November 17, 2024 • 53 mins
This discussion with our guest, BRAVE OT, Erin Clarelli, brings together heart and mind as we dive into conversations that challenge norms, embrace unique perspectives, and foster the growth and vitality we strive for every day in our professional and personal lives.
I am beyond excited to welcome Erin Clarelli to the pod! Erin is a force in the world of OT, deeply committed to mental health, self-compassion, and creating supportive spaces for neurodivergent individuals. She is highly involved in the non-, minimally, and unreliably speaking autistic community in her own private practice, SUNRISE Therapies. She is a passionate advocate and ally and a supportive agent of change for occupational therapists in this specific area of the autistic community.
Erin is here to share her wisdom, insights, and stories that will inspire you to rethink your approach, nourish your passion, and perhaps even spark a little bit of rebellion against the status quo.
Be sure to check out Erin's online courses and mentorship programs at OT Level Up and download the free OT Impact Blueprint.
Erin is here to share her wisdom, insights, and stories that will inspire you to rethink your approach, nourish your passion, and perhaps even spark a little bit of rebellion against the status quo.
Be sure to check out Erin's online courses and mentorship programs at OT Level Up and download the free OT Impact Blueprint.
Follow Erin on social:
Instagram - Sunrise Therapies
Facebook - Erin Clarelli
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Instagram - Sunrise Therapies
Facebook - Erin Clarelli
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The ACTivate Vitality Personal Development Planner is available on Amazon. Learn more and find links to purchase on Carlyn's Website.
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To see how the Jane.app can help you reclaim your evenings and weekends, head over and meet Jane to book a personalized demo. As a listener of The BRAVE OT Podcast, you are invited to use the code VITALITY at the time of sign-up for a 1-month grace period on your new account.
________________________________
To see how the Jane.app can help you reclaim your evenings and weekends, head over and meet Jane to book a personalized demo. As a listener of The BRAVE OT Podcast, you are invited to use the code VITALITY at the time of sign-up for a 1-month grace period on your new account.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin (00:00):
I've fallen into that trap of feeling like every stressor is so
pressing and I have to do it rightnow, and just learning that pause
of, is this pertinent, or like, whyam I feeling this, to then, help me
make the next best decision, right?
Versus impulsively feeling it and doingit, and missing out on that pause.
(00:22):
it's so huge to just pause forliterally a millisecond and
say, why am I feeling this?
And then take the next stepversus just the impulsive action.
Carlyn (00:30):
Yeah.
We want to get out of discomfort,but there's, if we can linger there
with curiosity, can learn a lot andthen make really intentional next
steps that are really values aligned.
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
(00:55):
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
(01:16):
I hope you love this episode!
Hey, BRAVE OT listeners, I'm Carlyn Neek,your guide and partner in this journey
of courageous occupational therapy.
Today, our guest Erin bringstogether heart and mind as we dive
into conversations that challengenorms, embrace unique perspectives,
and foster the growth and vitalitywe strive for every day in our
professional and personal lives.
(01:38):
I'm beyond excited to welcomeErin Clarelli to the pod.
Erin is a force in the world of OT,Deeply committed to creating supportive
spaces for neurodiverse individuals andempowering other OTs to do so as well.
she's here to share her wisdom,insights, and stories that will inspire
you to rethink your approach, nourishyour passion, and perhaps even spark
(02:01):
a little bit of rebellion againstthe status quo where appropriate.
I'm grateful that somewhere alongErin's journey toward thought leadership
in this space, she chose to joinACTivate Vitality for the community
and support she needed In order todo these brave things she has done.
before we get into today's episode, I'dlike to introduce our sponsor, Jane,
(02:24):
a clinic management software and EMR.
The team at Jane understands that clockingout from the clinic doesn't always
mean you're clocking out for the day.
Instead, it's often the start ofcharting long into the evening.
With time saving charting featureslike custom smart narratives,
chart duplication, and dictation,
Jane helps you finish chartingyour patient or client notes
(02:45):
during work hours, not after hours.
And to save you even more time, you haveaccess to Jane's chart template library.
It's fully stocked with pre madetemplates that have been generously
shared by practitioners in the community.
You can even customize them furtherwith charting tools like side by
side photos, check and range scales.
To see how Jane can help you freeup your evenings from admin tasks,
(03:07):
head to the show notes to grab thelink for your personalized demo.
If you're ready to get started, youcan use the code VITALITY at the
time of signup for a one month graceperiod applied to your new account.
it is so nice to see you again.
It's just oh, it's just, yeah, seeing yourface on the screen makes my heart smile.
Erin (03:23):
I know, it's so nice to reconnect.
It feels like the timeline collapses, fromthe last time we spoke and a different
domain that we're speaking in right now.
So I'm excited to talk about that.
Carlyn (03:33):
Oh, me too, me too.
So for those people who don't knowyou, can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and what you do?
Erin (03:42):
Yeah, definitely.
So I am an occupational therapist andI own my own business called 'Sunrise
Therapies.' My business started asa need to get out of the system of
the insurance based model and beinglimited on what we could do as OTs with
that, and now it's evolved to this.
I have a team of four, five, includingmyself and expanding more and
(04:05):
more, there's just things that comeacross my path that are exciting.
And I am a yes woman andI just say, yeah, sure.
Let's try it.
And if it works, cool.
I would say I'm all those things.
Plus I am a fur mama, a wife, you know,all those things in my personal life,
and I'm just a person that loves livingand embracing all that comes our way.
Carlyn (04:26):
I remember first seeing you in a yoga class, patio in Florida.
The sun was behind you, so that, butyou were glowing, like you were like
clearly radiating this energy thatI felt so drawn to you because you
just had this calm, kind, humorous,flexible, easygoing nature, and you
(04:47):
called out to me, and you knew me,and I was like, oh, somebody knows me.
I'm sitting there admiring youand you're like, Hey, Carlyn.
Erin (04:56):
Oh man, it's so interesting because even just you saying that
it's like, Oh my gosh, like me on theinside, I was like shaking, right?
Like I think of Inside Out.
I just went and saw the second one,but I'm like picturing that anxiety,
just like bubbling up and me usingall my tools to like, press that
down and step into my confidence.
So it feels really good tohear you say that because the
same thing back to you right?
(05:16):
It's like, oh my gosh, that's Carlyn likeyou know perspective is a real wild thing.
Carlyn (05:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really was.
And yeah, it was like, we were bothin kind of new roles at that time,
sort of stepping into leading things.
This was at the OT EntrepreneurSummit live in, I think was it
November of 2021 or October?
Somewhere in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you were doing some thingsand I was doing some things
(05:44):
and we were totally nervous.
I think I shook my papers that I onlygot halfway through for the whole time
I was speaking when I did my talk.
Erin (05:54):
Yeah, and I remember your talk still, like I remember being in the front
row just fully captivated by your story.
I remember crying at the end.
So just all of that, thatsummit feels like yesterday.
And to think that was however manyyears ago, and November of 21, I
had just started Sunrise in May.
It was like in fruitionJanuary through May, right?
(06:16):
But I really like bit the bullet, leftmy full time job and went for it in May.
So yeah, meeting the people there,hearing your talk, and just, I'm still
connected with many people from thatsummit and I'm so grateful for it
and just the community we have andthe mindset of OTs in general, right?
We have such a strong foundationof so many aspects, right?
(06:38):
Like with the tagline, living lifeto the fullest, like, how do you
even focus in on one thing for that?
So just the journey of gettingto where I'm at now and being
surrounded by such incredibleOTs, I'm definitely grateful for.
Carlyn (06:53):
I like how you talked about an OT mindset.
I find I'm often asked to talk aboutmindset and generally, It feels like a
little bit icky as a general term, right?
That people attach things to it, but Ilike talking about specific mindsets,
or specific ways of being and thinkingand that sort of thing, like growth
(07:14):
mindset or an entrepreneurial mindset oran OT mindset and what sort of mindset
do I need to bring to this situation?
It's not necessarilythe same for everything.
Yeah.
How would you describe an OT mindset?
Erin (07:29):
Yeah, really great question.
I love that you highlightthat it ebbs and flows, right?
So how I show up as an OT is verydifferent how I show up for my family
or stressful experiences in life I thinkthere are overlap in each of those but
when I am specifically in my OT mindsetI am very much the first thing that
comes to mind is supportive, right?
(07:50):
Like I am here to support.
it is seeing the possibilityin everything, right?
Like people coming to us andsaying, I have this goal.
I want to do ,this.
And it's like, all right, here, like inmy mind, I just see this list of okay,
here's what we need to do to get there.
So it's like open mindedness and believingin oneself, believing in the person
(08:11):
that we're serving then the last thingthat comes to mind is holistic, right?
And that's a buzzword and right.
It could mean Something to you differentthan it means to me, but for me, it's
really just looking at the mind, and howyou process and perceive this world and
what your beliefs are, the body, what isyour nervous system and your regulation
like, and how physically adept are you toshow up for the challenge we're working
(08:36):
towards and then spiritually, I thinkthat could mean, that absolutely means
something different to everyone, buteveryone has some connection, whether
it's really deep and high thinking,or it's hey, I know something bigger
is out there, or I got feelings, orit's hey, I don't believe in anything,
I just believe in life, So I thinkall of that is so important, and I
think that comes from our schooling.
Like I remember studying for myboards and being like, Oh my gosh,
(08:58):
how am I going to remember this?
I feel like I was like apsychologist, a nurse, like all
these like different domains.
So I think as much as that waskiller when I was studying, I am so
grateful to have that background.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious if you think of any ofthose, words came up or different
things come up for you for OT Mindset.
Carlyn (09:18):
I think so, and I really like how you talked about your unique
way of showing up, that this isn'tjust how OTs show up, this is, this
is, my flavor, my values, my stamp,my way of seeing the world and my
clients and my role and all of thatwas encompassed in that description.
So I love that.
So in my mind, I'm going to twothings like a OT mindset generally
(09:42):
and my own, but I'll come atit with my own for starters.
And I, my work is twofold, right?
So I, I know you know this,but listeners may not know.
I have, a private practice with,which is mostly adult mental health
and I have a program, called ACTivateVitality where I mentor and support OTs
(10:02):
They're, therapy business owners, but itjust happens to be that mostly OTs join.
and I feel like I show up, fairlysimilar in both of those roles.
I'm not an OT when I'm working withpeople internationally, it's a different
relationship, but still, I feellike I'm showing up with a sense of
curiosity and openness and flexibility.
(10:23):
Also, similar to the way you've describedseeing possibility, that sense of, I
can see what they can't and they're in aspot where it's hard to see possibility.
And it's great to be able tobe that, visionary for them.
And, be able to talk about what'simportant and where they want to get to.
And, building that bridgebetween here and there.
That kind of is our activity analysis and,assessing the person and the situation
(10:47):
and the occupations and all of that sortof thing, and then seeing what needs to
be built to get over here, when you'rein that hurting spot, you tend to think,
there's here or there, there's not, theycan't see the middle very often, a lot of
my, mental health clients in particular,and so I, I love that sense of, being
that person who sees possibility but alsoreally tunes in with the individual and,
(11:09):
and listens and create safety and, spacewhere they can feel comfortable to show
up as they are, with whatever is present.
So I work really hard.
Actually, I put a lot of time andeffort into establishing that safe
relationship, but it actually isn't hard.
Like it's a thing that comes naturally.
(11:29):
Like I couldn't imagine another way.
so it's a priority, I guessis probably what I'm saying.
Erin (11:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it really resonates somethingthat I didn't add about myself is
I work specifically with the nonspeaking, minimally speaking, or
unreliably speaking autistic community.
So that safety is so huge, and justeven hearing you talk about how you
assess and gather information, right?
It's a discussion.
(11:55):
Some of these, majority ofthese guys and gals don't have a
voice yet to share that, right?
it's a lot of like intuitive thinkingand experiences, leaning into
parents, and the whole family, hasbeen through a lot of experiences.
A lot of the families thatcome to me right now are teens,
(12:15):
like teens to young adults.
So they've been through a system thatdidn't believe in them, didn't do all
these things about that OT mindset, right?
Like they didn't look at themholistically, they didn't believe
in them, they didn't assess theirmental health and how we can
support them in all those areas.
So, it's just for me, that safetyand that neuroception of safety
and building that is so huge.
(12:36):
I think about that so heavily in mywork, but then if I just go out and
hang out with family or friends,I'm not thinking about it as much.
So it's interesting to hear you say,working collaboratively with other
OTs, I'm just authentically myself.
I'm not like, Clinically thinking abouthow can I build this safety, right?
I'm hoping I'm presenting that and I hopeit's like a neat thing in me, but when
(12:57):
I am serving my families and my clients,I am very intentional with like my body
placement, my words, because their lifehas been surrounded in the opposite,
under a perception of unsafety and threat.
Carlyn (13:10):
How did you go about learning that?
Because I imagine some of that isinnately how you show up, knowing you,
having spent a lot of time with you.
But I find it helpful to learn whatit is that I do naturally that works,
and then, you know right, like thateducation is affirming and then also
knowing that there's things that Ido that, ooh, that could be received
(13:30):
in not the way that's intentional.
So sometimes I can cross myarms and I'm like, oh, yeah, no,
that's not the body language.
I wanna, I want to have anopen posture here, right?
Yes.
Erin (13:39):
Yeah.
I know.
I feel like my favorite like CEUcourses are the ones where I'm like,
Oh, yeah, I've been doing that.
That makes sense, right?
it's I've been doing it, butnow I have this, evidence
based information behind it.
Yeah.
But I do think I learned it with mywork, honestly, for what felt safe
for me, and, going through my ownhealing journey and learning what
(14:00):
felt regulating for my body, and thenexploring that within my sessions.
And then honestly, doing things andseeing the reaction from the individual
because it's different for everyone.
Yes, there's like uniform ones of crossingour arms or just general body language,
but even learning, and this goes back to alot of the work that I'm being led to for
(14:22):
OTs specifically, learning how to reallytruly regulate myself so that I could be
a strong co regulation partner for theseindividuals that their bodies are there
are arousal spikes and it could feel scaryfor our nervous system even though in
our minds we know it's not intentional orthey're not truly like wanting to do the
things they're doing it still feels scaryto our nervous system so, I think just
(14:48):
doing the work over and over, trial anderror, exploring, working collaboratively.
The individuals I serve are the bestteachers, I get the best feedback from
how their body responds, or those thatdo have a voice through, alternative
communication have shared specific waysto be supportive for this community.
Carlyn (15:05):
And it's interesting when you think about, the autistic population as
well, where sometimes if you're workingwith, somebody who wasn't autistic,
you might be seeking to be more directin the connection where that could
feel really dysregulating dependingon the person you're working with.
So creating safety by creating abit of distance can also, depending
(15:26):
on the situation, I imagine.
I'm not the expert inthat, tell me about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erin (15:32):
So I think, again, I feel like we cannot say it enough, right?
That each individual person isindividual for a reason, but I will
say that Sometimes it is just timeand space, but in conjunction with
that, it is like affirming and ageappropriate language in those moments.
In OT school, and in my fieldworkand my first jobs, I was taught to
(15:54):
just turn everything off when someonegets dysregulated, reduce all sensory
stimuli, which, yeah, makes sense tosome extent for the nervous system.
But how alone does that feel?
If everyone just shuts off when yourbody's losing it and is in fight or flight
and it's just, they're sitting around.
And so many individuals will sit likewith arms crossed or hands like down at
their waist, in this like wide stance,almost like a security guard, right?
(16:19):
that, for me, previously, in theschool systems and in outpatient
clinic settings, that's what we weretaught to do, 'shut up and just wait'.
I will say that space and time has beengreat, but I don't stand like that,
and I don't stay completely quiet.
I'll write on a whiteboardand say, I am safe here.
I can trust my body, this will pass, orI'll like, model deep breaths, or I'll say
(16:41):
those things in a gentle voice, and I'llsit down on the ground with them, right?
So it is individualized based on thearousal level and the safety needs of
the individual and myself, and whoeverelse is there, but I don't think always
space or distance is good, becausethat feels isolating, like you're too
scared to come near me, and now, oh mygosh, I did this, and then that spiral,
(17:02):
that we have spoken about in our work.
I have this here because I waslooking back at all my notes
from when I took your course.
I was like, oh my gosh, it's sofull circle and I'm just, you
know, all the work is so important.
Yeah.
Carlyn (17:17):
Oh, I love that.
For the people who are listening anddon't see what Erin just held up,
it was her ACTivate Vitality plannerfrom when she joined the ACTivate
Vitality program at the end of 2021.
And yeah, it was fun to be ableto work with you for that next
season, and, yeah, really neat.
So one of the things that's transitionedrecently is you're doing more, educating
(17:40):
and mentoring other therapists andwe can talk a little bit more about
that, but here, the little link I'mthinking is a lot of what you're
doing, you've learned skillfully,but you're also doing intuitively.
How are you teachingthat to new clinicians?
Erin (17:58):
Yeah, so right now my focus of my work is specifically for clinicians,
specifically OT, we'll see if thatexpands, about this population, and
how I am so grateful for my OT degree.
And in the same breath, I am frustratedwith the schooling around this specific
topic, and I want to change that, andthat's where this fire came from for me,
(18:21):
I will say that my focus is definitelyon mindset because we need to change
our beliefs and what we've been toldand what society has been told as a
whole about this community, right?
And it is really hard to changethat belief when we are seeing these
individuals bodies act out in a waythat is, you know, from a nervous
system response, fight or flight, right?
(18:42):
Freeze, shut down, all of that.
The beginning and the end of my courseworkand my mentorship is on mindset.
So it is a lot of journaling andreflecting of just, Hey, where are you at
right now?' I run through some questions,same questions that I asked myself when
I entered this community and I saw thatthese individuals had so much in them.
And understanding the mind, body,disconnect, and apraxia, and all the
(19:05):
things we know through TBI and stroke,but we don't connect to this community.
And then I go through all the courseworkexplaining all that and connecting
the dots that OT schools should beconnecting and will be in the future.
And then at the end, I go through, okay,here are the same or similar questions,
'how are you feeling now that we'veconnected some of these dots, right?'
(19:26):
'Where is your mindset at?
How are you going to continue tocarry this out?' Because I'm guilty
of it too, of going through a CEUcourse, learning it, being jazzed on
all the information, and then goingright back to old patterns, right?
So a lot of self reflection, questions,learning in between to see the growth
and then follow up mentorship foraccountability and just strategies like
(19:50):
I've learned in your course too and justlearned through my own self development
and all the courses I've taken and thetherapy I've done right and continue to
do in terms of tiny, consistent stepsday by day, so that's how right now, and
it evolves, every new self help book I'mlearning for myself, I am integrating
into my mentorship for someone elsebecause it might resonate, and maybe they
(20:11):
don't have time to read that whole book,so here's my bite sized chunk of what
I learned in this book, let's try it.
Carlyn (20:17):
I like how you've structured that because I find, a lot of OTs
I talk to really crave signing upfor more and more CEUs and more and
more courses and do you send out therecordings and that sort of thing.
And the real magic actually happens inthe conversations and the reflections
and the troubleshooting and the,'Hey, this thing happened' and 'I
(20:38):
tried this' and that's where lotsof really good learning happens.
Certainly, modules and textbooksand learning are valuable.
Like we've, we take in a lot ofinformation, but when it comes
to transformation, I find inthose more relational kind of
engagements, community or individual.
Yeah.
(20:58):
And you've structured it for that Iknow there's lots of content to even
say on there, like information dense,I think was listed on your thing.
OTs want to see that for sure.
And, but we have to do all this otherstuff or else it's going nowhere.
Erin (21:12):
Yeah.
And I remember actually going throughyour coursework it's so funny.
One specific thought is standing in myhead, I remember like folding laundry
in the laundry room and like listeningto your coursework and being like, Oh
my gosh, I got to pause that and rewind.
it was like, I was so investedin it because it had all
those aspects too, right?
(21:32):
Like you have the community and thetime to meet and discuss with you.
So I was, way more investedin the coursework because I
knew, not that I had to, right?
But I was committing to coming to thosesessions and then discussing okay, you
know, what, what's going on for you now?
And how does this tie intoeverything we've been talking about?
(21:53):
So that made me invest in it more thanjust, let me just listen to this on two
times the speed while I'm driving, youknow, there's just different levels and
again, full circle, depending on whenyou're listening to a course, you may
choose to do two times the speed becauseyou feel so stressed and you're just
trying to check things off your list,but what good is that doing, right?
Like, sure, you may grab two or threelittle key points, but are you going
(22:17):
to implement and see the real changeand then be able to connect on a deep
level with the others in the communitythat are also doing similar work?
Yeah, it's definitely key.
Carlyn (22:26):
And social learning, I feel like it's just such
almost a learning hack, right?
But it's, I don't use the term hack a lot,but that sense of being in community with
each other, we just naturally want to,grow and learn in similar ways, right?
So if you're in community with otherpeople who are learning the same
thing, or somebody's talking outTheir thing that they're working
(22:48):
on, that we're learning that, right?
Like it's just this wayof absorbing it socially.
That's so powerful.
Erin (22:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And hearing other people'sperspectives, right?
Like you may go through coursework andsomeone shares like, Oh, I perceived it
this way, or I'm implementing it this way.
And you didn't even think of that.
And you're like, Oh, I need to try thatversus again, just listening to a webinar
that was recorded and, calling it a day.
yeah.
And maybe that's.
I think that's a clear skill that wehave of that full picture, the full
(23:21):
understanding and the true passion andwanting for the people we are serving.
Like seeing their potential and.
wanting them to take it furtherthan just listening and getting
their four credits for licensure.
Carlyn (23:32):
Yes.
I liked that when I was lookingthrough your pages you address
that sort of thing, right?
and similarly, I'm not listed with anysort of, I serve people internationally.
I can't possibly register what I do withAll of the different regulatory bodies
that people might join from, and I'malso a little bit resistant to the whole
(23:53):
idea, that we need to structure ourlearning for our learning needs for our
professional and personal growth, andtake responsibility and accountability for
that learning and, and I'm a bit miffedby regulatory systems that require you to
only do this many CEUs from a list becauseI don't think that meets the intention
(24:17):
of continuing education in any way.
But, I also recognize that theseare systems that we're working in.
It's similar to both of us leavinghealthcare system too, right?
it's I get it.
There's this system.
I get how I relate to that.
It's a little bit differentbecause these are my values.
This is how I approach educationand mentorship, support, and.
And come if this fits for you.
Erin (24:39):
yeah, exactly.
I don't think of myself aslike a rebellious person.
I mean, maybe as a teenager, right?
Like reflecting back, butI feel like it's funny.
We were just, we had gone to Disneyand I was pointing out all my
favorite characters and my husband waslike, you always like the underdog.
Like you like the little sidekick.
I love like, Hey, Hey, or Groot, I likeall the little not main characters.
(25:02):
And I was like, I think heactually pointed it out.
He was like, and that's kindof telling for the work you do.
Like you're always trying to helpthat person that's in the back scene.
Right.
And you're there to advocateand do the fight with them.
So I think like both in my work with theautistic population and just work with
OTs, it's I don't want to be that person.
That's ah, screw the system, you know?
(25:24):
No, but it's like, Not but, Ialways say one of my good colleagues
has taught me but end, right?
It could be both.
You don't have to negatethat thing before.
it could be that like you, I'm sopassionate about OTs and the work we do
that I see us being the bestpeople to be serving the community
that I serve in this way, right?
(25:46):
Because we have all this background andI feel like it's a disservice that we
aren't being taught it earlier on, right?
So it's same thing with theaccreditation or, the healthcare system
that they're not approving OT to bedone with these individuals I serve
because they're aged out or, they'renot going to make progress, right?
So it's We are advocating for a betterfuture as a whole for OT and the
(26:07):
communities we serve, even if it feelsuncomfortable or a little bit scary.
it's important, and I think if there'sone thing I've learned through my
entrepreneur journey is like, when Ifeel scary, or I get that feeling in my
stomach, like I did before this podcast,those are the things you should be doing,
Yes, balancing them with the thingsthat feel like, oh, relax and,
neuroception safety, but buildingthat resiliency, okay, in yourself, in
(26:30):
those that you serve, in a comfortableway and noticing in your body when
you feel that and noticing what thatmeans and what to do next is so huge.
And if that means that you're going to bepushing against something that you once
were like, Oh, I need to follow this.
I remember being a new grad andbeing like, Oh, I have to like,
(26:51):
Follow exactly everything to a T,but if you're passionate about it,
you're passionate for a reason.
So, messages to follow it and trust.
Carlyn (26:59):
Yeah, but when that fear comes up, tuning into the difference between a fear
that is truly like, we shouldn't do that.
Yeah, for sure.
and that's, and it's tricky becauseour nervous system is being protective
when, We're feeling fearful aboutexpanding into something new, but
being able to discern that differencebetween moving in an intentional way
(27:20):
and experiencing the fear of change,versus, you know, the other way.
And so being able to embrace that,yes, when I grow, when I expand
into something new and I careabout it deeply, I do get nervous.
I do experience fear.
I do experience self doubt andthat's actually to be expected
and part of the journey anytimeI expand into something new.
(27:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erin (27:43):
I always use the term, nerve-cited, or like reframing fear like excitement
or momentum to do the next thing.
So that's been something I've beenworking on with my therapist in the
past, probably three months of runninga business isn't easy, you know this,
And the pressure we put on ourselves ascaring and giving individuals I've fallen
into that trap of feeling like everystressor is so pressing and I have to
(28:09):
do it right now, and just learning thatpause of, is this pertinent, or like,
why am I feeling this, to then, Helpme make the next best decision, right?
Versus impulsively feeling it and doingit, and missing out on that pause.
it's so huge to just pause forliterally a millisecond and
say, why am I feeling this?
And then take the next stepversus just the impulsive action.
Carlyn (28:33):
Yeah.
We want to get out of discomfort,but there's, if we can linger there
with curiosity, can learn a lot andthen make really intentional next
steps that are really values aligned.
Yeah, 100%.
I have a question that just came fromwho knows where for you about, the
word or the phrase self care becauseI have my perspective on it and just
(28:57):
like the self care movement so I'mcurious, what does that mean to you?
So I feel like it's one of those wordsthat have been a little bit, like
things have been attached to it, right?
And so the true essence of caringfor oneself is so much deeper
than we automatically think ofwhen somebody says self care.
(29:20):
super easy for someone to go,oh, I need to do more self care.
Okay, maybe I'll book a massage and a nailappointment and have some bubble baths.
Cool, if that's what you need.
Is that deeply caring for yourperson as a whole entity, right?
And what does your soul need, right?
what does your body need?
What does your spirit need?
(29:41):
Like that, I feel like it's so muchdeeper and if not grounded in self
compassion, might be a bit superficial.
and so I've, I've done a couple talksaround shifting that kind of superficial
self care toward deeper, really focusingon self compassion and out of self
(30:01):
compassion grows acts of self care.
Because I think it's important.
Self care is generally the actof caring, like it's what are the
actions, the occupations that are,aligned with caring for oneself.
But if it's not grounded in havingcompassion for yourself, that's maybe
where the real work needs to happen.
Erin (30:20):
Yeah, I love that you separated to the surface level.
self care because I do think likewhen I say self care, even in my mind,
like the first thing that pops up is abubble bath, like visually in my mind.
So I totally agree thatthere's two different types.
There's this deeper awareness, andfinding space and connecting with
(30:40):
what self care actually feels like andis bringing to you as a whole being.
and I recognize how much work it takes to.
Get to that deeper level self care, right?
I think, I know from my ownexperience that self care can
be self deprecating, right?
(31:00):
you could be like, I'm just gonna drinka glass of wine and sit in a bathtub
and everything will be fine, right?
Because I don't truly wantto see what's inside, right?
Or, They could go so deep where it'sI'm just gonna sit and meditate and do
nothing all day for two weeks, right?
So it's I think there's thiscontinuum of it that it could be
(31:22):
like, way superficial, or it couldbe like, you're limiting yourself
by saying, Oh, I'm doing self care.
I'm really like, I love woowoo, don't get me wrong.
But I think woo woo can take us to apoint where we're just avoiding, right?
So it's like everything, right?
There's like a sweet spot for everyone.
And that might look different for me.
(31:42):
It's that I would be like, I'mgoing to meditate and do yoga and
everything's going to be great.
And I don't need to have a to do list.
I don't need a schedule.
And then my world falls apart.
I'm just going to go with the flow.
Like for me as an entrepreneur, runningmultiple things out of my business, right?
That just didn't work for me.
But the other end didn't work whereI worked really, really hard and
then for a weekend I would do nowork and drink wine and sit in a
(32:06):
bathtub or get my nails done, right?
I've found the ebb andflow of doing both, right?
Cause there's some days likeyesterday where I was just
like, grind, grind, grind.
Whereas today I'm like,I'm chatting with you.
This doesn't feel like work, So I thinkholding ourselves accountable is a big
piece in it as well and not lettingit this, like having compassion for
(32:26):
ourself, be another excuse to avoid.
I think there's also, yougotta call yourself out, right?
hey, you're just, you're bullshitright now, and you need to
just go do the thing, right?
Carlyn (32:36):
Yeah.
And different acts can, representdifferent needs at different times, right?
I could be like, hey,I am exhausted today.
I'm gonna have popcorn for supper.
And, maybe, a sparkling water.
And, that's not going to bemy everyday, but that's today.
And that could be a good thing today, ifthat became my habit for the rest of the
(32:59):
month, I'm, I'm not nourishing myself.
I'm not caring for myself.
And yes, it's a sort of seeing, arewe in, supporting our needs and tuning
into what we need in any given moment.
Like a bubble bath truly could bean act of kindness and self care
if that's where you're needing.
You're needing to pause.
You're needing to break the routine.
(33:19):
You're like, I sometimes meditatein the bath, like for three minutes
or something like that, right?
And I, have some essential oilsthat I love and it's just like this
representation of slowing down inmy routine and caring for myself.
but that could be a whole differentvibe if it's just yep, self care check.
I had a bath and, whatever.
I listened to my modules for thecourse I'm doing at the same time.
(33:42):
Yep.
Erin (33:43):
Yeah.
So true.
Yeah.
Spot on.
Even just last week, I had a superstressful week and my body was hurting.
I took a lot of Epsom salt baths,but they were not self care baths.
They were like survival.
let me get in here.
So my body feels good.
Let me sit on my phone and scroll.
it wasn't like, let meconnect with myself.
And you know what, that'swhat I needed in that moment.
I needed to like mentally check out andlet my body do its thing and healing.
(34:06):
And it's a new day, a new week.
So yeah.
Thanks for sharing that.
Carlyn (34:10):
A girlfriend of mine taught me that a popcorn bowl will
actually float in the bathtub.
That's a game changer!
Who knew?
Erin (34:17):
Wow.
All right, I'll test it.
I'll let you know how mine comes.
That's great.
Carlyn (34:23):
So I would love to hear more about what you've been really
passionate about building in this space.
These last several, over the lastyear, but you really, launched
into it the last quarter.
Erin (34:34):
yeah, like I said, I started my, clinical work.
we are a mobile OT practice in SouthernCalifornia where we provide, it's
evolved yeah, I guess it evolved,because at first, you're just,
grabbing whoever you can see, right?
Now it's very specifically forthis non speaking community.
And I just, attracted so many amazingtherapists, and I had no idea it would
(34:56):
ever be this way, where I am reachingfamilies all across America, across the
globe, where it's I just, I can't doit all as myself, whereas that was my
game plan, I was like, I'm just gonnago do this thing for myself, and and the
community, from there, I just realized, Icannot do this even just within Sunrise.
Even if I grew to like a great bigcorporate business, which I will
(35:17):
never do, I will grow and continueto serve, but I will never sell out.
I'm like, let me see where I could,teach OTs that are ready in this
world and feeling similarly tohow I felt right before I left
my full time, comfortable job.
And instead of So many OTs that I mentorjust locally that I've had as like
fieldwork students or volunteers, theygraduate and then they start their first
(35:40):
job and then they hop to the next andthey hop to the next because they're
just having the same challenges becausethe autistic community is growing,
We don't really know why or what,but there are so many more autistic
individuals that need to be servedand OT is a huge part of that.
service provider for that,understandably so, right?
I think so many people, even myself, Iwent into this career, I was like, I love
(36:02):
kids, I love working with this population,but I was so stifled by what I was
taught in OT school of how to address it,honestly, in conjunction with insurance
and all the stuff we spoke about.
So that has led me to want to advocateto change the schooling and like
the coursework that we're having.
(36:23):
Not completely obliterate it, right?
There's some really good informationin there, but add to it, Enrich it
with the new knowledge we have fromthe individuals we are serving,
Like they are the best teachers.
So I can't go right in and becomea professor and change every
curriculum, So I wanted to startwith OTs that are already doing
this work and feeling the same way.
(36:43):
And remind them that, hey, you don'tneed to give up on this career.
I can't tell you how many onFacebook groups, I'm sure you
see it too, of hey, I'm thinkingabout leaving the OT profession.
And it's oh, that breaks myheart, For multiple reasons.
But I do know a lot of OTs that arelike, I just can't reach my clients, or
I have no idea how to get them regulated,my sensory diets aren't working, They
(37:03):
want me to work on fine motor in school.
So I was like, this is just mindblowing that this is still happening.
and So I started the coursework of,hey, if you're feeling this way, if
deep down in your gut, intuitively,that there is something more for the
individuals that you're serving thatyou love and care about, but you're
just feeling out of alignment becauseyou weren't set up with the tools, and
(37:24):
you're working in this space that isn'tpresuming competence, and we just gotta
crank them out for insurance, we don'tcare what you do in your sessions.
Here's someone that wentthrough that, right?
I'm here to hear you out, seewhere you're at, give you what I've
learned to get me to this point offeeling so fulfilled in my work.
I still will see eight clientsin a day and feel my body is
exhausted, but my heart is so full.
(37:46):
And that is very different than yourbody being exhausted and your heart
being Conflicted morally, right?
because I have to do it this way becausethe red tape in the school district, or
I have to do it this way because I hadno time to prep for my clients, you know?
So, yeah, my main focus right nowis just getting the information
out there to OTs because we aresuch Makers of change, right?
(38:06):
And once we find things, I feel likewe all get really passionate and we are
helping, and I think it could have a hugeripple effect across the globe that I
can't have with just me and my team here.
That's a long answer.
Carlyn (38:19):
That is a good answer though.
You are truly doing your soul's work.
working with the individuals I know ispowerful and you'll never not do that,
I'm sure, but you can help so many morepeople if you can empower these therapists
who need to know how to do what you do.
Erin (38:37):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think just a word that poppedinto my mind is ego too, right?
I could sit here and be like, I'mgoing to do this all on my own
because I can't trust people becauseI've been broken in the past, right?
But there's again, full circle,what we're talking about, there's
so much power in community andconnection and understanding and the
families are they're dying for this.
(38:59):
If they don't know that this and theseprofessionals that are out there yet.
They are like in at home alonethinking, I wish someone would
just see my son as I see him.
Or I would truly presume competence.
Or be truly neurodiversity affirming.
Again, all buzzwords.
But what does that mean?
And how do we really speak to theseindividuals and their families in a
(39:22):
way that no one else ever has becausethe system hasn't taught us to do that?
It's taught us all these other beliefsthat we need to get rid of and reprogram.
Carlyn (39:32):
So what are the main things that you are trying to shift people away from?
Things that we learned and whatare some of the biggies that
are, that we need to reprogram?
Erin (39:43):
Yes, I'm glad you asked.
My first thing I would saythat we were taught that
autism is a cognitive disorder.
there are, we know autism is aspectrum, specifically in this
community where they used to belabeled as low functioning, right?
But now we say high support needs, right?
That they are not intelligent, that theyhave cognitive delays or intellectual
(40:09):
disabilities, that they don't understandwhat we're saying, whereas I would
reprogram all that to they have a bodythat is not cooperating with their mind,
and As a yoga teacher and doing yogafor myself, mind body connection is so
big, For this community, it is so muchdeeper of how do we truly get their
bodies to cooperate with their minds.
(40:32):
and then the other aspectis that it is behavioral.
How many families or how many IPs witha BIP, a Behavior Intervention Plan.
I don't even use that word, right?
it is a trigger word for me.
Yes, we all have behaviors, right?
Like, how we behave.
But for me, it's just motor actionsthat their body is doing because their
(40:52):
nervous system is either triggeredor that it is a stuck pattern,
Just like we see, spoken loops of.
Saying the same movie script over andover, the body does the same thing,
Changing that the intellect isn't therebecause it is there, and they are truly
wanting to learn and they don't wantto be drilled, say ball, say ball,
(41:13):
because Apraxia doesn't discriminate.
It's in the mouth.
It's in the whole body.
And that they are not being behavioral.
They are not intentionally tryingto harm you or harm themselves or
ignore what you're asking them to do.
It is that their body won'tlisten to their brain.
that's a cliff note.
Yeah.
And then we layer in sensoryand trauma and, you know,
(41:36):
how does that all correlate?
And, just, The simplest shift ofspeaking to a 32 year old autistic
male, like a 32 year old male, is huge.
And how much could that balance outregulation and help their nervous
system feel safe instead of truncatingour language or talking about
him in front of him, all of that.
Carlyn (41:58):
Yeah.
And I imagine in the less verbal Autisticpeople you work with, that's even
more that people are often not gettingtheir cues for how to interact with
this person from the person verbally,and therefore assuming, making all
sorts of assumptions and assumptions.
Erin (42:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And I even highlightthat, the verbal word.
I'm such a stickler forwords in this community.
Yeah.
Ask my, side note, my, really greatfriend, she helps me out with some social
media, social right things, and I, changeit all the time, and she's I'm sorry.
I'm like, I know I'm apain in the butt, but, um.
It's important.
The words are important.
Yes.
(42:38):
Yeah, so I would say thiscommunity is very verbal, Because
verbal is language, right?
They understand language.
They have language in their mind.
They just aren't speaking.
They understand verbal language, right?
They are verbal in their mind.
They just cannot get their mouthto say what their brain is saying.
Carlyn (42:55):
That's a huge distinction.
Thank you for correcting me.
Yeah, totally.
Erin (42:58):
Of course, we're always learning, right?
Absolutely.
And I will highlight that itdiffers for everyone, right?
You just gotta ask, do you preferto me to refer to it as autistic
or a person with autism, right?
it's individualized, but I think,again, just, you know, Opening that
space to ask that question is huge.
Those are really important shifts.
So for people, OTs who want toconnect with what you have to
(43:22):
offer, how should they find you?
How would they find that information?
Yeah, definitely.
my OT focused area is otlevelup.
com and that has all my offeringsand just like a little more into
me and my style and my kind of,I call it my no BS approach.
I just say it as it is, I keep it real.
(43:42):
I'm an open book.
And then on Instagram is mainlywhere I'm the most active.
So Erin.Clarelli, or just ErinClarelli, I don't even know.
Carlyn (43:52):
I'll link it in the show notes accurately.
Yes,
Erin (43:54):
Thank you.
And then my clinical workis Sunrise Therapies.
So if you want to learn there, I posta lot of like clinical based learning
there, whereas my other Erin Clarelliis like lifestyle, mindset work.
All of that stuff, but yeah, I would loveto connect, even just to jump on a call.
Like I am so passionate about making thisripple effect and there's no ego involved.
(44:18):
If I could sit and talk with youfor five minutes, ten minutes and
make a change, I'm here to do it.
So let's make it happen.
Carlyn (44:26):
Oh, I love the integrity in that.
Yeah, we often, get coaching when we'redoing something more entrepreneurial
about, different ways of, don't coachon a call, like a clarity call, you
need to leave them feeling the pain,basically, so that they'll buy.
And it's oh my gosh, if I can,if the person's situation can
(44:47):
be caught, solved in a quickconversation, I'm happy to do that.
I, yeah.
They are not the ideal client forthe bigger thing I have to offer.
let's make a difference.
Erin (44:56):
Yeah, like why withhold anything?
Yeah, it feels so icky.
And I think again, that's why thecommunity that we've connected
with and built with like mindedentrepreneurs that are like, I'm
not gonna use that sales technique.
Nope.
I'm just gonna be myself.
I'm gonna give what I can and help supportpeople where, Everyone is at a different
stage, both financially and time wise,not everyone can commit to an eight hour
(45:20):
course that really requires some innerwork, So let's just give some tips to
make change right now, and maybe in thefuture, but maybe they don't need it.
Maybe the path leads them to a placewhere they discover it themselves,
Carlyn (45:32):
I love that.
I have a few questions thatI ask everybody at the end.
Are you ready for those?
what does being brave mean to you?
Erin (45:44):
I think I touched on this, but doing the thing when it's scary and maybe
goes against what the majority believes.
but if you truly believe it in your heartand your soul, just trust and go for it.
Especially, hopefully, if it's for good,
especially for good.
Carlyn (46:03):
Yeah.
And what's something braveyou've done recently?
Erin (46:06):
I got on this podcast.
Yes, you did.
it did feel brave.
but let me think if there's anything else.
I did last week.
I do a lot of work with otherorganizations, hopping in and out.
and sometimes that can feel scary tostep into A space where a team is already
established, like you're connected withthem, but you're not there in the daily.
So last week I had went in and didlike an intensive therapy week with
(46:30):
that group that is always so welcomingand, supportive, but it feels really
scary, to just plop into this worldthat's been going on without you.
And it's in a world that I highly respectand value, so I put a lot of pressure
on myself, but I showed up each day thatweek, and I gave my best, and I felt like
I made an impact, so I'd say that, too.
Carlyn (46:52):
That sounds really meaningful.
It definitely was.
And what would you like to see OTsget a little bit more brave about?
Erin (47:03):
Challenging the norm, Stepping out of our box that we put ourselves in or
that the system puts us in, And especiallyfor pediatrics and school based.
advocate for that kid thathas sensory needs, but may
not fully qualify for an IEP,
Share what's on yourheart in IEP meetings.
Don't be afraid to speak up becauseyou're on the other side of the table,
quotation marks, In the insurancespace, advocate for more clinical time.
(47:27):
To prep and provide qualitycare, Don't just take it and
feel like that's all you can do.
so yeah, just step outside of thebox and challenge what the system
thinks of us as OTs, especially inthe population I've been discussing.
Carlyn (47:42):
And I usually ask at this stage, how people can connect with you.
So you've already said yourInstagram, Erin Clarelli.
I'll put the link exactly as it, so peoplecan click on that in the show notes.
And, your website, youmentioned also otlevelup.
com, and if people want to connectwith Sunrise, and you're open to
people booking a chat with you andyou just see where it goes from there.
(48:05):
yeah, definitely.
the Sunrise is actuallySunriseTherapiesINC.
com.
Perfect.
Thank you.
The other one was taken.
So yeah, both those sites willconnect you to a way to, book a call
with me or just email me, whateverit is, DM me, all the cool ways to
connect that the kids are saying.
I have a question about that,Doesn't fall in with my last few
(48:30):
questions, but I'm on a lot ofFacebook groups with neurodiverse OTs.
And, seeing a lot of struggles withworking, being in placements where
their needs aren't, being accommodatedor understood and they're not
sure how to advocate and, whetherthat's students or new clinicians.
(48:50):
is that a group thatyou're connecting with?
Erin (48:53):
not specifically OTs.
We do have a handfulof, like late diagnosed.
Autism or ADHD in my clinical work,but we're doing similar things in
terms of, lifestyle redesign, one ofmy therapists is trained in that, is
really amazing, so yeah, I think itcould overlap right now, no, the path
hasn't led me directly there, but, yeah.
(49:14):
Maybe it will, who knows?
Carlyn (49:16):
it seems to be a big gap there.
Like I'm seeing it as a gap.
I'm, I have ADHD and I've been ableto make my business work for me.
and I'm seeing where these cliniciansat these stages in placement and early
career, and it doesn't have to be like,it can be a struggle at any point, but
experiencing employers that don't get it.
And then the irony being that,as OTs, We should be the most
(49:39):
accommodating for differences, andthat's seeming to be not the case
for these autistic OTs in particular.
Erin (49:47):
yeah, that's a really interesting experience.
And I do speak a lot, again,pushing the norms of, I think, as
employers, There's definitely, youneed to hear your employees, right?
And their needs and you need to helpthem feel seen, heard and supported.
And I think of ADHD and how it'sso overdiagnosed in the, in youth.
(50:09):
yes, our society, I could go on a wholenother tangent with ADHD in youth, but, I
think we need to be really careful abouthow we're supporting the neurodiversity
community and late diagnoses and reallySupporting the narrative of, we all have
challenges, and, there's different levelsof support, so in the community that I
(50:32):
support, there has been frustration of,being undervalued with their diagnoses
because there's such an influx of, so manymore lower, quote unquote, support needs.
being diagnosed or self diagnosed, right?
So I want to encourage anyone listeningthat if you are concerned or you are
feeling that any of these neurodiversitydiagnoses are part of your being, right?
(50:57):
Go to a skilled clinician, right?
Really find out more about yourselfAnd I want to highlight that while,
also honoring that, yeah, there area lot of late diagnoses and people
that have gone through Really roughexperiences because they didn't
know this is what was happening.
And that comes back to that employer lensof We have 90 percent of our work, our
workforce that is saying, I need theseaccommodations, how do we operate, right?
(51:20):
And how do we accommodate everyone?
so I just, I wanted to highlightthat of protecting those that do
really need the support and reallyworking clinically with someone that
could help you find the supports.
That are most effective anddon't really, drill down the
employer, don't take advantageof the system, is all I'm saying.
Carlyn (51:39):
Yeah, no that's fair.
And it's hard to get a diagnosis too, It'shard to get those appointments and or be
referred on if your primary provider isn'tbuying it, or Yeah, isn't validating.
Yeah.
So many obstacles and, yeah,figuring out how to do our best.
But I think it comes down towhat are our individual needs.
(51:59):
Like no diagnosis comes with alist of accommodations, right?
And, what do you need?
How do you ask for that?
how do you ask for what youneed within a situation?
Or how can you stretch and build yourcapacity in an area where that's possible.
And then sometimes not everyjob is a good fit for us too.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So very true.
thank you so much for being here.
(52:21):
I am really excited to see youat this stage in your journey.
It was so wonderful to work withyou a couple of years ago, and
I'm glad you reached out now asyou're blossoming into new things.
Erin (52:32):
Ah, thank you for all the continued work you do and creating
this that keeps my life organized.
I'm holding up the planner again!
But yeah, this has been really great.
Thank you so much.
You're most welcome.
Carlyn (52:43):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of the BRAVE OT Podcast.
I hope you found our conversation asinspiring and thought provoking as I did.
Remember, growth comes from challengingthe norm and embracing our unique
paths with integrity and compassion.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I invite you to please subscribe,
rate, and leave a review.
(53:03):
Your feedback helps us continueto bring you insightful
discussions and inspiring guests.
And don't forget to connectwith Erin on Instagram and check
out her offerings at otlevelup.
com.
If you would like to be surroundedby a community of OTs who can
help you do big, brave things likeErin has, please reach out to me.
(53:24):
I accept new people into ACTivateVitality approximately quarterly.
So sometime in the new year, Iwill be opening the doors again.
So I would love to chat with you.
if this is something youthink will help you in 2025.
Stay curious, be kind, and rememberyou are making a difference.
I'm Carlyn Neek and thisis The BRAVE OT Podcast.
As always, be brave, OTs.
I've fallen into that trap of feeling like every stressor is so
pressing and I have to do it rightnow, and just learning that pause
of, is this pertinent, or like, whyam I feeling this, to then, help me
make the next best decision, right?
Versus impulsively feeling it and doingit, and missing out on that pause.
(00:22):
it's so huge to just pause forliterally a millisecond and
say, why am I feeling this?
And then take the next stepversus just the impulsive action.
Carlyn (00:30):
Yeah.
We want to get out of discomfort,but there's, if we can linger there
with curiosity, can learn a lot andthen make really intentional next
steps that are really values aligned.
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
(00:55):
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
(01:16):
I hope you love this episode!
Hey, BRAVE OT listeners, I'm Carlyn Neek,your guide and partner in this journey
of courageous occupational therapy.
Today, our guest Erin bringstogether heart and mind as we dive
into conversations that challengenorms, embrace unique perspectives,
and foster the growth and vitalitywe strive for every day in our
professional and personal lives.
(01:38):
I'm beyond excited to welcomeErin Clarelli to the pod.
Erin is a force in the world of OT,Deeply committed to creating supportive
spaces for neurodiverse individuals andempowering other OTs to do so as well.
she's here to share her wisdom,insights, and stories that will inspire
you to rethink your approach, nourishyour passion, and perhaps even spark
(02:01):
a little bit of rebellion againstthe status quo where appropriate.
I'm grateful that somewhere alongErin's journey toward thought leadership
in this space, she chose to joinACTivate Vitality for the community
and support she needed In order todo these brave things she has done.
before we get into today's episode, I'dlike to introduce our sponsor, Jane,
(02:24):
a clinic management software and EMR.
The team at Jane understands that clockingout from the clinic doesn't always
mean you're clocking out for the day.
Instead, it's often the start ofcharting long into the evening.
With time saving charting featureslike custom smart narratives,
chart duplication, and dictation,
Jane helps you finish chartingyour patient or client notes
(02:45):
during work hours, not after hours.
And to save you even more time, you haveaccess to Jane's chart template library.
It's fully stocked with pre madetemplates that have been generously
shared by practitioners in the community.
You can even customize them furtherwith charting tools like side by
side photos, check and range scales.
To see how Jane can help you freeup your evenings from admin tasks,
(03:07):
head to the show notes to grab thelink for your personalized demo.
If you're ready to get started, youcan use the code VITALITY at the
time of signup for a one month graceperiod applied to your new account.
it is so nice to see you again.
It's just oh, it's just, yeah, seeing yourface on the screen makes my heart smile.
Erin (03:23):
I know, it's so nice to reconnect.
It feels like the timeline collapses, fromthe last time we spoke and a different
domain that we're speaking in right now.
So I'm excited to talk about that.
Carlyn (03:33):
Oh, me too, me too.
So for those people who don't knowyou, can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and what you do?
Erin (03:42):
Yeah, definitely.
So I am an occupational therapist andI own my own business called 'Sunrise
Therapies.' My business started asa need to get out of the system of
the insurance based model and beinglimited on what we could do as OTs with
that, and now it's evolved to this.
I have a team of four, five, includingmyself and expanding more and
(04:05):
more, there's just things that comeacross my path that are exciting.
And I am a yes woman andI just say, yeah, sure.
Let's try it.
And if it works, cool.
I would say I'm all those things.
Plus I am a fur mama, a wife, you know,all those things in my personal life,
and I'm just a person that loves livingand embracing all that comes our way.
Carlyn (04:26):
I remember first seeing you in a yoga class, patio in Florida.
The sun was behind you, so that, butyou were glowing, like you were like
clearly radiating this energy thatI felt so drawn to you because you
just had this calm, kind, humorous,flexible, easygoing nature, and you
(04:47):
called out to me, and you knew me,and I was like, oh, somebody knows me.
I'm sitting there admiring youand you're like, Hey, Carlyn.
Erin (04:56):
Oh man, it's so interesting because even just you saying that
it's like, Oh my gosh, like me on theinside, I was like shaking, right?
Like I think of Inside Out.
I just went and saw the second one,but I'm like picturing that anxiety,
just like bubbling up and me usingall my tools to like, press that
down and step into my confidence.
So it feels really good tohear you say that because the
same thing back to you right?
(05:16):
It's like, oh my gosh, that's Carlyn likeyou know perspective is a real wild thing.
Carlyn (05:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, it really was.
And yeah, it was like, we were bothin kind of new roles at that time,
sort of stepping into leading things.
This was at the OT EntrepreneurSummit live in, I think was it
November of 2021 or October?
Somewhere in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you were doing some thingsand I was doing some things
(05:44):
and we were totally nervous.
I think I shook my papers that I onlygot halfway through for the whole time
I was speaking when I did my talk.
Erin (05:54):
Yeah, and I remember your talk still, like I remember being in the front
row just fully captivated by your story.
I remember crying at the end.
So just all of that, thatsummit feels like yesterday.
And to think that was however manyyears ago, and November of 21, I
had just started Sunrise in May.
It was like in fruitionJanuary through May, right?
(06:16):
But I really like bit the bullet, leftmy full time job and went for it in May.
So yeah, meeting the people there,hearing your talk, and just, I'm still
connected with many people from thatsummit and I'm so grateful for it
and just the community we have andthe mindset of OTs in general, right?
We have such a strong foundationof so many aspects, right?
(06:38):
Like with the tagline, living lifeto the fullest, like, how do you
even focus in on one thing for that?
So just the journey of gettingto where I'm at now and being
surrounded by such incredibleOTs, I'm definitely grateful for.
Carlyn (06:53):
I like how you talked about an OT mindset.
I find I'm often asked to talk aboutmindset and generally, It feels like a
little bit icky as a general term, right?
That people attach things to it, but Ilike talking about specific mindsets,
or specific ways of being and thinkingand that sort of thing, like growth
(07:14):
mindset or an entrepreneurial mindset oran OT mindset and what sort of mindset
do I need to bring to this situation?
It's not necessarilythe same for everything.
Yeah.
How would you describe an OT mindset?
Erin (07:29):
Yeah, really great question.
I love that you highlightthat it ebbs and flows, right?
So how I show up as an OT is verydifferent how I show up for my family
or stressful experiences in life I thinkthere are overlap in each of those but
when I am specifically in my OT mindsetI am very much the first thing that
comes to mind is supportive, right?
(07:50):
Like I am here to support.
it is seeing the possibilityin everything, right?
Like people coming to us andsaying, I have this goal.
I want to do ,this.
And it's like, all right, here, like inmy mind, I just see this list of okay,
here's what we need to do to get there.
So it's like open mindedness and believingin oneself, believing in the person
(08:11):
that we're serving then the last thingthat comes to mind is holistic, right?
And that's a buzzword and right.
It could mean Something to you differentthan it means to me, but for me, it's
really just looking at the mind, and howyou process and perceive this world and
what your beliefs are, the body, what isyour nervous system and your regulation
like, and how physically adept are you toshow up for the challenge we're working
(08:36):
towards and then spiritually, I thinkthat could mean, that absolutely means
something different to everyone, buteveryone has some connection, whether
it's really deep and high thinking,or it's hey, I know something bigger
is out there, or I got feelings, orit's hey, I don't believe in anything,
I just believe in life, So I thinkall of that is so important, and I
think that comes from our schooling.
Like I remember studying for myboards and being like, Oh my gosh,
(08:58):
how am I going to remember this?
I feel like I was like apsychologist, a nurse, like all
these like different domains.
So I think as much as that waskiller when I was studying, I am so
grateful to have that background.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious if you think of any ofthose, words came up or different
things come up for you for OT Mindset.
Carlyn (09:18):
I think so, and I really like how you talked about your unique
way of showing up, that this isn'tjust how OTs show up, this is, this
is, my flavor, my values, my stamp,my way of seeing the world and my
clients and my role and all of thatwas encompassed in that description.
So I love that.
So in my mind, I'm going to twothings like a OT mindset generally
(09:42):
and my own, but I'll come atit with my own for starters.
And I, my work is twofold, right?
So I, I know you know this,but listeners may not know.
I have, a private practice with,which is mostly adult mental health
and I have a program, called ACTivateVitality where I mentor and support OTs
(10:02):
They're, therapy business owners, but itjust happens to be that mostly OTs join.
and I feel like I show up, fairlysimilar in both of those roles.
I'm not an OT when I'm working withpeople internationally, it's a different
relationship, but still, I feellike I'm showing up with a sense of
curiosity and openness and flexibility.
(10:23):
Also, similar to the way you've describedseeing possibility, that sense of, I
can see what they can't and they're in aspot where it's hard to see possibility.
And it's great to be able tobe that, visionary for them.
And, be able to talk about what'simportant and where they want to get to.
And, building that bridgebetween here and there.
That kind of is our activity analysis and,assessing the person and the situation
(10:47):
and the occupations and all of that sortof thing, and then seeing what needs to
be built to get over here, when you'rein that hurting spot, you tend to think,
there's here or there, there's not, theycan't see the middle very often, a lot of
my, mental health clients in particular,and so I, I love that sense of, being
that person who sees possibility but alsoreally tunes in with the individual and,
(11:09):
and listens and create safety and, spacewhere they can feel comfortable to show
up as they are, with whatever is present.
So I work really hard.
Actually, I put a lot of time andeffort into establishing that safe
relationship, but it actually isn't hard.
Like it's a thing that comes naturally.
(11:29):
Like I couldn't imagine another way.
so it's a priority, I guessis probably what I'm saying.
Erin (11:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think it really resonates somethingthat I didn't add about myself is
I work specifically with the nonspeaking, minimally speaking, or
unreliably speaking autistic community.
So that safety is so huge, and justeven hearing you talk about how you
assess and gather information, right?
It's a discussion.
(11:55):
Some of these, majority ofthese guys and gals don't have a
voice yet to share that, right?
it's a lot of like intuitive thinkingand experiences, leaning into
parents, and the whole family, hasbeen through a lot of experiences.
A lot of the families thatcome to me right now are teens,
(12:15):
like teens to young adults.
So they've been through a system thatdidn't believe in them, didn't do all
these things about that OT mindset, right?
Like they didn't look at themholistically, they didn't believe
in them, they didn't assess theirmental health and how we can
support them in all those areas.
So, it's just for me, that safetyand that neuroception of safety
and building that is so huge.
(12:36):
I think about that so heavily in mywork, but then if I just go out and
hang out with family or friends,I'm not thinking about it as much.
So it's interesting to hear you say,working collaboratively with other
OTs, I'm just authentically myself.
I'm not like, Clinically thinking abouthow can I build this safety, right?
I'm hoping I'm presenting that and I hopeit's like a neat thing in me, but when
(12:57):
I am serving my families and my clients,I am very intentional with like my body
placement, my words, because their lifehas been surrounded in the opposite,
under a perception of unsafety and threat.
Carlyn (13:10):
How did you go about learning that?
Because I imagine some of that isinnately how you show up, knowing you,
having spent a lot of time with you.
But I find it helpful to learn whatit is that I do naturally that works,
and then, you know right, like thateducation is affirming and then also
knowing that there's things that Ido that, ooh, that could be received
(13:30):
in not the way that's intentional.
So sometimes I can cross myarms and I'm like, oh, yeah, no,
that's not the body language.
I wanna, I want to have anopen posture here, right?
Yes.
Erin (13:39):
Yeah.
I know.
I feel like my favorite like CEUcourses are the ones where I'm like,
Oh, yeah, I've been doing that.
That makes sense, right?
it's I've been doing it, butnow I have this, evidence
based information behind it.
Yeah.
But I do think I learned it with mywork, honestly, for what felt safe
for me, and, going through my ownhealing journey and learning what
(14:00):
felt regulating for my body, and thenexploring that within my sessions.
And then honestly, doing things andseeing the reaction from the individual
because it's different for everyone.
Yes, there's like uniform ones of crossingour arms or just general body language,
but even learning, and this goes back to alot of the work that I'm being led to for
(14:22):
OTs specifically, learning how to reallytruly regulate myself so that I could be
a strong co regulation partner for theseindividuals that their bodies are there
are arousal spikes and it could feel scaryfor our nervous system even though in
our minds we know it's not intentional orthey're not truly like wanting to do the
things they're doing it still feels scaryto our nervous system so, I think just
(14:48):
doing the work over and over, trial anderror, exploring, working collaboratively.
The individuals I serve are the bestteachers, I get the best feedback from
how their body responds, or those thatdo have a voice through, alternative
communication have shared specific waysto be supportive for this community.
Carlyn (15:05):
And it's interesting when you think about, the autistic population as
well, where sometimes if you're workingwith, somebody who wasn't autistic,
you might be seeking to be more directin the connection where that could
feel really dysregulating dependingon the person you're working with.
So creating safety by creating abit of distance can also, depending
(15:26):
on the situation, I imagine.
I'm not the expert inthat, tell me about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erin (15:32):
So I think, again, I feel like we cannot say it enough, right?
That each individual person isindividual for a reason, but I will
say that Sometimes it is just timeand space, but in conjunction with
that, it is like affirming and ageappropriate language in those moments.
In OT school, and in my fieldworkand my first jobs, I was taught to
(15:54):
just turn everything off when someonegets dysregulated, reduce all sensory
stimuli, which, yeah, makes sense tosome extent for the nervous system.
But how alone does that feel?
If everyone just shuts off when yourbody's losing it and is in fight or flight
and it's just, they're sitting around.
And so many individuals will sit likewith arms crossed or hands like down at
their waist, in this like wide stance,almost like a security guard, right?
(16:19):
that, for me, previously, in theschool systems and in outpatient
clinic settings, that's what we weretaught to do, 'shut up and just wait'.
I will say that space and time has beengreat, but I don't stand like that,
and I don't stay completely quiet.
I'll write on a whiteboardand say, I am safe here.
I can trust my body, this will pass, orI'll like, model deep breaths, or I'll say
(16:41):
those things in a gentle voice, and I'llsit down on the ground with them, right?
So it is individualized based on thearousal level and the safety needs of
the individual and myself, and whoeverelse is there, but I don't think always
space or distance is good, becausethat feels isolating, like you're too
scared to come near me, and now, oh mygosh, I did this, and then that spiral,
(17:02):
that we have spoken about in our work.
I have this here because I waslooking back at all my notes
from when I took your course.
I was like, oh my gosh, it's sofull circle and I'm just, you
know, all the work is so important.
Yeah.
Carlyn (17:17):
Oh, I love that.
For the people who are listening anddon't see what Erin just held up,
it was her ACTivate Vitality plannerfrom when she joined the ACTivate
Vitality program at the end of 2021.
And yeah, it was fun to be ableto work with you for that next
season, and, yeah, really neat.
So one of the things that's transitionedrecently is you're doing more, educating
(17:40):
and mentoring other therapists andwe can talk a little bit more about
that, but here, the little link I'mthinking is a lot of what you're
doing, you've learned skillfully,but you're also doing intuitively.
How are you teachingthat to new clinicians?
Erin (17:58):
Yeah, so right now my focus of my work is specifically for clinicians,
specifically OT, we'll see if thatexpands, about this population, and
how I am so grateful for my OT degree.
And in the same breath, I am frustratedwith the schooling around this specific
topic, and I want to change that, andthat's where this fire came from for me,
(18:21):
I will say that my focus is definitelyon mindset because we need to change
our beliefs and what we've been toldand what society has been told as a
whole about this community, right?
And it is really hard to changethat belief when we are seeing these
individuals bodies act out in a waythat is, you know, from a nervous
system response, fight or flight, right?
(18:42):
Freeze, shut down, all of that.
The beginning and the end of my courseworkand my mentorship is on mindset.
So it is a lot of journaling andreflecting of just, Hey, where are you at
right now?' I run through some questions,same questions that I asked myself when
I entered this community and I saw thatthese individuals had so much in them.
And understanding the mind, body,disconnect, and apraxia, and all the
(19:05):
things we know through TBI and stroke,but we don't connect to this community.
And then I go through all the courseworkexplaining all that and connecting
the dots that OT schools should beconnecting and will be in the future.
And then at the end, I go through, okay,here are the same or similar questions,
'how are you feeling now that we'veconnected some of these dots, right?'
(19:26):
'Where is your mindset at?
How are you going to continue tocarry this out?' Because I'm guilty
of it too, of going through a CEUcourse, learning it, being jazzed on
all the information, and then goingright back to old patterns, right?
So a lot of self reflection, questions,learning in between to see the growth
and then follow up mentorship foraccountability and just strategies like
(19:50):
I've learned in your course too and justlearned through my own self development
and all the courses I've taken and thetherapy I've done right and continue to
do in terms of tiny, consistent stepsday by day, so that's how right now, and
it evolves, every new self help book I'mlearning for myself, I am integrating
into my mentorship for someone elsebecause it might resonate, and maybe they
(20:11):
don't have time to read that whole book,so here's my bite sized chunk of what
I learned in this book, let's try it.
Carlyn (20:17):
I like how you've structured that because I find, a lot of OTs
I talk to really crave signing upfor more and more CEUs and more and
more courses and do you send out therecordings and that sort of thing.
And the real magic actually happens inthe conversations and the reflections
and the troubleshooting and the,'Hey, this thing happened' and 'I
(20:38):
tried this' and that's where lotsof really good learning happens.
Certainly, modules and textbooksand learning are valuable.
Like we've, we take in a lot ofinformation, but when it comes
to transformation, I find inthose more relational kind of
engagements, community or individual.
Yeah.
(20:58):
And you've structured it for that Iknow there's lots of content to even
say on there, like information dense,I think was listed on your thing.
OTs want to see that for sure.
And, but we have to do all this otherstuff or else it's going nowhere.
Erin (21:12):
Yeah.
And I remember actually going throughyour coursework it's so funny.
One specific thought is standing in myhead, I remember like folding laundry
in the laundry room and like listeningto your coursework and being like, Oh
my gosh, I got to pause that and rewind.
it was like, I was so investedin it because it had all
those aspects too, right?
(21:32):
Like you have the community and thetime to meet and discuss with you.
So I was, way more investedin the coursework because I
knew, not that I had to, right?
But I was committing to coming to thosesessions and then discussing okay, you
know, what, what's going on for you now?
And how does this tie intoeverything we've been talking about?
(21:53):
So that made me invest in it more thanjust, let me just listen to this on two
times the speed while I'm driving, youknow, there's just different levels and
again, full circle, depending on whenyou're listening to a course, you may
choose to do two times the speed becauseyou feel so stressed and you're just
trying to check things off your list,but what good is that doing, right?
Like, sure, you may grab two or threelittle key points, but are you going
(22:17):
to implement and see the real changeand then be able to connect on a deep
level with the others in the communitythat are also doing similar work?
Yeah, it's definitely key.
Carlyn (22:26):
And social learning, I feel like it's just such
almost a learning hack, right?
But it's, I don't use the term hack a lot,but that sense of being in community with
each other, we just naturally want to,grow and learn in similar ways, right?
So if you're in community with otherpeople who are learning the same
thing, or somebody's talking outTheir thing that they're working
(22:48):
on, that we're learning that, right?
Like it's just this wayof absorbing it socially.
That's so powerful.
Erin (22:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
And hearing other people'sperspectives, right?
Like you may go through coursework andsomeone shares like, Oh, I perceived it
this way, or I'm implementing it this way.
And you didn't even think of that.
And you're like, Oh, I need to try thatversus again, just listening to a webinar
that was recorded and, calling it a day.
yeah.
And maybe that's.
I think that's a clear skill that wehave of that full picture, the full
(23:21):
understanding and the true passion andwanting for the people we are serving.
Like seeing their potential and.
wanting them to take it furtherthan just listening and getting
their four credits for licensure.
Carlyn (23:32):
Yes.
I liked that when I was lookingthrough your pages you address
that sort of thing, right?
and similarly, I'm not listed with anysort of, I serve people internationally.
I can't possibly register what I do withAll of the different regulatory bodies
that people might join from, and I'malso a little bit resistant to the whole
(23:53):
idea, that we need to structure ourlearning for our learning needs for our
professional and personal growth, andtake responsibility and accountability for
that learning and, and I'm a bit miffedby regulatory systems that require you to
only do this many CEUs from a list becauseI don't think that meets the intention
(24:17):
of continuing education in any way.
But, I also recognize that theseare systems that we're working in.
It's similar to both of us leavinghealthcare system too, right?
it's I get it.
There's this system.
I get how I relate to that.
It's a little bit differentbecause these are my values.
This is how I approach educationand mentorship, support, and.
And come if this fits for you.
Erin (24:39):
yeah, exactly.
I don't think of myself aslike a rebellious person.
I mean, maybe as a teenager, right?
Like reflecting back, butI feel like it's funny.
We were just, we had gone to Disneyand I was pointing out all my
favorite characters and my husband waslike, you always like the underdog.
Like you like the little sidekick.
I love like, Hey, Hey, or Groot, I likeall the little not main characters.
(25:02):
And I was like, I think heactually pointed it out.
He was like, and that's kindof telling for the work you do.
Like you're always trying to helpthat person that's in the back scene.
Right.
And you're there to advocateand do the fight with them.
So I think like both in my work with theautistic population and just work with
OTs, it's I don't want to be that person.
That's ah, screw the system, you know?
(25:24):
No, but it's like, Not but, Ialways say one of my good colleagues
has taught me but end, right?
It could be both.
You don't have to negatethat thing before.
it could be that like you, I'm sopassionate about OTs and the work we do
that I see us being the bestpeople to be serving the community
that I serve in this way, right?
(25:46):
Because we have all this background andI feel like it's a disservice that we
aren't being taught it earlier on, right?
So it's same thing with theaccreditation or, the healthcare system
that they're not approving OT to bedone with these individuals I serve
because they're aged out or, they'renot going to make progress, right?
So it's We are advocating for a betterfuture as a whole for OT and the
(26:07):
communities we serve, even if it feelsuncomfortable or a little bit scary.
it's important, and I think if there'sone thing I've learned through my
entrepreneur journey is like, when Ifeel scary, or I get that feeling in my
stomach, like I did before this podcast,those are the things you should be doing,
Yes, balancing them with the thingsthat feel like, oh, relax and,
neuroception safety, but buildingthat resiliency, okay, in yourself, in
(26:30):
those that you serve, in a comfortableway and noticing in your body when
you feel that and noticing what thatmeans and what to do next is so huge.
And if that means that you're going to bepushing against something that you once
were like, Oh, I need to follow this.
I remember being a new grad andbeing like, Oh, I have to like,
(26:51):
Follow exactly everything to a T,but if you're passionate about it,
you're passionate for a reason.
So, messages to follow it and trust.
Carlyn (26:59):
Yeah, but when that fear comes up, tuning into the difference between a fear
that is truly like, we shouldn't do that.
Yeah, for sure.
and that's, and it's tricky becauseour nervous system is being protective
when, We're feeling fearful aboutexpanding into something new, but
being able to discern that differencebetween moving in an intentional way
(27:20):
and experiencing the fear of change,versus, you know, the other way.
And so being able to embrace that,yes, when I grow, when I expand
into something new and I careabout it deeply, I do get nervous.
I do experience fear.
I do experience self doubt andthat's actually to be expected
and part of the journey anytimeI expand into something new.
(27:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Erin (27:43):
I always use the term, nerve-cited, or like reframing fear like excitement
or momentum to do the next thing.
So that's been something I've beenworking on with my therapist in the
past, probably three months of runninga business isn't easy, you know this,
And the pressure we put on ourselves ascaring and giving individuals I've fallen
into that trap of feeling like everystressor is so pressing and I have to
(28:09):
do it right now, and just learning thatpause of, is this pertinent, or like,
why am I feeling this, to then, Helpme make the next best decision, right?
Versus impulsively feeling it and doingit, and missing out on that pause.
it's so huge to just pause forliterally a millisecond and
say, why am I feeling this?
And then take the next stepversus just the impulsive action.
Carlyn (28:33):
Yeah.
We want to get out of discomfort,but there's, if we can linger there
with curiosity, can learn a lot andthen make really intentional next
steps that are really values aligned.
Yeah, 100%.
I have a question that just came fromwho knows where for you about, the
word or the phrase self care becauseI have my perspective on it and just
(28:57):
like the self care movement so I'mcurious, what does that mean to you?
So I feel like it's one of those wordsthat have been a little bit, like
things have been attached to it, right?
And so the true essence of caringfor oneself is so much deeper
than we automatically think ofwhen somebody says self care.
(29:20):
super easy for someone to go,oh, I need to do more self care.
Okay, maybe I'll book a massage and a nailappointment and have some bubble baths.
Cool, if that's what you need.
Is that deeply caring for yourperson as a whole entity, right?
And what does your soul need, right?
what does your body need?
What does your spirit need?
(29:41):
Like that, I feel like it's so muchdeeper and if not grounded in self
compassion, might be a bit superficial.
and so I've, I've done a couple talksaround shifting that kind of superficial
self care toward deeper, really focusingon self compassion and out of self
(30:01):
compassion grows acts of self care.
Because I think it's important.
Self care is generally the actof caring, like it's what are the
actions, the occupations that are,aligned with caring for oneself.
But if it's not grounded in havingcompassion for yourself, that's maybe
where the real work needs to happen.
Erin (30:20):
Yeah, I love that you separated to the surface level.
self care because I do think likewhen I say self care, even in my mind,
like the first thing that pops up is abubble bath, like visually in my mind.
So I totally agree thatthere's two different types.
There's this deeper awareness, andfinding space and connecting with
(30:40):
what self care actually feels like andis bringing to you as a whole being.
and I recognize how much work it takes to.
Get to that deeper level self care, right?
I think, I know from my ownexperience that self care can
be self deprecating, right?
(31:00):
you could be like, I'm just gonna drinka glass of wine and sit in a bathtub
and everything will be fine, right?
Because I don't truly wantto see what's inside, right?
Or, They could go so deep where it'sI'm just gonna sit and meditate and do
nothing all day for two weeks, right?
So it's I think there's thiscontinuum of it that it could be
(31:22):
like, way superficial, or it couldbe like, you're limiting yourself
by saying, Oh, I'm doing self care.
I'm really like, I love woowoo, don't get me wrong.
But I think woo woo can take us to apoint where we're just avoiding, right?
So it's like everything, right?
There's like a sweet spot for everyone.
And that might look different for me.
(31:42):
It's that I would be like, I'mgoing to meditate and do yoga and
everything's going to be great.
And I don't need to have a to do list.
I don't need a schedule.
And then my world falls apart.
I'm just going to go with the flow.
Like for me as an entrepreneur, runningmultiple things out of my business, right?
That just didn't work for me.
But the other end didn't work whereI worked really, really hard and
then for a weekend I would do nowork and drink wine and sit in a
(32:06):
bathtub or get my nails done, right?
I've found the ebb andflow of doing both, right?
Cause there's some days likeyesterday where I was just
like, grind, grind, grind.
Whereas today I'm like,I'm chatting with you.
This doesn't feel like work, So I thinkholding ourselves accountable is a big
piece in it as well and not lettingit this, like having compassion for
(32:26):
ourself, be another excuse to avoid.
I think there's also, yougotta call yourself out, right?
hey, you're just, you're bullshitright now, and you need to
just go do the thing, right?
Carlyn (32:36):
Yeah.
And different acts can, representdifferent needs at different times, right?
I could be like, hey,I am exhausted today.
I'm gonna have popcorn for supper.
And, maybe, a sparkling water.
And, that's not going to bemy everyday, but that's today.
And that could be a good thing today, ifthat became my habit for the rest of the
(32:59):
month, I'm, I'm not nourishing myself.
I'm not caring for myself.
And yes, it's a sort of seeing, arewe in, supporting our needs and tuning
into what we need in any given moment.
Like a bubble bath truly could bean act of kindness and self care
if that's where you're needing.
You're needing to pause.
You're needing to break the routine.
(33:19):
You're like, I sometimes meditatein the bath, like for three minutes
or something like that, right?
And I, have some essential oilsthat I love and it's just like this
representation of slowing down inmy routine and caring for myself.
but that could be a whole differentvibe if it's just yep, self care check.
I had a bath and, whatever.
I listened to my modules for thecourse I'm doing at the same time.
(33:42):
Yep.
Erin (33:43):
Yeah.
So true.
Yeah.
Spot on.
Even just last week, I had a superstressful week and my body was hurting.
I took a lot of Epsom salt baths,but they were not self care baths.
They were like survival.
let me get in here.
So my body feels good.
Let me sit on my phone and scroll.
it wasn't like, let meconnect with myself.
And you know what, that'swhat I needed in that moment.
I needed to like mentally check out andlet my body do its thing and healing.
(34:06):
And it's a new day, a new week.
So yeah.
Thanks for sharing that.
Carlyn (34:10):
A girlfriend of mine taught me that a popcorn bowl will
actually float in the bathtub.
That's a game changer!
Who knew?
Erin (34:17):
Wow.
All right, I'll test it.
I'll let you know how mine comes.
That's great.
Carlyn (34:23):
So I would love to hear more about what you've been really
passionate about building in this space.
These last several, over the lastyear, but you really, launched
into it the last quarter.
Erin (34:34):
yeah, like I said, I started my, clinical work.
we are a mobile OT practice in SouthernCalifornia where we provide, it's
evolved yeah, I guess it evolved,because at first, you're just,
grabbing whoever you can see, right?
Now it's very specifically forthis non speaking community.
And I just, attracted so many amazingtherapists, and I had no idea it would
(34:56):
ever be this way, where I am reachingfamilies all across America, across the
globe, where it's I just, I can't doit all as myself, whereas that was my
game plan, I was like, I'm just gonnago do this thing for myself, and and the
community, from there, I just realized, Icannot do this even just within Sunrise.
Even if I grew to like a great bigcorporate business, which I will
(35:17):
never do, I will grow and continueto serve, but I will never sell out.
I'm like, let me see where I could,teach OTs that are ready in this
world and feeling similarly tohow I felt right before I left
my full time, comfortable job.
And instead of So many OTs that I mentorjust locally that I've had as like
fieldwork students or volunteers, theygraduate and then they start their first
(35:40):
job and then they hop to the next andthey hop to the next because they're
just having the same challenges becausethe autistic community is growing,
We don't really know why or what,but there are so many more autistic
individuals that need to be servedand OT is a huge part of that.
service provider for that,understandably so, right?
I think so many people, even myself, Iwent into this career, I was like, I love
(36:02):
kids, I love working with this population,but I was so stifled by what I was
taught in OT school of how to address it,honestly, in conjunction with insurance
and all the stuff we spoke about.
So that has led me to want to advocateto change the schooling and like
the coursework that we're having.
(36:23):
Not completely obliterate it, right?
There's some really good informationin there, but add to it, Enrich it
with the new knowledge we have fromthe individuals we are serving,
Like they are the best teachers.
So I can't go right in and becomea professor and change every
curriculum, So I wanted to startwith OTs that are already doing
this work and feeling the same way.
(36:43):
And remind them that, hey, you don'tneed to give up on this career.
I can't tell you how many onFacebook groups, I'm sure you
see it too, of hey, I'm thinkingabout leaving the OT profession.
And it's oh, that breaks myheart, For multiple reasons.
But I do know a lot of OTs that arelike, I just can't reach my clients, or
I have no idea how to get them regulated,my sensory diets aren't working, They
(37:03):
want me to work on fine motor in school.
So I was like, this is just mindblowing that this is still happening.
and So I started the coursework of,hey, if you're feeling this way, if
deep down in your gut, intuitively,that there is something more for the
individuals that you're serving thatyou love and care about, but you're
just feeling out of alignment becauseyou weren't set up with the tools, and
(37:24):
you're working in this space that isn'tpresuming competence, and we just gotta
crank them out for insurance, we don'tcare what you do in your sessions.
Here's someone that wentthrough that, right?
I'm here to hear you out, seewhere you're at, give you what I've
learned to get me to this point offeeling so fulfilled in my work.
I still will see eight clientsin a day and feel my body is
exhausted, but my heart is so full.
(37:46):
And that is very different than yourbody being exhausted and your heart
being Conflicted morally, right?
because I have to do it this way becausethe red tape in the school district, or
I have to do it this way because I hadno time to prep for my clients, you know?
So, yeah, my main focus right nowis just getting the information
out there to OTs because we aresuch Makers of change, right?
(38:06):
And once we find things, I feel likewe all get really passionate and we are
helping, and I think it could have a hugeripple effect across the globe that I
can't have with just me and my team here.
That's a long answer.
Carlyn (38:19):
That is a good answer though.
You are truly doing your soul's work.
working with the individuals I know ispowerful and you'll never not do that,
I'm sure, but you can help so many morepeople if you can empower these therapists
who need to know how to do what you do.
Erin (38:37):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think just a word that poppedinto my mind is ego too, right?
I could sit here and be like, I'mgoing to do this all on my own
because I can't trust people becauseI've been broken in the past, right?
But there's again, full circle,what we're talking about, there's
so much power in community andconnection and understanding and the
families are they're dying for this.
(38:59):
If they don't know that this and theseprofessionals that are out there yet.
They are like in at home alonethinking, I wish someone would
just see my son as I see him.
Or I would truly presume competence.
Or be truly neurodiversity affirming.
Again, all buzzwords.
But what does that mean?
And how do we really speak to theseindividuals and their families in a
(39:22):
way that no one else ever has becausethe system hasn't taught us to do that?
It's taught us all these other beliefsthat we need to get rid of and reprogram.
Carlyn (39:32):
So what are the main things that you are trying to shift people away from?
Things that we learned and whatare some of the biggies that
are, that we need to reprogram?
Erin (39:43):
Yes, I'm glad you asked.
My first thing I would saythat we were taught that
autism is a cognitive disorder.
there are, we know autism is aspectrum, specifically in this
community where they used to belabeled as low functioning, right?
But now we say high support needs, right?
That they are not intelligent, that theyhave cognitive delays or intellectual
(40:09):
disabilities, that they don't understandwhat we're saying, whereas I would
reprogram all that to they have a bodythat is not cooperating with their mind,
and As a yoga teacher and doing yogafor myself, mind body connection is so
big, For this community, it is so muchdeeper of how do we truly get their
bodies to cooperate with their minds.
(40:32):
and then the other aspectis that it is behavioral.
How many families or how many IPs witha BIP, a Behavior Intervention Plan.
I don't even use that word, right?
it is a trigger word for me.
Yes, we all have behaviors, right?
Like, how we behave.
But for me, it's just motor actionsthat their body is doing because their
(40:52):
nervous system is either triggeredor that it is a stuck pattern,
Just like we see, spoken loops of.
Saying the same movie script over andover, the body does the same thing,
Changing that the intellect isn't therebecause it is there, and they are truly
wanting to learn and they don't wantto be drilled, say ball, say ball,
(41:13):
because Apraxia doesn't discriminate.
It's in the mouth.
It's in the whole body.
And that they are not being behavioral.
They are not intentionally tryingto harm you or harm themselves or
ignore what you're asking them to do.
It is that their body won'tlisten to their brain.
that's a cliff note.
Yeah.
And then we layer in sensoryand trauma and, you know,
(41:36):
how does that all correlate?
And, just, The simplest shift ofspeaking to a 32 year old autistic
male, like a 32 year old male, is huge.
And how much could that balance outregulation and help their nervous
system feel safe instead of truncatingour language or talking about
him in front of him, all of that.
Carlyn (41:58):
Yeah.
And I imagine in the less verbal Autisticpeople you work with, that's even
more that people are often not gettingtheir cues for how to interact with
this person from the person verbally,and therefore assuming, making all
sorts of assumptions and assumptions.
Erin (42:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And I even highlightthat, the verbal word.
I'm such a stickler forwords in this community.
Yeah.
Ask my, side note, my, really greatfriend, she helps me out with some social
media, social right things, and I, changeit all the time, and she's I'm sorry.
I'm like, I know I'm apain in the butt, but, um.
It's important.
The words are important.
Yes.
(42:38):
Yeah, so I would say thiscommunity is very verbal, Because
verbal is language, right?
They understand language.
They have language in their mind.
They just aren't speaking.
They understand verbal language, right?
They are verbal in their mind.
They just cannot get their mouthto say what their brain is saying.
Carlyn (42:55):
That's a huge distinction.
Thank you for correcting me.
Yeah, totally.
Erin (42:58):
Of course, we're always learning, right?
Absolutely.
And I will highlight that itdiffers for everyone, right?
You just gotta ask, do you preferto me to refer to it as autistic
or a person with autism, right?
it's individualized, but I think,again, just, you know, Opening that
space to ask that question is huge.
Those are really important shifts.
So for people, OTs who want toconnect with what you have to
(43:22):
offer, how should they find you?
How would they find that information?
Yeah, definitely.
my OT focused area is otlevelup.
com and that has all my offeringsand just like a little more into
me and my style and my kind of,I call it my no BS approach.
I just say it as it is, I keep it real.
(43:42):
I'm an open book.
And then on Instagram is mainlywhere I'm the most active.
So Erin.Clarelli, or just ErinClarelli, I don't even know.
Carlyn (43:52):
I'll link it in the show notes accurately.
Yes,
Erin (43:54):
Thank you.
And then my clinical workis Sunrise Therapies.
So if you want to learn there, I posta lot of like clinical based learning
there, whereas my other Erin Clarelliis like lifestyle, mindset work.
All of that stuff, but yeah, I would loveto connect, even just to jump on a call.
Like I am so passionate about making thisripple effect and there's no ego involved.
(44:18):
If I could sit and talk with youfor five minutes, ten minutes and
make a change, I'm here to do it.
So let's make it happen.
Carlyn (44:26):
Oh, I love the integrity in that.
Yeah, we often, get coaching when we'redoing something more entrepreneurial
about, different ways of, don't coachon a call, like a clarity call, you
need to leave them feeling the pain,basically, so that they'll buy.
And it's oh my gosh, if I can,if the person's situation can
(44:47):
be caught, solved in a quickconversation, I'm happy to do that.
I, yeah.
They are not the ideal client forthe bigger thing I have to offer.
let's make a difference.
Erin (44:56):
Yeah, like why withhold anything?
Yeah, it feels so icky.
And I think again, that's why thecommunity that we've connected
with and built with like mindedentrepreneurs that are like, I'm
not gonna use that sales technique.
Nope.
I'm just gonna be myself.
I'm gonna give what I can and help supportpeople where, Everyone is at a different
stage, both financially and time wise,not everyone can commit to an eight hour
(45:20):
course that really requires some innerwork, So let's just give some tips to
make change right now, and maybe in thefuture, but maybe they don't need it.
Maybe the path leads them to a placewhere they discover it themselves,
Carlyn (45:32):
I love that.
I have a few questions thatI ask everybody at the end.
Are you ready for those?
what does being brave mean to you?
Erin (45:44):
I think I touched on this, but doing the thing when it's scary and maybe
goes against what the majority believes.
but if you truly believe it in your heartand your soul, just trust and go for it.
Especially, hopefully, if it's for good,
especially for good.
Carlyn (46:03):
Yeah.
And what's something braveyou've done recently?
Erin (46:06):
I got on this podcast.
Yes, you did.
it did feel brave.
but let me think if there's anything else.
I did last week.
I do a lot of work with otherorganizations, hopping in and out.
and sometimes that can feel scary tostep into A space where a team is already
established, like you're connected withthem, but you're not there in the daily.
So last week I had went in and didlike an intensive therapy week with
(46:30):
that group that is always so welcomingand, supportive, but it feels really
scary, to just plop into this worldthat's been going on without you.
And it's in a world that I highly respectand value, so I put a lot of pressure
on myself, but I showed up each day thatweek, and I gave my best, and I felt like
I made an impact, so I'd say that, too.
Carlyn (46:52):
That sounds really meaningful.
It definitely was.
And what would you like to see OTsget a little bit more brave about?
Erin (47:03):
Challenging the norm, Stepping out of our box that we put ourselves in or
that the system puts us in, And especiallyfor pediatrics and school based.
advocate for that kid thathas sensory needs, but may
not fully qualify for an IEP,
Share what's on yourheart in IEP meetings.
Don't be afraid to speak up becauseyou're on the other side of the table,
quotation marks, In the insurancespace, advocate for more clinical time.
(47:27):
To prep and provide qualitycare, Don't just take it and
feel like that's all you can do.
so yeah, just step outside of thebox and challenge what the system
thinks of us as OTs, especially inthe population I've been discussing.
Carlyn (47:42):
And I usually ask at this stage, how people can connect with you.
So you've already said yourInstagram, Erin Clarelli.
I'll put the link exactly as it, so peoplecan click on that in the show notes.
And, your website, youmentioned also otlevelup.
com, and if people want to connectwith Sunrise, and you're open to
people booking a chat with you andyou just see where it goes from there.
(48:05):
yeah, definitely.
the Sunrise is actuallySunriseTherapiesINC.
com.
Perfect.
Thank you.
The other one was taken.
So yeah, both those sites willconnect you to a way to, book a call
with me or just email me, whateverit is, DM me, all the cool ways to
connect that the kids are saying.
I have a question about that,Doesn't fall in with my last few
(48:30):
questions, but I'm on a lot ofFacebook groups with neurodiverse OTs.
And, seeing a lot of struggles withworking, being in placements where
their needs aren't, being accommodatedor understood and they're not
sure how to advocate and, whetherthat's students or new clinicians.
(48:50):
is that a group thatyou're connecting with?
Erin (48:53):
not specifically OTs.
We do have a handfulof, like late diagnosed.
Autism or ADHD in my clinical work,but we're doing similar things in
terms of, lifestyle redesign, one ofmy therapists is trained in that, is
really amazing, so yeah, I think itcould overlap right now, no, the path
hasn't led me directly there, but, yeah.
(49:14):
Maybe it will, who knows?
Carlyn (49:16):
it seems to be a big gap there.
Like I'm seeing it as a gap.
I'm, I have ADHD and I've been ableto make my business work for me.
and I'm seeing where these cliniciansat these stages in placement and early
career, and it doesn't have to be like,it can be a struggle at any point, but
experiencing employers that don't get it.
And then the irony being that,as OTs, We should be the most
(49:39):
accommodating for differences, andthat's seeming to be not the case
for these autistic OTs in particular.
Erin (49:47):
yeah, that's a really interesting experience.
And I do speak a lot, again,pushing the norms of, I think, as
employers, There's definitely, youneed to hear your employees, right?
And their needs and you need to helpthem feel seen, heard and supported.
And I think of ADHD and how it'sso overdiagnosed in the, in youth.
(50:09):
yes, our society, I could go on a wholenother tangent with ADHD in youth, but, I
think we need to be really careful abouthow we're supporting the neurodiversity
community and late diagnoses and reallySupporting the narrative of, we all have
challenges, and, there's different levelsof support, so in the community that I
(50:32):
support, there has been frustration of,being undervalued with their diagnoses
because there's such an influx of, so manymore lower, quote unquote, support needs.
being diagnosed or self diagnosed, right?
So I want to encourage anyone listeningthat if you are concerned or you are
feeling that any of these neurodiversitydiagnoses are part of your being, right?
(50:57):
Go to a skilled clinician, right?
Really find out more about yourselfAnd I want to highlight that while,
also honoring that, yeah, there area lot of late diagnoses and people
that have gone through Really roughexperiences because they didn't
know this is what was happening.
And that comes back to that employer lensof We have 90 percent of our work, our
workforce that is saying, I need theseaccommodations, how do we operate, right?
(51:20):
And how do we accommodate everyone?
so I just, I wanted to highlightthat of protecting those that do
really need the support and reallyworking clinically with someone that
could help you find the supports.
That are most effective anddon't really, drill down the
employer, don't take advantageof the system, is all I'm saying.
Carlyn (51:39):
Yeah, no that's fair.
And it's hard to get a diagnosis too, It'shard to get those appointments and or be
referred on if your primary provider isn'tbuying it, or Yeah, isn't validating.
Yeah.
So many obstacles and, yeah,figuring out how to do our best.
But I think it comes down towhat are our individual needs.
(51:59):
Like no diagnosis comes with alist of accommodations, right?
And, what do you need?
How do you ask for that?
how do you ask for what youneed within a situation?
Or how can you stretch and build yourcapacity in an area where that's possible.
And then sometimes not everyjob is a good fit for us too.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So very true.
thank you so much for being here.
(52:21):
I am really excited to see youat this stage in your journey.
It was so wonderful to work withyou a couple of years ago, and
I'm glad you reached out now asyou're blossoming into new things.
Erin (52:32):
Ah, thank you for all the continued work you do and creating
this that keeps my life organized.
I'm holding up the planner again!
But yeah, this has been really great.
Thank you so much.
You're most welcome.
Carlyn (52:43):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of the BRAVE OT Podcast.
I hope you found our conversation asinspiring and thought provoking as I did.
Remember, growth comes from challengingthe norm and embracing our unique
paths with integrity and compassion.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I invite you to please subscribe,
rate, and leave a review.
(53:03):
Your feedback helps us continueto bring you insightful
discussions and inspiring guests.
And don't forget to connectwith Erin on Instagram and check
out her offerings at otlevelup.
com.
If you would like to be surroundedby a community of OTs who can
help you do big, brave things likeErin has, please reach out to me.
(53:24):
I accept new people into ACTivateVitality approximately quarterly.
So sometime in the new year, Iwill be opening the doors again.
So I would love to chat with you.
if this is something youthink will help you in 2025.
Stay curious, be kind, and rememberyou are making a difference.
I'm Carlyn Neek and thisis The BRAVE OT Podcast.
As always, be brave, OTs.
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