architect and then thegeneral contractor Right, you
know, and you got to havesomebody that can take this,
this drawing, and actually bringit to life.
And Onika can really bring itto life, and she can be a great
architect herself too, don't getme wrong, but just like she
(17:50):
said, us operating in thosegifts and I got a little GC in
me too, but I think for a lot ofwhat we do here at the church,
it just works beautifully, youknow, and it's I don't know,
it's the best thing.
It didn't start off that way,though.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, when we first started working together, we
definitely clashed and hedefinitely took my suggestions
personally.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And he thought that I didn't believe in him, but
really I was just trying to help.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And it was really my own insecurities at that point
in time.
So you have someone who'scapable, strong, competent, and
I don't know, maybe I wasintimidated.
I hope I wasn't intimidated,but I was.
I think I was just more in myown head and feeling like, do I
have what it takes?
Just like a person who'slistening to this?
Right, you start off a businessphotographers, you know we
(18:43):
talked about this, they're noteveryone lasts for 35 years,
right, you know?
So you can start it and feellike this thing's not getting
the traction I want it to get.
So do I have what it takes topush it beyond just year one and
get it to year 10?
So I think I had some of thosesame insecurities.
(19:05):
Do I have what it takes?
And Onika, of course, wasbringing life and encouragement.
She was just trying to help,not to push things forward, but
my own lack of confidence reallyreally tainted her suggestions.
So I had to wrestle with thatand kind of get right in my own
head and heart and remember that, oh man, god gave me these
(19:27):
gifts and he's the one thatcalled me, and I would say that,
even with every photographerthat's listening, it's not just
a gift that, like you have.
I think God gives these giftsbecause he wants pictures and
stories to be shared, and itgives you a gift, a talent and
an ability, and he wants thatthing to be expressed.
So it's not just, oh, I'm goodat this, it's like, oh no, I
(19:50):
actually think there's somethingbigger going on here and you're
a part of a greater story, andit's not just for you to share
your story, but to share an evengreater story.
That's been going on before weever got here and will be going
on long after we leave.
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Man, so good.
I mean, there's so manytakeaways for me in what you are
talking about.
Number one first thing thatcomes to mind is man, there's
probably a lot of photographerslistening that are getting fired
up about the thought of man.
Listen to how you guys interactand go together Like they're
going.
Man, I want my spouse jumpingin on that.
There's also probably somephotographers that are going.
Yeah, but my husband or my wifeis not a good photographer and
(20:27):
I love that.
You guys are looking at the wayyou lead and going.
We don't have to be good at thesame thing.
We can bring differentstrengths to the table and
sometimes those strengths cancompliment one another.
They don't have to overlap.
They can actually be moreeffective complimenting one
another.
And one person is operating intheir strengths over here,
another person's operating intheir strengths over here and
together you wind up creatingsomething that is better than
(20:49):
the sum of its parts.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I love that.
That's so, so good.
You're hitting the nail on thehead with that and what is
unique is if you are if you're aphotographer or you could be in
any industry whatsoever and youhave a spouse and your spouse
is for you and you are for yourspouse.
There is some power in thatunity and I don't know exactly
(21:15):
how all of this happens, butwhen you invite your spouse in
and give them permission tospeak into the thing that you
are doing and don't dumb themdown because they don't know the
intricacies and thetechnicalities of the industry,
but you just invite them in withhumility, you will find that
(21:37):
some of the best ideas will comefrom your spouse, because they
are the one that knows youbetter than anyone else.
And they'll say something likeI just had this thought and you
can go.
Well, that will never work whenyou're prideful, or, but if you
listen to that with humility,you go huh.
Here's another perspective.
I actually have been stucklooking at it from one angle,
(21:59):
but someone coming in who doesnot know the industry, they're
able to come in and see it froman entirely different angle.
They don't even know that thatcan't be done, but them saying
that gives me an idea aboutsomething that can be done that
I did not see.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yep, yes, and I hear it said so often that if you
wanna go faster, go alone, butif you wanna go farther, go
together.
And as you're talking aboutthat, I'm sitting there thinking
man for the photographer who'slistening right now and thinking
you know what.
There's too much work to bedone to bring on a spouse or
maybe it's even just bringing ona friend to come alongside you
(22:34):
in your business and help youout with what you're doing.
If you wanna go farther gotogether and let people speak
into the process, invite them in, because they're gonna see
things through a different lens.
I mean, I remember earlier thisyear there was I brought
somebody onto my team as avirtual assistant and there were
elements of my job that I justdid not enjoy.
(22:57):
One of them was like mappingout all of my availability on a
calendar.
It just sucked the life out ofme to have to go through and,
day by day, mark my availabilityfor sunrise, for sunset, when I
could do shoots.
I hire this VA team and thenext thing I know, within like
an hour, they're like okay, sowe've got all your stuff mapped
out for the next semester.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
What do?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
you want us to do next and I was like I don't know
, I didn't know that was gonnahappen so fast.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Let me think about that and get back to you.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
There's so much goodness that can come from
inviting someone else into theprocess.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, it's so, so good.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I love y'all's transparency and sharing all
that you're sharing here,because we have a lot of
listeners who run theirbusinesses with their spouse or
wanna run their business withtheir spouse.
You know husband wife phototeams are all the rage right now
.
So I'm curious I love to getreal practical when we have
these interviews what are two orthree practical tips you guys
(23:54):
have implemented in your ownmarriage to keep things healthy
and productive in your personallife as well as your work life?
Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I would say, something that we're constantly
working on is making sure wehear the person correctly,
because I think it's easy tojust like knock out a task or
get something done, but makingsure you capture the heart and
the goal of what your spouseactually has in mind.
Like this morning we weredriving in the car together and
there's a project that I knowthat's important to Earl and at
(24:25):
first I was more in executionmode of like let's just get this
done.
But I could tell and I read theroom in that moment, which I
think we have to read the roomwith our spouse or with our
business partners and after Iread the room or read the car I
could tell he didn't wanna justget it done, he wanted to
brainstorm.
And so I think, just steppingoutside of our to-do list and
our tasks and just reading theroom to see if that's what your
(24:48):
partner or your business spousethat they have, what shack they
have on in that moment, yeah, Ithink to put a little bow around
that it would be.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We seek to understand , not to be understood, and
that's a fight for sure to getthere.
Just internally, because youwanna get your point across, I
wanna feel like, oh, you gottasee it from my perspective and
if you saw it from myperspective you changed your
mind.
But to go, okay, I do have aperspective.
There is something I'mpassionate about here, but I'm
(25:18):
gonna try to understand and whenyou both are trying to do that
you're able to come to not allthe time, there's definitely
still times where we disagree,but it's just more often than
not you come to a place ofunderstanding and can at least
move forward.
So that's a really bigpractical one.
Another one for us, andeverybody's different.
(25:39):
We don't try to live a balancedlife per se.
We just feel like that wordbalance can just kind of create,
unintentionally, this scenariowhere it's like family against
business, against marriage,against friendships against
working out against, and we justwe mix it all together.
(26:03):
Yeah, it's just like this is ourlife.
And again, this might not workfor everybody, because some
other people are gonna be reallycompartmentalized and that
works for them and it's like, ohno, at five o'clock I turn my
phone over and I'm all done andI move on and I do this other
thing for two hours and we saythat is great, I think, do what
works for you, For us.
We see our life more, we thinkmore rhythm.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Holistically.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah than balance.
We think like, oh, do we needto lead into our kids right now?
You know what?
Let's make sure we turn thisoff.
Let's make sure tonight is anight that we're going to be
doing movies and popcorn ormaking pizza together.
Hey, we've been running prettyhard over the last few days.
Let's make sure, have we goneon a date night?
(26:47):
Man, we haven't.
Let's make sure we take sometime out to do that.
Hey, let's make sure we get thekids down to bed at the right
time this evening so we can havesome time afterwards to cuddle
Ho.
So let's make sure, you know,as a spouse, have we talked?
Have we shared what's going onin our days?
Now, practically we fight tohave dinner together.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, as a family.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
As a family each night.
We really really fight for that.
And then at that dinner tablewe share our highs.
We share one high, one low andone thing we're thankful for we
do that.
Everybody goes around the tableand shares that.
So we really really fight tomake that a priority in our
family.
So I think the rhythm versusbalance, I think trying to
(27:32):
understand instead of beunderstood.
And then just practically, youknow, we try to sit down
together as a family so that ourkids always know that they're a
priority, our marriage is apriority because the reality is,
and every business leader willknow this.
Somebody will cancel on you ina second, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Or cancel you.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, you can have a deposit, you can have all that
stuff and they're like I'm done,I can't do this or for whatever
reason, but you're gonna haveyour spouse, you're gonna have
your family.
That's gonna be who will bethere later.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And your friend, or your friend, or your friend.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So make sure you make a priority who will end up
being there with you for thelong haul?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Wow, this is so good.
There's so much goodness packedin here for all of our married
folks.
I know also, we got a lot ofsingle business owners out there
, and this is so funny to mebecause I had no idea that a few
days ago we were gonna betalking about relationships on a
Sunday morning and you had alot of great insights for both
married folks and single folks.
(28:36):
So I'm curious what about thesingle business owners out there
?
Because you know, I mean heck,I'm asking this for myself too,
because I know I'm guilty of it.
I think a lot of the singlepeople listening are wondering
how do I avoid getting so caughtup in the hustle of running a
business that I don't lose sightof having a life outside my
business?
and seeking some of theserelationships that I do wanna
(28:58):
have.
Ultimately, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I would say, asking the people that you trust in
your world how do I seem?
Do I seem good when you look atmy eyes or do I seem distant?
Do I seem agitated all the timeor do I see an ease?
And if I seem agitated all thetime, or distance, I'm giving
you permission to shake me alittle bit, to ask me when's the
last time I had a day off?
(29:20):
When's the last time I workedout?
When's the last time I prayedor asked for prayer?
When's the last time I checkedin with my counselor?
I would say, having thosepeople in your life that you can
say shake me if I seem like I'mdrifting, and even if sometimes
someone will shake you and sayyou're drifting but you're kind
of in a zone and you don't havetime to stop, but then at least
(29:40):
recognizing and acknowledgingthat person and saying check
back with me in a week and thenkeep running, but I think giving
people in your life permissionto tell you you seem off.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I think that is really good in the humility to
receive that which is hard.
It's hard to receive it becauseyou're like, oh well, you don't
understand my life, Well,you're married or you're single,
or your business not taken offlike mine.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You're grinding and you're jealous.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Anytime you get to a place where no one can tell you
anything, dangerous place.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We've interviewed successful people that have had
great demise and we wanna learnfrom their demise.
And that's the commondenominator they got to a place
cause they had so much favor andopen doors and success, an
opportunity.
And opportunities like left andright, and everybody like
wanted a piece of them.
They said their downfall wasthinking that no one could give
(30:34):
them advice and that no onecould relate to them.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Cause you don't understand me, you don't know
all that I'm going.
Oh man, the demands that are onme, they're just different than
the demands that are on you.
So that would be one thing,practically, you know, we're all
I think.
Another thing for single peopleand this would be for Maritube,
or for single people, and Rob,you do a great job of this.
This is so special.
You know you serve on thephotography team at the church.
(30:57):
Well, you do this for yourbusiness, right?
I mean, like you receive income, pay for this, and here you are
bringing it to the church forfree.
That's beautiful.
I think there is something togiving away, even the best of
(31:20):
what you have that replenishesyou.
And I know this might becounterintuitive for a lot of
people, but maybe the reasonsomeone is depleted, or the
reason they are not feeling asfull as they would want to feel,
it's not because they don'thave a full life, it's because
they're not giving anything fromtheir full life.
(31:40):
So, whether that's resources,time, energy, maybe you don't
have the money to give, but youknow what nonprofit has
something going on and theyserve and they help.
You know I don't know kids at aschool that don't have shoes,
or you know they help homelesspeople, you know, get dignity.
What can you do to go and say,hey, I want to volunteer my
(32:03):
expertise to bring hope and lifeto somebody else?
I don't understand exactly howthis works, but it seems again,
I'm a pastor, so I think Godwired us this way that when we
give out it actually providesmore space for us to be given
into.
And I have not met very manypeople that are like, oh yeah, I
(32:27):
gave this time I'm worse offfor it.
No, that can happen.
You know, people can takeadvantage of you and be jerks
and all that kind of stuff.
You know, I recognize that'sout there.
But let's not let the minorityof abuses out there stop us from
what I think is a beautifulhuman and biblical principle of
hey, give, and there's somethingabout it being given back to
(32:50):
you.
So that would be another thingI would really encourage our
single people to do.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Beautiful.
Well, and as you're saying,that, it's making me think.
You know it's so hard after yougraduate college to connect
with other people if you're notvery intentional about it.
And what better way, if you'rea single person that's looking
to meet somebody, get out thereand serve.
If all you're doing is focusingin on your business, your world
(33:17):
can kind of stay as big as youand your clients, and especially
if you're a weddingphotographer, all your clients
are already found.
They already found somebody.
So unless you're like gettingthe inside scoop on a bridesmaid
, or a groom's mess, you know.
But the reality is, if you'regetting out there and serving
and giving of yourself, and hey,if you don't wanna do
photography for free, find someother way to serve.
(33:37):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Life and joy.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
But taking advantage of those opportunities to serve
is also a great way practicallyjust to meet somebody that you
might not otherwise meet.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's so good, so good Rob.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Now I hear you guys both say regularly from the
stage on Sundays a couple ofthings.
Number one, you talk about howwe speak to mountains and number
two, that we see with eyes ofhope.
And I know these have very likechurch specific meanings.
But I'm curious because I feellike there's a broader context
(34:12):
that this carries tremendousvalue for as well for the
photography community, because Iknow in the photography
industry, one of the mostsobering statistics that we hear
about regularly is how the vastmajority of photographers and I
think it's something like 85%of them don't even make it to
the three year mark in theirbusiness before the dream dies.
Whoa, whoa, which is crazy.
(34:33):
So I'm curious for y'all, aspeople who live out this ethos
of we speak to mountains and wesee with eyes of hope what do
you think it looks like foraspiring entrepreneurs to speak
to mountains and see with eyesof hope in their businesses?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I love that you shared that statistic.
Believe it or not, this is truein church world too.
Most churches that get starteddon't last.
I didn't know that when westarted, so maybe that was good,
because we just were trying todo what we thought was in our
(35:10):
heart and, like we talked aboutearlier loving people, serving
people, pointing people toChrist.
But I say everything can failWithout a doubt, honestly.
Every marriage can fail, everybusiness opportunity can fail,
every relationship can fail,every car can break down.
(35:33):
Everything has the potential tofail.
Do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So good.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Go anyway.
Why are you going to live inthe Peruvial boat?
Get out of the boat, walk onthe water and if you begin to
sink, just pray.
There's some people around youthat can pull you up out of that
water and say, hey, at leastyou tried.
For us we would even saysomething like this I'd rather
(36:03):
be a water walking, sometimessinking disciple rather than a
disciple that never gets out ofthe boat.
And maybe some photographerscan take that on and say I'd
rather be a water walking,sometimes sinking photographer
rather than one that never getsout of the boat.
Try it, swing for the fences.
Not saying you shouldn't dowisdom and do market research
(36:25):
and cross your T's and dot yourI's and, depending on what your
bills are, you gotta be wiseabout stuff, don't get me wrong.
But at the same time, if youwanna do anything significant in
this life most times everythingdoes not line up perfectly
You're gonna have to take somestep of faith.
So for us, we speak tomountains.
(36:47):
There's a mountain of fear,there's a mountain of insecurity
, there's a mountain of doubt,there's a mountain of lack,
there's a mountain of fill inthe blank.
So what we're saying is we'respeaking to these mountains,
saying, hey, we believe that Godhas called us to move forward
here.
So either we're moving or thatmountain's moving, and we
(37:08):
believe that that mountain'sgonna have to move and just
begin to go forward.
We see with eyes of hope.
We know if it's not dead andnot done, then it's not final.
So we're like, keep on moving,keep on believing.
And if it gets to the pointwhere you go, you know what
cause I've had some friends andOnika, and I've had some friends
.
I've had to navigate even theclosing of a church, a dream.
(37:29):
Or the closing of a business orthe closing of a business and
you gotta say, hey, you didn'tfail, you were already a success
when you took the step.
Well done, well done.
So that's for whoever's outthere, if this can be some
motivation to keep on trying.
(37:51):
But then if you need themotivation, even the courage, to
go, you know what I'm gonnastop, cause that takes courage
too.
You gotta speak to the mountainof what will people think about
me.
You gotta speak to the mountainof I'm a failure.
You gotta speak to the mountainof my life does not matter,
because I'm not the leader NowI'm working for somebody else.
(38:13):
So you've gotta navigate thosethings too.
All of it requires courage, so,and humility.
So just be willing to take thatstep.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Wow, as you're talking about this, it's
reminded me I was just recentlyon this business retreat and we
were challenged by one of thepeople speaking to us that
weekend that it's so easy for usto see failure as the opposite
of success, and he really leanedinto us and he said what if
failure is success?
(38:44):
What if success is really theculmination of all the lessons
learned from the failures alongthe way, the lessons learned,
the character developed thatbrought us to this point of
understanding what it's gonnatake to make that next move, to
enter into that next stage wherethe success, as the world looks
(39:07):
at it, comes and it looks likethis natural thing that just
happened overnight, but reallyit's a byproduct of staying
faithful and staying down in thetrenches during these difficult
seasons where it doesn't feellike the momentum's happening,
it doesn't feel like things aregoing your way, and yet you
stayed the course.
You kept pushing through, youkept stepping out of the boat,
going.
I'm sinking right now, butwaiting for that moment to lift
(39:29):
back up.
And so, yeah, photographers, ifyou're listening and you're
hanging on, and you're justhanging on and struggling right
now, don't lose hope and don'tview your failure as the
opposite of success because,really, what you're doing is
obtaining incredible lessonslearned that are gonna propel
you forward towards whateverthat future success may be.
(39:49):
Yep, that's exactly right.
I'm also curious and I feellike y'all, as husband and wife,
can speak to this in a way thatI cannot.
I've had so many conversationswith photographers where it's
not even just that they don'tget to do their business with
their spouse no-transcript.
They feel like there's anabsence of support and
(40:10):
encouragement from their spouse.
They're off pursuing this dreamand they just feel kind of like
isolated and on their own.
And man, I, just as we'retalking, I'm going.
I think we'd miss a moment if Ididn't give you guys a chance
to speak to that person who'sfeeling alone in a business that
they would love to, even ifit's not a full on partnership,
just feel supported andencouraged by that spouse in
(40:32):
what they're pursuing on theirown.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Wow.
I would encourage that personto let their spouse know and to
say hey, I know that you're nota photographer.
I'm not asking you to be aphotographer, but I just miss
you.
Could you look at your calendar?
Could you look ahead at yourcalendar and could you just hang
with me on my next shoot?
Could you just like be therewith me and just be like my
extra set of hands, just so thatI can like spend time with you.
(40:57):
I know we haven't been able todo date nights, so I know we
haven't been able to go on thattrip that we wanted to go on,
but I know that just us spendingtime together is better than
nothing.
So it would mean the world ifyou even just had a clearer
picture of what I did, what awedding we can look like.
You might even have perspectiveon how I can be more efficient
when I'm at weddings or atevents or grand openings.
(41:18):
But I just would love to likeyou to even ask me questions
like how the wedding go, or howthe grand opening go, or how did
it go when you gave the familyback their family photos, and
just like ask me more questionsabout my craft.
Because when you ask mequestions, when you invest in me
, or when you even like offer tocome with me, it makes me feel
seen, and so I think like notwaiting for the person to have
(41:41):
the revelation, but bringing therevelation with humility and
with a benefit of the doubtspirit.
I think, when you have thebenefit of the doubt, spirit it
helps to fence this fall.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
That is so beautiful.
So what Onika just shared is sohealthy and so spot on, I think
, a really great practical I'llshare.
I think another angle of thisis for those who are feeling
like your spouse is not with youit can create in you a high
(42:11):
level of resentment, fear, anger, disappointment and all of
those emotions.
They're real emotions but, leftunchecked, will lead you down a
path of not only distance fromyour spouse but maybe even
(42:34):
divorce.
And I would say that is, in oursociety has become a viable
option.
And no shade or shame onanybody out there who has had to
navigate the pains of a divorce, but every person, every friend
of mine that's walked throughit.
They're not wishing that onanybody.
(42:56):
So understand that it's notjust, oh, my spouse and I are
having some difficulties.
I think you got to see the endgame here of some of these
emotions is to tear your familyapart and, if it doesn't end in
divorce, for you and your spousejust to be roommates, for you
(43:17):
to live in the same house butactually not have a deep
connection, and that is not whatyou signed up for, that's not
what your spouse signed up for.
So it goes beyond photography.
If your spouse is notsupporting the photography,
there's probably something elseunderlying that.
You guys got to get to, got towork on, got to navigate through
(43:39):
and don't feel any shame aboutthat.
Oh, nick and I we've married 26years.
We've had to navigate.
Got to talk to people, got tobe willing to invite other
people in.
It's a healthy thing to do.
Live with that type of humility.
You got to go see a therapist,go to a therapist.
You're going to go to a greatchurch and jump in a group you
know marriage group.
Do that.
You want to get a book and youguys start reading it together.
(43:59):
Do that, but invest in yourmarriage and then let's see if
the photography might be able tocome together even better,
because your marriage isactually stronger.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
And then I just would tag on real quick that make
sure your family is notsuffering.
I think if your family's goingwithout and it's not agreed upon
, but it's like you don'tsupport my business and you
don't believe in me, but likeyour spouse can't- buy a new
pair of shoes or can't like gobuy tickets to go be with the
(44:34):
family for Thanksgiving.
I think not shaming the spousefor being discouraged that the
finances are tight, but beinglike, hey, I know that my next
photography opportunity isn'tuntil XYZ because of that, that
means we won't be able to buyplane tickets to go home.
Are you okay with that?
Or do you want me to get a sidehustle Because if we don't go
(44:56):
home then you're going to resentme?
I think those realconversations because they could
support you but they also couldstart to resent you if you're
putting pressure on them to keeplike starving.
So I think you have to kind ofput your head up out of the mud
and say like is my familysuffering for my dream?
And if we are going to sufferbecause we've suffered, together
(45:18):
, then suffer together, thensuffer together.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
We're both in agreement Like, hey, that's what
we're signing up for.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
We have suffered and have seasons of suffering, but
it's agreed upon suffering.
It's not one person flourishingwhile the other one's suffering
.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, I'll say this too, and maybe we're going to-.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It doesn't mean you're not supportive it just
means like we haven't been homein a year, and I'm trying to be
as supportive as I can, but yourdream is taking up our whole
life.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And now we don't have a life.
So what you just said rightthere, onika, which is so
beautiful, onika and I have wehaven't read it in a little bit
here but we have an agreementlist.
We wrote some things down thatwe were agreeing and actually
asking God to do in our lives.
Again, we're Jesus followershere.
(46:01):
But maybe somebody's like, ohman, I don't really.
You know, I don't reallybelieve in God.
I think it's the least good towrite down a list with your
spouse.
They'll be like hey, what is itwe want to see for our family?
What is it that could befinancial, emotional, spiritual,
mental?
Anyway, write those things down, because if you're in agreement
, it's amazing what you're ableto go through together.
(46:23):
But if you're not in agreement,like Onika's talking about here,
it just creates a lot oftension and a lot of friction
and you're kind of you'repulling two different ways,
which is die, vision, die too.
You have die vision, twovisions.
One's going one way, one'sgoing another way, and it's very
, very difficult to move forward.
So, even for single people,we're giving you gold too,
(46:44):
because now you can go.
Oh, let me, I'm ahead of thecurve now.
Let me kind of put some ofthese things in place in the
beginning, so that I don't haveto deal with some of the pain.
All of us are gonna have todeal with pain, but I have to
deal with some of the pain thatmaybe others have had to
navigate.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So good.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
I love what you said in there about how it's not just
what you're asking for fromyour spouse, but it's also what
you're offering in the process,that it's not just this hey,
here's how I'm feeling and it'sthis one way thing, but hey, I
wanna bring something to tableand go hey, is there something
in me that needs to besacrificed?
I don't wanna just ask you tosacrifice.
There's this two way street andwe're gonna come to agreement
(47:24):
and where there's agreement, wecan move forward together, cause
it sounds like what y'all arereally getting at is, oftentimes
, if there's a lack of businesssupport, it's not really a
business issue, it's arelationship issue at its core.
And if you address therelationship issue, the business
issue will naturally start towork itself out as a byproduct
of the relationship, growing andhealing and being healthy and
(47:47):
whole and aligned in futuredirection, which is so
fascinating because I was justreading this morning a stat
somewhere that said basicallythere's all these couples that
were researched like couplesthat got divorced, couples that
stayed together, and one of thedefining characteristics of
couples that stay together andhave happy, healthy marriages is
they dream together and thatalignment of vision was
(48:10):
propelling marriages to grow andstay healthy and stay strong
and stay together where othersare falling apart.
So I love what you guys aretalking about there with that
man y'all.
You guys have such incrediblereach, such incredible influence
, not just in our church but inthe community and around the
world.
I know there are peoplelistening to this right now who
(48:33):
are going.
Man, I never heard of these two,but I wanna stay in touch.
I wanna hear more.
I wanna hear more of what theseguys have to say.
Where can folks find you ifthey wanna stay in touch or take
this conversation with pastorsEarl and Onika a little further?
Speaker 3 (48:48):
P-O and P-E as we call them.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
How can they take the conversation further?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Oh, that's a good question.
Here's Onika's cell phonenumber.
She starts getting blown uphere.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
Right, right, right.
She's like that was not on theagreement list.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Right, right, right, right right, right, right right,
that's right.
Yeah, we're not passing out.
No, we give our phone numberout to a lot of people.
With that being said, you wannafind us?
We're not going anywhere.
Shoreline City Church obviouslygot YouTube.
We got Instagram.
You can totally find us there.
Onika McClellan's on Instagram.
Earl McClellan's on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Make sure it's the real one.
There's some fakes out there.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
There's some fakes out there trying to get money
from people, if you ever askedyou for money.
It's not me, it's not me, it'snot me.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
I think we got some We'll get all those dropped in
the show notes for sure.
And you guys have a podcast ofyour own as well is that correct
?
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, we haven't shot anything fresh for it, but
there is some gold on there.
There is some gold on therefrom you for sure, which is the
name of the podcast is with somuch love.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
E&o podcast, so that's the name of the podcast.
It's everywhere podcasts aredistributed, so go ahead and you
can find it, and we have shareda lot on there.
We need to do more and we wantto do better at that, because I
don't we like talking aboutrelationships too.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yes, I love it.
Well, man.
Thank you guys, not just forcoming on the show and talking
about this with our photographycommunity, but I can attest to
these guys are living out thethings they're teaching on a
regular basis, and everybody Iknow I've been at this church
for a few years everybody I knowthat's walked with these guys
from day one says the same thingthat they are off the stage.
(50:28):
Who you are hearing here.
The things they are talkingabout are not just pie in the
sky, ideas for them, but realprinciples they are living out.
So I encourage you, jump in,check out the podcast, check out
the YouTube, check out thewebsite and give these guys a
follow.
I know we often close out ourservices on Sundays at Shoreline
with a prayer of blessing, so Iwas just curious.
(50:48):
This is not a normal thing.
You're on the bop, but wouldyou guys mind closing out this
episode with just a prayer ofblessing over this community?
of photographers who are tuningin around the country.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, and before we do that, we just want to say
thank you to you for being whoyou are, for being the type of
leader you are, even on here,your ability to hear, process
information and then rephrase it, repackage it.
It's a tremendous gift.
So thank you for being theleader you are, thank you for
being a part of this family,thank you for using your gifts
(51:19):
for the greater good.
All of that.
You are a fantastic human beingand we're honored to know you
and serve with you.
Honey, you want to pray Because, just so you know, I think
Jesus loves my wife more than me, so funny.
That's not accurately, that'snot biblical.
He loves us all the same.
But, honey, I think you prayingwould be great, unless you want
me to, because I know you'vebeen balancing the allergies.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
My allergies would be crazy.
I'll try, and then, if I startsneezing, then I'm gonna jump in
.
You take it over, we'll tagteam.
Don't rescue me if my allergiestake over.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
If the prayer ends and I chew instead of amen,
we'll know why.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Thanks, I love it.
Let me lift this up, father God, we thank you so much for every
amazing photographer that hashang out with us today.
We thank you for your hand upontheir life and we just speak a
prayer of blessing and favorover their business.
Thank you for crazy open doors,thank you for miracles, thank
you for connections that theycould have never dreamed of.
(52:12):
Thank you for enhancing theirgift.
Thank you for surrounding themwith other photographers who
will champion them, who willcoach them, who will partner
with them, who will speak lifein them.
Thank you for just breathing onevery single thing that their
hands touch.
Thank you for giving themwisdom on what things to say yes
to, what things to say no to.
We pray a blessing over everysingle photographer and creative
(52:33):
, in every person listening andwatching today, and we speak a
blessing in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Amen Amen.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
Thank you guys.
Wow, I was so looking forwardto this interview because I just
know, with those two Earlespecially you just never know
which way conversations will go,and y'all.
I loved their honesty.
I loved just how real they werein sharing just the heartfelt
struggles that they've faced andtheir challenges, while also
(53:04):
sharing the amazing lessons thatthey've learned and the things
that they've been able toimplement that any of us can
start implementing in our lives,our relationships and our
business, so that we can startwinning at work without losing
at love.
I hope this has been anencouragement for you.
I know I can't wait to go backthrough this episode and start
jotting down notes for myself.
(53:24):
I was sitting there as theywere saying some of these things
.
I was like, oh, I need to gotake note of that for me, Like
this is a good episode for metoo, and so I hope this has
blessed you, encouraged you, andI just got to let you know we
are just getting started withseason two.
We have an incredible seasonahead of us.
In fact, next month's episodefeatures a guest that I'm so
excited to introduce you to.
She's an incredible educator toeducators.
(53:47):
Her name is Laili Amadi andshe's gonna talk to us more
about what it looks like to liveand breathe in the education
space.
So if you've been wondering,hey, is that whole education
thing for me?
You're not gonna wanna missnext month's interview with
Laili Amadi.
That's it for today's episodeof the Bop.
Until next time, folks, keeplearning, keep loving and keep
(54:08):
chasing those dreams.
You were made for monkeys.
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