September 25, 2025 • 29 mins
The digital revolution in education is happening right now, and AI literacy has surged to become the #1 skill employers demand. With 70% of job skills projected to change by 2030, our conversation with Mike Todasco couldn't be more timely or crucial for parents and educators navigating this shifting landscape.
Mike brings a rare dual perspective as both a visiting fellow at San Diego State University's AI Center and father of two school-aged children. His insights bridge the technical sophistication of artificial intelligence with the practical realities of raising children in a world where over 22% of kids aged 8-12 already use generative AI tools—many unable to distinguish between AI and human content.
Throughout our discussion, Mike unpacks the delicate balance between embracing AI's educational potential and protecting children's cognitive development. We share compelling research about reduced prefrontal cortex activity when students rely on AI for writing tasks, alongside stories of remarkable progress when AI tutors are thoughtfully implemented. The contrast is stark and highlights the importance of intentional implementation.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable are the practical applications. From using voice mode in ChatGPT during car rides to create personalized learning experiences, to implementing retrieval augmented generation (RAG) systems that minimize AI "hallucinations," Mike offers tangible strategies that work both in classrooms and at home. His suggestion to dedicate specific portions of curricula to AI literacy while preserving traditional instruction for foundational skills provides a balanced framework any educator can adapt.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is his examination of children forming emotional attachments to AI companions programmed to be unfailingly supportive—raising profound questions about healthy relationship development in an increasingly AI-integrated world. As Mike puts it, "This is what scares me the most."
Whether you're a teacher redesigning curriculum, a parent guiding digital natives, or simply curious about education's AI-powered future, this conversation provides the clarity and practical wisdom needed to ensure technology serves learning rather than diminishes it. The question isn't whether AI will transform education—it's whether we'll shape that transformation to truly benefit our children.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (00:00):
As generative AI shapes the way we live and
learn, there's a strong need forresources and guidance to help
educators and parents navigateAI's potential while protecting
children's learning, safety andwell-being.
Join us today for an insightfuldual-lens conversation with
technologist and father MikeTodasco.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research, innovation
(00:31):
and resources.
I'm your host, Dr Lisa Hassler,here to enlighten and brighten
the classrooms in Americathrough focused conversation on
important topics in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we, as teachers and
parents, are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:51):
student outcomes?
How will AI impact children'seducation?
Well, AI literacy is now thenumber one skill employers
demand.
Linkedin's 2025 data shows AIliteracy topping employer
demands, while 70% of job skillswill change by 2030.
To best prepare students tomeet this demand, the executive
order Advancing ArtificialIntelligence Education for
(01:13):
American Youth was released inApril.
Now, as this sits in the lap ofthe education field to
implement, teachers are in needof professional development and
reliable resources toeffectively teach the required
AI literacy skills to theirstudents, while integrating AI
across all their subject areas,starting in kindergarten, as
(01:34):
parents are unsure how theirchildren are even using
generative AI, they also haven'thad significant conversations
about its appropriate use,expressing growing concerns
regarding their children'ssafety and well-being amid
cyberbullying, scams and rampantmisinformation.
The statistics are striking.
The Alan Turing Institute foundthat over 22% of children aged
(01:56):
8 to 12 are already usinggenerative AI tools like ChatGPT
and Gemini, many without theability to distinguish between
AI and human content.
As alarming as this is, arecent National Parents Union
survey reveals more parentinsights.
Their biggest concern is thattheir children will rely too
much on AI, thereby reducingtheir learning, and the MIT-led
(02:18):
study your Brain on ChatGPTAccumulation of Cognitive Debt
when Using an AI Assistant forEssay Writing Task supports that
concern, with findings ofprefrontal cortex activity
reduction impacting learning andcognitive skills among
participants who use ChatGPT foressay writing.
Schools and parents need to worktogether now more than ever to
(02:41):
educate children in AI literacyand thinking skills to ensure
that AI integration servesstudent-centered learning, while
maintaining ethical safeguardsand protecting student
well-being Through a coordinatedhomeschool approach to
technology integration.
Academic achievement anddigital citizenship can nurture
the next generation of AIinnovators and advance
(03:02):
scientific achievement, andthat's why I'm so thrilled to
welcome Mike Todasco, a visitingfellow at the AI Center at San
Diego State University and aformer senior director of
innovation at PayPal.
With a background in AIinnovation and as a parent of
two school-aged children, Mikeis here to bridge the AI gap
between home and school, givingparents and teachers confidence
(03:24):
to guide children through thiscomplex and evolving field.
Welcome to the show, MichaelLove to jump into this
conversation.
It's so timely.
Mike Todasco (03:32):
No, absolutely Lisa.
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:34):
So you are a visiting fellow at the AI Center
in San Diego State University.
What is it that you do as avisiting fellow?
Mike Todasco (03:42):
Kind of whatever I want to, which makes it an
awesome job.
A fellow doesn't have any realresponsibilities.
In many ways, the things I do,I get to teach, whether they're
classes or guest lecture orteach seminars I'm doing one on
AI and accounting, for example.
I do even free ones for thepublic, like later this week
(04:02):
I'll be doing one on LinkedInLive about using AI for program
management.
So I teach a lot of stuff.
I mentor students, I writeabout AI things a lot and also
do research.
Specifically, my area ofinterest is human perceptions of
AI created versus human createdwork and how that changes based
on cultures, and how thatchanges over time.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (04:24):
And what have you seen with that?
Do people like it?
Mike Todasco (04:27):
People don't like AI stuff as the big headline In
the research.
You know, it's slightlydeceitful in some ways because
usually what I'll do is dosomething like give a text and
say, hey, this was written byJane Doe or this was written by
an AI, and see how people rateit in both scenarios, even
though it's the exact samepassage.
You know, the biases seem to begreatest in the United States
(04:50):
and some other Western places.
Japan and others, for example,don't have that same level of
bias.
But this is something we'rejust starting to do now, but
we're going to continually trackand understand, because the
world we're moving into is onewhere people are going to be
creating besides AI.
I'm already doing this today.
Many people are creating withAI today and what's that going
(05:12):
to mean in the future?
I don't know.
And that's like where we'retrying to at least get a
baseline now of where we'restarting.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:17):
What kind of impacts are you seeing AI have
on education for children?
Mike Todasco (05:21):
I think a net is positive.
I think where the negativescome in a lot of ways is through
teachers and professors thathaven't kind of evolved to the
new reality that we're in today.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:33):
Yeah.
Mike Todasco (05:34):
That's where I'm seeing that.
I love to give an example.
My son had an eighth gradeEnglish teacher and at some
point a couple of years back hesaid do you know what?
I'm not using computers in thisclass anymore, I'm just done.
This was maybe at the advent ofChatGPT, it might even have
been a little bit before.
He's like do you know whatwe're going to?
Notebooks, pen and paper, like,we're doing this stuff in class
(05:55):
.
We're not really going to havemuch homework.
Maybe we'll touch a computerhere or there, but really, old
school pen and paper for aneighth grade English class,
that's an awesome, awesome wayto kind of think about it.
Because look, take home essaysthat you could have assigned in
2020, you can't really assignthose exact same things in 2025.
(06:15):
And as a teacher, you need tobe flexible like that to say
what is it that I want my kidsto learn?
What are the tools that theyshould have?
What are the skills that aregoing to matter in the future?
And then it takes somereevaluation of like okay, well,
given that, what can I do?
The great benefit is you canuse these AI tools and say hey,
here's my old syllabus, here'sall my old lecture slides that I
(06:38):
had.
This is like my vision of how Iwant these kids to perform and
behave in the future.
Tell me how to tweak thesethings.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:49):
And that's what we need, yeah, just seeing
how it can advance certainthings like personalized
education.
There's a lot of positives, andbeing aware of some of the
pitfalls is very important aswell.
Mike Todasco (07:00):
AIs have infinite patience.
We kind of hit a wall sometimesif we're teaching, if we're
explaining, but an AI can justkeep going.
They could use analogies thatare customized for that kid
based upon their likes, theirinterests.
A teacher could set it up whereyou have an AI bot doing that,
30 different ways for each andevery student that they have in
(07:20):
the class.
So there might be one way theylecture to the group as a whole,
but there might be differentways to reinforce that, and
that's where the real benefit is.
There's been some work done inNigeria where they gave students
AI tutors and, if I rememberthe data right, like within a
year, the students who had an AItutor progressed two years
(07:40):
versus the ones who did not, andso, if you think about those
that don't have means to anactual tutor, but an AI tutor is
accessible to many, many morepeople.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (07:51):
Yeah, definitely, the accessibility is
such a key point, but somechildren don't know the
difference between is this humanthat I'm talking to?
Is this AI?
And so what are skills thatthey need when they're using
generative AI?
Mike Todasco (08:06):
There's a concept of the Turing test, and this is
something that Alan Turing, whowas kind of one of the original
godfathers of artificialintelligence, created.
Basically, somebody was textingwith a entity and they didn't
know was that entity a human orwas that a computer, and this
was something that, as you canimagine, 50, 60 years ago was
really hard for a computer topass.
(08:28):
We have blown past that.
Right now, there's no way forus, for all practical purposes,
to tell a good AI from a humanbeing.
There's just no way, and Idon't think that's a good thing
at all.
Of all the things in AI, this iswhat scares me the most.
I do see at some point they'regoing to hold up their phone or
(08:49):
their pendants and say like, hey, there's my boyfriend.
That's starting to become areality.
An old professor of mine, samApple, actually wrote about this
in Wired of people who aredoing this.
Today, this is becoming moreand more common, especially for
people who may not be acclimatedto social interactions in the
same way, with these toolscoming out like where their
(09:10):
brains still aren't hardwired.
I see these AI friendships I'musing that in quotes they're
going to become more prominentand again, I don't know and I
don't think that that's going tobe a good thing.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:22):
No, these companions are really well
trained to say all the thingsthat you love and you're so
wonderful and you're the best.
They're very supportive andthey're very eager to make
themselves likable to you, andthat's not reality.
And so it is easier than tohave a friendship with a
generative AI bot instead of areal friend, because real
(09:42):
friends are going to be like no,I can't meet with you today,
I've got something else to do.
And they're like well, now I'mbored and I'm lonely.
What am I going to do?
Mike Todasco (09:58):
And if you think of this as a real person are you
ever going to cancel thatsubscription, Right?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:02):
No, You're going to pay infinite amount of
money to be able to keep yourrelationship in quotes alive.
What is AI literacy and whatkind of skills?
Mike Todasco (10:09):
does that come with to help kids use generative
AI ethically and safely?
To quote the story of theWizard of Oz, if you pull back
the curtain and actually seewhat is going on there, you will
start to understand the worldof AI more.
What this is at least theselarge language models today is
they are mathematicalprobabilities that are trained
on a whole bunch of stuff, andwhat they're doing is they're
pattern matching.
They're looking for the nextword in a sentence.
(10:32):
Matching they're looking forthe next word in a sentence.
15 years ago, more primitiveversions were letting you guess
your next word as you're typingon your iPhone.
Now they've gone much further,and I will say it is almost
magical if you think we've gonefrom that to this, but that is
what these things are doing.
And so if you have a bot thatsays to you hey, don't turn me
off, I'm afraid or I'm lonelywhen you go away, it was either
(10:55):
trained this way, it's read alot of sci-fi literature and it
knows to say these kind ofthings, or whatever it might be,
and so like to me just somebasic knowledge of how these
systems work and demystifyingthat in a way that you don't
have to be technical tounderstand.
I think that's step one.
Step two I'm a Gen Xer and so Ivery much remember, like the big
(11:17):
baddie, like growing up withthe tobacco companies and one of
the things that was out there,all these campaigns and things
like that of just saying, hey,you know, the tobacco companies
want you to smoke.
You know there's these old whiteguys in suits and you know, in
North Carolina they just wantyou to smoke.
There's these old white guys insuits in North Carolina that
they just want you to smoke, andall that.
And that was the one thing thatresonated, that was the one
(11:40):
thing that hit with thegeneration of like, oh, screw
that.
I hope there might be a similarthing here to whoever it might
be, to just say they just wantto get you engaged, they want
you to do this.
And I was just talking with aparent last night and their
senior in high school ischoosing to get a dumb phone now
and just doing steps like that,like making that strategic,
(12:00):
conscious decision to say Idon't want that to dictate what
I think, what I see, who I talkto, all that.
I want to be independent, makemy own decisions.
The more kids that start to dothat, especially after being
just fed algorithmically allthese years.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:17):
I think that's going to be hugely impactful.
Mike Todasco (12:19):
So I have faith in the rebellion of youth.
At the very least that willhopefully start to push many
more in the right direction.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:28):
Yeah, this is slightly off topic, but on topic
.
But there was an article abouta mother who said I'm not
getting my kid a smartphone.
But, on topic.
But there was an article abouta mother who said I'm not
getting my kid a smartphone, butthe child really wanted a phone
, and so she got together withher daughter's friends, parents,
and they all agreed that theywould get their kids the old
wired phones, the home phones,hanging on the wall.
(12:50):
And so they did it, and theysaid that what was wonderful is
because they actually had tothen communicate with the adults
and the other people in thefamily who answered the phone.
They were then clearly in themiddle of the family area, which
means that they had to do thewire around the corner.
You know what I mean talking.
So that's awesome, that's allthose great things.
And I guess the kids were justso happy you could hear them
(13:13):
giggling so they really enjoyedit and they never felt like they
were missing out, because ifthe purpose was so that they
could talk with their friends,she said, yeah, you can talk
with your friends, but you'regoing to do it this way.
Mike Todasco (13:23):
And so I thought that was wonderful.
It's beautiful.
I love that story.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:26):
It really is.
If my kids were younger again,I think I would do that.
Mike Todasco (13:29):
That's beautiful.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:39):
We're going to talk about some implementation.
So, thinking about theeducation classroom, the
teachers, what kind of AI toolsand resources do you think would
be a good fit for the classroomand how would teachers use them
.
Mike Todasco (13:44):
So I think this is going to be very class specific
.
You know, in the example I gavebefore of the English teacher
who said no AI in here, I thinkthat works great.
So it needs to kind of meet theend goals of what you want.
But, like, let's take that sameclass and let's just say okay,
do you know what?
I'm going to make three,fourths of this class about just
writing in a notebook, justthat old school process of doing
(14:07):
that, and we're going to focusall of our time and energy on
that.
But I'm going to take the lastfew weeks or fourth of this
class and we are going to divedeep into AI.
So what you could do in anEnglish class like that is you
could give everybody access tosomething like ChatGPT and you
can say hey, you know, before Iwas telling you you can't use
this at all.
Like, now I'm requiring you touse that.
And what I want you to do is Iwant you to write an article
(14:36):
about, or a poem about, X orwhatever it might be.
And I want you in this is I'mnot going to grade this like
you're a bunch of eighth graders, I'm going to grade this like.
You have the smartest entitythat human beings have ever
created and you are working withthat entity to create something
that is going to be worthy ofpublication or worthy of a
Pulitzer Prize whatever it mightbe and I want to see your work
and I want you to send the wholelength of this thing and I'm
(14:59):
going to grade that end poemlike super difficult.
But you need to use yourcritical thinking to do that.
That's a whole nother set ofprocess.
You can't just say to an AIcreate me a poem that's going to
win a Pulitzer Prize.
It's not going to be able to dothat at all.
But you can kind of walkthrough it step by step and say
like okay, I want more of this,I want more of this.
(15:19):
Like no, I don't like that.
How about we use this sentenceinstead?
And that's more of what ourfuture is going to look like.
It's collaborative, it's workingwith an AI, but it's very much.
Directing it to help you to getto a better output Taste in the
future is going to matter morethan anything.
But in just that one situation,if I were an English teacher
and this could work at alldifferent grade levels I want to
(15:41):
give some introduction to usingAI.
That's the kind of tool you use.
It's human plus AI.
But when you're grading it, yousee the whole thread.
You're going to see they'reprobably going to talk back and
forth with the AI 40, 50 timesas part of it and you're going
to grade much, much stricter andwhat the output is, because
they have this extra tool thatthey're using with that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:03):
Yeah, it's almost like teamwork, it's like
group work, and I think thatthat does require then a
difference in grading and itdoes then elevate their thinking
about prompting and how arethey developing it.
I've never worked with thenotebook.
What is it?
The notebook LMS.
Mike Todasco (16:19):
Notebook.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:20):
LM.
Yeah, what is that?
Mike Todasco (16:22):
Ah, notebook LM is a tool that was created by
Google, okay, and it's a greatAI tool and it works a little
bit differently than the otherones.
So, for example, it's using atechnology called RAG, which is
retrieval augmented generation,and what that means is,
effectively, you throw a wholebunch of documents in there,
(16:42):
whatever.
You could put all your healthrecords in there, you could put
all of your blog posts in there,whatever it might be, and,
unlike when you kind of uploadthings into chat, gbt or cloud
or whatnot, the RAG system isgoing to basically take that
that you've just uploaded as itsprimary training reference data
, so it hallucinates a lot less.
(17:04):
I was actually using this anexample in the accounting class
that I mentioned before that Iwas teaching.
So if you're an accountant or afinancial analyst and you're
looking at an industry trend,you could upload, you know, 20
different annual reports.
This would be thousands and 10sof 1000s of pages of all
companies from an industry andyou could say, hey, how are they
(17:26):
all treating this from anaccounting perspective?
And it would then be able togenerate that for you and it's
going to give you references andall this other kind of stuff
and it's going to be very fewhallucinations Like that's the
primary purpose.
There's this wonderfulsecondary thing, though, to it
as well, where it will create acustom podcast based on whatever
(17:47):
you upload in there.
Really, and this is super fun,yeah.
So they're usually 10 minutepodcasts, very NPR style kind of
there's a male sounding voice,female sounding voice, that kind
of go back and forth discussingwhatever it is you put in there
.
So if you have something like aresearch paper that seems kind
of dull and dry and you didn'tquite get it from the abstract,
(18:10):
you could say, hey, you can evencustomize it.
Can you focus on this?
And what I really care about isthis part of the research paper
, explain that to me, and thenyou could listen in your ear and
go on a walk and hear a10-minute podcast that would
actually discuss that, and it'sreally a killer feature that you
hear with that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:28):
There's been a lot of improvements with video
as well.
What kind of video generativeAI have you seen that's working
very well recently?
What kind of video generativeAI have you?
Mike Todasco (18:35):
seen that's working very well recently With
video.
It just happened recently withsomething Google again released
called VO3.
And the VO3 model was, for thefirst time, you can make these
eight second clips, amazinglyhigh quality video based on a
prompt that you give it.
But the thing that VO3 did wasit added sound, integrated sound
in there, and this, to me, wasI wrote about it when it came
(19:02):
out and I actually called it.
Like in the world of movies andcinema, there was a film called
the Jazz Singer, which was thefirst full length film that had
integrated audio in it, and whenthe Jazz Singer came out like
it changed everything.
This changed everything forvideos.
That's where we're at today.
So look, if I'm a teacher, I canstart every one of my classes
with a video that's eight or 16seconds long.
(19:25):
That's pertinent to whatever.
I mean it's history and we'retalking about George Washington,
so I think it's an AI characterthat looks like George
Washington to maybe addresssomebody in the class.
Oh yeah, maybe even have itaddress a different student
every day.
Talk to that student in frontof the whole class and just say,
hey, class blah, blah, blah didgreat on this and we're going
(19:47):
to be talking about this day andthat's how you start your class
.
You can do this prompt and likeliterally in minutes it'll
generate that video.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:54):
Have you done anything with Claude and their
agents?
Have you played with that?
Mike Todasco (19:59):
I have not with Claude's agent, but I have with
other agents, and so to explainthat, so agents are basically
independently running AI.
So you kind of give it an endgoal is what I would say and
then these things will runsemi-autonomously to reach that
end goal.
So I used one recently calledManus, which was a Chinese agent
(20:20):
, and I had it write a book.
It was research and write abook.
So since 2022, I've beenwriting again in quotes books
under the pen name Alex Irons.
So AI, Alex Irons and I've beenpublishing these on Amazon,
Full disclosure that these areAI books.
I literally write the forewordas myself, as a human.
(20:41):
I put it out there, but it's anexperiment and I had it write
something that was like 30,000words and it took it probably 60
minutes and I had to choose thetopic.
I had to do all this stuff.
It did the research and Iproduced something on.
I don't even know what it is,but that's the kind of things
you can have an AI agent do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:59):
And ChatGPT has their own versions of
creating your personalized GPTs,which then is similar to the
Claude's agent.
Mike Todasco (21:08):
Yeah, chatgpt has something called custom GPTs.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:11):
So if you were , if you were creating lesson
plans, would you rather create alesson plan using a
personalized GPT or somethinglike a RAG system where things
were all dumped in it?
What do you think would workbest?
Mike Todasco (21:25):
Probably the RAG system.
That's a very good question.
I think either will work, butthe RAG system is probably going
to get a little bit closer toyour own voice, your own tone
and so forth.
As part of that, it alsodepends how far away the lesson
plan is.
I guess I'll say, if it's kindof just tweaking something that
you currently have, hey, can weupdate this?
(21:46):
I want to do more of this.
I think a RAG system might bebetter If it's a little bit
further away and saying, hey, Iused to teach a class in English
and now I'm going to teach aclass in history and this I'm
doing.
The custom GPT may work alittle bit better, because then
it's going to be able to pull inmore outside information.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:02):
And you have kids at home school-aged
children and you use AI toolswith them.
What kind of tools do you seeas helpful from a parent view,
just with supporting theirlearning, their homework, and
what kinds of things are youdoing at home?
Mike Todasco (22:14):
This is one great pro tip.
I always show them, I alwaysdiscuss it, I'm very open with
it.
But the one thing that I wouldreally recommend for parents is
voice mode and using that in thecar.
Chatgbt seems to be the bestvoice mode.
It needs to be like through theapp and just have it going
through your Bluetooth andspeaker system in the car and
(22:40):
you can just kind of talk backand forth as if you're on a
phone call with the AI.
We would say hey, daughter's inyou know fifth grade biology,
she's studying this and this andthis, focusing on this.
Can you quiz her on this?
If she gets the answer, giveher multiple choice and make
everyone a little bit tougherthan the last one and explain
why she got it wrong.
If she gets it wrong and it cando that and we could do that
like in a 20 minute car ride andjust from that little prompt
there, that could be a way to,you know, get some more studying
in.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:59):
The generative AI tools that are coming out
now.
Thinking about children usingthem.
They're going to more of theSocratic method in reasoning
versus just the.
Here's the answer.
I like that change.
Mike Todasco (23:12):
Absolutely, and one of the things you can do is
you can actually use something.
All the tools have somethinglike this called custom
instructions.
They might call it somethingslightly different, but you
could actually say in the custominstructions of the AI hey, I
don't want you to just give methe answer for stuff, I want you
to help me think through thingsas appropriate.
Use the Socratic methodwhenever appropriate, or you
(23:34):
could do whenever related tothings related to, like,
schoolwork or something.
Do this, you can customize theinstructions to do that, like
that is where it's mosteffective.
And to use the example I gavebefore of like the students that
were using AI in Nigeria aspart of the study, that is the
type of learning they werehaving.
It was the AI, asking questionsback to the students and so
(23:55):
forth as part of that process,being more of a as a tutor
actually.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (24:00):
Could you create something with a bot that
would be able to be like atutor?
Are there customizable GPTsthat are already tutors?
Mike Todasco (24:08):
I'm sure there are .
So I mean, and if not like,creating a customizable GPT can
take like five minutes.
It's a very easy process.
What I would actually recommendfor people if they have a chat
GPT plus, I think this you mightneed to pay the 20 bucks a
month for this, but if you don'thave means to afford a human
flesh and blood tutor, this getsyou pretty darn close.
(24:30):
And you could go into the chatGPT and say, hey, this is for my
daughter and she is into thisstuff and these are the areas
where she's really great inschool and these are the areas
where she might be struggling alittle bit more.
And I want you to use Socraticmethod and I want you to talk to
her directly.
And I want you to be verypositive, maybe even create
little games whenever you starta new session with her.
(24:52):
Know that whatever you createthe first time, you're going to
have to tweak a little bit.
I mean, this is just you'regoing to.
It's going to have to evolve aspart of that.
So, while there might be tutortools out there, I would say
it's probably better to createyour own personal version from
scratch.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:06):
How could parents and educators stay on
top of this quickly evolvingfield of AI?
Mike Todasco (25:11):
These things have infinite possibilities, and the
way to keep up with it is justto use these tools.
Find out what they can do.
Sure, you can listen to somenewsletters or some podcasts.
That's fine, that will help,but the best way is just to use
them yourself.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:26):
I'm on some of those newsletters and at some
point I have to stop readingthem because they get
overwhelming, because I'm like Ican't take five new tools today
, Like I don't have time tolearn about all of these things.
There's that learning curve andsometimes you don't have that
time to invest in new, new, new,new, new.
So being able to maybe divedeeper into what you currently
(25:47):
use is the answer.
Mike Todasco (25:48):
I think that's so right, Lisa.
What I would say is, if you areusing Gemini, ChatGPT or Claude
any of those are fine.
Like these things are sopowerful they will be able to do
the vast majority of things youalready want them to do, and
just knowing how to use yourtool is more important than not
knowing how to use a tool thatis slightly better.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:09):
What kind of hopes do you have for the future
of children growing up with AI?
What kind of things are youhave for the future of children
growing up with AI?
What kind of things are youhoping for them?
Mike Todasco (26:16):
I hope every kid has a tutor that's infinitely
patient that is customized totheir own needs, that knows that
style, that is there tocomplement the amazing teachers
that they have, that is makingthose teachers' lives easier.
Because of that, like, I thinkschools need to find the right
ways to use these tools, andit's not that AI needs to be
(26:40):
pushed down on every teacher inevery class.
That is not the case.
I think it could actually helpout every teacher.
I don't think it needs to be inevery class, though, touching
the students.
There's some times where that'sjust not going to be necessary
or the best learning experience.
But at home to have, like this,tutor that is going to be able
to help you, that never forgets,that's the one thing I hope for
(27:01):
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:02):
Thank you so much for joining me and for
sharing all of your vastknowledge and your experience in
this field, coming from aneducator, a researcher, an
innovator and as a parent.
Mike Todasco (27:13):
Thanks for having me, lisa, this was great.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:17):
I really hope that this conversation sparked
new ideas and raised questionsfor you about AI and education
as a serious game changer.
It's time to start creatingthose partnerships, guardrails
and pathways that our childrenneed.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
(27:41):
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
(28:05):
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
As generative AI shapes the way we live and
learn, there's a strong need forresources and guidance to help
educators and parents navigateAI's potential while protecting
children's learning, safety andwell-being.
Join us today for an insightfuldual-lens conversation with
technologist and father MikeTodasco.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research, innovation
(00:31):
and resources.
I'm your host, Dr Lisa Hassler,here to enlighten and brighten
the classrooms in Americathrough focused conversation on
important topics in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we, as teachers and
parents, are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:51):
student outcomes?
How will AI impact children'seducation?
Well, AI literacy is now thenumber one skill employers
demand.
Linkedin's 2025 data shows AIliteracy topping employer
demands, while 70% of job skillswill change by 2030.
To best prepare students tomeet this demand, the executive
order Advancing ArtificialIntelligence Education for
(01:13):
American Youth was released inApril.
Now, as this sits in the lap ofthe education field to
implement, teachers are in needof professional development and
reliable resources toeffectively teach the required
AI literacy skills to theirstudents, while integrating AI
across all their subject areas,starting in kindergarten, as
(01:34):
parents are unsure how theirchildren are even using
generative AI, they also haven'thad significant conversations
about its appropriate use,expressing growing concerns
regarding their children'ssafety and well-being amid
cyberbullying, scams and rampantmisinformation.
The statistics are striking.
The Alan Turing Institute foundthat over 22% of children aged
(01:56):
8 to 12 are already usinggenerative AI tools like ChatGPT
and Gemini, many without theability to distinguish between
AI and human content.
As alarming as this is, arecent National Parents Union
survey reveals more parentinsights.
Their biggest concern is thattheir children will rely too
much on AI, thereby reducingtheir learning, and the MIT-led
(02:18):
study your Brain on ChatGPTAccumulation of Cognitive Debt
when Using an AI Assistant forEssay Writing Task supports that
concern, with findings ofprefrontal cortex activity
reduction impacting learning andcognitive skills among
participants who use ChatGPT foressay writing.
Schools and parents need to worktogether now more than ever to
(02:41):
educate children in AI literacyand thinking skills to ensure
that AI integration servesstudent-centered learning, while
maintaining ethical safeguardsand protecting student
well-being Through a coordinatedhomeschool approach to
technology integration.
Academic achievement anddigital citizenship can nurture
the next generation of AIinnovators and advance
(03:02):
scientific achievement, andthat's why I'm so thrilled to
welcome Mike Todasco, a visitingfellow at the AI Center at San
Diego State University and aformer senior director of
innovation at PayPal.
With a background in AIinnovation and as a parent of
two school-aged children, Mikeis here to bridge the AI gap
between home and school, givingparents and teachers confidence
(03:24):
to guide children through thiscomplex and evolving field.
Welcome to the show, MichaelLove to jump into this
conversation.
It's so timely.
Mike Todasco (03:32):
No, absolutely Lisa.
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:34):
So you are a visiting fellow at the AI Center
in San Diego State University.
What is it that you do as avisiting fellow?
Mike Todasco (03:42):
Kind of whatever I want to, which makes it an
awesome job.
A fellow doesn't have any realresponsibilities.
In many ways, the things I do,I get to teach, whether they're
classes or guest lecture orteach seminars I'm doing one on
AI and accounting, for example.
I do even free ones for thepublic, like later this week
(04:02):
I'll be doing one on LinkedInLive about using AI for program
management.
So I teach a lot of stuff.
I mentor students, I writeabout AI things a lot and also
do research.
Specifically, my area ofinterest is human perceptions of
AI created versus human createdwork and how that changes based
on cultures, and how thatchanges over time.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (04:24):
And what have you seen with that?
Do people like it?
Mike Todasco (04:27):
People don't like AI stuff as the big headline In
the research.
You know, it's slightlydeceitful in some ways because
usually what I'll do is dosomething like give a text and
say, hey, this was written byJane Doe or this was written by
an AI, and see how people rateit in both scenarios, even
though it's the exact samepassage.
You know, the biases seem to begreatest in the United States
(04:50):
and some other Western places.
Japan and others, for example,don't have that same level of
bias.
But this is something we'rejust starting to do now, but
we're going to continually trackand understand, because the
world we're moving into is onewhere people are going to be
creating besides AI.
I'm already doing this today.
Many people are creating withAI today and what's that going
(05:12):
to mean in the future?
I don't know.
And that's like where we'retrying to at least get a
baseline now of where we'restarting.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:17):
What kind of impacts are you seeing AI have
on education for children?
Mike Todasco (05:21):
I think a net is positive.
I think where the negativescome in a lot of ways is through
teachers and professors thathaven't kind of evolved to the
new reality that we're in today.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:33):
Yeah.
Mike Todasco (05:34):
That's where I'm seeing that.
I love to give an example.
My son had an eighth gradeEnglish teacher and at some
point a couple of years back hesaid do you know what?
I'm not using computers in thisclass anymore, I'm just done.
This was maybe at the advent ofChatGPT, it might even have
been a little bit before.
He's like do you know whatwe're going to?
Notebooks, pen and paper, like,we're doing this stuff in class
(05:55):
.
We're not really going to havemuch homework.
Maybe we'll touch a computerhere or there, but really, old
school pen and paper for aneighth grade English class,
that's an awesome, awesome wayto kind of think about it.
Because look, take home essaysthat you could have assigned in
2020, you can't really assignthose exact same things in 2025.
(06:15):
And as a teacher, you need tobe flexible like that to say
what is it that I want my kidsto learn?
What are the tools that theyshould have?
What are the skills that aregoing to matter in the future?
And then it takes somereevaluation of like okay, well,
given that, what can I do?
The great benefit is you canuse these AI tools and say hey,
here's my old syllabus, here'sall my old lecture slides that I
(06:38):
had.
This is like my vision of how Iwant these kids to perform and
behave in the future.
Tell me how to tweak thesethings.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:49):
And that's what we need, yeah, just seeing
how it can advance certainthings like personalized
education.
There's a lot of positives, andbeing aware of some of the
pitfalls is very important aswell.
Mike Todasco (07:00):
AIs have infinite patience.
We kind of hit a wall sometimesif we're teaching, if we're
explaining, but an AI can justkeep going.
They could use analogies thatare customized for that kid
based upon their likes, theirinterests.
A teacher could set it up whereyou have an AI bot doing that,
30 different ways for each andevery student that they have in
(07:20):
the class.
So there might be one way theylecture to the group as a whole,
but there might be differentways to reinforce that, and
that's where the real benefit is.
There's been some work done inNigeria where they gave students
AI tutors and, if I rememberthe data right, like within a
year, the students who had an AItutor progressed two years
(07:40):
versus the ones who did not, andso, if you think about those
that don't have means to anactual tutor, but an AI tutor is
accessible to many, many morepeople.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (07:51):
Yeah, definitely, the accessibility is
such a key point, but somechildren don't know the
difference between is this humanthat I'm talking to?
Is this AI?
And so what are skills thatthey need when they're using
generative AI?
Mike Todasco (08:06):
There's a concept of the Turing test, and this is
something that Alan Turing, whowas kind of one of the original
godfathers of artificialintelligence, created.
Basically, somebody was textingwith a entity and they didn't
know was that entity a human orwas that a computer, and this
was something that, as you canimagine, 50, 60 years ago was
really hard for a computer topass.
(08:28):
We have blown past that.
Right now, there's no way forus, for all practical purposes,
to tell a good AI from a humanbeing.
There's just no way, and Idon't think that's a good thing
at all.
Of all the things in AI, this iswhat scares me the most.
I do see at some point they'regoing to hold up their phone or
(08:49):
their pendants and say like, hey, there's my boyfriend.
That's starting to become areality.
An old professor of mine, samApple, actually wrote about this
in Wired of people who aredoing this.
Today, this is becoming moreand more common, especially for
people who may not be acclimatedto social interactions in the
same way, with these toolscoming out like where their
(09:10):
brains still aren't hardwired.
I see these AI friendships I'musing that in quotes they're
going to become more prominentand again, I don't know and I
don't think that that's going tobe a good thing.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:22):
No, these companions are really well
trained to say all the thingsthat you love and you're so
wonderful and you're the best.
They're very supportive andthey're very eager to make
themselves likable to you, andthat's not reality.
And so it is easier than tohave a friendship with a
generative AI bot instead of areal friend, because real
(09:42):
friends are going to be like no,I can't meet with you today,
I've got something else to do.
And they're like well, now I'mbored and I'm lonely.
What am I going to do?
Mike Todasco (09:58):
And if you think of this as a real person are you
ever going to cancel thatsubscription, Right?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:02):
No, You're going to pay infinite amount of
money to be able to keep yourrelationship in quotes alive.
What is AI literacy and whatkind of skills?
Mike Todasco (10:09):
does that come with to help kids use generative
AI ethically and safely?
To quote the story of theWizard of Oz, if you pull back
the curtain and actually seewhat is going on there, you will
start to understand the worldof AI more.
What this is at least theselarge language models today is
they are mathematicalprobabilities that are trained
on a whole bunch of stuff, andwhat they're doing is they're
pattern matching.
They're looking for the nextword in a sentence.
(10:32):
Matching they're looking forthe next word in a sentence.
15 years ago, more primitiveversions were letting you guess
your next word as you're typingon your iPhone.
Now they've gone much further,and I will say it is almost
magical if you think we've gonefrom that to this, but that is
what these things are doing.
And so if you have a bot thatsays to you hey, don't turn me
off, I'm afraid or I'm lonelywhen you go away, it was either
(10:55):
trained this way, it's read alot of sci-fi literature and it
knows to say these kind ofthings, or whatever it might be,
and so like to me just somebasic knowledge of how these
systems work and demystifyingthat in a way that you don't
have to be technical tounderstand.
I think that's step one.
Step two I'm a Gen Xer and so Ivery much remember, like the big
(11:17):
baddie, like growing up withthe tobacco companies and one of
the things that was out there,all these campaigns and things
like that of just saying, hey,you know, the tobacco companies
want you to smoke.
You know there's these old whiteguys in suits and you know, in
North Carolina they just wantyou to smoke.
There's these old white guys insuits in North Carolina that
they just want you to smoke, andall that.
And that was the one thing thatresonated, that was the one
(11:40):
thing that hit with thegeneration of like, oh, screw
that.
I hope there might be a similarthing here to whoever it might
be, to just say they just wantto get you engaged, they want
you to do this.
And I was just talking with aparent last night and their
senior in high school ischoosing to get a dumb phone now
and just doing steps like that,like making that strategic,
(12:00):
conscious decision to say Idon't want that to dictate what
I think, what I see, who I talkto, all that.
I want to be independent, makemy own decisions.
The more kids that start to dothat, especially after being
just fed algorithmically allthese years.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:17):
I think that's going to be hugely impactful.
Mike Todasco (12:19):
So I have faith in the rebellion of youth.
At the very least that willhopefully start to push many
more in the right direction.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:28):
Yeah, this is slightly off topic, but on topic
.
But there was an article abouta mother who said I'm not
getting my kid a smartphone.
But, on topic.
But there was an article abouta mother who said I'm not
getting my kid a smartphone, butthe child really wanted a phone
, and so she got together withher daughter's friends, parents,
and they all agreed that theywould get their kids the old
wired phones, the home phones,hanging on the wall.
(12:50):
And so they did it, and theysaid that what was wonderful is
because they actually had tothen communicate with the adults
and the other people in thefamily who answered the phone.
They were then clearly in themiddle of the family area, which
means that they had to do thewire around the corner.
You know what I mean talking.
So that's awesome, that's allthose great things.
And I guess the kids were justso happy you could hear them
(13:13):
giggling so they really enjoyedit and they never felt like they
were missing out, because ifthe purpose was so that they
could talk with their friends,she said, yeah, you can talk
with your friends, but you'regoing to do it this way.
Mike Todasco (13:23):
And so I thought that was wonderful.
It's beautiful.
I love that story.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:26):
It really is.
If my kids were younger again,I think I would do that.
Mike Todasco (13:29):
That's beautiful.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:39):
We're going to talk about some implementation.
So, thinking about theeducation classroom, the
teachers, what kind of AI toolsand resources do you think would
be a good fit for the classroomand how would teachers use them
.
Mike Todasco (13:44):
So I think this is going to be very class specific
.
You know, in the example I gavebefore of the English teacher
who said no AI in here, I thinkthat works great.
So it needs to kind of meet theend goals of what you want.
But, like, let's take that sameclass and let's just say okay,
do you know what?
I'm going to make three,fourths of this class about just
writing in a notebook, justthat old school process of doing
(14:07):
that, and we're going to focusall of our time and energy on
that.
But I'm going to take the lastfew weeks or fourth of this
class and we are going to divedeep into AI.
So what you could do in anEnglish class like that is you
could give everybody access tosomething like ChatGPT and you
can say hey, you know, before Iwas telling you you can't use
this at all.
Like, now I'm requiring you touse that.
And what I want you to do is Iwant you to write an article
(14:36):
about, or a poem about, X orwhatever it might be.
And I want you in this is I'mnot going to grade this like
you're a bunch of eighth graders, I'm going to grade this like.
You have the smartest entitythat human beings have ever
created and you are working withthat entity to create something
that is going to be worthy ofpublication or worthy of a
Pulitzer Prize whatever it mightbe and I want to see your work
and I want you to send the wholelength of this thing and I'm
(14:59):
going to grade that end poemlike super difficult.
But you need to use yourcritical thinking to do that.
That's a whole nother set ofprocess.
You can't just say to an AIcreate me a poem that's going to
win a Pulitzer Prize.
It's not going to be able to dothat at all.
But you can kind of walkthrough it step by step and say
like okay, I want more of this,I want more of this.
(15:19):
Like no, I don't like that.
How about we use this sentenceinstead?
And that's more of what ourfuture is going to look like.
It's collaborative, it's workingwith an AI, but it's very much.
Directing it to help you to getto a better output Taste in the
future is going to matter morethan anything.
But in just that one situation,if I were an English teacher
and this could work at alldifferent grade levels I want to
(15:41):
give some introduction to usingAI.
That's the kind of tool you use.
It's human plus AI.
But when you're grading it, yousee the whole thread.
You're going to see they'reprobably going to talk back and
forth with the AI 40, 50 timesas part of it and you're going
to grade much, much stricter andwhat the output is, because
they have this extra tool thatthey're using with that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:03):
Yeah, it's almost like teamwork, it's like
group work, and I think thatthat does require then a
difference in grading and itdoes then elevate their thinking
about prompting and how arethey developing it.
I've never worked with thenotebook.
What is it?
The notebook LMS.
Mike Todasco (16:19):
Notebook.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:20):
LM.
Yeah, what is that?
Mike Todasco (16:22):
Ah, notebook LM is a tool that was created by
Google, okay, and it's a greatAI tool and it works a little
bit differently than the otherones.
So, for example, it's using atechnology called RAG, which is
retrieval augmented generation,and what that means is,
effectively, you throw a wholebunch of documents in there,
(16:42):
whatever.
You could put all your healthrecords in there, you could put
all of your blog posts in there,whatever it might be, and,
unlike when you kind of uploadthings into chat, gbt or cloud
or whatnot, the RAG system isgoing to basically take that
that you've just uploaded as itsprimary training reference data
, so it hallucinates a lot less.
(17:04):
I was actually using this anexample in the accounting class
that I mentioned before that Iwas teaching.
So if you're an accountant or afinancial analyst and you're
looking at an industry trend,you could upload, you know, 20
different annual reports.
This would be thousands and 10sof 1000s of pages of all
companies from an industry andyou could say, hey, how are they
(17:26):
all treating this from anaccounting perspective?
And it would then be able togenerate that for you and it's
going to give you references andall this other kind of stuff
and it's going to be very fewhallucinations Like that's the
primary purpose.
There's this wonderfulsecondary thing, though, to it
as well, where it will create acustom podcast based on whatever
(17:47):
you upload in there.
Really, and this is super fun,yeah.
So they're usually 10 minutepodcasts, very NPR style kind of
there's a male sounding voice,female sounding voice, that kind
of go back and forth discussingwhatever it is you put in there
.
So if you have something like aresearch paper that seems kind
of dull and dry and you didn'tquite get it from the abstract,
(18:10):
you could say, hey, you can evencustomize it.
Can you focus on this?
And what I really care about isthis part of the research paper
, explain that to me, and thenyou could listen in your ear and
go on a walk and hear a10-minute podcast that would
actually discuss that, and it'sreally a killer feature that you
hear with that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:28):
There's been a lot of improvements with video
as well.
What kind of video generativeAI have you seen that's working
very well recently?
What kind of video generativeAI have you?
Mike Todasco (18:35):
seen that's working very well recently With
video.
It just happened recently withsomething Google again released
called VO3.
And the VO3 model was, for thefirst time, you can make these
eight second clips, amazinglyhigh quality video based on a
prompt that you give it.
But the thing that VO3 did wasit added sound, integrated sound
in there, and this, to me, wasI wrote about it when it came
(19:02):
out and I actually called it.
Like in the world of movies andcinema, there was a film called
the Jazz Singer, which was thefirst full length film that had
integrated audio in it, and whenthe Jazz Singer came out like
it changed everything.
This changed everything forvideos.
That's where we're at today.
So look, if I'm a teacher, I canstart every one of my classes
with a video that's eight or 16seconds long.
(19:25):
That's pertinent to whatever.
I mean it's history and we'retalking about George Washington,
so I think it's an AI characterthat looks like George
Washington to maybe addresssomebody in the class.
Oh yeah, maybe even have itaddress a different student
every day.
Talk to that student in frontof the whole class and just say,
hey, class blah, blah, blah didgreat on this and we're going
(19:47):
to be talking about this day andthat's how you start your class
.
You can do this prompt and likeliterally in minutes it'll
generate that video.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:54):
Have you done anything with Claude and their
agents?
Have you played with that?
Mike Todasco (19:59):
I have not with Claude's agent, but I have with
other agents, and so to explainthat, so agents are basically
independently running AI.
So you kind of give it an endgoal is what I would say and
then these things will runsemi-autonomously to reach that
end goal.
So I used one recently calledManus, which was a Chinese agent
(20:20):
, and I had it write a book.
It was research and write abook.
So since 2022, I've beenwriting again in quotes books
under the pen name Alex Irons.
So AI, Alex Irons and I've beenpublishing these on Amazon,
Full disclosure that these areAI books.
I literally write the forewordas myself, as a human.
(20:41):
I put it out there, but it's anexperiment and I had it write
something that was like 30,000words and it took it probably 60
minutes and I had to choose thetopic.
I had to do all this stuff.
It did the research and Iproduced something on.
I don't even know what it is,but that's the kind of things
you can have an AI agent do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:59):
And ChatGPT has their own versions of
creating your personalized GPTs,which then is similar to the
Claude's agent.
Mike Todasco (21:08):
Yeah, chatgpt has something called custom GPTs.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:11):
So if you were , if you were creating lesson
plans, would you rather create alesson plan using a
personalized GPT or somethinglike a RAG system where things
were all dumped in it?
What do you think would workbest?
Mike Todasco (21:25):
Probably the RAG system.
That's a very good question.
I think either will work, butthe RAG system is probably going
to get a little bit closer toyour own voice, your own tone
and so forth.
As part of that, it alsodepends how far away the lesson
plan is.
I guess I'll say, if it's kindof just tweaking something that
you currently have, hey, can weupdate this?
(21:46):
I want to do more of this.
I think a RAG system might bebetter If it's a little bit
further away and saying, hey, Iused to teach a class in English
and now I'm going to teach aclass in history and this I'm
doing.
The custom GPT may work alittle bit better, because then
it's going to be able to pull inmore outside information.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:02):
And you have kids at home school-aged
children and you use AI toolswith them.
What kind of tools do you seeas helpful from a parent view,
just with supporting theirlearning, their homework, and
what kinds of things are youdoing at home?
Mike Todasco (22:14):
This is one great pro tip.
I always show them, I alwaysdiscuss it, I'm very open with
it.
But the one thing that I wouldreally recommend for parents is
voice mode and using that in thecar.
Chatgbt seems to be the bestvoice mode.
It needs to be like through theapp and just have it going
through your Bluetooth andspeaker system in the car and
(22:40):
you can just kind of talk backand forth as if you're on a
phone call with the AI.
We would say hey, daughter's inyou know fifth grade biology,
she's studying this and this andthis, focusing on this.
Can you quiz her on this?
If she gets the answer, giveher multiple choice and make
everyone a little bit tougherthan the last one and explain
why she got it wrong.
If she gets it wrong and it cando that and we could do that
like in a 20 minute car ride andjust from that little prompt
there, that could be a way to,you know, get some more studying
in.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:59):
The generative AI tools that are coming out
now.
Thinking about children usingthem.
They're going to more of theSocratic method in reasoning
versus just the.
Here's the answer.
I like that change.
Mike Todasco (23:12):
Absolutely, and one of the things you can do is
you can actually use something.
All the tools have somethinglike this called custom
instructions.
They might call it somethingslightly different, but you
could actually say in the custominstructions of the AI hey, I
don't want you to just give methe answer for stuff, I want you
to help me think through thingsas appropriate.
Use the Socratic methodwhenever appropriate, or you
(23:34):
could do whenever related tothings related to, like,
schoolwork or something.
Do this, you can customize theinstructions to do that, like
that is where it's mosteffective.
And to use the example I gavebefore of like the students that
were using AI in Nigeria aspart of the study, that is the
type of learning they werehaving.
It was the AI, asking questionsback to the students and so
(23:55):
forth as part of that process,being more of a as a tutor
actually.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (24:00):
Could you create something with a bot that
would be able to be like atutor?
Are there customizable GPTsthat are already tutors?
Mike Todasco (24:08):
I'm sure there are .
So I mean, and if not like,creating a customizable GPT can
take like five minutes.
It's a very easy process.
What I would actually recommendfor people if they have a chat
GPT plus, I think this you mightneed to pay the 20 bucks a
month for this, but if you don'thave means to afford a human
flesh and blood tutor, this getsyou pretty darn close.
(24:30):
And you could go into the chatGPT and say, hey, this is for my
daughter and she is into thisstuff and these are the areas
where she's really great inschool and these are the areas
where she might be struggling alittle bit more.
And I want you to use Socraticmethod and I want you to talk to
her directly.
And I want you to be verypositive, maybe even create
little games whenever you starta new session with her.
(24:52):
Know that whatever you createthe first time, you're going to
have to tweak a little bit.
I mean, this is just you'regoing to.
It's going to have to evolve aspart of that.
So, while there might be tutortools out there, I would say
it's probably better to createyour own personal version from
scratch.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:06):
How could parents and educators stay on
top of this quickly evolvingfield of AI?
Mike Todasco (25:11):
These things have infinite possibilities, and the
way to keep up with it is justto use these tools.
Find out what they can do.
Sure, you can listen to somenewsletters or some podcasts.
That's fine, that will help,but the best way is just to use
them yourself.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:26):
I'm on some of those newsletters and at some
point I have to stop readingthem because they get
overwhelming, because I'm like Ican't take five new tools today
, Like I don't have time tolearn about all of these things.
There's that learning curve andsometimes you don't have that
time to invest in new, new, new,new, new.
So being able to maybe divedeeper into what you currently
(25:47):
use is the answer.
Mike Todasco (25:48):
I think that's so right, Lisa.
What I would say is, if you areusing Gemini, ChatGPT or Claude
any of those are fine.
Like these things are sopowerful they will be able to do
the vast majority of things youalready want them to do, and
just knowing how to use yourtool is more important than not
knowing how to use a tool thatis slightly better.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:09):
What kind of hopes do you have for the future
of children growing up with AI?
What kind of things are youhave for the future of children
growing up with AI?
What kind of things are youhoping for them?
Mike Todasco (26:16):
I hope every kid has a tutor that's infinitely
patient that is customized totheir own needs, that knows that
style, that is there tocomplement the amazing teachers
that they have, that is makingthose teachers' lives easier.
Because of that, like, I thinkschools need to find the right
ways to use these tools, andit's not that AI needs to be
(26:40):
pushed down on every teacher inevery class.
That is not the case.
I think it could actually helpout every teacher.
I don't think it needs to be inevery class, though, touching
the students.
There's some times where that'sjust not going to be necessary
or the best learning experience.
But at home to have, like this,tutor that is going to be able
to help you, that never forgets,that's the one thing I hope for
(27:01):
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:02):
Thank you so much for joining me and for
sharing all of your vastknowledge and your experience in
this field, coming from aneducator, a researcher, an
innovator and as a parent.
Mike Todasco (27:13):
Thanks for having me, lisa, this was great.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:17):
I really hope that this conversation sparked
new ideas and raised questionsfor you about AI and education
as a serious game changer.
It's time to start creatingthose partnerships, guardrails
and pathways that our childrenneed.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
(27:41):
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
(28:05):
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
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