Your Heart's Voice: Sibling Love, Intuition, & Loss: Renée / Robert

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Dean (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the Broken Pack, a podcast
focused on giving adultsurvivors of sibling loss, a
platform to share their storiesand to be heard.
Something that many sibling losssurvivors state that they never
have had.
Sibling loss is misunderstood.
The Broken Pack exists to changethat and to support survivors.

(00:32):
I'm your host, Dr.
Angela Dean.
In this episode, I spoke withauthor and grieving sibling loss
survivor, Renée Green Murphy,about losing her brother,
Robert, in a tragic automobileaccident.
We explore how she's honored himin her award winning children's
book, Your Heart's Voice.
This book is on intuition forchildren.

(00:53):
Renée's love for Robert and thecontinuing bond with him is
palpable in our conversation andin her work and in her
connection with her family.
Take a listen.
Before we get into theconversation, I was wondering

(01:14):
how you wanted to introduceyourself to our audience.

Renée Greene Murphy (01:17):
My name is Renée Green Murphy.
I am a mom.
I'm a sister.
I'm a wife and I'm now achildren's book author of a book
called,"Your Heart's Voice,"which I decided to write last
year after, my little brotherpassed away in a car accident in

(01:38):
New York.

Dr. Dean (01:39):
Thank you for that.
Before we talk about losingRobert and how you're doing,
what would you like the audienceto know about Robert?

there's so much I could tell you.
you.
know, He was, bright light.
Anyone who knew him, adored him.
We run into people all the timeto this day who they just stop
and they start crying when theystart talking about him.
They smile simultaneously asthey cry, which is real.

(02:08):
uh, It's a thing.
and it's because he touched themin a way where they are still,
mourning and and grieving insuch a profound way.
we're all just in a standstill.
Still, We still can't believethat it happened.
I know that there's a processwith grief.

(02:29):
I don't know what stage I'm at.
But, but I know that I'm still,not fully accepting.
And everyone I run into, theyalmost feel similar.
Whether it's clients, thecustomers that he had at the
Italian restaurant he worked at,or his preschool friends, or his
family, or, My children'steacher that I didn't even know

(02:52):
knew him and would sit at thebar and talk to him and her
mother and father It's just it'sastounding How many he touched
on such a deep deep deep levelAnd the commonality and
everything they say is how muchhe they just loved him And he
was like a magnet for joy andpeace and laughter and love

Dr. Dean (03:15):
Like a wonderful human being.
I think you had said at onepoint in our conversations
before this that he also had aonline video, this bartending,

Yeah, So it was called The Crazy Bartender.
It's here now, it's on YouTube.
He, during Covid, flew to Miami,Florida during the lockdown.
And one of the things Robertwas, very vocal about was his
freedom and everyone else'sfreedom.
They're not going to take itaway.

(03:48):
And so while we were locked downin New York, he got on a plane
and went to go see his bestfriend in Florida who lives in
Brickell, which is a beautifulcity of Miami, and Robert slept
on the couch for a year and shotThe Crazy Bartender, which is
his channel where he teacheseveryone, the public, how to

(04:10):
make his gourmet cocktails, hissignature gourmet cocktails that
he created from scratch and thathe made and sold in his Italian
restaurant that he worked at onLong Island.
So he made that commute back andforth weekly.

Dr. Dean (04:24):
oh

And I remember, in the thick of COVID,
us his family being like, whatare you doing?
This is crazy.
In the very beginning of COVIDwhen we didn't even know what
was really going on.
He didn't have a care in theworld, he followed the rules in
terms of you have to wear a maskon the plane and all of that,
but he wanted to live and he didwhat he loved which was, teach

(04:45):
others, to immerse himself inhis talents while being loyal to
his customers back in New York.
And that's why he would fly backevery single week.
I'm not even exaggerating.
He did that for first year.
And then the second year heended up getting an apartment,
his own apartment, and, liveddown there at SLX in Brickell.

(05:06):
And so if you go to the CrazyBartender channel on YouTube,
you'll see we uploaded about 52videos.
Some are behind scenes, but mostof them are his drinks.
He made, for instance, like theManhattan, he'd make it three
different ways.
He'd have three different to it,and that was of his signature
way.
But the rest are just all hisunique drinks.

(05:27):
A Fortunada is made after mymother, which is a chocolate
Godiva martini.
My mother's name is Fortunada.
Chitalian.
I know you and like the lemondrop, but like not the typical
drink you would get in a bar.
Everything was from scratch andhe really just took great pride
in his drinks.
He was, not just a mixologist.

(05:49):
He was an entertainer.
He was very, very, verytalented.
He was an actor.
He could do no wrong.
there were so many things hecould do.
He was the captain of a baseballsoftball team for years.
ball hit him in the eye once.
and lost some of his vision andstill went back and played the

(06:11):
game, years later.
He was just unbelievable.
I know that sometimes people,they speak so highly and so
positively of their loved ones,sometimes in a grandiose way,
but everything I'm saying is, isnot even an exaggeration.
He really was.
this way, And I could say thatas his older sister, I, have two

(06:33):
other siblings, there was fourof us.
Robert was the baby.
He was, Just so special and helooked at life in such a special
way that the three of us didn'treally look at life as,

Dr. Dean (06:44):
Yeah.

He was just much friendlier and happier than
we than we were

Dr. Dean (06:50):
Mm.
How much older than him wereyou?

I'm I'm eight years older and the oldest
is my brother Ryan who is 10years older Robert was 10 years
younger than him.
And then sister is, three yearsyounger than me.
so five years, she was threeyears older than him.

Dr. Dean (07:16):
Mm hmm.

Robert was named my dad.
So he was the junior.
He was an he was a, he was a,they weren't planning on having
a fourth, Let us put it, let us,let's put it that way.
Because Ryan was ten at thetime.
I remember when my, when we,it's, it's so crazy out there.
We actually told this story.
I wish I had the picture.

(07:38):
It's downstairs.
we have a photo, which I'll sendit to you.
It's the last photo we took as afamily.
And it was in April.
He passed away in May.
We were sitting at my sister'skitchen table.
It was her son's birthday.
And my mother just said, Oh,intuitively.
Someone take a picture.
I have all my four kids togetherat the same time.

(07:59):
And so That photo is the photowe use all the time in regard to
Robert because it's the lastpicture of us and the most
recent, before the accident.
And at that, at that table,moments before my mom said that,
actually I don't know if it wasbefore or after, we talked about
this moment that I'm about toshare with you, which was the
day we found out he was born.

(08:21):
how crazy that we just likerandomly, and I remember getting
off the bus and my mom was likewaiting for us and she said we
have an announcement and I thinkwe were waiting for my dad to
get home from work.
He's a New York City firefighterand a fire marshal for 30 years.
And at the time, he was aFirefighter, I think, just going
to be promoted and, Ryan was atthe table and Casey and me we

(08:42):
went around the table and we hadto guess what the surprise was.
And Ryan thought it was a dogand I was like, no, I thought it
food.
I don't know.
Don't ask.
And my sister was like crying,because she was the baby.
And we were laughing and thenthere's a photo of us.
At the table and we're allcracking up laughing the same

(09:03):
day where we took the picture ofus and we're cracking up and
like crying like we're likeDrinking but like laughing so
hysterically because it's sofunny and looking at us like
thanks And that was the lastpicture we took right after
that.
We're all smiling at the camera,but that all happened like in
the same Afternoon, so Iremember vividly when they told
us I was so excited.

(09:24):
He was like the little baby Iwould like with diapers and we
would dress him up and hide himin the laundry And

Dr. Dean (09:31):
As an older sibling would do, I imagine.

born with a collapsed lung.
So he was a miracle baby I don'tknow if I told you this the
first time we talked My dad was,in, as I said, in the city.
he was, Robert was born out hereon Long Island where we live,
but he was born with a collapsedlung and they had to rush him to
the city.
I think near Presbyterian, Idon't remember which hospital,
but like the best one forchildren's.

(09:55):
I think it's New YorkPresbyterian.
and, He had a 5 percent chanceof living.
he was the sickest baby in thehospital, my dad said, and my
dad stayed with him for weeks.
And my mom was on Long Island,they had to take him away.
And, had just given birth andthen, healed and had to come
home, but my dad stayed with himin the city.

(10:16):
And then my dad always tells thestory that On Good Friday, we're
Catholic.
my grandma Mary, which is mymom's mom, her name is Angel
Marie.
She, told my dad,

Dr. Dean (10:32):
That's okay.
Take your time.

she said, go to church and pray.
It's Good Friday.
Miracles happen.
And he did.
My dad's very religious.
And when he got back to thehospital, he prayed like at the
local chapel and the doctorssaid to him, it's a miracle.

(11:02):
his lung is working.
And he went from 5 percentchance of living to, making a
full recovery.
And was released, I don't knowhow soon after, but, yeah.
he was perfectly healthy afterthat.
he even smoked, which I used toyell at him for, ironically
enough.

(11:22):
But he didn't have a care in theworld like that.
He wasn't, like I said, freedom.
He wasn't, he just lived life.
He just life.
he ate what he wanted, he, heenjoyed life.
He had a million friends.
you just.
Just lived life, enjoyed life,really, to the fullest.

Dr. Dean (11:42):
What was your relationship like with him?

Uh, like, a big sister, protective, friend.
My family would, go on vacationwith him.
And The last day I saw him wasin Miami because we were on
vacation.
we loved, like, where he lived.
He lived in the most beautifulhigh rise, building in, in
Brickell.

(12:05):
It was like gold.
It was gorgeous.
We had idea how beautiful itwas.
He didn't, rave about it.
he wasn't, about it.
he would just say it's, nice.
And, we no idea how nice it wasuntil we got there.
We wed The February before hepassed with my older brother,
thank God, Cause I still havevideos of like, of taking the
video around the apartmentbecause I couldn't believe how

(12:26):
gorgeous it was.
the elevator right to his roomhis own And then when you walked
in, he had this beautifulbalcony, but there were three
balconies.
His roommate had his ownbalcony, Robert had his.
it was February, the Christmastree was still up.
That was his roommate's doing,but it was just like, beautiful.
Everything was decorated.
It was pristine.
Robert was not a neat freak.

(12:47):
And the whole place was like,you couldn't see one morsel of,
lint.
And the bathroom.
And I just remember, videotapingbeing like, Who cleaned this
place?
who did this?
he never even made his bed athome.
And I was like, I need to showmom.
And and I was like, taping Andhe's I did.
And he's just laughing.
Cause I guess the roommate waslike, I hope he doesn't see

(13:08):
this, but like a little OCD withkeeping things clean.
But that's how he was.
He like, did it for hisroommate.
You know what I mean?
When really, was not in hischaracter to be like that.
At

Dr. Dean (13:17):
he didn't do it for siblings or his parents.
Yeah.

No, my mom would do that.
but, Ryan came to that trip.
That was February.
And then, we were just in, inshock.
We went back the next year inFebruary again.
And then, and then we went backin, in April.
So I remember, again, I'm veryintuitive.
When when we came back from thatFebruary trip the second time,
we were like laying out at thepool, and I have a picture of

(13:42):
him in the pool with my kids,and Robert didn't even swim, but
of course he went in for them.
He's like them on his arms.
it's a beautiful pool at hisapartment, and it's in their
bedrooms.
but I remember leaving that tripand saying to my husband, we
gotta go back.
And he was like, we just spentlot of money.
And I was like, but we have togo back.
it's just so peaceful andbeautiful there.
we'll just stay at Robert's thewhole time, not like sleep

(14:03):
there, but instead of being atthe hotel and staying there,
we'll just stay in the city, goto Roberts every day.
And, meanwhile, my brother wasworking in Long Island.
He wasn't even, never worked inMiami.
He just shot the video and wouldfly back.
And at this he was working attwo different places on Long
Island.
He left that job that he wasworking at for 11 years.
And he ended up working on.
In the Hamptons and then inanother town.

(14:24):
So he had two jobs.
He was driving a lot, which wasalso making us nervous.
And, I just, something told me,I said to him, we gotta go back.
And he's Like a month later, wewere just there, and I was like,
yeah, we have to go back, and wedid.
And, Robert at first wasn'tgoing, and I remember my husband
was like, my bro, my husband waslike, best friends with Robert.
And I remember my husband textedme, a couple days before, and he
was like, Robert's not gonna bethere, and I was like, what?

(14:45):
And I texted him, and I waslike, Robert, we're getting on a
plane, what do you mean you'renot gonna be there?
And he's like, I have to work,and I was like, you have to be
there.
And then, a minute later, hetexted me back, okay, I'll be
there.
that's just how he

Dr. Dean (14:56):
Mm

He just made things happen, he was so
flexible, so easy, he was thekind of friend that just dropped
things for his friends to bethere to do it, he was the easy
going, laid back opposite ofmost would say.
and he did, he flew there justfor us, and we spent a couple
days with him.
eating all around Miami.
He had a bucket list with hisbest friend Dave that I

(15:20):
initially talked about when hefirst moved there of visiting
the top 100 restaurants inMiami.
his goal.
And they got to 80 before hepassed.

Dr. Dean (15:29):
hmm.
Mm hmm.

would photograph and videotape every
single restaurant and everymeal.
all over his Instagram, it's,you could go to it right now,
Rob Green on Instagram.
and it's, it was still food,most of it.
a lot, some of it's like musicand baseball and softball and
politics, but most of it iscapturing all those great
restaurants.

(15:50):
So when we go visit him, we'd goto the restaurants, and then
we'd just chill with him.
When I went back that secondtime, that was the last day I
saw him.
I remember he left before us, sowe were like spending the day at
his pool, some man like won,Again, it was very nice where he
lived and some man won twomillion dollars on Bitcoin.
He was like drunken in the pool.

(16:11):
That's how I know that.
And he was like announcing it.
And he looked at us, my familyand my brother, and he was like,
drinks on me, anything you want.
And was like buying us lunch andRobert, wasn't even fazed, was
like laying there eating hischicken fingers, drinking a
drink.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Not like fazed, just rememberlooking over at him and just
like thinking wow, he's just sojust so chill.

(16:34):
like he doesn't get like easilyexcited.
And, he was like talking to mydad on the phone about like my
dad picking him up from theairport.
And, we left soon after that.
So we had to say goodbye to him.
I, Kate downstairs and I huggedhim and I said, I love you.
So it wasn't the last time Ispoke to him, but it was the
last time I saw him.
And I, I, to this day, I havedreams of him and he's like

(16:57):
always hugging in my dreams.
And I feel like it's because ofthat last day I saw him.
I distinctly remember, thefeeling of hugging him that day.
and, and so I have these dreamsand, and he's in them and he'll
hug me it's that same feeling.
You know how you rememberfeelings in life?
know, like a scent, like your,your five senses, bring up the

(17:18):
memory, but it's oh, brings backa feeling.
I I always remember that feelingof when I I was hug him and say,
I love you, be safe.

Dr. Dean (17:27):
Are you able to draw on that when you need to?

I mean, I, I do.
And then I, and then I breakdown and cry and I, and I think
about how much I miss him andthen I'm not gonna be able to
hug him again.
But, I, I am grateful that I,that I, that, I did, some people
don't have that opportunity.

(17:50):
They're not speaking, right?

Dr. Dean (17:53):
Right.

interviewed a lot of people and, and you've
heard so many stories, butsometimes you don't get to, you
could have a good relationship,but maybe you didn't get to be
able to, leave off on a goodnote on some level and I, I had
that, even though I didn't knowthat would be the last time I
was able to hug him and say Ilove you.

Dr. Dean (18:11):
Mm hmm.

and as the last time I saw him, I spoke to
him on the night that he passedthrough text.
It was actually the last personI texted.
but I'll always remember thelast day I saw him and I, I do,
I value that and I, I do hold onto that.
I'm grateful for that.

Dr. Dean (18:32):
Do you want to share about losing Robert?

what it feels like, it it feels and it
feels like, being punched in thestomach and in the heart.
It feels like a piece of you isripped out and you have to just
get up and, keep going.
there's, there's okay days,mixed with.

(18:57):
Harder days mixed with momentsof what I find to be laughter
now.
And I do try to, find somethingto be, grateful for, whether
it's my son making me laugh or,my daughter's happy about
something.
Uh, to daughters.
I, try to, find one moment aday, that I can control, that I

(19:20):
can be lighter about and, andmaybe laugh about to balance the

Dr. Dean (19:27):
hmm.
Mm hmm.

I do find that as days go on, that's like
a strategy I'm using,

Dr. Dean (19:36):
Yeah.
It sounds like it's a helpfulone to find that balance because
Unfortunately, grief is amarathon, without an ending.

especially because happy.
again, I don't know what it'slike to lose somebody who was
depressed or, hated life or,and, and I'm not wanting to
compare death or grief.
I know what it's like to losesomebody who absolutely loved
life and wanted to And, insteadof looking at.
Life now, like I hate it, I tryto mimic on some level even if

(20:11):
it's 1 percent And remind myselfof how much he loved life and
lived life to the fullest Andthat that is what life is meant
to be for is to lived not Youknow, curled up in a ball,
dying, and hating, and full ofconstant negativity.

(20:32):
And I think that's, such a hardbattle, That's such, a hard
struggle.
because it's, it's easier to,look at life that way when
you're so crushed and hurt.

Dr. Dean (20:44):
How long has it been since you lost him?

20 months.
I try not to look at, thetimeline.
I get very anxious.
There's some things I can't do.
Counting down that is hard forme, and he's great.
Those are two things I can't do.
I could talk about him.
I could write about him in mybook.
I could, I could be interviewed.

(21:07):
I, I've been interviewed a bunchof times by my local paper.
I, I could be, like, interviewedand stopped in the middle of a
store and talk to completestrangers and and cry and, smile
about Robert, but those twothings I can't do.
The timeline and the grave.

Dr. Dean (21:22):
Mm hmm.
When I think, and I've talkedabout this before and posted
about it, this whole mathtimeline with grief, especially
when we're supposed to have thisperson in our lives for

I think that's one of the biggest things
with sibling loss.
And again, you know what that'slike.
Like You, you feel like yoursiblings are, they're cut from
the same cloth and they'resupposed to be with you during
this journey, right?
Even if your sibling might livein another state or, across the
country, they're usually similarin age.
And you expect them to be hereas opposed to grandparents and

(22:00):
parents who eventually, youknow, pass because they're 30
years older, right?
And so that's part of the shock,and also that he was the
youngest, as I mentioned.

Dr. Dean (22:12):
you also mentioned that you, You changed diapers
and you took care of him alittle bit too, so that older
sister role.
I wonder how that plays intoyour grief.

I was always looking out for him on
some level.
yeah.
I don't know why.
When that eye accident happened,my, my oldest was, she was only,
three, and I remember my husbandwas, in the backyard, in, in the
middle of, cementing anumbrella, he physically couldn't
move, and his brother was doingit with him, and I remember I
got the phone call from my mom,and I just grabbed my daughter

(22:46):
and put her in the car and racedto the hospital.
I was the first one there.
My father, who doesn't have acell phone to this day, which is
like the most aggravating thingin the world, I think he does it
on purpose at this point, waslike

Dr. Dean (22:57):
I get it.
My dad has one and doesn't turnit on.
Might as well not have it.
Mm hmm.
Mm

he had he had one, and it was like, I
don't know, he didn't use it,yeah, I guess it was like that,
and, so anyway, he was like inthe Bronx, and then raced back.
I don't know where my mom, mymom's the one that called me.
I guess she didn't have a car,and so she needed my dad.

(23:25):
I put my daughter in a strollerand she was in the hallway in
the emergency room while Robertwas in the room.
And, we waited for the plasticsurgeon and I'm the one that was
with him when that happened.
So yeah, he, I always kind oflike took him under my wing in
some way, it was like a balance,like you didn't, I didn't want
to be like too much like thatbecause, he was an adult.

Dr. Dean (23:48):
And he was your sibling, not your child.

Yeah.
Yeah.
So I used to call him B and Igot a tattoo, which I don't have
any.
see

Dr. Dean (23:57):
Yeah.
On your thumb.

uh, And I never thought I would get a
tattoo my whole life.
I'm not that, I'm not like that.
but, I used to call him B.
Shabil,

Dr. Dean (24:06):
to share why?

Um, my grandma, my, my dad's mom was
like very funny and would teachme some words in Italian taught
me that word.
And again, I don't know.
So if he, so I was probably likenine or 10 and he was a baby and
I would call him be should dealand he didn't know what it
meant.
And then as he got older, helike.

(24:33):
He found out either I told himor he asked and whatever I
remember his face was likebright red he was so embarrassed
and I and I Shortened it to beso pretty much, most of his life
after that I just called him Band no one kind of knew my dad
just thought it was because hewas the baby

Dr. Dean (24:56):
Clever.

And he every was because he was so
happy and everything was likethis is literally what he would
do That's why I got Beyond

Dr. Dean (25:05):
so like the thumbs up.

Yeah

Dr. Dean (25:07):
Yeah.
That's lovely.
what a way to stay connected tothat and also some humor in
there.
It sounds like he

Yeah, and like even if my kids do
something, like one's a dancerand the other is an actor and,
my son's always, just jumpingaround, If they could do
something, like I could just belike give them a thumbs up and I
feel like it's from me and him,because they know what it means.

Dr. Dean (25:29):
nice.
and so he died tragically in acar accident and that was not
that long ago.
Where do you think you are inyour grief now?
And I know that you've writtenthe book and we'll talk about
that, but where are you withyour grief

Um, I'm still not, I don't fully accept
it still.

Dr. Dean (25:51):
Mm

but I'm also not exactly where I was.
You know the first, I don'tknow, six months, kind of a
blur.
Those were obviously theheaviest, kind of like that
zombie,

Dr. Dean (26:07):
Right.

slash, you have a ton of bricks on your
back feeling.

Dr. Dean (26:12):
Mm

I'm

Dr. Dean (26:13):
Oh, that's a great way to describe that.

Yeah.
yeah, and I'm a mom of threeand, my kids are ten, at the
time, nine, six, and three, and,I couldn't, you know, like, lock
myself in my room.
or There were moments of that,but I had to, get up every day

(26:36):
and, the year that it happened,my son stayed home with me.
He's now in preschool two days aweek, but I wasn't ready to let
him go and I don't think he waseither, So he was with me every
day.
I spent a lot of days at thebeach.
I found the only thing, and Idon't like to use the word help,
because I feel like there's acomplete solution to help, Or a

(26:57):
positive result on some level,but I think what, assisted my,
grieving and, getting throughthe day was being able to go to
the beach, daily, to, meditate,and I felt most connected to him
there.
I don't know

Dr. Dean (27:14):
Do you,

but I did.

Dr. Dean (27:16):
I was gonna ask, do you think it's because of those
experiences you had in Miamiwith the beach

Well, ironically, Robert didn't like
the beach,

Dr. Dean (27:25):
Oh,

So again, being flexible and doing what
others wanted of him, to keeppeace and be, so laid back.
He would walk to the beach, takean Uber to where we were staying
in South Beach, because he livedin the city, and would be
walking on the beach with blacksneakers on, black, joggers, I

(27:49):
kid you not, pants, and a tshirt or like a tank top and
with a black backpack and wouldget to the beach with our like
beach chair and like he'd have abag of snacks and he'd lay there
and we'd be like take your shoesoff sometimes he had sandals but
he didn't like the feeling ofsand he didn't like the way it

(28:11):
felt and he'd be laying therelike eating his chips the
seagulls would come and attackhim steal his chips he'd just be
like cracking up he didn't knowhow to swim so he didn't go on
the beach but he would sit thereall day with us because we
would, my family are beachpeople, and we'd get like spicy
margaritas and we'd sit thereand I remember the last trip I

(28:34):
was listening to the Johnny Depptrial on my phone I was like
telling him all about it, I wasso obsessed with it.
And he was just like, justlistening and, We're just, I
mean he liked the sun, he wastan, but.
He didn't like the feeling ofthe sand, but, yeah, I, I don't
know.
There's, there's something aboutthe beach that, puts my mind at
ease, and feel immediatelygrounded, and the sound of the

(29:00):
water mixed with the smell,mixed with the feeling, my mind
doesn't feel as heavy there, andthat was before Robert.
I always loved the beach.
And then after I actually feelmore connected to him.
So yeah, could sit there andjust look out at the water and I
feel like he's with me.

(29:20):
I feel him in my house.
Sometimes I smell him, in myhouse, which I know are signs.
Cause I'm like really in tunewith all of that.
And I get the Cardinals and hesends me songs on the radio,
like all of that.
I've been to a million mediums,but the beach, I, I feel like
he's right there.
And During my grieving,especially in the beginning, I
was at the beach every singleday.

Dr. Dean (29:42):
Nice.
It sounds like too, and I thinkwe can shift into talking about
how the book has helped you, butalso you mentioned that you are
naturally intuitive and part ofgoing to see him feels like you
had to do this for, for somereason.
There was some intuition around,I need to go see him.

(30:05):
and your book, Your Heart'sVoice, which is beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that withme.
You're welcome.
is about intuition for kids.
So what would you like to sayabout that?

So my book, I'll show you guys the cover,
it's called Your Heart's Voice.
And if you notice Jade, the maincharacter, she's at the beach.
all the things on the coveractually

Dr. Dean (30:32):
Oh.

there on purpose.
but they all relate to Robert,spirituality and my process.
So you see there's a redcardinal and there's seagull
that was stealing his chips.
And on the, on sand, you seethere's seashells.
In the shape of a heart, the,the sun is setting, and the
heart here, which is supposed tosignify her intuition, it's the

(30:57):
color indigo, which is the colorof our sixth sense, and it's
our, our chakra, our third eye,and, it's going down to where
our heart is, and so the coveremulates intuition and my
grieving process, as a whole.
Jade is 11, which is also anangel number.

(31:19):
It means your angels are withyou, and she's also a mix
between my, a mix of all threeof my kids.
She has, dark brown hair, andtall like my oldest, and she has
green eyes like my second.
Child, Eden.
My oldest is Avery, and she'swearing green throughout the
story like my son, Sage.

(31:40):
So instead of having characters,I just wanted to mix them all
into one.
Everything has meaning.
Also, the turtle might, might Iadd, right after Robert passed
on my trip to the beach, therewas a turtle crossing the street
in the parking lot, and I'm nota big animal person.
I don't like dislike them, but Idon't, I'm not like obsessed
with animals, and I had to stop.
I didn't want anyone to run himover, and we Saved him and my

(32:04):
son called him Charlie.
We ended up to my dad and puthim in the backyard and fed him
strawberries.
And we gave my mom one job, mom,watch the turtle.
It's the turtle, mind you not,not a cat, a dog.
She had to just watch the turtleso we can get a big, I think we

(32:24):
were getting food, but we alsowanted to get something to put
him in so that he wouldn't leavethe backyard.
We were waiting for everyone toget home.
And she lost the turtle.
That was, about three weeksafter everything happened.
And my son names every animalCharlie, which is also my dad's
brother's name who died inVietnam, Charlie, ironically.

(32:46):
he doesn't know that, but he toois very intuitive.
but the story is about, it'sabout this little girl Jade who
learns to listen to her heart'svoice, which she finds out at
the end of the story is herintuition.
And uncle Robert who teachesher.
what that is.
So throughout the story, shelearns three lessons.

(33:07):
That's supposed to be me and myhusband.
one lesson is about cleaning up.
Another lesson is about eatingher vegetables.
And the third lesson is aboutputting her dad's pen away that
she used to draw an angel.
And the angel is for her uncle,and could see it's a boy angel.

(33:28):
so the book isn't about death,but it's, it, it's what I used
during my grieving process.
Here she is and she's thinkingabout, what is that voice in my
heart that I keep hearing?
have to find out.
The next day she goes to see hergrandma.
My children call my mom happy.

Dr. Dean (33:44):
Oh,

And when she runs in, she goes and sees
her uncle, that's him.

Dr. Dean (33:50):
Mm.

He wore

Dr. Dean (33:51):
the New York Mets.

Yeah, he loved the New York Yankees.
He was wearing that

Dr. Dean (33:55):
sorry.

What?

Dr. Dean (33:58):
I said the New York Mets, so I apologize.

Yankees.
Oh no, he's laughing

Dr. Dean (34:03):
I, I don't know anything about sports.

He wore that chain the night he passed.
He always had that on.

Dr. Dean (34:09):
hmm.

there's uh, that's that picture I told you
about, the last picture of us inApril.
That's, My siblings and myparents.
So the artist ended up paintingreal pictures of my family to
make the book that much morepersonal.
And this is giving her unclethe, the angel, which her
heart's voice told her to do.

(34:33):
And that this is when he tellsher that it's your intuition.
He laughs.
Robert was always laughing.
And, there's my dad

Dr. Dean (34:39):
Mm.

sitting behind Robert.
There's also a picture of mykids.
Those are my children.

Dr. Dean (34:47):
Nice.

And that's it.
That's me.

Dr. Dean (34:51):
Yeah.

yeah.
I wrote the book, as I said, sixmonths after he passed.
I came up with the concept in2017 after Eden was born, my
second child.
was like on the treadmill,thinking, talking to my husband,
saying, I have to do something.
I had stopped working as aschool counselor in Harlem, when
I gave birth to my first child.
It was too long of a commute togo back and forth.
And after my second child, I wasstarting to think about, what

(35:14):
else am I going to do?
I've been a stay at home momnow.
do something.
I want to, always wanted towrite a children's book.
And so I came up with theconcept then when I researched
that there were no children'sbooks written about your
intuition, what it means and howto use it.
There were teen books, and therewere adult books, there were
books written by psychologists,there were parenting books, but

(35:35):
there were no children's books,picture books, to show children,
because it's hard to come upwith the concept and visualize
it, and children need thatvisualization to learn, right?
That's why children's books soimportant.
And that's when I came up withthe concept, Jade, which means
the Jewel of the Heavens.
Her name was Divine back then,which is also a spiritual name.

(35:56):
And then I put it down, back toit, six months after the
accident.
Again, the beach, and I neededto channel my grief, and I
found, something told me, myheart's voice told me, to pick
up my manuscript and startwriting again.
And so I did.
I changed Divine to Jade, and Iadded Robert to the, as a main

(36:19):
character, and then I dedicatedthe

Dr. Dean (36:23):
Mm.

him.
And that's him.

Dr. Dean (36:25):
Beautiful.

the book is like two fold.
One, one piece of it is about mygrief, and it's very, very, very
spiritual, and way for my familyand I to honor Robert and his
legacy forever.
the other is I genuinely feellike your intuition is your God
given gift.
We all have it.
doesn't discriminate.
It's not just for children.
My book is also a gentlereminder for adults that this

(36:50):
is, something we all have.
And I think as we older, as thechaos ensues and life becomes
that much more demanding andchaotic, we, we were less clear.
And when we're less clear, welose that voice.
And my book is also a reminderfor adults, but it's for anyone
all over the world to tap intothat voice in your heart because

(37:14):
it's there to guide you, to helpyou in your path.
Whatever that may be, we makethe wrong choices a lot, a lot
to learn from them, but it alsocan keep us in like a dead end
and your intuition and yourconscience, your gut feeling,
whatever you want to call it, isthere to make life a little
easier, especially for childrennowadays.

(37:35):
They are subjected to so much onthe internet, things that their
can't even comprehend, andthere's a lot of following going
on, talking about things theydon't even know about just based
on YouTube alone, because theinternet is so vast, and it's so
easily accessible for them thatI, I wanted to write this book

(37:56):
to remind children that once youstart listening to your heart's
voice, and you make goodchoices, and you tap into your
independence, you immediatelyraise your self esteem.
You boost your self confidenceand your self worth.
That, to me, is One of the mostimportant things in life, is to
instill self confidence in ourchildren so that they become

(38:16):
self confident adults.
You don't really lose confidenceif you are a strong, self
confident child, right?
Whereas, on the flip, if youare, have low self esteem as a
child, that's like a lifelongjourney that you're trying to
navigate throughout It couldjust make life that much much
much more harder.
My, my book is also for thatpurpose, and my brother was very

(38:36):
confident and, I think he wouldwant that, he would want this
message shared, as many peopleas possible.
So right it's available onlineon Amazon, on Barnes Noble,
Google Play, iTunes, I'm in theprocess of transitioning, but
it's still going to be onlineand it's in like the local
school district where I in LongIsland as well as the public
libraries throughout LongIsland.

Dr. Dean (38:58):
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
I know when I read it, I was, Iwas in awe of how you took this
abstract concept that would bedifficult to explain to
children, and were able to makeit, I won't say simple, but in a
way that they could understandit.
And so thank you for that.
it also sounds like for yourgrief process, that it helped

(39:18):
you stay connected to Robert andhonor him in a way that

I'm going to the post office after to mail
five books out.
every time I

Dr. Dean (39:29):
huh.

mail my book out or I talk about my
book, it's, it's an immediatereminder.
I include my, my business cardin every book because it has my
QR code on Amazon, but I alsoinclude Robert's.
sorry.
and we had these made after thepast.
Again, this is him with one ofhis professional photos from
YouTube channel.

(39:51):
but on the back is his QR codeto his crazy bartender.
So they go in hand.
yeah, it's definitely areminder.
every day, my, my purpose rightnow.
And I remember talking to Robertabout his life purpose That last
day I saw him in Miami, took usto a cafe and ironically, it was

(40:13):
called friends.
He might have told story.
And the logo was the Friendslogo from the show.
And as we were there, there's apicture of Robert with my
daughters and he's holding theirhand.
Something told me to take apicture of it.
My, husband's friend actuallyput wings on his back and got it
painted because it's such abeautiful picture of him with my
daughters.

(40:33):
But he's walking us to theFriends Cafe.
And I remember saying to him, isthis like really affiliated with
Friends?
Cause it's the same logo of thecoffee cup.
And he crapped up laughing andsaid, No, this is like a Cuban
restaurant.
It's totally illegal what theydid, but it's also genius.
And, and it was, But I rememberI sat there across the table and
had a 20 minute conversationwith him about life, his next

(40:55):
steps.
All of these things I don'tthink just happened or a
coincidence,

Dr. Dean (41:00):
huh.
Of course not.

and we were talking about his purpose, and
so my purpose right now I thinkis to get my book into as many
hands.
as possible.

Dr. Dean (41:10):
Uh

Um, and then maybe write two more
because everything in my lifealways happens in three, so I'll
probably have two more sequels.

Dr. Dean (41:18):
I look forward to those.
Are there other things that youwant to share about grief or
loss or sibling lossspecifically?

I heard a quote from, um, The actor that
was married to Angelina Jolie.
He's a good actor.
it'll come to me, but, he, saidsomething like once you lose a
loved one, the rest of yourlife, you equally, feel, Sadness

(41:49):
coupled with joy, and you, makethat sacrifice for the rest of
your lives.

Dr. Dean (41:55):
Wait, I know this because I just heard this quote
the other day.
It was, was it Billy BobThornton?
It was, I think, yes.

And

Dr. Dean (42:05):
Yeah, I, I recently saw that.
It is true.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Mm

And, then he said, and you're willing to
make that sacrifice.
Meaning, I just felt happy,right?
We, we got the house we wantedto move into or anything, right?
You, your, daughter just did sowell on this test or, your son
got the team he wanted to be apart of.
You, as soon as you feel thatlittle bit of joy, as soon as

(42:31):
you feel that feeling, you'reimmediately met with equal
sadness.
And that equal sadness is yourway of also honoring and
remembering and loving them,right?
right?
And that is now your life andthat I've accepted more than him

(42:53):
not being here.
I've I've accepted that reality.

Dr. Dean (42:56):
Right.
I think acceptance and grief isa difficult thing because a lot
of times people think acceptancemeans approval and it doesn't,
they're not the same word,right?
And so learning to live with ourgrief

Yeah.
I don't like the word

Dr. Dean (43:11):
it sounds like you're just going.

Yeah.
What do

Dr. Dean (43:15):
Yeah, I use acceptance, but that's because I
have a different view on that.
But I think for a lot of people,it's a difficult word.
I think, yeah, coping andlearning to live with, with the
loss and simultaneously, how canwe experience loving and living

(43:35):
in joy while also knowing thatgrief has changed us and changed
how we live.

And I remember early on, when, when
you're in that the tons ofbricks on your back, walking
around like an empty zombiefeeling.
People don't know what to say.
Whether it's people who havelost someone or not, And I, I
mentioned to you before, youshould never compare grief, but
sometimes you're met with peoplewho say, they, they had lost
their grandmother who was like99 or and, and in your mind

(44:06):
you're thinking, that's yourpath and that's, and that's
horrible because Losing someoneis horrible.
But in your mind, you'rethinking, I just lost my 33 year
old brother who, who didn'teven, who only lived a quarter
of his life, it's hard, and youdon't want to minimize anybody
else's, but then you find thatpeople don't know what to say.
And there's also that balance ofthem saying the wrong thing

(44:30):
versus not saying enough versusnot saying anything.
maybe sugarcoating it or beinginsensitive,

Dr. Dean (44:37):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm

I find that saying something is better than
nothing.
I also never appreciated whenpeople would say moving on, or
words like, helped, this helpedyou, or moving on, moving
forward.
those things, to me, Make mefeel like I'm leaving my brother

(44:59):
in the past

Dr. Dean (45:01):
moving on, definitely I agree with you on that,
because it's moving on quiteliterally means you're, you are
leaving something, yeah,

yeah, and

Dr. Dean (45:11):
I like to say moving forward because that's taking
that person with us, thatmovement and moving with grief.
I don't know about the helpthough, like I think you and I
disagree on that one a littlebit,

what, when

Dr. Dean (45:24):
hear what you're saying.
about what's helped you.
I think, I don't, I have adifferent viewpoint on that, but
that's, thank you for sharingthat in, in your mind that, that
is also moving on, leaving himin the past.

yeah, Cause I feel like there's like a
finite end to help, and I feellike it's a, it's a evolving
process of, healing.
which I'll never be healed from.
So again, no like end resultthere, I can help you, study for
a test.
I can help you write a book.
I can help you, bring thegroceries inside, right?

(46:02):
And then it's like it'sfinished, that finite, like end
result.
I don't and I think that's why Istruggle with that word.
But

Dr. Dean (46:11):
I hear that.
I think of it too as Ifsomeone's had a leg amputated
or, or something, and grief isoften compared to that, they
might still need help tofunction, like with a, a
wheelchair or a prosthetic orsomething.
And so I think of it in thatway, like what's helping you

(46:32):
live despite this enormous

yeah.
Assisting.

Dr. Dean (46:35):
healing because healing isn't something we can
do.
Mm hmm.
Mm

I also remember a quote in the
beginning where someone said atsome point you, so you're always
going to feel this tremendouspain and sadness and,heaviness,
But what happens over time.
your heart starts to make room,and it grows, and it makes room
for joy again, for happinessagain, for laughter again.

(47:03):
So this pain and sadness andthis heaviness doesn't go away,
That's the moving on that wedon't agree with.
You just make room for thepositivity again as time goes
on.
And that I think also issynonymous with, what, Billy Bob
Thornton was saying And somevisual, took a visual to

Dr. Dean (47:24):
Yeah.

saying.

Dr. Dean (47:25):
I like that.
I know we're almost out of time,but I wanted to check in and see
what favorite memories youwanted to share about Robert.

Robert loved Pearl Jam.
If you go to his Instagram,you'll see he was quoting Pearl
Jam.
Days up until this happened,Given To Fly was one of them.
And we ended up putting that ona plaque that we made that we
engraved, in a bench that wegave to my parents.

(47:54):
he was, As I said, somebody whojust really loved life, I loved
my kids, loved children,sometimes that doesn't happen,
especially with men, if they'renot your own children.
But,

Dr. Dean (48:06):
Mm-Hmm?

loved, his nieces and nephews, was always
posting about them on hisFacebook.
Just, loved his family, lovedhis friends, had the same
friends from preschool.
Again, not something you can sayoften about people, and that.
The same unit, and then evolvedand met more friends, but didn't
let go of, that foundation.

(48:30):
he loved good food, he lovedgood drinks.
He loved sports.
He loved the New York Yankees.
He loved the, Jets, even thoughhe hated them at the same time.
and never understood He'd belike cursing at the TV screen,
saying how much they sucked.
but would watch them, and it wasnew.
Every single player and everystat, with any sport, was very,

(48:53):
very much into sports.
he was an actor earlier in life.
His professor and the directorof the theater program came to
the way.
And that was from 15 yearsprior.
And I remember the professorsaying to me, I learned more
from him as an actor than hecould have ever learned from me.
I'll never forget those peoplethat I met that day because they

(49:14):
all came through me and myfamily and my parents to get to
Robert and they just all toldus.
500 people at his wake, they alltold us a personal story of how
he touched them.
And I remember those stories,and we ended up creating a
website, robgreen.
com, so that people can sharetheir stories online, and you

(49:35):
can go online and read about howthese stories were so touching,
and it's like an online, onlinejournal.
You can write, and you don'twant to write, you can just
read, but the stories were neverending.
The line was wrapped around thefuneral home for an hour and a
half, and, I, I forgot some ofthem because we were in that
blackout zone, but, I remember alot.
And I remember how generous hewas, people telling me he gave

(49:57):
them brand new cleats out of histrunk that, he had just bought
and they're like, I'm going tokeep it in the box.
Nike cleats.
And another guy said, I saw himat the bar and he was counting
his money and he said, theydon't pay you enough here.
And he like grabbed like a 20and shoved it down my shirt.
And guy was like, I, I rememberlooking for him because all the

(50:19):
wait staff would meet at oneplace when they all got off
their shift and all thehospitality people and they all
would flock to Robert.
He'd be in the back doing likemagic tricks they were like, who
is this guy?
And he's I'm Rob Green.
the greatest bartender you'llever meet.
And he wasn't like cocky.
He was very confident, as I saidearlier, but not in an arrogant.

Dr. Dean (50:40):
Mm-Hmm.

way.
People would just flock to him.
Like I said, he was a magnet andpeople that came to the wake
were like, I had just met himthree months ago and I love this
guy.
And there were people that knewhim for 20 years, 30 years and
five months and they werebawling.
I will remember how many peoplehe touched and I'll remember all
of it.
I have way more good.
I never fought with Robert.

(51:03):
He'd fight with his siblings.
Again, something you can't saywith a family four or six.
we, we weren't perfect, but wefought the other three.
Nobody

Dr. Dean (51:14):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for

fond memories.
Yeah.
And, my dad even takes my bookand, gives it to the mailman.
And he, I think he thinks he'slike my, my manager or
something.
to just get it into the publicjust as much as me.
Yeah.

Dr. Dean (51:30):
Yeah.
I will put links to all of thatin the show notes.
Yeah.
And thank you.
And I look forward to staying intouch.

Thank you.
Thanks so much.
Take care.

Dr. Dean (51:42):
Thank you so much for listening.
Our theme song was written byJoe Mylwood and Brian Dean, and
was performed by Joe Mylwood.
If you would like moreinformation on the Broken Pack,
go to our website, the brokenpack.com.
Be sure to sign up for ournewsletter, Wild Grief, to learn
about opportunities and receiveexclusive information and
grieving tips for subscribers.

(52:02):
Information on that, our socialmedia and on our guests can be
found in the show notes whereveryou get your podcasts.
Please like, follow, subscribe,and share.
Thanks again.

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Your Heart's Voice: Sibling Love, Intuition, & Loss: Renée / Robert

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