May 13, 2025 • 37 mins
Dr. Veronica Motley brings 35+ years of educational leadership wisdom to this powerful conversation about what truly makes leaders successful. Her journey from task-oriented manager to inspirational leader offers profound insights for anyone looking to elevate their leadership impact.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sara Best (00:07):
Greetings everybody in The Bossh ole Transformation
Nation.
This is Sara Best.
I have the privilege today oftalking with Dr.
Veronica Motley.
She's originally from NorthwestOhio.
She is a 35 plus year careereducation administrator,
fantastic leader and person.
(00:28):
Today we're going to talk alittle bit about keys to success
.
And isn't it always wonderfulto hear, especially if you're an
emerging leader, if you are thekind of manager or person who
wishes to advance and you lovethe leadership notion?
Hey, what are some of thethings I should be thinking
about and doing to make surethat I advance my skills and,
(00:51):
you know, essentially, stay outof The Boss hole Zone?
She continues to educate andinspire future educational
administrators by serving as afaculty member an adjunct
faculty member at University ofAkron and Kent State.
She received her bachelor's,master's and her doctorate from
the University of Akron.
Basically, what you need toknow about Dr.
(01:11):
Motley is she's the kind ofperson who feels that it's a
privilege to serve as a leader,and I think you'll get a sense
of that as she's talking.
She talks about some keysuccess factors for her patience
, waiting for things to play outinstead of jumping at every
opportunity, diversifying yourportfolio, so getting out there
(01:32):
and having different experiencesto learn, getting mentors.
These are not new ideas, butthey're very actionable, and she
presents them in such apositive and encouraging way.
The last thing you'll take awayis her commitment to service,
so, without further ado, let'sdig in.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
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Enjoy today's episode.
Sara Best (02:18):
Dr.
Motley, welcome to The Bosshole Chronicles.
What a treat to have you heretoday.
Dr. Veronica Motley (02:22):
Oh, thank you, Sara.
It is such a pleasure.
Thank you for the opportunity.
I'm truly flattered to be ableto speak with you today.
Sara Best (02:29):
Well, you're a person , Dr.
Motley, I see in the community.
I get to hear you speak in thecommunity and I know yours is a
voice that would benefit ourmany listeners out there in what
we call the BossholeTransformation Nation.
These are people that arecommitted to leadership actions
that move people and move usfrom here to there.
(02:51):
So it is a great delight to askyou some great questions today
and let our listeners hear yourfeedback.
Starting with, you have a verysuccessful, long career as
administrator in education.
One of the things I think ourlisteners would love to know is
your keys to success.
You know you've navigated a lotof ups and downs, challenges,
(03:18):
just in your sector alone.
But as a person, as a leader,as a woman, what are the things
that have helped you findleadership success?
Dr. Veronica Motley (03:27):
Well, that's a great question and
thank you for asking, because Ithink some people jump to the
conclusion sometime that it'slike I've done my time, but it's
really what you've done withyour time that prepared you for
a leadership role, and I didn'tget here by myself.
I was propelled forward andstood on the shoulders of great
(03:57):
mentors that went before me thatsaw something that I didn't
even see in myself.
That really contributed to mysuccess is great mentors.
Also, education obviously Idoctorate and being willing to
go as far as I can in myprofession from an academic
standpoint.
I think that was part of whathas contributed to my success.
(04:19):
I would also say, quite honestly, patience and perseverance.
I had to learn early on that,even though I felt at times I
was ready to move on, perhaps myskill set wasn't or my tools or
readiness, I was ready to leapand the opportunities weren't
there when I was thinking I wasready right.
So I think having patience andperseverance, waiting for the
(04:41):
right opportunity to come alongand I promise you and those that
are out there listening, theopportunity will come along, you
will be where you are supposedto be.
Someone would have told me 25years ago, even 10 years ago,
that I would be in Sylvania,Ohio.
I would have said, no, I'mgoing to be right here in the
area in which I grew up for 50plus years, but things have a
(05:06):
way of working out.
And the other thing I would sayis it's really been important
throughout my 30 plus years isbeing willing and taking
initiative to diversify myprofessional portfolio.
Even though I might not havebeen asked if I was in a room of
colleagues and my boss said I'dhave been asked if I was in a
room of colleagues and my bosssaid, hey, I need someone to
(05:27):
learn how to, or I need someonethat will take the initiative to
plan A, B or C.
I had my hand up.
Let me do it, let me try, letme learn.
So having that thirst to learnmore, to diversify my
professional portfolio, I thinkhas all those elements that
really contributed to my successas a leader, and a leader in
(05:49):
education.
Sara Best (05:51):
Oh, there's so much in there.
This is great.
Number one mentors, recognizingthat, no matter what your
industry, if you can find peopleand let's be honest, you may
have to ask them right that it'snot always provided, is it?
But finding someone who has hadsuccess and is up the road a
bit further from you, who'swilling to guide you.
(06:12):
I had a great mentor when I hadmy first managerial job and he
used to literally like act likehe was taking a baseball hat off
his head.
He said I'm taking off mymanager hat and I'm putting on
my coaching hat right nowbecause I want to share
something with you, and it justopened up my eyes to some things
.
I probably wouldn't have heardif he said it to me wearing the
(06:35):
other hat.
Dr. Veronica Motley (06:36):
Absolutely.
Sara Best (06:37):
He was a great mentor .
Education.
I love this.
Dr. Veronica Motley (06:41):
So whatever skills or credentials you have,
can you learn more, can youtake your education to the next
level, experiences.
So, although I have advanceddegrees, I also think the
(07:05):
experience and exposure workingin the field, amongst your peers
and from folks that are indifferent districts or maybe the
same work but a differentcompany, if you will, yes, also,
that's another type ofeducation right.
Sara Best (07:19):
Well, two gold nuggets in there.
One is it's easy to pick upwhat you don't want to do.
So I think that's part of thereason we share Bosshole stories
on the Bosshole Chronicles isbecause we want leaders to be
reminded hey, when you do that,you know it makes people feel
bad.
And also just being able totake advantage of workshops,
shadowing others, growing yourcapabilities by being exposed to
(07:42):
these other things Love it.
Talk to us about patience andperseverance, meaning when you
were waiting for the rightopportunity, Dr.
Motley, did you have to say noto some things?
Did people offer you something?
And you just knew in your gutit's not the right time for me
yet.
Yes, Absolutely.
Dr. Veronica Motley (08:00):
That's an uncomfortable place to be in.
I had a couple of headhuntersthat reached out to me at
another moment in time and itwould ironically, I would have
had to relocate.
It was south of Columbus, greatopportunity, great districts,
but I had things going on in mylife.
Like life keeps life-ing.
(08:21):
I had a father who at the timetime had not fight, married his
second wife, so he was gettingolder and it had to cross the
street from him.
The dynamics just weren't rightto pick up and move 150, 200
miles away.
It just wasn't right.
And so it's that patience andperseverance of recognizing,
(08:42):
even though I may want it,timing is important.
Patience and perseverance ofrecognizing, even though I may
want it, timing is important.
And there was no way that, withthe role of being a
superintendent in this district,that I could just roll up the
highway for a couple hours andthen roll back and be back for a
baseball game or a footballgame or an event.
Right, it wasn't the fit.
And I think what I've learnedthrough patience and
perseverance, it's so much aboutfit, yes, and it's so much more
(09:06):
than the work, because it'slife, lifestyle and work
combined that makes one a happyindividual.
And to move and chase thedollar and chase the title, I
would not have been fulfilled myrelationship with my father,
who passed it's almost a yearago and a couple of weeks I
would have missed out on qualitytime that almost a year ago, in
a couple of weeks, I would havemissed out on quality time that
(09:27):
I know I didn't have a lot ofquantity right.
So you have to make thosedecisions based on patience and
perseverance and knowing thatjust because that train pulls in
the station, sometimes you justlet it go by and wait for the
next one.
Sara Best (09:41):
Well, and what I'm taking away from this is that
the train will come back.
There'll be probably even abetter, bigger, cooler train.
Maybe that comes because it'llbe the right train, correct?
I love that.
I love that.
And then just the idea ofdiversifying your professional
portfolio by getting involved inother projects, and what that
(10:02):
one said to me.
Actually, all of these suggestto me or remind me that we have
agency all the time If I'munhappy or unfulfilled in my job
or I'm not happy with my boss.
But unfortunately, some peopleout there do work for a Boss
hole and remember, nobody wasborn to be a Boss hole.
And we give people grace to saythey don't mean to come into
(10:22):
work and make people unhappy,but all that to say, hey, I can
do some things to expand my ownhorizons, to grow, to develop,
to seek new opportunities.
These are just some simple,very practical steps people
could take.
Dr. Veronica Motley (10:36):
I agree with you and thank you for
saying that, because I thinkit's agency advocacy for self.
There are times I know as I'veworked in different districts
doing different jobs there comesa time typically maybe after
eight years in I kind of got alittle bored and it was kind of
like, what can I do to recharge?
And I took professional andpersonal responsibility to
(10:57):
recharge my own interest and totry out a different avenue or to
learn more.
I've embraced the attitude thatit's not the organization's
responsibility, it's myresponsibility to invest in
myself.
Sara Best (11:09):
Amen, I love that and I think that's a nice piece for
us to continue to focus on.
I do think, because we aretalking to an administrator in
education, I thought it would behelpful if we just took a
moment here.
Dr.
Motley, you could just give us,from your perspective, the
state of education as you see it.
You know there's a lot of crazystuff going on in the world
(11:30):
right now.
I won't even say what, but helpus hang a hat on some of the
things that you see that arereally positive.
Dr. Veronica Motley (11:39):
First and foremost, we are experiencing
unique and, some would say,unprecedented.
Some will say we've been herebefore Sure Times, right, mm-hmm
.
But I will say children arestill showing up every day,
educators are still showing upevery day.
Teaching and learning ishappening, yes, continuing to
(12:00):
thrive.
As educators, we take theprofessional responsibility to
say what else can we do to wrapour arms around our children,
our students?
Now more than ever, we reallyinvest in the whole child.
We are interested in not justthe grades that you get, but
also how are you, how are youfeeling, how are you doing today
(12:21):
, how can I help you?
And that alone is somethingwhere I think we recognize, as
educators, that we have to helpthis future generation.
And I want to share one morething that's so important.
This weekend I'm going to theevent called Dance for a Chance
at Southview.
We have Dance Gold in the fallat Northview, but it is when our
(12:44):
students.
They dance all day, starting atnoon and they go until like 10
pm at night to raise money.
Our children are veryphilanthropic and I have to tell
you, much more than I ever wasin high school and probably my
early years of college and,quite frankly, all the way up to
my 30s or 40s, sure that we aredoing the right work to
(13:13):
encourage them and to help themunderstand that the world is a
bigger place than just for them,that they have an
interconnectivity that is beyondtheir high school and they
raise thousands upon thousandsof dollars.
So, for those who are concerned, yes, yes, these are
challenging and unique times,but I promise you we will get
(13:33):
through this.
It may look different, it'sgoing to be uncomfortable and
quite different.
It's going to be uncomfortableand, quite frankly, it's going
to be hard, but the one thingthat educators do we always put
our students first, and that'sour guiding light.
Sara Best (13:45):
Those are encouraging words.
Thank you for those, Dr.
Motley.
I love what you said about thewhole child.
I think that's very in linewith the whole person.
You know, managers, supervisorsand leaders need to be looking
at their employees, their teammembers, the way you're looking
at the students.
Like this is not just a personreaching a goal or not.
(14:07):
This is not just aboutperformance.
This is about how a person isdoing so.
Real, simple guidance, but veryapplicable to leaders, very
applicable, and, yeah, we willapplicable to leaders.
Very applicable and yeah, wewill get through this.
Dr. Veronica Motley (14:20):
We will.
Sara Best (14:21):
Yeah, the job of you as chief administrator and
superintendent is to share thatmessage and help people believe
that it's true, isn't it?
Dr. Veronica Motley (14:29):
Yes, and I'm confident we will.
Yeah, we will learn from thisand I hope truly I hope that we
are better on the other side.
There's an old wise quote thatout of chaos comes order, and I
do believe that we are going togo through some chaotic times,
but the good thing is we have acompass within ourselves as
(14:51):
educators.
Children are going to show upevery day.
The buses are going to roll.
We're going to pick them up,we're going to put them in a
classroom and our kindergartnersare still going to learn how to
read and to do math.
Yes, athletics you know ourfootball team, our soccer teams,
our girls volleyball they'restill going to have events and
we're still going to havecompetitions.
We may have to hold on to thethings that we are most familiar
(15:14):
with to help us get through,but I assure you our children
are thriving and growing.
In some regards, they have noidea of what's going on three,
four levels beyond the classroom.
Right, they don't know aboutthe political arena right now,
but they do know.
Are we having pizza today anddo?
I have a hard class?
(15:34):
And I love my kindergartenteacher because she makes me
smart.
Sara Best (15:39):
Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, and a lot of what you
just said in there could be amanager too.
You know a manager and workingon themselves, being aware of
themselves, and then working tooptimize their individuals.
In much of that same mindset.
Dr. Veronica Motley (15:51):
You are so right because, as a leader of an
organization we have 8,000students and 1,000 employees, I
know that there are timesmembers of my team their stress
a new law has come out throughColumbus.
What are we going to do?
We just implemented somethingthat made us go left.
Now we're going right.
What are we going to do?
(16:12):
And as a leader and I sharewith those who are tuning in as
a leader, it's your job to makesure that you present confidence
, that you present faith, thatyou bring a sense of trust and
inspiration that it's going tobe okay, because if they see
that you're nervous, they'regoing to be terrified.
(16:33):
You set the tone correct andwe'll need to listen sometimes
where you really want to workthrough the agenda, but
sometimes folks just need a safespace to throw up and explain
where they are and how they feel.
And sometimes you might have totake a step aside before you
can take a step forward, becausewe have to be sensitive to the
(16:55):
human being, the person, thesoul, the spirit of our team and
our employees.
Sara Best (17:01):
Yeah well, and I've had the privilege of watching
you with not only your cabinetmembers but also your group of
managers.
I've seen you talk to them andyou are that way.
That is the energy you exude,it is what you make available,
it's a space you hold for them.
It's pretty amazing.
Dr. Veronica Motley (17:18):
I try it.
Coupled with a little sense ofhumor, you got to have humor.
Sara Best (17:22):
Yeah, you're good at that too.
Dr. Veronica Motley (17:24):
You have to laugh because if you don't
you'll just.
You can lose it sometimes, butthere's a lot of power in
laughing together.
Sara Best (17:32):
Absolutely, and I think you know laughing is like
inner jogging.
If you want to run a marathon,just you know.
Tell some good, clean jokes orgo watch a comedy.
It is good for stopping thatstress response.
Let me harken back to.
You mentioned the dance deal atSouthview High School, the kids
raising money.
That makes me think aboutservice and I also know I guess
(17:53):
in addition to your obligatoryservices services because of the
role you hold you engage inother acts of service and other
ways in the community.
I know that's important to you.
I also think it rounds out thefulfillment for you.
Some people might be missingthat and they don't know they're
missing.
So I thought it would be goodto hear a little bit about what
(18:15):
you've gotten involved in, whyand just what service means to
you in your leadership.
Dr. Veronica Motley (18:21):
Well, I definitely strive to be a
servant leader.
I try to give more and,especially as I'm approaching
the sunset of my career, I thinkit even means more to me to
give back and to help others andto mentor and, in some
instances, even sponsorindividuals who aspire to be in
(18:42):
administration or otherleadership roles.
When I look at opportunities inour community, I enjoy engaging
with the public.
I really do, and I will tellyou that there could be a lot I
could show up at something 24hours a day because of my
position, right, but I reallytry to partner with agencies and
organizations that cancontribute to the growth and
(19:03):
development of our studentswithin our district.
I try to network for thepurpose of not only it's a
learning opportunity for ourstudents, but also an
opportunity for our communitymembers, our business owners, to
come see what we are workingwith, what's in the pipeline,
the employees in the pipeline,if you will, before they cross
the stage, and to learn moreabout what education looks like
(19:26):
today so many times we refer to.
Well, when I was in school andI will tell you, we didn't have
Chromebooks when I was we stillhad sleep chalkboards, I believe
, Sara.
Wow, but it's important to usethose engagement opportunities
for me to share the great thingsthat are happening in our
school buildings and to promoteour students, in addition to
(19:48):
maybe having an opportunity forsome member of chamber to come
and say I need some studentsthat are interested in, or need
some, community service hours.
What a great win-win situation.
So I do try to pick things thatare partnership related and then
I have some passion projects ofmy own.
I love animals I have, you know, my doggy named Cricket and
(20:12):
things I can do to support thehumane society.
That speaks to my personalheart.
I'm also actively, very heavilyinvolved in supporting women in
leadership and helping themfind opportunities to meet their
professional goals and helpingthem to understand about
wholeness in life and notbalance.
(20:32):
Nice that you can still moveforward, maybe not as rapidly as
you thought, or maybe you'restaying at home and raising
children, and that's okay, butthat's leadership.
And what other things can youdo?
That's just one of my passionprojects, for sure, and how I
discern how I will utilize mytime, not only for my
(20:53):
professional world, butsometimes my personal and
professional world.
Sara Best (21:02):
And I think I would take away from what you talked
about, the networking andrelationship to serving or
connecting, buildingpartnerships that would support
education and the students andthe community.
I think companies can do thesame thing.
Oh, absolutely it doesn'tmatter if we manufacture cans,
or I'm not thinking of a goodexample widgets yeah, it doesn't
(21:23):
matter the product, right,right.
Dr. Veronica Motley (21:26):
It's the mindset, the behaviors and the
investment and the people aroundwho are making the product and
investing in the product.
It's our community.
I'm so fortunate and privilegedto have the opportunity and
investing in the product it'sour community.
I'm so fortunate and privilegedto have the opportunity to be
in Sylvania.
I truly feel like I serve andit's important that we continue
to look at leadership becauseyou're giving more.
(21:50):
It's an outpouring of oneself,it is Invest in others and
really it's perpetuatingleadership and the growth
mindset and investing in othersand being a mentor for others.
It just perpetuates the cycle.
It just allows us to grow andbe better human beings.
That helps us personally andprofessionally.
Sara Best (22:09):
I would submit too that the person who benefits the
most it may seem daunting or alot of work or extra work you
know, hey, I'm just a manager onthe shop floor, or I'm just,
you know, a CFO, or I don't havetime for that.
No, the person who's going tobenefit greatly from investment
in service like that is theindividual.
Maybe people aren't aware,They've never really had the
(22:34):
opportunity to give of theirtime, but I really think this is
a missing element of we'll callit burnout treatment, maybe
even burnout prevention.
It's a place where we haveagency to do something that's
good for others, but essentiallyit's really good for us, for
our heart, for our psyche, thewhole bit.
Dr. Veronica Motley (22:51):
It fills your spirit.
You know, a four-letter wordthat I don't like is "just Just
yeah, I'm just a manager, I'mjust a teacher, I'm just a mom,
I'm just.
You hear that all the time.
Yes, it's a four-letter word,you're minimizing your own value
and I sometimes find, truly, Igo to a lot of evening events,
(23:14):
it's part of my job, theobligation part, but Truly I go
to a lot of evening events, it'spart of my job, the obligation
part.
But you know, there's nogreater feeling.
I may be dragging my knuckleswhen I get there, but when I go
(23:34):
to an orchestra concert, by timeI'm oboe and being able to be
part of that growth, it's that Ishow up with knuckles dragging,
but by the time I listen to theorchestra or see a musical, my
bucket is filled.
Sara Best (23:47):
That's so good.
This would probably be a goodtime to say in our show notes.
Dr.
Motley, we'll have your contactinformation and I just want to
make a serious plug.
You speak at a lot ofconferences.
You speak at national events.
I've shared the stage with youbut more than anything, I just
love the way you put informationtogether.
(24:09):
So I want to say to ourlisteners that may have need of
an engaging, motivating speaker,especially a woman who's found
success and has great, amazingtips for leaders.
I think they should reach outand give you a call you
available for that.
Dr. Veronica Motley (24:25):
Yes, that would be fantastic.
I would like to share what I'velearned from others so I can
continue to invest and pour intoothers, because that's what
makes it better at what we do.
Everybody benefits.
Sara Best (24:36):
I would love that.
Okay good, and you're humble,as always.
I see that.
I hear that.
It's amazing.
I would love to know.
I think our listeners wouldlove to know have you ever
worked for a Boss hole or been aBoss hole yourself?
Dr. Veronica Motley (24:51):
Yes, and a little bit on the second yes,
okay, yes and yes, yes, Idefinitely worked for a Boss
hole and it was tough, I thinkwhen I realized Boss holes can
dismantle you emotionally andmentally and have you question
your value and worth andcontribution.
(25:11):
Yes, they're suffocating andyou can wallow in it.
Or you can decide to say I needto take control and I need to
do something different and Ineed to leave and I need to take
a leap in faith, bet on myselfand I need to move on, and
that's okay.
It's scary, it is absolutelyterrifying, yeah, but leaders
(25:35):
leap, leaders try, leaders takerisk.
Leaders understand that failureis not failure.
It's a lesson in what not to doand you use it as a lesson.
Then you move on and try again,so you don't give up.
But I definitely worked for aBoss hole.
That short and sweet.
I was right-hand person ofsupport for several years.
(25:56):
There was a younger newemployee that came into the
organization, probably half myage and was a male, did not have
my credentials, but all of asudden was propelled to the top
of the food chain, if you willLike.
My voice was just silenced.
It was all of a sudden like Ididn't know what I was talking
(26:17):
about, I would have hissy fitsthrown at me.
At one point I had a meetingwith this individual and I said
I don't understand this energy,like I couldn't get around it
anymore, like I don't understandwhere this energy is coming
from.
We've been fine until the last,like what's going on, and you
know, I never got a clear answer.
(26:37):
Never got a clear answer.
But the one answer I did getit's time, yeah, it's time.
So that was motivating and forme myself, being a boss, whole
early on in my leadership career, I was very I'm driven.
I'm just, by nature, I'm taskoriented.
Yes, which you know.
(26:58):
Yes, I get caught up in thetask and ignore the people, yeah
, and I will accomplish a task,I will get it done.
But what I realized with myprofessional maturity at least
that's what I would like to callit that people are more
important than the task.
If you invest in people,inspire them again, allow them
to have a level of trust withinyou, the task can be completed,
(27:20):
and be completed collectively,and often comes out with a
better outcome than if youisolate everybody.
Individuals, with respect, gowith positive intent and
sometimes that's hard, but youhave to assume positive intent,
and early on in my career I wasa just do what I say type of gal
(27:42):
, don't ask questions.
Yes, I know better, and now andagain, nearing the sunset of my
career, I ask more questionsnow than I ever have.
Sara Best (27:52):
It highlights the idea that no one intends to be a
Boss hole.
We come into awareness of howour natural drives may advance
the ball for some people andcreate challenge for others.
I mean for the task-focusedpeople that worked with you or
for you they probably love thatyou were task-focused.
For the other people thatneeded a little more
(28:13):
relationship, focus or empathy,you quickly realized that you
know you got to dial up thatextroversion and that focus
outside just the work.
But I do think that comes fromexperience, it's emotional
intelligence, it's all that goodstuff and willing to reflect
that.
Dr. Veronica Motley (28:30):
And no, I'm not that emotional gal, I'm
just, I'm not wired that way.
Right Part of it is having thereflection to know I'm not and
sometimes having to go, oops, Ineed to back up.
Okay, team, let's talk.
You know.
Or circling back to someonesaying you know, yesterday we
talked and I was caught up in myown world.
(28:52):
I'm so sorry.
I could tell you were having amoment, what's going on and
having that ability.
But again, that's 35 years intothe game and it took me a while
to get there.
Sara Best (29:05):
You know I can relate to that.
Holy cow.
Well, in the world ofPredictive Index we know that
you are an individualist.
That's a reference profile.
There are 17 differentreference profiles but your
pattern is marked by higherdominance, very much a task
focus.
You love a challenge, you'reforward-facing and moving.
You move at afaster-than-average pace, but
(29:27):
you do like to know.
You have a sense of yourpatience factor is kind of a
combination of let'sconsistently do this well and
let's change it up.
It's kind of right there in themiddle and you're highly
flexible.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent ways that things can
happen.
That's an asset too.
You don't need certainty.
You can live with ambiguityKind of a contrast, isn't it
(29:48):
from?
I need to know and I can livein ambiguity and I can live in
ambiguity.
But to me, what that suggests isyou recognize that and you've
said this throughout our talktoday it's not about you.
What you're able to accomplishis because of the dynamic you're
able to create with others andthe relationship, the
partnership.
(30:08):
So for any person who's aleader, especially a leader with
high dominance, yes, there aretimes when you take decisive
action, when you say this iswhat we're going to do, but
there's always going to be aneed to bring people in.
So you've mastered this idea ofengaging, building the
relationship, getting the buy-into just make better decisions.
(30:29):
I think what you said is theoutcome probably ended up better
than maybe what I thought.
Dr. Veronica Motley (30:34):
Absolutely.
And it's also knowing what youdon't know and being able to say
what you don't know.
And I also to your point.
I think one of thecharacteristics of being an
individualist as well is I kickthe status quo?
Yes, you do.
I can't do the status quo.
So sometimes I'm seen as acatalyst or a change agent, but
(30:55):
I really do try hard not to goin and blow it up.
I try to ask questions and tellme the history and what's the
rationale and how did we gethere.
But in the same token, it's thechameleon being able to know
what, to ebb and flow, yes,being able to say I can have a
little risk factor, but I knowwhere I'm going.
Being able to say I can have alittle risk factor, but I know
(31:16):
where I'm going and I do alittle serpentining to get there
, but I am more of a straightline person.
But again, that's thatreflection and maturity and
bringing folks in.
And I think specifically to myrole and for anyone who changes
from one company to another, youknow you have to go into the
new company and understand theculture, yes, and the energy and
(31:36):
the organizational chart andthe social network.
And I had to take time to dothat because I was new to
Sylvania.
I'm from Northeast Ohio, I amhere during COVID.
It was hard to createrelationships when you're on a
computer screen with 12 one-inchsquares around the screen and
develop those relationships.
(31:58):
But in time it happenedorganically and I'm so happy
that it did.
Sara Best (32:03):
Not an easy time to engage as the chief leader of a
school district when everythingclosed down.
Absolutely.
You're the kind of person, Dr.
Motley, who likes to upend thestatus quo, because things can
always be better.
They can always be made betterand stronger.
I was talking with a CEO earliertoday about what we call the
(32:23):
change challengers, championsand catalysts, and this is
research that my partner, John,has done using the Predictive
Index, just recognizing thatpeople fall into different
categories.
You know there's champions ofchange.
You'd be one of those.
You definitely see theopportunity and the possibility
all the time.
And there are challengers ofchange, which actually is about
(32:45):
62.8% of the population.
Sorry, John, if I got thatnumber wrong.
That's a lot of people.
And then the third group, thecatalysts.
You know they probably can getbehind a change if there's a
healthy plan and an appropriatetimeline.
And for both groups thechallengers and the catalysts
(33:06):
the need for information andsome time to get our head around
it makes so much sense.
I think we intuitively know thisabout people, how they're very
different about change.
But isn't it kind of nice as aleader to recognize a lot of
people aren't like me?
So because I embrace changedoesn't mean change can't happen
because these people don'tsupport it.
(33:27):
It just means that I need tosolicit their feedback, their
buy-in.
Maybe the questions I need toask should come from them, or
the questions I need to answerif you will.
Certainly there's a lot ofgreat work out there about
change management and helpingpeople navigate what we call the
change curve.
For you, you're just talkingabout adaptation.
(33:48):
You, as a leader, haveidentified a way where you need
to demonstrate adaptation and dowhat does not come naturally
for you for the good of thestaff, the team and the
enterprise, and I think that'spowerful.
Dr. Veronica Motley (34:03):
I would agree and to share that or to
co-sign on your thinking.
You know, when I came fromNortheast Ohio that's where my
career has been the biggestdifference has been I was 30
years in Northeast Ohio I didn'thave a whole narrative behind
purpose and rationale.
People kind of said she knowswhat she's doing, she's been
(34:24):
around, we know her work, we'regood.
If she says it's good, then Italk to another entity and it's
like but we don't really knowyou, we're not comfortable with
you.
How do we know you're doing theright thing?
You're talking about continuousimprovement and status quo.
Some folks would say you're justinsatiable, you just want to
keep going right.
(34:45):
You're insatiable.
I'm like no, I'm not alwaysmaking it better.
If we're good, we can be great.
If we're great, we can besuperb.
People might say that'sinsatiable.
But as a leader, and especiallyas a leader of an organization
that works with children, wecannot afford to rest on our
laurels because we're preparingthem for a world that we don't
(35:06):
even know what their employmentpossibilities will be.
Absolutely, but that's for anyleadership piece.
But I like what you said aboutthe challengers and the other
person 62% were 62%.
Sara Best (35:19):
The challengers.
Then we have the champions.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:22):
Champions.
Sara Best (35:22):
Y ep and the catalysts.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:24):
Yeah, I'm definitely the champion
personality, for sure.
Sara Best (35:28):
Me and you both.
Ask my poor husband, who's hadto paint the walls in my house
like 800 times.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:37):
It's time for a change because I feel like
it.
I can totally relate.
I can totally relate to that.
Sara Best (35:41):
Oh, Dr.
Motley.
So, as we wrap up here, what'snext for you?
What are you looking forward to?
We're kind of inching towardthe end of the school year.
It's coming up quickly.
What's on the horizon for you?
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:52):
Well, outside of making it through to
the end of the school year,which is a big moment, I mean,
graduation is around the corner.
It's in June.
That's like the Super Bowl forus at this level and in
education.
I'm really excited about that.
For those who may not know, Ihave been granted an opportunity
with an extension in mycontract, but I'm wrapping up in
(36:14):
July of '26.
Okay, wow, okay, another year,yeah, another year, but a long
time to still make some thingshappen that are great for our
kids and our community.
I still want to continue towork in education, so
professionally and personally.
I'm not done yet.
I'm not done yet.
I'm not done yet.
(36:34):
I would like to revisit, maybegoing back and teaching at the
college level, something that'sa little less demanding, and the
superintendent's position withthe evening activities.
Again, still love what I do, todial it back a little bit,
maybe do some traveling, but Ipromise, for those who are
listening and tuning in topodcast, I'm not counting the
(36:56):
days, I'm making the days countand I'm not done yet.
So that's the other thing.
It's looking forward to what'snext, although it hasn't been
perfectly defined.
We'll see what happens, but I'mexcited about the future.
Sara Best (37:08):
Wow, it is exciting to hear that, and we're grateful
that you would come and shareyour experience, strength and
hope with our listeners, becausethat's a lot of what this was
today.
We wish you all the best andwe'll check in with you again.
We'll see you next time on theBossh ole Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the
Bossh ole Chronicles.
It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Bossh
ole story that you want to sharewith the Bossh ole
Transformation Nation, justreach out.
You can email us atmystory@thebossholechronicles.
com.
Again,mystory@thebossholechronicles.
com, we'll see you next time.
Greetings everybody in The Bossh ole Transformation
Nation.
This is Sara Best.
I have the privilege today oftalking with Dr.
Veronica Motley.
She's originally from NorthwestOhio.
She is a 35 plus year careereducation administrator,
fantastic leader and person.
(00:28):
Today we're going to talk alittle bit about keys to success
.
And isn't it always wonderfulto hear, especially if you're an
emerging leader, if you are thekind of manager or person who
wishes to advance and you lovethe leadership notion?
Hey, what are some of thethings I should be thinking
about and doing to make surethat I advance my skills and,
(00:51):
you know, essentially, stay outof The Boss hole Zone?
She continues to educate andinspire future educational
administrators by serving as afaculty member an adjunct
faculty member at University ofAkron and Kent State.
She received her bachelor's,master's and her doctorate from
the University of Akron.
Basically, what you need toknow about Dr.
(01:11):
Motley is she's the kind ofperson who feels that it's a
privilege to serve as a leader,and I think you'll get a sense
of that as she's talking.
She talks about some keysuccess factors for her patience
, waiting for things to play outinstead of jumping at every
opportunity, diversifying yourportfolio, so getting out there
(01:32):
and having different experiencesto learn, getting mentors.
These are not new ideas, butthey're very actionable, and she
presents them in such apositive and encouraging way.
The last thing you'll take awayis her commitment to service,
so, without further ado, let'sdig in.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
The Bossh ole Chronicles are brought to you by
Real Good Ventures, a talentoptimization firm helping
organizations diagnose theirmost critical people and
execution issues withworld-class analytics.
Make sure to check out all theresources in the show notes and
be sure to follow us and shareyour feedback.
Enjoy today's episode.
Sara Best (02:18):
Dr.
Motley, welcome to The Bosshole Chronicles.
What a treat to have you heretoday.
Dr. Veronica Motley (02:22):
Oh, thank you, Sara.
It is such a pleasure.
Thank you for the opportunity.
I'm truly flattered to be ableto speak with you today.
Sara Best (02:29):
Well, you're a person , Dr.
Motley, I see in the community.
I get to hear you speak in thecommunity and I know yours is a
voice that would benefit ourmany listeners out there in what
we call the BossholeTransformation Nation.
These are people that arecommitted to leadership actions
that move people and move usfrom here to there.
(02:51):
So it is a great delight to askyou some great questions today
and let our listeners hear yourfeedback.
Starting with, you have a verysuccessful, long career as
administrator in education.
One of the things I think ourlisteners would love to know is
your keys to success.
You know you've navigated a lotof ups and downs, challenges,
(03:18):
just in your sector alone.
But as a person, as a leader,as a woman, what are the things
that have helped you findleadership success?
Dr. Veronica Motley (03:27):
Well, that's a great question and
thank you for asking, because Ithink some people jump to the
conclusion sometime that it'slike I've done my time, but it's
really what you've done withyour time that prepared you for
a leadership role, and I didn'tget here by myself.
I was propelled forward andstood on the shoulders of great
(03:57):
mentors that went before me thatsaw something that I didn't
even see in myself.
That really contributed to mysuccess is great mentors.
Also, education obviously Idoctorate and being willing to
go as far as I can in myprofession from an academic
standpoint.
I think that was part of whathas contributed to my success.
(04:19):
I would also say, quite honestly, patience and perseverance.
I had to learn early on that,even though I felt at times I
was ready to move on, perhaps myskill set wasn't or my tools or
readiness, I was ready to leapand the opportunities weren't
there when I was thinking I wasready right.
So I think having patience andperseverance, waiting for the
(04:41):
right opportunity to come alongand I promise you and those that
are out there listening, theopportunity will come along, you
will be where you are supposedto be.
Someone would have told me 25years ago, even 10 years ago,
that I would be in Sylvania,Ohio.
I would have said, no, I'mgoing to be right here in the
area in which I grew up for 50plus years, but things have a
(05:06):
way of working out.
And the other thing I would sayis it's really been important
throughout my 30 plus years isbeing willing and taking
initiative to diversify myprofessional portfolio.
Even though I might not havebeen asked if I was in a room of
colleagues and my boss said I'dhave been asked if I was in a
room of colleagues and my bosssaid, hey, I need someone to
(05:27):
learn how to, or I need someonethat will take the initiative to
plan A, B or C.
I had my hand up.
Let me do it, let me try, letme learn.
So having that thirst to learnmore, to diversify my
professional portfolio, I thinkhas all those elements that
really contributed to my successas a leader, and a leader in
(05:49):
education.
Sara Best (05:51):
Oh, there's so much in there.
This is great.
Number one mentors, recognizingthat, no matter what your
industry, if you can find peopleand let's be honest, you may
have to ask them right that it'snot always provided, is it?
But finding someone who has hadsuccess and is up the road a
bit further from you, who'swilling to guide you.
(06:12):
I had a great mentor when I hadmy first managerial job and he
used to literally like act likehe was taking a baseball hat off
his head.
He said I'm taking off mymanager hat and I'm putting on
my coaching hat right nowbecause I want to share
something with you, and it justopened up my eyes to some things
.
I probably wouldn't have heardif he said it to me wearing the
(06:35):
other hat.
Dr. Veronica Motley (06:36):
Absolutely.
Sara Best (06:37):
He was a great mentor .
Education.
I love this.
Dr. Veronica Motley (06:41):
So whatever skills or credentials you have,
can you learn more, can youtake your education to the next
level, experiences.
So, although I have advanceddegrees, I also think the
(07:05):
experience and exposure workingin the field, amongst your peers
and from folks that are indifferent districts or maybe the
same work but a differentcompany, if you will, yes, also,
that's another type ofeducation right.
Sara Best (07:19):
Well, two gold nuggets in there.
One is it's easy to pick upwhat you don't want to do.
So I think that's part of thereason we share Bosshole stories
on the Bosshole Chronicles isbecause we want leaders to be
reminded hey, when you do that,you know it makes people feel
bad.
And also just being able totake advantage of workshops,
shadowing others, growing yourcapabilities by being exposed to
(07:42):
these other things Love it.
Talk to us about patience andperseverance, meaning when you
were waiting for the rightopportunity, Dr.
Motley, did you have to say noto some things?
Did people offer you something?
And you just knew in your gutit's not the right time for me
yet.
Yes, Absolutely.
Dr. Veronica Motley (08:00):
That's an uncomfortable place to be in.
I had a couple of headhuntersthat reached out to me at
another moment in time and itwould ironically, I would have
had to relocate.
It was south of Columbus, greatopportunity, great districts,
but I had things going on in mylife.
Like life keeps life-ing.
(08:21):
I had a father who at the timetime had not fight, married his
second wife, so he was gettingolder and it had to cross the
street from him.
The dynamics just weren't rightto pick up and move 150, 200
miles away.
It just wasn't right.
And so it's that patience andperseverance of recognizing,
(08:42):
even though I may want it,timing is important.
Patience and perseverance ofrecognizing, even though I may
want it, timing is important.
And there was no way that, withthe role of being a
superintendent in this district,that I could just roll up the
highway for a couple hours andthen roll back and be back for a
baseball game or a footballgame or an event.
Right, it wasn't the fit.
And I think what I've learnedthrough patience and
perseverance, it's so much aboutfit, yes, and it's so much more
(09:06):
than the work, because it'slife, lifestyle and work
combined that makes one a happyindividual.
And to move and chase thedollar and chase the title, I
would not have been fulfilled myrelationship with my father,
who passed it's almost a yearago and a couple of weeks I
would have missed out on qualitytime that almost a year ago, in
a couple of weeks, I would havemissed out on quality time that
(09:27):
I know I didn't have a lot ofquantity right.
So you have to make thosedecisions based on patience and
perseverance and knowing thatjust because that train pulls in
the station, sometimes you justlet it go by and wait for the
next one.
Sara Best (09:41):
Well, and what I'm taking away from this is that
the train will come back.
There'll be probably even abetter, bigger, cooler train.
Maybe that comes because it'llbe the right train, correct?
I love that.
I love that.
And then just the idea ofdiversifying your professional
portfolio by getting involved inother projects, and what that
(10:02):
one said to me.
Actually, all of these suggestto me or remind me that we have
agency all the time If I'munhappy or unfulfilled in my job
or I'm not happy with my boss.
But unfortunately, some peopleout there do work for a Boss
hole and remember, nobody wasborn to be a Boss hole.
And we give people grace to saythey don't mean to come into
(10:22):
work and make people unhappy,but all that to say, hey, I can
do some things to expand my ownhorizons, to grow, to develop,
to seek new opportunities.
These are just some simple,very practical steps people
could take.
Dr. Veronica Motley (10:36):
I agree with you and thank you for
saying that, because I thinkit's agency advocacy for self.
There are times I know as I'veworked in different districts
doing different jobs there comesa time typically maybe after
eight years in I kind of got alittle bored and it was kind of
like, what can I do to recharge?
And I took professional andpersonal responsibility to
(10:57):
recharge my own interest and totry out a different avenue or to
learn more.
I've embraced the attitude thatit's not the organization's
responsibility, it's myresponsibility to invest in
myself.
Sara Best (11:09):
Amen, I love that and I think that's a nice piece for
us to continue to focus on.
I do think, because we aretalking to an administrator in
education, I thought it would behelpful if we just took a
moment here.
Dr.
Motley, you could just give us,from your perspective, the
state of education as you see it.
You know there's a lot of crazystuff going on in the world
(11:30):
right now.
I won't even say what, but helpus hang a hat on some of the
things that you see that arereally positive.
Dr. Veronica Motley (11:39):
First and foremost, we are experiencing
unique and, some would say,unprecedented.
Some will say we've been herebefore Sure Times, right, mm-hmm
.
But I will say children arestill showing up every day,
educators are still showing upevery day.
Teaching and learning ishappening, yes, continuing to
(12:00):
thrive.
As educators, we take theprofessional responsibility to
say what else can we do to wrapour arms around our children,
our students?
Now more than ever, we reallyinvest in the whole child.
We are interested in not justthe grades that you get, but
also how are you, how are youfeeling, how are you doing today
(12:21):
, how can I help you?
And that alone is somethingwhere I think we recognize, as
educators, that we have to helpthis future generation.
And I want to share one morething that's so important.
This weekend I'm going to theevent called Dance for a Chance
at Southview.
We have Dance Gold in the fallat Northview, but it is when our
(12:44):
students.
They dance all day, starting atnoon and they go until like 10
pm at night to raise money.
Our children are veryphilanthropic and I have to tell
you, much more than I ever wasin high school and probably my
early years of college and,quite frankly, all the way up to
my 30s or 40s, sure that we aredoing the right work to
(13:13):
encourage them and to help themunderstand that the world is a
bigger place than just for them,that they have an
interconnectivity that is beyondtheir high school and they
raise thousands upon thousandsof dollars.
So, for those who are concerned, yes, yes, these are
challenging and unique times,but I promise you we will get
(13:33):
through this.
It may look different, it'sgoing to be uncomfortable and
quite different.
It's going to be uncomfortableand, quite frankly, it's going
to be hard, but the one thingthat educators do we always put
our students first, and that'sour guiding light.
Sara Best (13:45):
Those are encouraging words.
Thank you for those, Dr.
Motley.
I love what you said about thewhole child.
I think that's very in linewith the whole person.
You know, managers, supervisorsand leaders need to be looking
at their employees, their teammembers, the way you're looking
at the students.
Like this is not just a personreaching a goal or not.
(14:07):
This is not just aboutperformance.
This is about how a person isdoing so.
Real, simple guidance, but veryapplicable to leaders, very
applicable, and, yeah, we willapplicable to leaders.
Very applicable and yeah, wewill get through this.
Dr. Veronica Motley (14:20):
We will.
Sara Best (14:21):
Yeah, the job of you as chief administrator and
superintendent is to share thatmessage and help people believe
that it's true, isn't it?
Dr. Veronica Motley (14:29):
Yes, and I'm confident we will.
Yeah, we will learn from thisand I hope truly I hope that we
are better on the other side.
There's an old wise quote thatout of chaos comes order, and I
do believe that we are going togo through some chaotic times,
but the good thing is we have acompass within ourselves as
(14:51):
educators.
Children are going to show upevery day.
The buses are going to roll.
We're going to pick them up,we're going to put them in a
classroom and our kindergartnersare still going to learn how to
read and to do math.
Yes, athletics you know ourfootball team, our soccer teams,
our girls volleyball they'restill going to have events and
we're still going to havecompetitions.
We may have to hold on to thethings that we are most familiar
(15:14):
with to help us get through,but I assure you our children
are thriving and growing.
In some regards, they have noidea of what's going on three,
four levels beyond the classroom.
Right, they don't know aboutthe political arena right now,
but they do know.
Are we having pizza today anddo?
I have a hard class?
(15:34):
And I love my kindergartenteacher because she makes me
smart.
Sara Best (15:39):
Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, and a lot of what you
just said in there could be amanager too.
You know a manager and workingon themselves, being aware of
themselves, and then working tooptimize their individuals.
In much of that same mindset.
Dr. Veronica Motley (15:51):
You are so right because, as a leader of an
organization we have 8,000students and 1,000 employees, I
know that there are timesmembers of my team their stress
a new law has come out throughColumbus.
What are we going to do?
We just implemented somethingthat made us go left.
Now we're going right.
What are we going to do?
(16:12):
And as a leader and I sharewith those who are tuning in as
a leader, it's your job to makesure that you present confidence
, that you present faith, thatyou bring a sense of trust and
inspiration that it's going tobe okay, because if they see
that you're nervous, they'regoing to be terrified.
(16:33):
You set the tone correct andwe'll need to listen sometimes
where you really want to workthrough the agenda, but
sometimes folks just need a safespace to throw up and explain
where they are and how they feel.
And sometimes you might have totake a step aside before you
can take a step forward, becausewe have to be sensitive to the
(16:55):
human being, the person, thesoul, the spirit of our team and
our employees.
Sara Best (17:01):
Yeah well, and I've had the privilege of watching
you with not only your cabinetmembers but also your group of
managers.
I've seen you talk to them andyou are that way.
That is the energy you exude,it is what you make available,
it's a space you hold for them.
It's pretty amazing.
Dr. Veronica Motley (17:18):
I try it.
Coupled with a little sense ofhumor, you got to have humor.
Sara Best (17:22):
Yeah, you're good at that too.
Dr. Veronica Motley (17:24):
You have to laugh because if you don't
you'll just.
You can lose it sometimes, butthere's a lot of power in
laughing together.
Sara Best (17:32):
Absolutely, and I think you know laughing is like
inner jogging.
If you want to run a marathon,just you know.
Tell some good, clean jokes orgo watch a comedy.
It is good for stopping thatstress response.
Let me harken back to.
You mentioned the dance deal atSouthview High School, the kids
raising money.
That makes me think aboutservice and I also know I guess
(17:53):
in addition to your obligatoryservices services because of the
role you hold you engage inother acts of service and other
ways in the community.
I know that's important to you.
I also think it rounds out thefulfillment for you.
Some people might be missingthat and they don't know they're
missing.
So I thought it would be goodto hear a little bit about what
(18:15):
you've gotten involved in, whyand just what service means to
you in your leadership.
Dr. Veronica Motley (18:21):
Well, I definitely strive to be a
servant leader.
I try to give more and,especially as I'm approaching
the sunset of my career, I thinkit even means more to me to
give back and to help others andto mentor and, in some
instances, even sponsorindividuals who aspire to be in
(18:42):
administration or otherleadership roles.
When I look at opportunities inour community, I enjoy engaging
with the public.
I really do, and I will tellyou that there could be a lot I
could show up at something 24hours a day because of my
position, right, but I reallytry to partner with agencies and
organizations that cancontribute to the growth and
(19:03):
development of our studentswithin our district.
I try to network for thepurpose of not only it's a
learning opportunity for ourstudents, but also an
opportunity for our communitymembers, our business owners, to
come see what we are workingwith, what's in the pipeline,
the employees in the pipeline,if you will, before they cross
the stage, and to learn moreabout what education looks like
(19:26):
today so many times we refer to.
Well, when I was in school andI will tell you, we didn't have
Chromebooks when I was we stillhad sleep chalkboards, I believe
, Sara.
Wow, but it's important to usethose engagement opportunities
for me to share the great thingsthat are happening in our
school buildings and to promoteour students, in addition to
(19:48):
maybe having an opportunity forsome member of chamber to come
and say I need some studentsthat are interested in, or need
some, community service hours.
What a great win-win situation.
So I do try to pick things thatare partnership related and then
I have some passion projects ofmy own.
I love animals I have, you know, my doggy named Cricket and
(20:12):
things I can do to support thehumane society.
That speaks to my personalheart.
I'm also actively, very heavilyinvolved in supporting women in
leadership and helping themfind opportunities to meet their
professional goals and helpingthem to understand about
wholeness in life and notbalance.
(20:32):
Nice that you can still moveforward, maybe not as rapidly as
you thought, or maybe you'restaying at home and raising
children, and that's okay, butthat's leadership.
And what other things can youdo?
That's just one of my passionprojects, for sure, and how I
discern how I will utilize mytime, not only for my
(20:53):
professional world, butsometimes my personal and
professional world.
Sara Best (21:02):
And I think I would take away from what you talked
about, the networking andrelationship to serving or
connecting, buildingpartnerships that would support
education and the students andthe community.
I think companies can do thesame thing.
Oh, absolutely it doesn'tmatter if we manufacture cans,
or I'm not thinking of a goodexample widgets yeah, it doesn't
(21:23):
matter the product, right,right.
Dr. Veronica Motley (21:26):
It's the mindset, the behaviors and the
investment and the people aroundwho are making the product and
investing in the product.
It's our community.
I'm so fortunate and privilegedto have the opportunity and
investing in the product it'sour community.
I'm so fortunate and privilegedto have the opportunity to be
in Sylvania.
I truly feel like I serve andit's important that we continue
to look at leadership becauseyou're giving more.
(21:50):
It's an outpouring of oneself,it is Invest in others and
really it's perpetuatingleadership and the growth
mindset and investing in othersand being a mentor for others.
It just perpetuates the cycle.
It just allows us to grow andbe better human beings.
That helps us personally andprofessionally.
Sara Best (22:09):
I would submit too that the person who benefits the
most it may seem daunting or alot of work or extra work you
know, hey, I'm just a manager onthe shop floor, or I'm just,
you know, a CFO, or I don't havetime for that.
No, the person who's going tobenefit greatly from investment
in service like that is theindividual.
Maybe people aren't aware,They've never really had the
(22:34):
opportunity to give of theirtime, but I really think this is
a missing element of we'll callit burnout treatment, maybe
even burnout prevention.
It's a place where we haveagency to do something that's
good for others, but essentiallyit's really good for us, for
our heart, for our psyche, thewhole bit.
Dr. Veronica Motley (22:51):
It fills your spirit.
You know, a four-letter wordthat I don't like is "just Just
yeah, I'm just a manager, I'mjust a teacher, I'm just a mom,
I'm just.
You hear that all the time.
Yes, it's a four-letter word,you're minimizing your own value
and I sometimes find, truly, Igo to a lot of evening events,
(23:14):
it's part of my job, theobligation part, but Truly I go
to a lot of evening events, it'spart of my job, the obligation
part.
But you know, there's nogreater feeling.
I may be dragging my knuckleswhen I get there, but when I go
(23:34):
to an orchestra concert, by timeI'm oboe and being able to be
part of that growth, it's that Ishow up with knuckles dragging,
but by the time I listen to theorchestra or see a musical, my
bucket is filled.
Sara Best (23:47):
That's so good.
This would probably be a goodtime to say in our show notes.
Dr.
Motley, we'll have your contactinformation and I just want to
make a serious plug.
You speak at a lot ofconferences.
You speak at national events.
I've shared the stage with youbut more than anything, I just
love the way you put informationtogether.
(24:09):
So I want to say to ourlisteners that may have need of
an engaging, motivating speaker,especially a woman who's found
success and has great, amazingtips for leaders.
I think they should reach outand give you a call you
available for that.
Dr. Veronica Motley (24:25):
Yes, that would be fantastic.
I would like to share what I'velearned from others so I can
continue to invest and pour intoothers, because that's what
makes it better at what we do.
Everybody benefits.
Sara Best (24:36):
I would love that.
Okay good, and you're humble,as always.
I see that.
I hear that.
It's amazing.
I would love to know.
I think our listeners wouldlove to know have you ever
worked for a Boss hole or been aBoss hole yourself?
Dr. Veronica Motley (24:51):
Yes, and a little bit on the second yes,
okay, yes and yes, yes, Idefinitely worked for a Boss
hole and it was tough, I thinkwhen I realized Boss holes can
dismantle you emotionally andmentally and have you question
your value and worth andcontribution.
(25:11):
Yes, they're suffocating andyou can wallow in it.
Or you can decide to say I needto take control and I need to
do something different and Ineed to leave and I need to take
a leap in faith, bet on myselfand I need to move on, and
that's okay.
It's scary, it is absolutelyterrifying, yeah, but leaders
(25:35):
leap, leaders try, leaders takerisk.
Leaders understand that failureis not failure.
It's a lesson in what not to doand you use it as a lesson.
Then you move on and try again,so you don't give up.
But I definitely worked for aBoss hole.
That short and sweet.
I was right-hand person ofsupport for several years.
(25:56):
There was a younger newemployee that came into the
organization, probably half myage and was a male, did not have
my credentials, but all of asudden was propelled to the top
of the food chain, if you willLike.
My voice was just silenced.
It was all of a sudden like Ididn't know what I was talking
(26:17):
about, I would have hissy fitsthrown at me.
At one point I had a meetingwith this individual and I said
I don't understand this energy,like I couldn't get around it
anymore, like I don't understandwhere this energy is coming
from.
We've been fine until the last,like what's going on, and you
know, I never got a clear answer.
(26:37):
Never got a clear answer.
But the one answer I did getit's time, yeah, it's time.
So that was motivating and forme myself, being a boss, whole
early on in my leadership career, I was very I'm driven.
I'm just, by nature, I'm taskoriented.
Yes, which you know.
(26:58):
Yes, I get caught up in thetask and ignore the people, yeah
, and I will accomplish a task,I will get it done.
But what I realized with myprofessional maturity at least
that's what I would like to callit that people are more
important than the task.
If you invest in people,inspire them again, allow them
to have a level of trust withinyou, the task can be completed,
(27:20):
and be completed collectively,and often comes out with a
better outcome than if youisolate everybody.
Individuals, with respect, gowith positive intent and
sometimes that's hard, but youhave to assume positive intent,
and early on in my career I wasa just do what I say type of gal
(27:42):
, don't ask questions.
Yes, I know better, and now andagain, nearing the sunset of my
career, I ask more questionsnow than I ever have.
Sara Best (27:52):
It highlights the idea that no one intends to be a
Boss hole.
We come into awareness of howour natural drives may advance
the ball for some people andcreate challenge for others.
I mean for the task-focusedpeople that worked with you or
for you they probably love thatyou were task-focused.
For the other people thatneeded a little more
(28:13):
relationship, focus or empathy,you quickly realized that you
know you got to dial up thatextroversion and that focus
outside just the work.
But I do think that comes fromexperience, it's emotional
intelligence, it's all that goodstuff and willing to reflect
that.
Dr. Veronica Motley (28:30):
And no, I'm not that emotional gal, I'm
just, I'm not wired that way.
Right Part of it is having thereflection to know I'm not and
sometimes having to go, oops, Ineed to back up.
Okay, team, let's talk.
You know.
Or circling back to someonesaying you know, yesterday we
talked and I was caught up in myown world.
(28:52):
I'm so sorry.
I could tell you were having amoment, what's going on and
having that ability.
But again, that's 35 years intothe game and it took me a while
to get there.
Sara Best (29:05):
You know I can relate to that.
Holy cow.
Well, in the world ofPredictive Index we know that
you are an individualist.
That's a reference profile.
There are 17 differentreference profiles but your
pattern is marked by higherdominance, very much a task
focus.
You love a challenge, you'reforward-facing and moving.
You move at afaster-than-average pace, but
(29:27):
you do like to know.
You have a sense of yourpatience factor is kind of a
combination of let'sconsistently do this well and
let's change it up.
It's kind of right there in themiddle and you're highly
flexible.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent ways that things can
happen.
That's an asset too.
You don't need certainty.
You can live with ambiguityKind of a contrast, isn't it
(29:48):
from?
I need to know and I can livein ambiguity and I can live in
ambiguity.
But to me, what that suggests isyou recognize that and you've
said this throughout our talktoday it's not about you.
What you're able to accomplishis because of the dynamic you're
able to create with others andthe relationship, the
partnership.
(30:08):
So for any person who's aleader, especially a leader with
high dominance, yes, there aretimes when you take decisive
action, when you say this iswhat we're going to do, but
there's always going to be aneed to bring people in.
So you've mastered this idea ofengaging, building the
relationship, getting the buy-into just make better decisions.
(30:29):
I think what you said is theoutcome probably ended up better
than maybe what I thought.
Dr. Veronica Motley (30:34):
Absolutely.
And it's also knowing what youdon't know and being able to say
what you don't know.
And I also to your point.
I think one of thecharacteristics of being an
individualist as well is I kickthe status quo?
Yes, you do.
I can't do the status quo.
So sometimes I'm seen as acatalyst or a change agent, but
(30:55):
I really do try hard not to goin and blow it up.
I try to ask questions and tellme the history and what's the
rationale and how did we gethere.
But in the same token, it's thechameleon being able to know
what, to ebb and flow, yes,being able to say I can have a
little risk factor, but I knowwhere I'm going.
Being able to say I can have alittle risk factor, but I know
(31:16):
where I'm going and I do alittle serpentining to get there
, but I am more of a straightline person.
But again, that's thatreflection and maturity and
bringing folks in.
And I think specifically to myrole and for anyone who changes
from one company to another, youknow you have to go into the
new company and understand theculture, yes, and the energy and
(31:36):
the organizational chart andthe social network.
And I had to take time to dothat because I was new to
Sylvania.
I'm from Northeast Ohio, I amhere during COVID.
It was hard to createrelationships when you're on a
computer screen with 12 one-inchsquares around the screen and
develop those relationships.
(31:58):
But in time it happenedorganically and I'm so happy
that it did.
Sara Best (32:03):
Not an easy time to engage as the chief leader of a
school district when everythingclosed down.
Absolutely.
You're the kind of person, Dr.
Motley, who likes to upend thestatus quo, because things can
always be better.
They can always be made betterand stronger.
I was talking with a CEO earliertoday about what we call the
(32:23):
change challengers, championsand catalysts, and this is
research that my partner, John,has done using the Predictive
Index, just recognizing thatpeople fall into different
categories.
You know there's champions ofchange.
You'd be one of those.
You definitely see theopportunity and the possibility
all the time.
And there are challengers ofchange, which actually is about
(32:45):
62.8% of the population.
Sorry, John, if I got thatnumber wrong.
That's a lot of people.
And then the third group, thecatalysts.
You know they probably can getbehind a change if there's a
healthy plan and an appropriatetimeline.
And for both groups thechallengers and the catalysts
(33:06):
the need for information andsome time to get our head around
it makes so much sense.
I think we intuitively know thisabout people, how they're very
different about change.
But isn't it kind of nice as aleader to recognize a lot of
people aren't like me?
So because I embrace changedoesn't mean change can't happen
because these people don'tsupport it.
(33:27):
It just means that I need tosolicit their feedback, their
buy-in.
Maybe the questions I need toask should come from them, or
the questions I need to answerif you will.
Certainly there's a lot ofgreat work out there about
change management and helpingpeople navigate what we call the
change curve.
For you, you're just talkingabout adaptation.
(33:48):
You, as a leader, haveidentified a way where you need
to demonstrate adaptation and dowhat does not come naturally
for you for the good of thestaff, the team and the
enterprise, and I think that'spowerful.
Dr. Veronica Motley (34:03):
I would agree and to share that or to
co-sign on your thinking.
You know, when I came fromNortheast Ohio that's where my
career has been the biggestdifference has been I was 30
years in Northeast Ohio I didn'thave a whole narrative behind
purpose and rationale.
People kind of said she knowswhat she's doing, she's been
(34:24):
around, we know her work, we'regood.
If she says it's good, then Italk to another entity and it's
like but we don't really knowyou, we're not comfortable with
you.
How do we know you're doing theright thing?
You're talking about continuousimprovement and status quo.
Some folks would say you're justinsatiable, you just want to
keep going right.
(34:45):
You're insatiable.
I'm like no, I'm not alwaysmaking it better.
If we're good, we can be great.
If we're great, we can besuperb.
People might say that'sinsatiable.
But as a leader, and especiallyas a leader of an organization
that works with children, wecannot afford to rest on our
laurels because we're preparingthem for a world that we don't
(35:06):
even know what their employmentpossibilities will be.
Absolutely, but that's for anyleadership piece.
But I like what you said aboutthe challengers and the other
person 62% were 62%.
Sara Best (35:19):
The challengers.
Then we have the champions.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:22):
Champions.
Sara Best (35:22):
Y ep and the catalysts.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:24):
Yeah, I'm definitely the champion
personality, for sure.
Sara Best (35:28):
Me and you both.
Ask my poor husband, who's hadto paint the walls in my house
like 800 times.
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:37):
It's time for a change because I feel like
it.
I can totally relate.
I can totally relate to that.
Sara Best (35:41):
Oh, Dr.
Motley.
So, as we wrap up here, what'snext for you?
What are you looking forward to?
We're kind of inching towardthe end of the school year.
It's coming up quickly.
What's on the horizon for you?
Dr. Veronica Motley (35:52):
Well, outside of making it through to
the end of the school year,which is a big moment, I mean,
graduation is around the corner.
It's in June.
That's like the Super Bowl forus at this level and in
education.
I'm really excited about that.
For those who may not know, Ihave been granted an opportunity
with an extension in mycontract, but I'm wrapping up in
(36:14):
July of '26.
Okay, wow, okay, another year,yeah, another year, but a long
time to still make some thingshappen that are great for our
kids and our community.
I still want to continue towork in education, so
professionally and personally.
I'm not done yet.
I'm not done yet.
I'm not done yet.
(36:34):
I would like to revisit, maybegoing back and teaching at the
college level, something that'sa little less demanding, and the
superintendent's position withthe evening activities.
Again, still love what I do, todial it back a little bit,
maybe do some traveling, but Ipromise, for those who are
listening and tuning in topodcast, I'm not counting the
(36:56):
days, I'm making the days countand I'm not done yet.
So that's the other thing.
It's looking forward to what'snext, although it hasn't been
perfectly defined.
We'll see what happens, but I'mexcited about the future.
Sara Best (37:08):
Wow, it is exciting to hear that, and we're grateful
that you would come and shareyour experience, strength and
hope with our listeners, becausethat's a lot of what this was
today.
We wish you all the best andwe'll check in with you again.
We'll see you next time on theBossh ole Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the
Bossh ole Chronicles.
It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Bossh
ole story that you want to sharewith the Bossh ole
Transformation Nation, justreach out.
You can email us atmystory@thebossholechronicles.
com.
Again,mystory@thebossholechronicles.
com, we'll see you next time.
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