May 8, 2024 • 29 mins
My guest for this episode is a physiotherapist by training who went on to be a Vice President at a national health care company and has recently pivotted to share his knowledge and level the playing field, supporting smaller businesses in maximizing their potential. This conversation with Gary Thorne will get therapy business owners thinking about how they can create transferable value in their business, ultimately converting that business into something that can be sold instead of closed with retirement.
This episode is for any therapy business owner, even if they’re many years away from closing.
Check out Gary’s blog post on creating a maximum value exit plan. If you’re a business owner in any stage of your developpement and don’t know what’s next, book a free consultation with Gary on his website or reach out via his LinkedIn.
If you love The BRAVE OT Podcast, I'd be so grateful if you'd tell a friend, post about it, tag me or leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening!
To get up and running with Jane, book a customized call to learn what you need to know and, if you decided to make the switch, use the code VITALITY at the time of signup for a one month grace period on your new Jane account.
P.S. I hope you can forgive the sound quality on this one and hear the great info shared!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
okay, if I'm going to make achange over these next couple of
(00:03):
years, how do I change it so thatit could be something to sell?
What does that mindset shift looklike, or how can we facilitate OTs to
start thinking about that differently?
I love that question.
This is the always starting with the endin mind, and I'm just going to go right
to the end on who are your competitors,who might be buying in the space?
(00:26):
Because what you want to understand fromthe start is how do you create value to
your buyer, whether it's the OT company,communities over in a different city.
It's understanding where they place valueand if it belongs to you as an owner,
where you can take your business and, youknow, you're taking a business that is
going to have value in a couple of years.
(00:48):
That's the smartest place to startthat you are creating that mind shift
mid career to change your business
to be a commodity thatcan be sold at the end.
That there is value inmore than just your name.
You're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
(01:10):
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
(01:32):
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
my guest for this episode isa physiotherapist by training.
who went on to be a vice-presidentat a national healthcare company.
That's where I met him many years ago.
And he's recently pivoted To sharehis knowledge and level the playing
(01:53):
field, supporting smaller businessesin maximizing their potential.
This conversation with Gary Thornewill get therapy business owners
thinking about how they can createtransferable value in their businesses,
ultimately converting that businessinto something that can be sold instead
of closed with retirement or sooner.
This episode is for anytherapy business owner,
(02:15):
even if you're years away from closing.
Before we jump into today's episode, let'sgive a shout out to our sponsor, Jane,
a clinic management software and EMR.
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switching your software for a whilenow, the Jane team understands that
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(02:35):
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(02:57):
If you're interested in learning more,book a one on one demo at jane.app/switch
and, if you decide to make the switch,don't forget to use the code VITALITY
at signup to receive a one monthgrace period on your new Jane account.
Gary, thank you so much for being here.
I really am happy that you reachedout on LinkedIn and we connected
(03:20):
because we actually used to worktogether many, many years ago.
Yes, it's wonderful.
And thank you for having me ontoday and I look forward to the
discussion that we're going tohave about entrepreneurship and OT.
Yeah, definitely.
I'm excited.
So tell us a little bit about what you do.
So I have a National Healthcare Managementfirm it's called Elevate Practice
(03:45):
Intelligence and it helps health careowners in 3 phases of startup, the
organic growth in the middle part oftheir world, and then exit planning and
it is typically value growth advisory.
So we do growth and successionplanning and valuation of businesses
and everything from OT practices tophysio to chiro to other wellness.
(04:10):
And in a nutshell, that'sElevate Practice Intelligence.
And I love how you got here.
Are you comfortable telling alittle bit about why you have good
experience doing this sort of thing?
Yeah, I think it just comesfrom a passion to help now.
I've had the corporate career, 15 years asa VP with a national health care company.
(04:34):
I just have all of this domainknowledge and experience successes
that I just feel like I'm on thispath and need to share in my opinion,
just the right way of doing business
and
I send many different platforms and
I have so much to give in terms ofjust knowledge, and I'm happy to share
(04:59):
and collaborate with any owners thatare looking to have that conversation.
And it's really neat too, becauseyou're interested in supporting
businesses that are quite small.
It might be a solo clinicianwho owns a business.
It might be more medium size, might bebigger, but your experience is working
with quite a big organization andbeing able to bring what you know about
(05:20):
business, in that bigger proportionto the smaller business owners.
And as a person who's sort ofa solo person in my business.
I really appreciate that.
And I love the leveling of the playingfield, because it's always been the
big players having this lock on theknowledge of how to run a business or how
(05:41):
to scale a business or sell or acquire.
And now we've got.
you're able to take it from thelarge entities down to the sole
proprietors or the owner that's got1 clinic with 5 staff or multiple
clinics, and it's transferable.
And it's fun to get it downto the small guys, and I'm a
(06:01):
champion of those individuals,
A lot of the OTs that I talk to anda lot of the OTs who are listening
are likely a small business.
We tend to very often have a privatepractice where it's just us and
we go out and see our clients.
We might not even have a spaceOT is so community based, that
we might be going into homes orschools or doing consultations or
(06:22):
ergonomics or something like that.
And so very often we just think aboutclosing our, like when I retire,
I used to think, well, I guess Ijust closed my practice because my
practice is sort of nothing without me.
I've always worked in areally customized way.
I've always, you know, assessclients, determine what their needs
(06:42):
were, gave them what they need.
And that wasn't going to bethe same for the next client.
It was going to be different.
And so if I were to, want to notbe in my OT practice anymore,
essentially I'd just close it.
I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have sold it.
And I think I'm, like a lot of OTsin private practice in that way.
But a few years back, I startedto think about wanting to make
(07:05):
changes and shifts in my business.
And I, you know, wanted to do less tradingdollars per hour and have something
that was a little bit more scalable,something that, I didn't have to be always
the one providing a service one on onethat maybe it's a group, maybe it's a
program, maybe it's, something like that.
(07:26):
And as I was starting to want tomake that shift, I still have my OT
practice, but as I was starting to wantto build something, which turned out
to be my ACTivate Vitality program,planner and product, I wanted it to
be something that would stand alone.
So that wasn't, Carlyn Neek Coaching.
It was ACTivate Vitality.
So if I'm going to build atangible product, I could sell it.
(07:49):
I don't want to sell it atthis point, but why not?
If I'm going to make a change,why not change it in a way that
it could be sold one day insteadof me just closing when I retire.
I think it's brilliant because youhit on all of the things that when
you think about the middle phase ofa career business owner, they're in
(08:10):
that high case, burnout type of mode.
And it's like, how do I and how do Ithink about my business differently?
And have thoughts and planningaround how do I get to an exit
where my business is sellable?
How do I transfer value to a new owner?
(08:31):
That's my brand is morethan just me as an owner.
So I love what you've done withVitality part of your business
versus your coaching part.
Because there is a transfer abilitynow, that's not reliant on the
owner and the relationships thatthe owner has with referral sources.
That you are more than just alist of referral sources that send
(08:53):
your business work and that's thepower of thinking differently.
So that you are removing yourselffrom your business, which overall
helps when you're thinking about, typeof process way before you actually
consider selling your practice,
I think, and I think alot of OT businesses are
busier than they want to be.
(09:14):
Or they get to a point wherethey're busier than they want to be.
They've been at this for a long time.
Maybe they're kind of like, okay, likeI've been saying yes to all the referrals.
I'm exhausted.
That's where I was at.
I was really struggling to say no.
So I was just taking on more and more andI still was turning away a lot of work.
And so at one point I hireda bunch of contractors
but that just kind of landed mewith doing more administrative work.
(09:36):
And that wasn't what I wanted to be doing.
And so either I got boundariedor I hired people or I expanded.
Those were, seemed to be my onlyoptions before I decided to build
the ACTivate Vitality program.
But I think a lot of OTs are in thatspot where it's a busy business.
And maybe I don't want towork like that anymore.
Maybe I'm kind of tired.
Maybe I want to do somethinga little bit different.
(09:57):
Do I close this one?
Do I change it, shape it intosomething that feels more aligned?
But either way that OT might startthinking about, okay, if I'm going
to make a change over these nextcouple of years, how do I change it
so that it could be something to sell?
(10:18):
And that's kind of what we're goingto expand a little bit more into.
So even just for that mindset shiftfrom being a solo sort of therapist
clinician where they own all the assetof their business between their ears.
What does that mindset shift looklike, or how can we facilitate OTs to
start thinking about that differently?
I love that question.
This is the always starting with the endin mind, and I'm just going to go right
(10:42):
to the end on who are your competitors,who might be buying in the space?
Because what you want to understand fromthe start is how do you create value to
your buyer, whether it's the OT company,communities over in a different city.
It's understanding where they place valueand if it belongs to you as an owner,
where you can take your business and, youknow, you're taking a business that is
(11:06):
going to have value in a couple of years.
That's the smartest place to startthat you are creating that mind shift
mid career to change your business
to be a commodity thatcan be sold at the end.
That there is value inmore than just your name.
And I think that place of understandingwhere to look first, and then working
(11:28):
backwards to okay, this is what my OTworld is buying, this is what the national
health care companies are looking for,even a private equity firm is looking for.
And understanding my competitor ispotentially my buyer and, starting those
conversations early to understand theroadmap back to your current state.
(11:50):
I hope that helped a littlebit in that mindset shift.
And then it's just understandingand putting a pitch deck together.
Where's my value?
There's a brand, there's the team, there'sthe product and service that goes with it.
And that entrepreneur brain kicksin versus your clinical brain that
(12:12):
absorbs all of your time in a day.
what are some things that abuyer might be looking at?
Thinking about when I was making thatshift, I chose to create a product and a
program that might be if I can prove thisprogram, I can create this approach and
package that up, perhaps somebody mightwant to buy that program and the branding
(12:36):
and everything that comes with that.
But what are some other thingsthat buyers of an OT business might
be looking at as an asset that wemight be able to even start to work
toward if we're not already there.
Yeah, and there's two main ones.
It's a product or a service.
So we bought a product and it'sowned by you and it's your copyright.
(12:57):
That is powerful if they can scale
it.
Okay.
A B2B customer, like a national disabilityor auto or a legal customer, whatever
the case is, but it's the product andservice and it has to be scalable.
So can you take it from a city to aprovince to Western Canada to Canada?
In the virtual world thatwe exist in today, that is.
(13:21):
Taking something mobile and scalingit, that's probably the best way.
There is many different ways where buyersare looking for tuck ins and they want an
OT practice to be doing community work,whether it's in brain injury or other
services that they've got contracts for.
Does it allow a buyer to have anyvertical called occupational therapy?
(13:43):
Versus a product like a program thatyou can implement in a group setting
type of thing, Those are the main ones.
Okay And so what about the OTwho has maybe a small clinic?
Maybe they've got, they've gotemployees, they've got a whole
sort of way of going about things.
They have a number of assets.
What are those?
What are those assets that a buyermight be interested in if it was
(14:05):
more than a solo entrepreneur?
Yeah, typically, so it dependsif they've got bricks and mortar.
So there's a destinationfor them to land at.
So the location is important.
If it is a formal, I've got a clinicand this is where patients show up
at, there's proprietary information,
there's contracts that the, owner has.
(14:27):
So it's that customer list andit's that transferability of that
customer list to the new ownerthat's going to be important.
There's a lot of value in that.
So we talk about cash and so what'scash in the business and the operating
capital that's there and then talkabout simple things of intangible
assets and goodwill is typicallylocation and proprietary information.
(14:50):
So there are things that are outsideof if my occupational therapy practice
generates 500, 000 in sales, howmuch of the bottom line to keep.
To keep 200, 000 and you've got a 40percent debit and you know that cash
is a big component of why businessesget bought and what I'm seeing in
(15:12):
the marketplace now with other healthcare practices, they're under 5%.
And no practice can be sold to a buyerwith 5 percent EBIDA, nobody would buy it.
And I won't say with 100 percentcertainty, but I'll just say with really
high certainty that's just not sellable.
So, If you have clinicians, youhave to find a way to keep cash at
(15:35):
the end of the year, because that'swhat a multiple is for put to.
If you have 200, 000 a year, you mighthave a multiple of 4 or multiple of 5, and
then you're earning 800,000 or a milliondollars on the sale of the practice.
Right.
Because a lot of us who are small,like solo practices, we're looking to
minimize our sort of revenue at the endof the year for tax purposes, right?
(15:58):
Like you wanna be sure that you includeevery expense that you reasonably can,
and ethically can you want to sort ofdo that to reduce taxes paid, but you
need to think about it differently.
If in a few years you're going tosell, you need to see how that looks
like on paper when you're giving yourfinancials and that sort of thing.
That is, that's powerful beyond beliefbecause that is the mindset shift
(16:22):
between paying no tax and creatingcash in your business for the sale.
And I look at businesses and I goback two years, there's still no
cash in the business because they'vewritten it all off, they've been
done income splitting or they just,
they would have so many adbacksto try to normalize it, and it's
painful to go back years to showthat your business has value.
(16:45):
So this is the good starting pointthat 2 or 3 years out from selling
a practice, or when you'd like toexit it's getting that accounting to
show that you've got cash positive
that's really taking that businessfrom paying no tax to paying tax,
and it's really a small amount, buthaving cash in your business, so
you've got something tangible, cash,to sell is really strong in terms of
(17:12):
that message to the potential buyer.
So
this all might sound really overwhelmingto someone who wasn't even thinking about
this, that they were thinking, okay, well,I'm getting a little tired in my business.
Maybe I want to kind of make some changes.
Maybe I want to retire in thenext three, four, five years.
And then this might be alittle bit mind blowing.
(17:32):
where can people go for support?
Well, I think you're talkingto two people right now.
One is a coach of OTs in themindset shift of becoming.
I need to change somethingand I'd like to start thinking
about my business differently.
Like, how do I create space inmy schedule for that to happen?
So how do you coach from your side toeven bring it over to that potential
(17:58):
of, oh, my gosh, I do have somethinghere and then it might get passed
over to me to have a conversation.
I've got free consultations and Iusually do free consultations 1, 2, 3,
4 times with an owner before we makea service arrangement for consulting.
And it's just really getting to knowwhere your resources are from the
(18:21):
human side and then the business side.
And then I think we could potentiallydelineate it that way, but I think you're
just you're the impetus to the catalyst.
That brings awareness to an owner.
Before I would typically see them,because I don't know if they have that
thought process that I have somethingthat's marketable or sellable at the end.
(18:42):
Yeah,
And I think it's a 1, 2 combination andI would probably have you as a referral
source when you're working with ownersthat go, yeah, I want some of that and
I do want to be paid for my hard work.
And it could go, people might notneed, people listening might be already
ready and just didn't know where toturn or didn't know how to learn.
(19:05):
It's hard to Google.
Well, what's my business worth?
Or how do I sell an OT practice?
Google isn't all that helpfulwith this, to be honest.
And so being able to have afree consultation with someone
like you, that's helpful.
And I do appreciate the shout outbecause definitely a lot of the
clients that I coach, the OTs thatI coach, they're on the verge of
burnout or going in and out of burnout.
(19:26):
And just the business is busy andthey don't know how to change it.
They don't know what they want, butthey know something's got to change.
And so I do some coaching and going,okay, well, you have a business.
That's great.
What do you want life to look like?
What do you want life to feel like?
How much do you want to be working?
Okay, well, what business changesdo you need to make to get there?
But there's that little piece of, ifyou're going to make some change, Why
(19:49):
not make it something that could sell?
So getting them to, kind of, I guess it'sthat pre contemplation into preparation.
And you're supporting with thatcontemplation preparation action, but I
love that you do these free consultations.
Yeah.
Like I said earlier, I just have somuch to give back to the community.
Like I learnt a lot and I just wantto level the playing field for owners
(20:13):
to take on that next journey and tohave an exit that's rewarding and
a business that can be transferableand stand on its own in the next
chapter of the life of the practice.
It doesn't have to close.
It can live on if you want to prepare.
So if somebody was like, I don't even knowwhere to go, but I need to learn more.
(20:37):
they can find you on LinkedIn,Gary Thorne, and I'll put
a link in the show notes.
You had, I found a blog article too,Sell My Practice: How to Create an
Exit Plan to Extract Maximum Value.
I'll put a link
to
that one, but on your webpage, youalso have book a free consultation.
So does a person need to be ready,to book a free consultation?
Do they need to be ready to act?
(20:57):
No, like these are beenjust contemplating it.
What could it look like?
And, I might be 10 years out and I'm notready yet, but it's the preparation of
just knowing and starting conversationswith competitors or national companies
or who's buying, and looking atthe world outside of your business
(21:18):
differently, that they're not competitors,they're future potential buyers.
And how do I have to act asan owner to prepare with my
accountant, with my legal team?
There's just many different steps.
So it's just good startingpoint to have a conversation
and we might have three or four.
I'm happy to do that.
(21:38):
So
your website is elevatemypractice.ca.
Correct.
And they can find you on LinkedIn,but there's a nice green book,
a book, a free consultationbutton at the top of the website.
yeah, you're really generous aboutoffering a lot of free stuff and you're
always posting on LinkedIn and doingsome YouTube videos and things like that.
So I appreciate all you're doing togive good value to people who are just
(22:03):
trying to figure out where they're going.
Right.
It's a great starting point.
And like I said, there's nocommitment needed at the start.
This is just easy conversations.
Yeah.
Happy to do it.
Wonderful.
I have some questions.
I usually ask the OTs atthe end of my, my podcast.
I didn't prepare you with thesequestions, but let's give them a go.
So this is the BraveOT Podcast as you know.
(22:26):
So what does being brave mean to you?
Wow, yeah, being brave is doingsomething every day that scares you
like, it is out of your comfort zone.
It is starting a conversationwith a national accounting firm.
That is the Goliath and you're the smallerfish and it's a very different mindset
(22:48):
from the world that I come from, wherethe large corporate company has power
and influence and to be brave to stepinto conversations and to reach out to
a whole new, group of influencers thatare going to teach and grow with you.
It is scary.
(23:08):
It's a big world, and it is like to bereally vulnerable and to say that out
loud, it is a hard transition to comeout of a world where you've had a salary
for so many years and you're now on yourown and that's the brave part of it is
just doing something every day that, thatscares you, but you walk forward into it.
Yeah.
(23:29):
I love it.
And what's something braveyou've done recently?
Well, starting this practiceis a really brave piece.
I'm only four months live, and it'staking everything that I've learned
over my 15 years as a VP in a nationalhealth care company to bring it into a
knowledge exchange to, and then how do youget that across social media platforms?
(23:54):
How do I meet influencers likeyourself and other physios that
I'm talking to on podcasts?
And I think that's the bravest thingI've done in quite some time, to go solo.
Yeah.
And it's like, I've got a lot ofself assurance that I know this will
work, but it's still a scary journeybecause of the rollercoaster ride.
(24:15):
Because you're used to being a bigwig in a big fish company, right?
And it's a very vulnerablething to be just me.
Yeah.
Out there building relationships.
Yeah, you eat a lot of humble pie.
Yeah.
That I never really tastedover the last 15 years.
But it's powerful at the same time.
It's just where I need to be.
(24:35):
It's the right spot atthe right time for me.
So I like that.
It's
going to really be fulfilling for you.
Like, I can hear a lot of heart andvalues coming out in your why for this.
Yeah, my why is rooted in the help,like, it's not that full altruistic
I'm giving my practice away, but Ihave so much to give, offer, owners,
(24:57):
practitioners, whether you're startingor exiting, I've got the full gammut
that I can run, and the impact that Ithink this company will have is going to
be, transformative, across the country.
How would you like OTs to be a littlebit more brave in the coming years?
(25:20):
Yeah, I think just what we talkedabout today, the brave part is,
it's just that shift in, I'm a greatclinician, but I also have a business.
And step into the world of business torealize the potential that you have.
Whether you're sole practice,there's value and I think the brave
(25:41):
part is the journey to explorewhat's outside of your comfort zone
too and talking to competitors tosee who's buying and exploring.
How can I set up my business fortransferred ownership down the road.
It's very different than just runningthe course and closing, there's more
options and I think it's the bravepart is just exploring that there's
(26:03):
more than just that one choice, thatseparate choice that I'm just going to
close,
so.
But I think it's true, like,you got to find more choices,
just don't think there's one.
Yeah, and finding that path of how,I mean, many people love what they
do so much that they don't reallysee retire like, I kind of see myself
(26:25):
as continuing to do this work insome capacity, not like working my
butt off until an early retirement.
It's the work I do is really fulfilling.
And so that sense of I'd loveto keep doing this, but it needs
to continue to be fulfilling.
And that sometimes requires someadjusting and, and figuring it out
and valuing yourself and going,okay, I'm more than a workhorse.
(26:47):
Like I'm more than just
a service provider.
I have a lot of expertise to transfer.
I have built a lot of things that I don'teven realize are valuable to a buyer.
And starting to really seethat value is, it's really big.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
It is life-changing in me that thatis a transition that I would step in a
(27:09):
hundred percent of the time to exploreand just not give up on, without exploring
that potential for what do I have.
And what's it worth?
And who would buy it?
The journey's a fun one because it'sjust exploration in a different path.
It's not a clinical lens.
It's your business now andtalk to business people.
(27:30):
Being curious, talking topeople, getting out there.
Love it, So if you haven't alreadypeople listening, connect with Gary
on LinkedIn, check out his website,elevatemypractice.ca and maybe even
book a consultation call with him.
Thanks, Gary.
Thanks, Carlyn.
Wonderful to have time withyou today and your audience.
(27:51):
Thank you for the opportunity.
My pleasure.
I hope you found this episode of TheBRAVE OT podcast, to be inspiring
and maybe get you thinking a littlebit differently about your legacy
and what you will do with yourbusiness when you're no longer in it.
Maybe you'll see your business alittle bit differently or shape it a
little bit differently, knowing thatthere's some potential to exit in a
(28:15):
way that might look like selling it,instead of just closing the doors.
I invite you to check out Gary's blogpost I'll put a link in the show notes.
And Gary really means it when hesays that he would love to book
a free consultation with you.
He's helped me out, just talkingthings out, considering the options.
how do I approach this business situation?
I'm not sure what to do with that.
(28:36):
He's really good at that.
So that link will be inthe show notes as well.
And you can find him on LinkedIn.
I always love hearing from therapybusiness owners about how the
podcast is impacting them.
So if you liked this episode, Iwould love it if you would share
it with others, tag me, send me amessage, let me know what you think.
and I'd also love to hear if you haveany questions that you would like for
(28:59):
me to address in upcoming episodes.
I've had quite a backlog ofrecorded interviews that I am
catching up with and I will soonbe doing some more solo episodes,
so I invite any questions thatI might be able to answer.
Thanks for listening, andas always be brave OTs.
okay, if I'm going to make achange over these next couple of
(00:03):
years, how do I change it so thatit could be something to sell?
What does that mindset shift looklike, or how can we facilitate OTs to
start thinking about that differently?
I love that question.
This is the always starting with the endin mind, and I'm just going to go right
to the end on who are your competitors,who might be buying in the space?
(00:26):
Because what you want to understand fromthe start is how do you create value to
your buyer, whether it's the OT company,communities over in a different city.
It's understanding where they place valueand if it belongs to you as an owner,
where you can take your business and, youknow, you're taking a business that is
going to have value in a couple of years.
(00:48):
That's the smartest place to startthat you are creating that mind shift
mid career to change your business
to be a commodity thatcan be sold at the end.
That there is value inmore than just your name.
You're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
(01:10):
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
(01:32):
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
my guest for this episode isa physiotherapist by training.
who went on to be a vice-presidentat a national healthcare company.
That's where I met him many years ago.
And he's recently pivoted To sharehis knowledge and level the playing
(01:53):
field, supporting smaller businessesin maximizing their potential.
This conversation with Gary Thornewill get therapy business owners
thinking about how they can createtransferable value in their businesses,
ultimately converting that businessinto something that can be sold instead
of closed with retirement or sooner.
This episode is for anytherapy business owner,
(02:15):
even if you're years away from closing.
Before we jump into today's episode, let'sgive a shout out to our sponsor, Jane,
a clinic management software and EMR.
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If you're interested in learning more,book a one on one demo at jane.app/switch
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Gary, thank you so much for being here.
I really am happy that you reachedout on LinkedIn and we connected
(03:20):
because we actually used to worktogether many, many years ago.
Yes, it's wonderful.
And thank you for having me ontoday and I look forward to the
discussion that we're going tohave about entrepreneurship and OT.
Yeah, definitely.
I'm excited.
So tell us a little bit about what you do.
So I have a National Healthcare Managementfirm it's called Elevate Practice
(03:45):
Intelligence and it helps health careowners in 3 phases of startup, the
organic growth in the middle part oftheir world, and then exit planning and
it is typically value growth advisory.
So we do growth and successionplanning and valuation of businesses
and everything from OT practices tophysio to chiro to other wellness.
(04:10):
And in a nutshell, that'sElevate Practice Intelligence.
And I love how you got here.
Are you comfortable telling alittle bit about why you have good
experience doing this sort of thing?
Yeah, I think it just comesfrom a passion to help now.
I've had the corporate career, 15 years asa VP with a national health care company.
(04:34):
I just have all of this domainknowledge and experience successes
that I just feel like I'm on thispath and need to share in my opinion,
just the right way of doing business
and
I send many different platforms and
I have so much to give in terms ofjust knowledge, and I'm happy to share
(04:59):
and collaborate with any owners thatare looking to have that conversation.
And it's really neat too, becauseyou're interested in supporting
businesses that are quite small.
It might be a solo clinicianwho owns a business.
It might be more medium size, might bebigger, but your experience is working
with quite a big organization andbeing able to bring what you know about
(05:20):
business, in that bigger proportionto the smaller business owners.
And as a person who's sort ofa solo person in my business.
I really appreciate that.
And I love the leveling of the playingfield, because it's always been the
big players having this lock on theknowledge of how to run a business or how
(05:41):
to scale a business or sell or acquire.
And now we've got.
you're able to take it from thelarge entities down to the sole
proprietors or the owner that's got1 clinic with 5 staff or multiple
clinics, and it's transferable.
And it's fun to get it downto the small guys, and I'm a
(06:01):
champion of those individuals,
A lot of the OTs that I talk to anda lot of the OTs who are listening
are likely a small business.
We tend to very often have a privatepractice where it's just us and
we go out and see our clients.
We might not even have a spaceOT is so community based, that
we might be going into homes orschools or doing consultations or
(06:22):
ergonomics or something like that.
And so very often we just think aboutclosing our, like when I retire,
I used to think, well, I guess Ijust closed my practice because my
practice is sort of nothing without me.
I've always worked in areally customized way.
I've always, you know, assessclients, determine what their needs
(06:42):
were, gave them what they need.
And that wasn't going to bethe same for the next client.
It was going to be different.
And so if I were to, want to notbe in my OT practice anymore,
essentially I'd just close it.
I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have sold it.
And I think I'm, like a lot of OTsin private practice in that way.
But a few years back, I startedto think about wanting to make
(07:05):
changes and shifts in my business.
And I, you know, wanted to do less tradingdollars per hour and have something
that was a little bit more scalable,something that, I didn't have to be always
the one providing a service one on onethat maybe it's a group, maybe it's a
program, maybe it's, something like that.
(07:26):
And as I was starting to want tomake that shift, I still have my OT
practice, but as I was starting to wantto build something, which turned out
to be my ACTivate Vitality program,planner and product, I wanted it to
be something that would stand alone.
So that wasn't, Carlyn Neek Coaching.
It was ACTivate Vitality.
So if I'm going to build atangible product, I could sell it.
(07:49):
I don't want to sell it atthis point, but why not?
If I'm going to make a change,why not change it in a way that
it could be sold one day insteadof me just closing when I retire.
I think it's brilliant because youhit on all of the things that when
you think about the middle phase ofa career business owner, they're in
(08:10):
that high case, burnout type of mode.
And it's like, how do I and how do Ithink about my business differently?
And have thoughts and planningaround how do I get to an exit
where my business is sellable?
How do I transfer value to a new owner?
(08:31):
That's my brand is morethan just me as an owner.
So I love what you've done withVitality part of your business
versus your coaching part.
Because there is a transfer abilitynow, that's not reliant on the
owner and the relationships thatthe owner has with referral sources.
That you are more than just alist of referral sources that send
(08:53):
your business work and that's thepower of thinking differently.
So that you are removing yourselffrom your business, which overall
helps when you're thinking about, typeof process way before you actually
consider selling your practice,
I think, and I think alot of OT businesses are
busier than they want to be.
(09:14):
Or they get to a point wherethey're busier than they want to be.
They've been at this for a long time.
Maybe they're kind of like, okay, likeI've been saying yes to all the referrals.
I'm exhausted.
That's where I was at.
I was really struggling to say no.
So I was just taking on more and more andI still was turning away a lot of work.
And so at one point I hireda bunch of contractors
but that just kind of landed mewith doing more administrative work.
(09:36):
And that wasn't what I wanted to be doing.
And so either I got boundariedor I hired people or I expanded.
Those were, seemed to be my onlyoptions before I decided to build
the ACTivate Vitality program.
But I think a lot of OTs are in thatspot where it's a busy business.
And maybe I don't want towork like that anymore.
Maybe I'm kind of tired.
Maybe I want to do somethinga little bit different.
(09:57):
Do I close this one?
Do I change it, shape it intosomething that feels more aligned?
But either way that OT might startthinking about, okay, if I'm going
to make a change over these nextcouple of years, how do I change it
so that it could be something to sell?
(10:18):
And that's kind of what we're goingto expand a little bit more into.
So even just for that mindset shiftfrom being a solo sort of therapist
clinician where they own all the assetof their business between their ears.
What does that mindset shift looklike, or how can we facilitate OTs to
start thinking about that differently?
I love that question.
This is the always starting with the endin mind, and I'm just going to go right
(10:42):
to the end on who are your competitors,who might be buying in the space?
Because what you want to understand fromthe start is how do you create value to
your buyer, whether it's the OT company,communities over in a different city.
It's understanding where they place valueand if it belongs to you as an owner,
where you can take your business and, youknow, you're taking a business that is
(11:06):
going to have value in a couple of years.
That's the smartest place to startthat you are creating that mind shift
mid career to change your business
to be a commodity thatcan be sold at the end.
That there is value inmore than just your name.
And I think that place of understandingwhere to look first, and then working
(11:28):
backwards to okay, this is what my OTworld is buying, this is what the national
health care companies are looking for,even a private equity firm is looking for.
And understanding my competitor ispotentially my buyer and, starting those
conversations early to understand theroadmap back to your current state.
(11:50):
I hope that helped a littlebit in that mindset shift.
And then it's just understandingand putting a pitch deck together.
Where's my value?
There's a brand, there's the team, there'sthe product and service that goes with it.
And that entrepreneur brain kicksin versus your clinical brain that
(12:12):
absorbs all of your time in a day.
what are some things that abuyer might be looking at?
Thinking about when I was making thatshift, I chose to create a product and a
program that might be if I can prove thisprogram, I can create this approach and
package that up, perhaps somebody mightwant to buy that program and the branding
(12:36):
and everything that comes with that.
But what are some other thingsthat buyers of an OT business might
be looking at as an asset that wemight be able to even start to work
toward if we're not already there.
Yeah, and there's two main ones.
It's a product or a service.
So we bought a product and it'sowned by you and it's your copyright.
(12:57):
That is powerful if they can scale
it.
Okay.
A B2B customer, like a national disabilityor auto or a legal customer, whatever
the case is, but it's the product andservice and it has to be scalable.
So can you take it from a city to aprovince to Western Canada to Canada?
In the virtual world thatwe exist in today, that is.
(13:21):
Taking something mobile and scalingit, that's probably the best way.
There is many different ways where buyersare looking for tuck ins and they want an
OT practice to be doing community work,whether it's in brain injury or other
services that they've got contracts for.
Does it allow a buyer to have anyvertical called occupational therapy?
(13:43):
Versus a product like a program thatyou can implement in a group setting
type of thing, Those are the main ones.
Okay And so what about the OTwho has maybe a small clinic?
Maybe they've got, they've gotemployees, they've got a whole
sort of way of going about things.
They have a number of assets.
What are those?
What are those assets that a buyermight be interested in if it was
(14:05):
more than a solo entrepreneur?
Yeah, typically, so it dependsif they've got bricks and mortar.
So there's a destinationfor them to land at.
So the location is important.
If it is a formal, I've got a clinicand this is where patients show up
at, there's proprietary information,
there's contracts that the, owner has.
(14:27):
So it's that customer list andit's that transferability of that
customer list to the new ownerthat's going to be important.
There's a lot of value in that.
So we talk about cash and so what'scash in the business and the operating
capital that's there and then talkabout simple things of intangible
assets and goodwill is typicallylocation and proprietary information.
(14:50):
So there are things that are outsideof if my occupational therapy practice
generates 500, 000 in sales, howmuch of the bottom line to keep.
To keep 200, 000 and you've got a 40percent debit and you know that cash
is a big component of why businessesget bought and what I'm seeing in
(15:12):
the marketplace now with other healthcare practices, they're under 5%.
And no practice can be sold to a buyerwith 5 percent EBIDA, nobody would buy it.
And I won't say with 100 percentcertainty, but I'll just say with really
high certainty that's just not sellable.
So, If you have clinicians, youhave to find a way to keep cash at
(15:35):
the end of the year, because that'swhat a multiple is for put to.
If you have 200, 000 a year, you mighthave a multiple of 4 or multiple of 5, and
then you're earning 800,000 or a milliondollars on the sale of the practice.
Right.
Because a lot of us who are small,like solo practices, we're looking to
minimize our sort of revenue at the endof the year for tax purposes, right?
(15:58):
Like you wanna be sure that you includeevery expense that you reasonably can,
and ethically can you want to sort ofdo that to reduce taxes paid, but you
need to think about it differently.
If in a few years you're going tosell, you need to see how that looks
like on paper when you're giving yourfinancials and that sort of thing.
That is, that's powerful beyond beliefbecause that is the mindset shift
(16:22):
between paying no tax and creatingcash in your business for the sale.
And I look at businesses and I goback two years, there's still no
cash in the business because they'vewritten it all off, they've been
done income splitting or they just,
they would have so many adbacksto try to normalize it, and it's
painful to go back years to showthat your business has value.
(16:45):
So this is the good starting pointthat 2 or 3 years out from selling
a practice, or when you'd like toexit it's getting that accounting to
show that you've got cash positive
that's really taking that businessfrom paying no tax to paying tax,
and it's really a small amount, buthaving cash in your business, so
you've got something tangible, cash,to sell is really strong in terms of
(17:12):
that message to the potential buyer.
So
this all might sound really overwhelmingto someone who wasn't even thinking about
this, that they were thinking, okay, well,I'm getting a little tired in my business.
Maybe I want to kind of make some changes.
Maybe I want to retire in thenext three, four, five years.
And then this might be alittle bit mind blowing.
(17:32):
where can people go for support?
Well, I think you're talkingto two people right now.
One is a coach of OTs in themindset shift of becoming.
I need to change somethingand I'd like to start thinking
about my business differently.
Like, how do I create space inmy schedule for that to happen?
So how do you coach from your side toeven bring it over to that potential
(17:58):
of, oh, my gosh, I do have somethinghere and then it might get passed
over to me to have a conversation.
I've got free consultations and Iusually do free consultations 1, 2, 3,
4 times with an owner before we makea service arrangement for consulting.
And it's just really getting to knowwhere your resources are from the
(18:21):
human side and then the business side.
And then I think we could potentiallydelineate it that way, but I think you're
just you're the impetus to the catalyst.
That brings awareness to an owner.
Before I would typically see them,because I don't know if they have that
thought process that I have somethingthat's marketable or sellable at the end.
(18:42):
Yeah,
And I think it's a 1, 2 combination andI would probably have you as a referral
source when you're working with ownersthat go, yeah, I want some of that and
I do want to be paid for my hard work.
And it could go, people might notneed, people listening might be already
ready and just didn't know where toturn or didn't know how to learn.
(19:05):
It's hard to Google.
Well, what's my business worth?
Or how do I sell an OT practice?
Google isn't all that helpfulwith this, to be honest.
And so being able to have afree consultation with someone
like you, that's helpful.
And I do appreciate the shout outbecause definitely a lot of the
clients that I coach, the OTs thatI coach, they're on the verge of
burnout or going in and out of burnout.
(19:26):
And just the business is busy andthey don't know how to change it.
They don't know what they want, butthey know something's got to change.
And so I do some coaching and going,okay, well, you have a business.
That's great.
What do you want life to look like?
What do you want life to feel like?
How much do you want to be working?
Okay, well, what business changesdo you need to make to get there?
But there's that little piece of, ifyou're going to make some change, Why
(19:49):
not make it something that could sell?
So getting them to, kind of, I guess it'sthat pre contemplation into preparation.
And you're supporting with thatcontemplation preparation action, but I
love that you do these free consultations.
Yeah.
Like I said earlier, I just have somuch to give back to the community.
Like I learnt a lot and I just wantto level the playing field for owners
(20:13):
to take on that next journey and tohave an exit that's rewarding and
a business that can be transferableand stand on its own in the next
chapter of the life of the practice.
It doesn't have to close.
It can live on if you want to prepare.
So if somebody was like, I don't even knowwhere to go, but I need to learn more.
(20:37):
they can find you on LinkedIn,Gary Thorne, and I'll put
a link in the show notes.
You had, I found a blog article too,Sell My Practice: How to Create an
Exit Plan to Extract Maximum Value.
I'll put a link
to
that one, but on your webpage, youalso have book a free consultation.
So does a person need to be ready,to book a free consultation?
Do they need to be ready to act?
(20:57):
No, like these are beenjust contemplating it.
What could it look like?
And, I might be 10 years out and I'm notready yet, but it's the preparation of
just knowing and starting conversationswith competitors or national companies
or who's buying, and looking atthe world outside of your business
(21:18):
differently, that they're not competitors,they're future potential buyers.
And how do I have to act asan owner to prepare with my
accountant, with my legal team?
There's just many different steps.
So it's just good startingpoint to have a conversation
and we might have three or four.
I'm happy to do that.
(21:38):
So
your website is elevatemypractice.ca.
Correct.
And they can find you on LinkedIn,but there's a nice green book,
a book, a free consultationbutton at the top of the website.
yeah, you're really generous aboutoffering a lot of free stuff and you're
always posting on LinkedIn and doingsome YouTube videos and things like that.
So I appreciate all you're doing togive good value to people who are just
(22:03):
trying to figure out where they're going.
Right.
It's a great starting point.
And like I said, there's nocommitment needed at the start.
This is just easy conversations.
Yeah.
Happy to do it.
Wonderful.
I have some questions.
I usually ask the OTs atthe end of my, my podcast.
I didn't prepare you with thesequestions, but let's give them a go.
So this is the BraveOT Podcast as you know.
(22:26):
So what does being brave mean to you?
Wow, yeah, being brave is doingsomething every day that scares you
like, it is out of your comfort zone.
It is starting a conversationwith a national accounting firm.
That is the Goliath and you're the smallerfish and it's a very different mindset
(22:48):
from the world that I come from, wherethe large corporate company has power
and influence and to be brave to stepinto conversations and to reach out to
a whole new, group of influencers thatare going to teach and grow with you.
It is scary.
(23:08):
It's a big world, and it is like to bereally vulnerable and to say that out
loud, it is a hard transition to comeout of a world where you've had a salary
for so many years and you're now on yourown and that's the brave part of it is
just doing something every day that, thatscares you, but you walk forward into it.
Yeah.
(23:29):
I love it.
And what's something braveyou've done recently?
Well, starting this practiceis a really brave piece.
I'm only four months live, and it'staking everything that I've learned
over my 15 years as a VP in a nationalhealth care company to bring it into a
knowledge exchange to, and then how do youget that across social media platforms?
(23:54):
How do I meet influencers likeyourself and other physios that
I'm talking to on podcasts?
And I think that's the bravest thingI've done in quite some time, to go solo.
Yeah.
And it's like, I've got a lot ofself assurance that I know this will
work, but it's still a scary journeybecause of the rollercoaster ride.
(24:15):
Because you're used to being a bigwig in a big fish company, right?
And it's a very vulnerablething to be just me.
Yeah.
Out there building relationships.
Yeah, you eat a lot of humble pie.
Yeah.
That I never really tastedover the last 15 years.
But it's powerful at the same time.
It's just where I need to be.
(24:35):
It's the right spot atthe right time for me.
So I like that.
It's
going to really be fulfilling for you.
Like, I can hear a lot of heart andvalues coming out in your why for this.
Yeah, my why is rooted in the help,like, it's not that full altruistic
I'm giving my practice away, but Ihave so much to give, offer, owners,
(24:57):
practitioners, whether you're startingor exiting, I've got the full gammut
that I can run, and the impact that Ithink this company will have is going to
be, transformative, across the country.
How would you like OTs to be a littlebit more brave in the coming years?
(25:20):
Yeah, I think just what we talkedabout today, the brave part is,
it's just that shift in, I'm a greatclinician, but I also have a business.
And step into the world of business torealize the potential that you have.
Whether you're sole practice,there's value and I think the brave
(25:41):
part is the journey to explorewhat's outside of your comfort zone
too and talking to competitors tosee who's buying and exploring.
How can I set up my business fortransferred ownership down the road.
It's very different than just runningthe course and closing, there's more
options and I think it's the bravepart is just exploring that there's
(26:03):
more than just that one choice, thatseparate choice that I'm just going to
close,
so.
But I think it's true, like,you got to find more choices,
just don't think there's one.
Yeah, and finding that path of how,I mean, many people love what they
do so much that they don't reallysee retire like, I kind of see myself
(26:25):
as continuing to do this work insome capacity, not like working my
butt off until an early retirement.
It's the work I do is really fulfilling.
And so that sense of I'd loveto keep doing this, but it needs
to continue to be fulfilling.
And that sometimes requires someadjusting and, and figuring it out
and valuing yourself and going,okay, I'm more than a workhorse.
(26:47):
Like I'm more than just
a service provider.
I have a lot of expertise to transfer.
I have built a lot of things that I don'teven realize are valuable to a buyer.
And starting to really seethat value is, it's really big.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
It is life-changing in me that thatis a transition that I would step in a
(27:09):
hundred percent of the time to exploreand just not give up on, without exploring
that potential for what do I have.
And what's it worth?
And who would buy it?
The journey's a fun one because it'sjust exploration in a different path.
It's not a clinical lens.
It's your business now andtalk to business people.
(27:30):
Being curious, talking topeople, getting out there.
Love it, So if you haven't alreadypeople listening, connect with Gary
on LinkedIn, check out his website,elevatemypractice.ca and maybe even
book a consultation call with him.
Thanks, Gary.
Thanks, Carlyn.
Wonderful to have time withyou today and your audience.
(27:51):
Thank you for the opportunity.
My pleasure.
I hope you found this episode of TheBRAVE OT podcast, to be inspiring
and maybe get you thinking a littlebit differently about your legacy
and what you will do with yourbusiness when you're no longer in it.
Maybe you'll see your business alittle bit differently or shape it a
little bit differently, knowing thatthere's some potential to exit in a
(28:15):
way that might look like selling it,instead of just closing the doors.
I invite you to check out Gary's blogpost I'll put a link in the show notes.
And Gary really means it when hesays that he would love to book
a free consultation with you.
He's helped me out, just talkingthings out, considering the options.
how do I approach this business situation?
I'm not sure what to do with that.
(28:36):
He's really good at that.
So that link will be inthe show notes as well.
And you can find him on LinkedIn.
I always love hearing from therapybusiness owners about how the
podcast is impacting them.
So if you liked this episode, Iwould love it if you would share
it with others, tag me, send me amessage, let me know what you think.
and I'd also love to hear if you haveany questions that you would like for
(28:59):
me to address in upcoming episodes.
I've had quite a backlog ofrecorded interviews that I am
catching up with and I will soonbe doing some more solo episodes,
so I invite any questions thatI might be able to answer.
Thanks for listening, andas always be brave OTs.
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