October 23, 2025 • 46 mins
A brutal fight and a quiet moment at a funeral changed everything for our guest, Mitchell Osmond. From spiraling debt, weight gain, and a marriage on the brink to a rebuilt life and the launch of The Dad Nation Podcast, Mitchell shares the exact tools he used to turn things around—without sacrificing career ambition or family presence.
We dig into why so many high-performing men feel respected at work yet incompetent at home, and how masculine and feminine wiring can collide if we treat our partners like teammates and our kids like colleagues. Mitchell explains normative male alexithymia—the cultural gap that leaves many men with few words for feelings—and shows how that gap fuels shutdowns, blowups, and emotional distance. Then we get tactical: the RISE Conversation Ladder. You’ll learn how to move from routine logistics to essence-level questions that build intimacy fast, plus easy prompts you can use on your next date so it doesn’t turn into a board meeting with wine.
We also talk about marriage after kids, why your spouse still needs to feel like a bride, and how modeling a strong partnership teaches your children what love looks like. Mitchell brings data, empathy, and a blueprint: simple weekly practices, better questions, and a clearer vision of success at home and at work. If you’ve ever thought, I can fix a business but not a feeling, this conversation gives you language, structure, and hope.
Grab Mitchell’s free Connection Code (50 conversation starters) at dadnationco.com/code, subscribe for more conversations like this, and leave a review to tell us the one question you’re going to try tonight.
"If you are a dad or a dad in training, please listen to this episode!! It's so packed full of great insights for making a better connection with your wife and kids." - Brad Weisman
Hi This is Brad Weisman - Click Here to Send Me a Text Message
---
Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Alright, rock and roll.
From real estate.
The market as a whole, it's beensometimes will affect the right
in the real life.
We all learn it.
If you think about it, WayneDyer might not attract everybody
and everything in between.
(00:22):
The Brad Wiseman show.
And now your host, Brad Wiseman.
All right.
I am so excited about this show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
What is it?
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
What is it?
I'm not going to tell you.
You got to guess.
You got to guess what it is.
Now, we have a really good showhere for you, uh, as we normally
do, I think.
Uh we always we always put onsome good shows here, but we
have a really good guest.
It's a guest that I've beenlooking at for uh quite some
time.
And, you know, it caught my eye.
There was uh the his uh manager,the people that help him with
his social media and get him outthere on podcasts, uh, had
(00:54):
reached out to me and you know,looked at his at his uh what
they call it like a one-pager,and it just hit me right away.
I mean, he has this this umorganization called the Dad
Nation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
Dad Nation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Yeah, Dad Nation, which is, you know, we're dads,
you're a dad, I'm a dad.
And it hit me.
And then I started reading someof the quotes and stuff on
Instagram, and I was like, Igotta get this.
This guy's gotta be on the show.
So his name is Mitchell Osman.
Mitchell, how are you doing,man?
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
My friend, I'm doing well, and I'm happy to be on the
show and chatting with you guystoday.
Yeah, awesome.
You're all the way from Canada.
Mm-hmm.
They're friendly neighbor fromthe north, man.
Are you cold yet up there?
Nah, it's it's it's starting toget a little bit chilly, but
we're we're good.
We're still hanging on.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Still hanging on.
We're still hanging on.
That's good.
We all know snow's coming atsome point, so not much we can
do about that.
But uh, no, you really caught myeye.
You you have this uh this wholething called the Dad Nation,
which I think is very catchy,and and I think it it really
drew me in, you know, as soon asI saw the name.
And I'm just gonna say a little,I'm just gonna say a little bit.
It's like a little bio, a littlesnippet here, but it says, uh,
(01:57):
you're the founder of DadNation, host of a globally
ranked podcast reaching over 33listeners each month, which is
pretty amazing.
Uh, your story is not justauthentic, it's lived.
In just 18 months, you lost 60pounds, uh, paid off over
100,000 in debt to achievefinancial freedom, turned a near
divorce into a thrivingmarriage, and launched a
(02:17):
six-figure executive coachingpractice alongside that top 10%
show that you have.
That's a lot.
And and I, you know, I read thatand then I started reading
everything else, and I was like,yeah, gotta have this guy on.
So tell me, tell me how did youget to creating this dad nation?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yeah, no, thank you.
Well, first of all, Brad, thankyou for having me on the show.
Um, I'm just really excited tobe here.
And uh, real quick though,before we jump in, I noticed you
you said we I have 33 monthlylisteners.
I just wanted uh to correct.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yes, you did.
I know I I thought that too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
That's not many.
That's not many.
Well, you know, I was trying tomake ourselves look good, Hugo.
It is 33,000 listeners eachmonth.
Sorry about that, buddy.
I'm so glad you actuallycorrected me on that.
Oh man, that's funny.
So 33,000 listeners isdefinitely a lot more than 33.
And and that's amazing,actually.
(03:13):
It's really incredible.
So, yeah, tell us about the DADnation.
Tell us about how this became33,000 listeners a month.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah, well, if you'd like, I mean, I can start from
the origin story about kind ofmy turning point.
Yes.
It kind of led me to get to thispoint.
Absolutely.
Um, all right, sounds good.
Well, I'll try and keep thisshort, but uh, because I think
it's a great place to start.
And a lot of people ask me this.
Well, how did you get from thereto here?
Right.
And so for me, there were twocritical points, okay?
The one, uh, two turning points.
(03:41):
One was a fight, and the otherone was a funeral.
Okay, so we'll start with thefight.
Now, if you can picture me andmy wife were sitting on the
couch in the living room oneday, and man, it all hit the
fan.
Like we got into a fight aboutmoney, and that morphed into,
you know, about me working toomuch, not being present, and
then it just started to spiral.
And at this point, we had beenmarried for about three years,
(04:02):
and it was a tough three years,you know, of struggling.
Uh but this fight, this day wasour children or no children at
this point.
No children at this point.
No, this was our rock bottom.
Now we fought all the time, butthis one was different.
And then I knew that today, thisone, I was like, man, I don't I
don't think that I can fix thisone.
Deep down, I I kind of knew thatif something didn't change, I
(04:24):
was gonna lose my wife.
Um, and and and to give you somemore context, I'd recently been
let go of a senior leadershipposition.
And, you know, especially asmen, you know, our career is
everything to us.
Uh, you know, it was my calling,my identity.
I spiraled into depression, likeyou had her said, like you had
said, 60 pounds overweight, 100grand in debt, medicating, you
(04:45):
know, with drugs and alcohol,just trying to cope.
And now I was gettingdangerously close to divorce.
Man, I was, I was all, I waschecked out, stressed out,
burned out, like all the outs,you know, right?
And just um, and I was perplexedwith this tension, Brad, of
like, why was it that I couldsee success professionally, but
I couldn't figure my life outpersonally?
You know, I could lead teams, Icould cast vision, I could run
(05:08):
board meetings, but when I camehome, I didn't even know how to
talk to my own wife.
And it was such a tension that Iwas living in.
So to bring it back even more,you know, I had come up, I'd
come from a dysfunctionalupbringing.
I had a non-existentrelationship with my father, you
know, alcoholism, drugs, crimewere just a part of my life
growing up.
It was littered throughout myfamily.
And I was kind of caught in themiddle of it all.
(05:29):
So I knew what I didn't want,right?
I knew where it came from, butit for the life of me, man, I
kept getting sucked into thoseold behaviors and and and caught
like sucked into just the past,reliving the mistakes of my
father and his father.
And when I would yell at mywife, I could hear his voice and
mine, I could hear his words.
Oh wow.
(05:49):
And there was this duality, man,that that I felt like I was like
living a lie because I wouldsee, you know, like I said, I'd
see this as successprofessionally, but I would come
home and there was just thistension, right?
And so, you know, for me, thatthat was a was a critical point.
You know, my wife said to me,she said, Um, you go to work and
(06:10):
you give everyone the Mitchellbuffet, and you come home and
you give me the scraps.
And I'm done.
Yeah.
And so seven days later, thatsame the end of that same week
was the second point.
And this was the funeral part ofthe story.
Now, I was invited to sing atthe funeral of this very uh he
was a philanthropist, verysuccessful man.
(06:31):
And I was remember, I was I wasstrapping on my guitar, getting
ready to sing the last song, andI heard the minister say to the
room, he said, Are you living alife worthy of imitation?
Because he was talking aboutthis, all the things this guy
had done.
And he said, If you were to dietomorrow, would you be proud of
the legacy that you left?
And Brad, as I was, as I waswrapping up and trying to sing
(06:54):
the last song, I could barelychoke out the lyrics because all
I could think in that momentwas, man, if this were my
funeral, no one would be saying,He inspired me to have an
amazing marriage, or he inspiredme to get into shape, or he
inspired me to, you know, uh getmy money in order, get my house
in order.
They probably would have said atthat point, he struggled, and
(07:14):
then it was over, you know, andthat's the thing, Brad.
In that moment, like people weretelling stories about this man
because that's what we do whensomeone passes away.
And it was uh his life wasfilled with incredible chapters.
And so I was determined that daythat I would go home and begin
to rewrite chapters for me, thatI was gonna take the pen back
(07:35):
and rewrite my future.
Because up until that point, thefirst chapter of my life was my
childhood, and that was a sadone.
The second chapter of my lifewas my marriage, and that was a
big struggle.
And so I decided, man, I have todie to the man that I used to be
to become the man that I know Ineed to be for my wife and my,
you know, for my family.
And so I knew, you know, and weknow this.
(07:55):
If you want different results,you have to make different
decisions.
That's the old Einstein's olddefinition of insanity, right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Yeah, doing the same thing over and over again.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
Exactly.
And so what I did, Brad, was Ijust, and again, I actually
ended up building frameworksaround this, but I did this
intuitively, but now Iunderstand the significance of
it.
I just started reaching out tomen in my life that were ahead
of me, right?
Men who my my ceiling was theirfloor.
You understand what I mean?
And and so, and these mensurrounded me, and they were
(08:25):
these guys were thriving intheir marriage, they're thriving
in business, they're thriving intheir fitness, you you know, you
name it.
And they taught me everything Ineeded to know.
They and they showed me what waspossible, right, for my life.
And they held me to the standardthat I said I wanted for myself.
And like you said in the intro,you know, within 18 months, paid
off the 100 grand, restored mymarriage, lost 60 pounds, and
(08:47):
was clean of substances anddistractions.
And so, what's interesting aboutthat is because I was always in
public positions of leadership,people started asking questions
like, What are you doing, man?
How did you do all this?
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
And so I started helping people in my life, just
friends of mine who are having ahard time or putting budgets
together to help them get out ofdebt or making meal plans for
them.
And then one of my mentorschallenged me.
He said, Man, if you really wantto have impact, you need to
start a podcast and starttelling, sharing with people
what you've learned and whatyou've and just tell your story.
And so I launched a Dad Nationpodcast about a year and a half
(09:21):
ago.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
And then within about six months, it was a
globally top-rated 10% podcast.
And then I had people uh sendingme messages from across across
North America saying, Hey, wouldyou help?
Could you, could you, you know,help me in my situation?
And that's when I decided tolaunch the coaching practice.
And that's what I do today, man.
I I help high-performing menreclaim their home, their
(09:42):
health, and happiness withoutsacrificing their career
success.
And I would argue that today youcan have you can have the the
business, you can have theincome, and you can still see
your son's soccer games or go toyour daughter's dance recital.
You can do it.
It's not a lot of people aredoing it well, um, but doesn't
mean you can't.
And so that's what that's mystory, man.
Why do we I struggle witheverything you're talking about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Every single thing.
My wife listens to this, she'sgonna be like, I'm telling you,
man, this is gonna be aconversation.
She this this I I struggle withevery single thing that you're
talking about.
Every single thing.
So it's it's when you'retalking, it's like you're
talking to me.
Um, I think I and I don't, and Iknow this because I have other
friends that that that are verymuch like a workaholic, whatever
(10:26):
you want to call it.
I'm very into success or ormoving forward and and making
money and things like that.
And some of the reasons too linkback from my parents were great,
but the only fight they ever hadwas about money.
So when you grow up with withthat, and there's nothing wrong
with that, love my parents,they're awesome people, but that
(10:48):
was that was what the fightswere about.
So in my mind, I was always, Iam gonna do everything I can in
a relationship to never fightabout money, you know.
So, you know, I think is that'sis that the common one is the
money thing?
Why do we put ourselves in thissituation?
Why are we not present at homethe way we should be?
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Yeah, such a good question.
And a great place to startbecause this is the great irony
about this man, about being aman, especially being a high
performer, someone who's reallycareer-driven, is because we
work so hard to provide thislife for the family.
But in many cases,statistically, it's shown that
we actually will end up losingthe family we're working so hard
(11:31):
to provide for, because weactually lose the family in
because we work so much.
You understand what I mean?
Yeah, totally.
And then what happens is we getwe get disconnected from our
kids, we get disconnected fromour wife, and then they say,
Well, where are you?
What you work too much, and thenyou say, Well, I'm no, I'm just
trying to provide.
This is what I do.
And then you feel disrespectedbecause you're just trying to
provide, and then she feelsunloved.
(11:53):
So then she starts, you knowwhat I mean?
So you get caught in this cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
And this is the challenge of being a man and who
wants to wants to uh providefinancially and wants to work
hard.
And I'll tell you the reason whyis we lose focus.
Okay.
So let me talk about themasculine versus the feminine
for a moment.
Um, now when I talk about this,I'm talking about the essence,
(12:17):
right?
Not necessarily the gender, butspecifically, we know that you
know, generally men are moremasculine than women.
Um, we have to be careful thesedays.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Yeah, be careful.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
Hence my tiptoeing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
I can tell you're tiptoeing, and you're doing a
great job, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Do you have eggshells under you?
Right?
It feels like it.
Yeah, go ahead.
Um, so you want to think aboutthe essence of masculinity.
It's driven by performance, it'sdriven by excellence, it's
driven by purpose, by mission,right?
The feminine is driven byemotions, it's driven by
nurturing, uh, relationships,you know, intuition, all these
(12:58):
different things.
Uh a buddy of mine said uh themasculine is doing, the feminine
is being.
And I think that's a beautiful,uh, real simple explanation.
But what happens is we get sortof caught in this trap, is we
find a lot of our validationthrough what we do as men,
right?
And it fulfills something in usbecause we're masculine.
(13:20):
And so, for example, let's thinkabout it this way: if you go to
a Super Bowl party, this is awhat this is on display, so it
makes it so easy to see.
Where do you typically see themen that are at the party?
Uh, in front of the TV.
Exactly.
Now, they're in front of the TV,they're watching the athletes
doing what they do best becauseathletes are some of the most
(13:40):
purpose-driven.
They're on a mission, they'reexcellent in what they do, they
have very clear purpose.
It we're like moths to a flame.
We're drawn to it because we canalso quantify it.
Because sports, you can you cantell good, bad, medium, you
know, whatever.
Where are the women usually atthe Super Bowl party?
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Chatting over at the bar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Exactly.
Chatting around the table,sipping a glass of wine.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Right?
Asking, hey, how are the kids?
How's how's Brad doing?
You know, they're nurturing therelationships, they're
connecting emotionally.
They're I mean, and that's justa part of the feminine
expression.
But here's where this we have tobe careful is because men, and
now, so now that we understandour wiring, we go to work all
day and we fix things and weprovide solutions and we
(14:26):
strategize all day for eight,10, 12 hours a day, however long
you work.
And it's totally in alignmentwith our essence as men, and
it's our skill set because weget really good at it.
We come home to a woman wholoves us, but could give a rip
about strategy or aboutexcellence or purpose or any of
that stuff.
(14:47):
And what happens is we startshoving like we start treating
treating our wives likeemployees or staff members.
We start treating our kids likeour colleagues, right?
And because that's what we doall day.
And so when our wife talks abouthaving a bad day or something's
going on, she wants to beconnected with emotionally, but
all we start to do is try to fixthings because that's what we've
(15:09):
been doing all day.
So it's like, well, yeah, ofcourse I'm gonna fix this.
Then she gets upset becauseshe's like, No, no, you're not
hearing me.
I just want you to hear me.
And you're like, I am hearingyou, I'm just trying to fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
And so I don't want are you watching our house with
a camera and a microphone?
Or I'm just wondering, like, isthis just getting creepy now?
It's really getting creepy.
No, but you're so, so right.
You know, they the you she'llstart to share, and then you you
then it's like, well, Sally didthis and whatever.
I'm like, well, Sally needs tounderstand her plan.
I start going into the fix mode,and well, why is Sally doing
(15:43):
that?
And you know, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Well, what happens is you start shoving a strategy
down her throat.
Yep, and that's but not what sheneeds, or you're at least you're
trying to formulate one that shecan take to Sally.
Yeah.
And she's like, I don't, I justneed to sit and feel this for a
moment.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
And as a man, you're like, what are you talking
about?
Why would you ever want to feelthat?
Like just get just you know, getfix it, right?
And so a buddy of mine said thisanalogy, which I think is
brilliant.
Sometimes that male expression,um, when they come home and they
have to sort of listen to maybeit's their daughter or their
wife, you know, struggling withsomething, but yet not being
able to fix it.
They feel like you're it's likeyou're standing in front of a
(16:18):
house that's up in flames, andyou got this fire hose that's
fully charged, and you gottajust keep it turned off and just
watch the house burn.
Yes.
That's sometimes what it feelslike, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
That's funny.
That's a good analogy.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Yeah.
So what happens is there's thisbig disconnect, right?
And so the husband feels like,man, I am so uh a man's two
greatest needs are to feelrespected and to feel competent.
Okay.
So what happens is when the wifefeels unheard or unloved or
unseen, she starts to make, shestarts to say things like, Well,
(16:52):
you're not hearing me.
What are you, a robot?
Like, what's wrong with you?
Why don't you talk about yourfeelings, whatever?
And you start to feelincompetent as a man in the
house or as a husband.
And so what happens?
Because we're driven byaccomplishments, by tangible,
tactical things.
We can't quantify what successlooks like at home.
It's much harder, right?
Like I tell my tell my clientsall the time, you're never gonna
(17:14):
come home and your six-year-oldson is not gonna be like, hey,
daddy, here are five reasons whyyou're a an effective father.
You know, like he's just notgonna do that, right?
But when you go to work, oh, youget performance bonuses, you
close this many contracts,revenue is up last quarter.
Very easy to quantify, very easyto wrap strategies around it.
So at work, you're like, I knowI'm being successful, I know I'm
(17:35):
competent, and I'm usuallyrespected by my colleagues or my
boss or whatever.
But when you come home, allthose lines get blurry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Oh, yeah, because you're not they're not gonna pat
you on the back for come forbeing at work.
Exactly.
And I think sometimes that'swhat we look for.
Like you know, you realize Ijust closed this much of a deal,
you know.
It doesn't really matter becausethey're that's not what they're
worried about.
And you come home all excited,yeah, and they don't and they
don't care, and then theypoo-poo the whole thing.
(18:03):
The whole poo-poo, the wholething, the poo-poo the whole
thing.
It's all done.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Because that is not a value forher.
It's actually fundamentally nothow she's wired, and and that's
by design, because her role andher responsibility is to be the
nurturing, uh, caring, loving,supportive, emotional sort of
(18:27):
part of that relationship.
That's the um the being sense,right?
Yes, and so that that createsthat emotional safety in the
home.
And so she's actually wired likethat for a reason.
But if we're not aware of that,um, what happens is those two
strengths, the masculine and thefeminine, which are incredible
strengths and both are needed,there's a reason why we have
(18:47):
opposite polarities.
Um, they we end up pinning themagainst each other and they end
up pulling us apart.
And so David Data says in hisbook, The Way of the Superior
Man, he calls it the greatmasculine error.
And he says, This greatmasculine error is that you will
think, you think that somedayyou're gonna understand it, that
one day you will understand yourwife or you'll understand the
(19:09):
feminine, you know.
But the reality is the mech thethe masculine will full forever
be uh perplexed by the feminine,and the feminine will be
perplexed by the masculine untilwe understand how we're wired
and how our strengths can serveone another.
And so this is where thistension comes from, Brad.
Why you you feel like such asuccess at at work and you come
(19:32):
home and you don't even knowwhere your place is.
And when you do try and talk,you're like, you don't care what
I'm talking about.
And and the solutions I'moffering, you don't seem to want
to hear.
So what am I doing here?
Because this is what I'm goodat, right?
Yeah, and you start to feel likean like a nuisance in your own
home.
Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Now, you you know, you you talk about all this
stuff, okay?
What what do you find to be themost challenging?
Uh everything we just talkedabout.
I love the honesty, dude.
I love it.
Because you know, we could allsit here.
I mean, I you know, I I can sithere and tell people to like
this is this is gonna be taken adifferent way.
I'm a realtor.
(20:08):
I can tell somebody all day,hey, if you're thinking about
buying something, make sure youget pre-approved.
I mean, why would you not dothat?
Well, my wife and I went to buya place at the beach two years
ago, found the place, and guesswhat we didn't have done?
Pre-approval.
So I'm rushing around getting apre-approval.
But what's funny is we sometimeswe don't do what we tell others
(20:29):
to do.
But you know, you're obviously,you know, you're really uh on a
high level with this stuff.
So you is it's still always doyou have to make it is it front
of mind to think about, or hasit become more natural to know
how the difference between themasculine and feminine and know
how why she's saying something acertain way or why why this
there's an argument about this?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's it I tell you what,um there's no uh it there's just
skills that need to bedeveloped.
You need to have somebody thatputs this in front of you, but
you need to practice it, yeah,right.
So a lot of my clients are like,they'll come to me like, man, I
totally blew it again.
You know, I'm like, well, hey,how many times did you lose your
cool this week?
You know, and they're like,Well, four.
I'm like, well, four is betterthan seven because last week you
(21:13):
were doing it every single day.
That's a significantimprovement.
But the reality is, and thechallenging part about this is
the only time you get topractice is when you're in the
middle of the moment, right?
And that's why it gets sodifficult.
And so we gotta understandyou're what you know.
I can teach you skills and toolsand frameworks on how to catch
(21:34):
yourself in the moment.
And I'd love to teach some ofthose in our conversation today
to help your listeners.
But at the end of the day, thereis there is this is a skill that
we have to develop becausegenerally speaking, men really
struggle with their emotions,they really struggle with with
even understanding what's goingon.
Uh, and because and but we'realso married to emotional
wizards, uh, women who just likethey were raised with it, right?
(21:57):
And and it's an interesting termthat I'll share with you.
It's a bit of a mouthful, butit's called normative male
alexathymia.
Okay, now this is apsychological term that has been
coined to explain thisphenomenon, okay?
So the term alexathymia actuallyits roots come from the Greek,
okay?
So the the word a means lack orwithout, and then the word
(22:20):
thymos means without emotion orfeelings.
And so when you put uh and thenthymos or sorry, thymos means
without emotions, and so whenyou put the words alexithymia
together, it means a lack ofwords for emotion.
So what this means is when menare pressed to talk about their
feelings, or when they're asked,well, what do you feel?
(22:41):
or what and this is why westruggle so much in traditional
therapy, it's because we we'vebeen raised in a culture where
we're actually uncomfortabletalking about our emotions.
And even if we did, we wouldn'tnecessarily have the words to
talk about it.
And so we marry very emotionalbeings who are very in tune with
their emotions and they want tobe connected with, but we
(23:02):
literally don't have the wordsfor it often.
So what I do a lot of the timesis I just teach men how to
understand their emotions, talkabout them, you know, and
communicate them clearly becausewhat happens is the reality is
men have just as many emotionsas men women, but we don't
recognize them and talk aboutthem or understand them.
And so they bottle up, bottleup, and all of a sudden, boom,
(23:24):
they snap because we're we'realso masculine, so we can be
aggressive, and that it becomesthe only outlet.
We either snap or we shut down.
Both are not great options in ahealthy marriage, right?
Definitely not.
And so that's that's what Iwould say is is it's a matter of
learning these skills and thenpracticing them over time.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Makes a lot of sense.
And the other thing, too, is Ithink, you know, I I was married
once before.
So one one of the things that Ilearned, I think anybody that
goes through a divorce oranybody who goes through any
kind of a relationship completebreakup um needs to understand
it.
I always said to people, I was100% responsible just as she was
a hundred percent responsiblefor us separating or getting
(24:06):
divorced.
And one of the things is thatthere's there's usually cues,
there's usually hints, there'susually little things that they
drop out there that as me as aguy didn't pick up on the cues.
You know what I mean?
Just didn't pick up on them.
And I'll never forget when shedid when she said she was
leaving.
I'll never forget going, Oh,that's what that meant.
(24:30):
Oh, I remember that she saidthis.
You start to realize that therewas all kinds of clues and and
out there, but we're not builtto pick that stuff up.
You know, we're just not.
And and it did make me a betterperson to be married to now.
You know, I think it's a lot ofit is just learning about
yourself and learning that, youknow, you need to listen to
(24:52):
these things.
You need to listen to whenpeople say that they're that you
work too much, that maybe thatmeans you work too much.
Um, you know, it's not just acomplaint, it's it's it's a it's
something they're feeling.
Um, so yeah, it's it's uh youknow, it's interesting how those
things work with with uh withrelationships.
But luckily you were able tosave your relationship, which is
great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Yeah, and I'll tell you what, Brad, that's uh the
you know, you talk about how wemiss things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Uh that's by design, because we're we're created to
be able to compartmentalize.
We're created to be able to letgo and oversee and contain
thoughts and move forwardbecause we need to in order to
be productive.
We need to in order to pressforward.
And and we've been literallybuilt, not just physically
stronger, but emotionallystronger in the sense of we can
compartmentalize, let things go,um, so that we can bear the
(25:43):
weight for our families.
We're designed to take theweight, not just physically, but
you know, emotionally and allthose different things.
So, guys letting things go,that's actually part of our
design.
Yeah, but and so it's not a badthing, but we have to learn how
to bridge that gap, right?
And what you're saying is so keybecause there's a statistic, and
this is part of the reason why Ilaunched this whole movement,
(26:03):
was because in the United Statestoday, we know that seven out of
every ten divorces are initiatedby the women in the
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Wow, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Now, and it gets crazier.
In a situation where the wife isa high earner or she's got an
education, that number goes tonine out of ten divorces are
initiated by women.
90% of divorces are initiated bywomen.
And of those 90%, 80% of thetime the divorce is initiated.
The reason cited is because theyfeel disconnected emotionally
(26:35):
from their husband.
Unbelievable.
Isn't that crazy?
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
Yeah, right there it is.
So that's why I talk so muchabout the emotions.
Yeah, I mean, and it's the proofis in the in the statistics.
I mean, there right there it is.
It's incredible.
And what's funny you said aboutthe high when the woman, when
the woman is is the high earner,whatever, it didn't change, it
made it worse.
Is that is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Yeah, because now she doesn't she the reason why
some women stay in into in arelationship where they're maybe
unhappy is because a lot oftimes is because the man is the
primary uh you know provider.
Yeah, and so um I get a lot ofwomen follow me on Instagram,
and sometimes they'll message meand be like, my if my husband
didn't make so much money, I'dleave him.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:15):
Dude, I got a message like that earlier this
morning.
It's real.
Yeah, and so that's why womenwho get the education and earn
higher amounts, they don't needthe man anymore for that piece,
right?
Yeah, and so this should be ascreaming amber flash to any man
listening, because this happensevery single day.
(27:35):
And and I would say, Brad, like70% of my clients who come to me
say, I just woke up one day andmy wife just threatened divorce.
And I had no idea what was goingon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
I thought we were fine.
That was my story.
That what the last with the withthe marriage before.
It was out of nowhere.
Just um, I'll never forget.
She said, Um, uh, I need to, Ineed to get away.
I said, What do you what do youwant to get?
What do you mean?
We just got back from vacation.
We why do you need to get awayagain?
We had no children.
And she goes, No, I need to getaway from you.
I'm like, Oh, that's a that's areal tough one to take.
(28:07):
Yeah, a little ego shot there.
Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's aninteresting, but like I said,
you learn I learned so much fromthat.
Learned so much, you know.
And unfortunately, I had to gothrough that.
But you know, I also have anamazing wife now and two kids,
so everything's kind of meant tohappen in life.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Well, yeah, and you're better for it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Um, if you if you're interested, I'd be happy to
share uh a framework that I usewith my one-to-one clients that
can help.
Absolutely.
Awesome.
Okay, now if you're a manlistening, this is gonna be
hugely helpful for you.
If you're a woman listening,this is still gonna be helpful
because you can help yourhusband in this journey, okay?
So it's called the RiseConversation Ladder.
And this is I want you to thinkabout this as sort of like a
(28:48):
ladder of like or rungs of aconversation, if you will,
because a lot of theserelationships, uh, a lot of
marriages are starved for depth,right?
Not because the husbands don'tlove their wives, but because
they've forgotten how to talk tothem, you know, in a in an
emotional way.
And so the the reality is, youknow, we can build a bank
(29:08):
account, we can create a lifeschedule, um, but still feel
like strangers passing in thehallway.
So this this framework is simpleenough to remember on your worst
day and powerful enough tochange the way you connect
forever.
So uh the word rise, obviouslyit's four letters, R-I-S-E,
stands for the four differentsteps.
Okay, so the first step is R,which stands for routine.
(29:32):
Okay.
Now, this is the surface levelof conversation.
Okay, this is the base level.
This is the small talk that youget into that that runs the
house, but never actuallyimpacts the heart, right?
So questions that would be inthis routine level are what time
are you coming home?
Uh, did you pay the water bill?
(29:52):
What's for dinner?
Right now, these questionsmatter, but they're just at a
functional level.
But your marriage isn't in anoperations department.
Right.
It's a covenant.
It's a bond.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
Sometimes it feels like it with kids.
I mean, right?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
Um, but this is why couples endup feeling like just really
great roommates because theconversations are just
reminders, they're errands,their schedules, all that stuff,
right?
So the next step to it isinformation.
This is the next layer or nextlayer deeper.
And this is where you move fromtransactions to facts about your
(30:26):
world, okay?
Slightly deeper.
So questions that are in theinformation level are what
happened at work, right?
Uh, what did the teacher say atthat parent-teacher meeting?
Or what did your mom want whenshe called?
Uh, how did that project wrapup?
Now, at this level, you couldthink of you're exchanging news
headlines from your day.
(30:46):
It's better than nothing, butagain, you're still reporting
news, not revealing anything,right?
So, but here you can think aboutthis as being the on-ramp, not
the final destination.
This is where most guys fall offthe map, right here.
They don't go further.
Okay, and there's a reason why.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
And this is where we normally say, What do you mean?
We just had we just talkedyesterday about this.
Or of course we talked.
We had a great conversationabout your mom.
Yeah, go ahead.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
So the third, the third level here is is S, and
that stands for story.
And this is where the wallsstart to crack open.
Okay, so story moves beyond frombeyond what happened to how it
impacted her.
Okay.
This begins to pull emotionsinto those facts.
This is where trust and empathystarts to grow.
(31:37):
So, examples of story-basedquestions would be how did that
how did that meeting make youfeel?
Right?
What was the hardest part ofyour day today?
Not, hey, how was your day?
What was the hardest part,right?
Another great question is whatdo you wish I understood better
about you that you're dealingwith?
(31:58):
What's something that you'redealing with now that you that
you wish I would understand moreof, right?
This is where uh you kind ofhave to drop your guard.
And it gives her permission todrop hers too.
Now, this is interesting becausethere was a clinical
psychologist named Dr.
Sue Johnson.
She's written some brilliantstuff.
She found that when couplesregularly share feelings, not
just facts, their sense ofemotional safety increases by
(32:21):
80%.
But here's why men kind of shyaway from this.
Because when when she startstalking about her feelings, you
start to feel like you need tofix it.
But you can't fix it, right?
Because that's a feeling, and soyou start to get uncomfortable.
And what she wants you to do ishear her feelings without
flinching.
(32:41):
So it gets a little bit like Idon't want to hear about how
she's upset because now, but butbecause my hands are gonna be
tied, right?
I can't fix it.
The second, the fourth level,which is the deepest level, is
E, and that stands for essence.
Okay, this is where intimacy isborn in a in a relationship when
it comes to connecting with ourwife.
(33:04):
This is about meaning.
Okay, this is the inner worldwhere few people ever get
invited to.
This is where her fears live,this is where her spiritual
questions live, where herwildest dreams live.
So examples of essence-basedquestions will be what's
something that's been on yourheart or your mind lately that
you haven't said out loud?
I mean, it's a deep question,right?
And we wouldn't naturally thinkto ask that.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Um, or what's one thing that you're believing for
or that you're praying for thatyou haven't told me?
Or another one might be, whatdream keeps tugging at you that
you wish we talk about more?
And one of my favorites iswhat's one thing you'd love for
our family to do, be, or see inthe next five years?
I'm throwing a lot at you, butthis level is exactly what your
(33:50):
wife wanted when she said, Iwant to feel close to you.
If you've ever heard her say, Ifeel like you're I've married a
robot, or you never talk aboutyour feelings, or we don't talk
like we used to.
This is the stuff that she'scraving.
And the the payoff here is real,obviously, but so is the risk,
right?
Because going here means thatshe's gonna share fears, again,
(34:12):
that you can't fix.
She might share dreams that shehas, like she wants to live in
some beautiful house on thebeach or whatever, and you're
like, Well, I can't, I can'tafford that right now, right?
And then you start kind ofstrategizing or whatever, and it
feels overwhelming, but that'sokay because you're not supposed
to be her savior, you're justsupposed to be her safe place,
right?
And that's that's the reality,is you need to be able to sit
(34:33):
and listen.
And so, a real example, a realsimple example of how this
conversation could go.
Say, for example, you guys get asitter and you're getting ready
to go out on a date night orsomething, or go out to a
friend's house for a party.
Yeah, you're getting ready, andthen the the routine level
question would be, what time arewe leaving for the party?
(34:53):
Basic level, right?
Inform uh that's that's justlike normal routine question.
The information level questionis who's all gonna be there?
Right now we're just exchanginginformation.
Second level, or the third sorrystory is do you feel excited or
anxious about seeing them?
How do you feel about seeing allyour friends?
You see how we're getting intothe emotions here, right?
(35:16):
And then the essence levelquestion is what do you hope
happens there tonight that willmake you feel more connected to
them or to me or to whatever,right?
Deeper, deeper, deeper, right?
So this is kind of how thatworks, and so I share all that
to say it's so so importantbecause, like I said, 80% of the
time initi uh divorces areinitiated is because the wife
(35:37):
feels disconnected emotionallyfrom the man, and that's
significant.
There's a quote from DavidWhite, he's a poet and a
philosopher, and he says theconversation is the
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Yeah, I heard that before.
SPEAKER_01 (35:49):
Yeah, I saw that quote.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
It's a good one.
And that's the thing.
If you want to know the healthof your marriage, look at the
quality of your conversations.
You think about it, Brad.
Yeah, if you never ever talk toyour kids, what kind of
relationship would you have?
Or if you never said, Hey, howare you doing?
How is your day?
You know, and you just say, didyou take did you bring the bike
in?
You know, did you do the chore?
(36:12):
Did you what kind ofrelationship would you have?
It would have crumbled prettyquick, right?
Sure, yeah.
But we do the same thing inmarriage all the time.
And so what happens is you mighteven you might even go out on a
date, but you don't talk aboutanything other than the
schedule.
And what happens is your datenights feel like board meetings,
yeah.
Just with a bit of wine, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Yeah, what I mean.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
No, it's untrue.
That's and that's what happens,is and then we'll we'll go out
on a limb and we'll say, No, no,I'm gonna plan a date.
And we go out on the date, butwe ask the same dead end
questions, and then and andeverything falls flat, and we
both go home feelingunfulfilled, and then we get
frustrated and we say things,well, I'm trying, I keep trying.
I went out on a date.
Well, okay, but what did you doon that date?
(36:53):
Did you connect with her on anemotional level, or did you just
treat her like a like anemployee?
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
Yeah, right.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it totally makes sense.
And we do date nights uh when wewhen we can with kids.
Do you find, and then we'regonna have to wrap this up soon,
but do you find that obviouslywhat I I feel this way?
Your relationship before youhave kids is one thing, and then
after you have kids, it it is itadds a completely different
element, I feel, to the yourrelationship.
(37:19):
Because I I I always say um Isay this a lot, and my wife
can't stand it, but when I sayit, but is the you know there's
two people there's my wife andthere's the mother of my
children.
And they are it it just they'rejust different, they're just a
different people.
Um and I don't know how else tosay it, um, but that's the way I
(37:41):
feel.
I love both of them.
They just react in differentways, you know, and and I think
that's a one of the challenges.
I think that's why a lot oftimes when people have children,
they end up getting divorcedbecause they can't keep they
can't keep their they can't seetheir wife anymore.
They just see the mother of thechildren.
And that is not what youmarried.
(38:03):
You married your wife.
And uh, I don't know if you everhear that or or or if that comes
up or ever, but and I thinkthat's that's uh it's important
that you gotta keep that unitneeds to still be solid in order
for there to be a goodfoundation for the family, too.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
Yeah, well, 100% because what happens is the wife
begins to feel like a mombecause that's what she is most
of the day, and she forgets whatit's she forgets what it feels
like to be a bride.
I love the word bride.
Yeah, bride.
It's like beautiful, right?
And so what happens is she she'sshe's a mom all day, and you
come home and you you kind ofend up sort of she's in mom
mode, and you never ever takeher out of that mom mode, right?
(38:41):
You never remind her about thefact that she's a beautiful
woman, that she's your bride,that she's your wife, that you
love, that you cherish.
And so, and then also, you know,depending on how you show up a
man, which as a man, which wecould talk about in another
time, but um, we the wife endsup treating us like uh like
another child because we're sortof acting like we're we're not
(39:02):
taking full responsibility,we're not showing up, we're not,
you know what I mean?
Sure, and so she ends upbecoming sort of both mother and
father and starts treating uslike a child, right?
And so and I did a podcastepisode about this a little
while ago.
I call and it was called WhenYour Wife Becomes Your Mom.
And this happens all the time.
Yeah, you can see that.
Okay, yeah, and so I say thisall the time and it gets me in
(39:24):
trouble.
But people will ask me, What doyou want your son to know um
about you?
Um, and I say, I want him toknow that he's number two.
And they're like, What you can'tsay.
So good.
I'm like, absolutely, I can saythat.
Because it's my responsibilityto show him that he's number two
because I need to model what agreat relationship is.
(39:44):
Because if he's got any shot athonoring and cherishing a woman
one day when he grows up, thenhe needs to see that modeled for
him.
And our marriage is his firstclassroom on relationships.
So true.
So the first thing I need to dois honor her first.
She needs to be the priority,and this is the problem we get
into is we put all the focus onthe kids.
(40:05):
I can't tell you how many menhave come to me and that I've
coached and they've said, uh, Ifeel like my wife cares more
about the kids than I than me.
Wow.
And that's a fair thing.
That's understandable.
But again, going back to ourfeminine feminine nature,
nurturing, caring for therelationship, caring for her
children, it's just huge.
But we need to understand how tocommunicate these feelings
because if we don't, we getcaught up in all these traps,
(40:29):
right?
And it's all of great intent.
But if we don't know how tocommunicate through these
challenges, this is where we runinto problems, right?
So I would uh commend you insaying that.
Yeah, you're right, man.
There's your wife, and there'sthe the mother of your children.
And it's important that youtreat her as your bride, as your
as her wife, because it'simportant that she feels like a
(40:50):
woman, uh, a sought-after,honored, cherished, attractive
woman from time to time becauseshe can forget what that feels
like too.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Boy, it's just such good stuff,man.
So good.
There's a good there's a reallygood uh episode here.
Um, just some some things realquick before we wrap up.
Um, I love this.
There were two quotes that thatyou had put on Instagram that I
just wanted to bring up.
It hit me, and I wanted to sayuh just the one was uh for
couples unspoken expectationsare the fastest way to breed
(41:18):
resentment.
Your spouse isn't a psychic,they need your voice, not your
silence.
I love that.
Very good.
And then the other one, this wasgood.
This has more to do with kids.
This one almost teared me upwhen I was reading it the first
time.
Um, every bedtime story, everyhug, every encouragement, every
I love you is an investment intheir identity.
Stay focused, stay present.
(41:41):
Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff.
You're you're you're writingsome amazing things.
Uh, anybody that goes toInstagram and reads through your
quotes that you have and all thedifferent messages in there, I
think you will look inward atyourself when you read the
quotes and you'll you'll seeyourself in those quotes of
either A, needing work withthose quotes, uh, or or B, yeah,
(42:03):
yeah, this is how I I do things.
Um, but it's it's all goodstuff.
And I and I really, reallyappreciate you taking the time
to talk to us today because uhit was awesome.
So tell me how do we get intouch with you and tell me uh,
you know, they can they can uhhire you as a coach to help out
with their relationships andtheir life and so and whatnot,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Can can I give you guys yourlisteners a free gift before we
jump out?
SPEAKER_00 (42:25):
Absolutely, you can.
We love free gifts.
Free gifts are good.
SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
Awesome.
Well, I have something called uhjust called the connection code.
It's 50 questions designed tospark the fun and bring the fire
back.
Now, by now, this part this longin the conversation, you
shouldn't be questioning whyit's important to connect with
your wife on an emotional level.
But this is legitimately, man,50 questions that are designed
to cover everything from yourdreams, your your life, your
hopes, passion, intimacy, youname it.
(42:51):
And the only rule is when youtake your wife out on a date, or
maybe you put down the kids andyou pour up a glass of wine, the
only thing you can ask her thatnight are questions from this
list.
And it's totally free.
And if you go to dadnationco.comforward slash code, or I'll give
you the link and you can put itin the show notes.
But just download it.
I'm handing it to you on asilver platter.
I get I get women emailing meall the time, being like, who
(43:13):
was that man that took me out ona date?
Because he was asking mequestions that's just turned me
straight on.
You know what I mean?
That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
Well, I think what we'll do is we're gonna have you
back for sure.
And um, yeah, I think that'sgreat because there's so much
more we didn't talk about.
I have more notes on here.
It's probably one of the thepodcasts for in a long time that
I have more notes than I wantedto talk about that we didn't get
to.
So it'll be good to get to that.
But what else also?
So your dad nation, uh it'sdadnationco.com is the website,
correct?
(43:41):
Or is it yeah, dadnationco.com.
Yeah, there we go.
And then uh the dadnationpodcast, which we can find what?
Spotify?
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yeah, I tell you what, if you just Google Dad
Nation, you'll you'll feelbusted around everywhere.
But I do three things, and I'llsay this real quick, I keep it
real simple.
I do content, courses, andcoaching.
Okay, so the content is just umthe podcast, all that stuff.
I have some online courses youcould do called the high
performance husband, and thenthe coaching, which is the dad
nation coalition.
But either way, man, whetherit's free or you want some
(44:11):
one-to-one service to walkalongside you as a coach, I'm
here to support you, serve youany way I know how.
SPEAKER_00 (44:16):
Awesome, man.
It's awesome.
Great stuff.
I I love it, I love it.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow.
We'll see you hopefully again uhin the next year.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
Brad, listen, it's been a pleasure and an honor, my
friend.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Let's do it again.
Sounds good.
All right, take care.
All right, my goodness, MitchellOsman, the Dad Nation from
Canada.
Man, I'll tell you what, what anincredible show.
That was really good.
I mean, there's so much contentthere.
I'm actually afraid for my wifeto listen to this show.
I'm a little nervous.
I'm worried about what's goingon.
(44:46):
I'm a better husband now, abetter father, too.
Exactly.
All right, that's about it.
Thanks for watching the showevery Thursday, 7 p.m.
We will see you again next week.
All right, that's about it.
Alright, rock and roll.
From real estate.
The market as a whole, it's beensometimes will affect the right
in the real life.
We all learn it.
If you think about it, WayneDyer might not attract everybody
and everything in between.
(00:22):
The Brad Wiseman show.
And now your host, Brad Wiseman.
All right.
I am so excited about this show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
What is it?
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
What is it?
I'm not going to tell you.
You got to guess.
You got to guess what it is.
Now, we have a really good showhere for you, uh, as we normally
do, I think.
Uh we always we always put onsome good shows here, but we
have a really good guest.
It's a guest that I've beenlooking at for uh quite some
time.
And, you know, it caught my eye.
There was uh the his uh manager,the people that help him with
his social media and get him outthere on podcasts, uh, had
(00:54):
reached out to me and you know,looked at his at his uh what
they call it like a one-pager,and it just hit me right away.
I mean, he has this this umorganization called the Dad
Nation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
Dad Nation.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Yeah, Dad Nation, which is, you know, we're dads,
you're a dad, I'm a dad.
And it hit me.
And then I started reading someof the quotes and stuff on
Instagram, and I was like, Igotta get this.
This guy's gotta be on the show.
So his name is Mitchell Osman.
Mitchell, how are you doing,man?
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
My friend, I'm doing well, and I'm happy to be on the
show and chatting with you guystoday.
Yeah, awesome.
You're all the way from Canada.
Mm-hmm.
They're friendly neighbor fromthe north, man.
Are you cold yet up there?
Nah, it's it's it's starting toget a little bit chilly, but
we're we're good.
We're still hanging on.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Still hanging on.
We're still hanging on.
That's good.
We all know snow's coming atsome point, so not much we can
do about that.
But uh, no, you really caught myeye.
You you have this uh this wholething called the Dad Nation,
which I think is very catchy,and and I think it it really
drew me in, you know, as soon asI saw the name.
And I'm just gonna say a little,I'm just gonna say a little bit.
It's like a little bio, a littlesnippet here, but it says, uh,
(01:57):
you're the founder of DadNation, host of a globally
ranked podcast reaching over 33listeners each month, which is
pretty amazing.
Uh, your story is not justauthentic, it's lived.
In just 18 months, you lost 60pounds, uh, paid off over
100,000 in debt to achievefinancial freedom, turned a near
divorce into a thrivingmarriage, and launched a
(02:17):
six-figure executive coachingpractice alongside that top 10%
show that you have.
That's a lot.
And and I, you know, I read thatand then I started reading
everything else, and I was like,yeah, gotta have this guy on.
So tell me, tell me how did youget to creating this dad nation?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Yeah, no, thank you.
Well, first of all, Brad, thankyou for having me on the show.
Um, I'm just really excited tobe here.
And uh, real quick though,before we jump in, I noticed you
you said we I have 33 monthlylisteners.
I just wanted uh to correct.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Yes, you did.
I know I I thought that too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
That's not many.
That's not many.
Well, you know, I was trying tomake ourselves look good, Hugo.
It is 33,000 listeners eachmonth.
Sorry about that, buddy.
I'm so glad you actuallycorrected me on that.
Oh man, that's funny.
So 33,000 listeners isdefinitely a lot more than 33.
And and that's amazing,actually.
(03:13):
It's really incredible.
So, yeah, tell us about the DADnation.
Tell us about how this became33,000 listeners a month.
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah, well, if you'd like, I mean, I can start from
the origin story about kind ofmy turning point.
Yes.
It kind of led me to get to thispoint.
Absolutely.
Um, all right, sounds good.
Well, I'll try and keep thisshort, but uh, because I think
it's a great place to start.
And a lot of people ask me this.
Well, how did you get from thereto here?
Right.
And so for me, there were twocritical points, okay?
The one, uh, two turning points.
(03:41):
One was a fight, and the otherone was a funeral.
Okay, so we'll start with thefight.
Now, if you can picture me andmy wife were sitting on the
couch in the living room oneday, and man, it all hit the
fan.
Like we got into a fight aboutmoney, and that morphed into,
you know, about me working toomuch, not being present, and
then it just started to spiral.
And at this point, we had beenmarried for about three years,
(04:02):
and it was a tough three years,you know, of struggling.
Uh but this fight, this day wasour children or no children at
this point.
No children at this point.
No, this was our rock bottom.
Now we fought all the time, butthis one was different.
And then I knew that today, thisone, I was like, man, I don't I
don't think that I can fix thisone.
Deep down, I I kind of knew thatif something didn't change, I
(04:24):
was gonna lose my wife.
Um, and and and to give you somemore context, I'd recently been
let go of a senior leadershipposition.
And, you know, especially asmen, you know, our career is
everything to us.
Uh, you know, it was my calling,my identity.
I spiraled into depression, likeyou had her said, like you had
said, 60 pounds overweight, 100grand in debt, medicating, you
(04:45):
know, with drugs and alcohol,just trying to cope.
And now I was gettingdangerously close to divorce.
Man, I was, I was all, I waschecked out, stressed out,
burned out, like all the outs,you know, right?
And just um, and I was perplexedwith this tension, Brad, of
like, why was it that I couldsee success professionally, but
I couldn't figure my life outpersonally?
You know, I could lead teams, Icould cast vision, I could run
(05:08):
board meetings, but when I camehome, I didn't even know how to
talk to my own wife.
And it was such a tension that Iwas living in.
So to bring it back even more,you know, I had come up, I'd
come from a dysfunctionalupbringing.
I had a non-existentrelationship with my father, you
know, alcoholism, drugs, crimewere just a part of my life
growing up.
It was littered throughout myfamily.
And I was kind of caught in themiddle of it all.
(05:29):
So I knew what I didn't want,right?
I knew where it came from, butit for the life of me, man, I
kept getting sucked into thoseold behaviors and and and caught
like sucked into just the past,reliving the mistakes of my
father and his father.
And when I would yell at mywife, I could hear his voice and
mine, I could hear his words.
Oh wow.
(05:49):
And there was this duality, man,that that I felt like I was like
living a lie because I wouldsee, you know, like I said, I'd
see this as successprofessionally, but I would come
home and there was just thistension, right?
And so, you know, for me, thatthat was a was a critical point.
You know, my wife said to me,she said, Um, you go to work and
(06:10):
you give everyone the Mitchellbuffet, and you come home and
you give me the scraps.
And I'm done.
Yeah.
And so seven days later, thatsame the end of that same week
was the second point.
And this was the funeral part ofthe story.
Now, I was invited to sing atthe funeral of this very uh he
was a philanthropist, verysuccessful man.
(06:31):
And I was remember, I was I wasstrapping on my guitar, getting
ready to sing the last song, andI heard the minister say to the
room, he said, Are you living alife worthy of imitation?
Because he was talking aboutthis, all the things this guy
had done.
And he said, If you were to dietomorrow, would you be proud of
the legacy that you left?
And Brad, as I was, as I waswrapping up and trying to sing
(06:54):
the last song, I could barelychoke out the lyrics because all
I could think in that momentwas, man, if this were my
funeral, no one would be saying,He inspired me to have an
amazing marriage, or he inspiredme to get into shape, or he
inspired me to, you know, uh getmy money in order, get my house
in order.
They probably would have said atthat point, he struggled, and
(07:14):
then it was over, you know, andthat's the thing, Brad.
In that moment, like people weretelling stories about this man
because that's what we do whensomeone passes away.
And it was uh his life wasfilled with incredible chapters.
And so I was determined that daythat I would go home and begin
to rewrite chapters for me, thatI was gonna take the pen back
(07:35):
and rewrite my future.
Because up until that point, thefirst chapter of my life was my
childhood, and that was a sadone.
The second chapter of my lifewas my marriage, and that was a
big struggle.
And so I decided, man, I have todie to the man that I used to be
to become the man that I know Ineed to be for my wife and my,
you know, for my family.
And so I knew, you know, and weknow this.
(07:55):
If you want different results,you have to make different
decisions.
That's the old Einstein's olddefinition of insanity, right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Yeah, doing the same thing over and over again.
SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
Exactly.
And so what I did, Brad, was Ijust, and again, I actually
ended up building frameworksaround this, but I did this
intuitively, but now Iunderstand the significance of
it.
I just started reaching out tomen in my life that were ahead
of me, right?
Men who my my ceiling was theirfloor.
You understand what I mean?
And and so, and these mensurrounded me, and they were
(08:25):
these guys were thriving intheir marriage, they're thriving
in business, they're thriving intheir fitness, you you know, you
name it.
And they taught me everything Ineeded to know.
They and they showed me what waspossible, right, for my life.
And they held me to the standardthat I said I wanted for myself.
And like you said in the intro,you know, within 18 months, paid
off the 100 grand, restored mymarriage, lost 60 pounds, and
(08:47):
was clean of substances anddistractions.
And so, what's interesting aboutthat is because I was always in
public positions of leadership,people started asking questions
like, What are you doing, man?
How did you do all this?
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
And so I started helping people in my life, just
friends of mine who are having ahard time or putting budgets
together to help them get out ofdebt or making meal plans for
them.
And then one of my mentorschallenged me.
He said, Man, if you really wantto have impact, you need to
start a podcast and starttelling, sharing with people
what you've learned and whatyou've and just tell your story.
And so I launched a Dad Nationpodcast about a year and a half
(09:21):
ago.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Cool.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
And then within about six months, it was a
globally top-rated 10% podcast.
And then I had people uh sendingme messages from across across
North America saying, Hey, wouldyou help?
Could you, could you, you know,help me in my situation?
And that's when I decided tolaunch the coaching practice.
And that's what I do today, man.
I I help high-performing menreclaim their home, their
(09:42):
health, and happiness withoutsacrificing their career
success.
And I would argue that today youcan have you can have the the
business, you can have theincome, and you can still see
your son's soccer games or go toyour daughter's dance recital.
You can do it.
It's not a lot of people aredoing it well, um, but doesn't
mean you can't.
And so that's what that's mystory, man.
Why do we I struggle witheverything you're talking about?
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Every single thing.
My wife listens to this, she'sgonna be like, I'm telling you,
man, this is gonna be aconversation.
She this this I I struggle withevery single thing that you're
talking about.
Every single thing.
So it's it's when you'retalking, it's like you're
talking to me.
Um, I think I and I don't, and Iknow this because I have other
friends that that that are verymuch like a workaholic, whatever
(10:26):
you want to call it.
I'm very into success or ormoving forward and and making
money and things like that.
And some of the reasons too linkback from my parents were great,
but the only fight they ever hadwas about money.
So when you grow up with withthat, and there's nothing wrong
with that, love my parents,they're awesome people, but that
(10:48):
was that was what the fightswere about.
So in my mind, I was always, Iam gonna do everything I can in
a relationship to never fightabout money, you know.
So, you know, I think is that'sis that the common one is the
money thing?
Why do we put ourselves in thissituation?
Why are we not present at homethe way we should be?
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Yeah, such a good question.
And a great place to startbecause this is the great irony
about this man, about being aman, especially being a high
performer, someone who's reallycareer-driven, is because we
work so hard to provide thislife for the family.
But in many cases,statistically, it's shown that
we actually will end up losingthe family we're working so hard
(11:31):
to provide for, because weactually lose the family in
because we work so much.
You understand what I mean?
Yeah, totally.
And then what happens is we getwe get disconnected from our
kids, we get disconnected fromour wife, and then they say,
Well, where are you?
What you work too much, and thenyou say, Well, I'm no, I'm just
trying to provide.
This is what I do.
And then you feel disrespectedbecause you're just trying to
provide, and then she feelsunloved.
(11:53):
So then she starts, you knowwhat I mean?
So you get caught in this cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
And this is the challenge of being a man and who
wants to wants to uh providefinancially and wants to work
hard.
And I'll tell you the reason whyis we lose focus.
Okay.
So let me talk about themasculine versus the feminine
for a moment.
Um, now when I talk about this,I'm talking about the essence,
(12:17):
right?
Not necessarily the gender, butspecifically, we know that you
know, generally men are moremasculine than women.
Um, we have to be careful thesedays.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Yeah, be careful.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
Hence my tiptoeing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
I can tell you're tiptoeing, and you're doing a
great job, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Do you have eggshells under you?
Right?
It feels like it.
Yeah, go ahead.
Um, so you want to think aboutthe essence of masculinity.
It's driven by performance, it'sdriven by excellence, it's
driven by purpose, by mission,right?
The feminine is driven byemotions, it's driven by
nurturing, uh, relationships,you know, intuition, all these
(12:58):
different things.
Uh a buddy of mine said uh themasculine is doing, the feminine
is being.
And I think that's a beautiful,uh, real simple explanation.
But what happens is we get sortof caught in this trap, is we
find a lot of our validationthrough what we do as men,
right?
And it fulfills something in usbecause we're masculine.
(13:20):
And so, for example, let's thinkabout it this way: if you go to
a Super Bowl party, this is awhat this is on display, so it
makes it so easy to see.
Where do you typically see themen that are at the party?
Uh, in front of the TV.
Exactly.
Now, they're in front of the TV,they're watching the athletes
doing what they do best becauseathletes are some of the most
(13:40):
purpose-driven.
They're on a mission, they'reexcellent in what they do, they
have very clear purpose.
It we're like moths to a flame.
We're drawn to it because we canalso quantify it.
Because sports, you can you cantell good, bad, medium, you
know, whatever.
Where are the women usually atthe Super Bowl party?
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Chatting over at the bar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Exactly.
Chatting around the table,sipping a glass of wine.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Right?
Asking, hey, how are the kids?
How's how's Brad doing?
You know, they're nurturing therelationships, they're
connecting emotionally.
They're I mean, and that's justa part of the feminine
expression.
But here's where this we have tobe careful is because men, and
now, so now that we understandour wiring, we go to work all
day and we fix things and weprovide solutions and we
(14:26):
strategize all day for eight,10, 12 hours a day, however long
you work.
And it's totally in alignmentwith our essence as men, and
it's our skill set because weget really good at it.
We come home to a woman wholoves us, but could give a rip
about strategy or aboutexcellence or purpose or any of
that stuff.
(14:47):
And what happens is we startshoving like we start treating
treating our wives likeemployees or staff members.
We start treating our kids likeour colleagues, right?
And because that's what we doall day.
And so when our wife talks abouthaving a bad day or something's
going on, she wants to beconnected with emotionally, but
all we start to do is try to fixthings because that's what we've
(15:09):
been doing all day.
So it's like, well, yeah, ofcourse I'm gonna fix this.
Then she gets upset becauseshe's like, No, no, you're not
hearing me.
I just want you to hear me.
And you're like, I am hearingyou, I'm just trying to fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
And so I don't want are you watching our house with
a camera and a microphone?
Or I'm just wondering, like, isthis just getting creepy now?
It's really getting creepy.
No, but you're so, so right.
You know, they the you she'llstart to share, and then you you
then it's like, well, Sally didthis and whatever.
I'm like, well, Sally needs tounderstand her plan.
I start going into the fix mode,and well, why is Sally doing
(15:43):
that?
And you know, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Well, what happens is you start shoving a strategy
down her throat.
Yep, and that's but not what sheneeds, or you're at least you're
trying to formulate one that shecan take to Sally.
Yeah.
And she's like, I don't, I justneed to sit and feel this for a
moment.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
And as a man, you're like, what are you talking
about?
Why would you ever want to feelthat?
Like just get just you know, getfix it, right?
And so a buddy of mine said thisanalogy, which I think is
brilliant.
Sometimes that male expression,um, when they come home and they
have to sort of listen to maybeit's their daughter or their
wife, you know, struggling withsomething, but yet not being
able to fix it.
They feel like you're it's likeyou're standing in front of a
(16:18):
house that's up in flames, andyou got this fire hose that's
fully charged, and you gottajust keep it turned off and just
watch the house burn.
Yes.
That's sometimes what it feelslike, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
That's funny.
That's a good analogy.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Yeah.
So what happens is there's thisbig disconnect, right?
And so the husband feels like,man, I am so uh a man's two
greatest needs are to feelrespected and to feel competent.
Okay.
So what happens is when the wifefeels unheard or unloved or
unseen, she starts to make, shestarts to say things like, Well,
(16:52):
you're not hearing me.
What are you, a robot?
Like, what's wrong with you?
Why don't you talk about yourfeelings, whatever?
And you start to feelincompetent as a man in the
house or as a husband.
And so what happens?
Because we're driven byaccomplishments, by tangible,
tactical things.
We can't quantify what successlooks like at home.
It's much harder, right?
Like I tell my tell my clientsall the time, you're never gonna
(17:14):
come home and your six-year-oldson is not gonna be like, hey,
daddy, here are five reasons whyyou're a an effective father.
You know, like he's just notgonna do that, right?
But when you go to work, oh, youget performance bonuses, you
close this many contracts,revenue is up last quarter.
Very easy to quantify, very easyto wrap strategies around it.
So at work, you're like, I knowI'm being successful, I know I'm
(17:35):
competent, and I'm usuallyrespected by my colleagues or my
boss or whatever.
But when you come home, allthose lines get blurry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Oh, yeah, because you're not they're not gonna pat
you on the back for come forbeing at work.
Exactly.
And I think sometimes that'swhat we look for.
Like you know, you realize Ijust closed this much of a deal,
you know.
It doesn't really matter becausethey're that's not what they're
worried about.
And you come home all excited,yeah, and they don't and they
don't care, and then theypoo-poo the whole thing.
(18:03):
The whole poo-poo, the wholething, the poo-poo the whole
thing.
It's all done.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Because that is not a value forher.
It's actually fundamentally nothow she's wired, and and that's
by design, because her role andher responsibility is to be the
nurturing, uh, caring, loving,supportive, emotional sort of
(18:27):
part of that relationship.
That's the um the being sense,right?
Yes, and so that that createsthat emotional safety in the
home.
And so she's actually wired likethat for a reason.
But if we're not aware of that,um, what happens is those two
strengths, the masculine and thefeminine, which are incredible
strengths and both are needed,there's a reason why we have
(18:47):
opposite polarities.
Um, they we end up pinning themagainst each other and they end
up pulling us apart.
And so David Data says in hisbook, The Way of the Superior
Man, he calls it the greatmasculine error.
And he says, This greatmasculine error is that you will
think, you think that somedayyou're gonna understand it, that
one day you will understand yourwife or you'll understand the
(19:09):
feminine, you know.
But the reality is the mech thethe masculine will full forever
be uh perplexed by the feminine,and the feminine will be
perplexed by the masculine untilwe understand how we're wired
and how our strengths can serveone another.
And so this is where thistension comes from, Brad.
Why you you feel like such asuccess at at work and you come
(19:32):
home and you don't even knowwhere your place is.
And when you do try and talk,you're like, you don't care what
I'm talking about.
And and the solutions I'moffering, you don't seem to want
to hear.
So what am I doing here?
Because this is what I'm goodat, right?
Yeah, and you start to feel likean like a nuisance in your own
home.
Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Now, you you know, you you talk about all this
stuff, okay?
What what do you find to be themost challenging?
Uh everything we just talkedabout.
I love the honesty, dude.
I love it.
Because you know, we could allsit here.
I mean, I you know, I I can sithere and tell people to like
this is this is gonna be taken adifferent way.
I'm a realtor.
(20:08):
I can tell somebody all day,hey, if you're thinking about
buying something, make sure youget pre-approved.
I mean, why would you not dothat?
Well, my wife and I went to buya place at the beach two years
ago, found the place, and guesswhat we didn't have done?
Pre-approval.
So I'm rushing around getting apre-approval.
But what's funny is we sometimeswe don't do what we tell others
(20:29):
to do.
But you know, you're obviously,you know, you're really uh on a
high level with this stuff.
So you is it's still always doyou have to make it is it front
of mind to think about, or hasit become more natural to know
how the difference between themasculine and feminine and know
how why she's saying something acertain way or why why this
there's an argument about this?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's it I tell you what,um there's no uh it there's just
skills that need to bedeveloped.
You need to have somebody thatputs this in front of you, but
you need to practice it, yeah,right.
So a lot of my clients are like,they'll come to me like, man, I
totally blew it again.
You know, I'm like, well, hey,how many times did you lose your
cool this week?
You know, and they're like,Well, four.
I'm like, well, four is betterthan seven because last week you
(21:13):
were doing it every single day.
That's a significantimprovement.
But the reality is, and thechallenging part about this is
the only time you get topractice is when you're in the
middle of the moment, right?
And that's why it gets sodifficult.
And so we gotta understandyou're what you know.
I can teach you skills and toolsand frameworks on how to catch
(21:34):
yourself in the moment.
And I'd love to teach some ofthose in our conversation today
to help your listeners.
But at the end of the day, thereis there is this is a skill that
we have to develop becausegenerally speaking, men really
struggle with their emotions,they really struggle with with
even understanding what's goingon.
Uh, and because and but we'realso married to emotional
wizards, uh, women who just likethey were raised with it, right?
(21:57):
And and it's an interesting termthat I'll share with you.
It's a bit of a mouthful, butit's called normative male
alexathymia.
Okay, now this is apsychological term that has been
coined to explain thisphenomenon, okay?
So the term alexathymia actuallyits roots come from the Greek,
okay?
So the the word a means lack orwithout, and then the word
(22:20):
thymos means without emotion orfeelings.
And so when you put uh and thenthymos or sorry, thymos means
without emotions, and so whenyou put the words alexithymia
together, it means a lack ofwords for emotion.
So what this means is when menare pressed to talk about their
feelings, or when they're asked,well, what do you feel?
(22:41):
or what and this is why westruggle so much in traditional
therapy, it's because we we'vebeen raised in a culture where
we're actually uncomfortabletalking about our emotions.
And even if we did, we wouldn'tnecessarily have the words to
talk about it.
And so we marry very emotionalbeings who are very in tune with
their emotions and they want tobe connected with, but we
(23:02):
literally don't have the wordsfor it often.
So what I do a lot of the timesis I just teach men how to
understand their emotions, talkabout them, you know, and
communicate them clearly becausewhat happens is the reality is
men have just as many emotionsas men women, but we don't
recognize them and talk aboutthem or understand them.
And so they bottle up, bottleup, and all of a sudden, boom,
(23:24):
they snap because we're we'realso masculine, so we can be
aggressive, and that it becomesthe only outlet.
We either snap or we shut down.
Both are not great options in ahealthy marriage, right?
Definitely not.
And so that's that's what Iwould say is is it's a matter of
learning these skills and thenpracticing them over time.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Makes a lot of sense.
And the other thing, too, is Ithink, you know, I I was married
once before.
So one one of the things that Ilearned, I think anybody that
goes through a divorce oranybody who goes through any
kind of a relationship completebreakup um needs to understand
it.
I always said to people, I was100% responsible just as she was
a hundred percent responsiblefor us separating or getting
(24:06):
divorced.
And one of the things is thatthere's there's usually cues,
there's usually hints, there'susually little things that they
drop out there that as me as aguy didn't pick up on the cues.
You know what I mean?
Just didn't pick up on them.
And I'll never forget when shedid when she said she was
leaving.
I'll never forget going, Oh,that's what that meant.
(24:30):
Oh, I remember that she saidthis.
You start to realize that therewas all kinds of clues and and
out there, but we're not builtto pick that stuff up.
You know, we're just not.
And and it did make me a betterperson to be married to now.
You know, I think it's a lot ofit is just learning about
yourself and learning that, youknow, you need to listen to
(24:52):
these things.
You need to listen to whenpeople say that they're that you
work too much, that maybe thatmeans you work too much.
Um, you know, it's not just acomplaint, it's it's it's a it's
something they're feeling.
Um, so yeah, it's it's uh youknow, it's interesting how those
things work with with uh withrelationships.
But luckily you were able tosave your relationship, which is
great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Yeah, and I'll tell you what, Brad, that's uh the
you know, you talk about how wemiss things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Uh that's by design, because we're we're created to
be able to compartmentalize.
We're created to be able to letgo and oversee and contain
thoughts and move forwardbecause we need to in order to
be productive.
We need to in order to pressforward.
And and we've been literallybuilt, not just physically
stronger, but emotionallystronger in the sense of we can
compartmentalize, let things go,um, so that we can bear the
(25:43):
weight for our families.
We're designed to take theweight, not just physically, but
you know, emotionally and allthose different things.
So, guys letting things go,that's actually part of our
design.
Yeah, but and so it's not a badthing, but we have to learn how
to bridge that gap, right?
And what you're saying is so keybecause there's a statistic, and
this is part of the reason why Ilaunched this whole movement,
(26:03):
was because in the United Statestoday, we know that seven out of
every ten divorces are initiatedby the women in the
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Wow, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Now, and it gets crazier.
In a situation where the wife isa high earner or she's got an
education, that number goes tonine out of ten divorces are
initiated by women.
90% of divorces are initiated bywomen.
And of those 90%, 80% of thetime the divorce is initiated.
The reason cited is because theyfeel disconnected emotionally
(26:35):
from their husband.
Unbelievable.
Isn't that crazy?
SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
Yeah, right there it is.
So that's why I talk so muchabout the emotions.
Yeah, I mean, and it's the proofis in the in the statistics.
I mean, there right there it is.
It's incredible.
And what's funny you said aboutthe high when the woman, when
the woman is is the high earner,whatever, it didn't change, it
made it worse.
Is that is that right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
Yeah, because now she doesn't she the reason why
some women stay in into in arelationship where they're maybe
unhappy is because a lot oftimes is because the man is the
primary uh you know provider.
Yeah, and so um I get a lot ofwomen follow me on Instagram,
and sometimes they'll message meand be like, my if my husband
didn't make so much money, I'dleave him.
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:15):
Dude, I got a message like that earlier this
morning.
It's real.
Yeah, and so that's why womenwho get the education and earn
higher amounts, they don't needthe man anymore for that piece,
right?
Yeah, and so this should be ascreaming amber flash to any man
listening, because this happensevery single day.
(27:35):
And and I would say, Brad, like70% of my clients who come to me
say, I just woke up one day andmy wife just threatened divorce.
And I had no idea what was goingon.
SPEAKER_00 (27:46):
I thought we were fine.
That was my story.
That what the last with the withthe marriage before.
It was out of nowhere.
Just um, I'll never forget.
She said, Um, uh, I need to, Ineed to get away.
I said, What do you what do youwant to get?
What do you mean?
We just got back from vacation.
We why do you need to get awayagain?
We had no children.
And she goes, No, I need to getaway from you.
I'm like, Oh, that's a that's areal tough one to take.
(28:07):
Yeah, a little ego shot there.
Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's aninteresting, but like I said,
you learn I learned so much fromthat.
Learned so much, you know.
And unfortunately, I had to gothrough that.
But you know, I also have anamazing wife now and two kids,
so everything's kind of meant tohappen in life.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Well, yeah, and you're better for it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Um, if you if you're interested, I'd be happy to
share uh a framework that I usewith my one-to-one clients that
can help.
Absolutely.
Awesome.
Okay, now if you're a manlistening, this is gonna be
hugely helpful for you.
If you're a woman listening,this is still gonna be helpful
because you can help yourhusband in this journey, okay?
So it's called the RiseConversation Ladder.
And this is I want you to thinkabout this as sort of like a
(28:48):
ladder of like or rungs of aconversation, if you will,
because a lot of theserelationships, uh, a lot of
marriages are starved for depth,right?
Not because the husbands don'tlove their wives, but because
they've forgotten how to talk tothem, you know, in a in an
emotional way.
And so the the reality is, youknow, we can build a bank
(29:08):
account, we can create a lifeschedule, um, but still feel
like strangers passing in thehallway.
So this this framework is simpleenough to remember on your worst
day and powerful enough tochange the way you connect
forever.
So uh the word rise, obviouslyit's four letters, R-I-S-E,
stands for the four differentsteps.
Okay, so the first step is R,which stands for routine.
(29:32):
Okay.
Now, this is the surface levelof conversation.
Okay, this is the base level.
This is the small talk that youget into that that runs the
house, but never actuallyimpacts the heart, right?
So questions that would be inthis routine level are what time
are you coming home?
Uh, did you pay the water bill?
(29:52):
What's for dinner?
Right now, these questionsmatter, but they're just at a
functional level.
But your marriage isn't in anoperations department.
Right.
It's a covenant.
It's a bond.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
Sometimes it feels like it with kids.
I mean, right?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
Um, but this is why couples endup feeling like just really
great roommates because theconversations are just
reminders, they're errands,their schedules, all that stuff,
right?
So the next step to it isinformation.
This is the next layer or nextlayer deeper.
And this is where you move fromtransactions to facts about your
(30:26):
world, okay?
Slightly deeper.
So questions that are in theinformation level are what
happened at work, right?
Uh, what did the teacher say atthat parent-teacher meeting?
Or what did your mom want whenshe called?
Uh, how did that project wrapup?
Now, at this level, you couldthink of you're exchanging news
headlines from your day.
(30:46):
It's better than nothing, butagain, you're still reporting
news, not revealing anything,right?
So, but here you can think aboutthis as being the on-ramp, not
the final destination.
This is where most guys fall offthe map, right here.
They don't go further.
Okay, and there's a reason why.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
And this is where we normally say, What do you mean?
We just had we just talkedyesterday about this.
Or of course we talked.
We had a great conversationabout your mom.
Yeah, go ahead.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
So the third, the third level here is is S, and
that stands for story.
And this is where the wallsstart to crack open.
Okay, so story moves beyond frombeyond what happened to how it
impacted her.
Okay.
This begins to pull emotionsinto those facts.
This is where trust and empathystarts to grow.
(31:37):
So, examples of story-basedquestions would be how did that
how did that meeting make youfeel?
Right?
What was the hardest part ofyour day today?
Not, hey, how was your day?
What was the hardest part,right?
Another great question is whatdo you wish I understood better
about you that you're dealingwith?
(31:58):
What's something that you'redealing with now that you that
you wish I would understand moreof, right?
This is where uh you kind ofhave to drop your guard.
And it gives her permission todrop hers too.
Now, this is interesting becausethere was a clinical
psychologist named Dr.
Sue Johnson.
She's written some brilliantstuff.
She found that when couplesregularly share feelings, not
just facts, their sense ofemotional safety increases by
(32:21):
80%.
But here's why men kind of shyaway from this.
Because when when she startstalking about her feelings, you
start to feel like you need tofix it.
But you can't fix it, right?
Because that's a feeling, and soyou start to get uncomfortable.
And what she wants you to do ishear her feelings without
flinching.
(32:41):
So it gets a little bit like Idon't want to hear about how
she's upset because now, but butbecause my hands are gonna be
tied, right?
I can't fix it.
The second, the fourth level,which is the deepest level, is
E, and that stands for essence.
Okay, this is where intimacy isborn in a in a relationship when
it comes to connecting with ourwife.
(33:04):
This is about meaning.
Okay, this is the inner worldwhere few people ever get
invited to.
This is where her fears live,this is where her spiritual
questions live, where herwildest dreams live.
So examples of essence-basedquestions will be what's
something that's been on yourheart or your mind lately that
you haven't said out loud?
I mean, it's a deep question,right?
And we wouldn't naturally thinkto ask that.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Um, or what's one thing that you're believing for
or that you're praying for thatyou haven't told me?
Or another one might be, whatdream keeps tugging at you that
you wish we talk about more?
And one of my favorites iswhat's one thing you'd love for
our family to do, be, or see inthe next five years?
I'm throwing a lot at you, butthis level is exactly what your
(33:50):
wife wanted when she said, Iwant to feel close to you.
If you've ever heard her say, Ifeel like you're I've married a
robot, or you never talk aboutyour feelings, or we don't talk
like we used to.
This is the stuff that she'scraving.
And the the payoff here is real,obviously, but so is the risk,
right?
Because going here means thatshe's gonna share fears, again,
(34:12):
that you can't fix.
She might share dreams that shehas, like she wants to live in
some beautiful house on thebeach or whatever, and you're
like, Well, I can't, I can'tafford that right now, right?
And then you start kind ofstrategizing or whatever, and it
feels overwhelming, but that'sokay because you're not supposed
to be her savior, you're justsupposed to be her safe place,
right?
And that's that's the reality,is you need to be able to sit
(34:33):
and listen.
And so, a real example, a realsimple example of how this
conversation could go.
Say, for example, you guys get asitter and you're getting ready
to go out on a date night orsomething, or go out to a
friend's house for a party.
Yeah, you're getting ready, andthen the the routine level
question would be, what time arewe leaving for the party?
(34:53):
Basic level, right?
Inform uh that's that's justlike normal routine question.
The information level questionis who's all gonna be there?
Right now we're just exchanginginformation.
Second level, or the third sorrystory is do you feel excited or
anxious about seeing them?
How do you feel about seeing allyour friends?
You see how we're getting intothe emotions here, right?
(35:16):
And then the essence levelquestion is what do you hope
happens there tonight that willmake you feel more connected to
them or to me or to whatever,right?
Deeper, deeper, deeper, right?
So this is kind of how thatworks, and so I share all that
to say it's so so importantbecause, like I said, 80% of the
time initi uh divorces areinitiated is because the wife
(35:37):
feels disconnected emotionallyfrom the man, and that's
significant.
There's a quote from DavidWhite, he's a poet and a
philosopher, and he says theconversation is the
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Yeah, I heard that before.
SPEAKER_01 (35:49):
Yeah, I saw that quote.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
It's a good one.
And that's the thing.
If you want to know the healthof your marriage, look at the
quality of your conversations.
You think about it, Brad.
Yeah, if you never ever talk toyour kids, what kind of
relationship would you have?
Or if you never said, Hey, howare you doing?
How is your day?
You know, and you just say, didyou take did you bring the bike
in?
You know, did you do the chore?
(36:12):
Did you what kind ofrelationship would you have?
It would have crumbled prettyquick, right?
Sure, yeah.
But we do the same thing inmarriage all the time.
And so what happens is you mighteven you might even go out on a
date, but you don't talk aboutanything other than the
schedule.
And what happens is your datenights feel like board meetings,
yeah.
Just with a bit of wine, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Yeah, what I mean.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
No, it's untrue.
That's and that's what happens,is and then we'll we'll go out
on a limb and we'll say, No, no,I'm gonna plan a date.
And we go out on the date, butwe ask the same dead end
questions, and then and andeverything falls flat, and we
both go home feelingunfulfilled, and then we get
frustrated and we say things,well, I'm trying, I keep trying.
I went out on a date.
Well, okay, but what did you doon that date?
(36:53):
Did you connect with her on anemotional level, or did you just
treat her like a like anemployee?
SPEAKER_00 (36:57):
Yeah, right.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it totally makes sense.
And we do date nights uh when wewhen we can with kids.
Do you find, and then we'regonna have to wrap this up soon,
but do you find that obviouslywhat I I feel this way?
Your relationship before youhave kids is one thing, and then
after you have kids, it it is itadds a completely different
element, I feel, to the yourrelationship.
(37:19):
Because I I I always say um Isay this a lot, and my wife
can't stand it, but when I sayit, but is the you know there's
two people there's my wife andthere's the mother of my
children.
And they are it it just they'rejust different, they're just a
different people.
Um and I don't know how else tosay it, um, but that's the way I
(37:41):
feel.
I love both of them.
They just react in differentways, you know, and and I think
that's a one of the challenges.
I think that's why a lot oftimes when people have children,
they end up getting divorcedbecause they can't keep they
can't keep their they can't seetheir wife anymore.
They just see the mother of thechildren.
And that is not what youmarried.
(38:03):
You married your wife.
And uh, I don't know if you everhear that or or or if that comes
up or ever, but and I thinkthat's that's uh it's important
that you gotta keep that unitneeds to still be solid in order
for there to be a goodfoundation for the family, too.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
Yeah, well, 100% because what happens is the wife
begins to feel like a mombecause that's what she is most
of the day, and she forgets whatit's she forgets what it feels
like to be a bride.
I love the word bride.
Yeah, bride.
It's like beautiful, right?
And so what happens is she she'sshe's a mom all day, and you
come home and you you kind ofend up sort of she's in mom
mode, and you never ever takeher out of that mom mode, right?
(38:41):
You never remind her about thefact that she's a beautiful
woman, that she's your bride,that she's your wife, that you
love, that you cherish.
And so, and then also, you know,depending on how you show up a
man, which as a man, which wecould talk about in another
time, but um, we the wife endsup treating us like uh like
another child because we're sortof acting like we're we're not
(39:02):
taking full responsibility,we're not showing up, we're not,
you know what I mean?
Sure, and so she ends upbecoming sort of both mother and
father and starts treating uslike a child, right?
And so and I did a podcastepisode about this a little
while ago.
I call and it was called WhenYour Wife Becomes Your Mom.
And this happens all the time.
Yeah, you can see that.
Okay, yeah, and so I say thisall the time and it gets me in
(39:24):
trouble.
But people will ask me, What doyou want your son to know um
about you?
Um, and I say, I want him toknow that he's number two.
And they're like, What you can'tsay.
So good.
I'm like, absolutely, I can saythat.
Because it's my responsibilityto show him that he's number two
because I need to model what agreat relationship is.
(39:44):
Because if he's got any shot athonoring and cherishing a woman
one day when he grows up, thenhe needs to see that modeled for
him.
And our marriage is his firstclassroom on relationships.
So true.
So the first thing I need to dois honor her first.
She needs to be the priority,and this is the problem we get
into is we put all the focus onthe kids.
(40:05):
I can't tell you how many menhave come to me and that I've
coached and they've said, uh, Ifeel like my wife cares more
about the kids than I than me.
Wow.
And that's a fair thing.
That's understandable.
But again, going back to ourfeminine feminine nature,
nurturing, caring for therelationship, caring for her
children, it's just huge.
But we need to understand how tocommunicate these feelings
because if we don't, we getcaught up in all these traps,
(40:29):
right?
And it's all of great intent.
But if we don't know how tocommunicate through these
challenges, this is where we runinto problems, right?
So I would uh commend you insaying that.
Yeah, you're right, man.
There's your wife, and there'sthe the mother of your children.
And it's important that youtreat her as your bride, as your
as her wife, because it'simportant that she feels like a
(40:50):
woman, uh, a sought-after,honored, cherished, attractive
woman from time to time becauseshe can forget what that feels
like too.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Boy, it's just such good stuff,man.
So good.
There's a good there's a reallygood uh episode here.
Um, just some some things realquick before we wrap up.
Um, I love this.
There were two quotes that thatyou had put on Instagram that I
just wanted to bring up.
It hit me, and I wanted to sayuh just the one was uh for
couples unspoken expectationsare the fastest way to breed
(41:18):
resentment.
Your spouse isn't a psychic,they need your voice, not your
silence.
I love that.
Very good.
And then the other one, this wasgood.
This has more to do with kids.
This one almost teared me upwhen I was reading it the first
time.
Um, every bedtime story, everyhug, every encouragement, every
I love you is an investment intheir identity.
Stay focused, stay present.
(41:41):
Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff.
You're you're you're writingsome amazing things.
Uh, anybody that goes toInstagram and reads through your
quotes that you have and all thedifferent messages in there, I
think you will look inward atyourself when you read the
quotes and you'll you'll seeyourself in those quotes of
either A, needing work withthose quotes, uh, or or B, yeah,
(42:03):
yeah, this is how I I do things.
Um, but it's it's all goodstuff.
And I and I really, reallyappreciate you taking the time
to talk to us today because uhit was awesome.
So tell me how do we get intouch with you and tell me uh,
you know, they can they can uhhire you as a coach to help out
with their relationships andtheir life and so and whatnot,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Can can I give you guys yourlisteners a free gift before we
jump out?
SPEAKER_00 (42:25):
Absolutely, you can.
We love free gifts.
Free gifts are good.
SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
Awesome.
Well, I have something called uhjust called the connection code.
It's 50 questions designed tospark the fun and bring the fire
back.
Now, by now, this part this longin the conversation, you
shouldn't be questioning whyit's important to connect with
your wife on an emotional level.
But this is legitimately, man,50 questions that are designed
to cover everything from yourdreams, your your life, your
hopes, passion, intimacy, youname it.
(42:51):
And the only rule is when youtake your wife out on a date, or
maybe you put down the kids andyou pour up a glass of wine, the
only thing you can ask her thatnight are questions from this
list.
And it's totally free.
And if you go to dadnationco.comforward slash code, or I'll give
you the link and you can put itin the show notes.
But just download it.
I'm handing it to you on asilver platter.
I get I get women emailing meall the time, being like, who
(43:13):
was that man that took me out ona date?
Because he was asking mequestions that's just turned me
straight on.
You know what I mean?
That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
Well, I think what we'll do is we're gonna have you
back for sure.
And um, yeah, I think that'sgreat because there's so much
more we didn't talk about.
I have more notes on here.
It's probably one of the thepodcasts for in a long time that
I have more notes than I wantedto talk about that we didn't get
to.
So it'll be good to get to that.
But what else also?
So your dad nation, uh it'sdadnationco.com is the website,
correct?
(43:41):
Or is it yeah, dadnationco.com.
Yeah, there we go.
And then uh the dadnationpodcast, which we can find what?
Spotify?
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yeah, I tell you what, if you just Google Dad
Nation, you'll you'll feelbusted around everywhere.
But I do three things, and I'llsay this real quick, I keep it
real simple.
I do content, courses, andcoaching.
Okay, so the content is just umthe podcast, all that stuff.
I have some online courses youcould do called the high
performance husband, and thenthe coaching, which is the dad
nation coalition.
But either way, man, whetherit's free or you want some
(44:11):
one-to-one service to walkalongside you as a coach, I'm
here to support you, serve youany way I know how.
SPEAKER_00 (44:16):
Awesome, man.
It's awesome.
Great stuff.
I I love it, I love it.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow.
We'll see you hopefully again uhin the next year.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
Brad, listen, it's been a pleasure and an honor, my
friend.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Let's do it again.
Sounds good.
All right, take care.
All right, my goodness, MitchellOsman, the Dad Nation from
Canada.
Man, I'll tell you what, what anincredible show.
That was really good.
I mean, there's so much contentthere.
I'm actually afraid for my wifeto listen to this show.
I'm a little nervous.
I'm worried about what's goingon.
(44:46):
I'm a better husband now, abetter father, too.
Exactly.
All right, that's about it.
Thanks for watching the showevery Thursday, 7 p.m.
We will see you again next week.
All right, that's about it.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!