July 23, 2025 • 39 mins
Tucker and Bicky, two remarkable young adults, join us to explore the story of Daniel through the lens of youth and its application to modern faith challenges.
• Daniel and his three friends maintained their faith and identity while living in a foreign, secular culture
• Daniel likely came from a royal lineage, explaining his selection for the Babylonian court
• The refusal to eat the king's food demonstrated a commitment to God's ways despite worldly pressure
• Their steadfastness resulted in God's blessing—they appeared healthier than those eating the royal food
• The fiery furnace story reveals God's presence with us during trials, not exemption from them
• Daniel's teachings to Zoroastrian priests likely influenced the Magi who later sought Jesus
• Modern youth face similar struggles with temptation but different challenges with technology and information overload
• Laziness and excessive "scrolling" represent a significant spiritual challenge for today's generation
• Finding community with like-minded believers provides critical support for maintaining faith
• God doesn't guarantee safety, but He guarantees His presence through our trials
Follow us for more intergenerational conversations about faith, wisdom, and living out biblical principles in today's world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome back to the BoundlessBible, guys.
How's it going?
We are lovely Today.
I am super excited.
Let me just set the stage.
So one of the things I do is Ivolunteer at a youth group at
(00:26):
church and now I say youth groupbut these are now two young
adults because they are movingup from their senior year to
college.
But there are two people that Ihad met who absolutely blew me
away.
They're brilliant.
They love the Lord.
Everything they do is justamazing and in a real Christlike
fashion.
Do is just amazing in a realChrist-like fashion.
(00:47):
So we had decided that we'dlove to invite them on and get a
youth perspective of some ofthe stories that we talk about.
So today we have Tucker andBicky.
How's it going, guys?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It's great.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Bicky, how are you?
I'm very good, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good.
So before we start just to kindof get some cobwebs out, I'm
going to ask you a simplequestion.
Do you like?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Old or New Testament more Well, the thing is, I think
New Testament is a lot morepractical, time-based-wise,
whereas the Old Testament ismore like the, I guess, stories
that show the morals that welearn in the New Testament, as
well as the Gospels and Acts andstuff like that.
But I like reading the NewTestament.
I just think it's morepractical for daily use.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I can completely agree with Tucker on that.
Yeah, I lean more towards theNew Testament, usually All right
.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's good.
So today we're going to go overthe story of Daniel.
One of the really cool thingsis Daniel actually started off
as a teenager when he was takento Babylon.
So before I actually explainthe story, I'm just going to
kick it off to you guys.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about Daniel and the story
of Daniel, and what you know andwhat you don't know?
No, pressure, let's start there, no pressure.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, honestly, I just think it's a really
beautiful story because it'sfour friends who were taken to a
secular land and they were allof the royal bloodline as well,
which is why they were pickedfor being, you know, part of
what the king wanted, you know,as servants that would teach him
the culture and stuff of theirland.
So I think it's just reallyinteresting how they were
brought into such a secularculture.
You know, it was like theleading secular culture of the
day and it reminds me a lot ofour own culture and it's just
(02:25):
really cool how they managed tostay strong and not really worry
about it but instead just prayand trust in God the entire time
as well.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Agreed.
I love the fact that he glossedright over it, but that is
actually something that mostpeople don't know is that Daniel
probably came from the Royalline for him to be in the court,
to be trained in that way,probably meant that he had some
sort of training that put himthere, and that would have been
a royal line.
So you know, vicki, let me askyou, you know, being that these
(02:54):
were teenagers that were broughtfrom their home to a foreign
land and they were refusing tolive that way, what does that
mean to you were?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
refusing to live that way.
What does that mean to you?
So when, when you put it thatway specifically, I would think
like how I could relate it tomaybe like a teenager's life, or
like something that I've beenthrough personally was like
moving new school, like movingto a new school, something like
that.
I did that my freshman year.
I moved from Hialeah to BrowardCounty.
So, um, yeah, and I rightbefore, um, right before ninth
(03:32):
grade, I was actually heavily inmy word, but then the new
people that I met going into myschool, they automatically like
strayed me away from that and Ithink I think if I would have
read Daniel previously, likeduring that time of my life, I
(03:54):
think it would have shown melike that I have my own identity
in Christ and that the peoplearound me do really influence.
And I should have yeah, Ishould have stuck with that,
yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What's interesting is another fact that a lot of
people don't know is that youknow, daniel was also respected
in this court in Babylon.
It wasn't as though he wasrespected in his land back in
Israel, but, you know, when youlook at him in Babylon, he was
respected, respected and one ofthe people that respected him
with the zoroastrian priests, um, and what these a lot of
scholars believe these becamewere the magi um.
(04:33):
So he would have been teachingthem um about the prophecies and
they would have been waitingfor the messiah.
Oh, wow, um.
So when?
you look at the new testament,the magi who were looking for
this.
This would have originally comefrom Daniel and him holding
fast to his beliefs and thingslike that.
So, yeah, it definitely is oneof those cool things where, if
you hold to your belief the wayDaniel did, you never know the
(04:54):
influence that you can have.
You're talking about influenceyou know a thousand years later.
Totally, you planted the seedright for the Magi to do it, and
now we have the story of Jesusand how he was found, which is
pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think your point too was that it's important who
you surround yourself right andit's important that Daniel
wasn't the only person in thestory.
He also had my three favoritenamed people in the Bible
Shadrach, meshach and Abednego.
But I love that he had themaround him as well.
It wasn't just him.
I love that he had them aroundhim as well, it wasn't just him.
I mean, you have to besteadfast to your belief, right,
you have to be, you have to be,you have to, you have to.
It's you and God against theworld, right In some cases, but
(05:31):
in in this case he also had acommunity.
He had a community of peoplewho came with him from the, from
the old country.
He got to watch them succeed bygoing through the fire and then
that's another step for him tojust have that extra faith.
It's just that, another,another way to speak about
community.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Yeah, that's cool.
That's another way of sayingright, Iron shopper, iron kind
of thing Right, especially inthe fire.
Right.
It says here in Daniel what one17,.
It says to these four young men, god gave knowledge and
understanding of all kinds ofliterature and learning.
Yeah, so they were all you knowthat maybe not the same level,
maybe there were, but at leastthey were able to talk about god
(06:10):
, talk about the learnings, talkabout different things, and
they were able to just be in thesame accord, which I think is
valuable.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think that's a cool point and speaking of you know
how you you really like thosethree names.
I think that really shows theculture of the time as well, how
, um, yeah, the four of them,their names were changed from
Daniel to Belshazzar, and thenHananiah, azariah and Mishael
were all changed to basicallythe opposite of what their names
have been, because it reallyshows how they completely wanted
(06:39):
to stamp out the culture thatthey were from, but they just
couldn't manage it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, and the meaning of those names actually has
other meaning too.
I don't want to go into thatyeah.
The meaning, the meanings inthe in the Babylonian means
something.
It's the God.
I think it refers to certaingods.
I think Mithra was one of them.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, in Hebrew, their names Daniel is God is my
judge.
Hananiah would have been yahwehis gracious.
Michelle is um, pretty much iswhat god is it is, which means
nobody can ever compare to god,right, um?
And then azria is uh, yahweh ishelp, um.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So you're talking about four people who were named
properly for a purpose rightand then and then tried to have
that name stamped out in thesecular culture well, not
secular culture, the otherreligious culture, to be honest,
and you know, for the sake ofdismissing those previous names,
I mean this is the names in theBible alone like what they mean
and how they set up stories.
(07:31):
There's so many things thatthey're adding into the story.
I love it All right, so Idigress.
No, no, so you know.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You now have Daniel, who and his three friends who
refuse to live the way that theBabylonians are living and his
three friends who refuse to livethe way that the Babylonians
are living.
They refuse to eat their food,the meat in the court.
They refuse to drink the wine,they just want vegetables.
And you see that God providesfor them and they are healthier
than the people who are actuallyeating the meat and wine.
The Daniel fast.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Is that really what the Daniel fast is about?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Well, I don't think it's there, I think it's when he
goes to the den or something.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
well, I'm jumping ahead no, he did, he did fast
and and uh pray, but that wasduring darius that was later on.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, right now we're not at that point we're not
there.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I want to um but, yes , you have this really
incredible story of four peopledefying, uh a, you know, a ruler
that rule over them, get themfrom their home.
Yeah, um, let me ask you guys,what does that mean to you?
To disobey, knowing that you'reactually following God, but
maybe disobeying the world?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, it just means, honestly, that sometimes there
are people in this world whojust don't follow God's plan,
basically.
But we have to be strong, evenwhenever we're in the position
where we're under the authorityof people who don't follow God's
plan basically.
But we have to be strong evenwhenever we're in the position
where we're under the authorityof people who don't accept it.
You know, jesus said give toCaesar what is Caesar's.
And again, david and Saul.
Like David still respected Saulbecause he was the Lord's
(08:55):
anointed, even though he didn'tagree with what Saul was doing
and, let's be honest, god didn'teither, which is why Saul was
eventually put out of his place.
But we still have to respectthese people and act with love
towards them, even if we aren'tfollowing what they want for us.
Like you know, if Davidfollowed what Saul wanted for
him, david would have died inthe court.
But David still respected Sauland loved him and, again,
(09:18):
wouldn't touch him, even to thepoint of just cutting off a bit
of his robe and repenting for it.
But he still respected him andacted in love towards Saul.
And that eventually, well, atone point it changed Saul's
heart.
And then Saul went back tobeing Saul, of course.
But you know, we just we haveto not conform but be, I guess,
(09:38):
in the world so that people cansee us, see how we've been
changed by Christ and maybe be,you know, convinced by our good
deeds and glorify our father inheaven.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Vicki, let me ask you , you know cause?
You just mentioned the storyabout how you were following the
world instead of Jesus and andobviously you had some thoughts
about that and saying, man, Ishould have followed the Lord.
But now that you're followingthe Lord fully, what advice
would you give to somebody whois struggling with that, who's
going hey, the world is lookingreally really good right now and
(10:09):
you're asking me to follow theLord, what advice would you give
them if they're looking tostray?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I mean, there are plenty of times where I have
fallen, and every time I fall Ijust have to run back to the
Lord because because there'snothing like him, like nothing
like truly nothing can eversatisfy besides him, and when
you fall away from him youabsolutely just feel empty.
You think that you may belacking something that the world
can give you, but it won'tsatisfy.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
All the glitters is not gold right.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
That's good.
Now we're going to kind of jumpinto.
You have the three friends, um,they are love the guys.
They are still denyingfollowing the laws and the rules
that babylon wants them tofollow.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Um, and they get tossed into a furnace, a fiery
furnace and it should be notedthat it's seven times hotter
than, which is, by the way, notrealistic or possible, but yeah
seven times.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It might have been the same flame with the burning
bush.
I mean really hot well, that's.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
That's actually one of the illusions there.
Right is the fact that the,that the the flames are
engulfing something withoutdestroying that thing, so
there's an illusion to theburning bush, right there.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So we have the three friends tossed in and then a
fourth image emerges.
Tell me, guys, what you guys,everybody here, you know what
you think.
Who is this Cause there's?
There is debate over who thisfourth figure is that goes in
with them.
What do you guys think?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, there's an easy answer here.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Easy answer for the for the for the last easy answer
.
I view it in the same way asJacob's angel Lord.
You know, I think it's Christjust incarnate before in his
glorified form, just as heappeared on the mountain with a
couple of his disciples.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Easy, yeah, look, I mean Jesus is the one that comes
to Christian's mind, right, theJewish people would have
thought that it was an angel ofthe Lord, and I think both of
those can be the same thing.
I say a lot on this podcast.
It's not this or that,sometimes this and that, and I
think this is a this and thatmoment, right, like even if the
angel was Jesus in that moment,the people who were seeing it
(12:21):
wouldn't have understood it asJesus.
So to them it was an angel.
An angel, and to futuregenerations who had the
opportunity to have moreinformation, more backstory,
their back knowledge, it becomesjesus yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Something really interesting, though, is whenever
king nebuchadnezzar saw thisimage, he said wow, it's
something like this a son of thegods.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, the word, the word, son right, yeah, is that
what it says in hebrew?
I'm actually in Hebrew, does itactually?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
say the word son, yeah, or is this a bit of a no
the?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
translation is correct.
Translatorism where they werelike eh son, sounds good there.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Nope, nope, the translation is correct and he
does.
He sees this as a divine personinside with them, which leads
me to another question, which iswhere did Daniel go?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Javi, that's good pointing at you uh, why my
ecumenical bible says that itwas likely that that story was
actually added later, that itwas a tradition story, and that
it was later because, by the way, the book of Daniel was written
over like 600 years.
Right, it was like started inlike the six uh 600s, I think
(13:30):
over 400 years, think between600 and 130 BC or something like
that.
And so you know, the story doesevolve over time based on the
writing styles, the languages.
Even part of this was writtenin Aramaic, if you read that
part.
So this story they're sayingbecause of the fact that
Daniel's not in it, it lookslike this was a standalone story
(13:53):
.
That was also same, you know,same background, same context,
but at some point they justfolded together with the same
for me what I get out of itright away.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It's daniel was the one that was interpreting dreams
.
He was valuable tonebuchadnezzar, where the other
three didn't really bringanything extra, in a sense.
Um so for them not buying down,not giving into the babylonian
way, they threw them in thefurnace where daniel was.
(14:21):
I'm gonna hold on to this guybecause this guy can interpret
dreams.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, he's useful yep , because he was useful and they
were like well no, no furnace,for According to the Midrash and
the Talmud, he was actually ona trip that the royal court sent
him on a trip, okay, and that'swhere he was.
So he was communicating withother places that needed his
communication style.
Oh, interesting.
So he actually wasn't therewhen they were thrown in.
(14:48):
If he was, he would have beenthrown in.
I don't think it would havemade a difference to their
saving grace of not beingconsumed by the fire, right, uh?
But again, now we have threedifferent thoughts of where
daniel was.
But, um, he definitely was notthere, uh, and it's just always
interesting because when youstart to look into it, you know
where where are these people,you know where were his three
(15:08):
friends later on, when danielwas thrown the lion's den, and
you start to think about thesethings.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, look, that's really what happens to us in our
lives too.
Right, we have our.
As I said earlier, you haveyour community, your community's
around you, but they're notalways there when you need them.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Ouch.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But they're not.
And I don't mean that in a badway, I don't mean like, oh, they
heard something went wrong andthey eschewed you and ran the
other direction.
I'm just saying sometimesthey're just not there.
Sometimes it's a battle you gotto fight yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Are either of you familiar with the dream that
Daniel had translated forNebuchadnezzar?
Speaker 5 (15:46):
Weren't there multiple.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
There were.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
There were, but particularly the golden head one
.
The statue, yeah, the statue,definitely why?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
don't you tell us about?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I'm not that familiar , I was going to say that's a
lot of details.
There's four different kinds ofmetals.
The last one wasn't gold.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
At the top it's like silver below, and then I want to
say bronze all I remember is itends on iron and clay bronze
stone and clay bronze, stone andclay.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Thanks for correcting me so.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I think, but when you look at at this dream, you look
at all the different dreams.
Um, they all have a similarity.
Yeah, and why don't you talkabout the similarity more than
the particular dream?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I mean honestly the same thing is.
It's just Nebuchadnezzar, likewell, obviously he's having the
dream interpreted for him.
So it's partially, you know,due to him.
Just in the second one, wherehe was going to be, I think it
was a great tree that was cutdown by something of the Lord.
I don't remember exactly.
But basically it's all justNebuchadnezzar's pride blinds
(16:46):
him to the crumbling of, I guess, his empire.
You know he has a mighty empire.
He has a great golden head inone, he has a big tree in
another, but God is so powerfulthat he's going to break that
down, even though by worldlystandards, you know that's an
empire that'll never fall.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
The empire, I think came down because of the sun,
really His sun, yeah his sun.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I was like wait, we have one son.
We have one son, sorry,nebuchadnezzar's son.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It was.
It came Balthazar, I think itwas.
Yeah, yeah, oh, there you go.
So yeah, I think it came downbecause of him, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Nebuchadnezzar goes crazy, and Well, because on, so
he, which is why it's his sonwho doesn't accept, who become,
who stays prideful, yeah, um,where the kingdom actually comes
down, god knows it, and he says, okay, now he's sending in the
persians who are going to takeover, right, um, so it it is.
You know, when you look atnebuchadnezzar, you go, okay, he
(17:44):
was this ruler, um, but was itreally that bad he?
He had given room in his courtfor the captives, yeah, um, he
listened to one of themeventually, um, so this is to me
, is is not a bad ruler, right,um, but it is somebody who, uh,
I mean he he was brutal.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
I'm not saying he's a good guy.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I wouldn't, go hanging out with him um, but as
far as rulers be fair.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
He's really nice if you're in his upper court and
things are good Everybody elsehad it garbage, but you know,
that's just the way that works.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But what ends up happening is sometimes and this
is a question also about theworld it appeals to some people.
You go hey, in your court, Iget meat and wine, I get.
All I have to do is, you know,is bow to you or your God, but I
get all these other things.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I think it's the great temptation I was going to
say how, how much like the realworld's that all you have to do
is everything I tell you to doand you're going to be fat and
happy and drunk and you're goingto have women all around and
things are going to be great.
All good, no, it's cool, just dowhat I say.
And you're like, oh, I likewomen and and drinks and drugs
and alcohol, and like I likethat kind of thing.
Like, and you're so driven byyour, by your flesh and by your
(18:59):
synapse and by your hormones andby your, that we're not
stopping and saying, like Ishould be following God, Like I
shouldn't be tempted, like this.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's a great temptation.
So and that's my question is,how do you stop, when you have
that temptation of nothing, thatthat is appearing to you as
harmful?
In the beginning it seems likeactually fun.
How do you?
Speaker 5 (19:18):
stop when I was difficult for the world to, not
for the world, but it'sdifficult that the world off of
these things, and if you don'tdo it, you're the Ottoman,
you're the outcast.
Yeah, You're the outcast.
You're the.
You're the four.
You're the outcast.
You're the.
You're the four.
You're daniel and his friend Ican't say their names, so daniel
and his friends you know,you're them four, you know, and
that wants to like look at youguys, you guys getting ridiculed
(19:39):
, you guys, right, different,you know.
Or like modern day right,you're a christian, you're
walking around with this cross,you're kind of weird and you,
you know, maybe you smell funny,no, but I'm joking.
I'm joking but like you know,those things that could be very
hard, especially as a youth, asa young adult.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Right, still trying to find your place.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
You know what.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I'm still going to hold on to what I believe
Totally, because I think God hasa better plan.
God, his way, is sovereign, isbetter rather than what the
world offers.
How do you guys navigate?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
that.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So, like, the one thing that I've been told
throughout my life, when I'veasked that question for myself,
is remember, like, remember howhe's helped me before, remember,
like the pain that I have gonethrough that he's lifted me out
of.
And like seeing the things thathe does all around us, reading
the Bible, seeing what he's donefor others.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
So yeah, my thing would be remember, I mean me
personally, I learned the hardway.
I was.
I was an atheist until about ayear and a half ago.
You know, I'd grown up in thechurch but I never really had
faith and then I just completelylost it, thought it was stupid
and I tried all the things ofthe world.
You know like I had some fun, Ithought, man, this is great,
but at the same time I wascrippled by anxiety, depression.
(20:49):
You know all the things of theworld that people talk about,
how good they are, you know youeventually get disillusioned to.
You know how good they trulyare, and I think that's a big
testament to how we were created, you know, because we weren't
created for the things of thisworld.
We were created to worship God.
We were created for somethingbigger than anything that the
world has to offer.
So eventually, you know, I'mnot saying, try the world and if
(21:15):
you don't like it, come toChrist, but I'm saying I have
tried the world and I liked it,but it ruined me and I realized,
yeah, sin is fun for a season,but God is great for all time.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's amazing how quickwe can desensitize to the thing
the first time we do that sinfulthing and we go, oh, this is
fun, but the second time it'snot as fun and you got to do
more of it, and the next timeyou got to do more and like
there's, there's, we're.
We're infinitely unsatisfiablecreatures.
With things of the world we'reinfinitely unsatisfiable.
There's no amount of fame orInstagram presence or, or you
(21:46):
know literally any number of youknow sinful things.
There's no, none of them aresatisfied.
You've been down that road andyou said you know, I'm not
telling people to go do thesesins and then find God, but the
reality is most people have donethem, whether they tried or not
right, whether they've indulgedthemselves in things before,
and they found that there's justno good at the end of that.
There's no light at the end ofthat tunnel.
There's far more darkness inthe end of that tunnel.
(22:06):
And when you do what, like yousaid, to remember, when you
remember the peace that you havewith God, when you remember the
kindness that you feel forothers because God has been kind
to you, when you feel what it'slike to forgive others because
God has forgiven you for thethings that you've screwed up.
That remembrance is everythingand it's just like founding,
(22:28):
literally fundamental, likefounding purposes in your life
and holding onto those.
And it's a huge thing.
And that's what daniel did.
We're pulling it back right.
That's that's what daniel did.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Daniel never let go of his fundamentals yeah, I'm
gonna say, I always say it's uh,temptation is temporary and
only when you let go is whenyou're really living it's true
and I and I feel like with whenyou do those things, when you
let go of that and you followthe faith, it's also good just
like Daniel has his friends tofind a community that is
(22:57):
like-minded, a community that'sgrounded in God, that you'll be
able to also grow from and feelokay, that you're all letting go
of that temptation, you're allwalking the same path and trying
your best to do that and notfeel outcast and really find a
community in that.
I think we all need it.
I think God made us forrelationships and when we dive
(23:17):
into further our faith, the morewe need to build those
relationships of people that arelike-minded.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
What's amazing to me is, you know, I sit here as a
man with a white beard and it'seasy for me to look back and go
yes, you need to give up the sin, you need to follow the Lord,
you need to do these things.
I'm also at the point in my lifewhere peer pressure is almost
nothing.
It doesn't really exist in myworld anymore.
But I'm looking at two peoplewho are teenagers who, like
(23:45):
Daniel whether he was 14 to 18,they have him estimated at had
this conviction that I did nothave in my, in my teens.
Um, and it's a much differentworld now.
I think it's even harder now.
Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm amazed atDaniel's conviction.
But then, looking at you guys,you know it's one of the main
reasons I want you here is justto just to hear the conviction
(24:05):
that you have, um, still kind ofgrowing into who you're going
to be and what this world has tooffer, and saying you know what
, I know what this world has tooffer and it has to offer God,
and that's where I've, you know,that's where I've directed my
life.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Amen, Um, it's, it's amazing, Um yeah, with the stuff
that's going on now, with thedistraction of like everything,
of like just content everywhere,it's like it just throws you
off so much.
And not only that, it's, it'snot only it's a lot, it's
everywhere and it's just full ofinformation.
Which is great, I think, iswe're living in a really great
time.
But you also got to discern.
(24:40):
You also got to really knowwhat.
What are you reading, what areyou hearing?
Even this podcast, like thestuff that we say, I think is
good for someone to take it in,chew on it and really you know,
understand that.
You know what's, what's right,what's wrong, whatever it is not
saying that we say anythingwrong, but just really discern
for yourself and seek god andall those things if I could play
(25:01):
that game too.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I mean, I think the challenge that you guys have now
is that there is so much noiseyeah, there's so much noise and
there's so much distraction fromthe truth.
And, like you said you, youknow it yourself.
Vicky, you said I, I know whatI felt when I was in my word, I
know what I felt and I, andthat's what I hold on to.
And the problem is, it's reallyhard to hold on to something
(25:24):
when you're trying to grab it.
A hundred other things, when,when, when you can't keep both
hands on on on a precious item,when your hands are also trying
to grab out and grab otherthings.
And so, whether it's a podcast,whether it's being in your word
, whether it's being aroundothers, whether it's being in
Bible studies or groups, or evenjust surrounding yourself with
people who help you to keep yourhands around, that thing is so
(25:46):
important as you guys moveforward, because if you don't,
there's a whole lot to grab for.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Oh yeah, I think you guys were talking about how it's
more difficult in our currentculture to follow God, and I
think maybe not instead of that,but as well as that, it's very
different than how it was,because we have so much access
to information now that we canTrue, I think so many people are
being, you know, turned offfrom, I guess, the worldly
(26:13):
things in that people are seeing.
You know how bad it gets likeyou know I'm not sure how much
I'm allowed to say here, butlike fentanyl is being added to
drugs.
You know so many addictingthings that are just terrible.
They kill you and it's so quickas well, and it can be, you
know you go from a happy, youknow, 19 year old one day to a
dead one and five hours later noway and we're just getting
(26:36):
disillusioned with the world.
But at the same time, a bigspirit of laziness has been
overcoming the world.
I this might surprise you guys,because you guys aren't super
like I I mean, you have kids, sowhatever but I know a lot of
people who don't have anyhobbies other than scrolling.
I know a lot of people whodon't spend time outside, don't
(26:59):
spend time.
You know, sometimes, in God'sword, whenever they're around
people they do these things, butthey don't have a single hobby
and if you're not with them, ifthey're by themselves, they're
not going to do anything butscroll the internet and look at
this stuff and see how otherpeople live.
And man, hey, I really want tobe a part of that, but they're
(27:19):
so lazy that they're not willingto do it and I think that was a
big problem and it still is abig problem with myself.
You know, just, laziness is thespirit of this generation.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, it's one of the seven deadly sins.
Right, laziness and sloth isone of the deadly sins.
I mean, and this is why I heardsomebody say recently I think
it was Cliff Nectal I love thatdude I think he said that you
know, laziness is a sin againstGod, because you're essentially
saying that you haven't given meanything worth going out and
looking for or worth looking outand going for.
(27:50):
I can't take credit for thatone, tim, but but.
But it's solid, because I neverrealized that you're really
saying, like, we're sitting inhere right now.
Right, we're in this room andI'm looking outside and there's
a lake and there's birds, andthere's trees, and there's a,
and there's there's grass, and Icould go play golf right now or
riding a bike.
I mean, there's a hundredthings I could do.
So me sitting in here obviouslyI'm having a podcast right now,
but if I'm sitting herescrolling to my phone, I'm
(28:12):
basically saying none of that'simportant, none of that is
beautiful, none of that's good,none of that's worth it.
It's just I'd rather be sittinghere looking at other people
doing their things instead of medoing it.
And so I hear that.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I hear that I'm um and then we're going to kind of
move really quickly into alsowhat I see some of the youth
doing right now.
So the ones that are not lazyare really getting into these
movements.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
The ones that are not lazy are not lazy.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
What a segue they're getting into movements, they're
actually moving and doingsomething.
You see, you know the Hope forRevivals and things like that,
daniel, under Darius um, when hegets tossed into the lion's den
, which, by the way, uh, youknow, we have now moved closer
(28:57):
to my age than when he started,because then, now, estimating
him to be out 70 years old, ohreally, oh.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So like your exact age, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But no, I mean, if he's your size.
Now I understand why the lionsdidn't go after him.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
They.
Why the?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
lions didn't go after him.
They would be scared of you orvery brittle.
I don't want the old scale, butno, what ends up happening is a
lot of people think that Danielis still a youth when he gets
tossed in a lion's den.
He's actually probably around 70years old, based on how long
these kings would have reigned.
So, right at the end, whereDaniel's about 70 years old
Darius tells all the decree wasthat everyone had to bow to
darius, and what daniel did ishe went back to his room, window
(29:35):
open, uh, pointed towardsjerusalem and he prayed.
And he could have prayed inprivate there's nothing against
levitical law about him prayingin private um, but he prayed
publicly and this was a movement.
This was him defying dariuspublicly.
Um, and now I'm asking you guysfor, for those that are not
lazy in your generation, um,who's picking up?
You know really their, their,their stance and saying listen,
(29:59):
we want a movement, we want touh share the gospel, we want to
uh do what Daniel didn't, justreally dig into their faith.
Um, what are you guys seeing inyour generation?
What are you guys talking about?
What are some of thoseconversations that happen about
you know, kind of followingDaniel and saying, no, we're
putting our foot down publicly.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
The first thing that comes to my mind is like when we
used to do first priority inschool, you would get kids every
day praying, asking forboldness.
Right, because we all want tomake an effort in our schools,
right, to start just being morebold and saying, hey, look like
you look sad, you need some help.
(30:38):
Like I know something that canhelp you, right, like so yeah,
boldness immediately comes to mymind when I hear like teenagers
wanting to start a movement.
They're praying for that.
They're asking God to just givethem the words to speak.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I'm going to sound really nerdy when I say this,
but in our culture today wenotice a lot of people saying,
hey, live your truth, you know.
So what I try to do, which isalways a ton of fun whenever I'm
talking to people, because Imeet a lot of people and they
say something I'm like, reallyyou don't believe that, but I
like setting the philosophicalfoundations for objective,
(31:19):
absolute truth, and I thinkwhenever people accept that, it
becomes really simple to,whenever you set that foundation
, you can then set thefoundation of Christ as well.
(31:41):
So I like setting movementswhere, you know, I get people
talking about that kind of stuff, whether it's, you know,
evangelists like myself or justanybody who wants to talk to
other people in any situationlike that.
You know, I was back before.
I lived in Florida.
I was surrounded by people whomI considered incredibly smart,
and none of them were believersin Christ, and that really
(32:04):
changed me and I became anatheist I don't want to say
because of it, but that wasdefinitely a big factor.
An atheist, I don't want to saybecause of it, but that was
definitely a big factor.
And so I think whenever we'resurrounded by people who they
seem so smart, so worldly, youknow, like worldly wisdom.
You know, think of JohnBunyan's, you know he sounded so
great but at the same time heleads people astray, and I think
that's what worldly wisdom does.
(32:25):
So if we set absolute truth andthen present the evidence, I
think it just becomes reallyeasy to start a movement where
people see that it has value andthat it can be used Totally.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yeah, I like that, I love that you guys do that.
I think the bonus of havingthat at your age to go out and
do that I think I see Daniel inthat.
As you see in the story, Danielis faithful, he's not going to
go against his God and Godblesses that.
He protects them, he watchesover them, there's provision
over them and he takes care ofthem right.
(32:57):
And I think you guys could restassured and even for us, any
Christian out there could restassured that when we stand up
for what we believe towards Godand just kind of like really
doing our best to follow God, inthat sense, God will bless it,
God will bless us in our path.
There will be ups and downs, aswe see in the story with Daniel.
I mean, being in the lion's denis a scary thing, but coming
(33:20):
out of it wow, you could really.
You can't.
You can only bless God for thatright.
You can only go well.
God can only do that.
We even see that withNebuchadnezzar right.
You can only go well, God canonly do that.
We even see that withNebuchadnezzar right.
When the guys go into thefurnace and they come out,
Nebuchadnezzar's like it had tobe God that took you out of that
.
You know, and that's what it isby being a light, that's what
it is by having a testimony thatno one can say anything about,
(33:42):
that you coming out of.
That is only God, and I thinkthat's a great thing that you
guys stand firm in that, and Godwill bless it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think, if we're getting close to wrapping up
here, I think one of the thingsthat I find really important is
something we said earlier, whichis that these four men were
brought in for, and I went to gofind what it says.
It says they were handsome inappearance, skillful in all
wisdom and endowed withintelligence and discernment.
I think that that intelligenceand ability to discern comes
(34:10):
from the faith that they have inGod, and wisdom is the
foundation for all of it.
We have entire books of theBible which are dedicated to
wisdom.
So you know wisdom to yourpoint.
A minute ago, you know, you meetthese intelligent people and
they're smart and they'rethoughtful, but they're worldly
smart and they're worldlythoughtful, but they're not wise
.
They're not supported bythousands and thousands of years
(34:31):
of other people who've gonethrough it and were able to
record it and, by the way, theydid so because they were taking
it from the being that createdwisdom, which isn't the right
foundation.
It's not based around thatabsolute truth, and so, for me,
this is that whole thing whereChristianity offers a foundation
.
It offers a foundation thatwill give you wisdom at times.
(34:51):
It will give youthought-provoking things that
you can discern and experiencefor yourself.
Proverbs is not about knowing,it's about doing, and the more
that you do these things, themore you learn them.
It's the experience of them,and this is how you become like
Daniel.
This is how you do it.
You commit yourself to thefaith, you commit yourself to
the scripture.
You commit yourself to thefaith.
(35:16):
You commit yourself to thescripture, you commit yourself
to the executing what the faithis telling you you should be
doing, and then you earn theknowledge.
I know you guys don't like theold testament, but go back to
those wisdom books and read uhsong of solomon.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
read uh, not song of solomon uh, not song of solomon,
sorry, I'm a little young.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Sorry, yeah, not song of solomon I was in I songs, I
was in the wisdom books in myhead, sorry.
Read Proverbs and readEcclesiastes, and the things
that you will see are yeah wrong.
Book, job and Job.
What you'll find is thateverything you need for life is
right there.
That's the foundation.
That is the foundation for it,and then you build your life
around Christ using thatfoundation.
(35:50):
That is the foundation for it.
And then you build your lifearound Christ using that
foundation.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I mean, it's really hard not to win.
I'll just kind of end offsaying that Daniel is actually
one of the few people in theBible who is not recorded with
sin.
Really, yeah, he's one of theones who's not recorded
committing any sin, and what itreads to me is not that he was
perfect, because we know that hedid sin, he did repent.
It's not that that's not thestory, but the story I'm reading
(36:14):
.
Is even somebody as faithful asDaniel that he still went
through troubles?
He was still somebody who wastaken from his home, putting
into a court that he didn't wantto be in, living a life he
didn't want to live being thrownin a lion's den.
He lived a life, believe it ornot, in the Midrash and Talmud
as well.
They also have him as a eunuch.
They said that yeah they saidthat he was a eunuch.
(36:35):
I didn't know that.
So you now have somebody whohad a really tough life but
still trusted God through it all.
And if I can just ask you guyskind of one last sign off thing
is just when you hear about that, when you hear about you know
following God, even though lifeis not always, uh, the easiest,
um, how do you keep yourconviction to God?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I mean, of course, we remember the evidence for the
faith and whenever we do that,whenever we truly have, you know
, like belief, it's easy to havefaith because whenever you see,
you know all that God's done,it's hard not to love him hard,
not to want to apply what youlearn, not to love him hard, not
to want to apply what you learn.
And again, you know, if youhave that great faith, then you
(37:15):
can just read your Bible and beinsanely convicted.
You know, one of my favoriteverses in the entire Bible is
Jesus said I have told you thesethings so that in me you may
have peace in this world.
You will have trouble, but takeheart, I've overcome the world.
And that's just what we have toremember.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And Vicki, if, if, if there was again, with the world
being what it is and you havinguh struggles in this world, how
can you still remain faithfulto Christ?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Um, so when I was reading Daniel six and Daniel
three, I believe what I got likewhat?
What was put on my heart wasthat God doesn't like guarantee
safety, but he guarantees hispresence, like throughout our
life.
So, yeah, we're going to getthrown in the fire sometimes
because of us being obedientright To him and not to the
(38:07):
world, but he's going to be withus.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So Amen, amazing.
Thank you so much.
This has been an incredibleepisode.
I really appreciate you guysfor coming in.
Thank, you guys, thanks guys.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
We, we always enjoy doing this, and having new
friends with us makes it evenmore fun.
We get new ideas thrown inthere.
We get to see how differentpeople approach the faith, how
different people approach life.
Uh, how old we are, that's animportant part of us to remember
.
And uh, for those of you whoare listening, who are young, uh
, we appreciate your listening.
We hope you listen to peoplelike we have on here, and if
(38:40):
you're old, we hope you'relistening to them too, because
that's what's coming next.
Uh, thanks for everything.
Uh, thanks for the time, thanksfor the consideration.
We appreciate your likes,comments, shares, follows,
reviews you name it.
We appreciate you and we'lltalk to you next week.
Thank you, bye, see you guys.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome back to the BoundlessBible, guys.
How's it going?
We are lovely Today.
I am super excited.
Let me just set the stage.
So one of the things I do is Ivolunteer at a youth group at
(00:26):
church and now I say youth groupbut these are now two young
adults because they are movingup from their senior year to
college.
But there are two people that Ihad met who absolutely blew me
away.
They're brilliant.
They love the Lord.
Everything they do is justamazing and in a real Christlike
fashion.
Do is just amazing in a realChrist-like fashion.
(00:47):
So we had decided that we'dlove to invite them on and get a
youth perspective of some ofthe stories that we talk about.
So today we have Tucker andBicky.
How's it going, guys?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It's great.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Bicky, how are you?
I'm very good, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Good.
So before we start just to kindof get some cobwebs out, I'm
going to ask you a simplequestion.
Do you like?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Old or New Testament more Well, the thing is, I think
New Testament is a lot morepractical, time-based-wise,
whereas the Old Testament ismore like the, I guess, stories
that show the morals that welearn in the New Testament, as
well as the Gospels and Acts andstuff like that.
But I like reading the NewTestament.
I just think it's morepractical for daily use.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I can completely agree with Tucker on that.
Yeah, I lean more towards theNew Testament, usually All right
.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's good.
So today we're going to go overthe story of Daniel.
One of the really cool thingsis Daniel actually started off
as a teenager when he was takento Babylon.
So before I actually explainthe story, I'm just going to
kick it off to you guys.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about Daniel and the story
of Daniel, and what you know andwhat you don't know?
No, pressure, let's start there, no pressure.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, honestly, I just think it's a really
beautiful story because it'sfour friends who were taken to a
secular land and they were allof the royal bloodline as well,
which is why they were pickedfor being, you know, part of
what the king wanted, you know,as servants that would teach him
the culture and stuff of theirland.
So I think it's just reallyinteresting how they were
brought into such a secularculture.
You know, it was like theleading secular culture of the
day and it reminds me a lot ofour own culture and it's just
(02:25):
really cool how they managed tostay strong and not really worry
about it but instead just prayand trust in God the entire time
as well.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Agreed.
I love the fact that he glossedright over it, but that is
actually something that mostpeople don't know is that Daniel
probably came from the Royalline for him to be in the court,
to be trained in that way,probably meant that he had some
sort of training that put himthere, and that would have been
a royal line.
So you know, vicki, let me askyou, you know, being that these
(02:54):
were teenagers that were broughtfrom their home to a foreign
land and they were refusing tolive that way, what does that
mean to you were?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
refusing to live that way.
What does that mean to you?
So when, when you put it thatway specifically, I would think
like how I could relate it tomaybe like a teenager's life, or
like something that I've beenthrough personally was like
moving new school, like movingto a new school, something like
that.
I did that my freshman year.
I moved from Hialeah to BrowardCounty.
So, um, yeah, and I rightbefore, um, right before ninth
(03:32):
grade, I was actually heavily inmy word, but then the new
people that I met going into myschool, they automatically like
strayed me away from that and Ithink I think if I would have
read Daniel previously, likeduring that time of my life, I
(03:54):
think it would have shown melike that I have my own identity
in Christ and that the peoplearound me do really influence.
And I should have yeah, Ishould have stuck with that,
yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
What's interesting is another fact that a lot of
people don't know is that youknow, daniel was also respected
in this court in Babylon.
It wasn't as though he wasrespected in his land back in
Israel, but, you know, when youlook at him in Babylon, he was
respected, respected and one ofthe people that respected him
with the zoroastrian priests, um, and what these a lot of
scholars believe these becamewere the magi um.
(04:33):
So he would have been teachingthem um about the prophecies and
they would have been waitingfor the messiah.
Oh, wow, um.
So when?
you look at the new testament,the magi who were looking for
this.
This would have originally comefrom Daniel and him holding
fast to his beliefs and thingslike that.
So, yeah, it definitely is oneof those cool things where, if
you hold to your belief the wayDaniel did, you never know the
(04:54):
influence that you can have.
You're talking about influenceyou know a thousand years later.
Totally, you planted the seedright for the Magi to do it, and
now we have the story of Jesusand how he was found, which is
pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think your point too was that it's important who
you surround yourself right andit's important that Daniel
wasn't the only person in thestory.
He also had my three favoritenamed people in the Bible
Shadrach, meshach and Abednego.
But I love that he had themaround him as well.
It wasn't just him.
I love that he had them aroundhim as well, it wasn't just him.
I mean, you have to besteadfast to your belief, right,
you have to be, you have to be,you have to, you have to.
It's you and God against theworld, right In some cases, but
(05:31):
in in this case he also had acommunity.
He had a community of peoplewho came with him from the, from
the old country.
He got to watch them succeed bygoing through the fire and then
that's another step for him tojust have that extra faith.
It's just that, another,another way to speak about
community.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Yeah, that's cool.
That's another way of sayingright, Iron shopper, iron kind
of thing Right, especially inthe fire.
Right.
It says here in Daniel what one17,.
It says to these four young men, god gave knowledge and
understanding of all kinds ofliterature and learning.
Yeah, so they were all you knowthat maybe not the same level,
maybe there were, but at leastthey were able to talk about god
(06:10):
, talk about the learnings, talkabout different things, and
they were able to just be in thesame accord, which I think is
valuable.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think that's a cool point and speaking of you know
how you you really like thosethree names.
I think that really shows theculture of the time as well, how
, um, yeah, the four of them,their names were changed from
Daniel to Belshazzar, and thenHananiah, azariah and Mishael
were all changed to basicallythe opposite of what their names
have been, because it reallyshows how they completely wanted
(06:39):
to stamp out the culture thatthey were from, but they just
couldn't manage it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, and the meaning of those names actually has
other meaning too.
I don't want to go into thatyeah.
The meaning, the meanings inthe in the Babylonian means
something.
It's the God.
I think it refers to certaingods.
I think Mithra was one of them.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, in Hebrew, their names Daniel is God is my
judge.
Hananiah would have been yahwehis gracious.
Michelle is um, pretty much iswhat god is it is, which means
nobody can ever compare to god,right, um?
And then azria is uh, yahweh ishelp, um.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So you're talking about four people who were named
properly for a purpose rightand then and then tried to have
that name stamped out in thesecular culture well, not
secular culture, the otherreligious culture, to be honest,
and you know, for the sake ofdismissing those previous names,
I mean this is the names in theBible alone like what they mean
and how they set up stories.
(07:31):
There's so many things thatthey're adding into the story.
I love it All right, so Idigress.
No, no, so you know.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You now have Daniel, who and his three friends who
refuse to live the way that theBabylonians are living and his
three friends who refuse to livethe way that the Babylonians
are living.
They refuse to eat their food,the meat in the court.
They refuse to drink the wine,they just want vegetables.
And you see that God providesfor them and they are healthier
than the people who are actuallyeating the meat and wine.
The Daniel fast.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Is that really what the Daniel fast is about?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Well, I don't think it's there, I think it's when he
goes to the den or something.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
well, I'm jumping ahead no, he did, he did fast
and and uh pray, but that wasduring darius that was later on.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Yeah, right now we're not at that point we're not
there.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I want to um but, yes , you have this really
incredible story of four peopledefying, uh a, you know, a ruler
that rule over them, get themfrom their home.
Yeah, um, let me ask you guys,what does that mean to you?
To disobey, knowing that you'reactually following God, but
maybe disobeying the world?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, it just means, honestly, that sometimes there
are people in this world whojust don't follow God's plan,
basically.
But we have to be strong, evenwhenever we're in the position
where we're under the authorityof people who don't follow God's
plan basically.
But we have to be strong evenwhenever we're in the position
where we're under the authorityof people who don't accept it.
You know, jesus said give toCaesar what is Caesar's.
And again, david and Saul.
Like David still respected Saulbecause he was the Lord's
(08:55):
anointed, even though he didn'tagree with what Saul was doing
and, let's be honest, god didn'teither, which is why Saul was
eventually put out of his place.
But we still have to respectthese people and act with love
towards them, even if we aren'tfollowing what they want for us.
Like you know, if Davidfollowed what Saul wanted for
him, david would have died inthe court.
But David still respected Sauland loved him and, again,
(09:18):
wouldn't touch him, even to thepoint of just cutting off a bit
of his robe and repenting for it.
But he still respected him andacted in love towards Saul.
And that eventually, well, atone point it changed Saul's
heart.
And then Saul went back tobeing Saul, of course.
But you know, we just we haveto not conform but be, I guess,
(09:38):
in the world so that people cansee us, see how we've been
changed by Christ and maybe be,you know, convinced by our good
deeds and glorify our father inheaven.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Vicki, let me ask you , you know cause?
You just mentioned the storyabout how you were following the
world instead of Jesus and andobviously you had some thoughts
about that and saying, man, Ishould have followed the Lord.
But now that you're followingthe Lord fully, what advice
would you give to somebody whois struggling with that, who's
going hey, the world is lookingreally really good right now and
(10:09):
you're asking me to follow theLord, what advice would you give
them if they're looking tostray?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I mean, there are plenty of times where I have
fallen, and every time I fall Ijust have to run back to the
Lord because because there'snothing like him, like nothing
like truly nothing can eversatisfy besides him, and when
you fall away from him youabsolutely just feel empty.
You think that you may belacking something that the world
can give you, but it won'tsatisfy.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
All the glitters is not gold right.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
That's good.
Now we're going to kind of jumpinto.
You have the three friends, um,they are love the guys.
They are still denyingfollowing the laws and the rules
that babylon wants them tofollow.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Um, and they get tossed into a furnace, a fiery
furnace and it should be notedthat it's seven times hotter
than, which is, by the way, notrealistic or possible, but yeah
seven times.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It might have been the same flame with the burning
bush.
I mean really hot well, that's.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
That's actually one of the illusions there.
Right is the fact that the,that the the flames are
engulfing something withoutdestroying that thing, so
there's an illusion to theburning bush, right there.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So we have the three friends tossed in and then a
fourth image emerges.
Tell me, guys, what you guys,everybody here, you know what
you think.
Who is this Cause there's?
There is debate over who thisfourth figure is that goes in
with them.
What do you guys think?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, there's an easy answer here.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Easy answer for the for the for the last easy answer
.
I view it in the same way asJacob's angel Lord.
You know, I think it's Christjust incarnate before in his
glorified form, just as heappeared on the mountain with a
couple of his disciples.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Easy, yeah, look, I mean Jesus is the one that comes
to Christian's mind, right, theJewish people would have
thought that it was an angel ofthe Lord, and I think both of
those can be the same thing.
I say a lot on this podcast.
It's not this or that,sometimes this and that, and I
think this is a this and thatmoment, right, like even if the
angel was Jesus in that moment,the people who were seeing it
(12:21):
wouldn't have understood it asJesus.
So to them it was an angel.
An angel, and to futuregenerations who had the
opportunity to have moreinformation, more backstory,
their back knowledge, it becomesjesus yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Something really interesting, though, is whenever
king nebuchadnezzar saw thisimage, he said wow, it's
something like this a son of thegods.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, the word, the word, son right, yeah, is that
what it says in hebrew?
I'm actually in Hebrew, does itactually?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
say the word son, yeah, or is this a bit of a no
the?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
translation is correct.
Translatorism where they werelike eh son, sounds good there.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Nope, nope, the translation is correct and he
does.
He sees this as a divine personinside with them, which leads
me to another question, which iswhere did Daniel go?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Javi, that's good pointing at you uh, why my
ecumenical bible says that itwas likely that that story was
actually added later, that itwas a tradition story, and that
it was later because, by the way, the book of Daniel was written
over like 600 years.
Right, it was like started inlike the six uh 600s, I think
(13:30):
over 400 years, think between600 and 130 BC or something like
that.
And so you know, the story doesevolve over time based on the
writing styles, the languages.
Even part of this was writtenin Aramaic, if you read that
part.
So this story they're sayingbecause of the fact that
Daniel's not in it, it lookslike this was a standalone story
(13:53):
.
That was also same, you know,same background, same context,
but at some point they justfolded together with the same
for me what I get out of itright away.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
It's daniel was the one that was interpreting dreams
.
He was valuable tonebuchadnezzar, where the other
three didn't really bringanything extra, in a sense.
Um so for them not buying down,not giving into the babylonian
way, they threw them in thefurnace where daniel was.
(14:21):
I'm gonna hold on to this guybecause this guy can interpret
dreams.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, he's useful yep , because he was useful and they
were like well no, no furnace,for According to the Midrash and
the Talmud, he was actually ona trip that the royal court sent
him on a trip, okay, and that'swhere he was.
So he was communicating withother places that needed his
communication style.
Oh, interesting.
So he actually wasn't therewhen they were thrown in.
(14:48):
If he was, he would have beenthrown in.
I don't think it would havemade a difference to their
saving grace of not beingconsumed by the fire, right, uh?
But again, now we have threedifferent thoughts of where
daniel was.
But, um, he definitely was notthere, uh, and it's just always
interesting because when youstart to look into it, you know
where where are these people,you know where were his three
(15:08):
friends later on, when danielwas thrown the lion's den, and
you start to think about thesethings.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, look, that's really what happens to us in our
lives too.
Right, we have our.
As I said earlier, you haveyour community, your community's
around you, but they're notalways there when you need them.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Ouch.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But they're not.
And I don't mean that in a badway, I don't mean like, oh, they
heard something went wrong andthey eschewed you and ran the
other direction.
I'm just saying sometimesthey're just not there.
Sometimes it's a battle you gotto fight yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Are either of you familiar with the dream that
Daniel had translated forNebuchadnezzar?
Speaker 5 (15:46):
Weren't there multiple.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
There were.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
There were, but particularly the golden head one
.
The statue, yeah, the statue,definitely why?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
don't you tell us about?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
I'm not that familiar , I was going to say that's a
lot of details.
There's four different kinds ofmetals.
The last one wasn't gold.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
At the top it's like silver below, and then I want to
say bronze all I remember is itends on iron and clay bronze
stone and clay bronze, stone andclay.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Thanks for correcting me so.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I think, but when you look at at this dream, you look
at all the different dreams.
Um, they all have a similarity.
Yeah, and why don't you talkabout the similarity more than
the particular dream?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I mean honestly the same thing is.
It's just Nebuchadnezzar, likewell, obviously he's having the
dream interpreted for him.
So it's partially, you know,due to him.
Just in the second one, wherehe was going to be, I think it
was a great tree that was cutdown by something of the Lord.
I don't remember exactly.
But basically it's all justNebuchadnezzar's pride blinds
(16:46):
him to the crumbling of, I guess, his empire.
You know he has a mighty empire.
He has a great golden head inone, he has a big tree in
another, but God is so powerfulthat he's going to break that
down, even though by worldlystandards, you know that's an
empire that'll never fall.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
The empire, I think came down because of the sun,
really His sun, yeah his sun.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I was like wait, we have one son.
We have one son, sorry,nebuchadnezzar's son.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It was.
It came Balthazar, I think itwas.
Yeah, yeah, oh, there you go.
So yeah, I think it came downbecause of him, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Nebuchadnezzar goes crazy, and Well, because on, so
he, which is why it's his sonwho doesn't accept, who become,
who stays prideful, yeah, um,where the kingdom actually comes
down, god knows it, and he says, okay, now he's sending in the
persians who are going to takeover, right, um, so it it is.
You know, when you look atnebuchadnezzar, you go, okay, he
(17:44):
was this ruler, um, but was itreally that bad he?
He had given room in his courtfor the captives, yeah, um, he
listened to one of themeventually, um, so this is to me
, is is not a bad ruler, right,um, but it is somebody who, uh,
I mean he he was brutal.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
I'm not saying he's a good guy.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I wouldn't, go hanging out with him um, but as
far as rulers be fair.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
He's really nice if you're in his upper court and
things are good Everybody elsehad it garbage, but you know,
that's just the way that works.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But what ends up happening is sometimes and this
is a question also about theworld it appeals to some people.
You go hey, in your court, Iget meat and wine, I get.
All I have to do is, you know,is bow to you or your God, but I
get all these other things.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I think it's the great temptation I was going to
say how, how much like the realworld's that all you have to do
is everything I tell you to doand you're going to be fat and
happy and drunk and you're goingto have women all around and
things are going to be great.
All good, no, it's cool, just dowhat I say.
And you're like, oh, I likewomen and and drinks and drugs
and alcohol, and like I likethat kind of thing.
Like, and you're so driven byyour, by your flesh and by your
(18:59):
synapse and by your hormones andby your, that we're not
stopping and saying, like Ishould be following God, Like I
shouldn't be tempted, like this.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's a great temptation.
So and that's my question is,how do you stop, when you have
that temptation of nothing, thatthat is appearing to you as
harmful?
In the beginning it seems likeactually fun.
How do you?
Speaker 5 (19:18):
stop when I was difficult for the world to, not
for the world, but it'sdifficult that the world off of
these things, and if you don'tdo it, you're the Ottoman,
you're the outcast.
Yeah, You're the outcast.
You're the.
You're the four.
You're the outcast.
You're the.
You're the four.
You're daniel and his friend Ican't say their names, so daniel
and his friends you know,you're them four, you know, and
that wants to like look at youguys, you guys getting ridiculed
(19:39):
, you guys, right, different,you know.
Or like modern day right,you're a christian, you're
walking around with this cross,you're kind of weird and you,
you know, maybe you smell funny,no, but I'm joking.
I'm joking but like you know,those things that could be very
hard, especially as a youth, asa young adult.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Right, still trying to find your place.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
You know what.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I'm still going to hold on to what I believe
Totally, because I think God hasa better plan.
God, his way, is sovereign, isbetter rather than what the
world offers.
How do you guys navigate?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
that.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So, like, the one thing that I've been told
throughout my life, when I'veasked that question for myself,
is remember, like, remember howhe's helped me before, remember,
like the pain that I have gonethrough that he's lifted me out
of.
And like seeing the things thathe does all around us, reading
the Bible, seeing what he's donefor others.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
So yeah, my thing would be remember, I mean me
personally, I learned the hardway.
I was.
I was an atheist until about ayear and a half ago.
You know, I'd grown up in thechurch but I never really had
faith and then I just completelylost it, thought it was stupid
and I tried all the things ofthe world.
You know like I had some fun, Ithought, man, this is great,
but at the same time I wascrippled by anxiety, depression.
(20:49):
You know all the things of theworld that people talk about,
how good they are, you know youeventually get disillusioned to.
You know how good they trulyare, and I think that's a big
testament to how we were created, you know, because we weren't
created for the things of thisworld.
We were created to worship God.
We were created for somethingbigger than anything that the
world has to offer.
So eventually, you know, I'mnot saying, try the world and if
(21:15):
you don't like it, come toChrist, but I'm saying I have
tried the world and I liked it,but it ruined me and I realized,
yeah, sin is fun for a season,but God is great for all time.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I think it's amazing how quickwe can desensitize to the thing
the first time we do that sinfulthing and we go, oh, this is
fun, but the second time it'snot as fun and you got to do
more of it, and the next timeyou got to do more and like
there's, there's, we're.
We're infinitely unsatisfiablecreatures.
With things of the world we'reinfinitely unsatisfiable.
There's no amount of fame orInstagram presence or, or you
(21:46):
know literally any number of youknow sinful things.
There's no, none of them aresatisfied.
You've been down that road andyou said you know, I'm not
telling people to go do thesesins and then find God, but the
reality is most people have donethem, whether they tried or not
right, whether they've indulgedthemselves in things before,
and they found that there's justno good at the end of that.
There's no light at the end ofthat tunnel.
There's far more darkness inthe end of that tunnel.
(22:06):
And when you do what, like yousaid, to remember, when you
remember the peace that you havewith God, when you remember the
kindness that you feel forothers because God has been kind
to you, when you feel what it'slike to forgive others because
God has forgiven you for thethings that you've screwed up.
That remembrance is everythingand it's just like founding,
(22:28):
literally fundamental, likefounding purposes in your life
and holding onto those.
And it's a huge thing.
And that's what daniel did.
We're pulling it back right.
That's that's what daniel did.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Daniel never let go of his fundamentals yeah, I'm
gonna say, I always say it's uh,temptation is temporary and
only when you let go is whenyou're really living it's true
and I and I feel like with whenyou do those things, when you
let go of that and you followthe faith, it's also good just
like Daniel has his friends tofind a community that is
(22:57):
like-minded, a community that'sgrounded in God, that you'll be
able to also grow from and feelokay, that you're all letting go
of that temptation, you're allwalking the same path and trying
your best to do that and notfeel outcast and really find a
community in that.
I think we all need it.
I think God made us forrelationships and when we dive
(23:17):
into further our faith, the morewe need to build those
relationships of people that arelike-minded.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
What's amazing to me is, you know, I sit here as a
man with a white beard and it'seasy for me to look back and go
yes, you need to give up the sin, you need to follow the Lord,
you need to do these things.
I'm also at the point in my lifewhere peer pressure is almost
nothing.
It doesn't really exist in myworld anymore.
But I'm looking at two peoplewho are teenagers who, like
(23:45):
Daniel whether he was 14 to 18,they have him estimated at had
this conviction that I did nothave in my, in my teens.
Um, and it's a much differentworld now.
I think it's even harder now.
Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm amazed atDaniel's conviction.
But then, looking at you guys,you know it's one of the main
reasons I want you here is justto just to hear the conviction
(24:05):
that you have, um, still kind ofgrowing into who you're going
to be and what this world has tooffer, and saying you know what
, I know what this world has tooffer and it has to offer God,
and that's where I've, you know,that's where I've directed my
life.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Amen, Um, it's, it's amazing, Um yeah, with the stuff
that's going on now, with thedistraction of like everything,
of like just content everywhere,it's like it just throws you
off so much.
And not only that, it's, it'snot only it's a lot, it's
everywhere and it's just full ofinformation.
Which is great, I think, iswe're living in a really great
time.
But you also got to discern.
(24:40):
You also got to really knowwhat.
What are you reading, what areyou hearing?
Even this podcast, like thestuff that we say, I think is
good for someone to take it in,chew on it and really you know,
understand that.
You know what's, what's right,what's wrong, whatever it is not
saying that we say anythingwrong, but just really discern
for yourself and seek god andall those things if I could play
(25:01):
that game too.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I mean, I think the challenge that you guys have now
is that there is so much noiseyeah, there's so much noise and
there's so much distraction fromthe truth.
And, like you said you, youknow it yourself.
Vicky, you said I, I know whatI felt when I was in my word, I
know what I felt and I, andthat's what I hold on to.
And the problem is, it's reallyhard to hold on to something
(25:24):
when you're trying to grab it.
A hundred other things, when,when, when you can't keep both
hands on on on a precious item,when your hands are also trying
to grab out and grab otherthings.
And so, whether it's a podcast,whether it's being in your word
, whether it's being aroundothers, whether it's being in
Bible studies or groups, or evenjust surrounding yourself with
people who help you to keep yourhands around, that thing is so
(25:46):
important as you guys moveforward, because if you don't,
there's a whole lot to grab for.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Oh yeah, I think you guys were talking about how it's
more difficult in our currentculture to follow God, and I
think maybe not instead of that,but as well as that, it's very
different than how it was,because we have so much access
to information now that we canTrue, I think so many people are
being, you know, turned offfrom, I guess, the worldly
(26:13):
things in that people are seeing.
You know how bad it gets likeyou know I'm not sure how much
I'm allowed to say here, butlike fentanyl is being added to
drugs.
You know so many addictingthings that are just terrible.
They kill you and it's so quickas well, and it can be, you
know you go from a happy, youknow, 19 year old one day to a
dead one and five hours later noway and we're just getting
(26:36):
disillusioned with the world.
But at the same time, a bigspirit of laziness has been
overcoming the world.
I this might surprise you guys,because you guys aren't super
like I I mean, you have kids, sowhatever but I know a lot of
people who don't have anyhobbies other than scrolling.
I know a lot of people whodon't spend time outside, don't
(26:59):
spend time.
You know, sometimes, in God'sword, whenever they're around
people they do these things, butthey don't have a single hobby
and if you're not with them, ifthey're by themselves, they're
not going to do anything butscroll the internet and look at
this stuff and see how otherpeople live.
And man, hey, I really want tobe a part of that, but they're
(27:19):
so lazy that they're not willingto do it and I think that was a
big problem and it still is abig problem with myself.
You know, just, laziness is thespirit of this generation.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, it's one of the seven deadly sins.
Right, laziness and sloth isone of the deadly sins.
I mean, and this is why I heardsomebody say recently I think
it was Cliff Nectal I love thatdude I think he said that you
know, laziness is a sin againstGod, because you're essentially
saying that you haven't given meanything worth going out and
looking for or worth looking outand going for.
(27:50):
I can't take credit for thatone, tim, but but.
But it's solid, because I neverrealized that you're really
saying, like, we're sitting inhere right now.
Right, we're in this room andI'm looking outside and there's
a lake and there's birds, andthere's trees, and there's a,
and there's there's grass, and Icould go play golf right now or
riding a bike.
I mean, there's a hundredthings I could do.
So me sitting in here obviouslyI'm having a podcast right now,
but if I'm sitting herescrolling to my phone, I'm
(28:12):
basically saying none of that'simportant, none of that is
beautiful, none of that's good,none of that's worth it.
It's just I'd rather be sittinghere looking at other people
doing their things instead of medoing it.
And so I hear that.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I hear that I'm um and then we're going to kind of
move really quickly into alsowhat I see some of the youth
doing right now.
So the ones that are not lazyare really getting into these
movements.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
The ones that are not lazy are not lazy.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
What a segue they're getting into movements, they're
actually moving and doingsomething.
You see, you know the Hope forRevivals and things like that,
daniel, under Darius um, when hegets tossed into the lion's den
, which, by the way, uh, youknow, we have now moved closer
(28:57):
to my age than when he started,because then, now, estimating
him to be out 70 years old, ohreally, oh.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
So like your exact age, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But no, I mean, if he's your size.
Now I understand why the lionsdidn't go after him.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
They.
Why the?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
lions didn't go after him.
They would be scared of you orvery brittle.
I don't want the old scale, butno, what ends up happening is a
lot of people think that Danielis still a youth when he gets
tossed in a lion's den.
He's actually probably around 70years old, based on how long
these kings would have reigned.
So, right at the end, whereDaniel's about 70 years old
Darius tells all the decree wasthat everyone had to bow to
darius, and what daniel did ishe went back to his room, window
(29:35):
open, uh, pointed towardsjerusalem and he prayed.
And he could have prayed inprivate there's nothing against
levitical law about him prayingin private um, but he prayed
publicly and this was a movement.
This was him defying dariuspublicly.
Um, and now I'm asking you guysfor, for those that are not
lazy in your generation, um,who's picking up?
You know really their, their,their stance and saying listen,
(29:59):
we want a movement, we want touh share the gospel, we want to
uh do what Daniel didn't, justreally dig into their faith.
Um, what are you guys seeing inyour generation?
What are you guys talking about?
What are some of thoseconversations that happen about
you know, kind of followingDaniel and saying, no, we're
putting our foot down publicly.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
The first thing that comes to my mind is like when we
used to do first priority inschool, you would get kids every
day praying, asking forboldness.
Right, because we all want tomake an effort in our schools,
right, to start just being morebold and saying, hey, look like
you look sad, you need some help.
(30:38):
Like I know something that canhelp you, right, like so yeah,
boldness immediately comes to mymind when I hear like teenagers
wanting to start a movement.
They're praying for that.
They're asking God to just givethem the words to speak.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I'm going to sound really nerdy when I say this,
but in our culture today wenotice a lot of people saying,
hey, live your truth, you know.
So what I try to do, which isalways a ton of fun whenever I'm
talking to people, because Imeet a lot of people and they
say something I'm like, reallyyou don't believe that, but I
like setting the philosophicalfoundations for objective,
(31:19):
absolute truth, and I thinkwhenever people accept that, it
becomes really simple to,whenever you set that foundation
, you can then set thefoundation of Christ as well.
(31:41):
So I like setting movementswhere, you know, I get people
talking about that kind of stuff, whether it's, you know,
evangelists like myself or justanybody who wants to talk to
other people in any situationlike that.
You know, I was back before.
I lived in Florida.
I was surrounded by people whomI considered incredibly smart,
and none of them were believersin Christ, and that really
(32:04):
changed me and I became anatheist I don't want to say
because of it, but that wasdefinitely a big factor.
An atheist, I don't want to saybecause of it, but that was
definitely a big factor.
And so I think whenever we'resurrounded by people who they
seem so smart, so worldly, youknow, like worldly wisdom.
You know, think of JohnBunyan's, you know he sounded so
great but at the same time heleads people astray, and I think
that's what worldly wisdom does.
(32:25):
So if we set absolute truth andthen present the evidence, I
think it just becomes reallyeasy to start a movement where
people see that it has value andthat it can be used Totally.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yeah, I like that, I love that you guys do that.
I think the bonus of havingthat at your age to go out and
do that I think I see Daniel inthat.
As you see in the story, Danielis faithful, he's not going to
go against his God and Godblesses that.
He protects them, he watchesover them, there's provision
over them and he takes care ofthem right.
(32:57):
And I think you guys could restassured and even for us, any
Christian out there could restassured that when we stand up
for what we believe towards Godand just kind of like really
doing our best to follow God, inthat sense, God will bless it,
God will bless us in our path.
There will be ups and downs, aswe see in the story with Daniel.
I mean, being in the lion's denis a scary thing, but coming
(33:20):
out of it wow, you could really.
You can't.
You can only bless God for thatright.
You can only go well.
God can only do that.
We even see that withNebuchadnezzar right.
You can only go well, God canonly do that.
We even see that withNebuchadnezzar right.
When the guys go into thefurnace and they come out,
Nebuchadnezzar's like it had tobe God that took you out of that
.
You know, and that's what it isby being a light, that's what
it is by having a testimony thatno one can say anything about,
(33:42):
that you coming out of.
That is only God, and I thinkthat's a great thing that you
guys stand firm in that, and Godwill bless it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I think, if we're getting close to wrapping up
here, I think one of the thingsthat I find really important is
something we said earlier, whichis that these four men were
brought in for, and I went to gofind what it says.
It says they were handsome inappearance, skillful in all
wisdom and endowed withintelligence and discernment.
I think that that intelligenceand ability to discern comes
(34:10):
from the faith that they have inGod, and wisdom is the
foundation for all of it.
We have entire books of theBible which are dedicated to
wisdom.
So you know wisdom to yourpoint.
A minute ago, you know, you meetthese intelligent people and
they're smart and they'rethoughtful, but they're worldly
smart and they're worldlythoughtful, but they're not wise
.
They're not supported bythousands and thousands of years
(34:31):
of other people who've gonethrough it and were able to
record it and, by the way, theydid so because they were taking
it from the being that createdwisdom, which isn't the right
foundation.
It's not based around thatabsolute truth, and so, for me,
this is that whole thing whereChristianity offers a foundation
.
It offers a foundation thatwill give you wisdom at times.
(34:51):
It will give youthought-provoking things that
you can discern and experiencefor yourself.
Proverbs is not about knowing,it's about doing, and the more
that you do these things, themore you learn them.
It's the experience of them,and this is how you become like
Daniel.
This is how you do it.
You commit yourself to thefaith, you commit yourself to
the scripture.
You commit yourself to thefaith.
(35:16):
You commit yourself to thescripture, you commit yourself
to the executing what the faithis telling you you should be
doing, and then you earn theknowledge.
I know you guys don't like theold testament, but go back to
those wisdom books and read uhsong of solomon.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
read uh, not song of solomon uh, not song of solomon,
sorry, I'm a little young.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Sorry, yeah, not song of solomon I was in I songs, I
was in the wisdom books in myhead, sorry.
Read Proverbs and readEcclesiastes, and the things
that you will see are yeah wrong.
Book, job and Job.
What you'll find is thateverything you need for life is
right there.
That's the foundation.
That is the foundation for it,and then you build your life
around Christ using thatfoundation.
(35:50):
That is the foundation for it.
And then you build your lifearound Christ using that
foundation.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I mean, it's really hard not to win.
I'll just kind of end offsaying that Daniel is actually
one of the few people in theBible who is not recorded with
sin.
Really, yeah, he's one of theones who's not recorded
committing any sin, and what itreads to me is not that he was
perfect, because we know that hedid sin, he did repent.
It's not that that's not thestory, but the story I'm reading
(36:14):
.
Is even somebody as faithful asDaniel that he still went
through troubles?
He was still somebody who wastaken from his home, putting
into a court that he didn't wantto be in, living a life he
didn't want to live being thrownin a lion's den.
He lived a life, believe it ornot, in the Midrash and Talmud
as well.
They also have him as a eunuch.
They said that yeah they saidthat he was a eunuch.
(36:35):
I didn't know that.
So you now have somebody whohad a really tough life but
still trusted God through it all.
And if I can just ask you guyskind of one last sign off thing
is just when you hear about that, when you hear about you know
following God, even though lifeis not always, uh, the easiest,
um, how do you keep yourconviction to God?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I mean, of course, we remember the evidence for the
faith and whenever we do that,whenever we truly have, you know
, like belief, it's easy to havefaith because whenever you see,
you know all that God's done,it's hard not to love him hard,
not to want to apply what youlearn, not to love him hard, not
to want to apply what you learn.
And again, you know, if youhave that great faith, then you
(37:15):
can just read your Bible and beinsanely convicted.
You know, one of my favoriteverses in the entire Bible is
Jesus said I have told you thesethings so that in me you may
have peace in this world.
You will have trouble, but takeheart, I've overcome the world.
And that's just what we have toremember.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And Vicki, if, if, if there was again, with the world
being what it is and you havinguh struggles in this world, how
can you still remain faithfulto Christ?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Um, so when I was reading Daniel six and Daniel
three, I believe what I got likewhat?
What was put on my heart wasthat God doesn't like guarantee
safety, but he guarantees hispresence, like throughout our
life.
So, yeah, we're going to getthrown in the fire sometimes
because of us being obedientright To him and not to the
(38:07):
world, but he's going to be withus.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So Amen, amazing.
Thank you so much.
This has been an incredibleepisode.
I really appreciate you guysfor coming in.
Thank, you guys, thanks guys.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
This is awesome.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
We, we always enjoy doing this, and having new
friends with us makes it evenmore fun.
We get new ideas thrown inthere.
We get to see how differentpeople approach the faith, how
different people approach life.
Uh, how old we are, that's animportant part of us to remember
.
And uh, for those of you whoare listening, who are young, uh
, we appreciate your listening.
We hope you listen to peoplelike we have on here, and if
(38:40):
you're old, we hope you'relistening to them too, because
that's what's coming next.
Uh, thanks for everything.
Uh, thanks for the time, thanksfor the consideration.
We appreciate your likes,comments, shares, follows,
reviews you name it.
We appreciate you and we'lltalk to you next week.
Thank you, bye, see you guys.
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