September 17, 2025 • 43 mins
Have you ever run from something you knew God was calling you to do? The story of Jonah resonates with anyone who's ever resisted divine direction, especially when that direction leads toward people we'd rather not help.
Our conversation explores how this ancient narrative goes far deeper than the children's story most of us learned. Jonah wasn't just running from God – he was running from God's mercy toward people he deemed unworthy. The brutal Assyrian capital of Nineveh, known as "the city of blood," represented everything the Israelites feared and despised. Yet God's compassion extended even there, much to Jonah's dismay.
We unpack fascinating symbolic elements often missed in casual readings. The "great fish" (not specifically a whale) carries profound significance when connected to Nineveh's fish-god Dagon who supposedly devoured doves – with Jonah's name literally meaning "dove" in Hebrew. No wonder the reluctant prophet's arrival captured immediate attention! His grudging five-word sermon sparked perhaps history's most successful mass repentance, proving God's purposes advance even through our half-hearted obedience.
The story's ending, where God uses a plant and worm to teach Jonah about misplaced priorities, serves as a powerful mirror for examining our own prejudices about who "deserves" grace. We reflect on personal experiences of resistance to divine calling and how silence – both Jonah's time in darkness and God's concluding quietness – creates space for profound spiritual transformation.
Whether you're currently feeling swallowed by circumstances, running from responsibility, or struggling with extending grace to difficult people, this episode offers fresh perspective on God's relentless pursuit of both the lost and the reluctant messengers He calls to reach them. Listen, reflect, and consider where your own Jonah story might be unfolding right now.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Hey guys, excited to be withyou today.
I'm actually going to start offa little bit different than
we've done before.
I'm going to ask you guys aquick question, not one of my
famous quick questions.
A quick question about ourstudy today.
When you think of Jonah, do yousee it more of a story running
(00:26):
from God or a story about God'srelentless mercy?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh, that's good Before I copy.
I see it as God's relentless,or pretty much God's grace.
I don't think it's running awayfrom God.
He's running away from God'smission and what God wants him
to do, I feel like, but notrunning away from God.
(00:52):
He's always present with God,he's always talking to God.
Jonah, that is the character.
So, yeah, I just think it'sGod's relentlessness, if that's
a word.
But yeah, I just see God justcarving out the way of turning
bad to good, like he always does.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I see it as all of the above.
This is one of the mostfascinating stories to me.
I think it's a story of runningaway from your mission.
It's a story of trying to runaway from god, uh, which is
absurd.
The inability to run away fromgod, uh, and the almost
inevitability of god's willbeing done whether you like it
or not if you guys can see mynotes, you would see right now
(01:36):
that I actually called out bothof those.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I knew you guys were going to answer that exact way.
Um, I, I did, and although Iagree that I believe it's both,
it's obviously a story aboutboth.
I also do see it as thisrelentless mercy from God and
I'm definitely excited to jumpinto this story with you guys.
We're going to set the stagereally, really quickly for this
(01:59):
story.
This is a story of a prophet,jonah, who was told by God to go
to Nineveh, and Jonah does notwant to go, and I'm giving the
very quick overview.
Obviously we're going to divein a lot deeper, but he doesn't
want to.
He actually tries to go as faraway as humanly possible.
The opposite direction Godstops him, brings him to Nineveh
(02:23):
, he gives the world's worstsermon and then he learns a
lesson at the very end.
So with that in mind, let'sjump into the first part, which
is what is Nineveh?
Can either of you guys tell me,kind of, what Nineveh looks
like, what it is?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
To my understanding, nineveh is the Assyrian capital.
It's enormous, it's almost anempire in and of itself and, as
we'll find later, it's kind ofSodom and Gomorrah, part two.
God's you know will, or underhis law, and he's frustrated
(03:11):
with them and he's about to getrid of them, which is why he
wants to send Jonah to go havethem repent, so he doesn't have
to.
But yeah, so Nineveh is a hugecity, it's an empire in itself.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I read that it was built by Nimrod.
Nimrod, I think we did a quickbrief name, that's right.
I forgot which episode was it.
I think Babel, right, orsomething.
Yep, yeah, I think so.
Where Nimrod is this big guy,this big, just kind of strong
kind of guy?
And yeah, I've read that hebuilt this.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Nineveh, yep.
So the Assyrian Empire isdefinitely known for their
brutality, their violence,injustice, child sacrifice.
This was a city of blood is oneof the nicknames it had.
It was a crown jewel of theAssyrian Empire and this is
where God wanted Jonah to go,and he said I want you to go.
(04:05):
And he didn't really give a lotof details to it, but Jonah
knew.
Jonah knew hey, I want to go.
God wants me to go therebecause he's looking for me to
help these people and and tohelp them be forgiven and be
right in God's eyes, and this issomething that Jonah was very
much against is something thatJonah was very much against.
(04:26):
So, just for the purposes ofknowing where things are, god
called him to go to Nineveh,which is right around the Tigris
River.
It's where Iraq would be today,and what he tried to do is go
to Tarshish, which would havebeen around where Spain is.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So this is-.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Opposite yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And at this point this is pretty much the furthest
that you could have gone in theknown world where he was.
He was saying hey, I'm not justgoing far away, I'm going as
far away as I humanly can.
Yeah, and he jumped on a boatand and did just that and
started his way as far away aspossible and it was like a
random boat at a port.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
what I read and it's funny because obviously he was
Hebrew and he jumped on thisboat.
I mean I don't know how commonit was for him to be on a boat
with other different nations ordifferent people that believe in
different things.
I mean they showed that theseguys believed in different gods,
so for them to spend this timetogether.
So I'm not sure there'sanything there.
(05:29):
David, within how much he justdespised this mention, this
mission, and how much he doesn'twant to do this work for God.
It's so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
But I think what you're saying is like is there
any thing to note in the factthat he was willing to get on a
boat full of heathens to crossthe, to cross the known ocean,
to get?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
away from, or gentiles right, I want to say he
, but yeah, no, there wasn'tthey don't.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
They don't, uh, give specifics as to what gods, uh,
these sailors were praying towhen the storm came.
Um, so we're not sure if it wasan enemy a known enemy of
Israel.
If it was not, so, there wasnothing there per se.
There could have been I'm surethere's research on it, but
there was nothing glaring,except for the fact that you're
(06:16):
right.
When this storm came, thesesailors were praying to their
own gods, trying to figure outwhat is on the ship that is
causing them to be upset.
And again you start looking atthis wonderful piece of evidence
of what religions were backthen and also why God was wholly
set apart, because these othergods there were multiple of them
(06:37):
, these had control over theocean and they were upset at
some reason.
And these were people trying tocontrol their own fate by
pleasing a god who was causingthis storm.
Uh, meanwhile it was yahweh, uh, and jonah was asleep, but as
soon as he woke up, he knew hesaid this is, this is for me,
(06:58):
and he went to jump overboard.
He's like, hey, I'll jumpoverboard.
Which, if you have people whotraveled back then by water,
they were not afraid of stormslike this, so if they saw him
jumping off, they would havethought what are you crazy stay
on a boat.
This is what we go through.
(07:19):
We go through storms.
This is a really bad one wherenow we're nervous right and
jonah's going no, I'm just gonnajump right in.
Uh, which they knew was deathand they didn't want.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They didn't want him to do that.
I mean, they prayed againsttheir, they prayed before.
But he asked him to jump tothrow them.
Throw them in, throw him in,right.
Jonah asked hey, throw me in.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It's, it's my god, you know, and you guys would be
good and they wouldn't right andthey like.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to throw you in.
Okay, maybe he was likeresistant, like Jonah is, or
just maybe stubborn, and theywere like, all right, let me
just pray, let me pray before Ithrow you out there, because I
don't want anything coming backto me that I just killed a man
and you know, let him drown orwhatever it is, and let him
drown or whatever it is, and Ithink that just shows what Jonah
(08:06):
was so afraid of this missionor didn't believe in this
mission that God was sending him, that he went on this boat with
some random Gentiles gettingaway from God, going to Tarshish
, away from the mission that hewants to go towards.
It's like the opposite end.
And for him to go, you knowwhat, just throw me over.
I'd rather just die than dothis.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And what happens is he almost drowns, he is thrown
in and almost drowns, and thensomething grabs him and swallows
him and and I'm going to bringthat to you, jason, because you
mentioned, uh before that a lotof people think it's one thing,
but it actually is not yeah, Imean, you know, we always hear,
hear Jonah and the whale, right,but yet it doesn't say whale In
Hebrew, it says big fish, youknow.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So not a life-altering thing to learn,
but I mean it's just interesting.
I think it is interesting torecognize when we've been
culturized over a word versus,you know, when that's not what
it ever said.
So sometimes you have to checkthe origin source and remember
what you're really reading.
But yeah, it's not a, it's abig fish, it's a big fish and,
(09:10):
and to my knowledge, even at thetime there wasn't or to what I
read, I think there there wasn'teven a fish capable of being
that large to swallow a man.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
To their not to their knowledge at the time is that
true, it is true, and it's alsotrue that that I think words do
matter.
Uh, jewish people at the timereading this story would have
read great fish.
They would not have read whale,they wouldn't even have thought
whale.
So you're right, the culturehas definitely shifted that
narrative.
They would have heard fish andthat would have made it even
more amazing for them to hearthat a great fish that should
(09:40):
not have been there, that wasnot capable of swallowing a man
swallow them up, because Becausewe look at a whale and we go,
oh, of course we've seen, youknow National Geographic, and a
whale will come and swallowJonah and no big deal.
But then it meant a lot moreand I agree with you, jason, I
think the words do matter.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And I would even go so far.
Look, the fish becomes evenmore important because, David,
you're the one who enlightenedme the first time as to what the
fish meant to these people ofNineveh.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, so, and we will get further into that, but you
just because you touched on it.
So there was a God in Ninevehcalled Dagon, and Dagon was a
fish man that devoured doves.
They fed doves to their god,dagon.
And if you look at Jonah's name, his name literally means dove
(10:31):
in Hebrew.
So you have a dove being spitout by a great fish.
To the people who believe in aman who devours doves, it's just
a fishman.
So this is the people ofNineveh.
I mean, mean, god knows whathe's doing.
Uh, he knew he was sending andthese people would have looked
at jonah, uh, with a certainamount of of reverence.
(10:54):
Again, they believed inmultiple gods, they did worship
multiple gods.
They would have looked at himand said this might be dagon
right here.
This might be the, the fish manwho is eating doves.
So, yes, um, but but before hegets spit out, it's this really
interesting thing I want totouch on um, he is inside the
belly of the whale, or the greatfish for three days.
(11:15):
See, I did it right there it's.
It's so ingrained, yeah, it'sso ingrained, um, but he is
inside of the great fish forthree days and he, he kind of
reminds us of Psalms a littlebit when he starts to lament and
talk about the fact that healmost died and what that felt
like and then giving thanks toGod.
Again, we were talking aboutGod's relentless mercy, god's
(11:37):
mercy for saving him, um, but,but even more importantly, um,
there is a comparison of Sheolwith the uh, with the Exodus,
the time of the Exodus.
So when Exodus, the last plague, happens, when it's darkness,
not not the very last one, thethe finger of God, but right
before that there's darkness andit's not a really scary.
(11:59):
You have all these horriblethings happening All of a sudden
.
There's darkness.
But it says darkness, you canfeel it's a little bit different
.
A lot of scholars think thatthis was Sheol, that God brought
Sheol down for people toexperience.
And Jonah talks about him beingin Sheol right now and he's in
the fish in darkness.
It's something that he can feeland he's comparing this with
(12:21):
almost seeing what it's like tobe dead.
Hey, I'm throwing myself over,I'd rather be dead and God in
his brilliance goes okay, here'swhat it's like, and it's really
powerful.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who have gone through
similar experiences who havethey're at the end of the rope,
they feel like it'd be better ifI wasn't even here, and then
(12:42):
they have an experience and go.
You know what?
I was wrong and thank you Godfor showing me that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean, look, we've.
We've been talking a lot aboutthe story, but I mean the
symbolism here is I mean I thinkyou guys knew I was going here.
I mean this whole story isintensely symbolic to me.
I mean, let's, let's just cover.
(13:12):
We won't even cover the rest ofit, let's cover from this point
in past.
He is.
First of all, you have to knowthat he loves the Lord and
trusts the Lord, because whenthe Lord gives him a mission to
save his enemies, he goes nope,other way.
Like you know, he is given.
He runs the other way, notbecause he doesn't want the
mission, because God gave it tohim, because he doesn't like
these people.
Yes, he doesn't believe thatthese people deserve forgiveness
.
He doesn't believe in that.
And he goes the other directionnot because he's running from
(13:35):
God, because he's running fromhis mission.
Right, and I think that's areally big thing.
It's like I think we all know,when God has told us to do
something we don't want to doand we don't go, yeah sure,
let's do that we go the otherdirection.
Often, in fact, we move inopposition to God because we
want to have control, because wewant to believe that we're the
(13:55):
ones who are in control.
And then God takes him off theboat and puts him in the fish
and he's in Sheol, he's in hell,he is in darkness, he is
claustrophobic, he is.
You know what is the thing?
Sometimes you see heaven mostclearly in dark places, and I
(14:19):
think that this thing could bean analogy or a metaphor for any
dark place you've been in yourlife, whether it be, you know,
an action that you're taking youdon't want to take, whether
it's being a way that you don'twant to be, whether it's a
relationship that isn't goingthe way you want it to.
There's a dark place, right, andthis is significant and,
(14:39):
interestingly enough, when Iread through it this week,
chapter two hit me verydifferently this time, when I
was really thinking about itthat way.
It's a beautiful.
They call it a prayer, but Ithink it's a poem.
I think it's a poem.
I mean, I was reading it thistime and I was like, just put
yourself in one of your darktimes in life and read that poem
and you realize, I don't know.
(15:01):
You see yourself in it, you seethat like you have taken me to
the bottom of the ocean, youhave put me behind the bars and
yet you have also.
You've also let me come backand let me be free, and I thank
you for this and I glorify youfor this.
I don't know, it's a beautifulthing.
So anyway, sorry I went on atangent there, but I mean
that's-.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I was gonna mention what I read about it being maybe
more of a symbolism, stuff likethat, and you could see that.
You could really see that inchapter 2 and just kind of
reading the poetry, the prayer,you could see that in like the
big fish, you know even that,like the mysteriousness of that
or how things played out Israelwas.
(15:52):
So this is going a little bitahead, but more of the arching
story that Israel has a favoriterelationship with God and his
unwillingness to share theLord's compassion with other
nations.
So we could see that Jonah youknow it's Jonah is the vessel
like Israel that doesn't want toshare the goodness of God with
other nations, where maybethat's what's going on at the
time and we see that throughoutthe Bible.
It's one story of how God'slove, mercy and grace is for all
(16:14):
, but he's doing it throughIsrael.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, jason, just to go back to your analogy of the
poem, know what's really?
What's incredible for me is heis not in a safe place.
I mean, obviously it's saferthan him being in the water in a
storm.
Uh, but he's not in a safeplace and he's giving this
wonderful prayer and poem to godand then thanking him before he
(16:40):
was spit out.
This is I'm in this dark placeand I'm still giving you the
praise.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And it's the reason he got out.
This is the important thing.
As soon as he finishes hisprayer, then the whale spits him
out, so he didn't pray after hegot spit out.
He prayed when and again.
This is the significance ofthis story.
Right, like we I always say likewe all know what it's like to
be in a dark place, and maybeI'm wrong about that, but I
think many people do I thinkmany people know what it's like
(17:16):
to be in a low, low part of yourlife and a part where you have
lost control, where you realizethat your ability to control the
situation is limited, if notcompletely null.
And in that moment you caneither give up and stay in the
belly of the whale or you canpray and you can see that
(17:37):
there's something bigger thanyou out there.
You can remember that this is atemporary condition and with
prayer and thankfulness andgiving your, by the way, the end
of the prayer is I give gloryto you.
I hope that my next moves giveglory to you, Something along
those lines.
That's a paraphrase, and that'swhen God says okay, you get it,
you're out, and this is what wehave to do too.
(17:59):
It's like when you're in thedeepest parts of those wells.
You have to praise God and sayI see that I was wrong, I see
that you're right, I'm going tofollow you and I'm going to do
it with the right intentions.
And then, amazingly, the fishspits you out.
It's just the way it works,right.
It's one of the most humanthings to experience.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And amazingly good hobby.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No, jonah has a lot there.
I think this book has fourchapters and it's an easy read,
but there's a lot of depth thereand a lot of things that you're
bringing out, jason, but alsothere's a lot of other things.
You know symbolism, you know.
To me there's a lot of likeJesus in this story too A
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But yeah, yep, going further, jason.
You know it's not only darktimes he's going through.
It is a lesson of beforehand.
He was, he felt like he was inthe light.
He didn't want to share thatwith somebody else.
So he was saying, hey, I'm good, they're not again comparison,
comparing sin.
He goes into a dark place andthen realizes, hey, I'm not as
(18:59):
holy and great as I thought,right.
And then he's going you knowwhat I'm going to submit to
God's plan and then get spit outas well.
So it's this also beautifulthought of.
We do it all the time, thinking, well, my sin's not as bad as
that one.
And then all of a sudden yourealize and go no, it's all sin
(19:19):
is sin and it's all bad.
So I just have to follow God.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I love that you brought that up.
I love that you brought that upbecause that's not something
that crossed my mind previously.
But you're 100% right.
He was so busy thinking himselfperfect and deserving and so I
don't want to give it to thembecause they don't deserve it.
Well, god's asking you to dosomething, he goes no, I'm not
doing that.
Like.
Both are sins, both are sins,all sin is equal.
So Both are sins.
Both are sins, all sin is equal.
(19:43):
So you've just committed thesin of A pride, b thinking
you're better than somebody else, and C not being obedient while
you're condemning this, otherpeople who are doing.
Obviously, the sins aredifferent, but it's a reminder
that sin is sin.
It's a reminder that sindoesn't necessarily, at least by
(20:08):
God's standards sin doesn'thave levels, there's just sin
and not sin.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I had not even considered that and he does
something that's also very human.
Right after, which I love is,even after sometimes we admit
that sin is sin, we still arelike almost like little children
, going fine, fine, you're right, I'm going to go and do what
you want.
And then he goes and gives theworst sermon ever.
He says five words and that'sit.
It's not like, hey, I'm, Iunderstand what you're saying
and I'm going to go there, I'mgoing to do the best I can.
(20:31):
He goes.
No, I understand what you'resaying.
I'm going to do the bareminimum because I'm, I'm he
pouted?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
through the whole thing.
I'm pouting, he pouted throughthe whole thing.
Well, god's going to kill you40 days, you're going to die and
they're all going.
Guys, everybody, stop whatyou're doing, put on sackcloths,
fast Pray, yeah.
So I mean it was the mosteffective five words, maybe in
Assyrian history.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And it's interesting because the five words to get
the exact translation, I'm goingto read it.
Yet, 40 days and Nineveh shallbe overturned.
And when you look at it, it'salso God's beautiful way of
wording, because overturnedcould mean destroyed, which is
what Jonah would have said hey,you're gonna get killed, and
he's probably a little smugabout it.
(21:15):
But it also could meantransformed, which is God's
version of it 40 days or you'regonna be.
And it's in God's fashion.
Beautifully, they transformedthe entire nation of Nineveh,
transformed.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And I think that shows God's consistent character
In Jeremiah 18, 7 to 10, itgoes if at any time, I announce
that a nation or kingdom is tobe uprooted, tore down or
destroyed, and if that nation, Iwarn, repents of its evil, then
I will relent and not inflicton it disaster that I had
(21:51):
planned.
So God is consistent.
So he wanted them to repent.
There was obviously some Sodomand Gomorrah stuff going on over
there and he's like hey, I'mgoing to give you, just like I
did them, time to repent.
I'm going to send my prophet toyou, jonah, to tell you to
repent and you must do so, ifnot I'm going to destroy you 40
(22:11):
days, I guess.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I think that this is one
of those stories too and I'mglad you brought up that,
jeremiah, because I've beenthinking a lot lately, just
separately from this, but it wasreally tied together with this
is that God's nature doesn'tchange, but God can change his
mind based on your actions.
(22:36):
Right, and so it'sconditionality is what I've been
like really kind of likeprocessing lately.
It's like, you know, I grew upin a church where God is
sovereign and you know God'swill is going to be done, which
means everything that happens onearth is already predestined.
You have no choice in thematter, so forth and so on.
But the Bible has a very clearway of saying look, if these
guys hadn't, if they hadn'tchanged, now that's not to say
(23:00):
sovereignty I'm not going to getinto a sovereignty conversation
because I know there's deepdetails in there but this is a
clear condition that had theynot repented, they were getting
destroyed.
I mean, they ultimately chose torepent and they were not
destroyed, but they had.
They also had the choice don'trepent and be destroyed or
overturned.
However, that is right.
But so I and I and I thinkthat's really interesting in in
(23:23):
this as well is looking at ourhuman responsibility in our own
destinies.
Obviously you have to followGod's will to find that best
destiny.
But God has a plan for you, butthat plan changes if you don't
follow your part of the plan.
Yeah, and I found that to be aninteresting part of the story
as well.
I don't know what you guysthink about that no-transcript.
I don't know what you guys thinkabout that?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No, it goes along with your thinking.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It reminds me back of just Moses and the—we always go
back to Moses the Israelites inthe desert.
Right, I think God has a limit.
He's really slow and patient.
He takes his time.
He sends birds.
Messages, messengers,counselors message everything to
(24:07):
you to repent to turn away.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Which Jonah says.
Which Jonah says literally inthis book.
He says you are slow to anger.
You are those things, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So we see that there and I think God is.
That's why I love.
I love jumping into this stuffand just speaking about God,
because you know, it's one ofthe things that I always makes
me fall to my knees and just cryout to God and just thank him
for being slow to anger with meand just letting me just
forgiving me pretty much of alot of things that I've done in
the past or continue to dosometimes.
(24:35):
But God is good.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Your theory makes sense.
I mean, you've talked about itwith prayer as well, where, with
prayer, it's as much about usand us changing as it is trying
to change God, and I think itblends with your already
theological thought of, yes, godis there, he is sovereign, he
does know, but he is alsoallowing us to be part of the
(25:01):
details.
And the part of the details isare we going to accept, are we
not going to accept?
I think it's this beautifulblend.
Most people like to think of itone way or another.
Is it free will orpredestination?
And the chance?
Probably it's a blend of both.
God does not allow one or theother.
I think he allows both, and Ithink that your theology just
matches exactly what you've saidabout other things in the past
(25:25):
as well, so it makes perfectsense.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This is just one of those stories and, Javi, I'm
sorry I got to cut you off there, but I thought it was really.
It was really fascinating point.
I mean, you know, Jonah knowsthat, Jonah knows that God is
slow to anger and that his loveis, you know, ever present and
large.
You know, and he says so inthis thing.
Which is why.
Which is why he says I don'twant to.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
He says it flat out I don't want these people to get
saved, because I know you'llsave them, yeah, even after he
did, after he did it, and thenhe, and then he went, and then
he went and pouted for a whilehe still pouted jonah.
He's like I'm gonna sit righthere and we'll watch to see what
happens to the city.
He says jonah, four or fiveyeah, four, five through 11.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Four, five, yeah.
It is Jonah literally gettingangry again.
And then God teaches himanother lesson, another lesson
that's filled with symbolism,but also just a beautiful lesson
of.
It is a hot wind blowing andthe sun is on him and God says
I'm going to build a shade foryou and this wonderful plant
(26:27):
that shades Jonah.
Um, and then God sends a wormto eat the plant and Jonah gets
so hot he almost passes out.
Um, and God asked him aquestion and he said you know
you're angry about this tree,but you weren't angry about the
a hundred thousand people thatyou were looking for me to
ignore.
Yeah, um, it's just, it's, it'sjust amazing.
(26:49):
And then there was a mic dropmoment because and we'll talk
about it but he literally doesthis, says it and then it ends.
That's it.
The whole book ends, yeah justand it's left for the reader to
go uh.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So I'm curious what you guys took from that last,
particularly that last part.
I had a lot of thoughts when Iwas reading it this time and I
was curious what you guys takefrom that.
Ending of the plant grows.
I shaded you from the plant.
I ate the plant.
I made you realize something.
Then I asked you a question,Then I stopped.
What did you guys take out ofthat?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Well, I guess maybe I read it wrong, but when I first
read it I thought about I'mtrying to remember the story,
but just God saying, remindingus that you have no control,
Like it's not up to you right,Like you didn't make this plant
grow or die, you didn't doanything about this, you had no
(27:48):
part to play in this.
I'm just asking you to do this.
Whether you think it's good orbad, just follow me and do it.
So that's what I got out of itand he showed him through that
symbolism, through the pant,going hey, you didn't make it
grow, you didn't make it wither.
What are you angry about?
You have nothing.
I'm the one that has the power.
Just kind of trust me.
That's what I'm, what I wasgetting.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
For me it's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I think he puts all of it in our court.
I think he's looking for us tolook inward at ourselves.
I mean, we talked about it.
We talked about how Jonah islooking at one sin worse than
another.
Then he's starting to admit thetruth, and then he goes and
gives the worst sermon becausehe's still throwing a little bit
of a hissy fit.
And then, you know, you go onand on and on, and then, even
after he does it, he's stillbitter.
And then he gets comfort from atree shade, and then he gets
(28:32):
mad when he gets, when it'sdevoured.
And you know, I think it leavesit up for us.
God is going here, the ball's inyour court.
What do you think?
What are you going to do next?
Are you going to learn fromthis story?
Because we can look at it andgo.
You know, god, use me as aprophet.
I read this story and say youknow what?
God, maybe you want to use thenext guy?
(28:53):
Um, this is, this is not.
You know, this is not somethingI want to sign up for, although
I would, um, but but I thinkthat this is all about us.
He's leaving it open for us toreally do exactly what we're
doing here dive in and chew onit.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I mean because, look, I blend exactly the two
things that you guys said rightinto a middle ground.
I think that God is telling youclearly it ain't your game to
play.
You don't understand it.
There are things that you areincapable of doing.
You can't make a tree grow aworm bite.
You can't do any of thosethings.
However, you have a role toplay in it, so you still.
(29:34):
It goes back to what I wastalking about a moment ago.
I mean, it goes back to thisconditionality and God's will,
free will and ultimate outcomeessentially is what that final
statement is about, which, bythe way, I think is, if you look
at it literarily, that's whatthe whole story was about from
the first time.
They were just making sure thatyou got it.
At the end the whole story wasabout.
(29:55):
The whole entire story can besummed up by that.
It's an exploration of God'swill, man's free will and the
interplay of those two increating ultimate outcomes that
are still part of God's plan,love it and so, and that's the
whole.
That's literally the wholestory.
So I find that, I find thatreally, I found that last line
(30:17):
exceptionally interesting.
This or that last, you know fewlines.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It's exceptionally interesting this time around To
go back and kind of like circleback a little bit.
Going back, I feel like there'sa lot of symbolism with Jesus
and I mentioned that before toDavid and, just like kind of
combining what you're sayingright now, jason, it's Jesus
came for us to forgive us prettymuch, and we see that we see a
(30:43):
similarity with Jesus and Jonah,right, right, he was in the
whale for three days and threenights.
Um matthew 12 40 talks aboutjesus going into the.
Just like jonah, he went intothe belly of the huge fish and
the son of man will be there forthree days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Right, and he came out of that.
And then in Luke 24, 46, ittalks about the Messiah will
(31:07):
suffer in the third day andrepentance and for the
forgiveness of the sins will bepreached in his name to all the
nations.
That's what Jonah did.
He was in the belly for threedays, came out in three days to
go make this nation go repentand then they will be forgiven
and they will not be destroyed.
I think it's just a continuouspattern To a bunch of people who
(31:28):
didn't deserve it.
It's a pattern that we alwaystalk about.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, well, to a bunch of people who didn't
deserve it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, didn't deserve it.
And that's the and speaking ofpattern, I mean just for the
history of Nineveh.
They ended up going back ontheir ways later on and was
destroyed regardless.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, they were destroyed anyway, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yet another pattern.
But look, the thing is, theywere destroyed later, but after
they had done what they neededto do in God's larger plan,
which was because later theydestroyed Jerusalem or Judah I
think it was Judah.
They destroyed one of those twocities as a payment for Israel
(32:03):
not being faithful again.
So they acted as an instrumentof God later and then, after
they had done their duty, godwas like all right, now you're
gone because you continue to notrepent.
But the other thing to say too,I mean I love, look, I think
you're right, javi.
I think there's a lot ofconnection there between the
Jesus story and Jonah, and Ithink it was such a great setup
(32:26):
for that, and that's what theseprophets do, right.
The prophets are so good atsetting up Jesus so that when
Jesus would come, you couldpoint back to the Old Testament
and go it was there already.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I'm not doing anything different.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And so you get that.
That's what it is right?
It wasn't supposed to be asurprise for you.
That's what God's saying.
I'm not doing anythingdifferent.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
The Israel, you know, the Israel nation.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It wasn't supposed to be a surprise.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, it wasn't a surprise for you.
It was there all along andsupposed to be the Messiah, is
here, he's with you.
I've done this and I think hehas a lot of symbolism talking
about Moses and Noah, just kindof reminding them like, hey,
this is not a situation, itshouldn't be a shock to you.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right and we know that God's consistent right.
We did a whole episode on God'sconsistency.
God is consistent and whenJesus comes and Jesus is doing
the same things that have beenmimicked previously, it's just
another way of saying look at,my fingerprints have been here
the whole time.
The fact that it's expressedthrough a different person, the
fact that it's expressed in adifferent arena even doesn't
(33:30):
make it any different.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
And yeah man, I hadn't thought about that either
.
I really hope that.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I have a really good question.
I don't know if you haveanything else, david, but I have
one more uh, but that was justabout the the, the last, the mic
drop moment at the end.
Oh yeah, I wanted to ask um.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Well, let me drop you guys.
Have you guys ever uh, everbeen or acted like jonah, where
god has called you for a missionto do something and you kind of
went, nah, I, I'm good, dad,I'm gonna go over here, kind of
thing, and maybe you did?
I'm really glad you asked thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I'm really glad you asked that question.
I hadn't found a way to kind oflike fold this in yet.
But look, I think this againgoing back to that story of
metaphor and what this can teachpeople how can we practically
place this in our lives?
Look, I think we all havesomething to say, and oftentimes
(34:25):
it's about God, or I mean itcould be about anything right.
Or we have a calling from Godgo do this thing, go follow this
path, go do the right thing.
There's so many things we arecalled to do.
We are called to say we have aninspiration to give to the
world and do for the world, andwe don't.
(34:52):
And the consequence of notdoing that is darkness.
The consequence of not speakingyour truth or following God's
path, or following the path thathas been set inside you is
darkness.
It is.
It's like I'm trying to findthe words for it but it's like
having your hands tied behindyour back and you feel stifled.
That's the word, right.
You feel stifled.
What would it feel like beingin a big fish?
You'd be stifled, right.
(35:12):
So I mean, I think, even from ahuman level, this story is a
reminder that if you are calledto do something, if you feel
strongly inspired to dosomething, do it.
You don't have to trust in yourown ability.
You don't have to trust thatit's the right thing to do.
We've seen this in person afterperson in the Old Testament
that they're not ready, theydon't think they can do it.
(35:34):
And yet the consequence of notdoing the thing you don't think
you can do is way worse than theconsequence of doing the thing
that you want.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
If it means for good too, I think you can discern
that right you have to you knowyou have to discern those things
of how to approach that.
And I think, when you see youfeel like God calling me to do
that or not, test it.
Is it good?
Is it good for somebody else toknow about God?
Is it good for them for you to,like, I don't know, give them
money Because you have thatextra 20 bucks that you just
(36:03):
found?
It's stuff like that.
Like yeah, that is good, it'snot going to hurt them, type of
thing.
It's a way to discern and asecondary point.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Sorry guys and Javi, that's a great point too.
Sometimes the thing that youwant to do might not be good for
you.
This wasn't good for Noah.
Noah didn't go in here, or Noah, jonah didn't go in here, all
the O's and A's and N's.
Jonah didn't go in there andget something out of it.
Remember that, guys.
Jonah did a great job.
Jonah saved 120,000 people,right?
(36:34):
He literally saved them andgenerations after them, and yet
he got nothing out of it.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
He didn't get that.
He didn't.
He got shade.
No, actually he got a plant putover.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
He got shade for a minute.
He got for a minute he gotshade and then the shade got
taken down because he hadn'tearned it.
Like so this is another point.
Like, not always is the thingthat you being called to do for
you, but you got to do it anyway, man.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'll tell you that if I compare myself to Jonah and
I'll actually link it with my,my thought that I was holding
onto uh, when I look at Jonahand I look at the entire story,
I see myself a lot in it.
I see myself comparing, I seemyself then getting to a point
of going okay, you're right, Ineed to do this better.
So I'm going to pray and I'mgoing to give thanksgiving and
(37:20):
I'm going to follow your lead,lord, and I'm going to do what I
feel like you're calling me todo.
But when it all comes down toit, I think the part that links
me the most is the whole time.
I am trying to do all thethings myself.
I am trying to discern God'svoice, I am trying to do the
thing and at the very endthere's the mic drop, moment of
(37:40):
silence.
And I'm going.
That's where it's at.
I need to just be silent withGod.
And God is forcing that silence.
He's not saying, hey, let'srespond afterwards, he's
literally just stopping andyou're left there in silence,
thinking about what justhappened, reflecting back on
what choices you might've made.
(38:02):
I think that this is a brilliantpart of just the reflection
piece is something that I thinkpeople, even when they reflect
back, they're doing it actively.
They're in the process of doingsomething else.
They're driving, they'retalking, they're trying to
figure it out.
They're doing it actively.
They're in the process of doingsomething else.
They're driving, they'retalking, they're they're trying
to figure it out.
They're doing the pros and cons.
To just be silent and still issomething that we see in jonah
(38:26):
over and over again.
He is silent for three days insheol and and it never he keeps
coming out and grumbling.
It's then the silence from God.
Then I'm going wow, all right,now I better listen up, and I
think that that is thecomparison that I would make
with my life in.
Jonah is just that moment ofsilence at the end, and the
(38:48):
reason why it hits me so hard isthat's me and I know there are
times I just need to be silentand I'm not.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think, you made me think about when you and you
need a very big fish.
It would take a very big fishto swallow you up for three days
.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
You made me think of- .
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Javi, what's your answer to that?
What's your answer to your ownquestion?
I mean, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I totally forgot what it was.
Oh, about the.
Have you ever done, jonah?
I think I do it all the time.
I think I do it all the time.
I think God is speaking to meall the time.
He's telling me that, from bigthings to small things, right
From taking leaps and droppingsomething that maybe you worked
hard on, or dropping somethingthat you've been, you know,
doing for a while right and notmoving forward and taking the
risk.
To be honest, I thought takinga risk for this podcast was a
big risk for me.
I thought it was something thatI was really scared to do.
(39:41):
I didn't know how I fit in andI thought this was a great thing
for somebody else.
And it's been a blessing for meto step forward, and I think
this year for me is steppingforward in what God is calling
me.
I see the blessing.
I see that 120,000 Ninevitescould be saved and that's
amazing.
I see that within my life andGod is working every single day
(40:04):
for all of us and if we open upour eyes to try to help out
others and see what's happeningsurrounding us, that we're able
to bless others even with thelittle that we have.
And I see that there, in thisstory at least, jonah.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, and we don't have to.
I mean, this is the thing I'mgoing to take away from you with
.
This is like we don't have tosee the benefit.
We don't have to agree with thebenefit, we just need to be
faithful.
We need to be obedient and ifwe're being called to speak in
his name or to speak goodnessinto something and speak
godliness into something, weshould just do it Like it's
(40:39):
not—we don't have to—we, as allof us Christians, don't have to
understand the plan.
We don't have to agree with theplan.
We don't have to know the plan.
We don't have to know what'sgoing on, but we do have to
trust that there's a plantgrowing and a worm eating and
it's just our job to be obedient.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You made me think.
Before David, you said silence,and it made me think we could
only hear God if we're silent.
Right, we could only hear eachother.
If I'm silent, If I'm talking,as when you're talking, or I'm
thinking, or distracted, hearingabout some, you know, seeing
something else, or there's someloud noises happening in the
background, I cannot, you know,I only in, through silence, I'm
(41:19):
able to hear what I'm trying tofocus on.
And and I think I that it'sit's simple, but I think it's
profound to know, like, hey,only in the silence you could
truly really hear what's, what'sgoing on.
And you got to be patient anddo that I think it's definitely
another episode.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
But, yes, I think that you know, a lot of times
we're not sure if the voicewe're hearing is our own, is the
enemy's or is God's, and that'spart of it, is the discernment
part.
And what voice am I listeningto?
And there are a lot of peoplethat right now go, I don't know
if I'm hearing the voice of Godand, like I said, this is a
completely separate episode.
The voice of God and, like Isaid, this is a completely
(41:56):
separate episode.
But I think, yes, if you're notsilent, how do I know that the
voice I'm not listening to is myown, telling me which I, you
know?
Oh, I think God's telling youthis.
It's, you know, it really onlycomes in the silence, and I
think that time and time again,we start to see silence on the
Bible as this beautiful teachingtool for people to connect
closer with God, as well asdarkness and sadness and hard
(42:16):
times.
I think the silence also ispart of that lesson, it's part
of that plan Good.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more Guys always fun.
I think we've.
You know it's funny.
I think even between us we'vehad we've had little Jonah
discussions, but I don't thinkwe've ever gotten all this far
into Jonah.
So I'm happy that we finallyhad a chance to do it.
We're on an Old Testament kickright now, guys.
I'm appreciating it.
I like, I like all thesestories.
(42:43):
So, yeah, I was going to, I wasgoing to.
There's a little bit of Noah inJonah too, but maybe another
episode.
So, guys, as always to ourlisteners, you are appreciated.
We thank you for spending yourtime with us when you could be
doing so many other things.
We hope that our words areenlightening, interesting and
(43:03):
offer something.
If they do, please let us know.
We get comments all the time.
I think we are talking aboutdoing some response episodes.
That'd be cool.
So send over your comments,questions, concerns and thoughts
and we'd be happy to get tothem.
So until next time we'll seeyou then Have'll be cool.
So send over your comments,questions, concerns and thoughts
and we'd be happy to get tothem.
So, until next time we'll seeyou then have a blessed week.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I am going to stop.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Hey guys, excited to be withyou today.
I'm actually going to start offa little bit different than
we've done before.
I'm going to ask you guys aquick question, not one of my
famous quick questions.
A quick question about ourstudy today.
When you think of Jonah, do yousee it more of a story running
(00:26):
from God or a story about God'srelentless mercy?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh, that's good Before I copy.
I see it as God's relentless,or pretty much God's grace.
I don't think it's running awayfrom God.
He's running away from God'smission and what God wants him
to do, I feel like, but notrunning away from God.
(00:52):
He's always present with God,he's always talking to God.
Jonah, that is the character.
So, yeah, I just think it'sGod's relentlessness, if that's
a word.
But yeah, I just see God justcarving out the way of turning
bad to good, like he always does.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I see it as all of the above.
This is one of the mostfascinating stories to me.
I think it's a story of runningaway from your mission.
It's a story of trying to runaway from god, uh, which is
absurd.
The inability to run away fromgod, uh, and the almost
inevitability of god's willbeing done whether you like it
or not if you guys can see mynotes, you would see right now
(01:36):
that I actually called out bothof those.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I knew you guys were going to answer that exact way.
Um, I, I did, and although Iagree that I believe it's both,
it's obviously a story aboutboth.
I also do see it as thisrelentless mercy from God and
I'm definitely excited to jumpinto this story with you guys.
We're going to set the stagereally, really quickly for this
(01:59):
story.
This is a story of a prophet,jonah, who was told by God to go
to Nineveh, and Jonah does notwant to go, and I'm giving the
very quick overview.
Obviously we're going to divein a lot deeper, but he doesn't
want to.
He actually tries to go as faraway as humanly possible.
The opposite direction Godstops him, brings him to Nineveh
(02:23):
, he gives the world's worstsermon and then he learns a
lesson at the very end.
So with that in mind, let'sjump into the first part, which
is what is Nineveh?
Can either of you guys tell me,kind of, what Nineveh looks
like, what it is?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
To my understanding, nineveh is the Assyrian capital.
It's enormous, it's almost anempire in and of itself and, as
we'll find later, it's kind ofSodom and Gomorrah, part two.
God's you know will, or underhis law, and he's frustrated
(03:11):
with them and he's about to getrid of them, which is why he
wants to send Jonah to go havethem repent, so he doesn't have
to.
But yeah, so Nineveh is a hugecity, it's an empire in itself.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I read that it was built by Nimrod.
Nimrod, I think we did a quickbrief name, that's right.
I forgot which episode was it.
I think Babel, right, orsomething.
Yep, yeah, I think so.
Where Nimrod is this big guy,this big, just kind of strong
kind of guy?
And yeah, I've read that hebuilt this.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Nineveh, yep.
So the Assyrian Empire isdefinitely known for their
brutality, their violence,injustice, child sacrifice.
This was a city of blood is oneof the nicknames it had.
It was a crown jewel of theAssyrian Empire and this is
where God wanted Jonah to go,and he said I want you to go.
(04:05):
And he didn't really give a lotof details to it, but Jonah
knew.
Jonah knew hey, I want to go.
God wants me to go therebecause he's looking for me to
help these people and and tohelp them be forgiven and be
right in God's eyes, and this issomething that Jonah was very
much against is something thatJonah was very much against.
(04:26):
So, just for the purposes ofknowing where things are, god
called him to go to Nineveh,which is right around the Tigris
River.
It's where Iraq would be today,and what he tried to do is go
to Tarshish, which would havebeen around where Spain is.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So this is-.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Opposite yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And at this point this is pretty much the furthest
that you could have gone in theknown world where he was.
He was saying hey, I'm not justgoing far away, I'm going as
far away as I humanly can.
Yeah, and he jumped on a boatand and did just that and
started his way as far away aspossible and it was like a
random boat at a port.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
what I read and it's funny because obviously he was
Hebrew and he jumped on thisboat.
I mean I don't know how commonit was for him to be on a boat
with other different nations ordifferent people that believe in
different things.
I mean they showed that theseguys believed in different gods,
so for them to spend this timetogether.
So I'm not sure there'sanything there.
(05:29):
David, within how much he justdespised this mention, this
mission, and how much he doesn'twant to do this work for God.
It's so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
But I think what you're saying is like is there
any thing to note in the factthat he was willing to get on a
boat full of heathens to crossthe, to cross the known ocean,
to get?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
away from, or gentiles right, I want to say he
, but yeah, no, there wasn'tthey don't.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
They don't, uh, give specifics as to what gods, uh,
these sailors were praying towhen the storm came.
Um, so we're not sure if it wasan enemy a known enemy of
Israel.
If it was not, so, there wasnothing there per se.
There could have been I'm surethere's research on it, but
there was nothing glaring,except for the fact that you're
(06:16):
right.
When this storm came, thesesailors were praying to their
own gods, trying to figure outwhat is on the ship that is
causing them to be upset.
And again you start looking atthis wonderful piece of evidence
of what religions were backthen and also why God was wholly
set apart, because these othergods there were multiple of them
(06:37):
, these had control over theocean and they were upset at
some reason.
And these were people trying tocontrol their own fate by
pleasing a god who was causingthis storm.
Uh, meanwhile it was yahweh, uh, and jonah was asleep, but as
soon as he woke up, he knew hesaid this is, this is for me,
(06:58):
and he went to jump overboard.
He's like, hey, I'll jumpoverboard.
Which, if you have people whotraveled back then by water,
they were not afraid of stormslike this, so if they saw him
jumping off, they would havethought what are you crazy stay
on a boat.
This is what we go through.
(07:19):
We go through storms.
This is a really bad one wherenow we're nervous right and
jonah's going no, I'm just gonnajump right in.
Uh, which they knew was deathand they didn't want.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
They didn't want him to do that.
I mean, they prayed againsttheir, they prayed before.
But he asked him to jump tothrow them.
Throw them in, throw him in,right.
Jonah asked hey, throw me in.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It's, it's my god, you know, and you guys would be
good and they wouldn't right andthey like.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to throw you in.
Okay, maybe he was likeresistant, like Jonah is, or
just maybe stubborn, and theywere like, all right, let me
just pray, let me pray before Ithrow you out there, because I
don't want anything coming backto me that I just killed a man
and you know, let him drown orwhatever it is, and let him
drown or whatever it is, and Ithink that just shows what Jonah
(08:06):
was so afraid of this missionor didn't believe in this
mission that God was sending him, that he went on this boat with
some random Gentiles gettingaway from God, going to Tarshish
, away from the mission that hewants to go towards.
It's like the opposite end.
And for him to go, you knowwhat, just throw me over.
I'd rather just die than dothis.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And what happens is he almost drowns, he is thrown
in and almost drowns, and thensomething grabs him and swallows
him and and I'm going to bringthat to you, jason, because you
mentioned, uh before that a lotof people think it's one thing,
but it actually is not yeah, Imean, you know, we always hear,
hear Jonah and the whale, right,but yet it doesn't say whale In
Hebrew, it says big fish, youknow.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So not a life-altering thing to learn,
but I mean it's just interesting.
I think it is interesting torecognize when we've been
culturized over a word versus,you know, when that's not what
it ever said.
So sometimes you have to checkthe origin source and remember
what you're really reading.
But yeah, it's not a, it's abig fish, it's a big fish and,
(09:10):
and to my knowledge, even at thetime there wasn't or to what I
read, I think there there wasn'teven a fish capable of being
that large to swallow a man.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
To their not to their knowledge at the time is that
true, it is true, and it's alsotrue that that I think words do
matter.
Uh, jewish people at the timereading this story would have
read great fish.
They would not have read whale,they wouldn't even have thought
whale.
So you're right, the culturehas definitely shifted that
narrative.
They would have heard fish andthat would have made it even
more amazing for them to hearthat a great fish that should
(09:40):
not have been there, that wasnot capable of swallowing a man
swallow them up, because Becausewe look at a whale and we go,
oh, of course we've seen, youknow National Geographic, and a
whale will come and swallowJonah and no big deal.
But then it meant a lot moreand I agree with you, jason, I
think the words do matter.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And I would even go so far.
Look, the fish becomes evenmore important because, David,
you're the one who enlightenedme the first time as to what the
fish meant to these people ofNineveh.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, so, and we will get further into that, but you
just because you touched on it.
So there was a God in Ninevehcalled Dagon, and Dagon was a
fish man that devoured doves.
They fed doves to their god,dagon.
And if you look at Jonah's name, his name literally means dove
(10:31):
in Hebrew.
So you have a dove being spitout by a great fish.
To the people who believe in aman who devours doves, it's just
a fishman.
So this is the people ofNineveh.
I mean, mean, god knows whathe's doing.
Uh, he knew he was sending andthese people would have looked
at jonah, uh, with a certainamount of of reverence.
(10:54):
Again, they believed inmultiple gods, they did worship
multiple gods.
They would have looked at himand said this might be dagon
right here.
This might be the, the fish manwho is eating doves.
So, yes, um, but but before hegets spit out, it's this really
interesting thing I want totouch on um, he is inside the
belly of the whale, or the greatfish for three days.
(11:15):
See, I did it right there it's.
It's so ingrained, yeah, it'sso ingrained, um, but he is
inside of the great fish forthree days and he, he kind of
reminds us of Psalms a littlebit when he starts to lament and
talk about the fact that healmost died and what that felt
like and then giving thanks toGod.
Again, we were talking aboutGod's relentless mercy, god's
(11:37):
mercy for saving him, um, but,but even more importantly, um,
there is a comparison of Sheolwith the uh, with the Exodus,
the time of the Exodus.
So when Exodus, the last plague, happens, when it's darkness,
not not the very last one, thethe finger of God, but right
before that there's darkness andit's not a really scary.
(11:59):
You have all these horriblethings happening All of a sudden
.
There's darkness.
But it says darkness, you canfeel it's a little bit different
.
A lot of scholars think thatthis was Sheol, that God brought
Sheol down for people toexperience.
And Jonah talks about him beingin Sheol right now and he's in
the fish in darkness.
It's something that he can feeland he's comparing this with
(12:21):
almost seeing what it's like tobe dead.
Hey, I'm throwing myself over,I'd rather be dead and God in
his brilliance goes okay, here'swhat it's like, and it's really
powerful.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who have gone through
similar experiences who havethey're at the end of the rope,
they feel like it'd be better ifI wasn't even here, and then
(12:42):
they have an experience and go.
You know what?
I was wrong and thank you Godfor showing me that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean, look, we've.
We've been talking a lot aboutthe story, but I mean the
symbolism here is I mean I thinkyou guys knew I was going here.
I mean this whole story isintensely symbolic to me.
I mean, let's, let's just cover.
(13:12):
We won't even cover the rest ofit, let's cover from this point
in past.
He is.
First of all, you have to knowthat he loves the Lord and
trusts the Lord, because whenthe Lord gives him a mission to
save his enemies, he goes nope,other way.
Like you know, he is given.
He runs the other way, notbecause he doesn't want the
mission, because God gave it tohim, because he doesn't like
these people.
Yes, he doesn't believe thatthese people deserve forgiveness
.
He doesn't believe in that.
And he goes the other directionnot because he's running from
(13:35):
God, because he's running fromhis mission.
Right, and I think that's areally big thing.
It's like I think we all know,when God has told us to do
something we don't want to doand we don't go, yeah sure,
let's do that we go the otherdirection.
Often, in fact, we move inopposition to God because we
want to have control, because wewant to believe that we're the
(13:55):
ones who are in control.
And then God takes him off theboat and puts him in the fish
and he's in Sheol, he's in hell,he is in darkness, he is
claustrophobic, he is.
You know what is the thing?
Sometimes you see heaven mostclearly in dark places, and I
(14:19):
think that this thing could bean analogy or a metaphor for any
dark place you've been in yourlife, whether it be, you know,
an action that you're taking youdon't want to take, whether
it's being a way that you don'twant to be, whether it's a
relationship that isn't goingthe way you want it to.
There's a dark place, right, andthis is significant and,
(14:39):
interestingly enough, when Iread through it this week,
chapter two hit me verydifferently this time, when I
was really thinking about itthat way.
It's a beautiful.
They call it a prayer, but Ithink it's a poem.
I think it's a poem.
I mean, I was reading it thistime and I was like, just put
yourself in one of your darktimes in life and read that poem
and you realize, I don't know.
(15:01):
You see yourself in it, you seethat like you have taken me to
the bottom of the ocean, youhave put me behind the bars and
yet you have also.
You've also let me come backand let me be free, and I thank
you for this and I glorify youfor this.
I don't know, it's a beautifulthing.
So anyway, sorry I went on atangent there, but I mean
that's-.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I was gonna mention what I read about it being maybe
more of a symbolism, stuff likethat, and you could see that.
You could really see that inchapter 2 and just kind of
reading the poetry, the prayer,you could see that in like the
big fish, you know even that,like the mysteriousness of that
or how things played out Israelwas.
(15:52):
So this is going a little bitahead, but more of the arching
story that Israel has a favoriterelationship with God and his
unwillingness to share theLord's compassion with other
nations.
So we could see that Jonah youknow it's Jonah is the vessel
like Israel that doesn't want toshare the goodness of God with
other nations, where maybethat's what's going on at the
time and we see that throughoutthe Bible.
It's one story of how God'slove, mercy and grace is for all
(16:14):
, but he's doing it throughIsrael.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, jason, just to go back to your analogy of the
poem, know what's really?
What's incredible for me is heis not in a safe place.
I mean, obviously it's saferthan him being in the water in a
storm.
Uh, but he's not in a safeplace and he's giving this
wonderful prayer and poem to godand then thanking him before he
(16:40):
was spit out.
This is I'm in this dark placeand I'm still giving you the
praise.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
And it's the reason he got out.
This is the important thing.
As soon as he finishes hisprayer, then the whale spits him
out, so he didn't pray after hegot spit out.
He prayed when and again.
This is the significance ofthis story.
Right, like we I always say likewe all know what it's like to
be in a dark place, and maybeI'm wrong about that, but I
think many people do I thinkmany people know what it's like
(17:16):
to be in a low, low part of yourlife and a part where you have
lost control, where you realizethat your ability to control the
situation is limited, if notcompletely null.
And in that moment you caneither give up and stay in the
belly of the whale or you canpray and you can see that
(17:37):
there's something bigger thanyou out there.
You can remember that this is atemporary condition and with
prayer and thankfulness andgiving your, by the way, the end
of the prayer is I give gloryto you.
I hope that my next moves giveglory to you, Something along
those lines.
That's a paraphrase, and that'swhen God says okay, you get it,
you're out, and this is what wehave to do too.
(17:59):
It's like when you're in thedeepest parts of those wells.
You have to praise God and sayI see that I was wrong, I see
that you're right, I'm going tofollow you and I'm going to do
it with the right intentions.
And then, amazingly, the fishspits you out.
It's just the way it works,right.
It's one of the most humanthings to experience.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And amazingly good hobby.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
No, jonah has a lot there.
I think this book has fourchapters and it's an easy read,
but there's a lot of depth thereand a lot of things that you're
bringing out, jason, but alsothere's a lot of other things.
You know symbolism, you know.
To me there's a lot of likeJesus in this story too A
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But yeah, yep, going further, jason.
You know it's not only darktimes he's going through.
It is a lesson of beforehand.
He was, he felt like he was inthe light.
He didn't want to share thatwith somebody else.
So he was saying, hey, I'm good, they're not again comparison,
comparing sin.
He goes into a dark place andthen realizes, hey, I'm not as
(18:59):
holy and great as I thought,right.
And then he's going you knowwhat I'm going to submit to
God's plan and then get spit outas well.
So it's this also beautifulthought of.
We do it all the time, thinking, well, my sin's not as bad as
that one.
And then all of a sudden yourealize and go no, it's all sin
(19:19):
is sin and it's all bad.
So I just have to follow God.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I love that you brought that up.
I love that you brought that upbecause that's not something
that crossed my mind previously.
But you're 100% right.
He was so busy thinking himselfperfect and deserving and so I
don't want to give it to thembecause they don't deserve it.
Well, god's asking you to dosomething, he goes no, I'm not
doing that.
Like.
Both are sins, both are sins,all sin is equal.
So Both are sins.
Both are sins, all sin is equal.
(19:43):
So you've just committed thesin of A pride, b thinking
you're better than somebody else, and C not being obedient while
you're condemning this, otherpeople who are doing.
Obviously, the sins aredifferent, but it's a reminder
that sin is sin.
It's a reminder that sindoesn't necessarily, at least by
(20:08):
God's standards sin doesn'thave levels, there's just sin
and not sin.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I had not even considered that and he does
something that's also very human.
Right after, which I love is,even after sometimes we admit
that sin is sin, we still arelike almost like little children
, going fine, fine, you're right, I'm going to go and do what
you want.
And then he goes and gives theworst sermon ever.
He says five words and that'sit.
It's not like, hey, I'm, Iunderstand what you're saying
and I'm going to go there, I'mgoing to do the best I can.
(20:31):
He goes.
No, I understand what you'resaying.
I'm going to do the bareminimum because I'm, I'm he
pouted?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
through the whole thing.
I'm pouting, he pouted throughthe whole thing.
Well, god's going to kill you40 days, you're going to die and
they're all going.
Guys, everybody, stop whatyou're doing, put on sackcloths,
fast Pray, yeah.
So I mean it was the mosteffective five words, maybe in
Assyrian history.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And it's interesting because the five words to get
the exact translation, I'm goingto read it.
Yet, 40 days and Nineveh shallbe overturned.
And when you look at it, it'salso God's beautiful way of
wording, because overturnedcould mean destroyed, which is
what Jonah would have said hey,you're gonna get killed, and
he's probably a little smugabout it.
(21:15):
But it also could meantransformed, which is God's
version of it 40 days or you'regonna be.
And it's in God's fashion.
Beautifully, they transformedthe entire nation of Nineveh,
transformed.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And I think that shows God's consistent character
In Jeremiah 18, 7 to 10, itgoes if at any time, I announce
that a nation or kingdom is tobe uprooted, tore down or
destroyed, and if that nation, Iwarn, repents of its evil, then
I will relent and not inflicton it disaster that I had
(21:51):
planned.
So God is consistent.
So he wanted them to repent.
There was obviously some Sodomand Gomorrah stuff going on over
there and he's like hey, I'mgoing to give you, just like I
did them, time to repent.
I'm going to send my prophet toyou, jonah, to tell you to
repent and you must do so, ifnot I'm going to destroy you 40
(22:11):
days, I guess.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I think that this is one
of those stories too and I'mglad you brought up that,
jeremiah, because I've beenthinking a lot lately, just
separately from this, but it wasreally tied together with this
is that God's nature doesn'tchange, but God can change his
mind based on your actions.
(22:36):
Right, and so it'sconditionality is what I've been
like really kind of likeprocessing lately.
It's like, you know, I grew upin a church where God is
sovereign and you know God'swill is going to be done, which
means everything that happens onearth is already predestined.
You have no choice in thematter, so forth and so on.
But the Bible has a very clearway of saying look, if these
guys hadn't, if they hadn'tchanged, now that's not to say
(23:00):
sovereignty I'm not going to getinto a sovereignty conversation
because I know there's deepdetails in there but this is a
clear condition that had theynot repented, they were getting
destroyed.
I mean, they ultimately chose torepent and they were not
destroyed, but they had.
They also had the choice don'trepent and be destroyed or
overturned.
However, that is right.
But so I and I and I thinkthat's really interesting in in
(23:23):
this as well is looking at ourhuman responsibility in our own
destinies.
Obviously you have to followGod's will to find that best
destiny.
But God has a plan for you, butthat plan changes if you don't
follow your part of the plan.
Yeah, and I found that to be aninteresting part of the story
as well.
I don't know what you guysthink about that no-transcript.
I don't know what you guys thinkabout that?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No, it goes along with your thinking.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It reminds me back of just Moses and the—we always go
back to Moses the Israelites inthe desert.
Right, I think God has a limit.
He's really slow and patient.
He takes his time.
He sends birds.
Messages, messengers,counselors message everything to
(24:07):
you to repent to turn away.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Which Jonah says.
Which Jonah says literally inthis book.
He says you are slow to anger.
You are those things, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
So we see that there and I think God is.
That's why I love.
I love jumping into this stuffand just speaking about God,
because you know, it's one ofthe things that I always makes
me fall to my knees and just cryout to God and just thank him
for being slow to anger with meand just letting me just
forgiving me pretty much of alot of things that I've done in
the past or continue to dosometimes.
(24:35):
But God is good.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Your theory makes sense.
I mean, you've talked about itwith prayer as well, where, with
prayer, it's as much about usand us changing as it is trying
to change God, and I think itblends with your already
theological thought of, yes, godis there, he is sovereign, he
does know, but he is alsoallowing us to be part of the
(25:01):
details.
And the part of the details isare we going to accept, are we
not going to accept?
I think it's this beautifulblend.
Most people like to think of itone way or another.
Is it free will orpredestination?
And the chance?
Probably it's a blend of both.
God does not allow one or theother.
I think he allows both, and Ithink that your theology just
matches exactly what you've saidabout other things in the past
(25:25):
as well, so it makes perfectsense.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This is just one of those stories and, Javi, I'm
sorry I got to cut you off there, but I thought it was really.
It was really fascinating point.
I mean, you know, Jonah knowsthat, Jonah knows that God is
slow to anger and that his loveis, you know, ever present and
large.
You know, and he says so inthis thing.
Which is why.
Which is why he says I don'twant to.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
He says it flat out I don't want these people to get
saved, because I know you'llsave them, yeah, even after he
did, after he did it, and thenhe, and then he went, and then
he went and pouted for a whilehe still pouted jonah.
He's like I'm gonna sit righthere and we'll watch to see what
happens to the city.
He says jonah, four or fiveyeah, four, five through 11.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Four, five, yeah.
It is Jonah literally gettingangry again.
And then God teaches himanother lesson, another lesson
that's filled with symbolism,but also just a beautiful lesson
of.
It is a hot wind blowing andthe sun is on him and God says
I'm going to build a shade foryou and this wonderful plant
(26:27):
that shades Jonah.
Um, and then God sends a wormto eat the plant and Jonah gets
so hot he almost passes out.
Um, and God asked him aquestion and he said you know
you're angry about this tree,but you weren't angry about the
a hundred thousand people thatyou were looking for me to
ignore.
Yeah, um, it's just, it's, it'sjust amazing.
(26:49):
And then there was a mic dropmoment because and we'll talk
about it but he literally doesthis, says it and then it ends.
That's it.
The whole book ends, yeah justand it's left for the reader to
go uh.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So I'm curious what you guys took from that last,
particularly that last part.
I had a lot of thoughts when Iwas reading it this time and I
was curious what you guys takefrom that.
Ending of the plant grows.
I shaded you from the plant.
I ate the plant.
I made you realize something.
Then I asked you a question,Then I stopped.
What did you guys take out ofthat?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Well, I guess maybe I read it wrong, but when I first
read it I thought about I'mtrying to remember the story,
but just God saying, remindingus that you have no control,
Like it's not up to you right,Like you didn't make this plant
grow or die, you didn't doanything about this, you had no
(27:48):
part to play in this.
I'm just asking you to do this.
Whether you think it's good orbad, just follow me and do it.
So that's what I got out of itand he showed him through that
symbolism, through the pant,going hey, you didn't make it
grow, you didn't make it wither.
What are you angry about?
You have nothing.
I'm the one that has the power.
Just kind of trust me.
That's what I'm, what I wasgetting.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
For me it's the complete opposite.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I think he puts all of it in our court.
I think he's looking for us tolook inward at ourselves.
I mean, we talked about it.
We talked about how Jonah islooking at one sin worse than
another.
Then he's starting to admit thetruth, and then he goes and
gives the worst sermon becausehe's still throwing a little bit
of a hissy fit.
And then, you know, you go onand on and on, and then, even
after he does it, he's stillbitter.
And then he gets comfort from atree shade, and then he gets
(28:32):
mad when he gets, when it'sdevoured.
And you know, I think it leavesit up for us.
God is going here, the ball's inyour court.
What do you think?
What are you going to do next?
Are you going to learn fromthis story?
Because we can look at it andgo.
You know, god, use me as aprophet.
I read this story and say youknow what?
God, maybe you want to use thenext guy?
(28:53):
Um, this is, this is not.
You know, this is not somethingI want to sign up for, although
I would, um, but but I thinkthat this is all about us.
He's leaving it open for us toreally do exactly what we're
doing here dive in and chew onit.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I mean because, look, I blend exactly the two
things that you guys said rightinto a middle ground.
I think that God is telling youclearly it ain't your game to
play.
You don't understand it.
There are things that you areincapable of doing.
You can't make a tree grow aworm bite.
You can't do any of thosethings.
However, you have a role toplay in it, so you still.
(29:34):
It goes back to what I wastalking about a moment ago.
I mean, it goes back to thisconditionality and God's will,
free will and ultimate outcomeessentially is what that final
statement is about, which, bythe way, I think is, if you look
at it literarily, that's whatthe whole story was about from
the first time.
They were just making sure thatyou got it.
At the end the whole story wasabout.
(29:55):
The whole entire story can besummed up by that.
It's an exploration of God'swill, man's free will and the
interplay of those two increating ultimate outcomes that
are still part of God's plan,love it and so, and that's the
whole.
That's literally the wholestory.
So I find that, I find thatreally, I found that last line
(30:17):
exceptionally interesting.
This or that last, you know fewlines.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It's exceptionally interesting this time around To
go back and kind of like circleback a little bit.
Going back, I feel like there'sa lot of symbolism with Jesus
and I mentioned that before toDavid and, just like kind of
combining what you're sayingright now, jason, it's Jesus
came for us to forgive us prettymuch, and we see that we see a
(30:43):
similarity with Jesus and Jonah,right, right, he was in the
whale for three days and threenights.
Um matthew 12 40 talks aboutjesus going into the.
Just like jonah, he went intothe belly of the huge fish and
the son of man will be there forthree days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Right, and he came out of that.
And then in Luke 24, 46, ittalks about the Messiah will
(31:07):
suffer in the third day andrepentance and for the
forgiveness of the sins will bepreached in his name to all the
nations.
That's what Jonah did.
He was in the belly for threedays, came out in three days to
go make this nation go repentand then they will be forgiven
and they will not be destroyed.
I think it's just a continuouspattern To a bunch of people who
(31:28):
didn't deserve it.
It's a pattern that we alwaystalk about.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, well, to a bunch of people who didn't
deserve it.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, didn't deserve it.
And that's the and speaking ofpattern, I mean just for the
history of Nineveh.
They ended up going back ontheir ways later on and was
destroyed regardless.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, they were destroyed anyway, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yet another pattern.
But look, the thing is, theywere destroyed later, but after
they had done what they neededto do in God's larger plan,
which was because later theydestroyed Jerusalem or Judah I
think it was Judah.
They destroyed one of those twocities as a payment for Israel
(32:03):
not being faithful again.
So they acted as an instrumentof God later and then, after
they had done their duty, godwas like all right, now you're
gone because you continue to notrepent.
But the other thing to say too,I mean I love, look, I think
you're right, javi.
I think there's a lot ofconnection there between the
Jesus story and Jonah, and Ithink it was such a great setup
(32:26):
for that, and that's what theseprophets do, right.
The prophets are so good atsetting up Jesus so that when
Jesus would come, you couldpoint back to the Old Testament
and go it was there already.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I'm not doing anything different.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And so you get that.
That's what it is right?
It wasn't supposed to be asurprise for you.
That's what God's saying.
I'm not doing anythingdifferent.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
The Israel, you know, the Israel nation.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
It wasn't supposed to be a surprise.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, it wasn't a surprise for you.
It was there all along andsupposed to be the Messiah, is
here, he's with you.
I've done this and I think hehas a lot of symbolism talking
about Moses and Noah, just kindof reminding them like, hey,
this is not a situation, itshouldn't be a shock to you.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Right and we know that God's consistent right.
We did a whole episode on God'sconsistency.
God is consistent and whenJesus comes and Jesus is doing
the same things that have beenmimicked previously, it's just
another way of saying look at,my fingerprints have been here
the whole time.
The fact that it's expressedthrough a different person, the
fact that it's expressed in adifferent arena even doesn't
(33:30):
make it any different.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
And yeah man, I hadn't thought about that either
.
I really hope that.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I have a really good question.
I don't know if you haveanything else, david, but I have
one more uh, but that was justabout the the, the last, the mic
drop moment at the end.
Oh yeah, I wanted to ask um.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Well, let me drop you guys.
Have you guys ever uh, everbeen or acted like jonah, where
god has called you for a missionto do something and you kind of
went, nah, I, I'm good, dad,I'm gonna go over here, kind of
thing, and maybe you did?
I'm really glad you asked thatquestion.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I'm really glad you asked that question.
I hadn't found a way to kind oflike fold this in yet.
But look, I think this againgoing back to that story of
metaphor and what this can teachpeople how can we practically
place this in our lives?
Look, I think we all havesomething to say, and oftentimes
(34:25):
it's about God, or I mean itcould be about anything right.
Or we have a calling from Godgo do this thing, go follow this
path, go do the right thing.
There's so many things we arecalled to do.
We are called to say we have aninspiration to give to the
world and do for the world, andwe don't.
(34:52):
And the consequence of notdoing that is darkness.
The consequence of not speakingyour truth or following God's
path, or following the path thathas been set inside you is
darkness.
It is.
It's like I'm trying to findthe words for it but it's like
having your hands tied behindyour back and you feel stifled.
That's the word, right.
You feel stifled.
What would it feel like beingin a big fish?
You'd be stifled, right.
(35:12):
So I mean, I think, even from ahuman level, this story is a
reminder that if you are calledto do something, if you feel
strongly inspired to dosomething, do it.
You don't have to trust in yourown ability.
You don't have to trust thatit's the right thing to do.
We've seen this in person afterperson in the Old Testament
that they're not ready, theydon't think they can do it.
(35:34):
And yet the consequence of notdoing the thing you don't think
you can do is way worse than theconsequence of doing the thing
that you want.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
If it means for good too, I think you can discern
that right you have to you knowyou have to discern those things
of how to approach that.
And I think, when you see youfeel like God calling me to do
that or not, test it.
Is it good?
Is it good for somebody else toknow about God?
Is it good for them for you to,like, I don't know, give them
money Because you have thatextra 20 bucks that you just
(36:03):
found?
It's stuff like that.
Like yeah, that is good, it'snot going to hurt them, type of
thing.
It's a way to discern and asecondary point.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Sorry guys and Javi, that's a great point too.
Sometimes the thing that youwant to do might not be good for
you.
This wasn't good for Noah.
Noah didn't go in here, or Noah, jonah didn't go in here, all
the O's and A's and N's.
Jonah didn't go in there andget something out of it.
Remember that, guys.
Jonah did a great job.
Jonah saved 120,000 people,right?
(36:34):
He literally saved them andgenerations after them, and yet
he got nothing out of it.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
He didn't get that.
He didn't.
He got shade.
No, actually he got a plant putover.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
He got shade for a minute.
He got for a minute he gotshade and then the shade got
taken down because he hadn'tearned it.
Like so this is another point.
Like, not always is the thingthat you being called to do for
you, but you got to do it anyway, man.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'll tell you that if I compare myself to Jonah and
I'll actually link it with my,my thought that I was holding
onto uh, when I look at Jonahand I look at the entire story,
I see myself a lot in it.
I see myself comparing, I seemyself then getting to a point
of going okay, you're right, Ineed to do this better.
So I'm going to pray and I'mgoing to give thanksgiving and
(37:20):
I'm going to follow your lead,lord, and I'm going to do what I
feel like you're calling me todo.
But when it all comes down toit, I think the part that links
me the most is the whole time.
I am trying to do all thethings myself.
I am trying to discern God'svoice, I am trying to do the
thing and at the very endthere's the mic drop, moment of
(37:40):
silence.
And I'm going.
That's where it's at.
I need to just be silent withGod.
And God is forcing that silence.
He's not saying, hey, let'srespond afterwards, he's
literally just stopping andyou're left there in silence,
thinking about what justhappened, reflecting back on
what choices you might've made.
(38:02):
I think that this is a brilliantpart of just the reflection
piece is something that I thinkpeople, even when they reflect
back, they're doing it actively.
They're in the process of doingsomething else.
They're driving, they'retalking, they're trying to
figure it out.
They're doing it actively.
They're in the process of doingsomething else.
They're driving, they'retalking, they're they're trying
to figure it out.
They're doing the pros and cons.
To just be silent and still issomething that we see in jonah
(38:26):
over and over again.
He is silent for three days insheol and and it never he keeps
coming out and grumbling.
It's then the silence from God.
Then I'm going wow, all right,now I better listen up, and I
think that that is thecomparison that I would make
with my life in.
Jonah is just that moment ofsilence at the end, and the
(38:48):
reason why it hits me so hard isthat's me and I know there are
times I just need to be silentand I'm not.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think, you made me think about when you and you
need a very big fish.
It would take a very big fishto swallow you up for three days
.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
You made me think of- .
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Javi, what's your answer to that?
What's your answer to your ownquestion?
I mean, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I totally forgot what it was.
Oh, about the.
Have you ever done, jonah?
I think I do it all the time.
I think I do it all the time.
I think God is speaking to meall the time.
He's telling me that, from bigthings to small things, right
From taking leaps and droppingsomething that maybe you worked
hard on, or dropping somethingthat you've been, you know,
doing for a while right and notmoving forward and taking the
risk.
To be honest, I thought takinga risk for this podcast was a
big risk for me.
I thought it was something thatI was really scared to do.
(39:41):
I didn't know how I fit in andI thought this was a great thing
for somebody else.
And it's been a blessing for meto step forward, and I think
this year for me is steppingforward in what God is calling
me.
I see the blessing.
I see that 120,000 Ninevitescould be saved and that's
amazing.
I see that within my life andGod is working every single day
(40:04):
for all of us and if we open upour eyes to try to help out
others and see what's happeningsurrounding us, that we're able
to bless others even with thelittle that we have.
And I see that there, in thisstory at least, jonah.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, and we don't have to.
I mean, this is the thing I'mgoing to take away from you with
.
This is like we don't have tosee the benefit.
We don't have to agree with thebenefit, we just need to be
faithful.
We need to be obedient and ifwe're being called to speak in
his name or to speak goodnessinto something and speak
godliness into something, weshould just do it Like it's
(40:39):
not—we don't have to—we, as allof us Christians, don't have to
understand the plan.
We don't have to agree with theplan.
We don't have to know the plan.
We don't have to know what'sgoing on, but we do have to
trust that there's a plantgrowing and a worm eating and
it's just our job to be obedient.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
You made me think.
Before David, you said silence,and it made me think we could
only hear God if we're silent.
Right, we could only hear eachother.
If I'm silent, If I'm talking,as when you're talking, or I'm
thinking, or distracted, hearingabout some, you know, seeing
something else, or there's someloud noises happening in the
background, I cannot, you know,I only in, through silence, I'm
(41:19):
able to hear what I'm trying tofocus on.
And and I think I that it'sit's simple, but I think it's
profound to know, like, hey,only in the silence you could
truly really hear what's, what'sgoing on.
And you got to be patient anddo that I think it's definitely
another episode.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
But, yes, I think that you know, a lot of times
we're not sure if the voicewe're hearing is our own, is the
enemy's or is God's, and that'spart of it, is the discernment
part.
And what voice am I listeningto?
And there are a lot of peoplethat right now go, I don't know
if I'm hearing the voice of Godand, like I said, this is a
completely separate episode.
The voice of God and, like Isaid, this is a completely
(41:56):
separate episode.
But I think, yes, if you're notsilent, how do I know that the
voice I'm not listening to is myown, telling me which I, you
know?
Oh, I think God's telling youthis.
It's, you know, it really onlycomes in the silence, and I
think that time and time again,we start to see silence on the
Bible as this beautiful teachingtool for people to connect
closer with God, as well asdarkness and sadness and hard
(42:16):
times.
I think the silence also ispart of that lesson, it's part
of that plan Good.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more Guys always fun.
I think we've.
You know it's funny.
I think even between us we'vehad we've had little Jonah
discussions, but I don't thinkwe've ever gotten all this far
into Jonah.
So I'm happy that we finallyhad a chance to do it.
We're on an Old Testament kickright now, guys.
I'm appreciating it.
I like, I like all thesestories.
(42:43):
So, yeah, I was going to, I wasgoing to.
There's a little bit of Noah inJonah too, but maybe another
episode.
So, guys, as always to ourlisteners, you are appreciated.
We thank you for spending yourtime with us when you could be
doing so many other things.
We hope that our words areenlightening, interesting and
(43:03):
offer something.
If they do, please let us know.
We get comments all the time.
I think we are talking aboutdoing some response episodes.
That'd be cool.
So send over your comments,questions, concerns and thoughts
and we'd be happy to get tothem.
So until next time we'll seeyou then Have'll be cool.
So send over your comments,questions, concerns and thoughts
and we'd be happy to get tothem.
So, until next time we'll seeyou then have a blessed week.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
I am going to stop.
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