June 4, 2025 • 28 mins
David, Javi, and Jason explore evangelism through the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well from John 4, revealing how Jesus breaks cultural boundaries to offer grace and hope.
• Jesus meets the Samaritan woman where she is, crossing significant cultural, religious, and gender boundaries
• The woman comes to the well at noon (an unusual time), likely avoiding community due to shame
• Jesus acknowledges her life circumstances without judgment or condemnation
• Rather than starting with theology, Jesus uses the familiar (water) to introduce deeper spiritual concepts
• Jesus listens first and responds thoughtfully rather than leading with his own agenda
• The transformed woman becomes the first evangelist, immediately sharing her testimony
• Our past struggles and unworthiness become our greatest evangelistic strengths
• Church tradition identifies her as Fotini ("the enlightened one") who continued spreading the gospel
• Personal transformation becomes the most powerful evidence when sharing faith with others
• Effective evangelism requires meeting people where they are with empathy, not judgment
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome everyone.
How's it going?
What's going on?
Having a lovely one.
How are you Doing great?
I am pumped for today.
Yes, it is definitely kind ofan odd thing that we're going to
(00:24):
talk about.
Okay, so the topic is going tobe evangelism, it's how to speak
to others about Christ.
Yeah, but we're going to use astory that uses Christ to talk
about how to talk about Christ.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Which is going to be interesting.
This is the Jesus and the womanof Samaria.
Oh, yeah, john 4, 1 through 39is where we're going to be using
okay, uh, but this goes all theway to 45.
Uh, but john 4, 1 to 39, andthis is the samaritan woman
comes to the well and theapostles have gone into town and
(00:57):
it's just jesus and her rightsitting around the well and
there's this really greatinteraction that happens between
jesus and her um and ends upbeing all about evangelism and
and how to speak about him.
Yeah, um, but the first thinghe does, which is really really
cool, is she is the first personthat jesus openly reveals who
(01:18):
he is.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, that's true, he has not yet revealed himself to
anybody.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Um, he has done miracles, but he has not yet
revealed himself to anybody.
He has done miracles, but hehas not revealed himself as the
Messiah to anybody, and he doesthat with her.
So it's.
And what's even more mindblowing is this is a woman of
Samaria.
This is somebody who theHebrews would not engage in
conversation with, and more thanthat, she's actually at the
(01:45):
well, and when you look at thetime, she's at the well at noon.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What I've heard about that and please, david, correct
me if I'm wrong, but the Jewishlooked at people from Samaria
or Samaritans as unclean.
Yes, they're just spiteful likeunclean.
Yes, yes, like they're justspiteful they're.
They're people that, uh, thatworship.
(02:09):
Also, they incorporated thegreek gods gods into their
culture and all that stuff,right, and they're like they're
mixed, right, they?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
would never be.
They would never be caughtsitting and having a
conversation period ever no, um,and she's coming about the six
hours, what the bible says, andthat means it's about noon.
Yeah, and that's also very odd,because when people went to
draw water, they would do thisearly in the morning.
They would not wait for the sunof the day to come, and she's
(02:34):
doing it noon, so it's evenshowing us something further.
So, it's this woman that hewould never have a conversation
with, coming at a time thatalready puts her in a
perspective of not only a womanthat we've been talked to, but
you're coming at a time wherewhat'd you do wrong?
Yeah, why are you coming thistime?
Why are you trying to hideyourself right from everybody
else?
So this is all happeningundertone.
(02:56):
Again, this has nothing to dowith what jesus is saying.
This is just kind of settingthe story backstory for what
exactly is about to happen.
And then jesus starts toacknowledge her, talk to her and
point out things like I knowthe sin you've done.
Yeah, I know you've had fivehusbands.
I know that you're living oneright now, that you're not
(03:19):
married.
He's kind of pointing thingsout to her, um, but not in a
judgmental way.
He is literally just pointingout hey, you're here at this
time because of these things.
And it's this really coolmoment where he is starting to
open up her heart for what he'sabout to talk and what she's
(03:42):
doing is she's actuallyresponding in a very normal
fashion.
She doesn't really takeanything of it.
Right now.
She's going how are you drawingwater?
you don't even have something todraw water with yeah, yeah, you
know she's just kind to strangeman you're, you're drawing,
you're at a well trying to drawwater and you don't have a pail
or whatever you call it and andhe is just getting her to talk,
(04:02):
and that's the first part ofthis that I really want to talk
about, which is, you know,sometimes we are and when I say
we, I say people who want to beevangelists, people who want to
spread the gospel things, peoplewho feel like, hey, it's my job
to spread God's word, which weknow it is.
It's a great commission, right,but what they start with is the
(04:23):
let me tell you what I think,and they start right into it,
right, what jesus is doing islet me get you to talk and I can
respond.
Yeah, and this is somethingwhere I look at couples, and you
know you look at couplestherapy, and what do they say
are?
Are you responding by listeningfirst or responding because you
(04:44):
had the answer before?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
you were even Well for me what I see in the story
here.
It's Jesus, the Jewish man,going to a Samaritan woman which
they would never speak to them.
And when I think about that andevangelism is just the approach
of going, you know what?
Everyone could use a savior,everyone needs a savior, and the
culture bounds, the genderdifference there is like it
(05:07):
doesn't matter.
Everyone could use hope, andthat's what I see there when I
first read it.
But as we go deeper into it,there's more happening.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, I mean he's crossing boundaries.
He's crossing boundaries rightnow.
Yeah, for sure he is opening upa conversation.
One of the things I really loveand I'm just going to kind of
step back and go Jesus when hepreaches to people, and Paul did
the same thing is they saydifferent things to different
people from where they are, andit's impossible to do that.
(05:37):
If you don't listen, I can'ttell where you are in your
journey in your head, I can'tgive you the answer.
I can't say well, jesus is theanswer for all that, unless I
know what that problem really is.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, and I was going to say that.
I was going to say like.
So we can't evangelize toanyone, but for someone to not
tell the truth.
If you want to hear the truth,they have to be open to be to to
hear the truth but also sharethe truth.
Meaning, like jesus christasked her, right, hey, you have
(06:15):
a husband right to go back to,or, um, actually you have no
husband, right, so he knows.
Like jesus didn't have to askher anything.
He knows what's happening inher life, but he gave her the
chance to tell the truth.
And by her telling the truth toJesus, oh, you're open up now,
you're open to receive sometruth.
Does that make sense?
And I think I look back atMatthew 10, 14,.
(06:38):
Right, so this is Jesus sendingout the apostles in twos Go out
and preach the word.
This is evangelism.
Right, go out, knock on doorsand share the good news.
Right.
And what he says here inscripture?
He says if anyone would notwelcome you or listen to your
words, leave that home or townand shake the dust off your feet
(06:59):
.
If they're not willing to hearthe truth, if they don't want to
accept the truth, then youcan't.
You're talking to the wall.
So there's that truth.
When you're speaking to othersnon-believers or people just
struggling with the faith Ifthey're not open to receive the
truth, it's hard for you to evenshare the good news.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, let me ask you, if somebody's not ready to
receive it and Jesus is becausethis woman might not have been
ready to receive this, but Jesuswas able to enter in this
conversation, he was able toopen her up enough to not only
understand what he's saying andhear what he's saying, but we'll
go into what she doesafterwards.
But we're talking about a fullconversion here from somebody
(07:42):
who's totally shut down tosomebody who's wide open from it
.
Let me just ask you, hearingthat you know, hey, if somebody
is not listening to you, youshould just kind of walk away
and shake that dirt from your,from your feet.
Is that something that we canlook at as, hey, this is the
principle I want to live my lifeby, or hey, no, maybe I'm doing
this wrong.
Maybe I'm doing this wrong.
(08:03):
Maybe I'm evangelizing wrong.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I think in the pro I mean for their.
I look at them and, as you aregoing about your life for your
day, let's say, I meet somebodywithin the grocery store or
whatever it is, and I hear andthis is how I approach, at least
if I hear an opportunity toshare some truth in their life,
right, If I speak to them and go, hey, you know how much are
these apples, and they gowhatever, and we go into a story
(08:27):
and they're open enough, Imight share Christ with them.
In that instance, right,there's an opportunity for us.
There was a truth that we metlike, hey, I'm having these
struggles and I'm able toprovide a hope out of that
struggle, but if theconversation, it's very flat,
they don't want to acceptanything or receive anything, I
(08:49):
might not share Christ with them.
I'll be loving to them, I'll beChrist-like to them, but I
wouldn't maybe approach them inthat way.
Maybe that's different or wrong,but I think that's what it is.
Even when you look at streetevangelism and stuff like that
that could be, it's a littledifferent.
You're out there.
This is what I'm here for toshare good news.
Come here.
(09:09):
If you step forward, you'rewilling to accept the truth from
what I'm here for to share.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I got it.
What I hear sometimes and thisis with evangelism in general is
we have a reason, we're doingthis, we have this purpose and
we're doing it for that.
What, what Jesus is doing hereand this comes out right from
the beginning, when he's talkingabout the water and he's saying
you know, you're going to bethirsty again.
Do you want the living?
I love that.
And let's just hit on livingwater for a few minutes, because
(09:40):
what he is saying is not hey,you're not listening to me, I
have something better.
This is because he is sayingthe living water is better, but
he's laying it down in adifferent way.
And again, we have to go backinto the context of them.
Yeah, she is drawing water forlife.
This is why they draw water.
I'm drawing water so I can live.
Right, what is living water?
(10:02):
What is he talking about?
Because, she's going.
What exactly is living water?
Yeah, what is he talking about?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Because she's going.
What exactly is living water?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, living waterin Hebrew also means running
water.
It would have been the commonterm for it, correct?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And what is the running water for?
In Hebrew context, if you thinkabout water and running water,
that's purity, that's the mikvah, that is everything they do in
Levitical law.
The only way to attain purityis through living water, is
through running water.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
The part of the story that hits me as evangelism is
not so much I'm just going kindof a different direction the
part that hits me as evangelismis that there he uses common
verbiage that she would havebeen used to, and then he just
changes the perspective on her alittle bit.
He comes and he says will yougive me a drink?
And she is surprised that he'sasking for the drink because he,
(10:57):
you know, by culture heshouldn't be.
And so, first of all, he'sentering into this situation
that most people don't, which isconfusing to her.
And then, you know, she saysbut you don't even have the
bucket, and it's not that she'snot willing, she's just trying
to understand why he's here inthe first place.
And then what he does is, Ithink, masterful conversation.
We've talked so many times aboutJesus meeting or God meeting
(11:18):
you where you're at.
He meets her where she's at.
He takes something that she'svery, very well aware of.
He takes something that shewell aware get it sorry, um,
she's very well aware of, and heends up taking a concept that
she knows right, and he turns itinto something that she was.
And she even says beforehand Iwas expecting the messiah.
(11:40):
The messiah is going to come.
When the messiah comes, he'sgoing to tell me what's going on
.
When the messiah comes, he'sgoing to tell she does believe,
she's already ready, but shedoesn't, like.
She believes in the concept ofit, but she doesn't know.
It's him, and what he does and Ithink this is really
fascinating and really brilliantis he takes this concept that
she knows and he turns it intosomething that she can
understand, in saying that theliving water that you constantly
(12:02):
have to draw from you don'thave to constantly draw from it
anymore.
And now he's changed universes,from the one you drink to the
one that you take into your soul.
But he's he's.
This is what I think thatevangelism is is.
Well, you know, it's not aboutwalk up and go.
Hey, you sinner, stop being asinner, you screw up you know,
(12:23):
it's.
it's looking at somebody withcompassion, with empathy and
understanding their situation,and and to the point where, even
when he talks to them about,you know you have a husband or
you don't have a husband or youknow, you've had five Right.
Obviously, we're never able tosoothsay and know what's going
on in their lives.
We don't have that informationbut, like you said earlier, we
can listen and we can find outand then, once we know enough,
(12:47):
then we can alter our statementsof faith to something that they
understand and a concept thatthey can understand and a way
they can understand, and beingable to be flexible like that is
.
I think that's the differencebetween a good evangelist and a
bad evangelist Telling somebodythat they're a bunch of sinners
who screw up all the time, youknow, and having this very
(13:07):
inflexible.
Although very true, althoughvery true, but it's not going to
get anywhere.
And so, with her, when heacknowledges her and he doesn't
condemn her, when heacknowledges her sins and
doesn't condemn them and hecontinues to say the living
water is still here for you.
Like this is what I can.
I can like visually picturemyself talking to somebody who's
(13:28):
going through something andsaying I see your sin.
Yeah, I see your problems.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I see your daughter, I see your faults.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, I see your challenges, but there is
something out there that's goingto help you.
Yeah, there is a God who'sgoing to help you.
I'm never going to be able tosay I am he woman, go tell
everyone.
But I can say I'm full of heand I want to pass he back on to
you.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, I think the thing about our faith, you know,
or just God, period, it's youknow, we all live life and life,
sometimes life happens and Ifeel like there's hope and by us
evangelizing, sharing the hope,which is not ours to have,
right or to keep, it's ours toshare, share the good news,
(14:12):
right, it's, that's the hope andI think anyone could receive
hope.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and also, are we living that?
Are we transformed?
Because if you're nottransformed again, this becomes
very challenging and then theother thing that you look at.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's a good point, though, david.
I mean, i'm'm sorry, I didn'tmean to cut you off, but like,
if we're not living that way andpeople know we're not living
that way, it's hard for them toreceive that truth.
Wait, wait, you're telling meto follow this life.
It's impossible for them tofollow that truth.
I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
For what reason?
Like you're the same person Iknew 10 years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You're doing the same things.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, why are you?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
that sounds like condemnation, but when they see
the change in your life and theysee how you have changed, more
importantly, how God has changedyou and then they want that
change.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Right, they see that change.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's the power of testimony, right when I'm
drinking from the well of Godand the water is changing,
changing me, then they want todrink from that same well.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, and you're always pointing to Jesus, not
perfection.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Because you're not going to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You have to point to Jesus With testimony Javi we
just mentioned.
You know, testimony is such animportant thing.
The reason why we all havedifferent testimonies is because
we can all approach peopledifferently.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right, people go through things.
So one of the things that usedto drive me crazy when I was
learning to be a chaplain was ifsomebody's going through
something and the chaplain wouldsay I know exactly what you're
going through, let me, and theystart to go into the thing.
Yeah, no, you don't.
And that's the the firstresponse in somebody's brain
when they're in a really darkplaces.
Right, you don't understand me.
You've never gone through whatI'm going through, and right and
(15:44):
all and right now jesus is notgoing.
Oh, you know, poor you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I know what you feel like and all of that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, he is.
He's hitting her with truth,but in grace.
And that's the trick, is he'snot condemning her, he's not
judging her right, he is justshowing her grace and and
showing her a better way.
Yeah, and that's really what itis.
And and, by the way, justbecause I love it, running water
, mayim chayim is actually theway to say it, mayim chayim,
(16:14):
which is just fun to say Mayimchayim, mayim chayim.
That sounds like my doctor.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So for a second, as I said that out loud, I realized
that I had never considered thatJesus is using another
symbology here.
He's standing in front of awell, saying there's water there
, yeah, but then at the sametime he's pointing to himself
and saying I am the other well,I am the well by which you can
drink different water.
(16:44):
He's not saying that you know,if you get that water from there
and I bless it, it's going tobecome that.
It's like I just neverconsidered water.
He's not saying that you know,if you get that water from there
and I bless it, it's going tobecome that.
It's like I just neverconsidered that.
He's saying that I am theinfinite well, the infinite
spring.
You know, I, I am the father,who is the, who is the water
that will give you life, and Idon't know I just never put that
like the visualization to addto it now.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So even adding to that, when she's talking about
the well of regular water, yeah,she's saying you have nothing
to draw it and the well is deep,right, deep.
Yeah, your well of living wateris not yeah his well is very
accessible for everybody, so westart thinking about how to get
your water, how to get that.
You get this water from thiswell, man, you're going to be
(17:23):
working for it.
God's living water, right that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
well is not deep.
It it's very accessible, andshe had to walk a long way at a
harsh hour to get it, so shealso understands how much of a
blessing it is to be able toaccess that well from wherever
you are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Oh wow, I love that layer there.
That's a deep layer there, nopun intended, like it's a deep
it's a deep, well layer.
Yeah, deep well layer.
It's a deep well of wealth.
Yeah, a deep well layer.
Yeah, because I mean, well,she's a Samaritan, so I'm not
sure exactly her culture in thatsense or her religion or how
she approaches things, but Iknow the Jewish faith and the
stuff that you have to do toeven reach God, to even speak to
(18:01):
him, to, the stuff that youhave to.
You know the 600 and somethingrules that you have to do to
uphold to reach this purity orsomething.
It's deep, it's very layered,where God is like no, I'm
accessible.
And not only am I easilyaccessible, it's a living water
that you could have forever inyour life.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Well, I think Jewish people feel as though God is
accessible to them as a people.
But she's not one of them, andthey would have been quick a
people, but she's not one ofthem, and they would have been
quick to tell her she's not oneof them so for her it might have
seemed he does too.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
He says right the God that you worship on this
mountain she's also very cleargoing.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I don't know what you're doing, talking to me like
almost.
Sir.
Do you know who you are and whoI?
Am meanwhile he knowseverything about you.
It's such a great questionwhere she's going, kind of, do
you know who I am?
And he's going oh yeah, do youknow who I am?
And that's even a really coolerkind of moment.
What happens after this is whenyou talk about evangelism and
(19:03):
how to talk about Christ wetalked right now just about
people seeing yourtransformation she runs to the
village.
She runs to her village withher testimony now and she is
telling everybody, everyone.
You have to see this guy.
She is now completelytransformed and changed from
this interaction with Jesus andthen takes that the next step
(19:27):
further.
Yeah, and that's that partwhere I'm going.
You know, evangelism isn't justI'm going to say the words, I'm
going to come with an agenda.
She has no agenda.
She is literally just going toher village and sharing this
news with them Now with thethought of let me change all of
these people's minds.
Just look what this man did tome.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, your testimony that you're, we talk about it,
there's songs about it.
Your testimony holds so muchweight in sharing it to other
people to receive the hope ofChrist.
And if that's all you know,that's enough.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I used to ask people and I'm sure it doesn't come
from me, I heard it somewhere, Ijust don't remember.
Is you know?
When we talk about hey, youknow, I need to eat at a good
Italian restaurant tonight, youknow my friends would be like,
oh, there's this Italianrestaurant, it's the best you
got to try this and this and getthis dish, and they'll go on
and on and on.
But when it comes to Jesus, arewe doing it the same way?
(20:26):
Are we going?
Listen, I had Jesus in me.
You have to experience this.
It's different than you've everhad before.
This is the best dish ever.
We don't do it the same way.
You see that joy in her whenshe's doing it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
She told town.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, she becomes an evangelist herself.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
The first evangelist.
I think Exactly.
You know she the firstevangelist.
I think right.
Probably, to some extent, if welook at it, yeah, probably,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I mean, the idea here is, she knew how unworthy she
felt Forget the Samaritan part.
She knew she felt unworthybecause she had been married
five times and now she wasliving in an un, you know, was
living in an un, you know, uh,he was in an unmarried situation
and so, by, by all accounts, insamaritanism or jewishism, she
(21:15):
would have been unclean sinner,yeah, right, yeah, and she or
she would have been an outcastto some extent, or yeah, I mean
so far, so good yeah yeah, and.
And then this man comes alongand says don't worry,
everything's fine.
I see that to the point where Iwill call it out.
That's how well I do know you,and yet I'm telling you that you
(21:38):
have my love, my forgiveness,my attention, my goodness,
regardless of all those things.
And the weight off her musthave been tremendous, yeah, to
the point where and I beentremendous to the point where
and I think this is the pointabout evangelism it's like if
you felt something that big, ifyou've eaten that best dish at
the Italian restaurant, yournext step should be to go tell
(22:00):
everybody about that Italiandish.
Right, she got, she felt thelove, yeah, she felt the
acceptance, she felt thewelcoming and she wanted
everyone else to feel it as well.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, Luke four, sorry, John four.
39 says many of the Samaritansfrom that town believed in him
because of that woman'stestimony.
Yeah, you know, and um Iguarantee.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
She didn't argue them to belief, right, she's just
sharing.
She didn't academicize them,yeah, yeah even go well.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
No, these are the 12 reasons for evidence like that's
it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
She just, she just shared, I mean, what we imagine
to be a moment well, imagine shetransformed to the whole.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Remember, the whole community knows her and they
know that she's probably adifferent kind of person and
they know how.
Yeah, you know she was probablyshamed and shameful and kept
her head down.
I mean, look, she wouldn't, shewouldn't even go to the water
to the well until everybody elsewas gone.
That's the kind of shame shehad.
And now here she is runninginto the streets saying that you
know, god has come.
God has come, god has come.
That is a great point.
When they see her change again,it goes back to the
(23:00):
transformation we talked aboutbefore.
Now this happens immediately,but in our lives we find God in
a dark place.
We change our lives, we getbetter, we become better, we
speak better, we're morepeaceful, we're more patient,
we're more kind, and people seethat change and now, all of a
sudden, they can believe as well.
So it's like our responsibilitynot just to learn from God, but
(23:21):
to to express the change of Godin our lives for the benefit of
others as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And she never slowed down.
According, and again, this is,this is church tradition.
So you know, these are snippetsof little ancient manuscripts
and writings, but they have hername as Fotini, which means the
enlightened one.
Okay, okay, and she wasapparently baptized and then
spread the gospel to NorthAfrica and Rome and eventually
(23:48):
was martyred by Nero.
But this was the firstevangelist who spread.
She didn't just have thisexperience, go and tell somebody
and that was it and let it sitthere.
She had such a traumaticexperience, such a wonderful
time with Jesus that transformedher entire life that she
totally changed her ways, becamean evangelist to the point
(24:11):
where she was martyred, butbrought that to distant lands
traveling time.
It stayed with her.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, let's go back to testimony for a minute,
because that's you know.
Again, this is one of thosethings that sometimes we talk
about what testimony means and Ithink you said it really
eloquently which is that peoplehave gone through things, and so
when certain people tell youI've been there, it means I've
been there.
And so when they tell you I knowwhat you feel like, they really
do know what you feel like.
And you know, I know, that alot of people, especially people
(24:38):
who feel very unworthy to comeback to the faith, don't realize
that that unworthiness is alsowhat makes them worthy.
That you know drug addiction orthat alcoholism or that huge
mistake or that I'm not going tosay the millions of things
people could have done wrong,but somebody else is doing those
same things wrong and they feelunworthy now.
(24:59):
And it's the ability to say tosomebody who is, you know, upset
with themselves and won't allowthemselves to forgive
themselves, to have somebody sayI feel you, I know where you're
at, I really do understand you,and so whatever trial or
tribulation that you're goingthrough or whatever past things
that you've done, that you'reembarrassed of, that you're
shamed of, can become yourbiggest strength as a Christian,
(25:21):
because you can find groups ofpeople who are like that and
help them get through the thingthat God helped you get through,
and you know, I think that'sreally powerful.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I was going to say, even with evangelism, and like
this woman, what she did shespoke to her town.
She didn't go to the Jews andtry to convert them to
Christianity or to let them knowthat the Messiah is here.
She spoke to her people and Ithink we could understand that,
as, as people like I might notbe able, my testimony might not
(25:53):
be for everyone for everyone, orI can't speak to somebody that
maybe I've never walked in theirshoes, like you were saying
before, david, like my testimonymight not be the same way if I
was to go.
You know I've been there before, as, uh, you know it says let's
say I'm speaking to a drugaddict or something like that,
that's, overcoming theiraddiction.
You know, if I was there before, I could relate, I could
understand what they're goingthrough and let them know hey, I
(26:16):
found living water.
Come here, draw living waterfrom here.
because I'm able to say soyou're going to meet them where
there are you know and I thinkmaybe that's what she became
this big evangelism, and that'swhere she probably approached a
lot of things.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Then I think that when you struggle with something
, you are coming from a place ofhumility, you are coming from a
place of shame, empathy, andyou have that.
You build that up to where,when you are coming back to the
faith, if you're somebody who'sstruggling and you're saying,
listen, I don't feel like I'mworthy.
You are more worthy thansomebody who's on the top of
(26:50):
their mountain, going.
I'm the best person ever and Ideserve all of this and all of
that and I'm going.
No, the better evangelist isthe one that has struggled, who
feels humble, who is going tocome from this place of darkness
for a moment and go.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I was this deep and God brought me out and God's
going to put you in front of thepeople who you need to be in
front of.
After that too, like I remember,when I first came back, one of
the things that I was I feltvery shameful for having left
for so long.
Like that was my thing.
Like I mean, I felt veryshameful.
I was like I had this plan toto be in ministry when I was in,
you know, 18 years old, andthen I kind of left it behind
(27:24):
and went on this whole worldlyway and and when I came back, I
felt very guilty for that, forhaving searched for so many
other things, and one of thethings that was told to me was
like it wasn't for naught.
You know, you, you spent allthese years learning about all
these other faiths and all theseother.
You know agnostic beliefs andscientific beliefs and now the
amount of people that I now haveconversations with who are
(27:46):
struggling believers because ofsome scientific thing or some
you know other religious thing.
I have a lot of answers thatother people don't have.
I just I just have perspectivesthat other people don't have,
and not to say that they'rebetter or worse.
They're just different andthey're more attuned towards
people who feel like that, andyou know.
The same thing goes again, Ithink, if you're an, you're an
(28:07):
addict or if you're a gambling,or you know what are those
things are and you've overcomethem.
You know what it feels like tohave to overcome those and you
can talk to those people moredirectly.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's good.
Yeah, listen, if.
If you see us as a symbolic, uh, italian restaurant and you
want to spread what we do and wesay to other people, we would
love to.
We'd love to hear from you,we'd love to know what you think
of this episode and others,what you're thinking of for
future episodes.
We don't do Yelp reviews, butwe do Apple reviews.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yes, we do.
We do do Apple reviews.
If you see me as a garlic knot,that's exactly I'm a garlic row
.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I will never not, but we appreciate you and we can't
wait to see you next time.
Thanks guys, see you.
Speak to you next timeSomething.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome everyone.
How's it going?
What's going on?
Having a lovely one.
How are you Doing great?
I am pumped for today.
Yes, it is definitely kind ofan odd thing that we're going to
(00:24):
talk about.
Okay, so the topic is going tobe evangelism, it's how to speak
to others about Christ.
Yeah, but we're going to use astory that uses Christ to talk
about how to talk about Christ.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Which is going to be interesting.
This is the Jesus and the womanof Samaria.
Oh, yeah, john 4, 1 through 39is where we're going to be using
okay, uh, but this goes all theway to 45.
Uh, but john 4, 1 to 39, andthis is the samaritan woman
comes to the well and theapostles have gone into town and
(00:57):
it's just jesus and her rightsitting around the well and
there's this really greatinteraction that happens between
jesus and her um and ends upbeing all about evangelism and
and how to speak about him.
Yeah, um, but the first thinghe does, which is really really
cool, is she is the first personthat jesus openly reveals who
(01:18):
he is.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, that's true, he has not yet revealed himself to
anybody.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Um, he has done miracles, but he has not yet
revealed himself to anybody.
He has done miracles, but hehas not revealed himself as the
Messiah to anybody, and he doesthat with her.
So it's.
And what's even more mindblowing is this is a woman of
Samaria.
This is somebody who theHebrews would not engage in
conversation with, and more thanthat, she's actually at the
(01:45):
well, and when you look at thetime, she's at the well at noon.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What I've heard about that and please, david, correct
me if I'm wrong, but the Jewishlooked at people from Samaria
or Samaritans as unclean.
Yes, they're just spiteful likeunclean.
Yes, yes, like they're justspiteful they're.
They're people that, uh, thatworship.
(02:09):
Also, they incorporated thegreek gods gods into their
culture and all that stuff,right, and they're like they're
mixed, right, they?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
would never be.
They would never be caughtsitting and having a
conversation period ever no, um,and she's coming about the six
hours, what the bible says, andthat means it's about noon.
Yeah, and that's also very odd,because when people went to
draw water, they would do thisearly in the morning.
They would not wait for the sunof the day to come, and she's
(02:34):
doing it noon, so it's evenshowing us something further.
So, it's this woman that hewould never have a conversation
with, coming at a time thatalready puts her in a
perspective of not only a womanthat we've been talked to, but
you're coming at a time wherewhat'd you do wrong?
Yeah, why are you coming thistime?
Why are you trying to hideyourself right from everybody
else?
So this is all happeningundertone.
(02:56):
Again, this has nothing to dowith what jesus is saying.
This is just kind of settingthe story backstory for what
exactly is about to happen.
And then jesus starts toacknowledge her, talk to her and
point out things like I knowthe sin you've done.
Yeah, I know you've had fivehusbands.
I know that you're living oneright now, that you're not
(03:19):
married.
He's kind of pointing thingsout to her, um, but not in a
judgmental way.
He is literally just pointingout hey, you're here at this
time because of these things.
And it's this really coolmoment where he is starting to
open up her heart for what he'sabout to talk and what she's
(03:42):
doing is she's actuallyresponding in a very normal
fashion.
She doesn't really takeanything of it.
Right now.
She's going how are you drawingwater?
you don't even have something todraw water with yeah, yeah, you
know she's just kind to strangeman you're, you're drawing,
you're at a well trying to drawwater and you don't have a pail
or whatever you call it and andhe is just getting her to talk,
(04:02):
and that's the first part ofthis that I really want to talk
about, which is, you know,sometimes we are and when I say
we, I say people who want to beevangelists, people who want to
spread the gospel things, peoplewho feel like, hey, it's my job
to spread God's word, which weknow it is.
It's a great commission, right,but what they start with is the
(04:23):
let me tell you what I think,and they start right into it,
right, what jesus is doing islet me get you to talk and I can
respond.
Yeah, and this is somethingwhere I look at couples, and you
know you look at couplestherapy, and what do they say
are?
Are you responding by listeningfirst or responding because you
(04:44):
had the answer before?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
you were even Well for me what I see in the story
here.
It's Jesus, the Jewish man,going to a Samaritan woman which
they would never speak to them.
And when I think about that andevangelism is just the approach
of going, you know what?
Everyone could use a savior,everyone needs a savior, and the
culture bounds, the genderdifference there is like it
(05:07):
doesn't matter.
Everyone could use hope, andthat's what I see there when I
first read it.
But as we go deeper into it,there's more happening.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, I mean he's crossing boundaries.
He's crossing boundaries rightnow.
Yeah, for sure he is opening upa conversation.
One of the things I really loveand I'm just going to kind of
step back and go Jesus when hepreaches to people, and Paul did
the same thing is they saydifferent things to different
people from where they are, andit's impossible to do that.
(05:37):
If you don't listen, I can'ttell where you are in your
journey in your head, I can'tgive you the answer.
I can't say well, jesus is theanswer for all that, unless I
know what that problem really is.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, and I was going to say that.
I was going to say like.
So we can't evangelize toanyone, but for someone to not
tell the truth.
If you want to hear the truth,they have to be open to be to to
hear the truth but also sharethe truth.
Meaning, like jesus christasked her, right, hey, you have
(06:15):
a husband right to go back to,or, um, actually you have no
husband, right, so he knows.
Like jesus didn't have to askher anything.
He knows what's happening inher life, but he gave her the
chance to tell the truth.
And by her telling the truth toJesus, oh, you're open up now,
you're open to receive sometruth.
Does that make sense?
And I think I look back atMatthew 10, 14,.
(06:38):
Right, so this is Jesus sendingout the apostles in twos Go out
and preach the word.
This is evangelism.
Right, go out, knock on doorsand share the good news.
Right.
And what he says here inscripture?
He says if anyone would notwelcome you or listen to your
words, leave that home or townand shake the dust off your feet
(06:59):
.
If they're not willing to hearthe truth, if they don't want to
accept the truth, then youcan't.
You're talking to the wall.
So there's that truth.
When you're speaking to othersnon-believers or people just
struggling with the faith Ifthey're not open to receive the
truth, it's hard for you to evenshare the good news.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, let me ask you, if somebody's not ready to
receive it and Jesus is becausethis woman might not have been
ready to receive this, but Jesuswas able to enter in this
conversation, he was able toopen her up enough to not only
understand what he's saying andhear what he's saying, but we'll
go into what she doesafterwards.
But we're talking about a fullconversion here from somebody
(07:42):
who's totally shut down tosomebody who's wide open from it
.
Let me just ask you, hearingthat you know, hey, if somebody
is not listening to you, youshould just kind of walk away
and shake that dirt from your,from your feet.
Is that something that we canlook at as, hey, this is the
principle I want to live my lifeby, or hey, no, maybe I'm doing
this wrong.
Maybe I'm doing this wrong.
(08:03):
Maybe I'm evangelizing wrong.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I think in the pro I mean for their.
I look at them and, as you aregoing about your life for your
day, let's say, I meet somebodywithin the grocery store or
whatever it is, and I hear andthis is how I approach, at least
if I hear an opportunity toshare some truth in their life,
right, If I speak to them and go, hey, you know how much are
these apples, and they gowhatever, and we go into a story
(08:27):
and they're open enough, Imight share Christ with them.
In that instance, right,there's an opportunity for us.
There was a truth that we metlike, hey, I'm having these
struggles and I'm able toprovide a hope out of that
struggle, but if theconversation, it's very flat,
they don't want to acceptanything or receive anything, I
(08:49):
might not share Christ with them.
I'll be loving to them, I'll beChrist-like to them, but I
wouldn't maybe approach them inthat way.
Maybe that's different or wrong,but I think that's what it is.
Even when you look at streetevangelism and stuff like that
that could be, it's a littledifferent.
You're out there.
This is what I'm here for toshare good news.
Come here.
(09:09):
If you step forward, you'rewilling to accept the truth from
what I'm here for to share.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I got it.
What I hear sometimes and thisis with evangelism in general is
we have a reason, we're doingthis, we have this purpose and
we're doing it for that.
What, what Jesus is doing hereand this comes out right from
the beginning, when he's talkingabout the water and he's saying
you know, you're going to bethirsty again.
Do you want the living?
I love that.
And let's just hit on livingwater for a few minutes, because
(09:40):
what he is saying is not hey,you're not listening to me, I
have something better.
This is because he is sayingthe living water is better, but
he's laying it down in adifferent way.
And again, we have to go backinto the context of them.
Yeah, she is drawing water forlife.
This is why they draw water.
I'm drawing water so I can live.
Right, what is living water?
(10:02):
What is he talking about?
Because, she's going.
What exactly is living water?
Yeah, what is he talking about?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Because she's going.
What exactly is living water?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, living waterin Hebrew also means running
water.
It would have been the commonterm for it, correct?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And what is the running water for?
In Hebrew context, if you thinkabout water and running water,
that's purity, that's the mikvah, that is everything they do in
Levitical law.
The only way to attain purityis through living water, is
through running water.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
The part of the story that hits me as evangelism is
not so much I'm just going kindof a different direction the
part that hits me as evangelismis that there he uses common
verbiage that she would havebeen used to, and then he just
changes the perspective on her alittle bit.
He comes and he says will yougive me a drink?
And she is surprised that he'sasking for the drink because he,
(10:57):
you know, by culture heshouldn't be.
And so, first of all, he'sentering into this situation
that most people don't, which isconfusing to her.
And then, you know, she saysbut you don't even have the
bucket, and it's not that she'snot willing, she's just trying
to understand why he's here inthe first place.
And then what he does is, Ithink, masterful conversation.
We've talked so many times aboutJesus meeting or God meeting
(11:18):
you where you're at.
He meets her where she's at.
He takes something that she'svery, very well aware of.
He takes something that shewell aware get it sorry, um,
she's very well aware of, and heends up taking a concept that
she knows right, and he turns itinto something that she was.
And she even says beforehand Iwas expecting the messiah.
(11:40):
The messiah is going to come.
When the messiah comes, he'sgoing to tell me what's going on
.
When the messiah comes, he'sgoing to tell she does believe,
she's already ready, but shedoesn't, like.
She believes in the concept ofit, but she doesn't know.
It's him, and what he does and Ithink this is really
fascinating and really brilliantis he takes this concept that
she knows and he turns it intosomething that she can
understand, in saying that theliving water that you constantly
(12:02):
have to draw from you don'thave to constantly draw from it
anymore.
And now he's changed universes,from the one you drink to the
one that you take into your soul.
But he's he's.
This is what I think thatevangelism is is.
Well, you know, it's not aboutwalk up and go.
Hey, you sinner, stop being asinner, you screw up you know,
(12:23):
it's.
it's looking at somebody withcompassion, with empathy and
understanding their situation,and and to the point where, even
when he talks to them about,you know you have a husband or
you don't have a husband or youknow, you've had five Right.
Obviously, we're never able tosoothsay and know what's going
on in their lives.
We don't have that informationbut, like you said earlier, we
can listen and we can find outand then, once we know enough,
(12:47):
then we can alter our statementsof faith to something that they
understand and a concept thatthey can understand and a way
they can understand, and beingable to be flexible like that is
.
I think that's the differencebetween a good evangelist and a
bad evangelist Telling somebodythat they're a bunch of sinners
who screw up all the time, youknow, and having this very
(13:07):
inflexible.
Although very true, althoughvery true, but it's not going to
get anywhere.
And so, with her, when heacknowledges her and he doesn't
condemn her, when heacknowledges her sins and
doesn't condemn them and hecontinues to say the living
water is still here for you.
Like this is what I can.
I can like visually picturemyself talking to somebody who's
(13:28):
going through something andsaying I see your sin.
Yeah, I see your problems.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I see your daughter, I see your faults.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, I see your challenges, but there is
something out there that's goingto help you.
Yeah, there is a God who'sgoing to help you.
I'm never going to be able tosay I am he woman, go tell
everyone.
But I can say I'm full of heand I want to pass he back on to
you.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, I think the thing about our faith, you know,
or just God, period, it's youknow, we all live life and life,
sometimes life happens and Ifeel like there's hope and by us
evangelizing, sharing the hope,which is not ours to have,
right or to keep, it's ours toshare, share the good news,
(14:12):
right, it's, that's the hope andI think anyone could receive
hope.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, and also, are we living that?
Are we transformed?
Because if you're nottransformed again, this becomes
very challenging and then theother thing that you look at.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's a good point, though, david.
I mean, i'm'm sorry, I didn'tmean to cut you off, but like,
if we're not living that way andpeople know we're not living
that way, it's hard for them toreceive that truth.
Wait, wait, you're telling meto follow this life.
It's impossible for them tofollow that truth.
I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
For what reason?
Like you're the same person Iknew 10 years ago.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You're doing the same things.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, why are you?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
that sounds like condemnation, but when they see
the change in your life and theysee how you have changed, more
importantly, how God has changedyou and then they want that
change.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Right, they see that change.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's the power of testimony, right when I'm
drinking from the well of Godand the water is changing,
changing me, then they want todrink from that same well.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, and you're always pointing to Jesus, not
perfection.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Because you're not going to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You have to point to Jesus With testimony Javi we
just mentioned.
You know, testimony is such animportant thing.
The reason why we all havedifferent testimonies is because
we can all approach peopledifferently.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right, people go through things.
So one of the things that usedto drive me crazy when I was
learning to be a chaplain was ifsomebody's going through
something and the chaplain wouldsay I know exactly what you're
going through, let me, and theystart to go into the thing.
Yeah, no, you don't.
And that's the the firstresponse in somebody's brain
when they're in a really darkplaces.
Right, you don't understand me.
You've never gone through whatI'm going through, and right and
(15:44):
all and right now jesus is notgoing.
Oh, you know, poor you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I know what you feel like and all of that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, he is.
He's hitting her with truth,but in grace.
And that's the trick, is he'snot condemning her, he's not
judging her right, he is justshowing her grace and and
showing her a better way.
Yeah, and that's really what itis.
And and, by the way, justbecause I love it, running water
, mayim chayim is actually theway to say it, mayim chayim,
(16:14):
which is just fun to say Mayimchayim, mayim chayim.
That sounds like my doctor.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So for a second, as I said that out loud, I realized
that I had never considered thatJesus is using another
symbology here.
He's standing in front of awell, saying there's water there
, yeah, but then at the sametime he's pointing to himself
and saying I am the other well,I am the well by which you can
drink different water.
(16:44):
He's not saying that you know,if you get that water from there
and I bless it, it's going tobecome that.
It's like I just neverconsidered water.
He's not saying that you know,if you get that water from there
and I bless it, it's going tobecome that.
It's like I just neverconsidered that.
He's saying that I am theinfinite well, the infinite
spring.
You know, I, I am the father,who is the, who is the water
that will give you life, and Idon't know I just never put that
like the visualization to addto it now.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So even adding to that, when she's talking about
the well of regular water, yeah,she's saying you have nothing
to draw it and the well is deep,right, deep.
Yeah, your well of living wateris not yeah his well is very
accessible for everybody, so westart thinking about how to get
your water, how to get that.
You get this water from thiswell, man, you're going to be
(17:23):
working for it.
God's living water, right that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
well is not deep.
It it's very accessible, andshe had to walk a long way at a
harsh hour to get it, so shealso understands how much of a
blessing it is to be able toaccess that well from wherever
you are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Oh wow, I love that layer there.
That's a deep layer there, nopun intended, like it's a deep
it's a deep, well layer.
Yeah, deep well layer.
It's a deep well of wealth.
Yeah, a deep well layer.
Yeah, because I mean, well,she's a Samaritan, so I'm not
sure exactly her culture in thatsense or her religion or how
she approaches things, but Iknow the Jewish faith and the
stuff that you have to do toeven reach God, to even speak to
(18:01):
him, to, the stuff that youhave to.
You know the 600 and somethingrules that you have to do to
uphold to reach this purity orsomething.
It's deep, it's very layered,where God is like no, I'm
accessible.
And not only am I easilyaccessible, it's a living water
that you could have forever inyour life.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Well, I think Jewish people feel as though God is
accessible to them as a people.
But she's not one of them, andthey would have been quick a
people, but she's not one ofthem, and they would have been
quick to tell her she's not oneof them so for her it might have
seemed he does too.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
He says right the God that you worship on this
mountain she's also very cleargoing.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I don't know what you're doing, talking to me like
almost.
Sir.
Do you know who you are and whoI?
Am meanwhile he knowseverything about you.
It's such a great questionwhere she's going, kind of, do
you know who I am?
And he's going oh yeah, do youknow who I am?
And that's even a really coolerkind of moment.
What happens after this is whenyou talk about evangelism and
(19:03):
how to talk about Christ wetalked right now just about
people seeing yourtransformation she runs to the
village.
She runs to her village withher testimony now and she is
telling everybody, everyone.
You have to see this guy.
She is now completelytransformed and changed from
this interaction with Jesus andthen takes that the next step
(19:27):
further.
Yeah, and that's that partwhere I'm going.
You know, evangelism isn't justI'm going to say the words, I'm
going to come with an agenda.
She has no agenda.
She is literally just going toher village and sharing this
news with them Now with thethought of let me change all of
these people's minds.
Just look what this man did tome.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, your testimony that you're, we talk about it,
there's songs about it.
Your testimony holds so muchweight in sharing it to other
people to receive the hope ofChrist.
And if that's all you know,that's enough.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I used to ask people and I'm sure it doesn't come
from me, I heard it somewhere, Ijust don't remember.
Is you know?
When we talk about hey, youknow, I need to eat at a good
Italian restaurant tonight, youknow my friends would be like,
oh, there's this Italianrestaurant, it's the best you
got to try this and this and getthis dish, and they'll go on
and on and on.
But when it comes to Jesus, arewe doing it the same way?
(20:26):
Are we going?
Listen, I had Jesus in me.
You have to experience this.
It's different than you've everhad before.
This is the best dish ever.
We don't do it the same way.
You see that joy in her whenshe's doing it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
She told town.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, she becomes an evangelist herself.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
The first evangelist.
I think Exactly.
You know she the firstevangelist.
I think right.
Probably, to some extent, if welook at it, yeah, probably,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I mean, the idea here is, she knew how unworthy she
felt Forget the Samaritan part.
She knew she felt unworthybecause she had been married
five times and now she wasliving in an un, you know, was
living in an un, you know, uh,he was in an unmarried situation
and so, by, by all accounts, insamaritanism or jewishism, she
(21:15):
would have been unclean sinner,yeah, right, yeah, and she or
she would have been an outcastto some extent, or yeah, I mean
so far, so good yeah yeah, and.
And then this man comes alongand says don't worry,
everything's fine.
I see that to the point where Iwill call it out.
That's how well I do know you,and yet I'm telling you that you
(21:38):
have my love, my forgiveness,my attention, my goodness,
regardless of all those things.
And the weight off her musthave been tremendous, yeah, to
the point where and I beentremendous to the point where
and I think this is the pointabout evangelism it's like if
you felt something that big, ifyou've eaten that best dish at
the Italian restaurant, yournext step should be to go tell
(22:00):
everybody about that Italiandish.
Right, she got, she felt thelove, yeah, she felt the
acceptance, she felt thewelcoming and she wanted
everyone else to feel it as well.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, Luke four, sorry, John four.
39 says many of the Samaritansfrom that town believed in him
because of that woman'stestimony.
Yeah, you know, and um Iguarantee.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
She didn't argue them to belief, right, she's just
sharing.
She didn't academicize them,yeah, yeah even go well.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
No, these are the 12 reasons for evidence like that's
it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
She just, she just shared, I mean, what we imagine
to be a moment well, imagine shetransformed to the whole.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Remember, the whole community knows her and they
know that she's probably adifferent kind of person and
they know how.
Yeah, you know she was probablyshamed and shameful and kept
her head down.
I mean, look, she wouldn't, shewouldn't even go to the water
to the well until everybody elsewas gone.
That's the kind of shame shehad.
And now here she is runninginto the streets saying that you
know, god has come.
God has come, god has come.
That is a great point.
When they see her change again,it goes back to the
(23:00):
transformation we talked aboutbefore.
Now this happens immediately,but in our lives we find God in
a dark place.
We change our lives, we getbetter, we become better, we
speak better, we're morepeaceful, we're more patient,
we're more kind, and people seethat change and now, all of a
sudden, they can believe as well.
So it's like our responsibilitynot just to learn from God, but
(23:21):
to to express the change of Godin our lives for the benefit of
others as well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And she never slowed down.
According, and again, this is,this is church tradition.
So you know, these are snippetsof little ancient manuscripts
and writings, but they have hername as Fotini, which means the
enlightened one.
Okay, okay, and she wasapparently baptized and then
spread the gospel to NorthAfrica and Rome and eventually
(23:48):
was martyred by Nero.
But this was the firstevangelist who spread.
She didn't just have thisexperience, go and tell somebody
and that was it and let it sitthere.
She had such a traumaticexperience, such a wonderful
time with Jesus that transformedher entire life that she
totally changed her ways, becamean evangelist to the point
(24:11):
where she was martyred, butbrought that to distant lands
traveling time.
It stayed with her.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, let's go back to testimony for a minute,
because that's you know.
Again, this is one of thosethings that sometimes we talk
about what testimony means and Ithink you said it really
eloquently which is that peoplehave gone through things, and so
when certain people tell youI've been there, it means I've
been there.
And so when they tell you I knowwhat you feel like, they really
do know what you feel like.
And you know, I know, that alot of people, especially people
(24:38):
who feel very unworthy to comeback to the faith, don't realize
that that unworthiness is alsowhat makes them worthy.
That you know drug addiction orthat alcoholism or that huge
mistake or that I'm not going tosay the millions of things
people could have done wrong,but somebody else is doing those
same things wrong and they feelunworthy now.
(24:59):
And it's the ability to say tosomebody who is, you know, upset
with themselves and won't allowthemselves to forgive
themselves, to have somebody sayI feel you, I know where you're
at, I really do understand you,and so whatever trial or
tribulation that you're goingthrough or whatever past things
that you've done, that you'reembarrassed of, that you're
shamed of, can become yourbiggest strength as a Christian,
(25:21):
because you can find groups ofpeople who are like that and
help them get through the thingthat God helped you get through,
and you know, I think that'sreally powerful.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I was going to say, even with evangelism, and like
this woman, what she did shespoke to her town.
She didn't go to the Jews andtry to convert them to
Christianity or to let them knowthat the Messiah is here.
She spoke to her people and Ithink we could understand that,
as, as people like I might notbe able, my testimony might not
(25:53):
be for everyone for everyone, orI can't speak to somebody that
maybe I've never walked in theirshoes, like you were saying
before, david, like my testimonymight not be the same way if I
was to go.
You know I've been there before, as, uh, you know it says let's
say I'm speaking to a drugaddict or something like that,
that's, overcoming theiraddiction.
You know, if I was there before, I could relate, I could
understand what they're goingthrough and let them know hey, I
(26:16):
found living water.
Come here, draw living waterfrom here.
because I'm able to say soyou're going to meet them where
there are you know and I thinkmaybe that's what she became
this big evangelism, and that'swhere she probably approached a
lot of things.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Then I think that when you struggle with something
, you are coming from a place ofhumility, you are coming from a
place of shame, empathy, andyou have that.
You build that up to where,when you are coming back to the
faith, if you're somebody who'sstruggling and you're saying,
listen, I don't feel like I'mworthy.
You are more worthy thansomebody who's on the top of
(26:50):
their mountain, going.
I'm the best person ever and Ideserve all of this and all of
that and I'm going.
No, the better evangelist isthe one that has struggled, who
feels humble, who is going tocome from this place of darkness
for a moment and go.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I was this deep and God brought me out and God's
going to put you in front of thepeople who you need to be in
front of.
After that too, like I remember,when I first came back, one of
the things that I was I feltvery shameful for having left
for so long.
Like that was my thing.
Like I mean, I felt veryshameful.
I was like I had this plan toto be in ministry when I was in,
you know, 18 years old, andthen I kind of left it behind
(27:24):
and went on this whole worldlyway and and when I came back, I
felt very guilty for that, forhaving searched for so many
other things, and one of thethings that was told to me was
like it wasn't for naught.
You know, you, you spent allthese years learning about all
these other faiths and all theseother.
You know agnostic beliefs andscientific beliefs and now the
amount of people that I now haveconversations with who are
(27:46):
struggling believers because ofsome scientific thing or some
you know other religious thing.
I have a lot of answers thatother people don't have.
I just I just have perspectivesthat other people don't have,
and not to say that they'rebetter or worse.
They're just different andthey're more attuned towards
people who feel like that, andyou know.
The same thing goes again, Ithink, if you're an, you're an
(28:07):
addict or if you're a gambling,or you know what are those
things are and you've overcomethem.
You know what it feels like tohave to overcome those and you
can talk to those people moredirectly.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's good.
Yeah, listen, if.
If you see us as a symbolic, uh, italian restaurant and you
want to spread what we do and wesay to other people, we would
love to.
We'd love to hear from you,we'd love to know what you think
of this episode and others,what you're thinking of for
future episodes.
We don't do Yelp reviews, butwe do Apple reviews.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yes, we do.
We do do Apple reviews.
If you see me as a garlic knot,that's exactly I'm a garlic row
.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I will never not, but we appreciate you and we can't
wait to see you next time.
Thanks guys, see you.
Speak to you next timeSomething.
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