Ep. 40: Embracing Professional Curiosity Through Supervision in OT with Guest, Lynsay McFarlane-Shaw
February 28, 2025 • 52 mins
This podcast conversation explores supervision in occupational therapy with Lynsay McFarlane-Shaw. Lyndsay brings 30 years of pediatric OT experience and has evolved her career to focus on supervision and mentorship. We discuss the the concept of supervision in the UK as well as various other ways OTs support each other like coaching and mentorship. If you've ever wondered about ways to enhance your professional development or support others in theirs, this conversation will give you plenty to think about.
To connect with Lynsay
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To see how Jane can help you focus more on your clients than your costs, book your personalized demo today. If you're ready to get started, you can use the code VITALITY at the time of signup for a one-month grace period applied to your new account.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I've experienced my own burnout.
(00:01):
And I, on reflection, can recognizeit was a combination of factors.
It wasn't just the job,it was life and the job.
And the friction came in becauseat that point in my life, and
in my career, I wasn't aligned.
And It took me a long time torecognize that, too long in reality.
(00:24):
And I think if I had reached out forsupervision beyond, I was in the NHS
at the time, if I had reached outfor supervision beyond my service,
because there was a limit to what theycould provide me in that space, and I
fully appreciate the bounds of that.
But if I had known I could have reachedout beyond that and had a conversation
with someone to understand where I wasat better, I'm not sure I would have
(00:47):
been burnt out to the degree I was,
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
(01:08):
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
(01:30):
Today's podcast conversationexplores supervision in occupational
therapy with Lynsey McFarland Shaw.
Lynsey brings 30 years of pediatric OTexperience and has evolved her career
to focus on supervision and mentorship.
We discuss the differences betweensupervision practices internationally,
particularly contrasting the UK'sformal supervision requirements with
(01:52):
what we are doing in North Americathat's a little bit different.
if you've ever wondered aboutways to enhance your professional
development or support others intheirs, this conversation will
give you plenty to think about.
before we get into today's episode, I wantto take a quick moment to talk about JANE,
a clinic management software and EMR.
as an occupational therapist,your main priority should
be caring for your clients.
(02:12):
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(02:34):
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And if you're ready to get started,don't forget to use the code
VITALITY at signup for a one monthgrace period on your new account.
(02:56):
Hi, Lynsey.
Thank you very much for being here today.
Oh, it's a pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so grateful to be on your podcast.
I've listened to you loads, so it'slovely to be here and having a chat.
Oh, thank you.
I never know who's listening,but you are good to comment on
things when I post about them.
But it is a weird thing to be puttingsomething out into the world that
(03:16):
people sometimes quietly enjoy, andyou just never know that was the case.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's the beauty ofa podcast, though, isn't it?
We can enjoy it in somany different spaces.
And and often I listen in thecar, so I'm not near anywhere
to then go back and comment.
So it might just be something that comeslater in the kind of flow of someone's
(03:37):
social media presence that takes me backto go, Oh, yeah, I listened to that.
And it was amazing.
I think so many OTs listen in the car.
We all, many of us have that mobileaspect to the way we're working.
And it's nice to have a littlecompanion to take on those
drives through the countryside.
Absolutely.
I'm
in London, so I don't getthe countryside beauty.
But but yeah I do love that space to just.
(04:00):
Use that time to be inspiredto, I love listening, like I was
saying to you before we started,listening in to other conversations.
I have real professional curiosity, soI love to hear what other people are
doing and just different ways of beingable to be an OT and to celebrate that.
So yeah, podcasts areperfect for me in that sense.
I have real professional curiosity.
(04:21):
I love that term.
That, and that, I think that reallylends well to your area of passion
because that sense of professionalcuriosity is the thing we're
trying to inspire others toward.
So many OTs get caught up in well Idon't know everything about everything
and that can really undermine ourconfidence and essentially really it's
(04:42):
our curiosity and understanding theway we see the world as being a unique
one professionally and going in withcuriosity is where we have a lot of magic.
I actually worry when people feel theydo know everything because I think OT is
such a kind of multifaceted profession.
We're so diverse, we can work inso many different spaces that.
(05:04):
If you go, yeah, I've got this.
I know this, that worries me,because no one ever knows.
I've been in OT for, it'llbe 30 years this summer.
And I'm still learning all the time.
And I love that.
And I love seeing it done differently.
And I love someone challenging myperspective on something because it
really gives me a moment to pauseand go, okay, am I just thinking
(05:25):
that because I've always thought it?
Or am I right for thesituation I'm in right now?
that's really good.
Tell us what you do.
Okay.
So I'm Lynsey.
I am an OT supervisor.
So like I just said, I'vebeen an OT for 30 years.
I have been really lucky to work withchildren, young people and families
for all of that time bar my initialpostgraduate kind of Basic training as
(05:50):
we had it back then, in terms of joininga rotation and doing a bit of physical
health, mental health and I chose thatrotation because it had paediatrics on it.
When I got experienced enoughto get the paediatric placement,
unfortunately, it was removed from therotation, much to my disappointment.
But that led me into learningdisabilities, which was really fascinating
(06:12):
because it was children and adults.
And then I've been withchildren ever since.
So I love working with families.
I love working with young people.
it really makes OT becauseno day is the same.
And that's part of why I love what we do.
But as I've come to a newchapter of my career, 30 years
in, I suffered a back injury.
(06:33):
I just was thinking peds OT,how long can I be on the floor?
I decided to look at my otherpassions really within the profession.
And one of the things I've alwaystalked about and always either had
good or maybe not always so goodthings to say about is OT supervision.
And that's really where I'm at.
place myself now.
This is the next chapter of my career andI really want to dedicate that time to,
(06:57):
to really empowering other people to usesupervision effectively, to get trained
in supervision so they're effectivesupervisors, and as a profession, to value
the space that it provides us because Itoften, I don't know what it's like for
yourself and Canada and other parts ofthe world, but in the UK, particularly in
(07:18):
busy services, not just statutory, it canhappen in independent clinics as well.
When time's pressured, it can besomething that gets dropped to the
side and it can become a littlebit of a tick bock exercise.
And I don't like that.
I don't think that's effective.
And I don't think it values,our profession, but I also don't
think it values the person.
(07:39):
So the therapist who's there trying todevelop, trying to expand their personal
and professional skills or clinicalreasoning, that professional curiosity.
I think if we do supervision well,we can do all of those things.
When we let it get squeezed out, Ithink we're undervaluing everything, the
profession, the service and the person.
(08:01):
So I have a real passion aboutraising the profile supervision
to be something positive.
But to be delivered by skilledand trained therapists.
This should be as much a part ofour CPD as anything else that we do.
And I don't quite feelwhere they're there.
Certainly not in the UK.
I don't know what it's like elsewhere.
I'd love to know your experience,Carlyn, of what supervision across
(08:23):
your career span has looked like.
Honestly, it's not a term weuse as much in North America.
And so I think we are doing it.
My experience in Canada is that there,we're engaging in informal ways of
connecting and learning and maybe seekingout mentorship or looking to a person
(08:46):
on the staff where we work who might bea little bit more senior or who might
teach us some things but to have aformalized sort of supervision process.
I don't hear about it much here in Canada.
And in fact, in the sometimes I can hear.
elements of if you need to be supervised,then you're not an independent
clinician, like that we need supervisionwhen we're not yet fully qualified.
(09:08):
Whether that's being, we haven'tfinished the last step of the
exam or we're still in training.
we think about supervision inthose, stages where it's required.
Somebody needs to sign off on your notes.
But it's not a term we're usinga lot on an ongoing basis.
So in here in Canada, where I live too inAlberta we do need to engage in a process
of reflective practice, looking at Sort ofour core competencies, where there's room
(09:34):
for development, and then consider how wewould like to go about that development.
And so it could be seeking outsomeone, and I might think of a mentor.
would that be formal or informal?
Might it be getting together a groupof peers that we meet regularly?
Might it be reading a set ofarticles on a particular topic?
Might it be taking a course or readinga book or one of the listed options
(09:59):
to is teaching a course or writing?
Maybe I want to publish something andthat's going to be that next growth thing.
But the formal practice of supervision,I feel is something that we need to
lean into a little bit more here.
Can you explain in context yeah,could you define supervision?
Oh, that's a great one.
(10:19):
I wasn't expecting that question.
In the UK, we are expected from aregistration point of view, from
our Healthcare Professions Council,and from our professional body,
the Royal College of OT, that weengage in regular supervision.
Now, it's a little bit blurred lines onwhat regular means, and it definitely
alludes to the fact that can varydepending on the stage of your career.
(10:41):
But we don't, so it can be fortnightly,so say a new graduate, straight out
of university, fully qualified, butin a new role, totally, fish out
of water, no idea what's going on,but let's apply all that domain to
practice, and they go, oh yeah, how?
That will require a high level ofsupervision, and that supervision process
will definitely involve some teaching.
(11:02):
Some more formalized or informalteaching along as well as
developing the clinical reasoning.
There's a case management elementoften within organizations where they
are looking at ensuring that you aremeeting the standards of the service.
So yes, that can feel a bit likemonitoring, but also that you have
the skills to deliver what you need tofor the client that's in front of you.
(11:24):
So it's a bit of that accountability andsense of making sure the quality is there.
But supervision can bemuch more than that.
And really we're lookingat across the career span.
So from undergraduate right throughuntil preparing for retirement, we're
looking at the individual's both personalskills in terms of how you develop those
(11:45):
and those professional sorts of skills.
CPD learning, so your reflective practice.
How do you put all that learning, whetherit's from reading a book, listening
to a podcast doing a journal article,and really analyzing that in depth?
How do you take that and actuallyapply it to your practice?
We have to do all of our CPD.
It's different in every country.
(12:05):
I'm aware of that.
But we have to do all of that.
But supervision should be part of theprocess to help make sure you're applying
it to practice or it makes you change yourpractice because you've learned something
that perhaps is not best practice.
And how does that come backinto that clinical space?
So traditionally, there's a massive impacton the clinical development, what I'm
(12:29):
trying to do is to shed the light on that.
Actually, this should be a spaceto help you develop personally
as a clinician and as a person.
We all have a life outside of thisbeautiful world of OT but also
that it helps you think of thoseprofessional skills and what's next
in your career and what's the rightthing for that chapter for you?
(12:50):
Because there are times that, thatreally We may hit a burnout period,
and I know one of my frustrations andworries in the UK, and I'm not sure if
it's the same internationally, is we'relosing a lot of early career therapists,
because they're going through university,coming out, it's, the job's not quite
living up to their expectations, orthe demands that they're under are
(13:12):
massive, and lots of people are doingthat with varying levels of support.
So within, the first five years,we're losing a significant number.
And that's a worry for thefuture of the profession.
And I truly believe if we could applyour lens, our OT lens of looking at
the person in front of you, lookingat what they have to do in their
(13:33):
job, looking at the environmentsthey're doing in, the relationships
that they have, Within all of that.
And then what happens in life beyondthat, if we could apply that OT
process to the supervisor, I thinkit would be so much more effective.
We could really build thoseconnections and relationships within
teams, but with our clients, withour services and really go, this is
(13:58):
more than a kind of, audit process.
This is more than a have you done yournotes, have you seen all your clients,
have you done your hours of X, Y, and Z.This is a who are you, where are you at.
Yes, you need to do those other things,but let's develop you as a person so that
you can be the best clinician you can.
You can be the best team member you can,but you can do it in a way that feels
(14:19):
authentic, it feels aligned with yourvalues and it's not just hey, here we are,
this is what you've got to do, get on withit, I don't care if you're stressed out.
I'm not saying that'swhat people are doing.
But I think there are times in life whenwe may have all felt a bit like that,
where there's been a friction point.
so I've experienced my own burnout.
And I, on reflection, can recognizeit was a combination of factors.
(14:42):
It wasn't just the job,it was life and the job.
And the friction came in becauseat that point in my life, and
in my career, I wasn't aligned.
And It took me a long time torecognize that, too long in reality.
And I think if I had reached out forsupervision beyond, I was in the NHS
(15:05):
at the time, if I had reached outfor supervision beyond my service,
because there was a limit to what theycould provide me in that space, and I
fully appreciate the bounds of that.
But if I had known I could have reachedout beyond that and had a conversation
with someone to understand where I wasat better, I'm not sure I would have
been burnt out to the degree I was, Iwould have probably still left the job,
(15:29):
because of, I recognised that just lifeand work weren't in the same place at
that time, and that's fine, but I wouldhave had help to recognise it, and I think
the supervision process can do that, ifwe can do it well, because we all have
different stages of our career, and wecan't always stay in the same place, but
one of the things I've learned is, I needto listen to myself more, recognize what's
(15:53):
happening for me more, and understandit's okay that it's time to change.
That took me over 20 years ofmy career to get my head around.
I would like to help people figure thatout before they hit the burnout phase.
So that's a big partof my passion, I think.
You've articulated that really well.
So I'm hearing in there, there'sthere are elements of your own journey
(16:17):
and both needing to shift your owncareer in this stage of your life and
also reflecting on what you neededat an earlier stage in your career.
you'd like to make that more available.
Maybe pass on a few of the lessonsyou've learned along the way to others,
but recognizing there's like thisemerging trend of early exodus from the
career and that's tough because likewithin those first five years people
(16:40):
often haven't paid off their studentloans yet and it's feeling like a giant
investment that hasn't worked out.
And I think, again, that's thedifference internationally.
So in the UK, we, our studentloans are different to the loans
that, that you, that some of youexperience, and ours are less.
They're still significant,but they are less.
I think the way it works in theUK is that as long as they're
(17:01):
working and have a certain income,then that money gets paid back.
It gets taken as an extra tax.
You don't have to stay in OT to do that.
Yes, you want to be in a well enoughpaid job to be able to pay it back,
and OT can provide us with that.
But my worry is the bigger worry forthe profession if we're investing.
So if you think to become an OT, thereare other OTs who've invested in your
(17:23):
undergraduate career through placementsupervision, the, the teachers and
the researchers at the university.
But we want people to come out and do it.
And it, okay, it's not always going tomeet all of your expectations, but if
it doesn't, we want to understand why.
And we want to help you find a journeythat connects with you as a therapist.
(17:44):
And that might be, we're so diverse andwhat we could do as OTs, it might be
that someone's just not in the rightpopulation that they want to work with.
It might also be that people strugglein certain services, if it just
doesn't match how they like to work,how they learn, how they communicate.
And there's, I love that we're steppingfurther into the diverse kind of nature
(18:07):
of OT and beyond statutory services.
Now that's difficult asan early career therapist.
I think some are doing it, butthen particularly in the UK going,
ah, who do I get support from now?
Because they do feel isolated.
But also just Healthcare's changing,so we as OTs, I think, are perfectly
suited to be in some of those spaces,whether it's about prevention, whether
(18:31):
it's about support, whether it's justusing all your amazing OT skills,
but in a slightly different way.
We have clients who don't want tocome into a clinic, who don't want
to come into a hospital, but thatdoesn't mean they don't need to
access the skills that we have as OTs.
And I think In the UK, because supervisionis something we're expected to engage
in, we want to know we've got accessto supervisors when we step outside
(18:55):
of that statutory space as well.
And yes, peer supervision and peermentorship and support is brilliant,
but actually having that supervisoryrelationship where that person is
showing up purely for you, thatspace is yours to use it how you
need to use it in that moment.
You can't get that in peer supportbecause over time that doesn't
(19:19):
always feel balanced for theother people invested in that.
So I think there's something reallyimportant at recognizing when
we need something more bespoketo us, more person centered.
But in order to do that, you needpeople with supervision skills that
are confident and comfortable, that andI know there's lots of OT coaches out
(19:42):
there in the more international spacethat actually are doing a really similar
thing to what I'm doing in supervision.
And I think that's really importantthat whatever it is you access, That
if you recognize you need somethingdifferent and you need a space that
can be dedicated to your personaland professional development, that
you seek it out and you use it.
And I don't know if you, because your kindof setup's maybe a bit more informal, do
(20:06):
you feel people are doing that in Canada?
That they're seeking out somethingthat's more bespoke to them for
different stages of their career?
I think people are choosing continuingeducation in a way that they're trying
to curate their experience, but Idon't know that there's a lot of
people out there offering supervision.
(20:27):
So I do get approached.
I am approached from time totime for something like that,
but I have a container for that.
So my ACTivate Vitality program isall about Supporting OTs in their
personal and professional development,and I use the framework of acceptance
and commitment therapy to buildtheir psychological flexibility so
that they can make these intentionalchoices and put it in a community
(20:50):
so that we can support each other.
the niche has evolved to befor OT business owners for a
number of practical reasons.
It's not necessarily aboutbusiness, It's more about that.
The business owners are morelikely to invest in that sort
of support than the employees.
And maybe that just mightbe a cultural difference.
I don't think that'sa cultural difference.
I would even say that we have that.
(21:11):
I definitely see that in the UK.
So I'm an independent practice.
I did 20 years in the NHS.
For 10, last 10 years I've had myown independent practice and then
the OT supervision bit has comeinto this chapter of my career.
But the majority of OTs I supportare those working in independent
practice or diverse settings becausewithin the statutory services
(21:32):
you do get access to supervision.
It is an expectation that youwill be provided with that.
Now, saying that, I have some NHSOTs that come to me for supervision,
and part of that is because ofwhere they are in their careers.
Some, it's early in their career andthey just haven't got access to an
experienced paediatric OT that they cantalk to, so they've invested in their
(21:53):
own development by connecting with me.
Other people, it was a careercrossroad or a more senior position,
where they're like, okay, I'm atthe top of the tree now, so who do
I go to have those conversations?
Again, they've chosen to invest.
But the majority of peopleare OT business owners.
And the fact that I'm anindependent OT and therefore I'm
an OT business owner as well.
In fact, I loved the post you put uprecently with the question about, Do
(22:16):
you see yourself as an entrepreneurwhen you have your own business?
And I have to say, I had seenthat five years ago, I might have
gone, no, but I absolutely do now.
So my mindset around that has shifted.
And I think there's lots ofpeople out there, like I say,
working slightly differently.
(22:36):
If you have your own business, youare investing in all of that personal
and professional development.
If you're employed, certainly herein the UK, and it sounds like the
same for you, there's a little bitof an expectation that someone else
will pay for, maybe not all of it,but a good chunk of that for you.
Or that it'll be provided withinthe team or the service or that, the
employer will provide opportunitiesfor learning and development.
(22:59):
Absolutely.
It's interesting that you saycontinuing research and education is
a big part of what people are doing.
I think that happens here in the UKas well, but I don't see, and maybe
it's a cultural thing, that we seethat as separate from supervision.
We definitely see that aspart of our development.
But we would be discussing withinour supervision or mentorship
(23:22):
relationships about how that'sgoing to help me get to wherever it
is I want to go next in my career.
So there's this like ongoing conversationabout navigating that career path.
And really, for me, that's whatsupervision should be about.
It's a collaboration.
It's a conversation where you're Workingtogether, sometimes you, it's helpful
(23:42):
just to come and go, Oh, I need tosay X, Y, and Z. And other times it's
really helpful if someone can reflectthat back to you with a question
that maybe you hadn't thought about.
And it just gives them, thesupervisee, a chance to go, I need
to ponder on that a bit longer.
So I'm seeing how thisis all coming together.
I'm in, in Canada, we areregulated provincially.
So each province generally hasits own regulatory body, like
(24:06):
RCOT, but it's per province.
And Here, so I can speak more to ourprocess in Alberta, but I think there
is a fair bit of overlap betweenour different provinces, but very
different from what we've seen in the U.
S. And so here we do have this expectationof a reflective process and to then
choose our learning opportunities,which could be a choice to seek out
(24:27):
supervision or mentorship or trainingor all the things I listed before.
And then We need to write a reflection.
We don't have a certain number of hoursor, a list of courses or anything.
I love how organic it is.
But the piece that it sounds likewe're missing, which we could choose
to do is That sense of connectingwith another to hash that out.
(24:48):
Like it's off I think I'm due at theend of next month, I think it is.
And so it's going to be like Oh shoot,how do I document everything I've done and
make sure I have goals for that, right?
Like it's almost a retroactive,like I started out last year with
an intention to set some goals, butwho knows what was going to come.
of the year.
And so there's this, latitude forthat to evolve, which I appreciate,
(25:09):
but a lot of us aren't thinkingto go document along the way.
So we're often doing this Retroforward, like looking back
and forward at the same time.
But if it's a more intentional, regularlyoccurring process with another that, that
externalizes it, discussion, it's gettingout of my head and my limited experience
of the world and being able to then sharewith another who maybe has some different
(25:32):
experiences that we can compare notes.
And I really think that.
There's a beautiful enrichment.
And then contrast that to, here'sa list of approved CEU courses.
I have to have 10 of them.
And that's it.
That's a whole other thing that,that's not what we're doing
here, but I see it out there.
And it makes me sad because we'remissing these layers of self awareness
(25:53):
and self reflection and personalgrowth and expansion and and connection
and getting feedback that, thatis the thing that makes us grow.
Absolutely.
And I think within the UK, we'reexpected to do formal training, we're
expected to do informal training.
There's lots of different things thatwill be, we will be asked to show that
(26:14):
we participate in when we're at, whenwe have to do our, every two years we
might be audited in terms of our CPD.
Now, supervision is a big partof that, and it is an expectation
that we participate in supervision.
Like I say the frequencies, isthe blurry bit, but there is
an expectation that we do it.
And it is about that reflectivepractice opportunity.
(26:36):
And yes, I'm not saying youcan't reflect by just reflecting
on what you've participatedin and looking back over time.
I think that's brilliant andwe all need to be doing that.
Supervision, I think, takes ita step further because you're
sharing that with someone else.
It becomes a discussion.
It becomes Oh I might haveexperienced it in this way.
Or have you thought about thatfrom, say, the client's perspective
(26:58):
or a colleague's perspective?
Or have you thought about that?
How you felt then, let's review that.
Three months later, you comeback and go, So do you remember
how you felt about it then?
How do you feel about it now?
How have you learned andgrown from that experience?
So it's another level to that reflectivepractice process where someone is just
(27:23):
helping you look at it perhaps in a wayyou hadn't thought to, or challenging you
if you're being really hard on yourself.
So this is something I see in OTs alot, is we're quite hard on ourselves
as individuals, we think maybe we'renot doing enough, we're not working
fast enough, whatever it is, orwe're not really stepping into our
authentic self, we're holding back.
(27:44):
And as you well know, there are lotsof reasons why that might be the case.
But to have someone else point thatout and ask you, not challenge you,
but in a supportive environment, a safeenvironment where supervision must be
safe so that you can grow, so you canpush those kind of edges and grow.
To have somebody else ask you thatand challenge you when you're being
(28:08):
too hard on yourself, to be morecompassionate to just take a different
stance on that, to hear someone validate.
Your knowledge, your experience,your values back to you
can be
really empowering.
And I think that supervising relationshipis the crux of effective supervision.
(28:29):
If you can connect with someone, if youcan collaborate, you can feel safe enough
for them to challenge you without feelingthreatened, and that's really important.
It really enables you to grow.
And I have a beautiful supervisor,and she's an Irish OT, and Dr. Anya
O'Dea, and she is brilliant at doingthat for me and stopping me I'll
(28:50):
talk and talk, and she's just stop aminute, and let's just unpick that.
Yeah, and if she didn't make me dothat, I would just keep talking.
So it's really helpful to have someonemaybe see the things you don't see, and
to help you look at that from just adifferent lens, a different perspective.
So I think it enriches all of thebrilliant CPD and learning that
(29:13):
you're doing, just in a different way.
Yes.
And I do that in a group setting as well.
So you talked about your ACTivate course.
I do offer group supervision to OTs.
And obviously I try to make sure they'vegot common enough themes that they're
then going to be able to work together.
And that's beautiful to see that communitycome together and then support each other.
(29:35):
So yes, I'm facilitating it, but they'realso facilitating for each other as well.
And you.
And knowing you're not onyour own, there's something
very powerful in that as well.
Yes.
Yes.
I've had that so many times too, wherepeople show up to the group session and
have said, I wasn't sure why I came today,
I didn't have a specific thing, but Ineeded to hear that thing that you just
(29:57):
said and, I can so relate and that theyreflect back and so much beautiful healing
that happens from so often it's our ownperception of, Judgment or that we've
really messed that up and we're so goodat empathetically seeing others potential.
And when you have a peer who can see, Ohno, like I, this is how I see it for you.
(30:17):
And now I see my situation differentlytoo, because I can see it in you.
But not myself, but that thecollective is so much more
powerful than I could provide.
Yeah, absolutely.
And one of the things that I do two thingsI do at the end of my groups every time
is I ask my OTs to, for themselves atthe end of the discussion, to come up
(30:37):
with one thing that they've taken awayfrom the hour that we've spent together.
So it might be something they thenwant to, they've heard someone else
do and they want to take it awayand change in their own practice.
But also one wellbeing action.
So I think, again, because we're notalways good at being compassionate, we're
very good at putting other people firstand saying yes to things, when maybe
(30:57):
we should be saying no that we don'talways make enough space for ourselves.
And we all carry multiple roles.
Lots of people are parents,they're carers, they're volunteers.
There's lots of other things that theydo, but carving out a little bit of time
and making that commitment at the end ofthe group to do just one wellbeing action.
I'm not asking them to do it every dayfor the whole month and saying, tell
(31:20):
me one thing you're going to do foryourself before we meet again next month.
And I find that it's been reallyempowering as well, because I've had one,
one OT who said, I went on holiday for thefirst time on my own in years and left,
and it was only a few days, but she tookthat time, created that space for herself.
And she said, if you hadn't we hadn'tbeen having these kinds of conversations.
(31:43):
We wouldn't have thought to do it atthis point, so it's really important
that support is not just professional,that it is looking at the whole person
because we bring our whole self throughour therapeutic use of self, so we
have to be tapping into what's goingon for us in that process so that we
can be fully present for our colleaguesand our clients and our services.
(32:04):
Yes, so you are doing supervisionand you're teaching supervision.
Yes,
I'm doing Meta supervision.
Yeah I think when I decided that I wantedto, In this chapter of my career, I wanted
to really take a deep dive and look atsupervision, not just reflect on my own
(32:25):
experiences and learning, but what I couldprovide for other people going forward.
So I started to look for trainingbecause the training I'd had, had been
within my, the NHS while I worked there.
But to be honest, it was like acouple of hours here and there.
Probably less than 10 hours over20 years, if I'm perfectly honest.
You learn on the job.
(32:45):
There's lots of that.
But then you have good supervision,then you have not so good supervision,
because of what you've experiencedand all the other crazy things
that go on in busy services.
So I thought, I don't want tojust do what I've always done.
So I started looking at what trainingwas available for supervisors.
And actually, within the UK,I find it really difficult to
(33:05):
find some bespoke OT training.
So I ended up doing a postgradcertificate at the University of
Derby in Clinical Supervision, andit was a multi professional course.
And actually, that was beautiful,because it really enriched
my thoughts on supervision.
Based in psychology, But very muchabout applying it to your own practice.
And it was through that I realized notonly do I want to empower myself to be
(33:29):
a better supervisor, I'd really liketo empower other people to upscale
on their supervision skills, to seethat as a valuable space to spend
time and learn in their own CPD time.
Because if you're supporting other OTsor other OT students, whatever, I'm
just In the UK, our OT assistants are,I hate this term, but unqualified staff.
(33:52):
I don't like that as a term,but they're not registered OTs.
They're amazing support staff and alot of them are very highly skilled,
so OTs are supervising them as well.
There's a huge range of people youmight supervise in your career.
We actually need to invest sometime in upskilling ourselves
to do that effectively.
(34:12):
So I decided that alongsidedoing supervision for people that
I wanted to develop training.
Now, it's still in the development phase,it's coming soon, I'm hoping spring,
I will have it ready, and it's goingto be online, it's going to be a self
paced training, but with a difference.
I'm also going to offer group support,so that people can take that theory and
(34:36):
come into the group and go, okay, that'sall great and theory, Lynsey, but When
I've done this is the response I've got.
How can I look at that differently?
So essentially a bit of supervision forsupervisors, but more that mentorship,
more of that apply theory into practice,but around that supervision space.
And I'm sure everybody listening canthink of an employer or an OT that we
(34:59):
had in a practicum that really couldhave used this training that really
might have hurt our confidence withpoorly developed, delivered feedback
or just unrealistic expectations or notco collaborating and just criticizing.
Like I'm sure we've all hadthose experiences and I too
would like to learn more.
I've not take, I've been an OT.
(35:20):
20 some years, 22, I think.
And I have not taken a student all alongbecause I worked part time for so long.
And then in the last five years,I've worked in such an unusual
way that it just, I thought,how could I even have a student?
I'm doing so many weird things.
And I've had two students now in thelast year and it's been very exciting,
but I'm thinking, gosh, I could use someI could learn a little bit about this.
(35:43):
I've had lovely students andthey've, I've been very open
about, hey, I'm learning too.
And, please share feedback andwe can figure this out together.
But yeah, I feel a bit underprepared.
And I think lots of people justcan't get access to training.
I think that's just the reality.
So if you work in a statutory service oran organization, you might get a couple of
hours, but that's it from my experience.
(36:05):
And when I've asked on myFacebook group, that's been the
feedback that I've had as well.
And I just think it's something weneed to pay more attention to because,
yeah, we've all been on the receivingend of feedback that's perhaps not been
delivered as well as it could have been.
But as a supervisor, I also seethat people are put into supervisory
positions when they're not ready.
(36:26):
But they don't necessarily have a choice,or they don't really have anybody to go
to, to go, Can you help me do this better?
I'm struggling.
So I just want to make thatmore accessible for people.
And that's partly why I wantedthe group element to it, to be
able to say, I'm here, I'll do mybest to problem solve it with you.
I'm not there to tell you what to dobecause I'm not in your situation.
(36:47):
And that's not who I am asa person or a therapist.
But I'm there to help you workthrough it and maybe look at it from a
different perspective and to go back.
So I'm very much about, I want youto go back with something to try.
So how can we look at that?
What could the next step be?
Do you feel comfortable doingthat and giving it a go?
(37:07):
It will very much have that focus becausejust because I've tried something and it
works doesn't mean it'll work for you.
It depends on who you're with, theenvironment that you're in and we need to
make sure that we're personalizing things.
But there are strategies we canaccess in order to do that and
actually they're not a millionmiles away from our core OT skills.
So actually we should bebrilliant supervisors.
(37:30):
What we don't do, in my opinion,is apply that OT process and that
OT lens in our supervision process.
We're brilliant at doing it for ourclients, but we're not so good at
doing it for our colleagues, andI would love to see that change.
Increasing the opportunity for peopleto have training in supervision skills
is a massive passion for me thatbuilds into my bigger mission of just
(37:53):
making supervision more positive, moresupportive, more accessible to everyone
that's working within the OT profession.
And it's something that I'm talking tothe Royal College of OT about here in
the UK, because our kind of positionstatement on supervision is a little bit
old, it's 10 years now, and I'm havingconversations and I'd like to be part
(38:14):
of the process to refresh that document.
And I have other amazing OT supervisorsin the UK that will are keen to
come on board on that journey.
So I keep talking to the college andhopefully at some point when it is It's
politically the right time for them.
We will get that out there for people.
But yeah, part of my mission, I I feellike there's this poor, beautiful, lovely
(38:35):
OT in the Royal College that I speakto, and every time she gets a message
or an email from me, she must think, ohno, it's Lynsey again, because I keep
banging the drum on the same thing.
When are we doing it?
Are we ready?
Is it time?
Oh yeah, wait a little bit longer.
I can relate to that.
I feel like there's a, regulatoryprocesses take time to evolve.
And we're seeing out in the world,we're seeing evolution happen in real
(39:00):
time in response to environmentalchanges and situational changes and
political changes and funding changesand that we have to keep adapting.
And regulations Don't adaptas quickly by nature, right?
And I feel like I was also e mailingback and forth with our registrar here
in Alberta several years ago as I wasevolving my services and I just wanted
(39:21):
to be sure that I wasn't breaking anyrules but there actually weren't rules
and where were we going to find thatline and I just kept signing my emails.
What's a trailblazer to do?
So I think that's reallyinteresting and I think that's
common across different countries.
So I certainly know lots of OTs that areworking independently or diverse settings.
And when we hit a kind of,Oh, are we okay to do that?
(39:44):
Or maybe something comes up andthere's a question and we think,
Oh, we better just double check.
Sometimes unfortunately the RoyalCollege just doesn't have the answer.
And it's not because they don't wantto, but it's just because, Sometimes
what people are doing is so nichethat these things will evolve in time,
but it is that it's like research.
What comes first, theresearch idea or the practice?
(40:05):
So we've got that chickenand egg thing, right?
Sometimes it's just a research ideathat someone does and it's amazing.
Other times it's practice.
It's been going on for a longtime that someone goes, okay,
let's put some evidence to that.
And I think regulation works alittle bit like that as well.
But, and it's a slower process becauseit's generally part of a bigger
(40:26):
organization, whereas I just letme hear on my own, do my own thing.
And if I decide I want to trythat, then I just don't try it.
I totally understand why it'sdifferent in different pieces,
but I'll keep knocking on the doorand we'll get there eventually.
And that's my sense too,
if I can demonstrate that I'm questioningboundaries from a responsible and and
(40:51):
aligning values with the better of theprofession, as long as I can keep showing
that, I if I misstep or misinterpretor interpret differently, I feel like
if I've communicated and communicatedfrom a place of caring deeply about the
profession and wanting to improve it,I'm hopeful there'll be some wiggle room.
Yeah, and I think we have probablyone of the most diverse professions
(41:14):
in healthcare and therefore there'sgot to be wiggle room in that.
We've got to have pioneerswho are willing to go.
I'm just going to try this a littlebit differently and see how that lands.
Because if we take Occupation andActivity Analysis as our footprint,
We've got a really wide path that wecan travel, so it's how do we do that,
(41:35):
and I, like you, completely agree weneed to be respectful, we need to be
held accountable for what we do, butwe want to promote OT in its widest
sense, and it's okay to step outsideof the pathway that's already trodden.
It's just how do we do that and whodo we have by our side helping us
through that journey, so you don't feelcompletely isolated and on your own.
(41:59):
And I think that's really important.
Oh, so much and I know for me, it'snot about the what, it's the where.
And because I'm reaching people acrossboundaries it's the if I'm outside
of If the people I'm helping aren'twhere I'm registered, that's where
the boundaries are being pushed.
(42:19):
And then, is it not OT?
Yeah, then it can't be OT, but itis OT, but it's not OT, or isn't it?
And where's, yeah, that's,But I'm navigating, right?
It's, there's a, an internationalconnectedness that I deeply value and
being able to have conversations likethis with you there or Bronwyn in the UK
(42:40):
or Anya in Ireland, or, people in SouthAfrica, it's, I, I so appreciate all of
the places that I get to connect and Ithink we are richer for understanding
how OT is practiced in other countries.
And I think this conversation willreally help others who go, Oh, wow,
that sounds like a very meaningfulway of continuing education.
That's different from where I do it.
(43:00):
Maybe I'd like to introducesomething like that.
And I'm I think these internationalconversations are important.
I think they're really important,and I do recognize the challenges
of working across those boundaries.
For the reason that I can only supervise,because supervision is a very specific
term, I can only supervise other OTsthat are HCPC registered, like myself.
(43:23):
I cannot supervise internationally, butI can teach internationally, and I can
share, and I can talk internationally.
For me My wider mission of promotingsupervision, if you call it something else
in another country, I don't really care.
It's about that connection, thatcollaboration, that growth, that
trusted space to come together.
(43:46):
Call it something else.
There'll be someone else who'samazingly skilled who can
help you do that in your area.
I personally am not reaching beyondthat at this stage on a supervision
process, but certainly in a training, Ithink my supervision skills training, I
think I'm calling it something around,so it's a bit of a working title, kind
of Supervision skills, what's in yourtoolbox and taking it from basics to
(44:10):
brilliance because there's so much we cando in that space and you don't have to
call it supervision if you're in anothercountry, call it what connects with you.
But it's about that upscaling.
How do you work with other OTs?
How do you help them grow?
How do you create a space for themand hold that space for them to
work through some of their journey.
(44:32):
And I think that's really powerful.
So that, I want to teach that,I want to talk about that.
I talk on social media all the timeand I really, in this last year,
really stepped into that supervisionspace on social media and thought I'm
just going to keep talking about it.
And I'm going to seewhat response I get back.
And I'm really loving the collaborationsinternationally as well as in the UK
(44:53):
that I'm having, and those conversations.
Because you're right, as a profession,there's so much we can connect with.
There's so much we can learn fromeach other in different countries,
different states on how people do things.
But we all come under that onehat of occupational therapy,
so let's learn from each other.
It's really important.
It's great.
Are you ready for my last questions?
(45:15):
Yeah.
What does being brave mean to you?
So I think this is a great question.
And because I've listened to your podcast,I've loved the variety of answers.
I think for me, it really is aboutstepping outside of your comfort zone.
So being brave enough to connect withwhat you're thinking and feeling.
And really to understand that it's okayto be slightly different from other people
(45:38):
or to be very different from other people.
There is so much scope withinoccupational therapy to step into.
So really stepping outside ofthose kind of comfort zones.
And I know for me at times, it'staken me a long time to do it.
And other times it hasn't, I'vejust gone, yeah, I'm going.
But within that, the other thing forme is recognizing how that feels.
(45:59):
And recognizing whether that voice ofdoubt that comes in, so again, we could
talk for hours about what that voice ofdoubt is, but recognizing when that's
something genuine, or whether it'sactually telling you this isn't right now.
Or this is something you've agreed to, butnow your values have shifted, it doesn't
align any longer and take some action tostep out of something you're already in.
(46:23):
So it's not always aboutstepping in, sometimes it's
recognizing when to step out.
And I think stepping out ofsomething you've committed to
takes a lot of bravery to do.
Yes, absolutely it does.
It's often easier to take no action.
And very brave to take action,which could be a big change.
(46:44):
And can be really uncomfortablewhen you've already committed into
something to then go I don't know why.
It's time to take someaction and make a change.
So BRAVE is about trusting myself
What is something BRAVEyou've done recently?
Oh, another great one.
So I, for me personally, this lastyear within my business has been
(47:08):
massive in terms of that's two years.
So really investing inthat supervision process.
upskilling my own skills, but stepping outinto the online space and going, I'm here,
and I'm just going to keep talking aboutthis, and I'm really passionate about
it, and I really want people to connectand engage with me in that conversation.
That was massive, and I did havesupport and help to do that, which
(47:32):
was great, because I think, we allneed to be able to tap into that.
But also, it was about Havingthe confidence in myself to
start reducing my clinical work.
So I was five days a week on a clinicalcaseload to trust and be brave enough to
know that this was the right space for meto be in that I could start reducing my
(47:54):
clinical work to give myself the space toreally step into the OT supervision space.
And I'm glad it's as fulfillingas I hoped it would be.
But importantly, from a businesspoint of view, I'm glad I trusted
myself to do it because it alsohad to make financial sense.
It had to be viable as a business.
So that was really brave.
(48:16):
And my kids and my husband watchedme do that and really push myself
really into an uncomfortable placein the beginning of that journey.
But I'm so glad I did.
And my kids are older teens, early 20s.
And my son did say to me, Wow, mom, itwas really amazing to watch you do that.
(48:37):
Because I know how much hard work thattook to do it and how much kind of
stepping into the unknown and that kind ofbravery to just take that leap and do it.
And it inspired him to reallyfollow up on what he wanted to do.
And that was the most beautiful feedbackreally for me to get that from my son.
(48:58):
I can really relate to that too.
I have a son who's veryinterested in entrepreneurship.
and business and he started a smallbusiness selling hockey cards online.
And he took a, he's in high school.
He took an elective course forentrepreneurship, got a hundred
percent and just really has this greatquestions and curiosity and interest.
(49:18):
And I love to see them growingand shaping in their own way
and taking what we put out and
seeing possibility, right?
And in a sense, it gives permissionto not just follow the same path
that everyone else is following.
And I think for young people,that's really hard to do, to be
the one that goes, No, I'm notgoing to go to university or
no, I'm not going to do this.
(49:40):
And I really always want, have alwaysparented in a way that I've said to my
children, you have to be happy first.
Whatever choice you make, it's got tobe one that's going to make you happy.
There's no point in earning millionsof pounds in a job that you hate.
Do something you enjoy.
So it's giving them permission to stepinto that space and to know they can do
it in a different way from other people.
(50:03):
Wonderful.
How can people reach out to you?
What would you like them, whatwould you like people to do
after they've listened to this?
So come and follow me on social.
So I am Lynsey McFarland Shawacross all my social media.
So I spend most of my time in LinkedIn andInstagram, but I am on Facebook as well.
And I have, I'm Lynsey McFarland Shaw onFacebook, but I have a Facebook group.
(50:26):
So anyone who's interested, particularlyin supervision and mentorship.
My Facebook group is OTSupervision and Mentorship.
So come along and joinme there in that space.
And then obviously there'straining coming in the spring.
So what I'm going to do is make sure thatwe have a PDF linked in the show notes.
There will be a little bit aboutsupervision skills that you should
have in your toolbox and that,if you're interested in that,
(50:48):
then come along and find out moreabout the training that we'll be
launching later in the spring time.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate youbeing here and having this
enlightening conversation with me.
Oh, it's been fantastic.
I'm so grateful to have joined you in thisspace and to get to come and talk to your
wonderful listeners about supervision.
(51:10):
And hopefully it's maybe just madepeople think about something from a
way they haven't looked at it before,particularly because you've got such
a beautiful international audience.
But I'm really grateful to you for makingthe space for me to come and join you.
It's been a lovely chat.
I agree.
what a rich conversation about supervisionand professional development in OT.
(51:31):
I particularly appreciated Lynsey'sperspective on how supervision can help
prevent burnout and support OTs throughvarious career stages and transitions.
Whether you call it supervision,mentorship, or professional development,
having intentional conversations about ourgrowth as practitioners is so valuable.
Thank you for joining usin this discussion, Lynsey.
(51:51):
And If you'd like to connect withLynsey, you can find her on social media.
I'll put the links in the show notesand be sure to join her Facebook
group, OT Supervision and Mentorship.
She even has a free gift for youthat's linked in the show notes.
Now, if you've been listening fora while, you know that I'm really
passionate about supporting OTsthrough the ACTivate Vitality program.
(52:12):
And I'm excited to announce thatI am preparing to have 10 more
OTs join our community in March.
So if this is something that interestsyou, if you're looking for community
connection, collaboration, coaching,A place that can feel safe and create
a foundation for you to grow as an OTbusiness owner, I'd love to talk to you.
(52:34):
I'll put the details about how to doso in the show notes, and I can't wait
to see who joins me in this next cohortof the ACTivate Vitality program.
Thanks for listening, andas always, be brave, OTs!
I've experienced my own burnout.
(00:01):
And I, on reflection, can recognizeit was a combination of factors.
It wasn't just the job,it was life and the job.
And the friction came in becauseat that point in my life, and
in my career, I wasn't aligned.
And It took me a long time torecognize that, too long in reality.
(00:24):
And I think if I had reached out forsupervision beyond, I was in the NHS
at the time, if I had reached outfor supervision beyond my service,
because there was a limit to what theycould provide me in that space, and I
fully appreciate the bounds of that.
But if I had known I could have reachedout beyond that and had a conversation
with someone to understand where I wasat better, I'm not sure I would have
(00:47):
been burnt out to the degree I was,
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
(01:08):
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
(01:30):
Today's podcast conversationexplores supervision in occupational
therapy with Lynsey McFarland Shaw.
Lynsey brings 30 years of pediatric OTexperience and has evolved her career
to focus on supervision and mentorship.
We discuss the differences betweensupervision practices internationally,
particularly contrasting the UK'sformal supervision requirements with
(01:52):
what we are doing in North Americathat's a little bit different.
if you've ever wondered aboutways to enhance your professional
development or support others intheirs, this conversation will
give you plenty to think about.
before we get into today's episode, I wantto take a quick moment to talk about JANE,
a clinic management software and EMR.
as an occupational therapist,your main priority should
be caring for your clients.
(02:12):
Not worrying about rising EMR costs.
That's why Jane has come up with the newBalance Plan, which includes essential
features you need to run your clinicwithout any of the extra stuff you don't.
With the Balance Plan, really helpfulfeatures like one on one telehealth,
email appointment reminders,and unlimited customer support.
It's a great fit for new or growingpractitioners who are booking
(02:34):
up to 20 appointments per month.
And the best part is thatJane pays for itself with the
cost of just one appointment.
so head over to jane.
app.
pricing to check out their plansStarting at 39 a month in the
US and 54 a month in Canada.
And if you're ready to get started,don't forget to use the code
VITALITY at signup for a one monthgrace period on your new account.
(02:56):
Hi, Lynsey.
Thank you very much for being here today.
Oh, it's a pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so grateful to be on your podcast.
I've listened to you loads, so it'slovely to be here and having a chat.
Oh, thank you.
I never know who's listening,but you are good to comment on
things when I post about them.
But it is a weird thing to be puttingsomething out into the world that
(03:16):
people sometimes quietly enjoy, andyou just never know that was the case.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's the beauty ofa podcast, though, isn't it?
We can enjoy it in somany different spaces.
And and often I listen in thecar, so I'm not near anywhere
to then go back and comment.
So it might just be something that comeslater in the kind of flow of someone's
(03:37):
social media presence that takes me backto go, Oh, yeah, I listened to that.
And it was amazing.
I think so many OTs listen in the car.
We all, many of us have that mobileaspect to the way we're working.
And it's nice to have a littlecompanion to take on those
drives through the countryside.
Absolutely.
I'm
in London, so I don't getthe countryside beauty.
But but yeah I do love that space to just.
(04:00):
Use that time to be inspiredto, I love listening, like I was
saying to you before we started,listening in to other conversations.
I have real professional curiosity, soI love to hear what other people are
doing and just different ways of beingable to be an OT and to celebrate that.
So yeah, podcasts areperfect for me in that sense.
I have real professional curiosity.
(04:21):
I love that term.
That, and that, I think that reallylends well to your area of passion
because that sense of professionalcuriosity is the thing we're
trying to inspire others toward.
So many OTs get caught up in well Idon't know everything about everything
and that can really undermine ourconfidence and essentially really it's
(04:42):
our curiosity and understanding theway we see the world as being a unique
one professionally and going in withcuriosity is where we have a lot of magic.
I actually worry when people feel theydo know everything because I think OT is
such a kind of multifaceted profession.
We're so diverse, we can work inso many different spaces that.
(05:04):
If you go, yeah, I've got this.
I know this, that worries me,because no one ever knows.
I've been in OT for, it'llbe 30 years this summer.
And I'm still learning all the time.
And I love that.
And I love seeing it done differently.
And I love someone challenging myperspective on something because it
really gives me a moment to pauseand go, okay, am I just thinking
(05:25):
that because I've always thought it?
Or am I right for thesituation I'm in right now?
that's really good.
Tell us what you do.
Okay.
So I'm Lynsey.
I am an OT supervisor.
So like I just said, I'vebeen an OT for 30 years.
I have been really lucky to work withchildren, young people and families
for all of that time bar my initialpostgraduate kind of Basic training as
(05:50):
we had it back then, in terms of joininga rotation and doing a bit of physical
health, mental health and I chose thatrotation because it had paediatrics on it.
When I got experienced enoughto get the paediatric placement,
unfortunately, it was removed from therotation, much to my disappointment.
But that led me into learningdisabilities, which was really fascinating
(06:12):
because it was children and adults.
And then I've been withchildren ever since.
So I love working with families.
I love working with young people.
it really makes OT becauseno day is the same.
And that's part of why I love what we do.
But as I've come to a newchapter of my career, 30 years
in, I suffered a back injury.
(06:33):
I just was thinking peds OT,how long can I be on the floor?
I decided to look at my otherpassions really within the profession.
And one of the things I've alwaystalked about and always either had
good or maybe not always so goodthings to say about is OT supervision.
And that's really where I'm at.
place myself now.
This is the next chapter of my career andI really want to dedicate that time to,
(06:57):
to really empowering other people to usesupervision effectively, to get trained
in supervision so they're effectivesupervisors, and as a profession, to value
the space that it provides us because Itoften, I don't know what it's like for
yourself and Canada and other parts ofthe world, but in the UK, particularly in
(07:18):
busy services, not just statutory, it canhappen in independent clinics as well.
When time's pressured, it can besomething that gets dropped to the
side and it can become a littlebit of a tick bock exercise.
And I don't like that.
I don't think that's effective.
And I don't think it values,our profession, but I also don't
think it values the person.
(07:39):
So the therapist who's there trying todevelop, trying to expand their personal
and professional skills or clinicalreasoning, that professional curiosity.
I think if we do supervision well,we can do all of those things.
When we let it get squeezed out, Ithink we're undervaluing everything, the
profession, the service and the person.
(08:01):
So I have a real passion aboutraising the profile supervision
to be something positive.
But to be delivered by skilledand trained therapists.
This should be as much a part ofour CPD as anything else that we do.
And I don't quite feelwhere they're there.
Certainly not in the UK.
I don't know what it's like elsewhere.
I'd love to know your experience,Carlyn, of what supervision across
(08:23):
your career span has looked like.
Honestly, it's not a term weuse as much in North America.
And so I think we are doing it.
My experience in Canada is that there,we're engaging in informal ways of
connecting and learning and maybe seekingout mentorship or looking to a person
(08:46):
on the staff where we work who might bea little bit more senior or who might
teach us some things but to have aformalized sort of supervision process.
I don't hear about it much here in Canada.
And in fact, in the sometimes I can hear.
elements of if you need to be supervised,then you're not an independent
clinician, like that we need supervisionwhen we're not yet fully qualified.
(09:08):
Whether that's being, we haven'tfinished the last step of the
exam or we're still in training.
we think about supervision inthose, stages where it's required.
Somebody needs to sign off on your notes.
But it's not a term we're usinga lot on an ongoing basis.
So in here in Canada, where I live too inAlberta we do need to engage in a process
of reflective practice, looking at Sort ofour core competencies, where there's room
(09:34):
for development, and then consider how wewould like to go about that development.
And so it could be seeking outsomeone, and I might think of a mentor.
would that be formal or informal?
Might it be getting together a groupof peers that we meet regularly?
Might it be reading a set ofarticles on a particular topic?
Might it be taking a course or readinga book or one of the listed options
(09:59):
to is teaching a course or writing?
Maybe I want to publish something andthat's going to be that next growth thing.
But the formal practice of supervision,I feel is something that we need to
lean into a little bit more here.
Can you explain in context yeah,could you define supervision?
Oh, that's a great one.
(10:19):
I wasn't expecting that question.
In the UK, we are expected from aregistration point of view, from
our Healthcare Professions Council,and from our professional body,
the Royal College of OT, that weengage in regular supervision.
Now, it's a little bit blurred lines onwhat regular means, and it definitely
alludes to the fact that can varydepending on the stage of your career.
(10:41):
But we don't, so it can be fortnightly,so say a new graduate, straight out
of university, fully qualified, butin a new role, totally, fish out
of water, no idea what's going on,but let's apply all that domain to
practice, and they go, oh yeah, how?
That will require a high level ofsupervision, and that supervision process
will definitely involve some teaching.
(11:02):
Some more formalized or informalteaching along as well as
developing the clinical reasoning.
There's a case management elementoften within organizations where they
are looking at ensuring that you aremeeting the standards of the service.
So yes, that can feel a bit likemonitoring, but also that you have
the skills to deliver what you need tofor the client that's in front of you.
(11:24):
So it's a bit of that accountability andsense of making sure the quality is there.
But supervision can bemuch more than that.
And really we're lookingat across the career span.
So from undergraduate right throughuntil preparing for retirement, we're
looking at the individual's both personalskills in terms of how you develop those
(11:45):
and those professional sorts of skills.
CPD learning, so your reflective practice.
How do you put all that learning, whetherit's from reading a book, listening
to a podcast doing a journal article,and really analyzing that in depth?
How do you take that and actuallyapply it to your practice?
We have to do all of our CPD.
It's different in every country.
(12:05):
I'm aware of that.
But we have to do all of that.
But supervision should be part of theprocess to help make sure you're applying
it to practice or it makes you change yourpractice because you've learned something
that perhaps is not best practice.
And how does that come backinto that clinical space?
So traditionally, there's a massive impacton the clinical development, what I'm
(12:29):
trying to do is to shed the light on that.
Actually, this should be a spaceto help you develop personally
as a clinician and as a person.
We all have a life outside of thisbeautiful world of OT but also
that it helps you think of thoseprofessional skills and what's next
in your career and what's the rightthing for that chapter for you?
(12:50):
Because there are times that, thatreally We may hit a burnout period,
and I know one of my frustrations andworries in the UK, and I'm not sure if
it's the same internationally, is we'relosing a lot of early career therapists,
because they're going through university,coming out, it's, the job's not quite
living up to their expectations, orthe demands that they're under are
(13:12):
massive, and lots of people are doingthat with varying levels of support.
So within, the first five years,we're losing a significant number.
And that's a worry for thefuture of the profession.
And I truly believe if we could applyour lens, our OT lens of looking at
the person in front of you, lookingat what they have to do in their
(13:33):
job, looking at the environmentsthey're doing in, the relationships
that they have, Within all of that.
And then what happens in life beyondthat, if we could apply that OT
process to the supervisor, I thinkit would be so much more effective.
We could really build thoseconnections and relationships within
teams, but with our clients, withour services and really go, this is
(13:58):
more than a kind of, audit process.
This is more than a have you done yournotes, have you seen all your clients,
have you done your hours of X, Y, and Z.This is a who are you, where are you at.
Yes, you need to do those other things,but let's develop you as a person so that
you can be the best clinician you can.
You can be the best team member you can,but you can do it in a way that feels
(14:19):
authentic, it feels aligned with yourvalues and it's not just hey, here we are,
this is what you've got to do, get on withit, I don't care if you're stressed out.
I'm not saying that'swhat people are doing.
But I think there are times in life whenwe may have all felt a bit like that,
where there's been a friction point.
so I've experienced my own burnout.
And I, on reflection, can recognizeit was a combination of factors.
(14:42):
It wasn't just the job,it was life and the job.
And the friction came in becauseat that point in my life, and
in my career, I wasn't aligned.
And It took me a long time torecognize that, too long in reality.
And I think if I had reached out forsupervision beyond, I was in the NHS
(15:05):
at the time, if I had reached outfor supervision beyond my service,
because there was a limit to what theycould provide me in that space, and I
fully appreciate the bounds of that.
But if I had known I could have reachedout beyond that and had a conversation
with someone to understand where I wasat better, I'm not sure I would have
been burnt out to the degree I was, Iwould have probably still left the job,
(15:29):
because of, I recognised that just lifeand work weren't in the same place at
that time, and that's fine, but I wouldhave had help to recognise it, and I think
the supervision process can do that, ifwe can do it well, because we all have
different stages of our career, and wecan't always stay in the same place, but
one of the things I've learned is, I needto listen to myself more, recognize what's
(15:53):
happening for me more, and understandit's okay that it's time to change.
That took me over 20 years ofmy career to get my head around.
I would like to help people figure thatout before they hit the burnout phase.
So that's a big partof my passion, I think.
You've articulated that really well.
So I'm hearing in there, there'sthere are elements of your own journey
(16:17):
and both needing to shift your owncareer in this stage of your life and
also reflecting on what you neededat an earlier stage in your career.
you'd like to make that more available.
Maybe pass on a few of the lessonsyou've learned along the way to others,
but recognizing there's like thisemerging trend of early exodus from the
career and that's tough because likewithin those first five years people
(16:40):
often haven't paid off their studentloans yet and it's feeling like a giant
investment that hasn't worked out.
And I think, again, that's thedifference internationally.
So in the UK, we, our studentloans are different to the loans
that, that you, that some of youexperience, and ours are less.
They're still significant,but they are less.
I think the way it works in theUK is that as long as they're
(17:01):
working and have a certain income,then that money gets paid back.
It gets taken as an extra tax.
You don't have to stay in OT to do that.
Yes, you want to be in a well enoughpaid job to be able to pay it back,
and OT can provide us with that.
But my worry is the bigger worry forthe profession if we're investing.
So if you think to become an OT, thereare other OTs who've invested in your
(17:23):
undergraduate career through placementsupervision, the, the teachers and
the researchers at the university.
But we want people to come out and do it.
And it, okay, it's not always going tomeet all of your expectations, but if
it doesn't, we want to understand why.
And we want to help you find a journeythat connects with you as a therapist.
(17:44):
And that might be, we're so diverse andwhat we could do as OTs, it might be
that someone's just not in the rightpopulation that they want to work with.
It might also be that people strugglein certain services, if it just
doesn't match how they like to work,how they learn, how they communicate.
And there's, I love that we're steppingfurther into the diverse kind of nature
(18:07):
of OT and beyond statutory services.
Now that's difficult asan early career therapist.
I think some are doing it, butthen particularly in the UK going,
ah, who do I get support from now?
Because they do feel isolated.
But also just Healthcare's changing,so we as OTs, I think, are perfectly
suited to be in some of those spaces,whether it's about prevention, whether
(18:31):
it's about support, whether it's justusing all your amazing OT skills,
but in a slightly different way.
We have clients who don't want tocome into a clinic, who don't want
to come into a hospital, but thatdoesn't mean they don't need to
access the skills that we have as OTs.
And I think In the UK, because supervisionis something we're expected to engage
in, we want to know we've got accessto supervisors when we step outside
(18:55):
of that statutory space as well.
And yes, peer supervision and peermentorship and support is brilliant,
but actually having that supervisoryrelationship where that person is
showing up purely for you, thatspace is yours to use it how you
need to use it in that moment.
You can't get that in peer supportbecause over time that doesn't
(19:19):
always feel balanced for theother people invested in that.
So I think there's something reallyimportant at recognizing when
we need something more bespoketo us, more person centered.
But in order to do that, you needpeople with supervision skills that
are confident and comfortable, that andI know there's lots of OT coaches out
(19:42):
there in the more international spacethat actually are doing a really similar
thing to what I'm doing in supervision.
And I think that's really importantthat whatever it is you access, That
if you recognize you need somethingdifferent and you need a space that
can be dedicated to your personaland professional development, that
you seek it out and you use it.
And I don't know if you, because your kindof setup's maybe a bit more informal, do
(20:06):
you feel people are doing that in Canada?
That they're seeking out somethingthat's more bespoke to them for
different stages of their career?
I think people are choosing continuingeducation in a way that they're trying
to curate their experience, but Idon't know that there's a lot of
people out there offering supervision.
(20:27):
So I do get approached.
I am approached from time totime for something like that,
but I have a container for that.
So my ACTivate Vitality program isall about Supporting OTs in their
personal and professional development,and I use the framework of acceptance
and commitment therapy to buildtheir psychological flexibility so
that they can make these intentionalchoices and put it in a community
(20:50):
so that we can support each other.
the niche has evolved to befor OT business owners for a
number of practical reasons.
It's not necessarily aboutbusiness, It's more about that.
The business owners are morelikely to invest in that sort
of support than the employees.
And maybe that just mightbe a cultural difference.
I don't think that'sa cultural difference.
I would even say that we have that.
(21:11):
I definitely see that in the UK.
So I'm an independent practice.
I did 20 years in the NHS.
For 10, last 10 years I've had myown independent practice and then
the OT supervision bit has comeinto this chapter of my career.
But the majority of OTs I supportare those working in independent
practice or diverse settings becausewithin the statutory services
(21:32):
you do get access to supervision.
It is an expectation that youwill be provided with that.
Now, saying that, I have some NHSOTs that come to me for supervision,
and part of that is because ofwhere they are in their careers.
Some, it's early in their career andthey just haven't got access to an
experienced paediatric OT that they cantalk to, so they've invested in their
(21:53):
own development by connecting with me.
Other people, it was a careercrossroad or a more senior position,
where they're like, okay, I'm atthe top of the tree now, so who do
I go to have those conversations?
Again, they've chosen to invest.
But the majority of peopleare OT business owners.
And the fact that I'm anindependent OT and therefore I'm
an OT business owner as well.
In fact, I loved the post you put uprecently with the question about, Do
(22:16):
you see yourself as an entrepreneurwhen you have your own business?
And I have to say, I had seenthat five years ago, I might have
gone, no, but I absolutely do now.
So my mindset around that has shifted.
And I think there's lots ofpeople out there, like I say,
working slightly differently.
(22:36):
If you have your own business, youare investing in all of that personal
and professional development.
If you're employed, certainly herein the UK, and it sounds like the
same for you, there's a little bitof an expectation that someone else
will pay for, maybe not all of it,but a good chunk of that for you.
Or that it'll be provided withinthe team or the service or that, the
employer will provide opportunitiesfor learning and development.
(22:59):
Absolutely.
It's interesting that you saycontinuing research and education is
a big part of what people are doing.
I think that happens here in the UKas well, but I don't see, and maybe
it's a cultural thing, that we seethat as separate from supervision.
We definitely see that aspart of our development.
But we would be discussing withinour supervision or mentorship
(23:22):
relationships about how that'sgoing to help me get to wherever it
is I want to go next in my career.
So there's this like ongoing conversationabout navigating that career path.
And really, for me, that's whatsupervision should be about.
It's a collaboration.
It's a conversation where you're Workingtogether, sometimes you, it's helpful
(23:42):
just to come and go, Oh, I need tosay X, Y, and Z. And other times it's
really helpful if someone can reflectthat back to you with a question
that maybe you hadn't thought about.
And it just gives them, thesupervisee, a chance to go, I need
to ponder on that a bit longer.
So I'm seeing how thisis all coming together.
I'm in, in Canada, we areregulated provincially.
So each province generally hasits own regulatory body, like
(24:06):
RCOT, but it's per province.
And Here, so I can speak more to ourprocess in Alberta, but I think there
is a fair bit of overlap betweenour different provinces, but very
different from what we've seen in the U.
S. And so here we do have this expectationof a reflective process and to then
choose our learning opportunities,which could be a choice to seek out
(24:27):
supervision or mentorship or trainingor all the things I listed before.
And then We need to write a reflection.
We don't have a certain number of hoursor, a list of courses or anything.
I love how organic it is.
But the piece that it sounds likewe're missing, which we could choose
to do is That sense of connectingwith another to hash that out.
(24:48):
Like it's off I think I'm due at theend of next month, I think it is.
And so it's going to be like Oh shoot,how do I document everything I've done and
make sure I have goals for that, right?
Like it's almost a retroactive,like I started out last year with
an intention to set some goals, butwho knows what was going to come.
of the year.
And so there's this, latitude forthat to evolve, which I appreciate,
(25:09):
but a lot of us aren't thinkingto go document along the way.
So we're often doing this Retroforward, like looking back
and forward at the same time.
But if it's a more intentional, regularlyoccurring process with another that, that
externalizes it, discussion, it's gettingout of my head and my limited experience
of the world and being able to then sharewith another who maybe has some different
(25:32):
experiences that we can compare notes.
And I really think that.
There's a beautiful enrichment.
And then contrast that to, here'sa list of approved CEU courses.
I have to have 10 of them.
And that's it.
That's a whole other thing that,that's not what we're doing
here, but I see it out there.
And it makes me sad because we'remissing these layers of self awareness
(25:53):
and self reflection and personalgrowth and expansion and and connection
and getting feedback that, thatis the thing that makes us grow.
Absolutely.
And I think within the UK, we'reexpected to do formal training, we're
expected to do informal training.
There's lots of different things thatwill be, we will be asked to show that
(26:14):
we participate in when we're at, whenwe have to do our, every two years we
might be audited in terms of our CPD.
Now, supervision is a big partof that, and it is an expectation
that we participate in supervision.
Like I say the frequencies, isthe blurry bit, but there is
an expectation that we do it.
And it is about that reflectivepractice opportunity.
(26:36):
And yes, I'm not saying youcan't reflect by just reflecting
on what you've participatedin and looking back over time.
I think that's brilliant andwe all need to be doing that.
Supervision, I think, takes ita step further because you're
sharing that with someone else.
It becomes a discussion.
It becomes Oh I might haveexperienced it in this way.
Or have you thought about thatfrom, say, the client's perspective
(26:58):
or a colleague's perspective?
Or have you thought about that?
How you felt then, let's review that.
Three months later, you comeback and go, So do you remember
how you felt about it then?
How do you feel about it now?
How have you learned andgrown from that experience?
So it's another level to that reflectivepractice process where someone is just
(27:23):
helping you look at it perhaps in a wayyou hadn't thought to, or challenging you
if you're being really hard on yourself.
So this is something I see in OTs alot, is we're quite hard on ourselves
as individuals, we think maybe we'renot doing enough, we're not working
fast enough, whatever it is, orwe're not really stepping into our
authentic self, we're holding back.
(27:44):
And as you well know, there are lotsof reasons why that might be the case.
But to have someone else point thatout and ask you, not challenge you,
but in a supportive environment, a safeenvironment where supervision must be
safe so that you can grow, so you canpush those kind of edges and grow.
To have somebody else ask you thatand challenge you when you're being
(28:08):
too hard on yourself, to be morecompassionate to just take a different
stance on that, to hear someone validate.
Your knowledge, your experience,your values back to you
can be
really empowering.
And I think that supervising relationshipis the crux of effective supervision.
(28:29):
If you can connect with someone, if youcan collaborate, you can feel safe enough
for them to challenge you without feelingthreatened, and that's really important.
It really enables you to grow.
And I have a beautiful supervisor,and she's an Irish OT, and Dr. Anya
O'Dea, and she is brilliant at doingthat for me and stopping me I'll
(28:50):
talk and talk, and she's just stop aminute, and let's just unpick that.
Yeah, and if she didn't make me dothat, I would just keep talking.
So it's really helpful to have someonemaybe see the things you don't see, and
to help you look at that from just adifferent lens, a different perspective.
So I think it enriches all of thebrilliant CPD and learning that
(29:13):
you're doing, just in a different way.
Yes.
And I do that in a group setting as well.
So you talked about your ACTivate course.
I do offer group supervision to OTs.
And obviously I try to make sure they'vegot common enough themes that they're
then going to be able to work together.
And that's beautiful to see that communitycome together and then support each other.
(29:35):
So yes, I'm facilitating it, but they'realso facilitating for each other as well.
And you.
And knowing you're not onyour own, there's something
very powerful in that as well.
Yes.
Yes.
I've had that so many times too, wherepeople show up to the group session and
have said, I wasn't sure why I came today,
I didn't have a specific thing, but Ineeded to hear that thing that you just
(29:57):
said and, I can so relate and that theyreflect back and so much beautiful healing
that happens from so often it's our ownperception of, Judgment or that we've
really messed that up and we're so goodat empathetically seeing others potential.
And when you have a peer who can see, Ohno, like I, this is how I see it for you.
(30:17):
And now I see my situation differentlytoo, because I can see it in you.
But not myself, but that thecollective is so much more
powerful than I could provide.
Yeah, absolutely.
And one of the things that I do two thingsI do at the end of my groups every time
is I ask my OTs to, for themselves atthe end of the discussion, to come up
(30:37):
with one thing that they've taken awayfrom the hour that we've spent together.
So it might be something they thenwant to, they've heard someone else
do and they want to take it awayand change in their own practice.
But also one wellbeing action.
So I think, again, because we're notalways good at being compassionate, we're
very good at putting other people firstand saying yes to things, when maybe
(30:57):
we should be saying no that we don'talways make enough space for ourselves.
And we all carry multiple roles.
Lots of people are parents,they're carers, they're volunteers.
There's lots of other things that theydo, but carving out a little bit of time
and making that commitment at the end ofthe group to do just one wellbeing action.
I'm not asking them to do it every dayfor the whole month and saying, tell
(31:20):
me one thing you're going to do foryourself before we meet again next month.
And I find that it's been reallyempowering as well, because I've had one,
one OT who said, I went on holiday for thefirst time on my own in years and left,
and it was only a few days, but she tookthat time, created that space for herself.
And she said, if you hadn't we hadn'tbeen having these kinds of conversations.
(31:43):
We wouldn't have thought to do it atthis point, so it's really important
that support is not just professional,that it is looking at the whole person
because we bring our whole self throughour therapeutic use of self, so we
have to be tapping into what's goingon for us in that process so that we
can be fully present for our colleaguesand our clients and our services.
(32:04):
Yes, so you are doing supervisionand you're teaching supervision.
Yes,
I'm doing Meta supervision.
Yeah I think when I decided that I wantedto, In this chapter of my career, I wanted
to really take a deep dive and look atsupervision, not just reflect on my own
(32:25):
experiences and learning, but what I couldprovide for other people going forward.
So I started to look for trainingbecause the training I'd had, had been
within my, the NHS while I worked there.
But to be honest, it was like acouple of hours here and there.
Probably less than 10 hours over20 years, if I'm perfectly honest.
You learn on the job.
(32:45):
There's lots of that.
But then you have good supervision,then you have not so good supervision,
because of what you've experiencedand all the other crazy things
that go on in busy services.
So I thought, I don't want tojust do what I've always done.
So I started looking at what trainingwas available for supervisors.
And actually, within the UK,I find it really difficult to
(33:05):
find some bespoke OT training.
So I ended up doing a postgradcertificate at the University of
Derby in Clinical Supervision, andit was a multi professional course.
And actually, that was beautiful,because it really enriched
my thoughts on supervision.
Based in psychology, But very muchabout applying it to your own practice.
And it was through that I realized notonly do I want to empower myself to be
(33:29):
a better supervisor, I'd really liketo empower other people to upscale
on their supervision skills, to seethat as a valuable space to spend
time and learn in their own CPD time.
Because if you're supporting other OTsor other OT students, whatever, I'm
just In the UK, our OT assistants are,I hate this term, but unqualified staff.
(33:52):
I don't like that as a term,but they're not registered OTs.
They're amazing support staff and alot of them are very highly skilled,
so OTs are supervising them as well.
There's a huge range of people youmight supervise in your career.
We actually need to invest sometime in upskilling ourselves
to do that effectively.
(34:12):
So I decided that alongsidedoing supervision for people that
I wanted to develop training.
Now, it's still in the development phase,it's coming soon, I'm hoping spring,
I will have it ready, and it's goingto be online, it's going to be a self
paced training, but with a difference.
I'm also going to offer group support,so that people can take that theory and
(34:36):
come into the group and go, okay, that'sall great and theory, Lynsey, but When
I've done this is the response I've got.
How can I look at that differently?
So essentially a bit of supervision forsupervisors, but more that mentorship,
more of that apply theory into practice,but around that supervision space.
And I'm sure everybody listening canthink of an employer or an OT that we
(34:59):
had in a practicum that really couldhave used this training that really
might have hurt our confidence withpoorly developed, delivered feedback
or just unrealistic expectations or notco collaborating and just criticizing.
Like I'm sure we've all hadthose experiences and I too
would like to learn more.
I've not take, I've been an OT.
(35:20):
20 some years, 22, I think.
And I have not taken a student all alongbecause I worked part time for so long.
And then in the last five years,I've worked in such an unusual
way that it just, I thought,how could I even have a student?
I'm doing so many weird things.
And I've had two students now in thelast year and it's been very exciting,
but I'm thinking, gosh, I could use someI could learn a little bit about this.
(35:43):
I've had lovely students andthey've, I've been very open
about, hey, I'm learning too.
And, please share feedback andwe can figure this out together.
But yeah, I feel a bit underprepared.
And I think lots of people justcan't get access to training.
I think that's just the reality.
So if you work in a statutory service oran organization, you might get a couple of
hours, but that's it from my experience.
(36:05):
And when I've asked on myFacebook group, that's been the
feedback that I've had as well.
And I just think it's something weneed to pay more attention to because,
yeah, we've all been on the receivingend of feedback that's perhaps not been
delivered as well as it could have been.
But as a supervisor, I also seethat people are put into supervisory
positions when they're not ready.
(36:26):
But they don't necessarily have a choice,or they don't really have anybody to go
to, to go, Can you help me do this better?
I'm struggling.
So I just want to make thatmore accessible for people.
And that's partly why I wantedthe group element to it, to be
able to say, I'm here, I'll do mybest to problem solve it with you.
I'm not there to tell you what to dobecause I'm not in your situation.
(36:47):
And that's not who I am asa person or a therapist.
But I'm there to help you workthrough it and maybe look at it from a
different perspective and to go back.
So I'm very much about, I want youto go back with something to try.
So how can we look at that?
What could the next step be?
Do you feel comfortable doingthat and giving it a go?
(37:07):
It will very much have that focus becausejust because I've tried something and it
works doesn't mean it'll work for you.
It depends on who you're with, theenvironment that you're in and we need to
make sure that we're personalizing things.
But there are strategies we canaccess in order to do that and
actually they're not a millionmiles away from our core OT skills.
So actually we should bebrilliant supervisors.
(37:30):
What we don't do, in my opinion,is apply that OT process and that
OT lens in our supervision process.
We're brilliant at doing it for ourclients, but we're not so good at
doing it for our colleagues, andI would love to see that change.
Increasing the opportunity for peopleto have training in supervision skills
is a massive passion for me thatbuilds into my bigger mission of just
(37:53):
making supervision more positive, moresupportive, more accessible to everyone
that's working within the OT profession.
And it's something that I'm talking tothe Royal College of OT about here in
the UK, because our kind of positionstatement on supervision is a little bit
old, it's 10 years now, and I'm havingconversations and I'd like to be part
(38:14):
of the process to refresh that document.
And I have other amazing OT supervisorsin the UK that will are keen to
come on board on that journey.
So I keep talking to the college andhopefully at some point when it is It's
politically the right time for them.
We will get that out there for people.
But yeah, part of my mission, I I feellike there's this poor, beautiful, lovely
(38:35):
OT in the Royal College that I speakto, and every time she gets a message
or an email from me, she must think, ohno, it's Lynsey again, because I keep
banging the drum on the same thing.
When are we doing it?
Are we ready?
Is it time?
Oh yeah, wait a little bit longer.
I can relate to that.
I feel like there's a, regulatoryprocesses take time to evolve.
And we're seeing out in the world,we're seeing evolution happen in real
(39:00):
time in response to environmentalchanges and situational changes and
political changes and funding changesand that we have to keep adapting.
And regulations Don't adaptas quickly by nature, right?
And I feel like I was also e mailingback and forth with our registrar here
in Alberta several years ago as I wasevolving my services and I just wanted
(39:21):
to be sure that I wasn't breaking anyrules but there actually weren't rules
and where were we going to find thatline and I just kept signing my emails.
What's a trailblazer to do?
So I think that's reallyinteresting and I think that's
common across different countries.
So I certainly know lots of OTs that areworking independently or diverse settings.
And when we hit a kind of,Oh, are we okay to do that?
(39:44):
Or maybe something comes up andthere's a question and we think,
Oh, we better just double check.
Sometimes unfortunately the RoyalCollege just doesn't have the answer.
And it's not because they don't wantto, but it's just because, Sometimes
what people are doing is so nichethat these things will evolve in time,
but it is that it's like research.
What comes first, theresearch idea or the practice?
(40:05):
So we've got that chickenand egg thing, right?
Sometimes it's just a research ideathat someone does and it's amazing.
Other times it's practice.
It's been going on for a longtime that someone goes, okay,
let's put some evidence to that.
And I think regulation works alittle bit like that as well.
But, and it's a slower process becauseit's generally part of a bigger
(40:26):
organization, whereas I just letme hear on my own, do my own thing.
And if I decide I want to trythat, then I just don't try it.
I totally understand why it'sdifferent in different pieces,
but I'll keep knocking on the doorand we'll get there eventually.
And that's my sense too,
if I can demonstrate that I'm questioningboundaries from a responsible and and
(40:51):
aligning values with the better of theprofession, as long as I can keep showing
that, I if I misstep or misinterpretor interpret differently, I feel like
if I've communicated and communicatedfrom a place of caring deeply about the
profession and wanting to improve it,I'm hopeful there'll be some wiggle room.
Yeah, and I think we have probablyone of the most diverse professions
(41:14):
in healthcare and therefore there'sgot to be wiggle room in that.
We've got to have pioneerswho are willing to go.
I'm just going to try this a littlebit differently and see how that lands.
Because if we take Occupation andActivity Analysis as our footprint,
We've got a really wide path that wecan travel, so it's how do we do that,
(41:35):
and I, like you, completely agree weneed to be respectful, we need to be
held accountable for what we do, butwe want to promote OT in its widest
sense, and it's okay to step outsideof the pathway that's already trodden.
It's just how do we do that and whodo we have by our side helping us
through that journey, so you don't feelcompletely isolated and on your own.
(41:59):
And I think that's really important.
Oh, so much and I know for me, it'snot about the what, it's the where.
And because I'm reaching people acrossboundaries it's the if I'm outside
of If the people I'm helping aren'twhere I'm registered, that's where
the boundaries are being pushed.
(42:19):
And then, is it not OT?
Yeah, then it can't be OT, but itis OT, but it's not OT, or isn't it?
And where's, yeah, that's,But I'm navigating, right?
It's, there's a, an internationalconnectedness that I deeply value and
being able to have conversations likethis with you there or Bronwyn in the UK
(42:40):
or Anya in Ireland, or, people in SouthAfrica, it's, I, I so appreciate all of
the places that I get to connect and Ithink we are richer for understanding
how OT is practiced in other countries.
And I think this conversation willreally help others who go, Oh, wow,
that sounds like a very meaningfulway of continuing education.
That's different from where I do it.
(43:00):
Maybe I'd like to introducesomething like that.
And I'm I think these internationalconversations are important.
I think they're really important,and I do recognize the challenges
of working across those boundaries.
For the reason that I can only supervise,because supervision is a very specific
term, I can only supervise other OTsthat are HCPC registered, like myself.
(43:23):
I cannot supervise internationally, butI can teach internationally, and I can
share, and I can talk internationally.
For me My wider mission of promotingsupervision, if you call it something else
in another country, I don't really care.
It's about that connection, thatcollaboration, that growth, that
trusted space to come together.
(43:46):
Call it something else.
There'll be someone else who'samazingly skilled who can
help you do that in your area.
I personally am not reaching beyondthat at this stage on a supervision
process, but certainly in a training, Ithink my supervision skills training, I
think I'm calling it something around,so it's a bit of a working title, kind
of Supervision skills, what's in yourtoolbox and taking it from basics to
(44:10):
brilliance because there's so much we cando in that space and you don't have to
call it supervision if you're in anothercountry, call it what connects with you.
But it's about that upscaling.
How do you work with other OTs?
How do you help them grow?
How do you create a space for themand hold that space for them to
work through some of their journey.
(44:32):
And I think that's really powerful.
So that, I want to teach that,I want to talk about that.
I talk on social media all the timeand I really, in this last year,
really stepped into that supervisionspace on social media and thought I'm
just going to keep talking about it.
And I'm going to seewhat response I get back.
And I'm really loving the collaborationsinternationally as well as in the UK
(44:53):
that I'm having, and those conversations.
Because you're right, as a profession,there's so much we can connect with.
There's so much we can learn fromeach other in different countries,
different states on how people do things.
But we all come under that onehat of occupational therapy,
so let's learn from each other.
It's really important.
It's great.
Are you ready for my last questions?
(45:15):
Yeah.
What does being brave mean to you?
So I think this is a great question.
And because I've listened to your podcast,I've loved the variety of answers.
I think for me, it really is aboutstepping outside of your comfort zone.
So being brave enough to connect withwhat you're thinking and feeling.
And really to understand that it's okayto be slightly different from other people
(45:38):
or to be very different from other people.
There is so much scope withinoccupational therapy to step into.
So really stepping outside ofthose kind of comfort zones.
And I know for me at times, it'staken me a long time to do it.
And other times it hasn't, I'vejust gone, yeah, I'm going.
But within that, the other thing forme is recognizing how that feels.
(45:59):
And recognizing whether that voice ofdoubt that comes in, so again, we could
talk for hours about what that voice ofdoubt is, but recognizing when that's
something genuine, or whether it'sactually telling you this isn't right now.
Or this is something you've agreed to, butnow your values have shifted, it doesn't
align any longer and take some action tostep out of something you're already in.
(46:23):
So it's not always aboutstepping in, sometimes it's
recognizing when to step out.
And I think stepping out ofsomething you've committed to
takes a lot of bravery to do.
Yes, absolutely it does.
It's often easier to take no action.
And very brave to take action,which could be a big change.
(46:44):
And can be really uncomfortablewhen you've already committed into
something to then go I don't know why.
It's time to take someaction and make a change.
So BRAVE is about trusting myself
What is something BRAVEyou've done recently?
Oh, another great one.
So I, for me personally, this lastyear within my business has been
(47:08):
massive in terms of that's two years.
So really investing inthat supervision process.
upskilling my own skills, but stepping outinto the online space and going, I'm here,
and I'm just going to keep talking aboutthis, and I'm really passionate about
it, and I really want people to connectand engage with me in that conversation.
That was massive, and I did havesupport and help to do that, which
(47:32):
was great, because I think, we allneed to be able to tap into that.
But also, it was about Havingthe confidence in myself to
start reducing my clinical work.
So I was five days a week on a clinicalcaseload to trust and be brave enough to
know that this was the right space for meto be in that I could start reducing my
(47:54):
clinical work to give myself the space toreally step into the OT supervision space.
And I'm glad it's as fulfillingas I hoped it would be.
But importantly, from a businesspoint of view, I'm glad I trusted
myself to do it because it alsohad to make financial sense.
It had to be viable as a business.
So that was really brave.
(48:16):
And my kids and my husband watchedme do that and really push myself
really into an uncomfortable placein the beginning of that journey.
But I'm so glad I did.
And my kids are older teens, early 20s.
And my son did say to me, Wow, mom, itwas really amazing to watch you do that.
(48:37):
Because I know how much hard work thattook to do it and how much kind of
stepping into the unknown and that kind ofbravery to just take that leap and do it.
And it inspired him to reallyfollow up on what he wanted to do.
And that was the most beautiful feedbackreally for me to get that from my son.
(48:58):
I can really relate to that too.
I have a son who's veryinterested in entrepreneurship.
and business and he started a smallbusiness selling hockey cards online.
And he took a, he's in high school.
He took an elective course forentrepreneurship, got a hundred
percent and just really has this greatquestions and curiosity and interest.
(49:18):
And I love to see them growingand shaping in their own way
and taking what we put out and
seeing possibility, right?
And in a sense, it gives permissionto not just follow the same path
that everyone else is following.
And I think for young people,that's really hard to do, to be
the one that goes, No, I'm notgoing to go to university or
no, I'm not going to do this.
(49:40):
And I really always want, have alwaysparented in a way that I've said to my
children, you have to be happy first.
Whatever choice you make, it's got tobe one that's going to make you happy.
There's no point in earning millionsof pounds in a job that you hate.
Do something you enjoy.
So it's giving them permission to stepinto that space and to know they can do
it in a different way from other people.
(50:03):
Wonderful.
How can people reach out to you?
What would you like them, whatwould you like people to do
after they've listened to this?
So come and follow me on social.
So I am Lynsey McFarland Shawacross all my social media.
So I spend most of my time in LinkedIn andInstagram, but I am on Facebook as well.
And I have, I'm Lynsey McFarland Shaw onFacebook, but I have a Facebook group.
(50:26):
So anyone who's interested, particularlyin supervision and mentorship.
My Facebook group is OTSupervision and Mentorship.
So come along and joinme there in that space.
And then obviously there'straining coming in the spring.
So what I'm going to do is make sure thatwe have a PDF linked in the show notes.
There will be a little bit aboutsupervision skills that you should
have in your toolbox and that,if you're interested in that,
(50:48):
then come along and find out moreabout the training that we'll be
launching later in the spring time.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate youbeing here and having this
enlightening conversation with me.
Oh, it's been fantastic.
I'm so grateful to have joined you in thisspace and to get to come and talk to your
wonderful listeners about supervision.
(51:10):
And hopefully it's maybe just madepeople think about something from a
way they haven't looked at it before,particularly because you've got such
a beautiful international audience.
But I'm really grateful to you for makingthe space for me to come and join you.
It's been a lovely chat.
I agree.
what a rich conversation about supervisionand professional development in OT.
(51:31):
I particularly appreciated Lynsey'sperspective on how supervision can help
prevent burnout and support OTs throughvarious career stages and transitions.
Whether you call it supervision,mentorship, or professional development,
having intentional conversations about ourgrowth as practitioners is so valuable.
Thank you for joining usin this discussion, Lynsey.
(51:51):
And If you'd like to connect withLynsey, you can find her on social media.
I'll put the links in the show notesand be sure to join her Facebook
group, OT Supervision and Mentorship.
She even has a free gift for youthat's linked in the show notes.
Now, if you've been listening fora while, you know that I'm really
passionate about supporting OTsthrough the ACTivate Vitality program.
(52:12):
And I'm excited to announce thatI am preparing to have 10 more
OTs join our community in March.
So if this is something that interestsyou, if you're looking for community
connection, collaboration, coaching,A place that can feel safe and create
a foundation for you to grow as an OTbusiness owner, I'd love to talk to you.
(52:34):
I'll put the details about how to doso in the show notes, and I can't wait
to see who joins me in this next cohortof the ACTivate Vitality program.
Thanks for listening, andas always, be brave, OTs!
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