The landscape of global talent acquisition is evolving rapidly, and nearshore engineering teams in Latin America have emerged as a strategic solution for US-based tech companies.
In this insightful conversation, host James Mackey and Gino Ferrand, Founder and CEO of Tecla, explore why Latin American engineering teams are becoming increasingly attractive for companies looking to optimize their hiring strategies in today's volatile market.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host, James Mackey,Very excited for today's episode
.
We have Gino Ferrand with ustoday.
Gino is the founder and CEO ofTekla and he's gonna tell you
all about what Tekla does, andit's gonna be a very exciting
episode.
We're gonna be talking a lotabout Latin American-based teams
(00:20):
and how a lot of companies areleveraging Latin-based
engineering teams and evenrecruiting teams to support
customers in the US market.
So that's something that Ginoand I know a thing or two about,
so hopefully we'll be able toprovide a lot of insight here.
But anyways, I would love tojust go ahead and say hey, Gino,
welcome to the show.
Appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, hey, thanks so much.
I'm really excited to bechatting with you today and,
yeah, I think all of thesetopics are super exciting,
especially right now.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
It's like, as fast as the worldis changing, it's just trying
to establish strong strategiesis something that I think every
executive gets top of mind rightnow.
It's like how do we, how docompanies, weather the storm,
weather volatility?
Companies, whether the storm,whether volatility, you know
it's and I think staffing rightis a big part of how to do that.
And it is, I feel, likevolatility.
(01:10):
At least a couple of years agoit seemed to be a little bit
more dialed into startup andgrowth stage tech, right when we
seen those violent swings.
But now it just seems theworld's getting crazier and it
seems like that's going toexpand potentially more into mid
marketmarket, into otherindustries.
So it's a time I think a lot offolks are thinking about how do
we prepare for that world.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Totally no, I agree.
Besides, it's not just AI, it'snot just the economy, it's not
just companies trying to beleaner, it's all of these things
together at the same time.
So I feel like for staffing,it's a pretty exciting time and,
like you were saying, forhiring managers it's an
interesting time becauseobviously everyone, I think
higher up is trying to puttogether a strategy of how do we
(01:52):
hire lean, how do we save money, how are we effective, how do
we use AI to hire intelligently,and so yeah, so many things
happening at once.
I think I'm sure that everyonecan say that about their
industry right now.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh yeah, it's not just all those things you
mentioned, and it's also notjust tariffs.
It's also not just cold warsand warm wars and just
everything that's going on inthe world.
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
As a business executive, it's like you're
trying to lean on data and makeanalytical-based decisions based
on past performance, but thenit's like you, everything is.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It just seems like it's changing precedence.
What the heck is normal?
Yeah, wait, totally yeah, man.
Just to start us off, though,which I could already tell by us
already riffing, this is gonnabe a lot of fun, but let's just
back up for a second.
I'd love it if you could tellus a little bit about yourself
yeah, I'm originally from lima,from peru.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I've lived in the states for yeah years now, so
most of my life actually in theStates, and I, more recently,
the last seven years, I've beenliving in Seattle and really
spreading our brand and workingwith a lot of cool companies
there.
Now, like I was telling you,I'm personally moving to Austin,
but our company is fully remote, so we have about a hundred
(03:04):
people right now and that'sreally all of them distributed
throughout some in the U S.
We have four, four or fivepeople in the U S, but most of
our team is in Columbia andArgentina, brazil, mexico, peru,
so all scattered throughoutthroughout LATAM.
But, yeah, I've been runningthis company for yeah, close to
10 years now and yeah, what?
I think that those are like themain things that I usually
(03:26):
start off with, but that's why,the latin america angle for
tecla.
It's really because I'm fromlatin america and most of the
team is too, so yeah that'sawesome, man.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Do you ever visit lima anymore?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I go back two or three times a year and trying to
travel more to meet up with ourteams.
We have a pod system, like likeeveryone works remotely, works
from home, but everyone also wehave a budget and really that we
really try for people to gettogether in their cities and
frequently traveling and meetingup with the teams in different
cities and yeah, it's super fun.
It's definitely for us it'sbeen a really good setup setup.
(04:02):
I know a lot of companies haverecently been returning to
office and stuff and doinghybrid work setups as well, but
for us it's even before thepandemic.
It was always remote for us, soI think we've really learned to
make it, to make it work yeah,it's, and I definitely have a
lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I think my perspective on remote and return
to office has definitelyevolved over the past few years.
Maybe that's a topic we can getinto as well.
It's, yeah, there's lots ofstuff to talk about, but let's
let's just if you could give anoverview on tecla, the services
you offer, the customers youwork with and anything else that
you would feel is important interms of what makes you guys
(04:40):
great at what you do, or someanything that, like potential
people would consider you guyswould want to know great at what
you do, or anything that, like,potential people would consider
you guys would want to know?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, no.
So, like I mentioned, we've gotabout 10 years in this space
and basically what we do is webuild near shore engineering
teams for startups and techsoftware companies in the US.
So most of our clients aregrowth stage startups.
So I would say most of themhave some sort of funding, most
of them are VC backed, but wework with quite a bit that are
(05:10):
bootstrapped or that are doingconsulting or agency type of
work.
But, yeah, most of our clientsI think are growth stage
startups series A, b, C and thenmid-market companies.
A few well-known brands too theMLS, major League Soccer that's
a company that we work with andthere's a few brands like that.
But I think most of our clientsare engineering teams at
companies that are reallylooking to make the most out of
(05:31):
their hiring, and so Nearshoreis a good setup for them.
And, yeah, we run a fully.
As I was telling you beforethat we started.
It's a fully managed type ofservice.
The teams that we build arefully integrated with our
clients, so to our clients theyreally feel like any other team
member, but in the background webasically take care of
(05:52):
everything.
So if a company is looking tobuild a team of five engineers
in LATAM, we'll introduce themto candidates that are in our
network, have been pre-vetted,pre-screened by our team, have a
profile on our platform, andwe'll basically do a fully
managed white glove service allthe way to where, when they're
ready to hire, and so when theybasically select who they want
(06:15):
to bring onto the team, we'llalso have a team that manages
all of the employment stuff thelegal, the contracts, the HR,
success management, that likesort of performance support that
we like to give companies tomake sure that everyone's on the
same page, and so, yeah, sobasically we handle everything
except the actual projectmanagement of whatever the team
(06:35):
is doing.
That is handled by our clients,and so that's pretty much how we
work, and I'd say that whatmakes us different is we're
definitely more recently takingon a big focus on AI and so
really trying to uncover thebest, the engineers that have
the best knowledge with AI, butalso training our teams and
investing in tools and resourcesthat candidates can use to get
(06:58):
up to speed, because it seemslike companies are very much
focused on hiring people thatcan be 10x productivity by
augment, by leveraging AI.
That and our vetting process.
Like we really do quite a bitin terms of, like English
testing, soft skills, technicalskills, any other sort of
assessment that we think is agood fit.
So I think that's whatcompanies like the most.
(07:19):
I think most of our clients arelooking for a turnkey service
think most of our clients arelooking for a turnkey service
Like we want.
We want to make sure we'reinterviewing the best people and
we want to make sure that, oncewe're ready, you guys will
handle everything in thebackground and we don't have to
worry about EORs or deal andcontracts and the benefits and
how much is it going to cost atthe very end, because I think a
lot of companies are typicallysurprised by how much some of
(07:41):
the EORs cost at the very end,like the full sort of ticket.
So yeah, so that's basicallywhat we do.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Cool and just so everybody knows tuning in EORs.
Can you tell me exactly whatthat means?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, companies like Deal, oyster, Remotecom,
employers of Record yeah, yeah,that's what I meant, employers
of Record.
Yeah, yeah, so we handle thatas part of our service instead
of companies having to gothrough the stack independently.
Right, find a recruiter, thenfind an EOR, then find an HR
person who's going to manage theteam, and we just blend all of
(08:14):
that in.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah for sure, okay, yeah, that sounds good and
something I'm very familiar withmy services company that I
started about a decade ago aswell, secure Vision, provides
embedded recruiting and RPOsolutions, recruitment process
outsourcing, but embeddedrecruiting it sounds probably
similar to what you're doing interms of engineering and it
depends.
We have customers where we'reliterally we oversee talent
(08:38):
acquisition, we have head oftalent in place, managing the
solution end to end, and then wehave like bigger customers
right, where it's a differentpoint of impact, right, or a
smaller customer that maybedoesn't need that much support,
where we're really just pluggingin a high performing recruiter.
Our model is we bring therecruiters, we bring the
technology needed to recruit, webring, like, the best practices
(09:00):
and process and, generallyspeaking, it's, I would say,
like more solutions orientedwhere it's okay, there's a
hiring plan.
We got to hire, like they mightsay, we have to hire like 500
engineers, right, okay, here'show many recruiters we're going
to do.
Here's the tech we're bringingto the table, here's the process
we recommend.
We're going to plug these folksin for the next 12 months, and
so it's probably it's probably avery similar emotion to what
(09:20):
you guys are doing.
Yeah, but yeah definitely prettyfamiliar with what yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, I think with that, your type of service, I'm
sure that some companies aremore looking for the final
outcome too.
Right, oh, we were doing all ofthis because we need to
increase headcount by 30, 40people and with us, I think,
most of our clients really justreally measure the results and
based on the and based on theperson's output, but still they
manage like building a productis different than we need to
(09:49):
hire 50 people, which I guesscan be a little more objective,
but yeah, but definitely verysimilar yeah, similar in some
ways, and I think it'd be coolto start about the benefits,
like the near showing going tolatin america.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'm a huge advocate of hiring in latin america for
several reasons.
First and foremost from a priceperspective.
It is a little easier from abudget standpoint for US-based
companies and I frankly I don'tI think probably the best
companies they don't really lookat it as let's pay the least
amount of possible, it's hey,let's come into a market where
the rates are lower than in theUS and let's come in top of
(10:24):
market to get the best people.
And so it is a cost savingmotion to an extent, but it's
also a value creating motions,it's not.
I don't think people shouldlook at it as cost saving.
It's ROI.
It's like how do we get thebest investment and so smart
investments?
There is a cost element right,but there's also like the return
, and the return of getting thebest people in the market is
(10:47):
also huge, right.
So it's.
I think it's that combinationof factors, like kind of pillar
number one or the reason that I,for instance, a part of my team
is in Latin America and that'sa core part.
I was like I want sustainablepricing, I want significant ROI,
I want the best people on myteam.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I totally agree.
I think that obviously, thevalue of having people work in a
real time, in real time modebecause of the time zones, I
think that's a huge plus and,totally to what you were saying,
I think that most of ourclients are coming with that
perspective because, obviously,companies that are looking to
(11:22):
build like a call center with200 people obviously
theilippines, india, there'sstill places that can be a lot
more yeah, a lot cheaper.
But, like you were saying, Ithink that for some teams it
really makes sense to get themost value possible and I think
that's what you can get withlatin yeah, I think the times
(11:42):
are.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Things are really important for you to consider.
Just look, just look.
I built a subsidiary in Romania, in Eastern Europe, and I've
also helped customers build outengineering teams in Poland in
different regions.
Right, we helped a firm AFF,irm but then tech company.
First we helped them hire 500people in the United States.
Then the tech market crashed,then they moved engineering to
Poland.
(12:03):
Then the tech market crashed,then they moved engineering to
Poland.
We helped them with that too.
Look, reality is like somethingis lost a lot of the times at
scale with different time zones.
I still have a few folks inEastern Europe and they're
incredible and they've been withme almost a decade, but I don't
see it as a solid scalestrategy.
(12:23):
Typically, I think the moretransactional the work, the more
junior level the work, the morepotentially it's okay.
But there is still things thatit's hard to operate very
quickly and in an organizationwhere folks are operating in
different time zones, thereality too, it's like when you
start to look at and this islike something that I think a
lot of people miss when it comesto the time zone, it's like
(12:47):
you're it's harder to get mid tosenior level people because if
they're more competitive on themarket, if they're senior level,
they're at that point they'reprobably going to have kids,
they're probably going to have ahome life, they're going to be
trying to balance those thingsand so your talent pool of
people that are going to bewilling to do that, even if you
pay them more money yeah isgoing to shrink significantly.
(13:10):
And that was a problem that wehad in romania, where it's look,
I could offer folks some folkslike even almost close to double
, and it was like, look, I justI'm not gonna do that, and so
you get limited.
Now you get the ambitious kidin their 20s, sure, but it's
just.
I think it also depends on,like, the seniority too.
Like I think for, for instance,like for some SDR motions,
(13:32):
legion motions, okay, you canget folks that are junior level,
put them through a three weekbootcamp, put them on a customer
account or whatever it was,just have them start to reach
out to customers, whatever thatmodel, I think, that kind of
transactional junior levelmotion, just where it's like
you're just go junior levelpeople and maybe they make it,
maybe they don't, and you'rejust like funneling new pipeline
(13:53):
.
Maybe that works, but for for Idon't know, I think, seniority,
at the end of the day, what I'msaying is a long-winded way of
me saying I think if it's mid tosenior level roles, time zone
really starts to matter more.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, definitely, and I mean I do think that not to
generalize, but having been inand provide ideas and challenge
and be a part of the team in howUS companies, I think, work,
where people can be outspokenand there's a collaborative way
of getting to the best productpossible or the best ideas
possible, and I think that iseasier sometimes in certain
(14:41):
countries.
I do think that you can findpeople that are more willing to
take on that role, and othertimes I think it's like you were
saying, teams where you'reputting on a hundred person team
to do something a bit moretransactional and it is maybe
because we were talking a littlebit about AI is those are the
types of things that companiesare wondering how that's going
(15:03):
to affect some of thosestrategies.
So, hey, we need 100 people,very low cost, to do this type
of mechanical, turk type ofchore, and I think that's what I
think we're seeing a lot ofcompanies try to use AI for very
quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And it's interesting though, for the outsourcing,
low-cost labor versus AI.
There are certain regions ofthe world, though, like where
salaries are still less than theAI solutions right.
So that is still is somethingthat was counterintuitive to me,
but something that's come up ina few conversations lately
where it's like there's stilllike this balancing act because
(15:41):
a lot of these AI solutions liketheir pricing is based on usage
right, like the api calls,because most of them like
they're not building aialgorithms, like at that
foundational level, like they'releveraging tools like chat, gbt
or open ai's api's right, andso whenever there's a call made
to the systems, like it's likethere's a usage pricing that is
(16:01):
occurring and so a lot of theseorganizations it's certainly a
lot cheaper than, I would say,us talent, near shore talent.
But there are some regions ofthe world for super
transactional work where, at ajunior level, the AI solutions
are going to still come in at ahigher price point level.
(16:23):
The AI solutions are going tostill come in at a higher price
point.
So that'll just be interestingto see over time how much lower
are those usage costs going tobe from those API calls, because
most of the AI agents, the vastmajority of AI products being
built, are at that application,at that AI agent level and
leveraging open AI stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's still a little bit of a
longer term investment for thecompanies that are trying to go
with the agentic model insteadof okay, let's say that they are
using that to replace certainteams that they had offshore.
I think it's still.
We're still not there yet and,like you were saying, a lot of
the usage, too, is thrown awayon top of it, too, like it is
(16:59):
expensive, and a lot of it youhave to throw away because you
have to do multiple times torefine to get the level of
product that or the level ofoutcome that you are trying to
we're trying to get.
Yeah, I think it's still in the.
I haven't talked to manyfounders or companies that have
are using a GenTech AI which islike where it's like completely
replaced a department or likesomething that they were doing
(17:22):
wholly, but but I think that'sdefinitely.
I think CEOs are trying to belike the first ones to be able
to do that Right, because thenthey can get some advantage for
a bit.
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it is really fascinating.
Yeah, I getting back to justseeing if there's anything else
on the Latin America benefits,right, so we talked about ROI.
As opposed to just thinkingcost savings, thinking in terms
of ROI, I think Latin America isthe best.
We talked about culture.
I agree.
I think Latin America cultureand United States culture mesh
(17:56):
very well in many different ways.
I think behaviorally, the waythat top performers, executives
in the United States think verymuch so aligns with top
performers and executives inLatin America.
I think that I think there's alot and I think, of course, you
can find folks that arebehaviorally and culturally
aligned anywhere in the worldLike you can.
It's just about likeprobability.
There's just more.
(18:17):
I think like I think LatinAmerica, you more I think like I
think latin america, you'remore likely to consistently find
people where it's a good mesh.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
yeah yeah, exactly that's what we've.
That's what we've always seen,and we work with a lot of
companies that are interviewingfolks in the us and also in
other countries, and so I thinkthat we've always seen that,
that comparison, and have seenthe the actual proof of that.
But, yeah, definitely still,like you were saying, roi,
(18:47):
especially for projects whereit's a growing company and
you're building a really cuttingedge product.
I feel like you're getting agreat deal hiring very senior
people in Latam, and that'swhere I think you get the most
ROI.
Or that arbitrage is when youcan find someone that has 10
plus years of experience and isactually just a super senior
engineer that if they were inthe US, that would be making
(19:09):
hundreds of thousands and bigcom packages and all this.
I think that's where you seethe biggest advantage and I
think that's going to still bethe case.
But especially with AI, becauseI think that's going to decrease
some of that arbitrage for,like, more junior stuff.
Right, if, like, it's someonein the US that can use AI to put
out five times the output, thenall of a sudden that arbitrage
might be a little bit less withjunior people in LATAM or using
(19:34):
AI or something like that, butthat's yet to be seen, I think.
But definitely for the seniorlevel roles.
I feel like that's wherecompanies are like wow, this is
the difference is crazy, causeit just as you go up that
seniority level, I feel likethat's it gets exponential.
I think right, cause finding aperson like that in the U?
S is impossible, whereas if youput up a junior posting for a
developer in the U S like youwill get a lot of candidates.
So I think we can't lie toourselves.
(19:56):
There's a lot of candidateslooking for work here, yeah for
sure, For sure.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I have folks in Latin America that are earning like
US salaries.
I mean, I just I want the bestpeople.
I do like some of therecruiters that I have that I
know are in Latin America.
I know they're literally likethe top recruiters in Latin
America and also it's I don't.
(20:27):
I don't know if this is the wayit is on the engineering side
too, but it's a lot of what wedo is very much so referral
based, it kind of like backchanneling based, where it's
like we're talking with onerecruiter and we're like all
right, who do you know?
And it's that's how we'vereally built out the team and we
have hired people like fromcold outreach.
But a lot of it's like topplayers know other top players
and yeah, there's a big enoughtalent pool to be able to scale
it, but it's also small enoughfor people know each other, like
(20:47):
they, they know the other andlike recruiters that supported
premier kind of top notchus-based tech companies and so
yeah and like, at least with ourbusiness, I feel like the first
line of the first strategy iswhich region you're going to be
hiring in.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
And, like we were saying, latam is a great one and
obviously a lot of companiesare onto it already, so it's
like old news.
But the second one is the rightpartner and the right company.
And, at least in terms of Teclaand how we work, we don't start
billing the client until theperson is working.
So there's no search fee,there's no fees to get started
to look at candidates, tointerview or even to hire.
(21:27):
And so a lot of the times whencompanies come to me, they're
talking to us and they say, oh,we're interviewing a few
companies, I'm like that's greatbecause really like that's the
second line of, okay, you'vepicked latam.
But the second line is you makesure you work with the right
company.
But a lot of the times I'lltell them like, start
interviewing people that thiscompany can actually intro you
(21:49):
to, because a lot of companies,everyone will say they have the
best talent.
Right, Everyone's going to saythat.
But there actually is a bigvariance between who companies
can introduce.
I'd say, at least in theengineering space, like we've
worked with a lot of companiesthat came to us and we're like,
look, we've been trying to fillthis for six months and we get
scared because we're like, crap,that might be a client that is
just super picky and reallyisn't looking to hire.
(22:11):
But then we started workingwith them and they're like, oh,
like we, this is the type ofcandidate we were looking to
interview.
So, like those hard to fillengineering positions, those are
my favorite, because I do knowthat the 30 other recruiters in
LATAM for engineering talentthey can't fill those roles.
Like they might be able to findyou a mid-level React developer
(22:33):
I think probably a lot ofcompanies can.
But yeah, those hard to fillare still like a competitive
advantage, but you don't know ituntil you start interviewing
people.
So I always tell companies like, actually interview people with
that company, because otherwiseyou're really just getting sold
on potential of them having thebest talent, which everyone
will say.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I think it's also.
It's like that's really whereyour audience like services.
You got to evaluate, in myopinion, opinion, you got to
understand who's in theleadership seat, like you got
whose point.
Who's making the decisions onthe delivery side?
Is it the chief customerofficer, coo, ceo, who's doing
it?
and what's their methodologylike?
(23:15):
How do they approach operations, onboarding customers,
transitions of staff members?
It's really the execution, Ithink, at that delivery, lead,
delivery, executive level.
That should really dictatewhich vendor you ultimately move
forward with.
Senior engineers.
They're hard to find but, likeultimately, with the right
(23:39):
system and process, should beable to plug in If somebody
transitions out due to personalreasons or they accept another
job or whatever.
It shouldn't be a big deal.
Like the right services companyshould be running effectively
enough where they can plugsomebody else in and not skip a
beat.
That's one of the things too.
It's like cause we work withpeople.
Our businesses are peoplebusinesses and people can be
(24:01):
unpredictable.
You could hire like a seniorengineer with 10 years of
experience who's delivered onpast customers can get
references from previous directmanagers.
Everybody says the greatestengineer they've ever worked
with.
They can go on a customeraccount and a lot, because
people enter different chaptersin life.
There's just things happenright, like sometimes stuff
doesn't work.
So what I tell customers islike we happen right, Like
(24:26):
sometimes stuff doesn't work.
So what I tell customers islike we usually get it right.
We usually get it right, butsometimes the difference between
a good agency and a greatagency is what an agency does
when it doesn't go right.
How do you manage that and howdo you manage it and protect the
customer?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
That's the type of stuff where it's I don't know if
they all, like folks,necessarily think about it that
way, but when I'm evaluatingservice like services companies,
it's I want to know who'srunning the show on the delivery
side.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That's going to that's going to inform me on
what it's going to be like towork with them Exactly.
I think that companies that havevery good processes, those are
the type of companies that, whenit comes to people and staffing
, I think that those are goingto be like long term long term
better, better partners.
And yeah, we've talked to a lotof clients that come to us and
they say we already have a teamin LATAM, but, like our current
partner, maybe they haveretention problems or maybe
(25:09):
scaling is quite common too,where they're like, yeah, like
we build a team of two or three,but it seems like we can't
scale with this company for somereason, and so we've heard that
quite a bit too.
So, yeah, definitely, companyfor some reason, and so we've
heard that quite a bit too.
So, yeah, definitely, it's likethe space is so commoditized
but at the same time, it's likeit's people business.
So the, the you have to findthe best people, not just the
(25:32):
end outcome, like the finalcandidate, but work with the
best people as like a partneryeah for sure, man.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I couldn't agree more .
It's.
It is a commoditized space andI don't think we should be
holding ourselves up.
It's not.
I think it's.
There are senses likedifferentiators, but let's be
real.
What really differentiates agreat service company, it's
people business, it's the people, it's the process, it's how the
company is operating.
That's like I, and I believe inthis model through and through.
(25:59):
Like I'm building up anoutbound sales team for secure
vision, my services company, andI'm leveraging a firm like ours
that does that, does this, forsales development and account
executives.
Right, that does an embeddedmodel.
And the way I chose it was notby going on a bunch of websites
and looking at littledifferentiators when it's how
(26:21):
legitimate are they?
It was okay.
Who's running the show?
I got introduced to somebodythat I knew produced results for
a CRO that was very successful.
That's an advisor to my company.
It's like I'm on the phonedirectly with a co-founder of
this, of this organization, andwe're talking strategy and I'm
seeing how much I'm learningfrom him and I'm looking at
(26:41):
things like how responsive theyare, how urgent, like their
sense of urgency, those types ofthings to, and what their
onboarding plan is to reallydecide okay, is this the right
provider?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Are they looking out for me?
Are they just telling me what Iwant to hear?
Are they also telling me aboutrisk, like when you're saying,
like interview people beforeplacing them, like that creates
another layer for you to deliveron right, because then you have
to do that.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But it's also a trust building motion where you're
like, hey, we're going to showyou what we got exactly yeah,
yeah, once we get like a clientto actually go through a process
, then they see how easy it isand the level of talent they can
interview.
Then they're like, oh, theseguys are actually able to
deliver on what they'repromising.
And I think, like to what youwere saying, like it's the
opportunity.
Cost is something thatsometimes I think that the
(27:27):
people overlook.
Right, they're like looking tobe within a specific hourly rate
.
They're looking to be maybefind the partner that is the
cheapest or that is gonna getthem the best cost advantage,
but then you know it's gonnatake you three more months to
hire someone.
That maybe you're not to beable to scale past that.
One or two people maybe they'llleave.
They have retention problems,like and then all of a sudden
(27:49):
your competitors are buildingtheir product way faster and
then they get to market and thenthey make millions and millions
of dollars more than you did,and all because you were trying
to save like $5 an hour and solike a lot.
Like sometimes you do deal withclients that are so focused on
what's the markup exactly, likehow much are you making?
And it's while company, whileyou're doing that like your
(28:09):
competitors already, likeworking with senior people and
especially right now with AI,it's like so many companies are
trying to work very fast inintegrating some of these AI
technologies and building new AItechnologies and it's, I think
but it's always been the case intech Like you have this
opportunity, cost that it's oh.
You can't just eventually hireand eventually get to the
(28:31):
product to where you need it tobe Cause it's okay, there's 10
other tools that are likebuilding faster than you, and
it's always been like that.
I don't think that's new, butbut obviously with like how much
companies are trying to be leanand profitable, I think it's
creating sometimes this hyperfocus on maybe saving a few
bucks an hour instead of okay,now, like you don't have those
(28:52):
three senior engineers to bebuilding, and that just
compounds.
Like you don't have them, sothen you can't get to that next
milestone, so then you can'thire more salespeople to get
more clients, to get morerevenue, and then hire more
engineers and grow and itcompounds.
And I've been seeing it becausewe're hiring go-to-market people
in the US for Tecla and we,like you were saying, we also
(29:12):
use companies like ours and tryto use companies like recruiting
companies and pay those fees tomake sure that we're getting
like the best talent, and fast,because if you make a wrong hire
then all of a sudden you're inQ3 and you've done nothing of
what you were trying to do andthen your competitors are way
ahead.
Yes, it's definitely worth itworking with companies that can
get you the right talent in andfast.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
For sure, man for sure, and I think we had time
for one more topic or somethingthat I would love to dive into
that you actually brought upbefore our call is getting into
evaluating engineering talentfor AI proficiency, yeah, and so
I would love to learn.
I think of a question I have,and I do hire engineers for a
(29:53):
software company that I juststarted, and it's my first time
being a founder of a softwarecompany, which is cool.
But, it's like a newer emotion.
But I am at this point like anengineering hiring manager.
I'm not technical.
I understand it conceptually aswell as I need to to be a CEO.
But I am curious, like how areyou evaluating somebody's
(30:15):
proficiency in AI?
Are you, are you only, do youreally only consider somebody
proficient if they've worked foran AI native product, whether
within a larger organizationbuilding a new AI native product
, or at a AI native like startup?
Or are there other other ways?
Like you don't really care aslong as they're using it and
leveraging it?
Like, how do you think aboutmeasuring somebody's proficiency
(30:36):
?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right now, to give you some like
insight into that, like wereally have a lot of, I would
say that the vast majority ofcompanies coming to us are still
not saying, ok, we need AIcapabilities, we need to vet
this in the job descriptions andeverything like that.
We need to make sure that theyhave this experience.
So that's the truth.
It's like I don't think it'scompletely overtaken like our
(31:00):
hiring process or something likethat it's completely overtaken
like our hiring process orsomething like that.
But but definitely what I'mseeing a lot of is like these
ceos of larger companies arestarting to do that and the
trends how quickly trends movein the tech space, like silicon
valley and everything.
It's like once the seat, likethe ceos of google and meta,
like once the bigger people aresaying this is what we're trying
to do, then all like vcs thensay startups, you have to all do
(31:24):
this in my portfolio, and thenthat's how it all happens.
And so we are like let's saythat about 15% of our current
clients are looking to reallyvet these capabilities.
And yeah, I mean we're workingwith some startups now, actually
, where they've requested thatthey have experience working
with ChatGPT on a daily basisfor code generation or for QA or
(31:44):
for testing and Cursor somereally cool tools that are
coming up in the space that areallowing for faster development,
and I think that's how we'revetting right now is making sure
, first of all, that they do useit on a daily basis, even if
it's just ChatGPT, and then weare now trying to get more into
okay, which tools are you usingLike cursor?
(32:05):
Is it like a full IDE type ofco-pilot, and which tools
specifically?
But at least right now we wantpeople that are using it for
some of like their day-to-day.
I would say.
I think that that's enough forus right now.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, yeah, that's really helpful to know that.
I think that's some solidinsight for folks.
Look, I look.
This has been a ton of fun,Gino.
I've definitely learned somefrom you.
I appreciate your contributionto the show and for our audience
.
I know this is going to be areally valuable episode for
everybody tuning in.
I really appreciate you, man.
Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, thanks so much, man.
It was great meeting you andgreat chatting, and I'll talk to
you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Okay, Sounds good, and hey for everybody tuning in.
Thanks so much for joining usand we'll talk to you soon.
Take care.
Hi, welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show.
I'm your host, James Mackey,Very excited for today's episode
.
We have Gino Ferrand with ustoday.
Gino is the founder and CEO ofTekla and he's gonna tell you
all about what Tekla does, andit's gonna be a very exciting
episode.
We're gonna be talking a lotabout Latin American-based teams
(00:20):
and how a lot of companies areleveraging Latin-based
engineering teams and evenrecruiting teams to support
customers in the US market.
So that's something that Ginoand I know a thing or two about,
so hopefully we'll be able toprovide a lot of insight here.
But anyways, I would love tojust go ahead and say hey, Gino,
welcome to the show.
Appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, hey, thanks so much.
I'm really excited to bechatting with you today and,
yeah, I think all of thesetopics are super exciting,
especially right now.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
It's like, as fast as the worldis changing, it's just trying
to establish strong strategiesis something that I think every
executive gets top of mind rightnow.
It's like how do we, how docompanies, weather the storm,
weather volatility?
Companies, whether the storm,whether volatility, you know
it's and I think staffing rightis a big part of how to do that.
And it is, I feel, likevolatility.
(01:10):
At least a couple of years agoit seemed to be a little bit
more dialed into startup andgrowth stage tech, right when we
seen those violent swings.
But now it just seems theworld's getting crazier and it
seems like that's going toexpand potentially more into mid
marketmarket, into otherindustries.
So it's a time I think a lot offolks are thinking about how do
we prepare for that world.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Totally no, I agree.
Besides, it's not just AI, it'snot just the economy, it's not
just companies trying to beleaner, it's all of these things
together at the same time.
So I feel like for staffing,it's a pretty exciting time and,
like you were saying, forhiring managers it's an
interesting time becauseobviously everyone, I think
higher up is trying to puttogether a strategy of how do we
(01:52):
hire lean, how do we save money, how are we effective, how do
we use AI to hire intelligently,and so yeah, so many things
happening at once.
I think I'm sure that everyonecan say that about their
industry right now.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh yeah, it's not just all those things you
mentioned, and it's also notjust tariffs.
It's also not just cold warsand warm wars and just
everything that's going on inthe world.
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
As a business executive, it's like you're
trying to lean on data and makeanalytical-based decisions based
on past performance, but thenit's like you, everything is.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It just seems like it's changing precedence.
What the heck is normal?
Yeah, wait, totally yeah, man.
Just to start us off, though,which I could already tell by us
already riffing, this is gonnabe a lot of fun, but let's just
back up for a second.
I'd love it if you could tellus a little bit about yourself
yeah, I'm originally from lima,from peru.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I've lived in the states for yeah years now, so
most of my life actually in theStates, and I, more recently,
the last seven years, I've beenliving in Seattle and really
spreading our brand and workingwith a lot of cool companies
there.
Now, like I was telling you,I'm personally moving to Austin,
but our company is fully remote, so we have about a hundred
(03:04):
people right now and that'sreally all of them distributed
throughout some in the U S.
We have four, four or fivepeople in the U S, but most of
our team is in Columbia andArgentina, brazil, mexico, peru,
so all scattered throughoutthroughout LATAM.
But, yeah, I've been runningthis company for yeah, close to
10 years now and yeah, what?
I think that those are like themain things that I usually
(03:26):
start off with, but that's why,the latin america angle for
tecla.
It's really because I'm fromlatin america and most of the
team is too, so yeah that'sawesome, man.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Do you ever visit lima anymore?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I go back two or three times a year and trying to
travel more to meet up with ourteams.
We have a pod system, like likeeveryone works remotely, works
from home, but everyone also wehave a budget and really that we
really try for people to gettogether in their cities and
frequently traveling and meetingup with the teams in different
cities and yeah, it's super fun.
It's definitely for us it'sbeen a really good setup setup.
(04:02):
I know a lot of companies haverecently been returning to
office and stuff and doinghybrid work setups as well, but
for us it's even before thepandemic.
It was always remote for us, soI think we've really learned to
make it, to make it work yeah,it's, and I definitely have a
lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I think my perspective on remote and return
to office has definitelyevolved over the past few years.
Maybe that's a topic we can getinto as well.
It's, yeah, there's lots ofstuff to talk about, but let's
let's just if you could give anoverview on tecla, the services
you offer, the customers youwork with and anything else that
you would feel is important interms of what makes you guys
(04:40):
great at what you do, or someanything that, like potential
people would consider you guyswould want to know great at what
you do, or anything that, like,potential people would consider
you guys would want to know?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, no.
So, like I mentioned, we've gotabout 10 years in this space
and basically what we do is webuild near shore engineering
teams for startups and techsoftware companies in the US.
So most of our clients aregrowth stage startups.
So I would say most of themhave some sort of funding, most
of them are VC backed, but wework with quite a bit that are
(05:10):
bootstrapped or that are doingconsulting or agency type of
work.
But, yeah, most of our clientsI think are growth stage
startups series A, b, C and thenmid-market companies.
A few well-known brands too theMLS, major League Soccer that's
a company that we work with andthere's a few brands like that.
But I think most of our clientsare engineering teams at
companies that are reallylooking to make the most out of
(05:31):
their hiring, and so Nearshoreis a good setup for them.
And, yeah, we run a fully.
As I was telling you beforethat we started.
It's a fully managed type ofservice.
The teams that we build arefully integrated with our
clients, so to our clients theyreally feel like any other team
member, but in the background webasically take care of
(05:52):
everything.
So if a company is looking tobuild a team of five engineers
in LATAM, we'll introduce themto candidates that are in our
network, have been pre-vetted,pre-screened by our team, have a
profile on our platform, andwe'll basically do a fully
managed white glove service allthe way to where, when they're
ready to hire, and so when theybasically select who they want
(06:15):
to bring onto the team, we'llalso have a team that manages
all of the employment stuff thelegal, the contracts, the HR,
success management, that likesort of performance support that
we like to give companies tomake sure that everyone's on the
same page, and so, yeah, sobasically we handle everything
except the actual projectmanagement of whatever the team
(06:35):
is doing.
That is handled by our clients,and so that's pretty much how we
work, and I'd say that whatmakes us different is we're
definitely more recently takingon a big focus on AI and so
really trying to uncover thebest, the engineers that have
the best knowledge with AI, butalso training our teams and
investing in tools and resourcesthat candidates can use to get
(06:58):
up to speed, because it seemslike companies are very much
focused on hiring people thatcan be 10x productivity by
augment, by leveraging AI.
That and our vetting process.
Like we really do quite a bitin terms of, like English
testing, soft skills, technicalskills, any other sort of
assessment that we think is agood fit.
So I think that's whatcompanies like the most.
(07:19):
I think most of our clients arelooking for a turnkey service
think most of our clients arelooking for a turnkey service
Like we want.
We want to make sure we'reinterviewing the best people and
we want to make sure that, oncewe're ready, you guys will
handle everything in thebackground and we don't have to
worry about EORs or deal andcontracts and the benefits and
how much is it going to cost atthe very end, because I think a
lot of companies are typicallysurprised by how much some of
(07:41):
the EORs cost at the very end,like the full sort of ticket.
So yeah, so that's basicallywhat we do.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Cool and just so everybody knows tuning in EORs.
Can you tell me exactly whatthat means?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, companies like Deal, oyster, Remotecom,
employers of Record yeah, yeah,that's what I meant, employers
of Record.
Yeah, yeah, so we handle thatas part of our service instead
of companies having to gothrough the stack independently.
Right, find a recruiter, thenfind an EOR, then find an HR
person who's going to manage theteam, and we just blend all of
(08:14):
that in.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah for sure, okay, yeah, that sounds good and
something I'm very familiar withmy services company that I
started about a decade ago aswell, secure Vision, provides
embedded recruiting and RPOsolutions, recruitment process
outsourcing, but embeddedrecruiting it sounds probably
similar to what you're doing interms of engineering and it
depends.
We have customers where we'reliterally we oversee talent
(08:38):
acquisition, we have head oftalent in place, managing the
solution end to end, and then wehave like bigger customers
right, where it's a differentpoint of impact, right, or a
smaller customer that maybedoesn't need that much support,
where we're really just pluggingin a high performing recruiter.
Our model is we bring therecruiters, we bring the
technology needed to recruit, webring, like, the best practices
(09:00):
and process and, generallyspeaking, it's, I would say,
like more solutions orientedwhere it's okay, there's a
hiring plan.
We got to hire, like they mightsay, we have to hire like 500
engineers, right, okay, here'show many recruiters we're going
to do.
Here's the tech we're bringingto the table, here's the process
we recommend.
We're going to plug these folksin for the next 12 months, and
so it's probably it's probably avery similar emotion to what
(09:20):
you guys are doing.
Yeah, but yeah definitely prettyfamiliar with what yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, I think with that, your type of service, I'm
sure that some companies aremore looking for the final
outcome too.
Right, oh, we were doing all ofthis because we need to
increase headcount by 30, 40people and with us, I think,
most of our clients really justreally measure the results and
based on the and based on theperson's output, but still they
manage like building a productis different than we need to
(09:49):
hire 50 people, which I guesscan be a little more objective,
but yeah, but definitely verysimilar yeah, similar in some
ways, and I think it'd be coolto start about the benefits,
like the near showing going tolatin america.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'm a huge advocate of hiring in latin america for
several reasons.
First and foremost from a priceperspective.
It is a little easier from abudget standpoint for US-based
companies and I frankly I don'tI think probably the best
companies they don't really lookat it as let's pay the least
amount of possible, it's hey,let's come into a market where
the rates are lower than in theUS and let's come in top of
(10:24):
market to get the best people.
And so it is a cost savingmotion to an extent, but it's
also a value creating motions,it's not.
I don't think people shouldlook at it as cost saving.
It's ROI.
It's like how do we get thebest investment and so smart
investments?
There is a cost element right,but there's also like the return
, and the return of getting thebest people in the market is
(10:47):
also huge, right.
So it's.
I think it's that combinationof factors, like kind of pillar
number one or the reason that I,for instance, a part of my team
is in Latin America and that'sa core part.
I was like I want sustainablepricing, I want significant ROI,
I want the best people on myteam.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I totally agree.
I think that obviously, thevalue of having people work in a
real time, in real time modebecause of the time zones, I
think that's a huge plus and,totally to what you were saying,
I think that most of ourclients are coming with that
perspective because, obviously,companies that are looking to
(11:22):
build like a call center with200 people obviously
theilippines, india, there'sstill places that can be a lot
more yeah, a lot cheaper.
But, like you were saying, Ithink that for some teams it
really makes sense to get themost value possible and I think
that's what you can get withlatin yeah, I think the times
(11:42):
are.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Things are really important for you to consider.
Just look, just look.
I built a subsidiary in Romania, in Eastern Europe, and I've
also helped customers build outengineering teams in Poland in
different regions.
Right, we helped a firm AFF,irm but then tech company.
First we helped them hire 500people in the United States.
Then the tech market crashed,then they moved engineering to
Poland.
(12:03):
Then the tech market crashed,then they moved engineering to
Poland.
We helped them with that too.
Look, reality is like somethingis lost a lot of the times at
scale with different time zones.
I still have a few folks inEastern Europe and they're
incredible and they've been withme almost a decade, but I don't
see it as a solid scalestrategy.
(12:23):
Typically, I think the moretransactional the work, the more
junior level the work, the morepotentially it's okay.
But there is still things thatit's hard to operate very
quickly and in an organizationwhere folks are operating in
different time zones, thereality too, it's like when you
start to look at and this islike something that I think a
lot of people miss when it comesto the time zone, it's like
(12:47):
you're it's harder to get mid tosenior level people because if
they're more competitive on themarket, if they're senior level,
they're at that point they'reprobably going to have kids,
they're probably going to have ahome life, they're going to be
trying to balance those thingsand so your talent pool of
people that are going to bewilling to do that, even if you
pay them more money yeah isgoing to shrink significantly.
(13:10):
And that was a problem that wehad in romania, where it's look,
I could offer folks some folkslike even almost close to double
, and it was like, look, I justI'm not gonna do that, and so
you get limited.
Now you get the ambitious kidin their 20s, sure, but it's
just.
I think it also depends on,like, the seniority too.
Like I think for, for instance,like for some SDR motions,
(13:32):
legion motions, okay, you canget folks that are junior level,
put them through a three weekbootcamp, put them on a customer
account or whatever it was,just have them start to reach
out to customers, whatever thatmodel, I think, that kind of
transactional junior levelmotion, just where it's like
you're just go junior levelpeople and maybe they make it,
maybe they don't, and you'rejust like funneling new pipeline
(13:53):
.
Maybe that works, but for for Idon't know, I think, seniority,
at the end of the day, what I'msaying is a long-winded way of
me saying I think if it's mid tosenior level roles, time zone
really starts to matter more.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, definitely, and I mean I do think that not to
generalize, but having been inand provide ideas and challenge
and be a part of the team in howUS companies, I think, work,
where people can be outspokenand there's a collaborative way
of getting to the best productpossible or the best ideas
possible, and I think that iseasier sometimes in certain
(14:41):
countries.
I do think that you can findpeople that are more willing to
take on that role, and othertimes I think it's like you were
saying, teams where you'reputting on a hundred person team
to do something a bit moretransactional and it is maybe
because we were talking a littlebit about AI is those are the
types of things that companiesare wondering how that's going
(15:03):
to affect some of thosestrategies.
So, hey, we need 100 people,very low cost, to do this type
of mechanical, turk type ofchore, and I think that's what I
think we're seeing a lot ofcompanies try to use AI for very
quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And it's interesting though, for the outsourcing,
low-cost labor versus AI.
There are certain regions ofthe world, though, like where
salaries are still less than theAI solutions right.
So that is still is somethingthat was counterintuitive to me,
but something that's come up ina few conversations lately
where it's like there's stilllike this balancing act because
(15:41):
a lot of these AI solutions liketheir pricing is based on usage
right, like the api calls,because most of them like
they're not building aialgorithms, like at that
foundational level, like they'releveraging tools like chat, gbt
or open ai's api's right, andso whenever there's a call made
to the systems, like it's likethere's a usage pricing that is
(16:01):
occurring and so a lot of theseorganizations it's certainly a
lot cheaper than, I would say,us talent, near shore talent.
But there are some regions ofthe world for super
transactional work where, at ajunior level, the AI solutions
are going to still come in at ahigher price point level.
(16:23):
The AI solutions are going tostill come in at a higher price
point.
So that'll just be interestingto see over time how much lower
are those usage costs going tobe from those API calls, because
most of the AI agents, the vastmajority of AI products being
built, are at that application,at that AI agent level and
leveraging open AI stuff likethat.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's still a little bit of a
longer term investment for thecompanies that are trying to go
with the agentic model insteadof okay, let's say that they are
using that to replace certainteams that they had offshore.
I think it's still.
We're still not there yet and,like you were saying, a lot of
the usage, too, is thrown awayon top of it, too, like it is
(16:59):
expensive, and a lot of it youhave to throw away because you
have to do multiple times torefine to get the level of
product that or the level ofoutcome that you are trying to
we're trying to get.
Yeah, I think it's still in the.
I haven't talked to manyfounders or companies that have
are using a GenTech AI which islike where it's like completely
replaced a department or likesomething that they were doing
(17:22):
wholly, but but I think that'sdefinitely.
I think CEOs are trying to belike the first ones to be able
to do that Right, because thenthey can get some advantage for
a bit.
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, it is really fascinating.
Yeah, I getting back to justseeing if there's anything else
on the Latin America benefits,right, so we talked about ROI.
As opposed to just thinkingcost savings, thinking in terms
of ROI, I think Latin America isthe best.
We talked about culture.
I agree.
I think Latin America cultureand United States culture mesh
(17:56):
very well in many different ways.
I think behaviorally, the waythat top performers, executives
in the United States think verymuch so aligns with top
performers and executives inLatin America.
I think that I think there's alot and I think, of course, you
can find folks that arebehaviorally and culturally
aligned anywhere in the worldLike you can.
It's just about likeprobability.
There's just more.
(18:17):
I think like I think LatinAmerica, you more I think like I
think latin america, you'remore likely to consistently find
people where it's a good mesh.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
yeah yeah, exactly that's what we've.
That's what we've always seen,and we work with a lot of
companies that are interviewingfolks in the us and also in
other countries, and so I thinkthat we've always seen that,
that comparison, and have seenthe the actual proof of that.
But, yeah, definitely still,like you were saying, roi,
(18:47):
especially for projects whereit's a growing company and
you're building a really cuttingedge product.
I feel like you're getting agreat deal hiring very senior
people in Latam, and that'swhere I think you get the most
ROI.
Or that arbitrage is when youcan find someone that has 10
plus years of experience and isactually just a super senior
engineer that if they were inthe US, that would be making
(19:09):
hundreds of thousands and bigcom packages and all this.
I think that's where you seethe biggest advantage and I
think that's going to still bethe case.
But especially with AI, becauseI think that's going to decrease
some of that arbitrage for,like, more junior stuff.
Right, if, like, it's someonein the US that can use AI to put
out five times the output, thenall of a sudden that arbitrage
might be a little bit less withjunior people in LATAM or using
(19:34):
AI or something like that, butthat's yet to be seen, I think.
But definitely for the seniorlevel roles.
I feel like that's wherecompanies are like wow, this is
the difference is crazy, causeit just as you go up that
seniority level, I feel likethat's it gets exponential.
I think right, cause finding aperson like that in the U?
S is impossible, whereas if youput up a junior posting for a
developer in the U S like youwill get a lot of candidates.
So I think we can't lie toourselves.
(19:56):
There's a lot of candidateslooking for work here, yeah for
sure, For sure.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I have folks in Latin America that are earning like
US salaries.
I mean, I just I want the bestpeople.
I do like some of therecruiters that I have that I
know are in Latin America.
I know they're literally likethe top recruiters in Latin
America and also it's I don't.
(20:27):
I don't know if this is the wayit is on the engineering side
too, but it's a lot of what wedo is very much so referral
based, it kind of like backchanneling based, where it's
like we're talking with onerecruiter and we're like all
right, who do you know?
And it's that's how we'vereally built out the team and we
have hired people like fromcold outreach.
But a lot of it's like topplayers know other top players
and yeah, there's a big enoughtalent pool to be able to scale
it, but it's also small enoughfor people know each other, like
(20:47):
they, they know the other andlike recruiters that supported
premier kind of top notchus-based tech companies and so
yeah and like, at least with ourbusiness, I feel like the first
line of the first strategy iswhich region you're going to be
hiring in.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
And, like we were saying, latam is a great one and
obviously a lot of companiesare onto it already, so it's
like old news.
But the second one is the rightpartner and the right company.
And, at least in terms of Teclaand how we work, we don't start
billing the client until theperson is working.
So there's no search fee,there's no fees to get started
to look at candidates, tointerview or even to hire.
(21:27):
And so a lot of the times whencompanies come to me, they're
talking to us and they say, oh,we're interviewing a few
companies, I'm like that's greatbecause really like that's the
second line of, okay, you'vepicked latam.
But the second line is you makesure you work with the right
company.
But a lot of the times I'lltell them like, start
interviewing people that thiscompany can actually intro you
(21:49):
to, because a lot of companies,everyone will say they have the
best talent.
Right, Everyone's going to saythat.
But there actually is a bigvariance between who companies
can introduce.
I'd say, at least in theengineering space, like we've
worked with a lot of companiesthat came to us and we're like,
look, we've been trying to fillthis for six months and we get
scared because we're like, crap,that might be a client that is
just super picky and reallyisn't looking to hire.
(22:11):
But then we started workingwith them and they're like, oh,
like we, this is the type ofcandidate we were looking to
interview.
So, like those hard to fillengineering positions, those are
my favorite, because I do knowthat the 30 other recruiters in
LATAM for engineering talentthey can't fill those roles.
Like they might be able to findyou a mid-level React developer
(22:33):
I think probably a lot ofcompanies can.
But yeah, those hard to fillare still like a competitive
advantage, but you don't know ituntil you start interviewing
people.
So I always tell companies like, actually interview people with
that company, because otherwiseyou're really just getting sold
on potential of them having thebest talent, which everyone
will say.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I think it's also.
It's like that's really whereyour audience like services.
You got to evaluate, in myopinion, opinion, you got to
understand who's in theleadership seat, like you got
whose point.
Who's making the decisions onthe delivery side?
Is it the chief customerofficer, coo, ceo, who's doing
it?
and what's their methodologylike?
(23:15):
How do they approach operations, onboarding customers,
transitions of staff members?
It's really the execution, Ithink, at that delivery, lead,
delivery, executive level.
That should really dictatewhich vendor you ultimately move
forward with.
Senior engineers.
They're hard to find but, likeultimately, with the right
(23:39):
system and process, should beable to plug in If somebody
transitions out due to personalreasons or they accept another
job or whatever.
It shouldn't be a big deal.
Like the right services companyshould be running effectively
enough where they can plugsomebody else in and not skip a
beat.
That's one of the things too.
It's like cause we work withpeople.
Our businesses are peoplebusinesses and people can be
(24:01):
unpredictable.
You could hire like a seniorengineer with 10 years of
experience who's delivered onpast customers can get
references from previous directmanagers.
Everybody says the greatestengineer they've ever worked
with.
They can go on a customeraccount and a lot, because
people enter different chaptersin life.
There's just things happenright, like sometimes stuff
doesn't work.
So what I tell customers islike we happen right, Like
(24:26):
sometimes stuff doesn't work.
So what I tell customers islike we usually get it right.
We usually get it right, butsometimes the difference between
a good agency and a greatagency is what an agency does
when it doesn't go right.
How do you manage that and howdo you manage it and protect the
customer?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
That's the type of stuff where it's I don't know if
they all, like folks,necessarily think about it that
way, but when I'm evaluatingservice like services companies,
it's I want to know who'srunning the show on the delivery
side.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That's going to that's going to inform me on
what it's going to be like towork with them Exactly.
I think that companies that havevery good processes, those are
the type of companies that, whenit comes to people and staffing
, I think that those are goingto be like long term long term
better, better partners.
And yeah, we've talked to a lotof clients that come to us and
they say we already have a teamin LATAM, but, like our current
partner, maybe they haveretention problems or maybe
(25:09):
scaling is quite common too,where they're like, yeah, like
we build a team of two or three,but it seems like we can't
scale with this company for somereason, and so we've heard that
quite a bit too.
So, yeah, definitely, companyfor some reason, and so we've
heard that quite a bit too.
So, yeah, definitely, it's likethe space is so commoditized
but at the same time, it's likeit's people business.
So the, the you have to findthe best people, not just the
(25:32):
end outcome, like the finalcandidate, but work with the
best people as like a partneryeah for sure, man.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I couldn't agree more .
It's.
It is a commoditized space andI don't think we should be
holding ourselves up.
It's not.
I think it's.
There are senses likedifferentiators, but let's be
real.
What really differentiates agreat service company, it's
people business, it's the people, it's the process, it's how the
company is operating.
That's like I, and I believe inthis model through and through.
(25:59):
Like I'm building up anoutbound sales team for secure
vision, my services company, andI'm leveraging a firm like ours
that does that, does this, forsales development and account
executives.
Right, that does an embeddedmodel.
And the way I chose it was notby going on a bunch of websites
and looking at littledifferentiators when it's how
(26:21):
legitimate are they?
It was okay.
Who's running the show?
I got introduced to somebodythat I knew produced results for
a CRO that was very successful.
That's an advisor to my company.
It's like I'm on the phonedirectly with a co-founder of
this, of this organization, andwe're talking strategy and I'm
seeing how much I'm learningfrom him and I'm looking at
(26:41):
things like how responsive theyare, how urgent, like their
sense of urgency, those types ofthings to, and what their
onboarding plan is to reallydecide okay, is this the right
provider?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Are they looking out for me?
Are they just telling me what Iwant to hear?
Are they also telling me aboutrisk, like when you're saying,
like interview people beforeplacing them, like that creates
another layer for you to deliveron right, because then you have
to do that.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But it's also a trust building motion where you're
like, hey, we're going to showyou what we got exactly yeah,
yeah, once we get like a clientto actually go through a process
, then they see how easy it isand the level of talent they can
interview.
Then they're like, oh, theseguys are actually able to
deliver on what they'repromising.
And I think, like to what youwere saying, like it's the
opportunity.
Cost is something thatsometimes I think that the
(27:27):
people overlook.
Right, they're like looking tobe within a specific hourly rate
.
They're looking to be maybefind the partner that is the
cheapest or that is gonna getthem the best cost advantage,
but then you know it's gonnatake you three more months to
hire someone.
That maybe you're not to beable to scale past that.
One or two people maybe they'llleave.
They have retention problems,like and then all of a sudden
(27:49):
your competitors are buildingtheir product way faster and
then they get to market and thenthey make millions and millions
of dollars more than you did,and all because you were trying
to save like $5 an hour and solike a lot.
Like sometimes you do deal withclients that are so focused on
what's the markup exactly, likehow much are you making?
And it's while company, whileyou're doing that like your
(28:09):
competitors already, likeworking with senior people and
especially right now with AI,it's like so many companies are
trying to work very fast inintegrating some of these AI
technologies and building new AItechnologies and it's, I think
but it's always been the case intech Like you have this
opportunity, cost that it's oh.
You can't just eventually hireand eventually get to the
(28:31):
product to where you need it tobe Cause it's okay, there's 10
other tools that are likebuilding faster than you, and
it's always been like that.
I don't think that's new, butbut obviously with like how much
companies are trying to be leanand profitable, I think it's
creating sometimes this hyperfocus on maybe saving a few
bucks an hour instead of okay,now, like you don't have those
(28:52):
three senior engineers to bebuilding, and that just
compounds.
Like you don't have them, sothen you can't get to that next
milestone, so then you can'thire more salespeople to get
more clients, to get morerevenue, and then hire more
engineers and grow and itcompounds.
And I've been seeing it becausewe're hiring go-to-market people
in the US for Tecla and we,like you were saying, we also
(29:12):
use companies like ours and tryto use companies like recruiting
companies and pay those fees tomake sure that we're getting
like the best talent, and fast,because if you make a wrong hire
then all of a sudden you're inQ3 and you've done nothing of
what you were trying to do andthen your competitors are way
ahead.
Yes, it's definitely worth itworking with companies that can
get you the right talent in andfast.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
For sure, man for sure, and I think we had time
for one more topic or somethingthat I would love to dive into
that you actually brought upbefore our call is getting into
evaluating engineering talentfor AI proficiency, yeah, and so
I would love to learn.
I think of a question I have,and I do hire engineers for a
(29:53):
software company that I juststarted, and it's my first time
being a founder of a softwarecompany, which is cool.
But, it's like a newer emotion.
But I am at this point like anengineering hiring manager.
I'm not technical.
I understand it conceptually aswell as I need to to be a CEO.
But I am curious, like how areyou evaluating somebody's
(30:15):
proficiency in AI?
Are you, are you only, do youreally only consider somebody
proficient if they've worked foran AI native product, whether
within a larger organizationbuilding a new AI native product
, or at a AI native like startup?
Or are there other other ways?
Like you don't really care aslong as they're using it and
leveraging it?
Like, how do you think aboutmeasuring somebody's proficiency
(30:36):
?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right now, to give you some like
insight into that, like wereally have a lot of, I would
say that the vast majority ofcompanies coming to us are still
not saying, ok, we need AIcapabilities, we need to vet
this in the job descriptions andeverything like that.
We need to make sure that theyhave this experience.
So that's the truth.
It's like I don't think it'scompletely overtaken like our
(31:00):
hiring process or something likethat it's completely overtaken
like our hiring process orsomething like that.
But but definitely what I'mseeing a lot of is like these
ceos of larger companies arestarting to do that and the
trends how quickly trends movein the tech space, like silicon
valley and everything.
It's like once the seat, likethe ceos of google and meta,
like once the bigger people aresaying this is what we're trying
to do, then all like vcs thensay startups, you have to all do
(31:24):
this in my portfolio, and thenthat's how it all happens.
And so we are like let's saythat about 15% of our current
clients are looking to reallyvet these capabilities.
And yeah, I mean we're workingwith some startups now, actually
, where they've requested thatthey have experience working
with ChatGPT on a daily basisfor code generation or for QA or
(31:44):
for testing and Cursor somereally cool tools that are
coming up in the space that areallowing for faster development,
and I think that's how we'revetting right now is making sure
, first of all, that they do useit on a daily basis, even if
it's just ChatGPT, and then weare now trying to get more into
okay, which tools are you usingLike cursor?
(32:05):
Is it like a full IDE type ofco-pilot, and which tools
specifically?
But at least right now we wantpeople that are using it for
some of like their day-to-day.
I would say.
I think that that's enough forus right now.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, yeah, that's really helpful to know that.
I think that's some solidinsight for folks.
Look, I look.
This has been a ton of fun,Gino.
I've definitely learned somefrom you.
I appreciate your contributionto the show and for our audience
.
I know this is going to be areally valuable episode for
everybody tuning in.
I really appreciate you, man.
Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, thanks so much, man.
It was great meeting you andgreat chatting, and I'll talk to
you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Okay, Sounds good, and hey for everybody tuning in.
Thanks so much for joining usand we'll talk to you soon.
Take care.
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