November 3, 2025 • 48 mins
What if helping your kid find “the right career” starts with removing the pressure to choose one? On this episode of The Brainy Moms Podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy sit down with counselor and career coach Dr. Tega Edwin to rethink how families approach work, college, and the messy middle in between. From fifth-grade classrooms to college advising offices, she’s seen how early biases about gender and prestige quietly close doors—and how simple exposure to real people in diverse roles opens them again.
We unpack a practical roadmap: start with exploration in childhood, not decisions; move into skill-building and option-finding in the teen years; and treat careers as fluid expressions of who we are, not final destinations. Dr. Tega shares classroom-tested ideas that make pathways tangible. For parents guiding older teens, we dig into smarter college strategy—sampling classes, staying undeclared when helpful, using career services early, and avoiding the debt spiral of constant major changes. You’ll also hear how to translate any degree into marketable skills, and why “What Can I Do With This Major?” belongs in every family’s toolbox.
Money worries fuel career fear, so we go straight at financial literacy: budgeting, saving, and investing as the bedrock of freedom to explore. We talk about leveraging your network for shadowing, coaching social skills for the workplace, and turning part-time jobs into lessons in EQ, advocacy, and professionalism. And when a dream is blocked—by health, academics, or reality—we talk about redirecting it without crushing it, honoring the spirit behind the goal. Along the way, we challenge parents to audit their own beliefs about work, because kids learn from what we model, not just what we say.
If you’re ready to replace anxiety with clarity and give your kids tools to pivot with purpose, hit play. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who’s stressing about career and majors, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so more families can find it.
ABOUT US:
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:30):
Hi, Smart Moms and Dads.
I'm Dr.
Amy Moore here with my co-hostSandy Zamalis.
And Sandy and I are superexcited to have a conversation
today with Dr.
Tega Edwin.
Let me tell you a little bitabout Dr.
Tega and why she is here.
She's a counselor educator, alicensed counselor and career
coach who worked as a schoolcounselor helping children,
(00:50):
teens, and families navigatecareer exploration and big life
decisions before transitioningto a career in coaching.
Known as Her Career Doctor, sheequips women to find fulfilling
work for themselves and landhigher-paying jobs that improve
their life satisfaction.
Her work combinesresearch-based career
(01:11):
development strategies withreal-life counseling experience
to make conversations about thefuture less overwhelming and
more empowering for families.
Dr.
Tega is here to talk with ustoday about the best ways for us
to encourage our kids in theirown exploration of careers.
Welcome, Dr.
Tega.
Dr. Tega Edwin (01:31):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to theconversation.
Sandy Zamalis (01:34):
Yeah, we're excited that you're here.
I know so many of our parentsreally need help in this regard
because that this is a hugeoverwhelming topic to try to
figure out the future for theirkids or help guide their kids in
figuring out their future.
So let's jump in and figure outhave you tell our listeners
what is it about this that umkind of spurred you on?
(01:57):
How did you get into thisfield?
Dr. Tega Edwin (01:59):
So my journey started in school.
Well, no, really, my journeystarted when I thought I wanted
to be a medical doctor becauseso I'm Nigerian and so I grew up
in a culture where real jobsvery fitting for this
conversation, real jobs werethings like being a doctor, a
lawyer, an engineer, a nurse,things like that.
So I thought medicine was thepath for me.
And that was more societalpressure, not family pressure.
(02:20):
But I failed the MCAT.
I had started a psychologyminor in my junior year of
college, and then I fell in lovewith psych minor.
And then I took the MCAT, Ithink at the end and failed.
And I was like, okay, this isclearly not the path for me.
But that was how I thenpivoted, just started thinking
about what do I really want todo?
What do I enjoy?
What kind of work do I want todo?
And back then I loved beingaround kids and working with
(02:42):
kids.
So that's how I discoveredcounseling.
And so I went back, got mymaster's in counseling, became a
school counselor.
I worked in apay-by-performance district in
Colorado Springs.
And it was interesting becausefor school counselors, two of
the metrics, well, there werethree total, but two of the
metrics they used to determinecounselors' pay was attendance.
(03:03):
And fifth graders would takethis career test, and how they
performed on this career testwould determine our pay moving
forward.
That was it for counselors.
And so obviously, I was like,wait, what?
I had not been taught aboutthis in my master's program, did
not know what I was doing.
But I really loved schoolcounseling.
I love being around kids.
So even if it was gonna be atest type thing, I still wanted
(03:24):
it to be fun for the kids.
So that's when I started doingexploration for okay, these are
fifth graders, 10, 11-year-olds.
How am I gonna talk to themabout career?
Which is it's not even in therealm of what they are thinking
of right now.
And so my research led me todevelop this program that helped
them really just explorethemselves and who they are and
work.
And I just saw the kids lightup.
Like this was one of the fewplaces where school felt like it
(03:47):
was about them, like they weretalking about themselves.
Some of them would talk aboutwanting to be basketball players
or um, you know, one of thearchaeologists.
It was a really cool project.
But that was how my love forcareer development started.
So when I went to get my PhD,my research was actually in
school-based career development.
Um, and it was in that paththat I became a career counselor
(04:08):
and so pivoted to start workingwith adults.
And then when I became afaculty member, I missed doing
the career work and I stillwanted to help people because
I've just seen how much careerconfusion can really stress
people out.
It doesn't matter the age, itdoesn't matter the generation.
When you don't know what youthink in your head, like I don't
know what I'm doing with mylife, so to speak, it can feel
(04:30):
very stressful.
And so I really love this work.
So that was why I started mycareer coaching business, in
addition to what I do as afaculty.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:37):
I love that.
And I love that you talk aboutthat term career confusion.
You know, before we started theepisode, you mentioned how
we've got kids going to collegeand their prefrontal cortex
isn't even fully developed yet,which makes reasoning really
difficult, right?
It makes weighing all thealternatives really difficult.
(04:57):
So of course you're in thespace of being confused.
And then confusion causesstress, which is then right, an
emotional roller coaster.
Dr. Tega Edwin (05:08):
You said something when you when you
started asking as you know,parents are struggling to help
their kids figure this out.
And I'm like, some parents areeven struggling to figure it out
for themselves.
Like we're just not taught howto make career decisions,
period.
As a society, people expect youto figure it out.
And so I think that's also partof where that stress comes
from.
Sandy Zamalis (05:25):
Yeah, I was gonna add that, you know, I think
some of it's a paradigm shifttoo, right?
Dr.
Take, like careers aren't formany people like a longevity
game.
Like it's it's you know, exceptfor things like doctors,
lawyers, engineers, you know,definitely there's some
longevity there.
For the majority of uh society,a lot of times those jobs are
(05:48):
going to switch and change.
So it's really about figuringout what your skill set is, what
you're good at.
Are you good on your own?
Are you a creative?
Like there's a lot of, I think,uh, discussion that probably
needs to happen around thataspect.
So share with our listenerswhat did you do in that
classroom that really helpedyour students see themselves in
(06:10):
this process of thinking aboutwho they wanted to be when they
grew up.
Dr. Tega Edwin (06:14):
For sure, yes.
So it was a, I want to sayeight-week unit, but I remember
we started with things like thethe biggest one I remember this
was two weeks that really sortof blew their mind was I just
started with this concept ofmultiple intelligences.
And I know that the research ismixed on multiple intelligences
and if people believe in them,but these are 10-year-olds,
(06:35):
right?
Like I was not trying to changetheir world, so to speak.
It was more just okay, youmight not be good at math, but
the fact that you're good atsports matters and is still a
way of being intelligent.
Or for the ones who are good atmusic or the ones who are good
at drawing, right?
So I was I taught them thisconcept of the different eight,
um, the eight types ofintelligences.
(06:56):
And that I believe really sortof blew their mind because I
think a lot of the kids grow uphearing things like, you know,
you have to pass math, reading,science, that's it.
And so they think if I'm notgreat at those things, then I'm
not smart or I'm not good enoughor I don't know what I'm doing.
And so that really, like Isaid, shifted for them what they
(07:18):
thought about what it means tobe an intelligent, capable
person.
And then we started exploringthings like I would talk to them
about their interests.
So, just what kind of things doyou like doing in your free
time, right?
Like, do you like playinggames?
Do you like reading books?
Like, what does that processlook like?
And I think they really foundthat helpful.
(07:38):
So we did, so in Colorado, wehad this career exploration
website.
A lot of states have them.
Here I'm in Missouri now, wehave it too.
And so I just had them do someof these assessments.
There was a Holland, it'scalled the Holland Interest
Survey, but tailored for kids,where they just took an
assessment and it tells them,Oh, are you more of a hands-on
person?
Are you more of a talking topeople person?
(07:59):
Are you more of a research anddata or numbers person?
So we did that.
And then we talked aboutdifferent types of degrees
post-school.
So I was teaching them aboutthings like associate's degree,
bachelor's degree, on-the-jobtraining.
And I remember this one, theyreally enjoyed this because I
used Legos to show like theLegos were numbers of years.
(08:21):
And so we were using it's okay,how long does an associate
degree take?
Two blue Legos, but abachelor's degree can take, you
know, four blue Legos.
It was just again ways to makeit hands-on for them to just
conceptualize that.
And then we talked about careerclusters.
And this was something that Ialready had a poster in my
office, but just again, helpingthem see the different places
that um you can work in terms ofwhen we think about clustering
(08:44):
it, whether it's the medical uhfield, retail, just helping them
see the nine different careerclusters that exist, again, to
expand their horizon.
And that's because the researchshows us that by fifth grade,
most children have alreadystarted eliminating career
options based on two factors,gender and prestige.
Gender meaning if they seephysical, just how people
(09:07):
present.
So if in their brains they seeall their doctors are men, their
brain tells them only men canbe doctors.
If they see physically allnurses are women, their brain
tells them only women can benurses.
So then a little boy who wantsto be a nurse might look at, so
again, at that age, that they'restill very binary in their
thinking.
So might look at a nurse andthink, oh, I can't be a nurse
(09:30):
because I haven't seen one wholooks like me.
That's the gender piece.
And then prestige, what theresearch shows is based on how
adults around them talk aboutjobs, how they treat people
around them, they start todecide which jobs are worth
pursuing or not.
So, for example, if you're in afamily where you hear them
talking crap about your jenderas a child, your brain says, Oh,
(09:51):
that's not a good enough jobfor me.
You eliminate it.
So there's a theory, it'scalled Gottfurton's theory,
which is a bit controversialbecause her research kind of
went off the rails when it comesto race later on in her life.
But there's been enoughempirical evidence for the first
part of that study to show thatby fifth grade, children are
(10:11):
eliminating options based ongender and prestige.
Then we see that by highschool, they are now eliminating
based on what they think istheir effort level.
I'm not smart enough for amedical degree, so doctor's not
good enough.
I can't be a doctor.
I don't have the tolerance toum go for a master's degree, so
I'm not gonna be an engineer.
So really we see thatthroughout is we call this the
(10:33):
process of circumscription andcompromise.
Children are throughout theirlives, they are compromising
based on what they see aroundthem.
The reason why I share that isso for me, at that elementary
school level, what researchshows is it's all about
exposure.
It's not about decision makingat all.
It's just see as many differentjobs, see as many different
kinds of people doing as manydifferent kinds of jobs as
(10:55):
possible so that your braindoesn't tell you you can't do
something.
So that's why for me, then Iwas doing like that career
clusters, because it was like,especially because I was working
in a um high, free, and reducedmeal school district.
So a lot of my kids were notreally exposed.
So if you've never seen that atruck driver can make good
money, you might think that'snot a good enough job.
(11:15):
So showing you what thesedifferent clusters of work look
like is what I was aiming for.
And so we spent a couple ofweeks talking about the career
clusters.
Um, I forgot to say that at thebeginning of the unit, I also
just explained to them thedifference between a job and a
career so they could wrap theirminds around it.
And then we ended with a careerfair.
So, you know how back they usedto do the science fairs with
the trifold board.
(11:36):
So throughout the research,there were research and options.
They would pick a job and thenresearch, and they built each
built like a trifold board forone career and put all this
information on it.
And we had it in the library,parents came to look at it.
We matched it with like themusical night, and it was really
just a fun process of themlearning about themselves and
learning about just differentoptions that are available out
there.
So that was what I did withthem.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:57):
So I love that you made that distinction that
at the elementary school level,it's about exposure, right?
That we're not actually puttingpressure on them.
Like you, in fact, say, don'task kids what do you want to be
when you grow up, right?
Um but I love the idea ofimmersing kids in um, you know,
experiences where they can seeall of those different career
(12:21):
options.
And I would think, and is yourrecommendation that they should
see non-traditional gender rolesin the jobs?
Like, for example, my husbandis a nurse.
He's a male nurse, right?
So, like I would think heshould go speak at a career fair
so that boys know that thereare lots of male nurses out
(12:42):
there.
Dr. Tega Edwin (12:43):
Absolutely.
So when we think about physicalcultural identities, race,
gender, disability status, wereally want kids to see
different types of people doingdifferent types of job so that
their brain doesn't link aspecific identity to a specific
job.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:59):
Yeah, I like that.
So you say that careers arefluid, not final.
And I think we started talkingabout that.
Normalize that.
Dr. Tega Edwin (13:12):
Tell us why that's okay.
Yeah, because even Sandy, whenyou said, you know, some jobs
have longevity, like maybedoctor, lawyer, engineer.
I was like, I have three lawyerclients right now who are
making a career pivot.
Nothing is long anymore.
It's gonna say longevity.
I always say I can make upwords, I have a PhD, but nothing
has longevity anymore.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:32):
We're experts when we have a PhD.
We're allowed to make up thosewords.
Dr. Tega Edwin (13:36):
I can make up a word, it's not longevity.
But so the thing, the thing isa lot of us who are parents now
grew up under a generation whowas taught that work was
something that you did for 20years.
Like you work until you retireor you die.
Literally, those were your onlyoptions.
You work to put food on thetable, you work to pay the
(13:59):
bills.
That was like work had afunction, keep you alive, feed
you, contribute to society, anddo one thing.
Go to college, get a degree, doone thing related to that
degree until you can't do itanymore.
That I think served them forthe generation that they were
in, so to speak, but that's notthe world we live in anymore.
Now people desire fulfillment,people desire impact, people
(14:21):
desire satisfaction, people arerecognizing, and I this is
something I say when I teach acareer counseling class, and I
always talk about how we spendmost of our awakening hours at
work.
The at best, you're doing 40hours.
Most people work more than 40hours.
Over your adult lifetime,that's 90,000 hours that you
spend at work.
People are realizing they don'twant to be miserable for 90,000
(14:44):
hours of their lives.
And so work is no longer justthis functional thing, it's a
form of expression.
People now want to work toexpress themselves.
The thing though is we aspeople are not stagnant.
So the thing that you canexpress yourself with when
you're in your 20s might bedifferent when you're in your
30s, might be different as youremember in 40s, 50s, because
your values change, yourinterests change, you learn new
(15:06):
skills, you develop newinterests, interests, all that
changes.
And so, as you as an individualgrow and change, the kind of
work that satisfies you is alsogoing to grow and change.
But most of us haven't beensocialized to think about work
that way.
We socialize that change isbad, change is given up, change
means you're a quitter.
And so we might try to stickout a bad job, try to prove that
(15:27):
we can do it, even when we'refeeling miserable.
And unfortunately, our childrensee that.
They see that you come hometired from work, they see that
you're complaining about workwith your loved ones every day,
they see that you arecomplaining about your boss,
they see that you don't havetime to spend with them because
work is so busy.
And so they internalize thatwork is just we do this one
thing, we pick it and we go.
And so if you want to breakthat cycle, we have to have that
(15:49):
conversation with kids of, youknow, you pick something that
you will enjoy for this for oneseason of your life.
But if in another season youfind something else is inter is
interesting, you can make achange.
It's all about having the skillset to make that change, all
about knowing how to pivot.
And so work very much is fluidbecause we as people are fluid.
And most of the times, one ofthe when I look at my work with
(16:11):
women, the thing that keeps alot of women dissatisfied is
they've stayed too long in whatI call a job that's expired
because it doesn't fit youanymore.
It doesn't match who you are inthis season of your life.
You started this job when youwere a single 20-something year
old and you could grind and doall that.
Now you're a mother who hasdifferent values, different
priorities, and the workplacehasn't shifted to match that.
(16:32):
So that's why that tension nowexists because you're not
expressing yourself as who youreally authentically are right
now in this season of your life.
Sandy Zamalis (16:42):
How do we prepare our teenagers and like young
college kids for that kind offluidity?
Because our systems aren't setup for that.
They're not, they're not not atall.
I mean, very much about puttingthe time, grind, grind, grind.
Um, so what would be yoursuggestion for parents there?
How do we help prep them forthis kind of fluid mindset?
Dr. Tega Edwin (17:05):
I think conversations from a young age.
This is why I said that.
They're not asking that what doyou want to be when you grow
up?
One of the reasons why I saidat the beginning I want to be a
medical doctor was because whenI was, I think, 10, I said I was
gonna be a pediatrician and Icould not let that go.
I literally, like, that's why Iall the way to college, I said
I'm gonna be a doctor.
So I'm going to be a doctor.
I don't want to disappoint myparents.
(17:25):
I've been talking about this,I've told everybody what I'm
gonna do.
If I quit now, it's bad, right?
The thing about conversation islike instead of what do you
want to be when you grow up,what do you enjoy doing?
What thing makes you feel likeyou could do it for if you could
do one thing for the wholeweekend, what would that one
thing be?
And you, as the parents,studying your kids.
(17:45):
So, for example, if I think ofmy nephews right now, I have one
nephew who literally he'll justhe'll make comic books.
He said, Ante Take, do you wantto read my comic book?
And I'm like, this is an artskid.
He loves to dance, he loves todraw.
If we make this child go intoscience, I will fight the world
because that is not his path,right?
But just observing those typesof things about what is the
thing that when you leave yourchild alone, they do it on their
(18:08):
own.
And then are there ways for youto invest in that, whether it's
a class, you sitting down withthem, but just exploring it
without any pressure.
If they get tired of it, it'sfine.
Don't say, Oh, you stoppeddrawing.
No, it's okay, what's the newthing that you're interested in?
So when we teach them early onthat their interest can change,
they internalize that so thatwhen they're adults, they'll
realize that their interest canchange, right?
(18:29):
So if my nephew stops drawingright now, and I go and I say,
Oh, but your comic books were sogreat.
Why did you stop?
You could have gotten better.
That is a subliminal message ofyou're not good because you
stopped, right?
You could have gotten better,so now you're getting worse
because you stopped the thing,as opposed to, oh, what are you
interested in now?
Why do you like it?
What do you enjoy about it?
And then you start to learn,okay, what are the things that
(18:51):
your child is gravitatingtowards?
And you're you're plantingseeds that change doesn't make
you a quitter.
Change does mean change justmeans that you understand
yourself and you know how tomove with the tides internally,
so to speak.
So that's like I think earlylevel.
I think another bigconversation that we need to
switch is the college pipelineis terrible, right?
But we can't change thatsystem.
(19:12):
So, how do we work in it?
Think about sitting with yourkid before college and having a
conversation, like if theychoose college, right?
So, first of all, I should saypre-that, ask them if they want
to go to college, right?
A lot of us who already went tocollege assume that it's the
only way our children can besuccessful.
It's the only way that they canbe financially stable.
But I always remember when Iwas a school counselor, I used
(19:34):
to say, I have a master's degreeand truck drivers make more
than I do.
Right.
So it's it's not just about thedegree, it's about if you know
what their interests are, thenyou might know that, oh, the
best way for you to besuccessful in what you have said
you kind of are interested inis going to be a degree.
For some other child, it mightbe on-the-job training.
It just depends on thoseinterests that you've observed.
(19:55):
So, okay, do they want to do afigure out two-year degree,
on-the-job training, four-yeardegree?
What is it?
But then after that, even whenthey're going to college, giving
them that opportunity to say,okay, uh, what kind of subjects
were you enjoying in high inwhen you were in high school?
And how can they take thatfirst year, just that first
year, to explore a few differentclasses to see what did you
(20:16):
like learning about?
What did you enjoy before youpick a major?
A lot of institutions will letum kids go at least a year
undeclared before they declare amajor.
And so let them explore and youuh sort of give them that
message of if you stop likebeing interested in this topic,
that's fine.
You can still finish thedegree, but we can find like you
can find jobs that are notdirectly related to your degree.
(20:39):
I think what we see happeningis uh let's say a child starts
chemistry and they realize theyhate me.
I majored in biology and Ifailed OCAM and I was like, I
hate this.
But I thought I couldn'tchange, right?
I have to do this.
So I minored in psychology.
Okay, but I didn't do anything.
I'm, you know, I went to adifferent degree path.
But some other child would havethought, oh, I have to now
(20:59):
change my major to do somethingthat I want to do.
But the problem with that isthe more you change your major,
the longer you stay in school.
The longer you stay in school,the more debt you're racking up,
right?
So if we let them know, okay,no, as long as you get that
degree, if you're doing afour-year degree as soon as
possible, we can figure out howto market your skills for
something else, right?
Don't rack up this debt that'sgonna be weight on your back.
(21:20):
But more often than not, ifthey've explored classes, at
least in that first year,they'll have a sense of, I
didn't like the science ones,but I like the art ones, I like
the writing ones.
Maybe I want to major inEnglish.
Okay, now let's sit down.
What can what are the options?
That's the other thing that'smissing.
What are the options that areavailable with this degree that
you have?
Um, I can't think of it now,but I will think of it and share
(21:41):
it with you all post the postour recording.
But there was a website.
Oh, it's called What Can I Dowith This Major?
When I worked as a careercounselor on um a college
campus, that we used to use thatwebsite because it'll take a
major and show you all thedifferent types of jobs you can
do with it.
It'll show you the professionalassociations tied to that job
so that kids have this mindsetof, okay, even if I'm getting
(22:03):
this degree, the world can stillopen up to me.
It's all about options.
I still have options.
I don't have to, because I didscience, be a doctor.
Because I did engineering, bean engineer.
No, there are options.
And because we as adults aren'tsocialized to think that way,
we often can't help our kids dothat.
So send them to the careerservices center, look up
resources on your own.
(22:24):
Um, I just thought of anotherone.
It's called CUDER, K-U-D-E-R.
It's career exploration butgamified.
So kids can play games, butthey're learning about careers,
learning about themselves.
So I think this really comesdown to conversations about
options and that fluidity whileyou are also observing your
child.
You're observing what they'reinterested in, what excites them
(22:46):
without you getting stuck inone thing.
I've seen that happen withparents where, but they said
they wanted to be a doctor.
They have to be a doctor.
No, they changed their mind andthat's okay.
You have to model for them thatchanging their mind is okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:00):
Okay.
I like I almost cried a minuteago.
Um, as you were normalizingthis idea of um, this is who you
are in this season, and that'sokay.
Or just because you have thisdegree doesn't mean you have to
work in that career fieldbecause that could be applicable
to others, right?
(23:20):
And so um, you know, I was acareer changer, and so um my mom
always blamed that on my ADHDthat I didn't stick with the
same thing.
And then I kept switching.
In fact, I overheard aconversation uh that she was
having with my aunt once.
Well, why is she doing that?
(23:41):
Well, because she has ADHD andshe can't stay with one thing.
And in my mind, I was movingforward.
I was doing something new andexciting and in a way that I
could help a bigger number ofpeople, right?
Like, and so to be able to hearthat like we should celebrate
(24:02):
that rather than shaking ourheads and you know, blaming that
on um a lack of sticktoativeness.
So I appreciate that youabsolutely bring that up.
And I also love this idea ofcollege is so expensive.
College is so expensive.
And so you've got a kid who'slike changes their major three
(24:23):
or four times and you're justseeing dollar signs, right?
Every time your kid comes homeand says, Oh, I didn't like
that, I'm gonna change my major.
And so to be able to redirectthem to, okay, look how many
credits you've already, youknow, finished.
How can we compromise?
Like, how can you use whatyou've already done to in this
(24:44):
career path um so that we don'tspend an inordinate, an
ordinary?
See, I'm now I'm making upwords.
Hey, an enormous amount ofmoney uh while you figure all of
this out.
I can remember when I was incollege as a psychology major, I
was um uh waiting tables and Ihad this table of eight
(25:05):
businessmen, um, and they wereasking about me.
And I said, I'm a psych major.
And six of those eightbusinessmen, they were bankers,
all had psych degrees.
And they laughed at me and theysaid, Maybe you can be a banker
like us.
And like they graduated andrealized, okay, I don't want to
be a psychologist with thisdegree, but where can this be
(25:26):
applicable?
And oh my goodness, the skillsthat you learn understanding
human behavior are absolutelyapplicable in banking, right?
These are people who aredealing with their money and
their finances and what are theygonna invest in, right?
And so those skills wereapplicable to them.
I always laughed.
I'm like, no, I'm not gonna bea banker like the other psych
(25:46):
majors, but anyway, yeah.
unknown (25:49):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:50):
And let me go ahead, Sandy.
Sandy Zamalis (25:52):
Oh no, I was gonna say the only thing I
wanted to add to that too,because I mean, I think we've
all been there, right?
I mean, I definitely, you know,I was I shared that story about
how we had to have anintervention with my son in
engineering school because hewas failing and he wouldn't, for
whatever reason, he was lockedin um and would not bail.
And so we were like, I thinkit's time to bail.
(26:14):
I don't think this is yourcalling, not because you're
failing, because it's just itisn't who you are.
Like this doesn't push you,like there's something else
you've locked in here, and it'snot that because this is your
passion, right?
Like, so we were trying to uhget him uh resorted and and it
worked out well.
But we, you know, he was inschool longer.
I remember those, you know,long conversations with my
(26:36):
husband.
He was panicking about themoney, and and you know, my
theory at the time was you know,the way our system is set up,
which is kind of why I calledthat out a minute ago, is that
our kids just don't have thoseopportunities to do internships
and to get those experiencesanymore.
So I would rather him fail incollege and have it be a little
(26:59):
costly for him to figure out whohe is and figure out, you know,
what path he needs to go andbuild some resilience.
Because up until that point,he'd never failed anything.
So I think he kind of neededthat to like struggle a little
bit so he could figure out howto get more in alignment with
who he was.
Um, but then I also remember,and maybe you can speak to this,
(27:20):
Dr.
Tega, you know, there's also abattle, like it's a you know,
generational thing, a battle of,oh, well, you can't pay rent
with a job like that, or youknow, like, you know, how do we
overcome that?
Um, that any stigma or youknow, incorrect beliefs we have
about careers, because you'reright, the career landscape has
(27:41):
changed.
There are more creatives thatare, you know, able to be in the
workspace than ever before.
So any of those artistic piecesin music or art, there's more
space in the business and careerwork career world for them now
than there ever has been.
Um, so how do you help parentsor help kids kind of wrap their
brains around that piece to justpush that away?
(28:03):
That yes, you actually may beable to pay rent with this
career that you love or thinkingthat you're gonna love down the
line.
Dr. Tega Edwin (28:11):
Yeah.
So there's three things I and Iwrote them now that I want to
talk about first, um, with theexposure, because you talked
about internships can be harderto get, which is true.
However, as adults, we stillhave networks where we can help
get our students opportunitiesto shadow people.
So that's another way incollege, if you can start from
in fact high school, where it'sjust follow a doctor around,
follow a banker around, followan engineer around.
(28:33):
Just see again a differentlevel of exposure where we're
not just talking about it, butyou're seeing their day-to-day
as another way to help them inthat decision-making process of
that looked like a terrible day.
I don't want to do that job,but that looked like a fun day.
I might be interested in that.
And then also thinking aboutlanguage in a few different
ways.
So, for example, if I think ofyour son, I know you said it
(28:53):
worked out.
So back then, one thing I wouldsay is so for if I think of the
word, for example, passion,kids have a hard time, but kids
don't know what that meansbecause they're not old enough
to have a passion, candidly.
Like they have interest, butnot passions.
And so, even thinking about ifif a parent listening is
thinking, oh, my son or my childis in that situation right now,
asking questions like, okay,you're locked into engineering.
But let me ask you this (29:16):
what do you like doing in your free
time?
What makes you feel happy?
What makes you feel good?
What do you enjoy doing?
Let's just have a conversation,just tell us about you and what
you enjoy.
And then you, as the parent,just listening, and then you're
and then you're listening forpatterns.
And saying something like,okay, Bob, Bobby, as I'm hearing
you talk, none of that soundedlike an engineer, babe.
(29:38):
Like I'm hearing like an artistor somebody who wants to dance.
What do you like?
And you being light about theconversation.
That way they know it's morewe're just talking about you.
And like, maybe I didn't hearan engineer there.
I heard an artist.
So what's up with thisengineering thing?
Tell me about it.
Because maybe there's people incollege telling him that if he
quits his a failure.
Maybe a teacher had said, ifyou're not an engineer, you're
(29:58):
not good enough, right?
Because sometimes we don't knowhow the other adults are
influencing them.
That makes them locked intothat path.
And so we need to be adifferent voice in their lives
and opening it up to okay, tellme about you, tell me about who
you are.
And I'm listening for patternsso that I can then feed back
what I've heard you say.
So I wanted to share those twothings.
Um, and then to answer yourquestion.
(30:19):
But I had thought about thiswhen we were talking earlier.
A lot of times, even as adults,uh, one of the biggest things
that keep us uh stuck insituations we don't like is
lacking.
Of financial stability.
And so candidly, and I wasgonna say this earlier a good
way to get that thought of Ican't pay rent with this out of
your child's head is to improvetheir financial literacy early
(30:43):
on.
So it's it's it's not directlycareer related, but I think
that's just the foundation of.
I remember like I was tellingmy husband just recently, I was
like, one thing that I'm mad atmy dad for, because he was an
accountant, right?
He was a banker.
And I started working incollege.
And I'm like, why did he nevertell me about it?
Did he have a psych degree?
No, he did not.
He did not have a financedegree.
But I remember saying he wasinvesting, he was getting
(31:05):
dividends.
Why didn't he just tell me as akid, even just make me, I would
have been mad, but just say $20from your paycheck has to go
into the stock market.
Like, I don't care what you dowith the rest, but you have to
invest this $20.
I would have been mad as achild.
I know that.
But now as an adult, I would beso grateful because that money
would have grown exponentially.
And so, how do we from youngstart teaching our kids about
(31:27):
investing, about budgeting,about saving?
Because if they at least have afinancial safety net, they're
more likely to explore.
Most times we lose our wonder,we lose our exploration because
of the reality of I have billsto pay and I do have a rent to
pay.
So that's like an addition ofhow can you help your child just
learn about finances andfinances and build a financial
(31:47):
safety net.
And then for the one, okay, Iwant to be a creative, I got to
pay rent.
Can you find creatives who arepaying rent that they can talk
to?
Right?
Remember, it's all about thatpossibility model.
They have to see it.
So not a superstar, but a reallife person who's leaving living
day to day, how are they makingit work?
Right.
And having them have thatconversation with someone who
(32:08):
can say, Oh, here's what I did,here's how it worked, here's
what didn't work.
And then they can think, okay,do I want to go down this path?
Or, okay, maybe I'm gonna givethem options.
I'm always about the options.
You can work on your art whileyou work at Starbucks or work at
you know a grocery store,whatever it is.
Like you can get the money insomewhere, but just because it's
not paying now doesn't mean youhave to give up on that dream.
(32:30):
It's gonna be hard work for afew years.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest,it's gonna be hard work for a
few years.
But if this is what you want todo, it's gonna pay off.
Oftentimes, parents don't givechildren that possibility.
We are scared of our kidsliving out on the street.
So we want them to get what wethink is a stable job.
So we don't want them to worktwo jobs, right?
Because to us, it's not gonnawork.
So we don't let them make thosemistakes or do that
(32:50):
exploration.
And so I think even encouragingthat process um can help kids
move through that mindset.
As is if we don't feed it tothem, they will not internalize
it.
Dr. Amy Moore (33:02):
Okay, so what do you say to the teen or young
adult who is actually having theopposite thought?
That they don't want tomonetize their hobby.
They don't want to take whatthey love, that they're so good
at, that they do for fun.
They're afraid to turn it intoa career because then they're
(33:24):
afraid they'll end up hating it,that they'll get sick of it if
they have to do it.
Speak to that.
Dr. Tega Edwin (33:30):
Yeah, then we I say, what else are you
interested in?
So we are none of us as humanbeings are single.
We're all multifaceted.
We're not one-dimensional.
So, yes, you might have onehobby that you love and you
don't want to monetize.
That's good.
Keep it as a hobby.
You probably have other thingsyou're interested in too that
you could work in, even asadults.
So, what are other things thatyou like learning about that you
(33:52):
like doing?
And can we find a job?
Let's keep your hobby a hobby.
Let's find something else thatyou enjoy and explore that as
career options.
We can give them that optionof, okay, that's fine.
You know, you have multiplehobbies, let's pick a different
one that we can see how you canmonetize.
Sandy Zamalis (34:07):
I love how you alluded to the shadowing and how
parents really need to engagetheir own networks because um, I
think I love the financialliteracy piece, but talk a
little more about building thosenetworks because building
networks is really important.
And it's also a piece that wedo not teach our kids.
Um you have to meet people,learn how to meet people, learn
(34:31):
how to um engage with people sothat you get to have more
experiences and you can do theseshadowing kinds of pieces.
More hiring is done fromconnection than from you know
paper job descriptions.
unknown (34:45):
Yeah.
Dr. Tega Edwin (34:46):
I think first it would be us as the adults have
to be curious about other peopleand what they do.
Like wherever I go, and this isjust the career coaching me,
I'm always asking people abouttheir jobs, not what they do,
but just what do you do daily?
Because I'm just curious, Ilike to know what jobs are out
there.
Sometimes people will look atme like, why are you asking
this?
I'm like, I'm a career coach, Ijust like to know these things.
But then I learn about jobs Ididn't know existed.
And so I don't think everyadult is that way.
(35:08):
Because most of us hate ourjobs, we don't like to talk
about it.
It's it's it's not a dinnertable conversation unless we're
complaining.
And so, how can you, as anadult, be willing to engage
other adults to learn, whetheryou are at the coffee shop or at
the grocery store or whatever,just oh, I mean, sort of, how do
you spend your days?
And that's how you can ask thequestion instead of what do you
do, right?
How do you spend your days?
And you can say, you know, Ihave a teenager that I'm trying,
(35:30):
you can give them the context,right?
I have a teenager that I'mtrying to expose to different
jobs.
So I've just been trying tolearn more about what's out
there, and then you askingfriends, right?
You know, it's oh, I know youdo blank, Bobby's going to
college in two years.
I want him to learn as manyoptions as possible.
Would it be okay if he came towork with you for one day or for
half a day or a couple of hoursjust to see what you do?
(35:50):
Give him a taste of you knowwhat work looks like.
And so it's you leveragingthose relationships.
And then before your child isgoing into the spaces, you
teaching them aboutprofessionalism, about how to
have conversations, aboutthanking people, about building
relationships, about beingemotionally intelligent, right?
Like teaching them those skillsfor how do you ask questions?
(36:10):
Let's write down threequestions.
What okay, you're going inhere.
What do you want to know aboutthese jobs?
Write them down.
Okay, make sure you find timeto ask.
Here's how you can tell when,like, if if they're talking to
somebody else, wait for them tofinish talking before you ask.
Wait for when you're alone,like teaching them social
interactions so that as and andmaybe saying, When you come home
this evening, I want you totell me three things you noticed
(36:32):
about how people talk to eachother at that office, so that
then you're giving them homeworkof not just learning, but
watching interactions so thatthey also know how to build
those professional relationshipsin the future.
Also, if they do go thetraditional education route, a
lot of institutions will donetworking events.
They'll have career service,like a career services office
(36:52):
that does networking events thatbrings recruiters in, that
teaches them professionalism.
I can't tell you how when Iworked as a career counselor on
a college campus, how many timesit was hilarious.
Kids would be like ongraduation, on their way out,
they'll park their car in frontof our office, run in and say, I
need help finding a job.
So you've been here for fouryears and you never once came
(37:14):
in.
And on the last day, you'resaying you need help.
And that's not to shade them.
They didn't know the serviceexisted.
They didn't know that offer waspossible, right?
Like that we offered thatservice.
But ideally, the adults intheir life should have known and
said, Hey, go talk to thecareer counselor and see what
they say about picking a major,right?
Or when you're doing the, youknow, college, college campus
(37:36):
visit, asking, do you have acareer services center?
How do you support children inmaking decisions?
You, as the adult, asking thesequestions and then pushing your
kid to use those servicesbecause it's included in that
really expensive tuition anyway.
So they should leverage it.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:51):
I love that.
Okay, let's talk about being adream killer.
And at what point in ourchild's life do we become the
dream killer?
For example, uh, you've got akid who has aspirations for
being a fighter pilot, but theyhave an autoimmune disease.
So they won't be able to be inthe military, right?
(38:12):
So, I mean, that happened in myhouse, right?
I mean, my husband is a formerfighter pilot.
So one of my kids really wantedto do that as well, but he has
celiac disease, which is anautomatic disqualifier.
So at what point would it havebeen appropriate for me to say,
not gonna happen?
I'm gonna have to smash thatdream?
(38:33):
Or what if you've got a kid whowants to be an astronaut, but
they're barely a C student?
Like there's no way thatthey're gonna get into a
military academy, become anofficer, and get to be the
0.001% who actually gets to bethe astronaut.
How do we handle situationslike that?
unknown (38:52):
Yeah.
Dr. Tega Edwin (38:53):
You know, I'm glad you brought that up because
Sandy, you were sayingsomething earlier when you
talked about how your son wasfailing engineering classes and
you just said barely a Cstudent.
I just had the thought of, Ihad the thought earlier and it's
come back.
If a child is failing somethingacademically, they're not
interested.
It's not because they're notcapable, it's because they're
not interested.
They're either not interestedbecause it's not interesting, or
the adult teaching them is notmaking it interesting.
(39:15):
We are all capable of learningand passing in some way, shape,
or form.
But remember that our educationsystem is analyzing or is
assessing fish on their abilityto climb trees.
That's really what we do,right?
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
And I think I would say at thepoint where you know that it's
absolutely like this is a fact.
So, for example, uh, is yourchild not gonna ever like the
(39:38):
celiac disease is they're gonnabe managing it for the rest of
their lives?
It is a disqualifier, and thensit down, okay.
Here, baby, this is why, right?
It's because they do thesetests to join the military and
they say you, you know, youcan't have conditions like this.
And so that's not gonna happen.
Now, how can we be a dreamdeviator as opposed to a dream
(39:58):
killer, so to speak, right?
So you can't do that, but whenyou when you become 18 or
whatever it is, I promise youwe're gonna have you take flying
lessons.
You might not be a fighterpilot, but you can still learn
how to fly as a hobby.
We can find a different job,right?
I'm saying that because I thinkof myself growing up, I wanted
to be a model so bad.
My mother was like, No, likewhat that is not a job.
(40:19):
And she wouldn't even let me, Iwanted to be a model, I want to
be a dancer, I want to be justlike I like the artsy things,
and I I was a biology major.
And she said, no, it didn'thappen.
And I think of now when peoplejust randomly be like, oh my
gosh, are you a model?
I'm like, no, but I wanted to.
If she just let me do it forfun, I could still have gone the
science route, but at leastthat itch would have been
scratched and it wouldn't havebeen a regret.
(40:40):
So, how can we deviate likethat dream to a hobby and say,
so you can't do this as your jobbecause A, B, and C, but I'm
willing to support your interestin it as a hobby.
We can take classes, we can dosimulations, you can learn, and
that way they don't feel likethe dream was totally killed,
just redirected.
I love that.
Great advice.
Sandy Zamalis (41:01):
So, Dr.
Chega, how would you um helpparents in the aspect of
encouraging uh helping themencourage their children to have
jobs?
Like a not thinking about thecareer side of things.
Um, I think as a parent, I'llum, and definitely in in
hindsight, I'm really thankfulthat my kids have had a lot of
(41:25):
jobs.
Um, they've tried a lot ofthings.
It was um, I feel like COVID inin my uh for my kids was
definitely a little bit of ablessing because it kind of
weirdly smashed the job marketright when they were coming out
of college.
And so they had to just trylots of different things.
Um, and I think between the twoof them, they've had like 10
(41:46):
different jobs in like fouryears.
Like it's been kind of crazy,but they've moved a lot, they've
had these great experiences.
Um, how early would yourecommend, you know, encouraging
your kids to have a job, evenif it's just for that financial
literacy piece or buildingnetworks, um, but not
necessarily, you know, somethingI know as parents, sometimes we
(42:07):
protect our kids from thatbecause they're gonna work their
whole life, but it might begood to incentivize that maybe
earlier to help them shadow.
Dr. Tega Edwin (42:15):
Yep, absolutely.
I was gonna say you just makeit a family culture in this
home.
You can pick any, I don't thinkthere's a specific age I would
recommend.
I think 15 is definitely a goodminimum, depending on the type
of job.
But just saying in this home,we work once we turn 16.
Like it just becomes a mantramantra.
That's what we do.
In this house, we work once weturn.
And it could be like my firstjob was in college.
(42:36):
I started college when I was15, so I was very young.
But it was, I was just, I wasin my residence, like res life.
I just sat at the desk.
I was like the front officeperson, but I got to meet people
that way.
And so it's like that was not ajob that was too big for me
cognitively, right?
It was just filing, organizingthe office, you know, giving
people a tour of the of the umdorm.
That was it.
(42:56):
And so thinking about, I thinkI would say appropriate jobs
like that, where it's notcognizant, it's not too much of
a cognitive load for the childto do the job or physical, even,
right?
I'm not gonna tell you, say youput a 16-year-old to be lifting
big suitcases in an airport.
And so I would say it becomesjust a culture of okay, here's
you're gonna work and and andtelling them the why of it.
(43:18):
Why?
So you can understand what itmeans to you know how adults
live life, so you can get outthere and meet new people, so
you can start making your ownmoney so that I can teach you
how to invest it, teach you howwe do budget.
You you want that game, we'regonna create a budget for it so
you can buy it with your ownmoney.
And again, they might rail pushback against it.
(43:40):
I think of these things I'msaying to you.
If my parents had told me,actually, I wanted to work, my
parents didn't want me to workbecause they wanted me to just
get A's in school.
But there's some other thingsthat I would have been like, I
don't want to do that.
But in hindsight, as an adult,I would have looked back and
said, that actually helped me.
And so that's just part ofbeing a parent is we know that
we make our kids do things thatthey don't want to brush their
teeth, but their teeth will fallout if they don't.
(44:02):
So we make them do it.
And so it's just as long asyou're explaining the why to
them.
This is gonna help you buildskills, it's gonna help you meet
people, help you learn what youlike doing.
And so, is it this summer youwork at Chuck E.
Cheese, and the next summer youwork at an office, and then the
next summer you work at thegym, and then you just see what
did you like, what did you notlike?
It's a way for you to get toknow yourself.
So I think it just becomes afamily culture thing of you and
(44:25):
your partner, you sit down, youpick what age do we think makes
sense for our kids.
I think 15 to 16 is good.
And we just say, okay, we weprep them and you start dropping
those hints from when they're11, right?
Just as jokes, oh, when you're16, you're gonna start making
your money.
I think when they can drive,they can work, right?
And so you just you just startyou you drop the hints five
years out.
Oh, I can't wait for you tostart driving so that you can
(44:45):
pick me up after you come backfrom work.
Just jokes like that so that itbecomes in their head, I'm
going to get a job once I hitthis age.
And so that just becomes a normin the family.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:55):
Yeah, I had we did that in our family.
Um, one of them was 18 beforehe actually got a first job.
But um, it was fun to watch thekids really grow and learn and
see what the dynamics of beingan employee actually feels like
too.
Uh, because that can beshocking to some kids, right?
(45:18):
So, especially if they don'tgrow up in an authoritarian
household, um, it can beshocking to have an
authoritarian boss.
And that's the reality thathappens um out there.
So it's great experiencebecause then you can coach them
through, okay, well, how do youhandle those interactions?
Dr. Tega Edwin (45:37):
Yeah.
And I think you bring up agreat point, Dr.
Amy, of, and I hadn't thoughtabout it, so you said it, as
they're working, creating timeas a family to talk about the
work experience, right?
Using it, okay, what happenedtoday, what was confusing, what
was hard, and creating a spacefor you to then be able to teach
them, okay, they shouldn't havedone that.
Here's how you can advocate foryourself, right?
(45:57):
Or, oh, here's what you couldhave said differently.
So using their work experienceas a way to think of your
question earlier, Sandy, of howdo they build relationships?
If they're at work and you'redebriefing with them maybe two
or three times a week, you cantalk about and hear, okay, where
was their EQ not quite where itneeded to be?
Let me coach them on what theycan do next.
And you're using their work asteaching moments.
Yeah.
unknown (46:18):
Okay.
Sandy Zamalis (46:18):
We offered so much great stuff, Dr.
Tega.
And we're getting close to thetop of the hour.
So I wanted to give you achance to kind of just share
with our listeners anything thatmaybe we didn't hit on that you
want to make sure we drive homefor parents in this um aspect
of helping our kids build thatcareer job mindset for the
future, thinking through thatfluidity.
Dr. Tega Edwin (46:40):
Yeah.
I think I would say that everyparent should assess their own
relationship with and beliefsabout work.
What role do you think workplays in our lives?
What do you believe is possiblein the world of work?
What do you think careers aremeant to be?
Because we are the ones whopass down those messages to our
children.
And so, you know, I think aparent could be listening to
(47:02):
this and think, oh, great, Iwant to give my child options.
I want to make them thinkchange is good.
But if inherently you believethat change is bad and change
makes you a quitter, that's whatyour child is going to hear and
see, no matter how you try tospin it.
So you have to fully embody andbelieve whatever message you
want them to live out, whichmeans you have to do
self-reflection and assessmentof what do I actually believe?
(47:24):
Because that's what you'regoing to pass on to your child,
and that's gonna that's gonna betheir reality.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:30):
Absolutely.
Um, Dr.
Taega, how can our listenersfind you, uh, find more about
you and your work?
Dr. Tega Edwin (47:37):
I'm her career doctor almost everywhere.
My website is her careerdoctor.com.
I spend a lot of time onInstagram.
I'm HerCareer Doctor There.
Um, I have a weekly newsletterwhere I send out strategies
mostly geared towards adults.
But if you go to umcatchupweekly.com, you can join.
But I love having conversationsabout career.
And so if you DM me onInstagram ever, I will
absolutely respond because Ilove this is my favorite topic
(47:59):
to talk about.
Dr. Amy Moore (48:00):
You can tell.
Absolutely.
Um, we appreciate all of youramazing insights and wisdom on a
topic that we just haven'tspent any time on on the show.
And so I hope that um I knowthat our listeners will have
just some amazing takeaways andaha moments.
I know I did from thisconversation.
(48:20):
And we'll put all those linksto your social media and your
website in our show notes.
Dr.
Tega Edwin, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
We really enjoyed having you.
Thank you for having me.
I enjoyed having thisconversation.
All right, listeners, I hopethat you feel a little bit
smarter after spending this hourwith us.
(48:41):
You can find us at the BrainyMoms on Instagram and Facebook
and TikTok and YouTube.
Uh so we would love it if youwould find us there and follow
us.
And until next time.
Hi, Smart Moms and Dads.
I'm Dr.
Amy Moore here with my co-hostSandy Zamalis.
And Sandy and I are superexcited to have a conversation
today with Dr.
Tega Edwin.
Let me tell you a little bitabout Dr.
Tega and why she is here.
She's a counselor educator, alicensed counselor and career
coach who worked as a schoolcounselor helping children,
(00:50):
teens, and families navigatecareer exploration and big life
decisions before transitioningto a career in coaching.
Known as Her Career Doctor, sheequips women to find fulfilling
work for themselves and landhigher-paying jobs that improve
their life satisfaction.
Her work combinesresearch-based career
(01:11):
development strategies withreal-life counseling experience
to make conversations about thefuture less overwhelming and
more empowering for families.
Dr.
Tega is here to talk with ustoday about the best ways for us
to encourage our kids in theirown exploration of careers.
Welcome, Dr.
Tega.
Dr. Tega Edwin (01:31):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to theconversation.
Sandy Zamalis (01:34):
Yeah, we're excited that you're here.
I know so many of our parentsreally need help in this regard
because that this is a hugeoverwhelming topic to try to
figure out the future for theirkids or help guide their kids in
figuring out their future.
So let's jump in and figure outhave you tell our listeners
what is it about this that umkind of spurred you on?
(01:57):
How did you get into thisfield?
Dr. Tega Edwin (01:59):
So my journey started in school.
Well, no, really, my journeystarted when I thought I wanted
to be a medical doctor becauseso I'm Nigerian and so I grew up
in a culture where real jobsvery fitting for this
conversation, real jobs werethings like being a doctor, a
lawyer, an engineer, a nurse,things like that.
So I thought medicine was thepath for me.
And that was more societalpressure, not family pressure.
(02:20):
But I failed the MCAT.
I had started a psychologyminor in my junior year of
college, and then I fell in lovewith psych minor.
And then I took the MCAT, Ithink at the end and failed.
And I was like, okay, this isclearly not the path for me.
But that was how I thenpivoted, just started thinking
about what do I really want todo?
What do I enjoy?
What kind of work do I want todo?
And back then I loved beingaround kids and working with
(02:42):
kids.
So that's how I discoveredcounseling.
And so I went back, got mymaster's in counseling, became a
school counselor.
I worked in apay-by-performance district in
Colorado Springs.
And it was interesting becausefor school counselors, two of
the metrics, well, there werethree total, but two of the
metrics they used to determinecounselors' pay was attendance.
(03:03):
And fifth graders would takethis career test, and how they
performed on this career testwould determine our pay moving
forward.
That was it for counselors.
And so obviously, I was like,wait, what?
I had not been taught aboutthis in my master's program, did
not know what I was doing.
But I really loved schoolcounseling.
I love being around kids.
So even if it was gonna be atest type thing, I still wanted
(03:24):
it to be fun for the kids.
So that's when I started doingexploration for okay, these are
fifth graders, 10, 11-year-olds.
How am I gonna talk to themabout career?
Which is it's not even in therealm of what they are thinking
of right now.
And so my research led me todevelop this program that helped
them really just explorethemselves and who they are and
work.
And I just saw the kids lightup.
Like this was one of the fewplaces where school felt like it
(03:47):
was about them, like they weretalking about themselves.
Some of them would talk aboutwanting to be basketball players
or um, you know, one of thearchaeologists.
It was a really cool project.
But that was how my love forcareer development started.
So when I went to get my PhD,my research was actually in
school-based career development.
Um, and it was in that paththat I became a career counselor
(04:08):
and so pivoted to start workingwith adults.
And then when I became afaculty member, I missed doing
the career work and I stillwanted to help people because
I've just seen how much careerconfusion can really stress
people out.
It doesn't matter the age, itdoesn't matter the generation.
When you don't know what youthink in your head, like I don't
know what I'm doing with mylife, so to speak, it can feel
(04:30):
very stressful.
And so I really love this work.
So that was why I started mycareer coaching business, in
addition to what I do as afaculty.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:37):
I love that.
And I love that you talk aboutthat term career confusion.
You know, before we started theepisode, you mentioned how
we've got kids going to collegeand their prefrontal cortex
isn't even fully developed yet,which makes reasoning really
difficult, right?
It makes weighing all thealternatives really difficult.
(04:57):
So of course you're in thespace of being confused.
And then confusion causesstress, which is then right, an
emotional roller coaster.
Dr. Tega Edwin (05:08):
You said something when you when you
started asking as you know,parents are struggling to help
their kids figure this out.
And I'm like, some parents areeven struggling to figure it out
for themselves.
Like we're just not taught howto make career decisions,
period.
As a society, people expect youto figure it out.
And so I think that's also partof where that stress comes
from.
Sandy Zamalis (05:25):
Yeah, I was gonna add that, you know, I think
some of it's a paradigm shifttoo, right?
Dr.
Take, like careers aren't formany people like a longevity
game.
Like it's it's you know, exceptfor things like doctors,
lawyers, engineers, you know,definitely there's some
longevity there.
For the majority of uh society,a lot of times those jobs are
(05:48):
going to switch and change.
So it's really about figuringout what your skill set is, what
you're good at.
Are you good on your own?
Are you a creative?
Like there's a lot of, I think,uh, discussion that probably
needs to happen around thataspect.
So share with our listenerswhat did you do in that
classroom that really helpedyour students see themselves in
(06:10):
this process of thinking aboutwho they wanted to be when they
grew up.
Dr. Tega Edwin (06:14):
For sure, yes.
So it was a, I want to sayeight-week unit, but I remember
we started with things like thethe biggest one I remember this
was two weeks that really sortof blew their mind was I just
started with this concept ofmultiple intelligences.
And I know that the research ismixed on multiple intelligences
and if people believe in them,but these are 10-year-olds,
(06:35):
right?
Like I was not trying to changetheir world, so to speak.
It was more just okay, youmight not be good at math, but
the fact that you're good atsports matters and is still a
way of being intelligent.
Or for the ones who are good atmusic or the ones who are good
at drawing, right?
So I was I taught them thisconcept of the different eight,
um, the eight types ofintelligences.
(06:56):
And that I believe really sortof blew their mind because I
think a lot of the kids grow uphearing things like, you know,
you have to pass math, reading,science, that's it.
And so they think if I'm notgreat at those things, then I'm
not smart or I'm not good enoughor I don't know what I'm doing.
And so that really, like Isaid, shifted for them what they
(07:18):
thought about what it means tobe an intelligent, capable
person.
And then we started exploringthings like I would talk to them
about their interests.
So, just what kind of things doyou like doing in your free
time, right?
Like, do you like playinggames?
Do you like reading books?
Like, what does that processlook like?
And I think they really foundthat helpful.
(07:38):
So we did, so in Colorado, wehad this career exploration
website.
A lot of states have them.
Here I'm in Missouri now, wehave it too.
And so I just had them do someof these assessments.
There was a Holland, it'scalled the Holland Interest
Survey, but tailored for kids,where they just took an
assessment and it tells them,Oh, are you more of a hands-on
person?
Are you more of a talking topeople person?
(07:59):
Are you more of a research anddata or numbers person?
So we did that.
And then we talked aboutdifferent types of degrees
post-school.
So I was teaching them aboutthings like associate's degree,
bachelor's degree, on-the-jobtraining.
And I remember this one, theyreally enjoyed this because I
used Legos to show like theLegos were numbers of years.
(08:21):
And so we were using it's okay,how long does an associate
degree take?
Two blue Legos, but abachelor's degree can take, you
know, four blue Legos.
It was just again ways to makeit hands-on for them to just
conceptualize that.
And then we talked about careerclusters.
And this was something that Ialready had a poster in my
office, but just again, helpingthem see the different places
that um you can work in terms ofwhen we think about clustering
(08:44):
it, whether it's the medical uhfield, retail, just helping them
see the nine different careerclusters that exist, again, to
expand their horizon.
And that's because the researchshows us that by fifth grade,
most children have alreadystarted eliminating career
options based on two factors,gender and prestige.
Gender meaning if they seephysical, just how people
(09:07):
present.
So if in their brains they seeall their doctors are men, their
brain tells them only men canbe doctors.
If they see physically allnurses are women, their brain
tells them only women can benurses.
So then a little boy who wantsto be a nurse might look at, so
again, at that age, that they'restill very binary in their
thinking.
So might look at a nurse andthink, oh, I can't be a nurse
(09:30):
because I haven't seen one wholooks like me.
That's the gender piece.
And then prestige, what theresearch shows is based on how
adults around them talk aboutjobs, how they treat people
around them, they start todecide which jobs are worth
pursuing or not.
So, for example, if you're in afamily where you hear them
talking crap about your jenderas a child, your brain says, Oh,
(09:51):
that's not a good enough jobfor me.
You eliminate it.
So there's a theory, it'scalled Gottfurton's theory,
which is a bit controversialbecause her research kind of
went off the rails when it comesto race later on in her life.
But there's been enoughempirical evidence for the first
part of that study to show thatby fifth grade, children are
(10:11):
eliminating options based ongender and prestige.
Then we see that by highschool, they are now eliminating
based on what they think istheir effort level.
I'm not smart enough for amedical degree, so doctor's not
good enough.
I can't be a doctor.
I don't have the tolerance toum go for a master's degree, so
I'm not gonna be an engineer.
So really we see thatthroughout is we call this the
(10:33):
process of circumscription andcompromise.
Children are throughout theirlives, they are compromising
based on what they see aroundthem.
The reason why I share that isso for me, at that elementary
school level, what researchshows is it's all about
exposure.
It's not about decision makingat all.
It's just see as many differentjobs, see as many different
kinds of people doing as manydifferent kinds of jobs as
(10:55):
possible so that your braindoesn't tell you you can't do
something.
So that's why for me, then Iwas doing like that career
clusters, because it was like,especially because I was working
in a um high, free, and reducedmeal school district.
So a lot of my kids were notreally exposed.
So if you've never seen that atruck driver can make good
money, you might think that'snot a good enough job.
(11:15):
So showing you what thesedifferent clusters of work look
like is what I was aiming for.
And so we spent a couple ofweeks talking about the career
clusters.
Um, I forgot to say that at thebeginning of the unit, I also
just explained to them thedifference between a job and a
career so they could wrap theirminds around it.
And then we ended with a careerfair.
So, you know how back they usedto do the science fairs with
the trifold board.
(11:36):
So throughout the research,there were research and options.
They would pick a job and thenresearch, and they built each
built like a trifold board forone career and put all this
information on it.
And we had it in the library,parents came to look at it.
We matched it with like themusical night, and it was really
just a fun process of themlearning about themselves and
learning about just differentoptions that are available out
there.
So that was what I did withthem.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:57):
So I love that you made that distinction that
at the elementary school level,it's about exposure, right?
That we're not actually puttingpressure on them.
Like you, in fact, say, don'task kids what do you want to be
when you grow up, right?
Um but I love the idea ofimmersing kids in um, you know,
experiences where they can seeall of those different career
(12:21):
options.
And I would think, and is yourrecommendation that they should
see non-traditional gender rolesin the jobs?
Like, for example, my husbandis a nurse.
He's a male nurse, right?
So, like I would think heshould go speak at a career fair
so that boys know that thereare lots of male nurses out
(12:42):
there.
Dr. Tega Edwin (12:43):
Absolutely.
So when we think about physicalcultural identities, race,
gender, disability status, wereally want kids to see
different types of people doingdifferent types of job so that
their brain doesn't link aspecific identity to a specific
job.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:59):
Yeah, I like that.
So you say that careers arefluid, not final.
And I think we started talkingabout that.
Normalize that.
Dr. Tega Edwin (13:12):
Tell us why that's okay.
Yeah, because even Sandy, whenyou said, you know, some jobs
have longevity, like maybedoctor, lawyer, engineer.
I was like, I have three lawyerclients right now who are
making a career pivot.
Nothing is long anymore.
It's gonna say longevity.
I always say I can make upwords, I have a PhD, but nothing
has longevity anymore.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:32):
We're experts when we have a PhD.
We're allowed to make up thosewords.
Dr. Tega Edwin (13:36):
I can make up a word, it's not longevity.
But so the thing, the thing isa lot of us who are parents now
grew up under a generation whowas taught that work was
something that you did for 20years.
Like you work until you retireor you die.
Literally, those were your onlyoptions.
You work to put food on thetable, you work to pay the
(13:59):
bills.
That was like work had afunction, keep you alive, feed
you, contribute to society, anddo one thing.
Go to college, get a degree, doone thing related to that
degree until you can't do itanymore.
That I think served them forthe generation that they were
in, so to speak, but that's notthe world we live in anymore.
Now people desire fulfillment,people desire impact, people
(14:21):
desire satisfaction, people arerecognizing, and I this is
something I say when I teach acareer counseling class, and I
always talk about how we spendmost of our awakening hours at
work.
The at best, you're doing 40hours.
Most people work more than 40hours.
Over your adult lifetime,that's 90,000 hours that you
spend at work.
People are realizing they don'twant to be miserable for 90,000
(14:44):
hours of their lives.
And so work is no longer justthis functional thing, it's a
form of expression.
People now want to work toexpress themselves.
The thing though is we aspeople are not stagnant.
So the thing that you canexpress yourself with when
you're in your 20s might bedifferent when you're in your
30s, might be different as youremember in 40s, 50s, because
your values change, yourinterests change, you learn new
(15:06):
skills, you develop newinterests, interests, all that
changes.
And so, as you as an individualgrow and change, the kind of
work that satisfies you is alsogoing to grow and change.
But most of us haven't beensocialized to think about work
that way.
We socialize that change isbad, change is given up, change
means you're a quitter.
And so we might try to stickout a bad job, try to prove that
(15:27):
we can do it, even when we'refeeling miserable.
And unfortunately, our childrensee that.
They see that you come hometired from work, they see that
you're complaining about workwith your loved ones every day,
they see that you arecomplaining about your boss,
they see that you don't havetime to spend with them because
work is so busy.
And so they internalize thatwork is just we do this one
thing, we pick it and we go.
And so if you want to breakthat cycle, we have to have that
(15:49):
conversation with kids of, youknow, you pick something that
you will enjoy for this for oneseason of your life.
But if in another season youfind something else is inter is
interesting, you can make achange.
It's all about having the skillset to make that change, all
about knowing how to pivot.
And so work very much is fluidbecause we as people are fluid.
And most of the times, one ofthe when I look at my work with
(16:11):
women, the thing that keeps alot of women dissatisfied is
they've stayed too long in whatI call a job that's expired
because it doesn't fit youanymore.
It doesn't match who you are inthis season of your life.
You started this job when youwere a single 20-something year
old and you could grind and doall that.
Now you're a mother who hasdifferent values, different
priorities, and the workplacehasn't shifted to match that.
(16:32):
So that's why that tension nowexists because you're not
expressing yourself as who youreally authentically are right
now in this season of your life.
Sandy Zamalis (16:42):
How do we prepare our teenagers and like young
college kids for that kind offluidity?
Because our systems aren't setup for that.
They're not, they're not not atall.
I mean, very much about puttingthe time, grind, grind, grind.
Um, so what would be yoursuggestion for parents there?
How do we help prep them forthis kind of fluid mindset?
Dr. Tega Edwin (17:05):
I think conversations from a young age.
This is why I said that.
They're not asking that what doyou want to be when you grow
up?
One of the reasons why I saidat the beginning I want to be a
medical doctor was because whenI was, I think, 10, I said I was
gonna be a pediatrician and Icould not let that go.
I literally, like, that's why Iall the way to college, I said
I'm gonna be a doctor.
So I'm going to be a doctor.
I don't want to disappoint myparents.
(17:25):
I've been talking about this,I've told everybody what I'm
gonna do.
If I quit now, it's bad, right?
The thing about conversation islike instead of what do you
want to be when you grow up,what do you enjoy doing?
What thing makes you feel likeyou could do it for if you could
do one thing for the wholeweekend, what would that one
thing be?
And you, as the parents,studying your kids.
(17:45):
So, for example, if I think ofmy nephews right now, I have one
nephew who literally he'll justhe'll make comic books.
He said, Ante Take, do you wantto read my comic book?
And I'm like, this is an artskid.
He loves to dance, he loves todraw.
If we make this child go intoscience, I will fight the world
because that is not his path,right?
But just observing those typesof things about what is the
thing that when you leave yourchild alone, they do it on their
(18:08):
own.
And then are there ways for youto invest in that, whether it's
a class, you sitting down withthem, but just exploring it
without any pressure.
If they get tired of it, it'sfine.
Don't say, Oh, you stoppeddrawing.
No, it's okay, what's the newthing that you're interested in?
So when we teach them early onthat their interest can change,
they internalize that so thatwhen they're adults, they'll
realize that their interest canchange, right?
(18:29):
So if my nephew stops drawingright now, and I go and I say,
Oh, but your comic books were sogreat.
Why did you stop?
You could have gotten better.
That is a subliminal message ofyou're not good because you
stopped, right?
You could have gotten better,so now you're getting worse
because you stopped the thing,as opposed to, oh, what are you
interested in now?
Why do you like it?
What do you enjoy about it?
And then you start to learn,okay, what are the things that
(18:51):
your child is gravitatingtowards?
And you're you're plantingseeds that change doesn't make
you a quitter.
Change does mean change justmeans that you understand
yourself and you know how tomove with the tides internally,
so to speak.
So that's like I think earlylevel.
I think another bigconversation that we need to
switch is the college pipelineis terrible, right?
But we can't change thatsystem.
(19:12):
So, how do we work in it?
Think about sitting with yourkid before college and having a
conversation, like if theychoose college, right?
So, first of all, I should saypre-that, ask them if they want
to go to college, right?
A lot of us who already went tocollege assume that it's the
only way our children can besuccessful.
It's the only way that they canbe financially stable.
But I always remember when Iwas a school counselor, I used
(19:34):
to say, I have a master's degreeand truck drivers make more
than I do.
Right.
So it's it's not just about thedegree, it's about if you know
what their interests are, thenyou might know that, oh, the
best way for you to besuccessful in what you have said
you kind of are interested inis going to be a degree.
For some other child, it mightbe on-the-job training.
It just depends on thoseinterests that you've observed.
(19:55):
So, okay, do they want to do afigure out two-year degree,
on-the-job training, four-yeardegree?
What is it?
But then after that, even whenthey're going to college, giving
them that opportunity to say,okay, uh, what kind of subjects
were you enjoying in high inwhen you were in high school?
And how can they take thatfirst year, just that first
year, to explore a few differentclasses to see what did you
(20:16):
like learning about?
What did you enjoy before youpick a major?
A lot of institutions will letum kids go at least a year
undeclared before they declare amajor.
And so let them explore and youuh sort of give them that
message of if you stop likebeing interested in this topic,
that's fine.
You can still finish thedegree, but we can find like you
can find jobs that are notdirectly related to your degree.
(20:39):
I think what we see happeningis uh let's say a child starts
chemistry and they realize theyhate me.
I majored in biology and Ifailed OCAM and I was like, I
hate this.
But I thought I couldn'tchange, right?
I have to do this.
So I minored in psychology.
Okay, but I didn't do anything.
I'm, you know, I went to adifferent degree path.
But some other child would havethought, oh, I have to now
(20:59):
change my major to do somethingthat I want to do.
But the problem with that isthe more you change your major,
the longer you stay in school.
The longer you stay in school,the more debt you're racking up,
right?
So if we let them know, okay,no, as long as you get that
degree, if you're doing afour-year degree as soon as
possible, we can figure out howto market your skills for
something else, right?
Don't rack up this debt that'sgonna be weight on your back.
(21:20):
But more often than not, ifthey've explored classes, at
least in that first year,they'll have a sense of, I
didn't like the science ones,but I like the art ones, I like
the writing ones.
Maybe I want to major inEnglish.
Okay, now let's sit down.
What can what are the options?
That's the other thing that'smissing.
What are the options that areavailable with this degree that
you have?
Um, I can't think of it now,but I will think of it and share
(21:41):
it with you all post the postour recording.
But there was a website.
Oh, it's called What Can I Dowith This Major?
When I worked as a careercounselor on um a college
campus, that we used to use thatwebsite because it'll take a
major and show you all thedifferent types of jobs you can
do with it.
It'll show you the professionalassociations tied to that job
so that kids have this mindsetof, okay, even if I'm getting
(22:03):
this degree, the world can stillopen up to me.
It's all about options.
I still have options.
I don't have to, because I didscience, be a doctor.
Because I did engineering, bean engineer.
No, there are options.
And because we as adults aren'tsocialized to think that way,
we often can't help our kids dothat.
So send them to the careerservices center, look up
resources on your own.
(22:24):
Um, I just thought of anotherone.
It's called CUDER, K-U-D-E-R.
It's career exploration butgamified.
So kids can play games, butthey're learning about careers,
learning about themselves.
So I think this really comesdown to conversations about
options and that fluidity whileyou are also observing your
child.
You're observing what they'reinterested in, what excites them
(22:46):
without you getting stuck inone thing.
I've seen that happen withparents where, but they said
they wanted to be a doctor.
They have to be a doctor.
No, they changed their mind andthat's okay.
You have to model for them thatchanging their mind is okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:00):
Okay.
I like I almost cried a minuteago.
Um, as you were normalizingthis idea of um, this is who you
are in this season, and that'sokay.
Or just because you have thisdegree doesn't mean you have to
work in that career fieldbecause that could be applicable
to others, right?
(23:20):
And so um, you know, I was acareer changer, and so um my mom
always blamed that on my ADHDthat I didn't stick with the
same thing.
And then I kept switching.
In fact, I overheard aconversation uh that she was
having with my aunt once.
Well, why is she doing that?
(23:41):
Well, because she has ADHD andshe can't stay with one thing.
And in my mind, I was movingforward.
I was doing something new andexciting and in a way that I
could help a bigger number ofpeople, right?
Like, and so to be able to hearthat like we should celebrate
(24:02):
that rather than shaking ourheads and you know, blaming that
on um a lack of sticktoativeness.
So I appreciate that youabsolutely bring that up.
And I also love this idea ofcollege is so expensive.
College is so expensive.
And so you've got a kid who'slike changes their major three
(24:23):
or four times and you're justseeing dollar signs, right?
Every time your kid comes homeand says, Oh, I didn't like
that, I'm gonna change my major.
And so to be able to redirectthem to, okay, look how many
credits you've already, youknow, finished.
How can we compromise?
Like, how can you use whatyou've already done to in this
(24:44):
career path um so that we don'tspend an inordinate, an
ordinary?
See, I'm now I'm making upwords.
Hey, an enormous amount ofmoney uh while you figure all of
this out.
I can remember when I was incollege as a psychology major, I
was um uh waiting tables and Ihad this table of eight
(25:05):
businessmen, um, and they wereasking about me.
And I said, I'm a psych major.
And six of those eightbusinessmen, they were bankers,
all had psych degrees.
And they laughed at me and theysaid, Maybe you can be a banker
like us.
And like they graduated andrealized, okay, I don't want to
be a psychologist with thisdegree, but where can this be
(25:26):
applicable?
And oh my goodness, the skillsthat you learn understanding
human behavior are absolutelyapplicable in banking, right?
These are people who aredealing with their money and
their finances and what are theygonna invest in, right?
And so those skills wereapplicable to them.
I always laughed.
I'm like, no, I'm not gonna bea banker like the other psych
(25:46):
majors, but anyway, yeah.
unknown (25:49):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:50):
And let me go ahead, Sandy.
Sandy Zamalis (25:52):
Oh no, I was gonna say the only thing I
wanted to add to that too,because I mean, I think we've
all been there, right?
I mean, I definitely, you know,I was I shared that story about
how we had to have anintervention with my son in
engineering school because hewas failing and he wouldn't, for
whatever reason, he was lockedin um and would not bail.
And so we were like, I thinkit's time to bail.
(26:14):
I don't think this is yourcalling, not because you're
failing, because it's just itisn't who you are.
Like this doesn't push you,like there's something else
you've locked in here, and it'snot that because this is your
passion, right?
Like, so we were trying to uhget him uh resorted and and it
worked out well.
But we, you know, he was inschool longer.
I remember those, you know,long conversations with my
(26:36):
husband.
He was panicking about themoney, and and you know, my
theory at the time was you know,the way our system is set up,
which is kind of why I calledthat out a minute ago, is that
our kids just don't have thoseopportunities to do internships
and to get those experiencesanymore.
So I would rather him fail incollege and have it be a little
(26:59):
costly for him to figure out whohe is and figure out, you know,
what path he needs to go andbuild some resilience.
Because up until that point,he'd never failed anything.
So I think he kind of neededthat to like struggle a little
bit so he could figure out howto get more in alignment with
who he was.
Um, but then I also remember,and maybe you can speak to this,
(27:20):
Dr.
Tega, you know, there's also abattle, like it's a you know,
generational thing, a battle of,oh, well, you can't pay rent
with a job like that, or youknow, like, you know, how do we
overcome that?
Um, that any stigma or youknow, incorrect beliefs we have
about careers, because you'reright, the career landscape has
(27:41):
changed.
There are more creatives thatare, you know, able to be in the
workspace than ever before.
So any of those artistic piecesin music or art, there's more
space in the business and careerwork career world for them now
than there ever has been.
Um, so how do you help parentsor help kids kind of wrap their
brains around that piece to justpush that away?
(28:03):
That yes, you actually may beable to pay rent with this
career that you love or thinkingthat you're gonna love down the
line.
Dr. Tega Edwin (28:11):
Yeah.
So there's three things I and Iwrote them now that I want to
talk about first, um, with theexposure, because you talked
about internships can be harderto get, which is true.
However, as adults, we stillhave networks where we can help
get our students opportunitiesto shadow people.
So that's another way incollege, if you can start from
in fact high school, where it'sjust follow a doctor around,
follow a banker around, followan engineer around.
(28:33):
Just see again a differentlevel of exposure where we're
not just talking about it, butyou're seeing their day-to-day
as another way to help them inthat decision-making process of
that looked like a terrible day.
I don't want to do that job,but that looked like a fun day.
I might be interested in that.
And then also thinking aboutlanguage in a few different
ways.
So, for example, if I think ofyour son, I know you said it
(28:53):
worked out.
So back then, one thing I wouldsay is so for if I think of the
word, for example, passion,kids have a hard time, but kids
don't know what that meansbecause they're not old enough
to have a passion, candidly.
Like they have interest, butnot passions.
And so, even thinking about ifif a parent listening is
thinking, oh, my son or my childis in that situation right now,
asking questions like, okay,you're locked into engineering.
But let me ask you this (29:16):
what do you like doing in your free
time?
What makes you feel happy?
What makes you feel good?
What do you enjoy doing?
Let's just have a conversation,just tell us about you and what
you enjoy.
And then you, as the parent,just listening, and then you're
and then you're listening forpatterns.
And saying something like,okay, Bob, Bobby, as I'm hearing
you talk, none of that soundedlike an engineer, babe.
(29:38):
Like I'm hearing like an artistor somebody who wants to dance.
What do you like?
And you being light about theconversation.
That way they know it's morewe're just talking about you.
And like, maybe I didn't hearan engineer there.
I heard an artist.
So what's up with thisengineering thing?
Tell me about it.
Because maybe there's people incollege telling him that if he
quits his a failure.
Maybe a teacher had said, ifyou're not an engineer, you're
(29:58):
not good enough, right?
Because sometimes we don't knowhow the other adults are
influencing them.
That makes them locked intothat path.
And so we need to be adifferent voice in their lives
and opening it up to okay, tellme about you, tell me about who
you are.
And I'm listening for patternsso that I can then feed back
what I've heard you say.
So I wanted to share those twothings.
Um, and then to answer yourquestion.
(30:19):
But I had thought about thiswhen we were talking earlier.
A lot of times, even as adults,uh, one of the biggest things
that keep us uh stuck insituations we don't like is
lacking.
Of financial stability.
And so candidly, and I wasgonna say this earlier a good
way to get that thought of Ican't pay rent with this out of
your child's head is to improvetheir financial literacy early
(30:43):
on.
So it's it's it's not directlycareer related, but I think
that's just the foundation of.
I remember like I was tellingmy husband just recently, I was
like, one thing that I'm mad atmy dad for, because he was an
accountant, right?
He was a banker.
And I started working incollege.
And I'm like, why did he nevertell me about it?
Did he have a psych degree?
No, he did not.
He did not have a financedegree.
But I remember saying he wasinvesting, he was getting
(31:05):
dividends.
Why didn't he just tell me as akid, even just make me, I would
have been mad, but just say $20from your paycheck has to go
into the stock market.
Like, I don't care what you dowith the rest, but you have to
invest this $20.
I would have been mad as achild.
I know that.
But now as an adult, I would beso grateful because that money
would have grown exponentially.
And so, how do we from youngstart teaching our kids about
(31:27):
investing, about budgeting,about saving?
Because if they at least have afinancial safety net, they're
more likely to explore.
Most times we lose our wonder,we lose our exploration because
of the reality of I have billsto pay and I do have a rent to
pay.
So that's like an addition ofhow can you help your child just
learn about finances andfinances and build a financial
(31:47):
safety net.
And then for the one, okay, Iwant to be a creative, I got to
pay rent.
Can you find creatives who arepaying rent that they can talk
to?
Right?
Remember, it's all about thatpossibility model.
They have to see it.
So not a superstar, but a reallife person who's leaving living
day to day, how are they makingit work?
Right.
And having them have thatconversation with someone who
(32:08):
can say, Oh, here's what I did,here's how it worked, here's
what didn't work.
And then they can think, okay,do I want to go down this path?
Or, okay, maybe I'm gonna givethem options.
I'm always about the options.
You can work on your art whileyou work at Starbucks or work at
you know a grocery store,whatever it is.
Like you can get the money insomewhere, but just because it's
not paying now doesn't mean youhave to give up on that dream.
(32:30):
It's gonna be hard work for afew years.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest,it's gonna be hard work for a
few years.
But if this is what you want todo, it's gonna pay off.
Oftentimes, parents don't givechildren that possibility.
We are scared of our kidsliving out on the street.
So we want them to get what wethink is a stable job.
So we don't want them to worktwo jobs, right?
Because to us, it's not gonnawork.
So we don't let them make thosemistakes or do that
(32:50):
exploration.
And so I think even encouragingthat process um can help kids
move through that mindset.
As is if we don't feed it tothem, they will not internalize
it.
Dr. Amy Moore (33:02):
Okay, so what do you say to the teen or young
adult who is actually having theopposite thought?
That they don't want tomonetize their hobby.
They don't want to take whatthey love, that they're so good
at, that they do for fun.
They're afraid to turn it intoa career because then they're
(33:24):
afraid they'll end up hating it,that they'll get sick of it if
they have to do it.
Speak to that.
Dr. Tega Edwin (33:30):
Yeah, then we I say, what else are you
interested in?
So we are none of us as humanbeings are single.
We're all multifaceted.
We're not one-dimensional.
So, yes, you might have onehobby that you love and you
don't want to monetize.
That's good.
Keep it as a hobby.
You probably have other thingsyou're interested in too that
you could work in, even asadults.
So, what are other things thatyou like learning about that you
(33:52):
like doing?
And can we find a job?
Let's keep your hobby a hobby.
Let's find something else thatyou enjoy and explore that as
career options.
We can give them that optionof, okay, that's fine.
You know, you have multiplehobbies, let's pick a different
one that we can see how you canmonetize.
Sandy Zamalis (34:07):
I love how you alluded to the shadowing and how
parents really need to engagetheir own networks because um, I
think I love the financialliteracy piece, but talk a
little more about building thosenetworks because building
networks is really important.
And it's also a piece that wedo not teach our kids.
Um you have to meet people,learn how to meet people, learn
(34:31):
how to um engage with people sothat you get to have more
experiences and you can do theseshadowing kinds of pieces.
More hiring is done fromconnection than from you know
paper job descriptions.
unknown (34:45):
Yeah.
Dr. Tega Edwin (34:46):
I think first it would be us as the adults have
to be curious about other peopleand what they do.
Like wherever I go, and this isjust the career coaching me,
I'm always asking people abouttheir jobs, not what they do,
but just what do you do daily?
Because I'm just curious, Ilike to know what jobs are out
there.
Sometimes people will look atme like, why are you asking
this?
I'm like, I'm a career coach, Ijust like to know these things.
But then I learn about jobs Ididn't know existed.
And so I don't think everyadult is that way.
(35:08):
Because most of us hate ourjobs, we don't like to talk
about it.
It's it's it's not a dinnertable conversation unless we're
complaining.
And so, how can you, as anadult, be willing to engage
other adults to learn, whetheryou are at the coffee shop or at
the grocery store or whatever,just oh, I mean, sort of, how do
you spend your days?
And that's how you can ask thequestion instead of what do you
do, right?
How do you spend your days?
And you can say, you know, Ihave a teenager that I'm trying,
(35:30):
you can give them the context,right?
I have a teenager that I'mtrying to expose to different
jobs.
So I've just been trying tolearn more about what's out
there, and then you askingfriends, right?
You know, it's oh, I know youdo blank, Bobby's going to
college in two years.
I want him to learn as manyoptions as possible.
Would it be okay if he came towork with you for one day or for
half a day or a couple of hoursjust to see what you do?
(35:50):
Give him a taste of you knowwhat work looks like.
And so it's you leveragingthose relationships.
And then before your child isgoing into the spaces, you
teaching them aboutprofessionalism, about how to
have conversations, aboutthanking people, about building
relationships, about beingemotionally intelligent, right?
Like teaching them those skillsfor how do you ask questions?
(36:10):
Let's write down threequestions.
What okay, you're going inhere.
What do you want to know aboutthese jobs?
Write them down.
Okay, make sure you find timeto ask.
Here's how you can tell when,like, if if they're talking to
somebody else, wait for them tofinish talking before you ask.
Wait for when you're alone,like teaching them social
interactions so that as and andmaybe saying, When you come home
this evening, I want you totell me three things you noticed
(36:32):
about how people talk to eachother at that office, so that
then you're giving them homeworkof not just learning, but
watching interactions so thatthey also know how to build
those professional relationshipsin the future.
Also, if they do go thetraditional education route, a
lot of institutions will donetworking events.
They'll have career service,like a career services office
(36:52):
that does networking events thatbrings recruiters in, that
teaches them professionalism.
I can't tell you how when Iworked as a career counselor on
a college campus, how many timesit was hilarious.
Kids would be like ongraduation, on their way out,
they'll park their car in frontof our office, run in and say, I
need help finding a job.
So you've been here for fouryears and you never once came
(37:14):
in.
And on the last day, you'resaying you need help.
And that's not to shade them.
They didn't know the serviceexisted.
They didn't know that offer waspossible, right?
Like that we offered thatservice.
But ideally, the adults intheir life should have known and
said, Hey, go talk to thecareer counselor and see what
they say about picking a major,right?
Or when you're doing the, youknow, college, college campus
(37:36):
visit, asking, do you have acareer services center?
How do you support children inmaking decisions?
You, as the adult, asking thesequestions and then pushing your
kid to use those servicesbecause it's included in that
really expensive tuition anyway.
So they should leverage it.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:51):
I love that.
Okay, let's talk about being adream killer.
And at what point in ourchild's life do we become the
dream killer?
For example, uh, you've got akid who has aspirations for
being a fighter pilot, but theyhave an autoimmune disease.
So they won't be able to be inthe military, right?
(38:12):
So, I mean, that happened in myhouse, right?
I mean, my husband is a formerfighter pilot.
So one of my kids really wantedto do that as well, but he has
celiac disease, which is anautomatic disqualifier.
So at what point would it havebeen appropriate for me to say,
not gonna happen?
I'm gonna have to smash thatdream?
(38:33):
Or what if you've got a kid whowants to be an astronaut, but
they're barely a C student?
Like there's no way thatthey're gonna get into a
military academy, become anofficer, and get to be the
0.001% who actually gets to bethe astronaut.
How do we handle situationslike that?
unknown (38:52):
Yeah.
Dr. Tega Edwin (38:53):
You know, I'm glad you brought that up because
Sandy, you were sayingsomething earlier when you
talked about how your son wasfailing engineering classes and
you just said barely a Cstudent.
I just had the thought of, Ihad the thought earlier and it's
come back.
If a child is failing somethingacademically, they're not
interested.
It's not because they're notcapable, it's because they're
not interested.
They're either not interestedbecause it's not interesting, or
the adult teaching them is notmaking it interesting.
(39:15):
We are all capable of learningand passing in some way, shape,
or form.
But remember that our educationsystem is analyzing or is
assessing fish on their abilityto climb trees.
That's really what we do,right?
So I just wanted to throw thatout there.
And I think I would say at thepoint where you know that it's
absolutely like this is a fact.
So, for example, uh, is yourchild not gonna ever like the
(39:38):
celiac disease is they're gonnabe managing it for the rest of
their lives?
It is a disqualifier, and thensit down, okay.
Here, baby, this is why, right?
It's because they do thesetests to join the military and
they say you, you know, youcan't have conditions like this.
And so that's not gonna happen.
Now, how can we be a dreamdeviator as opposed to a dream
(39:58):
killer, so to speak, right?
So you can't do that, but whenyou when you become 18 or
whatever it is, I promise youwe're gonna have you take flying
lessons.
You might not be a fighterpilot, but you can still learn
how to fly as a hobby.
We can find a different job,right?
I'm saying that because I thinkof myself growing up, I wanted
to be a model so bad.
My mother was like, No, likewhat that is not a job.
(40:19):
And she wouldn't even let me, Iwanted to be a model, I want to
be a dancer, I want to be justlike I like the artsy things,
and I I was a biology major.
And she said, no, it didn'thappen.
And I think of now when peoplejust randomly be like, oh my
gosh, are you a model?
I'm like, no, but I wanted to.
If she just let me do it forfun, I could still have gone the
science route, but at leastthat itch would have been
scratched and it wouldn't havebeen a regret.
(40:40):
So, how can we deviate likethat dream to a hobby and say,
so you can't do this as your jobbecause A, B, and C, but I'm
willing to support your interestin it as a hobby.
We can take classes, we can dosimulations, you can learn, and
that way they don't feel likethe dream was totally killed,
just redirected.
I love that.
Great advice.
Sandy Zamalis (41:01):
So, Dr.
Chega, how would you um helpparents in the aspect of
encouraging uh helping themencourage their children to have
jobs?
Like a not thinking about thecareer side of things.
Um, I think as a parent, I'llum, and definitely in in
hindsight, I'm really thankfulthat my kids have had a lot of
(41:25):
jobs.
Um, they've tried a lot ofthings.
It was um, I feel like COVID inin my uh for my kids was
definitely a little bit of ablessing because it kind of
weirdly smashed the job marketright when they were coming out
of college.
And so they had to just trylots of different things.
Um, and I think between the twoof them, they've had like 10
(41:46):
different jobs in like fouryears.
Like it's been kind of crazy,but they've moved a lot, they've
had these great experiences.
Um, how early would yourecommend, you know, encouraging
your kids to have a job, evenif it's just for that financial
literacy piece or buildingnetworks, um, but not
necessarily, you know, somethingI know as parents, sometimes we
(42:07):
protect our kids from thatbecause they're gonna work their
whole life, but it might begood to incentivize that maybe
earlier to help them shadow.
Dr. Tega Edwin (42:15):
Yep, absolutely.
I was gonna say you just makeit a family culture in this
home.
You can pick any, I don't thinkthere's a specific age I would
recommend.
I think 15 is definitely a goodminimum, depending on the type
of job.
But just saying in this home,we work once we turn 16.
Like it just becomes a mantramantra.
That's what we do.
In this house, we work once weturn.
And it could be like my firstjob was in college.
(42:36):
I started college when I was15, so I was very young.
But it was, I was just, I wasin my residence, like res life.
I just sat at the desk.
I was like the front officeperson, but I got to meet people
that way.
And so it's like that was not ajob that was too big for me
cognitively, right?
It was just filing, organizingthe office, you know, giving
people a tour of the of the umdorm.
That was it.
(42:56):
And so thinking about, I thinkI would say appropriate jobs
like that, where it's notcognizant, it's not too much of
a cognitive load for the childto do the job or physical, even,
right?
I'm not gonna tell you, say youput a 16-year-old to be lifting
big suitcases in an airport.
And so I would say it becomesjust a culture of okay, here's
you're gonna work and and andtelling them the why of it.
(43:18):
Why?
So you can understand what itmeans to you know how adults
live life, so you can get outthere and meet new people, so
you can start making your ownmoney so that I can teach you
how to invest it, teach you howwe do budget.
You you want that game, we'regonna create a budget for it so
you can buy it with your ownmoney.
And again, they might rail pushback against it.
(43:40):
I think of these things I'msaying to you.
If my parents had told me,actually, I wanted to work, my
parents didn't want me to workbecause they wanted me to just
get A's in school.
But there's some other thingsthat I would have been like, I
don't want to do that.
But in hindsight, as an adult,I would have looked back and
said, that actually helped me.
And so that's just part ofbeing a parent is we know that
we make our kids do things thatthey don't want to brush their
teeth, but their teeth will fallout if they don't.
(44:02):
So we make them do it.
And so it's just as long asyou're explaining the why to
them.
This is gonna help you buildskills, it's gonna help you meet
people, help you learn what youlike doing.
And so, is it this summer youwork at Chuck E.
Cheese, and the next summer youwork at an office, and then the
next summer you work at thegym, and then you just see what
did you like, what did you notlike?
It's a way for you to get toknow yourself.
So I think it just becomes afamily culture thing of you and
(44:25):
your partner, you sit down, youpick what age do we think makes
sense for our kids.
I think 15 to 16 is good.
And we just say, okay, we weprep them and you start dropping
those hints from when they're11, right?
Just as jokes, oh, when you're16, you're gonna start making
your money.
I think when they can drive,they can work, right?
And so you just you just startyou you drop the hints five
years out.
Oh, I can't wait for you tostart driving so that you can
(44:45):
pick me up after you come backfrom work.
Just jokes like that so that itbecomes in their head, I'm
going to get a job once I hitthis age.
And so that just becomes a normin the family.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:55):
Yeah, I had we did that in our family.
Um, one of them was 18 beforehe actually got a first job.
But um, it was fun to watch thekids really grow and learn and
see what the dynamics of beingan employee actually feels like
too.
Uh, because that can beshocking to some kids, right?
(45:18):
So, especially if they don'tgrow up in an authoritarian
household, um, it can beshocking to have an
authoritarian boss.
And that's the reality thathappens um out there.
So it's great experiencebecause then you can coach them
through, okay, well, how do youhandle those interactions?
Dr. Tega Edwin (45:37):
Yeah.
And I think you bring up agreat point, Dr.
Amy, of, and I hadn't thoughtabout it, so you said it, as
they're working, creating timeas a family to talk about the
work experience, right?
Using it, okay, what happenedtoday, what was confusing, what
was hard, and creating a spacefor you to then be able to teach
them, okay, they shouldn't havedone that.
Here's how you can advocate foryourself, right?
(45:57):
Or, oh, here's what you couldhave said differently.
So using their work experienceas a way to think of your
question earlier, Sandy, of howdo they build relationships?
If they're at work and you'redebriefing with them maybe two
or three times a week, you cantalk about and hear, okay, where
was their EQ not quite where itneeded to be?
Let me coach them on what theycan do next.
And you're using their work asteaching moments.
Yeah.
unknown (46:18):
Okay.
Sandy Zamalis (46:18):
We offered so much great stuff, Dr.
Tega.
And we're getting close to thetop of the hour.
So I wanted to give you achance to kind of just share
with our listeners anything thatmaybe we didn't hit on that you
want to make sure we drive homefor parents in this um aspect
of helping our kids build thatcareer job mindset for the
future, thinking through thatfluidity.
Dr. Tega Edwin (46:40):
Yeah.
I think I would say that everyparent should assess their own
relationship with and beliefsabout work.
What role do you think workplays in our lives?
What do you believe is possiblein the world of work?
What do you think careers aremeant to be?
Because we are the ones whopass down those messages to our
children.
And so, you know, I think aparent could be listening to
(47:02):
this and think, oh, great, Iwant to give my child options.
I want to make them thinkchange is good.
But if inherently you believethat change is bad and change
makes you a quitter, that's whatyour child is going to hear and
see, no matter how you try tospin it.
So you have to fully embody andbelieve whatever message you
want them to live out, whichmeans you have to do
self-reflection and assessmentof what do I actually believe?
(47:24):
Because that's what you'regoing to pass on to your child,
and that's gonna that's gonna betheir reality.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:30):
Absolutely.
Um, Dr.
Taega, how can our listenersfind you, uh, find more about
you and your work?
Dr. Tega Edwin (47:37):
I'm her career doctor almost everywhere.
My website is her careerdoctor.com.
I spend a lot of time onInstagram.
I'm HerCareer Doctor There.
Um, I have a weekly newsletterwhere I send out strategies
mostly geared towards adults.
But if you go to umcatchupweekly.com, you can join.
But I love having conversationsabout career.
And so if you DM me onInstagram ever, I will
absolutely respond because Ilove this is my favorite topic
(47:59):
to talk about.
Dr. Amy Moore (48:00):
You can tell.
Absolutely.
Um, we appreciate all of youramazing insights and wisdom on a
topic that we just haven'tspent any time on on the show.
And so I hope that um I knowthat our listeners will have
just some amazing takeaways andaha moments.
I know I did from thisconversation.
(48:20):
And we'll put all those linksto your social media and your
website in our show notes.
Dr.
Tega Edwin, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
We really enjoyed having you.
Thank you for having me.
I enjoyed having thisconversation.
All right, listeners, I hopethat you feel a little bit
smarter after spending this hourwith us.
(48:41):
You can find us at the BrainyMoms on Instagram and Facebook
and TikTok and YouTube.
Uh so we would love it if youwould find us there and follow
us.
And until next time.
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