October 29, 2024 • 41 mins
Building trust is essential to building a successful brand and business. Natalie Doyle Oldfield, author and TEDx Keynote speaker, discusses her strategies for building trust with in potential clients and customers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Companies that have the trust of their customers.
They have the trust of theiremployees.
They have the trust of theirstakeholders, people in the
community.
Well, I'm going to try tofigure out.
How is it, in abusiness-to-business environment
, do customers decide to buy?
You can have the best productin the world, the best process,
(00:21):
the best technology, but itcomes down to the people.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The best way we've acquired our clients is through
having real relationships andactual connections right, Having
real conversations and gettingto the root of their problems as
a business.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, thank you very much for having me on your show,
really delighted to be here.
It's great to be able to talkbusiness with you.
My story, well, the long andshort of it is I spent about 25
years in business, working forsome amazing companies both in
(00:56):
Canada and in the US, and what Ifound is some companies do
really well and others not sowell.
And while working for asoftware company, I decided to
go back to graduate school anddo a master's and I went in
thinking well, I'm going to tryto figure out how is it in a
(01:19):
business to business environment, environment do customers
decide to buy?
And you know, I was trying tofigure out, like why are some
companies so successful andothers are not?
Like what's the single factorthat makes some companies
(01:39):
successful and some not?
And you know, I think we allkind of think about this when
we're looking at companies.
And so I went in to try tofigure out the answer.
So I started on a researchproject and the results really
made my jaw drop.
(02:01):
I was like, wow.
So the answer is companies thathave the trust of their
customers, they have the trustof their employees, they have
the trust of their stakeholders,people in the community, it all
comes down to trust.
It's truly the single factorthat makes companies successful,
(02:24):
and when you have what I calltrust equity it's a term that I
coined a long time ago when Iwas doing my research in 2011.
When you have trust equity, youhave more customers, higher
revenue, employees that areengaged and you have repeat
(02:45):
business business and yourclients give you recommendations
.
So I created a framework whileI was in university doing my
master's, while I was workingfull-time, and an evidence-based
framework that shows that whenyou are trusted, you have all
(03:07):
these other benefits you haveloyalty, you have growth and
engagement and retention andinnovation.
So that's kind of, in a reallyshort way of describing my
backstory.
I just got so curious about itbecause I had taken over a role
(03:34):
in this company of sales and Ireally didn't know how to do
sales, so I thought, oh my gosh,how do I do this?
And went on to figure out okay,it's all about trust and having
relationships of trust.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I definitely agree with that and it's absolutely
true.
In business, I think that'sbeen the best way we've acquired
our clients is through havingreal relationships and actual
connections right, having realconversations and getting to the
root of their problems as abusiness and, you know, taking
time to not price gouge but toactually make sure we're getting
to the main issue of whatthey're trying to get to Right.
(04:10):
So solving problems and complexissues most of the time with a
lot of the stuff we're doing.
But yeah, so tell us a littlebit more about trust and how
business owners can reallyunderstand that a little bit
deeper.
Why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, it's, it's the foundation for everything.
And if you think about businessin its broadest sense, when we
have business challenges orbusiness issues, it doesn't
matter what industry yourlisteners are involved in,
whether you're in constructionor professional services or
products you know you sell aproduct, whether you are a
(04:48):
subscription-based company oryou know one of.
When you have customers thatare lagging on the subscription
or they're not renewing, or youhave sales that maybe are flat,
or you don't have customers thatare not calling you back, you
(05:13):
have declines in revenue butincreases in customer complaints
.
All of those things are signalsor issues or indicators, if you
will, that something is brokenand really what it comes down to
is those are signals that thereis low trust and in every
(05:40):
business we have differentissues happening.
In every business we havedifferent issues happening, but
really it all comes down towhat's causing those and in most
cases it's coming down to theemployees and something
happening.
So for every business, brandon,there are what I call common
(06:05):
critical trust risk points.
So you know there are manydifferent things that businesses
face right.
So critical trust risk point Idefine that as an event or an
activity in a company that caneither build a customer's trust
in you or erode or fracture thecustomer's trust in you.
(06:28):
So things like selling thingswe do not need or want, failure
to admit a mistake or respondingpoorly to a customer complaint,
a safety issue, a privacybreach or security breach it
(06:48):
could be not listening to thecustomer.
It could be failing to act inthe customer's best interest.
You know thinking, well, I'mgoing to push this product even
though it's probably not theright thing for the customer.
All of those are pretty, Iwould say, common, critical
trust risk points.
And what's so significant isthat, for every business, what
(07:12):
all of those things have incommon are people.
For every business, that's thekey right.
You can have the best productin the world, the best process,
the best technology, but itcomes down to the people.
If the people are nottrustworthy and they're not
(07:34):
communicating, behaving andserving you in a trustworthy
fashion, then it breaks down.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
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Speaker 2 (10:05):
And I love that you mentioned that you were in sales
as well, because I have spent alot of time in sales just being
I'm also a police officer, butI like to spend a know, test
that and kind of see, do I trustthis person and what makes me
trust them, you know, and whatreally does work for me, what
gets me to buy, is truly thattransparency and right, showing
me the testimonials and, youknow, just being upfront and
honest with me but being able toshow me the results as well and
(10:26):
also, like the track record,everything that you mentioned.
So for somebody who's B2Byou've worked a lot of it in B2B
Tell us a little bit about someof your horror stories and then
some of your glory stories,some of the best stories.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, horror stories.
So define horror stories.
So what do you mean?
I love that term, but what doyou mean?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So I guess I like that term because in business we
all go through them, andespecially with B2B, it can be
tricky.
You have to definitely maneuverthis niche in a particular way,
and so I guess that's what Iwanted to say is, what's the
worst thing you've seen, so like, what was the craziest chaos in
a business, in a B2B kind ofbusiness or just any business
(11:10):
that you've experienced?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, I've seen a lot of crazy interesting things,
interesting things.
So I mentioned to you before westarted the show that I have a
new book coming out on October29th.
It's called Trusted the ProvenPath to Customer Loyalty and
(11:37):
Business Growth and in that bookis a collection of stories
they're actually real stories ofreal companies and clients that
I've worked with.
I changed the names to make thepeople anonymous, but it's a
collection of stories and thefirst story that was a horror
(12:02):
story for this company that Iworked with and turned into a
great success story after theygot through it is one that I'll
share with you.
So here's an example.
It's an IT company, the verysuccessful, well-known IT
(12:23):
company in North America, andfor those in the IT industry you
would know this brandwell-known company.
There was a technology personin the company who continued to
get promoted and became the CTO.
The chief technology officercontinued to get promoted and
became the CTO, the chieftechnology officer, and after
(12:46):
several years the owner of thecompany decided to retire and he
sold the company to this CTO.
So his name I'll say inquotations is Chris to make him
anonymous.
So Chris was.
He loved the company, he workedon all the technology.
Great guy, really great guy andvery technical, brilliant.
(13:15):
There was an industry conferenceand the company thought you
know what, this is a reallygreat time to introduce Chris as
the new owner, introduce Chrisas the new owner.
And so they invested heavily.
They bought a trade show booth,they sent several people to the
(13:36):
event and they worked reallyhard and they got him on the
stage and he did a presentationand he worked really hard on
that presentation and theyactually hired someone to help
with the speech and he did agreat job.
He was nervous, he's not aprofessional speaker, but he did
a great job and you know what,the audience was really kind and
they, you know, clapped at theend.
I've been told I wasn't in theaudience.
They called me after and youknow he got through the
(14:02):
presentation but then whathappened was after his
presentation, it was the Q&A,and so people are asking him
questions about oh, you're thenew owner now and you're the new
CEO and tell us about this inthe industry, and tell us about
that, just like we do aftersomeone does a presentation.
(14:23):
That, just like we do aftersomeone does a presentation.
And one of the questions, oneof the responses that he gave to
the question.
When they asked about what areyour plans now with the business
as the new owner and this wasin front of all the people in
the industry, including theirclients and prospects and
employees he said, well, thosewho need to know.
(14:44):
And prospects and employees.
He said, well, those who needto know.
No, next question Yep.
Then someone said well, and youcould hear a pin drop,
apparently in the room.
Then someone asked anotherquestion and he said that
doesn't really apply to us.
(15:04):
I know it's an issue in theindustry, but not not for us.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Next question yeah, so he was dodging the questions
and oh boy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So it did not go over well because of the way he
responded and because of histone.
And you know a lot of folkssaid, you know, he's kind of
arrogant and gosh, like he's notvery open and transparent, like
(15:40):
what's happening here, likewhat's happening here and he's
you know his body language andall of his responses came off as
not trustworthy, let's say.
And so what happened is peoplestarted to doubt what the
(16:06):
company was doing and over thenext couple of weeks they had
some fallout.
They had some long-termcustomers that were very
important to the business, notas friendly as they used to be.
They had a couple of companiesand they were a subscription
(16:30):
based, so they wanted to getmonthly managed services fee is
another way of saying it.
And you know, a couple ofmonths later, they, they, he
went out to lunch, the CEO did.
And he went out to lunch, theCEO did this new guy with one of
their largest customers, andthe customer said something like
(17:02):
well, who was a bit standoffishwith him, but he said something
like oh, am all these thingsthat have been happening over
the last few months are I'm theproblem, I'm the reason, because
of the way that I responded.
So you know, step number one iswe have to really understand
(17:25):
that everybody in anorganization has a part to play
in the customer's decision totrust you.
And and we have to realize that, wow, like we all have to look
in the mirror and you know whatare we doing, how are we
communicating, how are webehaving and how are we serving
(17:46):
our customer.
So what he did was veryproactive.
He realized, wow, it's me, likeI'm part of the problem.
He didn't have the soft skills.
He was a brilliant technician,but he just didn't have the soft
skills.
He didn't have the skill set tobuild trust, to open up to be
(18:10):
yeah, to relate to the people.
And so it is a skill set.
And so he went in and I have acorporate program and a group
program that's professionaldevelopment training, and he and
some other folks on theleadership team and people who
weren't on the leadership teambut needed to improve their
(18:32):
skills, learned how to buildtrust.
It's an evidence-based system,it's based on science and
evidence and it's step-by-stepto build, manage and protect
relationships of trust.
So after a few months all theirsales started coming back up
(18:54):
and their relationships startedcoming back up.
But it was.
It was a horror story and youknow, as I mentioned, my book's
coming out October 29.
So I thought about that becauseI've been in the, you know,
reviewing it and talking topeople about my new book and
that's what I opened my bookwith.
That it's, it's, it's askillset and I really believe
(19:17):
it's a leadership imperative andwe can all learn to build
relationships of trust.
Cause for this company Chris'scompany, like he wanted to be
the most trusted in the industrybecause he knew like when we're
the most trusted, it drivesloyalty, it drives revenue
(19:42):
growth new partnershipopportunities, new distributors
in his case.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
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Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yep and to ask you a difficult question related to
trust.
And so you don't have to gettoo political.
But I'm actually curious if youwere to give advice to Donald
Trump and Kamala Harris today onhow to gain the trust of the
people.
Again, you don't have to gettoo political.
Just what would your answer beto anybody really competing for
(21:44):
positions of power to thoseechelons?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, you know I'm Canadian, so I don't have a vote
.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, yes, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
However, I do watch and see what's happening and the
advice I would give to anyonerunning for office, or any
leader of any company ororganization or non-government
organization, is to start withbeing authentic and sincere and,
(22:19):
you know, in the case ofsomeone running for office, show
the public your true self, andI think that that is the most
important thing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I think so too, that that is.
That is the most importantthing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I think we, we buy from people, we trust, we invest
in people, we trust, we votefor people, we trust and and you
know, it's the framework thatthat I've built that's that's I
talk about in my book is itreally comes down to how we
(22:59):
communicate, how we behave andhow we serve, and I would
suggest start by being authenticand showing your real self,
because that's that's key tobehavior is being open and
transparent and just showingpeople.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, I appreciate your answer too, and I think
it's an even more importantanswer because you are Canadian
and you are outside of theUnited States, so I think that
makes it an even better answerin that sense.
And so for leaders in the spacewho are getting into public
speaking, how did you start andwhat would you suggest they do
to get better at that skill,specifically Because it's one of
(23:39):
the hardest skills in the world?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh, I would say practice.
I would say practice and reallyget to know who your audience
is.
That's, that's, those twocombined, so that what you share
, whatever your message is, thatit resonates with the audience
(24:06):
and it's it's, it's, it's youknow, it's relevant to them.
So I think there's two thingsis to get better, is to practice
as much as you can all the time.
I mean, there's lots of waysthat people can practice.
You can practice on, you know,and podcasts, speaking to local,
(24:28):
whatever your local associationor you know, maybe it's a
college class.
Those are all great ways to getsome practice.
And then the second piece isreally understand who your
audience is.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
What was the hardest part for you?
Getting started with publicspeaking?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
What was the hardest part?
Getting over myself.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So would you consider yourself more of an introvert
or an extrovert?
I would consider you more of anextrovert.
I am an extrovert.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I am.
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, I am, I'm chatty , I am, I'm chatty, I love being
around people, I love learningfrom other people and, yeah, I
(25:31):
love learning new things when Italk to other people and I her
name was Romy Vander Mew andhe's or she is a life coach, and
I had asked her a similarquestion and kind of what the
key is to that, and she had asimilar answer.
I was like, okay, do you haveto be an introvert or an
extrovert?
And I'm curious to see whatyour answer is.
Do you?
Is it required to be anextrovert or do you have to put
(25:51):
out to get out there?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh, I don't think so at all.
I don't think so at all.
In fact, I have a client, uh,who is an extremely successful
business owner and, uh, he's anintrovert.
Uh, 100%?
And no, I don't I.
(26:15):
I think that, you know, we'reall a little bit different,
right?
We all learn differently.
Some of us, um have differentbat.
We all have differentbackgrounds.
You can be an extrovert and bean a brilliant public speaker.
You could be an extrovert and anot so good public speaker.
You can be a brilliant publicspeaker as an introvert, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
No, I love that answer.
I definitely agree because andI'll and I'll notice that as I
interview different peoplemyself I'm probably more of an
ambivert.
If I'm being honest right, Ihave a little bit of an
introvert in there too, and so Ilove to watch, like a lot of
people in our space,entrepreneurs specifically, and
how different they are.
Right, like Elon Musk, one ofthe wealthy, like the wealthiest
(27:00):
man in the world, but if youlisten to him on a podcast,
you'll hear him stutter all thetime.
He's a very nervous speaker andI've noticed that about him and
then you'll notice somebodylike who's just probably a
starter level entrepreneur whenit comes to comparing to Elon
Musk.
You know a lot of theinfluencers Tai Lopez, gary Vee.
(27:20):
You know Tony Robbins.
You look at them, it's just sonatural for them and you can
really see.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That's one of my favorite things to study with
entrepreneurs is whether or notthey're introverted or
extroverted, and you can reallytell or introverted or
extroverted and you can reallyit's, you can really tell, and
so I think what I find amazingis, sometimes we think it's so
natural and it's so easy forthem.
However, what I often wonder isis it really, or is it that
(27:51):
they're so practiced Right?
So so, and I say that becauseyou know you, it's a skill to be
a great presenter, just likeit's a skill to do a great
podcast, and, and you know,you've learned to do that and
(28:11):
you've bought all the tools andhave the setup to do that In the
Trust Mastery Program that Ioffer, which is a leadership
development program that reallyteaches people how to become, or
how to be, a trusted leader,become a trusted advisor,
(28:32):
trusted leader, and one of themodules in the program is around
communicating to differenttypes of people.
So communicating to people whoare extroverts or introverts,
communicating to people whomight, who have different social
styles or behavioral styles,have different social styles or
(28:53):
behavioral styles, and when wewatch some of these folks who
you're talking about, some ofthem look so like it's so
natural.
It's because they're so skilledat knowing that.
Okay, I'm going to tweak mymessage or my delivery to talk
(29:14):
to someone who is analytical,because I know she really wants
to hear a lot about statisticsand facts and figures, versus
someone else that we may say, oh, they really want to hear about
stories and they want to hearabout testimonials and how the
(29:36):
results worked out for thatcompany.
So it is, I, like you, find itfascinating and my master's that
when I went in to research howis it the customers decide to
buy, and to try to figure outwhat makes some companies
successful and not, is amaster's in communication.
(29:57):
So, like you, I, I, I, I dofind it very interesting and I
have learned, because I'vecoached and worked with so many
leaders over the years, thatthat it really is about knowing
what your style is and thenbeing able to adapt it to the
(30:21):
people that you're presenting to, whether it's presenting
one-on-one or one to you knowthousands.
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Speaker 1 (31:28):
You know thousands.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, so when what's like a really technical thing
that somebody should rememberwhen they're public speaking,
that that you might not realizeuntil you're actually up there
like I like a lot of those whenI've studied public speaking,
for example, or just things likethat, or everybody has their
own style, and so that was oneof the things I realized about
(32:00):
podcasting.
I'm not perfect either, but Inoticed that slowing down was
one thing I noticed.
Right, listening a little bitmore as a podcaster versus
interrupting.
What are some of those littlethings you learned early on as a
public speaker.
That was like whoa, this ishard for me to get good at
training myself to hear how Ispeak and how I say things.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I guess there's a lot ofthings.
So when I'm speaking at acompany event, like a sales
kickoff meeting or an annualstrategic planning session,
whether it's a group of 12people or 800 people, the most
(32:46):
important thing that I do is myhomework, and I think that the
(33:19):
difference between a goodpresenter and a fantastic
presenter comes down to, yes,being skilled as a presenter and
being really great at thedelivery about.
You know how it's delivered,because, really, how, how, how
it said matters right, how wecommunicate matters more than
what we say.
So I I learned very early onthat it it truly is important to
be thinking about and and theaudience more than anything else
, and that's really what I do.
(33:39):
I didn't have a speaking coachtell me that I've hired people
to help me become a betterspeaker.
However, at at the end of it, abetter speaker, however, at the
end of it, I actually reallybelieve in my heart of hearts
that the best speakers are theones that really, really care
(34:01):
about your audience.
I actually believe that I thinkthey care about their audience,
and then you know they're beingsincere and they're being
authentic and they're showingthe audience their true self,
(34:26):
absolutely.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
I mean, yes, it's important toyou know, have a great message
and a great speech and all thatstuff, but I really believe that
sincerity and authenticity andreally wanting to serve the
audience and do the best job forthe audience is the most
(34:48):
important thing.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, and I think I think all of that's perfect, and
especially preparation,practice and preparation right.
Abraham Lincoln had said if yougive me six hours to cut down a
tree, I'll spend the first foursharpening the ax.
So it's one of my favoritequotes and it's very accurate to
how success is able to beobtained when you have those
(35:10):
elements the preparation right,you have the practice, you have
the experiences and theneverything that you had just
mentioned.
And so when you were writingyour book, tell us a little bit
about that experience, becausewhen I was writing my books, I
found it to be.
I thought it was veryliberating and freeing it.
Definitely it was a funexperience for me.
(35:30):
So I guess I want to learn alittle bit about your experience
writing your book experiencefor me.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So I guess I want to learn a little bit about your
experience writing your book.
Well, I published the Power ofTrust how Top Companies Build,
manage and Protect it in 2017.
And this book is a you know, ithas all the theories and the
science and the evidence behindhow my framework was created and
(36:02):
it's got case studies in it andchecklists.
It's you know, as you can see,it's uh, it's a bigger book, um,
and I then wrote the booktrusted this year and it's a
shorter book and it's, like Isaid, it's a collection of real
stories and, uh, it's a veryit's a guide for business owners
(36:26):
and leaders and managers tobuild customer loyalty and and
business growth and, like I said, it's all about being trusted.
It talks about the eightprinciples of trust, and so it
was very rewarding to writebecause I actually wrote about
(36:51):
real stories, the challenges thebusinesses had whether it was
having all these leads in thedoor but nothing translating
into a sale, or having acustomer complain and saying I'm
leaving the company if youdon't replace this person to
companies that lost trust duringCOVID and had to turn it around
(37:13):
to try to regain trust.
And I have another client.
The last story in the book isabout a company that did really
well in COVID because they're inthe building material space and
then after COVID it just sortof leveled out and they had to
figure out what was wrong andwhy they lost the trust.
So it was really rewardingbecause it's they're all true
(37:40):
stories and I shared the resultsof all these companies that
really want to be the mosttrusted, that want to have the
highest market share, that wantto have the customer retention
and the business growth.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I think that's very excellent what you're working on
, and I think it's veryimportant that business owners
do learn more about trust andwhy that is the most important
part about sales.
It really does all come down tothat.
It comes down to making sureyour clients can trust what
you're selling, trust whatyou're saying, because, at the
end of the day, ultimatelypeople you know we're characters
of habit and a lot of thedecisions we make, we make them
(38:21):
because we trust that decision,the food we eat, everything we
do right.
So it's very important as ahuman being to operate at a
functionality where you canprovide that trust to people on
a on a normal, seamlessly basis.
I think that's very important.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was really rewarding andit's like I said, it's a guide.
Each chapter it's a muchshorter book.
Each chapter has framework forcompanies to be able to
(38:56):
implement right away.
It has a section at the end ofeach chapter called making it
happen, so that you canoperationalize and put the
learnings into practice rightaway.
And the other thing that I didin this book that I didn't in my
other book is there are linksthat you can go to my website to
sign up for more information.
So sign up for, as an example,a customer readiness assessment,
(39:21):
or sign up for a poster thatyou can, that you can download
to talk about trust at your nextsales meeting, or to another
download I have is, you know,words that erode trust or
fracture trust versus words andphrases that build trust.
(39:43):
So, you know, I'm hoping that Ihear from people and they
download these things and thereare ways that I can stay in
touch with the readers as well.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Absolutely.
And where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You can find my book Trusted on Amazon and you can
find me on LinkedIn, which ishow we found each other.
I'm Natalie Doyle Oldfield onLinkedIn and my company is
Success Through Trust, so youcan also find me on
successthroughtrustcom.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Awesome, Natalie.
Yes, I definitely want to doanother interview soon.
I definitely want to ask morequestions and talk more about
this stuff.
I think they're importantconversations to have and I
really appreciate you coming onthe show and being patient with
I know we've been back and forthtrying to get on each other's
show, so I know.
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate youcoming on and it's it's been a
(40:41):
great, it's been a greatexperience.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, it's been great to meet you.
Thanks so much for having meand I look forward to seeing you
again soon.
You.
Companies that have the trust of their customers.
They have the trust of theiremployees.
They have the trust of theirstakeholders, people in the
community.
Well, I'm going to try tofigure out.
How is it, in abusiness-to-business environment
, do customers decide to buy?
You can have the best productin the world, the best process,
(00:21):
the best technology, but itcomes down to the people.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The best way we've acquired our clients is through
having real relationships andactual connections right, Having
real conversations and gettingto the root of their problems as
a business.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, thank you very much for having me on your show,
really delighted to be here.
It's great to be able to talkbusiness with you.
My story, well, the long andshort of it is I spent about 25
years in business, working forsome amazing companies both in
(00:56):
Canada and in the US, and what Ifound is some companies do
really well and others not sowell.
And while working for asoftware company, I decided to
go back to graduate school anddo a master's and I went in
thinking well, I'm going to tryto figure out how is it in a
(01:19):
business to business environment, environment do customers
decide to buy?
And you know, I was trying tofigure out, like why are some
companies so successful andothers are not?
Like what's the single factorthat makes some companies
(01:39):
successful and some not?
And you know, I think we allkind of think about this when
we're looking at companies.
And so I went in to try tofigure out the answer.
So I started on a researchproject and the results really
made my jaw drop.
(02:01):
I was like, wow.
So the answer is companies thathave the trust of their
customers, they have the trustof their employees, they have
the trust of their stakeholders,people in the community, it all
comes down to trust.
It's truly the single factorthat makes companies successful,
(02:24):
and when you have what I calltrust equity it's a term that I
coined a long time ago when Iwas doing my research in 2011.
When you have trust equity, youhave more customers, higher
revenue, employees that areengaged and you have repeat
(02:45):
business business and yourclients give you recommendations
.
So I created a framework whileI was in university doing my
master's, while I was workingfull-time, and an evidence-based
framework that shows that whenyou are trusted, you have all
(03:07):
these other benefits you haveloyalty, you have growth and
engagement and retention andinnovation.
So that's kind of, in a reallyshort way of describing my
backstory.
I just got so curious about itbecause I had taken over a role
(03:34):
in this company of sales and Ireally didn't know how to do
sales, so I thought, oh my gosh,how do I do this?
And went on to figure out okay,it's all about trust and having
relationships of trust.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I definitely agree with that and it's absolutely
true.
In business, I think that'sbeen the best way we've acquired
our clients is through havingreal relationships and actual
connections right, having realconversations and getting to the
root of their problems as abusiness and, you know, taking
time to not price gouge but toactually make sure we're getting
to the main issue of whatthey're trying to get to Right.
(04:10):
So solving problems and complexissues most of the time with a
lot of the stuff we're doing.
But yeah, so tell us a littlebit more about trust and how
business owners can reallyunderstand that a little bit
deeper.
Why is that so important?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, it's, it's the foundation for everything.
And if you think about businessin its broadest sense, when we
have business challenges orbusiness issues, it doesn't
matter what industry yourlisteners are involved in,
whether you're in constructionor professional services or
products you know you sell aproduct, whether you are a
(04:48):
subscription-based company oryou know one of.
When you have customers thatare lagging on the subscription
or they're not renewing, or youhave sales that maybe are flat,
or you don't have customers thatare not calling you back, you
(05:13):
have declines in revenue butincreases in customer complaints
.
All of those things are signalsor issues or indicators, if you
will, that something is brokenand really what it comes down to
is those are signals that thereis low trust and in every
(05:40):
business we have differentissues happening.
In every business we havedifferent issues happening, but
really it all comes down towhat's causing those and in most
cases it's coming down to theemployees and something
happening.
So for every business, brandon,there are what I call common
(06:05):
critical trust risk points.
So you know there are manydifferent things that businesses
face right.
So critical trust risk point Idefine that as an event or an
activity in a company that caneither build a customer's trust
in you or erode or fracture thecustomer's trust in you.
(06:28):
So things like selling thingswe do not need or want, failure
to admit a mistake or respondingpoorly to a customer complaint,
a safety issue, a privacybreach or security breach it
(06:48):
could be not listening to thecustomer.
It could be failing to act inthe customer's best interest.
You know thinking, well, I'mgoing to push this product even
though it's probably not theright thing for the customer.
All of those are pretty, Iwould say, common, critical
trust risk points.
And what's so significant isthat, for every business, what
(07:12):
all of those things have incommon are people.
For every business, that's thekey right.
You can have the best productin the world, the best process,
the best technology, but itcomes down to the people.
If the people are nottrustworthy and they're not
(07:34):
communicating, behaving andserving you in a trustworthy
fashion, then it breaks down.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
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Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And I love that you mentioned that you were in sales
as well, because I have spent alot of time in sales just being
I'm also a police officer, butI like to spend a know, test
that and kind of see, do I trustthis person and what makes me
trust them, you know, and whatreally does work for me, what
gets me to buy, is truly thattransparency and right, showing
me the testimonials and, youknow, just being upfront and
honest with me but being able toshow me the results as well and
(10:26):
also, like the track record,everything that you mentioned.
So for somebody who's B2Byou've worked a lot of it in B2B
Tell us a little bit about someof your horror stories and then
some of your glory stories,some of the best stories.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, horror stories.
So define horror stories.
So what do you mean?
I love that term, but what doyou mean?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So I guess I like that term because in business we
all go through them, andespecially with B2B, it can be
tricky.
You have to definitely maneuverthis niche in a particular way,
and so I guess that's what Iwanted to say is, what's the
worst thing you've seen, so like, what was the craziest chaos in
a business, in a B2B kind ofbusiness or just any business
(11:10):
that you've experienced?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, I've seen a lot of crazy interesting things,
interesting things.
So I mentioned to you before westarted the show that I have a
new book coming out on October29th.
It's called Trusted the ProvenPath to Customer Loyalty and
(11:37):
Business Growth and in that bookis a collection of stories
they're actually real stories ofreal companies and clients that
I've worked with.
I changed the names to make thepeople anonymous, but it's a
collection of stories and thefirst story that was a horror
(12:02):
story for this company that Iworked with and turned into a
great success story after theygot through it is one that I'll
share with you.
So here's an example.
It's an IT company, the verysuccessful, well-known IT
(12:23):
company in North America, andfor those in the IT industry you
would know this brandwell-known company.
There was a technology personin the company who continued to
get promoted and became the CTO.
The chief technology officercontinued to get promoted and
became the CTO, the chieftechnology officer, and after
(12:46):
several years the owner of thecompany decided to retire and he
sold the company to this CTO.
So his name I'll say inquotations is Chris to make him
anonymous.
So Chris was.
He loved the company, he workedon all the technology.
Great guy, really great guy andvery technical, brilliant.
(13:15):
There was an industry conferenceand the company thought you
know what, this is a reallygreat time to introduce Chris as
the new owner, introduce Chrisas the new owner.
And so they invested heavily.
They bought a trade show booth,they sent several people to the
(13:36):
event and they worked reallyhard and they got him on the
stage and he did a presentationand he worked really hard on
that presentation and theyactually hired someone to help
with the speech and he did agreat job.
He was nervous, he's not aprofessional speaker, but he did
a great job and you know what,the audience was really kind and
they, you know, clapped at theend.
I've been told I wasn't in theaudience.
They called me after and youknow he got through the
(14:02):
presentation but then whathappened was after his
presentation, it was the Q&A,and so people are asking him
questions about oh, you're thenew owner now and you're the new
CEO and tell us about this inthe industry, and tell us about
that, just like we do aftersomeone does a presentation.
(14:23):
That, just like we do aftersomeone does a presentation.
And one of the questions, oneof the responses that he gave to
the question.
When they asked about what areyour plans now with the business
as the new owner and this wasin front of all the people in
the industry, including theirclients and prospects and
employees he said, well, thosewho need to know.
(14:44):
And prospects and employees.
He said, well, those who needto know.
No, next question Yep.
Then someone said well, and youcould hear a pin drop,
apparently in the room.
Then someone asked anotherquestion and he said that
doesn't really apply to us.
(15:04):
I know it's an issue in theindustry, but not not for us.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Next question yeah, so he was dodging the questions
and oh boy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So it did not go over well because of the way he
responded and because of histone.
And you know a lot of folkssaid, you know, he's kind of
arrogant and gosh, like he's notvery open and transparent, like
(15:40):
what's happening here, likewhat's happening here and he's
you know his body language andall of his responses came off as
not trustworthy, let's say.
And so what happened is peoplestarted to doubt what the
(16:06):
company was doing and over thenext couple of weeks they had
some fallout.
They had some long-termcustomers that were very
important to the business, notas friendly as they used to be.
They had a couple of companiesand they were a subscription
(16:30):
based, so they wanted to getmonthly managed services fee is
another way of saying it.
And you know, a couple ofmonths later, they, they, he
went out to lunch, the CEO did.
And he went out to lunch, theCEO did this new guy with one of
their largest customers, andthe customer said something like
(17:02):
well, who was a bit standoffishwith him, but he said something
like oh, am all these thingsthat have been happening over
the last few months are I'm theproblem, I'm the reason, because
of the way that I responded.
So you know, step number one iswe have to really understand
(17:25):
that everybody in anorganization has a part to play
in the customer's decision totrust you.
And and we have to realize that, wow, like we all have to look
in the mirror and you know whatare we doing, how are we
communicating, how are webehaving and how are we serving
(17:46):
our customer.
So what he did was veryproactive.
He realized, wow, it's me, likeI'm part of the problem.
He didn't have the soft skills.
He was a brilliant technician,but he just didn't have the soft
skills.
He didn't have the skill set tobuild trust, to open up to be
(18:10):
yeah, to relate to the people.
And so it is a skill set.
And so he went in and I have acorporate program and a group
program that's professionaldevelopment training, and he and
some other folks on theleadership team and people who
weren't on the leadership teambut needed to improve their
(18:32):
skills, learned how to buildtrust.
It's an evidence-based system,it's based on science and
evidence and it's step-by-stepto build, manage and protect
relationships of trust.
So after a few months all theirsales started coming back up
(18:54):
and their relationships startedcoming back up.
But it was.
It was a horror story and youknow, as I mentioned, my book's
coming out October 29.
So I thought about that becauseI've been in the, you know,
reviewing it and talking topeople about my new book and
that's what I opened my bookwith.
That it's, it's, it's askillset and I really believe
(19:17):
it's a leadership imperative andwe can all learn to build
relationships of trust.
Cause for this company Chris'scompany, like he wanted to be
the most trusted in the industrybecause he knew like when we're
the most trusted, it drivesloyalty, it drives revenue
(19:42):
growth new partnershipopportunities, new distributors
in his case.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
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Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yep and to ask you a difficult question related to
trust.
And so you don't have to gettoo political.
But I'm actually curious if youwere to give advice to Donald
Trump and Kamala Harris today onhow to gain the trust of the
people.
Again, you don't have to gettoo political.
Just what would your answer beto anybody really competing for
(21:44):
positions of power to thoseechelons?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, you know I'm Canadian, so I don't have a vote
.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh, yes, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
However, I do watch and see what's happening and the
advice I would give to anyonerunning for office, or any
leader of any company ororganization or non-government
organization, is to start withbeing authentic and sincere and,
(22:19):
you know, in the case ofsomeone running for office, show
the public your true self, andI think that that is the most
important thing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I think so too, that that is.
That is the most importantthing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I think we, we buy from people, we trust, we invest
in people, we trust, we votefor people, we trust and and you
know, it's the framework thatthat I've built that's that's I
talk about in my book is itreally comes down to how we
(22:59):
communicate, how we behave andhow we serve, and I would
suggest start by being authenticand showing your real self,
because that's that's key tobehavior is being open and
transparent and just showingpeople.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, I appreciate your answer too, and I think
it's an even more importantanswer because you are Canadian
and you are outside of theUnited States, so I think that
makes it an even better answerin that sense.
And so for leaders in the spacewho are getting into public
speaking, how did you start andwhat would you suggest they do
to get better at that skill,specifically Because it's one of
(23:39):
the hardest skills in the world?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh, I would say practice.
I would say practice and reallyget to know who your audience
is.
That's, that's, those twocombined, so that what you share
, whatever your message is, thatit resonates with the audience
(24:06):
and it's it's, it's, it's youknow, it's relevant to them.
So I think there's two thingsis to get better, is to practice
as much as you can all the time.
I mean, there's lots of waysthat people can practice.
You can practice on, you know,and podcasts, speaking to local,
(24:28):
whatever your local associationor you know, maybe it's a
college class.
Those are all great ways to getsome practice.
And then the second piece isreally understand who your
audience is.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
What was the hardest part for you?
Getting started with publicspeaking?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
What was the hardest part?
Getting over myself.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So would you consider yourself more of an introvert
or an extrovert?
I would consider you more of anextrovert.
I am an extrovert.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I am.
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, I am, I'm chatty , I am, I'm chatty, I love being
around people, I love learningfrom other people and, yeah, I
(25:31):
love learning new things when Italk to other people and I her
name was Romy Vander Mew andhe's or she is a life coach, and
I had asked her a similarquestion and kind of what the
key is to that, and she had asimilar answer.
I was like, okay, do you haveto be an introvert or an
extrovert?
And I'm curious to see whatyour answer is.
Do you?
Is it required to be anextrovert or do you have to put
(25:51):
out to get out there?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh, I don't think so at all.
I don't think so at all.
In fact, I have a client, uh,who is an extremely successful
business owner and, uh, he's anintrovert.
Uh, 100%?
And no, I don't I.
(26:15):
I think that, you know, we'reall a little bit different,
right?
We all learn differently.
Some of us, um have differentbat.
We all have differentbackgrounds.
You can be an extrovert and bean a brilliant public speaker.
You could be an extrovert and anot so good public speaker.
You can be a brilliant publicspeaker as an introvert, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
No, I love that answer.
I definitely agree because andI'll and I'll notice that as I
interview different peoplemyself I'm probably more of an
ambivert.
If I'm being honest right, Ihave a little bit of an
introvert in there too, and so Ilove to watch, like a lot of
people in our space,entrepreneurs specifically, and
how different they are.
Right, like Elon Musk, one ofthe wealthy, like the wealthiest
(27:00):
man in the world, but if youlisten to him on a podcast,
you'll hear him stutter all thetime.
He's a very nervous speaker andI've noticed that about him and
then you'll notice somebodylike who's just probably a
starter level entrepreneur whenit comes to comparing to Elon
Musk.
You know a lot of theinfluencers Tai Lopez, gary Vee.
(27:20):
You know Tony Robbins.
You look at them, it's just sonatural for them and you can
really see.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That's one of my favorite things to study with
entrepreneurs is whether or notthey're introverted or
extroverted, and you can reallytell or introverted or
extroverted and you can reallyit's, you can really tell, and
so I think what I find amazingis, sometimes we think it's so
natural and it's so easy forthem.
However, what I often wonder isis it really, or is it that
(27:51):
they're so practiced Right?
So so, and I say that becauseyou know you, it's a skill to be
a great presenter, just likeit's a skill to do a great
podcast, and, and you know,you've learned to do that and
(28:11):
you've bought all the tools andhave the setup to do that In the
Trust Mastery Program that Ioffer, which is a leadership
development program that reallyteaches people how to become, or
how to be, a trusted leader,become a trusted advisor,
(28:32):
trusted leader, and one of themodules in the program is around
communicating to differenttypes of people.
So communicating to people whoare extroverts or introverts,
communicating to people whomight, who have different social
styles or behavioral styles,have different social styles or
(28:53):
behavioral styles, and when wewatch some of these folks who
you're talking about, some ofthem look so like it's so
natural.
It's because they're so skilledat knowing that.
Okay, I'm going to tweak mymessage or my delivery to talk
(29:14):
to someone who is analytical,because I know she really wants
to hear a lot about statisticsand facts and figures, versus
someone else that we may say, oh, they really want to hear about
stories and they want to hearabout testimonials and how the
(29:36):
results worked out for thatcompany.
So it is, I, like you, find itfascinating and my master's that
when I went in to research howis it the customers decide to
buy, and to try to figure outwhat makes some companies
successful and not, is amaster's in communication.
(29:57):
So, like you, I, I, I, I dofind it very interesting and I
have learned, because I'vecoached and worked with so many
leaders over the years, thatthat it really is about knowing
what your style is and thenbeing able to adapt it to the
(30:21):
people that you're presenting to, whether it's presenting
one-on-one or one to you knowthousands.
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Speaker 1 (31:28):
You know thousands.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, so when what's like a really technical thing
that somebody should rememberwhen they're public speaking,
that that you might not realizeuntil you're actually up there
like I like a lot of those whenI've studied public speaking,
for example, or just things likethat, or everybody has their
own style, and so that was oneof the things I realized about
(32:00):
podcasting.
I'm not perfect either, but Inoticed that slowing down was
one thing I noticed.
Right, listening a little bitmore as a podcaster versus
interrupting.
What are some of those littlethings you learned early on as a
public speaker.
That was like whoa, this ishard for me to get good at
training myself to hear how Ispeak and how I say things.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I guess there's a lot ofthings.
So when I'm speaking at acompany event, like a sales
kickoff meeting or an annualstrategic planning session,
whether it's a group of 12people or 800 people, the most
(32:46):
important thing that I do is myhomework, and I think that the
(33:19):
difference between a goodpresenter and a fantastic
presenter comes down to, yes,being skilled as a presenter and
being really great at thedelivery about.
You know how it's delivered,because, really, how, how, how
it said matters right, how wecommunicate matters more than
what we say.
So I I learned very early onthat it it truly is important to
be thinking about and and theaudience more than anything else
, and that's really what I do.
(33:39):
I didn't have a speaking coachtell me that I've hired people
to help me become a betterspeaker.
However, at at the end of it, abetter speaker, however, at the
end of it, I actually reallybelieve in my heart of hearts
that the best speakers are theones that really, really care
(34:01):
about your audience.
I actually believe that I thinkthey care about their audience,
and then you know they're beingsincere and they're being
authentic and they're showingthe audience their true self,
(34:26):
absolutely.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
I mean, yes, it's important toyou know, have a great message
and a great speech and all thatstuff, but I really believe that
sincerity and authenticity andreally wanting to serve the
audience and do the best job forthe audience is the most
(34:48):
important thing.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, and I think I think all of that's perfect, and
especially preparation,practice and preparation right.
Abraham Lincoln had said if yougive me six hours to cut down a
tree, I'll spend the first foursharpening the ax.
So it's one of my favoritequotes and it's very accurate to
how success is able to beobtained when you have those
(35:10):
elements the preparation right,you have the practice, you have
the experiences and theneverything that you had just
mentioned.
And so when you were writingyour book, tell us a little bit
about that experience, becausewhen I was writing my books, I
found it to be.
I thought it was veryliberating and freeing it.
Definitely it was a funexperience for me.
(35:30):
So I guess I want to learn alittle bit about your experience
writing your book experiencefor me.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So I guess I want to learn a little bit about your
experience writing your book.
Well, I published the Power ofTrust how Top Companies Build,
manage and Protect it in 2017.
And this book is a you know, ithas all the theories and the
science and the evidence behindhow my framework was created and
(36:02):
it's got case studies in it andchecklists.
It's you know, as you can see,it's uh, it's a bigger book, um,
and I then wrote the booktrusted this year and it's a
shorter book and it's, like Isaid, it's a collection of real
stories and, uh, it's a veryit's a guide for business owners
(36:26):
and leaders and managers tobuild customer loyalty and and
business growth and, like I said, it's all about being trusted.
It talks about the eightprinciples of trust, and so it
was very rewarding to writebecause I actually wrote about
(36:51):
real stories, the challenges thebusinesses had whether it was
having all these leads in thedoor but nothing translating
into a sale, or having acustomer complain and saying I'm
leaving the company if youdon't replace this person to
companies that lost trust duringCOVID and had to turn it around
(37:13):
to try to regain trust.
And I have another client.
The last story in the book isabout a company that did really
well in COVID because they're inthe building material space and
then after COVID it just sortof leveled out and they had to
figure out what was wrong andwhy they lost the trust.
So it was really rewardingbecause it's they're all true
(37:40):
stories and I shared the resultsof all these companies that
really want to be the mosttrusted, that want to have the
highest market share, that wantto have the customer retention
and the business growth.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I think that's very excellent what you're working on
, and I think it's veryimportant that business owners
do learn more about trust andwhy that is the most important
part about sales.
It really does all come down tothat.
It comes down to making sureyour clients can trust what
you're selling, trust whatyou're saying, because, at the
end of the day, ultimatelypeople you know we're characters
of habit and a lot of thedecisions we make, we make them
(38:21):
because we trust that decision,the food we eat, everything we
do right.
So it's very important as ahuman being to operate at a
functionality where you canprovide that trust to people on
a on a normal, seamlessly basis.
I think that's very important.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was really rewarding andit's like I said, it's a guide.
Each chapter it's a muchshorter book.
Each chapter has framework forcompanies to be able to
(38:56):
implement right away.
It has a section at the end ofeach chapter called making it
happen, so that you canoperationalize and put the
learnings into practice rightaway.
And the other thing that I didin this book that I didn't in my
other book is there are linksthat you can go to my website to
sign up for more information.
So sign up for, as an example,a customer readiness assessment,
(39:21):
or sign up for a poster thatyou can, that you can download
to talk about trust at your nextsales meeting, or to another
download I have is, you know,words that erode trust or
fracture trust versus words andphrases that build trust.
(39:43):
So, you know, I'm hoping that Ihear from people and they
download these things and thereare ways that I can stay in
touch with the readers as well.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Absolutely.
And where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
You can find my book Trusted on Amazon and you can
find me on LinkedIn, which ishow we found each other.
I'm Natalie Doyle Oldfield onLinkedIn and my company is
Success Through Trust, so youcan also find me on
successthroughtrustcom.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Awesome, Natalie.
Yes, I definitely want to doanother interview soon.
I definitely want to ask morequestions and talk more about
this stuff.
I think they're importantconversations to have and I
really appreciate you coming onthe show and being patient with
I know we've been back and forthtrying to get on each other's
show, so I know.
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate youcoming on and it's it's been a
(40:41):
great, it's been a greatexperience.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, it's been great to meet you.
Thanks so much for having meand I look forward to seeing you
again soon.
You.
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