In this episode host James Mackey sits down with Lupe Colangelo, Director of Alumni Engagement & Employer Partnerships at General Assembly.
They provide insights into the evolving tech talent landscape with a special focus on AI hiring trends and challenges faced by employers and job seekers alike. Lupe shares key findings from GA's State of Tech Talent report while discussing practical strategies for building sustainable talent pipelines in a rapidly changing tech environment.
For more insights, check out General Assembly's State of Tech Talent report HERE.
Thank you to our sponsor, SecureVision, for making this show possible!
Our host James Mackey
Follow us:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/82436841/
#1 Rated Embedded Recruitment Firm on G2!
https://www.g2.com/products/securevision/reviews
Thanks for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host, james Mackey.
Today we have Lupe Colangelowith us.
Lupe, thank you for joining meon the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yes, and very excited to learn more about you.
I know you do a lot of workwith General Assembly and we're
excited to learn more about yourrole and point of impact as
Director of Alumni and EmployerEngagements and Affiliate
Partnerships.
So and employer engagements andaffiliate partnerships, so it
sounds like you got a lot goingon over there and very excited
to learn about what you're doingat General Assembly.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Just to start us off, we'd love to learn a little bit
more about you and how youended up at General Assembly.
Yeah, thanks so much again.
So I started out as a careercoach, actually, and I did this
for a couple of differentstartups.
I really enjoyed helping peoplefind jobs and eventually the
opportunity came up at GeneralAssembly to be on their coaching
team, which was after folkstook our courses, and so that's
where I started out.
(00:54):
General Assembly, for those whodon't know, is a global tech
talent and training company.
We actually started as aco-working space back in 2011.
And different entrepreneurswould teach each other different
skills and eventually we grewinto a tech training program and
now we support largeenterprises as well as they
upskill and reskill their teams,and we also have consumer
courses if people just want tolearn different technical skills
(01:16):
to help them in their careers.
So that's where I started as acareer coach, helping folks
after they took our programwhile they were in their job
search.
I eventually really enjoyedtalking to employers and
figuring out what they werelooking for and bringing that
feedback back to candidates, andso that's where how I ended up
in the employer partnershipsrole and then, most recently,
have built out our alumniprogram, which just makes sure
(01:38):
we're putting out the rightresources in front of our
candidates as they're in theirjob searches in the tech space,
getting them connected toemployers wherever we can and
just trying to keep thosedifferent people talking to each
other because it's a veryvolatile market.
So the more resources we canput in front of folks, the
better.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, that's really cool.
I'm curious to learn more aboutthe types of services that
you're offering to folks oncethey have done a course or
certification program throughGeneral Assembly, because, I'm
not mistaken, that was, at leastat one time, the core business
in which you had like boot camps, essentially to help folks
(02:14):
learn engineering skills andprogramming languages and things
of that nature.
So that's where you started,right.
That's where General Assemblystarted.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, it started as mainly a consumer business and
very shortly after that's whereenterprise business really took
off, because employers wererealizing that they could invest
in that talent.
But as far as the courses thatpeople take themselves, we have
work short workshops so you canliterally just come for a day,
learn something quickly andskill up a little bit.
We also have short courses,which are great for kind of
(02:43):
part-time folks that are just.
I recently took our dataanalytics short course while
working full-time, and so Ithink that's a great chance for
someone to upskill while they'reon the job.
And then we also have full-timeboot camps.
So those are three-monthprograms that are more designed
for career changers, and sothose folks look for their first
full-time role in tech afterthe program.
(03:03):
But, to answer your question,what we put in front of them
really just depends on theresources that the different
folks need.
I focus a lot on differentpartnerships.
So we recently launched apartnership with Upwork, which
is a freelancing platform, andso GA grads can sign up to be
freelancers and get featured onour page.
We have partnerships withPrentice, which is a job search
(03:24):
platform.
It has a job board.
It has AI resume support, soI'm trying to put a lot of
resources in front of our alumnito help them pick and choose
what they might need at anygiven moment.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Oh, that's awesome, Okay, cool.
So once people have taken acourse, for instance, what
services do you have for helpingthem land their next role?
I know you so it sounds like onthe enterprise level you do
upskilling and reskilling ofexisting employee bases for
enterprise companies, but Idon't.
Maybe it's through like apartnerships channel, or how are
you actually helping folks thatmaybe are career changers or
(03:55):
whatnot find a role once theycomplete courses with your team?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, so we have.
So I would start with ourbootcamps, which have the most
comprehensive support, becausethey're obviously geared towards
a full career change.
So for the boot camp grads foraround six months currently our
sister company, lhh, has areally great candidate platform
that folks can have access toand there's content on there.
There's limited coaching onthere and different resources
(04:21):
that they can tap into for thefirst few months of their job
search.
We also have career coaches whoteach live workshops about tons
of different topics and,depending on what they need,
candidates can opt in and learnfrom those coaches live and ask
questions in that kind ofworkshop type of setting.
We also have differentcommunities.
So we have a Slack communitywhere we share resources and
(04:42):
share opportunities that mightcome in through our network of
employers, and we also Imentioned the partnership with
Prentice, which is a really cooljob search platform that
actually scrapes opportunitiesthe second that they're posted,
so hopefully it helps peoplesave time instead of spending
hours browsing for open jobposts.
They can use this platformpretty quickly, and we have some
(05:02):
different partnerships, like weare recently working with
Jobscan, which is AI resumesupport.
So we have a lot in place thatcan help people, depending on
what they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Okay, that's really cool.
That's really cool.
And so with the affiliatepartnerships, could you tell me?
So that is, for instance, like,when you say partnerships, is
it similar to this AI tool thatyou were just referring to?
What are all the differenttypes of partnerships that
you're building out?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, as long as it's a company, as long as it's
something that's helping peopleon a job search, we usually find
a way to partner with them.
So the ones I mentioned are alittle bit more candidate facing
.
We also have some greatpartnerships with companies like
Career, karma and Course Report, which are review websites, and
so a lot of the times we try topartner with them to share our
alumni stories, because we havesome really great people that
(05:50):
take our courses.
So it's like what course didthey take?
What was their experience like?
What are they doing now in thefields?
Because I think for us,storytelling is really important
and just elevating our alumnias much as we can to show that
you can do it is really cool.
So that's what we try to focuson with our affiliate partners.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Got it Okay, cool.
And so I know that your teamjust released the state of tech
talent report, which we wantedto touch on, and we are going to
hopefully find some link to asummary of the report or
publicly facing version of thereport that we can maybe put in
the description of this episode,which would be great, so folks
tuning in you can take a look atthat.
(06:29):
But I would love to get anoverview of the findings for a
state of tech talent and maybesome of the key stats or key
findings.
And then also I would love tojust riff with you on that, just
based on what I do, which isrun an RPO company with 200 tech
customers and then also run asoftware company that's building
(06:51):
an AI solution for therecruiting space.
So I think we could have areally good conversation about
this and add a lot of value tothe audience.
So, anyways, just to getstarted, I'd love to learn more
about the key findings that GAfound.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah and would love your take on it, because you're
actually in the field doing it.
So I'm curious what resonateswith you.
But I'll start with why thereport exists, which is that
with GA, because we hear so muchfrom candidates and so much
from employers, we like to bethe thought leaders in the space
and say, ok, here's what we'rehearing.
It sounds like people aretalking about how they're
(07:23):
integrating AI, they're talkingabout hiring trends, they're
talking about the perceivedshortage of tech talent.
So we did this study and wesurveyed so many different
people in the industry andhiring leaders and just to
understand how they think aboutbuilding talent pipelines in
2025 and how they think about AI.
So some of the key findings werenot surprising somewhere, but
(07:47):
just some stats that stood outto me were that 75% of tech
hiring leaders at companiesusing AI said that they're
hiring AI talent too quicklywithout taking the time to build
a sustainable pipeline, which Ithought was interesting,
because it seems there's thisrace to find good talent, but
there needs to be more thoughtput into longer skill talent
strategy.
The majority of recruitingleaders so 63% say that hiring
(08:11):
candidates with AI skills ismore challenging than non-AI
roles.
The majority also say thatthey're agreeing to higher
salaries during negotiationswith AI candidates.
So 95% actually say it's hardertoday than three years ago to
find qualified candidates withboth the soft and technical
skills needed.
So all of these stats arereally saying that there is a
(08:32):
race for talent.
It's forcing companies to thinkabout their strategy long-term.
We also saw that 61% oforganizations that are using AI
say that the increased focus onAI skills has heightened the
need for DEI, which is reallyinteresting because there's a
lot of conversation going onabout that.
So we found a lot of reallyinteresting stats here, but I
think the common thread is thathaving a long-term, sustainable
(08:55):
talent pipeline is so importantright now, even though you know
you want to make an AI hiretomorrow, of course, but what
does that mean for you fiveyears from now and and what
roles are you going to needfilled?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay, got it.
And most of this data is comingfrom enterprise tech companies,
or is it a combination of SMBand market and enterprise?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's a combination.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, but is it bent one way or another?
I'm just curious, cause I'vejust, in terms of some of these
stats, is it like a?
Just how is it weighed?
Are most of your customers inthe enterprise space?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Most of our customers are.
I think the actual report willhave a better breakdown than my
brain will.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, sorry, there's a lot of content.
I know there's a lot there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, no, but to answer your question, yes, we do
have mainly enterprisecustomers on that side of the
business, because typically,when you're thinking about
reskilling or upskilling, thattends to happen at scale, and so
usually the companies that arewilling and able to invest in it
have a larger team at leastthat's already existing.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Exactly Cool.
Just looking over some of thesethings too.
Yeah, I mean it's definitelyinteresting, right?
The technology is evolving soquickly with LLMs, and a lot of
companies are looking for folksthat are very knowledgeable and
working with AI and for folkstuning in.
A lot of the hiring forengineers with folks with
experience with AI it's notnecessarily machine learning
(10:15):
engineers where they're actuallybuilding algorithms.
It's more at the applicationlevel, where they're leveraging
open AI and different APIs fromexisting LLM models to create
automation.
Work with creating assistantsand agents, right, ai agents are
essentially going to be the bigthing in 2025 in terms of
(10:37):
product startups that arecreated, as well as internal
agents created by enterpriseorganizations.
Internal agents created byenterprise organizations.
And one way you can think abouta definition of an AI agent is
one that acts autonomously, soit's an assistant, might provide
some automation, maybe like aco-pilot, for instance, right,
(10:58):
or something that helps createcontent.
That'd be considered anassistant.
An agent is one that actuallyacts independently and takes
action based on what they'repulling together.
So an example of an agent wouldbe recruiting somebody who does
an agent that does an interview, qualification and then moves
the candidate to the next roundwould be an agent versus an
(11:20):
assistant would be a co-pilotthat joins a recruiter on an
interview and essentially helpswith the note collection.
So there's finding folks thattruly understand even, for
instance, like the difference ofwhat I just said.
It could go the layer deeper interms of building these
applications.
It's very hard and 80% of whatmakes a good like AI engineer
(11:42):
right, like at the applicationlevel, it's still just like a
solid engineer.
Right, like at the applicationlevel, it's still just like a
solid engineer.
Right, like somebody who's justlike down the pipe really, good
.
But there is this layer of thisneed for, hopefully, have you
know, can we find engineers thathave experience with AI native
products, right, or that areleveraging AI from the ground up
(12:03):
?
And there definitely is a gap, atalent gap, at that level,
because a lot of companies arelooking for experts Right, but
the tech hasn't been around foryears and years, right.
So it's how to find those toppeople.
Curious like that's probably.
I would think a big focus of GAright now is how can we upskill
folks so that they're qualifiedto take on this, almost like a
(12:24):
strategic point of impact,because that's really what this
is about.
They already have the solidcoding skills, hopefully, if
they're being considered forthese roles, but there's like
this strategic motion ofunderstanding how to incorporate
, like API plugins, essentiallyto create these agents.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, you said it perfectly.
Like I think it's it's still atthe core of it.
Like you need to be a goodengineer to be a good AI
engineer, because you need toknow the right prompts to put in
and you need to know, like, howto spot the errors, because
it's gonna they're going to beerrors.
This is not a perfecttechnology, so, like you still
(13:02):
have to know the ins and outs ofthe role, and I think there are
so many candidates that areworried about AI taking over
their jobs.
But I think the position thatwe've taken is really that it's
not necessarily going toeliminate the need for specific
tech talent, but the talent justhas to integrate it and
understand, and differentcompanies will treat it very
differently, which is fine.
Some companies will not allowtheir employees to use it very
differently, which is fine.
Some companies will not allowtheir employees to use it, but
(13:23):
it's still important tounderstand how you're using it,
when it's ethical to use it.
When it's not.
What your company policy lookslike.
And I think there are a lot ofcompanies that are hiring talent
at the top to inform thatpolicy, because you need the CTO
to be able to say here's ourpolicy around using AI and I
think, as far as training goes,we were ahead of the curve in
terms of we've alreadyincorporated how to use AI
(13:44):
within all of our courses,ensuring that, regardless of the
discipline that we're teaching,that we're talking about it and
we've also a sneak peek we'regoing to be putting out more
courses around how non-technicalemployees can leverage AI as
well, because that's importanttoo.
Like you said, a recruiter isnot necessarily a technical
candidate all the time, butthey're going to be using AI.
(14:04):
We're trying to think about howto upskill non-technical
employees as well.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, it's definitely .
It's really interesting and I'msure from a content generation
perspective for GA that's goingto be a very heavy lift because
things are moving so fast.
I feel like as soon as you guyscreate a course, there's going
to be like some new iteration ofopen AI is like operator
version right, or just somethingright where it's like just
constantly evolving and changing.
So I'm sure you're going to beputting out a lot of courses on
(14:31):
this.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I think that's what I will say too is GA is not
an asynchronous course, and Ithink that is what's going to
set us apart, I think, as AIgoes forward, because we have
instructors like that's our.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh, so all the bootcamps are like their actual,
like teacher, professors orteachers.
Okay, so it's not.
None of it is.
Or maybe you do have somerecorded courses, I don't know.
Or is it all interactive?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
We have a little bit of everything.
So if you were to take abootcamp, for example, there's
recorded content thatsupplements the in-course
experience and then ourinstructors.
Obviously we have a corecurriculum, as any live course
would have, that they follow.
But I think what makes GA standout in the market, especially
in a changing market right now,is that our instructors are
(15:15):
industry practitioners.
So our instructors are leaddata scientists, like they're
doing it on the job.
So I think they can providemore than what you might see in
an asynchronous course that wentout a year ago, which is, hey,
I'm on the job.
Actually, here's how we use AIin the real world.
So, on top of your lesson thatyou're getting from GA, they can
answer students' questionsabout what it looks like in the
(15:36):
workplace, which I think sets usapart because we have such a
diverse group of instructors andwe're really leaning into them
during a moment like this whereyou need to adapt quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, it's essentially like you have
on-call advisors, like you havepeople, exactly To me that's so
I'm really glad I asked forclarification there, because,
thank you, because that's likeway more valuable just given how
fast things are changing, right, because the asynchronous
approach where it's likerecorded coursework, it's like
as soon as you get something out, it's just going to have to
like rerecord every quarter andit's also.
(16:07):
This is also way more helpfulfor folks that maybe are
upskilling within organizations.
So it's like you have somebodywho's on the job and they're
trying to figure out how toprogress in their career, get
the promotion or just curious,they just want to be good at
their job, right.
Like just having that liveinformation on the latest stuff
(16:27):
would be, I would assume, beinglike way more valuable.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, and we also.
We do have some content.
That's supplementary, like yousaid, like there is reported
content, there are decks,there's we have all of that.
But the great thing is that wehave skills boards that inform
those courses Every couple ofmonths.
We make sure that it's superrelevant, and those skills
boards are also industry leaders.
So we have folks from topcompanies.
(16:50):
We have an AI skills board, wehave one for engineering.
They're coming to us and sayingto our product teams here's
what we're looking for as webuild out our talent pipeline.
So we can always make sure thatour course is actually meeting
the needs of what the market'slooking for.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, definitely, I'd say it's really fascinating.
I'm curious.
On the employer side it soundslike they're basically saying of
course it's harder to findfolks that have the
qualifications, they're ofcourse offering higher salaries,
all of that tracks Okay.
(17:25):
So it says 53% still rely oncollege degrees, which that must
be in the enterprise space,because that's definitely not
startup or growth stage.
So that must be more soenterprise.
But I would assume that's goingto drop significantly.
But I would assume that's goingto drop significantly, like not
just single digit percentagepoints.
If folks want to hire in thisspace because it's going to be
(17:46):
so competitive and there isstill going to be a talent gap
and they're going to want tohire great people quickly, like
they have to hire very fast orthey're going to get left behind
, so I feel like they're goingto have to more enterprise
companies are going to have todrop that requirement.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I would say this has been a debate for so long and,
like I've been in it for thelast five or so years, I've
always felt the debate that I'veheard has always been college
degree or no college degree.
I actually don't feel that it'sone or the other.
I've always been of the opinionthat a really competitive
company is going to have theirtalent coming from everywhere.
(18:22):
I think that the companies thathave a very diverse talent pool
are the ones that are going tostay ahead, because there's
still a need for a computerscience grad.
I would never say that abootcamp grad and a computer
science grad are going tosatisfy the same need every
single time.
There are totally there's.
There should always be a placefor a computer science grad,
because they focus so much onbackend, for example, they go
(18:44):
super in depth on certainfundamental things that you
would need your technical talentto know.
At the same time, a bootcampgrad has a complete, like a
completely unique skillset aswell.
Right, these folks are, for themost part, career changers, so
they're coming in with reallytransferable soft skills.
They learn extremely quickly,at least at GA.
(19:05):
The bootcamps are so difficultand so it's constant learning,
and you want a talent,especially for engineering, for
example.
We focus a lot on front-enddevelopment.
You want talent that can pickdifferent languages up very
quickly, so I think there's aneed to have pipelines coming
from all those different places,because you never know who's
(19:26):
going to fit a need at a certainpoint.
You want to have talent that'sconstantly learning and evolving
, so I've been of the opinionthat if you have a diverse
talent pool, you're going to bemore competitive yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I think for me and what I advise my customers on, I
really I don't put a lot.
I don't really hardly ever wantthere to be a requirement for a
college degrees, for instance,like if somebody has a computer
science degree from MIT and theygraduated with honor, yeah,
that's great, that's impressive,right, I'm going to consider
(19:54):
that.
But typically what I'm reallylooking at is past work
experience.
I'm looking at what they can doand for me, I put a massive
emphasis on references beingable to verify performance,
verify projects, verify thecoding languages, for instance.
In this case, like, what havethey done?
(20:14):
Can they get references fromseveral previous direct managers
, not just like a peer orsomebody they were loosely
connected to within theorganization, but have the
people they worked for said, yes, that person did a really
incredible job and I can confirmthat they're an expert in X, y
and Z.
To me, that's way more important.
So in some cases, I wouldhonestly like the idea of
somebody who's a lifelonglearner, somebody who's
(20:36):
ambitious and career driven andfocused, often for these roles,
because these are challenging,demanding roles that we're
talking about here, and so weneed people that are really like
this they're laser focused ontheir career to be able to take
companies from zero to one withAI.
I would prefer to have somebodythat's like doing the job,
hands on, doing the extra, thecertifications or the boot camps
(20:59):
, incorporating that into theirwork, even if they're not doing
all of it in their current roleside projects, right, can they
take what they're learning at GAand take on some contracting on
the side?
I would probably I'd have abias, honestly, toward that type
of experience, particularly ifI can validate it through
references, because it's reallyokay.
This person literally just didthis.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
You know what I mean.
So, versus an education of 10,15 years, which is a solid
foundation, right, like it's all, as you said, like having a
diverse candidate pool employeebase is great, it's just yeah, I
can't.
I think for this type of talent, if you're just going to stick
to that as a hard requirement, apass fail requirement, you're
just going to.
I think you run a greater riskof falling behind, unless you're
(21:46):
just going to throw like$400,000 salaries at everybody
and then get away with it Justlike Stanford, mit grads or
something.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, I think that, like the references, is a great
way to go about it.
I think what hiring teams arerealizing is that education can
only go so far and I think,going back to the report, that's
why we see an increase inskills-based hiring methods as
well.
I've heard from a lot ofemployers pretty similar to you.
Like I look at their resume andwork experience, but then how
do I know they can actually dowhat's written on the resume?
(22:13):
So we see a ton of liketechnical assessments go out and
I think that makes it a prettyeven playing field, because
you're not saying do you have adegree or do you not have a
degree.
They're saying can you do thetechnical task that we are
putting in front of you?
Great, then it doesn't reallymatter where you came from,
right, like, as long as you havethe references, the soft skills
, the technical skills, I thinkit makes it a little bit more
(22:34):
equitable, because there'ssomething to be said about
someone that goes out of theirway to learn or make a career
pivot because they really wantto be there.
Like that drive is reallyimportant when you're hiring
talent as well.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think both are very valuableand I'm curious to learn from if
you have any data on thecandidate side some of the do
you happen to know, like whenthey're interviewing with
companies, anything on the AIside, like what are they being
asked or like what are thebiggest challenges they're
encountering on the job market?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I hear a lot of anecdotal data from candidates.
I would say the biggest trendswith that would be like one an
employer I would say employersare assuming at this point that
candidates know how to use AI.
So the assumption is there.
They know that candidates, ifthey're going to hire someone,
this candidate should know, like, the ethics of using AI.
They should be asking questionsabout it.
(23:29):
They should know how it's goingto help them in a day-to-day
capacity, be more efficient intheir jobs.
So I think the assumption likewe're already past that I think
in interviews candidates arebeing asked to disclose if they
use AI.
If it's part of an assessment,some companies are prohibiting
it.
Some companies don't care, aslong as you're disclosing that
(23:50):
you used it.
If it's not an AI focused role,there's a lot more leniency
there and it probably justdepends on company policy.
But if, for example, if it's anAI engineer type of role, then
they are being grilled onnecessarily how they're using it
, how they would think aboutapproaching it for different
technical tasks.
And then whiteboarding,virtually at least, is still
(24:12):
pretty popular for technicalassessments.
So there are some cases whereI've heard of candidates being
asked to use different AI toolsin a technical assessment just
to show if it's like a promptengineer type of role.
Obviously, now that's part ofthe hiring process.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's still this hurdle,
sometimes even with boot camps,where sometimes employers are
looking for the real worldexperience that is, still there
are some biases toward that andfrankly, even you know, at times
, like for certain roles, likethat is still even my preference
, right, it's hey, becausethere's the messiness of
actually working within projectsand things coming up and the
(24:51):
collaboration piece and justlike the random kind of wrenches
that get thrown into stuffright, and how you solve problem
solve for those situations wheneverything gets off track.
But it's still like incrediblyvaluable to have people that
just like at least fundamentallyunderstand and have some
experience and again, like witha real world.
Guidance to me is a lot, itmakes it a lot more valuable and
(25:12):
I think that's one thing Iwould.
If I was a GA candidate for ajob and I had a boot camp, I
would.
I would probably emphasize thefact that it's a live course
with a instructor.
It's not asynchronous.
It's like we literally weretalking about strategies last
week that were being implementedat their employer.
I talked to the teacher aboutwhat they're doing at whatever
(25:32):
their employer is and howthey've gone about problem
solving, and I have access tothis community that I can like
tap into and really talkingabout.
Uh, I think that'll helpovercome if there are employers
that are skeptical or they'relike prioritizing like the
actual work experience.
I feel like referencing thefact that it's yeah, it's a
bootcamp and it's a veryinteractive and I have access to
(25:54):
these resources and thesepeople to advise me, and it's
like very kind.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And, like when I took the course, I was embarrassed
because I had worked at GA forso long and I had never taken a
course, and I regret it becauseit took me so long.
But when I finally took ouranalytics course, I was so
shocked at how I would say likethe structure was really
important to have.
But I really valued thatone-on-one time with the
instructor during office hoursjust to say, okay, because
(26:18):
you're working on projects andyou have to present the projects
and the instructor gives youfeedback for each project, and
so it's not just hearing howthey use it on the job, it's
having the chief data scientistfrom this company look at your
work and say does it track withhow we would use this in a real
world setting?
Here are the things you shouldwork on.
So just the value of havingfeedback when you are looking to
(26:40):
upskill like you just simplydon't get that from an
assessment the same way that youwould from someone who's in the
field every day.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , I think that's that's.
It's really solid, it soundsreally and it's a lot better
than a lot of the programs outthere, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You have me sold.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
If I decide to become an engineer, which I don't
think I will, but definitely Ithink that this is the way to go
, and in fact my brother manyyears ago he was doing a career
change and he actually used GAReally, did a boot camp and he
landed a great job and now he'sa senior engineer and he's doing
great.
So that's how he started and hewas able to find a job, I think
pretty quickly after.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, you see, that's one really great to hear.
That's.
Yeah, I love hearing like thatalumni or when they end up
really happy with the careerchange because it's a big risk
and I respect everyone that doesit because it's a ton of work.
But yeah, even in a market likewe are in right now there's so
much.
There's a lot of kind ofanxiety because we're hearing
about what they offset differentcompanies, hearing a ton of
(27:39):
different conversations about AI, but there's still a lot of
growth and even if someone'sdoing a career change now, there
are companies that are hiringat scale.
There are companies that areopening up junior level roles.
It might take a little longerdepending on the industry, but
there's so much growth out there, especially now with AI.
I still feel very encouragedabout where the market's going.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah, I think so.
I think for candidates outthere, if you're in engineering
or I suppose even if you're not,if you're in HR, it really
doesn't matter anywhere.
Particularly if you're inengineering and your current
role is not incorporating AI toany extent, I would see that as
(28:20):
a pretty big threat and I wouldsee it as okay.
You need to really prioritizeupskilling to make sure that
your skillset is as in demand aspossible, and I think GA could
be a huge part of that.
And I would just put anemphasis on side projects as
well going and proactivelyapplying to jobs that are
incorporating AI and then takingon maybe some side projects to
(28:43):
get some real world experiencethat you can leverage as well.
Just so you have both.
You have GA, then you also have, hopefully, references from
side projects and thenreferences from past employers,
and try to make as compelling ofa case as possible that you're
qualified for some of theseroles that require more of an AI
background.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, yeah, I'm a big fan of freelancing.
I always encourage it, even ifour candidates are looking for
full-time jobs, because I do seea lot of companies even if they
have hiring freezes, they'realways looking for freelancers.
They have contract roles thatcome up.
So it's a great way for someonegetting started to just earn
money, work with some clients,and it's also great job security
(29:24):
.
Like worst case if there arelayoffs.
It's so nice to havefreelancing skills in your back
pocket if you ever need them tojust keep some job security in
the meantime and for tech roles.
It definitely can't hurt to beopen to both.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Particularly, while you'regaining experience, you just you
got to find a way to get theexperience as fast as possible.
Just add it to your skill set.
So yeah, lupe, this has been areally fantastic conversation.
I feel like this has been veryvaluable to our audience.
I'm looking forward topromoting this and getting in
front of people Before we jumpoff.
(29:58):
Is there anything else that youwanted to mention today?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I would just highlight the State of Tech
Talent Report.
I think there are a lot ofgreat nuggets in there and just
different feedback from,especially if you're a candidate
or an employer that's justlooking to get feedback from how
other folks are thinking aboutthis.
I think there's a lot of greatresearch in there that I'm going
to be using in my day to dayrole, so definitely would point
people to that.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Absolutely.
We're definitely going to putit in the description.
So everybody tuning in makesure to check it out there.
Lupe, thank you so much forjoining us.
You're welcome to come back onthe show anytime you want to,
anytime you put out new reportsor you have any more updates on
what GA is doing and any changes, We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Absolutely, and everybody tuning in.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
Hello, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host, james Mackey.
Today we have Lupe Colangelowith us.
Lupe, thank you for joining meon the show today.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yes, and very excited to learn more about you.
I know you do a lot of workwith General Assembly and we're
excited to learn more about yourrole and point of impact as
Director of Alumni and EmployerEngagements and Affiliate
Partnerships.
So and employer engagements andaffiliate partnerships, so it
sounds like you got a lot goingon over there and very excited
to learn about what you're doingat General Assembly.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Just to start us off, we'd love to learn a little bit
more about you and how youended up at General Assembly.
Yeah, thanks so much again.
So I started out as a careercoach, actually, and I did this
for a couple of differentstartups.
I really enjoyed helping peoplefind jobs and eventually the
opportunity came up at GeneralAssembly to be on their coaching
team, which was after folkstook our courses, and so that's
where I started out.
(00:54):
General Assembly, for those whodon't know, is a global tech
talent and training company.
We actually started as aco-working space back in 2011.
And different entrepreneurswould teach each other different
skills and eventually we grewinto a tech training program and
now we support largeenterprises as well as they
upskill and reskill their teams,and we also have consumer
courses if people just want tolearn different technical skills
(01:16):
to help them in their careers.
So that's where I started as acareer coach, helping folks
after they took our programwhile they were in their job
search.
I eventually really enjoyedtalking to employers and
figuring out what they werelooking for and bringing that
feedback back to candidates, andso that's where how I ended up
in the employer partnershipsrole and then, most recently,
have built out our alumniprogram, which just makes sure
(01:38):
we're putting out the rightresources in front of our
candidates as they're in theirjob searches in the tech space,
getting them connected toemployers wherever we can and
just trying to keep thosedifferent people talking to each
other because it's a veryvolatile market.
So the more resources we canput in front of folks, the
better.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, that's really cool.
I'm curious to learn more aboutthe types of services that
you're offering to folks oncethey have done a course or
certification program throughGeneral Assembly, because, I'm
not mistaken, that was, at leastat one time, the core business
in which you had like boot camps, essentially to help folks
(02:14):
learn engineering skills andprogramming languages and things
of that nature.
So that's where you started,right.
That's where General Assemblystarted.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, it started as mainly a consumer business and
very shortly after that's whereenterprise business really took
off, because employers wererealizing that they could invest
in that talent.
But as far as the courses thatpeople take themselves, we have
work short workshops so you canliterally just come for a day,
learn something quickly andskill up a little bit.
We also have short courses,which are great for kind of
(02:43):
part-time folks that are just.
I recently took our dataanalytics short course while
working full-time, and so Ithink that's a great chance for
someone to upskill while they'reon the job.
And then we also have full-timeboot camps.
So those are three-monthprograms that are more designed
for career changers, and sothose folks look for their first
full-time role in tech afterthe program.
(03:03):
But, to answer your question,what we put in front of them
really just depends on theresources that the different
folks need.
I focus a lot on differentpartnerships.
So we recently launched apartnership with Upwork, which
is a freelancing platform, andso GA grads can sign up to be
freelancers and get featured onour page.
We have partnerships withPrentice, which is a job search
(03:24):
platform.
It has a job board.
It has AI resume support, soI'm trying to put a lot of
resources in front of our alumnito help them pick and choose
what they might need at anygiven moment.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Oh, that's awesome, Okay, cool.
So once people have taken acourse, for instance, what
services do you have for helpingthem land their next role?
I know you so it sounds like onthe enterprise level you do
upskilling and reskilling ofexisting employee bases for
enterprise companies, but Idon't.
Maybe it's through like apartnerships channel, or how are
you actually helping folks thatmaybe are career changers or
(03:55):
whatnot find a role once theycomplete courses with your team?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, so we have.
So I would start with ourbootcamps, which have the most
comprehensive support, becausethey're obviously geared towards
a full career change.
So for the boot camp grads foraround six months currently our
sister company, lhh, has areally great candidate platform
that folks can have access toand there's content on there.
There's limited coaching onthere and different resources
(04:21):
that they can tap into for thefirst few months of their job
search.
We also have career coaches whoteach live workshops about tons
of different topics and,depending on what they need,
candidates can opt in and learnfrom those coaches live and ask
questions in that kind ofworkshop type of setting.
We also have differentcommunities.
So we have a Slack communitywhere we share resources and
(04:42):
share opportunities that mightcome in through our network of
employers, and we also Imentioned the partnership with
Prentice, which is a really cooljob search platform that
actually scrapes opportunitiesthe second that they're posted,
so hopefully it helps peoplesave time instead of spending
hours browsing for open jobposts.
They can use this platformpretty quickly, and we have some
(05:02):
different partnerships, like weare recently working with
Jobscan, which is AI resumesupport.
So we have a lot in place thatcan help people, depending on
what they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Okay, that's really cool.
That's really cool.
And so with the affiliatepartnerships, could you tell me?
So that is, for instance, like,when you say partnerships, is
it similar to this AI tool thatyou were just referring to?
What are all the differenttypes of partnerships that
you're building out?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, as long as it's a company, as long as it's
something that's helping peopleon a job search, we usually find
a way to partner with them.
So the ones I mentioned are alittle bit more candidate facing
.
We also have some greatpartnerships with companies like
Career, karma and Course Report, which are review websites, and
so a lot of the times we try topartner with them to share our
alumni stories, because we havesome really great people that
(05:50):
take our courses.
So it's like what course didthey take?
What was their experience like?
What are they doing now in thefields?
Because I think for us,storytelling is really important
and just elevating our alumnias much as we can to show that
you can do it is really cool.
So that's what we try to focuson with our affiliate partners.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Got it Okay, cool.
And so I know that your teamjust released the state of tech
talent report, which we wantedto touch on, and we are going to
hopefully find some link to asummary of the report or
publicly facing version of thereport that we can maybe put in
the description of this episode,which would be great, so folks
tuning in you can take a look atthat.
(06:29):
But I would love to get anoverview of the findings for a
state of tech talent and maybesome of the key stats or key
findings.
And then also I would love tojust riff with you on that, just
based on what I do, which isrun an RPO company with 200 tech
customers and then also run asoftware company that's building
(06:51):
an AI solution for therecruiting space.
So I think we could have areally good conversation about
this and add a lot of value tothe audience.
So, anyways, just to getstarted, I'd love to learn more
about the key findings that GAfound.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah and would love your take on it, because you're
actually in the field doing it.
So I'm curious what resonateswith you.
But I'll start with why thereport exists, which is that
with GA, because we hear so muchfrom candidates and so much
from employers, we like to bethe thought leaders in the space
and say, ok, here's what we'rehearing.
It sounds like people aretalking about how they're
(07:23):
integrating AI, they're talkingabout hiring trends, they're
talking about the perceivedshortage of tech talent.
So we did this study and wesurveyed so many different
people in the industry andhiring leaders and just to
understand how they think aboutbuilding talent pipelines in
2025 and how they think about AI.
So some of the key findings werenot surprising somewhere, but
(07:47):
just some stats that stood outto me were that 75% of tech
hiring leaders at companiesusing AI said that they're
hiring AI talent too quicklywithout taking the time to build
a sustainable pipeline, which Ithought was interesting,
because it seems there's thisrace to find good talent, but
there needs to be more thoughtput into longer skill talent
strategy.
The majority of recruitingleaders so 63% say that hiring
(08:11):
candidates with AI skills ismore challenging than non-AI
roles.
The majority also say thatthey're agreeing to higher
salaries during negotiationswith AI candidates.
So 95% actually say it's hardertoday than three years ago to
find qualified candidates withboth the soft and technical
skills needed.
So all of these stats arereally saying that there is a
(08:32):
race for talent.
It's forcing companies to thinkabout their strategy long-term.
We also saw that 61% oforganizations that are using AI
say that the increased focus onAI skills has heightened the
need for DEI, which is reallyinteresting because there's a
lot of conversation going onabout that.
So we found a lot of reallyinteresting stats here, but I
think the common thread is thathaving a long-term, sustainable
(08:55):
talent pipeline is so importantright now, even though you know
you want to make an AI hiretomorrow, of course, but what
does that mean for you fiveyears from now and and what
roles are you going to needfilled?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay, got it.
And most of this data is comingfrom enterprise tech companies,
or is it a combination of SMBand market and enterprise?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's a combination.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, but is it bent one way or another?
I'm just curious, cause I'vejust, in terms of some of these
stats, is it like a?
Just how is it weighed?
Are most of your customers inthe enterprise space?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Most of our customers are.
I think the actual report willhave a better breakdown than my
brain will.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, sorry, there's a lot of content.
I know there's a lot there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, no, but to answer your question, yes, we do
have mainly enterprisecustomers on that side of the
business, because typically,when you're thinking about
reskilling or upskilling, thattends to happen at scale, and so
usually the companies that arewilling and able to invest in it
have a larger team at leastthat's already existing.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Exactly Cool.
Just looking over some of thesethings too.
Yeah, I mean it's definitelyinteresting, right?
The technology is evolving soquickly with LLMs, and a lot of
companies are looking for folksthat are very knowledgeable and
working with AI and for folkstuning in.
A lot of the hiring forengineers with folks with
experience with AI it's notnecessarily machine learning
(10:15):
engineers where they're actuallybuilding algorithms.
It's more at the applicationlevel, where they're leveraging
open AI and different APIs fromexisting LLM models to create
automation.
Work with creating assistantsand agents, right, ai agents are
essentially going to be the bigthing in 2025 in terms of
(10:37):
product startups that arecreated, as well as internal
agents created by enterpriseorganizations.
Internal agents created byenterprise organizations.
And one way you can think abouta definition of an AI agent is
one that acts autonomously, soit's an assistant, might provide
some automation, maybe like aco-pilot, for instance, right,
(10:58):
or something that helps createcontent.
That'd be considered anassistant.
An agent is one that actuallyacts independently and takes
action based on what they'repulling together.
So an example of an agent wouldbe recruiting somebody who does
an agent that does an interview, qualification and then moves
the candidate to the next roundwould be an agent versus an
(11:20):
assistant would be a co-pilotthat joins a recruiter on an
interview and essentially helpswith the note collection.
So there's finding folks thattruly understand even, for
instance, like the difference ofwhat I just said.
It could go the layer deeper interms of building these
applications.
It's very hard and 80% of whatmakes a good like AI engineer
(11:42):
right, like at the applicationlevel, it's still just like a
solid engineer.
Right, like at the applicationlevel, it's still just like a
solid engineer.
Right, like somebody who's justlike down the pipe really, good
.
But there is this layer of thisneed for, hopefully, have you
know, can we find engineers thathave experience with AI native
products, right, or that areleveraging AI from the ground up
(12:03):
?
And there definitely is a gap, atalent gap, at that level,
because a lot of companies arelooking for experts Right, but
the tech hasn't been around foryears and years, right.
So it's how to find those toppeople.
Curious like that's probably.
I would think a big focus of GAright now is how can we upskill
folks so that they're qualifiedto take on this, almost like a
(12:24):
strategic point of impact,because that's really what this
is about.
They already have the solidcoding skills, hopefully, if
they're being considered forthese roles, but there's like
this strategic motion ofunderstanding how to incorporate
, like API plugins, essentiallyto create these agents.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, you said it perfectly.
Like I think it's it's still atthe core of it.
Like you need to be a goodengineer to be a good AI
engineer, because you need toknow the right prompts to put in
and you need to know, like, howto spot the errors, because
it's gonna they're going to beerrors.
This is not a perfecttechnology, so, like you still
(13:02):
have to know the ins and outs ofthe role, and I think there are
so many candidates that areworried about AI taking over
their jobs.
But I think the position thatwe've taken is really that it's
not necessarily going toeliminate the need for specific
tech talent, but the talent justhas to integrate it and
understand, and differentcompanies will treat it very
differently, which is fine.
Some companies will not allowtheir employees to use it very
differently, which is fine.
Some companies will not allowtheir employees to use it, but
(13:23):
it's still important tounderstand how you're using it,
when it's ethical to use it.
When it's not.
What your company policy lookslike.
And I think there are a lot ofcompanies that are hiring talent
at the top to inform thatpolicy, because you need the CTO
to be able to say here's ourpolicy around using AI and I
think, as far as training goes,we were ahead of the curve in
terms of we've alreadyincorporated how to use AI
(13:44):
within all of our courses,ensuring that, regardless of the
discipline that we're teaching,that we're talking about it and
we've also a sneak peek we'regoing to be putting out more
courses around how non-technicalemployees can leverage AI as
well, because that's importanttoo.
Like you said, a recruiter isnot necessarily a technical
candidate all the time, butthey're going to be using AI.
(14:04):
We're trying to think about howto upskill non-technical
employees as well.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, it's definitely .
It's really interesting and I'msure from a content generation
perspective for GA that's goingto be a very heavy lift because
things are moving so fast.
I feel like as soon as you guyscreate a course, there's going
to be like some new iteration ofopen AI is like operator
version right, or just somethingright where it's like just
constantly evolving and changing.
So I'm sure you're going to beputting out a lot of courses on
(14:31):
this.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I think that's what I will say too is GA is not
an asynchronous course, and Ithink that is what's going to
set us apart, I think, as AIgoes forward, because we have
instructors like that's our.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh, so all the bootcamps are like their actual,
like teacher, professors orteachers.
Okay, so it's not.
None of it is.
Or maybe you do have somerecorded courses, I don't know.
Or is it all interactive?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
We have a little bit of everything.
So if you were to take abootcamp, for example, there's
recorded content thatsupplements the in-course
experience and then ourinstructors.
Obviously we have a corecurriculum, as any live course
would have, that they follow.
But I think what makes GA standout in the market, especially
in a changing market right now,is that our instructors are
(15:15):
industry practitioners.
So our instructors are leaddata scientists, like they're
doing it on the job.
So I think they can providemore than what you might see in
an asynchronous course that wentout a year ago, which is, hey,
I'm on the job.
Actually, here's how we use AIin the real world.
So, on top of your lesson thatyou're getting from GA, they can
answer students' questionsabout what it looks like in the
(15:36):
workplace, which I think sets usapart because we have such a
diverse group of instructors andwe're really leaning into them
during a moment like this whereyou need to adapt quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, it's essentially like you have
on-call advisors, like you havepeople, exactly To me that's so
I'm really glad I asked forclarification there, because,
thank you, because that's likeway more valuable just given how
fast things are changing, right, because the asynchronous
approach where it's likerecorded coursework, it's like
as soon as you get something out, it's just going to have to
like rerecord every quarter andit's also.
(16:07):
This is also way more helpfulfor folks that maybe are
upskilling within organizations.
So it's like you have somebodywho's on the job and they're
trying to figure out how toprogress in their career, get
the promotion or just curious,they just want to be good at
their job, right.
Like just having that liveinformation on the latest stuff
(16:27):
would be, I would assume, beinglike way more valuable.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, and we also.
We do have some content.
That's supplementary, like yousaid, like there is reported
content, there are decks,there's we have all of that.
But the great thing is that wehave skills boards that inform
those courses Every couple ofmonths.
We make sure that it's superrelevant, and those skills
boards are also industry leaders.
So we have folks from topcompanies.
(16:50):
We have an AI skills board, wehave one for engineering.
They're coming to us and sayingto our product teams here's
what we're looking for as webuild out our talent pipeline.
So we can always make sure thatour course is actually meeting
the needs of what the market'slooking for.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, definitely, I'd say it's really fascinating.
I'm curious.
On the employer side it soundslike they're basically saying of
course it's harder to findfolks that have the
qualifications, they're ofcourse offering higher salaries,
all of that tracks Okay.
(17:25):
So it says 53% still rely oncollege degrees, which that must
be in the enterprise space,because that's definitely not
startup or growth stage.
So that must be more soenterprise.
But I would assume that's goingto drop significantly.
But I would assume that's goingto drop significantly, like not
just single digit percentagepoints.
If folks want to hire in thisspace because it's going to be
(17:46):
so competitive and there isstill going to be a talent gap
and they're going to want tohire great people quickly, like
they have to hire very fast orthey're going to get left behind
, so I feel like they're goingto have to more enterprise
companies are going to have todrop that requirement.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I would say this has been a debate for so long and,
like I've been in it for thelast five or so years, I've
always felt the debate that I'veheard has always been college
degree or no college degree.
I actually don't feel that it'sone or the other.
I've always been of the opinionthat a really competitive
company is going to have theirtalent coming from everywhere.
(18:22):
I think that the companies thathave a very diverse talent pool
are the ones that are going tostay ahead, because there's
still a need for a computerscience grad.
I would never say that abootcamp grad and a computer
science grad are going tosatisfy the same need every
single time.
There are totally there's.
There should always be a placefor a computer science grad,
because they focus so much onbackend, for example, they go
(18:44):
super in depth on certainfundamental things that you
would need your technical talentto know.
At the same time, a bootcampgrad has a complete, like a
completely unique skillset aswell.
Right, these folks are, for themost part, career changers, so
they're coming in with reallytransferable soft skills.
They learn extremely quickly,at least at GA.
(19:05):
The bootcamps are so difficultand so it's constant learning,
and you want a talent,especially for engineering, for
example.
We focus a lot on front-enddevelopment.
You want talent that can pickdifferent languages up very
quickly, so I think there's aneed to have pipelines coming
from all those different places,because you never know who's
(19:26):
going to fit a need at a certainpoint.
You want to have talent that'sconstantly learning and evolving
, so I've been of the opinionthat if you have a diverse
talent pool, you're going to bemore competitive yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I think for me and what I advise my customers on, I
really I don't put a lot.
I don't really hardly ever wantthere to be a requirement for a
college degrees, for instance,like if somebody has a computer
science degree from MIT and theygraduated with honor, yeah,
that's great, that's impressive,right, I'm going to consider
(19:54):
that.
But typically what I'm reallylooking at is past work
experience.
I'm looking at what they can doand for me, I put a massive
emphasis on references beingable to verify performance,
verify projects, verify thecoding languages, for instance.
In this case, like, what havethey done?
(20:14):
Can they get references fromseveral previous direct managers
, not just like a peer orsomebody they were loosely
connected to within theorganization, but have the
people they worked for said, yes, that person did a really
incredible job and I can confirmthat they're an expert in X, y
and Z.
To me, that's way more important.
So in some cases, I wouldhonestly like the idea of
somebody who's a lifelonglearner, somebody who's
(20:36):
ambitious and career driven andfocused, often for these roles,
because these are challenging,demanding roles that we're
talking about here, and so weneed people that are really like
this they're laser focused ontheir career to be able to take
companies from zero to one withAI.
I would prefer to have somebodythat's like doing the job,
hands on, doing the extra, thecertifications or the boot camps
(20:59):
, incorporating that into theirwork, even if they're not doing
all of it in their current roleside projects, right, can they
take what they're learning at GAand take on some contracting on
the side?
I would probably I'd have abias, honestly, toward that type
of experience, particularly ifI can validate it through
references, because it's reallyokay.
This person literally just didthis.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
You know what I mean.
So, versus an education of 10,15 years, which is a solid
foundation, right, like it's all, as you said, like having a
diverse candidate pool employeebase is great, it's just yeah, I
can't.
I think for this type of talent, if you're just going to stick
to that as a hard requirement, apass fail requirement, you're
just going to.
I think you run a greater riskof falling behind, unless you're
(21:46):
just going to throw like$400,000 salaries at everybody
and then get away with it Justlike Stanford, mit grads or
something.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, I think that, like the references, is a great
way to go about it.
I think what hiring teams arerealizing is that education can
only go so far and I think,going back to the report, that's
why we see an increase inskills-based hiring methods as
well.
I've heard from a lot ofemployers pretty similar to you.
Like I look at their resume andwork experience, but then how
do I know they can actually dowhat's written on the resume?
(22:13):
So we see a ton of liketechnical assessments go out and
I think that makes it a prettyeven playing field, because
you're not saying do you have adegree or do you not have a
degree.
They're saying can you do thetechnical task that we are
putting in front of you?
Great, then it doesn't reallymatter where you came from,
right, like, as long as you havethe references, the soft skills
, the technical skills, I thinkit makes it a little bit more
(22:34):
equitable, because there'ssomething to be said about
someone that goes out of theirway to learn or make a career
pivot because they really wantto be there.
Like that drive is reallyimportant when you're hiring
talent as well.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think both are very valuableand I'm curious to learn from if
you have any data on thecandidate side some of the do
you happen to know, like whenthey're interviewing with
companies, anything on the AIside, like what are they being
asked or like what are thebiggest challenges they're
encountering on the job market?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, I hear a lot of anecdotal data from candidates.
I would say the biggest trendswith that would be like one an
employer I would say employersare assuming at this point that
candidates know how to use AI.
So the assumption is there.
They know that candidates, ifthey're going to hire someone,
this candidate should know, like, the ethics of using AI.
They should be asking questionsabout it.
(23:29):
They should know how it's goingto help them in a day-to-day
capacity, be more efficient intheir jobs.
So I think the assumption likewe're already past that I think
in interviews candidates arebeing asked to disclose if they
use AI.
If it's part of an assessment,some companies are prohibiting
it.
Some companies don't care, aslong as you're disclosing that
(23:50):
you used it.
If it's not an AI focused role,there's a lot more leniency
there and it probably justdepends on company policy.
But if, for example, if it's anAI engineer type of role, then
they are being grilled onnecessarily how they're using it
, how they would think aboutapproaching it for different
technical tasks.
And then whiteboarding,virtually at least, is still
(24:12):
pretty popular for technicalassessments.
So there are some cases whereI've heard of candidates being
asked to use different AI toolsin a technical assessment just
to show if it's like a promptengineer type of role.
Obviously, now that's part ofthe hiring process.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's still this hurdle,
sometimes even with boot camps,where sometimes employers are
looking for the real worldexperience that is, still there
are some biases toward that andfrankly, even you know, at times
, like for certain roles, likethat is still even my preference
, right, it's hey, becausethere's the messiness of
actually working within projectsand things coming up and the
(24:51):
collaboration piece and justlike the random kind of wrenches
that get thrown into stuffright, and how you solve problem
solve for those situations wheneverything gets off track.
But it's still like incrediblyvaluable to have people that
just like at least fundamentallyunderstand and have some
experience and again, like witha real world.
Guidance to me is a lot, itmakes it a lot more valuable and
(25:12):
I think that's one thing Iwould.
If I was a GA candidate for ajob and I had a boot camp, I
would.
I would probably emphasize thefact that it's a live course
with a instructor.
It's not asynchronous.
It's like we literally weretalking about strategies last
week that were being implementedat their employer.
I talked to the teacher aboutwhat they're doing at whatever
(25:32):
their employer is and howthey've gone about problem
solving, and I have access tothis community that I can like
tap into and really talkingabout.
Uh, I think that'll helpovercome if there are employers
that are skeptical or they'relike prioritizing like the
actual work experience.
I feel like referencing thefact that it's yeah, it's a
bootcamp and it's a veryinteractive and I have access to
(25:54):
these resources and thesepeople to advise me, and it's
like very kind.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And, like when I took the course, I was embarrassed
because I had worked at GA forso long and I had never taken a
course, and I regret it becauseit took me so long.
But when I finally took ouranalytics course, I was so
shocked at how I would say likethe structure was really
important to have.
But I really valued thatone-on-one time with the
instructor during office hoursjust to say, okay, because
(26:18):
you're working on projects andyou have to present the projects
and the instructor gives youfeedback for each project, and
so it's not just hearing howthey use it on the job, it's
having the chief data scientistfrom this company look at your
work and say does it track withhow we would use this in a real
world setting?
Here are the things you shouldwork on.
So just the value of havingfeedback when you are looking to
(26:40):
upskill like you just simplydon't get that from an
assessment the same way that youwould from someone who's in the
field every day.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , I think that's that's.
It's really solid, it soundsreally and it's a lot better
than a lot of the programs outthere, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You have me sold.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
If I decide to become an engineer, which I don't
think I will, but definitely Ithink that this is the way to go
, and in fact my brother manyyears ago he was doing a career
change and he actually used GAReally, did a boot camp and he
landed a great job and now he'sa senior engineer and he's doing
great.
So that's how he started and hewas able to find a job, I think
pretty quickly after.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, you see, that's one really great to hear.
That's.
Yeah, I love hearing like thatalumni or when they end up
really happy with the careerchange because it's a big risk
and I respect everyone that doesit because it's a ton of work.
But yeah, even in a market likewe are in right now there's so
much.
There's a lot of kind ofanxiety because we're hearing
about what they offset differentcompanies, hearing a ton of
(27:39):
different conversations about AI, but there's still a lot of
growth and even if someone'sdoing a career change now, there
are companies that are hiringat scale.
There are companies that areopening up junior level roles.
It might take a little longerdepending on the industry, but
there's so much growth out there, especially now with AI.
I still feel very encouragedabout where the market's going.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yeah, I think so.
I think for candidates outthere, if you're in engineering
or I suppose even if you're not,if you're in HR, it really
doesn't matter anywhere.
Particularly if you're inengineering and your current
role is not incorporating AI toany extent, I would see that as
(28:20):
a pretty big threat and I wouldsee it as okay.
You need to really prioritizeupskilling to make sure that
your skillset is as in demand aspossible, and I think GA could
be a huge part of that.
And I would just put anemphasis on side projects as
well going and proactivelyapplying to jobs that are
incorporating AI and then takingon maybe some side projects to
(28:43):
get some real world experiencethat you can leverage as well.
Just so you have both.
You have GA, then you also have, hopefully, references from
side projects and thenreferences from past employers,
and try to make as compelling ofa case as possible that you're
qualified for some of theseroles that require more of an AI
background.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, yeah, I'm a big fan of freelancing.
I always encourage it, even ifour candidates are looking for
full-time jobs, because I do seea lot of companies even if they
have hiring freezes, they'realways looking for freelancers.
They have contract roles thatcome up.
So it's a great way for someonegetting started to just earn
money, work with some clients,and it's also great job security
(29:24):
.
Like worst case if there arelayoffs.
It's so nice to havefreelancing skills in your back
pocket if you ever need them tojust keep some job security in
the meantime and for tech roles.
It definitely can't hurt to beopen to both.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Particularly, while you'regaining experience, you just you
got to find a way to get theexperience as fast as possible.
Just add it to your skill set.
So yeah, lupe, this has been areally fantastic conversation.
I feel like this has been veryvaluable to our audience.
I'm looking forward topromoting this and getting in
front of people Before we jumpoff.
(29:58):
Is there anything else that youwanted to mention today?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I would just highlight the State of Tech
Talent Report.
I think there are a lot ofgreat nuggets in there and just
different feedback from,especially if you're a candidate
or an employer that's justlooking to get feedback from how
other folks are thinking aboutthis.
I think there's a lot of greatresearch in there that I'm going
to be using in my day to dayrole, so definitely would point
people to that.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Absolutely.
We're definitely going to putit in the description.
So everybody tuning in makesure to check it out there.
Lupe, thank you so much forjoining us.
You're welcome to come back onthe show anytime you want to,
anytime you put out new reportsor you have any more updates on
what GA is doing and any changes, We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Absolutely, and everybody tuning in.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk to you next time,take care.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.