September 24, 2025 • 38 mins
The ancient duel between David and Goliath has transcended its biblical origins to become cultural shorthand for any underdog victory. Yet beneath this familiar narrative lies a treasure trove of wisdom about facing seemingly insurmountable challenges with courage, faith, and divine partnership.
Our hosts David, Javi, and Jason dive deep into this iconic story, revealing layers that casual readers often miss. For forty days, Goliath intimidated the entire Israelite army before the young shepherd David volunteered to fight. But what many don't realize is that David was already known to King Saul as a musician whose harp playing soothed the king's troubled spirit. God had been preparing David long before this moment, through seemingly unrelated experiences.
The conversation explores fascinating details like David's selection of five stones instead of just one. Was this preparation? A sign of doubt? Or perhaps acknowledgment of Goliath's four giant brothers? The hosts offer multiple perspectives, ultimately agreeing that faith and preparation work hand-in-hand rather than opposing each other. David's refusal to wear Saul's armor becomes a powerful metaphor for rejecting borrowed methods and embracing your unique, God-given approach to challenges.
Perhaps most intriguing is the consideration that Goliath might have suffered from a medical condition affecting his vision and mobility. This doesn't diminish the miracle but enhances it – our own giants often appear more formidable than they actually are when viewed through the lens of fear. The story culminates with David not just knocking Goliath down but completely finishing the job by cutting off his head, teaching us to be thorough in addressing our challenges.
Whether you're facing fears, addiction, relationship struggles, or professional obstacles, this episode offers four transformative principles: name your giant specifically, remember God's faithfulness throughout your journey, use your unique gifts rather than borrowed methods, and run courageously toward what frightens you. Join us for this powerful exploration of how ancient wisdom continues to guide modern battles.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Imagine standing alone on abattlefield across from a giant
whose armor weighs more than youdo, and you stand there no
sword, no shield, just aslingshot and a handful of
stones.
It's not a fair fight, butthat's the exact kind of fight
(00:23):
that God loves.
Stones it's not a fair fight,but that's the exact kind of
fight that God loves.
This is the story of David andGoliath.
It's not merely about anancient duel.
It's about every giantimpossible challenge we face
today.
I'm so excited, guys, to behere today.
How's you doing Good?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We are excited to talk about our friend David.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes, yes, have you guys heard of the story of David
and Goliath?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I know a person who's both David and Goliath actually
.
For those of you out there whodon't know?
David is like 6'4" 280.
So I always joke that he isDavid, who looks more like
Goliath.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That is me.
It's incredible because we'regoing to get into the story, but
this is known as an underdogstory.
It's actually something we usetoday in our regular language of
David and Goliath, that this isthis is something that we know
of.
Everybody has heard of thisstory, but we're going to talk a
little bit about, maybe, thestory you don't know with it,
and then maybe some of the stuffthat you do know in a different
(01:22):
way.
I just want to set the stage.
So right now we have David.
We kind of know him as soon ashe's already in there, he's
already the guy on thebattlefield fighting.
If you look at a little bit ofthe backstory, david was known
by Saul already.
So King Saul, who was the firstking of Israel, lost the favor
of God.
(01:42):
He was doing things that heshouldn't have been doing.
He was taking credit for thethings that he shouldn't be
taking credit for.
Pride got in the way and helost his anointing from the Lord
and because of that he startedto have these weird visions and
he wasn't able to sleep and hewas tormented by an evil spirit.
And one of the things thatcalmed him down was David, who
(02:05):
was a musician.
He played a harp, which I don'tknow if a lot of people knew
that David was a harp player aswell, a musician, and it calmed
Saul's nerves.
And this is how they wereintroduced to each other,
because David worked in Saul'scourt relaxing him.
We're going to fast forward nowreally quickly, right into the
(02:27):
Philistines, which were theenemies of the Israelites, and
the head of the Philistines inwar was Goliath.
And I say that I'm going to usethe term loosely because
there's actually a side of thisthat I'm not sure if anybody
really thought of that Goliathmight not have been the best
warrior for them, but you haveGoliath, who they say is their
(02:50):
best warrior, this giant overeight feet tall, going on the
battlefield and waiting forsomebody to meet with him to
fight, and the Israelites, allof them, go, not me.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
For quite a long time too, Forquite long time too, I mean.
That wasn't, I think, one ofthe things that people don't
know.
I think there's two things thatare important context at this
point is.
One of them is that he didn'tcome out and go hey, bring your
first guy who says yes to me andcome out.
He was there for like 40 daysbefore anything happened, and
we'll get to that story, I think.
But this was like an ongoingsituation.
But also, I think I had thequestion at one point of why
(03:26):
would one person beating anotherarmy be the end of the war?
Right, and this was actually akind of an ancient tactic was,
instead of having all of yourmen fight against all of your
men and killing unnecessarily alot of people, there became this
war scenario in which theywould say I'm going to bring my
best guy, you bring your bestguy, and whoever wins between
those two, we skip the battleand we're going to call it a win
(03:47):
.
So that's kind of what wasgoing on here too, right,
Absolutely, it was definitelyhappening here.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And their best guy, this Philistine, was immense.
It's scary looking somebody whoyou look at and you go.
I don't want to fight this guy.
I don't want anything to dowith.
I start thinking of some of thebiggest people that I've met or
known, some of the world'sstrongest men, and if you add an
additional two and a half threefeet to them and then put them
(04:13):
in armor, what would that looklike to me?
And I'm going, yeah, I'm goingto, I'm going to pass on this.
I don't know if I necessarilywant to go out there and risk my
life, but knowing I'm gonnalose anyway, pick me, I'll go
out there.
Yeah, he did.
Yeah, and this is a.
He was overlooked by his family.
David was a boy.
He was not of big stature, infact, he was small stature,
(04:35):
couldn't, couldn't even don hisown armor, and he was overlooked
by his family.
So now he has all of thisbehind him, and I say this
because a lot of times when weface our giants, it's the past,
it's our history that adds intothat fight where we're going.
I'm not good enough, I'm notbig enough, I'm not something
enough, because life has taughtme that.
(04:56):
And and he has all of that.
That's why it's set up this way, because he is feeling the
weight of him being inadequateto be on a battlefield with
goliath.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But he had something goliath did not have they had
the lord yes, and he had, and hehad faith in that lord right
and he, he believed that hecould win, not on his own merit
but on the faith and trust andbelief in God, and that you know
that ultimately is the turningpoint.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So here's.
Here's two things I want totalk about real quick.
One is probably going to takethe majority of the conversation
, because I was alwaysfascinated by this and I'm
curious about your point ofviews, guys.
And then another one is adifferent take on the story and
it's really funny because theother day, while I was preparing
for this, jason had sent me aclip to hey, go look at this.
(05:52):
It is, if you look at JohnnyLawrence as the good guy and
Daniel LaRusso as the bad guyand Saved by the Bell, the same
thing Zach Morris as the bad guy.
It's a different way to look atthe same story, and I actually
have one of those for David andGoliath, so I want to bring that
up again.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I can't wait to hear that.
I'm thrilled to hear that.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But the first question I have is you have
David who is now.
He has volunteered to fightGoliath and when he goes onto
the battlefield he reaches downwith all the faith of the Lord,
having the heart after God, andhe picks up five stones instead
of the one that he would need tokill Goliath.
So, hey, I have the faith God'sgot me.
(06:35):
He's bringing me through this.
There's one guy I'm great witha slingshot, I'm grabbing a
stone and hitting him and hegrabbed five.
Yeah, why do you guys think hegrabbed five?
Do you think this was a lack offaith?
What was going?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
on here, javi, why don't you go first?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
For me you've told me this before, David, and I think
most people don't know hegrabbed five.
How about that?
I didn't know he grabbed fiveand I I was trying to look back.
Where did it say that?
Because I think initially whenyou read the Goliath story, it
says a stone.
He took one stone and that onestone knocked him out, so you
(07:14):
figured he only had one in hisbag.
But yeah, I just never thoughtI have to say that.
Why he has five?
Because he usually carriesaround with multiple stones to
fight off lions, like he has inthe past to fight off other
animals for his flock, a flockof sheep, because he was a
shepherd.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, and I think that if you look at that time in
warfare and he would have beenconsidered in the military ranks
a slinger that's what theycalled them.
Slingers had the bags and whatthey would have is multiple
stones in their bags or whateverwould have happened.
The only reason I say you knowthat this was different is he
didn't have his bag alreadyfilled.
(07:53):
He chose to pick up five, andthere are a couple of different
versions of why there aredifferent people who've talked
about this, for you know quite along time and you know you're
right is as a slinger, you wouldpick up multiple stones, so
you're always prepared.
I've also heard it, as Ialready kind of let it out, that
(08:13):
there are people who feel likemaybe there was, he had the
faith, but he also had doubt,and man does.
That hit home for a lot of usbelievers.
And then there is Goliath'sfamily.
Hey, he had four brothers.
Let's stay there for a second.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
You can stay there for a second.
I think you can stay there fora second right.
Talking about doubt and facingoppositions like this, right, I
mean, david, this littleshepherd, against this eight
foot tall giant, of courseyou're going to have some doubt.
I think he walked into thisbattlefield knowing that the
Lord was behind him.
I mean, he had to convince Saulto let him in so he was ready
(08:48):
to go into battle, and againstthis big Goliath.
Right, his giants, right,that's where the term comes from
.
Right, you're going to havesome kind of fear to go into
this.
Your life is on the line, right.
But he did have confidence thatthe Lord was with him, walking
into it and being prepared tofight this giant.
And having five is almostsaying like I'm going to kill
(09:10):
you for sure.
He didn't know he was going tobe one.
The Lord didn't say, hey, justtake one stone and you're going
to kill him.
And then he took five.
You know that's doubt to me.
So I don't think he doubted,but that's my take.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
What do you think, jason?
I totally agree, I think I.
I think it's when you read it,you know he says I'm gonna do.
He's the one that comes to sauland says the lord's gonna
deliver this, I've any.
And he convinces him I, Ikilled a lion, saving the sheep.
I killed a bear saving thesheep which, by the way, all
that stuff is also, you know,kind of a predicate to j coming
(09:45):
too right.
So, but David says I, you know,I've done these things before.
Yes, he's, you know, six cubitsand a span tall, but so is a
bear and I've taken care of that.
So he says he can.
Then he, it does say he reachesfor five stones out of the
stream bed and he moves on andlook, knowing you're going to be
delivered from something, orknowing that God is going to do
(10:07):
it, doesn't mean that it's goingto be on the first shot.
It doesn't mean that God'sgoing to make the next step easy
.
It doesn't mean that you knowDavid had no idea how it was
going to go.
So I think it's important justto remember, like, even if
you're being called to dosomething and you feel confident
about it, doesn't mean it'sgoing to be easy.
That's what this story teachesme.
It doesn't mean it's going to beeasy.
It doesn't mean you shouldn'tbe prepared.
(10:28):
You don't get to walk into itand go.
You don't get to walk into andgo.
Well, god's going to deliver.
I don't.
I'm not even going to take anyanything with me.
No, no, no, no, because if thegiant doesn't fall the first
time, you got more chances.
So that's what I found, and Ialso think it adds a humanity to
David, because if David walkedin with that amount of cockiness
(10:49):
and a single stone, we wouldall have been like I don't
relate to that.
I don't understand what it islike to have that kind of faith.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, I think it's important that it is there.
I'm glad you brought it up,david.
I think it's important that itis there to have that.
He walked into it with fivestones.
You know, like he was confidentand I think it says here in 1
Samuel, 17, 45 to 46, it saysthis day the Lord will deliver
you into my hands.
This day, like I'm going to getyou Today.
(11:17):
I don't know if it's going tobe one stone, maybe four, maybe
the third one will get you, butI'm going to get you and I will
strike you down and cut off yourhead.
I am confident in that becausethe Lord is with me and that's
what he feels like.
You know, as he feels like theLord was with him, I'm going to
get you, this guy, somehow, someway, and I'm going to cut off
your head.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, before we end this, can we talk about the fact
that David, like some of thelines he says, he's poetic man,
but he's poetic but you canrelate to that jason.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
You can relate he's, he's, he's a poet he's a writer.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
He's a writer, you know like yeah, but like you
read some of these, some ofthese lines that david had to
say when he like to golidirectly, you got this little
dude talking to Goliath and hedrops some epic talk back.
It's nuts.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, yeah, there's something to be learned there, I
think.
Like I said, having confidencein the Lord For us all, even now
, to this day, when the Lordputs something in your heart,
just walk through it withconfidence.
You'll be scared, your palmswill be a little sweaty, but
just walk through it withconfidence, knowing that the
Lord will deliver you and yourarms will be a little heavy.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Mom's spaghetti, it's going to happen, so look.
David, your five stones thingis awesome though.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I can't let you not get to your five stones.
I just want to.
I want to.
Actually, you know, one of thethings that you guys both said
and it's interesting becausepeople do struggle with this is
faith and preparation together,that a lot of people think that
they go opposites, but reallythey're hand in hand.
So a lot of people think if Ihave faith, then God will do.
And part of it is movement andpreparation, and both of you
said that separately.
Nehemiah 4.9 and then Proverbs21.31 talks about that exactly,
(13:03):
about being prepared, but alsoGod is there.
So, knowing that, yes, I thinkDavid did know that God was
there.
Maybe the five stones waspreparation.
What's interesting is I havealways taken the route of maybe
David was a little bit doubtful,and that makes me feel good
about doubting God sometimes,for sure, but also, being
(13:24):
somebody from a Jewish descent,you know five symbolically means
grace, and when I'm looking atit I'm going.
Grace is what saved David andconquered Goliath on the
battlefield.
It was grace, it wasn'tstrength, it wasn't his ability
to fight, it was God's grace, sograce.
So for me I'm going.
(13:45):
He picked up five exact stonesand we're told five exactly,
because to me it's symbolically,that means grace and that's
what god used.
That's beautiful.
So but there are also just togive the other one, people do
say that, hey, goliath had afamily, four older siblings, and
you know, and it would havebeen Goliath and the four
siblings and that's why the fivestones.
(14:07):
So just to make sure I completewhat people argue about, that's
one of the arguments that comein.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And you've said before that some people think
that because he was so large, hewas one of the Nephilim.
Nephilim I don't know how yousay that word and there was five
in total is what the?
I think it was a midrashylearning and so the idea that he
picked up five is actually like, uh, it's almost like an easter
egg.
To say goliath was nephilim andhe had four brothers, like I
(14:36):
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I like who knows if that's true, but I I, when you
first time you said that, I hada little bit of the mind-blown
reaction yeah, no, absolutely,and I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring
my second point in the, and thenwe're going to talk about kind
of how, what it means for today,what this means for our giants.
But just here's my hot take ondavid and goliath.
If you look at the wording used, goliath was led to the
(15:03):
battlefield.
When he's in the battlefieldand david is far away, walking
towards him, he said who is thisguy who is carrying sticks
plural.
Meanwhile he only had one stick.
It was his shepherd staff, thathe had.
Am I a dog?
You also have a giant, you.
You have this giant who is outthere, who apparently can't see
(15:26):
well, who has to be led to thebattlefield.
And there has been medicalresearch done saying that he
might have had a disease, a, atumor on his brain, which we
know causes people to be giantsand also some of the side
effects of having that type oftumor is double vision, blurred
(15:47):
vision.
He has multiple sticks versusone.
Um, so now we're looking atpossibly goliath, who was not
well, who, who had to.
He was huge, but this wassomebody who actually had a
tumor on his brain being walkeddown to the battlefield.
I I know it's a hot take, butit's just one that I wanted to
bring out there.
Do you know where I firstlearned about that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I like the idea of thinking about that in the sense
of when we look at ouroppositions, like we see this
giant and we don't know thathe's crippled, he's kind of he
can't even see me.
You know, he just looksgigantic, he's big, but he has
no strength, right.
He's barking, but he has noskills, right.
So we would run away with ourtail between our legs, kind of
(16:33):
thing, because we think thisgiant is going to kill me
without knowing that he has atumor, he has something going on
and.
I think when we look at our lifenow, when things are happening,
like God said, move forward inthis.
Have confidence in that,because you don't know what's
going to happen.
Maybe that wall will tumbledown, you know referring back to
(16:53):
Jericho and the wall right Like, maybe the giant will fall
easily by one stone, because youknow I am with you.
Don't worry about that.
You don't know what's happeningon that opposite end of that.
You don't know what's going tohappen on the other side of that
bridge.
Once I take you over thatbridge, you know it could be an
easy defeat.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I mean just to reword what you're saying too, to see
if I'm understanding is you'resaying that from the outside it
looks huge, it looks terrifyingand scary and I make it into a
big monster, when reality he waskind of a marshmallow and you
know.
But I didn't know.
But if I allow my senses toreact to what I'm looking at,
(17:32):
it's a big, huge monster, but inreality I'm the one who've
overhyped it.
Is that what you're kind ofgetting at?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, we make this big thing in our head about what
these monsters are or thesewhatever we're trying to
overcome and not knowing thatthe God of all.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Knows all and knows that it's a marshmallow saying
hey you don't overcome this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I got you, I am with you.
This is small, this is nothingto me, so I got you.
I'm with you.
This is small, this is nothingto me, so I got you with that.
Or you didn't even know what'shappening with that, and that
happens to me many times andfighting my fears and fighting
my risk you know taking risksand stuff like that I started
seeing that wait a minute, it'snot that bad, it's not that.
You know, it only hurt a littlebit.
You know it was nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It looks scary, but it's not all that scary.
The first time I ever read thatwas actually in Malcolm
Gladwell's book I think it'scalled David and Goliath
actually and it starts with thatwhole thing.
So yeah, yeah, it's in thebeginning of that book, but he
talks about the fact thatthere's a pituitary gland or I
think it's pituitary tumor orsomething, and that he literally
was seeing double which is laidout.
He's extremely oversized, youknow, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(18:35):
Anyway, I thought that was acool little, a cool little touch
.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and, and you know, when you start to compare
it, like you said, javi, to ourgiants that we see today, and
our giants seem completely fitand dominant and we can't get
past the size of them, and thenyou realize that there might be
something wrong with them.
There might be somethingsmaller about our giants that we
didn't realize.
The other thing and I believethis also comes from gladwell he
(19:00):
talks about the, the slingshotitself and the combat
orientation and typically, youknow, goliath came out with a
big shield and a and big armorand a big sword and he's ready
for hand-to-hand combat.
And here you have david who welook at just the size of him,
but we realize that again, he'sa slinger.
(19:21):
He is somebody who is fightingfrom a distance incredibly
accurate.
I believe that they've measuredthat type of force it would be
35 meters per second, with therock being thrown, similar to
almost a 22 being shot with.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So now you have this have you ever seen videos?
Have you ever seen?
Videos of people who actuallyknow what they're doing, doing
this, Like when I was a kid, Iused to think, oh, it's like a
slingshot, and how did hepossibly shoot that thing at
that?
And you're thinking like dink,like it just hits his head and
like falls off.
But you actually see a video ofsomebody who knows what they're
doing and they're throwing thisthing almost the speed of a
(19:58):
real bullet.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And there for me it's like it's the leaning on your
own strengths right, and reallylooking at Goliath from far,
let's say right, as ahypothetical right.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, in this story, yes, Well, your gifts right,
your gifts, not your strengths,right, right, right Looking at
it from far, I go.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
How can I use my strength to take this guy down?
Look at it from God and go.
How can I use my strength totake this guy down, right?
So how can I use my strength toovercome my giants?
Right, and it's all that.
And I think God is so good.
He knows how to use what you'regood at, or use that stuff that
you have in your bag right Perse, like the kids say now right.
Yeah, totally the stuff that youhave in your bag, like to use
(20:35):
it to overcome oppositions, andI love that the story has so
many layers to it, which is whywe're obviously discussing it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
That's a really interesting angle too, Javi.
I hadn't thought about that.
I mean, it's like there's ahundred ways he could have
delivered him, but he does it inthe ways of he could have went
out and fought him with sword tosword, combat right.
He would have been destroyed andstill beat him, because God
could have done that.
But that's not the way Godworks.
God says what are you good at?
What is your gift?
What have I gifted you?
(21:02):
And that's the way and I thinkit's also just a notification to
people to say look, david.
Everybody else said David puton this armor.
Everybody else said take thissword.
And David said this isn't forme.
So sometimes you've got to doit your way.
I mean, if God tells you it'sgoing to happen, you have to
(21:22):
trust.
Then you have to trust thatGod's telling you the right way,
and then you have to trustyourself that you're doing it in
the way that you know best howto.
So again, this story is justlike everything.
It's just so full right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, love it.
You know, there is when I lookat the story and I start to
realize what that means, becauseevery time we look at a story
like this, we're going, allright, this is great, it
happened then.
Even if I believe, don'tbelieve it's symbolic, it's not,
it's still something that is3,000, 3,500 years old.
What does that mean for metoday?
And I look at that and I go,okay, we talked about maybe your
(21:52):
giant is not as big as we think.
But when I look at, like facingyour giants, the first thing
that I think of is to name yourgiant.
This isn't just hey, there's agiant and I have to slay him.
It was.
This is Goliath.
This is a giant with a name.
I've named it.
(22:13):
So maybe it's fear, it'saddiction, it's shame.
You have to name your giantbefore you're able to slay it,
before you're able to combat it.
I think that's really the firstone.
The second one is rememberingthat God is faithful in your
life.
You guys just said it David wasnever trained in the army, he
(22:33):
was trained as a shepherd and inthat training as a shepherd, he
had to learn how to use aslingshot to protect his flock.
So God's faithfulness was allover his life, not necessarily
him.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Hey, in order to protect, I have to join the army
, and all that I wanted tomention, too, david, and I think
sometimes when we read thesestories, you go you know what I
am, david, and I could overcomethe big bully at high school,
kind of thing right.
And we have to remember thatthis story, that's David's story
(23:07):
and God used David in that way.
Now, can we learn from that?
Can we learn from God'scharacter?
Can we learn from David's storyhow he approached Goliath?
Yes, and that's what we'redoing today.
I think we're approaching thatin that kind of way.
So I just wanted to mentionthat it's small.
I think it's just a small thingfor us to know when we're
reading these stories and theOld Testament is full of it.
It's full of these incrediblestories with God doing
(23:29):
incredible things, and we haveto understand that that's what
happened to those individuals.
Now can we learn from that and,moving forward, of God's
character, of course, just tocatch up.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It's how to face your own giants.
The first was to name yourgiant.
If it's fear, addiction, shameto name it, because Goliath had
a name, it wasn't just hey,there was some giant out there,
so we want to name our giants.
The second was to rememberGod's faithfulness through your
life, and that was hey, davidwasn't a trained army guy
through your life, and that washey, david wasn't a trained army
(24:00):
guy, he was a trained shepherdand God used his life.
We just talked about that.
And then one that the next onethat I have on my list is one
that you actually mentioned,jason again, without even
knowing that this was on my listwhich was don't use somebody
else's armor, don't use somebodyelse's work with God, because
you have your own story, youhave your own giftings, you have
your own, and so, and then thelast thing is is running towards
(24:21):
your giant, and I think this isthe one that almost everybody
gets held up on.
Almost everybody has the issuewith is kind of like all right,
great, I've identified my giant.
It took me a little while andI'm not going to use somebody
else's plan and I do trust God,and I'm still terrified because
there's this giant in the middleof the field and I don't want
to go up to him and I think it'sthe fear of that giant instead
(24:43):
of running towards it, and Ithink that's the the very last
part that we're supposed tolearn from this story.
That David did, which was heran with all of that, he still
said you know what?
I'm running towards the giant.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Glad you said that I I can relate.
I think you know I'm runningtowards the giant.
Glad you said that I can relate.
I think we speak about that allthe time.
David and the stuff that Ihesitate to take a step forward
and want to approach and do andI make it out to be this big
Goliath, this big scary thing,and I don't know, it's just like
a hold that's.
(25:18):
Maybe it's the armor that'sweighing me down right when Saul
puts that armor on David.
Maybe that's what it is.
It's the armor that's holdingme down and I need to take it
off and just trust the Lord thathe will see me through it, that
whatever I do face that he willhelp me to overcome it.
And I don't know, I can relateto it.
(25:39):
I can relate to exactly that,and I think a lot of people do,
about facing and running towardsGoliath.
I mean, the first thing youwould do is not run towards
Goliath.
You would let me figure out aplan, let me sit down and think
about it and then wait more than40 days to attack this guy.
You know, or you know what.
I'll just quit and just stayright here or let him kill me or
maybe turn away Like you wouldnot like most people I feel like
(26:02):
would not run towards Goliath.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's not a thing you would do.
No, listen.
We see it in the story hundredsof thousands of Israelites
standing on the battlefield andall of them are saying not me.
And I think that that's reallyimportant for our lives to say
listen, think that that's reallyimportant for our lives, to say
listen, we understand how scaryit is, but you have to run
(26:27):
towards it.
And David didn't do it withhimself and he also didn't allow
God to do it with him.
He did it in collaboration, hedid it in relationship with the
Lord, and I think that that'sthe really important part.
Where you go, sometimes we goall right, I'm going to face
this, I got this, I'm going togo forward, and you do it and
you go.
Man, that was brutal, that wasawful, and it's because you
forgot the God part.
And then other people go allright, god go, take care of that
for me, and they wait and theykeep waiting and it's not
(26:49):
getting fixed and they're going.
Well, that didn't work either.
It really isn't the combinationof both that, honestly, you're
able to face giants and conquergiants, that's good.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
That's one thing I always say is I love that you
said that that's a nice lineconquering your giants.
One thing I always tell peopleit's you know cause I've done
both.
I've stayed there and not movedforward in what maybe God's
calling me to do.
Or I feel like Goliath is veryscary I can't approach that, you
that.
But I also have seen God'sglory on the opposite side of
(27:22):
running towards my Goliath forhypothetical.
And then one thing I always tellpeople is God is only going to
show you one or two stepsforward and you got to trust him
in taking that first step.
And then he's going to lead youand take the next two steps and
then maybe it might be going tothe other side and taking that
(27:42):
step to the side, but he's goingto show you the step by step.
He's not going to show you like, hey, you're going to conquer
this giant, he's going to fall,you're going to chop his head
off and then you're going to bethis big, great king.
He did not think he was goingto bring King David and we
haven't gotten there yet.
But, like you know and I thinkthat's what it is we have to
trust the fact that, god, I'mgoing to walk together with you,
(28:03):
hand by hand.
Take this first step, beconfident in that, and wherever
it goes, it's going to go.
And then the next step, I'mgoing to do the same thing.
So, coming together in unitywith God.
I love that.
You said that, david.
That's exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, and the what's really cool is the very last
thing that happens, because welook at David and Goliath and
sometimes we see the first partof the clip which is, you know,
david hits him the slingshot andhe wins and it's you know, it's
wonderful and and all of that,but what happens afterwards is
he actually runs up, takes thesword and cuts Goliath's head
off.
And I really think that'sbeautiful and symbolic as well
(28:38):
for us facing our fears, becausesometimes we will dip a toe
into the fear, into the fear.
I'm gonna throw a rock fromhere and then, if it knocks him
down, great, but maybe he wasjust unconscious.
What david did after that wasI'm still now gonna run right up
to him, I'm gonna go face toface with the giant and to cut
his head off to end it for good,so I know I don't have to have
(29:01):
this fear again.
I think this, the symbology ofthat is so beautiful, of with
our fears, it's not justknocking it with a rock, it's
making sure that it is reallydead, and I think that that's
the most important thing.
Actually, with jason here, I'mhoping, because I think this is
right right up his alley, what Ijust said.
So you want to repeat it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So, jason, you know one of the things I look this is
right right up his alley, whatI just said, so you want to
repeat it?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
yeah yeah, so, jason, you know, one of the things I
look at is not only to theboundless bible my name is david
, with a rock in the head, butafterwards david runs up and
cuts his head off with the sword.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
yes, and when I look at fears, I'm going that how
often do we hit a fear from faraway, going, all right, I'm just
going to throw a rock at it andand see what happens?
But David actually ran straightup face to face with the giant.
At that point the giant couldhave just been knocked out and
woke up, who knows.
But he ran right up and madesure this fear, this giant, is
(29:54):
going to be done and I love thesymbology of that.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I do too.
I mean, I love the fact that hedid what he came to do.
He made sure he finished thejob, and then he used the
finishing of that job latertowards the other rule.
You know, he said, look, I didthis, and I did it because of my
God, and so he used it as atestimony as well as using it as
a, you know, proof point.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, yeah, I love it .
This is such a great story ofconquering and conquest and
facing your fears, and I thinkthat sometimes what we do is we
look at it just as this clicheof hey we're, you know David and
Goliath, this is the underdogstory.
This is used all it's almostlike the word love.
It's used so much you sometimeslose the meaning of what this
(30:43):
is.
You forget about it.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, yeah, the other thing that's never talked about
too.
I mean, you brought up theGoliath.
Maybe wasn't all their story,but what about the story of Saul
in this?
I mean, the story of Saul inthis is ultra important.
He was anointed by God, he wasthe chosen one, so to speak.
Right?
I mean, the Israelites had saidwe want a king, we want a king,
(31:04):
we want a king.
And God said no, you should nothave a king, you should not
have a king, this is not goodfor you.
And they continued to say wewant a king.
And so he said fine, I'll giveyou a king.
First of all, I think that's aninteresting enough story, right,
the fact that you know if Godhas enough love for us to say if
you're going to be thisobstinate, eventually you're
going to get what you want.
(31:25):
But here's what it's going tobe, and it's going to end up
being Saul.
So he anointed Saul.
Saul was the anointed one andhe began to do bad things.
Even though he was anointed, hebegan to do bad things and he
ultimately lost his mind for itand he lost his position and his
anointing and all those things.
So I think that it's importantto remember that David rose
(31:45):
because of his faith.
Saul descended because of hislack of faith, and I know that
we like to talk a lot about thefact that we're always once, we
love God, we're always in a goodplace, but there's a lot of
like.
You need, look, you need tolive up to that faith.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You need to live up to it or else.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Right, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
No, no, I'm sorry to cut you off.
It's just like I was so excitedabout that because you brought
up Saul and I just feel likethere's a lot there from his
descent, right, from him beingthe anointing taken away from
him, right, like his spirit wastaken away.
It said right and totally hehad like these bad spirits and
they.
That's the reason why evendavid came to his court to kind
of, you know, to make him feelbetter, because everything was
(32:30):
taken away from him and whatI've, what I've gotten from saul
, which was very interesting infirst samuel, 15, 11, and it
jumps over to 22 and 23.
It talked, you know, to me.
What I got out of.
It was saul disobeyed god andwhat god was saying is like
sacrifice.
He was trying to sacrificeanimals and that's why god felt
(32:52):
like you're disobeying me, you.
The disobeying god is worsethan sacrifice and I think
sometimes people go hey, I didwrong, hey, wrong.
Hey, I'm sorry God, but you knewalready.
God already told you not to dothat and you still did it.
That disobeying is worse thansacrifice.
And it says here, it goes in 1Samuel 15, 11,.
It goes I regret that I hadmade Saul king, which is weird,
(33:16):
because God regretted it,because he has turned away from
me and he has not carried out myinstructions.
And then it jumps over and goesdoes samuel replied?
Does the lord delight in burnoffering and sacrifices, as much
as in this, as much?
as in obedience in obeying thelord to obey is better than
sacrifice, and that's what hesays and I I think that's key,
(33:38):
that's key for a lot of us toknow that you know, when god's
calling you to do something andI've been there before don't
disobey him.
It's better than sacrifice.
It obeying the heart of God.
They weren't obeying thegoodness of God.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
They weren't obeying in those ways, and that's why he
said you know, you'rewhitewashed tombs, you're dead
(34:13):
on the inside and yet you lookbeautiful on the outside.
And so it was anothercondemnation of ritual over
expression.
And this is what happened toSaul too, and you know a totally
different episode.
But you know, david ends upbecoming unfaithful later and he
doesn't lose the favor of God,and so maybe that's the good
cliffhanger to leave this on sowe can have a David episode
(34:33):
later.
But you know, this is thedifference Saul loses his favor
and he loses it because you knowhe loses it because he doesn't
obey, and David screws up but hestill obeys, and that's a
really small detail.
But again, that's for anotherepisode.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, and I also think when you look at Saul,
when you guys bring that up, youguys are going really deep into
how he lost the anointing.
I look at Saul and what I thinkof is, hey, we just talked
about hundreds of thousands ofIsraelites that didn't want to
move forward and fight Goliath,and I'm saying, well, because
their anointed one, if you'regoing to believe in God, the one
who got anointed, he wasterrified, he wasn't going
(35:12):
forward, he didn't have thefaith anymore.
And I think, seeing that you'regoing wait a minute, if you're
the anointed one and you'rescared, what does that mean for
me?
Where David then had all ofthis faith and came forward, and
I think that really speaks alsoto us.
In fear, where we go, who's thatperson who we really look up to
, and we go, wait a minute ifyou're afraid that I need to be,
(35:34):
and David's like, no, I don't,I have God.
He's much bigger than the fear.
He's much bigger than even my.
The person I look up to, theperson who's taught me, the
person who's been there for me,he's even bigger than that
person and that's sometimes thatthat's breaking the chains of
of your family's history.
That's breaking the chains, thebonds of, I mean man, it's just
(35:56):
, it's so filled with just asymbolic, wonderful story of
defeat Anytime I hear about it.
Like I said, I've never thoughtabout it that way and now you
guys mentioned I'm going howbeautiful is that?
The fact that Saul alsorepresents that as well.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, yeah.
We need a David in our life, Ithink, and sometimes when things
are going wrong or bad I'm here, I need a David.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I need a David in my life.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I always need David.
I need David.
I should be a hero, but we allneed a David in our life.
I feel like what you were sayingright now David is.
David represents theencouragement, the hope of
things.
Sometimes when things lookingdesolate, right, or you lose
somebody in your life, havingthat somebody around you that's
encouraging, that knows, hey,the Lord is with us, you'll be
(36:44):
able to overcome this.
We all need that and I thinkDavid was that.
And this terrible time of Saulwas withered away, he was losing
his mind.
The whole Israelites werescared of this big guy.
It was 40 days of them in fearand David was like, no, I'm good
, I got this.
Days of them in fear.
And David was like, no, I'mgood, I got this, I got this for
(37:05):
our greater good, for our tribe, our culture right, and we all
need somebody like that.
And I think if you are that,and sometimes in a troubled time
, I think step forward, stepforward in confidence in God and
to give hope to others andstuff.
So that's what I heard you say,david, and I think that's I see
that in that story.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
That sounds good.
If I said that, go for it.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So, guys, like I said , this is always enlightening.
Especially, I love these OldTestament stories, or, even more
so, the ones that everybodyknows.
You know, david and Goliath isone of those stories that
everybody, even you know.
Secular people know the storyof David and Goliath, but they
don't really sit and understandthe depths of it.
They don't know the context,the history, the whys, the so
(37:48):
forth and so on.
I think it's so valuable to beable to do that, so this has
been fun.
There's so much more to talkabout David, though, but that'll
be another day.
So, guys, thank you for yourtime.
Thank you for your consistentlistening.
We appreciate your likes,comments, shares.
We love your reviews on any ofyour listening platforms and we
hope that we get some greatfeedback from you soon.
We'll talk to you next time.
(38:09):
Thank you, have a blessed week,see you.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Imagine standing alone on abattlefield across from a giant
whose armor weighs more than youdo, and you stand there no
sword, no shield, just aslingshot and a handful of
stones.
It's not a fair fight, butthat's the exact kind of fight
(00:23):
that God loves.
Stones it's not a fair fight,but that's the exact kind of
fight that God loves.
This is the story of David andGoliath.
It's not merely about anancient duel.
It's about every giantimpossible challenge we face
today.
I'm so excited, guys, to behere today.
How's you doing Good?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We are excited to talk about our friend David.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yes, yes, have you guys heard of the story of David
and Goliath?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I know a person who's both David and Goliath actually
.
For those of you out there whodon't know?
David is like 6'4" 280.
So I always joke that he isDavid, who looks more like
Goliath.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That is me.
It's incredible because we'regoing to get into the story, but
this is known as an underdogstory.
It's actually something we usetoday in our regular language of
David and Goliath, that this isthis is something that we know
of.
Everybody has heard of thisstory, but we're going to talk a
little bit about, maybe, thestory you don't know with it,
and then maybe some of the stuffthat you do know in a different
(01:22):
way.
I just want to set the stage.
So right now we have David.
We kind of know him as soon ashe's already in there, he's
already the guy on thebattlefield fighting.
If you look at a little bit ofthe backstory, david was known
by Saul already.
So King Saul, who was the firstking of Israel, lost the favor
of God.
(01:42):
He was doing things that heshouldn't have been doing.
He was taking credit for thethings that he shouldn't be
taking credit for.
Pride got in the way and helost his anointing from the Lord
and because of that he startedto have these weird visions and
he wasn't able to sleep and hewas tormented by an evil spirit.
And one of the things thatcalmed him down was David, who
(02:05):
was a musician.
He played a harp, which I don'tknow if a lot of people knew
that David was a harp player aswell, a musician, and it calmed
Saul's nerves.
And this is how they wereintroduced to each other,
because David worked in Saul'scourt relaxing him.
We're going to fast forward nowreally quickly, right into the
(02:27):
Philistines, which were theenemies of the Israelites, and
the head of the Philistines inwar was Goliath.
And I say that I'm going to usethe term loosely because
there's actually a side of thisthat I'm not sure if anybody
really thought of that Goliathmight not have been the best
warrior for them, but you haveGoliath, who they say is their
(02:50):
best warrior, this giant overeight feet tall, going on the
battlefield and waiting forsomebody to meet with him to
fight, and the Israelites, allof them, go, not me.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
For quite a long time too, Forquite long time too, I mean.
That wasn't, I think, one ofthe things that people don't
know.
I think there's two things thatare important context at this
point is.
One of them is that he didn'tcome out and go hey, bring your
first guy who says yes to me andcome out.
He was there for like 40 daysbefore anything happened, and
we'll get to that story, I think.
But this was like an ongoingsituation.
But also, I think I had thequestion at one point of why
(03:26):
would one person beating anotherarmy be the end of the war?
Right, and this was actually akind of an ancient tactic was,
instead of having all of yourmen fight against all of your
men and killing unnecessarily alot of people, there became this
war scenario in which theywould say I'm going to bring my
best guy, you bring your bestguy, and whoever wins between
those two, we skip the battleand we're going to call it a win
(03:47):
.
So that's kind of what wasgoing on here too, right,
Absolutely, it was definitelyhappening here.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And their best guy, this Philistine, was immense.
It's scary looking somebody whoyou look at and you go.
I don't want to fight this guy.
I don't want anything to dowith.
I start thinking of some of thebiggest people that I've met or
known, some of the world'sstrongest men, and if you add an
additional two and a half threefeet to them and then put them
(04:13):
in armor, what would that looklike to me?
And I'm going, yeah, I'm goingto, I'm going to pass on this.
I don't know if I necessarilywant to go out there and risk my
life, but knowing I'm gonnalose anyway, pick me, I'll go
out there.
Yeah, he did.
Yeah, and this is a.
He was overlooked by his family.
David was a boy.
He was not of big stature, infact, he was small stature,
(04:35):
couldn't, couldn't even don hisown armor, and he was overlooked
by his family.
So now he has all of thisbehind him, and I say this
because a lot of times when weface our giants, it's the past,
it's our history that adds intothat fight where we're going.
I'm not good enough, I'm notbig enough, I'm not something
enough, because life has taughtme that.
(04:56):
And and he has all of that.
That's why it's set up this way, because he is feeling the
weight of him being inadequateto be on a battlefield with
goliath.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But he had something goliath did not have they had
the lord yes, and he had, and hehad faith in that lord right
and he, he believed that hecould win, not on his own merit
but on the faith and trust andbelief in God, and that you know
that ultimately is the turningpoint.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So here's.
Here's two things I want totalk about real quick.
One is probably going to takethe majority of the conversation
, because I was alwaysfascinated by this and I'm
curious about your point ofviews, guys.
And then another one is adifferent take on the story and
it's really funny because theother day, while I was preparing
for this, jason had sent me aclip to hey, go look at this.
(05:52):
It is, if you look at JohnnyLawrence as the good guy and
Daniel LaRusso as the bad guyand Saved by the Bell, the same
thing Zach Morris as the bad guy.
It's a different way to look atthe same story, and I actually
have one of those for David andGoliath, so I want to bring that
up again.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I can't wait to hear that.
I'm thrilled to hear that.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But the first question I have is you have
David who is now.
He has volunteered to fightGoliath and when he goes onto
the battlefield he reaches downwith all the faith of the Lord,
having the heart after God, andhe picks up five stones instead
of the one that he would need tokill Goliath.
So, hey, I have the faith God'sgot me.
(06:35):
He's bringing me through this.
There's one guy I'm great witha slingshot, I'm grabbing a
stone and hitting him and hegrabbed five.
Yeah, why do you guys think hegrabbed five?
Do you think this was a lack offaith?
What was going?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
on here, javi, why don't you go first?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
For me you've told me this before, David, and I think
most people don't know hegrabbed five.
How about that?
I didn't know he grabbed fiveand I I was trying to look back.
Where did it say that?
Because I think initially whenyou read the Goliath story, it
says a stone.
He took one stone and that onestone knocked him out, so you
(07:14):
figured he only had one in hisbag.
But yeah, I just never thoughtI have to say that.
Why he has five?
Because he usually carriesaround with multiple stones to
fight off lions, like he has inthe past to fight off other
animals for his flock, a flockof sheep, because he was a
shepherd.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, and I think that if you look at that time in
warfare and he would have beenconsidered in the military ranks
a slinger that's what theycalled them.
Slingers had the bags and whatthey would have is multiple
stones in their bags or whateverwould have happened.
The only reason I say you knowthat this was different is he
didn't have his bag alreadyfilled.
(07:53):
He chose to pick up five, andthere are a couple of different
versions of why there aredifferent people who've talked
about this, for you know quite along time and you know you're
right is as a slinger, you wouldpick up multiple stones, so
you're always prepared.
I've also heard it, as Ialready kind of let it out, that
(08:13):
there are people who feel likemaybe there was, he had the
faith, but he also had doubt,and man does.
That hit home for a lot of usbelievers.
And then there is Goliath'sfamily.
Hey, he had four brothers.
Let's stay there for a second.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
You can stay there for a second.
I think you can stay there fora second right.
Talking about doubt and facingoppositions like this, right, I
mean, david, this littleshepherd, against this eight
foot tall giant, of courseyou're going to have some doubt.
I think he walked into thisbattlefield knowing that the
Lord was behind him.
I mean, he had to convince Saulto let him in so he was ready
(08:48):
to go into battle, and againstthis big Goliath.
Right, his giants, right,that's where the term comes from
.
Right, you're going to havesome kind of fear to go into
this.
Your life is on the line, right.
But he did have confidence thatthe Lord was with him, walking
into it and being prepared tofight this giant.
And having five is almostsaying like I'm going to kill
(09:10):
you for sure.
He didn't know he was going tobe one.
The Lord didn't say, hey, justtake one stone and you're going
to kill him.
And then he took five.
You know that's doubt to me.
So I don't think he doubted,but that's my take.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
What do you think, jason?
I totally agree, I think I.
I think it's when you read it,you know he says I'm gonna do.
He's the one that comes to sauland says the lord's gonna
deliver this, I've any.
And he convinces him I, Ikilled a lion, saving the sheep.
I killed a bear saving thesheep which, by the way, all
that stuff is also, you know,kind of a predicate to j coming
(09:45):
too right.
So, but David says I, you know,I've done these things before.
Yes, he's, you know, six cubitsand a span tall, but so is a
bear and I've taken care of that.
So he says he can.
Then he, it does say he reachesfor five stones out of the
stream bed and he moves on andlook, knowing you're going to be
delivered from something, orknowing that God is going to do
(10:07):
it, doesn't mean that it's goingto be on the first shot.
It doesn't mean that God'sgoing to make the next step easy
.
It doesn't mean that you knowDavid had no idea how it was
going to go.
So I think it's important justto remember, like, even if
you're being called to dosomething and you feel confident
about it, doesn't mean it'sgoing to be easy.
That's what this story teachesme.
It doesn't mean it's going to beeasy.
It doesn't mean you shouldn'tbe prepared.
(10:28):
You don't get to walk into itand go.
You don't get to walk into andgo.
Well, god's going to deliver.
I don't.
I'm not even going to take anyanything with me.
No, no, no, no, because if thegiant doesn't fall the first
time, you got more chances.
So that's what I found, and Ialso think it adds a humanity to
David, because if David walkedin with that amount of cockiness
(10:49):
and a single stone, we wouldall have been like I don't
relate to that.
I don't understand what it islike to have that kind of faith.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, I think it's important that it is there.
I'm glad you brought it up,david.
I think it's important that itis there to have that.
He walked into it with fivestones.
You know, like he was confidentand I think it says here in 1
Samuel, 17, 45 to 46, it saysthis day the Lord will deliver
you into my hands.
This day, like I'm going to getyou Today.
(11:17):
I don't know if it's going tobe one stone, maybe four, maybe
the third one will get you, butI'm going to get you and I will
strike you down and cut off yourhead.
I am confident in that becausethe Lord is with me and that's
what he feels like.
You know, as he feels like theLord was with him, I'm going to
get you, this guy, somehow, someway, and I'm going to cut off
your head.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, before we end this, can we talk about the fact
that David, like some of thelines he says, he's poetic man,
but he's poetic but you canrelate to that jason.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
You can relate he's, he's, he's a poet he's a writer.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
He's a writer, you know like yeah, but like you
read some of these, some ofthese lines that david had to
say when he like to golidirectly, you got this little
dude talking to Goliath and hedrops some epic talk back.
It's nuts.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, yeah, there's something to be learned there, I
think.
Like I said, having confidencein the Lord For us all, even now
, to this day, when the Lordputs something in your heart,
just walk through it withconfidence.
You'll be scared, your palmswill be a little sweaty, but
just walk through it withconfidence, knowing that the
Lord will deliver you and yourarms will be a little heavy.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Mom's spaghetti, it's going to happen, so look.
David, your five stones thingis awesome though.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I can't let you not get to your five stones.
I just want to.
I want to.
Actually, you know, one of thethings that you guys both said
and it's interesting becausepeople do struggle with this is
faith and preparation together,that a lot of people think that
they go opposites, but reallythey're hand in hand.
So a lot of people think if Ihave faith, then God will do.
And part of it is movement andpreparation, and both of you
said that separately.
Nehemiah 4.9 and then Proverbs21.31 talks about that exactly,
(13:03):
about being prepared, but alsoGod is there.
So, knowing that, yes, I thinkDavid did know that God was
there.
Maybe the five stones waspreparation.
What's interesting is I havealways taken the route of maybe
David was a little bit doubtful,and that makes me feel good
about doubting God sometimes,for sure, but also, being
(13:24):
somebody from a Jewish descent,you know five symbolically means
grace, and when I'm looking atit I'm going.
Grace is what saved David andconquered Goliath on the
battlefield.
It was grace, it wasn'tstrength, it wasn't his ability
to fight, it was God's grace, sograce.
So for me I'm going.
(13:45):
He picked up five exact stonesand we're told five exactly,
because to me it's symbolically,that means grace and that's
what god used.
That's beautiful.
So but there are also just togive the other one, people do
say that, hey, goliath had afamily, four older siblings, and
you know, and it would havebeen Goliath and the four
siblings and that's why the fivestones.
(14:07):
So just to make sure I completewhat people argue about, that's
one of the arguments that comein.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And you've said before that some people think
that because he was so large, hewas one of the Nephilim.
Nephilim I don't know how yousay that word and there was five
in total is what the?
I think it was a midrashylearning and so the idea that he
picked up five is actually like, uh, it's almost like an easter
egg.
To say goliath was nephilim andhe had four brothers, like I
(14:36):
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I like who knows if that's true, but I I, when you
first time you said that, I hada little bit of the mind-blown
reaction yeah, no, absolutely,and I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring
my second point in the, and thenwe're going to talk about kind
of how, what it means for today,what this means for our giants.
But just here's my hot take ondavid and goliath.
If you look at the wording used, goliath was led to the
(15:03):
battlefield.
When he's in the battlefieldand david is far away, walking
towards him, he said who is thisguy who is carrying sticks
plural.
Meanwhile he only had one stick.
It was his shepherd staff, thathe had.
Am I a dog?
You also have a giant, you.
You have this giant who is outthere, who apparently can't see
(15:26):
well, who has to be led to thebattlefield.
And there has been medicalresearch done saying that he
might have had a disease, a, atumor on his brain, which we
know causes people to be giantsand also some of the side
effects of having that type oftumor is double vision, blurred
(15:47):
vision.
He has multiple sticks versusone.
Um, so now we're looking atpossibly goliath, who was not
well, who, who had to.
He was huge, but this wassomebody who actually had a
tumor on his brain being walkeddown to the battlefield.
I I know it's a hot take, butit's just one that I wanted to
bring out there.
Do you know where I firstlearned about that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I like the idea of thinking about that in the sense
of when we look at ouroppositions, like we see this
giant and we don't know thathe's crippled, he's kind of he
can't even see me.
You know, he just looksgigantic, he's big, but he has
no strength, right.
He's barking, but he has noskills, right.
So we would run away with ourtail between our legs, kind of
(16:33):
thing, because we think thisgiant is going to kill me
without knowing that he has atumor, he has something going on
and.
I think when we look at our lifenow, when things are happening,
like God said, move forward inthis.
Have confidence in that,because you don't know what's
going to happen.
Maybe that wall will tumbledown, you know referring back to
(16:53):
Jericho and the wall right Like, maybe the giant will fall
easily by one stone, because youknow I am with you.
Don't worry about that.
You don't know what's happeningon that opposite end of that.
You don't know what's going tohappen on the other side of that
bridge.
Once I take you over thatbridge, you know it could be an
easy defeat.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I mean just to reword what you're saying too, to see
if I'm understanding is you'resaying that from the outside it
looks huge, it looks terrifyingand scary and I make it into a
big monster, when reality he waskind of a marshmallow and you
know.
But I didn't know.
But if I allow my senses toreact to what I'm looking at,
(17:32):
it's a big, huge monster, but inreality I'm the one who've
overhyped it.
Is that what you're kind ofgetting at?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, we make this big thing in our head about what
these monsters are or thesewhatever we're trying to
overcome and not knowing thatthe God of all.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Knows all and knows that it's a marshmallow saying
hey you don't overcome this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I got you, I am with you.
This is small, this is nothingto me, so I got you.
I'm with you.
This is small, this is nothingto me, so I got you with that.
Or you didn't even know what'shappening with that, and that
happens to me many times andfighting my fears and fighting
my risk you know taking risksand stuff like that I started
seeing that wait a minute, it'snot that bad, it's not that.
You know, it only hurt a littlebit.
You know it was nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It looks scary, but it's not all that scary.
The first time I ever read thatwas actually in Malcolm
Gladwell's book I think it'scalled David and Goliath
actually and it starts with thatwhole thing.
So yeah, yeah, it's in thebeginning of that book, but he
talks about the fact thatthere's a pituitary gland or I
think it's pituitary tumor orsomething, and that he literally
was seeing double which is laidout.
He's extremely oversized, youknow, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(18:35):
Anyway, I thought that was acool little, a cool little touch
.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and, and you know, when you start to compare
it, like you said, javi, to ourgiants that we see today, and
our giants seem completely fitand dominant and we can't get
past the size of them, and thenyou realize that there might be
something wrong with them.
There might be somethingsmaller about our giants that we
didn't realize.
The other thing and I believethis also comes from gladwell he
(19:00):
talks about the, the slingshotitself and the combat
orientation and typically, youknow, goliath came out with a
big shield and a and big armorand a big sword and he's ready
for hand-to-hand combat.
And here you have david who welook at just the size of him,
but we realize that again, he'sa slinger.
(19:21):
He is somebody who is fightingfrom a distance incredibly
accurate.
I believe that they've measuredthat type of force it would be
35 meters per second, with therock being thrown, similar to
almost a 22 being shot with.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So now you have this have you ever seen videos?
Have you ever seen?
Videos of people who actuallyknow what they're doing, doing
this, Like when I was a kid, Iused to think, oh, it's like a
slingshot, and how did hepossibly shoot that thing at
that?
And you're thinking like dink,like it just hits his head and
like falls off.
But you actually see a video ofsomebody who knows what they're
doing and they're throwing thisthing almost the speed of a
(19:58):
real bullet.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And there for me it's like it's the leaning on your
own strengths right, and reallylooking at Goliath from far,
let's say right, as ahypothetical right.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, in this story, yes, Well, your gifts right,
your gifts, not your strengths,right, right, right Looking at
it from far, I go.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
How can I use my strength to take this guy down?
Look at it from God and go.
How can I use my strength totake this guy down, right?
So how can I use my strength toovercome my giants?
Right, and it's all that.
And I think God is so good.
He knows how to use what you'regood at, or use that stuff that
you have in your bag right Perse, like the kids say now right.
Yeah, totally the stuff that youhave in your bag, like to use
(20:35):
it to overcome oppositions, andI love that the story has so
many layers to it, which is whywe're obviously discussing it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
That's a really interesting angle too, Javi.
I hadn't thought about that.
I mean, it's like there's ahundred ways he could have
delivered him, but he does it inthe ways of he could have went
out and fought him with sword tosword, combat right.
He would have been destroyed andstill beat him, because God
could have done that.
But that's not the way Godworks.
God says what are you good at?
What is your gift?
What have I gifted you?
(21:02):
And that's the way and I thinkit's also just a notification to
people to say look, david.
Everybody else said David puton this armor.
Everybody else said take thissword.
And David said this isn't forme.
So sometimes you've got to doit your way.
I mean, if God tells you it'sgoing to happen, you have to
(21:22):
trust.
Then you have to trust thatGod's telling you the right way,
and then you have to trustyourself that you're doing it in
the way that you know best howto.
So again, this story is justlike everything.
It's just so full right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, love it.
You know, there is when I lookat the story and I start to
realize what that means, becauseevery time we look at a story
like this, we're going, allright, this is great, it
happened then.
Even if I believe, don'tbelieve it's symbolic, it's not,
it's still something that is3,000, 3,500 years old.
What does that mean for metoday?
And I look at that and I go,okay, we talked about maybe your
(21:52):
giant is not as big as we think.
But when I look at, like facingyour giants, the first thing
that I think of is to name yourgiant.
This isn't just hey, there's agiant and I have to slay him.
It was.
This is Goliath.
This is a giant with a name.
I've named it.
(22:13):
So maybe it's fear, it'saddiction, it's shame.
You have to name your giantbefore you're able to slay it,
before you're able to combat it.
I think that's really the firstone.
The second one is rememberingthat God is faithful in your
life.
You guys just said it David wasnever trained in the army, he
(22:33):
was trained as a shepherd and inthat training as a shepherd, he
had to learn how to use aslingshot to protect his flock.
So God's faithfulness was allover his life, not necessarily
him.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Hey, in order to protect, I have to join the army
, and all that I wanted tomention, too, david, and I think
sometimes when we read thesestories, you go you know what I
am, david, and I could overcomethe big bully at high school,
kind of thing right.
And we have to remember thatthis story, that's David's story
(23:07):
and God used David in that way.
Now, can we learn from that?
Can we learn from God'scharacter?
Can we learn from David's storyhow he approached Goliath?
Yes, and that's what we'redoing today.
I think we're approaching thatin that kind of way.
So I just wanted to mentionthat it's small.
I think it's just a small thingfor us to know when we're
reading these stories and theOld Testament is full of it.
It's full of these incrediblestories with God doing
(23:29):
incredible things, and we haveto understand that that's what
happened to those individuals.
Now can we learn from that and,moving forward, of God's
character, of course, just tocatch up.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It's how to face your own giants.
The first was to name yourgiant.
If it's fear, addiction, shameto name it, because Goliath had
a name, it wasn't just hey,there was some giant out there,
so we want to name our giants.
The second was to rememberGod's faithfulness through your
life, and that was hey, davidwasn't a trained army guy
through your life, and that washey, david wasn't a trained army
(24:00):
guy, he was a trained shepherdand God used his life.
We just talked about that.
And then one that the next onethat I have on my list is one
that you actually mentioned,jason again, without even
knowing that this was on my listwhich was don't use somebody
else's armor, don't use somebodyelse's work with God, because
you have your own story, youhave your own giftings, you have
your own, and so, and then thelast thing is is running towards
(24:21):
your giant, and I think this isthe one that almost everybody
gets held up on.
Almost everybody has the issuewith is kind of like all right,
great, I've identified my giant.
It took me a little while andI'm not going to use somebody
else's plan and I do trust God,and I'm still terrified because
there's this giant in the middleof the field and I don't want
to go up to him and I think it'sthe fear of that giant instead
(24:43):
of running towards it, and Ithink that's the the very last
part that we're supposed tolearn from this story.
That David did, which was heran with all of that, he still
said you know what?
I'm running towards the giant.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Glad you said that I I can relate.
I think you know I'm runningtowards the giant.
Glad you said that I can relate.
I think we speak about that allthe time.
David and the stuff that Ihesitate to take a step forward
and want to approach and do andI make it out to be this big
Goliath, this big scary thing,and I don't know, it's just like
a hold that's.
(25:18):
Maybe it's the armor that'sweighing me down right when Saul
puts that armor on David.
Maybe that's what it is.
It's the armor that's holdingme down and I need to take it
off and just trust the Lord thathe will see me through it, that
whatever I do face that he willhelp me to overcome it.
And I don't know, I can relateto it.
(25:39):
I can relate to exactly that,and I think a lot of people do,
about facing and running towardsGoliath.
I mean, the first thing youwould do is not run towards
Goliath.
You would let me figure out aplan, let me sit down and think
about it and then wait more than40 days to attack this guy.
You know, or you know what.
I'll just quit and just stayright here or let him kill me or
maybe turn away Like you wouldnot like most people I feel like
(26:02):
would not run towards Goliath.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's not a thing you would do.
No, listen.
We see it in the story hundredsof thousands of Israelites
standing on the battlefield andall of them are saying not me.
And I think that that's reallyimportant for our lives to say
listen, think that that's reallyimportant for our lives, to say
listen, we understand how scaryit is, but you have to run
(26:27):
towards it.
And David didn't do it withhimself and he also didn't allow
God to do it with him.
He did it in collaboration, hedid it in relationship with the
Lord, and I think that that'sthe really important part.
Where you go, sometimes we goall right, I'm going to face
this, I got this, I'm going togo forward, and you do it and
you go.
Man, that was brutal, that wasawful, and it's because you
forgot the God part.
And then other people go allright, god go, take care of that
for me, and they wait and theykeep waiting and it's not
(26:49):
getting fixed and they're going.
Well, that didn't work either.
It really isn't the combinationof both that, honestly, you're
able to face giants and conquergiants, that's good.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
That's one thing I always say is I love that you
said that that's a nice lineconquering your giants.
One thing I always tell peopleit's you know cause I've done
both.
I've stayed there and not movedforward in what maybe God's
calling me to do.
Or I feel like Goliath is veryscary I can't approach that, you
that.
But I also have seen God'sglory on the opposite side of
(27:22):
running towards my Goliath forhypothetical.
And then one thing I always tellpeople is God is only going to
show you one or two stepsforward and you got to trust him
in taking that first step.
And then he's going to lead youand take the next two steps and
then maybe it might be going tothe other side and taking that
(27:42):
step to the side, but he's goingto show you the step by step.
He's not going to show you like, hey, you're going to conquer
this giant, he's going to fall,you're going to chop his head
off and then you're going to bethis big, great king.
He did not think he was goingto bring King David and we
haven't gotten there yet.
But, like you know and I thinkthat's what it is we have to
trust the fact that, god, I'mgoing to walk together with you,
(28:03):
hand by hand.
Take this first step, beconfident in that, and wherever
it goes, it's going to go.
And then the next step, I'mgoing to do the same thing.
So, coming together in unitywith God.
I love that.
You said that, david.
That's exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, and the what's really cool is the very last
thing that happens, because welook at David and Goliath and
sometimes we see the first partof the clip which is, you know,
david hits him the slingshot andhe wins and it's you know, it's
wonderful and and all of that,but what happens afterwards is
he actually runs up, takes thesword and cuts Goliath's head
off.
And I really think that'sbeautiful and symbolic as well
(28:38):
for us facing our fears, becausesometimes we will dip a toe
into the fear, into the fear.
I'm gonna throw a rock fromhere and then, if it knocks him
down, great, but maybe he wasjust unconscious.
What david did after that wasI'm still now gonna run right up
to him, I'm gonna go face toface with the giant and to cut
his head off to end it for good,so I know I don't have to have
(29:01):
this fear again.
I think this, the symbology ofthat is so beautiful, of with
our fears, it's not justknocking it with a rock, it's
making sure that it is reallydead, and I think that that's
the most important thing.
Actually, with jason here, I'mhoping, because I think this is
right right up his alley, what Ijust said.
So you want to repeat it?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So, jason, you know one of the things I look this is
right right up his alley, whatI just said, so you want to
repeat it?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
yeah yeah, so, jason, you know, one of the things I
look at is not only to theboundless bible my name is david
, with a rock in the head, butafterwards david runs up and
cuts his head off with the sword.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
yes, and when I look at fears, I'm going that how
often do we hit a fear from faraway, going, all right, I'm just
going to throw a rock at it andand see what happens?
But David actually ran straightup face to face with the giant.
At that point the giant couldhave just been knocked out and
woke up, who knows.
But he ran right up and madesure this fear, this giant, is
(29:54):
going to be done and I love thesymbology of that.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I do too.
I mean, I love the fact that hedid what he came to do.
He made sure he finished thejob, and then he used the
finishing of that job latertowards the other rule.
You know, he said, look, I didthis, and I did it because of my
God, and so he used it as atestimony as well as using it as
a, you know, proof point.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, yeah, I love it .
This is such a great story ofconquering and conquest and
facing your fears, and I thinkthat sometimes what we do is we
look at it just as this clicheof hey we're, you know David and
Goliath, this is the underdogstory.
This is used all it's almostlike the word love.
It's used so much you sometimeslose the meaning of what this
(30:43):
is.
You forget about it.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, yeah, the other thing that's never talked about
too.
I mean, you brought up theGoliath.
Maybe wasn't all their story,but what about the story of Saul
in this?
I mean, the story of Saul inthis is ultra important.
He was anointed by God, he wasthe chosen one, so to speak.
Right?
I mean, the Israelites had saidwe want a king, we want a king,
(31:04):
we want a king.
And God said no, you should nothave a king, you should not
have a king, this is not goodfor you.
And they continued to say wewant a king.
And so he said fine, I'll giveyou a king.
First of all, I think that's aninteresting enough story, right,
the fact that you know if Godhas enough love for us to say if
you're going to be thisobstinate, eventually you're
going to get what you want.
(31:25):
But here's what it's going tobe, and it's going to end up
being Saul.
So he anointed Saul.
Saul was the anointed one andhe began to do bad things.
Even though he was anointed, hebegan to do bad things and he
ultimately lost his mind for itand he lost his position and his
anointing and all those things.
So I think that it's importantto remember that David rose
(31:45):
because of his faith.
Saul descended because of hislack of faith, and I know that
we like to talk a lot about thefact that we're always once, we
love God, we're always in a goodplace, but there's a lot of
like.
You need, look, you need tolive up to that faith.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You need to live up to it or else.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Right, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
No, no, I'm sorry to cut you off.
It's just like I was so excitedabout that because you brought
up Saul and I just feel likethere's a lot there from his
descent, right, from him beingthe anointing taken away from
him, right, like his spirit wastaken away.
It said right and totally hehad like these bad spirits and
they.
That's the reason why evendavid came to his court to kind
of, you know, to make him feelbetter, because everything was
(32:30):
taken away from him and whatI've, what I've gotten from saul
, which was very interesting infirst samuel, 15, 11, and it
jumps over to 22 and 23.
It talked, you know, to me.
What I got out of.
It was saul disobeyed god andwhat god was saying is like
sacrifice.
He was trying to sacrificeanimals and that's why god felt
(32:52):
like you're disobeying me, you.
The disobeying god is worsethan sacrifice and I think
sometimes people go hey, I didwrong, hey, wrong.
Hey, I'm sorry God, but you knewalready.
God already told you not to dothat and you still did it.
That disobeying is worse thansacrifice.
And it says here, it goes in 1Samuel 15, 11,.
It goes I regret that I hadmade Saul king, which is weird,
(33:16):
because God regretted it,because he has turned away from
me and he has not carried out myinstructions.
And then it jumps over and goesdoes samuel replied?
Does the lord delight in burnoffering and sacrifices, as much
as in this, as much?
as in obedience in obeying thelord to obey is better than
sacrifice, and that's what hesays and I I think that's key,
(33:38):
that's key for a lot of us toknow that you know, when god's
calling you to do something andI've been there before don't
disobey him.
It's better than sacrifice.
It obeying the heart of God.
They weren't obeying thegoodness of God.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
They weren't obeying in those ways, and that's why he
said you know, you'rewhitewashed tombs, you're dead
(34:13):
on the inside and yet you lookbeautiful on the outside.
And so it was anothercondemnation of ritual over
expression.
And this is what happened toSaul too, and you know a totally
different episode.
But you know, david ends upbecoming unfaithful later and he
doesn't lose the favor of God,and so maybe that's the good
cliffhanger to leave this on sowe can have a David episode
(34:33):
later.
But you know, this is thedifference Saul loses his favor
and he loses it because you knowhe loses it because he doesn't
obey, and David screws up but hestill obeys, and that's a
really small detail.
But again, that's for anotherepisode.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, and I also think when you look at Saul,
when you guys bring that up, youguys are going really deep into
how he lost the anointing.
I look at Saul and what I thinkof is, hey, we just talked
about hundreds of thousands ofIsraelites that didn't want to
move forward and fight Goliath,and I'm saying, well, because
their anointed one, if you'regoing to believe in God, the one
who got anointed, he wasterrified, he wasn't going
(35:12):
forward, he didn't have thefaith anymore.
And I think, seeing that you'regoing wait a minute, if you're
the anointed one and you'rescared, what does that mean for
me?
Where David then had all ofthis faith and came forward, and
I think that really speaks alsoto us.
In fear, where we go, who's thatperson who we really look up to
, and we go, wait a minute ifyou're afraid that I need to be,
(35:34):
and David's like, no, I don't,I have God.
He's much bigger than the fear.
He's much bigger than even my.
The person I look up to, theperson who's taught me, the
person who's been there for me,he's even bigger than that
person and that's sometimes thatthat's breaking the chains of
of your family's history.
That's breaking the chains, thebonds of, I mean man, it's just
(35:56):
, it's so filled with just asymbolic, wonderful story of
defeat Anytime I hear about it.
Like I said, I've never thoughtabout it that way and now you
guys mentioned I'm going howbeautiful is that?
The fact that Saul alsorepresents that as well.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, yeah.
We need a David in our life, Ithink, and sometimes when things
are going wrong or bad I'm here, I need a David.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I need a David in my life.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
I always need David.
I need David.
I should be a hero, but we allneed a David in our life.
I feel like what you were sayingright now David is.
David represents theencouragement, the hope of
things.
Sometimes when things lookingdesolate, right, or you lose
somebody in your life, havingthat somebody around you that's
encouraging, that knows, hey,the Lord is with us, you'll be
(36:44):
able to overcome this.
We all need that and I thinkDavid was that.
And this terrible time of Saulwas withered away, he was losing
his mind.
The whole Israelites werescared of this big guy.
It was 40 days of them in fearand David was like, no, I'm good
, I got this.
Days of them in fear.
And David was like, no, I'mgood, I got this, I got this for
(37:05):
our greater good, for our tribe, our culture right, and we all
need somebody like that.
And I think if you are that,and sometimes in a troubled time
, I think step forward, stepforward in confidence in God and
to give hope to others andstuff.
So that's what I heard you say,david, and I think that's I see
that in that story.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
That sounds good.
If I said that, go for it.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So, guys, like I said , this is always enlightening.
Especially, I love these OldTestament stories, or, even more
so, the ones that everybodyknows.
You know, david and Goliath isone of those stories that
everybody, even you know.
Secular people know the storyof David and Goliath, but they
don't really sit and understandthe depths of it.
They don't know the context,the history, the whys, the so
(37:48):
forth and so on.
I think it's so valuable to beable to do that, so this has
been fun.
There's so much more to talkabout David, though, but that'll
be another day.
So, guys, thank you for yourtime.
Thank you for your consistentlistening.
We appreciate your likes,comments, shares.
We love your reviews on any ofyour listening platforms and we
hope that we get some greatfeedback from you soon.
We'll talk to you next time.
(38:09):
Thank you, have a blessed week,see you.
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