April 29, 2025 • 21 mins
Discover the fascinating world of Controller managers in this deep dive into one of the most precision-focused reference profiles. Making up 3.99% of the population, Controllers bring exceptional value through their commitment to accuracy, structure, and results, making them essential players in organizational success.
Click HERE for a short video about the Controller.
Click HERE to get your very own Reference Profile.
Related TBC Episodes:
- The Collaborator Manager
- The Operator Manager
- The Promoter Manager
- The Altruist Manager
- The Strategist Manager
- The Guardian Manager
- The Specialist Manager
- The Maverick Manager
- The Artisan Manager
- The Persuader Manager
- The Captain Manager
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We use The Predictive Index as our analytics platform so you know it's validated and reliable. Your Reference Profile informs you of your needs, behaviors, and the nuances of what we call your Behavioral DNA. It also explains your work style, your strengths, and even the common traps in which you may find yourself. It's a great tool to share with friends, family, and co-workers.
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Visit us at www.realgoodventures.com. We are a Talent Optimization consultancy specializing in people and business execution analytics. Real Good Ventures was founded by Sara Best and John Broer who are both Certified Talent Optimization Consultants with over 50 years of combined consulting and organizational performance experience. Sara is also certified in EQi 2.0. RGV is also a Certified Partner of Line-of-Sight, a powerful organizational health and execution platform. RGV is known for its work in leadership development, executive coaching, and what we call organizational rebuild where we bring all our tools together to diagnose an organization's present state and how to grow toward a stronger future state.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Broer (00:10):
I just happen to know that a number of our
listeners out there in The Bosshole Transformation Nation have
been waiting for this episode ofour reference profile manager
series.
I've actually gotten emails andrequests for this one.
It's the controller referenceprofile, and the controller is
in the group of referenceprofiles that we refer to as
(00:34):
results and discipline.
These are the analyzers, thestrategists, the scholars and
the controllers, and we'vealready done a few of those
reference profiles.
We have a few more to do, butthe controller unique one all
about getting things done andgetting them done accurately.
And, of course, this week I amjoined by my good friend and
(00:57):
business partner, an amazinghuman, Sara Best.
So let's learn about thecontroller reference profile.
And for those of you that don'tknow your reference profile, go
into the show notes and youwill see a link where you can
find out your reference profileand we will send you your one
page description.
Incredibly helpful.
Understand your behavioral DNA.
Let's jump in.
(01:18):
The Bossh ole Chronicles arebrought to you by Real Good
Ventures, a talent optimizationfirm helping organizations
diagnose their most criticalpeople and execution issues with
world-class analytics.
Make sure to check out all theresources in the show notes and
(01:38):
be sure to follow us and shareyour feedback.
Enjoy today's episode.
Your feedback.
Enjoy today's episode.
We're back with anotherinstallment of our reference
profile series Different kindsof managers, different reference
profiles and Sara, which oneare we going to talk about today
?
Sara Best (01:57):
John, today we talk about the controller.
Let me tell you about thecontroller.
The controller is adetail-oriented and conservative
individual with a preferencefor high quality and technical
expertise.
Dare I say sincere, factual,detailed and cautious.
John Broer (02:16):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And you know, what I think isreally interesting about that is
we were just before we hitrecord, were just before we hit
record.
I specifically, I mean I'veworked with and have in my
circle about four or fivecontrollers and there is, I mean
, I'm telling you, there it'sit's all about, and they're in
the results and discipline groupof the competing values matrix
(02:36):
and it is all about gettingstuff done and let's move
forward and get things done.
I I know that I've had a fewcontrollers say I don't like
that term, I don't like the termcontroller, and it's not about
somebody's need to hold dominionover other people.
This is about really moving allthe levers at the right time.
So let me share with you whatdoes the average behavioral
(02:59):
pattern look like?
Controllers typically have-their highest factor tends to be
formality, the drive to conformto rules and structure,
followed by dominance.
So dominance and formality areon the right side of the
midpoint, but the formality ishigher than the dominance which
creates, in the world of PI, a Dover A factor combination,
(03:19):
which means they tend to becautious with risk, and that
makes a lot of sense.
Based on the term, there arelower factors, lower in
extroversion, which means theytend to be cautious with risk,
and that makes a lot of sensebased on the term.
There are lower factors, lowerin extroversion, which means
they tend to be moreintrospective, and lower
patience, which means they liketo move at a fast pace.
So cautious with risk,proactive, task-focused, and
let's get moving.
(03:40):
So what do they need?
Because we always talk aboutdrives, needs and behaviors.
So the needs are like autonomyand problem solving, room for
introspection don't rush me, letme think about it.
Opportunities to work at a fastpace and understanding of rules
and regulations.
That's sometimes be seen asautonomous, dare, I say.
(04:09):
Somebody might say aloof, thatthey want to work by themselves,
necessarily, very matter offact, and engage people when
it's necessary to move thingsforward can be very impatient
and really precise, patient andreally precise.
So the you know, if you wantsomething to get done and you
want it to get done correctly,then your controllers are going
(04:30):
to really help you out with that.
So that's, that's more aroundthe drives, needs and behaviors.
So let's talk about theirsignature work styles, Sara,
what, what can we expect to seefrom controllers and
specifically controller managers?
Sara Best (04:43):
Yeah, well, as they communicate, John, controllers
will likely be very factual,straightforward no fluffy stuff,
no warm and fuzzy, they think,before they speak.
John Broer (04:53):
So I wonder what that's like.
Sorry, right, yeah.
Sara Best (04:59):
Having never experienced that they are not
keen to delegate details and anauthority.
potentially there's a tightdelegation a very controlled way
to delegate and I think theyfollow up pretty closely.
They tend to be a littlecritical too.
Controllers are good atspotting, you know, in process
(05:20):
and workflow what's in place andwhat's not in place.
As far as making decisions, thecontroller manager is pretty
firm and they go by the bookwhen making decisions.
Like not a lot of flexibilitythere, and they do offer, though
, some ingenuity in problemsolving, especially in areas
where they have like a strongbriefcase or their own area of
(05:40):
specialty.
Lastly, John, work styles, interms of how they take action
and how comfortable they arewith risk.
They very much avoid risk.
Risk is a challenge.
They're cautious about risk.
There's a lot of work andeffort directed toward
mitigating risk and they'regoing to be working on the very
conservative side ofdecision-making and risk.
John Broer (06:15):
Interesting.
Okay, well, that makes totalsense, and I was just looking up
Working on the veryconservative side of decision
making and risk.
0.99% of people out there fallinto the controller reference
profile pattern.
That really helps us understand, Sara, a bit more about their
strengths and their common traps.
So if we're thinking about amanager, that is, a controller,
strengths are like what we liketo say superpowers.
(06:37):
They are really good atbuilding structure and they
respect the plan and theyrespect the plan and they
respect the plan to the degreethat I think others are expected
to follow the plan, which is abit of a challenge for me and I
know you and I share that incommon.
They are good at anticipatingproblems.
They can see the horizon andwhat is building up, and I think
(06:59):
that that is a uniquecharacteristic in controllers
also very helpful, and they'revery proactive and
results-oriented.
So I think there's a misnomerthat their focus on accuracy may
slow them up, and that is notthe case at all.
They will move, but they willmove very effectively and things
will be done accurately andthey will abide by the rules, if
(07:22):
you will.
So the common traps, forexample this also has the other
side of the coin, or there's theother side of the coin.
As you said, they havedifficulty delegating authority,
giving up that control, and weall know what that's like.
We have a number of referenceprofiles that are like that.
They may not have difficultydelegating details, but the
authority is tough Resistance tochange if it feels like it's
(07:46):
moving too quickly, which makestotal sense and likely to feel
uncomfortable in ambiguoussituations.
Let's face it, people can bevery ambiguous.
I think that managers that arethat have the controller
(08:10):
reference profile can find somereal frustration in that.
So what's the best way to workwith them, Sara?
Sara Best (08:15):
Yeah, well, certainly you want to give controllers
specifics.
They have high regard andrespect for the established
rules, values.
The playbook you know how it'ssupposed to work, so the
specifics need to be provided.
Like what is that playbook?
How do we succeed here?
What does success look like?
And give them the opportunityto develop the expertise,
(08:39):
because they want to talk from aplace of expertise.
Controllers like to do thingsby the book, as we said.
So the authority, the line ofauthority and responsibility
also should not be ambiguous.
It should be very clear anddon't waste their time.
Stay on track.
John Broer (08:56):
Start the meetings on time.
Sara Best (08:58):
They're not going to be available for a lot of small
talk.
It's not that they don't likepeople they do, in fact.
They can be super friendly andvery thoughtful, but they're
more reserved and they have veryhigh standards.
So we need to respect theirtime and be prepared to talk
about the things that are on ouragenda, because they run a
(09:18):
pretty tight ship.
John Broer (09:20):
For sure.
Speaking of which, if I cangive an example of a controller
manager, I was in a meeting onetime and this is an organization
that used PI and these werethese daily project meetings and
it was a very specific, therewas a very specific agenda.
You came in, you better beready.
If you walk in there and youare not ready, he will skip you.
(09:49):
I mean, if you hesitate in anyway.
And one time, one time, we werein there, surprise, surprise, a
couple of us were screwing offa little bit, just kind of
joking, and we were just sittingdown.
It was just sort of gettingcasual and the conversation was
not coming back to the agendaand he yelled focus.
I mean like yelled focus.
And I mean got everybody'sattention.
It was like okay, okay, good,we'll settle down.
And after a while he kind of herealized he was taking himself
(10:13):
a bit too serious.
But we realized there weretimes when there was no straying
from the agenda and you betterbe ready and that can be a
little intimidating, that can bea little scary for direct
reports.
So I you know for those of youout there, the managers, that
you are the control, you havethe controller reference profile
.
Just you know, embrace that andunderstand how that can be
(10:37):
interpreted or received by thosearound you.
So let's say we had acontroller on our team, sarah,
what's a good way to motivatethem and recognize them?
What would you recommend?
Sara Best (10:50):
Keeping in mind that they're more private and
introspective.
Private recognition for theirskill and expertise would be
probably the most effective wayto recognize and motivate a
controller, because they spend alot of time trying to get it
right.
John Broer (11:07):
Okay.
Sara Best (11:07):
Want to be acknowledged privately, not
publicly, for getting it right.
I would say independence andautonomy, so giving them that
trust and that autonomy, thatoversight of their defined area
of responsibility, actuallyseeing them as the expert and
trusting them as the expert.
And to this, John, you and Ialways like to say if you can't
do that, you probably don't havethe right person in the role.
(11:28):
We would imagine that theywould be skilled and competent
to do their job and thereforeshould be acknowledged for that.
And then, lastly, they do liketo spend a lot of plates, they
move quickly, they can managemultiple tasks.
So another way to motivate andrecognize is to assign a variety
of responsibilities, but watchout for overload or burnout,
(11:51):
because that could happen prettyeasily.
John Broer (11:53):
For sure, for sure.
Well, and so let me share alittle bit about how we provide
direction and feedback tocontrollers.
Exceedingly clear expectationsand definition of
responsibilities.
If you're vague or there's justtoo much gray area, it will
frustrate them.
Give assurance of support andrealize they may be sensitive to
criticism and I like how youput this, Sara.
(12:15):
Because they are higher intheir formality, that tends to
be their highest drive.
Higher in their formality, thattends to be their highest drive
.
That criticism, if itcriticizes or calls into
question the accuracy or thequality of their work, that
really cuts to the bone for them.
Sara Best (12:29):
Yes, it does.
John Broer (12:34):
And then when you're having a conversation, just get
to the point.
Just don't- not a lot of fluff.
Quit lathering on.
Sara Best (12:41):
Tell me, get to the point.
I've heard people actually likesay that under their breath in
meetings that we've observed, orI see them take their hand and
kind of do the rolling like geton with it kind of thing with
their hand, right, right, yeah,yeah, it's for real, it's for
real, yeah.
John Broer (12:55):
Last couple of things.
Let me share a few items ondelegation and then perhaps you
can give us some insight abouthow to coach controllers.
Delegating.
Don't delegate work wherethere's a lot of people involved
and the lines of responsibilityare blurred.
That does not mean controllersdon't like other humans and
people, but they're wired fortask action and to manage risk.
(13:18):
So if there are a lot of peopleand it's unclear, I think they
will be frustrated.
And then do delegate work thatis structured but varied to your
point.
Spin some plates or they got alot of balls to juggle and think
different tasks to work on, butguidelines to follow.
Okay, give them a roadmap.
This is where I need you to goand these are the things you'll
(13:39):
be working on, and set them offand let them rock and roll.
Sara Best (13:43):
I have a good example of the don't delegate where
there's a lot of people involvedor where the lines of
responsibility or even ownershipor authority are not clear.
What if I was an organizationthat needed a guide, like a
policy procedure guidebook, forsome element of operations, and
(14:07):
I'm a controller put in chargeof that project?
But I now have to gatherinsight and information from,
say, I don't know, 25 locations.
John Broer (14:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Sara Best (14:16):
And there's nothing ever been done like this before.
There's no standard.
And there's no there's nothingever been done like this before
there's no standard.
So we sort of fling thecontroller out there and say
whip this bad boy up and gatherthis data, because there would
be no runway, people would nothave advanced notice about what
information they're supposed toprovide.
Like this- this person wouldhave to build this whole
(14:38):
procedure and process from theground up to do it right and it
would take time.
So it would be very frustratingbecause there would not be
clarity.
And is the person authorized?
Do they have ownership of this?
Can they direct people to givethem what they need, etc.
John Broer (14:55):
Well and I think that's a really excellent point
that may also give you somedirection about partnering them
with somebody that perhaps is abit more comfortable with
ambiguity.
So, for example, you and I,Persuader, Captain, Maverick, or
even Adventurer paired with aController those two right there
(15:16):
, when you think about wherethey fall on our what we call a
competing values matrix, theycreate what's called a
pathfinding pair.
So I mean, if you wantsomething done but also don't
want to sort of throw them outthere with a lot of open ends
and loose threads, maybepartnering them with somebody
that could be really powerful, Icould see that.
(15:36):
I could see that working.
Absolutely.
Well, how do we coach them?
What's some suggestions?
Sara Best (15:41):
Well, let's just remind our listeners that
coaching is very different thanmanaging.
I think we say that often,although managers find
themselves and supervisors inthe coaching role, as they
should, keeping in mind thatcoaching conversations are
really more about askingquestions versus giving answers,
directing, telling people howto fix a problem, et cetera.
(16:01):
So help them become morecomfortable with risk when
you're coaching them by givingthem small opportunities to take
chances.
Them become more comfortablewith risk when you're coaching
them by giving them smallopportunities to take chances.
And I think it makes sense tosay, given that you're not very
comfortable with risk, let'sdetermine which of these
responsibilities come with highrisk, which come with very, very
(16:21):
low risk.
Let's practice in the low riskareas making some decisions on
your own and being able topractice failing, for example.
John Broer (16:31):
And fail safely.
Sara Best (16:32):
And fail safely.
Like nothing really bad isgoing to happen to you.
This is how we learn.
John Broer (16:36):
Good.
Sara Best (16:37):
The other way we can coach is to play to their
strengths, having them identifythe strategies they use to
execute effectively and likewhat's working.
Let's share that with the restof the team.
So there's there's anefficiency and a productivity.
That happens for a controller.
Let's share that.
And lastly, help them definethe rules and standards and
(16:57):
responsibilities they shouldfollow when there's high
ambiguity.
So we got to help them buildclarity, clarity our favorite
word.
We have to help them build thatwhen, for example, we can't
change the fact that there's alot of unknown about a market or
a product, or the geopoliticalscope, any of that.
(17:19):
So I think it's just abouthelping them define what the
rules are.
John Broer (17:24):
I could see a controller whether it's a direct
report or a managerno-transcript and I think you
(17:55):
just need to.
I think these are great pointsthat feedback, that coaching,
those opportunities just tosupport them.
They'll appreciate it.
But if you frame it in such away that a controller would hear
it, the right way, way can bevery powerful.
I could see this being justsomebody who is a great partner
and just blowing the doors off,just getting stuff done.
Sara Best (18:18):
Well, they're essential to quality assurance.
The controller pattern is notonly a loyal champion for the
cause, they're bringing in ahigh standard and a high level
of excellence.
They can kind of capture thecode.
They're the ones who can masterthe capturing of the protocol
and the procedure and they canevolve it and grow it.
(18:40):
So I think definitions andrules and responsibilities like,
as long as they know, theplaybook.
The other thing I think aboutJohn is we talk about trust and
autonomy and command and control.
Trust and autonomy for acontroller is a unique and
different thing and I would saywe shouldn't be surprised if a
controlling manager has achallenge with giving trust and
(19:04):
autonomy to direct reports.
John Broer (19:06):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Sara Best (19:07):
There's the unlikelihood of delegating
authority and the detail so Ithink that's something to think
about is, in their area of workand what they're responsible to
oversee, is there some need fora pretty significant adaptation
around giving up control of thedetails, giving up authority?
(19:28):
Or partnering and sharingauthority.
Maybe that's kind of settingthem up to fail.
Their superpowers can beprecisely used in places where
things need to be controlled andmanaged and defined.
So that's just a thought.
John Broer (19:44):
No, that's a good thought.
No, it's an excellent thought.
Well, and for all of our newlisteners out there and we're
getting new listeners all thetime if you don't know what your
reference profile is, go intothe show notes.
There's a link and you cancomplete the behavioral
assessment.
Take you less than 10 minutesand we'll send you your
reference profile one-pagedescription and you will find
(20:04):
out what your reference profileis, what your superpowers are,
your potential kryptonite.
Gosh.
I think we've done 13 or 14 ofthese.
We're getting close to the endof our reference profile series,
but for every one of these, asthis series continues to build,
all of the episodes are listedin the show notes, and I just
think it's been reallyinteresting and our listeners
(20:26):
would agree.
Sara Best (20:37):
You too, John, appreciate the time today and
everybody out there in the Bosshole Transformation Nation.
We will see you next time.
John Broer (20:44):
Thanks very much for checking out this episode of
the Bossh ole Chronicles.
It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Boss
hole story that you want toshare with the Bossh ole
Transformation Nation, justreach out.
You can email us atmystory@thebossholechronicles.
com.
Again,mystory@thebossholechronicles.
com, we'll see you next time.
I just happen to know that a number of our
listeners out there in The Bosshole Transformation Nation have
been waiting for this episode ofour reference profile manager
series.
I've actually gotten emails andrequests for this one.
It's the controller referenceprofile, and the controller is
in the group of referenceprofiles that we refer to as
(00:34):
results and discipline.
These are the analyzers, thestrategists, the scholars and
the controllers, and we'vealready done a few of those
reference profiles.
We have a few more to do, butthe controller unique one all
about getting things done andgetting them done accurately.
And, of course, this week I amjoined by my good friend and
(00:57):
business partner, an amazinghuman, Sara Best.
So let's learn about thecontroller reference profile.
And for those of you that don'tknow your reference profile, go
into the show notes and youwill see a link where you can
find out your reference profileand we will send you your one
page description.
Incredibly helpful.
Understand your behavioral DNA.
Let's jump in.
(01:18):
The Bossh ole Chronicles arebrought to you by Real Good
Ventures, a talent optimizationfirm helping organizations
diagnose their most criticalpeople and execution issues with
world-class analytics.
Make sure to check out all theresources in the show notes and
(01:38):
be sure to follow us and shareyour feedback.
Enjoy today's episode.
Your feedback.
Enjoy today's episode.
We're back with anotherinstallment of our reference
profile series Different kindsof managers, different reference
profiles and Sara, which oneare we going to talk about today
?
Sara Best (01:57):
John, today we talk about the controller.
Let me tell you about thecontroller.
The controller is adetail-oriented and conservative
individual with a preferencefor high quality and technical
expertise.
Dare I say sincere, factual,detailed and cautious.
John Broer (02:16):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And you know, what I think isreally interesting about that is
we were just before we hitrecord, were just before we hit
record.
I specifically, I mean I'veworked with and have in my
circle about four or fivecontrollers and there is, I mean
, I'm telling you, there it'sit's all about, and they're in
the results and discipline groupof the competing values matrix
(02:36):
and it is all about gettingstuff done and let's move
forward and get things done.
I I know that I've had a fewcontrollers say I don't like
that term, I don't like the termcontroller, and it's not about
somebody's need to hold dominionover other people.
This is about really moving allthe levers at the right time.
So let me share with you whatdoes the average behavioral
(02:59):
pattern look like?
Controllers typically have-their highest factor tends to be
formality, the drive to conformto rules and structure,
followed by dominance.
So dominance and formality areon the right side of the
midpoint, but the formality ishigher than the dominance which
creates, in the world of PI, a Dover A factor combination,
(03:19):
which means they tend to becautious with risk, and that
makes a lot of sense.
Based on the term, there arelower factors, lower in
extroversion, which means theytend to be cautious with risk,
and that makes a lot of sensebased on the term.
There are lower factors, lowerin extroversion, which means
they tend to be moreintrospective, and lower
patience, which means they liketo move at a fast pace.
So cautious with risk,proactive, task-focused, and
let's get moving.
(03:40):
So what do they need?
Because we always talk aboutdrives, needs and behaviors.
So the needs are like autonomyand problem solving, room for
introspection don't rush me, letme think about it.
Opportunities to work at a fastpace and understanding of rules
and regulations.
That's sometimes be seen asautonomous, dare, I say.
(04:09):
Somebody might say aloof, thatthey want to work by themselves,
necessarily, very matter offact, and engage people when
it's necessary to move thingsforward can be very impatient
and really precise, patient andreally precise.
So the you know, if you wantsomething to get done and you
want it to get done correctly,then your controllers are going
(04:30):
to really help you out with that.
So that's, that's more aroundthe drives, needs and behaviors.
So let's talk about theirsignature work styles, Sara,
what, what can we expect to seefrom controllers and
specifically controller managers?
Sara Best (04:43):
Yeah, well, as they communicate, John, controllers
will likely be very factual,straightforward no fluffy stuff,
no warm and fuzzy, they think,before they speak.
John Broer (04:53):
So I wonder what that's like.
Sorry, right, yeah.
Sara Best (04:59):
Having never experienced that they are not
keen to delegate details and anauthority.
potentially there's a tightdelegation a very controlled way
to delegate and I think theyfollow up pretty closely.
They tend to be a littlecritical too.
Controllers are good atspotting, you know, in process
(05:20):
and workflow what's in place andwhat's not in place.
As far as making decisions, thecontroller manager is pretty
firm and they go by the bookwhen making decisions.
Like not a lot of flexibilitythere, and they do offer, though
, some ingenuity in problemsolving, especially in areas
where they have like a strongbriefcase or their own area of
(05:40):
specialty.
Lastly, John, work styles, interms of how they take action
and how comfortable they arewith risk.
They very much avoid risk.
Risk is a challenge.
They're cautious about risk.
There's a lot of work andeffort directed toward
mitigating risk and they'regoing to be working on the very
conservative side ofdecision-making and risk.
John Broer (06:15):
Interesting.
Okay, well, that makes totalsense, and I was just looking up
Working on the veryconservative side of decision
making and risk.
0.99% of people out there fallinto the controller reference
profile pattern.
That really helps us understand, Sara, a bit more about their
strengths and their common traps.
So if we're thinking about amanager, that is, a controller,
strengths are like what we liketo say superpowers.
(06:37):
They are really good atbuilding structure and they
respect the plan and theyrespect the plan and they
respect the plan to the degreethat I think others are expected
to follow the plan, which is abit of a challenge for me and I
know you and I share that incommon.
They are good at anticipatingproblems.
They can see the horizon andwhat is building up, and I think
(06:59):
that that is a uniquecharacteristic in controllers
also very helpful, and they'revery proactive and
results-oriented.
So I think there's a misnomerthat their focus on accuracy may
slow them up, and that is notthe case at all.
They will move, but they willmove very effectively and things
will be done accurately andthey will abide by the rules, if
(07:22):
you will.
So the common traps, forexample this also has the other
side of the coin, or there's theother side of the coin.
As you said, they havedifficulty delegating authority,
giving up that control, and weall know what that's like.
We have a number of referenceprofiles that are like that.
They may not have difficultydelegating details, but the
authority is tough Resistance tochange if it feels like it's
(07:46):
moving too quickly, which makestotal sense and likely to feel
uncomfortable in ambiguoussituations.
Let's face it, people can bevery ambiguous.
I think that managers that arethat have the controller
(08:10):
reference profile can find somereal frustration in that.
So what's the best way to workwith them, Sara?
Sara Best (08:15):
Yeah, well, certainly you want to give controllers
specifics.
They have high regard andrespect for the established
rules, values.
The playbook you know how it'ssupposed to work, so the
specifics need to be provided.
Like what is that playbook?
How do we succeed here?
What does success look like?
And give them the opportunityto develop the expertise,
(08:39):
because they want to talk from aplace of expertise.
Controllers like to do thingsby the book, as we said.
So the authority, the line ofauthority and responsibility
also should not be ambiguous.
It should be very clear anddon't waste their time.
Stay on track.
John Broer (08:56):
Start the meetings on time.
Sara Best (08:58):
They're not going to be available for a lot of small
talk.
It's not that they don't likepeople they do, in fact.
They can be super friendly andvery thoughtful, but they're
more reserved and they have veryhigh standards.
So we need to respect theirtime and be prepared to talk
about the things that are on ouragenda, because they run a
(09:18):
pretty tight ship.
John Broer (09:20):
For sure.
Speaking of which, if I cangive an example of a controller
manager, I was in a meeting onetime and this is an organization
that used PI and these werethese daily project meetings and
it was a very specific, therewas a very specific agenda.
You came in, you better beready.
If you walk in there and youare not ready, he will skip you.
(09:49):
I mean, if you hesitate in anyway.
And one time, one time, we werein there, surprise, surprise, a
couple of us were screwing offa little bit, just kind of
joking, and we were just sittingdown.
It was just sort of gettingcasual and the conversation was
not coming back to the agendaand he yelled focus.
I mean like yelled focus.
And I mean got everybody'sattention.
It was like okay, okay, good,we'll settle down.
And after a while he kind of herealized he was taking himself
(10:13):
a bit too serious.
But we realized there weretimes when there was no straying
from the agenda and you betterbe ready and that can be a
little intimidating, that can bea little scary for direct
reports.
So I you know for those of youout there, the managers, that
you are the control, you havethe controller reference profile
.
Just you know, embrace that andunderstand how that can be
(10:37):
interpreted or received by thosearound you.
So let's say we had acontroller on our team, sarah,
what's a good way to motivatethem and recognize them?
What would you recommend?
Sara Best (10:50):
Keeping in mind that they're more private and
introspective.
Private recognition for theirskill and expertise would be
probably the most effective wayto recognize and motivate a
controller, because they spend alot of time trying to get it
right.
John Broer (11:07):
Okay.
Sara Best (11:07):
Want to be acknowledged privately, not
publicly, for getting it right.
I would say independence andautonomy, so giving them that
trust and that autonomy, thatoversight of their defined area
of responsibility, actuallyseeing them as the expert and
trusting them as the expert.
And to this, John, you and Ialways like to say if you can't
do that, you probably don't havethe right person in the role.
(11:28):
We would imagine that theywould be skilled and competent
to do their job and thereforeshould be acknowledged for that.
And then, lastly, they do liketo spend a lot of plates, they
move quickly, they can managemultiple tasks.
So another way to motivate andrecognize is to assign a variety
of responsibilities, but watchout for overload or burnout,
(11:51):
because that could happen prettyeasily.
John Broer (11:53):
For sure, for sure.
Well, and so let me share alittle bit about how we provide
direction and feedback tocontrollers.
Exceedingly clear expectationsand definition of
responsibilities.
If you're vague or there's justtoo much gray area, it will
frustrate them.
Give assurance of support andrealize they may be sensitive to
criticism and I like how youput this, Sara.
(12:15):
Because they are higher intheir formality, that tends to
be their highest drive.
Higher in their formality, thattends to be their highest drive
.
That criticism, if itcriticizes or calls into
question the accuracy or thequality of their work, that
really cuts to the bone for them.
Sara Best (12:29):
Yes, it does.
John Broer (12:34):
And then when you're having a conversation, just get
to the point.
Just don't- not a lot of fluff.
Quit lathering on.
Sara Best (12:41):
Tell me, get to the point.
I've heard people actually likesay that under their breath in
meetings that we've observed, orI see them take their hand and
kind of do the rolling like geton with it kind of thing with
their hand, right, right, yeah,yeah, it's for real, it's for
real, yeah.
John Broer (12:55):
Last couple of things.
Let me share a few items ondelegation and then perhaps you
can give us some insight abouthow to coach controllers.
Delegating.
Don't delegate work wherethere's a lot of people involved
and the lines of responsibilityare blurred.
That does not mean controllersdon't like other humans and
people, but they're wired fortask action and to manage risk.
(13:18):
So if there are a lot of peopleand it's unclear, I think they
will be frustrated.
And then do delegate work thatis structured but varied to your
point.
Spin some plates or they got alot of balls to juggle and think
different tasks to work on, butguidelines to follow.
Okay, give them a roadmap.
This is where I need you to goand these are the things you'll
(13:39):
be working on, and set them offand let them rock and roll.
Sara Best (13:43):
I have a good example of the don't delegate where
there's a lot of people involvedor where the lines of
responsibility or even ownershipor authority are not clear.
What if I was an organizationthat needed a guide, like a
policy procedure guidebook, forsome element of operations, and
(14:07):
I'm a controller put in chargeof that project?
But I now have to gatherinsight and information from,
say, I don't know, 25 locations.
John Broer (14:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Sara Best (14:16):
And there's nothing ever been done like this before.
There's no standard.
And there's no there's nothingever been done like this before
there's no standard.
So we sort of fling thecontroller out there and say
whip this bad boy up and gatherthis data, because there would
be no runway, people would nothave advanced notice about what
information they're supposed toprovide.
Like this- this person wouldhave to build this whole
(14:38):
procedure and process from theground up to do it right and it
would take time.
So it would be very frustratingbecause there would not be
clarity.
And is the person authorized?
Do they have ownership of this?
Can they direct people to givethem what they need, etc.
John Broer (14:55):
Well and I think that's a really excellent point
that may also give you somedirection about partnering them
with somebody that perhaps is abit more comfortable with
ambiguity.
So, for example, you and I,Persuader, Captain, Maverick, or
even Adventurer paired with aController those two right there
(15:16):
, when you think about wherethey fall on our what we call a
competing values matrix, theycreate what's called a
pathfinding pair.
So I mean, if you wantsomething done but also don't
want to sort of throw them outthere with a lot of open ends
and loose threads, maybepartnering them with somebody
that could be really powerful, Icould see that.
(15:36):
I could see that working.
Absolutely.
Well, how do we coach them?
What's some suggestions?
Sara Best (15:41):
Well, let's just remind our listeners that
coaching is very different thanmanaging.
I think we say that often,although managers find
themselves and supervisors inthe coaching role, as they
should, keeping in mind thatcoaching conversations are
really more about askingquestions versus giving answers,
directing, telling people howto fix a problem, et cetera.
(16:01):
So help them become morecomfortable with risk when
you're coaching them by givingthem small opportunities to take
chances.
Them become more comfortablewith risk when you're coaching
them by giving them smallopportunities to take chances.
And I think it makes sense tosay, given that you're not very
comfortable with risk, let'sdetermine which of these
responsibilities come with highrisk, which come with very, very
(16:21):
low risk.
Let's practice in the low riskareas making some decisions on
your own and being able topractice failing, for example.
John Broer (16:31):
And fail safely.
Sara Best (16:32):
And fail safely.
Like nothing really bad isgoing to happen to you.
This is how we learn.
John Broer (16:36):
Good.
Sara Best (16:37):
The other way we can coach is to play to their
strengths, having them identifythe strategies they use to
execute effectively and likewhat's working.
Let's share that with the restof the team.
So there's there's anefficiency and a productivity.
That happens for a controller.
Let's share that.
And lastly, help them definethe rules and standards and
(16:57):
responsibilities they shouldfollow when there's high
ambiguity.
So we got to help them buildclarity, clarity our favorite
word.
We have to help them build thatwhen, for example, we can't
change the fact that there's alot of unknown about a market or
a product, or the geopoliticalscope, any of that.
(17:19):
So I think it's just abouthelping them define what the
rules are.
John Broer (17:24):
I could see a controller whether it's a direct
report or a managerno-transcript and I think you
(17:55):
just need to.
I think these are great pointsthat feedback, that coaching,
those opportunities just tosupport them.
They'll appreciate it.
But if you frame it in such away that a controller would hear
it, the right way, way can bevery powerful.
I could see this being justsomebody who is a great partner
and just blowing the doors off,just getting stuff done.
Sara Best (18:18):
Well, they're essential to quality assurance.
The controller pattern is notonly a loyal champion for the
cause, they're bringing in ahigh standard and a high level
of excellence.
They can kind of capture thecode.
They're the ones who can masterthe capturing of the protocol
and the procedure and they canevolve it and grow it.
(18:40):
So I think definitions andrules and responsibilities like,
as long as they know, theplaybook.
The other thing I think aboutJohn is we talk about trust and
autonomy and command and control.
Trust and autonomy for acontroller is a unique and
different thing and I would saywe shouldn't be surprised if a
controlling manager has achallenge with giving trust and
(19:04):
autonomy to direct reports.
John Broer (19:06):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Sara Best (19:07):
There's the unlikelihood of delegating
authority and the detail so Ithink that's something to think
about is, in their area of workand what they're responsible to
oversee, is there some need fora pretty significant adaptation
around giving up control of thedetails, giving up authority?
(19:28):
Or partnering and sharingauthority.
Maybe that's kind of settingthem up to fail.
Their superpowers can beprecisely used in places where
things need to be controlled andmanaged and defined.
So that's just a thought.
John Broer (19:44):
No, that's a good thought.
No, it's an excellent thought.
Well, and for all of our newlisteners out there and we're
getting new listeners all thetime if you don't know what your
reference profile is, go intothe show notes.
There's a link and you cancomplete the behavioral
assessment.
Take you less than 10 minutesand we'll send you your
reference profile one-pagedescription and you will find
(20:04):
out what your reference profileis, what your superpowers are,
your potential kryptonite.
Gosh.
I think we've done 13 or 14 ofthese.
We're getting close to the endof our reference profile series,
but for every one of these, asthis series continues to build,
all of the episodes are listedin the show notes, and I just
think it's been reallyinteresting and our listeners
(20:26):
would agree.
Sara Best (20:37):
You too, John, appreciate the time today and
everybody out there in the Bosshole Transformation Nation.
We will see you next time.
John Broer (20:44):
Thanks very much for checking out this episode of
the Bossh ole Chronicles.
It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Boss
hole story that you want toshare with the Bossh ole
Transformation Nation, justreach out.
You can email us atmystory@thebossholechronicles.
com.
Again,mystory@thebossholechronicles.
com, we'll see you next time.
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