August 7, 2025 • 43 mins
Hi This is Brad Weisman - Click Here to Send Me a Text Message
Daryl Black shares his framework for empowering leaders to bring order to chaos, drawing on his experience in disaster response and corporate settings. His approach transforms toxic leadership and micromanagement into autonomous teams that thrive under pressure.
• Building leadership skills through practical experience rather than traditional training programs
• Applying emergency response principles to corporate challenges
• The three pillars of effective leadership: self-mastery, productivity, and influencing others
• Why "ships don't sink because of water around them, they sink because of water that gets in"
• The common mistake of promoting technical experts without leadership training
• How to implement the 1-3-1 Method for team problem-solving and autonomy
• Setting clear expectations and decision-making boundaries for team members
• Leading upward effectively when facing obstacles from higher management
• Transitioning from command-and-control to a chain of support leadership model
Connect with Daryl on LinkedIn at Daryl D Black or Instagram @DDBleadership and mention "Team Brad" to receive his leadership guide. Check out his podcast "Lead from the Inside Out" and YouTube channel at dddtube.com for more leadership resources.
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
from real estate to the market as a whole, which
then sometimes will affect the10.
Right, you know the real lifewe all learn in different ways.
If you think about it, waynedyer might not attract everybody
and everything in between.
Mission was really to helppeople just to reach their full
potential the brad weisman showand now your host, brad Wiseman.
(00:26):
All right, we're back.
Yes, we are back for anothershow.
This is just so fun.
You know.
We're lucky to be able to dothis.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, don't you think so?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I see you shining.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I love to see you.
Do I need makeup?
Do I need powder or something?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
No, no no, no, just shining your curiosity and
you're, you're just desire tolearn more.
It is fun, right?
We always learn every show.
We have a really good guesthere.
He's not in the studio, whichis just as great, it's all good.
He's actually from Canada and,uh, I've been looking at his
information for a while.
(01:00):
We we are had somebody thattalked to us about him and I
said this guy seems like the guyto have on.
He's all about like dealingwith chaos and crisis and things
like that within companies andwith other things, and actually
what really caught me was thisit says Darrell Black eliminates
toxic leadership andmicromanagement in high growth
organizations by empoweringleaders I like this part Leaders
(01:20):
of leaders to bring order tochaos in their professional and
personal lives.
Let's talk to Darrell about howthis happens.
His name is Darrell Black, bythe way, darrell, how you doing
man?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I am doing really, really well.
Thank you so much for having meand, before we jump even too
far into, I want to commend youfor the amazing work that you're
doing.
Just getting the word out andthe type of guests that you have
and the reach, and I know it'snot easy and it's not always
rewarding.
So I just want to take thatopportunity right off the bat
and just you know, thank you fordoing what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh, thank you, and thank you for being here and
thank you for being that.
Your, your, your bio is uniqueand your your whoever the guy
that was pushing you out here Ithink it was Devin is his name
that that's working to get yourword out and you're just stuff
that hits me here was was this?
We're going to start right offwith this.
It's your.
Leadership includes ongoingdisaster response to wildfires,
(02:17):
floods and major emergencies,where you build high performing
teams under extreme pressure.
This is a different resume.
I mean, what did you go toschool for?
Chaos or what?
What?
What was your?
What was your?
Uh, your your school?
I don't even know.
It's not even hard tounderstand how you learn this
stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, thank you, and and taking those lessons I
learned and continue to learnthere and applying them to the,
to the corporate environment.
And so you know, probably thethe most um succinct way of me
putting it is it was uh year2000 and I was with volunteer
search and rescue and I wasworking full-time as an it
project management, uh managerfor a large Canadian
(03:01):
telecommunications companyhappened to be the largest but
um, and we got a call.
It was a Friday night and itwas 5 20 PM, and um, there was a
tornado that ripped through acampground in central Alberta,
so the province I'm in, andthere was as many as a hundred
to 150 people missing andpresumed deceased.
And so we get the call, and um,so we make the drive there, and
(03:27):
so on.
And so we get the call, and um,so we make the, the drive there
, and so on, so forth, and um,with any kind of response.
There's a briefing, so you gothere and you just try to get a
lay of the land.
You're just, the information isuh, sparse.
At the best of times you'realready feeling the energy of
the stress, the, the life flight, helicopters are coming and
going, screaming.
You know all of all of thethings that you can imagine.
And when I received the briefing, brad I the uh, the campground
(03:49):
was just down a hill and so Iactually hadn't seen the sound,
seen the, the destruction.
Yet you kind of go in there,you get your info and they're
like okay, you're going to be incharge of this particular part,
so searching the, the debrisfield, as it's called.
So, yeah, roger that.
So then I remember I walked, Iwas like, okay, before I head
back to brief the team andfigure out what we're going to
do, I remember distinctlywalking to the crest of the hill
(04:12):
and it was like um, you knowjust one of those defining
moments in your life where it'slike holy smokes, you look
through it and and the tornadohad cut a for lack of better
word a perfect swath acrossright through the campground.
You could see exactly theboundaries.
It jumped the lake and then,across the lake, it also wiped
out a bunch of things.
And you know, at that momentall you can do is take a couple
(04:35):
of deep breaths, yeah, and thenjust say, okay, let's get her
done.
And then that was that reallystarted me down the road of okay
, I do this all the time.
I do it in corporate world aswell big projects where you're
not even sure where to start.
And so I really, at that pointin particular, I was like, okay,
there has to be some throughlines here, there has to be a
critical path that I can followthat will allow me to handle my
(04:58):
own stress, make decisions inthe moment with bad information,
no information, build teamsfrom people that I'd never met
and go do high performing stuff.
Right, there's no time to do awhitewater rafting trip to build
a team, there's no opportunityto be like, hey, you know what,
let's meet about this over thecourse of three weeks.
And so that began my journey ofreally sitting down and saying,
(05:22):
ok, what is what I consider,brad, that what I call the
minimal viable effort, whatmoves the needle the most, the
least amount of effort in theleast amount of time, because,
you know, shit gets real awfullyfast.
And those are the things thatI've taken and and really
distilled down.
And, as I said, I continue topractice in emergency management
and I do executive andleadership coaching.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Wow, what a unique way of looking at things and a
unique way of grabbing thatinformation.
Because, yeah, in the corporateworld, obviously it's not
life-threatening typically, okay, and it's not like you're
looking over that cliff to downto the carnage that you probably
saw.
But in corporate world there'scarnage, it's just different
(06:05):
kinds of carnage, it's differenttypes of a swath of devastation
.
It could have been the last CEOthat created the swath of
devastation.
I mean, we see this all thetime.
I know right now, jaguars isgoing through some serious
changes.
They've lost a lot of theirbusiness and a lot of their
clients because of a differentpath in their marketing and
(06:26):
things like that.
Somebody's got to clean that up, you know, and it's the same
thing.
I mean, that's the way I lookat it too.
So, and what's interesting,what you said is that you know,
in those moments that youexplained of being there is you
don't have.
There's no rah-rah, there's no.
Oh, I'm going to get to knowthe person next to me.
It is just you're going by theseat of your pants, but you have
(06:48):
to also be organized.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And one thing I did realizeearly, fortunately, when I first
started my leadership journeyand I don't know if it's the
same for yourself, but when Igot into leadership positions,
when I was, frankly, I wasrunning organizations when I was
18, 19, I thought it was allabout me.
I'm like, oh, or, you know, itwas about me, but basically
telling others what to do, andif there was a problem, well,
(07:11):
obviously they're the problem,like it's not me.
And I realized, thankfullypretty quick, to be like you
know what, um, it starts withyou, my friend, like leadership
and interactions, and and, uh,you are essentially your team.
How it interacts with you is areflection of you, not a
reflection of the team.
And so I realized that earlythat I have to get my own stuff
(07:34):
together.
I have to manage my ownemotions, my own stress, I have
to figure out how to communicate, I need to be a better listener
, all of these other things toeven start navigating what that
uncertainty looks like.
Because you're a hundredpercent correct, the one
constant in today's world ischange, and we just I think we
(07:55):
can't avoid it, and so youbetter learn how to navigate
through it.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, exactly, it's very interesting.
Now let's go back to what didyou start in?
I mean, you don't start out indoing disaster response and
wildfires.
I mean, to what did you startin?
I mean, you don't start out indoing disaster response and
wildfires.
I mean what?
What did you start out doing?
Well, I can't wait to hear this.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, Lower, lower the bar of expectations because
it was nothing that was earthshattering.
I joined volunteer search andrescue when I was 18 years old
and again I started with thetelecommunications company
around the same time and workedmy way to project management and
did some massively expensive ITprojects while at the same time
(08:35):
a parallel path of doingvolunteer search and rescue.
And then I started to get paidto teach search and rescue stuff
.
And and something that wasalways interesting to me with
leadership was it was neverabout ego, thankfully, uh, or at
least it rarely was it was, forme, about the level of impact.
I'm like you know what I wantto affect change.
How can I do that?
So, inherently, I would justcontinue to learn.
(08:57):
I had a growth mindset and theneventually in 2006, hurricane
kat hit um or 2005.
And um, uh, I was still workingfull time.
I had kind of really greatopportunities with the six
figures and all that other funstuff and I was teaching and
using my holidays to do teachingand all of that stuff.
And um did hurricane Katrina uh, headed down there, for I think
(09:22):
it was about 10 days and weoperated out of Mississippi and
Louisiana and then HurricaneRita hit a few weeks after that,
which not a lot of peopleremember because Katrina was so
devastating.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Did that hit the same spot?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Roughly.
It hit the Gulf Coast, but itwas more impacting of Texas and
Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Gotcha.
I kind of do remember that now.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And and so somewhere in there I decided you know what
, at the end of the day I wantto go and do this other stuff.
I've always been one of servicelook for the helpers, wanting
to help others who couldn't helpthemselves.
And it just reached that pointin my life.
That inflection point said hey,you know what?
It was never about the business, it sounds so cliche, but it
(10:06):
was about the good work and Iknew I could earn a you know
some money off of it.
But you know, like, like Iwould show up on a Monday, for
example, monday morning, and Ihad just done a search and
rescue, or search and recovery,to be frank, of maybe a 13 year
old kid or something.
And then Monday you go into workand your threshold for what is
stressful and not and what'spressure and what's important,
(10:27):
it just naturally changes youand uh, and I just made the
decision and when I got backfrom katrina to leave the, the
big telecommunications company,and and um, multi-million dollar
projects, and I still do a lotof that on on an ongoing basis,
the, the project management, andstill very much connected to
the corporate world, but I'malso still very connected to the
(10:48):
emergency management world.
As recently as a week and ahalf ago operating doing
evacuations 300 people for awildfire in Northern Canada
across one of Canada's largestrivers.
So I still very much.
That's a part of me and it willnever go away.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, obviously you're good at it and then you
have passion for it and I thinkthat's something you can't fake.
You know what I mean?
You don't fake that kind of ajob or contribution because
there's nothing really in it,there's nothing glorious in it
for you it, but it is in a way,it's it fulfilling something for
you.
But that's that's incredible.
And it is amazing that theparallels between you know
(11:29):
putting out fires incorporations and and that's what
you do, you coach, you coach onthis, you coach on leadership,
on, on, and I love here in inthe thing.
In the beginning, you talkabout empowering leaders of
leaders.
We're hearing more and moreabout this, about you know
leaders are supposed to becreating other leaders, not
(11:52):
followers.
You know, and I'm sure youtrain on that stuff.
So tell me what's the big thingthat you're working on now as
far as leadership and coaching,like, what are you seeing out
there?
What are people needing ascompanies?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about
that, and for me, I have anorder to chaos framework that is
born from all of the years andI continue to fine tune it and
all those and I use it.
So, for me, I'm talking adnauseum about the three pillars
that I consider make up, youknow, leadership, if you will,
(12:23):
and so my first pillar is what Icall self mastery.
So I alluded to it earlier.
Where, you know, for me toinfluence others and to move
through the world, particularlyan uncertain world, I have to
have my own stuff together, andso that means I need to be able
to manage my stress very, verywell and manage it in the moment
(12:45):
too.
Right, there's so manystrategies out there mindfulness
, which I'm a huge fan of,meditation, cold plunges, all of
which I do but none of thatactually helps you in the moment
when you are faced with makinga decision, for example.
So one of the things I thinkabout often is that adage of I'm
gonna butcher it, but it's the.
You know, the bird doesn't landon a branch because it has
(13:06):
faith in the branch it.
It has faith in its ability tofly.
And so that's what I think aboutany time I go into a new
coaching opportunity or anemergency management.
So that's the first part isself mastery.
The second is I realized thatleaders, of leaders, have to be
(13:26):
super productive.
Have to be super productive.
You know the amount ofoverwhelm that comes with the
to-do list, the amount ofpressure it's coming from all
sides, and so we have to be very, very good at managing our time
, managing our to-do list and,while still maintaining time and
decisional space, to bethinking bigger picture.
So we have to be really good atknocking things off of our list
(13:50):
.
And the third part is what iswe're talking about now?
Is that influencing others?
And a huge part of that is justhow do I build autonomous teams
?
So those are the three areasthat I see, you know, really
lacking in this in this day andage of ours.
And so how do we, how do we getour own shit together, how do
we get shit done and how do weherd cats?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
essentially, and pardon the Canadian language
there, but oh, I didn't knowshit was Canadian.
I didn't know that.
Did you know that Hugo Neverknew that was Canadian?
Thank God we're not licensed bythe FCC, we're good.
We're good, we can say whateverwe want.
Oh, that's really interesting.
So if somebody comes to you, isit companies that come to you?
(14:35):
Is it CEOs that are coming toyou?
They come to you.
Are they in crisis when theycome?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, that's the interesting thing.
So, yes, I do corporate clients, and within that, typically the
leaders of leaders includeexecutives, founders, um c-suite
, uh, essentially anyone.
And in terms of the actualdemographic, it's, it's the ceo
or the owner or the leader ofleader in um high growth
(15:02):
industries, typically tech andai, because that's your
stereotypical exploding all thetime and it's revenues of 10
million dollars or more per year.
And in fact, I worked with aclient that has just reported
4.8 billion dollars worth ofrevenue all over the world.
Wow, I will say that does.
That does require brad 4 amcalls, you know, all over the
(15:25):
world, but that's what caffeineis for yeah, that's right.
There's nothing wrong with thatyeah, so by my 6 am I'm a little
the world, but that's whatcaffeine is for.
Yeah, that's right, there'snothing wrong with that.
Yeah, so by my 6am I'm a littlejittery, but that's okay.
So, but at the end of the day,these organizations, no matter
the size, they all grapple withthose same issues.
Right, it's just a different ofscale at that point.
But what I have also realized isthat high growth is exactly
(15:46):
like an incident to me.
All of the characteristics arethe same.
It's now we're outpacing ourcapacity, we're outpacing our
capabilities, we're outpacingour ability to keep control over
everything that's happening,and with that lack of control,
that triggers stress, thattriggers overwhelm, that
(16:07):
triggers sleepless nights andall those other things.
And so the parallel is like so,so close, with that high growth
industry and markets and allthose things, with responding to
a wildfire or flood orearthquake or whatever it's.
It's actually.
It's very interesting becausethen, once you strip away the
circumstances, at the end of theday we're all in the people,
business and uh, and.
(16:29):
And just to add another point tothat, my lived experience
dealing with literally thousandsof leaders is that we promote
because let's say you're, let'ssay hugo, for instance, right,
uh, hugo, who we?
We talked about a littleearlier before we were recording
.
So hugo is really good at uhcoding, let's say really good
(16:51):
computer programmer.
So then what we do typically iswe'll promote hugo because he's
good at that, right?
So then next thing, you know,we give hugo yourself and maybe
three others.
So hugo is now the leader ofthat group.
And now it's not about thecoding, it's not about you know
what language are we using, it'snot about the coding, it's not
about you know what language arewe using, it's now the people
(17:11):
part.
And then just to compound that,what we do for poor Hugo is
we're like hey, here's moremoney, so you kind of have to
take the job, like if you wantto provide for your family,
that's your incentive, even ifyou don't want to, um.
And then, uh, yeah, hugo, um,we're not going to give you any
training for that, but my dooris always open, like Hugo, come
(17:32):
and see me whenever you wantOpen door policy.
So Hugo finally is like OK, I'mjust done, I can't, I don't
know what to do about this poorperformer, or everyone needs me
to do everything.
So they go talk to Hugo's bossand Hugo's boss Like I'm so
sorry, I'm really busy.
You can figure it out, hugo,you're a smart guy, you're a
smart guy, you.
(17:52):
If you need anything else, letme know.
And then Hugo is scar tissuelearning, ping, ponging off what
doesn't work, maybe he'sYouTubing or, in some cases,
worse, he takes supervisorytraining through his HR
department and no disrespect,but that's a different kind of
animal that we're talking about.
And then Hugo is stressed, he'slosing hair, all of the things.
(18:16):
He's not able to sleep, andthen he may end up just
struggling through.
And then he gets anotherpromotion.
And I'm here to tell you thatit is amazing to me how many
people achieve senior levels oforganizations that have to
struggle through the leadershippart of it because it's scar
tissue learning.
(18:36):
They haven't had theopportunity to be told hey,
these are the things thatactually matter to you, not all
of this other.
What's the signal and what'sthe noise?
And so I that's the part thatthat I uh find really, really
interesting, because we promotepeople that are good at things,
uh, but we forget that as theygo up through the, the support
(18:58):
chain, it's about people, it'snot about widgets or coding, and
and we don't acknowledge that,or if we acknowledge it, we
don't do much about it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
We don't train for it .
We don't train in thatsituation.
We'll keep using hugo's'll keepusing.
Hugo as the guinea pig here.
But in that situation and thathappens a lot, in fact we've had
other people on the show thatwe've talked about this kind of
stuff too.
And actually even in my worldI'm a part owner of a franchise
for Keller Williams and we gothrough this, we automatically.
And we go through this, youknow, we just think.
(19:27):
We automatically think, becausesomebody's he's the best coder,
that now, because we need morecoders, that he's going to run
the coding department and maybeHugo doesn't even want to do
that.
You know, we don't even thinkabout it.
You know, and I think and yeah,you give them more money, but
at the end of the day, they'renot trained how to lead people,
(19:48):
and that's a completelydifferent world than making the
widget or doing the coding.
You know, it's such a, it'sinteresting.
So you obviously see that a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I also see with founders a lotand owners.
You know you go into aparticular area like
entrepreneurs.
You go into a particular areaand that's why the tech and AI
space is so interesting, in thatthose folks go into it because
they do have that skill set andthen quickly they burn out
because they're there.
It's not about any of the thingthat they wanted to do, it's
(20:18):
about the, the people part, andI've heard it time and time
again that, uh, same thing onthe sales side, we promote good
sales people to be managers ofsales people, but what got you
here won't get you there.
So what made you really good atsales may or may not be what
will make you a really goodmanager, and so those, those
folks are set up for failure.
(20:39):
And then what ends up happeningis is it becomes a scorched
earth underneath them becausethey just simply don't know how
to navigate the complexities ofhuman interaction and
communication and motivation.
How do we build autonomousteams?
Like they're just overwhelmedand next, you know, hugo's team
has a pit in their stomachdriving into work and it's not
(21:01):
hugo's fault per se.
Um, but that's what ends uphappening and that's where now
people have toxic workplaces,they start calling in sick, they
start doing the bare minimumnow because they don't care
about anything and they'reworried about making decisions
because Hugo will come down onthem really hard Like, well,
something went wrong, why, whatdid you do wrong?
(21:22):
And there's just so many otherways that we can handle all
sorts of different situations inour workplaces.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Just so many other ways that we can handle all
sorts of different situations inour workplaces.
Oh, and that's why, going backto, I think, in in any company
business, we're supposed tocreate leaders, and and and part
of that is is training them howto lead, or or and, and not
everybody can do that either.
I think there's.
We have to realize, too, thatthere's people that are just not
built for that and they don'twant to be built for that.
You know it's, it's stressful,it gives them an ulcer, it gives
(21:54):
them, you know, high bloodpressure, it gives them all
these things because they're notnaturally built for, for doing
that.
Now, how do you?
My thing is this so, if, if youput Hugo in that situation, how
do you?
What do you do then?
What is the best way?
Do you hire a leader instead ofhim leaving the coding
department?
Do you hire somebody that'sgood at leading people, even
though that person might notknow coding that well?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so that's a that's such a great question.
And the leader of leaders.
That is what I focus on for avery particular reason, one of
which, as a frontline leader.
So, let's, hugo is lookingafter, uh, you know, a team of
coders.
We consider that a frontlineleader, so hugo's interactions
and his ability to influence isvery direct.
He's got five people or or youknow whatever it might be.
(22:40):
They could be virtual, maybethey're in person.
Hugo has the ability to reachout personally, say hey, uh, hey
, jane, just wondering if youcan come and chat, let's figure
this out and let's brainstorm,and so on and so forth.
So we can influence verydirectly, both for good or worse
.
But at that level that's moreof tactical level.
(23:01):
So probably the challenges thatJane is having.
Hugo needs to know what's goingon there.
Like you know, hey, hugo, Ijust can't get this particular
issue figured out.
I need some help on it andwe'll talk about a framework
here shortly.
So the quote unquote lower downin the organization, generally
speaking, the more technical andoperational.
(23:22):
Uh, you need to be and haveknowledge of that Now as you go
up through the ranks quoteunquote up through the ranks and
I have some reservations aboutyou even using that phrase, but
your ability to directlyinteract and affect change with
people at the frontline isgreatly diminished.
It's almost like if you picturea bullseye or a bunch of
concentric circles.
(23:43):
You're in the in the middle ofthat concentric circle.
Then that first circle aroundyou is pretty bright.
You're able to reach into itand impact it, influence it.
But as that concentric circlebuilds and more circles happen,
your ability to reach out andinfluence and communicate and
all those things it just startsto diminish.
And so it's a different skillset altogether once again.
(24:06):
So the skill that Hugo uses,even if he managed to be an
amazing manager, is nowdifferent if he now becomes a
director where a bunch of hugosare now reporting to him.
Yeah and so?
Um, the the general thought.
To circle back to your actualquestion is the higher up you
are in the organization,generally speaking, the less
(24:27):
technical or operational youneed to be.
So it's highly situational andthose are kind of the general
rules there.
As you go up through.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It's less about the operational and tactical part,
more around risk management,liability, strategic thinking,
all of those other things andsometimes what happens in those
situations sometimes and I'mjust going to not is the people
below will go.
What does he know?
Or what does she know?
She's never been in thebasement with me or she's never.
He's never been in thissituation.
(25:00):
He doesn't know how to code, sohow?
Why is he telling us what to do?
You know you get that.
Then you get resentment.
You know it's very intense.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I agree with that, and so one of the remedies to
that, because it happens allover the place.
You're a thousand percentcorrect.
That's Canadian math, I suppose, so work with me here.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We use a hundred percent in this country, just so
you know.
Yeah, well, let's not even gothere, right?
I know he's going to say, yeah,but you don't do Celsius.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So you know the the the whole problem is now when
people get to senior levels.
I think what, what, what thequote unquote, rank and file are
actually saying is thatperson's not in touch, that
person's not responsive.
If you look at the underlying,you know the motivation for
saying things like that.
That person doesn't even have aclue what's happening.
(25:56):
That person doesn't even have aclue what's happening.
Now, that's different thansomebody that comes in from a
different department orsomething that says hey folks,
I'm not from this environment,but I can promise you, my job is
to support you.
It's not to command and controlyou, it's to remove barriers.
So you tell me, and I'm goingto put very smart people in
charge and they will be able tohelp you, and when they can't
(26:19):
support you, it's going to getkicked up to me, and I think
that that's that's such animportant point is don't be
arrogant.
When you come in, you'rerecognized.
It is what it is like.
You're not fooling anybody byputting you know tape, you know
here and yeah the you know likeI know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You're so right and that is such a great way.
It's setting the expectation upfront when they, when you come
in and say, hey look guys, Idon't know this, you can code
circles around me.
In fact, I didn't know whatcoding really means, but I do
know how to to set up systems, Iknow how to manage a company
and I'm looking to you guys toto help me with this.
(26:57):
You know, and I think sometimes, if you're transparent and set
expectations up front, thatwould make a much better
situation than coming in andbeing you know, I'm the, I'm the
leader, I'm the guy, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I appreciate that, brad, because you know one thing
what's worse than coming in and, you know, taking over an area
maybe you're not familiar withis not admitting that you don't
know and kind of bsing your waythrough this fake until you make
it, because what you'llactually find in the real world
for the most part people will belike oh, you know what that's
refreshing.
Yeah, brad, came or let me helpyou that.
(27:31):
And that's exactly what happens.
It's exactly like hey, I get it.
The dude's struggling a bit, hedoesn't understand, so I'm
gonna, I'm gonna help him out.
Yeah, but it also goes back to,I think you know, no matter
what level you're at and this isgoing back to my, my framework
our ability to build teams is iscritical to our success, it's
critical to retaining top talent, all of those other things, and
(27:53):
so there's a five step processthat I go through no matter what
level I'm in, and it's it'ssomething that I just use by
default.
So even as recently as as lastsummer, I was in a big national
park, big wildfire.
So what I do is during myspring and fall, I'm coaching,
doing my executive leadership,programming and all that fun
(28:14):
stuff, my podcast and blah, blah, blah list goes on.
During the summers, I reservethat time for responding because
I continue, I want to continueto be on the front line and
engaged to help.
It also allows me to staycurrent and, um, you know, I
have a particular experiencelevel that is pretty helpful.
So, um, so, as recently as lastsummer well, heck, even as
(28:38):
recently as, as I said, a weekand a half ago but this
particular case in the nationalpark, a huge wildfire and uh
five, I was there for five weeksand I would have teams rotating
in every seven to ten days andand not just a full team.
So so, once again, I'm throwninto the fact okay, I have to
build teams rapidly and there'sa lot of pressure, all those
(29:01):
other things, and so the processI go through it's five steps,
and I would encourage folks, nomatter what level you're at, to
go through this team building.
So, if I may, if I can gothrough it, and maybe that will
help some of your listeners andviewers- so, if I may, if I can
go through it and maybe thatwill help some of your listeners
and viewers.
So the first thing, the firststep in building autonomous
(29:22):
teams and high performing teamsis the saying ships don't sink
because of the water around them, they sink because of the water
it gets in them.
So that's kind of my openingsalvo.
I'm like, hey, folks, like ifwe have our stuff together, you
know it doesn't matter what'shappening out there, and so how
do we navigate and move throughthe world of this chaos and
(29:42):
uncertainty?
I think about that all the time, and that ship could be your
team, it could be you personally, it could be your business unit
, it could be your organization,it could be whatever.
That is so having that in mind.
So then with that comes a veryclear setting of standards and
expectations.
That is so, so importantbecause you know, brad, have you
(30:03):
ever been held to accountableto a standard or expectation
that you didn't know you had?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, and what happens?
It's uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You get pissed off.
Yeah, you get resentment.
You, there's all.
You go through the whole gamut.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And it's not.
You get pissed off.
Yeah, you get resentment.
You there's all.
You go through the whole gamut.
Yeah, absolutely, and and it'snot fair, no, to be frank.
So we want to really set theexpectations around that.
And so with that is is how am I, how do I expect the team to
interact with me?
So one example that that I'veheard over and over again is and
this is holds true for myself Inever want bad news from
(30:38):
someone else.
It's like, if it comes fromthis team, I want to come from
this team.
I don't want to hear it fromanother manager or my boss or
another company say hey, daryl,uh, I heard the things aren't
going well with that, oh, yeah,that is a little trigger for me.
So that's an example.
And we talk about how we'regoing to treat each other.
What kind of values are wegoing to try to follow through,
(31:00):
who do we communicate with?
How do we share information?
So it's that macro.
And then the second thing I doit starts to go in is clarity,
is kindness.
So I spend time, or I'll havesomebody spend time, going
through roles andresponsibilities for everybody
on the team, to which listenersand viewers are like what
(31:21):
they'll a.
They have a job description,daryl, so let's move on to the
next podcast, or they get paid.
They're adults.
I'm not going to babysit them.
Well, I'm here to tell youclarity is kindness.
Maybe it's a review, but whatwe often miss and this is now
the little extra that I'velearned over the years is sure,
we go through job descriptions,but do we often miss and this is
now the little extra that I'velearned over the years is sure,
we go through job descriptions,but do we spend time talking
(31:41):
about your decision makingauthority like hey?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
allowed to decide.
When do you need to come to me,what kind of financial
boundaries, how often do I wantto be communicated with those
kinds of things?
It's not just about the jobdescriptions, about roles,
responsibilities and andindividual expectations.
And then we have an interaction.
So, brad, you can ask mequestions, I can clarify and we
can come to an agreement, beinglike oh, you know what?
(32:06):
You're right, brad, that's agood point, whatever that looks
like, so we do that.
So that's step two.
Step three this is the one Ithink, out of all of the work
that I do and have done andprobably will continue to do,
it's called the DDB, one three,one method, and the one three
one method is is the, the secretsauce for teams.
(32:27):
So the one is a team member andthis is part of the
expectations to implement.
One three, one.
Come to me with one problem orone issue, but it's not Hugo
just coming to me dumpingproblems.
Hey, I got this problem.
You need to fix it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Pump the brakes.
Like what do you mean?
What's the problem?
(32:47):
What's the scope of it?
What's the impact?
Why is it a problem?
All of those other things.
So what tends to happen withfolks, is they upward delegate?
So're like, hey, here's aproblem.
You know, bag of flaming dogpoop, you're the leader take
care of it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, that's exactly it, yeah you need to support me.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, okay, got it.
But so the one is is come tocome with the problem.
Again some due diligence, dosome legwork, uh.
And then the the three are.
Come to me with three options.
Clue one could actually be donothing.
Honestly, what is the impact ofnot doing anything?
So, three options and then onerecommendation.
So come to me with one problemthat's scoped, maybe some root
(33:26):
cause.
Three options and yourrecommendation, and then we go
back and forth a bit and then atthe end of the day we decide
which recommendation to go with.
And here's the beautiful part isnow involvement equals
commitment.
So hugo now has had a part inthe solution.
Yeah, he's been seen, he's beenheard, he's been respected,
(33:49):
he's had access to the boss andwe've had the great conversation
.
We've decided that that's therecommendation.
And then he goes away andthere's some ownership around it
and there's respect.
And one of the big jobsatisfiers, if you want to
attract and retain top talent,is respect and autonomy.
Go away, do your job, I'm goingto leave you alone, but if you
(34:11):
need help I'm here.
And not to confuse that withignoring your high performers
that's a whole different issue.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But we're going to continue to support them.
And then the fifth part of itis leading with empathy.
Empathy Wow, that's not a wordwe used 10 years ago.
It's essentially now changingfrom command and control, which
we're all used to, to a chain ofsupport.
So now I'm not telling you whatyou need to do the
micromanagement part.
I'm telling you what you needto do the micromanagement part.
(34:40):
I'm telling you that I am hereto support you.
I'm removing barriers and whatyou'll see is, if you're
starting to go through thatprocess and I go through it all
the time again, I was just aweek and a half ago it's it's a
very solid framework that I use.
You see people start to exercisetheir, their problem solving
muscles.
You see them take ownership.
(35:01):
You see them loving theopportunity to actually go do
some stuff and selfishly, frommy perspective, it frees me up a
ton.
So if I have five people on myteam, four are doing one, three,
one and they're kicking butt.
You know, inevitably there'sthat fifth person that maybe
isn't.
So that's the person I spendtime with, that's the person I
(35:23):
coach and mentor, and the otherfour, I'm just checking in.
What are you working on?
How can I help and it frees youup to go focus on the big
picture, the strategies and allthat, and and you know you can
satisfy your micromanagement.
You know itch to your heart'scontent, but at least you're
doing it with one person and notfive.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, you know, so there's just so.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So many benefits.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
So I love that, I love that one, three, one.
That is so cool.
It's great because, and also,what you're doing at that moment
is you're teaching that personleadership, because leaders,
leaders have to do exactly whatyou just at told that person
leadership, because leaders,leaders have to do exactly what
you just at told that person tocome to you with.
You said I, you know what's theproblem, give me three possible
.
Was it three?
(36:05):
Um, three options, threeoptions.
And then, though, and then thelast one was what you think,
which way should we go?
Right, and you just you'reteaching them how to lead, right
there.
Yeah, that's exactly it so.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So you're developing them, yes, you're, you're
teaching them how to lead rightthere.
Yep, that's exactly it.
So so you're developing them,you're, you're, you're building
that muscle.
You're building that autonomy,that respect, while, at the same
time, selfishly.
Now, brad, I'm not exhausted atthe end of the day, I can go
home, I can be with my partner,I can be present, I can even
coach, you can even cheer if youwant.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Exactly.
You have so much energy, youcan now cheer.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
You could be the one that they're throwing up there
and twirling.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I would suggest not doing that, but that's all right
.
There is liability involved.
There's definitely liabilityinvolved there.
Yeah, I have one more questionbefore we wrap this up, because
we're almost at 40 minutes here.
By the way, great show, this isawesome.
I mean, Hugo, you can agree,this is great information, Great
show.
I'm really excited about thisand I'm excited for our audience
to to to get some feedback onthis too.
(37:09):
So one of the questions I havehave you ever come into a
situation where you're like, ohshit, the problem is the guy
that hired me Love it.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I love this question.
So here, here's, here's whathappens.
So there's there's a sayingthat I also use a lot is it's
okay to complain up, not tocomplain down, first of all?
So one of the things I do seeis leaders that are stuck in
that middle.
They start throwing their bossunder the bus because it makes
them look OK Like, in otherwords, it's not my decision,
(37:43):
it's yeah, it's like yeah likeI'm just being a good soldier,
which is true to a certainextent.
You know there are certainsituations.
Sure, it's called a chain for areason you know.
Like that, you have a boss,even as a a um, you know startup
.
A lot of times you haveshareholders and all those other
things that this fallacy thatyou don't work for anybody is is
(38:04):
is incorrect.
So this is we call this leadingupwards, and this in itself is
worth a whole podcast itself,but the term is leading upward.
So one of the things that youneed to do, or I would submit to
you, is you need to have theconversation, first and foremost
because give your boss thebenefit of the doubt.
They may not even know it's aproblem, right?
(38:25):
Because you're so good at yourjob, brad, that it doesn't
filter up to them.
They're like, hey, this isgreat.
So having a conversation thatinvolves the behavior, the
emotion and the effect.
So what you do is you come in,hey, if you're my boss, hey,
brad, I'm really concerned aboutthe policy around working from
home.
The effect is it's making ourteam feel a lot more alienated
(38:50):
because there's other teams areallowed to work from home.
So I want to hear your thoughtson that and then you can start
to have the dialogue.
So you're not going into intoguns blazing that, hey, we need
to change this.
You're now opening it up.
That individual is not beingattacked, they're not being
defensive, you're merely justtaking ownership.
Hey, I'm concerned.
Here's what's happening, here'sthe effect.
(39:11):
So, starting there, and thenwhat are your thoughts on that?
And here's the thing You'llactually find in some cases, it
makes sense what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And if nothing else, it will, you'll recognize okay,
I got it.
But then here's the other thing, and you know, just to wrap it
up, one thing I do all the timewhen I deploy or if I'm working
with a client, from that thatmatter, what does right look
like?
So, Brad, if I'm working foryou, that's the first
conversation I have for you andI to work together, for me, to
support you.
What does right look like foryou?
(39:41):
What do you need from me?
Well, daryl, I need a report onFriday, every Friday.
Okay, cool, like I don't care.
Yeah, I get paid to do it, yeah, so, um, hey, you know what?
Or I need us to really focus onthis.
Sounds good, boss.
No problem, I'll go ahead anddo that.
So that's the other part too.
A lot of times we don't havethat interaction or that
(40:02):
discussion with our bosses tostart.
I do that all the time becauseI'm ultimately working for them
and I want their support and Iwant them to look good.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, yeah, that's very good.
Good stuff, man, Good stuff.
So let's, just before we end,before we end the show here,
let's talk about.
You have a podcast and it'scalled lead from the inside out.
Is that correct?
Is it?
Is it?
Is it going to be like thiskind of material?
Is it going to be all?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
like kind of this stuff that you, you were
bringing out.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I focus on leadership andpersonal development and the
convergence thereof, forinstance.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And you also have a YouTube page.
It's youtubecom.
Backslash at Daryl D Black.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, the shortened is ddbtubecom, so all of my a
lot of material there as well.
I'll have a.
I have a guide that's been donea PDF for for your audience,
and so either connect with me onLinkedIn at Daryl D Black, just
connect with me and send me amessage just saying Team Brad,
(41:02):
and I'll send you the guy.
All right, just so I know.
And also on Instagram, becauseall the cool cats are on
Instagram, apparently, notSnapchat.
I'm not on Snapchat, neither amI.
But there you can reach me atDDB leadership.
So give me a follow.
And same thing Send me a DM andsay Team Brad, and I'll send
you the guide.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Awesome man, awesome.
What a great show, greatpodcast.
You definitely have a lot ofinformation and very impressive.
I love the way that youcommunicate and I think you
could really really be animprovement for some people, for
corporations, for companies.
They should be hiring you.
You're doing a great job.
Thank you, yeah, awesome.
There you go.
(41:42):
All right, darrell Black youguys have got to check this guy
out.
Check out his podcast.
It's Elite from the Inside Out,just the leadership stuff and
talking about the differentcrises that happens inside
businesses and things like that.
It's just amazing.
He had a lot of good stuff totalk about.
(42:02):
We will probably have him backagain as long as he comes back.
All right, that's about it.
Thanks for watching us everyThursday at 7 pm.
We'll see you real soon.
from real estate to the market as a whole, which
then sometimes will affect the10.
Right, you know the real lifewe all learn in different ways.
If you think about it, waynedyer might not attract everybody
and everything in between.
Mission was really to helppeople just to reach their full
potential the brad weisman showand now your host, brad Wiseman.
(00:26):
All right, we're back.
Yes, we are back for anothershow.
This is just so fun.
You know.
We're lucky to be able to dothis.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, don't you think so?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I see you shining.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I love to see you.
Do I need makeup?
Do I need powder or something?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
No, no no, no, just shining your curiosity and
you're, you're just desire tolearn more.
It is fun, right?
We always learn every show.
We have a really good guesthere.
He's not in the studio, whichis just as great, it's all good.
He's actually from Canada and,uh, I've been looking at his
information for a while.
(01:00):
We we are had somebody thattalked to us about him and I
said this guy seems like the guyto have on.
He's all about like dealingwith chaos and crisis and things
like that within companies andwith other things, and actually
what really caught me was thisit says Darrell Black eliminates
toxic leadership andmicromanagement in high growth
organizations by empoweringleaders I like this part Leaders
(01:20):
of leaders to bring order tochaos in their professional and
personal lives.
Let's talk to Darrell about howthis happens.
His name is Darrell Black, bythe way, darrell, how you doing
man?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I am doing really, really well.
Thank you so much for having meand, before we jump even too
far into, I want to commend youfor the amazing work that you're
doing.
Just getting the word out andthe type of guests that you have
and the reach, and I know it'snot easy and it's not always
rewarding.
So I just want to take thatopportunity right off the bat
and just you know, thank you fordoing what you do.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh, thank you, and thank you for being here and
thank you for being that.
Your, your, your bio is uniqueand your your whoever the guy
that was pushing you out here Ithink it was Devin is his name
that that's working to get yourword out and you're just stuff
that hits me here was was this?
We're going to start right offwith this.
It's your.
Leadership includes ongoingdisaster response to wildfires,
(02:17):
floods and major emergencies,where you build high performing
teams under extreme pressure.
This is a different resume.
I mean, what did you go toschool for?
Chaos or what?
What?
What was your?
What was your?
Uh, your your school?
I don't even know.
It's not even hard tounderstand how you learn this
stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, thank you, and and taking those lessons I
learned and continue to learnthere and applying them to the,
to the corporate environment.
And so you know, probably thethe most um succinct way of me
putting it is it was uh year2000 and I was with volunteer
search and rescue and I wasworking full-time as an it
project management, uh managerfor a large Canadian
(03:01):
telecommunications companyhappened to be the largest but
um, and we got a call.
It was a Friday night and itwas 5 20 PM, and um, there was a
tornado that ripped through acampground in central Alberta,
so the province I'm in, andthere was as many as a hundred
to 150 people missing andpresumed deceased.
And so we get the call, and um,so we make the drive there, and
(03:27):
so on.
And so we get the call, and um,so we make the, the drive there
, and so on, so forth, and um,with any kind of response.
There's a briefing, so you gothere and you just try to get a
lay of the land.
You're just, the information isuh, sparse.
At the best of times you'realready feeling the energy of
the stress, the, the life flight, helicopters are coming and
going, screaming.
You know all of all of thethings that you can imagine.
And when I received the briefing, brad I the uh, the campground
(03:49):
was just down a hill and so Iactually hadn't seen the sound,
seen the, the destruction.
Yet you kind of go in there,you get your info and they're
like okay, you're going to be incharge of this particular part,
so searching the, the debrisfield, as it's called.
So, yeah, roger that.
So then I remember I walked, Iwas like, okay, before I head
back to brief the team andfigure out what we're going to
do, I remember distinctlywalking to the crest of the hill
(04:12):
and it was like um, you knowjust one of those defining
moments in your life where it'slike holy smokes, you look
through it and and the tornadohad cut a for lack of better
word a perfect swath acrossright through the campground.
You could see exactly theboundaries.
It jumped the lake and then,across the lake, it also wiped
out a bunch of things.
And you know, at that momentall you can do is take a couple
(04:35):
of deep breaths, yeah, and thenjust say, okay, let's get her
done.
And then that was that reallystarted me down the road of okay
, I do this all the time.
I do it in corporate world aswell big projects where you're
not even sure where to start.
And so I really, at that pointin particular, I was like, okay,
there has to be some throughlines here, there has to be a
critical path that I can followthat will allow me to handle my
(04:58):
own stress, make decisions inthe moment with bad information,
no information, build teamsfrom people that I'd never met
and go do high performing stuff.
Right, there's no time to do awhitewater rafting trip to build
a team, there's no opportunityto be like, hey, you know what,
let's meet about this over thecourse of three weeks.
And so that began my journey ofreally sitting down and saying,
(05:22):
ok, what is what I consider,brad, that what I call the
minimal viable effort, whatmoves the needle the most, the
least amount of effort in theleast amount of time, because,
you know, shit gets real awfullyfast.
And those are the things thatI've taken and and really
distilled down.
And, as I said, I continue topractice in emergency management
and I do executive andleadership coaching.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Wow, what a unique way of looking at things and a
unique way of grabbing thatinformation.
Because, yeah, in the corporateworld, obviously it's not
life-threatening typically, okay, and it's not like you're
looking over that cliff to downto the carnage that you probably
saw.
But in corporate world there'scarnage, it's just different
(06:05):
kinds of carnage, it's differenttypes of a swath of devastation
.
It could have been the last CEOthat created the swath of
devastation.
I mean, we see this all thetime.
I know right now, jaguars isgoing through some serious
changes.
They've lost a lot of theirbusiness and a lot of their
clients because of a differentpath in their marketing and
(06:26):
things like that.
Somebody's got to clean that up, you know, and it's the same
thing.
I mean, that's the way I lookat it too.
So, and what's interesting,what you said is that you know,
in those moments that youexplained of being there is you
don't have.
There's no rah-rah, there's no.
Oh, I'm going to get to knowthe person next to me.
It is just you're going by theseat of your pants, but you have
(06:48):
to also be organized.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And one thing I did realizeearly, fortunately, when I first
started my leadership journeyand I don't know if it's the
same for yourself, but when Igot into leadership positions,
when I was, frankly, I wasrunning organizations when I was
18, 19, I thought it was allabout me.
I'm like, oh, or, you know, itwas about me, but basically
telling others what to do, andif there was a problem, well,
(07:11):
obviously they're the problem,like it's not me.
And I realized, thankfullypretty quick, to be like you
know what, um, it starts withyou, my friend, like leadership
and interactions, and and, uh,you are essentially your team.
How it interacts with you is areflection of you, not a
reflection of the team.
And so I realized that earlythat I have to get my own stuff
(07:34):
together.
I have to manage my ownemotions, my own stress, I have
to figure out how to communicate, I need to be a better listener
, all of these other things toeven start navigating what that
uncertainty looks like.
Because you're a hundredpercent correct, the one
constant in today's world ischange, and we just I think we
(07:55):
can't avoid it, and so youbetter learn how to navigate
through it.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, exactly, it's very interesting.
Now let's go back to what didyou start in?
I mean, you don't start out indoing disaster response and
wildfires.
I mean, to what did you startin?
I mean, you don't start out indoing disaster response and
wildfires.
I mean what?
What did you start out doing?
Well, I can't wait to hear this.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, Lower, lower the bar of expectations because
it was nothing that was earthshattering.
I joined volunteer search andrescue when I was 18 years old
and again I started with thetelecommunications company
around the same time and workedmy way to project management and
did some massively expensive ITprojects while at the same time
(08:35):
a parallel path of doingvolunteer search and rescue.
And then I started to get paidto teach search and rescue stuff
.
And and something that wasalways interesting to me with
leadership was it was neverabout ego, thankfully, uh, or at
least it rarely was it was, forme, about the level of impact.
I'm like you know what I wantto affect change.
How can I do that?
So, inherently, I would justcontinue to learn.
(08:57):
I had a growth mindset and theneventually in 2006, hurricane
kat hit um or 2005.
And um, uh, I was still workingfull time.
I had kind of really greatopportunities with the six
figures and all that other funstuff and I was teaching and
using my holidays to do teachingand all of that stuff.
And um did hurricane Katrina uh, headed down there, for I think
(09:22):
it was about 10 days and weoperated out of Mississippi and
Louisiana and then HurricaneRita hit a few weeks after that,
which not a lot of peopleremember because Katrina was so
devastating.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Did that hit the same spot?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Roughly.
It hit the Gulf Coast, but itwas more impacting of Texas and
Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Gotcha.
I kind of do remember that now.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And and so somewhere in there I decided you know what
, at the end of the day I wantto go and do this other stuff.
I've always been one of servicelook for the helpers, wanting
to help others who couldn't helpthemselves.
And it just reached that pointin my life.
That inflection point said hey,you know what?
It was never about the business, it sounds so cliche, but it
(10:06):
was about the good work and Iknew I could earn a you know
some money off of it.
But you know, like, like Iwould show up on a Monday, for
example, monday morning, and Ihad just done a search and
rescue, or search and recovery,to be frank, of maybe a 13 year
old kid or something.
And then Monday you go into workand your threshold for what is
stressful and not and what'spressure and what's important,
(10:27):
it just naturally changes youand uh, and I just made the
decision and when I got backfrom katrina to leave the, the
big telecommunications company,and and um, multi-million dollar
projects, and I still do a lotof that on on an ongoing basis,
the, the project management, andstill very much connected to
the corporate world, but I'malso still very connected to the
(10:48):
emergency management world.
As recently as a week and ahalf ago operating doing
evacuations 300 people for awildfire in Northern Canada
across one of Canada's largestrivers.
So I still very much.
That's a part of me and it willnever go away.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, obviously you're good at it and then you
have passion for it and I thinkthat's something you can't fake.
You know what I mean?
You don't fake that kind of ajob or contribution because
there's nothing really in it,there's nothing glorious in it
for you it, but it is in a way,it's it fulfilling something for
you.
But that's that's incredible.
And it is amazing that theparallels between you know
(11:29):
putting out fires incorporations and and that's what
you do, you coach, you coach onthis, you coach on leadership,
on, on, and I love here in inthe thing.
In the beginning, you talkabout empowering leaders of
leaders.
We're hearing more and moreabout this, about you know
leaders are supposed to becreating other leaders, not
(11:52):
followers.
You know, and I'm sure youtrain on that stuff.
So tell me what's the big thingthat you're working on now as
far as leadership and coaching,like, what are you seeing out
there?
What are people needing ascompanies?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about
that, and for me, I have anorder to chaos framework that is
born from all of the years andI continue to fine tune it and
all those and I use it.
So, for me, I'm talking adnauseum about the three pillars
that I consider make up, youknow, leadership, if you will,
(12:23):
and so my first pillar is what Icall self mastery.
So I alluded to it earlier.
Where, you know, for me toinfluence others and to move
through the world, particularlyan uncertain world, I have to
have my own stuff together, andso that means I need to be able
to manage my stress very, verywell and manage it in the moment
(12:45):
too.
Right, there's so manystrategies out there mindfulness
, which I'm a huge fan of,meditation, cold plunges, all of
which I do but none of thatactually helps you in the moment
when you are faced with makinga decision, for example.
So one of the things I thinkabout often is that adage of I'm
gonna butcher it, but it's the.
You know, the bird doesn't landon a branch because it has
(13:06):
faith in the branch it.
It has faith in its ability tofly.
And so that's what I think aboutany time I go into a new
coaching opportunity or anemergency management.
So that's the first part isself mastery.
The second is I realized thatleaders, of leaders, have to be
(13:26):
super productive.
Have to be super productive.
You know the amount ofoverwhelm that comes with the
to-do list, the amount ofpressure it's coming from all
sides, and so we have to be very, very good at managing our time
, managing our to-do list and,while still maintaining time and
decisional space, to bethinking bigger picture.
So we have to be really good atknocking things off of our list
(13:50):
.
And the third part is what iswe're talking about now?
Is that influencing others?
And a huge part of that is justhow do I build autonomous teams
?
So those are the three areasthat I see, you know, really
lacking in this in this day andage of ours.
And so how do we, how do we getour own shit together, how do
we get shit done and how do weherd cats?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
essentially, and pardon the Canadian language
there, but oh, I didn't knowshit was Canadian.
I didn't know that.
Did you know that Hugo Neverknew that was Canadian?
Thank God we're not licensed bythe FCC, we're good.
We're good, we can say whateverwe want.
Oh, that's really interesting.
So if somebody comes to you, isit companies that come to you?
(14:35):
Is it CEOs that are coming toyou?
They come to you.
Are they in crisis when theycome?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, that's the interesting thing.
So, yes, I do corporate clients, and within that, typically the
leaders of leaders includeexecutives, founders, um c-suite
, uh, essentially anyone.
And in terms of the actualdemographic, it's, it's the ceo
or the owner or the leader ofleader in um high growth
(15:02):
industries, typically tech andai, because that's your
stereotypical exploding all thetime and it's revenues of 10
million dollars or more per year.
And in fact, I worked with aclient that has just reported
4.8 billion dollars worth ofrevenue all over the world.
Wow, I will say that does.
That does require brad 4 amcalls, you know, all over the
(15:25):
world, but that's what caffeineis for yeah, that's right.
There's nothing wrong with thatyeah, so by my 6 am I'm a little
the world, but that's whatcaffeine is for.
Yeah, that's right, there'snothing wrong with that.
Yeah, so by my 6am I'm a littlejittery, but that's okay.
So, but at the end of the day,these organizations, no matter
the size, they all grapple withthose same issues.
Right, it's just a different ofscale at that point.
But what I have also realized isthat high growth is exactly
(15:46):
like an incident to me.
All of the characteristics arethe same.
It's now we're outpacing ourcapacity, we're outpacing our
capabilities, we're outpacingour ability to keep control over
everything that's happening,and with that lack of control,
that triggers stress, thattriggers overwhelm, that
(16:07):
triggers sleepless nights andall those other things.
And so the parallel is like so,so close, with that high growth
industry and markets and allthose things, with responding to
a wildfire or flood orearthquake or whatever it's.
It's actually.
It's very interesting becausethen, once you strip away the
circumstances, at the end of theday we're all in the people,
business and uh, and.
(16:29):
And just to add another point tothat, my lived experience
dealing with literally thousandsof leaders is that we promote
because let's say you're, let'ssay hugo, for instance, right,
uh, hugo, who we?
We talked about a littleearlier before we were recording
.
So hugo is really good at uhcoding, let's say really good
(16:51):
computer programmer.
So then what we do typically iswe'll promote hugo because he's
good at that, right?
So then next thing, you know,we give hugo yourself and maybe
three others.
So hugo is now the leader ofthat group.
And now it's not about thecoding, it's not about you know
what language are we using, it'snot about the coding, it's not
about you know what language arewe using, it's now the people
(17:11):
part.
And then just to compound that,what we do for poor Hugo is
we're like hey, here's moremoney, so you kind of have to
take the job, like if you wantto provide for your family,
that's your incentive, even ifyou don't want to, um.
And then, uh, yeah, hugo, um,we're not going to give you any
training for that, but my dooris always open, like Hugo, come
(17:32):
and see me whenever you wantOpen door policy.
So Hugo finally is like OK, I'mjust done, I can't, I don't
know what to do about this poorperformer, or everyone needs me
to do everything.
So they go talk to Hugo's bossand Hugo's boss Like I'm so
sorry, I'm really busy.
You can figure it out, hugo,you're a smart guy, you're a
smart guy, you.
(17:52):
If you need anything else, letme know.
And then Hugo is scar tissuelearning, ping, ponging off what
doesn't work, maybe he'sYouTubing or, in some cases,
worse, he takes supervisorytraining through his HR
department and no disrespect,but that's a different kind of
animal that we're talking about.
And then Hugo is stressed, he'slosing hair, all of the things.
(18:16):
He's not able to sleep, andthen he may end up just
struggling through.
And then he gets anotherpromotion.
And I'm here to tell you thatit is amazing to me how many
people achieve senior levels oforganizations that have to
struggle through the leadershippart of it because it's scar
tissue learning.
(18:36):
They haven't had theopportunity to be told hey,
these are the things thatactually matter to you, not all
of this other.
What's the signal and what'sthe noise?
And so I that's the part thatthat I uh find really, really
interesting, because we promotepeople that are good at things,
uh, but we forget that as theygo up through the, the support
(18:58):
chain, it's about people, it'snot about widgets or coding, and
and we don't acknowledge that,or if we acknowledge it, we
don't do much about it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
We don't train for it .
We don't train in thatsituation.
We'll keep using hugo's'll keepusing.
Hugo as the guinea pig here.
But in that situation and thathappens a lot, in fact we've had
other people on the show thatwe've talked about this kind of
stuff too.
And actually even in my worldI'm a part owner of a franchise
for Keller Williams and we gothrough this, we automatically.
And we go through this, youknow, we just think.
(19:27):
We automatically think, becausesomebody's he's the best coder,
that now, because we need morecoders, that he's going to run
the coding department and maybeHugo doesn't even want to do
that.
You know, we don't even thinkabout it.
You know, and I think and yeah,you give them more money, but
at the end of the day, they'renot trained how to lead people,
(19:48):
and that's a completelydifferent world than making the
widget or doing the coding.
You know, it's such a, it'sinteresting.
So you obviously see that a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I also see with founders a lotand owners.
You know you go into aparticular area like
entrepreneurs.
You go into a particular areaand that's why the tech and AI
space is so interesting, in thatthose folks go into it because
they do have that skill set andthen quickly they burn out
because they're there.
It's not about any of the thingthat they wanted to do, it's
(20:18):
about the, the people part, andI've heard it time and time
again that, uh, same thing onthe sales side, we promote good
sales people to be managers ofsales people, but what got you
here won't get you there.
So what made you really good atsales may or may not be what
will make you a really goodmanager, and so those, those
folks are set up for failure.
(20:39):
And then what ends up happeningis is it becomes a scorched
earth underneath them becausethey just simply don't know how
to navigate the complexities ofhuman interaction and
communication and motivation.
How do we build autonomousteams?
Like they're just overwhelmedand next, you know, hugo's team
has a pit in their stomachdriving into work and it's not
(21:01):
hugo's fault per se.
Um, but that's what ends uphappening and that's where now
people have toxic workplaces,they start calling in sick, they
start doing the bare minimumnow because they don't care
about anything and they'reworried about making decisions
because Hugo will come down onthem really hard Like, well,
something went wrong, why, whatdid you do wrong?
(21:22):
And there's just so many otherways that we can handle all
sorts of different situations inour workplaces.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Just so many other ways that we can handle all
sorts of different situations inour workplaces.
Oh, and that's why, going backto, I think, in in any company
business, we're supposed tocreate leaders, and and and part
of that is is training them howto lead, or or and, and not
everybody can do that either.
I think there's.
We have to realize, too, thatthere's people that are just not
built for that and they don'twant to be built for that.
You know it's, it's stressful,it gives them an ulcer, it gives
(21:54):
them, you know, high bloodpressure, it gives them all
these things because they're notnaturally built for, for doing
that.
Now, how do you?
My thing is this so, if, if youput Hugo in that situation, how
do you?
What do you do then?
What is the best way?
Do you hire a leader instead ofhim leaving the coding
department?
Do you hire somebody that'sgood at leading people, even
though that person might notknow coding that well?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, so that's a that's such a great question.
And the leader of leaders.
That is what I focus on for avery particular reason, one of
which, as a frontline leader.
So, let's, hugo is lookingafter, uh, you know, a team of
coders.
We consider that a frontlineleader, so hugo's interactions
and his ability to influence isvery direct.
He's got five people or or youknow whatever it might be.
(22:40):
They could be virtual, maybethey're in person.
Hugo has the ability to reachout personally, say hey, uh, hey
, jane, just wondering if youcan come and chat, let's figure
this out and let's brainstorm,and so on and so forth.
So we can influence verydirectly, both for good or worse
.
But at that level that's moreof tactical level.
(23:01):
So probably the challenges thatJane is having.
Hugo needs to know what's goingon there.
Like you know, hey, hugo, Ijust can't get this particular
issue figured out.
I need some help on it andwe'll talk about a framework
here shortly.
So the quote unquote lower downin the organization, generally
speaking, the more technical andoperational.
(23:22):
Uh, you need to be and haveknowledge of that Now as you go
up through the ranks quoteunquote up through the ranks and
I have some reservations aboutyou even using that phrase, but
your ability to directlyinteract and affect change with
people at the frontline isgreatly diminished.
It's almost like if you picturea bullseye or a bunch of
concentric circles.
(23:43):
You're in the in the middle ofthat concentric circle.
Then that first circle aroundyou is pretty bright.
You're able to reach into itand impact it, influence it.
But as that concentric circlebuilds and more circles happen,
your ability to reach out andinfluence and communicate and
all those things it just startsto diminish.
And so it's a different skillset altogether once again.
(24:06):
So the skill that Hugo uses,even if he managed to be an
amazing manager, is nowdifferent if he now becomes a
director where a bunch of hugosare now reporting to him.
Yeah and so?
Um, the the general thought.
To circle back to your actualquestion is the higher up you
are in the organization,generally speaking, the less
(24:27):
technical or operational youneed to be.
So it's highly situational andthose are kind of the general
rules there.
As you go up through.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It's less about the operational and tactical part,
more around risk management,liability, strategic thinking,
all of those other things andsometimes what happens in those
situations sometimes and I'mjust going to not is the people
below will go.
What does he know?
Or what does she know?
She's never been in thebasement with me or she's never.
He's never been in thissituation.
(25:00):
He doesn't know how to code, sohow?
Why is he telling us what to do?
You know you get that.
Then you get resentment.
You know it's very intense.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I agree with that, and so one of the remedies to
that, because it happens allover the place.
You're a thousand percentcorrect.
That's Canadian math, I suppose, so work with me here.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
We use a hundred percent in this country, just so
you know.
Yeah, well, let's not even gothere, right?
I know he's going to say, yeah,but you don't do Celsius.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So you know the the the whole problem is now when
people get to senior levels.
I think what, what, what thequote unquote, rank and file are
actually saying is thatperson's not in touch, that
person's not responsive.
If you look at the underlying,you know the motivation for
saying things like that.
That person doesn't even have aclue what's happening.
(25:56):
That person doesn't even have aclue what's happening.
Now, that's different thansomebody that comes in from a
different department orsomething that says hey folks,
I'm not from this environment,but I can promise you, my job is
to support you.
It's not to command and controlyou, it's to remove barriers.
So you tell me, and I'm goingto put very smart people in
charge and they will be able tohelp you, and when they can't
(26:19):
support you, it's going to getkicked up to me, and I think
that that's that's such animportant point is don't be
arrogant.
When you come in, you'rerecognized.
It is what it is like.
You're not fooling anybody byputting you know tape, you know
here and yeah the you know likeI know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You're so right and that is such a great way.
It's setting the expectation upfront when they, when you come
in and say, hey look guys, Idon't know this, you can code
circles around me.
In fact, I didn't know whatcoding really means, but I do
know how to to set up systems, Iknow how to manage a company
and I'm looking to you guys toto help me with this.
(26:57):
You know, and I think sometimes, if you're transparent and set
expectations up front, thatwould make a much better
situation than coming in andbeing you know, I'm the, I'm the
leader, I'm the guy, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I appreciate that, brad, because you know one thing
what's worse than coming in and, you know, taking over an area
maybe you're not familiar withis not admitting that you don't
know and kind of bsing your waythrough this fake until you make
it, because what you'llactually find in the real world
for the most part people will belike oh, you know what that's
refreshing.
Yeah, brad, came or let me helpyou that.
(27:31):
And that's exactly what happens.
It's exactly like hey, I get it.
The dude's struggling a bit, hedoesn't understand, so I'm
gonna, I'm gonna help him out.
Yeah, but it also goes back to,I think you know, no matter
what level you're at and this isgoing back to my, my framework
our ability to build teams is iscritical to our success, it's
critical to retaining top talent, all of those other things, and
(27:53):
so there's a five step processthat I go through no matter what
level I'm in, and it's it'ssomething that I just use by
default.
So even as recently as as lastsummer, I was in a big national
park, big wildfire.
So what I do is during myspring and fall, I'm coaching,
doing my executive leadership,programming and all that fun
(28:14):
stuff, my podcast and blah, blah, blah list goes on.
During the summers, I reservethat time for responding because
I continue, I want to continueto be on the front line and
engaged to help.
It also allows me to staycurrent and, um, you know, I
have a particular experiencelevel that is pretty helpful.
So, um, so, as recently as lastsummer well, heck, even as
(28:38):
recently as, as I said, a weekand a half ago but this
particular case in the nationalpark, a huge wildfire and uh
five, I was there for five weeksand I would have teams rotating
in every seven to ten days andand not just a full team.
So so, once again, I'm throwninto the fact okay, I have to
build teams rapidly and there'sa lot of pressure, all those
(29:01):
other things, and so the processI go through it's five steps,
and I would encourage folks, nomatter what level you're at, to
go through this team building.
So, if I may, if I can gothrough it, and maybe that will
help some of your listeners andviewers- so, if I may, if I can
go through it and maybe thatwill help some of your listeners
and viewers.
So the first thing, the firststep in building autonomous
(29:22):
teams and high performing teamsis the saying ships don't sink
because of the water around them, they sink because of the water
it gets in them.
So that's kind of my openingsalvo.
I'm like, hey, folks, like ifwe have our stuff together, you
know it doesn't matter what'shappening out there, and so how
do we navigate and move throughthe world of this chaos and
(29:42):
uncertainty?
I think about that all the time, and that ship could be your
team, it could be you personally, it could be your business unit
, it could be your organization,it could be whatever.
That is so having that in mind.
So then with that comes a veryclear setting of standards and
expectations.
That is so, so importantbecause you know, brad, have you
(30:03):
ever been held to accountableto a standard or expectation
that you didn't know you had?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, and what happens?
It's uncomfortable.
Yeah, it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You get pissed off.
Yeah, you get resentment.
You, there's all.
You go through the whole gamut.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And it's not.
You get pissed off.
Yeah, you get resentment.
You there's all.
You go through the whole gamut.
Yeah, absolutely, and and it'snot fair, no, to be frank.
So we want to really set theexpectations around that.
And so with that is is how am I, how do I expect the team to
interact with me?
So one example that that I'veheard over and over again is and
this is holds true for myself Inever want bad news from
(30:38):
someone else.
It's like, if it comes fromthis team, I want to come from
this team.
I don't want to hear it fromanother manager or my boss or
another company say hey, daryl,uh, I heard the things aren't
going well with that, oh, yeah,that is a little trigger for me.
So that's an example.
And we talk about how we'regoing to treat each other.
What kind of values are wegoing to try to follow through,
(31:00):
who do we communicate with?
How do we share information?
So it's that macro.
And then the second thing I doit starts to go in is clarity,
is kindness.
So I spend time, or I'll havesomebody spend time, going
through roles andresponsibilities for everybody
on the team, to which listenersand viewers are like what
(31:21):
they'll a.
They have a job description,daryl, so let's move on to the
next podcast, or they get paid.
They're adults.
I'm not going to babysit them.
Well, I'm here to tell youclarity is kindness.
Maybe it's a review, but whatwe often miss and this is now
the little extra that I'velearned over the years is sure,
we go through job descriptions,but do we often miss and this is
now the little extra that I'velearned over the years is sure,
we go through job descriptions,but do we spend time talking
(31:41):
about your decision makingauthority like hey?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
allowed to decide.
When do you need to come to me,what kind of financial
boundaries, how often do I wantto be communicated with those
kinds of things?
It's not just about the jobdescriptions, about roles,
responsibilities and andindividual expectations.
And then we have an interaction.
So, brad, you can ask mequestions, I can clarify and we
can come to an agreement, beinglike oh, you know what?
(32:06):
You're right, brad, that's agood point, whatever that looks
like, so we do that.
So that's step two.
Step three this is the one Ithink, out of all of the work
that I do and have done andprobably will continue to do,
it's called the DDB, one three,one method, and the one three
one method is is the, the secretsauce for teams.
(32:27):
So the one is a team member andthis is part of the
expectations to implement.
One three, one.
Come to me with one problem orone issue, but it's not Hugo
just coming to me dumpingproblems.
Hey, I got this problem.
You need to fix it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Pump the brakes.
Like what do you mean?
What's the problem?
(32:47):
What's the scope of it?
What's the impact?
Why is it a problem?
All of those other things.
So what tends to happen withfolks, is they upward delegate?
So're like, hey, here's aproblem.
You know, bag of flaming dogpoop, you're the leader take
care of it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, that's exactly it, yeah you need to support me.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, okay, got it.
But so the one is is come tocome with the problem.
Again some due diligence, dosome legwork, uh.
And then the the three are.
Come to me with three options.
Clue one could actually be donothing.
Honestly, what is the impact ofnot doing anything?
So, three options and then onerecommendation.
So come to me with one problemthat's scoped, maybe some root
(33:26):
cause.
Three options and yourrecommendation, and then we go
back and forth a bit and then atthe end of the day we decide
which recommendation to go with.
And here's the beautiful part isnow involvement equals
commitment.
So hugo now has had a part inthe solution.
Yeah, he's been seen, he's beenheard, he's been respected,
(33:49):
he's had access to the boss andwe've had the great conversation
.
We've decided that that's therecommendation.
And then he goes away andthere's some ownership around it
and there's respect.
And one of the big jobsatisfiers, if you want to
attract and retain top talent,is respect and autonomy.
Go away, do your job, I'm goingto leave you alone, but if you
(34:11):
need help I'm here.
And not to confuse that withignoring your high performers
that's a whole different issue.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But we're going to continue to support them.
And then the fifth part of itis leading with empathy.
Empathy Wow, that's not a wordwe used 10 years ago.
It's essentially now changingfrom command and control, which
we're all used to, to a chain ofsupport.
So now I'm not telling you whatyou need to do the
micromanagement part.
I'm telling you what you needto do the micromanagement part.
(34:40):
I'm telling you that I am hereto support you.
I'm removing barriers and whatyou'll see is, if you're
starting to go through thatprocess and I go through it all
the time again, I was just aweek and a half ago it's it's a
very solid framework that I use.
You see people start to exercisetheir, their problem solving
muscles.
You see them take ownership.
(35:01):
You see them loving theopportunity to actually go do
some stuff and selfishly, frommy perspective, it frees me up a
ton.
So if I have five people on myteam, four are doing one, three,
one and they're kicking butt.
You know, inevitably there'sthat fifth person that maybe
isn't.
So that's the person I spendtime with, that's the person I
(35:23):
coach and mentor, and the otherfour, I'm just checking in.
What are you working on?
How can I help and it frees youup to go focus on the big
picture, the strategies and allthat, and and you know you can
satisfy your micromanagement.
You know itch to your heart'scontent, but at least you're
doing it with one person and notfive.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, you know, so there's just so.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So many benefits.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
So I love that, I love that one, three, one.
That is so cool.
It's great because, and also,what you're doing at that moment
is you're teaching that personleadership, because leaders,
leaders have to do exactly whatyou just at told that person
leadership, because leaders,leaders have to do exactly what
you just at told that person tocome to you with.
You said I, you know what's theproblem, give me three possible
.
Was it three?
(36:05):
Um, three options, threeoptions.
And then, though, and then thelast one was what you think,
which way should we go?
Right, and you just you'reteaching them how to lead, right
there.
Yeah, that's exactly it so.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So you're developing them, yes, you're, you're
teaching them how to lead rightthere.
Yep, that's exactly it.
So so you're developing them,you're, you're, you're building
that muscle.
You're building that autonomy,that respect, while, at the same
time, selfishly.
Now, brad, I'm not exhausted atthe end of the day, I can go
home, I can be with my partner,I can be present, I can even
coach, you can even cheer if youwant.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Exactly.
You have so much energy, youcan now cheer.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
You could be the one that they're throwing up there
and twirling.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I would suggest not doing that, but that's all right
.
There is liability involved.
There's definitely liabilityinvolved there.
Yeah, I have one more questionbefore we wrap this up, because
we're almost at 40 minutes here.
By the way, great show, this isawesome.
I mean, Hugo, you can agree,this is great information, Great
show.
I'm really excited about thisand I'm excited for our audience
to to to get some feedback onthis too.
(37:09):
So one of the questions I havehave you ever come into a
situation where you're like, ohshit, the problem is the guy
that hired me Love it.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I love this question.
So here, here's, here's whathappens.
So there's there's a sayingthat I also use a lot is it's
okay to complain up, not tocomplain down, first of all?
So one of the things I do seeis leaders that are stuck in
that middle.
They start throwing their bossunder the bus because it makes
them look OK Like, in otherwords, it's not my decision,
(37:43):
it's yeah, it's like yeah likeI'm just being a good soldier,
which is true to a certainextent.
You know there are certainsituations.
Sure, it's called a chain for areason you know.
Like that, you have a boss,even as a a um, you know startup
.
A lot of times you haveshareholders and all those other
things that this fallacy thatyou don't work for anybody is is
(38:04):
is incorrect.
So this is we call this leadingupwards, and this in itself is
worth a whole podcast itself,but the term is leading upward.
So one of the things that youneed to do, or I would submit to
you, is you need to have theconversation, first and foremost
because give your boss thebenefit of the doubt.
They may not even know it's aproblem, right?
(38:25):
Because you're so good at yourjob, brad, that it doesn't
filter up to them.
They're like, hey, this isgreat.
So having a conversation thatinvolves the behavior, the
emotion and the effect.
So what you do is you come in,hey, if you're my boss, hey,
brad, I'm really concerned aboutthe policy around working from
home.
The effect is it's making ourteam feel a lot more alienated
(38:50):
because there's other teams areallowed to work from home.
So I want to hear your thoughtson that and then you can start
to have the dialogue.
So you're not going into intoguns blazing that, hey, we need
to change this.
You're now opening it up.
That individual is not beingattacked, they're not being
defensive, you're merely justtaking ownership.
Hey, I'm concerned.
Here's what's happening, here'sthe effect.
(39:11):
So, starting there, and thenwhat are your thoughts on that?
And here's the thing You'llactually find in some cases, it
makes sense what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And if nothing else, it will, you'll recognize okay,
I got it.
But then here's the other thing, and you know, just to wrap it
up, one thing I do all the timewhen I deploy or if I'm working
with a client, from that thatmatter, what does right look
like?
So, Brad, if I'm working foryou, that's the first
conversation I have for you andI to work together, for me, to
support you.
What does right look like foryou?
(39:41):
What do you need from me?
Well, daryl, I need a report onFriday, every Friday.
Okay, cool, like I don't care.
Yeah, I get paid to do it, yeah, so, um, hey, you know what?
Or I need us to really focus onthis.
Sounds good, boss.
No problem, I'll go ahead anddo that.
So that's the other part too.
A lot of times we don't havethat interaction or that
(40:02):
discussion with our bosses tostart.
I do that all the time becauseI'm ultimately working for them
and I want their support and Iwant them to look good.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, yeah, that's very good.
Good stuff, man, Good stuff.
So let's, just before we end,before we end the show here,
let's talk about.
You have a podcast and it'scalled lead from the inside out.
Is that correct?
Is it?
Is it?
Is it going to be like thiskind of material?
Is it going to be all?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
like kind of this stuff that you, you were
bringing out.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I focus on leadership andpersonal development and the
convergence thereof, forinstance.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And you also have a YouTube page.
It's youtubecom.
Backslash at Daryl D Black.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, the shortened is ddbtubecom, so all of my a
lot of material there as well.
I'll have a.
I have a guide that's been donea PDF for for your audience,
and so either connect with me onLinkedIn at Daryl D Black, just
connect with me and send me amessage just saying Team Brad,
(41:02):
and I'll send you the guy.
All right, just so I know.
And also on Instagram, becauseall the cool cats are on
Instagram, apparently, notSnapchat.
I'm not on Snapchat, neither amI.
But there you can reach me atDDB leadership.
So give me a follow.
And same thing Send me a DM andsay Team Brad, and I'll send
you the guide.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Awesome man, awesome.
What a great show, greatpodcast.
You definitely have a lot ofinformation and very impressive.
I love the way that youcommunicate and I think you
could really really be animprovement for some people, for
corporations, for companies.
They should be hiring you.
You're doing a great job.
Thank you, yeah, awesome.
There you go.
(41:42):
All right, darrell Black youguys have got to check this guy
out.
Check out his podcast.
It's Elite from the Inside Out,just the leadership stuff and
talking about the differentcrises that happens inside
businesses and things like that.
It's just amazing.
He had a lot of good stuff totalk about.
(42:02):
We will probably have him backagain as long as he comes back.
All right, that's about it.
Thanks for watching us everyThursday at 7 pm.
We'll see you real soon.
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