September 10, 2025 • 45 mins
The story of Noah's Ark hides profound truths beneath its familiar surface. Far from the simplified Sunday school version, the biblical account reveals a complex narrative of judgment, redemption, and divine protection that continues to challenge and inspire thousands of years later.
Dive deep with us as we uncover startling revelations: Noah didn't bring just two animals of each kind, but seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean animals. The ark journey wasn't just 40 days but nearly a full year. These details transform our understanding of this pivotal moment in biblical history.
Beyond correcting misconceptions, we explore the theological richness of this narrative. The flood represents both judgment and purification—a cosmic baptism cleansing creation. God's covenant with Noah establishes a pattern of divine promises that extends through Scripture. Meanwhile, the rainbow takes on new significance as God's bow pointed toward heaven, a sign of His taking responsibility rather than threatening humanity.
We also examine fascinating scientific perspectives supporting a catastrophic flood event. From the mysterious "fountains of the deep" correlating with recent discoveries of massive subterranean water reserves, to geological evidence worldwide suggesting rapid flooding, these findings challenge us to reconsider the historical dimensions of this account.
Perhaps most surprisingly, we confront Noah's fall after the flood—his drunkenness and the subsequent blessing and cursing of his sons—revealing that even the "righteous" remain imperfect. This human element reminds us that faith isn't about personal perfection but trusting God's perfect plan.
Whether you're a lifelong believer or skeptical seeker, this episode will transform how you understand one of the Bible's most iconic stories. Join us as we navigate the waters of ancient text to discover timeless wisdom for today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Gentlemen, the story that weknow of Noah did you know that
he brought animals two by twoonto the ark?
I know this story.
Did you know that that'sactually not accurate?
(00:23):
He did not bring two of everyanimal onto the ark.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
That's what I meant.
I do not.
Yes, yeah, there are so manythings about this.
Seven pairs.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Seven pairs of clean animals.
Yeah, one pair of uncleananimals.
This story is just filled withdifferent symbolisms and
different things that we thinkwe know the story.
Another one is it did not.
They were not on the arc for 40days and 40 nights.
Right, they were actually onthe arc for about a year, yep.
So this is one of those storieswhere it's amazing how much you
(00:55):
think you know about a storybecause of all the things you've
heard, but really, when youlook into it and you go deeper
into it, you go, wow, okay,there is an entire story that I
never even realized was there,and that's what I think we
should jump into today.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Veggie.
Tales lie to me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So let's jump right into how this all is kind of set
up.
So right now we have a verysinful world, and when I say
sinful world, there's a lot ofacademia that go back and forth
about what was sinful about thisworld, but we know that this
was human beings really goingoff the deep end, acting foolish
, hurting each other, lying toeach other, manipulating the
(01:36):
world around them, beingcompletely opposite of what God
created us to be, created us tobe.
So God basically came up with aplan, and his plan was I am
going to rid the world ofeverybody, and that was it.
I'm done with man.
It's a very scary thought, buthe found favor in one righteous
man, his family, noah, and thisis Genesis six through nine.
(02:02):
This is what that story comesfrom, and he gives Noah a task
which I actually love.
I'm just going to point thisout.
His task was to build an arc.
To build this arc, he gave himthe exact plans for it and this
gentleman was to build the arcand his name Noah.
In Hebrew is Noah meaning restor comfort.
(02:23):
I'm going.
This is anything but restful.
If the entire this is anythingbut restful, the entire story is
anything but restful.
But his name was rest andthat's it.
He built the ark and it wastime to bring the animals on,
and God is very specific.
You want to talk about the Godof details.
I know that if you look atboats today, these boats, they
(02:44):
are made in that almost exactshape that God laid out
thousands of years ago.
The animals that were broughton seven pairs of clean and one
pair of unclean.
This is so you can actually dosacrifices afterwards.
Birds were, I mean we're talkingabout.
Everything was thought down,even to the detail of.
I want the kinds of animals,not species, and that's
(03:07):
important because of how manywe're bringing on.
So it wasn't.
I want every species of dog.
I don't want, you know, the,the chihuahua and the bulldog
and the golden lab.
I just want a, the pair of of acanine, um, which is the kind.
So it's.
This is the god of details.
(03:28):
It's amazing so far, and ithasn't even started raining yet.
Yeah, um, and noah through thistime is also not just building.
He is trying to tell everybodyabout what's happening.
He's trying to actually correctthe world and say we are acting
wrong.
This is going to happen.
(03:48):
It's going to flood.
We need to change our ways andnobody was listening.
So this Noah is truly trying todo the right thing, and I'm
going to pause there.
We're going to get into theactual flood in a second.
But one of the things that a lotof people look at and they say,
hey, there's a flood story inevery culture.
(04:11):
Have you guys heard that?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So there are over 200 culturesthat have a flood story in it.
Most famous do you guys knowwhat?
The most famous one is the epicof gilgamesh.
I knew you'd know that one.
It's the mesopotamian epic ofgilgamesh.
And this is a lot of timeswhere people say, well, this
(04:33):
didn't happen, because all theseother places have the same
flood story and this is justmythology and all that.
How do you guys feel about that?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
go ahead.
Ob far as mythology, well, youknow me, I take it very literal.
I take it as they're alltelling the same story.
They're telling the same storyof what we know it to be as Noah
and that's they're pretty muchwriting the same accounts.
It's almost the same thing.
When they talk about you know,I feel like the one to come, and
(05:03):
they're talking about Jesus asthe one to come as a savior.
So that's how I see it, as allthe other stories of different
countries and stuff like thatthat mentioned this kind of
flood, I don't think it wasmultiple floods in different
kind of areas to create thisthing.
I think it was one story.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, one global flood.
I mean I think the story itselfis unique for reasons we'll
talk about throughout, but Imean, the fact that there is a
flood story in every not everyin many other cultures is proof
that there was a flood of somesort.
You know to what extent, Idon't think is always knowable,
(05:43):
I think but the fact that thereis one tells you that there was
a flood or there was asignificant amount of flooding,
or there was a significant eventof flooding, and that alone
gives you enough faith to keepdigging through the story.
Right Now, the account is very,very different.
The account is very different.
One of the things I've heard,particularly with Epic of
Gilgamesh, is that when you'relooking at the flood story, the
(06:07):
flood story was not about savingthe world, which is what God
did.
It was about punishing theworld, and in the Noah story
it's about saving.
I mean, yes, there's apunishment there which, by the
way, we got to go back to,because for me that's the
beginning of the story, right,but it's not punishment, it's
redemption.
And, but it's not punishment,it's redemption.
And in the other stories it'sjust punishment, and in the
(06:27):
story it's redemption and it'skind of a reset and it's a love
story that has a bad beginningmaybe, but it's a love story
nonetheless.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, I definitely agree.
I think when you look at for me, I always look at the story
that comes after that the Towerof Babel, where he divides
people I'm going.
If you look at the story thatcomes after that the Tower of
Babel, where he divides peopleI'm going.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there are
ziggurats.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there are pyramids
.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there's this flood
account.
It is very possible that thiswas a flood that actually
(06:58):
happened, that people discussedthrough generations and then,
when it got to the Tower ofBabel and they all split and
went to different parts of theworld, they brought their
version of the story with them,and this is what we see is a
story that I believe alsoliterally happened.
But, jason, why don't we,before I jump further, why don't
you say, if you said you knowyou had one from the beginning
(07:18):
of the story, let's jump rightinto that?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I mean, look, one of the biggest problems that I
think anybody has with the Bibleand this is anybody who has a
problem with the Bible is whywould God kill the entire earth
and every animal and everyeverything at all Like?
I don't even need to hear therest of the story.
You know, as a person who'sfighting against the Bible for
whatever reason, because I'magnostic, because I'm atheist,
because I'm, whatever, thosepeople are going to ask this
(07:41):
question and it's a tough thingto encounter.
You know why.
And, by the way, the languageis difficult.
The language in the Bible saysthat God regretted or I think
the word is regret regretted hisdecision to make people, to
create these people and man.
That's some really tough stuffto deal with.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, I mean I no, I was going to say I think it's
you're right.
It's a tough thing to to kind oftake in and to know to see that
God is does this right?
I mean we want to see God as aloving God that loves us and
love his creation and wants topat us in the back whenever we
do wrong or just kind of hug uswhen we do wrong, and stuff like
(08:24):
that.
And I think you're right.
I think when I first read itthe first couple times I'm like
why would you do this?
This is ridiculous.
Why don't you just stop evil?
Just bloop, you know whateverit is, and I think that's his
bloop.
Bloop is the flood.
So I think to me I love, likewhat you said, jason, before is
a redemption story and becauseof that redemption story we see
(08:45):
God's mercy, god's love for whathe has, his intention from the
beginning, which was to love hispeople and to love the earth
that he made.
That it was good and I thinkthat's what we see there and I
love that you mentioned that.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For me, when you look at the meaning of water in
Hebrew, it's life orsanctification.
And when we look at that, welook at a mikvah bath, we look
at baptism, we look at differentthings where water is used as a
way to bring forth life andit's also a way to purify.
And when I look at that, it ishard because we're saying, hey,
there was an entire world ofpeople at this point that were
(09:25):
being killed from the flood, butthis is God's sanctification,
this is purification of theworld, this was his, this was
the world's baptism.
And for me, I'm saying I mightnot understand that because I'm
not God, but I have to trust inhis plan.
And I don't know what happenedto all of the people there.
(09:47):
If you go by Jewish standards,they would have all been in
Sheol and eventually, after that, been in heaven.
So I'm going is it really cruelfor all of these population to
be in heaven?
Is that something where I'mangry at God about?
Or do I say listen, it's hisworld, it's his creation.
He's allowed to do with it ashe wishes.
(10:08):
And if we were not doing thethings that we were supposed to
be doing, he is absolutelyallowed to punish us, but in the
terms of, in my mind,purification to give out better
life.
He was giving out life to giveout better life.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
He was giving out life.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I see thatfor sure.
I think that one of theproblems I had, especially when
I wasn't a Christian, was thiswhole God knows, you don't thing
, and I get that that's maybe alittle bit selfish to.
I just don't.
I've never loved that answerBecause it doesn't solidify
anything.
I mean, it makes you have tohave more faith, which is
(10:45):
probably the point.
But as I've looked at the storyover the years, one of the
things that has come to me andone of the ways I've rectified
this whole baptism of the earthtype thing is that,
realistically, we have the storyof Adam and Eve where we became
sinners.
Right, we are sinners.
We became accountable to ourown sins, and that's the sinners
.
We became accountable to ourown sins, and that's the truth.
(11:06):
We became accountable to ourown sins.
We would die because of thosesins.
That was told to us verydirectly from the Garden of Eden
.
If you eat from the tree ofknowledge of good and evil, you
will die.
Right, that's very clear,explicit, and we did it anyway.
And so now you have this timeafter Adam and Eve and after
(11:27):
their offspring and so forth andso forth and down the line, and
it very clearly lays out thatpeople at the time were acting.
You know, all the feelings intheir heart were bad.
Right, it says that all of theywere sinful.
They were I even think I'mtaking extra biblical, like
mental things, but like you'retalking about a society that has
no major rules yet, no legalsystem, no law system, no, none
(11:51):
of those things.
And you have to imagine, earlyhumans would be animalistic,
they would be tribal, selfish,violent.
You know, they would befighting amongst themselves for
power and things like that.
And so they've done all thesesinful things.
And God is coming along andsaying he's not saying I'm
killing you because you suck.
He's saying look, you knew whatwould happen if you sinned like
(12:13):
this.
Just, the punishment is cominga little earlier than you think
it might come.
And I'm going to find somebodywho is not so tribal, somebody
who's not so animalistic,somebody who is more civilized
and focused on me and my waysand the goodness, not focused on
the tree, but focused on me,which is why he calls out Noah.
(12:34):
He says he was pleased withNoah.
He was pleased with Noah andwho he was, which is why he
decides to extend the life ofhumanity, through the civilized
one, through the godly one.
And so it's a long way ofsaying I'm not saying I think
it's great to kill offeverything in the universe, but
it's understandable when it hasalready been laid out as that.
(12:57):
That's just, the consequence ofsin is death, and if I need to
reset the stage for all thesecurrent sinners who are not
going anywhere positive, thenit's not a completely
unreasonable thing to do, Iguess.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, I mean, and it's listen, like I said, when I
mentioned something like hey,you know, this is God, and
sometimes we can't understandthat.
It's not saying that he is sohigh and powerful, although he
is.
But there are some things wherewe, being three very different
guys, there's some things youguys are going to do, I go.
I don't understand that becauseI wasn't born and raised that
way.
(13:31):
So, for me.
I'm going to look at it and go.
That doesn't make sense.
Listen, you you've mentionedyou love Indian food.
You love spicy Indian food.
I'm going I don't know how youcan do that.
I that's not me and I'm lookingat going.
I have no idea how you canconsume that much spicy food and
not be crying and miserable.
And meanwhile you're going.
This is the greatest thing ever.
(13:52):
This is the greatest meal.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So after he eats it, he cries.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
But that's something where I look at God, I go I'm
not going to understand himbecause I don't have the
feelings that he has.
I didn't make this creation.
That turned on me that way.
But then there are the thingsthat I think that he does.
That shows the loving side aswell, even in the same story,
and this is something I alwayslooked at this and love the way
(14:20):
this played out In Genesis 7.16.
It talks about when Noah is nowfinally on the ark.
He's built it, he brought allthe animals on.
He goes on.
God shuts him in.
He doesn't shut the door.
It says God shuts him in, um.
And when you look at the wordshut, it's the same word used as
when God shut out Adam and Evefrom Eden, or when God shut the
(14:44):
door during Passover.
And it's this divine controlover life and death.
So even while he's killing,he's having divine control over
life and I love that.
I love that imagery of Godhimself protecting you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Has wrapped you in his embrace and said you are
safe in here.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, so even in this story, where you can focus on
the bad and the horror and thewhy would he do this?
You look at the other side ofhim going.
How beautiful and how loving ishe that he personally shut the
door to make sure that Noah wassafe.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Noah and his family, so I just I sure that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Noah was safe Noah and his family.
So I just I love that part ofit.
I just think it.
It just.
To me, it's exactly what God'sabout, which is, yes, he's all
love, but he is also just.
You can't have one without theother.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Right.
I mean, that's exactly right.
You can't have one without theother, right.
And again, the people of theworld at the time were being
were living in a wrong way.
They were not following the Godthat they knew and the way they
knew they should be followingHim, which actually, by the way,
I actually saw a coupleinteresting notes, too, about.
You know it would talk aboutwhat the people weren't doing,
and then the Bible would givethese notifications that you
(16:04):
know in Leviticus is when youactually find out what these
laws are, or, in Numbers, youwould find out what these laws
are that they weren't doing, andI actually found that
interesting, David, and I wantedto ask you about that, because
you know you don't find outabout the laws until Leviticus,
or something you know, like youdon't find out about some of the
other things you're supposed tobooks, and yet in Genesis
they're already not followingthem.
(16:26):
So it goes to say that theremust have been some knowledge of
what is right and what is wrongby God's standards, even before
Leviticus was written.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Before you answer that, david, I wanted to say
when you think about the time inbetween Adam and Noah, I would
like to think and the Biblemaybe mentions it here and there
, but I like to think that hedid put something in there to
kind of save us from doing badis what I'm trying to say it
(16:58):
took to Noah and the violenceand how out of control it was
for him to wipe it out with theflood and all that stuff.
I like to think those manyyears, which is a couple hundred
years in between, that therewas hey, do good.
I like to think that God putgood morals in our hearts.
We're always seeking, we knowwhat's good and bad regardless.
(17:19):
I really like to think that andI think during that time, like
you're saying, with the law itwas already written in our
hearts.
We see that with Cain and Abelit was wrong.
It was no law written already,but it was wrong that he killed
his brother To give you anexample.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, romans 1 actually says something about
that too.
Paul says that all men know God, whether or not they have
called him by that name or not.
So that part I definitely agree.
I not that thing.
So that part I definitely agree.
I mean Paul says that.
On the other hand, I mean itdoes also very clearly say that
(17:53):
they knew that they were notdoing the law.
I mean it says it very, veryclearly in Genesis.
So again, it just goes to showyou that, even though it wasn't
written until Leviticus, it hadalready been handed by God in
Genesis.
Who he handed to may not bewritten down, but it was because
it was there.
Mic drop, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And here's there's a couple of schools of thought.
Is one Javier hit the nail onthe head, which is it was
written in our hearts and theyknew the law.
Another one that that has isyou know, when Adam and Eve,
when they ate of the tree ofknowledge of good and evil, they
were kicked out.
They were kicked out of Eden.
It does not say that theirknowledge was removed.
So is it possible that the treethat they ate of was the one
(18:27):
that produced the knowledge thatthey passed down as the law?
So that's another school ofthought that comes from some of
the sages.
Again, I always say I know 100%what happened over the last 47
years, because that's how old Iam.
I have no idea what happened6,000 years ago, but it's a
beautiful thought to think thatAdam and Eve still did retain
some of that knowledge and wereable to pass that down.
(18:49):
And that makes it even moresevere of if they knew good and
evil and they chose evil andthey were passing down these
laws from God and people stillchose evil.
This is also why God is sayingyou know what?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
enough I have an interesting question that I was
thinking about as I was readingthis.
God chose Noah because Noah wasa righteous man.
He was right in his eyes, buthe also chose his family to go
with him.
Were they righteous as the sameas he was Right To say like
Adam?
That's a bad example, because Ican't enable, but do you get
(19:22):
what I'm saying?
He brought his family with himbut Noah was the righteous one,
so I like to think, were theyjust?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
as clean and, and you know, righteous.
I don't know if it's just asrighteous.
I think it's very specific.
You know, if we stick just tothe Bible, which is is the best
way to go.
It talks about Noah.
Now, noah did need a family toreproduce afterwards.
And that's that we'll talk aboutthat after the flood, which is
the promise of the new covenantand all that.
But he did need a family tocontinue the the expansion of
(19:52):
the population on the earth.
But I do think that, if we justgo by the Bible, noah was
righteous, he was had favor byGod and family.
You're just going along for theride and you got lucky.
Well, here's.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Here's the other part too.
I mean, we have thisrelationship with God as a
father-parent, you know,parent-child relationship, right
, and so we are not worthy butwe follow our Father and that
makes us more worthy.
So, even if the children andthe wives by the way, it wasn't
just His children, it was Hischildren and their wives, their
wives it doesn't mean that theyhave to be worthy as well, it
(20:25):
means that they have to followtheir father, which, again, one
thing I want to touch on beforewe finish is that we keep
talking about Noah as being sorighteous, but let's not forget
what happens after the flood.
So we'll get to that later.
I don't want to spoil that, butI mean, look, nobody's that
righteous and I think that's oneof the points of the story
which I love Like he was, itwasn't that he was righteous
(20:46):
enough to get on this boat anddo all the things he was about
to do.
It was that he trusted in Godenough to do the things he
wanted.
And that is what righteousnessin our lives is right.
We're not righteous, but we cantry to be, we can follow
righteousness, we can followbehind righteousness and try to
get there.
But again, we'll talk aboutNoah's, you know, foible.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I think that's a good point, jason.
I think that's a really.
I'm glad that you said that.
I think that's exactly whatpeople should know that even
Noah, I like to think even Noah,moses right, and all these
great big characters that we see, that are know, we feel like
we're called by god and likewe're not, we're not worthy, and
it's like no, this is anothercharacter, most likely, that was
(21:30):
just as flawed as everybodyelse around them, but still
followed god's heart and triedhis best to do good.
You know, and that's what weall for sure, we still for sure
until this day after noah, whichis why we needed jesus.
So I think you bring a goodpoint there, jay.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's the only qualification, guys.
I mean that's the onlyqualification.
Like nobody here on this youknow we're talking right now or
nobody outside this room isrighteous, they are.
There are people who arefollowing God and there are
people who are not.
There are people who are tryingto do the will of God and there
are people who are not.
And that's as close as you'regoing to get.
(22:08):
Like you know, we've alreadytalked before, we're sinners, we
don't deserve heaven, we don'tdeserve God and the mercy and
the grace and the love that weget.
But we get it, and you knowanyway.
So let's talk about the flood.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, flood well, real quick, just because it's
funny, javi, you brought upmoses, the the word arctava.
No, the word arctava actuallymeans box and it's the same word
used as moses's basket when hewas going down yep, down the
road so this is actually.
They're both saved from watersof chaos, that's true, right so
(22:42):
when you look at that.
Yeah, it's just.
It's just one of thosecomparisons.
You mentioned moses, I justfigured I'd throw that one out
there.
That's actually the same word,such a great note the ark and
the basket.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And, by the way, david, you just mentioned waters
of chaos.
Can we spend a moment talkingabout that?
You just kind of glossed overthat one, but I mean, water in
the Old Testament typicallymeans chaos, right, it's.
It's like one of the universalsymbols for chaos and unrest and
, and you know, you don't knowwhen it's going to.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You know storm and tide's going to come up anyway,
so go ahead.
No, it actually is both.
It's almost like a shalom whereyou have hello, goodbye and
peace.
It's the same thing.
It can be in chaos, but it alsocan mean uh sanctification and
purification in life.
But we are.
So we have this flood, and herebecomes one of my favorite
things is so Genesis 711.
I'm just going to start there.
This is all of the apologeticsproof, all the scientific
(23:32):
evidence that this flood to meactually happened.
And in Genesis 711, it talksabout the fountains of the deep
that burst forth.
So it's not just hey, it rained.
And people say listen, if itrains every day for 40 days,
there's no way you can dropenough rain.
Uh, in 2014, scientists found alevel in the crust of a crystal
(23:54):
called ring I'm going to justread it so I get it right ring,
woodite, and these are said tohold water in them and the in
their structures.
They can hold water enoughwater to equal three times all
of the ocean water in the world.
So when it says the fountainsof the deep burst forth and they
(24:16):
found now three times oceanwater below the ocean, it just
again.
That's one of those thingswhere I'm saying is that proof?
Maybe not on its own, but itdoes say in the bible in 2011,
the chilean desert, they found80 whale remains, plus whale
remains of other fish, shark,things like that.
They found trees and plantsfossilized standing up,
(24:39):
creatures fossilized halfwaythrough eating.
They have found on mountaintops, sea life and fossils.
There is just an astoundingamount of evidence that there
was a flood.
I believe it was global.
Some people say it was one area, and that was it.
It was localized, but I feellike there is enough evidence in
(25:00):
enough areas of the world toshow a global flood.
I'm just I always get excitedabout this because I love taking
the bible literally and seeingyou know, kind of, if there's
any evidence for that.
And there's some strongevidence for the flood that's
good yeah, I think I've seen,and now we forgot it was I
forgot it was calling.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
It was like talking about noah's ark and just kind
of the, the, I think, thesediment rocks and how, like, if
it would have took so manymillions of years of the water
to recede back or whatever it is, it wouldn't like it was.
You could tell it was a recent.
Uh, what is it flooded?
Right, it was a what do youcall it?
A young earth kind of thing.
Right, it was like a recentthing.
(25:40):
I'm sorry I don't know the term.
That probably should have neverbrought it up, but I I think it
was a good documentary.
I think it was called Noah'sArk, history Found or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
No, there's quite a bit, and it does show a lot of
evidence of a rapid flooding andthat kind of leads.
Rapid flooding leads right intothe other thing that most
people think.
So, aside from two pairs ofanimals or one pair of animal,
it is hey, it rained 40 days, 40nights, but they did not spend
40 days and 40 nights on the arc.
They were actually on there forabout a year.
(26:11):
They it rained for 40 days and40 nights, but it prevailed for
about 150 days and then it took150 days to recede.
So you're talking about 370days total that they were on the
ark.
That is a lot of work to feedthat many animals.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
yeah, for a year let me go back to it is this wow, is
genesis history.
That's the documentary.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Okay, genesis history talks about the science behind
creation and the flip okay,great, so so 370 days of feeding
animals, taking care of animalsAgain.
Noach means rest.
I'm just telling you there's norest for this man.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
There's no rest for that man.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't know who named him, but boy.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I wanted to say also, Dave, you were saying that
enough to feed the animals, buthe also sacrificed some animals,
right?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I think that was at the end, at the end of the flood
, they, they did the sacrificesfor, cleanly for and he created
altar clean animals for thosepurposes right yeah, which we'll
get into.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So let's, let's fast forward.
I mean, listen, the flood is anamazing story but to be honest,
it's, it's scary.
There's a flood, it's a globalflood, it it rains.
700, 370 days later, noah doessomething to see if he can get
out because, you remember, godshut them in.
He has no idea if it's safe outthere.
There was a flood.
(27:33):
I can't imagine the noises thatwould have come for him and his
family on the ark.
But he is now at the pointwhere he releases two birds,
yeah, into the air.
Do you guys know what thosebirds are?
A dove and a raven?
Yep, and it's reallyinteresting when you start
looking at.
There's a symbolism for them,obviously, but also there's a
(27:58):
practical reason.
One was he released the ravenas a bird first and never came
back.
Because this is a bird, who's ascavenger bird, and if you have
an entire world that wasdrowned, there's a lot to pick
off of.
So he didn't come back becausethis was Thanksgiving meal for
this Raven and he wasn'treturning.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Floating carrion, there you go, and then you have
the floating buffet for afloating buffet for a raven.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, yes and you have the dove.
And the dove, uh, came backonce exhausted.
There was nowhere to land, itwas tired, and then it got sent
out again and landed in on anolive branch and then, not
having come back, noah said hey,there's a place for it to go.
(28:49):
There must be land.
It's time to get out.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know, I never really thought about the
scavenger versus the.
You know, I don't know what youwould call the opposite of a
scavenger, but I never thoughtabout that.
I always thought that a ravenis black and a dove is white.
So you have this dark light,you know, dark light combination
.
So I sent evil back.
I sent evil out and it nevercame back.
(29:14):
I sent goodness out and it cameback.
That was how I always read that.
Actually, I always read thatthe two birds represented
goodness and evil.
Because, remember, that's whythe earth was cleansed.
It was cleansed so that therewould be no more evil.
It was, you know, destroyed andand wiped clean so there would
be no evil.
So you would, if you sent outevil, you wouldn't want evil to
come back, that's.
(29:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So that was always how I read that no, which is
that that, again, there's asymbolic side of it, and that's
that.
And then there's a literal sideof why didn't it come back?
And because it was, that partwas yeah, yeah well, that's true
.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I never thought that it was eating.
I just thought it was like yeah, you're good, I don't need you.
I've.
I've been on this boat for ayear, says the, says the raven,
and I'm out of here.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Get me out of here and then we get to the point
where javi just mentioned, whichactually is really before we
get into all the things, thingsthat Noah did.
That was a little strange.
The first thing he did was hesacrificed, actually, before we
even get there.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I have something else .
I wanted to add, one of thethings.
As I was reading, I realizedthat there's this really really
cool correlation between thecreation story and this story.
This is technically therecreation story.
Let's be honest, it's therecreation story and the first
thing that happens is he opensthe window.
And what would come in?
(30:29):
When you open a window, breezelight, right.
So the first thing you wouldsee is light.
And you know, you, you look outand you see that there is.
You know there's, there's water.
You know he separated and thenthe water went down.
So he separated the, theheavens, from the earth, and he
separated the waters from thefrom the earth, and and so like.
There's.
If you, if you follow through it, all of the same things happen.
Who's the first to get off theoff the boat is the animals, not
(30:52):
the humans.
And the next thing is theanimals, the animals.
And then the humans come offnext and the humans are to be,
and God says you will bestewards over them.
So again, it's an entireretelling of the creation story.
Again in this story.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
It's far less explicit.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Be fruitful and multiply.
It's exactly like I was saying.
It's the recreation story and Ifound that really fascinating
that the same story is theretwice more creation story.
And I found that reallyfascinating that the same story
is there twice more implicitthan explicit, but it's right
there in your face that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, I'mJavi Marcotte, hard reset and
Jason Holloway.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Restructured you know , so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I just found that fascinating.
I'm not sure I know wherethat's going yet.
I mean I don't know if there'sany further point to that.
I'd love if anybody out therehas any more points that, I'd
love to hear it.
But I found that reallyinteresting.
Don't know what you guys think.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
No, I love it.
It definitely is a recreation.
I mean it has to be, becausethe entire world went away and
he had to restart it Again.
It's that baptism of going downwith death and coming back with
life, and it's beautiful.
Yeah, it's a beautifulsymbolism of what happened.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It happened so quickly I mean, we barely got
out of Genesis before thathappens, the reset, you know it
just kind of reminded me.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We haven't gotten out of Genesis.
We've gotten six chaptersbefore you had to have a hard
reset.
It just goes to show you howhumans are made.
We're like give me free reignand I will wreck it quick.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I will wreck it quick .
Watch me.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, wreck it quick, I willwreck it watch me, that's good,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
So I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to run out of
time.
So it's the quick.
It's the quick like he.
The first thing he does is hesacrifices to god.
God loves the smell.
It's a beautiful moment and andI'm gonna really go over this
quickly but god makes thiscovenant with man again that
he'll never do this again.
That rainbow is going to be thesymbol of him having never
drowning humans again in thatway, and it kind of I'm just
(32:42):
going to fast forward to wherethis is all beautiful, well and
good, and then something reallystrange happens.
After, after noah, who wassomebody who trusted god, who
was good in eyes, who got to besaved from everybody else on
earth, he planted a vineyardwhich, right off the bat I don't
(33:04):
know if there's any nutrientsleft- in the field to plant
after a flood.
But he planted a vineyard andmade grapes and pressed it and
got drunk, yeah, and got nakedand went into his living area,
his tent, and laid there nakeduncovered, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Which would have been really, you know that's.
I'm not saying that's the sin,but I mean that for his sons to
come in, which they will in asecond I kind of jumped the gun
on that one, but would it wouldhave been distasteful, but also
like there's something in the inthe culture, like it would have
been very disrespectful, youknow, like and and disrespectful
to him and disrespectful to thesons, like overall it was just
(33:51):
a really bad situation, rightand so sorry I cut you off there
, but I know you're good.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Actually, just while we're going off on a tangent
real quick, if you have everever heard a jewish person who's
about to take a drink, wine isvery big in jewish culture.
They say l'chaim.
It means to life, it'ssomething positive.
The reason they start that, thereason they do that, is
actually because there's acouple of stories the first few
stories that have to do withwine in the bible are bad
(34:19):
stories.
They end poorly.
So when they drink theyactually say they want something
positive, would let this drinklead to something positive to
life.
And then they take the drinkbecause it started off so poorly
with drinking in the beginning.
That's actually why, whereL'chaim came from, what a great
note.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
But think about what just happened right for Noah.
I just left maybe everythingthat I know.
This just happened.
He just wiped out all myneighbors right, or people that
I know in this world, like Ididn't even know what's coming
up next.
Now I have to cultivate andfigure things out.
I can imagine he was just shook, probably scared.
Did he know what's going upnext?
(34:57):
You know that kind of play wasyour mind, I think?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
maybe no, I definitely think he had a reason
.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, he had a reason.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No, I don't think anybody.
I don't think anybody's likethey don't get it right.
We get why he did it right.
But I think what I find sointeresting about the second
part is number one I kind ofalluded to it earlier which is
that everybody gives Noah thislike saintly, never did anything
wrong, must have been the bestperson ever credit, only to find
out, look, he's human, he doeshuman stuff and he makes human
(35:28):
mistakes and he gets drunkenough to end up naked in his
tent where his sons will walk in.
I mean, that's clearly you havedrunk enough to not be there,
entirely right.
But what I've actually foundeven more interesting this read
around was that the first soncomes in and sees it, which
(35:50):
first of all, it's disrespectful.
It's like, you know, it'sreally anti the culture, like
it's just not a good thing forhim to do, and he walks out and
basically tells his brothers,which is again even more
disrespectful.
Now he's probably making fun ofhis father or he's, or he's not
telling his, he's telling hisbrothers about the sin that his
(36:10):
father has created, which again,it's just like it's kind of
gossipy, right.
It's kind of like it's like hey, look, he did this bad thing.
And then the other brotherscome in, they face backwards,
they bring the robe and theycover him up right and Noah ends
up basically cursing it's Shem,right, shem is the one who it's
Ham, ham, ham yeah.
Ham's the bad one, right?
(36:30):
So Noah basically curses Hamand blesses Shem.
And I forgot his name, theother brother, japheth.
I thought you were going to sayit was Jason.
I was like hold up there.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was Japheth right.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And so he Joking yeah , clearly, so they get blessed.
And again, one of the things Ifound interesting about this is
all of the world was destroyedbecause of sin, because of not
following God and following theright things to do the right.
You know kuth things to do thecivil things, to do the mannered
(37:05):
things, to do the good thingsto do.
That's why the world wasdestroyed.
And then you're on a boat for ayear, you get off the boat and
you're still gonna do somethings like that.
No Consequence, right.
And so the two brothers who didact with kuth, with direction,
with knowledge of what is good,what is right and what is wrong,
they get the blessing.
And again, I think this is justanother way to say like, look,
(37:27):
you can go through it all, youcan see it firsthand, but if you
don't learn your lesson from it, it's not going to pay off,
like you have to be willing todo the work after in order to
get that.
I just thought that was reallyreally, really interesting.
That that's the very firststory right after the boat we're
looking at.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
This is Genesis 9-1.
This is where this curse comesin.
And what's even more astoundingis Noah actually doesn't curse
Ham.
He curses Ham's son, canaan.
Right right, rightaan, right,right, right, right, right.
And now you're going.
You know, listen, if you wantto talk about embarrassment and
you said, hey, you know, noahwas embarrassed and and really
(38:05):
went over the edge and andcursed his.
Why would he curse his son?
And this is a question I get alot is, if he was mad at ham,
why in the world would he havecursed his son?
And I actually have a theory onthis, and I don't know if you
guys have heard any theories orif you're curious about mine.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I'm curious about yours because my question was
kind of similar to where youwere going with it, jason, but
more along the line of why inthis order that he's like.
I almost feel like maybe thisis a little bit outside of this
conversation, but I almost feellike it was maybe an
afterthought within the author,knowing the history of what
things happened, because it justseems so prophetic.
(38:44):
It really is.
It's really prophetic.
It's like curse be Canaan.
And Shem is going to overtakeCanaan, pretty much, and the
descendants of all of that it'snot just them and their
immediate pretty much, and thedescendants of all of that,
right, it's not just them andtheir immediate family, but the
future of this descendants.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Okay, Well here comes my theory.
You ready for this?
There is no way Noah could havecursed Ham because God already
blessed them.
God said said when they got offI'm blessing Noah and your sons
.
Specifically says that in theBible I'm blessing Noah and your
sons.
How in the world is Noah goingto take away God's blessing?
(39:26):
So the next person he had to goto was his son, because that
one was not blessed, so he hadto curse what wasn't blessed by
God.
Interesting, that's clever.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Got to say that that's clever.
It's a clever conception, butit's also if that's really
Noah's intent, that's also veryclever of Noah.
He's like well, you've got theprotection of aura around you,
but I'm going to go to the nextone.
That's pretty clever.
I hadn't thought of that.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's just one of those thoughts of going why,
yeah, it's just one of thosethoughts of going.
Why in the world would Noah?
Because you can't think thatNoah all of a sudden is a cruel
person.
We all admitted him drinking.
You know, shoot, I would havebeen.
You know I'd have sampled alittle bit of the Manischewitz
myself, but you know this is notsomebody who dislikes his
family.
He was embarrassed, but I thinkthat he also realized that he
(40:14):
had to punish, just like God didas a father.
There's punishment involved.
I can't punish what God hasblessed, so I'll punish the next
thing.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, I also think that.
Look, genesis is a reallycomplex book.
It is not just a literal book,but it's also an.
I mean, many people think it'salso an ideological book.
Right, like there is, there wasa historical event, but it's
also there to tell you a lotabout why things are the way
they were.
And Genesis was written abajillion years ago and later
you would find out about Canaanand you would find out about,
(40:46):
you know, the descendants ofthese people and those people
and how the politics betweenthem work, how the tribalism
behind them work, who becomesthe Egyptians and who becomes
the?
You know the Cush.
The Cush came from Japheth, Ithink, right.
And so you find out that thosepeople came from here and the
followers are sorry, the sons ofShem are the Israelites and the
(41:07):
Mediterranean people and theCanaanites.
Anyway, like all of this stuff,it's not just literal.
Even if it is literal, it's notjust literal.
It's also a world history ofwhy the Canaanites are the way
they are, why do they believethe things they do, why are the
Egyptians the way they are?
Why are the Ethiopians the waythey are and acting the way they
are, and why is this the, notthe academy?
(41:29):
Why is this the dynamic betweenthem?
And it goes back and tells thatstory.
So again, just super, super,super interesting.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, listen.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, this is by far.
This is up there.
You know, with it's right upthere, the Exodus is one of my
favorites, this one is one of myfavorites.
I'm so glad we had a chance toreally kind of go over this.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Before we end, though , there's actually something I
think we kind of glossed overthat I'd love to talk about a
little bit more.
You talked about getting offthe boat, and I think this is a
really beautiful way to end.
You talked about getting offthe boat, and there were the
sacrifices, there was the altar,there was the thankfulness
right, but it wasn't just Noahwho made a promise at that point
and a thankfulness right, itwas God.
(42:11):
God made a promise too.
God made a promise in thatmoment that he would no longer
destroy the world with water.
He made the promise that hewould no longer.
You know, he would no longer dothat.
But, more importantly, you know, we talk about the rainbow.
You mentioned the rainbowearlier.
I think I read one time, orheard one time, that it doesn't
actually say rainbow, it saysbow in Hebrew.
Right, it actually says bow inHebrew, and one of the meanings
(42:37):
of that, probably among many,many, is that the bow, in that
time, would have also been anarrow.
You know bow and arrow, andthat rainbow, that bow, is
always facing heaven, not earth.
So God is taking responsibility.
God is taking responsibility,just like he does in other
covenants, saying if somethinggoes wrong, I take the
responsibility.
I'm the one who's putting itout here and I'm taking the
responsibility.
God is taking responsibility,just like he does in other
(42:57):
covenants, saying if somethinggoes wrong, I take the
responsibility, I'm the onewho's putting it out here and
I'm taking the responsibility.
So the bow is pointed towardsme.
So the rainbow is also the signof responsibility of God to
take care of us.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
I think that is a great way toend.
I mean, what more beautifulimagery than God being
responsible for taking care ofhis people?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, and this wasn't something that I read.
Actually, funny enough, thevery first time I heard that
story was actually in a kid'sbook.
It was a kid's biblical telling, and you start to learn that
that's one of those things.
But I continue to look at thatbow image, and not only is it
the arrow pointed at God and notat us, because God takes the
ultimate responsibility, butit's also when you look at a bow
(43:38):
or a dome like that.
That's a form of protection.
You are under the bow, you areboth behind the person shooting,
but you're also underneath theshelter of that bow and again.
So now, every time I see arainbow, I kind of think of that
and I think that that's whatthis is all about.
God is my protector, god is theultimate protector, and if I
(43:58):
want to, if I want thatprotection, I need to stand
behind him.
I need to not try to stand infront of him, or else I'm going
to get hit with that arrow,right.
I need to be under theprotection of God by being
behind him and behind his drawnbow.
So I don't know, I just wantedto share that as well.
Yeah, and his drawn bow.
So I don't know, I just wantedto share that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, and the covenant was to all people.
It was never to the chosenpeople, this was all people.
This is just an absolutebeautiful way to end it.
I appreciate that, jason.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Cool.
So, guys, this has been awesome.
This is one of my favoritestories as well.
All of Genesis is my favoritestories, but this one
particularly has just more andmore and more layers.
So, for everybody listening, weappreciate you, as always.
We hope that you can give ussome likes, some comments, some
shares.
(44:43):
We would appreciate somesubscribes.
Now that we're on YouTube, we'dlove to see the, we'd love to
see those numbers grow so morepeople can find out.
But we appreciate yourquestions and comments.
Actually, we're getting morequestions and comments from you
guys now, so I think we'reprobably going to start doing
some episodes with where weaddress them directly.
So we're looking forward tothat as well.
But again, always appreciateyour time and looking forward to
talking to you soon.
Thanks again, bye-bye, byeLater, guys.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Gentlemen, the story that weknow of Noah did you know that
he brought animals two by twoonto the ark?
I know this story.
Did you know that that'sactually not accurate?
(00:23):
He did not bring two of everyanimal onto the ark.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
That's what I meant.
I do not.
Yes, yeah, there are so manythings about this.
Seven pairs.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Seven pairs of clean animals.
Yeah, one pair of uncleananimals.
This story is just filled withdifferent symbolisms and
different things that we thinkwe know the story.
Another one is it did not.
They were not on the arc for 40days and 40 nights.
Right, they were actually onthe arc for about a year, yep.
So this is one of those storieswhere it's amazing how much you
(00:55):
think you know about a storybecause of all the things you've
heard, but really, when youlook into it and you go deeper
into it, you go, wow, okay,there is an entire story that I
never even realized was there,and that's what I think we
should jump into today.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Veggie.
Tales lie to me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So let's jump right into how this all is kind of set
up.
So right now we have a verysinful world, and when I say
sinful world, there's a lot ofacademia that go back and forth
about what was sinful about thisworld, but we know that this
was human beings really goingoff the deep end, acting foolish
, hurting each other, lying toeach other, manipulating the
(01:36):
world around them, beingcompletely opposite of what God
created us to be, created us tobe.
So God basically came up with aplan, and his plan was I am
going to rid the world ofeverybody, and that was it.
I'm done with man.
It's a very scary thought, buthe found favor in one righteous
man, his family, noah, and thisis Genesis six through nine.
(02:02):
This is what that story comesfrom, and he gives Noah a task
which I actually love.
I'm just going to point thisout.
His task was to build an arc.
To build this arc, he gave himthe exact plans for it and this
gentleman was to build the arcand his name Noah.
In Hebrew is Noah meaning restor comfort.
(02:23):
I'm going.
This is anything but restful.
If the entire this is anythingbut restful, the entire story is
anything but restful.
But his name was rest andthat's it.
He built the ark and it wastime to bring the animals on,
and God is very specific.
You want to talk about the Godof details.
I know that if you look atboats today, these boats, they
(02:44):
are made in that almost exactshape that God laid out
thousands of years ago.
The animals that were broughton seven pairs of clean and one
pair of unclean.
This is so you can actually dosacrifices afterwards.
Birds were, I mean we're talkingabout.
Everything was thought down,even to the detail of.
I want the kinds of animals,not species, and that's
(03:07):
important because of how manywe're bringing on.
So it wasn't.
I want every species of dog.
I don't want, you know, the,the chihuahua and the bulldog
and the golden lab.
I just want a, the pair of of acanine, um, which is the kind.
So it's.
This is the god of details.
(03:28):
It's amazing so far, and ithasn't even started raining yet.
Yeah, um, and noah through thistime is also not just building.
He is trying to tell everybodyabout what's happening.
He's trying to actually correctthe world and say we are acting
wrong.
This is going to happen.
(03:48):
It's going to flood.
We need to change our ways andnobody was listening.
So this Noah is truly trying todo the right thing, and I'm
going to pause there.
We're going to get into theactual flood in a second.
But one of the things that a lotof people look at and they say,
hey, there's a flood story inevery culture.
(04:11):
Have you guys heard that?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So there are over 200 culturesthat have a flood story in it.
Most famous do you guys knowwhat?
The most famous one is the epicof gilgamesh.
I knew you'd know that one.
It's the mesopotamian epic ofgilgamesh.
And this is a lot of timeswhere people say, well, this
(04:33):
didn't happen, because all theseother places have the same
flood story and this is justmythology and all that.
How do you guys feel about that?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
go ahead.
Ob far as mythology, well, youknow me, I take it very literal.
I take it as they're alltelling the same story.
They're telling the same storyof what we know it to be as Noah
and that's they're pretty muchwriting the same accounts.
It's almost the same thing.
When they talk about you know,I feel like the one to come, and
(05:03):
they're talking about Jesus asthe one to come as a savior.
So that's how I see it, as allthe other stories of different
countries and stuff like thatthat mentioned this kind of
flood, I don't think it wasmultiple floods in different
kind of areas to create thisthing.
I think it was one story.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, one global flood.
I mean I think the story itselfis unique for reasons we'll
talk about throughout, but Imean, the fact that there is a
flood story in every not everyin many other cultures is proof
that there was a flood of somesort.
You know to what extent, Idon't think is always knowable,
(05:43):
I think but the fact that thereis one tells you that there was
a flood or there was asignificant amount of flooding,
or there was a significant eventof flooding, and that alone
gives you enough faith to keepdigging through the story.
Right Now, the account is very,very different.
The account is very different.
One of the things I've heard,particularly with Epic of
Gilgamesh, is that when you'relooking at the flood story, the
(06:07):
flood story was not about savingthe world, which is what God
did.
It was about punishing theworld, and in the Noah story
it's about saving.
I mean, yes, there's apunishment there which, by the
way, we got to go back to,because for me that's the
beginning of the story, right,but it's not punishment, it's
redemption.
And, but it's not punishment,it's redemption.
And in the other stories it'sjust punishment, and in the
(06:27):
story it's redemption and it'skind of a reset and it's a love
story that has a bad beginningmaybe, but it's a love story
nonetheless.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, I definitely agree.
I think when you look at for me, I always look at the story
that comes after that the Towerof Babel, where he divides
people I'm going.
If you look at the story thatcomes after that the Tower of
Babel, where he divides peopleI'm going.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there are
ziggurats.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there are pyramids
.
If you look at multiple placesin the world, there's this flood
account.
It is very possible that thiswas a flood that actually
(06:58):
happened, that people discussedthrough generations and then,
when it got to the Tower ofBabel and they all split and
went to different parts of theworld, they brought their
version of the story with them,and this is what we see is a
story that I believe alsoliterally happened.
But, jason, why don't we,before I jump further, why don't
you say, if you said you knowyou had one from the beginning
(07:18):
of the story, let's jump rightinto that?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I mean, look, one of the biggest problems that I
think anybody has with the Bibleand this is anybody who has a
problem with the Bible is whywould God kill the entire earth
and every animal and everyeverything at all Like?
I don't even need to hear therest of the story.
You know, as a person who'sfighting against the Bible for
whatever reason, because I'magnostic, because I'm atheist,
because I'm, whatever, thosepeople are going to ask this
(07:41):
question and it's a tough thingto encounter.
You know why.
And, by the way, the languageis difficult.
The language in the Bible saysthat God regretted or I think
the word is regret regretted hisdecision to make people, to
create these people and man.
That's some really tough stuffto deal with.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, I mean I no, I was going to say I think it's
you're right.
It's a tough thing to to kind oftake in and to know to see that
God is does this right?
I mean we want to see God as aloving God that loves us and
love his creation and wants topat us in the back whenever we
do wrong or just kind of hug uswhen we do wrong, and stuff like
(08:24):
that.
And I think you're right.
I think when I first read itthe first couple times I'm like
why would you do this?
This is ridiculous.
Why don't you just stop evil?
Just bloop, you know whateverit is, and I think that's his
bloop.
Bloop is the flood.
So I think to me I love, likewhat you said, jason, before is
a redemption story and becauseof that redemption story we see
(08:45):
God's mercy, god's love for whathe has, his intention from the
beginning, which was to love hispeople and to love the earth
that he made.
That it was good and I thinkthat's what we see there and I
love that you mentioned that.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
For me, when you look at the meaning of water in
Hebrew, it's life orsanctification.
And when we look at that, welook at a mikvah bath, we look
at baptism, we look at differentthings where water is used as a
way to bring forth life andit's also a way to purify.
And when I look at that, it ishard because we're saying, hey,
there was an entire world ofpeople at this point that were
(09:25):
being killed from the flood, butthis is God's sanctification,
this is purification of theworld, this was his, this was
the world's baptism.
And for me, I'm saying I mightnot understand that because I'm
not God, but I have to trust inhis plan.
And I don't know what happenedto all of the people there.
(09:47):
If you go by Jewish standards,they would have all been in
Sheol and eventually, after that, been in heaven.
So I'm going is it really cruelfor all of these population to
be in heaven?
Is that something where I'mangry at God about?
Or do I say listen, it's hisworld, it's his creation.
He's allowed to do with it ashe wishes.
(10:08):
And if we were not doing thethings that we were supposed to
be doing, he is absolutelyallowed to punish us, but in the
terms of, in my mind,purification to give out better
life.
He was giving out life to giveout better life.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
He was giving out life.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I see thatfor sure.
I think that one of theproblems I had, especially when
I wasn't a Christian, was thiswhole God knows, you don't thing
, and I get that that's maybe alittle bit selfish to.
I just don't.
I've never loved that answerBecause it doesn't solidify
anything.
I mean, it makes you have tohave more faith, which is
(10:45):
probably the point.
But as I've looked at the storyover the years, one of the
things that has come to me andone of the ways I've rectified
this whole baptism of the earthtype thing is that,
realistically, we have the storyof Adam and Eve where we became
sinners.
Right, we are sinners.
We became accountable to ourown sins, and that's the sinners
.
We became accountable to ourown sins, and that's the truth.
(11:06):
We became accountable to ourown sins.
We would die because of thosesins.
That was told to us verydirectly from the Garden of Eden
.
If you eat from the tree ofknowledge of good and evil, you
will die.
Right, that's very clear,explicit, and we did it anyway.
And so now you have this timeafter Adam and Eve and after
(11:27):
their offspring and so forth andso forth and down the line, and
it very clearly lays out thatpeople at the time were acting.
You know, all the feelings intheir heart were bad.
Right, it says that all of theywere sinful.
They were I even think I'mtaking extra biblical, like
mental things, but like you'retalking about a society that has
no major rules yet, no legalsystem, no law system, no, none
(11:51):
of those things.
And you have to imagine, earlyhumans would be animalistic,
they would be tribal, selfish,violent.
You know, they would befighting amongst themselves for
power and things like that.
And so they've done all thesesinful things.
And God is coming along andsaying he's not saying I'm
killing you because you suck.
He's saying look, you knew whatwould happen if you sinned like
(12:13):
this.
Just, the punishment is cominga little earlier than you think
it might come.
And I'm going to find somebodywho is not so tribal, somebody
who's not so animalistic,somebody who is more civilized
and focused on me and my waysand the goodness, not focused on
the tree, but focused on me,which is why he calls out Noah.
(12:34):
He says he was pleased withNoah.
He was pleased with Noah andwho he was, which is why he
decides to extend the life ofhumanity, through the civilized
one, through the godly one.
And so it's a long way ofsaying I'm not saying I think
it's great to kill offeverything in the universe, but
it's understandable when it hasalready been laid out as that.
(12:57):
That's just, the consequence ofsin is death, and if I need to
reset the stage for all thesecurrent sinners who are not
going anywhere positive, thenit's not a completely
unreasonable thing to do, Iguess.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, I mean, and it's listen, like I said, when I
mentioned something like hey,you know, this is God, and
sometimes we can't understandthat.
It's not saying that he is sohigh and powerful, although he
is.
But there are some things wherewe, being three very different
guys, there's some things youguys are going to do, I go.
I don't understand that becauseI wasn't born and raised that
way.
(13:31):
So, for me.
I'm going to look at it and go.
That doesn't make sense.
Listen, you you've mentionedyou love Indian food.
You love spicy Indian food.
I'm going I don't know how youcan do that.
I that's not me and I'm lookingat going.
I have no idea how you canconsume that much spicy food and
not be crying and miserable.
And meanwhile you're going.
This is the greatest thing ever.
(13:52):
This is the greatest meal.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So after he eats it, he cries.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
But that's something where I look at God, I go I'm
not going to understand himbecause I don't have the
feelings that he has.
I didn't make this creation.
That turned on me that way.
But then there are the thingsthat I think that he does.
That shows the loving side aswell, even in the same story,
and this is something I alwayslooked at this and love the way
(14:20):
this played out In Genesis 7.16.
It talks about when Noah is nowfinally on the ark.
He's built it, he brought allthe animals on.
He goes on.
God shuts him in.
He doesn't shut the door.
It says God shuts him in, um.
And when you look at the wordshut, it's the same word used as
when God shut out Adam and Evefrom Eden, or when God shut the
(14:44):
door during Passover.
And it's this divine controlover life and death.
So even while he's killing,he's having divine control over
life and I love that.
I love that imagery of Godhimself protecting you.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Has wrapped you in his embrace and said you are
safe in here.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, so even in this story, where you can focus on
the bad and the horror and thewhy would he do this?
You look at the other side ofhim going.
How beautiful and how loving ishe that he personally shut the
door to make sure that Noah wassafe.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Noah and his family, so I just I sure that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Noah was safe Noah and his family.
So I just I love that part ofit.
I just think it.
It just.
To me, it's exactly what God'sabout, which is, yes, he's all
love, but he is also just.
You can't have one without theother.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Right.
I mean, that's exactly right.
You can't have one without theother, right.
And again, the people of theworld at the time were being
were living in a wrong way.
They were not following the Godthat they knew and the way they
knew they should be followingHim, which actually, by the way,
I actually saw a coupleinteresting notes, too, about.
You know it would talk aboutwhat the people weren't doing,
and then the Bible would givethese notifications that you
(16:04):
know in Leviticus is when youactually find out what these
laws are, or, in Numbers, youwould find out what these laws
are that they weren't doing, andI actually found that
interesting, David, and I wantedto ask you about that, because
you know you don't find outabout the laws until Leviticus,
or something you know, like youdon't find out about some of the
other things you're supposed tobooks, and yet in Genesis
they're already not followingthem.
(16:26):
So it goes to say that theremust have been some knowledge of
what is right and what is wrongby God's standards, even before
Leviticus was written.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Before you answer that, david, I wanted to say
when you think about the time inbetween Adam and Noah, I would
like to think and the Biblemaybe mentions it here and there
, but I like to think that hedid put something in there to
kind of save us from doing badis what I'm trying to say it
(16:58):
took to Noah and the violenceand how out of control it was
for him to wipe it out with theflood and all that stuff.
I like to think those manyyears, which is a couple hundred
years in between, that therewas hey, do good.
I like to think that God putgood morals in our hearts.
We're always seeking, we knowwhat's good and bad regardless.
(17:19):
I really like to think that andI think during that time, like
you're saying, with the law itwas already written in our
hearts.
We see that with Cain and Abelit was wrong.
It was no law written already,but it was wrong that he killed
his brother To give you anexample.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, romans 1 actually says something about
that too.
Paul says that all men know God, whether or not they have
called him by that name or not.
So that part I definitely agree.
I not that thing.
So that part I definitely agree.
I mean Paul says that.
On the other hand, I mean itdoes also very clearly say that
(17:53):
they knew that they were notdoing the law.
I mean it says it very, veryclearly in Genesis.
So again, it just goes to showyou that, even though it wasn't
written until Leviticus, it hadalready been handed by God in
Genesis.
Who he handed to may not bewritten down, but it was because
it was there.
Mic drop, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And here's there's a couple of schools of thought.
Is one Javier hit the nail onthe head, which is it was
written in our hearts and theyknew the law.
Another one that that has isyou know, when Adam and Eve,
when they ate of the tree ofknowledge of good and evil, they
were kicked out.
They were kicked out of Eden.
It does not say that theirknowledge was removed.
So is it possible that the treethat they ate of was the one
(18:27):
that produced the knowledge thatthey passed down as the law?
So that's another school ofthought that comes from some of
the sages.
Again, I always say I know 100%what happened over the last 47
years, because that's how old Iam.
I have no idea what happened6,000 years ago, but it's a
beautiful thought to think thatAdam and Eve still did retain
some of that knowledge and wereable to pass that down.
(18:49):
And that makes it even moresevere of if they knew good and
evil and they chose evil andthey were passing down these
laws from God and people stillchose evil.
This is also why God is sayingyou know what?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
enough I have an interesting question that I was
thinking about as I was readingthis.
God chose Noah because Noah wasa righteous man.
He was right in his eyes, buthe also chose his family to go
with him.
Were they righteous as the sameas he was Right To say like
Adam?
That's a bad example, because Ican't enable, but do you get
(19:22):
what I'm saying?
He brought his family with himbut Noah was the righteous one,
so I like to think, were theyjust?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
as clean and, and you know, righteous.
I don't know if it's just asrighteous.
I think it's very specific.
You know, if we stick just tothe Bible, which is is the best
way to go.
It talks about Noah.
Now, noah did need a family toreproduce afterwards.
And that's that we'll talk aboutthat after the flood, which is
the promise of the new covenantand all that.
But he did need a family tocontinue the the expansion of
(19:52):
the population on the earth.
But I do think that, if we justgo by the Bible, noah was
righteous, he was had favor byGod and family.
You're just going along for theride and you got lucky.
Well, here's.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Here's the other part too.
I mean, we have thisrelationship with God as a
father-parent, you know,parent-child relationship, right
, and so we are not worthy butwe follow our Father and that
makes us more worthy.
So, even if the children andthe wives by the way, it wasn't
just His children, it was Hischildren and their wives, their
wives it doesn't mean that theyhave to be worthy as well, it
(20:25):
means that they have to followtheir father, which, again, one
thing I want to touch on beforewe finish is that we keep
talking about Noah as being sorighteous, but let's not forget
what happens after the flood.
So we'll get to that later.
I don't want to spoil that, butI mean, look, nobody's that
righteous and I think that's oneof the points of the story
which I love Like he was, itwasn't that he was righteous
(20:46):
enough to get on this boat anddo all the things he was about
to do.
It was that he trusted in Godenough to do the things he
wanted.
And that is what righteousnessin our lives is right.
We're not righteous, but we cantry to be, we can follow
righteousness, we can followbehind righteousness and try to
get there.
But again, we'll talk aboutNoah's, you know, foible.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I think that's a good point, jason.
I think that's a really.
I'm glad that you said that.
I think that's exactly whatpeople should know that even
Noah, I like to think even Noah,moses right, and all these
great big characters that we see, that are know, we feel like
we're called by god and likewe're not, we're not worthy, and
it's like no, this is anothercharacter, most likely, that was
(21:30):
just as flawed as everybodyelse around them, but still
followed god's heart and triedhis best to do good.
You know, and that's what weall for sure, we still for sure
until this day after noah, whichis why we needed jesus.
So I think you bring a goodpoint there, jay.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's the only qualification, guys.
I mean that's the onlyqualification.
Like nobody here on this youknow we're talking right now or
nobody outside this room isrighteous, they are.
There are people who arefollowing God and there are
people who are not.
There are people who are tryingto do the will of God and there
are people who are not.
And that's as close as you'regoing to get.
(22:08):
Like you know, we've alreadytalked before, we're sinners, we
don't deserve heaven, we don'tdeserve God and the mercy and
the grace and the love that weget.
But we get it, and you knowanyway.
So let's talk about the flood.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, flood well, real quick, just because it's
funny, javi, you brought upmoses, the the word arctava.
No, the word arctava actuallymeans box and it's the same word
used as moses's basket when hewas going down yep, down the
road so this is actually.
They're both saved from watersof chaos, that's true, right so
(22:42):
when you look at that.
Yeah, it's just.
It's just one of thosecomparisons.
You mentioned moses, I justfigured I'd throw that one out
there.
That's actually the same word,such a great note the ark and
the basket.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And, by the way, david, you just mentioned waters
of chaos.
Can we spend a moment talkingabout that?
You just kind of glossed overthat one, but I mean, water in
the Old Testament typicallymeans chaos, right, it's.
It's like one of the universalsymbols for chaos and unrest and
, and you know, you don't knowwhen it's going to.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You know storm and tide's going to come up anyway,
so go ahead.
No, it actually is both.
It's almost like a shalom whereyou have hello, goodbye and
peace.
It's the same thing.
It can be in chaos, but it alsocan mean uh sanctification and
purification in life.
But we are.
So we have this flood, and herebecomes one of my favorite
things is so Genesis 711.
I'm just going to start there.
This is all of the apologeticsproof, all the scientific
(23:32):
evidence that this flood to meactually happened.
And in Genesis 711, it talksabout the fountains of the deep
that burst forth.
So it's not just hey, it rained.
And people say listen, if itrains every day for 40 days,
there's no way you can dropenough rain.
Uh, in 2014, scientists found alevel in the crust of a crystal
(23:54):
called ring I'm going to justread it so I get it right ring,
woodite, and these are said tohold water in them and the in
their structures.
They can hold water enoughwater to equal three times all
of the ocean water in the world.
So when it says the fountainsof the deep burst forth and they
(24:16):
found now three times oceanwater below the ocean, it just
again.
That's one of those thingswhere I'm saying is that proof?
Maybe not on its own, but itdoes say in the bible in 2011,
the chilean desert, they found80 whale remains, plus whale
remains of other fish, shark,things like that.
They found trees and plantsfossilized standing up,
(24:39):
creatures fossilized halfwaythrough eating.
They have found on mountaintops, sea life and fossils.
There is just an astoundingamount of evidence that there
was a flood.
I believe it was global.
Some people say it was one area, and that was it.
It was localized, but I feellike there is enough evidence in
(25:00):
enough areas of the world toshow a global flood.
I'm just I always get excitedabout this because I love taking
the bible literally and seeingyou know, kind of, if there's
any evidence for that.
And there's some strongevidence for the flood that's
good yeah, I think I've seen,and now we forgot it was I
forgot it was calling.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
It was like talking about noah's ark and just kind
of the, the, I think, thesediment rocks and how, like, if
it would have took so manymillions of years of the water
to recede back or whatever it is, it wouldn't like it was.
You could tell it was a recent.
Uh, what is it flooded?
Right, it was a what do youcall it?
A young earth kind of thing.
Right, it was like a recentthing.
(25:40):
I'm sorry I don't know the term.
That probably should have neverbrought it up, but I I think it
was a good documentary.
I think it was called Noah'sArk, history Found or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
No, there's quite a bit, and it does show a lot of
evidence of a rapid flooding andthat kind of leads.
Rapid flooding leads right intothe other thing that most
people think.
So, aside from two pairs ofanimals or one pair of animal,
it is hey, it rained 40 days, 40nights, but they did not spend
40 days and 40 nights on the arc.
They were actually on there forabout a year.
(26:11):
They it rained for 40 days and40 nights, but it prevailed for
about 150 days and then it took150 days to recede.
So you're talking about 370days total that they were on the
ark.
That is a lot of work to feedthat many animals.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
yeah, for a year let me go back to it is this wow, is
genesis history.
That's the documentary.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Okay, genesis history talks about the science behind
creation and the flip okay,great, so so 370 days of feeding
animals, taking care of animalsAgain.
Noach means rest.
I'm just telling you there's norest for this man.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
There's no rest for that man.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't know who named him, but boy.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I wanted to say also, Dave, you were saying that
enough to feed the animals, buthe also sacrificed some animals,
right?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I think that was at the end, at the end of the flood
, they, they did the sacrificesfor, cleanly for and he created
altar clean animals for thosepurposes right yeah, which we'll
get into.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
So let's, let's fast forward.
I mean, listen, the flood is anamazing story but to be honest,
it's, it's scary.
There's a flood, it's a globalflood, it it rains.
700, 370 days later, noah doessomething to see if he can get
out because, you remember, godshut them in.
He has no idea if it's safe outthere.
There was a flood.
(27:33):
I can't imagine the noises thatwould have come for him and his
family on the ark.
But he is now at the pointwhere he releases two birds,
yeah, into the air.
Do you guys know what thosebirds are?
A dove and a raven?
Yep, and it's reallyinteresting when you start
looking at.
There's a symbolism for them,obviously, but also there's a
(27:58):
practical reason.
One was he released the ravenas a bird first and never came
back.
Because this is a bird, who's ascavenger bird, and if you have
an entire world that wasdrowned, there's a lot to pick
off of.
So he didn't come back becausethis was Thanksgiving meal for
this Raven and he wasn'treturning.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Floating carrion, there you go, and then you have
the floating buffet for afloating buffet for a raven.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, yes and you have the dove.
And the dove, uh, came backonce exhausted.
There was nowhere to land, itwas tired, and then it got sent
out again and landed in on anolive branch and then, not
having come back, noah said hey,there's a place for it to go.
(28:49):
There must be land.
It's time to get out.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know, I never really thought about the
scavenger versus the.
You know, I don't know what youwould call the opposite of a
scavenger, but I never thoughtabout that.
I always thought that a ravenis black and a dove is white.
So you have this dark light,you know, dark light combination
.
So I sent evil back.
I sent evil out and it nevercame back.
(29:14):
I sent goodness out and it cameback.
That was how I always read that.
Actually, I always read thatthe two birds represented
goodness and evil.
Because, remember, that's whythe earth was cleansed.
It was cleansed so that therewould be no more evil.
It was, you know, destroyed andand wiped clean so there would
be no evil.
So you would, if you sent outevil, you wouldn't want evil to
come back, that's.
(29:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So that was always how I read that no, which is
that that, again, there's asymbolic side of it, and that's
that.
And then there's a literal sideof why didn't it come back?
And because it was, that partwas yeah, yeah well, that's true
.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I never thought that it was eating.
I just thought it was like yeah, you're good, I don't need you.
I've.
I've been on this boat for ayear, says the, says the raven,
and I'm out of here.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Get me out of here and then we get to the point
where javi just mentioned, whichactually is really before we
get into all the things, thingsthat Noah did.
That was a little strange.
The first thing he did was hesacrificed, actually, before we
even get there.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I have something else .
I wanted to add, one of thethings.
As I was reading, I realizedthat there's this really really
cool correlation between thecreation story and this story.
This is technically therecreation story.
Let's be honest, it's therecreation story and the first
thing that happens is he opensthe window.
And what would come in?
(30:29):
When you open a window, breezelight, right.
So the first thing you wouldsee is light.
And you know, you, you look outand you see that there is.
You know there's, there's water.
You know he separated and thenthe water went down.
So he separated the, theheavens, from the earth, and he
separated the waters from thefrom the earth, and and so like.
There's.
If you, if you follow through it, all of the same things happen.
Who's the first to get off theoff the boat is the animals, not
(30:52):
the humans.
And the next thing is theanimals, the animals.
And then the humans come offnext and the humans are to be,
and God says you will bestewards over them.
So again, it's an entireretelling of the creation story.
Again in this story.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
It's far less explicit.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Be fruitful and multiply.
It's exactly like I was saying.
It's the recreation story and Ifound that really fascinating
that the same story is theretwice more creation story.
And I found that reallyfascinating that the same story
is there twice more implicitthan explicit, but it's right
there in your face that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, I'mJavi Marcotte, hard reset and
Jason Holloway.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Restructured you know , so I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I just found that fascinating.
I'm not sure I know wherethat's going yet.
I mean I don't know if there'sany further point to that.
I'd love if anybody out therehas any more points that, I'd
love to hear it.
But I found that reallyinteresting.
Don't know what you guys think.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
No, I love it.
It definitely is a recreation.
I mean it has to be, becausethe entire world went away and
he had to restart it Again.
It's that baptism of going downwith death and coming back with
life, and it's beautiful.
Yeah, it's a beautifulsymbolism of what happened.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
It happened so quickly I mean, we barely got
out of Genesis before thathappens, the reset, you know it
just kind of reminded me.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
We haven't gotten out of Genesis.
We've gotten six chaptersbefore you had to have a hard
reset.
It just goes to show you howhumans are made.
We're like give me free reignand I will wreck it quick.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I will wreck it quick .
Watch me.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, wreck it quick, I willwreck it watch me, that's good,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
So I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to run out of
time.
So it's the quick.
It's the quick like he.
The first thing he does is hesacrifices to god.
God loves the smell.
It's a beautiful moment and andI'm gonna really go over this
quickly but god makes thiscovenant with man again that
he'll never do this again.
That rainbow is going to be thesymbol of him having never
drowning humans again in thatway, and it kind of I'm just
(32:42):
going to fast forward to wherethis is all beautiful, well and
good, and then something reallystrange happens.
After, after noah, who wassomebody who trusted god, who
was good in eyes, who got to besaved from everybody else on
earth, he planted a vineyardwhich, right off the bat I don't
(33:04):
know if there's any nutrientsleft- in the field to plant
after a flood.
But he planted a vineyard andmade grapes and pressed it and
got drunk, yeah, and got nakedand went into his living area,
his tent, and laid there nakeduncovered, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Which would have been really, you know that's.
I'm not saying that's the sin,but I mean that for his sons to
come in, which they will in asecond I kind of jumped the gun
on that one, but would it wouldhave been distasteful, but also
like there's something in the inthe culture, like it would have
been very disrespectful, youknow, like and and disrespectful
to him and disrespectful to thesons, like overall it was just
(33:51):
a really bad situation, rightand so sorry I cut you off there
, but I know you're good.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Actually, just while we're going off on a tangent
real quick, if you have everever heard a jewish person who's
about to take a drink, wine isvery big in jewish culture.
They say l'chaim.
It means to life, it'ssomething positive.
The reason they start that, thereason they do that, is
actually because there's acouple of stories the first few
stories that have to do withwine in the bible are bad
(34:19):
stories.
They end poorly.
So when they drink theyactually say they want something
positive, would let this drinklead to something positive to
life.
And then they take the drinkbecause it started off so poorly
with drinking in the beginning.
That's actually why, whereL'chaim came from, what a great
note.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
But think about what just happened right for Noah.
I just left maybe everythingthat I know.
This just happened.
He just wiped out all myneighbors right, or people that
I know in this world, like Ididn't even know what's coming
up next.
Now I have to cultivate andfigure things out.
I can imagine he was just shook, probably scared.
Did he know what's going upnext?
(34:57):
You know that kind of play wasyour mind, I think?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
maybe no, I definitely think he had a reason
.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, he had a reason.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No, I don't think anybody.
I don't think anybody's likethey don't get it right.
We get why he did it right.
But I think what I find sointeresting about the second
part is number one I kind ofalluded to it earlier which is
that everybody gives Noah thislike saintly, never did anything
wrong, must have been the bestperson ever credit, only to find
out, look, he's human, he doeshuman stuff and he makes human
(35:28):
mistakes and he gets drunkenough to end up naked in his
tent where his sons will walk in.
I mean, that's clearly you havedrunk enough to not be there,
entirely right.
But what I've actually foundeven more interesting this read
around was that the first soncomes in and sees it, which
(35:50):
first of all, it's disrespectful.
It's like, you know, it'sreally anti the culture, like
it's just not a good thing forhim to do, and he walks out and
basically tells his brothers,which is again even more
disrespectful.
Now he's probably making fun ofhis father or he's, or he's not
telling his, he's telling hisbrothers about the sin that his
(36:10):
father has created, which again,it's just like it's kind of
gossipy, right.
It's kind of like it's like hey, look, he did this bad thing.
And then the other brotherscome in, they face backwards,
they bring the robe and theycover him up right and Noah ends
up basically cursing it's Shem,right, shem is the one who it's
Ham, ham, ham yeah.
Ham's the bad one, right?
(36:30):
So Noah basically curses Hamand blesses Shem.
And I forgot his name, theother brother, japheth.
I thought you were going to sayit was Jason.
I was like hold up there.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was Japheth right.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And so he Joking yeah , clearly, so they get blessed.
And again, one of the things Ifound interesting about this is
all of the world was destroyedbecause of sin, because of not
following God and following theright things to do the right.
You know kuth things to do thecivil things, to do the mannered
(37:05):
things, to do the good thingsto do.
That's why the world wasdestroyed.
And then you're on a boat for ayear, you get off the boat and
you're still gonna do somethings like that.
No Consequence, right.
And so the two brothers who didact with kuth, with direction,
with knowledge of what is good,what is right and what is wrong,
they get the blessing.
And again, I think this is justanother way to say like, look,
(37:27):
you can go through it all, youcan see it firsthand, but if you
don't learn your lesson from it, it's not going to pay off,
like you have to be willing todo the work after in order to
get that.
I just thought that was reallyreally, really interesting.
That that's the very firststory right after the boat we're
looking at.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
This is Genesis 9-1.
This is where this curse comesin.
And what's even more astoundingis Noah actually doesn't curse
Ham.
He curses Ham's son, canaan.
Right right, rightaan, right,right, right, right, right.
And now you're going.
You know, listen, if you wantto talk about embarrassment and
you said, hey, you know, noahwas embarrassed and and really
(38:05):
went over the edge and andcursed his.
Why would he curse his son?
And this is a question I get alot is, if he was mad at ham,
why in the world would he havecursed his son?
And I actually have a theory onthis, and I don't know if you
guys have heard any theories orif you're curious about mine.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I'm curious about yours because my question was
kind of similar to where youwere going with it, jason, but
more along the line of why inthis order that he's like.
I almost feel like maybe thisis a little bit outside of this
conversation, but I almost feellike it was maybe an
afterthought within the author,knowing the history of what
things happened, because it justseems so prophetic.
(38:44):
It really is.
It's really prophetic.
It's like curse be Canaan.
And Shem is going to overtakeCanaan, pretty much, and the
descendants of all of that it'snot just them and their
immediate pretty much, and thedescendants of all of that,
right, it's not just them andtheir immediate family, but the
future of this descendants.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Okay, Well here comes my theory.
You ready for this?
There is no way Noah could havecursed Ham because God already
blessed them.
God said said when they got offI'm blessing Noah and your sons
.
Specifically says that in theBible I'm blessing Noah and your
sons.
How in the world is Noah goingto take away God's blessing?
(39:26):
So the next person he had to goto was his son, because that
one was not blessed, so he hadto curse what wasn't blessed by
God.
Interesting, that's clever.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Got to say that that's clever.
It's a clever conception, butit's also if that's really
Noah's intent, that's also veryclever of Noah.
He's like well, you've got theprotection of aura around you,
but I'm going to go to the nextone.
That's pretty clever.
I hadn't thought of that.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's just one of those thoughts of going why,
yeah, it's just one of thosethoughts of going.
Why in the world would Noah?
Because you can't think thatNoah all of a sudden is a cruel
person.
We all admitted him drinking.
You know, shoot, I would havebeen.
You know I'd have sampled alittle bit of the Manischewitz
myself, but you know this is notsomebody who dislikes his
family.
He was embarrassed, but I thinkthat he also realized that he
(40:14):
had to punish, just like God didas a father.
There's punishment involved.
I can't punish what God hasblessed, so I'll punish the next
thing.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, I also think that.
Look, genesis is a reallycomplex book.
It is not just a literal book,but it's also an.
I mean, many people think it'salso an ideological book.
Right, like there is, there wasa historical event, but it's
also there to tell you a lotabout why things are the way
they were.
And Genesis was written abajillion years ago and later
you would find out about Canaanand you would find out about,
(40:46):
you know, the descendants ofthese people and those people
and how the politics betweenthem work, how the tribalism
behind them work, who becomesthe Egyptians and who becomes
the?
You know the Cush.
The Cush came from Japheth, Ithink, right.
And so you find out that thosepeople came from here and the
followers are sorry, the sons ofShem are the Israelites and the
(41:07):
Mediterranean people and theCanaanites.
Anyway, like all of this stuff,it's not just literal.
Even if it is literal, it's notjust literal.
It's also a world history ofwhy the Canaanites are the way
they are, why do they believethe things they do, why are the
Egyptians the way they are?
Why are the Ethiopians the waythey are and acting the way they
are, and why is this the, notthe academy?
(41:29):
Why is this the dynamic betweenthem?
And it goes back and tells thatstory.
So again, just super, super,super interesting.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, listen.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, this is by far.
This is up there.
You know, with it's right upthere, the Exodus is one of my
favorites, this one is one of myfavorites.
I'm so glad we had a chance toreally kind of go over this.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Before we end, though , there's actually something I
think we kind of glossed overthat I'd love to talk about a
little bit more.
You talked about getting offthe boat, and I think this is a
really beautiful way to end.
You talked about getting offthe boat, and there were the
sacrifices, there was the altar,there was the thankfulness
right, but it wasn't just Noahwho made a promise at that point
and a thankfulness right, itwas God.
(42:11):
God made a promise too.
God made a promise in thatmoment that he would no longer
destroy the world with water.
He made the promise that hewould no longer.
You know, he would no longer dothat.
But, more importantly, you know, we talk about the rainbow.
You mentioned the rainbowearlier.
I think I read one time, orheard one time, that it doesn't
actually say rainbow, it saysbow in Hebrew.
Right, it actually says bow inHebrew, and one of the meanings
(42:37):
of that, probably among many,many, is that the bow, in that
time, would have also been anarrow.
You know bow and arrow, andthat rainbow, that bow, is
always facing heaven, not earth.
So God is taking responsibility.
God is taking responsibility,just like he does in other
covenants, saying if somethinggoes wrong, I take the
responsibility.
I'm the one who's putting itout here and I'm taking the
responsibility.
God is taking responsibility,just like he does in other
(42:57):
covenants, saying if somethinggoes wrong, I take the
responsibility, I'm the onewho's putting it out here and
I'm taking the responsibility.
So the bow is pointed towardsme.
So the rainbow is also the signof responsibility of God to
take care of us.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
I think that is a great way toend.
I mean, what more beautifulimagery than God being
responsible for taking care ofhis people?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, and this wasn't something that I read.
Actually, funny enough, thevery first time I heard that
story was actually in a kid'sbook.
It was a kid's biblical telling, and you start to learn that
that's one of those things.
But I continue to look at thatbow image, and not only is it
the arrow pointed at God and notat us, because God takes the
ultimate responsibility, butit's also when you look at a bow
(43:38):
or a dome like that.
That's a form of protection.
You are under the bow, you areboth behind the person shooting,
but you're also underneath theshelter of that bow and again.
So now, every time I see arainbow, I kind of think of that
and I think that that's whatthis is all about.
God is my protector, god is theultimate protector, and if I
(43:58):
want to, if I want thatprotection, I need to stand
behind him.
I need to not try to stand infront of him, or else I'm going
to get hit with that arrow,right.
I need to be under theprotection of God by being
behind him and behind his drawnbow.
So I don't know, I just wantedto share that as well.
Yeah, and his drawn bow.
So I don't know, I just wantedto share that as well.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, and the covenant was to all people.
It was never to the chosenpeople, this was all people.
This is just an absolutebeautiful way to end it.
I appreciate that, jason.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Cool.
So, guys, this has been awesome.
This is one of my favoritestories as well.
All of Genesis is my favoritestories, but this one
particularly has just more andmore and more layers.
So, for everybody listening, weappreciate you, as always.
We hope that you can give ussome likes, some comments, some
shares.
(44:43):
We would appreciate somesubscribes.
Now that we're on YouTube, we'dlove to see the, we'd love to
see those numbers grow so morepeople can find out.
But we appreciate yourquestions and comments.
Actually, we're getting morequestions and comments from you
guys now, so I think we'reprobably going to start doing
some episodes with where weaddress them directly.
So we're looking forward tothat as well.
But again, always appreciateyour time and looking forward to
talking to you soon.
Thanks again, bye-bye, byeLater, guys.
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