November 22, 2023 • 33 mins
Jillian’s Sibling Loss Story: Unresolved Issues, Family Conflict, and the Loss of a Sibling to Suicide
In this episode, of The Broken Pack: Stories of Adult Sibling Loss, surviving sibling Jillian Prouse, a mother and a teacher, shared her personal journey of grief and loss, highlighting the weight of unspoken words, the impact of suicide, and the need for support. Jillian discusses losing her brother, Brandon to suicide less than a year ago. Her heartbreak and grief have been complicated by challenging family situations and her own pregnancy loss.
- Jillian emphasizes the importance of empathy, understanding, and seeking help for those navigating this difficult experience of sibling loss.
- She shares how her grief for Brandon has been complicated and delayed due to multiple other primary and secondary losses as well as difficult circumstances that occurred prior to his death.
- Jillian’s experience with suicide loss and sibling loss highlights the unique challenges of grieving the loss of a sibling to suicide including a gamut of emotional experiences.
Content Warning: Information presented in this episode may be upsetting to some people. It contains talk of suicide.
If you are in the US and would like support for yourself or someone else with substance use, suicidal thoughts, or other topics discussed in this episode, please call SAMHSA’s National Helpline at 1-800-662-HELP (4357) or Text your 5-digit ZIP Code to 435748 (HELP4U) or call a warmline. For more immediate crisis call 911, 988, or go to the nearest emergency room.
If you believe you are witnessing an overdose, call 911 or your country’s emergency number immediately even if you are administering Narcan.
In the USA an updated directory of warmlines by state can be found at https://warmline.org/warmdir.html
A warmline directory for trained peer supports in over 20 countries can be found at https://www.supportiv.com/tools/international-resources-crisis-and-warmlines (some of these may be hotlines).
If you would like more information or to share your own adult sibling loss story, please contact me, Dr. Angela Dean, at contact@thebrokenpack.com or go to our website, thebrokenpack.com.
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Thank you!
Angela M. Dean, PsyD, FT
Credits:
The Broken Pack™ Podcast is produced by 27 Elephants Media
"If Tomorrow Starts Without Me" © ℗ 2023, 2024
Written by Joe Mylward and Brian Dean
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Dean (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the Broken Pack, a podcast
focused on giving adultsurvivors of sibling loss, a
platform to share their storiesand to be heard.
Something that many sibling losssurvivors state that they never
have had.
Sibling Loss is Misunderstood™.
The Broken Pack exists to changethat and to support survivors.
(00:32):
I'm your host, Dr.
Angela Dean.
In today's episode, Jillian andI discuss losing her brother,
Brandon, to suicide, somechallenging family dynamics, the
Canadian healthcare system, andhow difficult it has been to
grieve her brother.
she's very early in grief.
We recorded this in September of2023.
(00:55):
She lost her brother less than ayear ago.
Her heartbreak is palpable asmany of us have experienced.
Take a listen.
Content warning.
Information presented in thisepisode may be triggering to
some people.
(01:15):
It contains talk of suicide.
Welcome to the show, Jillian, Iwas wondering what you wanted
our listeners to know about you.
Jillian Prouse (01:22):
My name is Jillian.
I am a mom of a two and a halfyear old and a teacher.
and I lost my only sibling,Brandon, this year.
Dr. Dean (01:32):
Thank you.
Before we talk about losing him,I was wondering what Brandon was
like and what you want us toknow about him.
Jillian Prouse (01:38):
Brandon was very funny.
Very funny.
but also very introverted.
So you had to really know him toget that side of him.
He was very smart.
very responsible.
He also had this side of himthat I share where you just
decide for lack of a betterterm, you say fuck it and you
just grab onto life and do thereally fun things and the really
(02:00):
crazy things and the really wildthings.
He lived like that in hisyounger years and so did I.
He was a dad, two small kids,one stepchild.
It's all he ever wanted, was afamily.
He just had the biggest heartfor the people in his life.
Dr. Dean (02:14):
Sounds like a good guy Yeah.
I can see that this is reallyhard for you to talk about him.
What was your relationship likewith him?
Jillian Prouse (02:22):
We had a good relationship, when we were kids,
very typical.
There wasn't too much siblingrivalry or anything like that,
we were four years apart so wehad our own things going on but
also still each other.
Then I was out of the house atpost secondary when he started
high school so we had that gap.
And then in our adult years weboth ended up settling in the
same town that my parents hadmoved to.
(02:45):
So we could all be close so thatwhen we eventually had families
we could raise our kids close toour parents and my house is
actually just down the streetfrom his house.
We were best friends like fairlyclose up until he met his wife
who was his ex wife at the timeof his death.
Dr. Dean (03:07):
That's hard.
So they were already divorced orin the process of it.
Jillian Prouse (03:10):
They had separated and then, just prior
to his passing, there was someclaims of reconciliation, but it
was all very dark and not theroute.
Dr. Dean (03:23):
Yeah.
Not the route you wanted forhim.
Jillian Prouse (03:25):
No.
Dr. Dean (03:27):
What would you like to share about that loss and losing
him?
Jillian Prouse (03:31):
I think the shock of it, He died by suicide.
So that's an added element.
He was hospitalized in Novemberfor ideation and then it seems.
Like he was getting the help heneeded, the therapy he needed.
He was off work on a leave tojust focus on his mental health.
He was separated from her.
(03:53):
he had reached out to me andjust said, I know I owe you an
apology and it'll come, but Ijust really need you right now.
And I said, of course, likeanything you need through this
time.
Shane and I, Shane is myhusband, we are absolutely here.
My parents were helping him takecare of the kids because she
just left the kids there.
(04:14):
and then I had him over forChristmas and that was the last
time that I saw him alive.
It was my parents and him andall of our kids and...
And he let it slip when we werehaving a private conversation
that, oh, they were working onthings and I had just said to
him, you know that this isn'tgoing to end well, and you know
(04:37):
that if she's in your life inthis way, I can't be around.
And that was the last kind ofconversation we had.
Dr. Dean (04:48):
Sounds like it was a heavy conversation for you.
Jillian Prouse (04:51):
Yeah.
Because prior to that, at thebeginning of December, I had
accompanied him to pick up hiskids from her home in a
different city.
She was staying with her mom.
He stopped on the way and gotout of the car and said, I need
to throw my wedding rings intothe fields and it's done.
And I just remember breathing ahuge sigh of relief that, we
(05:13):
were all gonna get him back.
the Brandon that we all knew,that actually enjoyed living,
where everything wasn't astruggle.
I was so hopeful for him.
Dr. Dean (05:22):
Did you see any glimpse of that in that month?
Jillian Prouse (05:24):
I think him starting therapy, he seemed to
be really self reflective, andhe seemed to be taking it very
seriously.
He seemed to be taking it in.
I know he was reaching out forsome other resources.
He talked a lot about shadowwork.
And I think he was finallystarting to address some of the
things that were maybe the causeof some of the behavior and
(05:45):
problems to do with his mentalhealth.
He was on the right track.
Dr. Dean (05:50):
For frame of reference, because you're in
Canada, what is the mentalhealth system like there,
meaning how accessible is it toget the help you need.
Jillian Prouse (05:59):
I would say...
It's not overly accessible or,helpful.
After he was hospitalized forideation, they basically sent
him on his way and said apsychiatrist would be in touch.
And my mom got involved becausedays were starting to go by and
nobody was getting in touch.
And they said, Oh, becausethere's a very long wait list.
(06:19):
So because of public healthcare,which is incredible in many
ways, the wait lists are verylong.
And dealing with something likethis, time is very important.
Dr. Dean (06:30):
So is mental health care covered under your national
health care?
Jillian Prouse (06:35):
No, so his hospital stay was covered, and
then his psychiatry would havebeen covered, but we didn't know
when he was going to get in.
My parents stepped in and gothim a therapist that his job had
some private coverage through.
Dr. Dean (06:50):
Okay.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Cause I know I talked to someonein the UK and their system's
similar.
Here everything obviously isprivate, or mostly.
So as you watched him struggle,what was happening with your
relationship then?
You set a pretty firm boundary.
It sounds like.
Jillian Prouse (07:07):
Yeah, Prior to that conversation, because he
only died.
a little bit more than a weekafter that conversation, I just
would text him and check in onhim, and just say we're here,
but I definitely carry a lot ofguilt for not showing up on his
doorstep more and making more ofan effort.
It was very complicated.
There was so much in the yearthat we didn't really speak that
(07:28):
needed to be addressed, I knewit wasn't the time and I was
comfortable with that, But Ialso had just really started my
battle with infertility, and forthe first time in my life was
actually experiencing my owndepression, so it was difficult
to be there, in the way that Iwish I had
Dr. Dean (07:48):
I think with these unexpected losses, especially
with something like suicide,you're left with all of this
unsaid, unresolved conflict
Jillian Prouse (07:56):
Yea I did have the opportunity to speak to his
therapist because she happenedto also be one of my therapists
and she had shared thatsimilarly to how I felt that
when he was clear he was veryclear.
He knew that repair needed tohappen and he was excited to do
it just wasn't the right time.
Dr. Dean (08:14):
yeah, I'm glad that you were able to get that
confirmation.
And I'm sure that as you alludedto, it's hard to carry that.
Where are you today with grief?
Jillian Prouse (08:23):
It's all pretty complicated.
His ex wife has basically, we'vebecome the enemy.
so there's a court, situationhappening for my parents to have
visitation with the children.
I have not seen them.
I have not spoken to them.
and they are just following thecourt orders and rules and
waiting to, they've had a coupleof video chats with them.
(08:44):
They're going to keep pursuingthat because Logan, the youngest
was living with my parents whenBrandon died to help him My
parents were very involved intheir grandchildren's lives and
they were there to help.
Initially, my husband and I andmy parents were very close and
rallied around the fight thatneeded to happen.
(09:04):
In our case, it was more thefight came before the grief.
so I think definitely for mymom, her grief has been delayed.
and for myself, it's a mixedbag.
I'm less at the forefront of thefight I'm more on the sidelines.
So I've had my grief creep in.
My husband's extremelysupportive.
(09:26):
I'm very lucky to have him, butI would say in these later
months, things between myparents and I are definitely
becoming strained.
Dr. Dean (09:34):
Mm hmm.
It's so hard when we loseanyone, but especially I think
the sibling in that family unitjust changes so much.
Jillian Prouse (09:41):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (09:41):
What was it like for you to find out that he had
died?
Jillian Prouse (09:45):
I think just the ultimate shock I can picture the
entire day as if it wereyesterday.
I was Christmas holidays so Iwasn't working I was at home
with our daughter.
I had just been to a differentcity for a fertility
appointment.
I was holding our daughter forher nap, a very normal day,
Dr. Dean (10:02):
hmm.
Jillian Prouse (10:03):
and my husband came upstairs to tell me
something.
He said, you gotta put her down,and I was like, just tell me.
You know something's not right,but never in my wildest dreams
was that what was about to comeout of his mouth.
and as I mentioned earlier, myhouse is just up the street from
my brother's, so I.
immediately jumped up and was athis house within minutes.
(10:23):
My parents were there.
Police were still there.
It was a very chaotic, emotionalscene.
Dr. Dean (10:30):
hmm.
Do you replay that often in yourmind?
Jillian Prouse (10:34):
I do, but there's also a part of me that's
really grateful that I don't,it's, I can't explain it, that
we were there for him at theend, we weren't, or he would
still be here, but that we werethe ones that were there and
showed up and
Dr. Dean (10:49):
I do want to share with you.
So when I was a doctoral intern,my mentor said to me, there's a
lot that we have responsibilityfor as mental health
professionals, but we canultimately not control what
someone does.
And I want to share that withyou because it sounds like
you're carrying this grief of wewere there, but Ultimately, you
weren't is what you said, andand still you were there, right?
(11:12):
You did as much as you can, itsounds like, and I know with
suicide, there are so many mixedemotions
Jillian Prouse (11:18):
Yeah, it's, complicated to say the least,
Dr. Dean (11:21):
sibling loss is disenfranchised, but that so is
suicide loss.
So you've got the double whammyof disenfranchisement, which
just simply means other peopledon't understand or acknowledge
it.
Did you get some period of timeoff after that for work?
Jillian Prouse (11:38):
Yes, I was lucky.
I just happened to be in acontract that allowed me to be
off almost the entire time thatthe school year was still in.
So from January until June, Ionly worked a handful of days in
June I'm lucky now I haveanother part time job and I'm
only going to be doing thatuntil this coming January.
(12:01):
So I have essentially a year offwith a little bit of sprinkling
of work in there.
Dr. Dean (12:06):
Has that helped you with your coping
Jillian Prouse (12:08):
Yes and no.
Yes in the sense that Very muchafter this happened, my own four
walls became I didn't want toleave my home.
I didn't want to see anybody.
I didn't want to, but my griefhas also been delayed because
(12:30):
I'm at home caring for a twoyear old.
In the early days, grief justhappens.
It wasn't a case of I can tap inand turn it on and off and that
it just, it would happen.
And I would have to stuff itdown because.
two is too young for me to justbe totally losing it in front of
her.
I would let the tears out and Iwould just say to her like, all
feelings are okay.
(12:50):
Sadness is okay, but I couldn't,stay in my bed all day or,
Dr. Dean (12:54):
You had to compartmentalize it so that you
could take care of her.
Yeah.
Plus you were also going througha difficult thing with the
infertility,
Jillian Prouse (13:04):
yes.
Dr. Dean (13:05):
Yeah.
That's a lot.
Jillian Prouse (13:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (13:09):
Yeah.
that you wish you had known?
around grief and loss or siblinggrief specifically.
Jillian Prouse (13:17):
I just, I wish I knew anything about grief.
I didn't expect my firstexperience with grief to be,
Brandon.
You know, the relationship thatis your entire life and expected
to be almost your entire life.
I had no idea what I was in for.
Dr. Dean (13:36):
You were the older sibling?
Jillian Prouse (13:38):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (13:39):
Yeah, so he was there from most of the time that you
can remember, I'm guessing
Jillian Prouse (13:43):
yes.
Dr. Dean (13:43):
What other things did you want to share?
Jillian Prouse (13:46):
I think two of the big takeaways, which are
very different.
I know that suicide and mentalhealth is very nuanced and very
complicated because there's abig push and a big conversation
to do more.
but I am having a really hardtime understanding what that
means.
I'm having a really hard timegrasping what that would even
(14:10):
look like And then because I'velived through it, could it have
actually applied to my brother?
I don't know, I guess I justdon't know how to to move past
that, because there's this partof you that feels a
responsibility now, anobligation almost, to somehow
contribute to things gettingbetter.
But I have no concept of whatthat looks, like the
(14:33):
tangibility, I don't know whatthat looks like.
And I struggle with that a lot.
Dr. Dean (14:38):
It's interesting, you feel like you have to do
something, you have to stayinvolved.
Can you say more about that?
Jillian Prouse (14:44):
I don't know if it's because of the loss, but I
feel this kind of strugglebetween, for example, September
is Suicide Awareness Month andPrevention Month and many
people, well intentioned, aresharing lots of things on social
media and encouraging people totalk about things, but.
(15:04):
It all feels so empty becausethis, raising awareness, what
does that actually do?
It's like these pieces that justare never going to actually
connect, as if we can talk aboutit, but that's not actually
going to stop people fromengaging in taking their lives.
Dr. Dean (15:23):
hmm,
Jillian Prouse (15:24):
I think about it all the time.
I think about him alone at theend and I just, what
conversation could have precededthat event to stop it?
Dr. Dean (15:33):
Mm hmm,
Jillian Prouse (15:36):
I add to that, he was in communication with his
ex wife and he had told her thatthis is what he was going to do
and she did not reach out toanybody.
Dr. Dean (15:45):
Mm hmm.
So it sounds like there's some.
understandable anger there.
Jillian Prouse (15:48):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (15:49):
I can't imagine how hard that must be to know that
someone knew.
So back to your point ofawareness, what can we do with
that?
Jillian Prouse (15:55):
Yeah.
It's been really difficult totake that.
As you were discussing earlier,that personal responsibility
component, like yes, ultimatelyhe was going to do what he was
going to do.
He's an individual person withhis own capabilities and
thoughts and free will,depending on which way you
believe in that.
But somebody had knowledge andcould it have been a different
(16:16):
outcome?
Dr. Dean (16:17):
that's so hard to go back to, right?
That what if,
Jillian Prouse (16:20):
mm-Hmm.
Dr. Dean (16:21):
I'm guessing you have no communication with her.
Jillian Prouse (16:23):
No, it's been a very difficult, unique
situation, the way that Canadianlaw works, even though they were
not together, she was not livingin the home, she is still
legally his wife, so she hasmoved back into his home,
resides there with the kids.
And the day after he died, myparents and I went back to his
home and what else do you do inthose kind of early days of fog
(16:48):
and you don't know what to do.
We were just trying to keepourselves in reality and figure
out what we have to do, what arenext steps.
And she very quickly insertedherself and said she was coming
to the home and it was her homeand we were to leave
immediately.
She sent police there.
(17:08):
So, the day after he died, I wasface to face with a 6 foot 230
pound detective saying no,absolutely not, I'm not leaving
this home.
This is a civil matter.
This has nothing to do with lawenforcement.
You may leave.
and that's how we spent the dayafter he died.
My heart breaks for anyone whohas to watch someone close to
(17:31):
them, a sibling, a dear friend,a parent exist in a toxic
relationship.
Dr. Dean (17:36):
mm hmm It's certainly difficult for sure.
My own brother and his wife wereIn the process of divorcing,
when he died.
So I relate with you on that.
Some toxic things happened theretoo.
It took away from your grief andyour ability to mourn and do
what was next.
Jillian Prouse (17:52):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (17:53):
Yeah.
Were you able to have a funeral?
Jillian Prouse (17:55):
We planned a celebration of life.
The day that he died, a funeraldirector came, who my mom had
reached out to, it's a smallcommunity.
She knew who she wanted, so hewas present at the home,
explained what would happen tohis body, that it would have to
be autopsied in a differentcity, and then it would be
(18:17):
brought back, and then we couldarrange for cremation, because
that was the plan.
And a few days after that,everything was halted because
the ex wife, then spoke up andsaid, actually, it's up to me
what happens.
Dr. Dean (18:33):
Mm.
Jillian Prouse (18:33):
which then became a fight because,
understandably when we were inhis home, the detectives, the
funeral director, all said, youdo not want to see him like
this.
they would not let us, they verystrongly advised us not to go to
the basement to see him.
So I had said, okay, if we'renot going to see him now, then
(18:58):
before he's cremated we, we needto see him.
I knew that it would beimportant for my parents
Dr. Dean (19:05):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (19:06):
and I knew that it would be important for me to,
to not, not an easy site, butfor our last picture of him to
not be in a body bag.
Dr. Dean (19:18):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Jillian Prouse (19:21):
And she stepped in and tried to stop the whole
process because she's the wife.
which meant that we may not getto see him.
This is how our process hasbeen.
one thing after another.
Dr. Dean (19:33):
hmm.
Mm
Jillian Prouse (19:34):
Ultimately, my parents agreed to pay for all of
the arrangements and then sheagreed to let us continue with
the plan that he would becremated, that we would get to
see him beforehand.
That also meant she could seehim beforehand and that his
Remains would be split betweenher and my parents.
Dr. Dean (19:57):
Mm hmm.
My sister in law did somethingsimilar.
I...
Feel with you.
I'm sorry for you as well.
Yeah.
so the celebration, I know otherpeople have mentioned
celebration, doesn't feel like acelebration.
I'm wondering how that was foryou.
Jillian Prouse (20:13):
Very surreal, I think it occurred about three
weeks after he died.
I very actively knew that itwasn't going to help or aid my
parents or it was something thatwe had to do for his friends,
for people in the community.
It felt like a completely out ofbody experience.
(20:35):
it was thrown in a way, it wasat a local brewery that's, you
can see the brewery from hisfront porch.
He went there all the time, notall the time, but it was like
the spot he would go if he wentout for a beer.
Hundreds of people camethroughout the day and it was a
snowstorm, It was, beautiful ina way to see so many people come
(21:00):
and honor, but then you have todeal with the flip side of that,
that all those people veryquickly disappear.
yea
Dr. Dean (21:09):
And then you're left with trying to figure it out.
Jillian Prouse (21:12):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (21:12):
Where did you find support after his passing and
after everyone else had gone onwith their lives?
Jillian Prouse (21:18):
my husband, I've been very lucky.
I know that not allrelationships are as healthy.
Or as connected I don't have abad word to say about how he
handled, how he is handlingeverything surrounding my grief,
my process, else that's goingon.
(21:38):
and then there are some programsavailable.
There's some group therapy thatmy parents attended.
I'm about to attend a grouptherapy session.
It's not necessarily for.
Sibling specifically, but forsuicide survivors.
And then I was put in touchwith, a woman who does zoom
(22:00):
therapy for again, suicidesurvivors.
And she herself lost her brotherthe same way.
So it's been good to connectwith somebody who actually has a
similar story,
Dr. Dean (22:11):
Right.
And how wonderful that she waswilling to share that with you
in that way.
I'm glad that you'll have thatsupport.
especially as you go in to theanniversaries, have you thought
about the end of this year andwhat that might be like?
Jillian Prouse (22:27):
Yeah, it's, I keep saying to my husband that
the winter is going to beprobably the roughest winter of
my whole life.
It's going to be dark, it'sgoing to be cold, it's going to,
it's all going to come.
Those early days, the moment ithappened, it's all gonna feel as
(22:49):
though it's all going to justexist in the air for months.
And I am dreading it.
Yeah
Dr. Dean (22:58):
and that's understandable.
Have you had birthdays and sincehis passing?
Jillian Prouse (23:03):
Yeah, we had his birthday.
We, have had a couple of smallgatherings with just his closest
friends and my family.
Just get togethers where we eatfood and just hang out.
Are you able
Dr. Dean (23:16):
to feel any connection with him currently?
Jillian Prouse (23:18):
not as often as I would like, I was pregnant
around his birthday this yearand then miscarried again.
And it was all very, thank you.
I felt extremely connectedbecause I had people in my life
saying, now he can work magicand now he can, and I didn't
(23:40):
believe or not believe.
Dr. Dean (23:43):
Mm-Hmm.
Jillian Prouse (23:43):
the due date was right around the time that he
died.
And so I just, it felt very, Idon't know, coincidental, but
not, but then we miscarried.
So I'm kind of at a loss
Dr. Dean (23:57):
Yeah.
That's a lot of loss.
Jillian Prouse (23:59):
yeah.
Dr. Dean (24:00):
Yeah.
when you think about him, howhard is it for you to think
about before he died and thegood times?
Jillian Prouse (24:07):
love thinking about it, actually.
Dr. Dean (24:10):
Oh, good.
Jillian Prouse (24:11):
I, I just...
When I think about how silly andgoofy and stupid we were and
some of the trouble we got intotogether and for the most part,
it makes me feel good.
But then I get sad because wewere entering, had entered, our
phase of life where we had bothbecome parents and now all of
(24:34):
this shared experience that wassupposed to happen, us raising
kids together, is now not athing.
Dr. Dean (24:40):
right?
Jillian Prouse (24:40):
And I'm just, I'm so curious, these big life
questions that I don't actuallycarry the answer to from anybody
else but him.
I want to say to him, what didit mean to you to become a
parent?
What did that feel like for you?
all of these lost moments andchats and things that I don't
(25:04):
get to have, that's reallydifficult.
Dr. Dean (25:07):
Right.
Thinking about how many more ofthose moments will be, I wonder
if you let yourself go there ornot.
Jillian Prouse (25:13):
Sometimes it's so hard, right now for me
personally becoming a parent.
I'm sure many people do, but Ialso am aware that not everyone
does, but I take it veryseriously.
Dr. Dean (25:25):
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Jillian Prouse (25:26):
husband and I have many conversations about
parenting styles and.
How to raise our daughter in away that does give her as many
of the advantages that wepossibly can for her mental
health in how she's nurtured andraised and all of that.
and that has brought up for me,a lot of things from my
(25:47):
childhood, ways that I wasraised and it's not a criticism
of my parents.
the research has come so far inthe last 20 years and It just
devastates me that I can't sayto the one person like, hey, did
you find this from childhood toaffect you in this way?
How are you going to do itdifferently?
(26:07):
Do you see how this from ourchildhood has manifested in your
life?
How do you approach it?
All of this, all these bigthings that build you into the
person you are that he wouldhave the insight to and the
answers to and,
Dr. Dean (26:25):
Right?
Nobody else understands whatthat was like to be in that
childhood.
And I think that's the oneunique thing about sibling loss.
And again, all losses are hard.
So I'm not comparing them, but Ithink that is one unique aspect
of this, is just how thatperson, especially your only
sibling, like you don't haveeven another sibling to ask
(26:45):
about.
Yeah, that, lost.
Jillian Prouse (26:49):
Yeah, and then it's reflected everywhere around
me.
I can't imagine what my parentsare going through losing a
child.
but who is rallying around them?
My mom's sister and her brother.
Dr. Dean (27:00):
hmm.
Jillian Prouse (27:01):
They're there every day.
They check on them every day.
They do
Dr. Dean (27:05):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (27:05):
them every day.
reflected everywhere in mycircle.
It's just
Dr. Dean (27:13):
So seeing their siblings take care of them and
you not having that sibling.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's hard.
Are there things that, you'restill very early in this, in
grieving, have a long way.
Hopefully, unfortunately, you'llcarry this through the rest of
your life.
And do you know what you neededfrom people or what you didn't
(27:35):
get from people that you wishyou would have?
Jillian Prouse (27:38):
I would say it's more now.
So the early days, the food dropoffs, which were incredible
because, like again, with a twoyear old at home and trying to
navigate all the fights that wewere navigating and still take
care of her and feed ourselves.
The phone calls, the texts, allof that, but very quickly, I
(28:02):
would say after about threemonths, it just, it stops it's
like when it first happens,you're stuck in a well, and
those early days, people arelike throwing you tools, or food
and water, expressing we don'tknow how we're going to get you
out yet, but we're going to getyou out, but just, But we're
here, keep yourself alive kindof thing, like uh hmm they throw
(28:24):
things down to you and then theyjust forget the part that they
actually have to get you out ofthe well.
So
Dr. Dean (28:30):
Mm
Jillian Prouse (28:32):
just no one shows up to be like, how are you
doing?
do you need to get out of yourhouse?
Do you need to go for a coffee?
Dr. Dean (28:38):
hmm.
how
Jillian Prouse (28:39):
are you doing?
I have one, maybe two friendsthat on a fairly regular basis
and I understand people havetheir own lives.
But I also understand how earthshattering this kind of thing
is.
Dr. Dean (28:50):
Mm
Jillian Prouse (28:51):
And so I guess the abandonment has been a
shock.
Dr. Dean (28:54):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
For sure.
I love that metaphor that youused with the well, I think that
illustrates just exactly howpeople abandon you, like you
said, in your grief.
Jillian Prouse (29:05):
dark pit forever.
Dr. Dean (29:06):
And now you're trying to figure out how to get out.
You just need a ladder.
Nobody's gonna throw that toyou.
Jillian Prouse (29:13):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (29:13):
or lassie to come rescue.
Jillian Prouse (29:15):
Yeah,
Dr. Dean (29:16):
Okay.
so What are some of yourfavorite memories that you have
of Brandon?
That we spent a lot
Jillian Prouse (29:21):
of our childhood on the beach and when we were
adults we went and all had abeach day with my parents and
his stepdaughter at the time andthere's a shipwreck just off the
shore and you could swim out toit My mom of course being my mom
was all in a panic like youcan't swim out there And I was
like, I've done it severaltimes.
(29:42):
I assure you we can we're bothstrong swimmers, we'll be fine
and We tucked a beer each in theback of our bathing suits and we
swam all the way out to thisship rusty old ship and we just
climbed up on the ship and thenwe sat there and like just him
and I Drank our beer and justtalked about I don't know truly
(30:05):
special some moments are and howgreat some of the world can be
and it just was a perfect momentmm hmm
Dr. Dean (30:14):
sounds beautiful.
So those adult moments oflearning who each other are as
an adult.
Jillian Prouse (30:19):
i really like thinking about i mean it's
difficult because there's thosemoments and i can see those
flashes when i think about himand i And then there's a shift
when he gets in deep with his exwife where the life just gets
sucked out of him and he's just,he's like a.
You know those dirt clouds thatfall around that character from
(30:42):
Charlie Brown?
Dr. Dean (30:43):
Yeah.
Jillian Prouse (30:44):
It's like you could see all the things, it's
not dirt, but all anxiety cloudsand stress clouds and all, you
could just see it following himand just so hard to watch.
It's really hard to watch.
Dr. Dean (30:56):
Have you tried to share the things that were left
unsaid, like talk to him orwrote to him or anything since
he died?
Jillian Prouse (31:04):
My husband and I take my daughter to the same
beach.
a couple of times this summerand I go out on the paddleboard
by myself and I just float outpretty deep and I've had a
couple of conversations withhim.
Dr. Dean (31:17):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (31:18):
A couple of jokes and I get mad at them
sometimes and like How dare you?
How dare you leave?
and then, yeah, I make a coupleof jokes cause he had a really
dark sense of humor and I have areally dark sense of humor, so I
make inappropriate jokes whenit's just myself and talking to
him.
Dr. Dean (31:37):
Yeah.
saw on a, it was some, I don'tknow, a Facebook thing.
this person had ashes put in fortheir sibling and it said, it's
really dark in here.
They had actually had thatengraved on there.
I was like, that's so clever.
I Are there any other memoriesthat you did want to share?
Jillian Prouse (31:54):
Him becoming a dad was a pretty special one.
Dr. Dean (31:57):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (31:57):
again, it's I've talked to since he died past
girlfriends, his high schoolsweetheart, she's very lovely.
She even said like they starteddating when they were 16 and she
was like, it's all he everwanted was a wife and kids to
take care of.
So when he finally did become adad, it was like a pretty big
moment.
(32:18):
Pretty special watching ithappen.
My wedding, I have really fondmemories of him at my wedding
and just a lot of really beforewhat I call the dark times.
So before she entered, just alot of really happy, easygoing,
moments in his backyard.
I remember there's a very famousCanadian band, The Tragically
(32:38):
Hip.
And the lead singer wasdiagnosed with a terminal brain
tumor and they went on this hugefarewell tour and they played
their last show and my parentsand my brother and a couple of
his really good buddies, we alllistened to it on an old FM
radio in the backyard, likearound a campfire and it was
(33:00):
like one of the best times
Dr. Dean (33:03):
Yeah.
Jillian Prouse (33:04):
and yeah,
Dr. Dean (33:06):
Yeah.
Sounds like he was a lovelyhuman being and I'm very sorry
for your loss.
Jillian Prouse (33:11):
Thank you.
Dr. Dean (33:12):
Thank you for sharing today.
Thank you so much for listening.
Our theme song was written byJoe Mylwood and Brian Dean, and
was performed by Joe Mylwood.
If you would like moreinformation on the Broken Pack,
go to our website, the brokenpack.com.
Be sure to sign up for ournewsletter, Wild Grief, to learn
about opportunities and receiveexclusive information and
(33:32):
grieving tips for subscribers.
Information on that, our socialmedia and on our guests can be
found in the show notes whereveryou get your podcasts.
Please follow, subscribe, andshare.
Thanks again.
Hello and welcome to the Broken Pack, a podcast
focused on giving adultsurvivors of sibling loss, a
platform to share their storiesand to be heard.
Something that many sibling losssurvivors state that they never
have had.
Sibling Loss is Misunderstood™.
The Broken Pack exists to changethat and to support survivors.
(00:32):
I'm your host, Dr.
Angela Dean.
In today's episode, Jillian andI discuss losing her brother,
Brandon, to suicide, somechallenging family dynamics, the
Canadian healthcare system, andhow difficult it has been to
grieve her brother.
she's very early in grief.
We recorded this in September of2023.
(00:55):
She lost her brother less than ayear ago.
Her heartbreak is palpable asmany of us have experienced.
Take a listen.
Content warning.
Information presented in thisepisode may be triggering to
some people.
(01:15):
It contains talk of suicide.
Welcome to the show, Jillian, Iwas wondering what you wanted
our listeners to know about you.
Jillian Prouse (01:22):
My name is Jillian.
I am a mom of a two and a halfyear old and a teacher.
and I lost my only sibling,Brandon, this year.
Dr. Dean (01:32):
Thank you.
Before we talk about losing him,I was wondering what Brandon was
like and what you want us toknow about him.
Jillian Prouse (01:38):
Brandon was very funny.
Very funny.
but also very introverted.
So you had to really know him toget that side of him.
He was very smart.
very responsible.
He also had this side of himthat I share where you just
decide for lack of a betterterm, you say fuck it and you
just grab onto life and do thereally fun things and the really
(02:00):
crazy things and the really wildthings.
He lived like that in hisyounger years and so did I.
He was a dad, two small kids,one stepchild.
It's all he ever wanted, was afamily.
He just had the biggest heartfor the people in his life.
Dr. Dean (02:14):
Sounds like a good guy Yeah.
I can see that this is reallyhard for you to talk about him.
What was your relationship likewith him?
Jillian Prouse (02:22):
We had a good relationship, when we were kids,
very typical.
There wasn't too much siblingrivalry or anything like that,
we were four years apart so wehad our own things going on but
also still each other.
Then I was out of the house atpost secondary when he started
high school so we had that gap.
And then in our adult years weboth ended up settling in the
same town that my parents hadmoved to.
(02:45):
So we could all be close so thatwhen we eventually had families
we could raise our kids close toour parents and my house is
actually just down the streetfrom his house.
We were best friends like fairlyclose up until he met his wife
who was his ex wife at the timeof his death.
Dr. Dean (03:07):
That's hard.
So they were already divorced orin the process of it.
Jillian Prouse (03:10):
They had separated and then, just prior
to his passing, there was someclaims of reconciliation, but it
was all very dark and not theroute.
Dr. Dean (03:23):
Yeah.
Not the route you wanted forhim.
Jillian Prouse (03:25):
No.
Dr. Dean (03:27):
What would you like to share about that loss and losing
him?
Jillian Prouse (03:31):
I think the shock of it, He died by suicide.
So that's an added element.
He was hospitalized in Novemberfor ideation and then it seems.
Like he was getting the help heneeded, the therapy he needed.
He was off work on a leave tojust focus on his mental health.
He was separated from her.
(03:53):
he had reached out to me andjust said, I know I owe you an
apology and it'll come, but Ijust really need you right now.
And I said, of course, likeanything you need through this
time.
Shane and I, Shane is myhusband, we are absolutely here.
My parents were helping him takecare of the kids because she
just left the kids there.
(04:14):
and then I had him over forChristmas and that was the last
time that I saw him alive.
It was my parents and him andall of our kids and...
And he let it slip when we werehaving a private conversation
that, oh, they were working onthings and I had just said to
him, you know that this isn'tgoing to end well, and you know
(04:37):
that if she's in your life inthis way, I can't be around.
And that was the last kind ofconversation we had.
Dr. Dean (04:48):
Sounds like it was a heavy conversation for you.
Jillian Prouse (04:51):
Yeah.
Because prior to that, at thebeginning of December, I had
accompanied him to pick up hiskids from her home in a
different city.
She was staying with her mom.
He stopped on the way and gotout of the car and said, I need
to throw my wedding rings intothe fields and it's done.
And I just remember breathing ahuge sigh of relief that, we
(05:13):
were all gonna get him back.
the Brandon that we all knew,that actually enjoyed living,
where everything wasn't astruggle.
I was so hopeful for him.
Dr. Dean (05:22):
Did you see any glimpse of that in that month?
Jillian Prouse (05:24):
I think him starting therapy, he seemed to
be really self reflective, andhe seemed to be taking it very
seriously.
He seemed to be taking it in.
I know he was reaching out forsome other resources.
He talked a lot about shadowwork.
And I think he was finallystarting to address some of the
things that were maybe the causeof some of the behavior and
(05:45):
problems to do with his mentalhealth.
He was on the right track.
Dr. Dean (05:50):
For frame of reference, because you're in
Canada, what is the mentalhealth system like there,
meaning how accessible is it toget the help you need.
Jillian Prouse (05:59):
I would say...
It's not overly accessible or,helpful.
After he was hospitalized forideation, they basically sent
him on his way and said apsychiatrist would be in touch.
And my mom got involved becausedays were starting to go by and
nobody was getting in touch.
And they said, Oh, becausethere's a very long wait list.
(06:19):
So because of public healthcare,which is incredible in many
ways, the wait lists are verylong.
And dealing with something likethis, time is very important.
Dr. Dean (06:30):
So is mental health care covered under your national
health care?
Jillian Prouse (06:35):
No, so his hospital stay was covered, and
then his psychiatry would havebeen covered, but we didn't know
when he was going to get in.
My parents stepped in and gothim a therapist that his job had
some private coverage through.
Dr. Dean (06:50):
Okay.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Cause I know I talked to someonein the UK and their system's
similar.
Here everything obviously isprivate, or mostly.
So as you watched him struggle,what was happening with your
relationship then?
You set a pretty firm boundary.
It sounds like.
Jillian Prouse (07:07):
Yeah, Prior to that conversation, because he
only died.
a little bit more than a weekafter that conversation, I just
would text him and check in onhim, and just say we're here,
but I definitely carry a lot ofguilt for not showing up on his
doorstep more and making more ofan effort.
It was very complicated.
There was so much in the yearthat we didn't really speak that
(07:28):
needed to be addressed, I knewit wasn't the time and I was
comfortable with that, But Ialso had just really started my
battle with infertility, and forthe first time in my life was
actually experiencing my owndepression, so it was difficult
to be there, in the way that Iwish I had
Dr. Dean (07:48):
I think with these unexpected losses, especially
with something like suicide,you're left with all of this
unsaid, unresolved conflict
Jillian Prouse (07:56):
Yea I did have the opportunity to speak to his
therapist because she happenedto also be one of my therapists
and she had shared thatsimilarly to how I felt that
when he was clear he was veryclear.
He knew that repair needed tohappen and he was excited to do
it just wasn't the right time.
Dr. Dean (08:14):
yeah, I'm glad that you were able to get that
confirmation.
And I'm sure that as you alludedto, it's hard to carry that.
Where are you today with grief?
Jillian Prouse (08:23):
It's all pretty complicated.
His ex wife has basically, we'vebecome the enemy.
so there's a court, situationhappening for my parents to have
visitation with the children.
I have not seen them.
I have not spoken to them.
and they are just following thecourt orders and rules and
waiting to, they've had a coupleof video chats with them.
(08:44):
They're going to keep pursuingthat because Logan, the youngest
was living with my parents whenBrandon died to help him My
parents were very involved intheir grandchildren's lives and
they were there to help.
Initially, my husband and I andmy parents were very close and
rallied around the fight thatneeded to happen.
(09:04):
In our case, it was more thefight came before the grief.
so I think definitely for mymom, her grief has been delayed.
and for myself, it's a mixedbag.
I'm less at the forefront of thefight I'm more on the sidelines.
So I've had my grief creep in.
My husband's extremelysupportive.
(09:26):
I'm very lucky to have him, butI would say in these later
months, things between myparents and I are definitely
becoming strained.
Dr. Dean (09:34):
Mm hmm.
It's so hard when we loseanyone, but especially I think
the sibling in that family unitjust changes so much.
Jillian Prouse (09:41):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (09:41):
What was it like for you to find out that he had
died?
Jillian Prouse (09:45):
I think just the ultimate shock I can picture the
entire day as if it wereyesterday.
I was Christmas holidays so Iwasn't working I was at home
with our daughter.
I had just been to a differentcity for a fertility
appointment.
I was holding our daughter forher nap, a very normal day,
Dr. Dean (10:02):
hmm.
Jillian Prouse (10:03):
and my husband came upstairs to tell me
something.
He said, you gotta put her down,and I was like, just tell me.
You know something's not right,but never in my wildest dreams
was that what was about to comeout of his mouth.
and as I mentioned earlier, myhouse is just up the street from
my brother's, so I.
immediately jumped up and was athis house within minutes.
(10:23):
My parents were there.
Police were still there.
It was a very chaotic, emotionalscene.
Dr. Dean (10:30):
hmm.
Do you replay that often in yourmind?
Jillian Prouse (10:34):
I do, but there's also a part of me that's
really grateful that I don't,it's, I can't explain it, that
we were there for him at theend, we weren't, or he would
still be here, but that we werethe ones that were there and
showed up and
Dr. Dean (10:49):
I do want to share with you.
So when I was a doctoral intern,my mentor said to me, there's a
lot that we have responsibilityfor as mental health
professionals, but we canultimately not control what
someone does.
And I want to share that withyou because it sounds like
you're carrying this grief of wewere there, but Ultimately, you
weren't is what you said, andand still you were there, right?
(11:12):
You did as much as you can, itsounds like, and I know with
suicide, there are so many mixedemotions
Jillian Prouse (11:18):
Yeah, it's, complicated to say the least,
Dr. Dean (11:21):
sibling loss is disenfranchised, but that so is
suicide loss.
So you've got the double whammyof disenfranchisement, which
just simply means other peopledon't understand or acknowledge
it.
Did you get some period of timeoff after that for work?
Jillian Prouse (11:38):
Yes, I was lucky.
I just happened to be in acontract that allowed me to be
off almost the entire time thatthe school year was still in.
So from January until June, Ionly worked a handful of days in
June I'm lucky now I haveanother part time job and I'm
only going to be doing thatuntil this coming January.
(12:01):
So I have essentially a year offwith a little bit of sprinkling
of work in there.
Dr. Dean (12:06):
Has that helped you with your coping
Jillian Prouse (12:08):
Yes and no.
Yes in the sense that Very muchafter this happened, my own four
walls became I didn't want toleave my home.
I didn't want to see anybody.
I didn't want to, but my griefhas also been delayed because
(12:30):
I'm at home caring for a twoyear old.
In the early days, grief justhappens.
It wasn't a case of I can tap inand turn it on and off and that
it just, it would happen.
And I would have to stuff itdown because.
two is too young for me to justbe totally losing it in front of
her.
I would let the tears out and Iwould just say to her like, all
feelings are okay.
(12:50):
Sadness is okay, but I couldn't,stay in my bed all day or,
Dr. Dean (12:54):
You had to compartmentalize it so that you
could take care of her.
Yeah.
Plus you were also going througha difficult thing with the
infertility,
Jillian Prouse (13:04):
yes.
Dr. Dean (13:05):
Yeah.
That's a lot.
Jillian Prouse (13:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (13:09):
Yeah.
that you wish you had known?
around grief and loss or siblinggrief specifically.
Jillian Prouse (13:17):
I just, I wish I knew anything about grief.
I didn't expect my firstexperience with grief to be,
Brandon.
You know, the relationship thatis your entire life and expected
to be almost your entire life.
I had no idea what I was in for.
Dr. Dean (13:36):
You were the older sibling?
Jillian Prouse (13:38):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (13:39):
Yeah, so he was there from most of the time that you
can remember, I'm guessing
Jillian Prouse (13:43):
yes.
Dr. Dean (13:43):
What other things did you want to share?
Jillian Prouse (13:46):
I think two of the big takeaways, which are
very different.
I know that suicide and mentalhealth is very nuanced and very
complicated because there's abig push and a big conversation
to do more.
but I am having a really hardtime understanding what that
means.
I'm having a really hard timegrasping what that would even
(14:10):
look like And then because I'velived through it, could it have
actually applied to my brother?
I don't know, I guess I justdon't know how to to move past
that, because there's this partof you that feels a
responsibility now, anobligation almost, to somehow
contribute to things gettingbetter.
But I have no concept of whatthat looks, like the
(14:33):
tangibility, I don't know whatthat looks like.
And I struggle with that a lot.
Dr. Dean (14:38):
It's interesting, you feel like you have to do
something, you have to stayinvolved.
Can you say more about that?
Jillian Prouse (14:44):
I don't know if it's because of the loss, but I
feel this kind of strugglebetween, for example, September
is Suicide Awareness Month andPrevention Month and many
people, well intentioned, aresharing lots of things on social
media and encouraging people totalk about things, but.
(15:04):
It all feels so empty becausethis, raising awareness, what
does that actually do?
It's like these pieces that justare never going to actually
connect, as if we can talk aboutit, but that's not actually
going to stop people fromengaging in taking their lives.
Dr. Dean (15:23):
hmm,
Jillian Prouse (15:24):
I think about it all the time.
I think about him alone at theend and I just, what
conversation could have precededthat event to stop it?
Dr. Dean (15:33):
Mm hmm,
Jillian Prouse (15:36):
I add to that, he was in communication with his
ex wife and he had told her thatthis is what he was going to do
and she did not reach out toanybody.
Dr. Dean (15:45):
Mm hmm.
So it sounds like there's some.
understandable anger there.
Jillian Prouse (15:48):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (15:49):
I can't imagine how hard that must be to know that
someone knew.
So back to your point ofawareness, what can we do with
that?
Jillian Prouse (15:55):
Yeah.
It's been really difficult totake that.
As you were discussing earlier,that personal responsibility
component, like yes, ultimatelyhe was going to do what he was
going to do.
He's an individual person withhis own capabilities and
thoughts and free will,depending on which way you
believe in that.
But somebody had knowledge andcould it have been a different
(16:16):
outcome?
Dr. Dean (16:17):
that's so hard to go back to, right?
That what if,
Jillian Prouse (16:20):
mm-Hmm.
Dr. Dean (16:21):
I'm guessing you have no communication with her.
Jillian Prouse (16:23):
No, it's been a very difficult, unique
situation, the way that Canadianlaw works, even though they were
not together, she was not livingin the home, she is still
legally his wife, so she hasmoved back into his home,
resides there with the kids.
And the day after he died, myparents and I went back to his
home and what else do you do inthose kind of early days of fog
(16:48):
and you don't know what to do.
We were just trying to keepourselves in reality and figure
out what we have to do, what arenext steps.
And she very quickly insertedherself and said she was coming
to the home and it was her homeand we were to leave
immediately.
She sent police there.
(17:08):
So, the day after he died, I wasface to face with a 6 foot 230
pound detective saying no,absolutely not, I'm not leaving
this home.
This is a civil matter.
This has nothing to do with lawenforcement.
You may leave.
and that's how we spent the dayafter he died.
My heart breaks for anyone whohas to watch someone close to
(17:31):
them, a sibling, a dear friend,a parent exist in a toxic
relationship.
Dr. Dean (17:36):
mm hmm It's certainly difficult for sure.
My own brother and his wife wereIn the process of divorcing,
when he died.
So I relate with you on that.
Some toxic things happened theretoo.
It took away from your grief andyour ability to mourn and do
what was next.
Jillian Prouse (17:52):
Yes.
Dr. Dean (17:53):
Yeah.
Were you able to have a funeral?
Jillian Prouse (17:55):
We planned a celebration of life.
The day that he died, a funeraldirector came, who my mom had
reached out to, it's a smallcommunity.
She knew who she wanted, so hewas present at the home,
explained what would happen tohis body, that it would have to
be autopsied in a differentcity, and then it would be
(18:17):
brought back, and then we couldarrange for cremation, because
that was the plan.
And a few days after that,everything was halted because
the ex wife, then spoke up andsaid, actually, it's up to me
what happens.
Dr. Dean (18:33):
Mm.
Jillian Prouse (18:33):
which then became a fight because,
understandably when we were inhis home, the detectives, the
funeral director, all said, youdo not want to see him like
this.
they would not let us, they verystrongly advised us not to go to
the basement to see him.
So I had said, okay, if we'renot going to see him now, then
(18:58):
before he's cremated we, we needto see him.
I knew that it would beimportant for my parents
Dr. Dean (19:05):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (19:06):
and I knew that it would be important for me to,
to not, not an easy site, butfor our last picture of him to
not be in a body bag.
Dr. Dean (19:18):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm
Jillian Prouse (19:21):
And she stepped in and tried to stop the whole
process because she's the wife.
which meant that we may not getto see him.
This is how our process hasbeen.
one thing after another.
Dr. Dean (19:33):
hmm.
Mm
Jillian Prouse (19:34):
Ultimately, my parents agreed to pay for all of
the arrangements and then sheagreed to let us continue with
the plan that he would becremated, that we would get to
see him beforehand.
That also meant she could seehim beforehand and that his
Remains would be split betweenher and my parents.
Dr. Dean (19:57):
Mm hmm.
My sister in law did somethingsimilar.
I...
Feel with you.
I'm sorry for you as well.
Yeah.
so the celebration, I know otherpeople have mentioned
celebration, doesn't feel like acelebration.
I'm wondering how that was foryou.
Jillian Prouse (20:13):
Very surreal, I think it occurred about three
weeks after he died.
I very actively knew that itwasn't going to help or aid my
parents or it was something thatwe had to do for his friends,
for people in the community.
It felt like a completely out ofbody experience.
(20:35):
it was thrown in a way, it wasat a local brewery that's, you
can see the brewery from hisfront porch.
He went there all the time, notall the time, but it was like
the spot he would go if he wentout for a beer.
Hundreds of people camethroughout the day and it was a
snowstorm, It was, beautiful ina way to see so many people come
(21:00):
and honor, but then you have todeal with the flip side of that,
that all those people veryquickly disappear.
yea
Dr. Dean (21:09):
And then you're left with trying to figure it out.
Jillian Prouse (21:12):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (21:12):
Where did you find support after his passing and
after everyone else had gone onwith their lives?
Jillian Prouse (21:18):
my husband, I've been very lucky.
I know that not allrelationships are as healthy.
Or as connected I don't have abad word to say about how he
handled, how he is handlingeverything surrounding my grief,
my process, else that's goingon.
(21:38):
and then there are some programsavailable.
There's some group therapy thatmy parents attended.
I'm about to attend a grouptherapy session.
It's not necessarily for.
Sibling specifically, but forsuicide survivors.
And then I was put in touchwith, a woman who does zoom
(22:00):
therapy for again, suicidesurvivors.
And she herself lost her brotherthe same way.
So it's been good to connectwith somebody who actually has a
similar story,
Dr. Dean (22:11):
Right.
And how wonderful that she waswilling to share that with you
in that way.
I'm glad that you'll have thatsupport.
especially as you go in to theanniversaries, have you thought
about the end of this year andwhat that might be like?
Jillian Prouse (22:27):
Yeah, it's, I keep saying to my husband that
the winter is going to beprobably the roughest winter of
my whole life.
It's going to be dark, it'sgoing to be cold, it's going to,
it's all going to come.
Those early days, the moment ithappened, it's all gonna feel as
(22:49):
though it's all going to justexist in the air for months.
And I am dreading it.
Yeah
Dr. Dean (22:58):
and that's understandable.
Have you had birthdays and sincehis passing?
Jillian Prouse (23:03):
Yeah, we had his birthday.
We, have had a couple of smallgatherings with just his closest
friends and my family.
Just get togethers where we eatfood and just hang out.
Are you able
Dr. Dean (23:16):
to feel any connection with him currently?
Jillian Prouse (23:18):
not as often as I would like, I was pregnant
around his birthday this yearand then miscarried again.
And it was all very, thank you.
I felt extremely connectedbecause I had people in my life
saying, now he can work magicand now he can, and I didn't
(23:40):
believe or not believe.
Dr. Dean (23:43):
Mm-Hmm.
Jillian Prouse (23:43):
the due date was right around the time that he
died.
And so I just, it felt very, Idon't know, coincidental, but
not, but then we miscarried.
So I'm kind of at a loss
Dr. Dean (23:57):
Yeah.
That's a lot of loss.
Jillian Prouse (23:59):
yeah.
Dr. Dean (24:00):
Yeah.
when you think about him, howhard is it for you to think
about before he died and thegood times?
Jillian Prouse (24:07):
love thinking about it, actually.
Dr. Dean (24:10):
Oh, good.
Jillian Prouse (24:11):
I, I just...
When I think about how silly andgoofy and stupid we were and
some of the trouble we got intotogether and for the most part,
it makes me feel good.
But then I get sad because wewere entering, had entered, our
phase of life where we had bothbecome parents and now all of
(24:34):
this shared experience that wassupposed to happen, us raising
kids together, is now not athing.
Dr. Dean (24:40):
right?
Jillian Prouse (24:40):
And I'm just, I'm so curious, these big life
questions that I don't actuallycarry the answer to from anybody
else but him.
I want to say to him, what didit mean to you to become a
parent?
What did that feel like for you?
all of these lost moments andchats and things that I don't
(25:04):
get to have, that's reallydifficult.
Dr. Dean (25:07):
Right.
Thinking about how many more ofthose moments will be, I wonder
if you let yourself go there ornot.
Jillian Prouse (25:13):
Sometimes it's so hard, right now for me
personally becoming a parent.
I'm sure many people do, but Ialso am aware that not everyone
does, but I take it veryseriously.
Dr. Dean (25:25):
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm.
Jillian Prouse (25:26):
husband and I have many conversations about
parenting styles and.
How to raise our daughter in away that does give her as many
of the advantages that wepossibly can for her mental
health in how she's nurtured andraised and all of that.
and that has brought up for me,a lot of things from my
(25:47):
childhood, ways that I wasraised and it's not a criticism
of my parents.
the research has come so far inthe last 20 years and It just
devastates me that I can't sayto the one person like, hey, did
you find this from childhood toaffect you in this way?
How are you going to do itdifferently?
(26:07):
Do you see how this from ourchildhood has manifested in your
life?
How do you approach it?
All of this, all these bigthings that build you into the
person you are that he wouldhave the insight to and the
answers to and,
Dr. Dean (26:25):
Right?
Nobody else understands whatthat was like to be in that
childhood.
And I think that's the oneunique thing about sibling loss.
And again, all losses are hard.
So I'm not comparing them, but Ithink that is one unique aspect
of this, is just how thatperson, especially your only
sibling, like you don't haveeven another sibling to ask
(26:45):
about.
Yeah, that, lost.
Jillian Prouse (26:49):
Yeah, and then it's reflected everywhere around
me.
I can't imagine what my parentsare going through losing a
child.
but who is rallying around them?
My mom's sister and her brother.
Dr. Dean (27:00):
hmm.
Jillian Prouse (27:01):
They're there every day.
They check on them every day.
They do
Dr. Dean (27:05):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (27:05):
them every day.
reflected everywhere in mycircle.
It's just
Dr. Dean (27:13):
So seeing their siblings take care of them and
you not having that sibling.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's hard.
Are there things that, you'restill very early in this, in
grieving, have a long way.
Hopefully, unfortunately, you'llcarry this through the rest of
your life.
And do you know what you neededfrom people or what you didn't
(27:35):
get from people that you wishyou would have?
Jillian Prouse (27:38):
I would say it's more now.
So the early days, the food dropoffs, which were incredible
because, like again, with a twoyear old at home and trying to
navigate all the fights that wewere navigating and still take
care of her and feed ourselves.
The phone calls, the texts, allof that, but very quickly, I
(28:02):
would say after about threemonths, it just, it stops it's
like when it first happens,you're stuck in a well, and
those early days, people arelike throwing you tools, or food
and water, expressing we don'tknow how we're going to get you
out yet, but we're going to getyou out, but just, But we're
here, keep yourself alive kindof thing, like uh hmm they throw
(28:24):
things down to you and then theyjust forget the part that they
actually have to get you out ofthe well.
So
Dr. Dean (28:30):
Mm
Jillian Prouse (28:32):
just no one shows up to be like, how are you
doing?
do you need to get out of yourhouse?
Do you need to go for a coffee?
Dr. Dean (28:38):
hmm.
how
Jillian Prouse (28:39):
are you doing?
I have one, maybe two friendsthat on a fairly regular basis
and I understand people havetheir own lives.
But I also understand how earthshattering this kind of thing
is.
Dr. Dean (28:50):
Mm
Jillian Prouse (28:51):
And so I guess the abandonment has been a
shock.
Dr. Dean (28:54):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
For sure.
I love that metaphor that youused with the well, I think that
illustrates just exactly howpeople abandon you, like you
said, in your grief.
Jillian Prouse (29:05):
dark pit forever.
Dr. Dean (29:06):
And now you're trying to figure out how to get out.
You just need a ladder.
Nobody's gonna throw that toyou.
Jillian Prouse (29:13):
Yeah.
Dr. Dean (29:13):
or lassie to come rescue.
Jillian Prouse (29:15):
Yeah,
Dr. Dean (29:16):
Okay.
so What are some of yourfavorite memories that you have
of Brandon?
That we spent a lot
Jillian Prouse (29:21):
of our childhood on the beach and when we were
adults we went and all had abeach day with my parents and
his stepdaughter at the time andthere's a shipwreck just off the
shore and you could swim out toit My mom of course being my mom
was all in a panic like youcan't swim out there And I was
like, I've done it severaltimes.
(29:42):
I assure you we can we're bothstrong swimmers, we'll be fine
and We tucked a beer each in theback of our bathing suits and we
swam all the way out to thisship rusty old ship and we just
climbed up on the ship and thenwe sat there and like just him
and I Drank our beer and justtalked about I don't know truly
(30:05):
special some moments are and howgreat some of the world can be
and it just was a perfect momentmm hmm
Dr. Dean (30:14):
sounds beautiful.
So those adult moments oflearning who each other are as
an adult.
Jillian Prouse (30:19):
i really like thinking about i mean it's
difficult because there's thosemoments and i can see those
flashes when i think about himand i And then there's a shift
when he gets in deep with his exwife where the life just gets
sucked out of him and he's just,he's like a.
You know those dirt clouds thatfall around that character from
(30:42):
Charlie Brown?
Dr. Dean (30:43):
Yeah.
Jillian Prouse (30:44):
It's like you could see all the things, it's
not dirt, but all anxiety cloudsand stress clouds and all, you
could just see it following himand just so hard to watch.
It's really hard to watch.
Dr. Dean (30:56):
Have you tried to share the things that were left
unsaid, like talk to him orwrote to him or anything since
he died?
Jillian Prouse (31:04):
My husband and I take my daughter to the same
beach.
a couple of times this summerand I go out on the paddleboard
by myself and I just float outpretty deep and I've had a
couple of conversations withhim.
Dr. Dean (31:17):
hmm.
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (31:18):
A couple of jokes and I get mad at them
sometimes and like How dare you?
How dare you leave?
and then, yeah, I make a coupleof jokes cause he had a really
dark sense of humor and I have areally dark sense of humor, so I
make inappropriate jokes whenit's just myself and talking to
him.
Dr. Dean (31:37):
Yeah.
saw on a, it was some, I don'tknow, a Facebook thing.
this person had ashes put in fortheir sibling and it said, it's
really dark in here.
They had actually had thatengraved on there.
I was like, that's so clever.
I Are there any other memoriesthat you did want to share?
Jillian Prouse (31:54):
Him becoming a dad was a pretty special one.
Dr. Dean (31:57):
Mm hmm.
Jillian Prouse (31:57):
again, it's I've talked to since he died past
girlfriends, his high schoolsweetheart, she's very lovely.
She even said like they starteddating when they were 16 and she
was like, it's all he everwanted was a wife and kids to
take care of.
So when he finally did become adad, it was like a pretty big
moment.
(32:18):
Pretty special watching ithappen.
My wedding, I have really fondmemories of him at my wedding
and just a lot of really beforewhat I call the dark times.
So before she entered, just alot of really happy, easygoing,
moments in his backyard.
I remember there's a very famousCanadian band, The Tragically
(32:38):
Hip.
And the lead singer wasdiagnosed with a terminal brain
tumor and they went on this hugefarewell tour and they played
their last show and my parentsand my brother and a couple of
his really good buddies, we alllistened to it on an old FM
radio in the backyard, likearound a campfire and it was
(33:00):
like one of the best times
Dr. Dean (33:03):
Yeah.
Jillian Prouse (33:04):
and yeah,
Dr. Dean (33:06):
Yeah.
Sounds like he was a lovelyhuman being and I'm very sorry
for your loss.
Jillian Prouse (33:11):
Thank you.
Dr. Dean (33:12):
Thank you for sharing today.
Thank you so much for listening.
Our theme song was written byJoe Mylwood and Brian Dean, and
was performed by Joe Mylwood.
If you would like moreinformation on the Broken Pack,
go to our website, the brokenpack.com.
Be sure to sign up for ournewsletter, Wild Grief, to learn
about opportunities and receiveexclusive information and
(33:32):
grieving tips for subscribers.
Information on that, our socialmedia and on our guests can be
found in the show notes whereveryou get your podcasts.
Please follow, subscribe, andshare.
Thanks again.
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