Ep. 41: The Making of an OT Entrepreneur with Guest Interviewer Jacqueline Buhler

On this episode of The BRAVE OT Podcast, I get to sit in the interviewee seat as OT student, Jacqueline Buhler, asks me questions about being an OT business owner! 

Jacqueline brings her entrepreneurial spirit and curiosity as we discuss my experiences and reflections on choices I made and ways I adapted at different phases of my OT career and business. 

We draw some parallels between the transition from OT student to emerging clinician and from OT to OT entrepreneurship, revealing how different traits and skills facilitate success. We explore how traits like adaptability, flexibiity, curiosity, self-awareness, and creative problem-solving are valuable skills to develop.

 

This authentic dialogue offers both validation and practical insights for OTs questioning their entrepreneurial potential or wondering how to leverage their natural traits while charting their own unique path in practice.

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ACTivate Vitality is currently open for OT entrepreneurs like you if you would like to grow personally and professionally as the whole person at the centre of your business. Send me an email if this sounds like you! [e-mail]

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Reach our guest host, soon to be emerging OT, Jacqueline for networking on this Google Form.

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A shout-out to our sponsor, Jane, the EMR with heart. To see how Jane can help you reclaim your evenings and weekends, head over and meet Jane to book a personalized demo and, if you’re ready to get started, you can use the code VITALITY at the time of sign-up for a 1-month grace period applied to your new account.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
how do you find occupationalbalance as a business owner?

(00:03):
what I need to, what I do regularlyis check back into why I did
this in the first place, and.
First check in if, is it still true?
is that still my objective?
it's different now, but my why forstarting this was definitely flexibility.
you're listening to the BraveOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,

(00:26):
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion.
In service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keepingit real, doing hard things.
Things unhustling, being curious,exploring, growing through our
challenges, and finding joy,fulfillment, and vitality as we do so.

(00:48):
Really, we're OT ingourselves, and each other.
I hope you love this episode!
Today, I'm excited to sit inthe interviewee seat rather
than the interviewer seat.
I generally try to keep these podcastsmore conversational than interviewer
and interviewee, but there was a neatopportunity where Jacqueline Bueller,
an OT student at the University ofAlberta, asked me a bunch of questions

(01:11):
and we decided to record it as a podcast.
Today, Jacqueline brings herentrepreneurial spirit and curiosity
as we discuss my experiences andreflections on choices I've made
and ways I've adapted at differentphases of my OT career and business.
We draw some parallels between thetransition from OT student to emerging
clinician and from OT to OT entrepreneur,Revealing how different traits and skills

(01:35):
facilitate success in those transitions.
We explore how traits likeadaptability, flexibility, curiosity,
self-awareness, and problem solvingare valuable skills to develop.
This authentic dialogue offers bothvalidation and practical insights for
OTs questioning their entrepreneurialpotential, or wondering how to leverage

(01:57):
their natural traits while chartingtheir own unique path in practice.
Before we jump into today's episode, letme take a moment to introduce Jane, the
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(02:17):
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(03:03):
Jacqueline, I am reallythrilled that you are here.
You are the first student I've had onThe BRAVE OT Podcast and I wanna explain
for everybody else how this came to be.
Is that all right with you?
Yeah, go ahead.
so Jacqueline, is in the same studentcohort as the last OT student I had, and
she reached out through, that student,said, Hey, I'm interested in networking

(03:26):
with people in private practice.
And do you think Carlynwould be open to chatting?
And I said, yeah.
Absolutely.
So you had so many great questions in thetime that you and I had blocked to meet.
And then I said, Hey, send me, let meknow if you have any further questions.
And you sent me a ton of really greatquestions after, but I was like,
holy moly, like this would take along time to, to answer effectively.

(03:47):
And I didn't wanna answer superficially.
and so I said, okay, maybe pick somequestions that are most important to you.
Or maybe we get on the podcastand have this as a discussion
and you said, sure, let's do it.
So here we are.
And thank you so much again, Carlyn.
I'm really excited to be here and I'mlooking forward to our discussion.
Awesome.
Perfect.
thank you.
tell the listeners a little bit about you.

(04:10):
Yeah, my name is Jacqueline.
I am from Edmonton, Alberta, and Igrew up as a competitive dancer and I
have a bachelor's degree in kinesiologyfrom the University of Calgary, and
as well as professional experienceworking as a personal trainer.
And I was drawn to OT because I'm sopassionate about holistic health and I
see lots of gaps where, you know, in my.

(04:30):
Personal training experience, wherethere needs to be more focus on mental
health and physical health, as wellas things like occupational balance.
and so OT was just a really greatprofession that fit me and my values
and I also love that it's so creative.
I also come from afamily of entrepreneurs.
we had a family business growingup and so that drive and creativity
and, Passion to pursue more andfoster professional relationships has

(04:54):
been honed in me since I was a kid.
so I'm really excited to be here andopen up more discussion around grad
students and entering professionalpractice as a new professional.
That's great.
This is good.
Good stuff.
what do you wanna know?
how can I help?
so I think, as a second year student,we're starting to enter this space where

(05:15):
we've done a couple placements and we'restarting to think about that transition
from student to entry-level clinician.
And I know that on your podcastand you're in such a unique.
Position as well because you literallyare coaching OT professionals
in the private practice area.
And you talk a lot about trailblazingbeing BRAVE and creating, using OT
to create a profession and a careerthat you're passionate about that

(05:37):
really aligns with your values.
And that can be scary sometimes.
And I think that new grads inparticular, can be nervous and scary.
And we're at this unique point inour professional lives where we're
at the beginning of our, Trail.
And it's which way, whichdirection do I take?
and a lot of it is aboutcreating your own trail.
And that can be scary.
And so I think new grads have to be BRAVE.

(05:58):
And so with that, I think there'sa lot of value in networking and
fostering professional relationshipswith people like you who have that
professional experience already andhave that unique life experience
because it really shows new grads and.
New professionals and everyone thatevery unique, every trail is unique.

(06:18):
and you have to usethat to grow and learn.
So I think that network, and we have
so many options as OTs, right?
The, the breadth, absolutelybreadth of our possibility is
like frighteningly immense.
Yeah.
And that can be very overwhelming,especially for a new student.
and as someone that I'm passionateabout holistic health and curious about.
Private practice and entrepreneurship.
I think, having an open discussionaround the realities of that and

(06:42):
your life experience offers a lotof insight and value to other people
that are in interested in that,
I love that you're thinkingabout this as a student.
'cause I certainly was not thinkingabout these things as a student.
I was thinking about actually, Ipictured myself making baby splints
at the children's hospital andended up in a whole different place.
And wasn't thinking about business yet.

(07:03):
I did think that maybe once I had kidsand they were in school full-time,
that I would probably wanna dosomething in private practice, but
that felt So far away when I was
a student.
And I think that's so interesting how Ilove having conversations with people.
I have a lot of.
Discussions with my clients as apersonal trainer about, how did you
end up to work what you're doing?
And it's often, it's never linearand I think, there's so much

(07:26):
learning and it's just so interestingto have those discussions.
And to also see that success, ifwe think about our life goal as
a smart goal, that's a singular,
This is where I'm gonna be whenI'm 50 or something like that,
and ending up somewhere else.
that's a success, right?
Like that I I like toleave ourselves open.
We can shoot for something, but knowthat, I look at it like, almost like

(07:49):
we're climbing a mountain, right?
And it's Kind of can't see what'saround the mountain until we get a
little further and go, oh, who knew?
maybe this is my path instead ofthe one I thought I was gonna go on.
And having that flexibility andwillingness to explore and courage
to explore, I think is a reallyempowering thing rather than.
Like a one set focus.
I do admire people who are like,one day I'm gonna do exactly this

(08:12):
and do, but I don't think that'sa realistic path for most of us.
absolutely.
And I think that cansometimes be daunting too.
Especially being in a student and being inthis space where, I'm surrounded by many
people and myself included very Type A.
I'm a planner and we've all beenstudents most of us up until now, and
so we're very used to a very linear.

(08:32):
And lots of discussions aroundcreating those smart goals.
And when those things change andwhen plans change, that can be
really scary, I think, sometimes.
So I think learning to embrace thosetwists and turns are so important.
Yeah.
It's a skill that takes practice,
I think it does.
Yeah.
Do you know what's interesting?
Something you just said too isyou're recognizing that type A

(08:53):
in yourself and in your peers.
And I recognize in a lot of the OTsof my generation we're more type B.
Were these creative, floaty, like alittle bit scattered, like maybe a little
bit ADHD ish or actually have ADHD I'mfinding a lot of my generation of OTs
have ADHD, but interesting that you'recharacterizing a more type a. Nature

(09:16):
in, in your cohort or your peer group?
What, can you expand on that a little bit?
Yeah, I think it, it comes with theterritory of being in a master's program.
There's a lot of pressureto perform and succeed.
and everyone's different like that.
not everybody might be Type A. Totally.
and I think there's actually agood mix of people and it does,
I'm very Type A myself, but I'malso a very creative individual.
I'm like a scattered type A, I thinkit comes with the territory of being in

(09:39):
university and there's pressure to succeedand there's lots of deadlines and so
you, you have to stay organized, right?
Yeah.
and I just find that.
something that I've observed instudents is that, you have to be,
and and if you're not, that youmight fall behind or something.
I'm not saying that, that'sa bad thing or anything, but
that's just something I observed.
yeah, that makes sense.
And it's a time of life where youdo have to be more structured and

(10:02):
organized than other times of life.
to even just to get into OT.
Like it took me five years to get into OT.
Yes.
And this was in the bachelor'sprogram, so I got a whole other
degree while I was trying to get in.
'cause it was Wow.
I was not, like I was working,I was volunteering, I was
doing a lot of cool stuff.
Yeah.
But, my ADHD was alsoundiagnosed and Right.
yeah.
And so my journey was verynot linear from the get go.

(10:23):
and I think that's reallyinspirational though.
So I guess with that, would you like todive into some of my questions, please?
Yes.
Okay.
So I changed a couple of the questionsfrom our last conversation just to focus
them a little bit more on the topicof private practice, entrepreneurship,
and that new grad territory.
okay.
We were talking about when we first metyour, that transition that you had from.

(10:46):
traditional clinician and ACBI clinic and home health.
To opening up your own private practice.
So was your private practicesomething that you always envisioned?
And I know it just happened a little bit.
And how did you navigate that transitionfrom clinician to business owner?
Business owner who's stilla clinician too, right?
Yes.
Have to wear all the hat.
Absolutely.
So I did, I did think that one day Iwould probably have a private practice.

(11:13):
Before, as I was a student, thatI saw that as a lifestyle thing.
I knew as a student that I reallywanted to be a mom and I really
looked forward to being a mom.
And I really loved kids and people alwaystold me I was really good with kids,
so I wanted to get into pediatrics.
I figured that was probably agood way and, I could have a
pediatric private practice one day.
That was probably gonna be a thing.

(11:33):
Then, my boyfriend at the time,he worked for, we both worked for
WestJet, actually I was a flightattendant while I was in OT school.
and he was a customer service agentand, he was moving up in his career
and he was being transferred to likesmaller WestJet basis, bigger ones,
as a supervisor, as a manager, andthat was his career development.
so as he was moving around while Iwas in school, he, I said, when I

(11:57):
graduate, I'll move to wherever you are.
And so at one point itwas gonna be Sudbury.
So we bought a couch and Sudbury, wemoved my stuff before my last placement.
And then by the time I finishedmy last placement, he had
been transferred to Ottawa.
So I got to move to Ottawainstead of Sudbury, though
Sudbury would've been cool.
I was happy to end up in Ottawawho moved our couch and our

(12:17):
stuff again, and, got to Ottawa.
And so I thought, okay, Chiowould be a great place to work.
I always wanted to work inpeds and like the children's
hospital there would be neat.
But, I not fluent in French.
I studied French All the way throughhigh school, but certainly nowhere
near fluency and, couldn't get a job.
Couldn't get a job in home health.
Couldn't get like all of the kind of areasthat I thought that might work for me.

(12:39):
No.
Couldn't get a job as aUnilingual Anglophone.
And so that was feeling reallydisappointing and discouraging.
My husband was bilingual.
That was why he wasable to get a job there.
And, so I worked with an agency, aplacement agency, a recruiting agency,
and they found me a job at CBI.
Which, they said, Hey, they doa lot of like return to work

(13:01):
W-C-B-W-S-I-B in Ontario, WCB here.
And I thought, okay, that is definitelynot the area I wanted to work in, but
hey, you know what, here I am, thisis the job I can get, so let's do it.
And, was hired at a clinicthere by the most lovely humans.
that took me in as this new grad intothe family, invited me for dinners.
Yeah, help us move when, Oh wow.

(13:22):
On the pizza, Truly embrace, like whenI, then I got married and pregnant
in the time that I was there too.
Like the office manager's, like I keepthese, like these crackers in my desk.
So if you start to not feel good or getreally hungry in the day, I just know
that they're here and like just such,such a genuinely kind environment.
I didn't, yeah.
Who knew?
And.
and they really saw my value in,working with the people with complex

(13:47):
pain and mental health conditions.
And my, most of my first degreeended up being psychology.
And so that fit really nicely.
And so they had me develop someprograms there around, some mental
health stuff and return to workfor long-term disability and.
Then when I, moved to back toAlberta, which we did, two years
after we had moved to Ottawa, CBIcreated me a job, in Edmonton.

(14:11):
I think they had me take overan employer services division.
And again, I'm only two years intomy, like from having graduated, but
they were really CBI really likes todevelop new grads And so I was a manager
of employer services for Alberta atthe time, I think, and did that for
until my mat leave and then moved toCalgary and they created me another
job and thought, wow, this is neat.

(14:33):
This was not me working at thechildren's hospital, like I imagine.
Yeah.
I just learned a ton about the businessof rehab, like which payers are paying
for things, what programs they'relooking for, how to communicate with
these different kind of, Differentparties involved in a complex situation
and where my value was in that.

(14:53):
And so thought, huh, these are,this is maybe what I would do
with private practice later.
And there came a time where I was needingto do a lot more business development
than I liked and Was tiring of some ofthe third party kind of insurer stuff and.
I had, little kids by this pointand decided, you know what, I'm
gonna go work for home care.
So I left CBI and got an a HS job, doinghome care and I really enjoyed that too.

(15:18):
Ended up working out of, a rural teamfor a while, working, like helping
out on an adult team in the cityand, thought, I'll do this until
my kids are in school full time.
And there was this change.
Oh.
And I had also, when I left CBI,they suggested, you should probably
just start a small, like side privatepractice because we'll send you

(15:40):
work that fits you better than us.
And I thought, oh, okay, that's weird.
I don't actually wanna, I'm workingpart-time, like I think I was
working 0.2 or something in myright home care job, but why not?
And so I did, I hung a shinglelike by find an OT on, the OT.
SAOT site and essentially starteda tiny private practice on the
side there before I was ready toreally jump into private practice.

(16:03):
And they did send me some work.
A little bit of other work cameand so it ended up being like this
little hybrid where I had my 0.2and then maybe I did another day of
kind of private work on the side.
I think I went up to a 0.6 inhome care at some point, and they
changed to one of the rules whereit used to be that we would start.
We would start working, mostof us at home, go out and see

(16:23):
some clients, maybe pop into theoffice, go see some more clients.
Usually they were closer to our home'cause we'd worked our way into having
clients generally close to where we lived.
And then finished paperworkat the kitchen table.
And walk up to the bag at theend of the day and you're done.
And they switched it and said,Hey, we actually want you to
come and check in at the office.
Sign in at eight 50 andsign out at four 15.

(16:45):
You need to take an hourand a half worth of breaks.
And I was like.
That doesn't work for me.
Yeah, I liked the way I was doingit and that I was taking a half
hour in the middle of the dayand having a half hour at the
beginning and end of my day instead.
And this kind of flexibility andfluidity was gonna mean like that.
It worked well for me.
And if I was to stick with kind ofsigning in, signing out the way they did,

(17:06):
I was gonna be sitting in more traffic.
I was gonna need a new childcare provider'cause the hours were gonna be different.
And I thought, oh, I guess I'm goingall in with my private practice now.
And so I already had it.
It was just a matter of leaning into that.
And around the same time, somebodyhad contacted me through my listing,
my Find an OT listing and said, Hey,we were looking for somebody to do

(17:29):
these return to work assessmentsthis many a week for three months.
Do you know how to do them?
Yeah.
And here's what we'll pay, and it wasgonna pay me in that three months what
my job was gonna pay me in nine months.
And I was like, Yeah, let's do this.
That was my opportunity to buildmy business and yeah, I've been too

(17:49):
busy ever since.
That's great.
that's a really interesting story,and I think what I hear is that
it, that having that flexibilityis so important, especially as a
mother and, someone who has manydifferent, occupations on your own.
So I think, the next question that wouldreally fit this is like, how do you find
occupational balance as a business owner?
I know, and I know that's a big topicfor you in your coaching business,

(18:11):
and I have a friend and even, mydad, my grandpa, we're business
owners and finding that balance.
Is very challenging.
So it's how do you make time for that?
For your family, friends,self care, hobbies.
So I, need something that Ifind it is so easy when it's
your business, it's your baby.
It's in your house, it's myoffice is here in my home.

(18:34):
It's always there.
It is really easy to slip into workingmore than you ever would in a job.
because you care deeply, andyou've created this thing so
darn it, you're gonna make it go.
You're more motivated to work evenmore, which is a recipe for burnout.
and so I, what I need to, what I doregularly is check back into why I

(18:54):
did this in the first place, and.
First check in if, is it still true?
is that still my objective?
'cause we do grow over time.
My kids are 16 and 19 now.
it's not that I'm volunteering to ingrade one to read with them or anything
like that, or going on field tripsand still some field trips, but, it's
different now, but my why for startingthis was definitely flexibility.

(19:15):
And I had this goal of could Iwork part-time hours and earn
what I would've at a HS full-time?
that was my financial goal, like roughly.
And I haven't always, andsometimes I far exceeded it.
but that idea of essentially earning morefor the time that I was putting in and
then having the flexibility to travel.
'cause again, my, Husband andI met working for an airline,

(19:36):
like travel is core for us.
Yeah.
And he gets, I don't know if fiveor six, like weeks of holidays,
a year, sometimes there are more'cause there are carry over things.
And so to be able totravel as much as he could.
'cause I was never gonna get thatmany holidays with, with my jobs,
especially working part-time.
And so back to flexibility and am Iearning more for the hours I'm putting

(19:57):
in than I would have otherwise?
And that kind of keeps megrounded back into, oh, hold up.
Do you need to spend more timeon Instagram or doing this?
Thing, maybe not, like back tois that keeping me flexible?
Am I feeling like a slave tomaintaining, a podcast or Right.
A blog or are those thingsactually making a difference?

(20:18):
Because there are so many non-billablehours in a business, right?
So many things that are, importantthings to do, but aren't necessarily
going to pay the bills and wecan find a lot of busy work.
So I. I do need to check in and questionwhen my work is creeping outside of
the bounds that I'd like it to be in.
And also honor the flexibility ofsometimes I get to, have flexibility

(20:45):
in the middle of the week andwrite a report on a Saturday.
it's my preference to usually be writinga report on a Saturday, but it was cool
to go skiing in the middle of the week.
That's great.
I think that's definitely somethingthat a lot of people are attracted to
in entrepreneurship of having freedom ofyour time, but that also can definitely
come with certain caveats and sacrificesthat you have to make and Yeah, the
flexibility goes both ways, right?

(21:06):
Absolutely.
And I think that sometimescan get overlooked.
And I think something youtouched on was that, having that.
Space to reflect on your practiceand check in with yourself.
and that's something that wetalk a lot about in our program
is like critical reflection andself-reflection to foster that growth.
And I'm just curious, is that somethingthat you set time aside for in a schedule?

(21:27):
what does that look like for you?
Do you do journal?
Yeah.
This sounds like almost too planned.
A little plug, but I use my ACTivateVitality planner, of course.
the ACTivate Vitality Planneris more of a reflection tool
than it is a planning tool.
Like it's truly To support people in.
An ongoing reflection of theiroccupations and how they're impacting

(21:48):
them and how they're connecting totheir values and their intentions,
their purpose, what's working.
What's not working right?
And then plan accordingly, likeplan with those things in mind.
and so there's this regularchecking in, okay, how's it going?
How's it feeling?
How, like what, which valuesare you connecting with?
And so there are lots of promptsthroughout to do an ongoing reflection.
And that came out of.

(22:10):
Me doing that already.
And so I used to use, the passionplanner is, was my favorite and
I've got lots of them, that Iwould often use with clients too.
But it was so helpful in my ownprocess I've got my digital calendar
with where I need to be when, butthe sense of how's my week look, how
am I. What am I putting in there?
Okay.
and I generally color code the thingsthat I do for myself that are like purely

(22:35):
for me in some sort of pink or purple.
'cause I'm the only woman in my house.
and.
The things I do for my kids are usuallysome sort of blue because I have boys.
so silly, right?
Pink and blue.
But it's a way for it to always stand out.
And then everything else getsall sorts of other colors.
But, when I start to notice that I'm notdoing the pink things or I'm crossing
them out, or I'm not even putting them in,

(22:57):
Trending toward too busy to I need toadjust my load or I need to set some
boundaries to create more time for myself.
'cause that's the reallyrestorative stuff.
And even just stuff like meal planningor, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna be
seeing that client down there by, there'sa really cool walking path by the river.
Why don't I make sure that I havean hour before that and I'm gonna

(23:19):
go for a walk, or, I bet thatclient would like to go for a walk.
Let's plan that in and I tend to lookat those types of things in my planner.
So that I can be checking in on whatare the things that fill my bucket.
How can I work those things into the week?
Where am I getting way overloaded?
and where do I need tothen make adjustments?
Is it saying Like looking at thatand going, no, I need to say no

(23:40):
to referrals for a month now.
So that I can recoup that space,that even with the clients
I have right now, I can't.
But if I start to block that, I knowI'm gonna be discharging a couple
people in the next couple of weeks.
I'm not going to, 'cause it's soeasy to then fill those spaces.
Nope.
I'm gonna say no until.
Maybe the spring or till thenew year or something like that.

(24:01):
But it's through that processof I need to write it out.
I need to see it visually.
I need to see it spilling over or gettingskipped over or getting scratched out.
Or me writing, ah, I'm soexhausted, or I'm sleeping terribly.
Or I've skipped my dance class or mypottery too many times this month.
And it's visual in that process for me.

(24:23):
that's really great.
It sounds like that having thatself-awareness and that being able
to set boundaries with yourselfand boundaries with others and
even clients is so important.
And, I think that's definitelywhere, business owners or even
clinicians can struggle sometimes.
So having that is.
Really important.
it's just a side note.
You say you're the onlyfemale in your, household.
I have three older brothers.

(24:43):
So I understand that having pinkand purple is very important.
So Totally.
I buy, just as an
aside,
totally, I buy cell phone chargingcords that have flowers on
them, so nobody will steal them.
Actually, and there's the dog.
I have to say the dog'sfemale too, so we'll,
that's good.
Yeah, it's me and my mom and, our female,our dog and our cat, in the house.
So I get it.
but that's self-reflection I thinkis so important and like being

(25:05):
able to set those boundaries.
And I wanna go back earlier wewere talking about like type A
personality, type B personality, and.
So when you're in this business,obviously it sounds like you
have to be very organized.
You have to have that self-awareness.
You use your journal andyour, planner all the time.
And to me that very much reflectslike type A and I'm like, oh, I
love planning and I love writingto-do lists and that kind of thing.

(25:28):
So in the space of private practice,do you think that, or what are your
thoughts on having certain personalitytypes, to be successful or not?
I took an entrepreneurshipclass in my undergrad and.
We talked about, you have to evaluateif you're going to go into business,
do you have the personality traitsthat will set you up for success?
So are you disciplined, doyou have that self-awareness?

(25:49):
And
if not, are those thingsthat can be learned?
Oh, this is such a good question.
so one would think thatI'm pretty organized.
I am not.
I'm a bit of a hot mess to be honest.
I. If I could show you around my office,it looks fairly tidy ish up here, but down
on the floor I have projects and paper andI've got like stickies all over the wall.

(26:12):
I've got piles of books here.
I've got a whole wall of books there.
I've got piles of books there.
there it.
My brain is so not linear.
And this, I think this goes backto my neurodivergence, right?
I do have a ADHD for sure.
And, so I'm this kind of likeexpansive creative thinker who
Can't see anything on a line.

(26:33):
and so I think that there.
I have to work hard at organization andI'm not always great at it, but I do
know which things must be organized.
And I can prioritize those things.
So like communication with clients,documentation, billing, like knowing
where I need to keep organized for.

(26:54):
And also my professional obligationto do those things as ethically
and in a way that, follows.
The expectations are professionalexpectations and stuff, and then there's
all the other stuff that creative processI think is a strength as an entrepreneur.
oh yeah.
'cause that's, there's thatyou do have to be driven, you
do have to, be goal oriented.

(27:14):
And at the same time, I think youhave to be flexible and creative
and, and willing to break themold and try things imperfectly.
And so that.
I find that a lot of the, the peopleI support in my, coaching where I
coach other OT business owners, I'moften like, I'm using acceptance
and commitment therapy to help thembuild psychological flexibility.

(27:36):
I'm doing it in a coaching format.
I'm not doing therapy in that.
but.
It is to support their psychologicalflexibility, because sometimes we're
holding way too tightly on thatsmart goal or that vision of what
a business should look like or whatthey thought it was gonna look like.
And here it isn't.
So clearly I'm failing and I suck atthis and I should do any next things.

(27:58):
And really, I'm trying to build moreresilience with people in exploring
curiously and exploring possibilityand exploring well, what is really the
purpose or in intention behind this?
And is there another route there that.
Feels more in reach or giventhe factors that have come up in
life or in the economy or, in,yeah, hey, I'm not even impedes.

(28:19):
Go figure.
but there's just building that resilienceand flexibility in how we see things,
I think is really important to developor important to possibly have as,
an existing trait, That I think.
People who are too structured and rigid.
Sounds judgy.

(28:40):
Maybe that's not the word I'mgoing for, but, too attached
to a strict, specific way.
Yeah.
I think that they're probably gonnastruggle with entrepreneurship because
there are, it's a bit of a roller coasterand you have to be willing to ride it.
yeah.
Definitely.
And I think, Being young and beingon social media as we do, there's a
lot of portrayals of, run your ownbusiness and you have so much free
time and break the night to five.

(29:01):
But I think that's so glamorized andpeople don't realize that running your
own business comes with instabilityand it comes with a lot of fears and as
you talk about, you have to be brave.
as someone who really like myself, Ithrive so much on structure and having
that routine and that kind of thing.
Like how do you personally deal with that?

(29:22):
Sometimes the fluctuations ofentrepreneurship and, maybe one month
you're making X amount of money or onemonth, there's so many, things that
can be unpredictable with running abusiness and how do you deal with that?
Yeah, so I've dealt with thatin different ways at different,
in different phases of life.
So fully acknowledging, I have ahusband who has a really secure job

(29:43):
with a solid income that's fulltimeand it does the investing for us.
It's, there's, it provides usthe benefits and so that has
allowed me to, fluctuate and I.
Also within our family, we've chosen thatwhen the kids were younger, I was the
part-time working parent so that I couldbe the parent who drives them to school.
'cause we've chosen to send ourkids to a school outside of the

(30:03):
community and things like that.
I'm the one who holds the appointmentsand immunizations and, all of the
extra things that we need to be doing.
And who's got, different extracurricularswhen and that sort of thing.
And Within that family structure is abuilt-in, flexibility for my business.
We certainly need my income, butwe could adjust our lifestyle

(30:25):
if we didn't have my income.
So I wanna Acknowledgethe privilege of that.
And at the same time, I support clients.
I support OT who are the primaryincome earner in their family,
and we look at different ways ofNavigating those ups and downs.
And so there are lots of wayswithin a business that you can
create that stability or nowhereyou can fluctuate that stability.

(30:47):
So for me, it's been like lookingat, there's get, there are
different sort of referral sourceswho will keep you really busy.
Is that the type of work you want to do?
Maybe not, but as you're workingtoward the type of work you wanna do,
it's good to know that, you could dothese types of assessments because
these referrals sources tend tosend referrals pretty steadily and.

(31:10):
You can start to say no to those asyou get more of these or even turn
to those and say, Hey, I've got time.
Is there, do you haveany, anybody for this?
And For me, that's how I've done it.
But for some other people too, sometimesit's great to keep a casual job or a
part-time job that you know is gonna.
Kind of keep you at a baseline so that youhave that sense of safety and stability

(31:31):
within yourself to then be able to dothose brave things to try and step it up.
Because if you're in a stateof, where you're not sure about
being able to pay the bills,That it's fluctuating that much.
You're a little bit more in fight orflight, and you don't have the resilience
to be able to do those next things, right?
So it can be really stabilizing to, tokeep a part-time job or a PRN or casual

(31:55):
job that, allows you a bit of thatminimum kind of income on which to build.
Some of those different ways of ridingthat out economically and subcontracting.
That's been another one too where,I don't charge, I don't get paid as
much per hour as if I was the primaryreferral re recipient, but a lot of

(32:16):
places that are contracting, othershave a lot of referrals to give.
So you what you make up for in hourlywage, you get in volume and that could
be another sort of lever to work with.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it sounds like having, A solid plan.
And I also hear lots of themes ofhaving that teamwork of like with your
partner, your husband is so importantand I think that's so wonderful.

(32:36):
and I also wanna add too, like eventhe way that you talk about your
business, I can hear so many themesof just OT and balance and being
holistic and I just love how much.
OT is everything.
Yeah.
And it's so ingrained in yourbusiness and it really reflects
by how you speak about it.
And I think that is so valuable forpeople who do have businesses to find

(32:56):
that balance and, seek that stability.
talking about that, subcontracting,which you're just starting on, I'm
curious, so you've been running your.
Your business as well, independently.
Was there any reason that you chose tokeep doing it independently or do you
ever, or have you ever have had plansto delegate to have more contractors or

(33:17):
expand or a marketing team or that kind ofthing, or even go into a physical space?
'cause I know you take a lot of clients.
You don't take clientsin your own home, do you?
No.
clients in the community?
That's right.
And online?
Mostly.
Online and online.
And online.
Yeah.
So can you tell me more about that?
About that
decision?
I've done all of those things that youdescribed And at different times and

(33:38):
so I keep flexible and open to tryingthose things and seeing how they fit.
So there was a time, several years.
A goal where I just had toomany referrals and What was I
gonna do with all of this work?
The referrals kept coming at me.
And, okay, I'll hire other OTs,wanna learn to do what I'm doing.
So I hired, I had a team ofcontractors at one point, like at

(34:00):
three or four I think at one time.
And, I was teaching them to do what Iwas doing and also mentoring them, like
supporting them, and then also making surethat my referral sources were seeing that.
They would get the same standard of,care that I was providing as to help
them trust and keep referring to me.
Which left me micromanaging a lot morethan I would have liked to, in order

(34:23):
to make sure the reports were lookingreally consistent, the communications
that were going to, the referralsources were really consistent.
And, I had my hands in too manythings and I hated it because, I
liked mentorship, I liked delegating.
I did not like all of the executivefunctioning, extra executive functioning
demand of overseeing that many moreclients, that many more referrals, that

(34:45):
many more reports and billing even justlike they, the contractors are billing me.
I'm billing the insurer.
I'm paying the contractor when Iget paid, but it's been a while.
And where like keeping trackof all of that was a lot.
So I was like, oh.
I should get an admin who can dothis, but it's so complicated.
I'm struggling to do it.
So I need to figure out a system beforeI can designate, delegate that out.

(35:08):
And then it just was feeling less andless fulfilling and as I reflected in
my own ongoing reflective practice.
I really love the client workand, I do enjoy mentorship, but
I don't enjoy managing a team.
That just wasn't the way I wanted to workAnd I actually, when I looked at all the
hours I was putting in to manage a team,I was earning a lot less for my time.

(35:32):
by doing so, even though Iwas only paying them half of.
Ish of what I was getting paid for,I was still putting in more hours
for that half that I was earning.
and Really wasn't worth it.
And so certainly there could have beenimprovements to make that more efficient,
but I actually just didn't enjoy it.
and so thought, okay, maybe saying noto referrals is actually the next step.

(35:55):
I don't have to take allthe work that comes my way.
So starting to, be BRAVE.
'cause that is scary for OTs who are newin private practice to turn away work.
'cause it feels likewhat if we lose it all?
What if they stop calling me?
yeah.
That sort of thing.
I'll lose my whole business andlearned that actually was not the case.
People actually start to it's like walkingby a bunch of like bars on a bi busy

(36:18):
street and you wanna go to the one withthe lineup, not the one that's empty.
So I didn't lose any work by saying no.
People saw me as valuable and in demandand started to be willing to wait longer
and longer to be able to get their clientsinto me rather than referring to others.
And that was an interesting side effect.
I did hire admin support somewherealong that journey as well, but I found

(36:42):
that so I work out of my home office.
I don't have a physical space.
Never have, I like tokeep that, cost down.
So if I had, if I was spending $1,500a month or something like that to keep
a clinic, I need to get that much morework per month, to stay profitable.
Whereas actually I charge.
To drive to people.
like I get paid just as much fordriving to see a person, right?

(37:03):
As for seeing them inthe way that I'm working.
That's not the case for everybody.
But that's been the case with theinsurance work that I've done.
why would I spend money on a spacewhen I can actually, Just keep this
really profitable without that expense.
And I loved seeingclients in the community.
Now I see them mostly online.
That was a transition thathappened through the pandemic.
It's working really well.

(37:23):
I'm doing a lot of video stuffand it works well for me.
Also, having the two sides ofmy business where it's a smaller
amount of clinical stuff and a, abigger amount of online coaching and
podcasting and all of those things.
And so being able to,they blend nicer together.
If I'm doing them all from here, I stilldo go see clients from time to time.
so I had contractors, I've hadassistants, but they have to be virtual

(37:46):
assistants and I've had lots of reallygreat assistants, but they can't be me.
And so there's a lot of, it'slike that I have to do a lot of
prep work to be able to have theassistant be able to do it the way.
That I would like it to be done, orI also have to be really flexible
with, okay, it's not how I'd likeit to be done, but it's done.

(38:08):
or being that, hey, 80%.
Done.
And me needing to editanother 20% is still helpful.
And so dancing that dance with notmicromanaging, trying to be flexible about
what done looks like or knowing that Istill have to put in a fair bit of work
to, have it come out the way I would like.
it's, there's not been a perfect way.

(38:29):
And so I have, And sometimes I've foundtoo, having one assistant who can do it
all hasn't been very realistic for me.
sometimes it's maybe one, one assistantwho does my podcasting editing and
another who does some social mediastuff and another who might help with.
Billing and things like that.
And then I don't want a teamof three assistants either.
And so sometimes I'm juggling with,okay, the podcast is the most con,

(38:53):
time consuming part, let's do that.
I don't have that manyclients to do billing for.
I'll do the billing myself.
and so there's been a bit of.
Fluctuating over time.
I do invest in coaching regularly, soI'm generally learning about marketing.
I'm learning about positioning.
I'm learning about different waysof evolving my online, services.
And not my OT stuff.

(39:14):
I just know how to do that.
it's easy to keep that,Effective and successful.
It's more so the development of anonline coaching program, development
of online trainings, and that requiresa lot more strategy and evolution in
what works out there in marketing.
And so I'm always learning about thatand hiring different coaches to support
me in that next leg of the journey.

(39:35):
One, join one program to learnhow to build, ACTivate Vitality.
And then as I keep growing and going,oh, I don't like marketing in this way.
I like it better this way.
And maybe I'll learn alittle bit more about that.
And then hiring admin supportto, to support with that
evolution as I move along.
Yeah, I think that's a really greatperspective to have, as Putting yourself

(39:56):
as an opportunity to learn aboutthose things rather than delegating.
And it sounds like you've reallyfound something that works
for you and for your time.
And I think that there'sa lot of value in that.
I feel I don't know, I think
it's
still evolving, but
I don't think there's ever gonna be anend point where I'm like, ah, here it is.
'cause it just keepschanging and that's alright.
And I think, that's really great.
And so I think that is a great leadin into my next question, honestly.

(40:19):
I know we only have acouple more minutes here.
Sure.
But I know because we've been talkingabout how your path evolves over time
and you have to try certain thingsand this worked for a little bit and
then you have to shift gears and thatdidn't work, so let's try this instead.
And everything is always, you're alwayslearning and you're always growing and
seeking that professional development.
Yeah.
So with that, like where do yousee your business in the future?

(40:41):
something that we talked.
We talk about is again, settingthose smart goals, right?
Yeah.
And that applies to business.
So with that, do you have a long-termplan or do you see your business
as just evolving with time andas you evolve as a professional?
what does that look like?
it's a little blurry, but I can, thereare some defining characteristics I
see about where I would like to be.

(41:03):
So I would like to beworking less hard at it.
So I look at the things in myday that I would do for free
because they come so naturally.
It's running the coaching calls, it'sdoing the one-on-one with, clients.
It's, creating and ideating different waysof communicating things like those things.

(41:23):
I so enjoy the creative.
Aspects of creating a safe container inthe ACTivate Vitality community and right.
Creating that sense of, communitycohesion and then different ways of
how do I communicate that out to theworld, that's actually where I end up.
Doing a lot more like striving,pushing, like trying to find the thing.

(41:43):
That's where I can tipinto overworking right now.
'cause I feel like it's hard tocommunicate the value of what I
do because it isn't a tangible,let's start your business or
let's, Optimize your profitability.
that's not what I'm doing.
I'm actually like really tryingto help OTs from the inside out.
And help them really feel liketheir businesses are aligned with

(42:04):
what they want to be doing in life.
That they're complimenting theirlife, that we're not looking at
work life balance, because that's.
Pits work against life.
Ultimately, I want your workto be life enhancing too.
If like we have the ability to do that.
OT is in high demand.
we can be easily too busy and so whynot make sure your work is really

(42:26):
enhancing your life and buildingthat sustainability and alignment.
But it's hard to like market that as atangible outcome for people to invest in.
and so I'm constantly in this, whatdo I. How do I communicate that?
What are the key words?
What are the search terms for that?
what's the marketing campaignthat makes that really clear?
Because those outcomes look different.

(42:47):
For one person, it's maybe startinga business for another person, it's
maybe shrinking a business For anotherperson, it might be like, Hey, actually
I would rather have a job right now.
Cool.
that's, if that's ultimately whata person needs, like I want them to
find their authentic path and that theoutcomes could look very different, but
it's truly a process of getting more.
Self-aware and reflective and beingin a safe community to do that

(43:10):
exploration and building the flexibilityto see things in different ways.
So I would like to, I would loveto nail my messaging on that.
So that I can do a little lesshard work on that, that striving
nature of how do I tell people aboutthis, in a way that they're gonna
get, that this is what they need.
definitely.
And I think that's a part of OT andthat's definitely something that
we are always learning as new gradsis to define OT as a profession

(43:35):
because there's so much value in it.
And like you said, it is in high demand.
And to translate that into businessoutcomes can be really difficult.
So I think that's really important.
I think I'll ask you one morequestion 'cause I know we're a
little bit short on time here.
No worries.
So we've talked a lot, we've talked alot about navigating the, the, some of
the challenges with running a business,finding your own trail, and a, I hear

(43:55):
a lot of themes of being flexibleand a lot of that self reflection and
that things aren't always perfect.
so I wanna flip the switch and whatdo you think is the best or the
most rewarding part of what you do?
I think it, it's seeingpeople succeed right.
On their own terms.
Like when, and this is happeningboth in my private practice and in

(44:18):
my coaching business, I've been ableto like, support them in planting
a few seeds or identifying whatthe seeds are we need to plant.
but then this kind of moment wherelike things click and then off
they go and there's it feels oh,the angels sing and the, all the
OT gods are shining on all of us.
It's so often it's so subtle, right?

(44:40):
That it's not like this was the goalwe set on day one and you achieved it.
It's usually somethingfar, less linear than that.
There was this kind of, as weexplore, we had a goal in mind, but
as we explored and then suddenlysomething like caught and the clouds
parted and the person just was like.
I know what I need todo now, and off they go.

(45:00):
I feel like that sense of, thembuilding that sense of efficacy.
So often in my mental health clientsand in my coaching clients where they
just come to this place of awarenessrealization, self-efficacy, and then
they're able to then go do thoseoccupations that feel really aligned
and juicy and rewarding for them.
And that's what's rewarding for me.
That sounds so inspirationaland so wonderful.

(45:23):
we all love helping people inthis profession and that's why we
entered this profession and to seepeople succeed is so wonderful.
And I think what really sticks for mein that comment is that it's non-linear,
just like our professional lives.
I think, At least in my perspectivebeing in grad school, again, we're
always talking about smart goalsand your plan and there's lot,
so many things about planning.

(45:43):
But I think what people don't realizeis that even rehab and even the
occupational therapy process and healingprocess and coaching and everything
isn't always linear and that's okay.
And sometimes you're going afterthose small moments or those aha
moments as you described, thatyou can really see people succeed.
So I think that's really quite beautiful.
I love that.

(46:04):
And do you know what actuallythat opens up to the main message?
I would love to leave any newgrads who are listening to this.
Or soon, new grads.
Is that.
we can so easily get caught upin, this is, these are the facts.
I know this is the research.
I know these are the Yeah.
Courses I haven't taken yet.
or this sort of sense of I feellike we go to university to

(46:27):
find out how much we don't know.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Have that humbleness of wow, there islike a lot more truth out there than I can
possibly have and that is overwhelming.
And so we can.
We can go out into this world with thissense of, but I don't know everything yet.
And our true value of OT is actuallythe way we solve problems, the

(46:48):
way we see problems, the way we,oh, walk into a situation and
look curiously at the individual.
What's going on with themin their environment?
Who's around, what are they trying to do?
What are their supports?
And.
That is magic.
That is gold.
And it's different for everysingle person you're gonna see.
You're never gonna see the sametwo problems, the same two ways,
because those are individuals indifferent families, in different

(47:11):
settings, in different occupations,maybe with the same condition.
But there's probablydifferent stuff going on.
And so I really want to it help.
OTs to really know that theyhave these tools inside them.
And it's this sense of being open andcurious and actually letting open an
agenda that going in with your OT brainon and being open to what you're gonna

(47:34):
see and what you're gonna find and howyou are going to explore the problem with
the client is the best thing you can do.
you can then go and research somesolutions, but I see too many people
like preparing for hours beforethey've met a person and then they.
Bring, like many worksheets or likethis kind of really structured plan
with how they're gonna approach that.

(47:55):
And I miss the boat because theyget there and they're not paying
attention to what's going on 'causethey're too attached to their plan.
So
really yeah, embracing that sense of youas an OT c the world in a certain way.
Bring that, bring curiosity andthen explore in that context what
you actually need to find out.
'cause very often it's probably notwhat you might have researched for

(48:17):
hours before that first session.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think that's such a great statementand that can really translate with
clients and in the rehab process, butalso in life and in our professional
life and in running business.
Like something that really stuckout to me, as you said, people who
become too attached to their plan.
I definitely am likethat and I think that.

(48:37):
We need that flexibility and that,being able to be curious, as you say,
yeah.
In life and as new grads enter thefield, is to explore like where we
wanna end up and where we might go.
I have a few last questions.
Are you ready for my lastquestions, Jacqueline?
Yes, absolutely.
And you're going to ask me the samequestion, so we're going to do a

(48:57):
bit of volleying back and forth.
Sure.
But I'll go first.
What does being brave mean to you?
I think that's a great question.
I think to me being brave means having thecourage to do things that are outside of
your comfort zone, because I think thatthings that are outside of your comfort
zone is really the box where you growpersonally and professionally, and it's
about being able to take that fear by thehand and say, let's go fear, let's do it.

(49:22):
That's a great answer.
I love that.
and Carlyn, what doesbeing brave mean to you?
To me, actually, because I ask peoplethis question all the time and don't
answer it all that regularly, it tooka minute to think about this morning.
I wrote something down.
I said, brave means, being brave meanscommitted action towards something
deeply important in the presence of fear.

(49:43):
That fear is a requirement.
for it to be brave.
It's not brave without fear.
And, and that committed actionthat we're moving forward.
And just like you said, taking fearby the hand, like that fear isn't
an indication that we should stop.
sometimes it is actually, and tuning intothat difference, I think that's great.
What is something you'vedone that's brave recently?

(50:06):
so something that I've done that'sbrave recently, so this actually doesn't
have anything to do with professionaldevelopment per se, but I'm terrified
of heights, and, my boyfriend is anavid boulderer, and so he's gotten
me into bouldering, and usually I'llget halfway up the wall, and I'll
Pause, or I'll jump down, and I'mlike, I'm too scared, I can't do it.
but he's really pushed me to climb forthe top, and he's been able to take

(50:29):
me to new heights, literally, and beable to face that fear, and you get
that sense of accomplishment whenyou reach the top, and I think it's a
good metaphor that can be applied inprofessional settings, good for you.
That's great.
And that sounds really fun.
It's a connecting activity for you guys.
yeah, it's been really great.
and what's something bravethat you've done recently?
Right now, I am in the middle ofa few weeks of launching Activate

(50:54):
Vitality, so my main coaching program.
And, it's not feeling right.
it's feeling a bit like sellingsomething in the middle of a lot
of, Uncertainty in the world, right?
Where kind of things are standingright now with a lot of things going on
politically and in terms of the economy.

(51:14):
And so I am bravelybacking off of selling it.
I'm not going to stop selling it, butI'm going to back off there being an
urgency that this needs to be right now.
And that feels brave because, like inthe middle of economic uncertainty,
I need to make money, right?
but at the same time, I feel reallycalled to do more nurturing than selling.

(51:39):
And so I'm going to lean into that.
Yeah, good for you.
I think that's a very bold and bravedecision and running a business for sure.
Thanks.
Oh, yes.
Okay.
to see emerging OTs bea little bit more brave.
Yeah, I think this is a great question.
I think that emerging OTs need tobe able to take risks to believe in

(52:01):
themselves and find that confidence, ifit comes to being in school or classes.
Take that risk to speak out to yourprofessor, ask that question, ask your
preceptor that question, or try somethingon placement that you haven't done
before, or maybe it might look apply forthat job that you think might be outside
of your comfort zone because you neverknow you might get it and it might be

(52:23):
a really great opportunity for that.
Growth to happen.
So yeah, that's good.
And also you reached out to me, askedme a whole bunch of questions, accepted
an invitation to come on my podcastand talk about even more questions.
That was really brave as well.
That's yeah, that I seethat in action in you.
Oh, thank you.
I really appreciate that.

(52:44):
yeah, I think networking and formingthose relationships are really
valuable and really important.
yeah.
And how would you like to seeOTs be a little bit more brave?
I would really like to see OTsbe brave enough to trust in their
capacity to respond in the moment.
I would like to see OTs be braveenough to let go of an agenda and

(53:10):
really walk into a session withtheir client open to what's present
in the moment, that we like to plan.
And I think we touched on this inthe interview, but the, that idea
that sometimes we can get into somuch over planning that we miss.
That, the contextual cues andthat observation of what's

(53:32):
happening in the moment.
And so I think it requires us tostand brave enough in our ability
to manage what comes up in themoment and respond effectively.
That's where that courage happens.
And so I would love to.
Yeah, that courage to maybe let goof your plan a little bit so that you
can respond in time, in the moment,to what exactly is there with that

(53:55):
client in their environment, in theiroccupation, in, in that interaction.
Yeah, I think that's really great.
That really helps foster thatconnection piece and like
that therapeutic use of self.
Yeah.
So if anybody is listening to thisand is intrigued by you and thinking
about you looking for jobs soon andthings like that, how would you like

(54:18):
them to reach out for you or whatwould you want them to reach out about?
Oh, yeah, that's a great question.
So I did create a little Google formfor other OTs or professionals to
connect with me that, We can connectvia email and has a couple questions
of why they're looking to connect.
I love networking.
I love learning about people's stories.
I look seeking professionaldevelopment, obviously, as soon

(54:40):
to be new grad job opportunities.
It's amazing and I'mvery grateful for that.
and just building those professionalrelationships, having great
conversations, and that kind of thing.
Yeah.
That's great.
I love that.
And what kinds of jobs are youinterested in or what kinds of areas
of practice are you most curious about?
Yeah, I don't know exactly thespecific direction I want to go yet

(55:02):
because OT is still so vast to me.
but I am interested in private practice,return to work settings, mental
health areas within private practice.
That's so far.
I don't know yet.
I haven't done all of my placements yet.
So it could be very many more.
it could be less than that.
I'm not sure, but I'm openand I'm, I'm open minded.
I'm open to learn and totake on new experiences.

(55:23):
So that's great.
Yeah.
And that's an area I work in.
So we might have to talk again onceyou're out and they were in the clinical
world, out of the academic world.
Yeah, I would love that.
I would love to keepthis connection going.
and for you as well, so what would youlike people to reach out to you for?
I would really love to talk toOTs who are feeling uncertain.

(55:48):
And, I specifically focus on OTs.
who are established business owners,but truly it can help lots of OTs.
And so I would really love forOTs to reach out for connection.
If they're feeling a little bit uncertainabout direction or where they're
headed or, looking to maybe starta business or shift their business,

(56:11):
activate vitality is for establishedOTs, OT business owners, or mid career
OTs who are in business, and not.
offer is certainly on the table and I'llput a little plug at the end here for
that, but truly I'm open to connectionsto if you need a little pep talk or have
questions and are a little bit uncertainand feel like maybe I might be able to be

(56:32):
helpful, I'd love for them to reach out.
So I will put in, a linkfor a chat with Carlin.
It's a 15 minute In a chat, justquick and let's check in and see
if I can be helpful in that time.
but I'm also open to DMs on Facebook orInstagram, when people have questions.
That sounds great.
And I think for everyone listeningout there, Carlin is an amazing

(56:53):
OT and she's a vast experience.
I'm going to plug you a little bit too.
I've really valued our conversation.
and it's been a really greatpleasure to connect with you.
And I thank you for your time again.
And thanks for being brave to comeon this, podcast and interview me.
I loved the role reversal.
I keep thinking I need to do more soloepisodes where instead of me asking more

(57:14):
questions and not saying as much, whereI can share more of my perspective,
but I just don't do well in monologue.
It just doesn't come asnaturally as in conversation.
So when you reached out, I thought,okay, this is a good way to, to do
that, to do facilitate that sortof more natural social interaction.
Yeah, I know that's fair.
And, it was a really great experienceand I really value all your insight.

(57:35):
So awesome.
best of luck to you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thanks again to Jacqueline forbeing brave enough to come on The
BRAVE OT Podcast and interview me.
That was really fun.
Now if you've been listening and thinking,yeah, I'd like to develop some of those
flexibility and curiosity skills so I canfeel more grounded and make intentional

(57:55):
choices in my business, we should talk.
I am currently inviting OT entrepreneursinto the ACTivate Vitality program.
It's not always open, but it's openright now At the time that this
podcast is released, I had plannedto do interviews with potential OTs
for the program over the next weekor so, but, I'm open to talking.

(58:17):
Just reach out if this is somethingthat interests you and we can figure
out timing and a game plan, workson your timeline and your needs.
I'll put details for bookinga call In the show notes.
Thanks for listening andas always, be brave OTs.