April 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Post-secondary planning doesn't need to be overwhelming for students, parents, or educators. Sam Bernstein shares how his app Loper is transforming this crucial process into a personalized, engaging experience that meets Gen Z where they are.
• Only 74% of Gen Z teens plan to attend college, down from previous generations
• Students increasingly interested in staying at home or exploring alternatives to four-year colleges
• College rankings create unnecessary stress and don't account for individual fit
• Traditional planning tools rely on outdated checklists that don't engage today's students
• Average school counselor manages 400+ students, making personalized guidance difficult
• Loper offers a free, TikTok-style interface that helps students discover options aligned with their interests
• 90% of Loper users apply to schools they match with, two-thirds discover these schools on the app
• First-generation students benefit from Loper's approach that assumes no prior knowledge
• Parents and educators should celebrate the process, not just outcomes
• Specific questions about interests work better than generic "how's it going" check-ins
Download Loper for free to help students explore personalized post-high school options in a format that resonates with them.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (00:00):
What if planning for life after high
school didn't have to feel sooverwhelming for students,
parents or educators?
Today, we explore howrethinking post-secondary
planning can lead to morepersonalized, confident and
future-ready decisions.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research, innovation
(00:26):
and resources.
I'm your host, dr Lisa Hassler,here to enlighten and brighten
the classrooms in Americathrough focused conversation on
important topics in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we, as teachers and
parents, are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:46):
student outcomes?
Helping students plan for lifeafter high school is one of the
most important and increasinglycomplex tasks we face as
educators and parents.
While college has traditionallybeen seen as the next step,
that's changing.
A 2023 Gallup and Walton FamilyFoundation survey found that
just 74% of Gen Z teens plan toattend college, a noticeable
(01:07):
drop from prior generations.
Many are asking deeperquestions what's the right path
for me?
What does success look like?
And, at the same time, theprocess itself is deeply
stressful.
According to the PrincetonReview, over 70% of students
experience high stress duringcollege planning.
For many, it feels like achecklist with no clear
direction, especially whenresources are stretched thin.
(01:28):
The average school counselor is, unfortunately, 400 students,
making individualized guidance achallenge, and there's a
disconnect in how we communicatethese options.
Gen Z interacts with the worldthrough mobile-first, fast-paced
, highly visual platforms, yetmost planning tools are still
static and outdated, leavingstudents disengaged from the
(01:48):
process entirely.
What emerges is a clear need amore personalized, relevant
approach to helping studentsexplore their futures, one that
reflects who they are, how theylearn and where they wanna go.
Today's guest, sam Bernstein,offers just that an innovative
solution designed to meetstudents where they are and
guide them towards what's nextwith clarity and confidence.
(02:09):
Sam co-founded Loper, a freeapp that helps students explore
their best fit options afterhigh school.
Loper is designed to feel morelike TikTok than a college
brochure engaging, personalizedand built around how Gen Z
discovers information.
Sam's work has already guidednearly 200,000 students towards
educational and career pathsthat align with both their
(02:30):
interests and goals.
His mission is simple butpowerful to give students the
tools and confidence to makeinformed decisions about their
futures, without the pressure ofprestige or outdated planning
methods.
Today, we'll hear how Loper istransforming post-secondary
planning and what educators andparents can do to better support
students in this journey.
Sam, welcome to the BrighterSide of Education.
(02:51):
I'm really excited to talk toyou about Loper and all the
great things that it is doingfor students looking ahead at
their futures after high school.
Sam Bernstein (02:59):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for having meReally excited for the
conversation.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:02):
So what kind of trends are you noticing that
are emerging in how studentstoday are thinking about life
after high school?
Sam Bernstein (03:09):
Yeah, I think there's a few really interesting
ones on our side that we'reseeing, and one, I think, comes
in some ways directly out of thepandemic and then maybe some
lingering effects, but I think,also just a response to some of
the realities of highereducation in that increasing
number of students interested instaying at home.
And when I say staying at home,not just looking at options
locally, but actually saying no,I'm not as interested in going
(03:33):
on campus, living in the dorms,I'd rather either save money or
be around my parents, be aroundmy family and actually looking
to live at home as well asexplore options outside of
four-year college, which I thinkthere's a lot of different
angles on, that cost being oneof them, and it ties into the
second point that I have aroundthe trends that we're seeing but
so interesting in speaking withhigh school students and seeing
(03:55):
their interests that theyexpress on Loper's mobile app,
we have students who are sayingI do want to look at the trades,
I do want to look atapprenticeship options and
looking to earn money save moneyeither side of the equation.
So one interesting trend thatwe're seeing, and I think some
of that comes from a shift toonline learning and maybe a
little bit of a greaterskepticism for the traditional
(04:16):
higher ed experience.
But the other piece I thinkthat ties in is such a
future-driven generation and Ithink you really have an
audience thinking about lifeafter high school who aren't
just thinking, hey, what am Igoing to do for the next year
when I enroll in college.
They're really trying to mapback from where am I going to be
in four years or five years?
And in many ways, far, far morethoughtful than I was going
(04:39):
through the college process,post-high school process, far
more thoughtful than my friendswere going through it as well.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (04:48):
Yeah, I have noticed also that a lot of them
are looking at.
When you were talking about thetrades, I think that's nice to
see that people are looking atwhat their interest is.
And then you know, how do I getwhat I want?
And is college always the pathfor that?
And sometimes it's not,Sometimes it is a different
route and also we need thesetrades.
Sam Bernstein (05:05):
So I mean, oh, you're not going to a four-year
(05:25):
college or you're not going tothis four-year college.
The more that we can shift awayfrom that, the more that we can
focus on how are we puttingstudents on paths that make
themselves happy, that offerthem high-paying, viable careers
, and that's really keeping thestudent at the center and rather
than everyone else's opinionaround them and there are a lot
of those.
That's something that we'reexcited to be a part of, but I'd
(05:47):
say it is encouraging to seestudents taking that approach as
a whole.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:49):
Yeah, you talked about the shift of
mindset and I think that thereis a lot of mindset about the
prestige.
You want to go to this collegewith this name.
That's how you're going to getahead.
So what kinds of things do youthink that we need to be doing
to shift that mindset aroundcollege prestige, and how do you
think educators and parents canhelp students focus more on the
(06:11):
fit and not so much theprestige?
Sam Bernstein (06:13):
Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to mind
is just calling out theabsurdity of rankings as a whole
, and there's a bunch ofdifferent ways.
I probably don't have anyoriginal thought on this that
hasn't been shared elsewhere,but it just.
It's very human to like to havethings in an ordered list and
be able to look okay, this isnumber one, this is two, and so
on, but how, amongst thousandsof colleges, can you actually
(06:36):
make any type of ranking thathas viability for everyone?
So, the more that we can callout the absurdity and I think,
remember that this is astressful process for teens and
they might be clinging to theserankings and finding different
ways.
I think, instead of just saying, oh, ignore the rankings and
leaving it at that, maybe bringup the fact that for that
audience of students and theestimate is about 10% of
(06:56):
students in the country arecaught up in the race for highly
selective admissions For thataudience of students calling out
, you're starting to break downand think about okay, if you're
really fixated on attending anIvy League school, probably for
the sake of it being an IvyLeague institution, that gentle
nudge of hey, only 10,000students in a given year are
actually going to these.
Do you really think it's onlythose 10,000 students who have
(07:19):
successful outcomes and so on?
And where I would go off from?
That is trying to get tangiblewith storytelling here.
But I will often hear parentssay I could never get into blank
college today that I went to,and that, while I think it
expresses the meaning and intent, is empathy.
I think a student just hearsthat and it's like you don't get
it, you don't get the processtoday and it's written off.
(07:41):
And I think looking for moretangible examples of, hey, this
person, family friend, someonewho lives down the block, cousin
, whoever it is went to blankschool.
Look at what they're doing now.
There's not a one size fits allpath and that's where I always
turn to my older brother.
Here's a great example Went toMarquette University, good
school, not going to be one thatnecessarily is number eight on
(08:03):
the US News and World Reportrankings list, but man, he's
doing really, really well, greatcareer in enterprise sales and
met some lifelong friends there,and I know a lot of his friends
I could point to a dozen moreof them who have great past,
great careers, met some of theirbest friends, and those
examples I think can illuminatefor a student, there is this
something that I can hold on to.
That isn't a Harvard grad whowent on to do these different
(08:26):
things with their life.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:27):
The value of the education also comes with
how much they're putting into it.
I went to Moraine ValleyCommunity College back in the
day I don't think it's called itanymore.
Some of my most amazing storiescome from the environmental
teacher that was there extremelypassionate, and I went to
University of St Francis outthere in Joliet for my undergrad
, for my teaching certificate,and I will swear it is one of
(08:50):
the best teaching colleges.
The preparation is veryrigorous and they're not ranked
as any like top 10 or anything,but very, very good education.
So I always stand by you knowthe professors put their heart
into it and you're going to findgood education all over.
Sam Bernstein (09:04):
Absolutely no, and it's a great college.
They're definitely a hidden gemin one of those and I think
what we're trying to unloat ishelp to expose those of.
Hey, you've got a student who'sinterested in education, maybe
wants to be near a city, what agreat fit for University of St
Francis and having access toChicago both as an undergrad and
afterwards.
And there are examples of thosetypes of institutions for
(09:28):
different types of students allacross the country.
Unfortunately, it's really hardfor an individual to go expose
that to a high school student.
You shouldn't all be an experton these colleges.
It's where we hope technologycan help, but really just a
different paradigm and approachto the process can help students
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:43):
I liked how you talked about being an expert
in all of these colleges.
There is a lot out there thatyou just don't know until people
go for college visits, collegetours that can not only be very
time consuming but then limited,because you only have so much
time to take off of school, plusthe amount of money that it
takes to go and fly and stay inhotels and to see these, you
(10:04):
know, out of state campuses.
So not everybody has thatopportunity, and so when you
talk about fit, what do you?
What do you mean by that?
Sam Bernstein (10:15):
It's about the student first and foremost, and
we have to start with thestudent and not the institution
and we can define fit in termsof your higher level preferences
.
And I think there are somethings that are.
I almost view them asmust-haves or checkboxes where,
right, I really want to be in acertain part of the country or
it really has to have this onespecific major program, or else
it's not going to work.
Those are almost filters.
(10:36):
But I think if you and this istruly what's happening on Loper
and I think where other actualcollege search tools will stop
is great, it filters down.
And then there's 75 schoolsthat could be shown to a student
and could be shown and it'swell, how do I comb through
those?
And it's starting to think aboutwhat can feel in some cases
like silly questions of, hey,what do you like to do for fun
(10:57):
on the weekends?
What are your favoriteactivities?
It can be questions around whatdo you want for your campus
experience?
What type of clubs do you wantto join?
And do you imagine you'reliving in the dorm for three or
four years?
Do you want to live in anoff-campus apartment?
And continue to go down thatline, and we ask close to a
thousand different what we callprompts on Loper, which is how I
think about this fit processand as students are reacting to
(11:19):
what they are and aren'tinterested in.
It's really going for thatholistic definition of a
student's interests.
And what I love to hear fromstudents is something along the
lines of you know, I didn't evenknow I could ask about blank
and tie into college, but justbeing presented with it can
force the question and sometimesin those follow on questions
for fit where you start to divea little bit deeper and you just
(11:41):
realize, wow, what's reallygoing to make me happy and stand
out as something that no oneelse might care might be really
small, that matters that.
Those are those elements of fitfor me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (11:49):
We see such a high rate of freshmen dropping
out, and part of that is how dothey feel in that environment?
You don't know how theenvironment is until you
actually arrive there.
You're going through theprocess and so having a better
fit, like you're talking about.
What do you like to do for fun?
What do you want to besurrounded by?
What kind of clubs are you wantto be engaged in?
(12:11):
It's those activities that makethe connections, that make them
happy, that will make them wantto stay in school longer.
So in a thousand questions,that's pretty amazing.
What's missing in traditionalplanning tools and how did that
influence your vision for Loper?
Sam Bernstein (12:25):
I think the approach towards the process.
We think about it as we needheavy structure and these tools
and how do we figure outshortcuts in the system.
And as we start talking aboutit, I just imagine high school
students getting more and morestressed and that's something
I'm very empathetic of as Ithink back on my own process, on
(12:45):
my friend's process as well,where I think we end up turning
this into and it is a veryimportant decision, don't get me
wrong but we turn it into theimportant decision and the
critical process where, yes,it's very important but, as we
talked about a little bitearlier, there are so many great
options out there.
There is not a one perfectoption.
(13:07):
We aren't trying to get down toone of one.
We're trying to end up findingwhat these different, viable and
exciting paths are.
And it's this really excitingtransition point, at least here
in the US, is in some ways, kindof the transition to adulthood,
or at least frame that way, andthat should be fun, that should
be exciting, and that's what wewanted to introduce with Loper
is just being a little morestress-free and more about
(13:29):
what's next.
How can I be excited forwhatever that path is, and it's
not about what my friends aredoing or what someone tells me I
should be doing, but what I'minterested in doing, and it's
part of why we really wanted tobuild on mobile.
We wanted to make this morecarefree, more about how
students are consuming contentnaturally today, and try and
facilitate more of that likelight bulb moment that has,
instead of a parent or aneducator turned to a student and
(13:52):
saying, well, lisa, what areyou interested in?
Have you thought about this,where it's actually a student
going forward and saying I justlearned about this and you get
that kind of moment of joy anddiscovery.
That's what we're hoping to seemore of.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:03):
How does Loper turn that checklist style
planning process into a morestudent driven experience?
You're talking about somethingthat's very, maybe, mundane or
structured into something thatGen Z is more attracted to, more
visual appeal, something that'sless static.
Sam Bernstein (14:20):
Yeah, so we have, in terms of that visual and
interactive nature or havingstudents react to what we call
prompts within a feed on the app.
It looks a little bit likesometimes I hate saying it, but
a little bit like a TikTok feedor Instagram Reels feed, but I
think it can help illuminatewhat that interface looks like
for students and this can becontent about majors, content
(14:41):
about clubs, as I mentioned, oncampus, facilities on campus,
different careers that you'reinterested in.
We have video content.
Some of this content comes fromcolleges themselves that we'll
incorporate in the app, and thena lot of just general
introspection questions and asstudents are reacting.
That's what is powering ourpersonalized matches and we want
to again turn this intosomething that's proactive and
(15:02):
coming from students there whereit's not.
Here's your two-page PDF ofthings you need to check off and
do over the next three to sixmonths.
Focus more on building thatexcitement and it turns into
okay, I'm interested in thesepieces and I'm starting to learn
about these schools and I cansee personalized detail on why
it's a good fit for me and thenhaving that checklist almost
(15:22):
flow from that.
And yes, there's absolutelythings in kind of each grade
within high school that you needto be doing and really for
freshmen and sophomores it'shave fun, focus on your grades,
figure out what you'reinterested in, but you check
those boxes and then having thechecklist and the process flow
from the interests and discoveryand the excitement there and as
a product.
We launched an applicationcenter on the app last year and
(15:45):
this year we're going to beexpanding that into a web
interface as well where we canactually help students give
their parents and other advisorsand their life visibility into
not just this list of schoolsand their interests but then
some of those dates anddeadlines and more checklist
focused options.
You've got visibility there aswell.
It's not all about the checklist, but then you have the student
(16:06):
excited and starting to gothrough it and then for, I think
, parents and every singleparent I talk to, it's a two out
of 10, three out of 10 inconfidence level for the process
in ways that we can out getthat Not going to pretend we'll
get it to a 10, but we can getthat to a six or seven out of 10
.
And there's just a little bitmore comfort that your child,
your students, going throughthis the right way and that they
(16:28):
aren't going to miss somethingthat should be on a checklist,
but that the entire thing isn'tjust a checklist.
That is pulling teeth to getthem to do.
We're trying to walk.
I don't know if it's a tightrope, but definitely find that
right balance as students gothrough the process.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:39):
That's helpful because there's a lot of steps
within this process and there'sonly, like usually, one guidance
counselor at a school, a lot ofstudents having to depend on
them.
So anything that is out therethat will help excite the kids
to be more engaged in thisprocess and to be more
independent and student driven.
Really ratio something in thatballpark.
Sam Bernstein (17:00):
It's just there's not enough counselors.
You're stretched so thin.
If you're lucky you might get15 minutes with a student and we
want to help make that 15minutes count.
But also recognize there's awhole lot that you need to get
(17:21):
done when talking to a studentand sometimes pieces that are
really important or designed toget students excited in the
process.
It just doesn't fit for thatschool day or that meeting.
So we can support counselors inany way or just be a resource
in their toolkit to share withstudents.
That's an amazing outcome forus and definitely one of the
reasons we wanted to start LOPAin the first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (17:42):
You talked a little bit about vocation
schools, so this is not justuniversities for career paths.
What kind of options are yougiving kids?
Sam Bernstein (17:51):
We're looking at different buckets, ranging from
gap year programs and evenbringing some summer programs on
to Loper as well for thattransition period.
But then, thinking about, youhave community colleges, trade
schools, vocational schools,apprenticeships, direct to
workforce pathways and a couplethat come to mind here Lead for
(18:12):
America.
It's a civic, service-basedcareer pathway.
You have maybe 20 differentlocal sites where they're
helping match students, they'reworking within local government
and then for those students manyof them are going to college
afterwards.
You have this amazing workexperience where you're working
full-time, you're earning asalary, you're getting real
hands-on experience.
Amazing to have thatperspective going into college.
(18:34):
But then, for a subset of thosestudents as well, they either
find something they're reallypassionate about, decide college
isn't the right time for them,isn't right for them, and they
continue working towards that.
There are some amazing programsand what we want to think about
doing for students who arelooking outside of the college
space is be a platform of trustwhere, if you learn about an
opportunity on Loper, you havesome degree of trust that this
(18:57):
is a viable pathway, that you'regoing to get some type of
training, upskilling experience,life experience that has value,
and that is something that Ithink is so, so hard for anyone.
It's hard enough when you'relooking within four-year
colleges to find that good fitand that viability, but it's
almost like the Wild West whenyou start to look outside of it
and it's just feels likestudents and families as a whole
(19:21):
are yearning for that degree ofextra thumbs up, of just like
okay, this is, this does makesense for me and is good to
pursue.
So that's what we're hoping tobring to the platform and, as we
grow and we expand thoseoptions on Loper, the ability to
compare a four-year collegefrom a two-year college, from a
trade school from a directworkforce option, all side by
side, and have thatpersonalization to it.
(19:41):
I think we're still buildingtowards that.
That's what excites me the most, because I really don't see a
single way out there for someoneto actually make that
comparison, because they aren'tapples to apples.
They are very different andit's going to be different for
every single person andevaluating which of those
options as a whole is right forthem, let alone the individual
pathways within those kind ofhigher level options.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:06):
You've been doing this for three years.
Have you had any feedback fromanyone who has gone through the
process and what have they beensaying about it?
Sam Bernstein (20:10):
We're really proud of a 4.8 star rating on
the App Store with, I think,coming past 1,200 reviews now.
And then when we survey ourusers, 90% are applying to a
match that they have on Loperand I think two thirds of them
(20:30):
actually first discovered thaton Loper as well.
So that's kind of the closingfeedback loops on the overall
process that we really like toturn to from that objective data
.
But I think the subjective sideis what we hear from students
when we talk to them is they'venever had this type of
personalized experience whereit's hey, this actually took the
time to get to know me and thisbeing loper.
(20:56):
What is surprised or encouragedyou about how students who are
showing a willingness to exploreoptions they hadn't heard of,
to come back to that prestigepiece from earlier in the
conversation and that two-thirdsapplying to a school that they
discovered on Loper Reallyexciting to me.
I think it speaks some to ouraudience and our user base
skewing a little bit younger, alittle bit more first-gen than
(21:19):
the country as a whole, andexciting for us from the
accessibility piece as well.
So also encouraging on both ofthose are seeing students come
onto the app who may not havewithin their families, that the
context of a college goingculture.
There's this really likespecial trust that comes from,
you know, whether it's a humanbeing or a product, giving you
almost that second thumbs upthere for the option, and so
(21:42):
that's been encouraging, youknow, the belief in students
that they're, you know, at leastwilling to consider something
new.
Then I think one of the there'squite a few surprising pieces
that I've seen, but one isactually we have students who
will come on, you know, a yearlater and that's come from the
tour having the product live foralmost three years now, where
(22:05):
you have your unique IDs and youcan kind of see okay, when did
someone first create an account?
If we're looking at data on ourside, it's like, oh, wow, we
had usage from X number ofpeople who first or last logged
on six plus months ago or 12months ago, and we want to have
a more unified experience forthem in those gaps.
But to have someone who says,you know, as a sophomore, I use
(22:26):
this product and I learned aboutsome schools, and then, you
know, my opinions have changed,my interests have changed.
Maybe I just want to start allover again to come back.
That's, you know, bothencouraging and surprising.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:34):
You talked about first generation students
that are using the app.
How does Loper help close thoseaccess gaps or support equity
in future planning?
Sam Bernstein (22:45):
Yeah, the first is it's a free mobile app and I
probably should have said thatand shouted it from the rooftops
earlier on this podcast.
But we're free, free forstudents, free for counselors
who want to use the product withstudents, free for parents
using it with students.
But that's just kind of thebaseline.
We want to up the level of freeresources for students that are
out there.
And then the next piece is thatwe try and really assume no
(23:06):
knowledge in going through theprocess.
And if we explain a term likeliving learning community or
themed housing and we show thatas a prompt for a student to
react to, you probably have noidea.
Heck, I would have had no ideawhat that is, and my older
brother had gone to college twoor three years before me.
Heck, I would have had no ideawhat that is, and my older
brother had gone to college twoor three years before me.
And we want to explain whetherit's a term like that or
(23:26):
something that feels more basic,like liberal arts college and
what that is Just having theopportunity to hit a button,
learn more and it's one of thenice pieces of technology where
I think it's very easy to feelself-conscious when you bring
that up to a human.
When you're asking a questionthat you think you should know
whether or not that's true, justto have that presented to you
in a way that there's not even athought of asking a question or
(23:48):
clicking to learn more.
That's important for us becauseif we start to make assumptions
about what students know, goingin the process or act like you
should already know this,there's nothing more
discouraging than that.
And there's nothing morediscouraging than feeling like
you're behind in the processwhen realistically, as a
first-gen student, you have thefeeling that you're behind from
(24:13):
day one, just from nature of nothaving other people in your
family having attended highereducation.
So that's very, very importantfor us in assuming no knowledge.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (24:18):
That's a great thing, because there's been so
many times when someone has saidan acronym around me and I've
thought I have no idea what thatmeans.
These acronyms get verycasually thrown around and it's
assumed that everybody knowswhat they are and they don't,
and so you do leave people outwhen you start assuming, and so
I'm glad that you addressed that, because it feels inclusive
(24:41):
versus exclusive when you dothat.
Sam Bernstein (24:43):
That's our goal and I think for any parents,
counselors, educators, listeningthink about that feeling you
have when your students areusing acronyms or slang and you
don't know what it is and you'refeeling old and left out.
Just think about that feelingon the inverse when you start
using these terms or acronymsfor your students.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:02):
So that little bit of empathy is very helpful,
definitely, yeah.
Well, what kind of advice wouldyou give to educators or
parents who want to supportstudents without creating that
additional pressure when itcomes to applying for colleges
or life after high schoolplanning?
Sam Bernstein (25:17):
Yeah, I think, at risk of stating the obvious, I
would certainly say downloadLOAPER, check it out for
yourself, show it to students.
We do want to be a tool in thatprocess, but one of the general
pieces that I think about isremembering that your words
really have power here in thisprocess.
And this is already somethingthat students are turning into
being more stressful, bigger,more personal in many ways than
(25:39):
it really is.
And a comment that sounds nicein your head may be taken in a
much different way than youintend it, just because they've
wrapped up so much in thatprocess.
And coming off of that, I thinkthat sometimes those comments
of how is it going in the reallygeneral comments, are the worst
.
But being able to be a littlebit more specific in questions
(26:00):
about a specific interest or aspecific school or a specific
part of the process, that cansometimes facilitate more
general conversations where itfeels easier to respond to that
than that question of how's itgoing can sometimes just be
frozen deer in headlights.
What do I do?
What do I say?
And just remember that studentshave baked so much into that
(26:20):
process, which leads to thefinal point I'd make, which is
just to celebrate the inputs andnot just the outputs here.
Sometimes we're waiting untilacceptances are coming out to
say congratulations or good job,especially if you have students
who are applying to thosehighly selective schools where,
realistically, it's a numbersgame in many ways and just the
fact that you're in thatposition to have a chance to
(26:42):
attend one of those schools issomething worth celebrating.
And I think it means a lot forstudents when they're hearing
that in September, october,november and not just sitting
there hoping that they mighthear that from someone in March
or April.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:54):
It's like a let's celebrate.
You turned in some applications.
That's a big thing.
Let's go.
You know, have a pizza.
Sam Bernstein (27:01):
I don't know, that's a big thing, let's go you
know, have a pizza.
I don't know.
So enjoy the process.
Yeah, enjoy the process andheck your senior year of high
school for you, and you know, Ithink it's sometimes you get the
healthy cynic as the adultwhere it's, you kind of forget
of like, oh well, it's just onebuilding block on.
You know this greater life pathand career path, man, if you're
(27:21):
18 years, 17, 18 years old,that's all you know.
This greater life path andcareer path, man, if you're 18
years, 17, 18 years old, that'sall you know.
You know 17, 18 years, and it'snothing insignificant to be in
that position and to be goingthrough this process in the
first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:32):
Well, great advice, and thank you so much,
Sam, for coming on the show andfor sharing all of your insights
and for creating Glover to helpfill the gap.
Support our guidance counselors, support our parents, our
students, most of all.
Sam Bernstein (27:45):
Thank you so much for having me and really
excited to see where the productgoes in the next year.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:51):
If today's conversation sparked new ideas
or shifted how you viewpost-secondary planning.
I encourage you to exploretools and conversations that
center student voice and values.
When we meet students wherethey are, we open the door to
futures that truly are their own.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
(28:14):
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
(28:34):
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
What if planning for life after high
school didn't have to feel sooverwhelming for students,
parents or educators?
Today, we explore howrethinking post-secondary
planning can lead to morepersonalized, confident and
future-ready decisions.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research, innovation
(00:26):
and resources.
I'm your host, dr Lisa Hassler,here to enlighten and brighten
the classrooms in Americathrough focused conversation on
important topics in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we, as teachers and
parents, are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:46):
student outcomes?
Helping students plan for lifeafter high school is one of the
most important and increasinglycomplex tasks we face as
educators and parents.
While college has traditionallybeen seen as the next step,
that's changing.
A 2023 Gallup and Walton FamilyFoundation survey found that
just 74% of Gen Z teens plan toattend college, a noticeable
(01:07):
drop from prior generations.
Many are asking deeperquestions what's the right path
for me?
What does success look like?
And, at the same time, theprocess itself is deeply
stressful.
According to the PrincetonReview, over 70% of students
experience high stress duringcollege planning.
For many, it feels like achecklist with no clear
direction, especially whenresources are stretched thin.
(01:28):
The average school counselor is, unfortunately, 400 students,
making individualized guidance achallenge, and there's a
disconnect in how we communicatethese options.
Gen Z interacts with the worldthrough mobile-first, fast-paced
, highly visual platforms, yetmost planning tools are still
static and outdated, leavingstudents disengaged from the
(01:48):
process entirely.
What emerges is a clear need amore personalized, relevant
approach to helping studentsexplore their futures, one that
reflects who they are, how theylearn and where they wanna go.
Today's guest, sam Bernstein,offers just that an innovative
solution designed to meetstudents where they are and
guide them towards what's nextwith clarity and confidence.
(02:09):
Sam co-founded Loper, a freeapp that helps students explore
their best fit options afterhigh school.
Loper is designed to feel morelike TikTok than a college
brochure engaging, personalizedand built around how Gen Z
discovers information.
Sam's work has already guidednearly 200,000 students towards
educational and career pathsthat align with both their
(02:30):
interests and goals.
His mission is simple butpowerful to give students the
tools and confidence to makeinformed decisions about their
futures, without the pressure ofprestige or outdated planning
methods.
Today, we'll hear how Loper istransforming post-secondary
planning and what educators andparents can do to better support
students in this journey.
Sam, welcome to the BrighterSide of Education.
(02:51):
I'm really excited to talk toyou about Loper and all the
great things that it is doingfor students looking ahead at
their futures after high school.
Sam Bernstein (02:59):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for having meReally excited for the
conversation.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:02):
So what kind of trends are you noticing that
are emerging in how studentstoday are thinking about life
after high school?
Sam Bernstein (03:09):
Yeah, I think there's a few really interesting
ones on our side that we'reseeing, and one, I think, comes
in some ways directly out of thepandemic and then maybe some
lingering effects, but I think,also just a response to some of
the realities of highereducation in that increasing
number of students interested instaying at home.
And when I say staying at home,not just looking at options
locally, but actually saying no,I'm not as interested in going
(03:33):
on campus, living in the dorms,I'd rather either save money or
be around my parents, be aroundmy family and actually looking
to live at home as well asexplore options outside of
four-year college, which I thinkthere's a lot of different
angles on, that cost being oneof them, and it ties into the
second point that I have aroundthe trends that we're seeing but
so interesting in speaking withhigh school students and seeing
(03:55):
their interests that theyexpress on Loper's mobile app,
we have students who are sayingI do want to look at the trades,
I do want to look atapprenticeship options and
looking to earn money save moneyeither side of the equation.
So one interesting trend thatwe're seeing, and I think some
of that comes from a shift toonline learning and maybe a
little bit of a greaterskepticism for the traditional
(04:16):
higher ed experience.
But the other piece I thinkthat ties in is such a
future-driven generation and Ithink you really have an
audience thinking about lifeafter high school who aren't
just thinking, hey, what am Igoing to do for the next year
when I enroll in college.
They're really trying to mapback from where am I going to be
in four years or five years?
And in many ways, far, far morethoughtful than I was going
(04:39):
through the college process,post-high school process, far
more thoughtful than my friendswere going through it as well.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (04:48):
Yeah, I have noticed also that a lot of them
are looking at.
When you were talking about thetrades, I think that's nice to
see that people are looking atwhat their interest is.
And then you know, how do I getwhat I want?
And is college always the pathfor that?
And sometimes it's not,Sometimes it is a different
route and also we need thesetrades.
Sam Bernstein (05:05):
So I mean, oh, you're not going to a four-year
(05:25):
college or you're not going tothis four-year college.
The more that we can shift awayfrom that, the more that we can
focus on how are we puttingstudents on paths that make
themselves happy, that offerthem high-paying, viable careers
, and that's really keeping thestudent at the center and rather
than everyone else's opinionaround them and there are a lot
of those.
That's something that we'reexcited to be a part of, but I'd
(05:47):
say it is encouraging to seestudents taking that approach as
a whole.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:49):
Yeah, you talked about the shift of
mindset and I think that thereis a lot of mindset about the
prestige.
You want to go to this collegewith this name.
That's how you're going to getahead.
So what kinds of things do youthink that we need to be doing
to shift that mindset aroundcollege prestige, and how do you
think educators and parents canhelp students focus more on the
(06:11):
fit and not so much theprestige?
Sam Bernstein (06:13):
Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to mind
is just calling out theabsurdity of rankings as a whole
, and there's a bunch ofdifferent ways.
I probably don't have anyoriginal thought on this that
hasn't been shared elsewhere,but it just.
It's very human to like to havethings in an ordered list and
be able to look okay, this isnumber one, this is two, and so
on, but how, amongst thousandsof colleges, can you actually
(06:36):
make any type of ranking thathas viability for everyone?
So, the more that we can callout the absurdity and I think,
remember that this is astressful process for teens and
they might be clinging to theserankings and finding different
ways.
I think, instead of just saying, oh, ignore the rankings and
leaving it at that, maybe bringup the fact that for that
audience of students and theestimate is about 10% of
(06:56):
students in the country arecaught up in the race for highly
selective admissions For thataudience of students calling out
, you're starting to break downand think about okay, if you're
really fixated on attending anIvy League school, probably for
the sake of it being an IvyLeague institution, that gentle
nudge of hey, only 10,000students in a given year are
actually going to these.
Do you really think it's onlythose 10,000 students who have
(07:19):
successful outcomes and so on?
And where I would go off from?
That is trying to get tangiblewith storytelling here.
But I will often hear parentssay I could never get into blank
college today that I went to,and that, while I think it
expresses the meaning and intent, is empathy.
I think a student just hearsthat and it's like you don't get
it, you don't get the processtoday and it's written off.
(07:41):
And I think looking for moretangible examples of, hey, this
person, family friend, someonewho lives down the block, cousin
, whoever it is went to blankschool.
Look at what they're doing now.
There's not a one size fits allpath and that's where I always
turn to my older brother.
Here's a great example Went toMarquette University, good
school, not going to be one thatnecessarily is number eight on
(08:03):
the US News and World Reportrankings list, but man, he's
doing really, really well, greatcareer in enterprise sales and
met some lifelong friends there,and I know a lot of his friends
I could point to a dozen moreof them who have great past,
great careers, met some of theirbest friends, and those
examples I think can illuminatefor a student, there is this
something that I can hold on to.
That isn't a Harvard grad whowent on to do these different
(08:26):
things with their life.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:27):
The value of the education also comes with
how much they're putting into it.
I went to Moraine ValleyCommunity College back in the
day I don't think it's called itanymore.
Some of my most amazing storiescome from the environmental
teacher that was there extremelypassionate, and I went to
University of St Francis outthere in Joliet for my undergrad
, for my teaching certificate,and I will swear it is one of
(08:50):
the best teaching colleges.
The preparation is veryrigorous and they're not ranked
as any like top 10 or anything,but very, very good education.
So I always stand by you knowthe professors put their heart
into it and you're going to findgood education all over.
Sam Bernstein (09:04):
Absolutely no, and it's a great college.
They're definitely a hidden gemin one of those and I think
what we're trying to unloat ishelp to expose those of.
Hey, you've got a student who'sinterested in education, maybe
wants to be near a city, what agreat fit for University of St
Francis and having access toChicago both as an undergrad and
afterwards.
And there are examples of thosetypes of institutions for
(09:28):
different types of students allacross the country.
Unfortunately, it's really hardfor an individual to go expose
that to a high school student.
You shouldn't all be an experton these colleges.
It's where we hope technologycan help, but really just a
different paradigm and approachto the process can help students
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:43):
I liked how you talked about being an expert
in all of these colleges.
There is a lot out there thatyou just don't know until people
go for college visits, collegetours that can not only be very
time consuming but then limited,because you only have so much
time to take off of school, plusthe amount of money that it
takes to go and fly and stay inhotels and to see these, you
(10:04):
know, out of state campuses.
So not everybody has thatopportunity, and so when you
talk about fit, what do you?
What do you mean by that?
Sam Bernstein (10:15):
It's about the student first and foremost, and
we have to start with thestudent and not the institution
and we can define fit in termsof your higher level preferences
.
And I think there are somethings that are.
I almost view them asmust-haves or checkboxes where,
right, I really want to be in acertain part of the country or
it really has to have this onespecific major program, or else
it's not going to work.
Those are almost filters.
(10:36):
But I think if you and this istruly what's happening on Loper
and I think where other actualcollege search tools will stop
is great, it filters down.
And then there's 75 schoolsthat could be shown to a student
and could be shown and it'swell, how do I comb through
those?
And it's starting to think aboutwhat can feel in some cases
like silly questions of, hey,what do you like to do for fun
(10:57):
on the weekends?
What are your favoriteactivities?
It can be questions around whatdo you want for your campus
experience?
What type of clubs do you wantto join?
And do you imagine you'reliving in the dorm for three or
four years?
Do you want to live in anoff-campus apartment?
And continue to go down thatline, and we ask close to a
thousand different what we callprompts on Loper, which is how I
think about this fit processand as students are reacting to
(11:19):
what they are and aren'tinterested in.
It's really going for thatholistic definition of a
student's interests.
And what I love to hear fromstudents is something along the
lines of you know, I didn't evenknow I could ask about blank
and tie into college, but justbeing presented with it can
force the question and sometimesin those follow on questions
for fit where you start to divea little bit deeper and you just
(11:41):
realize, wow, what's reallygoing to make me happy and stand
out as something that no oneelse might care might be really
small, that matters that.
Those are those elements of fitfor me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (11:49):
We see such a high rate of freshmen dropping
out, and part of that is how dothey feel in that environment?
You don't know how theenvironment is until you
actually arrive there.
You're going through theprocess and so having a better
fit, like you're talking about.
What do you like to do for fun?
What do you want to besurrounded by?
What kind of clubs are you wantto be engaged in?
(12:11):
It's those activities that makethe connections, that make them
happy, that will make them wantto stay in school longer.
So in a thousand questions,that's pretty amazing.
What's missing in traditionalplanning tools and how did that
influence your vision for Loper?
Sam Bernstein (12:25):
I think the approach towards the process.
We think about it as we needheavy structure and these tools
and how do we figure outshortcuts in the system.
And as we start talking aboutit, I just imagine high school
students getting more and morestressed and that's something
I'm very empathetic of as Ithink back on my own process, on
(12:45):
my friend's process as well,where I think we end up turning
this into and it is a veryimportant decision, don't get me
wrong but we turn it into theimportant decision and the
critical process where, yes,it's very important but, as we
talked about a little bitearlier, there are so many great
options out there.
There is not a one perfectoption.
(13:07):
We aren't trying to get down toone of one.
We're trying to end up findingwhat these different, viable and
exciting paths are.
And it's this really excitingtransition point, at least here
in the US, is in some ways, kindof the transition to adulthood,
or at least frame that way, andthat should be fun, that should
be exciting, and that's what wewanted to introduce with Loper
is just being a little morestress-free and more about
(13:29):
what's next.
How can I be excited forwhatever that path is, and it's
not about what my friends aredoing or what someone tells me I
should be doing, but what I'minterested in doing, and it's
part of why we really wanted tobuild on mobile.
We wanted to make this morecarefree, more about how
students are consuming contentnaturally today, and try and
facilitate more of that likelight bulb moment that has,
instead of a parent or aneducator turned to a student and
(13:52):
saying, well, lisa, what areyou interested in?
Have you thought about this,where it's actually a student
going forward and saying I justlearned about this and you get
that kind of moment of joy anddiscovery.
That's what we're hoping to seemore of.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:03):
How does Loper turn that checklist style
planning process into a morestudent driven experience?
You're talking about somethingthat's very, maybe, mundane or
structured into something thatGen Z is more attracted to, more
visual appeal, something that'sless static.
Sam Bernstein (14:20):
Yeah, so we have, in terms of that visual and
interactive nature or havingstudents react to what we call
prompts within a feed on the app.
It looks a little bit likesometimes I hate saying it, but
a little bit like a TikTok feedor Instagram Reels feed, but I
think it can help illuminatewhat that interface looks like
for students and this can becontent about majors, content
(14:41):
about clubs, as I mentioned, oncampus, facilities on campus,
different careers that you'reinterested in.
We have video content.
Some of this content comes fromcolleges themselves that we'll
incorporate in the app, and thena lot of just general
introspection questions and asstudents are reacting.
That's what is powering ourpersonalized matches and we want
to again turn this intosomething that's proactive and
(15:02):
coming from students there whereit's not.
Here's your two-page PDF ofthings you need to check off and
do over the next three to sixmonths.
Focus more on building thatexcitement and it turns into
okay, I'm interested in thesepieces and I'm starting to learn
about these schools and I cansee personalized detail on why
it's a good fit for me and thenhaving that checklist almost
(15:22):
flow from that.
And yes, there's absolutelythings in kind of each grade
within high school that you needto be doing and really for
freshmen and sophomores it'shave fun, focus on your grades,
figure out what you'reinterested in, but you check
those boxes and then having thechecklist and the process flow
from the interests and discoveryand the excitement there and as
a product.
We launched an applicationcenter on the app last year and
(15:45):
this year we're going to beexpanding that into a web
interface as well where we canactually help students give
their parents and other advisorsand their life visibility into
not just this list of schoolsand their interests but then
some of those dates anddeadlines and more checklist
focused options.
You've got visibility there aswell.
It's not all about the checklist, but then you have the student
(16:06):
excited and starting to gothrough it and then for, I think
, parents and every singleparent I talk to, it's a two out
of 10, three out of 10 inconfidence level for the process
in ways that we can out getthat Not going to pretend we'll
get it to a 10, but we can getthat to a six or seven out of 10
.
And there's just a little bitmore comfort that your child,
your students, going throughthis the right way and that they
(16:28):
aren't going to miss somethingthat should be on a checklist,
but that the entire thing isn'tjust a checklist.
That is pulling teeth to getthem to do.
We're trying to walk.
I don't know if it's a tightrope, but definitely find that
right balance as students gothrough the process.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (16:39):
That's helpful because there's a lot of steps
within this process and there'sonly, like usually, one guidance
counselor at a school, a lot ofstudents having to depend on
them.
So anything that is out therethat will help excite the kids
to be more engaged in thisprocess and to be more
independent and student driven.
Really ratio something in thatballpark.
Sam Bernstein (17:00):
It's just there's not enough counselors.
You're stretched so thin.
If you're lucky you might get15 minutes with a student and we
want to help make that 15minutes count.
But also recognize there's awhole lot that you need to get
(17:21):
done when talking to a studentand sometimes pieces that are
really important or designed toget students excited in the
process.
It just doesn't fit for thatschool day or that meeting.
So we can support counselors inany way or just be a resource
in their toolkit to share withstudents.
That's an amazing outcome forus and definitely one of the
reasons we wanted to start LOPAin the first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (17:42):
You talked a little bit about vocation
schools, so this is not justuniversities for career paths.
What kind of options are yougiving kids?
Sam Bernstein (17:51):
We're looking at different buckets, ranging from
gap year programs and evenbringing some summer programs on
to Loper as well for thattransition period.
But then, thinking about, youhave community colleges, trade
schools, vocational schools,apprenticeships, direct to
workforce pathways and a couplethat come to mind here Lead for
(18:12):
America.
It's a civic, service-basedcareer pathway.
You have maybe 20 differentlocal sites where they're
helping match students, they'reworking within local government
and then for those students manyof them are going to college
afterwards.
You have this amazing workexperience where you're working
full-time, you're earning asalary, you're getting real
hands-on experience.
Amazing to have thatperspective going into college.
(18:34):
But then, for a subset of thosestudents as well, they either
find something they're reallypassionate about, decide college
isn't the right time for them,isn't right for them, and they
continue working towards that.
There are some amazing programsand what we want to think about
doing for students who arelooking outside of the college
space is be a platform of trustwhere, if you learn about an
opportunity on Loper, you havesome degree of trust that this
(18:57):
is a viable pathway, that you'regoing to get some type of
training, upskilling experience,life experience that has value,
and that is something that Ithink is so, so hard for anyone.
It's hard enough when you'relooking within four-year
colleges to find that good fitand that viability, but it's
almost like the Wild West whenyou start to look outside of it
and it's just feels likestudents and families as a whole
(19:21):
are yearning for that degree ofextra thumbs up, of just like
okay, this is, this does makesense for me and is good to
pursue.
So that's what we're hoping tobring to the platform and, as we
grow and we expand thoseoptions on Loper, the ability to
compare a four-year collegefrom a two-year college, from a
trade school from a directworkforce option, all side by
side, and have thatpersonalization to it.
(19:41):
I think we're still buildingtowards that.
That's what excites me the most, because I really don't see a
single way out there for someoneto actually make that
comparison, because they aren'tapples to apples.
They are very different andit's going to be different for
every single person andevaluating which of those
options as a whole is right forthem, let alone the individual
pathways within those kind ofhigher level options.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:06):
You've been doing this for three years.
Have you had any feedback fromanyone who has gone through the
process and what have they beensaying about it?
Sam Bernstein (20:10):
We're really proud of a 4.8 star rating on
the App Store with, I think,coming past 1,200 reviews now.
And then when we survey ourusers, 90% are applying to a
match that they have on Loperand I think two thirds of them
(20:30):
actually first discovered thaton Loper as well.
So that's kind of the closingfeedback loops on the overall
process that we really like toturn to from that objective data
.
But I think the subjective sideis what we hear from students
when we talk to them is they'venever had this type of
personalized experience whereit's hey, this actually took the
time to get to know me and thisbeing loper.
(20:56):
What is surprised or encouragedyou about how students who are
showing a willingness to exploreoptions they hadn't heard of,
to come back to that prestigepiece from earlier in the
conversation and that two-thirdsapplying to a school that they
discovered on Loper Reallyexciting to me.
I think it speaks some to ouraudience and our user base
skewing a little bit younger, alittle bit more first-gen than
(21:19):
the country as a whole, andexciting for us from the
accessibility piece as well.
So also encouraging on both ofthose are seeing students come
onto the app who may not havewithin their families, that the
context of a college goingculture.
There's this really likespecial trust that comes from,
you know, whether it's a humanbeing or a product, giving you
almost that second thumbs upthere for the option, and so
(21:42):
that's been encouraging, youknow, the belief in students
that they're, you know, at leastwilling to consider something
new.
Then I think one of the there'squite a few surprising pieces
that I've seen, but one isactually we have students who
will come on, you know, a yearlater and that's come from the
tour having the product live foralmost three years now, where
(22:05):
you have your unique IDs and youcan kind of see okay, when did
someone first create an account?
If we're looking at data on ourside, it's like, oh, wow, we
had usage from X number ofpeople who first or last logged
on six plus months ago or 12months ago, and we want to have
a more unified experience forthem in those gaps.
But to have someone who says,you know, as a sophomore, I use
(22:26):
this product and I learned aboutsome schools, and then, you
know, my opinions have changed,my interests have changed.
Maybe I just want to start allover again to come back.
That's, you know, bothencouraging and surprising.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (22:34):
You talked about first generation students
that are using the app.
How does Loper help close thoseaccess gaps or support equity
in future planning?
Sam Bernstein (22:45):
Yeah, the first is it's a free mobile app and I
probably should have said thatand shouted it from the rooftops
earlier on this podcast.
But we're free, free forstudents, free for counselors
who want to use the product withstudents, free for parents
using it with students.
But that's just kind of thebaseline.
We want to up the level of freeresources for students that are
out there.
And then the next piece is thatwe try and really assume no
(23:06):
knowledge in going through theprocess.
And if we explain a term likeliving learning community or
themed housing and we show thatas a prompt for a student to
react to, you probably have noidea.
Heck, I would have had no ideawhat that is, and my older
brother had gone to college twoor three years before me.
Heck, I would have had no ideawhat that is, and my older
brother had gone to college twoor three years before me.
And we want to explain whetherit's a term like that or
(23:26):
something that feels more basic,like liberal arts college and
what that is Just having theopportunity to hit a button,
learn more and it's one of thenice pieces of technology where
I think it's very easy to feelself-conscious when you bring
that up to a human.
When you're asking a questionthat you think you should know
whether or not that's true, justto have that presented to you
in a way that there's not even athought of asking a question or
(23:48):
clicking to learn more.
That's important for us becauseif we start to make assumptions
about what students know, goingin the process or act like you
should already know this,there's nothing more
discouraging than that.
And there's nothing morediscouraging than feeling like
you're behind in the processwhen realistically, as a
first-gen student, you have thefeeling that you're behind from
(24:13):
day one, just from nature of nothaving other people in your
family having attended highereducation.
So that's very, very importantfor us in assuming no knowledge.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (24:18):
That's a great thing, because there's been so
many times when someone has saidan acronym around me and I've
thought I have no idea what thatmeans.
These acronyms get verycasually thrown around and it's
assumed that everybody knowswhat they are and they don't,
and so you do leave people outwhen you start assuming, and so
I'm glad that you addressed that, because it feels inclusive
(24:41):
versus exclusive when you dothat.
Sam Bernstein (24:43):
That's our goal and I think for any parents,
counselors, educators, listeningthink about that feeling you
have when your students areusing acronyms or slang and you
don't know what it is and you'refeeling old and left out.
Just think about that feelingon the inverse when you start
using these terms or acronymsfor your students.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:02):
So that little bit of empathy is very helpful,
definitely, yeah.
Well, what kind of advice wouldyou give to educators or
parents who want to supportstudents without creating that
additional pressure when itcomes to applying for colleges
or life after high schoolplanning?
Sam Bernstein (25:17):
Yeah, I think, at risk of stating the obvious, I
would certainly say downloadLOAPER, check it out for
yourself, show it to students.
We do want to be a tool in thatprocess, but one of the general
pieces that I think about isremembering that your words
really have power here in thisprocess.
And this is already somethingthat students are turning into
being more stressful, bigger,more personal in many ways than
(25:39):
it really is.
And a comment that sounds nicein your head may be taken in a
much different way than youintend it, just because they've
wrapped up so much in thatprocess.
And coming off of that, I thinkthat sometimes those comments
of how is it going in the reallygeneral comments, are the worst
.
But being able to be a littlebit more specific in questions
(26:00):
about a specific interest or aspecific school or a specific
part of the process, that cansometimes facilitate more
general conversations where itfeels easier to respond to that
than that question of how's itgoing can sometimes just be
frozen deer in headlights.
What do I do?
What do I say?
And just remember that studentshave baked so much into that
(26:20):
process, which leads to thefinal point I'd make, which is
just to celebrate the inputs andnot just the outputs here.
Sometimes we're waiting untilacceptances are coming out to
say congratulations or good job,especially if you have students
who are applying to thosehighly selective schools where,
realistically, it's a numbersgame in many ways and just the
fact that you're in thatposition to have a chance to
(26:42):
attend one of those schools issomething worth celebrating.
And I think it means a lot forstudents when they're hearing
that in September, october,november and not just sitting
there hoping that they mighthear that from someone in March
or April.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:54):
It's like a let's celebrate.
You turned in some applications.
That's a big thing.
Let's go.
You know, have a pizza.
Sam Bernstein (27:01):
I don't know, that's a big thing, let's go you
know, have a pizza.
I don't know.
So enjoy the process.
Yeah, enjoy the process andheck your senior year of high
school for you, and you know, Ithink it's sometimes you get the
healthy cynic as the adultwhere it's, you kind of forget
of like, oh well, it's just onebuilding block on.
You know this greater life pathand career path, man, if you're
(27:21):
18 years, 17, 18 years old,that's all you know.
This greater life path andcareer path, man, if you're 18
years, 17, 18 years old, that'sall you know.
You know 17, 18 years, and it'snothing insignificant to be in
that position and to be goingthrough this process in the
first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:32):
Well, great advice, and thank you so much,
Sam, for coming on the show andfor sharing all of your insights
and for creating Glover to helpfill the gap.
Support our guidance counselors, support our parents, our
students, most of all.
Sam Bernstein (27:45):
Thank you so much for having me and really
excited to see where the productgoes in the next year.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (27:51):
If today's conversation sparked new ideas
or shifted how you viewpost-secondary planning.
I encourage you to exploretools and conversations that
center student voice and values.
When we meet students wherethey are, we open the door to
futures that truly are their own.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
(28:14):
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
(28:34):
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
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