Ep. 18 - A call to pivot and the life giving truth of an un-changing God. - The Bowtreader Podcast

Episode Transcript
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JOHN (00:07):
Hey guys, John with the bow trader podcast here.
Wanted to thank you for joiningus on the podcast.
We are starting off a brand newseason, the 2025 podcast
recording season.
Uh, we're going to be droppingepisodes on a more regular
basis.
We're excited to get this backgoing again, and it's going to
be much the same as what we'vedone in the past.

(00:28):
We're going to be talking aboutArchery hunting.
We're going to be talking aboutshooting bows, setting up new
equipment.
We're going to be talking aboutwhat it's like getting out in
the field, how to interact withothers.
Interacting with God in ourvertical relationship with Him,
the creator of the universe thatwants to have a relationship
with each one of us.
So those are the things we'regoing to be talking about.

(00:49):
We're excited that you'rejoining us.
Exciting that you're, thatyou're listening.
Uh, we want you to, to share,share your feedback with us.
Let us know what you want tohear, what topics you want us to
cover.
And we're just super excitedthat we get to share this time
with you.
So buckle up, enjoy the rideAnother cool morning.

(01:13):
It's going to be a beautifulday.
It's what it's looking likeoutside.
We've actually had a winter.
We have had a winter.
We have had a winter.
There is no doubt about that.
All right, guys.
Well, welcome back to the bowtrader podcast.
So, uh, you got John here and wegot Brandon with us again this
morning.
And, uh, Brandon, say goodmorning, everybody.

(01:33):
Good morning.
See there.
It's good to be here, man.
Right on cue.
Right on cue again.
I love it.
I love it.
All right, guys.
So, we're gonna, we're gonnatalk about lessons from the
season.
You know, we talked a little bitabout our season last time.
And, uh, we wanna go into somelessons that we learned from the
season this year.
And, you know, kind of what itlooks like to, to make changes

(01:56):
when you realize that you needto make changes with what you're
doing.
Uh, Brandon and I talked alittle bit about this kind of
leading up to our, our, uh,conversation, just kind of
chatting this morning and, um,how hardheaded we can be about
making changes sometimes and howthat shows up in all areas of

(02:19):
life, but we're going to, we'regoing to talk about, we're going
to, you know, kind of start outtalking about, Um, what that
looks like from a huntingperspective.
Uh, so Brandon, you had somestories about that.
I wanted you to share that thismorning.

BRANDON (02:31):
Oh yeah.
Well, it's, it just shows mystubbornness and I'm sure some
of our, um, stubbornness, um,other people.
I don't, I know men aren'ttypically stubborn, but, um, not
men and we would never becreatures of habit.
Right.
Um, but, but one of the thingsthat hit me, uh, and hit me too
late this year was that whenthings were not going great with

(02:57):
the season and the deer were notdoing the typical things that
they have done in the past ishistorical patterns weren't the
same because of trees that.
You know, or, or down fromhurricanes.
And we talked about some of theweather events last time, but
obviously changed patterns,changed things they were doing.

(03:18):
And what I realized and what Ilearned this year is the
important of adjustability, likebeing able to make adjustments
quickly to what the deer aredoing or aren't doing.
But what I found was, I justkind of kept doing the same
thing I've always done.
Yep.
You know, um, trying to hunt thesame way I'd always hunted, even

(03:42):
though it wasn't working, I justkept trying.
I kept thinking, well,eventually it'll work.
And, you know, pretty soonyou're three quarters of the way
through the season and you go,you know what, this isn't
working.
And I think that that'ssomething that I learned that
was a really good lesson is whenyou realize that it's not

(04:02):
working, try something else.
You may not know exactly what todo.
But what you're doing is notworking.
I think, you know, we've allheard this, the definition of
insanity is, uh, doing the samething over and over again,
expecting a different result.
And I think my hunting this yearcould have been described as
insanity.
It literally almost drove meinsane.

JOHN (04:24):
Yeah.

BRANDON (04:24):
Um, but being able to make that adjustment, I know I
told you the analogy of.
Um, baseball and, and the higherlevel I went in baseball, I
didn't make it past college.
Uh, it wasn't very good, uh,once I got to college at that
level, but it became more andmore important to make

(04:45):
adjustments quickly in hitting,you know, you, you went from
being able to have the time tomake adjustments, um, maybe from
week to week, even to, I need tomake these adjustments.
in the at bat, I need to realizewhat this picture's doing now.
And so for me, one of the thingsI learned was be flexible, be

(05:09):
adjustable.
Don't just stick to what you'vealways done.
Don't just think that somehowthe deer are going to do what
you want them to do or whatthey've always done, but be able
to Go figure out what they'redoing.
You know, something that I thinkI got caught up into is once the
season came in, I'd done somescouting, I'd made some plans,

(05:34):
uh, had some strategy.
And once the season came in, Iwanted to hunt.
And sometimes I think it's somuch better to take time again,
to reevaluate, to go back, scoutmore, take some, even though
like you want to be in a tree.
But figure out what the deer aredoing because I think we feel

(05:58):
like we have ideas and it worksto some degree of how to
manipulate their behavior whenreally, if we're going to be
successful, what I learned thisyear is we're going to have to
figure out their behavior andrealign ourselves to that versus
thinking that we're going tosomehow fail.

(06:19):
Uh, with a corn pile, make themdo what we want them to do,
especially a mature buck.
And in a year like this yearwhere there was plenty of food
without having to come to a cornpile.

JOHN (06:30):
Yeah.
I'll tell you what, man, therewas a, uh, we were, we were
going to have a good, uh, a goodacorn crop this year,
regardless.
Yeah.
And then because of thosestorms, it all hit the ground at
the same time.
Yes.
And we had that happen a couple,uh, maybe three years ago.
So we, we had.
Um, we had some pretty, prettyrough drought conditions and

(06:55):
then we got some rain, um, youknow, like the second week of
the season, right?
And then all of a suddeneverything dropped.

BRANDON (07:03):
Yeah.

JOHN (07:03):
And I remember calling some forestry friends of mine, I
was like, man, what's going on?
And they said, you know, justthe trees going through this
stress.
Right of the season.
It's it's normal to seesomething like this.
You know, nothing's going wrong.
All your trees are not about thedye or anything.
I mean, I was freaked out by it.
Yeah, we had we had Um, justthese crazy, we had red, we had

(07:27):
red oaks and white oaks droppingat the same time, and we still
had persimmon hanging on thetree.
Wow.
And that is not normal.
Yeah, that's crazy.
That's what alarmed me one daywas I was out hunting in it.
And, and I saw that and I waslike, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait.
It's September.
What's going on, Yeah.
Why are the, why are the a,sorry, you know?
And then, and then it was like,um, and then we did have, you

(07:47):
know, a later wide oak.
Uh, drop, which was normal, youknow, it's normal for us to see
that, you know, like an Octobertimeframe where there's really
big white oaks will startdropping.
And uh, but yeah, that was, thatwas interesting, but I can't
tell you how many folks we'vehad coming in the shop this
year, just talking about, um,man, I'm not getting, I'm not

(08:09):
getting pictures anymore.
Cause it's, it's, it happenedwith us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was, I think a big partof that was.
The deer's habitat changed, youknow, we had this cameras where
we normally have this cameras,you know, cause we, we ran
cameras all the time.
My son is like, he, he.
He loves it.
He loves getting pictures allthe time.

(08:30):
Yeah.
And, um, so we've got him outthere year round.
And it's rare that we go andmove the camera.
And we learned this year that,hey, we, we, we got to move some
stuff.
Cause we know the deer are here.
That's right.
You know, but where in the worldhad they gone?
And, um, last weekend I had aguy come in and he just said,

(08:51):
he, he blamed it on baiting.
And, you know, I think thatthere is some validity to that.
Um, obviously I, I don't knowwhere he hunts.
I don't, you know, we, we get totalk with people about all kinds
of stuff, but we don't reallygetting into real good details
about, you know, it's not likethey're dropping us a pin and
saying, Hey, look at this withme or anything like that.
You know, I, I do get theopportunity to do that

(09:11):
sometimes.
And, and we'll, we'll probablytalk about that a little bit,
but, um, I think this year wealmost needed to look at all of
our hunting properties as thoughit was brand new property that
we'd never hunted before.
Because in so many ways it was.
You know, I've got, um, Ethan, acollege guy that works for us.

(09:33):
He, um, He harvested his target,but Sunday after Sunday morning
and I need to talk to him aboutthat.
He was supposed to be at church,but, uh, he went to the 11th
anyway.
So he, he, uh, he went Sundaymorning and he got this bug that
he's been watching since it wasin velvet.

(09:53):
Like he thought, he thought hewas going to have a, an
opportunity at this bug.
Full velvet back in Septemberand like two or three days
before the season.
He showed up on camera and hewas hard horned I mean it
happened Like it happened inlike a four day period or
something.
It was pretty wild I mean wewere watching him.

(10:14):
We were you know, he was showingme pictures every day back in
late August and early Septemberand then I think our season
opened on the 14th of Septemberthis year and So even like on
the 10th of September.
Yeah, we saw pictures of himwhere he was still still soft
horn and man he was so excitedand and Then that deer

(10:36):
disappeared.
Yeah, you know, he was just goneHe hunted him a couple times
early season and then justcouldn't figure out where he was
that You know that storm camethrough they lost like 70
percent of their trees on theirfarm.
I mean, it's it's pretty roughwhere where his place is at and
and so Finally, the deer startshowing back up, you know,

(10:57):
because all right.
So the deer early season, youknow, it's kind of a food thing,
right?
They're loading up on food,getting whatever they can
because they know what's coming,you know, books are doing it
because they're, you know, asthat.
As that transition from softhorn to hard horn happens, what,
what, what's happening there isthis, this massive testosterone

(11:18):
dump, and that's what causesthat, that velvet to come off.
Well.
So, you can look at it as like a16 year old kid, right?
That 12 year old kid.
Yeah.
He eats a lot, but nothingcompared to when he's 16 or 17
or 18 years old, man, they'll,they'll eat you out of the house
at home at that point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I am.
I am living that right now.

(11:39):
Okay.
And so that's kind of thattransition period they're going
through.
So they're loading up on foodand you know, you can, you can
get them pretty consistent atthat point because they're going
to food sources and then.
Then you have this.
Um, it's it's a big periodduring the season where, you
know, it's not like they're noteating anymore, but their mind
is not on food anymore.

(12:00):
You know, it's on other thingsthat go along with, with, um,
with their year.
Yeah.
And, um, and then later in theyear it goes, it moves back to
food and there's less foodavailable, you know, so it
becomes, you know, if you canfigure out where that food is,
you can, you can find the deer.
Yeah.
But.

(12:22):
We still have to remember, youknow, most animals are primarily
nocturnal.
Yes.
Right.
So it's just a, it is just abattle.
It's just a battle.
It is.
And

BRANDON (12:34):
especially, you know, it was a grind.
Um, I will say I hunted to thelast, you know, minute of, uh,
daylight season, but, um, youknow, it gets to the point
where, um, Sometimes you're likeclimbing the tree going, I know
I'm not going to see, you know,or, or I know I'm the chances of

(12:58):
me seeing a really good buck arevery slim.
But, uh, again, that's when Ijust have to change my focus to,
you know, I don't want to enjoybeing out here.
If I kill a deer, it's a bonusand, um, but still trying to
learn things, but I know for me,I, I made adjustments too late,

(13:20):
you know, my son, especially myoldest son and I, um, Man, Dake
and I, we talked and talked andtalked about where are the deer,
where are the deer.
Finally, I'm like, look, man, wegot to do something different.
And I think he kind of was justlike, heck with this, you know,
I'll just do something else.
And I kept trying and, um, justhunting different places and,

(13:45):
uh, I, I honestly don't feellike I ever really pinpointed,
um, Exactly what they weredoing, uh, but which by the time
I started trying, it was laterin the season.
Um, and so a lot of the, the, Iguess, better hunting
opportunities were behind, but Idid learn that this year of just

(14:08):
being able to be adjustable, uh,and making quick adjustments
when you realize, okay, this isnot a typical season because
it's going to happen again.
Um, and I don't know that thisyear is not even more important
than most years.
to be in the woods, maybe evennow trying to figure out what

(14:32):
were the deer doing?
Because we talked about thislast week, the down trees and
all of that, they're not goingto be gone next year.
Yeah.
It's going to be the same.
So, you know, scouting, figuringout like, where were they, what

(14:52):
were they doing?
What were their patterns reallylike?
Um, I think it's probably goingto be more important this year
than probably any other year.

JOHN (15:03):
I think what's going to be a challenge for the 2025 season
is figuring out where deer arebedding now.
Yes.
Because, you know, we have a lotof pine trees in Georgia.
It's a big part of our economyis, is growing pine trees.
Um.
So because of that, pineplantations are usually clean,

(15:25):
right?
Right.
It's, it's, it's land that you,that you burn on a regular basis
and, and keep it, keep it cleanso those trees are able to grow,
right?
So you know, In those areaswhere it's clean, that's not a
bedding area.
You know, a deer is not justgoing to go out there and lay
down because the pine straw iscomfortable.

(15:45):
You know, even though it may be,they can't, they don't have any
cover, so they're not doingthat.
So, so we've known, okay, thisisn't a bedding area.
This is, you know, they're goingto travel through here,
whatever.
And, and from a bow huntingstandpoint, that's extremely
hard to hunt an area like that,right, because.

(16:06):
When you have a area, an areathat's clean like that, you
know, deer in the Southeast, atleast in Georgia, where we hunt,
they don't, they are norespecter of trails, right?
They will walk wherever theyfeel like walking.
You know, I've hunted in, uh, inIllinois.
And buddy, let me tell yousomething, if you find a trail,

(16:27):
they're going to be on thattrail.
They are at some point going tocome through that trail, right?
You know, it's just, it's justdifferent, you know, and, and,
you know, the other thing thatI'll say about hunting up north,
up in Illinois.
Is that, man, a deer will walkstraight across the field.
Yeah, you will never see a deerwalking across the field down

(16:48):
here.
I mean, it's rare if you do, Imean, I'm talking about in the
middle of the day, they'll justwalk across the field, you know,
and I was, I was shocked to seesome of that stuff, you know,
there was, there was a cornfieldthat I was hunting on up in
Illinois this season.
that they had just cut the cornon that field and I was hunting

(17:08):
in the back corner and thecombine was still sitting up in
the front corner.
I arranged that combine and itwas like 1800 and something
yards.
I mean just as huge, hundreds ofacres, uh, in this, well, no,
no, that field was probably, itwas a little over a hundred
acres I think.
Um, in that field itself.
Now we did go to another fieldwhen we were doing some

(17:30):
scouting.
And that was the biggest fieldI've ever seen in my life.
Yeah.
I mean, it was just, there isnot a field anywhere in the
state of Georgia that's that, Imean, that field was like as big
as Bullock County.
It was just huge, man.
And, uh, but anyway, yeah, to,to see, to see the deer just
walk across the middle of thefield, you know, one o'clock in

(17:51):
the afternoon.
Yeah.
What is going on?
Right.
Right.
Um, Um, but yeah, so, so lookingat, I think you're right.
I think right now, I thinkthere's two things that need to
happen if you're a bow hunter.
Number one, don't just put yourbow up, right?
You know, you know what wasgoing on with your bow.
You've been shooting it.
You've been dragging it throughthe woods for the past two and a

(18:12):
half, three months.
And you know, okay, this wasn'tworking quite right.
It was good enough to getthrough the season.
I didn't want to make a change,but I know I need to take care
of this.
This rest didn't work in right,or the string is looking rough
right here.
So, you know, whatever the casemay be, take the time right now,
you know, if, if we're your bowshop, come see us right now.

(18:32):
Yeah.
If you don't live here and youknow, you're going to be going
to another bow shop, I promiseyou, they will thank you for
coming in in January to get, toget your bow worked on because
there's just not that pressureof, you know, the vast majority
of people.
We'll pull their bow out a monthbefore the season.

BRANDON (18:53):
They're going to come in September 1st and want you to
fix it.
Yeah.
You know, and it just, andeverybody else and

JOHN (18:59):
along with everybody else.
And that's fine.
I mean, we know that's going tohappen, but it creates a lot of
stress for us, you know, to tryto handle the workload because
in addition to working on bowsand getting stuff ready, we're
also selling a lot of newequipment during that time.
Yeah.
Um, you know, so it's, itbecomes a, um, leading up to the

(19:20):
season, it becomes a, you know,getting here at six or 7 a.
m.
every morning and leaving, youknow, when we finally get that
work done for the day, which whoknows what time that is and
that's fine, you know, we, weunderstand the seasonality of
our business, you know, justlike a, just like a peanut
farmer can't, you know, I'm surethey would love to be able to go

(19:43):
pick their peanuts.
And.
July, you know, because they,they got nothing going on, you
know, they're done planting.
They're just kind of maintainingtheir crop, making sure
everything is, is, uh, sprayedwhen it needs to be sprayed with
the fungicide and stuff likethat, you know, but the reality
is they can't do it untilthey're ready, you know?
So the reality for me is Ican't, I can't do the work until

(20:07):
somebody comes in with it, youknow?
So that's what I would encourageeverybody to do is instead of
just putting your bow away.
Take it out, look at it, ifyou're not comfortable with
doing that, bring it in, let usgo through it, take it to your
local bow shop, let them gothrough it, and uh, you know,
make sure your equipment iswhere it needs to be, and then

(20:29):
the next thing I would say isstill get out in the woods, you
know, it's still early yet tobe, you know, to be finding
sheds, um, I mean, you, you mayfind some, we, we, we did have,
Um, one or two bucks that, thatwe were seeing on camera, um,
that had already droppedsomething, I mean, like even two

(20:49):
weeks ago.
So that, that was probablyinjury related that caused him
to drop that.
But it's, it's probably earlyfor you to see that, but it's
not too early for you to get outand figure out, okay, where are
these deer moving?
What's going on with them?
Yeah, to, to have a, a betteridea of what you're going to be

(21:10):
doing going into the 2025season, and if you run trail
cameras, man, and you get outand you find something, move
that trail camera, get it overthere on that, on that trail
that you found.
And because there's not going tobe any pressure, people aren't
going in the woods and hunting,your neighbor's not going in the
woods and hunting anymore, youknow, your neighbor's probably
not running their, their feedersanymore or anything like that,

(21:33):
you know, we, we've got a, uh,neighboring property and, um, in
fact, one time when I washunting this year, their feeder
went off and I didn't know theyhad a feeder and I just about
came out of the tree and it was,yeah, I mean, it was, you know,
over 100 yards from me, but whenyou're, it's probably 200 yards

(21:54):
from me, but when you're deep inthe woods and there's no sounds
besides, you know, themosquitoes buzzing in your ear
every now and then, and youknow, the crazy woodpecker that
tries to take your eye out orsomething like that.

BRANDON (22:07):
Willing to waste an arrow.
Right.

JOHN (22:09):
Yeah.
So in, in, in other words, it'spretty quiet.
And then all of a sudden youhear this metal sound of corn
hitting this feeder.
I was like, what is going on?
And, um, yeah, so we learnedthat every day at 1648 or 448,
uh, that, that feeder was goingto go off and, you know, we

(22:33):
never saw a deer Going towardsthat feeder until dark.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and it's, and, and,listen, I'm not, I'm not here to
tell you don't use feeders.
Listen, if you want to usefeeders, use them.
If you want to use corn piles,use them.
It's legal here, use them if youwant to.
Um, you know, we can get intoall kind of rabbit holes on

(22:58):
that, you know.
But if you, if you want to dothat, that's fine.
There's, there's nothing wrongwith it.
But, um, just use it the rightway, you know, like, uh, we'll,
we'll, we'll use corn on ourplace, but I will never hunt
over corn.
Right.
Well, I'll rarely hunt overcorn.
There have been times, you know,where I've taken a kid to go

(23:18):
hunting and we just.
We'll just sit on a corn pile ina, in a ground blind.
We're just like 30 yards fromthe corn pile.
Right.
You know, and I know that deerare eventually going to show up
to it just depending on whattime of year it is.
And I want them to get anopportunity.
So here we go.
Right.
But typically if, if I have afeed source, I'm going to be
hunting close to it.

(23:39):
Yeah, but I want to be.
In between where the deer is andwhere that food is, you know,
like if, if I, if I had achoice, if I had a choice of
knowing one thing from a, from awhitetail hunting standpoint, I
want to know where that deer'sbedding.
Yeah,

BRANDON (23:57):
yeah,

JOHN (23:57):
that, that is, if, if I could only know one thing,
that's the thing I want to know,you know.
Um,

BRANDON (24:04):
for sure.
And I know a couple of yearsago, man, I had this place.
I was hunting and, um, still hadit this year to hunt, but it
just wasn't the deer justweren't there that it's kind of
in and it's in the city limits.
And so there's so muchdevelopment going on here that a

(24:25):
lot of that terrain changedaround the area.
And I think it affected thedeer.
But man, we had some really nicebugs.
I mean, this kind of felt like asequel and kind of thing where,
I mean, when I would climb atree, I'm looking over in
somebody's backyard, I'mwatching their dog run around
the backyard kind of thing, butreally nice bugs.

(24:46):
And so we had a camera with somecorn right on the edge of a
field.
And, uh, so as, as you walked inon my left, there were houses on
my right.
It was just, it's really nastypond.
So there was probably about, uh,75 to 100 yard strip of woods
and, um, I noticed like thisreally nice buck is showing up

(25:11):
every single day, but it's like630.
So he's like 30, 45 minutesafter dark every, just about
every single day.
And so I waited and waited and Ineeded a west wind that would be
blowing out over that pond.
Um, because I knew then likehe's not gonna, he's not gonna

(25:33):
pick me up.
I can, I can get positionedright.
And finally that day comes, it'slike perfect, it's a cool day.
Um, West wind, um, it's one ofthe few times that I can say I
planned it and it worked outexactly like I planned, you
know, and so I go, I go probablyabout a hundred yards.

(25:56):
Or maybe a little more into thewoods down this little strip of
woods climb the tree You know,probably 30 minutes before dark
about 15 does just come justblowing by me headed to the
Cornpile.
Well, I look up and I see onelittle day this is later in the

(26:17):
season one little doe and Ithink it was probably a Um, a
young doe that, that came in or,or late and I look behind her
and, and here he comes.
Well, I'd already killed threedeer that year with my bow.
You know, they were all 22 to 23yards.

(26:38):
Well, I range him and he's goingto be at like 22 steps, right?
23, 22 yards.
Well, the only thing I had thenwas.
the issue of drawing without thedough.
With 15 doughs?
Yeah, well they're gone.
They had already gone through,yeah.
They're gone.
But without this dough seeingme, or without him seeing me,

(26:58):
and so it worked out perfect,man.
This dough walks behind thisgreen bush as his head goes
behind a big pine tree.
And I mean, I couldn't havedrawn it up any better.
So I draw back and I'm like, inmy mind, I'm like, this is game
over.
This is done.
Like, man, it's workedperfectly.

(27:21):
Uh, I shoot somehow I made a badshot.
I don't know what happened.
Like that distance all seasonlong had been just money, right?
It should be.
And I hit him low, um, just kindof grazed the belly and, uh, you
know, he took off, we never,never found him, found some

(27:43):
blood and stuff, but I think he,he probably lived and, um, but
you know, it was set up perfect,but I would have never killed
that deer over the corn.
I had to get a hundred, 150yards away from that corn.
I knew where they were bedding.
It was a much more simplesituation.
And being in a huge block ofwoods trying to figure it out

(28:05):
because it was just a, an easyfunnel, but I never would have
been able to have a shot at thatdeer, um, hunting the corn, you
know, like you were saying,getting away from the corn, um,
figuring out their travel ways,those kinds of things is, is a
lot more effective than, thanwhat we do and, and not to, uh,

(28:27):
feathers, but I feel like ashunters, it's easy for us to get
lazy.
Um, where it's, I mean,honestly, it's just easy to go.
I mean, it's kind of nice justto go climb up in a stand, you
know, when you, with a corn fileand you don't have to walk, you
know, four or 500 yards orwhatever.
And, um, but I think.

(28:51):
Success, you know, to haveconsistent success and
consistency and seeing betterdeer, it takes that effort.
And, um, and so at least that'swhat I've seen over the last
several years.

JOHN (29:06):
Yeah.
And that's just privately andhunting.

BRANDON (29:08):
Yeah.
That's not even counting public.
I actually hunted public for thefirst time in my life this year.
We were up at Lake Oconee.
Right after Christmas with mywife and her family, love my
family dearly, but I can onlysit in the house for so long.
And so finally I got a pass togo.
And so I went to the Oconee WMAfirst time I've ever done that.

(29:32):
And, um, So that was reallycool.
I, I walked in and, um, it wasdifferent though, because I walk
in and I'm finding the spot.
I'm actually finding some reallyfresh scrapes and it was archery
only and had been for a coupleof weeks.
And so, um, I'm, I'm looking andI find some scrapes or some
fresh rubs.
You know, there's a lot of sign,a lot more sign than I expected

(29:54):
to see.
And I'm like this, I'm just, Ithink this is the place.
It was a little creek that ranthrough there.
Nice little draw where the deerwere walking.
I was like, man, I'm, I'm goingto hunt here and I look over and
there's a climber.
And so I'm like, all right, I'llkeep moving.
So I go on a little bit furtherand I found this place where
like three creeks ran togetherand there was a pine thicket on

(30:17):
one side.
There was a trail just worn outdown the edge of that pine
thicket and I'm like, well, I'llgive this a try.
Well, I, I climbed the tree.
As I get about three quarters upto where I want to be, um, the
elevation I want to sit at, Iturn around and look over my
left shoulder.
There's a hang on up the ridge.
Oh my gosh.

(30:37):
So I'm like, at this point I'mlike, well, maybe they won't
just won't show up.
Yeah.
This archery, this probably, Idon't know, it was at least a
hundred yards.
I'm like, well, we'll just, youknow, if I see one, I'll point
it out to them, you know, but,um.
But I ended up seeing a coupleof does, so that was really
cool, but it's like you said,you know, this is, we're talking

(31:00):
like having to work to get to aplace to hunt on private land,
um, public even more so, and Irealized how out of shape I was,
especially going back, most of,uh, the walk in was downhill,
most of the walk out was uphill.
It's funny how that works.
Yeah, I mean, I'm like, can itbe downhill both ways?

(31:24):
No, no, no,

JOHN (31:24):
it could only be uphill both ways when you were walking
to school as a kid.
In the snow.
In the snow, barefoot.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we've all heard that storyor some rendition of it, right?
That's right.
So,

BRANDON (31:36):
um, but yeah, so that was interesting.
And I think that, um, you know,just being willing to do that
extra, um, You know and and tryto make the most of it.
That's one thing.
I hate man.
I hate when I leave a Huntfeeling like I wasted it.

JOHN (31:54):
Mmm,

BRANDON (31:55):
you know you get that opportunity to go and Either you
just didn't go to the right spotand you know it or you know I
don't know if you've ever donethis but I get to the place that
I really want to hunt and Ithink I've got the right tree
and I climbed the tree and I'mlike, I can't see anything and

(32:18):
you know, being able to evenjust pick out the right tree.
I mean, just, but I hate leavinga hunt feeling like I just
wasted that opportunity, youknow?
And so, um, and I think a lot oftimes when we're just hunting a
food plot or.
We're just hunting a corn pile.
I think it's kind of a wastedopportunity.

(32:40):
It's, it's, it's not giving usthe best opportunity.
We're not maximizing our chancesto see a good deer.

JOHN (32:49):
Yeah.
You know, one of my things is.
I hate wasting time.
Yes.
Like it really, it bothers memore than it should.
Right.
And, and it keeps me from goinghunting sometimes because I
will, I'll get home from work ona Saturday, you know, we, we
closed the shop at two o'clockon Saturdays and I'll get home

(33:10):
and it's like, you know, allright, this is perfect.
We.
We got time to get in the woods,we can go, you know, especially
early season, I mean, you gotplenty of time and I'll get home
and I'll, I'll see somethingthat needs to be done and I'm
just like, yeah, no, I'm goingto stay, you know, I'm not going
out today, I'm going to, I'mgoing to stay here and I'm going
to work on this.

(33:30):
And, uh, that's why when youlook at that board over there,
Wes has got five checks and Igot zero, you know, it's not
because I didn't have theopportunity to go hunting.
It's because I saw somethingthat I wanted to do, you know, I
wanted to clean this up at thebarn or I wanted to work on this
side by side that's got bad gasin it or whatever, you know, and

(33:51):
I'm just so, um, um, becauseI'll feel like.
You know, I'll get out there togo hunting and, and it's just
running through your mind.
I just can't stop thinking aboutit.
You know, it's like, man, it's,it's, you know, that old
commercial that was like a, Idon't know.
It was like a, some kind ofstain treatment commercial or

(34:11):
something.
This guy goes in for aninterview and he's got this
stain on his shirt and the stainis supposedly talking to the
other guy.
He can't think about anythingexcept that.
Staying on the, on the guy'sshirt.
And, and I just, I can't get itout of my mind that there's
something that I need to bedoing, you know?
And, uh, I don't,

BRANDON (34:29):
well, see you and I, then we need to, we need to
somehow merge and meet in themiddle because when deer season
comes in, man, like the house,it just falls apart.

JOHN (34:43):
Well, so what you're saying is you are a pro at
ignoring everything.
I'm

BRANDON (34:48):
like, Yeah, that, that can wait.
I can, I can get to that later.
Yeah.
Um, and so, uh, but I shouldprobably be more the other way,
but if there's an opportunity,man, I, I can, I, there's,
there's not many things I canjust completely block out of my
mind.
But during deer season, I thinkI have this spiritual gift of,

(35:12):
of, uh, of not, not noticing orjust not wanting to notice
things that I probably shouldbe.
Working on

JOHN (35:21):
the spiritual gift of, of selective discernment.
Yeah.
Or, or, uh, or, or of completelyignoring Right.
That the house is on fire.
That's exactly right.
Oh my goodness.
Well, we'll come up with somegood spiritual gifts, won't we?
That's right.
Oh, man, I, you know, I have toget my Bible here.
I don't know if that one's inthere.
Yeah, I don't think it is.

(35:41):
It might be.
It might be.

BRANDON (35:42):
I don't think those lists are exhaustive though.
Okay.
I mean, I think there's just afew that were referenced.
I'm sure this is one of them.

JOHN (35:52):
Yeah, that, so that's, that's been my challenge for
this year, at least, because,you know, every time we, when
I'd come home in the afternoons,you know, back to that idea of
actually setting aside that timeto go and hunt, I'd come home in
the afternoons and I'd see, youknow, man, I still got that pile
of trees that I hadn't donesomething with.

(36:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um.
You know, my, my tractor hasbeen down for months and I've
got a guy that's working on itand man, he's had to tear this
thing apart to try to figure outwhat's going on with it and he
still hasn't gotten to thebottom of it and his schedule
has been crazy, uh, because of,you know, everything going on

(36:34):
around here from, uh, From aconstruction standpoint and
everything, you know, so heworks a full time job and then
also works on equipment on theside and His his job has been
running him ragged.
Yeah, you know, so it's likeHe's he's had our tractor for a
while and he's I know he's gonnaget to it.
You know, I know he is but it'slike I haven't been able to do

(36:59):
stuff because with a tractor,with a front end loader, moving
some trees is like 30 minutes.

BRANDON (37:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the best thing

JOHN (37:06):
with a fat guy and a chainsaw.
It is, it is not 30 minutes.
So talking about realizing howout of shape you are, man.
A chainsaw will teach you thatpretty quick.
Yeah,

BRANDON (37:18):
I'll tell you the other thing that'll teach you how out
of shape you are is dragging adeer.

JOHN (37:22):
Oh my gosh.
So, that deer that, that, thatbuck that, that Wes killed this
year, Um, he was way back on thecreek.
Yeah.
Okay, and, and the barrier fromkind of where our, where our
pine plantation is to the creekusually runs about 100 or 150
yards.

(37:42):
Okay?
Yeah.
He shot that deer, like right onthe creek, which is the property
line, which is, you know, normalhere, uh, creeks or property
lines a lot of times.
And, um, So he shot that deerand it ran the exact opposite
direction.

(38:04):
Now there has been a couple oftimes where that's happened.
Uh, like I've got a friend that,that went out mule deer hunting
and he killed his first muledeer with his bow.
Um, made like a 48 yard shot orsomething.
I mean, it just pinwheeled thisdeer and he took off running and
ran and died in the trail.
Yeah.
And it was one of those, yeah,it was one of those properties

(38:26):
where, um, it was, it was publicland, but you were able to drive
side by sides and stuff likethat on it.
So they were able to pull rightup to him and load him in the
back of the side by side andhead out.
And he's like, man, this.
I'm never going to have anotherhunt like this, you know, it
wasn't like it was this crazy,insane trophy or something, but
to him, it's a trophy.
Absolutely.

(38:46):
You know, it's his first muledeer and he's like, he fell in
love with it.
Every year he's trying to figureout, all right, where, where am
I going to get to go?
I want to go chase mule deeragain.
And he just told me, he said,John, it's just a, it's a
completely different game, youknow?
But anyway, this deer ran theexact opposite direction that we
would have wanted him to go.
And, and, you know, we got allthese limbs and trees down in

(39:13):
the creek.
Dragging through a creek alreadyis not fun because you've got
all these roots and everything.
If you have a, a, an area that'swet and you've got hardwoods,
you've always got these rootscoming up trying to get air.
Right?
And so you've got all theseroots on top that you're
dragging over.

(39:33):
And then.
In addition to that, we've gottrees that we got to get over
and, you know, it's in themiddle of the night and we're
dragging and the worst part ofthis was nothing looks the same
at night to start with.
Okay.
Well, add to that.

(39:54):
This is land we've been huntingfor.
A decade.
So I'm, I really know where I'mat.
I've, I've, I've never gottenlost out there.
I mean, it's not that big of apiece of property, but I've
never gotten lost or anything,but here's what happened this
year.
So you're dragging this deer andit's like, you got to go over
this tree.

(40:14):
So you turn around and you'refacing the deer and you're
pulling backwards.
Yeah.
And you finally get over thistree and then you turn around
and it's like.
Man, where, where am I at?
Well,

BRANDON (40:25):
and everything looks different.

JOHN (40:26):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I turned around andI'm like, okay, well we're only,
you know, we got 200 yards to gowith this deer to where we can
get out and we can, we canprobably get to him with the
truck.
And I turn around and I'm like Isaid, Wes, uh, which way do we
go?
Where, where, where we at rightnow?
I said, turn your headlamp offso we can see if we can see some
lights.
I mean, that's how bad it was.
I got so disoriented pullingthat thing.

(40:48):
And the deer weighed like 220pounds or so, which is huge for
a Georgia deer.
And, um, and it was a deer wehad never gotten on camera.
Well, not, not this season.
We figured out that we hadgotten him on camera a couple
years ago.
Um, but we had never, we had notgotten him on camera this year.

(41:08):
And, um, anyway.
Um.
Um, man, it was, it was handsdown the worst drag we have ever
had.

BRANDON (41:17):
Well, you know, one of the things that's kind of funny,
um, is tracking deer.
So I'll go track deer for peopleand we find the deer and you
know, I don't just leave themwith it, but they'll start to
drag it.
And this does not apply toanyone listening to this

(41:37):
podcast.
You would never do this.
Um, But we get, uh, get goingand it's so slow and they're,
they're dragging it.
And I'm like, Gosh, it's nineo'clock.
I still got an hour, hour, 15minute drive home.
I gotta, you know, and sofinally I'm like, Hey, why don't
you let me give you a hand withthat because I'm like, we got to

(42:00):
get this thing out of the woods,man.
And so I ended up dragging thatdeer, but man, it, it is
exhausting.
Yeah.
And, um, but I'm like, I can'tbe here all night.
We can't go five yards and stop,you know, we got to get this
thing out.
That ain't going to work.
And so, um, But yeah, sometimes,you know, when you do that,
you're dragging, I mean, it canbe a four or five hundred yard

(42:22):
drag because you know, you'retracking it, you're not tracking
it because it died a hundredyards away, you know, and so it,
that can be the unfun part.
Yeah.
Um,

JOHN (42:35):
yeah.
I had somebody tell me one time,the best way to ruin a hunt is
to take a shot.
I'm like, what

BRANDON (42:42):
the best part though, is when we load it in the truck,
I get to go home.
There you go.
I don't have to go clean thegear or whatever.
So, um, but anyway, yeah, so itdefinitely tells on you when,
when you're dragging one out.
And, um, but the good side is atleast you, you did a kill one.
Yeah.
So.

JOHN (43:02):
Which is the point.
Yes.
You know, uh, that is the pointof going out there, but, you
know, going out and, um, gettingthe opportunity to be out in
creation and just beingunplugged for a little while.
Yeah.
Like I'll get on the guys allthe time.
I say, get on to them.
I'll just be like, guys, why areyou sitting there on your phone?

(43:23):
Yeah.
Put that thing away.
Absolutely.
You know, completely unpluggedfor a little while.
Yeah.
Watch what's going on aroundyou.
Just, you know, I think I thinkthere are a lot of deer Alive
right now because somebody wassitting there on tiktok And
didn't even know they walked byabsolutely um, because I mean
it's like Um, I'll, I'll laughat myself sometimes when I'm

(43:46):
hunting, because you expect, youknow, you're sitting there
looking and, and kind ofwatching around and making sure
you're not moving too much andturning your head real slow and
stuff.
And it's like, man, these deerare not walking through the
woods, like some kind of ninja,you know, looking everywhere.
Now, a doe might be, you know,we talked a little bit about the
difference between a buck and adoe, you know, just like we're

(44:07):
hardheaded and, and, um, we getinto our habits like I bet.
I bet.
The majority of the guyslistening right now I bet you
put the same shoe on first everymorning.
Yeah, I mean, that's how that'show How much of a creature of
habit we are

BRANDON (44:24):
probably wash the same body part first every time, like
left arm every time in theshower.
I mean, it's just what I do.
And, uh, if, if I, if I don'twash my hair first, then I
forget to wash your hair.
The whole day is ruined.
You know,

JOHN (44:40):
why is, why are we such creatures of habit, man?
I mean, it's, it just is, it'scomical to me and I'll be
sitting there when I'm huntingand I'm thinking about, you
know, And I think the reason Ido this, the reason I'm like
looking everywhere is because adeer will just show up.
Oh, yeah.
It's like, man, I was justlooking right there two seconds
ago and then I turned and Ilooked back and I have never, I

(45:05):
hadn't heard a thing.
Yeah.
And there's just this doestanding there.
And I don't know what it isabout does, but they will pick
you off.
So, so easy.
I mean, it's like you can, youcan kill a buck if you can just
get to where the buck's at.
You can kill him.
Yeah.
Or you can have youropportunity.
Right.
You know, like, I mean, wetalked about last time that I

(45:25):
had an opportunity to kill whatwas my target buck this year,
which for most people would notbe considered a trophy.
But for me, it was just becauseof what he is.
And man, he took up way toomuch.
brain space.
I don't have extra space.
Okay, I understand.
I don't have extra space forsomething to just come in and
start taking it up.
And he was taking up.

(45:45):
He was taking up more room thanhe should have.
And he gave me my opportunityand I blew it.
You know, I finally got drawn,but But you know, it was, it was
meant to be this year that I wasjust going to draw my bow on
deer.
And that was it.
You know, apparently.
Yeah.
I mean, dude, I got really goodat holding my bow at full draw.

BRANDON (46:06):
I don't know if you've ever seen this before, but she's
talking about does and how, youknow, they're just so jumpy.
They're so alert.
They're, you know.
But if there's a place that Ihunt consistently, I've had does
that will walk out and look atthat tree.
Oh, yeah.
Like they, they'll look and seeif you're there, you know, and

(46:27):
it's like, it's such adifference.
You know, most of the bucks,they're kind of cruising
through.
Um, they got their mind probablyon one thing and they're just
like us, just kind of like, do,do, do, do, do.

JOHN (46:41):
I've had, I've had a buck look, look straight up at me.
And sit there and look and kindof turn his head and then be
like, eh, whatever, you know,just walking off.
Whereas you have a doe do that.
If they ever look up at you, Imean, move, don't move, whatever
you want to do, it's probablyover.

BRANDON (46:58):
Yeah.
And this is probably not a goodpractice, but.
I kind of have a rule that if adoe blows, it's got to go, you
know, and so like, as soon asthe foot stomps, the arrows fly.
Oh yeah.
No, I know.

JOHN (47:13):
I know.
So, so Sunday was our, was, uh,closing day.
That was the last day of theseason and I hunted Sunday
until, you know, the, the lastsecond of shooting light and
again, Oh, I didn't get drawn.
I, I tried to and I got bustedand it was a doe.

(47:33):
I mean, just this, it was an olddoe, big old long nose.
And I was like, man, I, I, uh,this is it.
Uh, I gotta go.
And she was probably pregnant.
She looked, she looked pretty,pretty big.
And, um, You know, it, it just,it didn't happen.
And this little four point camewalking through.

(47:54):
He had no care in the world, butthat doe, I mean, she was 40
yards from me and I'm behind thetree cause I saddle hunt.
So I'm able to use the tree toreally.
You know, a lot of what I'mdoing and, um, from behind the
tree, you know, she saw my handgoing and grabbing my bow, how

(48:14):
in the world, you know, and Iknow what it was when she saw
the movement and trees don'thave arms.
So she's like, nope, nope,something's wrong.
So here she goes blowing and,you know, raising cane and, and,
and getting out of there.
But um, Yeah, that buck camewalking through at like, I mean,
he wasn't that close to me, buthe didn't have, man, he wasn't
even looking.

(48:34):
Yeah.
He was just, you know, he justwalking through, you know, going
in and

BRANDON (48:39):
like, they'll smell the tree.
You climb,

JOHN (48:43):
you know, something I've noticed over the past couple of
years.
Talking about deer smellingtrees is them eating the moss
off the tree, huh?
I watched it again Sunday.
Yeah, a young deer sitting thereeating it and Four years ago.
I actually recorded that deerthat's hanging on the wall up
there, right?
I recorded him for like 30minutes really eaten.

(49:05):
I'll show you that video Infact, I'll post that video but
it I mean it was crazy.
He's just sitting there eatingit and we pulled that video up
Like a month ago and we werelooking at it and I was like,
man, this deer looks familiar.
And one of the guys was like,John, that's that deer right
there.
And we started looking at it andsure enough.
Yeah, I killed him.
Um, I killed him to either,either the next year or two

(49:31):
years later.
And the mass that he picked upin that time was unreal.
That's right.
Yeah.
Uh, but that's what he wasdoing.
You know how the trees,especially in the creek bottom,
they'll get that green.
That's right.
Whatever growing on the bottomof it.
That's what he was sitting thereeating.
I mean, and sat there and ate itfor 30 minutes.
Just crazy.
Yeah.
I'd never seen a deer do thatbefore.

(49:51):
And then I saw him again, reallyclose to the same spot that I
watched that deer do it a fewyears ago.
Um, I watched it again on, onSunday, this young deer coming
out and that's what, that's whathe was eating or he or she,
whatever it was, was, waseating.
Was that, that, that moss, thatstuff growing on the bottom of
the tree.
There's another lesson.
Don't hunt corn, hunt moss.

(50:13):
I mean, hunt something, youknow, I mean, listen, you ain't
going to kill them from yourliving room.
I can promise you that orsitting there, you know, like I
was this year running achainsaw.
Absolutely.
You're not going to get thatdone.
But yeah, there's definitely adifference between bucks and
does and what it looks like toget them and everything.
So, um, so yeah, that's, it's,it's, it is.

(50:37):
It's always a challenge.
And it's always so much fun tome to be out there just to have
the opportunity to learnsomething new.
Yes.
Like I don't yeah.
I don't want to, you know, bepious or something and be like,
well, I've learned something newevery time I got home because,
you know, sometimes you're justout there and you're just like,
you know, you, you didn't seesomething new, but then

(51:00):
sometimes you see somethingthat's like, I've never seen
that is crazy.
You know, I had no idea thatthat would happen.
I had no idea a doe would grunt.
You know, it's like what, youknow, and, and, and so that's
really cool to get to see that,um, and to see how deer respond
to just all kinds of differentthings, you know, I mean, when

(51:22):
they were, when God created thatanimal, he gave them some really
cool stuff to keep them aliveand seeing how they use that is,
um, is really cool.
So I've, I've, I just.
Yeah.
I just think it's so much fun tobe able to get out and do that.
Yeah.

BRANDON (51:38):
And that's one of the great things about being in the
woods is you never know whatyou're gonna see.
You know, you never know.
Um, you never know when thatreally great opportunity to get
a nice deer is gonna happen.
But you also never know whenyou're gonna see something you
never seen before.
Experienced something you'venever seen.
And, uh.

(51:59):
That's part of the excitement.
It's kind of like fishing in theocean.
You kind of don't ever know whatyou're going to catch, you know,
and always something new and,and it's the same with the
woods.
Um, and just like for me, youknow, hunting that public land
for the first time, it was justa cool experience, you know,
just something different.
And, um, so, um, Yeah, it'salways always fun just to be

(52:24):
able to get out, you know, andbe in the in the woods.
Yeah For me a lot of sermon prephappens in a tree.
Yeah,

JOHN (52:31):
you know Yeah, I get it man.
I have I keep a I keep like alittle small leather journal
Yeah in my pack and even Sundaywhen I was hunting I pulled it
out Was it Sunday?
Yeah, it was Sunday and uh, I'msitting there making notes about
stuff because I taught Sundaymorning and um, I did not get

(52:53):
through everything.
Right.
You know, so there's gonna be a,a, uh, uh, to be continued.
There you go.
It's coming up this Sunday,right?
And um, and, and, and it wasbecause we were talking about
spiritual warfare.
Yeah.
And you can't get through thatin 30 minutes.
Yeah.
You can't get through that inthree months I think.

(53:13):
Right, know, but.
You try to do things succinctlyand, and, you know, it's, um,
it's, it's in a small group.
It's in a Sunday school typesetting.
And, um, you know, it's just, weleave room for people to ask
questions for us to have adiscussion and stuff like that.
It's not like it's a lectureenvironment.

(53:35):
Right.
And, um, so a lot of questionscame up.
Um, on Sunday, and I'm sittingthere making notes about them,
you know, because one of thethings that I like to do, and I,
I want to be better about this,but when, when a question comes
up that we really need to spendtime on, I want to make sure we
go back to that, you know, and,um, because number one, I want

(54:01):
people to realize, hey, I wantyou to ask questions, and if you
don't address and, you know,questions, then.
People won't ask, you know,what's, what's the point of
doing that, right?
Um, so there was one inparticular and I actually
reached out to, um, to this ladythis week and I said, Hey, thank

(54:21):
you so much for asking thequestion you did.
I guarantee you there's otherpeople thinking about that.
And, apologize that I wasn'table to, you know, give it the
attention that it needed to begiven.
Because it was a pretty deepquestion.
Yeah.
The question was, why does Godallow Satan to do what he does?

(54:42):
Right.
Right.
That is not a quick 30 secondblurb.
Right.
Right.
And I told her, I said, listen,we're gonna, we're gonna
continue in the, you know, kindof the study that we're in.
But when we get done with this.
That's first on the, it's firston the list that we're going to
go into.
You can't say he just does.
I mean, you can't, I mean, whoare we to question God, right?

(55:03):
Who are we to question God?
Job tried that, right?
Like we talked about mean, yeah,he did, you know, and it's like,
well, and he's not the onlyexample, you know, that we get
to see in scripture wheresomebody was, was questioning
God and, you know.
Not exactly following throughlike he said to, and you know,
you got somebody that, that tooka staff and hit a rock and we'll
have that work out for him.

(55:24):
Right.
You know, so, so, I mean, yeah,we, we get to, we get to look at
things like that.
And the, the goal from the wordgo is we don't want to be
smarter about scripture.
You know, I don't want to be.
I don't want to be where I couldsay, well, I've got all of

(55:45):
scripture memorized and I'mholier than, okay, whatever.
That's great.
Fantastic.
You know, but I do want to beable to say.
That I've helped somebody betterunderstand God's character.

BRANDON (56:00):
Yeah.

JOHN (56:01):
Because if I can better understand God's character, I
can be closer to him.

BRANDON (56:07):
Exactly.

JOHN (56:07):
And then I have a better understanding of why I want to
Um, behave in a certain way, notbecause I have the fear of, man,
God's going to send me to hellif I don't do this, you know,
that legalistic attitude, butbecause man, I look at what he's
done for me.
Absolutely.
Look at what he's done for me.

(56:28):
And I want to do things that'sgoing to cause people to.
Want to know him, you know, andI don't want to say want to know
him the way I know him because Idon't, I don't fully know God.
I mean, how can I fully knowhim?
Right.
You know, I know him a lotbetter than I did a year ago.

BRANDON (56:46):
Yes.

JOHN (56:46):
I know him way.
Yeah, absolutely.
I know him way better than I dida decade ago.
Sure.
You know, I know him way, way,way better than I did 20 years
ago, you know, but I, there'snever, there's never that, you
know, that, that, that phrasearrived.
What, where did that even comefrom?

(57:07):
We need to look that up and weneed to go find that guy and
like slap him one time.
You know, whoever came up withthat, with that idea of arrived.
So if any of you listening,don't feel like you've arrived.
Well, welcome to the club.
Yeah.
I always

BRANDON (57:22):
tell, um, people, look, God has you in a process.
It's not a project, right?
Yeah.
It's not something that you'rejust going to complete.
That you're going to befinished.
You're not going to get to thisplace in this life and go, okay,
I'm done.
And the other thing I encouragepeople with is just enjoy the
journey, like enjoy therelationship, enjoy the

(57:44):
fellowship and know that like.
He's going to work out of youwhat he's put in you and just
walk with him, you know, andJesus made it pretty clear that
if you abide in him and you'llproduce much fruit and he makes
it really simple.
We complicate it.

(58:04):
And, uh, we're good at that,right?
Well, at complicating things,women are guys would never do
that.

JOHN (58:10):
Okay.
All right.
Brandon is the one that saidthat just for the record here,
as he said, as he said that hischair dropped like seven inches,
he just, he just hit someturbulence over here,

BRANDON (58:20):
struck by lightning.
Um, but no, I say thatsarcastically because we are so
good.
Um, guys, guys, especially at,um, You know, overcomplicating
the obvious, and the gospel isso simple, right?
Believe, and walk with the Lord,and He does the rest.

(58:43):
He does for us what we can't dofor ourselves.
And, man, we complicate that.
Um, and a lot of it's because ofwhat we've seen.
You know, we If you grew up inchurch, you probably heard a lot
more about what not to do thanwhat to do.
Um, you know, and, and if, evenif you heard some of the, uh,

(59:05):
do's, it was still a, probably alot of do's and don'ts, um, and
a lot less about knowing God,um, God becomes easily something
else to do rather than someoneto

JOHN (59:17):
know.

BRANDON (59:17):
And, um, and I think we have to realize that.
And you've talked about this,uh, actually before the podcast
today is what God wants isintimacy.
Yeah.
You know, he wants, he wants usclose.
I mean, he would not have sentJesus if he just wanted to be

(59:38):
some God who's way off aloof andnot involved in our lives.

JOHN (59:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.

BRANDON (59:44):
And so, um, I always believe this, that God is so
much more interested in ourheart.
Then he is our behavior and thatsounds bad, but I think God, the
reality is if God gets ourheart, he's going to change our
heart and our behavior is goingto change.

(01:00:07):
If we're in his word, our mind'sgoing to be renewed.
The decisions we make are goingto change.
And so the path of our lifewayis going to change.
And so, I think a lot of timeswhat we do, and we mean it well,
is we try to pick the bad fruitoff of our lives.
Rather than allowing God to workat the root of our life, um, and

(01:00:31):
until that root changes, um, thefruit's not going to change.
Um, and we can spend all of ourlife trying to pick that bad
fruit off, or trying to hide itfrom other people, but it's
still going to be there.
It's only really until God hasour heart, and he begins to work
at a deep level in our heart andour soul, um.

(01:00:54):
That that becomes consistent.
We can modify our behavior for awhile.
Sure we can, yeah.
But it can't be consistent.

JOHN (01:01:02):
You know, I think, I think the best example of us modifying
our behavior is Sunday mornings.

BRANDON (01:01:08):
Oh, gosh.
Everybody's a saint on Sundaymornings.
Yeah.
Everybody lies on Sundaymornings.
Because, I mean, think aboutthis.
You walk in and you're like Hey,how's it going, man?
We're doing great.
No.
And like some of these peoplethat are saying that like their
life's falling apart, but churchbecomes the one place we feel

(01:01:29):
like we can't be vulnerable whenit should be the place that we
can be the most vulnerable.

JOHN (01:01:35):
Right.
Yeah.
The point of being there ofworshiping.
Yeah.
Right.
It's not a social event.
Right.
You know, and I think that, youknow, I look back on.
Um, I, I grew up going tochurch, my parents had me in
church.
It was a, it was a, it was a, abig part of our lives.
You know, we were involved in,in, uh, stuff that would happen

(01:01:57):
throughout the week and, andthings like that, but it never
really connected with me, youknow, I didn't really understand
it.
It was like, Oh yeah, okay.
You know, and, and going tochurch has.
Has changed a lot over theyears.
Yeah.
You know, it used to be that,um, you know, the men were there

(01:02:19):
and they were all in suit andties and, and, um, you know, you
were picking up a hymn book andyou were singing, singing these
hymns and, you know, um, whichis, and nothing wrong with it.
Yeah.
That's great.
You know, I mean, there's stillsome churches like that and
that's fine.
I'm not sitting here.
wanting to, to, to beat up a, a,a church, so to speak.

(01:02:43):
But there was this idea of the,I almost like this perfection
that you had to obtain somehow.
And, um, you know, when you'reyoung, You don't interact with
people that much outside of likegoing to school and stuff like
that, you know, and, and seeingwhere people are at and, uh, and

(01:03:07):
then as you get older, you getto interact with folks and it's
like, yeah, you, you were atchurch Sunday.
You heard what our pastor said.
And I, this ain't what you'redoing right now.
It's not consistent with that.
You know, what happened, youknow,

BRANDON (01:03:23):
and that's extremely impactful on A young person in
general, but especially anunbeliever.

JOHN (01:03:31):
Yeah.

BRANDON (01:03:32):
And, and it, it obviously impacts a believer
too, but for an unbeliever itjust really is a turnoff when
there's such an, and, andthere's gonna be some
inconsistency in our life'causewe're not perfect.
But when there's no consistencyin our life with, that's in line
with God's truth, like.

(01:03:54):
That's pretty, that's a prettybig turnoff for people and I
think that's one reason thatpeople have rejected the church
in a lot of ways is it's got alittle bit of my experience is
what I saw when I started goingto church with my girlfriend
who's now my wife is I was likeI don't need this to live like I

(01:04:18):
live like this is not it.
going to change how I live,because the focus was on the
wrong thing.
And so what I saw actuallyturned me away rather than
drawing me in.

JOHN (01:04:33):
What was some of the stuff that you saw that was doing
that?

BRANDON (01:04:35):
Well, it was seeing people live two completely
different lives.
And it's one of the things as,You know, leading a church, uh,
pastoring a church, it's one ofthe things I've never wanted for
my kids, but again, I'm notperfect.
So they, they see, they know theworst of me, right?

(01:04:56):
My wife knows the worst of me,but I never want there to be
such a huge gap between theperson on the stage on Sunday
morning and the person that theylive with Monday through
Saturday.
But what I saw so much of wasthe inconsistencies and it
wasn't trying to hold people toa perfect standard or really

(01:05:18):
even looking for, you know, whatpeople will say a lot of times
is hypocrisy, right?
It was, um, one example is as Iwent to church and I only went
just to be with my girlfriend.

JOHN (01:05:31):
Yeah.
Same.
And so I go and

BRANDON (01:05:33):
sit and listen and I'm just like, oh gosh, when can we
go eat lunch?
And my stomach's growling andso, um, but, but what I started
seeing was, you know, everybodywas dressed up and I've always
said this, you know, after I gotsaved, just like everybody went

(01:05:53):
and they got cleaned up, theyput on their best pants or best
shirt, their best jacket andtheir best mask.

JOHN (01:06:01):
And

BRANDON (01:06:02):
they came to church.
And so I'm watching all thepeople who are, you know, these
people who are somebody in thecommunity.
And I'm like, well, I guess ifI'm going to be somebody in the
community, I need to do whatthey're doing.
And so I thought one way I cando that is I'll usher.

(01:06:22):
You know, it says, you know,some of the somebodies in the
community, um, ushered.
And so I was like, that'ssomething I'll do.
I'll usher.
And so I got the right clothes.
Um, I didn't have as I didn'tgrow up going to church.
And so I got the right clothes.
I started ushering and then wewould go back.
Um, they count out the money,put it in a bag, put it in the

(01:06:45):
safe and then most of them left.
Like they didn't stay for theservice, um, or the rest of the
service went to the golf course,whatever, nothing wrong with
golf, but it's like, all right,like, what was the point of that
just to check a box and say, Iwent to church just to say, Hey,
I served a little bit just to beseen.

(01:07:06):
I mean, like, I don't know whatthe purpose of it was, but for
me, it was a huge turnoff fromthe standpoint of, I don't need
religion.
If this is what it is, I don'tneed God.
If this is what this is about,like this is the most fake thing
I've ever seen.
And so it really, you know, mademe where I became very critical.

(01:07:30):
Um, you know, I still thinkabout one poor lady that she
tried so hard with my age groupand.
to, to really lead us in Biblestudies.
But I was that jerk.
No boy went to the Bible studyto ask the questions that you
couldn't answer and that reallyare stupid.

(01:07:51):
Like, can God make a rock so bigthat he can't move it kind of
thing, you know?
And I mean, just to be, just tobe a turd, you know what I mean?
And so that was me.
And so, um, I was very cynicalof God.
I had some, um, events with.
You know, uh, my girlfriend hadcancer when she was 16.

(01:08:12):
I had a cousin who died ofcancer when he was 16.
There were some events in mylife that it really made me hard
hearted towards God.
And the fear of hell neverreally moved me close to God.
I was like, kind of in my mind,like if that's where he wants me
to go, which side note, Godnever sends anybody to hell.

(01:08:32):
They choose that.
Yeah.
Um, and so I, um.
I really was like, you know,fear of hell doesn't make me
want to live for God.
I don't, you know, if that's hisheart that he wants to send me
to hell, then I want to servehim anyway.
And so that never worked.
And, um, my view of God was sojaded by what I saw and some

(01:08:59):
life experiences.
And it was not until Iencountered the love of Christ.
That my life changed, but when Iencountered the love of Jesus,
and I realized that as bad as Ihad been towards him, as much as
I had even cursed his name, um,and made fun of people who

(01:09:22):
followed him, he still wantedme, and when I realized that,
um, the day I got saved, there'sa guy preaching, he became a
good friend of mine, And he'stalking about every sin I was
doing, and I'm getting mad,right?
I'm like, who is this guy totell me how I ought to live?

(01:09:46):
And so I was literally gettingready to get up and leave.
And as I started to push mychair back, I just felt this
impression in my mind.
It said, why don't you shut upand listen to me?
And in that moment, I can'texplain it.
In that moment, I realized all Ihave to do is turn and when I

(01:10:08):
did, God was there and I waslike, wow, why would he still be
there for me when I've done allthis against him?
It was almost like Paul on theroad to Damascus, like, you
know, when Paul is blinded bythat light and he says, who are

(01:10:29):
you Lord?
Like the last thing he wanted tohear was.
I'm Jesus because in that momenthe had to think I'm a dead man.

JOHN (01:10:38):
Oh, yeah, I'm undone.

BRANDON (01:10:39):
Yeah, but instead of killing him, Jesus gave him
life.
And that's what I felt like.
It's like I deserve to die andyet he's made me more alive than
I've ever been.
And so it was the love of Godthat changed my life.
And I think about one of myfavorite verses is 2 Corinthians
5 14.

(01:11:00):
Where Paul says Christ's lovecompels us, um, you know,
because Jesus died for all, youknow, and, and I'm one of those
all, and, uh, but now to becompelled by God's love is so
much different than beingcompelled by, um, some

(01:11:25):
legalistic burden.
You know, and, and it's such adifferent thing and the intimacy
of God and the presence of Godis something that I never want
to lose now.
Um, whereas before I could havecared less, you know, I didn't
want religion.
I wanted a relationship and thatwas what was in my heart.

(01:11:45):
I just didn't know it.
And, um, you know, and I wastelling you earlier when I, I
went from one day.
You know, being very cynical ofGod and Jesus and The next day,
I didn't understand whyeverybody wasn't wanting to
follow Jesus.
And so I went from being, um,destructive from a standpoint of

(01:12:09):
cynicism to being destructivefrom a standpoint of legalism.
And I was one of these.
I've told people that like ifthe speed limit was 35, I was
going 34, you know, I've, I've

JOHN (01:12:21):
never been that guy.
Yeah.
Thank

BRANDON (01:12:24):
God you have it and, and, and, you know, and I would,
I

JOHN (01:12:27):
would wait, I've been legalistic about stuff.
Now don't get me wrong.
I have, I have, I've, uh, I've.
messed up with, you know, whatit means, what God's grace
really means, but I've neverbeen that guy that says, Oh, the
speed limit is 35.
I'm going 34.
I've never been that guy.
That's how bad

BRANDON (01:12:44):
it got.
And I'm not advocating for thefact that grace gives us the
right to do anything.
Um, but what I am advocating is,is what it says in Titus that
grace teaches us to say no toungodliness.
And so when it's therelationship that changes us,
and so, but I was so legalistic,man.
I was so much, so destructive.

(01:13:05):
I had a passion for the Lord,but I hadn't, and a zeal, but I
had no wisdom.
And I was really like a bull ina china shop, man.
And I'm just, I think I did waymore harm than good in those
days.
And, um, it finally came to ahead one night and I was getting
worn out and exhausted fromtrying to be perfect.
And, um.
It finally came to a head onenight where, um, my wife and I

(01:13:28):
were eating at the dinner table.
I didn't get saved.
I was 24 and we're eating onenight and she had fixed like
cube steak, mashed potatoes andpeas, which makes me really
hungry right now.
Um, and so she, um, had, hadcooked and we're sitting at the
dinner table.
And as usual, I'm complainingabout people who claim to be

(01:13:49):
Christians, but aren't livinglike Christians.
And she said, Brandon, we justhave to love them and be
patient.
And I remember I slammed my handdown on the table.
I mean, just like as hard as Icould.
And I said, that's not goodenough.
And when I did, there's likeEnglish peas rolling across the
table and we kind of both justlooked at each other like, okay,

(01:14:12):
that's over the top.
And I realized that I was kindof at this crossroads of.
I'm either going to have toaccept God's grace and that he
did for me what I can't do formyself, or I'm not going to make
it.
And that was a defining momentin my life.
And there were a couple of booksI read, like one of them was

(01:14:32):
What's So Amazing About Grace byPhilip Yancey.
And that book really impacted mylife to help me understand
grace.
And to help me escape thisperformance trap of legalism.
that robs us of joy.
I think about Galatians 2, wherePaul says, I do not set aside

(01:14:55):
the grace of God for if, youknow, righteousness could be, or
justification could be attained,um, through the law, Christ died
for nothing

JOHN (01:15:04):
for nothing.
That's right.
Oh man,

BRANDON (01:15:06):
what a crazy statement to think that Jesus died for
nothing and how arrogant of meto think that I could, I could
make his death unaffectivebecause of my ability.
It's like, how could I everpossibly think that way?
But I did.

JOHN (01:15:25):
Yeah.
Making little of the cross bydoing that.
Gosh, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, even to talk aboutthe cross.
So we have this, we have this,um, interaction, this, this
dialogue that happens.
Literally while Christ ishanging on the cross with the

(01:15:45):
thief that's there and by God'sgrace he saved him in that
moment when the thief recognizedthat Jesus was who he was.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Right.
And you know, so we getlegalistic on this idea of

(01:16:08):
Understanding the doctrine ofsanctification and going through
and reading our entire Bible.
And we should, you know, I mean,you don't want to run up on
Zephaniah when you're in heavenone day and him go, Hey, how'd
you like my book?
And you'd be like, uh, You wrotea book.
I didn't see, you know, and

BRANDON (01:16:28):
that response is kind of like the, the response to the
book.
I wrote, I wrote a book called abetter story.
And so that's what every, that'severybody else's response to me
when you ask is, yeah, like youwrote a book.
And so it's funny every now andthen I'll look at my bank
account and it'll say like, It'slike a deposit of 250 or

(01:16:49):
whatever and I'm like, where didthat come from?
And it's like contentdistribution.
I'm like, somebody brought abook but yeah, you don't wanna
get there and it's like, um, sohow did you, how did you like,
you know, the, the, what, what,what the Holy Spirit inspired me
to write and you're like, tellme who you are again.

(01:17:09):
Yeah, right, right,

JOHN (01:17:10):
right.
Yes, I mean, yes.
So, we should, we should read,we should read our Bible.
It's, it's there.
It's, it is our.
It is our manual for life,right?
And then, this interaction likeyou and I are having right now,
it's how we're taking whatwe've, what we've gone through,
and we've read, and how the HolySpirit is, is helping us to, to
understand it, and then we talkthrough it, together with

(01:17:32):
another believer, to come to aplace where we understand it
better, so we can grow closer toGod.
Like, his goal, through thewhole thing, is us having
intimacy with him.
You know, and, I, I, I mean, youcan, you can go back and look at
the story of creation.
Mm-hmm How God made everything,the, the, the, uh, the order

(01:17:56):
that he made everything in, andhe made this world so we would
have a domain to live in.
Yeah.
And his, you know.
He did that because out of, outof his love for us, right?
Think about, think aboutbringing, uh, um, think about
bringing a new baby home fromthe, from the hospital, you

(01:18:18):
know, or, or welcoming a newchild into your, into your life.
Yeah.
You make preparation to do that.
Yeah.
You know, you don't just.
You don't just not prepare forit.
Now, I mean, of course there aretimes where, you know, maybe,
maybe some people prepare a lot.
That's right.

(01:18:39):
And maybe some people just makesure they have somewhere for the
thing to sleep, right?
The thing.
You know, but, um, Butregardless, you, you, you try to
prepare.
So I heard you had the, I heardyou had a thing.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
Congrat, congratulations on the,on the thing there, you know,
that, that thing.
But anyway, it's, um, you know,it's, it's, when we look at

(01:19:04):
that, we can, we can gain a, a,a better understanding of how
much he loves us, right.
That, that he, he created aplace for us that was perfect by
the way.
And, um, And, and just it's,it's, it is, it's overwhelming

(01:19:24):
to think about it truly isoverwhelming to think about, you
know, I did a, um, I did a, um,a Bible study, I guess is the
best way to, to what, what, whatto call it.
Um, Um, when I was younger, Iwas in my 20s and I did it by
myself and it was, it wasdesigned to go through with

(01:19:46):
other people, but I just, youknow, didn't, didn't have the
opportunity to go through itwith other people.
So I went through it by myselfand it was called experiencing
God, uh, by Blackaby.
And um, man, that, that broughtabout a radical change in my
life because, um, A really closefriend of mine.

(01:20:07):
He was my pastor at the time.
His name is Wes Moy.
Yeah, I know Wes really well.
He did more for my spiritualdevelopment than anybody has in
my entire life.
And that's not to, that's not tosay, you know, somebody else
didn't, wasn't trying or didn't,didn't do the things that they
should do.
He was, God had him in a placeat a time where And I was, I was

(01:20:33):
listening like I had beenbrought to a place where I was
like, okay, this is supposed tobe different.

BRANDON (01:20:38):
Yeah.
There was kind of a hunger.
Yeah.
You hunger there.
Yeah.

JOHN (01:20:41):
And Wes came alongside me and man, he helped to, to grow
me in ways that I didn't evenknow were possible.
Yeah.
And I remember going throughthat study and just this radical
change that I had in my lifeabout, you know, What it, what

(01:21:03):
it even looks like.
Yeah.
Because I, I had no, I had noclue, man.
I, I was just, I was just goingthrough life.
Yeah.
I was just happy to be there.

BRANDON (01:21:11):
Yeah.

JOHN (01:21:12):
You know?

BRANDON (01:21:12):
Well, and, and it's so, it's a little bit daunting and
can be intimidating, right.
When you look at the Bible andI'm, I'm looking at yours right
now.
There's a lot of pages there.

JOHN (01:21:25):
Yeah, sure.

BRANDON (01:21:26):
And.
To begin to read, and I know forme, it was almost like scripture
was just a bunch of disjointed,um, thoughts.
And so I, I didn't realize thatit all told one story.
And you mentioned creation.
And, you know, it begins in aperfect place, and when you get

(01:21:47):
to the end of the Bible, it endsin a perfect place.
And everything in between is howGod, It brings it back to the
perfection that he desired andhow he rescues the world and
redeems the world and, um,brings it back to what he wants
it to be.
But until you really startreading it and especially in

(01:22:11):
community with other people, um,it doesn't start connecting.
And what I found is the longeryou read the Bible, it's like
these dividers begin to come outof scripture and it all begins
to connect and you begin to see,okay, this isn't separated from
this, this is actually connectedto this, and this is, and it all

(01:22:34):
begins to be one story, um, ofall these books written by 40
plus authors that tells onestory about one man, Who would
come to redeem and, uh,reconcile the earth and the
entire creation back to theFather.
And, like, the odds of that, thecoincidence of that, it, I mean,

(01:22:57):
it takes more faith to me now tonot believe it's true than To
believe it is true.
Well, I mean, that's like,

JOHN (01:23:07):
you know, to look at creation and to believe that it
came from a mud puddle.
Oh gosh, man.
Yeah.
You know, that, that takes,yeah, I don't,

BRANDON (01:23:17):
yeah,

JOHN (01:23:18):
like, I don't want to push somebody away, but at the same
time, it's like, man, I just, Ican't go there.
I can't, I can't, I can't fathomthat.
I can't understand that, youknow, how did all these things
come from?
You know this single cell andeven

BRANDON (01:23:34):
that's a leap of faith because it's not fully
explainable, right?
Like it's not like it's afoolproof scientific thing that
we know this happened.
I mean, there's still missingparts to it They still don't
understand aspects of it.
Like how did this happen?
We believe this happened, buthow did this happen?
I mean, we can't even predictthe weather for tomorrow.
How are you gonna tell me whathappened 10 million years ago,

JOHN (01:23:56):
right?
Yeah, yeah, I'm

BRANDON (01:23:58):
like You know, I, I just, I have a harder time
believing that than I do when Ilook at creation for me to
believe that there's a creationwithout a creator that
borderlines on just sticking myhead in the sand and denying
what's obvious.
I think

JOHN (01:24:17):
so.
Yeah, I think it does too.
Uh, I'm late, I'm reading a bookright now by, um, Lee Strobel.
Yes.
It's called is, is, uh, is Godreal?
I think is the title of thebook.
It's, um.
I just started reading it.
Um, but man, he's, he was, uh, Iwant to say this, right?

(01:24:38):
I think he was an investigativejournalist,

BRANDON (01:24:40):
maybe in Chicago, in Chicago.
Yeah.

JOHN (01:24:43):
And, um, has a background in law to some degree, maybe
some, some, um, training in law.
And, and he, he takes it from avery, you know, It either is or
it isn't kind of standpoint andI love that like, man, it's,
it's, it's been really cool toread through so far.

BRANDON (01:25:04):
Yeah.
You know, Lee Strobel, Ibelieve, you know, he wrote the
case for Christ.
There's a whole series of bookshe's written and I love it
because the way he approaches itfrom that investigative
standpoint.
But I believe, um, this iscorrect that he started out to
disprove Christianity.

(01:25:24):
Right.
Yeah.
And ended up convincing himselfthat it was true.

JOHN (01:25:28):
Well, he, he looked at it from a, from, I mean, he was
investigating it.
Yeah.
And I wish I had the book withme right now.
I'd, I'd share, you know, his,his, he has a 20 word prayer.
He encourages everybody to, to,to pray.
He said, even if you don't knowwho you're praying to.
Yeah.
I asked this prayer and it'slike, um, man, I just, I wish I
had it.
I'll, I'll, um, I'll have topost something up on, on some

(01:25:51):
social media somewhere, I'll,I'll put it in the comments of,
of the, uh, of the podcast here,but it was just, you know,
basically, uh, you know, um, If,if you're, if you're real and
you want me to know you help,help me to help me to see
basically is kind of the, kindof the spirit of the prayer.

(01:26:13):
And, um, he just invites peopleto come to the table and look at
the evidence, you know, he'slike, listen, I'm not trying to
convince you one way or theother.
I went into this.
Thinking that I was going toprove that there was not a God,
you know, that's what, that'show he started out his quest was
he was going to prove there wasnot.
And he said, the evidence just

BRANDON (01:26:36):
is overwhelming.

JOHN (01:26:37):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So I would, I would definitely,I'm not all the way through the
book, but I've read enough of itto say I would recommend that
book.

BRANDON (01:26:45):
Yeah.
And if you want to start with areally short read about that,
there's a book called more thana carpenter.
And it's, it's a really smallbook, but it talks about the
evidence for Jesus and the proofof Jesus's life, death, and
resurrection.

(01:27:05):
And so many things undeniable,you know, Christianity is
really, to me, the only religionyou don't have to check your
mind at the door, um, tobelieve.
Um, it's also the only religionthat.
That doesn't tell us we have towork our way to God, that God,
he came to us, right?
Yeah, it's a completelydifferent, um, um, but yeah, I

(01:27:29):
mean, Christianity has, has, anddoes stand up to the toughest
criticisms.
Um, you know, and so it's, it'ssomething that, uh, our
intellect does, doesn't have tobe separated from our faith.
When it comes to Jesus.

JOHN (01:27:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, so we've talked about,we've talked about lessons from
the season.
We've talked about how we needto, we need to make pivots
throughout hunting season andwhat that looks like.
And because we have a goal inmind, our goal is to, is, is to
harvest, you know, to put meaton the table.
Right.
And to have, have fruit fromour, from our labor.

(01:28:13):
And then we've looked at, um,How you and I both have need to
make pivots in our, in our livesand in our, in the way we
approach God, what we, the waywe view God, right.
And, and realizing that althoughwe're chasing an animal out
there, we don't have to chaseGod because he's not moving.

(01:28:36):
Right, right.
He is, he, he, he is where heis.
And he invites us to come tohim, right?
In fact, he pursues us.
Right.

BRANDON (01:28:48):
Yeah, that, that, uh, poem, um, it's called The Hound
of Heaven.
Yeah.
And it talks about God's pursuitof us.
I think that is such anincredible thing, especially as
a hunter and someone who lovesdogs, is to picture God as the
Hound of Heaven who is inpursuit of his people that he
loves.

(01:29:09):
Um.
Cause I know it, man, if it wereme, man, like after day seven,
they eat that fruit, man, I'mlike, I'm just blowing that
thing up.
I'm like, it only took me sevendays to make it.
I'll just make a new one.
You know what I mean?
And like he did, he continued topursue and he had a plan from

(01:29:31):
before the creation.
To reconcile it back to himself.
Yeah, that's so amazing.

JOHN (01:29:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's, I think it's, um,it is overwhelming to me to look
at it.
It's overwhelming to understandthe holiness of God.
How, how, how he is set apart.
He's completely different.
He is separate from creationbecause he is the creator,
right?
I mean, we can think about.

(01:29:59):
Making something, you know,getting a piece of wood and
making something.
Well, I never become a part ofthat creation.
Right.
Because I made it.
Yeah.
Um, and, um, you know, so thatis kind of a way to look at the
holiness of God is that he,like, he's not bound by time.
Like we are, you know, it's init, in it, It can sometimes feel

(01:30:26):
confusing to go through it andto look at it, but at the basis
of it all, what we need tounderstand is he loves us and
wants that relationship with us,period.
Right?
I mean, that, that's somethingthat, that we need to look at.
One of my favorite verses is,uh, from the book of Titus.

(01:30:47):
And if you want a book So topick up and read, read Titus,
it's three chapters, it's shortand it is rich with how to live,
right?
And in the book of Titus inchapter three, he says, remind
them to be subject to rulers andauthorities, to obey, to be
ready for every good work, tospeak evil of no one, to be

(01:31:08):
peaceable, gentle, showing allhumility to all men.
And then this is where it reallyhits the road.
It says for we ourselves werealso once foolish.
Disobedient, deceived, servingvarious lusts and pleasures,
living in malice and envy,hateful and hating one another.
But when the kindness and thelove of God our Savior toward

(01:31:33):
man appeared, everythingchanged.
All right.
Yeah.
That, that, but, but God steppedin, you know, and so when we
look at that.
So, when we look at that idea ofchurch and what we expect it to
be and, you know, whether weexpect it that, that, that we
should go in and suit and tiesand be picking up a hymn book

(01:31:53):
and singing and worshiping Godin that way, or if, if we go in
wearing a t shirt and bluejeans, you know, what God's
looking at is our heart.
That's what he sees.
And if we want to be men andwomen after God's heart, what
our desire should be is to.

(01:32:14):
Love what God loves and hatewhat God hates.
That's right.
God hates evil.
Yeah.
God loves people.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
It's that simple.
It can be distilled down to thatsimple of a concept.
Yeah.
You know, he loves people somuch that he, he created a place
for us to live.
He loved people so much that hesacrificed his son to, Bridge

(01:32:36):
that gulf that there was nothingwe could ever do to reach him
because he's set apart becausehe's holy and we are sinful.
Right?
So something had to happen.
Um, so if we can distill it downto that point to where we love,
we love people.
And we hate and we shun evil,it'll, it'll, it'll change the

(01:32:58):
way we look at life.
I know it has for me,

BRANDON (01:33:00):
you know, I mean, even Jesus taking all the law and
prophets and summarizing it intotwo, two commands of love the
Lord, your God, with all yourheart, soul, mind, and strength
and love your neighbor, prettymuch exactly what you say, you
know, and he made it so simpleand not that it's easy, but.

(01:33:21):
Um, with him, it's, it'spossible, you

JOHN (01:33:25):
know,

BRANDON (01:33:25):
without him,

JOHN (01:33:27):
it's not, yep, yep, that's right.
That's right.
All right.
Well, good deal.
We're going to wrap it up there.
Thank you guys so much forlistening.
And we had a, we had a good timetalking about this stuff this
morning and really looking athow we can apply so much of life
to, um, whether it be hunting orwhatever it is, how it all is
connected.

(01:33:48):
And it gives us an opportunityto grow, uh, grow in our
relationships with each otherand, uh, definitely to grow in
our relationship with God andjust looking, looking for, you
know, being, um, beingintentional about how we go
through life, right?

(01:34:08):
That's kind of the, the pointof, of our discussion today is
when we are intentional aboutthings, the way that it changes.
Uh, everything about who we are,uh, and what God's desire is for
our life and, uh, what ourdesire should be for our life
and for the lives of others.
Uh, so we appreciate you guyslistening and, uh, uh, follow

(01:34:31):
along, comment in the commentsection down, uh, in the, uh,
in, in the podcast notes there,you can comment there or you can
comment on social media.
And, uh, let us know what youwant us to be talking about.
Any topics that you want us tolook at, any questions that
you've got about anything thatwe've said.
Um, Brandon and I are, we're anopen book on this stuff.

(01:34:53):
If you want to, even if you'rehere local and you wanna come
sit down and talk with us.

BRANDON (01:34:57):
Yeah,

JOHN (01:34:58):
man, reach out, you know, and, uh, and let's, let's do it
because, um, we, we wanna beintentional about this and, uh,
we're just, we're thankful forthe opportunity to, to, uh, come
into your day with, with, uh,with this discussion.
So thanks again for listening,guys.
God bless and we'll catch younext time.

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Ep. 18 - A call to pivot and the life giving truth of an un-changing God.

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