October 9, 2024 • 46 mins
We’re diving into what it really means to build something new from scratch—both personally and professionally. My guest, Dana Solomon, is an occupational therapist who has bravely stepped into the world of pelvic health and entrepreneurship by creating the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
In this episode, we talk about her journey, the vulnerability that comes with launching a project that isn't perfect, and how she’s embraced the concept of ‘failing upward’—learning and growing with every step.
Dana’s story will resonate with any OT who’s ever felt the pull to create something new, whether it's a practice, a program, or a whole new path in our profession. This episode is all about navigating self-doubt, finding your flow, and making bold moves without waiting for permission. We’ll talk about how bravery in OT isn’t about knowing it all—it’s about being willing to try and evolve through the process.
So if you’re ready to be inspired and take action on that project you’ve been dreaming about, this one’s for you!
Check out Dana's Links:
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If Dana’s journey of building something new and stepping into the unknown resonates with you, I want to remind you that you don’t have to do it alone. Running a business—whether it’s launching a new project, growing your private practice, or taking the next brave step—requires more than just professional skills. It’s about aligning your work with your values, finding clarity in your direction, and building a business that feels sustainable and fulfilling.
That’s why I created ACTivate Vitality—a group coaching program specifically designed for therapy business owners who are ready to integrate personal and professional growth, break free from perfectionism and overfunctioning, and create a business that supports the life they want. It’s where you learn to embrace vulnerability, step into your values, and thrive with the support of a like-minded community.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We call it failing upwards.
Where, if you're in the moment, itcan feel like you're failing, right?
You can feel like you're not makingthese strides towards what you think,
but you keep moving and with thismovement and continued momentum, when
you look back at your journey, you'rerealizing like, oh, this all makes sense.
(00:21):
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
(00:43):
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
Hey there, BRAVE OTs.
It's Carlyn here with anotherepisode of The BRAVE OT Podcast.
(01:03):
And today we are diving intowhat it really means to build
something new from scratch, bothpersonally and professionally.
My guest, Dana Solomon is anoccupational therapist who has
bravely stepped into the world ofpelvic health and entrepreneurship by
creating the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
She answered the call to solvea problem that many OTs in
public health were voicing.
(01:26):
Today we talk about her journey, thevulnerability that comes with launching
a project that isn't perfect, and how sheembraced the concept of failing upward,
learning and growing with every step.
Dana's story will resonate withany OT who's ever felt the pull
to create something new, whetherit's a practice, a program, or a
whole new path in our profession.
(01:47):
This episode is all aboutnavigating self doubt.
You might have heard of it,maybe not, I don't know.
Finding Your Flow, you'llfind an echo of the Kawa model
episode that preceded this one.
And making bold moves withoutwaiting for permission.
We'll talk about how bravery inOT isn't about knowing it all.
(02:07):
It's about being willing to tryand evolve through the process.
So if you're ready to be inspired andtake action on that project, you've
been dreaming about, this one's for you.
I met Dana at the PelvicHealth Summit in 2023.
interestingly, we recorded thisdiscussion close to a year ago.
And I didn't listen to it beforerecording episode 31, Find Your Flow.
(02:32):
explore your OT businessthrough the Kawa model.
So if you want to learn more aboutthis Kawa journey that I described
somewhere in the middle of this podcastepisode, go listen to episode 31 next.
I think you'll really enjoy it.
Before we get into today's episode,I'd like to introduce our sponsor
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(02:52):
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about, you wear a couple hats, don't you?
Tell us about your hats.
I wear many hats, I am one to pick uplots of hats, in fact, sometimes I pick
up too many and I need to put them down.
(03:56):
You are one of my people, Ilike it, I like lots of hats.
So I am an occupational therapistthat specializes in pelvic health,
with a background in pediatrics.
I'm also a yoga teacher and I am thecreator of the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
that's a really exciting project.
(04:16):
That's what we met about when we metat the Pelvic Health Summit in Phoenix.
You were sharing about your clubhouse andit sounds like a really interesting thing.
I'm excited to be able to talk about that.
Yeah, that was one of thescariest profound experiences of
my professional career thus far.
(04:37):
Really?
Can you tell us more aboutwhat was scary and profound?
That experience left me feeling sovulnerable and exposed and it was,
I just want, so the Pelvic HealthClubhouse is this digital platform
and I'm an occupational therapist.
I'm not a coder.
I'm not a software developer.
(04:58):
I'm not in tech.
And I created this thing andI was presenting it to my
colleagues and it wasn't perfect.
And I didn't even know if the technologywas going to work, not from just
the internal level of the tech, butlike me connecting it to a computer,
(05:19):
like a monitor to show people.
There were so many unknowns and I feltso exposed and it was also the most
amazing experience because I was ableto share something that I had worked
so hard on with my colleagues andput it out there in this amazing way.
(05:42):
that's huge.
And there are so many layers there too.
I noticed from being at the Pelvic HealthSummit and from being in Lindsey's world
as well, that the OTs just for beingin pelvic health also feel like this
sense that in itself is brave, right?
That it's stepping into this area ofpractice that OTs very much belong
in, but hasn't historically beenunderstood to be be an expert in.
(06:07):
And so that in itself is brave and you'regoing further and going, okay, and I
have a lot of resources to share and I'mgoing to put it on this tech platform and
resources are yourspecialty, but tech isn't.
So many layers of brave.
I'm so proud of you.
I'm so happy for you.
Thank you.
It's been a wild ride.
and did you, were you warmly received?
(06:31):
Yes.
Oh, goodness, yes.
So tell me what is this clubhouse?
Like, how does it work?
What's it all about?
Yeah.
So I got into pelvic health about threeyears ago and, I was so excited and I
was reading everything I possibly could.
And just drinking from the fire hose ofinformation and obsessed with it all.
(06:52):
But I found that everythingwas really disorganized.
Everything was scatteredacross the internet.
And I kept seeing thesame questions pop up.
Does anybody have this research article?
Does anybody have this resource?
Does anyone have this thatthey can share with me?
And my brain likes everything inone place because it just gets
(07:13):
to be, it takes time and energy.
And I had the time of COVID, the pandemic,to play around and learn how to make
things so I created these resources, thatmy colleagues seemed to really like.
And so I started to sellthem and share them.
But it still didn't feel like enough.
(07:34):
I felt like everything was still not quiteas organized as I would want it to be.
It felt like there were topics everywhere.
It just felt very spread out.
And was this when you were sellingthem before you had them on a
platform, was it like this many dollarsfor a PDF download sort of thing?
Yeah.
And then people wanted to beable to customize it to their
(07:56):
own logo and their own practice.
And it just, it's all things thattake a lot of time for people to do.
And at the end of the day, we're notpaid to be copywriters and we're not
paid and we're not trained to use thesecomputer programs and it takes time
and energy, and it usually goes tothe bottom of our list of things to do.
(08:20):
So when we work with clients in pelvichealth, there's a lot of education.
There's a ton of it becauseit's all new to so many people.
And you want to be able to sharethings with clients that help them feel
like this information is digestible.
Yeah.
And
accessible.
(08:41):
So when people started buyingmy resources, I had a feeling
that there was something there.
. And I also make videos.
And I've just wanted everything inone place and easy to send to others.
So I started creating this platformcalled the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
(09:01):
And it is a place that has pelvichealth resources organized by
topic and by type of resource,with functional illustrations.
Easy, client centered language,concise videos and everything's
under five minutes so you can showsomeone how to do something that's not
(09:22):
really easy to find on the internet.
And then all these guides andresources that can then be added,
like you can add your own logo andyour own practice name when you send
things digitally to your clients.
That's really cool.
so a therapist might be, they might doan initial session and rather than have
(09:43):
100 handouts in their little bag, theymight do that assessment, make some
recommendations and then email them thedigital materials that they might need.
Maybe they need a video that reexplains what the education they got.
Maybe it's a, an illustrationof how they might do this.
Am I getting that right?
Is that how they use it?
(10:04):
Yeah, they can print it if they want,but I, feel like we're in such a digital
age that people will often email clients.
So that way it's just reallyeasily sent to clients.
So we're saving time and energyon the therapist, but still
providing such quality of care.
Amazing.
That must have taken 1million hours to put together.
(10:28):
It is.
It's another hat that I nowwear, which is which is CEO.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just like from everything from,I'm just even imagining how
these illustrations came about.
And not just an illustration, butan illustration then on a page that
makes sense and that is easy to read.
And then also having to put thatin a way that it's downloadable
(10:50):
there are so many layers.
Yes.
There's been a lot andI'm still working it out.
It's still a work inprogress in many ways.
Yeah.
So people are buying this, peopleare using the resources, people
are then giving you feedback.
I bet you're evolving as youhear how people are using things.
Yeah, so I've gotten suchgreat feedback so far.
(11:12):
I have, I think I offer this free trial.
So I have a 50 percent conversion rate,which is pretty high statistically
for a trial to conversion.
And another thing that's important tome is I want people to enthusiastically
opt in and not worry about optingout, so people actually have to
sign up for the paid membership,
(11:33):
versus like a lot of times you'llsign up for things and then you
realize three months later thatyour credit card's been charged.
So there's this I'mconsenting to this platform.
And so there's this 50 percent conversionrate that I'm so excited about considering
this is less than a month old and,I am getting amazing feedback about
(11:57):
how people are using it andthen also what they want to see
and how they want it to grow.
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
Because as with any therapeuticapproach, there are many ways
to approach the same problem.
So you don't want it to be a ifthey have this problem, here's
your treatment plan, right?
It's what are the resources thattherapist who's making their clinical
judgment in the context of that personin their environment and what's going
(12:19):
on that they can choose from a variety,almost I guess like a chef, right?
Choosing from a variety of ingredientsrather than being given a recipe.
Exactly.
I want this to feel like the therapistshave control and can choose what makes
sense for that person in front of them.
Yeah.
So you said that you have a lotof different hats and You have a
(12:41):
pelvic health practice, you do yogainstruction, you have built the clubhouse.
There was something else too.
I also write, I write, I havelike my little newsletter that
I can send out to people too.
That's great.
So have there been a variety of seasonsthrough your career where you find you're
(13:02):
called to evolve in a certain direction?
That would be a reallyeloquent way to say it.
I, I feel like a more realisticexplanation would be that I have
thrown many darts at the dartboard.
Okay.
Okay.
And sometimes I am called to want, orcircumstances has led me into certain
(13:27):
directions, but I think that at thebeginning, or three years ago when I left
working in pediatrics, I was just throwingdarts at the dartboard of what's me?
What's my career?
What's me?
What feels right?
What feels sustainable?
I did a lot of everything
and
that was three years agowas early in the pandemic.
(13:50):
Yeah, I guess it was earlier than that.
So let's say four, four years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you knew something needed tochange, but in which direction
did you want to change?
Like trying to figure thatout was some trial and error.
Yes.
I think that what, whether thisis right or wrong, I think that
(14:12):
having lots of different experiencesallowed me to know what I liked
about them and what I wanted to keep.
Like whether it was like little toolshere and there and what things I
wanted to let go of and make my owncareer path based on those experiences.
I did something similar, and I, inhindsight, refer to it as Marie Kondo ing
(14:35):
my OT practice, that sense of looking atall the parts of my work, and looking at
the ones that brought me joy, and lookingat the ones that I felt really dragged
down by and being able to go, okay whatare the clues in this stuff that I love?
And what are the clues in the stuffthat I feel really dragged down by?
(14:56):
And how can I craft my next phase orthis evolution so that it does continue
to feel energizing and motivating.
And it can look from the outsidelike darts on a wall, right?
But truly, we're moremethodical than that, right?
There's that sense of, okay, so if Ireally one of the things was that I,
(15:20):
working with clients who there might bea third party payer involved, sometimes
that can be a complicating factor forwhy they may be struggling to move
forward or why there might be fearto move forward or things like that.
And I was feeling called to not haveas much complication, like just me
and the client, what do they need?
What, how can I help them?
(15:41):
What do, and so there was that sortof sense of, huh, which of my clients
are more like take the ball and runwith it, which kind of led me to
coaching as an area of interest.
And, but it was like, I don't
think
that's exactly what I want.
So I had to experiment with it.
I had to try that out.
I had to try on different niches,try on different things and.
(16:01):
And you go, oh yeah, that wasn't it.
This was it.
And down this path of tryingthis and maybe choose your
own adventure a little bit.
I ended up here where I'm coachingother occupational therapy, business
owners, and I love, love, lovethat, but it was not a smooth path.
(16:21):
And I didn't know this was theend point when I set out on it.
Is there some of thatin your story as well?
Yeah.
So you're reminding me of a termthat a friend and I use together.
We call it failing upwards.
Where,
if you're in the moment, it canfeel like you're failing, right?
You can feel like you're not makingthese strides towards what you think,
(16:43):
but you keep moving and with thismovement and continued momentum, when
you look back at your journey, you'rerealizing like, oh, this all makes sense.
I feel like with me, I workedin pediatrics and I was working
with families oftentimes
in
pediatric land, you verymuch work with families.
And I realized in this post NICU settingor early intervention setting with young
(17:07):
children under the age of three, that mycare was really directed towards baby, and
I wasn't really focusing on the family,like I would do education but feeling
like I was losing the connection thereand it wasn't till I started asking moms,
Caregivers, but moms, about them andtheir needs and what's going on with
(17:29):
their sleep, with their nutrition.
I started just asking more questions andrealizing how interconnected that is.
And that led me into maternal health.
So And I started learning and learningabout maternal health and then I
found pelvic health and then I doveinto pelvic health and nobody would
offer me a job, with pelvic health.
So the only way I felt like I could dowhat I wanted to do at the time because
(17:54):
I'm stubborn and decided that nobodywas going to tell me when to start my
career, I opened up a private practicewith essentially no pelvic health
experience and not even experiencedreally that much in working with adults.
That is brave.
So I found mentors to work with and Ifound people like you've got to find
(18:21):
your tribe and then was able to reallyput the stepping stones like build the
foundations and from there I was ableto continue to just weave a path right
and it sometimes it looked like meteaching baby and me yoga and sometimes
it looked like me trying this workoutfor moms and babies and realizing,
(18:45):
all right, what about that works?
What about that doesn't?
And then sometimes it looked likeme, being a content creator for other
therapists and what about that did I love?
What about that didn't I like?
And it just I felt like I constantlywas putting myself into these situations
where I kept finding what I liked aboutthings, what I didn't like about things.
(19:06):
I think where I found the piecesthat I liked is where I wasn't asking
for somebody else to tell me what todo or when to do it, but like, how
do I make those decisions myself?
So there's a theme of, not waitingfor permission, is something I've
heard you say, more directly too,but you're hinting at it like that
(19:28):
you weren't going to wait forsomebody to open the door for you.
You had enough inner drive to go,no, this is something important.
I'm going to find a way to do it.
I'm going to be curious and exploratoryand try things and keep going, but
you're not waiting for somebody tosay, and here's your entry point.
I think it's really nice when thathappens, I just don't think we can
(19:50):
wait for that moment because youcan be waiting a really long time.
And I think that growth and evolutionisn't because of somebody else's work.
It's because of your own.
Yeah.
What I'm hearing that's differentin your story from what I hear
from a lot of the OTs that I help
is that, and maybe tell me if this waspart of your experience, but a lot of the
(20:14):
OTs who would like to take a brave move,like you have and go and try something
that might not already exist or createsomething that maybe other people might
be doing, but they're creating their own
maybe it's a privatepractice or something.
I hear a lot of OTs saying, Butwhat if I fail and I'm not confident
enough and I might screw that upand what experience do I even have?
(20:35):
Why?
Who am I to do that?
And then that stops them.
And I'm hearing from you that you did it.
Did any of those same doubtscome in before you move forward?
Every day.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So at one point in my journey, I,reached a point where I was meeting some
(20:55):
of my goals and meeting my immediategoals with opening my practice.
And I was working at, I finallygot myself a clinic job.
So I was working part time at aclinic, part time in my practice,
part time doing this and this.
And that was great for a while.
But when I stopped getting somediscovery calls for a month, or I
stopped getting new evaluations,that's like when doubt sets in.
(21:17):
And there were other circumstancesgoing on in my life that, my husband
was finishing a PhD program, werelied on my income, very much.
I ended up putting my practice on hold.
I like to call it like a snooze button.
And, it felt like a failure thatfelt like a, like I had failed.
(21:37):
But looking back, like this is, I guessthis is what I mean by failing upwards was
in the moment I would have said I failed.
And I, failed at openinga private practice.
I failed at running it.
It wasn't successful, but lookingback, it really does feel like a snooze
button because I was able to supportmy family and then we moved and now
(21:59):
I'm restarting my private practice.
And I think about it interms of safety to right.
So I've talked about this withsome of my clients who have
needed to leave a job becauseit was absolutely killing them.
It was burning them out.
It was toxic.
So they're like, all right, I'mall in on this private practice.
And here I am, it's going good.
I'm passionate.
I'm committed, but it's not yetgenerating the income that makes me
(22:22):
feel safe and stable and secure at home.
And I think about Maslow's hierarchyof needs, and that, bottom need of
that stability of, food, shelter,safety, we can't do the upper
things, the creative and inspiringand finding our full fulfillment,
when the foundation is rocky, right?
And so we need to create safety.
(22:42):
And so if that is pausing, if that istaking on a part time job, if that is,
any of those things, I think it's still animportant part of the puzzle because then
you're reestablishing that foundation ofsafety so that you can then, okay, good.
We got a nest egg.
Now my husband's got that next job.
We've got a little bit more wiggle room.
We can safely move forwardand continue to build.
(23:04):
And in the meantime, you're learningand you're still growing and evolving
this idea in your head, even ifyou're not actively engaged in that
private practice that you started.
Very much and if anything, thathelped me establish what I feel
like I'm worth as a clinician.
I was able to focus onbeing an awesome therapist.
I was able to take myselfout of the equation in that
(23:27):
because it gets personal, right?
Like when someone doesn't bookyou, it can feel so personal.
And especially when like they'repaying their, like their payment to
you is helping you pay your bills.
Yeah.
So that becoming just the therapistfor that year, almost reestablished my
(23:49):
own connection with myself and beinglike, okay, like I know my work now.
I feel like reallygrounded in my skillset.
I feel really centered inwho I am as a therapist.
And now from this place, now Ican do something if I choose.
That's smart.
And was it a pelvic healthclinic you were working at?
(24:10):
It was.
And that's such good training, right?
If you're coming from that pedsenvironment, just even just
those natural flows of how are webooking, billing, communicating,
just what's that flow of a session.
It's so good to work somewhereelse to learn those things.
I did too, when I was working inhome care, my last job and I went
and did a contract for a companythat did some private rehab.
(24:33):
I was familiar with that type of work.
It was just a different company.
And I just even learned about settingup my files in such a way that I
could find things more easily or howto set up an invoice and in a way
that just made sense or what the typeof payers that I was working with
would pay for and wouldn't pay for.
And that's really great training.
Yeah, even if it's like the softskills that you're talking about,
(24:55):
like those are really valuable thingsthat sometimes you just need to know
by working in another environment.
Yeah.
Like I even learned what kind ofboss I want to be in the future.
Something I had never thought aboutuntil working at this location.
Just things that you don't think about.
So every, I feel like it when I, I'mstill in my own journey, but when I look
(25:18):
back at what felt like a failure a yearago, or in some ways a failure, right?
Like I knew that I was makinga good decision for my family
at the time, but it felt sad.
Like I was saying goodbye to a dream.
But it like looking back, itall feels like it was part of
a puzzle all along in some way.
(25:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Couldn't have known it at the time, butit was, it was part of that journey.
Do you, have you ever done aKawa model exercise for yourself?
Okay.
I just heard about this at the OT summitand I don't really, I've never done it.
Okay.
I did one more about my business than likethe life, journey of my business recently.
(26:02):
And it's really powerful.
The idea is that you're doing itabout your life as a whole, but that
you get the client to draw a river.
Many people draw it as a cross sectionof a river, like you if a river is going
this way, you cut it as a cross section,but I liked mine as more of a meandering
down a mountain sort of diagram.
(26:24):
And there are different elements.
and clients can actually determine whatdifferent elements, symbolize, but
there's this sort of general idea thatthe water represents that life flow.
And then there are the banksthat are a bit more stable,
though they do shape over time.
There are curves, there are boulders,there's driftwood, and all of these
(26:48):
represent different elements of thingsthat kind of are influencing our lives,
positively, negatively, or otherwise,it's not about creating positive or
negative associations, really, it'sjust about what is there, and how
different things impact your life.
So I chose to do it for my business.
From the start of my business to, andactually it just evolved intuitively
(27:08):
too, I wasn't sure what this wasgoing to do, but it was like, okay,
I was trying to understand whereI was with my business and looking
back to where I came from, where mybusiness started really told the tale.
And so I, would you like me to tell you?
I want to see if youfeel comfortable sharing.
I do.
I do.
So a lot of our listenerswon't be able to see the video.
(27:30):
I do have, my podcastsare up on YouTube as well.
So if a person wanted to go looking.
But I, when I started my business, itwas when my dad was dying, actually,
and it that was I had determineddecided to start my business and then
my dad became quickly ill in 2012actually started my business in 2007.
(27:51):
But I shifted all into my businessin 2011 and my dad became ill
and died in the summer of 2012.
And so when I was starting, there wasthis sense of, oh, wow like I have the
flexibility to be able to be with him andbe able to take some of my work with me.
I have the flexibility to thenbe home and be with my children.
(28:12):
And I was really appreciating theflexibility, but it was also hard
too because my siblings couldtake some time off of work and
the bills might still get paid.
Whereas I, and my siblings worked forthe same company as my dad all as well.
So there was a lot of understandingthere, whereas I was like, if I'm not
working, I'm not billing anything.
And so it was a little bit tricky.
And I was a parent.
But at the time my priorities wereflexibility in time and work, not
(28:36):
feeling worried about money,having flexibility with my kids.
And then there came as it it turned acorner around the pandemic, but there
were other things going on at the time.
So I had been wanting to shift fromthe type of work I had been doing
for the few years before that.
So I if we're talking 2012 to2020, there was eight years
(28:58):
of, fairly stable business.
And then there was this twist where Ihad been wanting to make some changes.
I had Marie Kondoed my, done an exercisewhere I was like, what brings me joy
and what doesn't and what is exhausting.
I did that in the summer of 2019.
And was wanting to make changes,but I just kept the momentum.
The river was just going and I didn'tfeel like I could shape the river at all.
(29:19):
It just kept going and going, eventhough I had these ideas of things I
wanted to change and they'd float bybecause I was on just riding the river.
The river was in charge andthen the pandemic, boulder.
There was a disruption in myreferral sources, boulder.
My husband was laid off, boulder.
And I needed to turn my river.
(29:40):
And so I, you might not necessarilybe able to see it, but up in here,
pandemic disruption in referralsources, my husband's layoff.
And so I engaged, I startedfloating on a bit of a driftwood,
a social media driftwood.
So I engaged and I wasjust like what's out there?
Let's connect with people.
People are needing connection.
I also saw from my mental health workwith people who have been off work for
(30:03):
a long time that when people are offwork, losing routine has a negative
impact on people's mental health.
So I was definitely anticipatingif we're going to be off for a long
time, there's going to be a bunchof people that had been holding
it together who aren't anymore.
People need to maintain somesort of routine, some sort of
occupational engagement in,we know these things, right?
So I was like what can I put out into theworld that, is on bringing my expertise
(30:27):
to what the world needs right now.
So I started puttingsome things out there.
But I also became isolated,but making it work learning.
I was enthusiastic.
I was chipper.
I was pitching in, I was learning.
I was expanding.
I felt like I had something tocontribute and there was a lot
of flexibility in my business.
And then I said, at that point,it was like there was possibility
(30:48):
and it's okay if it's not yetthriving in the new direction.
Nobody was thriving.
It was this kind of like safezone to experiment and just
see what happens out there.
And with enthusiasm andcuriosity, that was really fun.
And then there came a point furtherdown the river where I became more
tired and the economy shifted.
(31:09):
And so I've got this, here where it'stalking about this, these banks of the
economy changing, me feeling fatigued,
social, and I don't even know whatthat says, social media fatigue.
I was tired of showing up on social media.
There was that going on as well.
And so I was trying to focus onloving my people and float on
(31:32):
that driftwood for a little while.
And then the current slowed and Iwas trying, I was tired, but I was
trying to speed up the current.
And so as like walking these thingsand I don't know how this works.
diagrams gonna end, but Inoticed that I was tired.
The current was slower and Iwas putting in more effort.
What am I doing?
What's not working?
(31:52):
Trying to solve this problem.
Why was this part of my practice slower?
I still was busy with my mentalhealth work, but I was trying to
do more of this coaching work.
There was judgments of there'sa boulder here shouldn't I
be more successful by now?
Then I pause for a bit.
I produce less, do what you love, revise.
I was trying to do that all whilestill judging and going, but
(32:13):
the river should be going faster.
How do I get the river going faster?
And that was what was exhausting me.
So I ended up coming to this conclusionthat I wrote on the banks that
says you can't speed up the river.
It is what it is.
Let the river carry you, your effortsto change it are exhausting you.
And it was this, yeah.
And then how has thatrevelation impacted you since?
(32:39):
So I keep it on my wall beside my deskas a bit of an anchor and a reminder.
And it's helped me to focus on,okay, so when my nervous system is
feeling dysregulated, it's this senseof trying to hurry up the river.
And from that place, I get intofrantic, busy work that doesn't serve
(32:59):
me and it doesn't lead to more work.
It just leads to more time spentworking and not being regulated.
So I'm shifting back and certainly it'snot like I'm like, Oh, and now that
I know this, I'm doing it all right.
It's that, how our nervous systemswork, they creep up and you're
like, what's going on here?
You're back.
Why are we doing this again?
(33:20):
There's that anchoring point.
So something I've been doing actuallymore recently is recognizing that
I could spend all day trying to bebusier and that's not effective.
And so how can I work with the timesof day where I feel most natural
energy, the most creative energy,which tends to be early morning for me.
(33:41):
And then how do I not just start earlyand then end up working till four?
Because why could I just check out at two?
That just feels irresponsible.
But instead I'm actually insertingsome exercise in the morning.
So I got a gym membership.
And I'm working towards having this blockat about 10:30 in the morning where I
go to the gym and so I'll have done somegreat creative work at that point, go to
(34:02):
the gym and maybe I do client work in theafternoon, or, but that idea of inserting
something that's good for my health,good for my nervous system, good for my
energy levels, good for my ADHD, it's
really, the exercise is thecure all, didn't you know?
I think it takes a lot of awarenessto be able to identify those barriers,
(34:23):
because if you're really in the thickof it, sometimes it can be really
hard to see those things as barriersor to see what's happening, to take
yourself out of the equation a littlebit and see and start to notice.
And I think that's a reallyimportant thing that we
should be doing all the time.
Yeah.
I definitely use, I attribute Thatawareness to my ACT training, I use
(34:48):
a lot of acceptance and commitmenttherapy, which is truly about getting
really present with the experiences.
What am I feeling in this moment?
What am I thinking in this moment?
What is this getting, just leaninginto it rather going, oh no, that
feels bad, must avoid the things thatfeel bad, but go, oh, that's what
is, what, why, what's going on there?
What part of it, like feeling thelayers and the complexity of it so
(35:11):
that from that curious place, wecan then make intentional choices.
Ooh, I really like that.
How do you get, it sounds likeyou have a lot of self awareness.
What do you, what helps you with that?
For me, it's about being able to, Ithink that I struggle with the self
doubt sally kind of deal, right?
(35:31):
Was it you that said that?
That's Lin- we talk, Lindsey and I talk alot about her self-doubt Sally, mine, my
self-doubt comes in a different flavor.
But yeah, that's her term.
I am, and I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson that does this, but for me,
a big hurdle is and continues tobe, looking inside for decisions and
(35:51):
choices rather than looking outside,looking everybody else knows better
than me and really, really feelinglike I'm the professional of myself.
And with that, I've really learnedhow to tune in somatically.
Where do I feel things in my body andwhere do they live and where is that
coming from and how to really tune inwardsBecause for me, my emotions are, and
(36:19):
everybody's emotions are transient, right?
They can come and go so fast,but there's a reason behind that.
What can we, what does itfeel like in your body?
What's holding on?
What's going on?
Why are you looking outside for this?
Where is this living in your body?
And, but that's for me, like these somaticpractices have been really helpful.
(36:40):
So if you detect, can you giveus an example of when you discover
that and then what you do with that?
Okay so we'll use like areally like businessy choice.
So I am restarting my private practicehere in my new state and I have played
with price points in the past a lotand I have come to a conclusion on
(37:05):
my price point and it feels reallygrounding to say my price point.
And it's been much lower and I'vesaid it oh, services cost this much.
Like I it's been significantly lower andI haven't had the same conviction in my
(37:25):
statement and I've come across this pricepoint that like, I feel really grounded
and really confident saying it, and it'shigher than before, but it doesn't matter.
I feel like it, almost feelslike from a place of a center
rather than, like a self-doubt.
(37:46):
And I know other peoplecharge less, right?
If I looked out outside.
And it is good to know what otherpeople are charging, but at the end of
the day you have to feel good aboutyour price point, you have to know
your worth, and you have to know howdoes that price feel in your body,
you're the one that has to say it.
(38:06):
Yeah.
And if you stumble over it every timeand sound like you did when you said
my prices are, it's the service costthis much that people don't like,
yeah, they feel that energy from you.
Yeah.
So just one thing I, that's a littlebit tricky about that is that self doubt
Sally can be really convincing that she's
giving you the bad feeling ooh, that's tooexpensive, are you sure, I feel squeamish
(38:31):
in my tummy charging that much, wouldn'tit be safer to charge something less?
How do you know the difference betweenthe self doubt vibe and that place
that say, no, this isn't quite right?
That's a good question.
I think for me it is about sitting withit for a little bit longer, where before I
(38:52):
would react a lot quicker and now I'll sitwith things a little bit longer and see
how they feel with a little bit of time.
Yeah, so that self doubt Sally,that's protective, is more reactive
in the moment, whereas sitting withit longer is a truer sense of it.
When you're out of, yeah, I don't haveto do this right now, so there's nothing
(39:14):
to protect me from how does this feel?
Yeah, exactly.
And building on that sameexample, I saw my dad over the
weekend and I told him my prices.
He's an entrepreneur himself.
And he was like, haveyou thought about this?
Maybe that's too high, maybeit's this, just giving me
other things to think about.
And, that self doubt Sally, thatperson looking everywhere else but
(39:35):
inside, and to have your dad, whocould be a role model, and, could
immediately be like, oh, lower my prices.
And instead, just letting.
Maybe he is right.
Let's sit with that.
Let's see how that feels in acouple of days, that there's
not really a rush to make thisdecision that it gets to be mine.
And ultimately, as an entrepreneur,you get to make these choices
(40:01):
every step of the way.
It's like a gift and a curse.
That if you wanted to changeyour prices, you get to do that.
Good for you.
So the end goal thing isthat I haven't decided, but I
will and I will sit with it.
You will.
Yeah, absolutely.
In good time.
And I think we often think we need to rushthings and trusting the intuition of an
(40:22):
intentional pause is really important.
Yeah.
There are some questions thatI ask everybody on the podcast.
May I ask them to you?
Yes, of course.
What does being brave mean to you?
I think being brave means beingauthentically you and seeing yourself
(40:42):
in all of your shades and colors.
Yes, and not necessarilymasking them I'm hearing.
Yeah, so being able to evolve andgrow and look at the sides of you
that need to evolve and grow as welland still being that compassionate
amazing person that you are, but seeingyourself for who you are and being you.
(41:04):
Awesome.
That's beautiful.
And what is somethingbrave you've done recently?
I think we talked about a fewthings, but what would you pick
out as the one you'd talk about?
The most recent brave thing I did wasto present and to launch the Pelvic
Health Clubhouse and to present itto my colleagues at the OTs in Pelvic
Health Summit That felt incrediblybrave and incredibly vulnerable.
(41:29):
And I feel like I've grownso much from that already.
And you're brave too.
You sent me a message.
You said, hey, can we talk?
And you said, I would loveto be on your podcast.
And here you are.
It's true.
I'm really glad you did.
How would you like to see OTsget a little bit more brave?
Yeah, I think we need tostop asking for permission.
(41:50):
as OTs need to really know ourworth and where we can use that
in lots of different areas.
And if there's an area that interests you,that you're passionate about, you don't
need, sure, there's probably coursework.
I'm not saying you should justnot sure be proficient, right?
(42:11):
You should do what you need to do tobe able to practice in that field.
But you shouldn't be waiting aroundfor someone else to tell you that
you can that if it's in our scope,sometimes you have to create your own
door and walk through it yourself.
Absolutely.
And that's it.
There's that sense ofprofessional responsibility.
(42:32):
We're not going totally rogueand out of scope, but within
scope, there's so much we can do.
And just because somebody elseisn't already doing this thing, it's
something that we're qualified to do.
We've got the skills to door learning the skills to do.
There doesn't have to be a pavedyellow brick road that says this is
the path because somebody createdthat path somewhere along the way.
(42:54):
Why not you?
Yeah, exactly.
And where can people find you justto connect, but also how do they find
out about the Pelvic Health Clubhouse?
Yeah.
I write, I call them pelvic love notes.
So you can subscribe to my freenewsletter where I talk lots
of holistic and pelvic health.
You can find me and my, like the blog willhave past love notes and you can subscribe
(43:20):
there at trianglepelvichealth.com.
Okay.
You can find me on social mediaat Triangle Pelvic Health.
You can also find the Pelvic HealthClubhouse at pelvichealthclubhouse.com.
Great.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much for being here.
This has been a really rich conversation.
Thank you so much for having me.
(43:40):
I hope that we can inspire other OTsto step into their bravest selves.
I think we are.
I think we just did....
Thank you so much for tuning intothis episode of The BRAVE OT Podcast.
Now, before you go, I want tomake sure you stay and listen to
this last part because there'sa time sensitive announcement.
If Dana's journey of building somethingnew and stepping into the unknown
(44:04):
resonates with you, I want to remindyou that you don't have to do it alone.
Running a business, whether it'slaunching a new project, growing your
practice, or taking a BRAVE step, requiresmore than just professional skills.
It's about aligning your work withyour values, finding clarity in your
direction and building a businessthat feels sustainable and fulfilling.
(44:24):
Really, you're faced with a lot ofinternal work when you build something
and kind of level up professionally.
And that's why I createdACTivate Vitality.
It's a group coaching programspecifically designed for OT business
owners who see the need to integratetheir personal and professional growth,
break free from perfectionism and overfunctioning, and create a business
that supports the life that they want.
(44:44):
It's where you learn to embracevulnerability, step into your
values, and thrive with the supportof a like-mindedd community.
We've recently made a shift from alwaysbeing open for enrollment to accepting
new clients only during specific periods.
And guess what?
It's time right now, if you'relistening to this in October of 2024.
Enrollment is open until the end ofthe month, So if you're feeling stuck,
(45:08):
overwhelmed, struggling with boundaries,overworking, maybe perfectionism's
really getting to you or you're justready for a more sustainable way to
work and live, I invite you to book afree Clarity Call with me between now
and October 31st, this is your chanceto explore how ACTivate Vitality can
support your next BRAVE step in business,which is a next BRAVE step in your life.
(45:30):
if you've created a business, that alignswith your priorities, your values, your
goals, it needs to serve your life.
It needs to not be sitting ona scale in opposition to life.
This business is a part of your life.
It should add to your life,not take away from it.
There's a link in theshow notes to book a call.
And let's find your flow together.
(45:50):
I'm only taking 12 people this round.
And this is the lastenrollment period for 2024.
So don't wait.
This is your time.
I really look forwardto connecting with you.
Make sure you checkout Dana's information.
Check out the Pelvic HealthClubhouse, follow us on social media.
I'll put all those linksin the show notes as well.
(46:11):
as always, be brave OTs.....
We call it failing upwards.
Where, if you're in the moment, itcan feel like you're failing, right?
You can feel like you're not makingthese strides towards what you think,
but you keep moving and with thismovement and continued momentum, when
you look back at your journey, you'rerealizing like, oh, this all makes sense.
(00:21):
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
(00:43):
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
Hey there, BRAVE OTs.
It's Carlyn here with anotherepisode of The BRAVE OT Podcast.
(01:03):
And today we are diving intowhat it really means to build
something new from scratch, bothpersonally and professionally.
My guest, Dana Solomon is anoccupational therapist who has
bravely stepped into the world ofpelvic health and entrepreneurship by
creating the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
She answered the call to solvea problem that many OTs in
public health were voicing.
(01:26):
Today we talk about her journey, thevulnerability that comes with launching
a project that isn't perfect, and how sheembraced the concept of failing upward,
learning and growing with every step.
Dana's story will resonate withany OT who's ever felt the pull
to create something new, whetherit's a practice, a program, or a
whole new path in our profession.
(01:47):
This episode is all aboutnavigating self doubt.
You might have heard of it,maybe not, I don't know.
Finding Your Flow, you'llfind an echo of the Kawa model
episode that preceded this one.
And making bold moves withoutwaiting for permission.
We'll talk about how bravery inOT isn't about knowing it all.
(02:07):
It's about being willing to tryand evolve through the process.
So if you're ready to be inspired andtake action on that project, you've
been dreaming about, this one's for you.
I met Dana at the PelvicHealth Summit in 2023.
interestingly, we recorded thisdiscussion close to a year ago.
And I didn't listen to it beforerecording episode 31, Find Your Flow.
(02:32):
explore your OT businessthrough the Kawa model.
So if you want to learn more aboutthis Kawa journey that I described
somewhere in the middle of this podcastepisode, go listen to episode 31 next.
I think you'll really enjoy it.
Before we get into today's episode,I'd like to introduce our sponsor
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about, you wear a couple hats, don't you?
Tell us about your hats.
I wear many hats, I am one to pick uplots of hats, in fact, sometimes I pick
up too many and I need to put them down.
(03:56):
You are one of my people, Ilike it, I like lots of hats.
So I am an occupational therapistthat specializes in pelvic health,
with a background in pediatrics.
I'm also a yoga teacher and I am thecreator of the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
that's a really exciting project.
(04:16):
That's what we met about when we metat the Pelvic Health Summit in Phoenix.
You were sharing about your clubhouse andit sounds like a really interesting thing.
I'm excited to be able to talk about that.
Yeah, that was one of thescariest profound experiences of
my professional career thus far.
(04:37):
Really?
Can you tell us more aboutwhat was scary and profound?
That experience left me feeling sovulnerable and exposed and it was,
I just want, so the Pelvic HealthClubhouse is this digital platform
and I'm an occupational therapist.
I'm not a coder.
I'm not a software developer.
(04:58):
I'm not in tech.
And I created this thing andI was presenting it to my
colleagues and it wasn't perfect.
And I didn't even know if the technologywas going to work, not from just
the internal level of the tech, butlike me connecting it to a computer,
(05:19):
like a monitor to show people.
There were so many unknowns and I feltso exposed and it was also the most
amazing experience because I was ableto share something that I had worked
so hard on with my colleagues andput it out there in this amazing way.
(05:42):
that's huge.
And there are so many layers there too.
I noticed from being at the Pelvic HealthSummit and from being in Lindsey's world
as well, that the OTs just for beingin pelvic health also feel like this
sense that in itself is brave, right?
That it's stepping into this area ofpractice that OTs very much belong
in, but hasn't historically beenunderstood to be be an expert in.
(06:07):
And so that in itself is brave and you'regoing further and going, okay, and I
have a lot of resources to share and I'mgoing to put it on this tech platform and
resources are yourspecialty, but tech isn't.
So many layers of brave.
I'm so proud of you.
I'm so happy for you.
Thank you.
It's been a wild ride.
and did you, were you warmly received?
(06:31):
Yes.
Oh, goodness, yes.
So tell me what is this clubhouse?
Like, how does it work?
What's it all about?
Yeah.
So I got into pelvic health about threeyears ago and, I was so excited and I
was reading everything I possibly could.
And just drinking from the fire hose ofinformation and obsessed with it all.
(06:52):
But I found that everythingwas really disorganized.
Everything was scatteredacross the internet.
And I kept seeing thesame questions pop up.
Does anybody have this research article?
Does anybody have this resource?
Does anyone have this thatthey can share with me?
And my brain likes everything inone place because it just gets
(07:13):
to be, it takes time and energy.
And I had the time of COVID, the pandemic,to play around and learn how to make
things so I created these resources, thatmy colleagues seemed to really like.
And so I started to sellthem and share them.
But it still didn't feel like enough.
(07:34):
I felt like everything was still not quiteas organized as I would want it to be.
It felt like there were topics everywhere.
It just felt very spread out.
And was this when you were sellingthem before you had them on a
platform, was it like this many dollarsfor a PDF download sort of thing?
Yeah.
And then people wanted to beable to customize it to their
(07:56):
own logo and their own practice.
And it just, it's all things thattake a lot of time for people to do.
And at the end of the day, we're notpaid to be copywriters and we're not
paid and we're not trained to use thesecomputer programs and it takes time
and energy, and it usually goes tothe bottom of our list of things to do.
(08:20):
So when we work with clients in pelvichealth, there's a lot of education.
There's a ton of it becauseit's all new to so many people.
And you want to be able to sharethings with clients that help them feel
like this information is digestible.
Yeah.
And
accessible.
(08:41):
So when people started buyingmy resources, I had a feeling
that there was something there.
. And I also make videos.
And I've just wanted everything inone place and easy to send to others.
So I started creating this platformcalled the Pelvic Health Clubhouse.
(09:01):
And it is a place that has pelvichealth resources organized by
topic and by type of resource,with functional illustrations.
Easy, client centered language,concise videos and everything's
under five minutes so you can showsomeone how to do something that's not
(09:22):
really easy to find on the internet.
And then all these guides andresources that can then be added,
like you can add your own logo andyour own practice name when you send
things digitally to your clients.
That's really cool.
so a therapist might be, they might doan initial session and rather than have
(09:43):
100 handouts in their little bag, theymight do that assessment, make some
recommendations and then email them thedigital materials that they might need.
Maybe they need a video that reexplains what the education they got.
Maybe it's a, an illustrationof how they might do this.
Am I getting that right?
Is that how they use it?
(10:04):
Yeah, they can print it if they want,but I, feel like we're in such a digital
age that people will often email clients.
So that way it's just reallyeasily sent to clients.
So we're saving time and energyon the therapist, but still
providing such quality of care.
Amazing.
That must have taken 1million hours to put together.
(10:28):
It is.
It's another hat that I nowwear, which is which is CEO.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just like from everything from,I'm just even imagining how
these illustrations came about.
And not just an illustration, butan illustration then on a page that
makes sense and that is easy to read.
And then also having to put thatin a way that it's downloadable
(10:50):
there are so many layers.
Yes.
There's been a lot andI'm still working it out.
It's still a work inprogress in many ways.
Yeah.
So people are buying this, peopleare using the resources, people
are then giving you feedback.
I bet you're evolving as youhear how people are using things.
Yeah, so I've gotten suchgreat feedback so far.
(11:12):
I have, I think I offer this free trial.
So I have a 50 percent conversion rate,which is pretty high statistically
for a trial to conversion.
And another thing that's important tome is I want people to enthusiastically
opt in and not worry about optingout, so people actually have to
sign up for the paid membership,
(11:33):
versus like a lot of times you'llsign up for things and then you
realize three months later thatyour credit card's been charged.
So there's this I'mconsenting to this platform.
And so there's this 50 percent conversionrate that I'm so excited about considering
this is less than a month old and,I am getting amazing feedback about
(11:57):
how people are using it andthen also what they want to see
and how they want it to grow.
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
Because as with any therapeuticapproach, there are many ways
to approach the same problem.
So you don't want it to be a ifthey have this problem, here's
your treatment plan, right?
It's what are the resources thattherapist who's making their clinical
judgment in the context of that personin their environment and what's going
(12:19):
on that they can choose from a variety,almost I guess like a chef, right?
Choosing from a variety of ingredientsrather than being given a recipe.
Exactly.
I want this to feel like the therapistshave control and can choose what makes
sense for that person in front of them.
Yeah.
So you said that you have a lotof different hats and You have a
(12:41):
pelvic health practice, you do yogainstruction, you have built the clubhouse.
There was something else too.
I also write, I write, I havelike my little newsletter that
I can send out to people too.
That's great.
So have there been a variety of seasonsthrough your career where you find you're
(13:02):
called to evolve in a certain direction?
That would be a reallyeloquent way to say it.
I, I feel like a more realisticexplanation would be that I have
thrown many darts at the dartboard.
Okay.
Okay.
And sometimes I am called to want, orcircumstances has led me into certain
(13:27):
directions, but I think that at thebeginning, or three years ago when I left
working in pediatrics, I was just throwingdarts at the dartboard of what's me?
What's my career?
What's me?
What feels right?
What feels sustainable?
I did a lot of everything
and
that was three years agowas early in the pandemic.
(13:50):
Yeah, I guess it was earlier than that.
So let's say four, four years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you knew something needed tochange, but in which direction
did you want to change?
Like trying to figure thatout was some trial and error.
Yes.
I think that what, whether thisis right or wrong, I think that
(14:12):
having lots of different experiencesallowed me to know what I liked
about them and what I wanted to keep.
Like whether it was like little toolshere and there and what things I
wanted to let go of and make my owncareer path based on those experiences.
I did something similar, and I, inhindsight, refer to it as Marie Kondo ing
(14:35):
my OT practice, that sense of looking atall the parts of my work, and looking at
the ones that brought me joy, and lookingat the ones that I felt really dragged
down by and being able to go, okay whatare the clues in this stuff that I love?
And what are the clues in the stuffthat I feel really dragged down by?
(14:56):
And how can I craft my next phase orthis evolution so that it does continue
to feel energizing and motivating.
And it can look from the outsidelike darts on a wall, right?
But truly, we're moremethodical than that, right?
There's that sense of, okay, so if Ireally one of the things was that I,
(15:20):
working with clients who there might bea third party payer involved, sometimes
that can be a complicating factor forwhy they may be struggling to move
forward or why there might be fearto move forward or things like that.
And I was feeling called to not haveas much complication, like just me
and the client, what do they need?
What, how can I help them?
(15:41):
What do, and so there was that sortof sense of, huh, which of my clients
are more like take the ball and runwith it, which kind of led me to
coaching as an area of interest.
And, but it was like, I don't
think
that's exactly what I want.
So I had to experiment with it.
I had to try that out.
I had to try on different niches,try on different things and.
(16:01):
And you go, oh yeah, that wasn't it.
This was it.
And down this path of tryingthis and maybe choose your
own adventure a little bit.
I ended up here where I'm coachingother occupational therapy, business
owners, and I love, love, lovethat, but it was not a smooth path.
(16:21):
And I didn't know this was theend point when I set out on it.
Is there some of thatin your story as well?
Yeah.
So you're reminding me of a termthat a friend and I use together.
We call it failing upwards.
Where,
if you're in the moment, it canfeel like you're failing, right?
You can feel like you're not makingthese strides towards what you think,
(16:43):
but you keep moving and with thismovement and continued momentum, when
you look back at your journey, you'rerealizing like, oh, this all makes sense.
I feel like with me, I workedin pediatrics and I was working
with families oftentimes
in
pediatric land, you verymuch work with families.
And I realized in this post NICU settingor early intervention setting with young
(17:07):
children under the age of three, that mycare was really directed towards baby, and
I wasn't really focusing on the family,like I would do education but feeling
like I was losing the connection thereand it wasn't till I started asking moms,
Caregivers, but moms, about them andtheir needs and what's going on with
(17:29):
their sleep, with their nutrition.
I started just asking more questions andrealizing how interconnected that is.
And that led me into maternal health.
So And I started learning and learningabout maternal health and then I
found pelvic health and then I doveinto pelvic health and nobody would
offer me a job, with pelvic health.
So the only way I felt like I could dowhat I wanted to do at the time because
(17:54):
I'm stubborn and decided that nobodywas going to tell me when to start my
career, I opened up a private practicewith essentially no pelvic health
experience and not even experiencedreally that much in working with adults.
That is brave.
So I found mentors to work with and Ifound people like you've got to find
(18:21):
your tribe and then was able to reallyput the stepping stones like build the
foundations and from there I was ableto continue to just weave a path right
and it sometimes it looked like meteaching baby and me yoga and sometimes
it looked like me trying this workoutfor moms and babies and realizing,
(18:45):
all right, what about that works?
What about that doesn't?
And then sometimes it looked likeme, being a content creator for other
therapists and what about that did I love?
What about that didn't I like?
And it just I felt like I constantlywas putting myself into these situations
where I kept finding what I liked aboutthings, what I didn't like about things.
(19:06):
I think where I found the piecesthat I liked is where I wasn't asking
for somebody else to tell me what todo or when to do it, but like, how
do I make those decisions myself?
So there's a theme of, not waitingfor permission, is something I've
heard you say, more directly too,but you're hinting at it like that
(19:28):
you weren't going to wait forsomebody to open the door for you.
You had enough inner drive to go,no, this is something important.
I'm going to find a way to do it.
I'm going to be curious and exploratoryand try things and keep going, but
you're not waiting for somebody tosay, and here's your entry point.
I think it's really nice when thathappens, I just don't think we can
(19:50):
wait for that moment because youcan be waiting a really long time.
And I think that growth and evolutionisn't because of somebody else's work.
It's because of your own.
Yeah.
What I'm hearing that's differentin your story from what I hear
from a lot of the OTs that I help
is that, and maybe tell me if this waspart of your experience, but a lot of the
(20:14):
OTs who would like to take a brave move,like you have and go and try something
that might not already exist or createsomething that maybe other people might
be doing, but they're creating their own
maybe it's a privatepractice or something.
I hear a lot of OTs saying, Butwhat if I fail and I'm not confident
enough and I might screw that upand what experience do I even have?
(20:35):
Why?
Who am I to do that?
And then that stops them.
And I'm hearing from you that you did it.
Did any of those same doubtscome in before you move forward?
Every day.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So at one point in my journey, I,reached a point where I was meeting some
(20:55):
of my goals and meeting my immediategoals with opening my practice.
And I was working at, I finallygot myself a clinic job.
So I was working part time at aclinic, part time in my practice,
part time doing this and this.
And that was great for a while.
But when I stopped getting somediscovery calls for a month, or I
stopped getting new evaluations,that's like when doubt sets in.
(21:17):
And there were other circumstancesgoing on in my life that, my husband
was finishing a PhD program, werelied on my income, very much.
I ended up putting my practice on hold.
I like to call it like a snooze button.
And, it felt like a failure thatfelt like a, like I had failed.
(21:37):
But looking back, like this is, I guessthis is what I mean by failing upwards was
in the moment I would have said I failed.
And I, failed at openinga private practice.
I failed at running it.
It wasn't successful, but lookingback, it really does feel like a snooze
button because I was able to supportmy family and then we moved and now
(21:59):
I'm restarting my private practice.
And I think about it interms of safety to right.
So I've talked about this withsome of my clients who have
needed to leave a job becauseit was absolutely killing them.
It was burning them out.
It was toxic.
So they're like, all right, I'mall in on this private practice.
And here I am, it's going good.
I'm passionate.
I'm committed, but it's not yetgenerating the income that makes me
(22:22):
feel safe and stable and secure at home.
And I think about Maslow's hierarchyof needs, and that, bottom need of
that stability of, food, shelter,safety, we can't do the upper
things, the creative and inspiringand finding our full fulfillment,
when the foundation is rocky, right?
And so we need to create safety.
(22:42):
And so if that is pausing, if that istaking on a part time job, if that is,
any of those things, I think it's still animportant part of the puzzle because then
you're reestablishing that foundation ofsafety so that you can then, okay, good.
We got a nest egg.
Now my husband's got that next job.
We've got a little bit more wiggle room.
We can safely move forwardand continue to build.
(23:04):
And in the meantime, you're learningand you're still growing and evolving
this idea in your head, even ifyou're not actively engaged in that
private practice that you started.
Very much and if anything, thathelped me establish what I feel
like I'm worth as a clinician.
I was able to focus onbeing an awesome therapist.
I was able to take myselfout of the equation in that
(23:27):
because it gets personal, right?
Like when someone doesn't bookyou, it can feel so personal.
And especially when like they'repaying their, like their payment to
you is helping you pay your bills.
Yeah.
So that becoming just the therapistfor that year, almost reestablished my
(23:49):
own connection with myself and beinglike, okay, like I know my work now.
I feel like reallygrounded in my skillset.
I feel really centered inwho I am as a therapist.
And now from this place, now Ican do something if I choose.
That's smart.
And was it a pelvic healthclinic you were working at?
(24:10):
It was.
And that's such good training, right?
If you're coming from that pedsenvironment, just even just
those natural flows of how are webooking, billing, communicating,
just what's that flow of a session.
It's so good to work somewhereelse to learn those things.
I did too, when I was working inhome care, my last job and I went
and did a contract for a companythat did some private rehab.
(24:33):
I was familiar with that type of work.
It was just a different company.
And I just even learned about settingup my files in such a way that I
could find things more easily or howto set up an invoice and in a way
that just made sense or what the typeof payers that I was working with
would pay for and wouldn't pay for.
And that's really great training.
Yeah, even if it's like the softskills that you're talking about,
(24:55):
like those are really valuable thingsthat sometimes you just need to know
by working in another environment.
Yeah.
Like I even learned what kind ofboss I want to be in the future.
Something I had never thought aboutuntil working at this location.
Just things that you don't think about.
So every, I feel like it when I, I'mstill in my own journey, but when I look
(25:18):
back at what felt like a failure a yearago, or in some ways a failure, right?
Like I knew that I was makinga good decision for my family
at the time, but it felt sad.
Like I was saying goodbye to a dream.
But it like looking back, itall feels like it was part of
a puzzle all along in some way.
(25:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Couldn't have known it at the time, butit was, it was part of that journey.
Do you, have you ever done aKawa model exercise for yourself?
Okay.
I just heard about this at the OT summitand I don't really, I've never done it.
Okay.
I did one more about my business than likethe life, journey of my business recently.
(26:02):
And it's really powerful.
The idea is that you're doing itabout your life as a whole, but that
you get the client to draw a river.
Many people draw it as a cross sectionof a river, like you if a river is going
this way, you cut it as a cross section,but I liked mine as more of a meandering
down a mountain sort of diagram.
(26:24):
And there are different elements.
and clients can actually determine whatdifferent elements, symbolize, but
there's this sort of general idea thatthe water represents that life flow.
And then there are the banksthat are a bit more stable,
though they do shape over time.
There are curves, there are boulders,there's driftwood, and all of these
(26:48):
represent different elements of thingsthat kind of are influencing our lives,
positively, negatively, or otherwise,it's not about creating positive or
negative associations, really, it'sjust about what is there, and how
different things impact your life.
So I chose to do it for my business.
From the start of my business to, andactually it just evolved intuitively
(27:08):
too, I wasn't sure what this wasgoing to do, but it was like, okay,
I was trying to understand whereI was with my business and looking
back to where I came from, where mybusiness started really told the tale.
And so I, would you like me to tell you?
I want to see if youfeel comfortable sharing.
I do.
I do.
So a lot of our listenerswon't be able to see the video.
(27:30):
I do have, my podcastsare up on YouTube as well.
So if a person wanted to go looking.
But I, when I started my business, itwas when my dad was dying, actually,
and it that was I had determineddecided to start my business and then
my dad became quickly ill in 2012actually started my business in 2007.
(27:51):
But I shifted all into my businessin 2011 and my dad became ill
and died in the summer of 2012.
And so when I was starting, there wasthis sense of, oh, wow like I have the
flexibility to be able to be with him andbe able to take some of my work with me.
I have the flexibility to thenbe home and be with my children.
(28:12):
And I was really appreciating theflexibility, but it was also hard
too because my siblings couldtake some time off of work and
the bills might still get paid.
Whereas I, and my siblings worked forthe same company as my dad all as well.
So there was a lot of understandingthere, whereas I was like, if I'm not
working, I'm not billing anything.
And so it was a little bit tricky.
And I was a parent.
But at the time my priorities wereflexibility in time and work, not
(28:36):
feeling worried about money,having flexibility with my kids.
And then there came as it it turned acorner around the pandemic, but there
were other things going on at the time.
So I had been wanting to shift fromthe type of work I had been doing
for the few years before that.
So I if we're talking 2012 to2020, there was eight years
(28:58):
of, fairly stable business.
And then there was this twist where Ihad been wanting to make some changes.
I had Marie Kondoed my, done an exercisewhere I was like, what brings me joy
and what doesn't and what is exhausting.
I did that in the summer of 2019.
And was wanting to make changes,but I just kept the momentum.
The river was just going and I didn'tfeel like I could shape the river at all.
(29:19):
It just kept going and going, eventhough I had these ideas of things I
wanted to change and they'd float bybecause I was on just riding the river.
The river was in charge andthen the pandemic, boulder.
There was a disruption in myreferral sources, boulder.
My husband was laid off, boulder.
And I needed to turn my river.
(29:40):
And so I, you might not necessarilybe able to see it, but up in here,
pandemic disruption in referralsources, my husband's layoff.
And so I engaged, I startedfloating on a bit of a driftwood,
a social media driftwood.
So I engaged and I wasjust like what's out there?
Let's connect with people.
People are needing connection.
I also saw from my mental health workwith people who have been off work for
(30:03):
a long time that when people are offwork, losing routine has a negative
impact on people's mental health.
So I was definitely anticipatingif we're going to be off for a long
time, there's going to be a bunchof people that had been holding
it together who aren't anymore.
People need to maintain somesort of routine, some sort of
occupational engagement in,we know these things, right?
So I was like what can I put out into theworld that, is on bringing my expertise
(30:27):
to what the world needs right now.
So I started puttingsome things out there.
But I also became isolated,but making it work learning.
I was enthusiastic.
I was chipper.
I was pitching in, I was learning.
I was expanding.
I felt like I had something tocontribute and there was a lot
of flexibility in my business.
And then I said, at that point,it was like there was possibility
(30:48):
and it's okay if it's not yetthriving in the new direction.
Nobody was thriving.
It was this kind of like safezone to experiment and just
see what happens out there.
And with enthusiasm andcuriosity, that was really fun.
And then there came a point furtherdown the river where I became more
tired and the economy shifted.
(31:09):
And so I've got this, here where it'stalking about this, these banks of the
economy changing, me feeling fatigued,
social, and I don't even know whatthat says, social media fatigue.
I was tired of showing up on social media.
There was that going on as well.
And so I was trying to focus onloving my people and float on
(31:32):
that driftwood for a little while.
And then the current slowed and Iwas trying, I was tired, but I was
trying to speed up the current.
And so as like walking these thingsand I don't know how this works.
diagrams gonna end, but Inoticed that I was tired.
The current was slower and Iwas putting in more effort.
What am I doing?
What's not working?
(31:52):
Trying to solve this problem.
Why was this part of my practice slower?
I still was busy with my mentalhealth work, but I was trying to
do more of this coaching work.
There was judgments of there'sa boulder here shouldn't I
be more successful by now?
Then I pause for a bit.
I produce less, do what you love, revise.
I was trying to do that all whilestill judging and going, but
(32:13):
the river should be going faster.
How do I get the river going faster?
And that was what was exhausting me.
So I ended up coming to this conclusionthat I wrote on the banks that
says you can't speed up the river.
It is what it is.
Let the river carry you, your effortsto change it are exhausting you.
And it was this, yeah.
And then how has thatrevelation impacted you since?
(32:39):
So I keep it on my wall beside my deskas a bit of an anchor and a reminder.
And it's helped me to focus on,okay, so when my nervous system is
feeling dysregulated, it's this senseof trying to hurry up the river.
And from that place, I get intofrantic, busy work that doesn't serve
(32:59):
me and it doesn't lead to more work.
It just leads to more time spentworking and not being regulated.
So I'm shifting back and certainly it'snot like I'm like, Oh, and now that
I know this, I'm doing it all right.
It's that, how our nervous systemswork, they creep up and you're
like, what's going on here?
You're back.
Why are we doing this again?
(33:20):
There's that anchoring point.
So something I've been doing actuallymore recently is recognizing that
I could spend all day trying to bebusier and that's not effective.
And so how can I work with the timesof day where I feel most natural
energy, the most creative energy,which tends to be early morning for me.
(33:41):
And then how do I not just start earlyand then end up working till four?
Because why could I just check out at two?
That just feels irresponsible.
But instead I'm actually insertingsome exercise in the morning.
So I got a gym membership.
And I'm working towards having this blockat about 10:30 in the morning where I
go to the gym and so I'll have done somegreat creative work at that point, go to
(34:02):
the gym and maybe I do client work in theafternoon, or, but that idea of inserting
something that's good for my health,good for my nervous system, good for my
energy levels, good for my ADHD, it's
really, the exercise is thecure all, didn't you know?
I think it takes a lot of awarenessto be able to identify those barriers,
(34:23):
because if you're really in the thickof it, sometimes it can be really
hard to see those things as barriersor to see what's happening, to take
yourself out of the equation a littlebit and see and start to notice.
And I think that's a reallyimportant thing that we
should be doing all the time.
Yeah.
I definitely use, I attribute Thatawareness to my ACT training, I use
(34:48):
a lot of acceptance and commitmenttherapy, which is truly about getting
really present with the experiences.
What am I feeling in this moment?
What am I thinking in this moment?
What is this getting, just leaninginto it rather going, oh no, that
feels bad, must avoid the things thatfeel bad, but go, oh, that's what
is, what, why, what's going on there?
What part of it, like feeling thelayers and the complexity of it so
(35:11):
that from that curious place, wecan then make intentional choices.
Ooh, I really like that.
How do you get, it sounds likeyou have a lot of self awareness.
What do you, what helps you with that?
For me, it's about being able to, Ithink that I struggle with the self
doubt sally kind of deal, right?
(35:31):
Was it you that said that?
That's Lin- we talk, Lindsey and I talk alot about her self-doubt Sally, mine, my
self-doubt comes in a different flavor.
But yeah, that's her term.
I am, and I'm sure I'm not the onlyperson that does this, but for me,
a big hurdle is and continues tobe, looking inside for decisions and
(35:51):
choices rather than looking outside,looking everybody else knows better
than me and really, really feelinglike I'm the professional of myself.
And with that, I've really learnedhow to tune in somatically.
Where do I feel things in my body andwhere do they live and where is that
coming from and how to really tune inwardsBecause for me, my emotions are, and
(36:19):
everybody's emotions are transient, right?
They can come and go so fast,but there's a reason behind that.
What can we, what does itfeel like in your body?
What's holding on?
What's going on?
Why are you looking outside for this?
Where is this living in your body?
And, but that's for me, like these somaticpractices have been really helpful.
(36:40):
So if you detect, can you giveus an example of when you discover
that and then what you do with that?
Okay so we'll use like areally like businessy choice.
So I am restarting my private practicehere in my new state and I have played
with price points in the past a lotand I have come to a conclusion on
(37:05):
my price point and it feels reallygrounding to say my price point.
And it's been much lower and I'vesaid it oh, services cost this much.
Like I it's been significantly lower andI haven't had the same conviction in my
(37:25):
statement and I've come across this pricepoint that like, I feel really grounded
and really confident saying it, and it'shigher than before, but it doesn't matter.
I feel like it, almost feelslike from a place of a center
rather than, like a self-doubt.
(37:46):
And I know other peoplecharge less, right?
If I looked out outside.
And it is good to know what otherpeople are charging, but at the end of
the day you have to feel good aboutyour price point, you have to know
your worth, and you have to know howdoes that price feel in your body,
you're the one that has to say it.
(38:06):
Yeah.
And if you stumble over it every timeand sound like you did when you said
my prices are, it's the service costthis much that people don't like,
yeah, they feel that energy from you.
Yeah.
So just one thing I, that's a littlebit tricky about that is that self doubt
Sally can be really convincing that she's
giving you the bad feeling ooh, that's tooexpensive, are you sure, I feel squeamish
(38:31):
in my tummy charging that much, wouldn'tit be safer to charge something less?
How do you know the difference betweenthe self doubt vibe and that place
that say, no, this isn't quite right?
That's a good question.
I think for me it is about sitting withit for a little bit longer, where before I
(38:52):
would react a lot quicker and now I'll sitwith things a little bit longer and see
how they feel with a little bit of time.
Yeah, so that self doubt Sally,that's protective, is more reactive
in the moment, whereas sitting withit longer is a truer sense of it.
When you're out of, yeah, I don't haveto do this right now, so there's nothing
(39:14):
to protect me from how does this feel?
Yeah, exactly.
And building on that sameexample, I saw my dad over the
weekend and I told him my prices.
He's an entrepreneur himself.
And he was like, haveyou thought about this?
Maybe that's too high, maybeit's this, just giving me
other things to think about.
And, that self doubt Sally, thatperson looking everywhere else but
(39:35):
inside, and to have your dad, whocould be a role model, and, could
immediately be like, oh, lower my prices.
And instead, just letting.
Maybe he is right.
Let's sit with that.
Let's see how that feels in acouple of days, that there's
not really a rush to make thisdecision that it gets to be mine.
And ultimately, as an entrepreneur,you get to make these choices
(40:01):
every step of the way.
It's like a gift and a curse.
That if you wanted to changeyour prices, you get to do that.
Good for you.
So the end goal thing isthat I haven't decided, but I
will and I will sit with it.
You will.
Yeah, absolutely.
In good time.
And I think we often think we need to rushthings and trusting the intuition of an
(40:22):
intentional pause is really important.
Yeah.
There are some questions thatI ask everybody on the podcast.
May I ask them to you?
Yes, of course.
What does being brave mean to you?
I think being brave means beingauthentically you and seeing yourself
(40:42):
in all of your shades and colors.
Yes, and not necessarilymasking them I'm hearing.
Yeah, so being able to evolve andgrow and look at the sides of you
that need to evolve and grow as welland still being that compassionate
amazing person that you are, but seeingyourself for who you are and being you.
(41:04):
Awesome.
That's beautiful.
And what is somethingbrave you've done recently?
I think we talked about a fewthings, but what would you pick
out as the one you'd talk about?
The most recent brave thing I did wasto present and to launch the Pelvic
Health Clubhouse and to present itto my colleagues at the OTs in Pelvic
Health Summit That felt incrediblybrave and incredibly vulnerable.
(41:29):
And I feel like I've grownso much from that already.
And you're brave too.
You sent me a message.
You said, hey, can we talk?
And you said, I would loveto be on your podcast.
And here you are.
It's true.
I'm really glad you did.
How would you like to see OTsget a little bit more brave?
Yeah, I think we need tostop asking for permission.
(41:50):
as OTs need to really know ourworth and where we can use that
in lots of different areas.
And if there's an area that interests you,that you're passionate about, you don't
need, sure, there's probably coursework.
I'm not saying you should justnot sure be proficient, right?
(42:11):
You should do what you need to do tobe able to practice in that field.
But you shouldn't be waiting aroundfor someone else to tell you that
you can that if it's in our scope,sometimes you have to create your own
door and walk through it yourself.
Absolutely.
And that's it.
There's that sense ofprofessional responsibility.
(42:32):
We're not going totally rogueand out of scope, but within
scope, there's so much we can do.
And just because somebody elseisn't already doing this thing, it's
something that we're qualified to do.
We've got the skills to door learning the skills to do.
There doesn't have to be a pavedyellow brick road that says this is
the path because somebody createdthat path somewhere along the way.
(42:54):
Why not you?
Yeah, exactly.
And where can people find you justto connect, but also how do they find
out about the Pelvic Health Clubhouse?
Yeah.
I write, I call them pelvic love notes.
So you can subscribe to my freenewsletter where I talk lots
of holistic and pelvic health.
You can find me and my, like the blog willhave past love notes and you can subscribe
(43:20):
there at trianglepelvichealth.com.
Okay.
You can find me on social mediaat Triangle Pelvic Health.
You can also find the Pelvic HealthClubhouse at pelvichealthclubhouse.com.
Great.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much for being here.
This has been a really rich conversation.
Thank you so much for having me.
(43:40):
I hope that we can inspire other OTsto step into their bravest selves.
I think we are.
I think we just did....
Thank you so much for tuning intothis episode of The BRAVE OT Podcast.
Now, before you go, I want tomake sure you stay and listen to
this last part because there'sa time sensitive announcement.
If Dana's journey of building somethingnew and stepping into the unknown
(44:04):
resonates with you, I want to remindyou that you don't have to do it alone.
Running a business, whether it'slaunching a new project, growing your
practice, or taking a BRAVE step, requiresmore than just professional skills.
It's about aligning your work withyour values, finding clarity in your
direction and building a businessthat feels sustainable and fulfilling.
(44:24):
Really, you're faced with a lot ofinternal work when you build something
and kind of level up professionally.
And that's why I createdACTivate Vitality.
It's a group coaching programspecifically designed for OT business
owners who see the need to integratetheir personal and professional growth,
break free from perfectionism and overfunctioning, and create a business
that supports the life that they want.
(44:44):
It's where you learn to embracevulnerability, step into your
values, and thrive with the supportof a like-mindedd community.
We've recently made a shift from alwaysbeing open for enrollment to accepting
new clients only during specific periods.
And guess what?
It's time right now, if you'relistening to this in October of 2024.
Enrollment is open until the end ofthe month, So if you're feeling stuck,
(45:08):
overwhelmed, struggling with boundaries,overworking, maybe perfectionism's
really getting to you or you're justready for a more sustainable way to
work and live, I invite you to book afree Clarity Call with me between now
and October 31st, this is your chanceto explore how ACTivate Vitality can
support your next BRAVE step in business,which is a next BRAVE step in your life.
(45:30):
if you've created a business, that alignswith your priorities, your values, your
goals, it needs to serve your life.
It needs to not be sitting ona scale in opposition to life.
This business is a part of your life.
It should add to your life,not take away from it.
There's a link in theshow notes to book a call.
And let's find your flow together.
(45:50):
I'm only taking 12 people this round.
And this is the lastenrollment period for 2024.
So don't wait.
This is your time.
I really look forwardto connecting with you.
Make sure you checkout Dana's information.
Check out the Pelvic HealthClubhouse, follow us on social media.
I'll put all those linksin the show notes as well.
(46:11):
as always, be brave OTs.....
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