January 7, 2025 • 30 mins
Roenen Ben-Ami, Co-founder of Justt, joins host James Mackey to discuss the challenges of recruiting globally.
He shares his experience of scaling internationally while fostering a cohesive company culture and effectively communicating Justt's value proposition to globally distributed teams.
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Our host James Mackey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host.
James Mackey Got a greatepisode for you today.
We got Ronan Ben-Ami, who's theco-founder of Just.
Ronan.
Welcome to the show, thank you.
Great to be here.
Yeah, it's great to have you.
We have a bit of a backstoryhere.
My company, secure Vision, doesa lot of the recruiting for
Just and London and NorthAmerica.
(00:21):
So I've been working with theteam here at Just a little over
a year helping on a lot ofgo-to-market roles.
So I think that primes thisconversation quite well to talk
about how to build teams, andtoday we're really going to be
dialing into how to buildglobally distributed teams and
what goes into that.
So, ronan, I'm really excitedto talk with you today and, just
to start us off, it'd be greatto share with our audience a
(00:44):
little bit about you.
Where are you based out of?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So I'm based out of the Tel Aviv office.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Nice, nice, and that's actually so.
The company was initiallyfounded in Tel Aviv, right?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, myself and my partner Ophir.
We started the company in TelAviv, then started growing
globally, having a lot of ourcustomers in the US.
We built out our US office aswell as our London-based office.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Nice and actually I haven't had a chance to speak
with you if you're on thefounding story.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It'd be cool to hear that.
What gave you both the idea tostart the company?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So myself, I come from the payment space.
I actually worked in theanti-fraud space and then moved
over to the payment side of theworld of risk and I fell in love
with the world of payments.
To be honest, it's a veryinteresting world.
I've been in this space since2016, and I feel like I'm always
learning something new, comingfrom the anti-fraud side of
(01:46):
things and seeing how that spacewas revolutionized by top
companies in the industry usingtechnology and machine learning.
I learned about the world ofcredit card processing and risk
and compliance and how to builda strong risk and compliance and
merchant screening andmonitoring team.
I actually built those teamsout for a company called Simplex
(02:09):
that does credit cardprocessing for fiat to crypto,
and they were also an anti-fraudsolution.
And then I saw the gap that youcan do a great job stopping
true fraud with a greatanti-fraud solution.
You can do a great job stoppingtrue fraud with a great
anti-fraud solution and you canactually deal with legitimate
(02:31):
merchants that provide theirgoods and services properly if
you screen your merchants withthe right process, but
chargebacks still come in.
It's called friendly fraud,first party misuse or liar buyer
, which is illegitimate claimsby cardholders thinking that
they might have done a mistake.
They forgot what they purchased, someone else in the family
made the purchase or they'reactually trying to get something
for free.
I looked for a solution on themarket for myself.
(02:53):
I was a potential customer andI didn't see a solution that
solved my pain point.
After building a solution thatwas specifically tailored to the
crypto space that savedmillions of dollars a year for
the company I worked for, I sawan opportunity to both tailor
this across industries, acrossmerchants, and use machine
(03:16):
learning to optimize thesolution.
It's something that wasn'tbeing done in the market.
I met Ophir around 2018.
Wasn't being done in the market.
I met Ophir around 2018.
We worked around the idea forabout two years and in 2020, we
went all in on the project andit's been a wild ride to bring
something different to themarket, showing the market that
(03:38):
you don't just need a generic,automated, templated solution,
but, using the right domainexpertise and methodology and
technology, you can build ascaled solution that's tailored
per response to each specificchargeback, using dynamic
arguments and tailoring eachresponse and then using machine
(04:00):
learning to optimize thoseresults, finding where your weak
spots are and running tests toimprove over time.
And yeah, it's been a veryexciting ride working with top
enterprise companies, mid-sizedcompanies and growing out our
partnership end as well.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's been great to be part of the journey as
well for the past year and justto give some people some context
on where you are today, I knowthere's VC backing.
Is it Series B right?
Yes year?
And just to give some peoplesome context on where you are
today, I know there's VC backing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is it Series B right?
Yes, yes, to date, we haveraised Series B.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, and how many employees does JustGirley have?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
About 100, a little over 100 today, I believe.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, that's a significant growth over a
four-year period.
Yes, yes, that's wild.
And so today we wanted to talkabout building globally
distributed teams.
Given that the company wasfounded in Tel Aviv, expanding
your footprint into London andthe United States, I know
there's a lot of lessons learnedthere in terms of being able to
build that globally distributedworkforce.
(05:00):
What are some of the toplessons learned over the past
few years?
Building out an internationalteam.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, on one end, it's really exciting to grow and
to be able to really ourcommercial side of the company
is being grown out in the Londonand US based offices and to be
able to get to that point.
What I always say to the teamis it's so exciting to know you
have the top product in themarket and now we need to help
(05:29):
the world understand what we'redoing here.
That's so different.
I call it the aha moment of whyJust is so different in the
market and how you can helppotential customers understand
that.
But to get to that point is soexciting, but there's a lot of
challenges that come along withthat.
But to get to that point is soexciting, but there's a lot of
challenges that come along withthat.
We invested a lot on buildingthe right culture when we were
(05:50):
just a television-based companyand as we grew out the London
and US office and we even haveseveral people that are remote
we wanted them to be part of thejust culture and who we are and
what makes us unique.
And that's not an easy task,especially because you're in
(06:10):
different time zones, distance,face time, getting with the
actual teams and just the levelof collaboration you need to be
successful.
It takes a lot of investment inbuilding those connections
between the teams to get to thatlevel.
I always use the example thatwhen Ophira and I started the
(06:32):
company, all the decisions werebeing made by the two of us.
We'd get on a call, we'dcollaborate and we'd make quick
decisions and we'd move veryfast.
Today, it's about how we helpthe teams make the decisions and
how we help them work togetherso that they can crack the code
of the challenging decisions weneed to make within the coming
(06:52):
years and the growth we'relooking to do and what we've
already done.
There's a lot of challengesahead of us and we want the team
to be the decision makers andbe hands-on making it a success.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah for sure, and from a culture perspective, I'm
excited to get into specificallywhat aspects of the culture
need to be part.
What do you really dial in on?
My experience with Just hasbeen the company is incredibly
data-driven in decision-makingWithin the recruiting process.
(07:27):
I don't think we made a singledecision without looking at the
data first, particularly when itcame to role requirements and
specifically, too, if it came totweaking role requirements.
I think every time we made anykind of shift, it was evaluating
folks in the metrics of therecruitment process, everything
(07:48):
from the interview metrics tothat funnel down to the size of
the candidate pool and thespecific skill sets.
Looking at industries andlooking at adjacent industries
and how that would impact.
Looking at comp, how that typeof stuff would impact the size
of the talent pool.
What was really cool about Just2is once we put together all of
the data and we'd present okay,here are our options.
(08:10):
Right, if we make this tweakwith the data, this is how it
impacts the size of thecandidate pool or whatever it
was.
I'm just using the candidatepool as an example.
Just usually got your teamwould get back to us within 24
or 48 hours and it would be likeeven if it was a big decision,
right, like when your team hasthe data in front of them, it's
fast and we were able to correctcourse and move very quickly,
(08:33):
which you start to see.
Sometimes that starts to breakdown a little bit when you open
up multiple offices in differenttime zones, but I've been
impressed Just has always beenvery fast at making adjustments
when they have the data in frontof them.
So I'm wondering to me that'swhat stands out.
When we talk about culture, Isee a very analytical,
data-driven culture that movesfast.
(08:55):
So I'm curious.
There's, of course, a lot moreto that, but from my seat where
I stand, that's something thatstood out to me about your
culture.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, it's true.
We really want to have aculture around that we need to
move fast.
It's okay to make mistakes, buthow do we learn from our
mistakes or how do we learn fromour experiences in general so
that we can be better?
And there's a lot of positionsthat we have hired or were
(09:22):
hiring that they were the firsttime we ever hired for those
specific positions.
So we had a vision of what wewanted when we first started
hiring for the position.
But as you move along you learnwhat great looks like for just
and what will make a successfulcandidate for that specific
position.
And many times when you firststart you're not exactly sure
(09:45):
what that looks like.
So that's what's so great aboutwhen you are hiring to have
that hiring team whether it beour internal team that we're
working with that's part of thehiring process or with your team
to figure out you know whatdoes great look like for us and
what are we learning along theway that we can learn from each
other and collaborate.
(10:05):
So I remember in the beginning,when we first hire, we would
have everybody, would meet theindividuals, and then we just
write our, write our feedback,and there wasn't enough
collaboration between us and wesaid, wait a minute, like then
we'd get to the end, and we'relike, oh yeah, but I read your
feedback, I read your feedback.
But once you put us all in aroom and we talk about our
(10:25):
feedback, that's when the magichappens.
And wait, oh yeah, I canactually learn from you of.
I saw that too.
What does that actually mean?
Do we want something like thatin that position?
And that's where it becomesreally interesting is stopping
along the way and communicatingwith one another of what we're
seeing.
Yeah, I think that's a keypiece.
What you mentioned is movingfast and learning from what
(10:48):
we're seeing along the way.
It's actually one of our corevalues.
We call them our coreprinciples here at.
Just One of them is be the best, and that core principle is
around learning from what we'vedone and improving as we go.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, and I think it's.
Also there's a lot of nuancewhen it comes to moving fast.
Right, there are some decisionswhere it's when you clearly
have the data in front of you,it's make okay, now we have more
information.
Based on that information,let's make either continue with
the same decision or make a newone, but let's just look at the
data.
Then there's other things whenit comes to standards, where it
(11:26):
makes sense to hold on to thatstandard, opposed to cutting
corners and bringing, like, thewrong person on board.
And so I think a good executiveteam, you always move as fast
as you can, but if you need toleave a role open for a few
months, do it until you get tothat confidence level.
It's never 100% confidence inhiring a person, right, so I'm
going to have the perfectbackground, but there's still a
(11:48):
ton of other variables, likewhere they might be in their
life or anything else that couldthrow off the success.
But we should be able to get toa 90% confidence rating and I
don't think we should ever waverin that or say we need to move
fast so we can hire tomorrow,because ultimately, getting the
wrong person in the seat can setthe company back several
quarters.
It can be a huge financialdrain, a huge focus drain and a
(12:10):
huge opportunity cost and it'smassive.
How just has done really well.
Hiring over the particularlyover the past year since I've
been involved is very fast tomake decisions on data, but not
lowering standards, regardlessof how difficult a search is.
(12:31):
We've hired what a manager inthe us market and we had
incredibly high standards.
It happened to get filledreally fast.
But there's been other searcheswhere it it took longer.
It took reaching out to peopleexhausting a candidate pool,
saying okay, there's literallynobody else in this market we
can reach out to, shifting,making a new decision based off
(12:52):
the data, reaching out to thatcandidate pool and tweaking and
tweaking and not lowering ourstandards until we can make the
higher, and sometimes that meantkeeping the role open longer
than we wanted to.
But ultimately that's going togive just the best opportunity
to take advantage of the marketopportunity that you have right
now.
So I think that's another piece.
It's like your standards shouldbe ridiculously high.
(13:14):
Even if you're hiring the rightway, hiring should be hard.
If it's not hard, then you'renot.
If you're trying to recruit thebest people in the market, the
absolute best people getting thebest people be hard.
If it's not hard, then you'renot.
You're not like if you'retrying to recruit the best
people in the market, like theabsolute best people getting the
best people is hard.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And do you know what great looks like Cause for each
position.
What great looks like looksdifferent, and that's what I
always think about when we'rehiring for a specific position.
Do we know what great lookslike for this position?
Have we seen great before inthis position and if so, what
does it look like and how can wediscover it during the hiring
(13:47):
process?
And exactly what you said don'tlower your standards.
And there's been multiple timeswhere it's defeating when you
go through so many interviewsand you're not finding that
great, but when you do find it,you're like that's what we're
looking for and they're notfinding that great, but when you
do find it, that's what we'relooking for and they're few and
far between.
Yes, but when you bring on great, you see the difference.
(14:10):
You see how fast they ramp up,how fast they get going, how
fast they become part of theteam.
It's worth the wait, yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I think there's a misconception sometimes with
executives when it comes tohiring.
They're like, okay, if it'sreally hard and it's grueling
and it's taking a lot of time,that means something's broken,
and so the analogy that I liketo use is winning the Super Bowl
or the World Cup.
Is that easy?
No, it's hard as shit.
It's incredibly freaking hard.
The difference is, if you'rereally good at it, it's hard, if
(14:41):
you're not good at it, it'simpossible.
You're just not going to hide,and so, again, it's like the
standards should always beincredibly high, and sometimes
that's hard to.
As startup executives, in myexperience, and I'm sure yours
as well, there's this immensekind of pressure to move fast
and take advantage of theopportunity today, but sticking
to your guns and being reallydisciplined when it comes to
(15:04):
building a team is so freakingimportant.
Otherwise, you're just theheadaches.
It's like the headaches thatyou'll have six months a year
down the road.
Exactly.
They can be life-threatening.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, definitely.
That's also what I say a lot tothe managers that are hiring is
think about the individual thatwill hire.
That will make your life easierbecause you have enough on your
plate as a manager and how muchyou need to get done.
You need to make sure your teamis getting done.
You want to bring additionalpeople on the team that are
going to make that easier foryou and a lot of the times it's
(15:37):
hiring somebody that you thinkis stronger than yourself as a
manager too, and not to beintimidated to do that and
understand what your weak spotsare and who's going to be in
part of your team.
That can make the team moresuccessful.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, for sure.
That actually brings up a goodquestion.
When you look at hiring for afunction in any part of your
business, how much weight do youput on looking at your
manager's strengths to round outtheir abilities?
Is that a core part of how youthink through it?
Okay, we have a manager who'sreally strong in these areas, so
we need somebody to come in andhelp supplement maybe the parts
(16:13):
that they're a little weaker at.
I'm just wondering how muchthat thought process happens.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, I could say on a personal level, that's
something that I've done myself.
I also say that to a lot offounders that are looking for
their partners.
A lot of times, people comewith great ideas and looking for
their partner to build theirgreat idea.
That's how we started.
Just, I had a really excitingidea and a lot of domain
knowledge on how to do it, and Iknew what I was really strong
(16:42):
at and I knew I needed to find apartner that had the things
that I wasn't strong at, andit's something that you have to
ground yourself and think about.
What you're really good at,what you really like doing too,
what you want to focus on in thecompany and who do you need to
bring alongside with you to makethe company a success.
And that's how I was able tochoose my partner and how we've
(17:05):
been so successful together is,of course, the personal
relationship, but also we eachknow what we're really good at,
and it's something I give thosetips to hiring managers that I
work with who are looking forthe next person on their team,
but it's really up to themanager in the end.
Right, what do they need?
I can't make those decisions forthe manager.
I trust the manager that I'vehired.
(17:26):
You hire the right managerExactly.
He'll build their team.
I'm there to help him, tosupport him, and he can bounce
ideas off of me and the rest ofthe team, but in the end it's up
to that manager who he wants toadd to the team and if it's
something that he feels canstrengthen a weakness that's on
the team at the moment.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah for sure, I guess.
My next question, just to stickto our theme on building a
global team, what would you sayis were there any mistakes along
the way, or biggest lessonslearned, or what was the most
challenging piece?
And I can chime in here too, onmy own experience as well.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, mistakes.
Of course we're still makingmistakes, right, that's part of
building a startup.
You can't be afraid to makemistakes.
The question is do you learnfrom your mistakes?
I think, in the end, what I've Icould say on my plate is
believing in the team that youhire and handing over the keys
to your team.
Which I'm learning andconstantly working on is how do
(18:31):
you enable your team to be thedecision makers and for them to
make them feel that the weightis on their shoulders, the
responsibility?
They are the ones that areaccountable.
Of course, I'm there to supportand I'm there to help, but they
are the decision makers.
They are accountable for theirareas of the business and
(18:52):
sometimes you have to let theball drop too.
Even if you see that it mightdrop, you have to let the ball
drop and let your team makemistakes.
So, not being afraid to let goso the team can learn and work
together.
Which connects back to what wespoke about before is I see a
lot of the US and the UK team.
(19:13):
They have to work with a lot ofthe team members in the Tel
Aviv office and they need tocollaborate together, and I love
being an ear to hear that theywant to talk to me about certain
things, but they need to worktogether to figure out how to
solve those problems.
Which is hard and it's what I'mseeing now is they do need
(19:35):
FaceTime and trying to figureout how we can give them more
face time, because just havingtime on Zoom together is many
times it's not enough,especially the ones that are
working quite a lot together andmaking challenging choices
together.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, I actually I believe in a lot.
One thing we haven't talkedabout today is on in-person,
in-office versus remote culture,and I'm actually I'm a big
advocate of in-office.
My opinion on remote hasactually changed considerably
over the past five years I thinkI was, I suppose, in 2021, 2022
, when the market was exploding,there was, I think, probably in
(20:14):
some cases remote might've madesense, depending on the growth
opportunity for a company andhow fast they needed to move and
balancing how much they neededin office, Like what was going
to give the company a biggerlift at that point in time when
the market was insane and talentwas very hard to come by.
But I do think that there arecertain aspects of in-person
that you just you can't have.
You're not going to get remotelike the face-to-face.
(20:36):
There's just some behavioralaspects of working together as a
team.
It is, everybody says, kind ofcollaboration strategy, it's
that.
But there's also just like morehuman elements that I think
people don't emphasize enough.
Like, one of my customers was afounder of a company called
lending home, which is a prettybig company in the united states
big scale, it's like a billiondollar valuation.
Now he started another companycalled Sunday.
(20:58):
He did it.
He started a company with aco-founder Airbnb.
He raised over like 150 million.
So this guy he's repeat foundervery successful companies and
he talks about like the conceptsof like loyalty and team
building and having each other'sbacks and being able to pick up
slack when somebody's out ofoffice.
That type of dynamic whereyou're really fighting together
as a team.
There's this level of closenessthat you get with your team
(21:23):
where you really see them as thewhole person versus the face on
Zoom.
That does have a big impact onperformance and I've seen that
and I really do value it.
And then there's also the stufflike you'll talk with people in
different departments that younever would have.
The conversations never wouldhave happened on zoom.
You go out to lunch and you'retalking about problems and
(21:43):
you're solving problems.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
There's all of those types of conversations that
occur in person that just neverhappen on zoom yeah, that's a
great point and to add to that,I'll even go down that path of
when we first started thecompany, I had my own office and
I'd have a lot of meetings andI'd sit in my office and I'd
come out of the office and talk,but I'd see most of the people
like around the office and in myoffice during meetings.
(22:06):
And at a certain point wedecided as an executive team to
step outside of the office andsit in the open space and today
I sit in the open space.
Of course, when I'm in meetings, I go into an office for
meetings, but I sit in the openspace with the rest of the team.
Because what I realized is,first of all, I want to be part
of the team and I want them tofeel like I'm accessible.
(22:27):
There's a lot of ideas theywant to bounce off of me,
questions they want to ask.
It's something I always say iskeep asking questions until you
ask questions.
We didn't ask ourselves andthat's how we're going to
improve and I feel like itreally works in the Tel Aviv
office and I was like, how do Imake that happen in the offices
that, yeah, I fly.
(22:47):
I meet the team every few monthsto see the teams in the other
offices, but I don't get thesame amount of FaceTime and
that's why I keep telling theteams in the other offices is
feel like I'm in the office withyou and you have a question.
Just throw the message in Slack.
I'm there, I'll respond.
We could jump on a quick call.
(23:07):
We need a meeting.
We'll jump on a quick meeting,but we have to use these lines
of communication as though we'rein the office together.
If not, things are just going todrag on misunderstandings of
what actually needs to be doneor what is the information that
was explained, because there's alot of details in our solution.
(23:28):
I always say that our solutionis really domain expertise
combined with technology andthat's where the magic happens.
Domain expertise combined withtechnology and that's where the
magic happens.
And some people come withdomain knowledge in our space
before joining Just and othersdon't.
But we pick up that they'repeople.
They can learn and learn reallyfast.
But you need to not be afraidto ask questions in order to get
(23:50):
up to speed really quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, I think that all is a little easier in person
.
And actually, what's funny is,before we hit record, I was
telling you about one of ourcustomers with SimilarWeb and
you.
Just what we're talking aboutreminds me of a conversation
that I was I had with SimilarWebwhen we were scaling out their
team.
Donna Dror, I don't know if youare familiar with the team over
there, but I think she actuallystarted as like when they were
(24:13):
early stage, as either accountexecutive, I think, or sales
manager, and it was one of herfirst jobs in tech and by the
time they IPO, she was generalmanager of North America, like
overseeing all of the NorthAmerica revenue.
Just an incredibly sharpexecutive, right Like one of the
best I've ever worked with, andshe was obsessed with just
(24:34):
making sure her team had enoughface time and at that point they
were like a global team and attimes she was also meeting with
folks in Europe and Tel Aviv andshe was bouncing around, but
she always found a way to get infront of her team just because
that's where, regardless, youcan tell your team.
Yeah, hit me up on Slack, butsometimes they may not just like
the level of detail, the typesof questions like they don't
(24:56):
want to bother you.
They're like oh, ron has somuch on his plate, so just
getting in person and honestlyit's my experience just running
my company there's times whereI'm not getting as much FaceTime
as I would like to.
There's been situations where Ihave an employee in a certain
if they are remote, because westill do have some folks that
(25:18):
are remote Getting on a planejust to go see them right, just
for an afternoon, that kind ofstuff.
Even if you just do it once ortwice, it still makes a big
impression in people's minds.
Right, taking the time, findinga way to get in front of them,
oh, yeah, for sure, and we dothat both myself and Ophir.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
We've been doing that a lot, making sure that whether
we're going to a conference orgoing to meetings abroad, we'll
always stop in the offices andif not, then we'll make a flight
specifically for meetings withthe teams and sessions with the
teams.
But what we're seeing now isit's not enough that just for us
to fly in and we need to alsogive the teams chances, more
(25:53):
chances to meet each other andstarting to decide strategically
who are the right people thatyou want to fly to meet each
other face to face so that theycan work better together.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And that does add a layer of complexity, with global
teams too, right, becauseeverybody's so busy, yeah.
And then you look at yourmanagers right, and it's okay,
they're managing a function,they're hiring for their team,
they're operating in multipletime zones, or at least need to
figure out how to work inmultiple time zones.
And then you have the travelelement.
That's another element, that'sanother thing.
That's, it can be verychallenging to balance and
(26:27):
figure out, like what the rightbalance is there, like,
particularly at a stage whereit's like you're growing quickly
and if you doubled in headcountover a couple years, it's
pretty tricky to do that.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh yeah, for sure it's exciting that the team
grows, but you have to be awareof the challenges and make sure
you have people on the groundand in the different locations
that you trust and you feel areresonating the Just culture and
can help others that join thecompany understand what Just is
(26:55):
all about.
So we and I say it now I feellike when I visit each office, I
feel like each office today isan extension of the just culture
, but in its own way.
Each office has a verydifferent vibe in some way, but
also very similar that they'reall just but they're all unique
in their own way of theatmosphere that has been created
(27:19):
there.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, yeah, for sure, For sure, Ronan.
This has been a lot of fun.
We're coming up on time here.
So I just wanted to say thankyou so much for joining me on
the show today.
This was incredibly valuable.
I know the executives andreally everyone tuning in is
going to be able to learn a lotfrom the lessons that you've
learned building just and I'mincredibly bullish on just
(27:41):
future just based on the caliberof people you do have on the
team.
At the end of the day, if you'rea tech company, people build
product right, Domain expertise,abilities, intelligence all of
those types of things Workingtogether as a cohesive team.
Literally nothing great hasever been built without people
working together.
That's an accurate statementlike nothing ever right, and so
(28:01):
I think Just is doing a greatjob pulling in the right people.
Clearly it's working and, again, like your advice is incredibly
valuable.
So thanks for sharing it today,Thanks for having me.
This was fun.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun andhey for everybody tuning in.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we'll talk to you next
time, Take care.
Hello, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host.
James Mackey Got a greatepisode for you today.
We got Ronan Ben-Ami, who's theco-founder of Just.
Ronan.
Welcome to the show, thank you.
Great to be here.
Yeah, it's great to have you.
We have a bit of a backstoryhere.
My company, secure Vision, doesa lot of the recruiting for
Just and London and NorthAmerica.
(00:21):
So I've been working with theteam here at Just a little over
a year helping on a lot ofgo-to-market roles.
So I think that primes thisconversation quite well to talk
about how to build teams, andtoday we're really going to be
dialing into how to buildglobally distributed teams and
what goes into that.
So, ronan, I'm really excitedto talk with you today and, just
to start us off, it'd be greatto share with our audience a
(00:44):
little bit about you.
Where are you based out of?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So I'm based out of the Tel Aviv office.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Nice, nice, and that's actually so.
The company was initiallyfounded in Tel Aviv, right?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, myself and my partner Ophir.
We started the company in TelAviv, then started growing
globally, having a lot of ourcustomers in the US.
We built out our US office aswell as our London-based office.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Nice and actually I haven't had a chance to speak
with you if you're on thefounding story.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It'd be cool to hear that.
What gave you both the idea tostart the company?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So myself, I come from the payment space.
I actually worked in theanti-fraud space and then moved
over to the payment side of theworld of risk and I fell in love
with the world of payments.
To be honest, it's a veryinteresting world.
I've been in this space since2016, and I feel like I'm always
learning something new, comingfrom the anti-fraud side of
(01:46):
things and seeing how that spacewas revolutionized by top
companies in the industry usingtechnology and machine learning.
I learned about the world ofcredit card processing and risk
and compliance and how to builda strong risk and compliance and
merchant screening andmonitoring team.
I actually built those teamsout for a company called Simplex
(02:09):
that does credit cardprocessing for fiat to crypto,
and they were also an anti-fraudsolution.
And then I saw the gap that youcan do a great job stopping
true fraud with a greatanti-fraud solution.
You can do a great job stoppingtrue fraud with a great
anti-fraud solution and you canactually deal with legitimate
(02:31):
merchants that provide theirgoods and services properly if
you screen your merchants withthe right process, but
chargebacks still come in.
It's called friendly fraud,first party misuse or liar buyer
, which is illegitimate claimsby cardholders thinking that
they might have done a mistake.
They forgot what they purchased, someone else in the family
made the purchase or they'reactually trying to get something
for free.
I looked for a solution on themarket for myself.
(02:53):
I was a potential customer andI didn't see a solution that
solved my pain point.
After building a solution thatwas specifically tailored to the
crypto space that savedmillions of dollars a year for
the company I worked for, I sawan opportunity to both tailor
this across industries, acrossmerchants, and use machine
(03:16):
learning to optimize thesolution.
It's something that wasn'tbeing done in the market.
I met Ophir around 2018.
Wasn't being done in the market.
I met Ophir around 2018.
We worked around the idea forabout two years and in 2020, we
went all in on the project andit's been a wild ride to bring
something different to themarket, showing the market that
(03:38):
you don't just need a generic,automated, templated solution,
but, using the right domainexpertise and methodology and
technology, you can build ascaled solution that's tailored
per response to each specificchargeback, using dynamic
arguments and tailoring eachresponse and then using machine
(04:00):
learning to optimize thoseresults, finding where your weak
spots are and running tests toimprove over time.
And yeah, it's been a veryexciting ride working with top
enterprise companies, mid-sizedcompanies and growing out our
partnership end as well.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's been great to be part of the journey as
well for the past year and justto give some people some context
on where you are today, I knowthere's VC backing.
Is it Series B right?
Yes year?
And just to give some peoplesome context on where you are
today, I know there's VC backing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is it Series B right?
Yes, yes, to date, we haveraised Series B.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, and how many employees does JustGirley have?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
About 100, a little over 100 today, I believe.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, that's a significant growth over a
four-year period.
Yes, yes, that's wild.
And so today we wanted to talkabout building globally
distributed teams.
Given that the company wasfounded in Tel Aviv, expanding
your footprint into London andthe United States, I know
there's a lot of lessons learnedthere in terms of being able to
build that globally distributedworkforce.
(05:00):
What are some of the toplessons learned over the past
few years?
Building out an internationalteam.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, on one end, it's really exciting to grow and
to be able to really ourcommercial side of the company
is being grown out in the Londonand US based offices and to be
able to get to that point.
What I always say to the teamis it's so exciting to know you
have the top product in themarket and now we need to help
(05:29):
the world understand what we'redoing here.
That's so different.
I call it the aha moment of whyJust is so different in the
market and how you can helppotential customers understand
that.
But to get to that point is soexciting, but there's a lot of
challenges that come along withthat.
But to get to that point is soexciting, but there's a lot of
challenges that come along withthat.
We invested a lot on buildingthe right culture when we were
(05:50):
just a television-based companyand as we grew out the London
and US office and we even haveseveral people that are remote
we wanted them to be part of thejust culture and who we are and
what makes us unique.
And that's not an easy task,especially because you're in
(06:10):
different time zones, distance,face time, getting with the
actual teams and just the levelof collaboration you need to be
successful.
It takes a lot of investment inbuilding those connections
between the teams to get to thatlevel.
I always use the example thatwhen Ophira and I started the
(06:32):
company, all the decisions werebeing made by the two of us.
We'd get on a call, we'dcollaborate and we'd make quick
decisions and we'd move veryfast.
Today, it's about how we helpthe teams make the decisions and
how we help them work togetherso that they can crack the code
of the challenging decisions weneed to make within the coming
(06:52):
years and the growth we'relooking to do and what we've
already done.
There's a lot of challengesahead of us and we want the team
to be the decision makers andbe hands-on making it a success.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah for sure, and from a culture perspective, I'm
excited to get into specificallywhat aspects of the culture
need to be part.
What do you really dial in on?
My experience with Just hasbeen the company is incredibly
data-driven in decision-makingWithin the recruiting process.
(07:27):
I don't think we made a singledecision without looking at the
data first, particularly when itcame to role requirements and
specifically, too, if it came totweaking role requirements.
I think every time we made anykind of shift, it was evaluating
folks in the metrics of therecruitment process, everything
(07:48):
from the interview metrics tothat funnel down to the size of
the candidate pool and thespecific skill sets.
Looking at industries andlooking at adjacent industries
and how that would impact.
Looking at comp, how that typeof stuff would impact the size
of the talent pool.
What was really cool about Just2is once we put together all of
the data and we'd present okay,here are our options.
(08:10):
Right, if we make this tweakwith the data, this is how it
impacts the size of thecandidate pool or whatever it
was.
I'm just using the candidatepool as an example.
Just usually got your teamwould get back to us within 24
or 48 hours and it would be likeeven if it was a big decision,
right, like when your team hasthe data in front of them, it's
fast and we were able to correctcourse and move very quickly,
(08:33):
which you start to see.
Sometimes that starts to breakdown a little bit when you open
up multiple offices in differenttime zones, but I've been
impressed Just has always beenvery fast at making adjustments
when they have the data in frontof them.
So I'm wondering to me that'swhat stands out.
When we talk about culture, Isee a very analytical,
data-driven culture that movesfast.
(08:55):
So I'm curious.
There's, of course, a lot moreto that, but from my seat where
I stand, that's something thatstood out to me about your
culture.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, it's true.
We really want to have aculture around that we need to
move fast.
It's okay to make mistakes, buthow do we learn from our
mistakes or how do we learn fromour experiences in general so
that we can be better?
And there's a lot of positionsthat we have hired or were
(09:22):
hiring that they were the firsttime we ever hired for those
specific positions.
So we had a vision of what wewanted when we first started
hiring for the position.
But as you move along you learnwhat great looks like for just
and what will make a successfulcandidate for that specific
position.
And many times when you firststart you're not exactly sure
(09:45):
what that looks like.
So that's what's so great aboutwhen you are hiring to have
that hiring team whether it beour internal team that we're
working with that's part of thehiring process or with your team
to figure out you know whatdoes great look like for us and
what are we learning along theway that we can learn from each
other and collaborate.
(10:05):
So I remember in the beginning,when we first hire, we would
have everybody, would meet theindividuals, and then we just
write our, write our feedback,and there wasn't enough
collaboration between us and wesaid, wait a minute, like then
we'd get to the end, and we'relike, oh yeah, but I read your
feedback, I read your feedback.
But once you put us all in aroom and we talk about our
(10:25):
feedback, that's when the magichappens.
And wait, oh yeah, I canactually learn from you of.
I saw that too.
What does that actually mean?
Do we want something like thatin that position?
And that's where it becomesreally interesting is stopping
along the way and communicatingwith one another of what we're
seeing.
Yeah, I think that's a keypiece.
What you mentioned is movingfast and learning from what
(10:48):
we're seeing along the way.
It's actually one of our corevalues.
We call them our coreprinciples here at.
Just One of them is be the best, and that core principle is
around learning from what we'vedone and improving as we go.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, and I think it's.
Also there's a lot of nuancewhen it comes to moving fast.
Right, there are some decisionswhere it's when you clearly
have the data in front of you,it's make okay, now we have more
information.
Based on that information,let's make either continue with
the same decision or make a newone, but let's just look at the
data.
Then there's other things whenit comes to standards, where it
(11:26):
makes sense to hold on to thatstandard, opposed to cutting
corners and bringing, like, thewrong person on board.
And so I think a good executiveteam, you always move as fast
as you can, but if you need toleave a role open for a few
months, do it until you get tothat confidence level.
It's never 100% confidence inhiring a person, right, so I'm
going to have the perfectbackground, but there's still a
(11:48):
ton of other variables, likewhere they might be in their
life or anything else that couldthrow off the success.
But we should be able to get toa 90% confidence rating and I
don't think we should ever waverin that or say we need to move
fast so we can hire tomorrow,because ultimately, getting the
wrong person in the seat can setthe company back several
quarters.
It can be a huge financialdrain, a huge focus drain and a
(12:10):
huge opportunity cost and it'smassive.
How just has done really well.
Hiring over the particularlyover the past year since I've
been involved is very fast tomake decisions on data, but not
lowering standards, regardlessof how difficult a search is.
(12:31):
We've hired what a manager inthe us market and we had
incredibly high standards.
It happened to get filledreally fast.
But there's been other searcheswhere it it took longer.
It took reaching out to peopleexhausting a candidate pool,
saying okay, there's literallynobody else in this market we
can reach out to, shifting,making a new decision based off
(12:52):
the data, reaching out to thatcandidate pool and tweaking and
tweaking and not lowering ourstandards until we can make the
higher, and sometimes that meantkeeping the role open longer
than we wanted to.
But ultimately that's going togive just the best opportunity
to take advantage of the marketopportunity that you have right
now.
So I think that's another piece.
It's like your standards shouldbe ridiculously high.
(13:14):
Even if you're hiring the rightway, hiring should be hard.
If it's not hard, then you'renot.
If you're trying to recruit thebest people in the market, the
absolute best people getting thebest people be hard.
If it's not hard, then you'renot.
You're not like if you'retrying to recruit the best
people in the market, like theabsolute best people getting the
best people is hard.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And do you know what great looks like Cause for each
position.
What great looks like looksdifferent, and that's what I
always think about when we'rehiring for a specific position.
Do we know what great lookslike for this position?
Have we seen great before inthis position and if so, what
does it look like and how can wediscover it during the hiring
(13:47):
process?
And exactly what you said don'tlower your standards.
And there's been multiple timeswhere it's defeating when you
go through so many interviewsand you're not finding that
great, but when you do find it,you're like that's what we're
looking for and they're notfinding that great, but when you
do find it, that's what we'relooking for and they're few and
far between.
Yes, but when you bring on great, you see the difference.
(14:10):
You see how fast they ramp up,how fast they get going, how
fast they become part of theteam.
It's worth the wait, yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I think there's a misconception sometimes with
executives when it comes tohiring.
They're like, okay, if it'sreally hard and it's grueling
and it's taking a lot of time,that means something's broken,
and so the analogy that I liketo use is winning the Super Bowl
or the World Cup.
Is that easy?
No, it's hard as shit.
It's incredibly freaking hard.
The difference is, if you'rereally good at it, it's hard, if
(14:41):
you're not good at it, it'simpossible.
You're just not going to hide,and so, again, it's like the
standards should always beincredibly high, and sometimes
that's hard to.
As startup executives, in myexperience, and I'm sure yours
as well, there's this immensekind of pressure to move fast
and take advantage of theopportunity today, but sticking
to your guns and being reallydisciplined when it comes to
(15:04):
building a team is so freakingimportant.
Otherwise, you're just theheadaches.
It's like the headaches thatyou'll have six months a year
down the road.
Exactly.
They can be life-threatening.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, definitely.
That's also what I say a lot tothe managers that are hiring is
think about the individual thatwill hire.
That will make your life easierbecause you have enough on your
plate as a manager and how muchyou need to get done.
You need to make sure your teamis getting done.
You want to bring additionalpeople on the team that are
going to make that easier foryou and a lot of the times it's
(15:37):
hiring somebody that you thinkis stronger than yourself as a
manager too, and not to beintimidated to do that and
understand what your weak spotsare and who's going to be in
part of your team.
That can make the team moresuccessful.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, for sure.
That actually brings up a goodquestion.
When you look at hiring for afunction in any part of your
business, how much weight do youput on looking at your
manager's strengths to round outtheir abilities?
Is that a core part of how youthink through it?
Okay, we have a manager who'sreally strong in these areas, so
we need somebody to come in andhelp supplement maybe the parts
(16:13):
that they're a little weaker at.
I'm just wondering how muchthat thought process happens.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, I could say on a personal level, that's
something that I've done myself.
I also say that to a lot offounders that are looking for
their partners.
A lot of times, people comewith great ideas and looking for
their partner to build theirgreat idea.
That's how we started.
Just, I had a really excitingidea and a lot of domain
knowledge on how to do it, and Iknew what I was really strong
(16:42):
at and I knew I needed to find apartner that had the things
that I wasn't strong at, andit's something that you have to
ground yourself and think about.
What you're really good at,what you really like doing too,
what you want to focus on in thecompany and who do you need to
bring alongside with you to makethe company a success.
And that's how I was able tochoose my partner and how we've
(17:05):
been so successful together is,of course, the personal
relationship, but also we eachknow what we're really good at,
and it's something I give thosetips to hiring managers that I
work with who are looking forthe next person on their team,
but it's really up to themanager in the end.
Right, what do they need?
I can't make those decisions forthe manager.
I trust the manager that I'vehired.
(17:26):
You hire the right managerExactly.
He'll build their team.
I'm there to help him, tosupport him, and he can bounce
ideas off of me and the rest ofthe team, but in the end it's up
to that manager who he wants toadd to the team and if it's
something that he feels canstrengthen a weakness that's on
the team at the moment.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah for sure, I guess.
My next question, just to stickto our theme on building a
global team, what would you sayis were there any mistakes along
the way, or biggest lessonslearned, or what was the most
challenging piece?
And I can chime in here too, onmy own experience as well.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, mistakes.
Of course we're still makingmistakes, right, that's part of
building a startup.
You can't be afraid to makemistakes.
The question is do you learnfrom your mistakes?
I think, in the end, what I've Icould say on my plate is
believing in the team that youhire and handing over the keys
to your team.
Which I'm learning andconstantly working on is how do
(18:31):
you enable your team to be thedecision makers and for them to
make them feel that the weightis on their shoulders, the
responsibility?
They are the ones that areaccountable.
Of course, I'm there to supportand I'm there to help, but they
are the decision makers.
They are accountable for theirareas of the business and
(18:52):
sometimes you have to let theball drop too.
Even if you see that it mightdrop, you have to let the ball
drop and let your team makemistakes.
So, not being afraid to let goso the team can learn and work
together.
Which connects back to what wespoke about before is I see a
lot of the US and the UK team.
(19:13):
They have to work with a lot ofthe team members in the Tel
Aviv office and they need tocollaborate together, and I love
being an ear to hear that theywant to talk to me about certain
things, but they need to worktogether to figure out how to
solve those problems.
Which is hard and it's what I'mseeing now is they do need
(19:35):
FaceTime and trying to figureout how we can give them more
face time, because just havingtime on Zoom together is many
times it's not enough,especially the ones that are
working quite a lot together andmaking challenging choices
together.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, I actually I believe in a lot.
One thing we haven't talkedabout today is on in-person,
in-office versus remote culture,and I'm actually I'm a big
advocate of in-office.
My opinion on remote hasactually changed considerably
over the past five years I thinkI was, I suppose, in 2021, 2022
, when the market was exploding,there was, I think, probably in
(20:14):
some cases remote might've madesense, depending on the growth
opportunity for a company andhow fast they needed to move and
balancing how much they neededin office, Like what was going
to give the company a biggerlift at that point in time when
the market was insane and talentwas very hard to come by.
But I do think that there arecertain aspects of in-person
that you just you can't have.
You're not going to get remotelike the face-to-face.
(20:36):
There's just some behavioralaspects of working together as a
team.
It is, everybody says, kind ofcollaboration strategy, it's
that.
But there's also just like morehuman elements that I think
people don't emphasize enough.
Like, one of my customers was afounder of a company called
lending home, which is a prettybig company in the united states
big scale, it's like a billiondollar valuation.
Now he started another companycalled Sunday.
(20:58):
He did it.
He started a company with aco-founder Airbnb.
He raised over like 150 million.
So this guy he's repeat foundervery successful companies and
he talks about like the conceptsof like loyalty and team
building and having each other'sbacks and being able to pick up
slack when somebody's out ofoffice.
That type of dynamic whereyou're really fighting together
as a team.
There's this level of closenessthat you get with your team
(21:23):
where you really see them as thewhole person versus the face on
Zoom.
That does have a big impact onperformance and I've seen that
and I really do value it.
And then there's also the stufflike you'll talk with people in
different departments that younever would have.
The conversations never wouldhave happened on zoom.
You go out to lunch and you'retalking about problems and
(21:43):
you're solving problems.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
There's all of those types of conversations that
occur in person that just neverhappen on zoom yeah, that's a
great point and to add to that,I'll even go down that path of
when we first started thecompany, I had my own office and
I'd have a lot of meetings andI'd sit in my office and I'd
come out of the office and talk,but I'd see most of the people
like around the office and in myoffice during meetings.
(22:06):
And at a certain point wedecided as an executive team to
step outside of the office andsit in the open space and today
I sit in the open space.
Of course, when I'm in meetings, I go into an office for
meetings, but I sit in the openspace with the rest of the team.
Because what I realized is,first of all, I want to be part
of the team and I want them tofeel like I'm accessible.
(22:27):
There's a lot of ideas theywant to bounce off of me,
questions they want to ask.
It's something I always say iskeep asking questions until you
ask questions.
We didn't ask ourselves andthat's how we're going to
improve and I feel like itreally works in the Tel Aviv
office and I was like, how do Imake that happen in the offices
that, yeah, I fly.
(22:47):
I meet the team every few monthsto see the teams in the other
offices, but I don't get thesame amount of FaceTime and
that's why I keep telling theteams in the other offices is
feel like I'm in the office withyou and you have a question.
Just throw the message in Slack.
I'm there, I'll respond.
We could jump on a quick call.
(23:07):
We need a meeting.
We'll jump on a quick meeting,but we have to use these lines
of communication as though we'rein the office together.
If not, things are just going todrag on misunderstandings of
what actually needs to be doneor what is the information that
was explained, because there's alot of details in our solution.
(23:28):
I always say that our solutionis really domain expertise
combined with technology andthat's where the magic happens.
Domain expertise combined withtechnology and that's where the
magic happens.
And some people come withdomain knowledge in our space
before joining Just and othersdon't.
But we pick up that they'repeople.
They can learn and learn reallyfast.
But you need to not be afraidto ask questions in order to get
(23:50):
up to speed really quickly.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, I think that all is a little easier in person
.
And actually, what's funny is,before we hit record, I was
telling you about one of ourcustomers with SimilarWeb and
you.
Just what we're talking aboutreminds me of a conversation
that I was I had with SimilarWebwhen we were scaling out their
team.
Donna Dror, I don't know if youare familiar with the team over
there, but I think she actuallystarted as like when they were
(24:13):
early stage, as either accountexecutive, I think, or sales
manager, and it was one of herfirst jobs in tech and by the
time they IPO, she was generalmanager of North America, like
overseeing all of the NorthAmerica revenue.
Just an incredibly sharpexecutive, right Like one of the
best I've ever worked with, andshe was obsessed with just
(24:34):
making sure her team had enoughface time and at that point they
were like a global team and attimes she was also meeting with
folks in Europe and Tel Aviv andshe was bouncing around, but
she always found a way to get infront of her team just because
that's where, regardless, youcan tell your team.
Yeah, hit me up on Slack, butsometimes they may not just like
the level of detail, the typesof questions like they don't
(24:56):
want to bother you.
They're like oh, ron has somuch on his plate, so just
getting in person and honestlyit's my experience just running
my company there's times whereI'm not getting as much FaceTime
as I would like to.
There's been situations where Ihave an employee in a certain
if they are remote, because westill do have some folks that
(25:18):
are remote Getting on a planejust to go see them right, just
for an afternoon, that kind ofstuff.
Even if you just do it once ortwice, it still makes a big
impression in people's minds.
Right, taking the time, findinga way to get in front of them,
oh, yeah, for sure, and we dothat both myself and Ophir.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
We've been doing that a lot, making sure that whether
we're going to a conference orgoing to meetings abroad, we'll
always stop in the offices andif not, then we'll make a flight
specifically for meetings withthe teams and sessions with the
teams.
But what we're seeing now isit's not enough that just for us
to fly in and we need to alsogive the teams chances, more
(25:53):
chances to meet each other andstarting to decide strategically
who are the right people thatyou want to fly to meet each
other face to face so that theycan work better together.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And that does add a layer of complexity, with global
teams too, right, becauseeverybody's so busy, yeah.
And then you look at yourmanagers right, and it's okay,
they're managing a function,they're hiring for their team,
they're operating in multipletime zones, or at least need to
figure out how to work inmultiple time zones.
And then you have the travelelement.
That's another element, that'sanother thing.
That's, it can be verychallenging to balance and
(26:27):
figure out, like what the rightbalance is there, like,
particularly at a stage whereit's like you're growing quickly
and if you doubled in headcountover a couple years, it's
pretty tricky to do that.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Oh yeah, for sure it's exciting that the team
grows, but you have to be awareof the challenges and make sure
you have people on the groundand in the different locations
that you trust and you feel areresonating the Just culture and
can help others that join thecompany understand what Just is
(26:55):
all about.
So we and I say it now I feellike when I visit each office, I
feel like each office today isan extension of the just culture
, but in its own way.
Each office has a verydifferent vibe in some way, but
also very similar that they'reall just but they're all unique
in their own way of theatmosphere that has been created
(27:19):
there.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, yeah, for sure, For sure, Ronan.
This has been a lot of fun.
We're coming up on time here.
So I just wanted to say thankyou so much for joining me on
the show today.
This was incredibly valuable.
I know the executives andreally everyone tuning in is
going to be able to learn a lotfrom the lessons that you've
learned building just and I'mincredibly bullish on just
(27:41):
future just based on the caliberof people you do have on the
team.
At the end of the day, if you'rea tech company, people build
product right, Domain expertise,abilities, intelligence all of
those types of things Workingtogether as a cohesive team.
Literally nothing great hasever been built without people
working together.
That's an accurate statementlike nothing ever right, and so
(28:01):
I think Just is doing a greatjob pulling in the right people.
Clearly it's working and, again, like your advice is incredibly
valuable.
So thanks for sharing it today,Thanks for having me.
This was fun.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun andhey for everybody tuning in.
Thank you so much for joiningus and we'll talk to you next
time, Take care.
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