January 29, 2025 • 21 mins
While the coronavirus pandemic has changed many things around the world, it has not stopped child development. In this series of special episodes of The Brain Architects podcast, we aim to share helpful resources and ideas in support of all those who are caring for children while dealing with the impacts of COVID-19.
The first guest of this special series is Center Director Dr. Jack Shonkoff. He and host Sally Pfitzer discuss how to support healthy child development during a pandemic, including the importance of caring for caregivers. They also talk about what we’ve already learned as a result of the coronavirus, and what we hope to continue learning.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to The Brain Architects, a podcast from the Center on the Developing Child at
(00:05):
Harvard University.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzsart.
Since our last podcast episode was released, things have changed quite drastically as a
result of the coronavirus pandemic.
We hope you and your loved ones are safe and well.
During this unprecedented time, we would like to share resources and provide guidance that
you may find helpful.
So we're creating a series of podcast episodes that address COVID-19 and how it relates to
(00:27):
child development.
Our guest today is Center Director, Dr. Jack Sankov.
Jack, thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you, Sally.
It's always a pleasure.
So just so our listeners know, we're recording this on a video call, so the sound quality
will be a little different from when we're in the studio.
We hope these conversations will be useful anyway, especially to those parents, childcare
providers, social workers, teachers, healthcare providers, and any others who are with children
(00:52):
every day during this crisis.
So I'll start with the first one.
Jack, how do you think the pandemic may be affecting very young children, so the infants
and toddlers?
There's been a lot of attention to the need for distance learning for older kids, but
what do you think about what these younger children might need?
That's a really important question, Sally, because this pandemic is different from anything
(01:16):
that any of us had experienced around the world, but basic principles of child development,
the basic concepts of the science that we know don't change.
I would say from my perspective, trying on both the best science we have and the best
common sense is that once again, this is all about relationships.
(01:40):
This is all about the environment of relationships in which young children are developing, in
which they're growing up.
So the rest of the conversation is how do we deal with that in this context?
But it's not a different science.
It's not a different understanding about what children need.
It's just a different world right now.
(02:02):
So I'm sure many of our listeners have heard this term social distancing, but I know that
it's also lately being referred to as the need for physical distancing.
Can you talk a little bit more about the science behind that and what it means for children?
This is the question that I'm most concerned about.
There are two different bodies of science that we're talking about right now.
(02:24):
Normally we talk about the science of early childhood development, science of brain development,
and now we're also dealing with the science of infectious disease.
It's really physical distancing that we're talking about.
Actually, social distancing is exactly what we don't want if social distancing means that
we get further apart in terms of our interactions socially, supposed to physically.
(02:48):
So let me just kind of talk a little bit about each.
So why is physical distancing so important?
Because this is the way we stop the spread of this virus.
This virus is incredibly contagious.
It can jump from one person to another over a six foot span.
Everybody's heard about it, it's six feet away.
And because it's so contagious and spreading all over the world and without a treatment
(03:12):
and without a vaccine, the only real strategy we have to stop the spread of this virus is
to not have people be close enough to each other so they can pass the virus from one
person to another as a population issue, as a community issue.
So yeah, we have to do that.
We have to minimize the physical contact to stop the spread of the virus.
(03:36):
The same time, social connection, hugging, being together is one of the most critical
dimensions of healthy development.
It's at the heart of serve and return interaction between young children and the adults who
care for them.
So that's a core concept for healthy development.
(03:58):
Physical distancing is a core concept for stopping the spread of a virus.
The challenge is how do we reconcile those two?
If we just come together physically, the virus doesn't stop.
If we separate physically and don't find a way to stay connected, then we are creating
an environment that is undermining the healthy development of young children.
(04:18):
I have to say, I want to express tremendous solidarity with the parents of the caregivers,
service providers who are struggling, struggling with this tension between the need to get
connected and the mandate to stay physically apart.
Would you have any recommendations for any family members or caregivers who are experiencing
(04:41):
that tension you're describing?
Absolutely.
So I think the first thing, and this is again a good example of where a basic principle
in development under normal circumstances doesn't change in a crisis.
Development goes on even though the crisis is here.
So one really important thing to remember is that interaction between young children
(05:05):
and the adults who care for them and serve and return responsiveness is not something
that has to happen every minute of every waking hour.
The issue is not all or nothing.
And the extent to which it may be more difficult, not because people don't have opportunities,
but because adults are really struggling with the pressures and the tensions that they're
(05:27):
having, that I think many parents out there, many other caregivers, all of us know that
when we're feeling significant stress, anxiety on ease, and maybe even depression about what's
going on, that you don't have as much energy to be on your best game all the time.
And so in this particular crisis, it's very important for people to understand that it's
(05:52):
okay and it's important for adults to have a little bit of downtime and pay attention
to their own needs.
That's all a matter of balance, right?
So the first thing to think about is what your child needs is a reasonable amount of
attentive interaction with you during the day, but that you also need time for yourself,
you need time to kind of have your needs met.
(06:14):
And that's also very true in non-crisis situations.
In fact, one of the cardinal principles of the science of early childhood development
is that if we want to create the best kind of environment for learning and healthy development
for young children, we have to make sure that the adults who care for them are having their
needs met as well.
(06:35):
People often use the example of the airplane, parents put your own mask on first before
you put your child's mask on.
That's not you're more important than your child.
It's a way of saying you can't take care of your child if your basic needs aren't met.
So this is where social relationships, networks, this is where parents supporting each other
(06:56):
by smartphone, by FaceTime or whatever interactions that parents have with other members of their
extended family, their community, your faith-based organizations, service providers, you have
a relationship with.
All of these are necessary not just to help you meet your child's needs, but to help you
(07:17):
meet your own needs.
And in this particular crisis we're in right now, meeting the needs of the adults who care
for children is the only way to meet the needs of children.
You cannot bypass the needs of the adults.
So I think one of the things that's really obvious about this pandemic is that it's affecting
everyone and every person has some connection or story or thing that they're grappling
(07:42):
with.
I've been thinking a lot about families that are dealing with economic distress and wondering
if the children who are living in those families are more at risk for toxic stress and if we
could think more about how we might instead try to build resilience.
Let's talk a little bit about toxic stress first before talking about being more or less
at risk for it.
Very important to start is that toxic stress does not refer to the cause of the stress.
(08:05):
It refers to the body's physiological response to the stress.
The heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up, your stress hormones are activated.
The difference between toxic stress and what we call tolerable stress is the extent in
which people can manage the stress and feel some sense of safety and control which brings
(08:26):
your stress system back down to baseline.
So for young children, babies, toddlers, preschoolers, obviously their capacity to manage their own
stress is not entirely up to them.
It's really up to the adults who care for them who do two very important things which
make toxic stress tolerable.
(08:47):
One is to provide a sense of safety for the children, a sense of the fact that you are
being taken care of in spite of what's going on around you by the adults who are carrying
feet.
So once again, we come back to the fact that the adults who provide that sense of safety
have to feel that sense of safety themselves.
And none of us, none of us are capable of feeling safe and secure all by ourself all
(09:13):
the time.
It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much education you have, we all need relationships
to help us deal with stress.
Now the other part that turns toxic stress into tolerable stress is helping a child develop
a sense of being able to cope.
So it's not just protecting the child from the stress, but helping to build the skills
(09:36):
that really make for resilience.
It's basically having some sense of regulating your activity and being engaged in things
that make you feel some sense of mastery.
It's why play is so important.
Play is probably the most important thing for those parents out there and anybody who's
involved in early childhood programs already knows this.
(09:59):
Let me tell you from a science point of view that if you're concerned about how a young
child can manage and learn to cope with the stresses going on around the family, create
opportunities to play with your child, create opportunities for your child to play alone
and not necessarily having always to kind of play with an adult, focus on how do I provide
(10:25):
an environment in which my child can play.
Because actually that kind of play is the way the brain builds strong circuits for resilience,
for mastery.
Give your child and yourself a break.
Be comfortable that playing with your child and following your child's lead and engaging
in serving or turn interactions will be tremendously protecting your child's brain and the rest
(10:49):
of the body.
Your question, Sally, was is this even tougher for families who are more economically insecure
and certainly for families whose economic insecurity under normal times is not very stable in these
times right now, the pressures are immensely greater.
(11:09):
And so what we have to do as a society, as human beings, is to recognize that some people
are going to need more help from others to create that sense of safety and security in
their homes while everyone is being isolated to be sure that we're protecting the developing
(11:31):
brain, the physical and mental health for young children.
Why is that important?
It's important because it's the right thing to do.
What kind of human beings would we be if we didn't do that?
It's important also because that's how we are protecting society by making sure that
we are promoting healthy development in everyone so that we all benefit later because we have
(11:56):
a healthier population and a more productive population.
So yes, some people need more support than others, particularly families who are dealing
with housing instability, families who are dealing with food insecurity, those very basic
bare essentials.
There are a lot of families dealing with those kinds of economic insecurities now who have
(12:18):
not dealt with this before.
We absolutely have to pay attention to the needs of families who need extra support,
who don't have the reserves or the resources themselves.
It's an absolute imperative and certainly for the well-being of the children.
Give families security and stability and they will provide a protective and safe environment
(12:40):
for their children.
I've certainly heard you say and I know others have often said that small things can make
a big difference for kids and families.
As I'm listening to you talk, I keep thinking it'd be helpful to get against some concrete
examples of what families, friends, neighbors, communities could do at this time to support
each other just to get us through with the least long-term harm to children's development.
(13:04):
I'm going to start mostly with what adults can do for each other because I really think
that the answers for what in this crisis, what adults can do for children is very basic
and simple.
Provide a sense of safety and security, provide opportunities to play, engage in an interactive
way, serve and return interaction and your child will get through this just fine.
(13:30):
So the concrete things that can be done to protect the development of children come down
to a pretty standard list of things that basically adults need to feel safe and secure.
And I can, I'll mention a few of them, but I think the most important thing for starters
is to say just like when we think about experiences, learning experiences for young children,
(13:55):
there is no one size fits all, right?
So what do adults need to feel a sense of safety and security in the face of this tremendous
anxiety?
Before we go to services, let's start with what people informally provide for themselves.
You have friends, you have neighbors, you have extended family, they may be close by,
(14:16):
they may be far away, kind of ironically in the world we're living right now, it doesn't
matter how far they are away, you can't be that close to them physically.
So you've got to tell a father, you've got a smart father, we can look at people, whatever
that media would be, people need to be able to share with each other what they need, generally
emotionally and socially, and be ready to give to each other what we're each asking
(14:42):
of each other.
And that includes informal arrangements of communities that can include the house of
worship and the community around that, that could be a mother's group, a play group, it
could be whatever.
So that's for stotters.
Some people really have a rich network of relationships to draw on, independent of income
(15:04):
or education.
But then there are people who either don't have a rich network to start with or have
it and it's not meeting the needs and that's where we could provide more assistance through
services.
And this is a great investment, especially now by us as a society to provide a safety
and support and reassurance for families who don't have the informal supports that are
(15:29):
needed.
And asking for that and there should be no hesitance in providing stress reduction, right?
You need ways to reduce your stress, but different things work for different people.
The list of the usual things that work for most people in some way in combination, started
as a simple as a deep breaths, especially if you're feeling like you're getting very
(15:52):
stressed out.
It's not just a mindset thing, it's actually physiologically, it's really, it's helping
to bring your blood pressure down, it's helping to bring your heart rate down.
Deep breath and a slow exhale.
Some people have learned how to do meditation, it's important, that's good.
(16:12):
If you need a few minutes to do that, do it and don't worry about the fact, oh my goodness,
I'm not interacting with my child.
Let your child play while you just go off on this side and relax.
Music dancing could be a great way to reduce stress.
And for some people, stress reduction is just getting on the phone with a good friend and
(16:33):
pouring your heart out.
And at the end saying, thank you for this conversation, I feel so much better.
So stress reduction, finding what works for you, there's no one size fits all.
Get a little bit of space from your child during the day.
Because at the end of the day, it's all about us helping each other.
So the concrete things are not hard to remember and they're not complicated.
(16:57):
There's a lot of heavy duty science behind it, but it can just boil down to a few things.
Take care of yourself, figure out how to reduce the stress you're feeling.
The stress you're feeling is normal.
If it's feeling out of control, then get some help.
Don't be afraid to ask for help.
We all need help.
The bottom line being that it varies from person to person.
(17:21):
This is the time to kind of really be in touch with it.
What works for you?
So Jack, even though we're still in the really early days of this crisis, and I think it's
really important to emphasize that right now we're completely, as you said, just trying
to get through day to day and understand the science behind this.
It can also be tempting to start thinking about if there might be any long term lessons
(17:43):
that we could have in mind as a society that might eventually emerge.
Again, recognizing fully that we're just at the beginning.
Thank you for a really important question.
And for me, the first answer to that, lessons learned, is not so much a new lesson to be
learned, but an old lesson that maybe we'll learn this time in a way that we haven't before.
(18:04):
We are all in this together.
Everybody is affected by what's going on right now.
The extent to which we share responsibility and help each other get through is really
important for all of us.
Right?
In some ways, COVID-19 is an amazing example of we each need everybody to behave responsibly,
(18:27):
to protect everybody else.
This is not just about what's good for you.
Let's just take the physical distancing, right?
If people don't do it, other people are hurt by that.
And if other people don't do it, you are hurt by that.
So if we all share the responsibility, we all benefit.
And if some part of the population isn't different, doesn't care, doesn't pay attention,
(18:53):
or is just focused on its own needs, then we all pay a price for that.
I mean, what great messages and lessons to take out of this crisis for how we should
be under, quote, normal circumstances, right?
Fast forward.
At some point, we'll go back.
And we'll know that everybody with young kids is doing the best they can to raise healthy
(19:17):
kids.
And we all depend on that as a society.
And some people are struggling more because they have less money, they have less education,
they have less economic opportunity.
We all benefit if we all take care of each other and do our job.
And we all suffer and we all pay a price if we don't take care of each other and share
(19:37):
the responsibility.
I'd love that lesson to come out of this pandemic.
Thank you so much, Jack, for taking the time to be with us today.
I really appreciated your concrete advice, and I also especially appreciated the remarks
you made about how this might be affecting different families in a variety of ways.
I know at the center, we're trying to think of ways in which we can support our community.
(19:58):
And some of that, of course, means that we're asking, but it also means that we're trying
to be responsive and put out resources that we hope will be beneficial.
And in that way, we hope whatever is said here will be helpful.
We recognize it might not be beneficial for every person listening, but we hope that today
we've hit on something that might help someone through this time.
We're really looking forward to continuing to hear from some of your friends and colleagues,
(20:19):
Jack, in upcoming episodes of this short podcast series we're doing on COVID-19.
And we're really grateful for your time.
So thanks again.
Thank you, Sally.
It's always a pleasure to have these conversations with you.
So thanks very much.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer.
The Brain Architects is a product of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University.
You can find us at developingchild.harvard.edu.
(20:41):
We're also on Twitter at Harvard Center, Facebook at Center Developing Child, and Instagram
at Developing Child Harvard.
Brandy Thomas is our producer, and Charlie Gibney is our producer and audio editor.
Our music is Brain Power by Mieland from freemusicarchive.org.
This podcast was recorded at my dining room table.
Welcome to The Brain Architects, a podcast from the Center on the Developing Child at
(00:05):
Harvard University.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzsart.
Since our last podcast episode was released, things have changed quite drastically as a
result of the coronavirus pandemic.
We hope you and your loved ones are safe and well.
During this unprecedented time, we would like to share resources and provide guidance that
you may find helpful.
So we're creating a series of podcast episodes that address COVID-19 and how it relates to
(00:27):
child development.
Our guest today is Center Director, Dr. Jack Sankov.
Jack, thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you, Sally.
It's always a pleasure.
So just so our listeners know, we're recording this on a video call, so the sound quality
will be a little different from when we're in the studio.
We hope these conversations will be useful anyway, especially to those parents, childcare
providers, social workers, teachers, healthcare providers, and any others who are with children
(00:52):
every day during this crisis.
So I'll start with the first one.
Jack, how do you think the pandemic may be affecting very young children, so the infants
and toddlers?
There's been a lot of attention to the need for distance learning for older kids, but
what do you think about what these younger children might need?
That's a really important question, Sally, because this pandemic is different from anything
(01:16):
that any of us had experienced around the world, but basic principles of child development,
the basic concepts of the science that we know don't change.
I would say from my perspective, trying on both the best science we have and the best
common sense is that once again, this is all about relationships.
(01:40):
This is all about the environment of relationships in which young children are developing, in
which they're growing up.
So the rest of the conversation is how do we deal with that in this context?
But it's not a different science.
It's not a different understanding about what children need.
It's just a different world right now.
(02:02):
So I'm sure many of our listeners have heard this term social distancing, but I know that
it's also lately being referred to as the need for physical distancing.
Can you talk a little bit more about the science behind that and what it means for children?
This is the question that I'm most concerned about.
There are two different bodies of science that we're talking about right now.
(02:24):
Normally we talk about the science of early childhood development, science of brain development,
and now we're also dealing with the science of infectious disease.
It's really physical distancing that we're talking about.
Actually, social distancing is exactly what we don't want if social distancing means that
we get further apart in terms of our interactions socially, supposed to physically.
(02:48):
So let me just kind of talk a little bit about each.
So why is physical distancing so important?
Because this is the way we stop the spread of this virus.
This virus is incredibly contagious.
It can jump from one person to another over a six foot span.
Everybody's heard about it, it's six feet away.
And because it's so contagious and spreading all over the world and without a treatment
(03:12):
and without a vaccine, the only real strategy we have to stop the spread of this virus is
to not have people be close enough to each other so they can pass the virus from one
person to another as a population issue, as a community issue.
So yeah, we have to do that.
We have to minimize the physical contact to stop the spread of the virus.
(03:36):
The same time, social connection, hugging, being together is one of the most critical
dimensions of healthy development.
It's at the heart of serve and return interaction between young children and the adults who
care for them.
So that's a core concept for healthy development.
(03:58):
Physical distancing is a core concept for stopping the spread of a virus.
The challenge is how do we reconcile those two?
If we just come together physically, the virus doesn't stop.
If we separate physically and don't find a way to stay connected, then we are creating
an environment that is undermining the healthy development of young children.
(04:18):
I have to say, I want to express tremendous solidarity with the parents of the caregivers,
service providers who are struggling, struggling with this tension between the need to get
connected and the mandate to stay physically apart.
Would you have any recommendations for any family members or caregivers who are experiencing
(04:41):
that tension you're describing?
Absolutely.
So I think the first thing, and this is again a good example of where a basic principle
in development under normal circumstances doesn't change in a crisis.
Development goes on even though the crisis is here.
So one really important thing to remember is that interaction between young children
(05:05):
and the adults who care for them and serve and return responsiveness is not something
that has to happen every minute of every waking hour.
The issue is not all or nothing.
And the extent to which it may be more difficult, not because people don't have opportunities,
but because adults are really struggling with the pressures and the tensions that they're
(05:27):
having, that I think many parents out there, many other caregivers, all of us know that
when we're feeling significant stress, anxiety on ease, and maybe even depression about what's
going on, that you don't have as much energy to be on your best game all the time.
And so in this particular crisis, it's very important for people to understand that it's
(05:52):
okay and it's important for adults to have a little bit of downtime and pay attention
to their own needs.
That's all a matter of balance, right?
So the first thing to think about is what your child needs is a reasonable amount of
attentive interaction with you during the day, but that you also need time for yourself,
you need time to kind of have your needs met.
(06:14):
And that's also very true in non-crisis situations.
In fact, one of the cardinal principles of the science of early childhood development
is that if we want to create the best kind of environment for learning and healthy development
for young children, we have to make sure that the adults who care for them are having their
needs met as well.
(06:35):
People often use the example of the airplane, parents put your own mask on first before
you put your child's mask on.
That's not you're more important than your child.
It's a way of saying you can't take care of your child if your basic needs aren't met.
So this is where social relationships, networks, this is where parents supporting each other
(06:56):
by smartphone, by FaceTime or whatever interactions that parents have with other members of their
extended family, their community, your faith-based organizations, service providers, you have
a relationship with.
All of these are necessary not just to help you meet your child's needs, but to help you
(07:17):
meet your own needs.
And in this particular crisis we're in right now, meeting the needs of the adults who care
for children is the only way to meet the needs of children.
You cannot bypass the needs of the adults.
So I think one of the things that's really obvious about this pandemic is that it's affecting
everyone and every person has some connection or story or thing that they're grappling
(07:42):
with.
I've been thinking a lot about families that are dealing with economic distress and wondering
if the children who are living in those families are more at risk for toxic stress and if we
could think more about how we might instead try to build resilience.
Let's talk a little bit about toxic stress first before talking about being more or less
at risk for it.
Very important to start is that toxic stress does not refer to the cause of the stress.
(08:05):
It refers to the body's physiological response to the stress.
The heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up, your stress hormones are activated.
The difference between toxic stress and what we call tolerable stress is the extent in
which people can manage the stress and feel some sense of safety and control which brings
(08:26):
your stress system back down to baseline.
So for young children, babies, toddlers, preschoolers, obviously their capacity to manage their own
stress is not entirely up to them.
It's really up to the adults who care for them who do two very important things which
make toxic stress tolerable.
(08:47):
One is to provide a sense of safety for the children, a sense of the fact that you are
being taken care of in spite of what's going on around you by the adults who are carrying
feet.
So once again, we come back to the fact that the adults who provide that sense of safety
have to feel that sense of safety themselves.
And none of us, none of us are capable of feeling safe and secure all by ourself all
(09:13):
the time.
It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much education you have, we all need relationships
to help us deal with stress.
Now the other part that turns toxic stress into tolerable stress is helping a child develop
a sense of being able to cope.
So it's not just protecting the child from the stress, but helping to build the skills
(09:36):
that really make for resilience.
It's basically having some sense of regulating your activity and being engaged in things
that make you feel some sense of mastery.
It's why play is so important.
Play is probably the most important thing for those parents out there and anybody who's
involved in early childhood programs already knows this.
(09:59):
Let me tell you from a science point of view that if you're concerned about how a young
child can manage and learn to cope with the stresses going on around the family, create
opportunities to play with your child, create opportunities for your child to play alone
and not necessarily having always to kind of play with an adult, focus on how do I provide
(10:25):
an environment in which my child can play.
Because actually that kind of play is the way the brain builds strong circuits for resilience,
for mastery.
Give your child and yourself a break.
Be comfortable that playing with your child and following your child's lead and engaging
in serving or turn interactions will be tremendously protecting your child's brain and the rest
(10:49):
of the body.
Your question, Sally, was is this even tougher for families who are more economically insecure
and certainly for families whose economic insecurity under normal times is not very stable in these
times right now, the pressures are immensely greater.
(11:09):
And so what we have to do as a society, as human beings, is to recognize that some people
are going to need more help from others to create that sense of safety and security in
their homes while everyone is being isolated to be sure that we're protecting the developing
(11:31):
brain, the physical and mental health for young children.
Why is that important?
It's important because it's the right thing to do.
What kind of human beings would we be if we didn't do that?
It's important also because that's how we are protecting society by making sure that
we are promoting healthy development in everyone so that we all benefit later because we have
(11:56):
a healthier population and a more productive population.
So yes, some people need more support than others, particularly families who are dealing
with housing instability, families who are dealing with food insecurity, those very basic
bare essentials.
There are a lot of families dealing with those kinds of economic insecurities now who have
(12:18):
not dealt with this before.
We absolutely have to pay attention to the needs of families who need extra support,
who don't have the reserves or the resources themselves.
It's an absolute imperative and certainly for the well-being of the children.
Give families security and stability and they will provide a protective and safe environment
(12:40):
for their children.
I've certainly heard you say and I know others have often said that small things can make
a big difference for kids and families.
As I'm listening to you talk, I keep thinking it'd be helpful to get against some concrete
examples of what families, friends, neighbors, communities could do at this time to support
each other just to get us through with the least long-term harm to children's development.
(13:04):
I'm going to start mostly with what adults can do for each other because I really think
that the answers for what in this crisis, what adults can do for children is very basic
and simple.
Provide a sense of safety and security, provide opportunities to play, engage in an interactive
way, serve and return interaction and your child will get through this just fine.
(13:30):
So the concrete things that can be done to protect the development of children come down
to a pretty standard list of things that basically adults need to feel safe and secure.
And I can, I'll mention a few of them, but I think the most important thing for starters
is to say just like when we think about experiences, learning experiences for young children,
(13:55):
there is no one size fits all, right?
So what do adults need to feel a sense of safety and security in the face of this tremendous
anxiety?
Before we go to services, let's start with what people informally provide for themselves.
You have friends, you have neighbors, you have extended family, they may be close by,
(14:16):
they may be far away, kind of ironically in the world we're living right now, it doesn't
matter how far they are away, you can't be that close to them physically.
So you've got to tell a father, you've got a smart father, we can look at people, whatever
that media would be, people need to be able to share with each other what they need, generally
emotionally and socially, and be ready to give to each other what we're each asking
(14:42):
of each other.
And that includes informal arrangements of communities that can include the house of
worship and the community around that, that could be a mother's group, a play group, it
could be whatever.
So that's for stotters.
Some people really have a rich network of relationships to draw on, independent of income
(15:04):
or education.
But then there are people who either don't have a rich network to start with or have
it and it's not meeting the needs and that's where we could provide more assistance through
services.
And this is a great investment, especially now by us as a society to provide a safety
and support and reassurance for families who don't have the informal supports that are
(15:29):
needed.
And asking for that and there should be no hesitance in providing stress reduction, right?
You need ways to reduce your stress, but different things work for different people.
The list of the usual things that work for most people in some way in combination, started
as a simple as a deep breaths, especially if you're feeling like you're getting very
(15:52):
stressed out.
It's not just a mindset thing, it's actually physiologically, it's really, it's helping
to bring your blood pressure down, it's helping to bring your heart rate down.
Deep breath and a slow exhale.
Some people have learned how to do meditation, it's important, that's good.
(16:12):
If you need a few minutes to do that, do it and don't worry about the fact, oh my goodness,
I'm not interacting with my child.
Let your child play while you just go off on this side and relax.
Music dancing could be a great way to reduce stress.
And for some people, stress reduction is just getting on the phone with a good friend and
(16:33):
pouring your heart out.
And at the end saying, thank you for this conversation, I feel so much better.
So stress reduction, finding what works for you, there's no one size fits all.
Get a little bit of space from your child during the day.
Because at the end of the day, it's all about us helping each other.
So the concrete things are not hard to remember and they're not complicated.
(16:57):
There's a lot of heavy duty science behind it, but it can just boil down to a few things.
Take care of yourself, figure out how to reduce the stress you're feeling.
The stress you're feeling is normal.
If it's feeling out of control, then get some help.
Don't be afraid to ask for help.
We all need help.
The bottom line being that it varies from person to person.
(17:21):
This is the time to kind of really be in touch with it.
What works for you?
So Jack, even though we're still in the really early days of this crisis, and I think it's
really important to emphasize that right now we're completely, as you said, just trying
to get through day to day and understand the science behind this.
It can also be tempting to start thinking about if there might be any long term lessons
(17:43):
that we could have in mind as a society that might eventually emerge.
Again, recognizing fully that we're just at the beginning.
Thank you for a really important question.
And for me, the first answer to that, lessons learned, is not so much a new lesson to be
learned, but an old lesson that maybe we'll learn this time in a way that we haven't before.
(18:04):
We are all in this together.
Everybody is affected by what's going on right now.
The extent to which we share responsibility and help each other get through is really
important for all of us.
Right?
In some ways, COVID-19 is an amazing example of we each need everybody to behave responsibly,
(18:27):
to protect everybody else.
This is not just about what's good for you.
Let's just take the physical distancing, right?
If people don't do it, other people are hurt by that.
And if other people don't do it, you are hurt by that.
So if we all share the responsibility, we all benefit.
And if some part of the population isn't different, doesn't care, doesn't pay attention,
(18:53):
or is just focused on its own needs, then we all pay a price for that.
I mean, what great messages and lessons to take out of this crisis for how we should
be under, quote, normal circumstances, right?
Fast forward.
At some point, we'll go back.
And we'll know that everybody with young kids is doing the best they can to raise healthy
(19:17):
kids.
And we all depend on that as a society.
And some people are struggling more because they have less money, they have less education,
they have less economic opportunity.
We all benefit if we all take care of each other and do our job.
And we all suffer and we all pay a price if we don't take care of each other and share
(19:37):
the responsibility.
I'd love that lesson to come out of this pandemic.
Thank you so much, Jack, for taking the time to be with us today.
I really appreciated your concrete advice, and I also especially appreciated the remarks
you made about how this might be affecting different families in a variety of ways.
I know at the center, we're trying to think of ways in which we can support our community.
(19:58):
And some of that, of course, means that we're asking, but it also means that we're trying
to be responsive and put out resources that we hope will be beneficial.
And in that way, we hope whatever is said here will be helpful.
We recognize it might not be beneficial for every person listening, but we hope that today
we've hit on something that might help someone through this time.
We're really looking forward to continuing to hear from some of your friends and colleagues,
(20:19):
Jack, in upcoming episodes of this short podcast series we're doing on COVID-19.
And we're really grateful for your time.
So thanks again.
Thank you, Sally.
It's always a pleasure to have these conversations with you.
So thanks very much.
I'm your host, Sally Fitzer.
The Brain Architects is a product of the Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University.
You can find us at developingchild.harvard.edu.
(20:41):
We're also on Twitter at Harvard Center, Facebook at Center Developing Child, and Instagram
at Developing Child Harvard.
Brandy Thomas is our producer, and Charlie Gibney is our producer and audio editor.
Our music is Brain Power by Mieland from freemusicarchive.org.
This podcast was recorded at my dining room table.
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