January 30, 2025 • 33 mins
Why are the early years of a child’s life so important for brain development? How are connections built in the brain, and how can early brain development affect a child’s future health? This episode of The Brain Architects dives into all these questions and more.
First, Dr. Jack Shonkoff, director of the Center on the Developing Child, explains more about the science behind how brains are built—their architecture—and what it means to build a strong brain.
This is followed by a panel discussion with Dr. Judy Cameron, professor of psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh; Debbie LeeKeenan, an early childhood consultant and former director of the Eliot-Pearson Children’s School at Tufts University; and Dr. Pia Rebello Britto, the global chief and senior advisor for the Early Childhood Development Program Division at UNICEF. These panelists discuss the practical side of building brain architecture, and what any parent or caregiver can do to help give children’s brains a strong foundation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to The Brain Architects, a new podcast from the Center on the Developing Child at
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Harvard University.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer.
Our center believes that advances in science can provide a powerful source of new ideas
that can improve outcomes for children and families.
We want to help you apply the science of early childhood development to your everyday interactions
with children and take what you're hearing from our experts and panels and apply it to
your everyday work.
(00:27):
So in today's episode, we're going to dive into the concept of brain architecture and
learn a little bit more about the science behind it.
We'll learn why the early years are really important for brain development and think
about how connections are built in the brain and what a strong or weak foundation in the
brain can mean for a child's future health and development.
Here to help us explain brain architecture is Dr. Jack Schonkoff, professor of child
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health and development and director of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard
University.
Welcome, Jack.
Hey, Sally.
Good to be here.
There's a lot of questions to dive into today, but can you explain where the idea of brain
architecture came from?
I've heard you use the metaphor of a house before, which I found to be really helpful
really thinking about that foundation that's set in the early years.
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Almost 20 years ago, the National Scientific Council on the Developing Child realized that
we needed metaphors to take very complicated science and present it with a phrase that
would capture what it was about and would be remembered.
What came from our early conversations was this very simple fact that brains are built
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over time.
We latched onto this concept of brain architecture and any building begins with a strong foundation.
If the foundation is strong, the building will last a long time.
And if the foundation has a crack in it or it's weak, the building may not fall apart,
but you won't be able to kind of build on it very much over time without having to deal
with some of the weaknesses.
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Think of building communities where multiple houses are built that are all exactly the
same, but then people move in and they bring their own decoration and their own style to
it and every house that's built with the same basic design ends up looking very different.
The more we got into the architecture metaphor, the more we realized how powerful it is in
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terms of understanding this process of brains being built over time.
As I'm listening to you, it's making me think about the nature-nurture argument.
And I know that the current science has a lot to say around that.
Is brain architecture determined solely by our genes?
I love this question.
This whole idea of how much is genetic and how much is the result of experience used
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to be a very fierce argument among scientists.
We now know that there's a very strong genetic and a very strong experience influence.
To stick with the architecture metaphor, think of the genetic contribution as the architect's
blueprint before you begin to build a building.
That's the way genetics contributes.
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It's why most children sit up at a certain age and walk at a certain age, but how those
skills develop, how they're built, how strong they are, what the design looks like, very
little of that is influenced by genetics.
It's influenced by the world in which kids live, the experiences they have, the environment
of relationships they live in that shape the development of the blueprint for that individual.
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Genes determine when circuits get built.
Experience individual differences in people's life experiences determine how those circuits
get built.
And together, they both explain the development of brain architecture.
It's so fascinating.
I know a lot of our listeners are folks who are working directly with kids.
I'm wondering if you could give them some examples of what that building responsive
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relationships looks like and also how that actually goes into building brain architecture.
Another great question.
The key feature of what we mean by environment and what we mean by experiences that shape
brain development really come down to the nature of the interaction between very young
children and the adults who care for them.
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The brain is wired to expect interaction with other people.
It's not looking for interaction with tablets or mobile phones, mainly because those stimulus
sources are not interactive.
This need for interaction is built into our biology, into our genes.
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It comes from eons and eons of evolution.
If there wasn't a reason for it, it wouldn't kind of appear over and over again over eons
from a developmental point of view.
Somebody has to be there engaging and interacting and providing experiences from which you can
learn in order for your brain to build strong circuits.
If the brain is getting bad input, the brain struggles to learn how to deal with it.
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If the brain is getting no input, it's an all signal alert that the world is crashing
down on you, not because it's harming you, but because it's ignoring you.
Negative experiences strengthen brain circuits, threatening negative experiences weaken brain
circuits at a time that they're being made.
One last question.
I can't help but ask, given what you just described about how detrimental some of these
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things can be to a developing brain.
I'm thinking about listeners who have either experienced this themselves or have had children
that have experienced this and that sense that they might have of, this is a doomed
situation.
My foundation is crumbling and completely weak and from there on I'm not able to continue
to build my house.
I just wondered if you could address that.
I'm really so glad you asked that question, Sally, because there are no perfect brains.
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The best parents in the world do a dozen things wrong every day.
There's a lot of science about brain development, but raising healthy, competent children is
much more a bumbling art than it is a precise science.
There's a core concept in biology about adaptation and resilience over time so that it is never
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too late to strengthen the brain's capacity to do things.
Anybody who says, past a certain age, there's nothing you can do, is ignorant of what science
has to say.
On the other hand, it's not true that early doesn't matter.
It's a balance.
Having problems early on, perhaps having a weaker foundation, is not a doomsday scenario
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at all.
It just means that some things are going to have to be worked on a little bit harder.
They would have been easier if we had gotten it right the first time, but it's not too
late.
The take home messages here are early is always better than later.
Prevention of difficulties is better than trying to remediate difficulties later, but
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it is never, ever too late to strengthen capacities.
The brain is always trying to get things right.
If it goes off track, it's always trying to get back on track.
That's the beauty of the science.
It's also the beauty of the magic of human development.
Thank you so much.
So, leave you with that earlier is better, but it's never too late.
(07:08):
Thank you, Sally.
Appreciate it.
When we come back, we'll welcome a few special guests.
Here to discuss the implications of the science of brain architecture, we have Judy Cameron,
PhD.
Judy is a professor of psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh, and the CEO of Working for
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Kids, Building Skills, LLC.
Welcome to the podcast, Judy.
Thank you.
I'm really happy to be here.
We also have Debbie Lekinen joining us.
Debbie's an early childhood consultant and former director of the Elliott Pearson Children's
School at Tufts University.
Hi, Debbie.
Hi.
It's an honor to be here.
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I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Also joining us on the podcast, we have Pia Ribello-Britto, PhD.
She's the global chief and senior advisor, early childhood development program division
at UNICEF.
Welcome, Pia.
It's a pleasure to be on.
Thank you for inviting me.
So, I'd like to start by asking, why is it critical for parents, teachers, and even policymakers
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to understand the importance of brain architecture?
It's important that people, all people who interact with children, understand brain architecture
and how brain architecture is made, because experiences play a really strong role.
The brain is genetically programmed to make connections, but whether those connections
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stay, become strong, and are permanent and there for the child to use their whole lifeline
depends on having experiences that strengthen them.
So you want parents to strengthen children's brain circuits.
You want teachers to do that.
And at the policy level, you want policymakers to vote for things that will give all children
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that opportunity.
To complement, Judy, I want to focus a bit on the policymakers in terms of their understanding
of brain architecture.
Ultimately, as we know, for these positive experiences to occur between children and
their caregivers or parents, these adults in the child's life need time.
They need resources.
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They need services.
And all of that enables them then to be able to engage with their children in a meaningful
manner.
Policymakers, employers in the business sector, all of them create the right policies and
enabling environments that then give the parents that time, that space, the resources they
need.
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Their understanding of brain architecture and the value it holds and how it occurs is
very important then to enable parents to engage in what they love the most, to engage and
interact with their children.
Great.
So Debbie, I know you've been in the field for quite some time in a variety of roles.
And I think our listeners would like to know what are some specific things that teachers,
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parents and caregivers can do to actually help build a healthy brain.
We know that young children learn through everyday play and exploration in safe and
stimulating environments and with relationships with their families, teachers and caregivers.
And young children learn when they're using their whole body and senses, giving opportunity
for young children to explore open-ended materials that can be manipulated and combined in different
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ways.
These provide unlimited play and learning opportunities.
We're talking about locks, little figures, animals, toy cars, balls, spoons, buckets,
pans, baskets or recycled materials.
Through all that, the early childhood brains are open to new experiences and children are
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testing new theories and changing old theories when they learn something new.
So this kind of constructive play allows experimentation, problem solving, higher order thinking, and
as well as language development and social skills.
And they develop new ideas and schema.
It helps them with language development, cognitive skills, problem solving and taking on other
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perspectives and self-regulation.
All of these things are a way that teachers, parents and caregivers can help the brain
develop from very young ages.
I think that what Debbie has said is exactly right.
And one thing parents are always asking is how can we fit this into our everyday life?
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So giving them examples of what they can do while they're cooking dinner, what they can
do while they're driving in the car, what they can do when they're just hanging out
with their kids so that they can begin to be creative.
They have ideas that anytime can be a learning time for a child.
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Great.
Judy, you were part of a team that created a whole game around the concept of brain architecture.
Could you tell us a little bit more about that game?
Who plays it?
What do you think people actually learn from it?
The brain architecture game, people work in small groups.
They have a task of building a brain.
They roll the dice to get their genetic background and that gives you the structure of the base
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of the brain.
And then they draw life experience cards.
And the life experience cards might be a good experience, a really bad stress, which we
would call a toxic stress or a tolerable stress, a stress that can be good for the growth of
the brain or not, that it could be toxic.
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And it really depends on how much social support.
A key issue in the game was to get people to understand that social supports are really
important.
They build their brain out of pipe cleaners with the supports being straws.
And they debate with each other, OK, where am I going to use a support?
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How tall can we get it?
Do we need a little bit more of a sturdy base?
Yeah, Judy, I facilitated that game a few times and I'm always struck by how many times
I hear the term, that's not fair when people are watching their brains collapse.
That's true.
I've played it with over 12,000 people.
I remember playing it at a legislature at one point where the whole legislature decided
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to take an hour out of their day.
And one legislator came in the room and he said, I'm going to build a fantastic brain.
I really care about children and I'm a good architect.
And I said, excellent.
And then his brain collapsed.
And when I asked him what happened, he said, oh, it wasn't my fault.
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And I didn't say anything.
I just looked right at him and he said, oh, my gosh, that's what you're trying to teach
us.
It's not children's fault.
I always think that's such an interesting concept that, of course, that's part of what
you're trying to teach throughout these experiences.
Pia, I'm wondering from your perspective if you can share why the concept of brain architecture
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is so important for us to consider internationally.
And do you have some examples of how this concept is being used all around the world?
Yeah, this is actually a very seminal concept for us to build on internationally, build
on globally, because the situation of children really calls us to take serious action.
So I'm not sure if you're familiar with, but a few numbers to help you contextualize how
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important this is.
The first is that over 250 million children around the world, especially low and middle
income countries, are at risk of not achieving that developmental potential.
And when we look further into that number and understand what's going on, we know that
in 2018, 29 million babies were born into conflict affected areas.
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So they're born into these areas where they're exposed to high degrees of toxic stress.
We know that over 300 million children live in areas with toxic air that we know can damage
the developing brain.
So we know there's a lot of risk factors in the environment.
OK, so that's the broad environment.
So what's going on in the daily lives of children?
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We find across our work that only about 60% of children receive that early stimulation
and responsive care from their parents and caregivers on a consistent basis.
So really, it's just about over half are receiving that type of care that we know is so integral
for brain architecture.
So the case for why we need to bring this concept globally is really important.
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The whole world community aims to achieve certain goals and targets.
And in 2014, to have a very powerful seminar at UNICEF.
Judy was there, Jack was there, the world's leading neuroscientists were there.
And they very clearly laid out a case for what happens when you build this brain architecture
and what happens when it gets derailed.
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Now for the first time in history, there was a goal that looked at child development.
There was an indicator and a target that all countries now are accountable for, that they
are supporting children to make this happen.
And that's super powerful.
We never had that in a population level before.
Another example I can throw out really quickly is most parents around the world do not have
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access to this information of why their engagement with their child matters, why responding to
their baby's cues matters so much.
They don't have access to this information.
So at UNICEF, we launched early moments matter.
It's now the largest global campaign.
The essence of early moments matter is that babies brains are built and they need the
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active ingredients.
They need eat, play, love.
They need care, they need protection.
And we were actually through the early moments matter, we were able to reach over 2 billion
people with these messages.
I loved hearing those examples, Pia, with the UNICEF program and those early moments.
I can give an example locally here in Seattle.
I'm involved with a program called PEPPS, Programs for Early Parent Support.
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And the concept here is that the first thousand days of a baby's life are the most important.
And yet many families, many parents feel isolated or have all these other negative experiences.
So this program tries to connect families with other families, creates kind of a small
community learning group for parents where they get together, maybe a group of 10 to
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12 families in different settings, partnering with different agencies to really provide
access to all kinds of families.
Another point that I thought was important, one of these toxic stress factors is also
about the racism and community violence that families and children experience.
And one of the things in my work that we've found is that as adults in children's lives,
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we have an opportunity to choose materials for children, whether they're books, whether
they're toys that provide both mirrors and windows for children.
This really helps them build their social, positive social identity development, which
happens to begin at birth.
And I like this metaphor of mirrors and windows, meaning we want to expose children with materials,
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with experiences that reflect who they are, that help them feel good about their identity.
And at the same time, you want opportunities to provide materials, books that may provide
windows for children and families to see people that are different than them.
I also had something that might be worth thinking about.
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We have been collecting data from communities that we work with, and most of these are very
impoverished communities, about child development.
We're checking development of children over a one-year period.
So measurements of the stress exposure of the parents and the children, poverty level,
education level, as well as videotaping them with their parents and scoring parent-child
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interactions.
And a really interesting finding is that parent-child interactions can be very strong no matter
how much family stress is experienced.
So you have parents living in really stressed environments, but if they have very good serve
and return interactions, if those are strong from the parents, the child will be doing
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better even in the face of stress.
And just building on Judy's point, one such context we haven't discussed too much is families
who are on the move, migration, refugee status, families who are living through protracted
crisis conflict, and those who are suffering links of humanitarian or climate change related
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emergencies.
And what we're finding when we are working with families with young children in these
areas is that caring for the caregiver is as important as giving messages to the caregiver
about their young child.
And in order for parents to feel on top of the game, in order for them to be able to
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care for children in the manner that's most suitable for their kids, they need caring
as well for their own emotional well-being.
Judy, I'm wondering if you could also weigh in on that question on how to build social
emotional skills in particular and how it relates to regulation.
Happy to.
So in the communities we're working in, there often is a lot of disruption in the family
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setting.
We've put a lot of emphasis on getting adults in the community to think more broadly about
who can provide kids with the skills that they need and with learning environments.
And we think of this as charging stations.
We talk about the fact you need to plug the phone in in order to function.
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Each of us needs to have a support in order to function.
And we start by talking to adults about what is your charging station?
What do you do when you really need to feel better?
This connects very closely to what Pia said earlier about taking care of the parents and
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making sure that the adults that are interacting with children are taken care of also.
But then we expand it to what are the charging stations in your communities that can work
to help children?
That gets people to think much more broadly about the fact that it's not just parents,
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it's not just child care providers, it's not just teachers that have an impact on children
and children's development.
Everybody in the community can play a role.
The matter is getting everybody in the community to realize that they can play an important
role in helping children learn skills.
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Excellent.
Up next, our panelists are going to answer some of your social media questions.
Since our panelists have answered all of my questions, let's move on to some of yours.
So Hailey Ray Pierce from Instagram asks, how do we make sure young children are successful
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in the transition to school?
Preparation is always important, but I also like to say not too early because typically
in the early childhood years, children don't have a good concept of time.
So when we talk about preparing children, we're not talking about months in advance,
but maybe a week in advance, what's going to happen.
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And you want to do it in a very concrete way, maybe visiting the school, reading stories
about going to school.
I also think always bringing something from home to school is also a good strategy that
helps with transitions.
I think that key idea is preparation, but doing it in a concrete way and kind of figuring
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out when to start that preparation, not too early and not too late.
Just adding to that, the model we use at UNICEF is children ready for school, parents ready
for school, but schools ready for children.
So I want to build on what Debbie presented.
Preparation is key and preparation is key on the part of the school as well to be able
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to receive children in.
And in many of the contexts in which we work, we have a lot of different issues linked to
school readiness.
For example, multiculturalism, multilingualism.
So many of our children are for the first time coming into schools where maybe the language
spoken at home is not the language that is being spoken in the classroom or part of the
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curriculum.
So a lot of the focus and emphasis is also on preparing these teachers and the school
administration to be able to receive children to sort of smooth and ease that transition.
I can also comment on this from a much broader perspective.
So Debbie and Pia have talked about the literal transition from living at home in your family
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to starting to go to school.
But what's really important to remember is how well children do in that transition and
in school is going to be very dependent on brain development earlier in life, so throughout
their time growing up.
And so it really behooves parents and those who are interacting with children to try to
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help them build strong social emotional skills, strong problem solving skills, strong image
of themselves so that they are ready to make that transition.
I love the variety of perspectives that we had sort of some really concrete specific
examples and then zoomed out to more global and then thinking about how that all relates
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to brain architecture will be really helpful for our listeners.
So Addy Pay 61 from Instagram asks, I'm a teacher of one to two year olds and in your
opinion, what is a good time frame to expect children of that age to grasp, understand
and remember a concept?
Simple examples, hands are not for hitting, our food goes in your mouth.
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Some days things are a little challenging because it feels like this is what we say
all day.
I bet some listeners will relate to that.
And I'm chuckling here too as I take care of my grandchildren this age.
I'm thinking about that first of all, these first two years of life is what we call the
sensory motor stage and often infants are busy discovering relationships between their
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bodies and the environment and this is actually how they're learning.
When we say don't put things in your mouth yet, that's how they learn through sensory
experiences through their seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, et cetera.
I think we can also through simple words, repetition, signs, gestures, 12 month old
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can understand the concept, what we put in our mouth, food goes in our mouth, toys we
put in the bucket or in the basket.
But instead of saying no toys in the mouth, we'll often say put the toys here.
We'll eat our snack in our mouth, things like that.
So being concrete and yet understanding that this is where they are developmentally, what
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their brain understands.
So it's not like it's a misbehavior, I always say, but a typical behavior.
I would have a different perspective.
That is what we really have to remember is the way brain development happens is the genetic
program tells neurons, brain cells to make connections and what causes those connections
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to be strengthened and become a stable brain circuit is experiences that use the connections.
I get asked many times, how many times do you have to use a connection to increase the
probability of it being permanent and really strong?
And the answer is thousands and thousands of times.
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And so you have a teacher or a parent who's working with one and two year olds who says,
I've told them over and over again about this.
Why do they still not get it?
They really have to have used that part of their brain thousands of times.
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And we need to understand that it really takes a lot of work on the part of the growing brain
to form a strong, stable pathway.
Thanks to our panel for offering that great expertise.
And thank you to our social media followers for submitting some great questions.
Up next, Dr. Jack Chonkop is going to be back to debunk an early childhood myth that you
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may have actually heard.
And we're back with Dr. Jack Chonkop.
We're going to talk about a myth that exists in the early childhood field.
This is a segment I'm particularly excited about because I think there are a lot of myths
out there.
I know you are particularly passionate about and it is that 90% of a child's brain is formed
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by the age of three.
So could you tell us a little bit about that myth and why it is not a correct fact?
Should I start with why this drives neuroscientists insane?
Let me just start with something simple, which is why that's wrong.
To say that 90% of the brain is completed by age three or age four or age five is to
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completely misunderstand the very basic concept of a developing brain.
Is there anybody out there who could make some sense of the idea that a three-year-old
now has 90% of all of the competence and skills and knowledge that you have for the rest of
your life?
From a common sense point of view, that's just ridiculous.
If we're talking about brain development, we're not talking about how big your brain
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is or how much it weighs.
We're talking about its circuitry.
You don't have to be a neuroscientist.
Ask anybody who knows anything about kids, how much of a difference is there between
what a two-month-old can do and what a five-year-old can do?
But here's why it's damaging.
If 90% of your brain development is completed by age three or four, what does that tell
us?
What it tells us is not only to get hysterical about the first three or four years of life
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and drive yourself crazy, but also tells you, okay, you're four, you're five years old now.
You're there.
It's done.
It implies it's too late to do anything.
It implies there's not a whole lot you need to do to promote healthy brain development
afterwards because most of it is over.
And it also implies that at some point you get to 100%, which contradicts exactly what
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you just said earlier, that we're still developing.
Exactly.
It creates a lot of misperceptions and misunderstandings that could affect the way we think about how
much of an impact can adults have on children.
But let me tell you why it's continued.
I was speaking at a conference once and I was on a panel with some people, one of whom
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who got up there and who made this comment about how 90% of the brain, and I said, you
know that's wrong, right?
Do you know what he or she said to me?
That person said, I know you've told me that, but do you see the look on the audience's
face when I say that?
Do you see how jazz they get?
Do you see how much they understand the importance of the early years?
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I know it's wrong, but it's effective.
And perpetuating that myth is terrible, not only because it's wrong, it creates ideas
in people's heads that end up being damaging to how we can help children all through their
lives to be who they can be.
Sally, to your point about it never reaches 100%, this is the other side of the coin.
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People ask this question about how flexible and adaptive is the brain?
We know that resilience also is something that's built over time.
If you have a weak foundation early on because you hadn't had time to develop resilience,
you can develop resilience later and you can get better and things can be better.
So then the question becomes, is it ever too late?
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It's hotter the older you get.
But if there's anyone out there listening to this podcast who's 103 years old, who learned
one thing from this podcast, goes to sleep and tomorrow wakes up and remembers it, a
new connection was made in the brain.
Thanks, Jack.
Up next, how can we take the science of brain architecture and apply it to everyday situations?
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We've learned about the science of brain architecture and its implications and we've learned that
your brain is never fully developed.
We're always learning.
Now we'll leave you with something that you can do today, tomorrow, or even next week
to promote healthy brain architecture.
Do you have to go pick up groceries this week, for example, while your little ones tag along?
Well, when you're searching for ripe apples, ask your child if they can point out all of
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the green ones.
While you're picking out cereal, maybe ask them if they can find all the cereals that
start with C. Simple games like these require children to understand rules, hold those rules
in mind and then follow them.
So while you're shopping for groceries, they're actually building their brain.
I'd like to once again thank our guests, Dr. Judy Cameron, Professor Debbie Lekinen, Dr.
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Pia Britto and Dr. Jack Shankoff.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer, and we'll see you next time.
The Brain Architects is a product of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University
and you can find us at developingchild.harvard.edu where we'll post any resources that were
discussed in this episode.
We're also on Twitter at Harvard Center, Facebook at Center Developing Child and Instagram at
(33:26):
Developing Child Harvard.
Brandi Thomas, Charlie Gibney and Kristen Holmstrand are our producers.
Bridget Sear is our audio editor and our music is Brain Power by Mila from freemusicarchive.org.
The podcast is recorded at PRX Podcast Garage in Alston, Massachusetts.
Welcome to The Brain Architects, a new podcast from the Center on the Developing Child at
(00:05):
Harvard University.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer.
Our center believes that advances in science can provide a powerful source of new ideas
that can improve outcomes for children and families.
We want to help you apply the science of early childhood development to your everyday interactions
with children and take what you're hearing from our experts and panels and apply it to
your everyday work.
(00:27):
So in today's episode, we're going to dive into the concept of brain architecture and
learn a little bit more about the science behind it.
We'll learn why the early years are really important for brain development and think
about how connections are built in the brain and what a strong or weak foundation in the
brain can mean for a child's future health and development.
Here to help us explain brain architecture is Dr. Jack Schonkoff, professor of child
(00:49):
health and development and director of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard
University.
Welcome, Jack.
Hey, Sally.
Good to be here.
There's a lot of questions to dive into today, but can you explain where the idea of brain
architecture came from?
I've heard you use the metaphor of a house before, which I found to be really helpful
really thinking about that foundation that's set in the early years.
(01:10):
Almost 20 years ago, the National Scientific Council on the Developing Child realized that
we needed metaphors to take very complicated science and present it with a phrase that
would capture what it was about and would be remembered.
What came from our early conversations was this very simple fact that brains are built
(01:32):
over time.
We latched onto this concept of brain architecture and any building begins with a strong foundation.
If the foundation is strong, the building will last a long time.
And if the foundation has a crack in it or it's weak, the building may not fall apart,
but you won't be able to kind of build on it very much over time without having to deal
with some of the weaknesses.
(01:53):
Think of building communities where multiple houses are built that are all exactly the
same, but then people move in and they bring their own decoration and their own style to
it and every house that's built with the same basic design ends up looking very different.
The more we got into the architecture metaphor, the more we realized how powerful it is in
(02:16):
terms of understanding this process of brains being built over time.
As I'm listening to you, it's making me think about the nature-nurture argument.
And I know that the current science has a lot to say around that.
Is brain architecture determined solely by our genes?
I love this question.
This whole idea of how much is genetic and how much is the result of experience used
(02:37):
to be a very fierce argument among scientists.
We now know that there's a very strong genetic and a very strong experience influence.
To stick with the architecture metaphor, think of the genetic contribution as the architect's
blueprint before you begin to build a building.
That's the way genetics contributes.
(02:58):
It's why most children sit up at a certain age and walk at a certain age, but how those
skills develop, how they're built, how strong they are, what the design looks like, very
little of that is influenced by genetics.
It's influenced by the world in which kids live, the experiences they have, the environment
of relationships they live in that shape the development of the blueprint for that individual.
(03:24):
Genes determine when circuits get built.
Experience individual differences in people's life experiences determine how those circuits
get built.
And together, they both explain the development of brain architecture.
It's so fascinating.
I know a lot of our listeners are folks who are working directly with kids.
I'm wondering if you could give them some examples of what that building responsive
(03:46):
relationships looks like and also how that actually goes into building brain architecture.
Another great question.
The key feature of what we mean by environment and what we mean by experiences that shape
brain development really come down to the nature of the interaction between very young
children and the adults who care for them.
(04:07):
The brain is wired to expect interaction with other people.
It's not looking for interaction with tablets or mobile phones, mainly because those stimulus
sources are not interactive.
This need for interaction is built into our biology, into our genes.
(04:29):
It comes from eons and eons of evolution.
If there wasn't a reason for it, it wouldn't kind of appear over and over again over eons
from a developmental point of view.
Somebody has to be there engaging and interacting and providing experiences from which you can
learn in order for your brain to build strong circuits.
If the brain is getting bad input, the brain struggles to learn how to deal with it.
(04:52):
If the brain is getting no input, it's an all signal alert that the world is crashing
down on you, not because it's harming you, but because it's ignoring you.
Negative experiences strengthen brain circuits, threatening negative experiences weaken brain
circuits at a time that they're being made.
One last question.
I can't help but ask, given what you just described about how detrimental some of these
(05:16):
things can be to a developing brain.
I'm thinking about listeners who have either experienced this themselves or have had children
that have experienced this and that sense that they might have of, this is a doomed
situation.
My foundation is crumbling and completely weak and from there on I'm not able to continue
to build my house.
I just wondered if you could address that.
I'm really so glad you asked that question, Sally, because there are no perfect brains.
(05:40):
The best parents in the world do a dozen things wrong every day.
There's a lot of science about brain development, but raising healthy, competent children is
much more a bumbling art than it is a precise science.
There's a core concept in biology about adaptation and resilience over time so that it is never
(06:05):
too late to strengthen the brain's capacity to do things.
Anybody who says, past a certain age, there's nothing you can do, is ignorant of what science
has to say.
On the other hand, it's not true that early doesn't matter.
It's a balance.
Having problems early on, perhaps having a weaker foundation, is not a doomsday scenario
(06:28):
at all.
It just means that some things are going to have to be worked on a little bit harder.
They would have been easier if we had gotten it right the first time, but it's not too
late.
The take home messages here are early is always better than later.
Prevention of difficulties is better than trying to remediate difficulties later, but
(06:48):
it is never, ever too late to strengthen capacities.
The brain is always trying to get things right.
If it goes off track, it's always trying to get back on track.
That's the beauty of the science.
It's also the beauty of the magic of human development.
Thank you so much.
So, leave you with that earlier is better, but it's never too late.
(07:08):
Thank you, Sally.
Appreciate it.
When we come back, we'll welcome a few special guests.
Here to discuss the implications of the science of brain architecture, we have Judy Cameron,
PhD.
Judy is a professor of psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh, and the CEO of Working for
(07:32):
Kids, Building Skills, LLC.
Welcome to the podcast, Judy.
Thank you.
I'm really happy to be here.
We also have Debbie Lekinen joining us.
Debbie's an early childhood consultant and former director of the Elliott Pearson Children's
School at Tufts University.
Hi, Debbie.
Hi.
It's an honor to be here.
(07:53):
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Also joining us on the podcast, we have Pia Ribello-Britto, PhD.
She's the global chief and senior advisor, early childhood development program division
at UNICEF.
Welcome, Pia.
It's a pleasure to be on.
Thank you for inviting me.
So, I'd like to start by asking, why is it critical for parents, teachers, and even policymakers
(08:15):
to understand the importance of brain architecture?
It's important that people, all people who interact with children, understand brain architecture
and how brain architecture is made, because experiences play a really strong role.
The brain is genetically programmed to make connections, but whether those connections
(08:37):
stay, become strong, and are permanent and there for the child to use their whole lifeline
depends on having experiences that strengthen them.
So you want parents to strengthen children's brain circuits.
You want teachers to do that.
And at the policy level, you want policymakers to vote for things that will give all children
(09:02):
that opportunity.
To complement, Judy, I want to focus a bit on the policymakers in terms of their understanding
of brain architecture.
Ultimately, as we know, for these positive experiences to occur between children and
their caregivers or parents, these adults in the child's life need time.
They need resources.
(09:23):
They need services.
And all of that enables them then to be able to engage with their children in a meaningful
manner.
Policymakers, employers in the business sector, all of them create the right policies and
enabling environments that then give the parents that time, that space, the resources they
need.
(09:43):
Their understanding of brain architecture and the value it holds and how it occurs is
very important then to enable parents to engage in what they love the most, to engage and
interact with their children.
Great.
So Debbie, I know you've been in the field for quite some time in a variety of roles.
And I think our listeners would like to know what are some specific things that teachers,
(10:06):
parents and caregivers can do to actually help build a healthy brain.
We know that young children learn through everyday play and exploration in safe and
stimulating environments and with relationships with their families, teachers and caregivers.
And young children learn when they're using their whole body and senses, giving opportunity
for young children to explore open-ended materials that can be manipulated and combined in different
(10:33):
ways.
These provide unlimited play and learning opportunities.
We're talking about locks, little figures, animals, toy cars, balls, spoons, buckets,
pans, baskets or recycled materials.
Through all that, the early childhood brains are open to new experiences and children are
(10:55):
testing new theories and changing old theories when they learn something new.
So this kind of constructive play allows experimentation, problem solving, higher order thinking, and
as well as language development and social skills.
And they develop new ideas and schema.
It helps them with language development, cognitive skills, problem solving and taking on other
(11:19):
perspectives and self-regulation.
All of these things are a way that teachers, parents and caregivers can help the brain
develop from very young ages.
I think that what Debbie has said is exactly right.
And one thing parents are always asking is how can we fit this into our everyday life?
(11:40):
So giving them examples of what they can do while they're cooking dinner, what they can
do while they're driving in the car, what they can do when they're just hanging out
with their kids so that they can begin to be creative.
They have ideas that anytime can be a learning time for a child.
(12:03):
Great.
Judy, you were part of a team that created a whole game around the concept of brain architecture.
Could you tell us a little bit more about that game?
Who plays it?
What do you think people actually learn from it?
The brain architecture game, people work in small groups.
They have a task of building a brain.
They roll the dice to get their genetic background and that gives you the structure of the base
(12:28):
of the brain.
And then they draw life experience cards.
And the life experience cards might be a good experience, a really bad stress, which we
would call a toxic stress or a tolerable stress, a stress that can be good for the growth of
the brain or not, that it could be toxic.
(12:50):
And it really depends on how much social support.
A key issue in the game was to get people to understand that social supports are really
important.
They build their brain out of pipe cleaners with the supports being straws.
And they debate with each other, OK, where am I going to use a support?
(13:14):
How tall can we get it?
Do we need a little bit more of a sturdy base?
Yeah, Judy, I facilitated that game a few times and I'm always struck by how many times
I hear the term, that's not fair when people are watching their brains collapse.
That's true.
I've played it with over 12,000 people.
I remember playing it at a legislature at one point where the whole legislature decided
(13:38):
to take an hour out of their day.
And one legislator came in the room and he said, I'm going to build a fantastic brain.
I really care about children and I'm a good architect.
And I said, excellent.
And then his brain collapsed.
And when I asked him what happened, he said, oh, it wasn't my fault.
(14:01):
And I didn't say anything.
I just looked right at him and he said, oh, my gosh, that's what you're trying to teach
us.
It's not children's fault.
I always think that's such an interesting concept that, of course, that's part of what
you're trying to teach throughout these experiences.
Pia, I'm wondering from your perspective if you can share why the concept of brain architecture
(14:23):
is so important for us to consider internationally.
And do you have some examples of how this concept is being used all around the world?
Yeah, this is actually a very seminal concept for us to build on internationally, build
on globally, because the situation of children really calls us to take serious action.
So I'm not sure if you're familiar with, but a few numbers to help you contextualize how
(14:47):
important this is.
The first is that over 250 million children around the world, especially low and middle
income countries, are at risk of not achieving that developmental potential.
And when we look further into that number and understand what's going on, we know that
in 2018, 29 million babies were born into conflict affected areas.
(15:10):
So they're born into these areas where they're exposed to high degrees of toxic stress.
We know that over 300 million children live in areas with toxic air that we know can damage
the developing brain.
So we know there's a lot of risk factors in the environment.
OK, so that's the broad environment.
So what's going on in the daily lives of children?
(15:31):
We find across our work that only about 60% of children receive that early stimulation
and responsive care from their parents and caregivers on a consistent basis.
So really, it's just about over half are receiving that type of care that we know is so integral
for brain architecture.
So the case for why we need to bring this concept globally is really important.
(15:56):
The whole world community aims to achieve certain goals and targets.
And in 2014, to have a very powerful seminar at UNICEF.
Judy was there, Jack was there, the world's leading neuroscientists were there.
And they very clearly laid out a case for what happens when you build this brain architecture
and what happens when it gets derailed.
(16:17):
Now for the first time in history, there was a goal that looked at child development.
There was an indicator and a target that all countries now are accountable for, that they
are supporting children to make this happen.
And that's super powerful.
We never had that in a population level before.
Another example I can throw out really quickly is most parents around the world do not have
(16:41):
access to this information of why their engagement with their child matters, why responding to
their baby's cues matters so much.
They don't have access to this information.
So at UNICEF, we launched early moments matter.
It's now the largest global campaign.
The essence of early moments matter is that babies brains are built and they need the
(17:02):
active ingredients.
They need eat, play, love.
They need care, they need protection.
And we were actually through the early moments matter, we were able to reach over 2 billion
people with these messages.
I loved hearing those examples, Pia, with the UNICEF program and those early moments.
I can give an example locally here in Seattle.
I'm involved with a program called PEPPS, Programs for Early Parent Support.
(17:25):
And the concept here is that the first thousand days of a baby's life are the most important.
And yet many families, many parents feel isolated or have all these other negative experiences.
So this program tries to connect families with other families, creates kind of a small
community learning group for parents where they get together, maybe a group of 10 to
(17:47):
12 families in different settings, partnering with different agencies to really provide
access to all kinds of families.
Another point that I thought was important, one of these toxic stress factors is also
about the racism and community violence that families and children experience.
And one of the things in my work that we've found is that as adults in children's lives,
(18:12):
we have an opportunity to choose materials for children, whether they're books, whether
they're toys that provide both mirrors and windows for children.
This really helps them build their social, positive social identity development, which
happens to begin at birth.
And I like this metaphor of mirrors and windows, meaning we want to expose children with materials,
(18:36):
with experiences that reflect who they are, that help them feel good about their identity.
And at the same time, you want opportunities to provide materials, books that may provide
windows for children and families to see people that are different than them.
I also had something that might be worth thinking about.
(18:57):
We have been collecting data from communities that we work with, and most of these are very
impoverished communities, about child development.
We're checking development of children over a one-year period.
So measurements of the stress exposure of the parents and the children, poverty level,
education level, as well as videotaping them with their parents and scoring parent-child
(19:23):
interactions.
And a really interesting finding is that parent-child interactions can be very strong no matter
how much family stress is experienced.
So you have parents living in really stressed environments, but if they have very good serve
and return interactions, if those are strong from the parents, the child will be doing
(19:49):
better even in the face of stress.
And just building on Judy's point, one such context we haven't discussed too much is families
who are on the move, migration, refugee status, families who are living through protracted
crisis conflict, and those who are suffering links of humanitarian or climate change related
(20:11):
emergencies.
And what we're finding when we are working with families with young children in these
areas is that caring for the caregiver is as important as giving messages to the caregiver
about their young child.
And in order for parents to feel on top of the game, in order for them to be able to
(20:32):
care for children in the manner that's most suitable for their kids, they need caring
as well for their own emotional well-being.
Judy, I'm wondering if you could also weigh in on that question on how to build social
emotional skills in particular and how it relates to regulation.
Happy to.
So in the communities we're working in, there often is a lot of disruption in the family
(20:57):
setting.
We've put a lot of emphasis on getting adults in the community to think more broadly about
who can provide kids with the skills that they need and with learning environments.
And we think of this as charging stations.
We talk about the fact you need to plug the phone in in order to function.
(21:21):
Each of us needs to have a support in order to function.
And we start by talking to adults about what is your charging station?
What do you do when you really need to feel better?
This connects very closely to what Pia said earlier about taking care of the parents and
(21:44):
making sure that the adults that are interacting with children are taken care of also.
But then we expand it to what are the charging stations in your communities that can work
to help children?
That gets people to think much more broadly about the fact that it's not just parents,
(22:08):
it's not just child care providers, it's not just teachers that have an impact on children
and children's development.
Everybody in the community can play a role.
The matter is getting everybody in the community to realize that they can play an important
role in helping children learn skills.
(22:30):
Excellent.
Up next, our panelists are going to answer some of your social media questions.
Since our panelists have answered all of my questions, let's move on to some of yours.
So Hailey Ray Pierce from Instagram asks, how do we make sure young children are successful
(22:50):
in the transition to school?
Preparation is always important, but I also like to say not too early because typically
in the early childhood years, children don't have a good concept of time.
So when we talk about preparing children, we're not talking about months in advance,
but maybe a week in advance, what's going to happen.
(23:12):
And you want to do it in a very concrete way, maybe visiting the school, reading stories
about going to school.
I also think always bringing something from home to school is also a good strategy that
helps with transitions.
I think that key idea is preparation, but doing it in a concrete way and kind of figuring
(23:32):
out when to start that preparation, not too early and not too late.
Just adding to that, the model we use at UNICEF is children ready for school, parents ready
for school, but schools ready for children.
So I want to build on what Debbie presented.
Preparation is key and preparation is key on the part of the school as well to be able
(23:54):
to receive children in.
And in many of the contexts in which we work, we have a lot of different issues linked to
school readiness.
For example, multiculturalism, multilingualism.
So many of our children are for the first time coming into schools where maybe the language
spoken at home is not the language that is being spoken in the classroom or part of the
(24:15):
curriculum.
So a lot of the focus and emphasis is also on preparing these teachers and the school
administration to be able to receive children to sort of smooth and ease that transition.
I can also comment on this from a much broader perspective.
So Debbie and Pia have talked about the literal transition from living at home in your family
(24:40):
to starting to go to school.
But what's really important to remember is how well children do in that transition and
in school is going to be very dependent on brain development earlier in life, so throughout
their time growing up.
And so it really behooves parents and those who are interacting with children to try to
(25:07):
help them build strong social emotional skills, strong problem solving skills, strong image
of themselves so that they are ready to make that transition.
I love the variety of perspectives that we had sort of some really concrete specific
examples and then zoomed out to more global and then thinking about how that all relates
(25:29):
to brain architecture will be really helpful for our listeners.
So Addy Pay 61 from Instagram asks, I'm a teacher of one to two year olds and in your
opinion, what is a good time frame to expect children of that age to grasp, understand
and remember a concept?
Simple examples, hands are not for hitting, our food goes in your mouth.
(25:50):
Some days things are a little challenging because it feels like this is what we say
all day.
I bet some listeners will relate to that.
And I'm chuckling here too as I take care of my grandchildren this age.
I'm thinking about that first of all, these first two years of life is what we call the
sensory motor stage and often infants are busy discovering relationships between their
(26:12):
bodies and the environment and this is actually how they're learning.
When we say don't put things in your mouth yet, that's how they learn through sensory
experiences through their seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, et cetera.
I think we can also through simple words, repetition, signs, gestures, 12 month old
(26:35):
can understand the concept, what we put in our mouth, food goes in our mouth, toys we
put in the bucket or in the basket.
But instead of saying no toys in the mouth, we'll often say put the toys here.
We'll eat our snack in our mouth, things like that.
So being concrete and yet understanding that this is where they are developmentally, what
(26:59):
their brain understands.
So it's not like it's a misbehavior, I always say, but a typical behavior.
I would have a different perspective.
That is what we really have to remember is the way brain development happens is the genetic
program tells neurons, brain cells to make connections and what causes those connections
(27:28):
to be strengthened and become a stable brain circuit is experiences that use the connections.
I get asked many times, how many times do you have to use a connection to increase the
probability of it being permanent and really strong?
And the answer is thousands and thousands of times.
(27:50):
And so you have a teacher or a parent who's working with one and two year olds who says,
I've told them over and over again about this.
Why do they still not get it?
They really have to have used that part of their brain thousands of times.
(28:11):
And we need to understand that it really takes a lot of work on the part of the growing brain
to form a strong, stable pathway.
Thanks to our panel for offering that great expertise.
And thank you to our social media followers for submitting some great questions.
Up next, Dr. Jack Chonkop is going to be back to debunk an early childhood myth that you
(28:33):
may have actually heard.
And we're back with Dr. Jack Chonkop.
We're going to talk about a myth that exists in the early childhood field.
This is a segment I'm particularly excited about because I think there are a lot of myths
out there.
I know you are particularly passionate about and it is that 90% of a child's brain is formed
(28:59):
by the age of three.
So could you tell us a little bit about that myth and why it is not a correct fact?
Should I start with why this drives neuroscientists insane?
Let me just start with something simple, which is why that's wrong.
To say that 90% of the brain is completed by age three or age four or age five is to
(29:20):
completely misunderstand the very basic concept of a developing brain.
Is there anybody out there who could make some sense of the idea that a three-year-old
now has 90% of all of the competence and skills and knowledge that you have for the rest of
your life?
From a common sense point of view, that's just ridiculous.
If we're talking about brain development, we're not talking about how big your brain
(29:42):
is or how much it weighs.
We're talking about its circuitry.
You don't have to be a neuroscientist.
Ask anybody who knows anything about kids, how much of a difference is there between
what a two-month-old can do and what a five-year-old can do?
But here's why it's damaging.
If 90% of your brain development is completed by age three or four, what does that tell
us?
What it tells us is not only to get hysterical about the first three or four years of life
(30:06):
and drive yourself crazy, but also tells you, okay, you're four, you're five years old now.
You're there.
It's done.
It implies it's too late to do anything.
It implies there's not a whole lot you need to do to promote healthy brain development
afterwards because most of it is over.
And it also implies that at some point you get to 100%, which contradicts exactly what
(30:27):
you just said earlier, that we're still developing.
Exactly.
It creates a lot of misperceptions and misunderstandings that could affect the way we think about how
much of an impact can adults have on children.
But let me tell you why it's continued.
I was speaking at a conference once and I was on a panel with some people, one of whom
(30:48):
who got up there and who made this comment about how 90% of the brain, and I said, you
know that's wrong, right?
Do you know what he or she said to me?
That person said, I know you've told me that, but do you see the look on the audience's
face when I say that?
Do you see how jazz they get?
Do you see how much they understand the importance of the early years?
(31:10):
I know it's wrong, but it's effective.
And perpetuating that myth is terrible, not only because it's wrong, it creates ideas
in people's heads that end up being damaging to how we can help children all through their
lives to be who they can be.
Sally, to your point about it never reaches 100%, this is the other side of the coin.
(31:32):
People ask this question about how flexible and adaptive is the brain?
We know that resilience also is something that's built over time.
If you have a weak foundation early on because you hadn't had time to develop resilience,
you can develop resilience later and you can get better and things can be better.
So then the question becomes, is it ever too late?
(31:54):
It's hotter the older you get.
But if there's anyone out there listening to this podcast who's 103 years old, who learned
one thing from this podcast, goes to sleep and tomorrow wakes up and remembers it, a
new connection was made in the brain.
Thanks, Jack.
Up next, how can we take the science of brain architecture and apply it to everyday situations?
(32:21):
We've learned about the science of brain architecture and its implications and we've learned that
your brain is never fully developed.
We're always learning.
Now we'll leave you with something that you can do today, tomorrow, or even next week
to promote healthy brain architecture.
Do you have to go pick up groceries this week, for example, while your little ones tag along?
Well, when you're searching for ripe apples, ask your child if they can point out all of
(32:42):
the green ones.
While you're picking out cereal, maybe ask them if they can find all the cereals that
start with C. Simple games like these require children to understand rules, hold those rules
in mind and then follow them.
So while you're shopping for groceries, they're actually building their brain.
I'd like to once again thank our guests, Dr. Judy Cameron, Professor Debbie Lekinen, Dr.
(33:03):
Pia Britto and Dr. Jack Shankoff.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer, and we'll see you next time.
The Brain Architects is a product of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University
and you can find us at developingchild.harvard.edu where we'll post any resources that were
discussed in this episode.
We're also on Twitter at Harvard Center, Facebook at Center Developing Child and Instagram at
(33:26):
Developing Child Harvard.
Brandi Thomas, Charlie Gibney and Kristen Holmstrand are our producers.
Bridget Sear is our audio editor and our music is Brain Power by Mila from freemusicarchive.org.
The podcast is recorded at PRX Podcast Garage in Alston, Massachusetts.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!