November 6, 2025 • 23 mins
Imagine a school where grades reward collaboration, character, and genuine mastery—not just memorization and speed. In this episode, Dean of Academics Marc Aronson shares how his school, Cheshire Academy, rethought assessment through Grading What Matters, a framework focused on authentic learning, student agency, and mission-aligned outcomes.
We explore Final Demonstrations of Learning instead of exams, a Community of Learners model that grades students on contribution and engagement, and a fully open honors pathway where any student can earn honors inside their regular class.
Drawing from research by Grant Wiggins and Eric Mazur, Marc explains why performance assessments build deeper learning, why narrative feedback matters more than percentages, and how shifting to mission-based grading builds belonging, confidence, and durable skills.
What you’ll learn:
• How to design authentic assessments & FDOLs
• How to grade collaboration and community contribution
• Why narrative feedback drives real motivation
• Practical steps to begin grading what truly matters
If grades shape how students see themselves, let them measure what counts: mastery, growth, and contribution.
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- Listen to the full episode
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Sponsored by Dr. Gregg Hassler Jr., DMD
Trusted dental care for healthy smiles and stronger communities—building brighter futures daily.
If you have a story about what's working in your schools that you'd like to share, email me at lisa@drlisahassler.com or visit www.drlisahassler.com. Subscribe, tell a friend, and consider becoming a supporter by clicking the link: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2048018/support.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (00:19):
When a student at Cheshire Academy presents
their final project to a panelof teachers and peers instead of
taking a traditional exam,something powerful happens.
They're not just recitingmemorized facts, they're
defending their thinking,responding to challenges, and
demonstrating real mastery.
Research shows that 70% of whatstudents cram for traditional
(00:40):
tests is forgotten within weeks.
Meanwhile, schools across thecountry are discovering that
grades can measure growth,collaboration, and the skills
that students actually need forlife.
Mark Aronson is here to show ushow his school is making that
vision a reality.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research,
(01:10):
innovation, and resources.
I'm your host, Dr.
Lisa Hassler, here to enlightenand brighten the classrooms in
America through focusedconversation on important topics
in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we as teachers and
parents are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables?
And how can we duplicate it tomaximize student outcomes?
(01:31):
Are we measuring what reallymatters?
In the late 1990s, GrantWiggins challenged schools to
think differently.
He noticed that while the realworld runs on collaboration and
creative problem solving, wewere still grading students on
isolated tests and homework.
He championed performanceassessments, things like
projects and presentations thata mirror how people work and
(01:53):
learn in real life.
Others, like Linda DarlingHammond, found that these kinds
of assessments don't justmeasure skills like critical
thinking and teamwork.
They help students developthem.
And Susan Bruckhart discoveredthat when we give feedback
focused on learning goalsinstead of just points, students
shift from asking, what do Ineed for an A to how can I get
(02:14):
better?
But here's where it gets reallyinteresting.
Dr.
Eric Mazur, a Harvard professorwho joined us on a previous
episode, called traditionalassessment the silent pillar of
learning.
He's found that the way wetypically test students alone,
under stress and with noresources, actually undermines
(02:34):
learning.
His solution is to let studentsaccess information during
assessments, work in teams, anddemonstrate their learning in
ways that reflect the real worldthey're entering.
So the question becomes ifgrades shape how students learn
and how they see themselves aslearners, shouldn't we make sure
they're measuring the rightthings?
To tackle that question, we arejoined by Mark Aronson, Dean of
(02:58):
Academics at Cheshire Academyin Connecticut.
Mark and his team have beenrethinking grading from the
ground up through their GradingWhat Matters initiative.
They've replaced traditionalfinal exams with final
demonstrations of learning,opened honors pathways to all
students within regular classes,and created ways to recognize
not just what students know, buthow they contribute to their
(03:21):
learning community.
His work asks us to considerwhat if grades could shape
better learning instead of justmeasuring it.
Mark, welcome to the show.
Marc Aronson (03:30):
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:31):
So can you tell us a little bit about
yourself and when you realizedthat traditional grading systems
needed to change?
Marc Aronson (03:38):
I am the Dean of Academics at Cheshire Academy, a
small New England independentboarding and day school in
Connecticut.
And I've been here for 18years.
I started as an English teacherand a coach and a dorm parent.
And as happens when you stickaround places like this long
enough, you wear a lot ofdifferent hats.
But I've been in the academicoffice now for six or seven
(03:58):
years.
In that time, we have workedhard to flatten levels and
increase access for ourstudents.
And in doing that, wediscovered that it was really
important both for our missionstatement, which is about
helping students flourish aspurposeful global citizens, but
also for their sense of self andtheir sense of belonging, for
(04:21):
our classes to have course goalsattached to them that go beyond
the typical subject and contentand discipline specific goals.
You know, we've said if you'retaking an advanced math class,
for example, yeah, you're goingto be learning some advanced
math in that class, but it'salso a good idea for you to be
(04:41):
learning how to look at theworld differently than you
looked at it before that class.
Well, if that's going to be agoal of that course, or if we're
going to use a math course toincrease empathy as a goal of a
math class, we have to assessthat.
So all of the moves that we'vemade around assessment and
(05:01):
grading really trace back tothis idea of course goals that
transcend the subject or thediscipline or the content and
are more metacognitive or moremission-aligned.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:15):
So you talk about grading what matters.
Can you explain what that meansin practice and the need for
clear academic standards withvaluing things like
collaboration, engagement, andcommunity contribution?
Marc Aronson (05:29):
So when we say grade what matters, we're a
mission-driven school.
Our mission statement, inaddition to that, flourishing as
purposeful global citizenshipclause, talks about character,
critical thinking, andconfidence as core skills that
we want students to develop.
We have four core values as aschool, which are belonging,
(05:50):
engagement, collaboration, andgrowth.
And so if those are going to bethe values that drive us, then
our academic program should bedriving to assess students on
them.
We needed to ask biggerquestions about why are you
learning those things?
If we can ask of our students,bring something of yourself to
(06:11):
this.
And what we're going to measureyou on is beyond what you would
typically expect to be measuredon.
Aren't you then going to findthat you're actually growing
into your learning moreauthentically?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:22):
Can you give an example of that?
Marc Aronson (06:23):
We've done a couple of things that have
expanded our assessment model.
One is we moved away from areading week and an exam week at
the end of the year to thisconcept of final demonstrations
of learning.
And our students and facultynow refer to those as F-DALs
because final demonstrations oflearning is a bit of a mouthful.
These measure how much studentshave grown toward those course
(06:47):
goals that I was talking about.
And so that can take a lot ofdifferent forms.
It can take the form of anongoing collaborative project.
It can take the form of aservice trip and create a
reflection that we'll bring backand talk about.
And then beyond that, we'veasked all of our courses to
adopt a community of learnersmodel and a community of
learners rubric.
The idea there is if we aregoing to say that collaboration
(07:12):
is a thing we value, and ifwe're going to say that true
engagement, which comes frombelonging, is a thing that we
value, then part of students'grade should be the degree to
which they are in good faithcollaborating and engaging, not
just with their own learning,but with a responsibility for
the learning of their peers inthe class and with a sense of
(07:36):
responsibility for the learningof the whole group.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (07:39):
Then how does grading for responsibility for
others' learning look in theclassroom?
Marc Aronson (07:44):
The general way of using them is to say to
students, I'm going to belooking for you to be
contributing to our discussionsin class in ways that are
actively creating betterconditions for other students to
learn.
That's about are you echoingand amplifying what other people
say?
That's about are you askinggood questions of your
(08:07):
classmates?
That's about are you providingconstructive feedback or even
constructive pushback when aclassmate says something that
you're not 100% on board with orthat you don't fully agree with
in a way that sort of advancesthe discussion and advances
everyone else's learning?
I'm very fond of saying thatour students aren't just future
(08:28):
people.
They're people now.
They have identities thatthey're honing and shaping.
They have worldviews that we'rehopefully helping become more
flexible and dynamic andgrounded in values, but they
have worldviews.
What's their responsibility tobring that into a classroom
setting so that other studentscan benefit from their presence,
from their authentic self, fromtheir experiences?
(08:51):
Then we do need to say, okay,now students, you have to bring
something to the table thathelps everybody else.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:58):
And this is a per class.
So each class has its own wayof assessing their community of
learners.
Yep.
Marc Aronson (09:05):
The critical thing is to provide students feedback
on it.
Right.
So in my classes, every time acommunity of learners' grade
goes up, I send a student anofficial note through our LMS
explaining why they are doingbetter at it than they were
before.
Anytime a community of learnersgrade goes down, that's for me
an opportunity to have aconversation with a student
(09:26):
about, hey, I'm going to toggleyour community of learners'
grade down a little bit.
Here's the reasons why.
Here's what you can do to bringit back up to where you and I
think it ought to be.
And then I follow that up inwriting as well.
So the narrative feedback isreally important.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:41):
So have you found that the students are
responding well to this?
Do they like it?
Marc Aronson (09:46):
Yeah.
What I have really found isthat students who are looking to
get that A pretty quicklyrecognize the first time that
their community of learnersgrade gets entered or the first
time that it drops a little bit,and I explained to them why.
It doesn't take long for theirsort of good faith engagement
with their classmates to turnaround.
(10:06):
So it is, it is motivating inthat way.
And our hope is that it takesthis external, extrinsic,
stressful motivation of gradesand flips that to drawing
something more intrinsic andinternal out of students the
more that they're collaboratingwith each other.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:22):
And then the replacement of final exams to
the final demonstrations oflearning.
What kind of impacts have youseen with that replacement?
Marc Aronson (10:30):
It's led to much more experiential learning.
It's led to much more justauthentic assessment that
marries the stuff we wantstudents to learn with things
that they are bringing ofthemselves.
And it really has forced us tosort of go back to the studs
with what are the purposes ofour courses and design backwards
(10:53):
from those purposes.
You know, is it the case thatover the course of a Spanish
intermediate level languagecourse, there are specific
Spanish language targets that wewant our students to achieve,
sure.
But if their F-DAL in Spanishis going to be some sort of
collaborative experientialproject that requires them to
(11:15):
use the facility in Spanishthey've they've gained, that's
going to be a much richer,valuable experience that A is
going to have much more durablelearning.
But it's it's also, I reallythink this matters.
It's going to provide thestudents with a more positive
vibe of high school.
So often, high school is athing that just happens to
students.
It's a series of hoops theyhave to jump through where they
(11:37):
have no say in how high they areor why they are or when they
show up.
And we want them to have moreagency in it and more ownership
of it because we don't want itto feel transactionally like
it's just an investment in somefuture thing.
An overfocus on the futuretakes away from not just sort of
in a woo-woo way being in thepresent, but it really takes
(11:57):
away from the fact that ourstudents are people now and they
should be having a goodlearning experience now.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:04):
Is there one that you'd like to share?
Marc Aronson (12:07):
So our recently retired head of our fine and
performing arts department ran aproject with our art major
class where they had initiatedessentially a pen pal
partnership with refugeefamilies in sub-Saharan Africa.
And they wound up doingportraits of the children of
those families and shipped tothem.
(12:29):
And the letters we would getback and sort of this ongoing
collaboration was so rich, butalso it felt like we were doing
something around our mission ofbeing purposeful global
citizens.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:41):
So traditional honors tracks often separate
students from the start, butyou've opened honors
opportunities to everyone byembedding it within their
regular classes.
How would that work?
Marc Aronson (12:51):
We wanted to change how we did honors.
We decided, well, what ifinstead students could earn
honors on their grade in a givenclass?
So in my class, for example, Imight get an A minus, and you
might get an A minus H becauseyou've achieved enough of the
(13:12):
achievements that I set in thesyllabus at the beginning that
are required to earn the honordesignation on your grade in the
class.
So you're not in an honorsection of it, but you've earned
honors on your grade.
And the overall achievementlearning experience of all the
students in the class will goup, especially for students who
(13:33):
try for it but don't quite earnit.
Right.
Because they will wind uphaving done more than they would
have otherwise done had it notbeen an option anyway.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:44):
Yeah.
And that intrinsic motivation,sometimes, you know, you just
want to see like, I want to seeif I can get it too.
Marc Aronson (13:50):
Yeah, we're very excited about it.
I I think it's really importantto reward students who are
ready for and capable of anddemonstrate that they can go
above and beyond what thestandard even for an A is.
But I think it's equallyimportant to say this is
something anybody can try for.
And yeah, it should be hard.
(14:10):
And yeah, most people won't getit, but it's not something
exclusive in that you you onlyget this thing that looks good
on your transcript if someoneahead of time said you're worthy
of that.
That doesn't feel authentic tome.
It feels much more authentic tosay, here's what you've done.
That means you have earned iton this thing, not you've earned
(14:34):
placement in something later.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:36):
So I think it's wonderful because then it
just tells the student that thisis ready for you whenever and
if you want it.
So it gives them that ownershipand I like that agency as well.
You're talking about increasingstudent agency, and that really
does put it in their pocket.
What kind of challenges did youface when you were implementing
these reforms?
And how did you bring yourfaculty, your students, and your
(14:58):
parents on board?
Marc Aronson (15:00):
So, students and families, anytime there's a
change, there's questions.
But I was actually remarkablysurprised as we rolled out the
final demonstrations oflearning, as we emphasized these
non-content discipline specificaligned course goals more and
more as they started to seecommunity of learners pop up and
(15:20):
now become universal.
I was pleasantly surprised athow little we heard from anybody
about it.
And I think it's because weweren't doing anything that
didn't feel authentically us.
We've always been a school thathas valued the kinds of things
I'm talking about.
There were just some timeswhere we lacked formal
structures for them or where welacked a common language around
(15:41):
them.
And so, really, all we've doneis create formal structures for
and common language around someof the things that we always had
at sort of the essence of thefeel of the place.
In terms of faculty, the mainissue has been time.
And so it was a few years agothat we decided we wouldn't make
(16:02):
any changes to the courses inour curriculum guide without
there being an 18-month lag onit.
So now we update our curriculumguide in May and June of a
year, not for that coming fall,but for a whole year out so that
faculty have a whole year and asummer to plan and build and
design.
And so we followed that samemodel with the honors
(16:24):
designations specifically,knowing that asking every
faculty member to go into theirsyllabi, to look at their course
goals, to come up with apathway for a student to earn an
honors designation in the classthat was clear, articulable,
but hard.
So time has been the realobstacle.
And, you know, that amount oftime has led to the opportunity
to have really goodconversations to say to faculty
(16:48):
members, here are some of thebenefits that will accrue to you
in your work from this, youknow, those practical problems
that get solved by doing thingslike this.
But it has also allowed fordepartments to have much more
time to meet and discuss andhammer out how they want to go
about things.
So there was really good giveand take about how we wanted to
do it.
We we had, I think, you know,there was a really healthy
(17:08):
debate about whether thereshould be a grade cutoff for
earning honors, for example.
So should it be possible to geta C in the class but earn
honors?
Right.
And I didn't think that shouldbe possible.
And in the end, we landed onno, there should be some cutoff.
So we've said you can't get itif your grade in the class is
below a B.
(17:29):
And that opened up a reallygood conversation about should
trying for honors but notearning it affect your grade in
the class?
Right.
And so there were some teacherswho thought, no, if you try a
harder problem and don't do wellon it, that might hurt your
grade on that assessment.
And then there were those of uswho said, well, no, this is
(17:49):
meant to be demonstrating aboveand beyond.
They should be already earningthe grade they're getting.
The this, the rest of it shouldjust be a binary.
Are they doing what they needto do to earn honors or not?
And so we were able to use that18 months to hammer out our
answers to all those questions.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:05):
I'm just thinking from a leadership
perspective, how flexible andrespectful you're being of your
teachers' time by consideringtheir concerns.
I think that that had to beappreciated by your staff.
Marc Aronson (18:18):
I think there's a valid point to be made of we're
doing our jobs really well.
Can we not be allowed to for awhile just do our jobs really
well without constantly addingmore work?
So I I'm trying, we areinstitutionally trying to
provide them with the time theyneed to do their work.
But I wouldn't want to sit herewith rose-colored glasses and
(18:39):
say that everybody feels likethey have all the time they need
to do everything we're askingthem to do.
They definitely don't feel thatway.
And we need to remember that,right?
Change management does requiremanaging how something feels
when you're doing it.
And I I do think we asked a lotof our faculty, and I'm I'm
appreciative of them for thework that they put in.
(19:00):
I know it was a heavy lift.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:02):
If a teacher wanted to start to implement
some of these changes in theirown classroom, where do you
think that they would begin?
What would be a good place tostart?
Marc Aronson (19:11):
I think the place to begin is to think about what
are the actual goals of yourcourse that have nothing to do
with or that are onlythematically or tangentially
related to the content anddiscipline-specific skills of
your course, right?
What's the metacognitive valueof the work you're asking
(19:31):
students to do?
What's the community-basedvalue of the work you're asking
students to do?
If you work in a school that ismission-driven, how does the
course you're teaching helpachieve the nouns and verbs in
the school's mission statement?
If you start there, then you'regonna plan backwards.
All right, if my course isdoing those things, how am I
(19:55):
actively gonna assess them?
And if I'm actively gonnaassess them, how am I gonna
actively incorporate teachingand learning around them in my
classes?
I think that's the startingpoint.
It really does go back to thatidea of course goals that are
more transformational than theyare transactional.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:13):
Yeah, that that actually is a great way to
think about it because thenyou're living your mission,
which makes you more of acommunity of learners within
that institution.
Marc Aronson (20:23):
And on a practical level, I think another thing I
would encourage folks to do isquestion some of the basic
assumptions about grading thatwe've internalized.
To me, the biggest one is thepercentage-based scale.
And there's tons of reading andwriting and thinking to be
consumed about this.
You know, everything from the,well, we have 59 versions of
(20:44):
failing and 40 versions ofpassing kind of thing.
But just also the idea of whatif you gave students qualitative
descriptors for the kind ofwork you wanted to see for them
to earn the grade you want?
And what are the odds that indoing that, you're actually
gonna land on there being adifference between an 87 and an
88?
(21:04):
Or what are the odds that indoing that, you're gonna land on
the idea that, well, if theygot eight of the 10 things that
I wanted them to get done, or ifthey did it to eight tenths of
the level of quality that Iwanted them to get, that that
means they get a B minus.
That that's that's extremelyarbitrary.
And it's it's a box that onceyou're out of it, feels so
(21:27):
liberating as a teacher.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:28):
Thank you so much for sharing all of your
concrete examples and yourinsights.
Your work proves that gradesdon't just have to measure
student outcomes, they activelyshape how students see
themselves as learners andcommunity members.
And you've given us a beautifulroadmap for making assessment
both meaningful and rigorous.
Marc Aronson (21:48):
Thank you.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:48):
To learn more about Cheshire Academy, you can
go to their website atCheshiracademy.org.
That's C H E S H I R E andreach out to Dean Mark Aronson.
Now, here's something to try.
The next time your child showsyou a grade, ask them about
their growth and how theycontributed to their classmates'
learning.
Sometimes the smallest shiftscreate the biggest changes in
(22:09):
how we think about learning.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at Lisa at dr
lisaarhastler.com or visit mywebsite at
www.drlisaarhastler.com and sendme a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
(22:30):
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
When a student at Cheshire Academy presents
their final project to a panelof teachers and peers instead of
taking a traditional exam,something powerful happens.
They're not just recitingmemorized facts, they're
defending their thinking,responding to challenges, and
demonstrating real mastery.
Research shows that 70% of whatstudents cram for traditional
(00:40):
tests is forgotten within weeks.
Meanwhile, schools across thecountry are discovering that
grades can measure growth,collaboration, and the skills
that students actually need forlife.
Mark Aronson is here to show ushow his school is making that
vision a reality.
Welcome to the brighter side ofeducation, research,
(01:10):
innovation, and resources.
I'm your host, Dr.
Lisa Hassler, here to enlightenand brighten the classrooms in
America through focusedconversation on important topics
in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we as teachers and
parents are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables?
And how can we duplicate it tomaximize student outcomes?
(01:31):
Are we measuring what reallymatters?
In the late 1990s, GrantWiggins challenged schools to
think differently.
He noticed that while the realworld runs on collaboration and
creative problem solving, wewere still grading students on
isolated tests and homework.
He championed performanceassessments, things like
projects and presentations thata mirror how people work and
(01:53):
learn in real life.
Others, like Linda DarlingHammond, found that these kinds
of assessments don't justmeasure skills like critical
thinking and teamwork.
They help students developthem.
And Susan Bruckhart discoveredthat when we give feedback
focused on learning goalsinstead of just points, students
shift from asking, what do Ineed for an A to how can I get
(02:14):
better?
But here's where it gets reallyinteresting.
Dr.
Eric Mazur, a Harvard professorwho joined us on a previous
episode, called traditionalassessment the silent pillar of
learning.
He's found that the way wetypically test students alone,
under stress and with noresources, actually undermines
(02:34):
learning.
His solution is to let studentsaccess information during
assessments, work in teams, anddemonstrate their learning in
ways that reflect the real worldthey're entering.
So the question becomes ifgrades shape how students learn
and how they see themselves aslearners, shouldn't we make sure
they're measuring the rightthings?
To tackle that question, we arejoined by Mark Aronson, Dean of
(02:58):
Academics at Cheshire Academyin Connecticut.
Mark and his team have beenrethinking grading from the
ground up through their GradingWhat Matters initiative.
They've replaced traditionalfinal exams with final
demonstrations of learning,opened honors pathways to all
students within regular classes,and created ways to recognize
not just what students know, buthow they contribute to their
(03:21):
learning community.
His work asks us to considerwhat if grades could shape
better learning instead of justmeasuring it.
Mark, welcome to the show.
Marc Aronson (03:30):
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (03:31):
So can you tell us a little bit about
yourself and when you realizedthat traditional grading systems
needed to change?
Marc Aronson (03:38):
I am the Dean of Academics at Cheshire Academy, a
small New England independentboarding and day school in
Connecticut.
And I've been here for 18years.
I started as an English teacherand a coach and a dorm parent.
And as happens when you stickaround places like this long
enough, you wear a lot ofdifferent hats.
But I've been in the academicoffice now for six or seven
(03:58):
years.
In that time, we have workedhard to flatten levels and
increase access for ourstudents.
And in doing that, wediscovered that it was really
important both for our missionstatement, which is about
helping students flourish aspurposeful global citizens, but
also for their sense of self andtheir sense of belonging, for
(04:21):
our classes to have course goalsattached to them that go beyond
the typical subject and contentand discipline specific goals.
You know, we've said if you'retaking an advanced math class,
for example, yeah, you're goingto be learning some advanced
math in that class, but it'salso a good idea for you to be
(04:41):
learning how to look at theworld differently than you
looked at it before that class.
Well, if that's going to be agoal of that course, or if we're
going to use a math course toincrease empathy as a goal of a
math class, we have to assessthat.
So all of the moves that we'vemade around assessment and
(05:01):
grading really trace back tothis idea of course goals that
transcend the subject or thediscipline or the content and
are more metacognitive or moremission-aligned.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:15):
So you talk about grading what matters.
Can you explain what that meansin practice and the need for
clear academic standards withvaluing things like
collaboration, engagement, andcommunity contribution?
Marc Aronson (05:29):
So when we say grade what matters, we're a
mission-driven school.
Our mission statement, inaddition to that, flourishing as
purposeful global citizenshipclause, talks about character,
critical thinking, andconfidence as core skills that
we want students to develop.
We have four core values as aschool, which are belonging,
(05:50):
engagement, collaboration, andgrowth.
And so if those are going to bethe values that drive us, then
our academic program should bedriving to assess students on
them.
We needed to ask biggerquestions about why are you
learning those things?
If we can ask of our students,bring something of yourself to
(06:11):
this.
And what we're going to measureyou on is beyond what you would
typically expect to be measuredon.
Aren't you then going to findthat you're actually growing
into your learning moreauthentically?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:22):
Can you give an example of that?
Marc Aronson (06:23):
We've done a couple of things that have
expanded our assessment model.
One is we moved away from areading week and an exam week at
the end of the year to thisconcept of final demonstrations
of learning.
And our students and facultynow refer to those as F-DALs
because final demonstrations oflearning is a bit of a mouthful.
These measure how much studentshave grown toward those course
(06:47):
goals that I was talking about.
And so that can take a lot ofdifferent forms.
It can take the form of anongoing collaborative project.
It can take the form of aservice trip and create a
reflection that we'll bring backand talk about.
And then beyond that, we'veasked all of our courses to
adopt a community of learnersmodel and a community of
learners rubric.
The idea there is if we aregoing to say that collaboration
(07:12):
is a thing we value, and ifwe're going to say that true
engagement, which comes frombelonging, is a thing that we
value, then part of students'grade should be the degree to
which they are in good faithcollaborating and engaging, not
just with their own learning,but with a responsibility for
the learning of their peers inthe class and with a sense of
(07:36):
responsibility for the learningof the whole group.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (07:39):
Then how does grading for responsibility for
others' learning look in theclassroom?
Marc Aronson (07:44):
The general way of using them is to say to
students, I'm going to belooking for you to be
contributing to our discussionsin class in ways that are
actively creating betterconditions for other students to
learn.
That's about are you echoingand amplifying what other people
say?
That's about are you askinggood questions of your
(08:07):
classmates?
That's about are you providingconstructive feedback or even
constructive pushback when aclassmate says something that
you're not 100% on board with orthat you don't fully agree with
in a way that sort of advancesthe discussion and advances
everyone else's learning?
I'm very fond of saying thatour students aren't just future
(08:28):
people.
They're people now.
They have identities thatthey're honing and shaping.
They have worldviews that we'rehopefully helping become more
flexible and dynamic andgrounded in values, but they
have worldviews.
What's their responsibility tobring that into a classroom
setting so that other studentscan benefit from their presence,
from their authentic self, fromtheir experiences?
(08:51):
Then we do need to say, okay,now students, you have to bring
something to the table thathelps everybody else.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:58):
And this is a per class.
So each class has its own wayof assessing their community of
learners.
Yep.
Marc Aronson (09:05):
The critical thing is to provide students feedback
on it.
Right.
So in my classes, every time acommunity of learners' grade
goes up, I send a student anofficial note through our LMS
explaining why they are doingbetter at it than they were
before.
Anytime a community of learnersgrade goes down, that's for me
an opportunity to have aconversation with a student
(09:26):
about, hey, I'm going to toggleyour community of learners'
grade down a little bit.
Here's the reasons why.
Here's what you can do to bringit back up to where you and I
think it ought to be.
And then I follow that up inwriting as well.
So the narrative feedback isreally important.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (09:41):
So have you found that the students are
responding well to this?
Do they like it?
Marc Aronson (09:46):
Yeah.
What I have really found isthat students who are looking to
get that A pretty quicklyrecognize the first time that
their community of learnersgrade gets entered or the first
time that it drops a little bit,and I explained to them why.
It doesn't take long for theirsort of good faith engagement
with their classmates to turnaround.
(10:06):
So it is, it is motivating inthat way.
And our hope is that it takesthis external, extrinsic,
stressful motivation of gradesand flips that to drawing
something more intrinsic andinternal out of students the
more that they're collaboratingwith each other.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:22):
And then the replacement of final exams to
the final demonstrations oflearning.
What kind of impacts have youseen with that replacement?
Marc Aronson (10:30):
It's led to much more experiential learning.
It's led to much more justauthentic assessment that
marries the stuff we wantstudents to learn with things
that they are bringing ofthemselves.
And it really has forced us tosort of go back to the studs
with what are the purposes ofour courses and design backwards
(10:53):
from those purposes.
You know, is it the case thatover the course of a Spanish
intermediate level languagecourse, there are specific
Spanish language targets that wewant our students to achieve,
sure.
But if their F-DAL in Spanishis going to be some sort of
collaborative experientialproject that requires them to
(11:15):
use the facility in Spanishthey've they've gained, that's
going to be a much richer,valuable experience that A is
going to have much more durablelearning.
But it's it's also, I reallythink this matters.
It's going to provide thestudents with a more positive
vibe of high school.
So often, high school is athing that just happens to
students.
It's a series of hoops theyhave to jump through where they
(11:37):
have no say in how high they areor why they are or when they
show up.
And we want them to have moreagency in it and more ownership
of it because we don't want itto feel transactionally like
it's just an investment in somefuture thing.
An overfocus on the futuretakes away from not just sort of
in a woo-woo way being in thepresent, but it really takes
(11:57):
away from the fact that ourstudents are people now and they
should be having a goodlearning experience now.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:04):
Is there one that you'd like to share?
Marc Aronson (12:07):
So our recently retired head of our fine and
performing arts department ran aproject with our art major
class where they had initiatedessentially a pen pal
partnership with refugeefamilies in sub-Saharan Africa.
And they wound up doingportraits of the children of
those families and shipped tothem.
(12:29):
And the letters we would getback and sort of this ongoing
collaboration was so rich, butalso it felt like we were doing
something around our mission ofbeing purposeful global
citizens.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:41):
So traditional honors tracks often separate
students from the start, butyou've opened honors
opportunities to everyone byembedding it within their
regular classes.
How would that work?
Marc Aronson (12:51):
We wanted to change how we did honors.
We decided, well, what ifinstead students could earn
honors on their grade in a givenclass?
So in my class, for example, Imight get an A minus, and you
might get an A minus H becauseyou've achieved enough of the
(13:12):
achievements that I set in thesyllabus at the beginning that
are required to earn the honordesignation on your grade in the
class.
So you're not in an honorsection of it, but you've earned
honors on your grade.
And the overall achievementlearning experience of all the
students in the class will goup, especially for students who
(13:33):
try for it but don't quite earnit.
Right.
Because they will wind uphaving done more than they would
have otherwise done had it notbeen an option anyway.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:44):
Yeah.
And that intrinsic motivation,sometimes, you know, you just
want to see like, I want to seeif I can get it too.
Marc Aronson (13:50):
Yeah, we're very excited about it.
I I think it's really importantto reward students who are
ready for and capable of anddemonstrate that they can go
above and beyond what thestandard even for an A is.
But I think it's equallyimportant to say this is
something anybody can try for.
And yeah, it should be hard.
(14:10):
And yeah, most people won't getit, but it's not something
exclusive in that you you onlyget this thing that looks good
on your transcript if someoneahead of time said you're worthy
of that.
That doesn't feel authentic tome.
It feels much more authentic tosay, here's what you've done.
That means you have earned iton this thing, not you've earned
(14:34):
placement in something later.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:36):
So I think it's wonderful because then it
just tells the student that thisis ready for you whenever and
if you want it.
So it gives them that ownershipand I like that agency as well.
You're talking about increasingstudent agency, and that really
does put it in their pocket.
What kind of challenges did youface when you were implementing
these reforms?
And how did you bring yourfaculty, your students, and your
(14:58):
parents on board?
Marc Aronson (15:00):
So, students and families, anytime there's a
change, there's questions.
But I was actually remarkablysurprised as we rolled out the
final demonstrations oflearning, as we emphasized these
non-content discipline specificaligned course goals more and
more as they started to seecommunity of learners pop up and
(15:20):
now become universal.
I was pleasantly surprised athow little we heard from anybody
about it.
And I think it's because weweren't doing anything that
didn't feel authentically us.
We've always been a school thathas valued the kinds of things
I'm talking about.
There were just some timeswhere we lacked formal
structures for them or where welacked a common language around
(15:41):
them.
And so, really, all we've doneis create formal structures for
and common language around someof the things that we always had
at sort of the essence of thefeel of the place.
In terms of faculty, the mainissue has been time.
And so it was a few years agothat we decided we wouldn't make
(16:02):
any changes to the courses inour curriculum guide without
there being an 18-month lag onit.
So now we update our curriculumguide in May and June of a
year, not for that coming fall,but for a whole year out so that
faculty have a whole year and asummer to plan and build and
design.
And so we followed that samemodel with the honors
(16:24):
designations specifically,knowing that asking every
faculty member to go into theirsyllabi, to look at their course
goals, to come up with apathway for a student to earn an
honors designation in the classthat was clear, articulable,
but hard.
So time has been the realobstacle.
And, you know, that amount oftime has led to the opportunity
to have really goodconversations to say to faculty
(16:48):
members, here are some of thebenefits that will accrue to you
in your work from this, youknow, those practical problems
that get solved by doing thingslike this.
But it has also allowed fordepartments to have much more
time to meet and discuss andhammer out how they want to go
about things.
So there was really good giveand take about how we wanted to
do it.
We we had, I think, you know,there was a really healthy
(17:08):
debate about whether thereshould be a grade cutoff for
earning honors, for example.
So should it be possible to geta C in the class but earn
honors?
Right.
And I didn't think that shouldbe possible.
And in the end, we landed onno, there should be some cutoff.
So we've said you can't get itif your grade in the class is
below a B.
(17:29):
And that opened up a reallygood conversation about should
trying for honors but notearning it affect your grade in
the class?
Right.
And so there were some teacherswho thought, no, if you try a
harder problem and don't do wellon it, that might hurt your
grade on that assessment.
And then there were those of uswho said, well, no, this is
(17:49):
meant to be demonstrating aboveand beyond.
They should be already earningthe grade they're getting.
The this, the rest of it shouldjust be a binary.
Are they doing what they needto do to earn honors or not?
And so we were able to use that18 months to hammer out our
answers to all those questions.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:05):
I'm just thinking from a leadership
perspective, how flexible andrespectful you're being of your
teachers' time by consideringtheir concerns.
I think that that had to beappreciated by your staff.
Marc Aronson (18:18):
I think there's a valid point to be made of we're
doing our jobs really well.
Can we not be allowed to for awhile just do our jobs really
well without constantly addingmore work?
So I I'm trying, we areinstitutionally trying to
provide them with the time theyneed to do their work.
But I wouldn't want to sit herewith rose-colored glasses and
(18:39):
say that everybody feels likethey have all the time they need
to do everything we're askingthem to do.
They definitely don't feel thatway.
And we need to remember that,right?
Change management does requiremanaging how something feels
when you're doing it.
And I I do think we asked a lotof our faculty, and I'm I'm
appreciative of them for thework that they put in.
(19:00):
I know it was a heavy lift.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:02):
If a teacher wanted to start to implement
some of these changes in theirown classroom, where do you
think that they would begin?
What would be a good place tostart?
Marc Aronson (19:11):
I think the place to begin is to think about what
are the actual goals of yourcourse that have nothing to do
with or that are onlythematically or tangentially
related to the content anddiscipline-specific skills of
your course, right?
What's the metacognitive valueof the work you're asking
(19:31):
students to do?
What's the community-basedvalue of the work you're asking
students to do?
If you work in a school that ismission-driven, how does the
course you're teaching helpachieve the nouns and verbs in
the school's mission statement?
If you start there, then you'regonna plan backwards.
All right, if my course isdoing those things, how am I
(19:55):
actively gonna assess them?
And if I'm actively gonnaassess them, how am I gonna
actively incorporate teachingand learning around them in my
classes?
I think that's the startingpoint.
It really does go back to thatidea of course goals that are
more transformational than theyare transactional.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (20:13):
Yeah, that that actually is a great way to
think about it because thenyou're living your mission,
which makes you more of acommunity of learners within
that institution.
Marc Aronson (20:23):
And on a practical level, I think another thing I
would encourage folks to do isquestion some of the basic
assumptions about grading thatwe've internalized.
To me, the biggest one is thepercentage-based scale.
And there's tons of reading andwriting and thinking to be
consumed about this.
You know, everything from the,well, we have 59 versions of
(20:44):
failing and 40 versions ofpassing kind of thing.
But just also the idea of whatif you gave students qualitative
descriptors for the kind ofwork you wanted to see for them
to earn the grade you want?
And what are the odds that indoing that, you're actually
gonna land on there being adifference between an 87 and an
88?
(21:04):
Or what are the odds that indoing that, you're gonna land on
the idea that, well, if theygot eight of the 10 things that
I wanted them to get done, or ifthey did it to eight tenths of
the level of quality that Iwanted them to get, that that
means they get a B minus.
That that's that's extremelyarbitrary.
And it's it's a box that onceyou're out of it, feels so
(21:27):
liberating as a teacher.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:28):
Thank you so much for sharing all of your
concrete examples and yourinsights.
Your work proves that gradesdon't just have to measure
student outcomes, they activelyshape how students see
themselves as learners andcommunity members.
And you've given us a beautifulroadmap for making assessment
both meaningful and rigorous.
Marc Aronson (21:48):
Thank you.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:48):
To learn more about Cheshire Academy, you can
go to their website atCheshiracademy.org.
That's C H E S H I R E andreach out to Dean Mark Aronson.
Now, here's something to try.
The next time your child showsyou a grade, ask them about
their growth and how theycontributed to their classmates'
learning.
Sometimes the smallest shiftscreate the biggest changes in
(22:09):
how we think about learning.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at Lisa at dr
lisaarhastler.com or visit mywebsite at
www.drlisaarhastler.com and sendme a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
(22:30):
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
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