November 17, 2025 • 60 mins
Teens today live at the intersection of real mental health risks and viral misused language like gaslighting, narcissism, and DID. On this episode of The Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy sat down with children’s therapist Stacy Schaffer to unpack how parents can support mental health without turning every rough patch into a diagnosis. Stacy shares the story behind her new book and the core idea that guides her work: integrate tough histories into practical, present-day tools so kids feel seen, safe, and capable.
We dig into the messy middle of modern childhood—where TikTok trends meet group-chat drama and where grooming, exclusion, and “subtle” cruelty often fly under the bullying radar. Stacy offers concrete steps for delaying social platforms, keeping an open pulse on online connections, and having frank, age-appropriate talks about consent, safety, and the law. We also explore why framing therapy as a gift changes everything, and how to invite teens into the process so they feel respected rather than “sent.”
A big theme is language. Words like trauma, gaslighting, narcissist, and DID carry weight and meaning; when they get stretched to cover discomfort or disagreement, everyone loses clarity. Stacy walks us through what those terms actually mean, when they apply, and how to teach kids a simple 1–10 scale that builds perspective without dismissing pain. We also clarify dissociation versus dissociative identity disorder and offer scripts that keep compassion high while holding responsibility steady: “You’re in charge of all your parts.”
Along the way, we talk about modeling healthy conflict at home, building emotion regulation, and helping kids collect “data” from hard moments they survived. If you’ve wondered how to respond when your teen throws out a buzzword, how to know when it’s time for counseling, or how to keep kids safer online, this conversation delivers calm, clear guidance you can use today.
About Stacy Schaffer
Stacy Schaffer is a Licensed Professional Counselor with over twenty years of experience helping children, teens, and young adults navigate emotional and behavioral challenges. Based in Arvada, Colorado, she is the founder and director of Stacy Schaffer Counseling and specializes in both grief therapy and Synergetic Play Therapy. Her extensive training includes a Master's Degree in Professional Counseling from Ottawa University, a Graduate Diploma in Christian Counseling from Phoenix Seminary, and certifications in Synergetic Play Therapy and EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). She is a proud member of both the National Association of Play Therapy and the Colorado Association for Play Therapy. She’s the author of the book, With Love from a Children's Therapist about lessons she’s learned from her practice.
About Us
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist!
ABOUT US:
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:30):
Hi, Smart Moms and Dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms Podcast brought
to you today by Learning RXBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr.
Amy Moore, and I am here withmy guest, Stacy Schaefer.
And Stacy and I are going totalk about all things kids and
teen mental health today.
Stacy is a licensedprofessional counselor with over
20 years of experience helpingchildren, teens, and young
(00:53):
adults navigate emotional andbehavioral challenges.
She's based in Arvada,Colorado, just right down the
road from me in ColoradoSprings.
And so she specializes in grieftherapy and synergetic play
therapy.
And so we're gonna just diveright in because I'm so excited
to have you here today, Stacy.
(01:15):
Stacy is also the author of abrand new book.
Tell us about your book.
Stacy Schaeffer (01:20):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Um, this I like I brought itjust in case, but um, it is
called With Love from aChildren's Therapist, hashtag
lessons I've learned along theway.
Um, and I've been saying likeit it is part my story of
resilience of coming from atraumatic childhood myself to 20
(01:44):
years of experience of sittingon the other side of the couch
and what I've learned and wouldlike to share with the greater
world.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:52):
So I have to tell you, I've never been so not
prepared for this interview.
And let me tell you what I meanby that.
So normally when I am uhpreparing for an interview, I
read through a guest's book,right?
I just read through it.
Okay, this is what they talkabout.
(02:12):
You know, here are a coupletalking points.
I get an idea of who my guestis.
Um, and then I create anoutline.
And like, you know, there areexperts in this topic.
I really want to make sure Icover it.
So what happened with you isthat I started reading your
book, and you are a magneticwriter.
(02:34):
And I found myself readingevery word.
Oh, like every word.
And so I get to page 150, andI'm like, I'm out of time.
I like I don't have time toread every word through page 230
(02:54):
before this interview, right?
Like I have meetings, I haveclients, I have right, and so I
thought, oh my gosh, we're justgonna get on and talk because
your story is so impactful.
And you know, you talk aboutyour word of the year being
integrate.
And I I don't think that couldbe a more perfect uh description
(03:18):
of how you have taken your ownreally hard experiences and
said, I'm gonna be able to holdspace for every single client I
work with in a way that manytherapists could never imagine
doing.
Because it's one thing to havethe capacity to guide and the
(03:41):
capacity to ask the rightquestions and to give tools to
reframe how we think.
But to sit in a space ofsaying, I see you, I hear you,
although my experience might notbe exactly what yours is, I can
(04:01):
only imagine.
And I like so I was so drawnin.
Uh, I cried.
Um anyway, so I'm so excited tohave you here.
Stacy Schaeffer (04:15):
Wow, like that that was really powerful.
I thought when you're like, I'mnot prepared you're that.
I thought you were gonna say Ididn't get to it yet.
And I'd be like, that's okay.
Um so that's no you were aboutto.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:26):
Well, I would never have meant that.
Like Yeah, okay.
I didn't read your book.
I have no idea what we'retalking about today.
Stacy Schaeffer (04:34):
You know, I would Yeah.
No, I mean that means so muchto me.
Thank you for saying that.
Like it's I'm pretty proud ofit.
I'm pretty proud of my book.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:43):
Yeah, and you know, you said, hey, I'm excited
to hear what you think, butit's a lot.
And yeah, it's a lot.
Um, and I think um it might beoverwhelming for some people,
right?
Um I mean, I'm in the mentalhealth field, so I can
(05:05):
differentiate, but at the sametime felt so moved.
Stacy Schaeffer (05:09):
Thank you for saying that.
Like that that means so much.
Some of the reviews, becauselike those matter so much.
I've like said, you know, saidstuff like that, like it was a
surprise that came from nowhere.
Um, and so I'm like, you know,like every review just makes me
cry.
But one of my one of my friendswas like, I have to take this
(05:31):
really slow, um, because she'slike, I'm just crying a lot.
And so um, and she's like, I'mI promise like I'm reading it,
but I I want to give it time.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:42):
Yeah.
I yeah, that's probably ahealthy approach for some
people, um, especially adultswho have not done their own
inner work.
Um I could see how that mightbe difficult to digest in one
sitting for sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (06:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So I started working with likea social media coach because I'm
supposed to promote and thatthat's not my JM.
I like to write, I don't liketo market.
Um, but she had me create kindof four like five pillars of the
the what I want to say in mymessage.
And the fourth pillar is abouttherapists doing their own work,
(06:25):
um, like how crucial that is,and how you can take your
clients to a more authenticplace doing that.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:33):
So yeah, absolutely.
Because then because you learnhow to reflect on how you can
empathize or reflect on how youcan relate, and even you know,
some self-disclosure can bereally healthy to build trust,
but you don't um you don't getpulled in so that you can't be
(06:59):
fully present, right?
If you haven't, yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (07:03):
Like, and I had to get okay with the fact that
um clients and client, you know,current clients and client
parents were would pick it up.
Um, I had a teenager that waslike 10 minutes into this
session to be.
So I listened to your audiobookand I'm like, oh, okay.
So, you know, what uh whatstood out to you?
And I didn't want to make thewhole session about that, but I
(07:25):
wanted to honor that.
I mean, that's gotta feel alittle weird, like your
therapist, you know, having itall laid out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I wanted to write in a waythat didn't trigger or
traumatize other people, um, andin a way that like protected
me, that it was like, you know,this isn't everything.
(07:46):
You know, my my therapist, thealignment they came up with was
that you can tell people you areabused in every way possible,
including trafficking, but youhave found that the details of
the abuse are not as helpful astalking about your resilience
and your job.
So that's that's what I'm at.
Because I I think, you know,there's I've encountered some
(08:09):
people that that want tosensationalize it, and that's
not what I'm about.
Like you know, like I don'tthink that that's helpful.
Sure, sure.
You know, and so I was like,well, I I know what it's like to
be on both sides of the of thecouch and what I missed.
And so I try to fill in thegaps of what you know younger
(08:31):
Stacy deserved and didn't get.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (08:35):
Um, so when did you release your book?
It came out mid-April.
Okay.
And then I did my ownaudiobook.
Um I flew to Nashville to do myown audiobook, and that came
out in May.
Um, and so yeah, so it's itstill feels like pretty new, but
it was like August, uh April.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:55):
Yeah.
Well, it was interesting whenyou emailed me and you were so
excited about your audio book,and I I always smile because um
I don't listen to books.
I like I I've listened to onebook, and that was back in uh
the early 1990s when youborrowed books on tape from the
(09:15):
library.
Yeah.
Um, and so I was on a road tripand I said, okay, I'm gonna
listen to um a book on tape, andI will never forget what it
was.
It was Bridges of MadisonCounty.
Um, so I listened to this, andI hit downtown Charleston, West
Virginia, like middle ofdowntown in rush hour, 5 p.m.
traffic, and I'm sobbing myeyes out, right?
(09:38):
Because it's at the climax ofthe book.
Sobbing.
I don't know where I am.
I've never been in the middleof downtown Charleston, West
Virginia before.
I can't read my map becausethis is way before cell phones
or anything from work.
And it was like such a bigexperience, uh, a big emotional
experience.
I'm not lost and I can't findmy way.
(10:00):
And I said, I'm never listeningto another book on tape ever
again.
Stacy Schaeffer (10:04):
It's like back when we were like pirates and
had things like printed out fromMapQuest.
And you're just like, you'relike, that's not, that's not
where the turn is.
Yeah.
I too am not an audiobookperson.
Um, but one of my goodtherapist friends, like, she's
like, I don't know if you knowthis, but I'm dyslexic and I
only listen to audiobooks.
And so I'm I'm learning howmany people are, but I am not.
(10:27):
Like, I I think I remember theone I listened to in grad school
to get more indirect hours.
Yeah.
And then it was like BrookeShields, like, postpartum
depression journey.
And I was like, that wasintense.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (10:42):
Well, and I'm the type that I like to put sticky
notes in my book.
I like to find things, I liketo return to it again and again.
And that, like, how do you do?
I mean, I'm sure you canbookmark audiobooks too.
I don't know.
But um, yeah.
So, but yes, my husband listensto them, my boys listen to
them.
I mean, it is a thing, and somepeople love it.
And I know people who are whosay, look, I can get all my
(11:05):
chores done while I'm listeningto a book.
I can't get my chores done ifI'm sitting in a chair reading a
book.
And there's validity to that.
Sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (11:13):
Multitasking.
We like to multitask.
I I feel though that if I wereto do that, I would either not
completely listen or not do thetask well.
Sure.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:24):
Yeah.
Yes, I have an ADHD brain.
So I would be the same way.
In fact, I would just rathernot do the chores.
Sit chair and read the book.
And I think that's okay too.
Stacy Schaeffer (11:33):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sayingthat.
I hope that like you continueto love it and share with people
because it's it's my heart outthere in a book.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay, so one of the thingsthat I gleaned from the book
that I'd love for us to spendsome time on today is just um
how do we support our childrenthrough hard things?
How do we know um when does mychild need therapy?
(12:05):
And what does that conversationlook like?
Right.
So, how are we supportive so umthat it doesn't feel like a
punishment, that it feels like,hey, I'm noticing that you know
you might be struggling here andI would love to get you some
help?
Like, what do thoseconversations sound like?
Um, and what kind ofconversations do more harm?
(12:26):
Um, like what kind ofconversations should we be
avoiding?
Um, how are words matter?
Um I think that we um weencounter parents who just want
us to give them advice that willfix their child rather than
(12:48):
recognizing that this is afamily dynamic, that many times
it's the parents who need uhsome tools.
Stacy Schaeffer (12:56):
Um yeah, no, that's that's really good.
I don't know if you I I'mguessing where you're at in the
book, you got to truth bombs.
Um, the chapter hashtag truthbombs.
It's okay.
Um, but I like I talk in thereabout how we try so hard to be
relatable um to our kids.
(13:17):
And in doing so, sometimesthat's really invalidating.
Yes.
And so I feel like that's thethe the intention is pure and
there to connect.
Um, but I think it's hard.
Um, you know, like I knowyou're I'm in the Colorado area
too, but um, we're not that farfrom the Evergreen um shooting,
(13:38):
you know, and I and I see peoplethat live in Evergreen because
they come down the mountain,it's a small town, and um I you
can support and do everything Ican to show up, but I don't know
what that's like to have yourentire life with lockdown drills
and to be and you don't knowany different.
(14:00):
You don't know any different,yeah.
And so I I am often prettyhonest about like I am really
sorry we have failed you, likeas a nation.
We have and like here's somethings we can do to like to try
to feel safe in that, but helpme understand what it's like to
(14:21):
be you because I lived in aworld where I don't I don't know
if I would have gone to schoolif that was something that was
in the forefront of my mind.
So I think recognizing, I meanthat alone, like you know,
social violence, but like socialmedia, uh, you know, it's it's
a whole different time to be akid and a teenager.
(14:42):
Yeah.
But I think it's important tolike to honor that.
Dr. Amy Moore (14:46):
Absolutely.
Um yeah, so let's talk aboutthat.
I do want to talk about someuh, you know, social media
TikTok uh vocabulary trends umthat are really, I think,
impacting teenage mental health,especially.
And so, you know, words likegaslighting and you're violating
(15:08):
my boundaries, and uh I haveDID and all the things.
In fact, I'm standing in thecheckout line at Sprouts.
And the the girl is ringing meup and she's like, How's your
day been?
And I'm like, Oh, super busy.
Oh, what do you do?
I'm a psychologist.
Oh, yeah, I have DID.
(15:29):
Here we go.
Stacy Schaeffer (15:35):
You're like, didn't I go to the express
checkout?
Dr. Amy Moore (15:39):
I'm like, I'm sorry.
I mean, what did you say in themiddle of the grocery store?
Like this emoji.
You're like, and so I think Isaid something like, wow, that
must be tough.
But like, I was so shocked.
Like so shocked.
Uh but it was, it just rolledoff her tongue.
(16:05):
It was like this super casual.
I'm gonna disclose, you know,my issues because you're a
psychologist.
Stacy Schaeffer (16:14):
Right.
Yeah, and she's like, and I Iknow terms and I know my
diagnosis.
You're like, I don't know whereto start with.
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway.
So I I do want to talk aboutlike how that's just how that
wasn't our world.
Right.
Like we heard those termseither as psych majors in
college, um, or if we wereactually in therapy ourselves,
right?
We didn't just hear those socasually.
(16:45):
And I feel like right now wehave a tendency to pathologize
um the extreme ends of normal umin every way.
And I think that that does ourkids a disservice.
Stacy Schaeffer (16:58):
Um, for sure.
I I definitely didn't know theterm narcissist until I was an
adult, but I I hear that comeout of kids' mouths all the
time, you know, and it's notlike they're necessarily wrong,
but like also let's not diagnosepeople when we're 12.
Just saying.
unknown (17:18):
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (17:19):
You know, I'm like, like, and you know, kids
other kids are allowed to notlike you, and that doesn't make
them a narcissist.
Just throwing that out there.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:29):
Just throwing that out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, it's such a powerful book.
Um, and I just I love the waythat you are able to take um the
trauma that you experiencedagain and again as a child um
and integrate that into yourwork with kids now.
(17:53):
Um, and so it's yeah, it's suchuh, I think I called you a
magnetic writer.
Um you you just hook yourreader from the first sentence
and uh we stay hooked throughthe whole book.
Stacy Schaeffer (18:08):
So well, thank you so much for saying that.
That means so much to me,especially as it's new, you
know, and like starting to getfeedback because I've gotten
great feedback, but I've beensaying, but the reviews, I know
them.
So I'm like, you know, peoplealready like, you know, already
cheerleading me.
And so it's you know, there'struth, but it's hard to know.
(18:30):
And so it really helps that youhad no experience of me and
said those things.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:36):
Um, well, it's the truth.
So yeah.
Um, all right.
So when you were uh planningthis book, like why did you
think that this was such animportant book to put out there?
Stacy Schaeffer (18:49):
Uh those are good questions.
Um there was there's just likea combination of things.
Um one is that I hear so manysimilar things, like along along
the lines of what what kidswish parents knew, um, or trends
that maybe you know peopledidn't know about.
(19:10):
And you we we both know, butI'll just say for you know your
listeners, the limits ofconfidentiality.
You know, if you're gonna hurtyourself, someone else,
someone's hurting you, right?
That's that's when the ruleschange.
But I have found that there'sso much in the gray that would
be really helpful for parents.
And so I tell kids how it worksis that I'll tell your parents
(19:33):
something I said, something wedid, but I'll never quote you.
And so sometimes it's reallytricky if a kid says to me, I
really hate it when my mom slamsdoors but tells me she's fine,
right?
Because like that'sincongruent.
And so I want to say somethingalong the lines of like, how
would you feel about your mom?
(19:54):
And uh having a conversationabout it.
And they're like, no, no, no,no.
She'll say, I'm the worstparent ever I know, and it'll
make it worse.
And so sometimes it feels likeI'm a little trapped um in in
what to do because it doesn'tviolate you know any of those
limits, um, but it'd be realhelpful.
(20:15):
Um and so I like started toaccumulate things like that over
the years, and so that's part,that's that part of the book.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:25):
Yeah, so it gives you a way to take all of the
things that you've heard thatwere impactful in a negative way
for the most part, uh, to kidsor teens.
Um, and it gives you a way tosay, hey, parents, you need to
think about some of this.
(20:45):
Right.
Stacy Schaeffer (20:46):
And I, and just so we're clear, I think that my
was very intentionally, becauseI've thought about this book
for about a decade.
Um, but it's intentional thatit's called With Love, um,
because it is so important to methat parents do not feel
ashamed or less than or anythinglike that.
Because I mean, even listeningto this podcast, but picking up
(21:09):
a book, um, wanting to do betteras a clinician, um, you know,
learning along the lines oflike, what would it take to
bring my kid to counseling?
Anything in that thoughtprocess, that's a lot better
than previous generations, letme tell you what.
And so it's important to methat parents like feel like, no,
(21:30):
I really respect you forwanting to do better.
Like, are you kidding?
My life would have been sodifferent.
Dr. Amy Moore (21:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, and the reality is, and Iactually say this in in my
book, um, that we have to stopasking ourselves, am I a good
parent?
Yes.
Because that just leads to us,you know, ending up in a, you
know, puddle of tears in ourliving room floor.
Um, because that's such asquishy idea, yes, parents.
(22:02):
Right.
Um, and we have to startsaying, like, am I parenting in
a way that's congruent with myvalues and what I value in this
relationship with my child?
And the reality is we're gonnascrew it up.
We do screw it up.
Um, but we do the best that wecan with the information that we
have at the time.
And so what I see in your bookis valuable information, right?
(22:26):
These are things that I mightwant to consider and how they
might impact my child, right?
Like if I don't get a hold ofmy own emotion regulation, then
how can I expect my child to beable to regulate their emotions?
Or what impact, you know, is myown unresolved childhood trauma
going to have on my child?
And so is there something thatI should be doing?
(22:47):
Right.
Like all of this amazinginformation that you've gleaned
from your years and years andyears of experience is
information that we can use justso that maybe we don't screw it
up as badly today.
Stacy Schaeffer (23:00):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, one of my um one of mybest friends that I read about
um a lot, Carolyn, um, who's atherapist, she told me her mom
read the book, and her mom islike, I am gonna be a better
grandparent to these kidsbecause I like learned some.
And it's not like she didn'thave exposure to mental health,
(23:20):
you know, like Carolyn'sbrilliant.
Um, but I think hearing it froma different angle is
beneficial.
And so I wanted to, you know,like incorporate like everything
I know from felt sense to likepersonal experience to like
clinical knowledge in one book.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:38):
Yeah.
Well, you did it.
Yeah.
Um, okay, so let's talk alittle bit about um what is
happening with our kids rightnow?
Like, what is different abouttoday's generation of kids and
teens um from their parents'generation?
And so, like, what do we needto be conscious of?
(24:00):
What do we need to be sensitiveto?
Um, but what do we need to beopen to?
Sure.
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (24:08):
I mean, I think like, you know, the social
media like piece, one couldargue like for or against for
hours, right?
Um, because it that's just theway things work now that you
know we are online.
Um I have seen so many kidsexperience again with the gray
(24:32):
area where it's not bullying,but it's like it's it's
intentional what other kids cando to each other.
And so I I find it really hard.
I mean, I've seen some textthreads with like mean girl
stuff that I I'm are you kiddingme?
Are you kidding me?
Um, sometimes you know, kidswill post if they're trying to
(24:56):
ostracize a kid, a TikTok andleave the kid it's watching out
of it, and so they know theyweren't invited to this thing,
and this kid is not gonna reporton being bullied because
they're allowed to make aTikTok.
But there's just there's somuch nuance to like how you know
humans can hurt one another.
(25:16):
Um, and so and social media ummakes it like an onslaught.
So I I personally think mybelief is to hold out as long as
possible, um, to let your kidshave it.
And that's and it's not sayingthat your kid isn't trustworthy,
it's just that like it's ascary world.
(25:38):
Like, let's kind of avoid thatas long as we can.
So I think that's one componentof social media.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:46):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, we've seen the
dangers of, you know, trying tocurate relationships online,
right?
And it's not always with uhkids their own age.
Stacy Schaeffer (26:02):
Oh yes, yeah.
I've I've definitely seen umthe impact of kids being
groomed.
Um there's this robot Robloxgame called Adopt Me.
And um, you can like tradelittle neon animals or whatever.
Whatever.
Um, and like, and so these kidswho are usually like eight or
(26:25):
nine, oftentimes girls, willlike think they're trading, and
then it ends up being a like agrown adult that is doing having
conversation.
And what I think is so hard isthat you know, it's like how to
like boil like a frog, you know,you put it in the water and you
(26:46):
continue to turn it up, andeventually the the frog's like
boiling, but it didn't realizeit because it was gradual.
I think what is really hard isthat sometimes kids and teens
will get themselves into thesescenarios, whether it's like
talking to, you know, somebodyon Instagram, um, like all the
things, and then they'll gettrapped um in a in a situation
(27:11):
and not know what to do at thatpoint because they're
incriminating themselves.
If they're like, I actuallysent pictures of myself to this
person, and now this person isthreatening to share with
everybody if I don't give themmoney.
Um, and so it's like is it's soso dangerous.
(27:32):
And so I think as much as wecan keep a pulse on who they're
talking to and what's going on,it's just it's the better.
Yeah, it's scary.
It's really scary.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:45):
You wrote something that I did not know.
We live in the same state, butyou said in the state of
Colorado, um, not only is it afelony to have naked photographs
of a minor, but it's a felonyfor the minor to have naked
photographs of themselves ontheir device.
Correct.
Stacy Schaeffer (28:05):
Yeah.
They will, if they get caught,it will it will label them as a
sex offender.
Like, and you're you're 12.
And so yeah, they and you know,the the police like warn the
kids and stuff, and they'relike, you know, kids.
Um, but yeah, that I mean, thatis something that is it's
(28:25):
that's it's just so dangerous.
And kids will tell me, like,well, I have it hidden on a
folder.
I'm like, do you really thinkyou're smarter than like the
tech guy?
Like, come on.
Yeah.
And so I I think that it's soimportant to start those
conversations, you know, whenthey're young, even younger than
we do have those.
You know, uh, we have, I don'tknow, um, in this county in
(28:47):
Jefferson County, they dogrowing and changing the second
semester um of fifth grade, thefinal semester in fifth grade.
And I frankly think that shouldhappen sooner.
Nobody asks me though, but Ithink it should happen sooner
because it's kids are gettingaccess to out there like sooner
(29:08):
and sooner.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:10):
Wow.
And I think that we couldmention that in addition to like
potential sexual predators andgrooming and trafficking and
anything that can start tohappen with those relationships
online, there's also uh thissocial media culture that
(29:32):
influences how teens especiallythink about themselves and think
about their relationships withtheir parents and talk to one
another.
I mean, it influences there'sthis um language that they're
learning on social media, a lotof mental health terminology
(29:53):
that they would not knowotherwise, that then they're
just adopting and normalizing.
Um, and it impacts every singleinteraction that they have.
And so, you know, using wordslike you're gaslighting me or
you've just triggered me oryou're violating my boundaries,
which by the way, is importantto hold strong boundaries.
Please don't get me wrong.
(30:15):
Um, but I think you use theexample that your parent asking
you to take out the trash as oneof your chores is not violating
a boundary.
Stacy Schaeffer (30:26):
Right?
Yeah.
They're like, my my right topeace.
Like, come on.
Like, yeah, no, likeabsolutely.
And I I think uh yeah, I thinkit's a like it's a flipped coin
that it is so amazing that youknow it's in the common
vernacular of kids about likered flags and green flags.
Love that journey, love that.
(30:48):
Um, and I'll have thoseconversations with kids.
Well, you have this friendfallout, like what do you know
now?
You know, those are those aregreat conversations, but I think
sometimes the language can beweaponized.
Um, and say, you know, like I'mnot attacking my dad anymore
because he's a narcissist.
And you're like, I mean, youryour dad's tricky, but like
(31:10):
that's I mean, if you adoptthat, then like every
interaction is gonna bedismissed, and that's not really
fair to him.
Sure.
You know, and so I I feel likethat can be really, really
complicated.
I do love that kids are, I feellike it's saving lives, that
(31:31):
they are open about therapy muchmore than previous generations.
Like I had this mom call me andit's a third grader, and she's
like, My kid talked to a kid onthe playground about you, and is
that the cutest referral you'veever had in your life?
And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I dothink it is.
Yeah, and so it's it's amazing,and they don't understand when
(31:52):
I go over confidentiality in theintake when I say if I see you
in public, you can say hi to me,I can't say hi to you.
And they're like, but like why?
And like you might be with afriend and they might be like,
Who is that?
And why does she wear so muchpurple?
And like, those are questionsyou can't answer because I don't
know, I just like it.
Um, like, and kids like almostlike 100% of the time say, Why
(32:13):
wouldn't I just say you're mytherapist?
And I'm like, you can.
Um, but it just I just thinkit's saving lives that they're
open.
Dr. Amy Moore (32:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so I let's like so let'stalk about that.
Um let's talk about um what isthe difference between normal uh
childhood, teenage angst, andred flags for I think my child
(32:47):
might need some professionalhelp.
Where we we differentiate that?
Or do we not?
Do we say this concerns me?
Therefore, maybe we should talkto a professional.
Stacy Schaeffer (32:58):
Do you guys yeah?
No, I think that's important.
I mean, frankly, I thinkeveryone could benefit.
Um I think that too.
Like I respect so, so much umthe parents who um bring me a
kid who is the sibling of a morechallenging kid.
(33:19):
And they're like, I don't wanttheir needs to be neglected.
And so, like, I'll, you know,I'll say to you know, the
sibling, like, like it soundslike it's hard.
Like, when tell me, tell me whyit's hard being a sibling, and
they're like, we don't get to dofun things because they tantrum
and ruin everything orwhatever.
So I just I think that'sbeautiful that it's like the one
who isn't on fire is gettingsupport.
(33:42):
Um I think that it's so muchabout like a pulse on your kid,
you know, like if you if youcan't really articulate what is
like going on with them, likementally, if it's just if it's
confusing, um, if like thebehavior is like out of sorts
(34:03):
from the kid that you know, Ithink you know, those are also
flags.
Um, and if your your kid isn'tcommunicating, and a lot of
times teenagers don't, right?
Like, I'm fine, but um, but Iwould say, frankly, listen to
your gut.
Um, because you know, if youI've said to a uh parent before,
like I've met with a kid,they're just like we're worried
(34:25):
about him because XYZ is out ofclass from him.
And do I think he could havelike had a good experience in
therapy?
Yeah.
Do I think anything is reallyon fire?
No.
Do I want him to be open totherapy if there is a big need?
(34:45):
Yes.
So I'm like, here's the thing: I don't see anybody who is (34:46):
undefined
forced here.
Like, because that's a waste ofeveryone's time.
Obviously, you don't know whatyou're expecting the first time,
so that's a different thing.
But I I want therapy to beframed as a gift as opposed to
there's something wrong withyou.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:04):
Absolutely.
In fact, I always ask when Imeet with a child or a teen,
whose idea was it?
Oh, yeah, that's for you tocome today.
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (35:13):
Great.
That's a great question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I I always say, so were youdragged here?
This little kid once said, No,I was driven here.
I was like, that's adorable.
But yeah, like that, I mean,that's that's important.
And kids will like confess tome like four sessions in.
I like didn't want to come inthe first time.
(35:33):
I'm like, of course you didn't.
I'm a stranger.
Like, of course you didn't.
Like, I'm like, I'm glad you'rehere now, though.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, how do we begin um to uselanguage that normalizes um
seeing a therapist just like wewould see the pediatrician for a
checkup or the dentist for adental cleaning, right?
How do we encourage parents touse language that doesn't make a
(36:02):
child or teen feel um that theyare experiencing a pathological
issue when maybe it's um anadjustment issue, right?
Like maybe it's, hey, I justwant to make sure that
everything's going okay.
unknown (36:18):
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (36:18):
I mean, I think, I think it is really
validating to acknowledge theworld in which they live.
Um, to be like it, you know,it's it's hard out there.
You know, like when kids saidto me, I don't, I don't know,
I'm depressed.
I'm like, you live in theworld.
Like, you know, it's it's achallenging place to be for all
of us.
(36:39):
Um, and I'm like, we alldeserve support.
So I think the language aroundum that around the word support,
it's like, you know, there'snothing wrong with you, but I
wish I would have had this whenI was like, you know, whatever
age, insert age.
Um, because I always say toparents, like, wouldn't that be
(37:00):
different if you had someone totalk to when you were 10?
They're like, yeah, like what?
Um, because it is part of mysoapbox, if you will, um, that
we say kids are resilient.
Okay, but why are so manyadults in therapy talking about
their childhood?
It's not that they're notresilient, like because they
(37:25):
have to be, but like, do we haveto end the sentence there?
Um, because that that feelsfrustrating to me.
Because I'm like, the kids arefine.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
You're an adult, and like yourevery session is about when
you're seven.
You know, so I I think you'relike, if we have the
conversation around, I want togive you tools now so that
(37:47):
things aren't as hard as maybethey were for me growing up with
your grandma.
You've met grandma, right?
Like, you know, that kind ofthing.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:56):
Yeah, and I think um that statement that kids are
resilient um is old.
Oh, for sure.
I think that, you know, theidea that we just, you know, rub
some dirt in it, uh, or pickourselves up and dust ourselves
off and get back to it isdenying the struggle.
Stacy Schaeffer (38:20):
Oh, for sure.
My, you know, my mom died um in2001.
And so it was like the sameyear, September 11th.
My mom like died before liketexting, right?
Um obviously things would haveevolved, you know, like you
know, had one been alive longer,but my mom would be so confused
about my profession.
Right?
Like, you know, she's a dentalhygienist.
(38:42):
She was like, I know aboutteeth, teeth are important, but
feelings, like, and so I thinkum that there's so many shifts
that are happening in the worldum that that can be really
helpful.
Dr. Amy Moore (38:57):
Yeah, I agree.
Um, so let's talk about theword trauma.
Okay, so I I hear this word uhthrown around uh by teenagers
all the time.
And my concern is that we arenot differentiating between
(39:18):
those things that areuncomfortable and those things
that truly um impact our abilityto function without an
intervention.
And I think it also uminvalidates the experience of
those who really haveexperienced trauma or unsolved
(39:43):
traumatic experiences.
Talk a little bit about thatand the dangers of throwing it
all into the same pot.
Stacy Schaeffer (39:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think because my kids also know
the term PTSD.
Um, and so that you know, Ihear them say, like, I have PTSD
from that math test in secondperiod.
And like, okay, you didn'tenjoy the math test.
Like, let's just start there.
Um, but I think it it's reallyimportant to have like a
(40:12):
scalating system for kids.
Um, like I talk a lot insessions with kids about um on a
scale one to 10, where did thatland?
And so it and like let's bereally honest, be really honest.
And so uh, you know, therebecause like it's the end of the
world, this thing happened.
And so I'm like, on it on ascale, what would land as a 10?
(40:34):
Like, what would be the worst?
Um, and to insert thing, whatis just like minorly irritating?
Like, let's start there.
Um, and so I think to have kidsget perspective, you know, on
um what hard days look likeversus trauma, um, is giving
(40:55):
them better emotional language.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:58):
Yeah, I like that.
That um once they're able tosee that uncomfortable and even
painful experiences happen indegrees.
Sure.
Um, and I think that when wegive language to those
experiences, whether it's wordsor a rating system, right?
Then, you know, at that pointwe're kind of getting out of the
(41:21):
emotion part of our brain andengaging our reasoning skills,
right?
It pulls us right out of theemotion processing when we name
it in some way.
Stacy Schaeffer (41:32):
Yes, and and I don't want kids to invalidate
themselves, like if they'relike, I have this trauma from
math, but then something happensbecause life something is gonna
happen, you know, then likewhere does that put this thing?
Like, is that survivable?
You know, and so I think it'sit's important so that they
don't develop like a false senseof the world and then feel like
(41:56):
unequipped to live in theworld.
Dr. Amy Moore (42:00):
Yeah.
But on the flim side, as aparent, we still want to
validate how uncomfortable thatmath test was.
Stacy Schaeffer (42:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, nobody wants to likeinvalidate you, but perspective
can change the story.
You know, it's like thenarrative that they believe the
worst thing that ever happenedto me, you know, was Mamassa.
Then what happens, you know,when like you get your heart
broken?
Um, or you know, so someoneinvites someone else to home
(42:30):
cut, you know, like all thethings, because then they don't
have a box to put that in.
Like if that was if that was mytrauma, like, dear God, what
was that?
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, like to it'sactually additionally validating
to be like, okay, like I wantto honor this hurts, but it's
not the end of the world.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (42:50):
And I think that for us to um model what it looks
like to work through thoseuncomfortable situations in the
emotional safety of thatrelationship, right?
That that would be our hopewith mom or dad or caregiver.
Um, then you're able to take,okay, how did I, when did I know
(43:14):
I was gonna be okay?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Right.
Dr. Amy Moore (43:17):
How did I reflect on that experience?
How did I handle that one,right?
And be able to apply that tothe next thing that's up to have
data.
Stacy Schaeffer (43:27):
And so, you know, because I like sometimes
there are a lot of kids that Ihave have seen a while.
Parents like want um then justto have like a constant flow of
a same person.
And so, and I have a reallygood memory, which is like real
beneficial, but not when Iremember, you know, the guy that
hurt them a year ago and theywant to get back with that guy.
(43:48):
But um, and so I'll say, okay,that thing that happened, you
have data.
You have data, you survived aheart thing.
Like, so don't tell me youcan't go on.
Don't tell me that.
Like, because I've watched you,and so I think that's like
great as parents too, to whenthey're just like, it's and you
remember XYZ, you made it, andthat was you.
(44:10):
That was all you, and so Ireally try to empower kids to
put that back in them.
They're like, because I camehere, I'm like, no, no, no, no.
You live with you.
You might have a portableStacey in your head, which is
like she probably touched a lot.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:23):
Um, you should get royalties for that.
Stacy Schaeffer (44:28):
She do lists, yeah.
Um, and so I'm like, you know,it's really important that you
like develop like a neuralpathway of understanding like
your own resilience.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:40):
Like, you know, like the the the data's clear.
Yeah.
I mean, we spend so much timetalking about mastering
educational concepts, right?
Mastering math and masteringscience and mastering the
English language.
Um, but we don't spend enoughtime talking about how we are um
(45:01):
helping our kids master emotionregulation and master conflict
resolution and master thosethings that make them more
resilient to stressfulsituations.
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Stacy Schaeffer (45:58):
Oh, yeah, it's another soapbox.
Apparently, I have a lot ofsoapboxes, but it's another
soapbox that like we're teachingkids to, you know, God bless
educators, like love me someeducators, but like the
curriculum that they're taughtto teach on some things, I'm
like, what is it?
Like, can we talk to them abouthow to manage a friend breakup?
(46:18):
Like, can we do that?
And schools do have, you know,social emotional.
Um, but in my opinion, I feellike I don't know, the
Pythagorean theorem.
Like, can if we're can we talkabout that in college if that's
a thing we want to do?
Dr. Amy Moore (46:36):
Yeah, and I think the disconnect is um that
having um a social emotionalcurriculum is not the same thing
as having embedded guidance inreal world social emotional
issues.
Stacy Schaeffer (46:50):
Yes, snapping, yes.
Like exactly, like I feel likethat there's just so many gaps
um in there.
Sometimes I'll say to kids,like, do you know this concept?
Do you know this thing?
And they're like, no, because Inever want to repeat something
there, you know, because youknow, keep seeing teenagers with
their eyeballs roll in the backof their head, like to prevent
that as much as possible.
(47:11):
And so um, but like, yeah, likesome some concepts of like I
just keep thinking of ways tomanage conflict.
Um, like that that'schallenging, they don't know
what to do.
Like one kid told me there'ssix fights at school, like
today.
I'm like, what?
I mean, that's never gonna goaway because kids, but I just I
(47:33):
wish that those kids maybe hadmore tools.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:36):
Absolutely.
And I also wonder, um, well,first of all, I I think that we
have a problem as a society ofnot um responding to differences
in opinion in a healthy way.
Right?
We saw that two weeks ago umwith Charlie Kirk.
(48:00):
Um, but I think um we have tomodel that at home, right?
Like we see all this conflictin schools, we see all this
conflict in culture and insociety.
And if we're not modeling atour dinner table, you know, what
it looks like to have aconversation about something
(48:21):
that we might not agree with ourkids about or that our kids
might not agree with us about,but being willing to share uh
why we think what we think andwhy we believe what we believe
in a loving, respectful way, Iwould think that would begin to
translate to those conversationsoutside of the home.
But we have to be brave athome.
Stacy Schaeffer (48:42):
Oh, yeah, I mean, definitely for sure.
I know I was raised in a homewhere uh the silent treatment
was used as a weapon.
Um, and so like I I find myselfsometimes like like wanting to
shut down, but like havingenough tools to not.
And so, yeah, and like you, weall know, every single one of
(49:02):
your listeners knows that kidsare watching and they're
bringing attention.
And so when they say thingslike, yeah, my mom got into this
fight with someone on Facebook,like about Charlie Kirk, you
know, like that's that sendingsome kind of message that that's
a way to handle it.
And that's just probably notthe best.
(49:24):
So I'm like, um, I'm like, arethe grown-ups around you all
fighting?
And they're like, all of themat the I can't even have a
conversation.
And so that's hard.
That's really hard for a kidbecause they're they're
observing that and they're like,well, maybe I don't want to
bring anything up because Idon't want to be part of that.
Dr. Amy Moore (49:42):
Right.
Right.
But you're also basicallyendorsing that way to handle
different resolution when thatis how you behave as a parent.
Stacy Schaeffer (49:52):
For sure.
Absolutely, for sure.
And so it's like, there'sthere's a better way.
You're like, and maybe theadults will learn a better way
one day.
You think?
No, maybe.
I mean, the kids of today, whenthey become adults, have rules.
So, I mean, that's good.
Dr. Amy Moore (50:10):
Yeah.
All right, I want to talk aboutthe word gaslighting because I
hear it again and again andagain.
He's gaslighting me, hegaslighted me.
It's all gaslighting.
Uh, I think that that term,which has validity, uh, has uh
gone viral in a way that againit's being equated with he
(50:34):
disagrees with me or he's seeingit differently.
For sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (50:39):
Yeah, I've said to kids before, help me
understand what you think thatmeans.
Um, they're like, oh, well,when doing the thing, you know?
And so I'm like, well, here'slike how I see that term.
You know, I wonder if like thatchecks the boxes or if it's
just possible that we just hadsome kind of disagreement and we
(51:02):
don't want to use that term.
I'm like, because I'll tellkids you don't want to take the
power away from words when infact that actually happens.
You know, it's a little boythat cried wolf.
Yeah.
So it's really important thatwe're using terms correctly.
Um, I'm like, you can think andfeel whatever you want.
I'm just letting you know thatif that were to happen in a
(51:26):
different way in the future, itmight be confusing how to label
it.
Dr. Amy Moore (51:30):
So for our listeners, uh clarify for
parents what gaslighting really.
Stacy Schaeffer (51:38):
Yeah.
They're just like, yeah, likeyou know, so and so, whatever.
They're like, okay, unpack thata little bit more for me.
And then I don't know, I don'tknow.
And so I think in response tothat, I'd be like, well, here's
kind of how I see it, like a anexample from your own life, um,
example from media, whatever,um, that you're like, this is
(51:58):
how I find that term to apply.
So I'm not putting you on thespot asking you to prove it.
I'm just saying I want you tohave as much information as
possible so you can make aninformed decision about how you
feel about the people in yourlife.
Dr. Amy Moore (52:14):
Yeah, because true gaslighting is intentional,
right?
It's it's this intentionalpower play where someone makes
you think or feel like yourexperience of something didn't
happen.
Correct.
Stacy Schaeffer (52:31):
I mean, you know, and I think I think it's
important that we mention youcannot like people.
You're probably not.
I was a when I was an adult iswhen I learned that like not
everybody is supposed to likeyou.
Like I thought that it was myjob to win everyone over.
Um, and so I think that it'simportant to say to kids, like,
(52:55):
I mean, it's important to bekind to everyone, right?
We know that, but like you'rethere's there'll be people in
your journey that you won'tlike, but it doesn't mean we
should diagnose them.
They're allowed to, and you'reallowed to.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (53:11):
Right.
And and there is this a lot,there is a lot of this uh
unprofessional uh diagnostichappening, stuff happening,
right?
Like where he's a narcissist orhe's gaslighting me, or you
know, he has DID and right,like, or I right.
And so um I think that no, yougo.
Stacy Schaeffer (53:33):
Oh, it just made me think one of my um
friends' kids, I've I'mbasically like an aunt to um
this kids.
I've known them their entirelife.
Um, and they're like lateteens, and said to me once,
yeah, like I I have D I D.
And I'm like, okay, tell me,tell me more about that.
(53:54):
Um and they were like, well,because I saw on TikTok, someone
said that if you lose track oftime, like you look at the clock
and it like you can't accountfor time, like that's how you
know.
And I'm like, okay.
And I'm like, and I feel likethat's a little dangerous.
(54:16):
Um, you know, because thenyou're you're labeling yourself,
you're putting yourself in somekind of category, and you might
make decisions that are in yourbest interest based on that
diagnosis from think talk.
Dr. Amy Moore (54:30):
And tell our listeners what DID is.
Stacy Schaeffer (54:33):
Oh, um, DID stands for dissociative identity
disorder.
Um, used to be called multiplepersonality disorder, but DID is
like it authentic DID is veryrare.
Um, and it is from extremetrauma where a person's brain
has to split um into like kindof different people to hold all
(54:56):
of that trauma.
Um, and currently it's gettingthrown around when kids
sometimes, in some scenarios,maybe don't want to take
accountability for a behavior.
They're like, it was, it was,it was Fred, Fred, I don't know.
Um, and so the the genuinediagnosis is pretty rare, but I
(55:21):
do believe in internal familysystems that we're all made of a
bunch of parts, but that allworks together because we just
kind of show up in differentways, but we're fully in charge
of ourselves at all times.
Dr. Amy Moore (55:33):
And you can dissociate during a difficult
situation without actuallyhaving risk of an identity
disorder.
Stacy Schaeffer (55:43):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
That like and and disociationis um it is a a tool that your
brain gives you um when thecircumstances are too traumatic,
you know, and so but I meanthere's nothing wrong with it,
but like it's the identitydisorder where that's like
everything you are, that'susually not accurate.
Dr. Amy Moore (56:06):
Yeah.
And so let's say um your parentand your child is claiming uh
that they have a DID diagnosisbecause they got grounded for
three weeks and this wastraumatic for them.
Um, what language do yourecommend that parents use to
kind of um soften that idea?
Stacy Schaeffer (56:30):
Right.
I like I would launch back tothe internal family systems
theory, which is the theory thatthere is a self.
Um, and we have like, you know,different like parts of us that
show up, you know, like the areally like angry self, um, but
you're you're still you at alltimes.
(56:51):
So if a kid were like, that wasactually Fred, you're like,
well, you're in charge of Fred.
So like that, sorry to let youknow, the onus is back on you.
Um, and I'm and I'm sorry thatthis part made choices that you
don't agree with.
(57:11):
And so hopefully you cancommunicate with that part so it
doesn't happen again, but youare still in fact responsible.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:19):
I love that advice.
Because then you're not you'renot invalidating the claim,
you're just lowering thetemperature on the claim and
encouraging your child to stilltake responsibility for their
yeah, you're just like theaccountability is still on you
because and like you know, tofurther that conversation to be
like if if Fred commits a crime,guess who's going to juvenile
(57:43):
court?
Stacy Schaeffer (57:44):
That would still be you.
Um and so the theresponsibility is something that
we can't defer.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:53):
Yeah.
True.
Stacey, we are out of time andgo because you have a client.
Would you come back and have aconversation?
Okay.
Stacy Schaeffer (58:03):
You'd say that.
Dr. Amy Moore (58:04):
Okay, good.
Because I think we could talkfor hours.
And so um okay, so I would loveit uh if we could just continue
talking.
I think this, I think uh, youknow, teen mental health,
especially is such an important,um, easily misunderstood issue
for parents.
Um, and so I I just loved allof the amazing advice that you
(58:24):
gave today and clarification ofterminology uh that our our
teens are being exposed to.
And so we just have so muchmore that we could talk about.
Stacy Schaeffer (58:31):
So I'm excited.
We'll bring you back foranother episode.
Yeah, as the clock was ticking,because I do keep track of time
as self.
Um, I was like, oh, I hope thatthere's gonna be another
conversation.
So prepare for it.
Dr. Amy Moore (58:44):
Absolutely.
Um, Stacy, how can ourlisteners find more from you in
the meantime?
Stacy Schaeffer (58:49):
Yeah, so I have a website that my publishing
company made for me um calledauthorstacy.com.
So it's Stacy with no E,Schaefer with a C and two F's,
because my name is has a millionways to misspell it.
And so hopefully it'll be insomething you have.
(59:09):
But yeah, um there'sinformation about my book and
there's a contact me uh formlike that you can just like type
in there.
So it's a free to contact me.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:18):
Okay, we'll put all of that in the show notes.
Uh so that listeners with alink to uh get your book on
Amazon and all of that goodstuff.
Stacy Schaeffer (59:25):
Yay, okay so much for having me.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:28):
Thank you so much for being with us today.
This has been a greatconversation.
Stacy Schaeffer (59:31):
Fantastic.
So I'll see you soon.
Yes, you will.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:43):
Listeners, thanks so much for being with us
today.
If you liked our show, comefind us on social media at the
Brainy Moms.
You can find us online attheBrainy Moms.com.
We would love it if you wouldleave us a five star rating and
review on Apple Podcasts.
Um, and you can find more aboutour sponsor at learningrx.com.
So, look, we hope that you feela little smarter after spending
(01:00:06):
this hour with us.
And we're going to catch younext time.
Hi, Smart Moms and Dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms Podcast brought
to you today by Learning RXBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr.
Amy Moore, and I am here withmy guest, Stacy Schaefer.
And Stacy and I are going totalk about all things kids and
teen mental health today.
Stacy is a licensedprofessional counselor with over
20 years of experience helpingchildren, teens, and young
(00:53):
adults navigate emotional andbehavioral challenges.
She's based in Arvada,Colorado, just right down the
road from me in ColoradoSprings.
And so she specializes in grieftherapy and synergetic play
therapy.
And so we're gonna just diveright in because I'm so excited
to have you here today, Stacy.
(01:15):
Stacy is also the author of abrand new book.
Tell us about your book.
Stacy Schaeffer (01:20):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Um, this I like I brought itjust in case, but um, it is
called With Love from aChildren's Therapist, hashtag
lessons I've learned along theway.
Um, and I've been saying likeit it is part my story of
resilience of coming from atraumatic childhood myself to 20
(01:44):
years of experience of sittingon the other side of the couch
and what I've learned and wouldlike to share with the greater
world.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:52):
So I have to tell you, I've never been so not
prepared for this interview.
And let me tell you what I meanby that.
So normally when I am uhpreparing for an interview, I
read through a guest's book,right?
I just read through it.
Okay, this is what they talkabout.
(02:12):
You know, here are a coupletalking points.
I get an idea of who my guestis.
Um, and then I create anoutline.
And like, you know, there areexperts in this topic.
I really want to make sure Icover it.
So what happened with you isthat I started reading your
book, and you are a magneticwriter.
(02:34):
And I found myself readingevery word.
Oh, like every word.
And so I get to page 150, andI'm like, I'm out of time.
I like I don't have time toread every word through page 230
(02:54):
before this interview, right?
Like I have meetings, I haveclients, I have right, and so I
thought, oh my gosh, we're justgonna get on and talk because
your story is so impactful.
And you know, you talk aboutyour word of the year being
integrate.
And I I don't think that couldbe a more perfect uh description
(03:18):
of how you have taken your ownreally hard experiences and
said, I'm gonna be able to holdspace for every single client I
work with in a way that manytherapists could never imagine
doing.
Because it's one thing to havethe capacity to guide and the
(03:41):
capacity to ask the rightquestions and to give tools to
reframe how we think.
But to sit in a space ofsaying, I see you, I hear you,
although my experience might notbe exactly what yours is, I can
(04:01):
only imagine.
And I like so I was so drawnin.
Uh, I cried.
Um anyway, so I'm so excited tohave you here.
Stacy Schaeffer (04:15):
Wow, like that that was really powerful.
I thought when you're like, I'mnot prepared you're that.
I thought you were gonna say Ididn't get to it yet.
And I'd be like, that's okay.
Um so that's no you were aboutto.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:26):
Well, I would never have meant that.
Like Yeah, okay.
I didn't read your book.
I have no idea what we'retalking about today.
Stacy Schaeffer (04:34):
You know, I would Yeah.
No, I mean that means so muchto me.
Thank you for saying that.
Like it's I'm pretty proud ofit.
I'm pretty proud of my book.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:43):
Yeah, and you know, you said, hey, I'm excited
to hear what you think, butit's a lot.
And yeah, it's a lot.
Um, and I think um it might beoverwhelming for some people,
right?
Um I mean, I'm in the mentalhealth field, so I can
(05:05):
differentiate, but at the sametime felt so moved.
Stacy Schaeffer (05:09):
Thank you for saying that.
Like that that means so much.
Some of the reviews, becauselike those matter so much.
I've like said, you know, saidstuff like that, like it was a
surprise that came from nowhere.
Um, and so I'm like, you know,like every review just makes me
cry.
But one of my one of my friendswas like, I have to take this
(05:31):
really slow, um, because she'slike, I'm just crying a lot.
And so um, and she's like, I'mI promise like I'm reading it,
but I I want to give it time.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:42):
Yeah.
I yeah, that's probably ahealthy approach for some
people, um, especially adultswho have not done their own
inner work.
Um I could see how that mightbe difficult to digest in one
sitting for sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (06:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So I started working with likea social media coach because I'm
supposed to promote and thatthat's not my JM.
I like to write, I don't liketo market.
Um, but she had me create kindof four like five pillars of the
the what I want to say in mymessage.
And the fourth pillar is abouttherapists doing their own work,
(06:25):
um, like how crucial that is,and how you can take your
clients to a more authenticplace doing that.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:33):
So yeah, absolutely.
Because then because you learnhow to reflect on how you can
empathize or reflect on how youcan relate, and even you know,
some self-disclosure can bereally healthy to build trust,
but you don't um you don't getpulled in so that you can't be
(06:59):
fully present, right?
If you haven't, yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (07:03):
Like, and I had to get okay with the fact that
um clients and client, you know,current clients and client
parents were would pick it up.
Um, I had a teenager that waslike 10 minutes into this
session to be.
So I listened to your audiobookand I'm like, oh, okay.
So, you know, what uh whatstood out to you?
And I didn't want to make thewhole session about that, but I
(07:25):
wanted to honor that.
I mean, that's gotta feel alittle weird, like your
therapist, you know, having itall laid out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I wanted to write in a waythat didn't trigger or
traumatize other people, um, andin a way that like protected
me, that it was like, you know,this isn't everything.
(07:46):
You know, my my therapist, thealignment they came up with was
that you can tell people you areabused in every way possible,
including trafficking, but youhave found that the details of
the abuse are not as helpful astalking about your resilience
and your job.
So that's that's what I'm at.
Because I I think, you know,there's I've encountered some
(08:09):
people that that want tosensationalize it, and that's
not what I'm about.
Like you know, like I don'tthink that that's helpful.
Sure, sure.
You know, and so I was like,well, I I know what it's like to
be on both sides of the of thecouch and what I missed.
And so I try to fill in thegaps of what you know younger
(08:31):
Stacy deserved and didn't get.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (08:35):
Um, so when did you release your book?
It came out mid-April.
Okay.
And then I did my ownaudiobook.
Um I flew to Nashville to do myown audiobook, and that came
out in May.
Um, and so yeah, so it's itstill feels like pretty new, but
it was like August, uh April.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:55):
Yeah.
Well, it was interesting whenyou emailed me and you were so
excited about your audio book,and I I always smile because um
I don't listen to books.
I like I I've listened to onebook, and that was back in uh
the early 1990s when youborrowed books on tape from the
(09:15):
library.
Yeah.
Um, and so I was on a road tripand I said, okay, I'm gonna
listen to um a book on tape, andI will never forget what it
was.
It was Bridges of MadisonCounty.
Um, so I listened to this, andI hit downtown Charleston, West
Virginia, like middle ofdowntown in rush hour, 5 p.m.
traffic, and I'm sobbing myeyes out, right?
(09:38):
Because it's at the climax ofthe book.
Sobbing.
I don't know where I am.
I've never been in the middleof downtown Charleston, West
Virginia before.
I can't read my map becausethis is way before cell phones
or anything from work.
And it was like such a bigexperience, uh, a big emotional
experience.
I'm not lost and I can't findmy way.
(10:00):
And I said, I'm never listeningto another book on tape ever
again.
Stacy Schaeffer (10:04):
It's like back when we were like pirates and
had things like printed out fromMapQuest.
And you're just like, you'relike, that's not, that's not
where the turn is.
Yeah.
I too am not an audiobookperson.
Um, but one of my goodtherapist friends, like, she's
like, I don't know if you knowthis, but I'm dyslexic and I
only listen to audiobooks.
And so I'm I'm learning howmany people are, but I am not.
(10:27):
Like, I I think I remember theone I listened to in grad school
to get more indirect hours.
Yeah.
And then it was like BrookeShields, like, postpartum
depression journey.
And I was like, that wasintense.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (10:42):
Well, and I'm the type that I like to put sticky
notes in my book.
I like to find things, I liketo return to it again and again.
And that, like, how do you do?
I mean, I'm sure you canbookmark audiobooks too.
I don't know.
But um, yeah.
So, but yes, my husband listensto them, my boys listen to
them.
I mean, it is a thing, and somepeople love it.
And I know people who are whosay, look, I can get all my
(11:05):
chores done while I'm listeningto a book.
I can't get my chores done ifI'm sitting in a chair reading a
book.
And there's validity to that.
Sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (11:13):
Multitasking.
We like to multitask.
I I feel though that if I wereto do that, I would either not
completely listen or not do thetask well.
Sure.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:24):
Yeah.
Yes, I have an ADHD brain.
So I would be the same way.
In fact, I would just rathernot do the chores.
Sit chair and read the book.
And I think that's okay too.
Stacy Schaeffer (11:33):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sayingthat.
I hope that like you continueto love it and share with people
because it's it's my heart outthere in a book.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay, so one of the thingsthat I gleaned from the book
that I'd love for us to spendsome time on today is just um
how do we support our childrenthrough hard things?
How do we know um when does mychild need therapy?
(12:05):
And what does that conversationlook like?
Right.
So, how are we supportive so umthat it doesn't feel like a
punishment, that it feels like,hey, I'm noticing that you know
you might be struggling here andI would love to get you some
help?
Like, what do thoseconversations sound like?
Um, and what kind ofconversations do more harm?
(12:26):
Um, like what kind ofconversations should we be
avoiding?
Um, how are words matter?
Um I think that we um weencounter parents who just want
us to give them advice that willfix their child rather than
(12:48):
recognizing that this is afamily dynamic, that many times
it's the parents who need uhsome tools.
Stacy Schaeffer (12:56):
Um yeah, no, that's that's really good.
I don't know if you I I'mguessing where you're at in the
book, you got to truth bombs.
Um, the chapter hashtag truthbombs.
It's okay.
Um, but I like I talk in thereabout how we try so hard to be
relatable um to our kids.
(13:17):
And in doing so, sometimesthat's really invalidating.
Yes.
And so I feel like that's thethe the intention is pure and
there to connect.
Um, but I think it's hard.
Um, you know, like I knowyou're I'm in the Colorado area
too, but um, we're not that farfrom the Evergreen um shooting,
(13:38):
you know, and I and I see peoplethat live in Evergreen because
they come down the mountain,it's a small town, and um I you
can support and do everything Ican to show up, but I don't know
what that's like to have yourentire life with lockdown drills
and to be and you don't knowany different.
(14:00):
You don't know any different,yeah.
And so I I am often prettyhonest about like I am really
sorry we have failed you, likeas a nation.
We have and like here's somethings we can do to like to try
to feel safe in that, but helpme understand what it's like to
(14:21):
be you because I lived in aworld where I don't I don't know
if I would have gone to schoolif that was something that was
in the forefront of my mind.
So I think recognizing, I meanthat alone, like you know,
social violence, but like socialmedia, uh, you know, it's it's
a whole different time to be akid and a teenager.
(14:42):
Yeah.
But I think it's important tolike to honor that.
Dr. Amy Moore (14:46):
Absolutely.
Um yeah, so let's talk aboutthat.
I do want to talk about someuh, you know, social media
TikTok uh vocabulary trends umthat are really, I think,
impacting teenage mental health,especially.
And so, you know, words likegaslighting and you're violating
(15:08):
my boundaries, and uh I haveDID and all the things.
In fact, I'm standing in thecheckout line at Sprouts.
And the the girl is ringing meup and she's like, How's your
day been?
And I'm like, Oh, super busy.
Oh, what do you do?
I'm a psychologist.
Oh, yeah, I have DID.
(15:29):
Here we go.
Stacy Schaeffer (15:35):
You're like, didn't I go to the express
checkout?
Dr. Amy Moore (15:39):
I'm like, I'm sorry.
I mean, what did you say in themiddle of the grocery store?
Like this emoji.
You're like, and so I think Isaid something like, wow, that
must be tough.
But like, I was so shocked.
Like so shocked.
Uh but it was, it just rolledoff her tongue.
(16:05):
It was like this super casual.
I'm gonna disclose, you know,my issues because you're a
psychologist.
Stacy Schaeffer (16:14):
Right.
Yeah, and she's like, and I Iknow terms and I know my
diagnosis.
You're like, I don't know whereto start with.
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway.
So I I do want to talk aboutlike how that's just how that
wasn't our world.
Right.
Like we heard those termseither as psych majors in
college, um, or if we wereactually in therapy ourselves,
right?
We didn't just hear those socasually.
(16:45):
And I feel like right now wehave a tendency to pathologize
um the extreme ends of normal umin every way.
And I think that that does ourkids a disservice.
Stacy Schaeffer (16:58):
Um, for sure.
I I definitely didn't know theterm narcissist until I was an
adult, but I I hear that comeout of kids' mouths all the
time, you know, and it's notlike they're necessarily wrong,
but like also let's not diagnosepeople when we're 12.
Just saying.
unknown (17:18):
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (17:19):
You know, I'm like, like, and you know, kids
other kids are allowed to notlike you, and that doesn't make
them a narcissist.
Just throwing that out there.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:29):
Just throwing that out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, it's such a powerful book.
Um, and I just I love the waythat you are able to take um the
trauma that you experiencedagain and again as a child um
and integrate that into yourwork with kids now.
(17:53):
Um, and so it's yeah, it's suchuh, I think I called you a
magnetic writer.
Um you you just hook yourreader from the first sentence
and uh we stay hooked throughthe whole book.
Stacy Schaeffer (18:08):
So well, thank you so much for saying that.
That means so much to me,especially as it's new, you
know, and like starting to getfeedback because I've gotten
great feedback, but I've beensaying, but the reviews, I know
them.
So I'm like, you know, peoplealready like, you know, already
cheerleading me.
And so it's you know, there'struth, but it's hard to know.
(18:30):
And so it really helps that youhad no experience of me and
said those things.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:36):
Um, well, it's the truth.
So yeah.
Um, all right.
So when you were uh planningthis book, like why did you
think that this was such animportant book to put out there?
Stacy Schaeffer (18:49):
Uh those are good questions.
Um there was there's just likea combination of things.
Um one is that I hear so manysimilar things, like along along
the lines of what what kidswish parents knew, um, or trends
that maybe you know peopledidn't know about.
(19:10):
And you we we both know, butI'll just say for you know your
listeners, the limits ofconfidentiality.
You know, if you're gonna hurtyourself, someone else,
someone's hurting you, right?
That's that's when the ruleschange.
But I have found that there'sso much in the gray that would
be really helpful for parents.
And so I tell kids how it worksis that I'll tell your parents
(19:33):
something I said, something wedid, but I'll never quote you.
And so sometimes it's reallytricky if a kid says to me, I
really hate it when my mom slamsdoors but tells me she's fine,
right?
Because like that'sincongruent.
And so I want to say somethingalong the lines of like, how
would you feel about your mom?
(19:54):
And uh having a conversationabout it.
And they're like, no, no, no,no.
She'll say, I'm the worstparent ever I know, and it'll
make it worse.
And so sometimes it feels likeI'm a little trapped um in in
what to do because it doesn'tviolate you know any of those
limits, um, but it'd be realhelpful.
(20:15):
Um and so I like started toaccumulate things like that over
the years, and so that's part,that's that part of the book.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:25):
Yeah, so it gives you a way to take all of the
things that you've heard thatwere impactful in a negative way
for the most part, uh, to kidsor teens.
Um, and it gives you a way tosay, hey, parents, you need to
think about some of this.
(20:45):
Right.
Stacy Schaeffer (20:46):
And I, and just so we're clear, I think that my
was very intentionally, becauseI've thought about this book
for about a decade.
Um, but it's intentional thatit's called With Love, um,
because it is so important to methat parents do not feel
ashamed or less than or anythinglike that.
Because I mean, even listeningto this podcast, but picking up
(21:09):
a book, um, wanting to do betteras a clinician, um, you know,
learning along the lines oflike, what would it take to
bring my kid to counseling?
Anything in that thoughtprocess, that's a lot better
than previous generations, letme tell you what.
And so it's important to methat parents like feel like, no,
(21:30):
I really respect you forwanting to do better.
Like, are you kidding?
My life would have been sodifferent.
Dr. Amy Moore (21:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, and the reality is, and Iactually say this in in my
book, um, that we have to stopasking ourselves, am I a good
parent?
Yes.
Because that just leads to us,you know, ending up in a, you
know, puddle of tears in ourliving room floor.
Um, because that's such asquishy idea, yes, parents.
(22:02):
Right.
Um, and we have to startsaying, like, am I parenting in
a way that's congruent with myvalues and what I value in this
relationship with my child?
And the reality is we're gonnascrew it up.
We do screw it up.
Um, but we do the best that wecan with the information that we
have at the time.
And so what I see in your bookis valuable information, right?
(22:26):
These are things that I mightwant to consider and how they
might impact my child, right?
Like if I don't get a hold ofmy own emotion regulation, then
how can I expect my child to beable to regulate their emotions?
Or what impact, you know, is myown unresolved childhood trauma
going to have on my child?
And so is there something thatI should be doing?
(22:47):
Right.
Like all of this amazinginformation that you've gleaned
from your years and years andyears of experience is
information that we can use justso that maybe we don't screw it
up as badly today.
Stacy Schaeffer (23:00):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, one of my um one of mybest friends that I read about
um a lot, Carolyn, um, who's atherapist, she told me her mom
read the book, and her mom islike, I am gonna be a better
grandparent to these kidsbecause I like learned some.
And it's not like she didn'thave exposure to mental health,
(23:20):
you know, like Carolyn'sbrilliant.
Um, but I think hearing it froma different angle is
beneficial.
And so I wanted to, you know,like incorporate like everything
I know from felt sense to likepersonal experience to like
clinical knowledge in one book.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:38):
Yeah.
Well, you did it.
Yeah.
Um, okay, so let's talk alittle bit about um what is
happening with our kids rightnow?
Like, what is different abouttoday's generation of kids and
teens um from their parents'generation?
And so, like, what do we needto be conscious of?
(24:00):
What do we need to be sensitiveto?
Um, but what do we need to beopen to?
Sure.
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (24:08):
I mean, I think like, you know, the social
media like piece, one couldargue like for or against for
hours, right?
Um, because it that's just theway things work now that you
know we are online.
Um I have seen so many kidsexperience again with the gray
(24:32):
area where it's not bullying,but it's like it's it's
intentional what other kids cando to each other.
And so I I find it really hard.
I mean, I've seen some textthreads with like mean girl
stuff that I I'm are you kiddingme?
Are you kidding me?
Um, sometimes you know, kidswill post if they're trying to
(24:56):
ostracize a kid, a TikTok andleave the kid it's watching out
of it, and so they know theyweren't invited to this thing,
and this kid is not gonna reporton being bullied because
they're allowed to make aTikTok.
But there's just there's somuch nuance to like how you know
humans can hurt one another.
(25:16):
Um, and so and social media ummakes it like an onslaught.
So I I personally think mybelief is to hold out as long as
possible, um, to let your kidshave it.
And that's and it's not sayingthat your kid isn't trustworthy,
it's just that like it's ascary world.
(25:38):
Like, let's kind of avoid thatas long as we can.
So I think that's one componentof social media.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:46):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, we've seen the
dangers of, you know, trying tocurate relationships online,
right?
And it's not always with uhkids their own age.
Stacy Schaeffer (26:02):
Oh yes, yeah.
I've I've definitely seen umthe impact of kids being
groomed.
Um there's this robot Robloxgame called Adopt Me.
And um, you can like tradelittle neon animals or whatever.
Whatever.
Um, and like, and so these kidswho are usually like eight or
(26:25):
nine, oftentimes girls, willlike think they're trading, and
then it ends up being a like agrown adult that is doing having
conversation.
And what I think is so hard isthat you know, it's like how to
like boil like a frog, you know,you put it in the water and you
(26:46):
continue to turn it up, andeventually the the frog's like
boiling, but it didn't realizeit because it was gradual.
I think what is really hard isthat sometimes kids and teens
will get themselves into thesescenarios, whether it's like
talking to, you know, somebodyon Instagram, um, like all the
things, and then they'll gettrapped um in a in a situation
(27:11):
and not know what to do at thatpoint because they're
incriminating themselves.
If they're like, I actuallysent pictures of myself to this
person, and now this person isthreatening to share with
everybody if I don't give themmoney.
Um, and so it's like is it's soso dangerous.
(27:32):
And so I think as much as wecan keep a pulse on who they're
talking to and what's going on,it's just it's the better.
Yeah, it's scary.
It's really scary.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:45):
You wrote something that I did not know.
We live in the same state, butyou said in the state of
Colorado, um, not only is it afelony to have naked photographs
of a minor, but it's a felonyfor the minor to have naked
photographs of themselves ontheir device.
Correct.
Stacy Schaeffer (28:05):
Yeah.
They will, if they get caught,it will it will label them as a
sex offender.
Like, and you're you're 12.
And so yeah, they and you know,the the police like warn the
kids and stuff, and they'relike, you know, kids.
Um, but yeah, that I mean, thatis something that is it's
(28:25):
that's it's just so dangerous.
And kids will tell me, like,well, I have it hidden on a
folder.
I'm like, do you really thinkyou're smarter than like the
tech guy?
Like, come on.
Yeah.
And so I I think that it's soimportant to start those
conversations, you know, whenthey're young, even younger than
we do have those.
You know, uh, we have, I don'tknow, um, in this county in
(28:47):
Jefferson County, they dogrowing and changing the second
semester um of fifth grade, thefinal semester in fifth grade.
And I frankly think that shouldhappen sooner.
Nobody asks me though, but Ithink it should happen sooner
because it's kids are gettingaccess to out there like sooner
(29:08):
and sooner.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:10):
Wow.
And I think that we couldmention that in addition to like
potential sexual predators andgrooming and trafficking and
anything that can start tohappen with those relationships
online, there's also uh thissocial media culture that
(29:32):
influences how teens especiallythink about themselves and think
about their relationships withtheir parents and talk to one
another.
I mean, it influences there'sthis um language that they're
learning on social media, a lotof mental health terminology
(29:53):
that they would not knowotherwise, that then they're
just adopting and normalizing.
Um, and it impacts every singleinteraction that they have.
And so, you know, using wordslike you're gaslighting me or
you've just triggered me oryou're violating my boundaries,
which by the way, is importantto hold strong boundaries.
Please don't get me wrong.
(30:15):
Um, but I think you use theexample that your parent asking
you to take out the trash as oneof your chores is not violating
a boundary.
Stacy Schaeffer (30:26):
Right?
Yeah.
They're like, my my right topeace.
Like, come on.
Like, yeah, no, likeabsolutely.
And I I think uh yeah, I thinkit's a like it's a flipped coin
that it is so amazing that youknow it's in the common
vernacular of kids about likered flags and green flags.
Love that journey, love that.
(30:48):
Um, and I'll have thoseconversations with kids.
Well, you have this friendfallout, like what do you know
now?
You know, those are those aregreat conversations, but I think
sometimes the language can beweaponized.
Um, and say, you know, like I'mnot attacking my dad anymore
because he's a narcissist.
And you're like, I mean, youryour dad's tricky, but like
(31:10):
that's I mean, if you adoptthat, then like every
interaction is gonna bedismissed, and that's not really
fair to him.
Sure.
You know, and so I I feel likethat can be really, really
complicated.
I do love that kids are, I feellike it's saving lives, that
(31:31):
they are open about therapy muchmore than previous generations.
Like I had this mom call me andit's a third grader, and she's
like, My kid talked to a kid onthe playground about you, and is
that the cutest referral you'veever had in your life?
And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I dothink it is.
Yeah, and so it's it's amazing,and they don't understand when
(31:52):
I go over confidentiality in theintake when I say if I see you
in public, you can say hi to me,I can't say hi to you.
And they're like, but like why?
And like you might be with afriend and they might be like,
Who is that?
And why does she wear so muchpurple?
And like, those are questionsyou can't answer because I don't
know, I just like it.
Um, like, and kids like almostlike 100% of the time say, Why
(32:13):
wouldn't I just say you're mytherapist?
And I'm like, you can.
Um, but it just I just thinkit's saving lives that they're
open.
Dr. Amy Moore (32:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so I let's like so let'stalk about that.
Um let's talk about um what isthe difference between normal uh
childhood, teenage angst, andred flags for I think my child
(32:47):
might need some professionalhelp.
Where we we differentiate that?
Or do we not?
Do we say this concerns me?
Therefore, maybe we should talkto a professional.
Stacy Schaeffer (32:58):
Do you guys yeah?
No, I think that's important.
I mean, frankly, I thinkeveryone could benefit.
Um I think that too.
Like I respect so, so much umthe parents who um bring me a
kid who is the sibling of a morechallenging kid.
(33:19):
And they're like, I don't wanttheir needs to be neglected.
And so, like, I'll, you know,I'll say to you know, the
sibling, like, like it soundslike it's hard.
Like, when tell me, tell me whyit's hard being a sibling, and
they're like, we don't get to dofun things because they tantrum
and ruin everything orwhatever.
So I just I think that'sbeautiful that it's like the one
who isn't on fire is gettingsupport.
(33:42):
Um I think that it's so muchabout like a pulse on your kid,
you know, like if you if youcan't really articulate what is
like going on with them, likementally, if it's just if it's
confusing, um, if like thebehavior is like out of sorts
(34:03):
from the kid that you know, Ithink you know, those are also
flags.
Um, and if your your kid isn'tcommunicating, and a lot of
times teenagers don't, right?
Like, I'm fine, but um, but Iwould say, frankly, listen to
your gut.
Um, because you know, if youI've said to a uh parent before,
like I've met with a kid,they're just like we're worried
(34:25):
about him because XYZ is out ofclass from him.
And do I think he could havelike had a good experience in
therapy?
Yeah.
Do I think anything is reallyon fire?
No.
Do I want him to be open totherapy if there is a big need?
(34:45):
Yes.
So I'm like, here's the thing: I don't see anybody who is (34:46):
undefined
forced here.
Like, because that's a waste ofeveryone's time.
Obviously, you don't know whatyou're expecting the first time,
so that's a different thing.
But I I want therapy to beframed as a gift as opposed to
there's something wrong withyou.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:04):
Absolutely.
In fact, I always ask when Imeet with a child or a teen,
whose idea was it?
Oh, yeah, that's for you tocome today.
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (35:13):
Great.
That's a great question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I I always say, so were youdragged here?
This little kid once said, No,I was driven here.
I was like, that's adorable.
But yeah, like that, I mean,that's that's important.
And kids will like confess tome like four sessions in.
I like didn't want to come inthe first time.
(35:33):
I'm like, of course you didn't.
I'm a stranger.
Like, of course you didn't.
Like, I'm like, I'm glad you'rehere now, though.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, how do we begin um to uselanguage that normalizes um
seeing a therapist just like wewould see the pediatrician for a
checkup or the dentist for adental cleaning, right?
How do we encourage parents touse language that doesn't make a
(36:02):
child or teen feel um that theyare experiencing a pathological
issue when maybe it's um anadjustment issue, right?
Like maybe it's, hey, I justwant to make sure that
everything's going okay.
unknown (36:18):
Yeah.
Stacy Schaeffer (36:18):
I mean, I think, I think it is really
validating to acknowledge theworld in which they live.
Um, to be like it, you know,it's it's hard out there.
You know, like when kids saidto me, I don't, I don't know,
I'm depressed.
I'm like, you live in theworld.
Like, you know, it's it's achallenging place to be for all
of us.
(36:39):
Um, and I'm like, we alldeserve support.
So I think the language aroundum that around the word support,
it's like, you know, there'snothing wrong with you, but I
wish I would have had this whenI was like, you know, whatever
age, insert age.
Um, because I always say toparents, like, wouldn't that be
(37:00):
different if you had someone totalk to when you were 10?
They're like, yeah, like what?
Um, because it is part of mysoapbox, if you will, um, that
we say kids are resilient.
Okay, but why are so manyadults in therapy talking about
their childhood?
It's not that they're notresilient, like because they
(37:25):
have to be, but like, do we haveto end the sentence there?
Um, because that that feelsfrustrating to me.
Because I'm like, the kids arefine.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
You're an adult, and like yourevery session is about when
you're seven.
You know, so I I think you'relike, if we have the
conversation around, I want togive you tools now so that
(37:47):
things aren't as hard as maybethey were for me growing up with
your grandma.
You've met grandma, right?
Like, you know, that kind ofthing.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:56):
Yeah, and I think um that statement that kids are
resilient um is old.
Oh, for sure.
I think that, you know, theidea that we just, you know, rub
some dirt in it, uh, or pickourselves up and dust ourselves
off and get back to it isdenying the struggle.
Stacy Schaeffer (38:20):
Oh, for sure.
My, you know, my mom died um in2001.
And so it was like the sameyear, September 11th.
My mom like died before liketexting, right?
Um obviously things would haveevolved, you know, like you
know, had one been alive longer,but my mom would be so confused
about my profession.
Right?
Like, you know, she's a dentalhygienist.
(38:42):
She was like, I know aboutteeth, teeth are important, but
feelings, like, and so I thinkum that there's so many shifts
that are happening in the worldum that that can be really
helpful.
Dr. Amy Moore (38:57):
Yeah, I agree.
Um, so let's talk about theword trauma.
Okay, so I I hear this word uhthrown around uh by teenagers
all the time.
And my concern is that we arenot differentiating between
(39:18):
those things that areuncomfortable and those things
that truly um impact our abilityto function without an
intervention.
And I think it also uminvalidates the experience of
those who really haveexperienced trauma or unsolved
(39:43):
traumatic experiences.
Talk a little bit about thatand the dangers of throwing it
all into the same pot.
Stacy Schaeffer (39:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think because my kids also know
the term PTSD.
Um, and so that you know, Ihear them say, like, I have PTSD
from that math test in secondperiod.
And like, okay, you didn'tenjoy the math test.
Like, let's just start there.
Um, but I think it it's reallyimportant to have like a
(40:12):
scalating system for kids.
Um, like I talk a lot insessions with kids about um on a
scale one to 10, where did thatland?
And so it and like let's bereally honest, be really honest.
And so uh, you know, therebecause like it's the end of the
world, this thing happened.
And so I'm like, on it on ascale, what would land as a 10?
(40:34):
Like, what would be the worst?
Um, and to insert thing, whatis just like minorly irritating?
Like, let's start there.
Um, and so I think to have kidsget perspective, you know, on
um what hard days look likeversus trauma, um, is giving
(40:55):
them better emotional language.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:58):
Yeah, I like that.
That um once they're able tosee that uncomfortable and even
painful experiences happen indegrees.
Sure.
Um, and I think that when wegive language to those
experiences, whether it's wordsor a rating system, right?
Then, you know, at that pointwe're kind of getting out of the
(41:21):
emotion part of our brain andengaging our reasoning skills,
right?
It pulls us right out of theemotion processing when we name
it in some way.
Stacy Schaeffer (41:32):
Yes, and and I don't want kids to invalidate
themselves, like if they'relike, I have this trauma from
math, but then something happensbecause life something is gonna
happen, you know, then likewhere does that put this thing?
Like, is that survivable?
You know, and so I think it'sit's important so that they
don't develop like a false senseof the world and then feel like
(41:56):
unequipped to live in theworld.
Dr. Amy Moore (42:00):
Yeah.
But on the flim side, as aparent, we still want to
validate how uncomfortable thatmath test was.
Stacy Schaeffer (42:10):
Absolutely.
Yeah, nobody wants to likeinvalidate you, but perspective
can change the story.
You know, it's like thenarrative that they believe the
worst thing that ever happenedto me, you know, was Mamassa.
Then what happens, you know,when like you get your heart
broken?
Um, or you know, so someoneinvites someone else to home
(42:30):
cut, you know, like all thethings, because then they don't
have a box to put that in.
Like if that was if that was mytrauma, like, dear God, what
was that?
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, like to it'sactually additionally validating
to be like, okay, like I wantto honor this hurts, but it's
not the end of the world.
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (42:50):
And I think that for us to um model what it looks
like to work through thoseuncomfortable situations in the
emotional safety of thatrelationship, right?
That that would be our hopewith mom or dad or caregiver.
Um, then you're able to take,okay, how did I, when did I know
(43:14):
I was gonna be okay?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Right.
Dr. Amy Moore (43:17):
How did I reflect on that experience?
How did I handle that one,right?
And be able to apply that tothe next thing that's up to have
data.
Stacy Schaeffer (43:27):
And so, you know, because I like sometimes
there are a lot of kids that Ihave have seen a while.
Parents like want um then justto have like a constant flow of
a same person.
And so, and I have a reallygood memory, which is like real
beneficial, but not when Iremember, you know, the guy that
hurt them a year ago and theywant to get back with that guy.
(43:48):
But um, and so I'll say, okay,that thing that happened, you
have data.
You have data, you survived aheart thing.
Like, so don't tell me youcan't go on.
Don't tell me that.
Like, because I've watched you,and so I think that's like
great as parents too, to whenthey're just like, it's and you
remember XYZ, you made it, andthat was you.
(44:10):
That was all you, and so Ireally try to empower kids to
put that back in them.
They're like, because I camehere, I'm like, no, no, no, no.
You live with you.
You might have a portableStacey in your head, which is
like she probably touched a lot.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:23):
Um, you should get royalties for that.
Stacy Schaeffer (44:28):
She do lists, yeah.
Um, and so I'm like, you know,it's really important that you
like develop like a neuralpathway of understanding like
your own resilience.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:40):
Like, you know, like the the the data's clear.
Yeah.
I mean, we spend so much timetalking about mastering
educational concepts, right?
Mastering math and masteringscience and mastering the
English language.
Um, but we don't spend enoughtime talking about how we are um
(45:01):
helping our kids master emotionregulation and master conflict
resolution and master thosethings that make them more
resilient to stressfulsituations.
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Stacy Schaeffer (45:58):
Oh, yeah, it's another soapbox.
Apparently, I have a lot ofsoapboxes, but it's another
soapbox that like we're teachingkids to, you know, God bless
educators, like love me someeducators, but like the
curriculum that they're taughtto teach on some things, I'm
like, what is it?
Like, can we talk to them abouthow to manage a friend breakup?
(46:18):
Like, can we do that?
And schools do have, you know,social emotional.
Um, but in my opinion, I feellike I don't know, the
Pythagorean theorem.
Like, can if we're can we talkabout that in college if that's
a thing we want to do?
Dr. Amy Moore (46:36):
Yeah, and I think the disconnect is um that
having um a social emotionalcurriculum is not the same thing
as having embedded guidance inreal world social emotional
issues.
Stacy Schaeffer (46:50):
Yes, snapping, yes.
Like exactly, like I feel likethat there's just so many gaps
um in there.
Sometimes I'll say to kids,like, do you know this concept?
Do you know this thing?
And they're like, no, because Inever want to repeat something
there, you know, because youknow, keep seeing teenagers with
their eyeballs roll in the backof their head, like to prevent
that as much as possible.
(47:11):
And so um, but like, yeah, likesome some concepts of like I
just keep thinking of ways tomanage conflict.
Um, like that that'schallenging, they don't know
what to do.
Like one kid told me there'ssix fights at school, like
today.
I'm like, what?
I mean, that's never gonna goaway because kids, but I just I
(47:33):
wish that those kids maybe hadmore tools.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:36):
Absolutely.
And I also wonder, um, well,first of all, I I think that we
have a problem as a society ofnot um responding to differences
in opinion in a healthy way.
Right?
We saw that two weeks ago umwith Charlie Kirk.
(48:00):
Um, but I think um we have tomodel that at home, right?
Like we see all this conflictin schools, we see all this
conflict in culture and insociety.
And if we're not modeling atour dinner table, you know, what
it looks like to have aconversation about something
(48:21):
that we might not agree with ourkids about or that our kids
might not agree with us about,but being willing to share uh
why we think what we think andwhy we believe what we believe
in a loving, respectful way, Iwould think that would begin to
translate to those conversationsoutside of the home.
But we have to be brave athome.
Stacy Schaeffer (48:42):
Oh, yeah, I mean, definitely for sure.
I know I was raised in a homewhere uh the silent treatment
was used as a weapon.
Um, and so like I I find myselfsometimes like like wanting to
shut down, but like havingenough tools to not.
And so, yeah, and like you, weall know, every single one of
(49:02):
your listeners knows that kidsare watching and they're
bringing attention.
And so when they say thingslike, yeah, my mom got into this
fight with someone on Facebook,like about Charlie Kirk, you
know, like that's that sendingsome kind of message that that's
a way to handle it.
And that's just probably notthe best.
(49:24):
So I'm like, um, I'm like, arethe grown-ups around you all
fighting?
And they're like, all of themat the I can't even have a
conversation.
And so that's hard.
That's really hard for a kidbecause they're they're
observing that and they're like,well, maybe I don't want to
bring anything up because Idon't want to be part of that.
Dr. Amy Moore (49:42):
Right.
Right.
But you're also basicallyendorsing that way to handle
different resolution when thatis how you behave as a parent.
Stacy Schaeffer (49:52):
For sure.
Absolutely, for sure.
And so it's like, there'sthere's a better way.
You're like, and maybe theadults will learn a better way
one day.
You think?
No, maybe.
I mean, the kids of today, whenthey become adults, have rules.
So, I mean, that's good.
Dr. Amy Moore (50:10):
Yeah.
All right, I want to talk aboutthe word gaslighting because I
hear it again and again andagain.
He's gaslighting me, hegaslighted me.
It's all gaslighting.
Uh, I think that that term,which has validity, uh, has uh
gone viral in a way that againit's being equated with he
(50:34):
disagrees with me or he's seeingit differently.
For sure.
Stacy Schaeffer (50:39):
Yeah, I've said to kids before, help me
understand what you think thatmeans.
Um, they're like, oh, well,when doing the thing, you know?
And so I'm like, well, here'slike how I see that term.
You know, I wonder if like thatchecks the boxes or if it's
just possible that we just hadsome kind of disagreement and we
(51:02):
don't want to use that term.
I'm like, because I'll tellkids you don't want to take the
power away from words when infact that actually happens.
You know, it's a little boythat cried wolf.
Yeah.
So it's really important thatwe're using terms correctly.
Um, I'm like, you can think andfeel whatever you want.
I'm just letting you know thatif that were to happen in a
(51:26):
different way in the future, itmight be confusing how to label
it.
Dr. Amy Moore (51:30):
So for our listeners, uh clarify for
parents what gaslighting really.
Stacy Schaeffer (51:38):
Yeah.
They're just like, yeah, likeyou know, so and so, whatever.
They're like, okay, unpack thata little bit more for me.
And then I don't know, I don'tknow.
And so I think in response tothat, I'd be like, well, here's
kind of how I see it, like a anexample from your own life, um,
example from media, whatever,um, that you're like, this is
(51:58):
how I find that term to apply.
So I'm not putting you on thespot asking you to prove it.
I'm just saying I want you tohave as much information as
possible so you can make aninformed decision about how you
feel about the people in yourlife.
Dr. Amy Moore (52:14):
Yeah, because true gaslighting is intentional,
right?
It's it's this intentionalpower play where someone makes
you think or feel like yourexperience of something didn't
happen.
Correct.
Stacy Schaeffer (52:31):
I mean, you know, and I think I think it's
important that we mention youcannot like people.
You're probably not.
I was a when I was an adult iswhen I learned that like not
everybody is supposed to likeyou.
Like I thought that it was myjob to win everyone over.
Um, and so I think that it'simportant to say to kids, like,
(52:55):
I mean, it's important to bekind to everyone, right?
We know that, but like you'rethere's there'll be people in
your journey that you won'tlike, but it doesn't mean we
should diagnose them.
They're allowed to, and you'reallowed to.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (53:11):
Right.
And and there is this a lot,there is a lot of this uh
unprofessional uh diagnostichappening, stuff happening,
right?
Like where he's a narcissist orhe's gaslighting me, or you
know, he has DID and right,like, or I right.
And so um I think that no, yougo.
Stacy Schaeffer (53:33):
Oh, it just made me think one of my um
friends' kids, I've I'mbasically like an aunt to um
this kids.
I've known them their entirelife.
Um, and they're like lateteens, and said to me once,
yeah, like I I have D I D.
And I'm like, okay, tell me,tell me more about that.
(53:54):
Um and they were like, well,because I saw on TikTok, someone
said that if you lose track oftime, like you look at the clock
and it like you can't accountfor time, like that's how you
know.
And I'm like, okay.
And I'm like, and I feel likethat's a little dangerous.
(54:16):
Um, you know, because thenyou're you're labeling yourself,
you're putting yourself in somekind of category, and you might
make decisions that are in yourbest interest based on that
diagnosis from think talk.
Dr. Amy Moore (54:30):
And tell our listeners what DID is.
Stacy Schaeffer (54:33):
Oh, um, DID stands for dissociative identity
disorder.
Um, used to be called multiplepersonality disorder, but DID is
like it authentic DID is veryrare.
Um, and it is from extremetrauma where a person's brain
has to split um into like kindof different people to hold all
(54:56):
of that trauma.
Um, and currently it's gettingthrown around when kids
sometimes, in some scenarios,maybe don't want to take
accountability for a behavior.
They're like, it was, it was,it was Fred, Fred, I don't know.
Um, and so the the genuinediagnosis is pretty rare, but I
(55:21):
do believe in internal familysystems that we're all made of a
bunch of parts, but that allworks together because we just
kind of show up in differentways, but we're fully in charge
of ourselves at all times.
Dr. Amy Moore (55:33):
And you can dissociate during a difficult
situation without actuallyhaving risk of an identity
disorder.
Stacy Schaeffer (55:43):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
That like and and disociationis um it is a a tool that your
brain gives you um when thecircumstances are too traumatic,
you know, and so but I meanthere's nothing wrong with it,
but like it's the identitydisorder where that's like
everything you are, that'susually not accurate.
Dr. Amy Moore (56:06):
Yeah.
And so let's say um your parentand your child is claiming uh
that they have a DID diagnosisbecause they got grounded for
three weeks and this wastraumatic for them.
Um, what language do yourecommend that parents use to
kind of um soften that idea?
Stacy Schaeffer (56:30):
Right.
I like I would launch back tothe internal family systems
theory, which is the theory thatthere is a self.
Um, and we have like, you know,different like parts of us that
show up, you know, like the areally like angry self, um, but
you're you're still you at alltimes.
(56:51):
So if a kid were like, that wasactually Fred, you're like,
well, you're in charge of Fred.
So like that, sorry to let youknow, the onus is back on you.
Um, and I'm and I'm sorry thatthis part made choices that you
don't agree with.
(57:11):
And so hopefully you cancommunicate with that part so it
doesn't happen again, but youare still in fact responsible.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:19):
I love that advice.
Because then you're not you'renot invalidating the claim,
you're just lowering thetemperature on the claim and
encouraging your child to stilltake responsibility for their
yeah, you're just like theaccountability is still on you
because and like you know, tofurther that conversation to be
like if if Fred commits a crime,guess who's going to juvenile
(57:43):
court?
Stacy Schaeffer (57:44):
That would still be you.
Um and so the theresponsibility is something that
we can't defer.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:53):
Yeah.
True.
Stacey, we are out of time andgo because you have a client.
Would you come back and have aconversation?
Okay.
Stacy Schaeffer (58:03):
You'd say that.
Dr. Amy Moore (58:04):
Okay, good.
Because I think we could talkfor hours.
And so um okay, so I would loveit uh if we could just continue
talking.
I think this, I think uh, youknow, teen mental health,
especially is such an important,um, easily misunderstood issue
for parents.
Um, and so I I just loved allof the amazing advice that you
(58:24):
gave today and clarification ofterminology uh that our our
teens are being exposed to.
And so we just have so muchmore that we could talk about.
Stacy Schaeffer (58:31):
So I'm excited.
We'll bring you back foranother episode.
Yeah, as the clock was ticking,because I do keep track of time
as self.
Um, I was like, oh, I hope thatthere's gonna be another
conversation.
So prepare for it.
Dr. Amy Moore (58:44):
Absolutely.
Um, Stacy, how can ourlisteners find more from you in
the meantime?
Stacy Schaeffer (58:49):
Yeah, so I have a website that my publishing
company made for me um calledauthorstacy.com.
So it's Stacy with no E,Schaefer with a C and two F's,
because my name is has a millionways to misspell it.
And so hopefully it'll be insomething you have.
(59:09):
But yeah, um there'sinformation about my book and
there's a contact me uh formlike that you can just like type
in there.
So it's a free to contact me.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:18):
Okay, we'll put all of that in the show notes.
Uh so that listeners with alink to uh get your book on
Amazon and all of that goodstuff.
Stacy Schaeffer (59:25):
Yay, okay so much for having me.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:28):
Thank you so much for being with us today.
This has been a greatconversation.
Stacy Schaeffer (59:31):
Fantastic.
So I'll see you soon.
Yes, you will.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:43):
Listeners, thanks so much for being with us
today.
If you liked our show, comefind us on social media at the
Brainy Moms.
You can find us online attheBrainy Moms.com.
We would love it if you wouldleave us a five star rating and
review on Apple Podcasts.
Um, and you can find more aboutour sponsor at learningrx.com.
So, look, we hope that you feela little smarter after spending
(01:00:06):
this hour with us.
And we're going to catch younext time.
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