May 29, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode, Steve and Mike discuss the declining state of late night talk shows. They cover current hosts on major networks like Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, and Stephen Colbert, as well as lesser-known and streaming personalities such as Taylor Tomlinson and John Mulaney. The brothers reminisce about iconic hosts like Johnny Carson and David Letterman, noting how today's shows lack the same cultural impact. They highlight the generational disconnect and how younger audiences consume media differently, favoring platforms like YouTube and podcasts over traditional TV formats. The episode also touches on financial viability and the evolving landscape of media consumption.
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Episode Transcript
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Steve (00:21):
Hey, hey, it's the brothers.
How, again, coming to you withour second episode we've got a
lot to talk about today and myname is Steve and this is my
brother, Mike.
Mike.
Mike.
I keep it simple.
Mike (00:34):
I keep it simple.
Steve (00:37):
Today we're gonna be talking a little bit about talk
shows, and frankly, we're gonnatalk about the late night talk
shows and why.
They suck when they used to notsuck.
Mike (00:46):
I, I thought we were gonna say, they're in a state of
decline, but you really nettedit out there.
Steve (00:51):
Yeah.
State of decline suck.
Potato.
Potato.
Mike (00:56):
Well, I thought this was a pretty interesting topic and I
know you have some things youwant to get across here at the
beginning.
I'll follow your lead here, butI first, quite frankly, had to
go look up.
Who is still doing this and whatformat is it and where is it
happening?
Steve (01:14):
Yes.
You what?
You basically found the threenetworks who I guess have been
doing it for a long time, andthen I've heard of'em.
Yes.
Yeah.
There's a, yeah.
Some people still know thenetworks.
They do still exist, even thoughthey're, they're, they seem to
be, become, becoming lessimportant all the time.
But then you got these offshootstoo with all the several cable
channels and all the streamingservices.
Everybody's got a.
(01:34):
Got a talk show.
Not that, not that they'regetting a whole lot of read out
of it, but they're there.
Mike (01:40):
Well, I, I wonder who is really the audience anymore, and
we'll get into that, I'm sure.
But yeah, of course.
I, when I did my, I already knewabout the networks, believe it
or not, but I will tell you, Iam the anti broadcast watcher if
it's on broadcast tv.
I just assume it sucks.
(02:02):
To be honest with you,
Steve (02:03):
you're not alone.
I think a lot of people see itthe same way, and even as a,
even as an old boomer likemyself, I thought that I would
never be able to get used tothat.
But I have even, I don't don'tspend a whole lot of time with
the networks anymore, and Inever watched late night talk
anymore, even though I did for awhile.
And I, I went back and revisiteda little bit this past week to
(02:24):
familiar.
Rise myself.
And yes, it does still suck asit did a few years ago, but
there's, it's,
Mike (02:30):
it, well it's kind of funny you say that.
So I look at like late nighttalk show,'cause it's one, I,
I'm not quite a boomer, but I,I'm getting older and, I, I
still work for 11, so how latedo I wanna stay up and, and put
time into this?
And when I do, I look at what'sout there and I'm like, wow,
these guys are still doing it.
They're my age,
Steve (02:49):
yeah.
Well, you and I, we, we we'reright on the line there.
I'm the, I'm the last year ofthe Boomers and you are like
the, the first couple of yearsof the Gen Xers, right?
Mike (02:57):
Yeah.
Yep.
That's correct.
Happy to be, I guess it, I couldbe a boomer.
Steve (03:02):
Oh, I tell you what, I love you.
Whenever, whenever, wheneversomebody 30 sarcastically calls
me a boomer, I just say thankyou very much.
Hey, goodness, I,
Mike (03:11):
usually like somebody 30 or younger calls people, boomer,
they're wrong.
'cause it's a Gen Xer.
Yeah.
So how do you want to starthere?
'cause I was thinking it mightbe interesting just to kinda
list the more popular ones outthere.
Steve (03:27):
Well, yeah, you got the big three, which are the
networks.
With with Jimmy Fallon on NBCand Jimmy Kimmel on a b, C, and
I hate even saying his name,Stephen Colbert on CBS.
Mike (03:39):
Yeah, so I, I have some more comments about that later,
but I, my research came up witha couple of, couple of ones that
I.
I kind of knew her there, butnever vested any time in
whatsoever.
And quite frankly, maybe they'renot doing anymore.
But then you have the late latershows, so Yeah.
After shows.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's like the, there's likeTaylor Tomlinson.
I don't know anything about thatone.
(04:00):
Yeah.
Steve (04:01):
I, I have not watched her.
I, I've seen a, I've seen acouple of her teasers, so to
speak, and, and she seems funny.
I, I've, somebody told me thatshe was very funny.
She does stand up, I think, butI guess a lot of'em do Anyway,
but I have not watched the showyet.
I understand it does pretty wellfor a network show.
Mike (04:19):
Yeah.
And then you're, I mean, that'sa very certain audience that's
up that late, right.
You either have like differentwork schedules or maybe, I can't
imagine.
It's gotta be a younger audiencefor that one because, that's the
only people that stay up thatlate to have regular schedules.
Steve (04:33):
Yeah.
And do they stay up that lateor, or do they just stream it
the next day or later on?
Mike (04:36):
Well, so that's a good point.
'cause everything can bestreamed now.
I was kind of looking at it froma broadcast standpoint, right?
Yeah.
Because a lot.
It's when I do the SaturdayNight Live thing, I feel like I
kind of missed it if I didn'twatch it live.
Even though we can talk aboutthe decline of that in another
show.
Oh, we will.
The other one so Seth Meyers, Ithink has one on NBC.
Steve (04:56):
Yeah, he's after Fallon and he's been doing it quite a
while too.
And he, and he's another SNLalumnus, like Fallon liked him
on Saturday Night Live.
Okay.
Liked Fallon on Saturday NightLive.
Okay.
Do not care for either one of'emmuch as talk show hosts.
Mike (05:10):
I think would you think that and I, I'm trying to think
of the order here.
I think if we looked at just thebroadcast stuff for now that we
just talked about and you do therankings, I think Jimmy Kimmel's
the top one, isn't he?
Steve (05:23):
Is he?
Mike (05:24):
I think so.
I think I, I'm pretty sure, Idon't know if it's Jimmy Fallon
or Jimmy Kimmel.
I think it's Kimmel, but I needto, if I had to take a shot in
the dark,
Steve (05:31):
I would've guessed Fallon.
But you could be right.
Mike (05:34):
Yeah, me too.
He seems more likable.
Yeah.
Steve (05:37):
Yeah, he, and he's less, he's less offensive.
Mike (05:40):
And he's the youngest.
Steve (05:41):
Yeah.
And he doesn't really eventhough people would like him to,
he doesn't really take sides.
Mm-hmm.
Mike (05:48):
That's a good point.
Yeah.
Colbert, I guess, fell to thethird out of the broadcast TV
slot, night slot that's in,
Steve (05:55):
if there.
If there's any, if there's anyGod in Heaven, he'll continue to
fall no matter how.
If, if the, if the list is sixlong, he'll fall all the way to
45.
Mike (06:05):
Did he come from The Daily show, the Roven Reporter or
something like that?
Steve (06:09):
Yeah.
And was some show
Mike (06:10):
like that?
Steve (06:11):
Yeah.
The, the Comedy Central Show.
Mike (06:14):
Yeah, the, that.
I thought it was a daily show.
I think it was.
Steve (06:17):
Yeah.
Didn't like him there, don'tlike him.
Now, I, the guy is, the guy is,is, is hateful and he's unfunny
and he, he's not, he doesn'thave any talent and, and he's
just a stick in the mud.
I, I, I can't stand even seeinghim.
Mike (06:32):
Well, I guess we never, I don't feel too strong.
Got it.
Yeah, you're being verynebulous.
I can't quite get where you'resaying.
Steve (06:44):
He's, he's the one that, he's the one I would go to last,
if at all.
Mike (06:49):
Okay.
Do well.
Okay.
It's a good question.
Do you go to any of them?
Do you stream any of'em the nextday?
Steve (06:54):
I, it's been a while.
Here in the last week I have, Ihave watched little snippets
here and there to prepare forthis, but no, as a rule, no.
Mike (07:02):
I mean, I think Jimmy Fallon he's kind of a
multi-talented guy, and maybe heinserts himself too much into
the talent side of it.
But you know, like when he doeslike the the wrapping thing and,
he hold, he, he has a goodrelationship with who's the
goodwill hunting guy.
Matt Damon.
Yeah.
And they do that kind of stuffback.
Actually, that's Kimmel, I'mwrong.
(07:23):
That's Kimmel.
Steve (07:24):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah,
Mike (07:25):
yeah.
Yeah.
Because Kimmel's always
Steve (07:26):
bumping Matt Damon.
Mike (07:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (07:28):
It's ongoing thing.
Yeah.
Mike (07:30):
The, the little stuff like that that they do back and forth
and, and, and it have thoseregular people that they fit
well with.
And I think Fallon's probablymore a a Justin Timberlake or
something like that for asinging thing is Fallon loves to
sing.
Steve (07:42):
Yeah.
Mike (07:43):
And
Steve (07:43):
I give him a little credit.
He's, he's talented.
He's he can sing and play alittle bit.
Mike (07:47):
Yeah, he's pretty, he's pretty good with that.
But when he does stuff likethat, I'll go, I'll go look.
I think he did Fallon didsomething I thought was kind of
cool.
Did you see the little clip whenhe had, I think it was Green
Day.
And they were in the subway andit was just a band, I think they
were in disguise and it wasGreen Day with Fallon singing
with'em, and everybody justthought they were just some,
(08:07):
whatever band in Subway in NewYork, which was kind of funny.
Steve (08:11):
Yeah, I could see where that would be kind of funny.
Although if I'd known from atease beforehand that the Green
Day was gonna be on, thatwould've been another reason why
I wouldn't have watched.
That's just me.
Mike (08:22):
That's a whole nother thing.
So I I, what was it?
What, what's the festival that,the rock festival that's gone on
for
Steve (08:31):
Lollapalooza, maybe.
Mike (08:32):
Lollapalooza.
I thank you.
That's what It's okay.
Lalapalooza.
And that was the.
Yeah, that was actually Jane'sAddiction Farewell Tour, and he
put on this thing calledLollapalooza and brought bands
with him on their Fair farewelltour.
And then he, it became a thinghe couldn't get out of.
They wanted to do it every year.
Steve (08:51):
Oh, okay.
I wasn't, it was interesting.
Mike (08:53):
That's a whole nother thing, but that, that's where I
saw Green Day was kind of forcedin by the label.
Hey, you guys need to put theseguys on,
Steve (09:00):
huh?
Yeah, I was, I've never been aGreen Day guy.
But that's another, anotherthing.
Mike (09:04):
So what about these streaming ones?
There's the streaming ones, likeyou said from, besides broadcast
and I looked up a few of those.
The main one being what you justsaid, where Colbert came from
was a daily show with John
Steve (09:18):
Stewart, the Daily show.
Yeah, that's that's John Stewarttoo, right?
Is he back on there now?
Mike (09:21):
He does it on Mondays only.
What's the greatest job in theworld?
Steve (09:24):
Oh yeah, he's got a, he's got a banker's gig.
Okay.
Better than, I'll
Mike (09:28):
tell you, I started watching it again recently and
it's, I know it's very liberaland left, but man, it is funny
and especially Stewart, he'shilarious.
Steve (09:38):
Yeah.
And that's the thing too.
I don't mind, I don't mindlaughing.
I.
It either side.
I mean, you know where I comedown on that.
I'm not gonna get into that.
Yeah.
But I, I'll laugh at either sideand that's all I want from these
shows.
I want them to be fair andbalanced and poke at everybody
and do it playfully, tongue incheek.
Okay.
But a little playfully.
Not with, not with a mean spiritor trying to cram down some kind
(09:58):
of message down your throat.
Mike (10:00):
Yeah.
Well daily show definitely cramsa message down your throat.
But it is funny as shit.
There's other ones here though.
So did you know David Lettermanis still, he he's on Netflix
doing my next guest.
Steve (10:13):
Yeah.
That's not, that's not a dailythough, is it?
Or a nightly, is it?
Mike (10:16):
I don't know.
Steve (10:17):
I can't imagine him working that hard.
He retired to get away fromthat.
I.
Mike (10:20):
And does he still have that crazy beard?
That was just terrible.
He does,
Steve (10:24):
yes.
Mike (10:25):
That was just the stupidest looking thing I've
ever seen in my life, to behonest with you.
Steve (10:29):
But he was, to me, he was the king.
I mean, yes.
The, the, the, the set that thegeneration a little before us
are gonna say, Carson and I getthat.
He is, he's the one who mappedit all out really.
But but Letterman was the go-toguy and I did stay up late to
watch him, even though it hurtme at work the next day
sometimes.
Mike (10:49):
Yeah.
So that, and I think it's whatwe were going, it's probably
part of the decline and maybeit's just a way things are now
as far as how media getsconsumed, but there wasn't, it
was broadcast TV back then.
Right.
And yeah, we didn't havechoices.
Steve (11:04):
Right.
Mike (11:05):
Yeah.
In our, in our generation, wewere younger and we stayed up
and oh my god, you don't Ms.
David Letterman if you werearound Yeah.
In any way, shape or form.
You watch it'cause it washilarious.
Steve (11:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Carson before that andLetterman were both appointment
television, and everybody had,this was the age where people
were, during Carson's era,people were bringing televisions
into the bedroom for the firsttime and people went to sleep
watching Carson, and then itkind of carried over to
Letterman.
Mike (11:30):
And there was, Carson was, it wasn't quite Arjun or at
least wasn't my generation.
I don't think it was quiteyours, boomer, but it was if you
did have it on you, whenever Iturned it on, I'm like, I was
very thoroughly entertained byit.
'cause he would've lost.
Steve (11:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I can remember staying upto watch, watch Carson shared a
lot of times really?
Because there was no, if youwere up late, there was no other
choice.
What were we, watch Nightline.
Nightline was a pretty, prettydull except during the Iranian
hostage crisis, I guess.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's when it was, that'swhat they talked about every
night on Nightline.
And that was, that was Carson'schief adversary for a while.
(12:06):
The biggest competition he had.
But, but Carson I can remember,especially if it was, if you
were watching the news, and weusually watch Channel four news
here in dc the DC market, andyou would get the tease to tell
you who Carson had on thatnight, and that would determine
whether or not I was going tobid at 1130 or, or staying up
longer.
Huh?
Mike (12:24):
Well, it's, so the, when was the hostage crisis?
That was early eighties.
Right.
It was like 80, oh, lateseventies.
It was 79, 80 or something likethat.
Right?
79
Steve (12:34):
80.
Yeah.
Right in that era.
Yeah,
Mike (12:36):
because I remember, yeah, just, just
Steve (12:37):
as, just as Reagan took office, it ended.
Mike (12:39):
I was pretty young, but I remember watching Fridays, I.
Do you remember Fridays?
It was like the abc, theequivalent?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Richards.
Michael, yeah.
Michael Richards on it.
And I remember they, after the,the hostages came back and they
did a kit where they likewelcome'em to hostages home.
(12:59):
And they had'em in a room.
They gave'em all franks andbeans.
You're liking those Franks andBeans.
Right.
'Cause they're back in America.
Yay.
Thanks.
I don't know why that sticksout.
It seems You said that's thefirst thing I think of.
Steve (13:14):
Yeah.
Mike (13:14):
So what about bill Maher?
Steve (13:18):
I'm coming around to Bill Maher.
I, I avoided him for, for a longtime, for years actually.
And I've been coming around tohim recently because he has
recently become more evenhanded.
But the guy is the guy is.
Bright and poignant.
And I, I en, whenever I see him,I enjoy them.
Mike (13:34):
Is, is so you gotta have HBO to watch him though, huh?
Steve (13:38):
Yes, but there's one of the services I have streams it
after the fact.
Okay.
I've watched it a few timesthere, so you
Mike (13:43):
can't get to it.
And they also have John Oliver,I think.
Steve (13:47):
Yeah.
The British guy.
No, he's, he's not my cup oftea.
Mike (13:50):
Well there.
That was a very nice pun.
I like that.
Steve (13:54):
No Tree and Crum for
Mike (13:55):
John Oliver and I.
Steve (13:56):
No,
Mike (13:59):
you'll not be seeing him at four every day.
Steve (14:05):
No, but speaking of Britt's, I I do the guy that you
like that you're probably comingto.
Mike (14:09):
Oh yeah.
I'm gonna get there.
It's, it's, hold him for onesecond.
Okay.
Because these other ones I'mnot, I don't know him that well.
So Bravo has Andy Cohen.
Steve (14:20):
Yeah, but he's kind of a, I see him once in a while
because of the shows that EileenWat is my wife.
He, he, he does this host bitwhere he has the whole cast on
for Vanderpump Rules or one ofthese celebrity housewives shows
or something like that.
He, and he's, he's really tightwith he's like best friends with
Anderson Cooper, so he's alwayson the, on the new Year's Eve.
(14:43):
Telecast with Anderson Cooper.
I, he's okay.
I mean, I, nothing specialthere.
Mike (14:47):
Okay.
That, that sounds, it almostsounds like a very kind of like
inner, like circle media thingif he's just ha if he's just
interviewing cast of shows.
Steve (14:59):
Yeah.
To, to his credit, he's carvedout his own niche and he's, he
does pretty well with it.
He gets a lot of it.
Okay.
Mike (15:04):
Yeah.
That's fair.
That's fair.
And then the only other one Ihave here.
Is John Mullaney?
I don't, I'm not familiar withthat one on that.
He's
Steve (15:12):
kind of, Johnny, I have just become aware of him and, he
was on, he hosted Saturday NightLive not too long ago, and I
think that's where I got myfirst real dose of him.
And he seems like a pretty funnyguy, young guy.
The one thing I did like abouthim, and you'll appreciate this,
he was on the CBS Sunday Morningshow, a few weeks back being
interviewed.
I watched that every Sundaymorning.
Mike (15:30):
Okay.
Steve (15:31):
And they were interviewing him while he was
shopping in a record store.
And I noticed he had severalrecords in his albums in his
bag.
He was toting around and the oneon front was squeezes, RG Barge.
Mike (15:42):
Oh my God.
That's awesome.
Steve (15:44):
Yeah, I
Mike (15:45):
thought that was a be Cool.
Cool.
I love Squeeze.
Steve (15:47):
And that's their best album too, I think.
Mike (15:50):
That is awesome.
And it was an actual L lp.
Steve (15:53):
Yeah.
Vinyl.
Mike (15:54):
Yep.
I just had a LP story that youtold me that I just relayed to
somebody two days ago.
And somebody was talking abouthow they liked the old record
shops,
Steve (16:06):
Uhhuh
Mike (16:06):
and they, they were talking about an old record shop
here in Denver, of course, thatI'd never heard of way before my
time living here.
And I told them about.
Kemp Mill and Penguin Feather.
Mm-hmm.
And Kemp Mill was the chainwhere, everybody goes and buys
whatever records.
And then Penguin Feather was thecool place to get your albums.
And you were in line one timeand a lady in front of you, I
(16:30):
forgot exactly what they bought,but they bought something and
that, and the checkout guy just,whatever and gets her moving on.
And then.
You came up there with youralbums.
He goes that other shit's likeKemp Mill.
You can get that at Kemp Mill.
This is good stuff.
Steve (16:45):
Nothing like a little taste.
Yeah, those are the good olddays.
I spent a lot of time in boththose shops.
Mike (16:52):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Steve (16:53):
And of course Penguin Feather was also the, the local
head shop where you could getall the stuff upstairs for your
smoking weeds.
It,
Mike (16:58):
it was the old house rickety and had all the wooden
bins and everything like that.
Yeah.
With, with the guys.
And when I was, I was prettyyoung.
I'd check out there, I wasscared.
Steve (17:08):
Yeah.
Any, any crappy old house thatbecame available, they would
rent it out and put a, put apigment feather in there.
Mike (17:14):
Yeah.
That was awesome.
I didn't appreciate it backthen.
Alright, so you talked about theother Brit that I like and, and
it was really Tina that turnedme onto to this'cause anything,
Tina being my wife anything Britshe loves.
Yeah.
So I get that na name, all thedramas and everything like that,
and the comedies, she's totallyinto that.
And she turned me on to GrahamNorton.
(17:36):
Yeah.
And I will tell you those shows,I don't watch it live by any
means, and I, I, I very rarelystream a whole show, but I look
at highlights all the time andit cracks me up the way he does
that.
Steve (17:49):
He's a, he's very good.
I haven't seen him as much asyou have.
I've, I've caught maybe a half adozen of his shows, but I've
enjoyed it every time.
And I tell you what a show tobe, he gets great guest and
that's what you see circuithere.
Mike (18:01):
YI I've heard that it's because because I just'cause of
comments from the guests whilethey're on there.
They basically say you do thisbetter than anybody.
And, and yeah, I see that.
Yeah.
And it seems like what he does,the only thing I can see that's
really different is, he didn'tstart with great guests
probably.
So the reason they want to go onthere is'cause he gets all the
(18:23):
guests on there and makes themall part of it.
And they're all famous and theyprobably don't work together, or
know each other that all thatwell.
Yeah.
Steve (18:31):
Yeah.
And you wouldn't even think ofthese two people in the room at
the same time.
But yet they're, they're like,they've known each other for
years.
They have a good time.
Mike (18:37):
They, they're, they have some wine.
They sit there, they talk, and Imean, and date, they crack each
other up.
I've never seen anything likeit.
Steve (18:46):
Yeah.
And sometimes I get kind oftickled because sometimes it's
like a really big star and thenlike a, a medium star, but they,
they talk like two equals thereand you would think they would
never cross paths.
Mike (18:56):
Yeah.
Steve (18:57):
And that's what's so cool about it
Mike (18:59):
and Grant and what Graham does well is like that me, that
medium star, I won't callmediocre'cause I, I think
they're all pretty good.
But, the he'll, he'll say, Hey,tell, tell that story about when
blah, blah, blah.
And and he sets them up.
Yeah.
So that everybody startslaughing and then they'll all
weigh in.
Steve (19:14):
I know one episode I saw about a year ago actually had
Jeff Goldblum on there.
I forget who the other guestswere, but it was a very
entertaining show, and JeffGoldblum dressed to the nines
and he was promoting his newjazz album.
And they had him actually playtwo numbers during the show on
the piano, and I was just bowledover by that.
You're not gonna get that onAmerican Talk shows.
Mike (19:34):
I his jazz album.
I can totally see him with jazzhands.
Steve (19:38):
It was good.
I should, I, I forget what thealbum was.
In fact, at, at that time Imeant to go look for that album.
I, and I forgot.
I need to go back and check intothat.
Mike (19:46):
He is one interesting guy.
Steve (19:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the kind of guy thatGraham Norton puts on the show
all the time.
He loves that.
Yeah, I like that.
And, and you just don't see himon the circuit here at all
Mike (19:55):
really anymore.
I'm hesitant to bring this up'cause I can't remember the
star's name, but he's actuallyBritish.
I didn't know that until I sawhim on that show.
And he was the star of Sons ofAnarchy.
If you've ever seen that bikershow,
Steve (20:09):
Ron Pearlman.
Mike (20:11):
No, no, no.
He, Ron Pearlman was thepresident.
This was the vice president, andhe was really the star of it.
The blonde-haired guy.
Okay.
Steve (20:17):
You talking about that, his, was it his played his son?
Mike (20:21):
I don't think it was his son, was it?
I don't think.
Okay.
I don't know.
Yeah.
But anyway.
But he was on there and he's apretty big star.
He is been in a quite a fewmovies too., And I actually like
him, but apparently not enoughto know
his name.
But
he was on there and then Graham Norton brought, sometimes
they'll just, he'll bring insomebody off screen to talk to
him.
(20:41):
And this guy that was off, offscreen, he's hey, we got a big
fan of yours, and he wants toask you some questions.
And he's sure.
Absolutely.
Did you live in thisneighborhood?
Yeah, I did.
Did you go to the school?
Yeah, I did.
Then the star goes.
Yeah.
And actually, I remember I was.
I, I was trying to date a girlthere.
I don't know if you knew her.
And the guy goes, did you have adate with her to go to prom?
(21:04):
And she canceled on you?
He goes, yes.
He goes, I was the guy shecanceled for.
It was me that she went with.
Its crazy.
It was awesome.
And then he's are you kiddingme?
And it was just funny.
He bought him out.
Steve (21:20):
I love that.
I need to invest more time inwatching that.
Actually,
Mike (21:24):
man, I, I will tell you there's a lot of YouTube, like
greatest hits and what have you.
And I'm just entertaining theentire time.
Steve (21:31):
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, who get, who gets kindalost in all this now is is Conan
O'Brien.
Mike (21:37):
So he left, right,
Steve (21:40):
he got through so many times.
I, I mean he, he should haveended up with, with the Tonight
Show itself, and then he didhave it for a short time and
that's when Leno decided, nah,I'm coming outta retirement.
And he came back on the air andpretty much kicked, kicked
O'Brien to the curb.
And that's when I think a b, Cwas just trying to venture into
(22:00):
the market really to competewith NBC and CBS.
And they should have nailed downConan O'Brien right then and
there.
And I, yeah, I'll take ConanO'Brien over over Jimmy Kimmel
any day.,
Mike (22:10):
I really didn't have an opinion on Conan O'Brien.
He was just kind of coming in asI was kind of done with late
night tv.
And I just didn't see it at thebeginning.
Like he was just kind of, let'sface it, he is a little bit
goofy looking.
I.
Right.
Steve (22:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (22:25):
It, it, I mean it And
Steve (22:27):
he loses that too.
Mike (22:28):
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
It works for him.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
And, and so I'm not holding thatagainst him in any way.
So it, I think it just withoutme really diving into his
content and watching out, Ididn't go outta my way to go
watch,
Steve (22:41):
yeah.
I, I thought he was pretty good.
And I,, I think a B, C shouldhave snagged him when he was
available and made him the man,I think he's better than Kimmel.
I liked Kimmel at first, but,and he was very, he was very
even handed in the beginningand, he kind of took over from
Letterman in the aspect that he,he got really great musical
guests, which I, and that'sreally what would draw me to
Kimmel if I saw a teaser with.
(23:02):
With somebody that he was havingas a musical guest that you
would normally see or get achance to watch, then that's
what would make me tune in.
But he himself, as time went onand the climate changed around
the country, he just became moreand more hateful.
He's more Stephen Colbert nowthan he was Jimmy Kimmel in the
beginning.
Mike (23:20):
Okay.
I haven't watched him enough
Steve (23:21):
sometimes his monologues go right off the rail when he is
scolding people.
Mike (23:25):
So do you think looking at all these shows and,'cause I, I
think we can call every one ofthese, the kind of like late
night show, right?
That there truly is decliningviewership.
Steve (23:39):
Yeah, I think the numbers would bear that out.
And I think it makes sensebecause as you've mentioned, the
streaming services and all thechoices.
Then you've got the, theconstant availability and people
not wanting to stay up.
So they'll either, they'lleither stream it later or
they'll intend to and forgetabout it, but they won't stay up
to watch it in real time.
I know I won't anymore.
Of course I'm getting older.
(24:00):
Don't try
Mike (24:00):
to.
Probably just what we did aboutGraham Norton is they'll go look
for the, the good bits, right?
Steve (24:05):
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's kind of a dyingthing.
I don't expect it to last awhole lot longer, quite frankly.
I, I think that the networks asthey, they desperately need to
find something, they'll start tomake changes and the network
talk shows as we're used to bytradition will probably
disappear.
Mike (24:22):
Just some quick research I did, this is basically just
based on, Wikipedia stuff.
So it's not any heavy analyticsunless somebody's feeding it
that.
So basically over the past fiveyears, I'll just use Colbert as
the example here, the audiencehas decreased by 32% over the
past five years.
(24:42):
Not surprising.
He's, I think he's second.
Yeah.
Jimmy fall, from what I've seen,is fallen to third place.
Colbert's second.
Kimmel's first.
That really surprises me.
Really does.
Steve (25:00):
And the thing about Fallon too like I've said I
liked him on Saturday NightLive.
He was especially great withhis, whatever he was doing,
doing something with HoratioSands.
It was hysterical.
In the late night talk showthing, even if I do start to
watch him for a bit, I'll endup, I'll end up flipping to
something else because he getsalmost too silly.
I think in some ways he's, yes,almost childish.
Mike (25:22):
Can't be.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, I agree with you 100% onthat.
He's always been that he hasthat, that kind of what do you
call it?
And I'm doing the jazz handshere, but what do you call you?
It kind of like, that showbusiness gene in him.
Yeah.
That is always a performer thatYeah, he is
Steve (25:41):
truly always trying to be everything to everybody.
Mike (25:43):
Yeah.
And and he's he's the vaudevilleperformer basically, right?
Yeah.
Steve (25:48):
Yeah.
That's, he is the modern dayvaal performer.
I think that's accurate.
Mike (25:51):
Yeah.
And, and I think that takes awayfrom son of sincerity and
seriousness of, of things he, hewould say or do, and it just
gets silly sometimes.
Steve (25:59):
Yeah.
And there, there's another guywho kind of got lost in all this
and I think kind of got screwedtoo.
He was the late show guy behindDavid Letterman on CBS, Craig
Ferguson, ano another Brit.
I thought he was fantastic andhe, you shape went up to be the
heir apparent to Letterman andthen it kinda like the last
minute it didn't happen.
(26:21):
Letterman didn't promote himreally for it.
And Colbert got the slot.
And that's when Craig Fergusonsays he was, he was done doing,
doing late night, but I think hewas counting on that slot and
when he didn't get it, he, hehad kind of got fed up with the
whole thing and we're also,forget about the other British
guy.
What's his name?
Corden.
James Corden.
Mike (26:41):
Yeah.
Well, is he the, the cabkaraoke, the car karaoke guy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The car karaoke guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, he, he was very
Steve (26:49):
hot for a while.
Mike (26:51):
That's very non-traditional how he got into
that.
And I never watched him do that.
In fact, I didn't watch thekaraoke thing all that much
except maybe the Chili Peppersepisode.
But I never
Steve (27:00):
watched too much at all anyway.
'cause that got to the pointanyway, where I wasn't staying
up that late anymore.
But, the only thing I really didwatch was his primetime, Paul
McCartney special, where thewhole show was about Paul
McCartney.
And of course, you know why Ituned into that.
Mike (27:12):
Yeah.
But I think I saw a little bitof that.
Yep.
Steve (27:14):
Yeah.
But he was but he was incrediblypopular for a short period of
time.
Mike (27:19):
And it's funny you said that with the Paul McCartney
thing, and it was it in a car.
Was he doing a cab thing?
Steve (27:24):
Part of it, they went, they went over to to Liverpool
and he actually was behind, hewent to a pub in Liverpool and
he was behind a curtain, and,and they, they pulled the
curtain and Paul McCartney wasperforming to these people.
They weren't expecting him to bethere.
And they walked to Paul's house,old house, what he grew up in,
and the statues in Liverpoolwith the Beatles that he had
never actually seen before.
And then they did some carpoolkaraoke right there in
(27:45):
Liverpool.
Yeah, it was really good.
Mike (27:47):
And, and I gotta say, I love Sir McCartney.
Seriously, how can you not?
He's freaking awesome.
But he has a little bit of that,that show, that show business
gene in him too, that Yeah,
Steve (27:57):
he does, he's a hand,
Mike (27:59):
he's a
Steve (27:59):
ham.
He's kind of an arrogant handtoo, and I appreciate that about
him.
Mike (28:04):
I, I've got a, well, it's not gonna matter.
As they're doing a podcast, it'sgonna show you all my Paul
McCartney biographies that I gotaround me here.
Steve (28:11):
I got quite a few over here on this wall too.
Mike (28:14):
So there you did remind me of one thing there.
What about, we didn't talk aboutJay Leno.
Steve (28:22):
No.
And I, I meant to, and, and thatkind of says a lot about Leno
himself because during thecourse of doing this, I kind of
forgot him, is I used to do whenhe was on the air.
Mike (28:32):
Yeah, I, I always questioned how, he became the
heir apparent to Carson, right?
Because he would, he would fillin,
Steve (28:40):
well, it was supposed to be Letterman.
There was a falling out there.
Mike (28:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (28:44):
And then it became Leno, and that's why there was a
falling out.
Yeah.
Mike (28:48):
So when he took over, it was, I, I always thought it was
meh, yeah.
And, the only thing I, Iappreciate about him, I always
heard that even though he didthat every night, he went out
and did standup every Friday andSaturday.
Yeah,
Steve (29:06):
he's a hardworking dude.
He was,
Mike (29:08):
he was the hardest working guy in chokers.
He's still
Steve (29:09):
pretty work, pretty hardworking from what I
understand.
But yeah, he, he's he was kindof the safe play, and I think
that's why they gave it to himover Letterman because Letterman
was, or Leno was kind of acontinuation.
Of Carson appealing to the olderset.
Mike (29:25):
Yeah, that must be exactly what it was.
But
Steve (29:28):
Butman, so they tried to milk that as long as they could,
Mike (29:31):
but Letterman and Carson were great friends.
Steve (29:33):
They were very tight and, and I don't know exactly what
happened there, but I know thatthat's what prompted Letterman
to leave for, for CBS because hewas, he was always.
Believing that he was going tobe the Tonight Show guy, and
then it didn't happen and whenhe found out it wasn't gonna
happen, he jumped ship as fastas he could.
Mike (29:54):
Well, it had to be a lot of money involved too,
Steve (29:56):
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Mike (29:58):
And, and to his dying.
It's all about the Benjamin, Iwas gonna say to his dying day,
Letterman's still alive, butLetterman did nothing but talk
great about Johnny Carson.
Steve (30:08):
Oh yeah.
He, he adored
Mike (30:10):
him.
Adored him.
He thought he was the most classact he's ever met.
Steve (30:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (30:16):
So when we say the falling out was probably with the
network, not with Carson, would,is that fair?
Yeah,
Steve (30:21):
probably.
I'm sure there was a lotinvolved there.
Mike (30:24):
Yeah.
I think,
Steve (30:24):
I think what happened was it was the networks doing.
But to, to Dave'sdisappointment, Carson really
didn't do that much tointervene.
Mike (30:36):
So we talked about the declining viewership.
I think we've talked about aginghost, like the main ones.
And I can't speak to some of thenewer, streaming people'cause I
don't know'em that well to behonest with you.
But is the aging host andgenerational disconnect.
A big problem.
Steve (30:58):
Yeah, I think so., I think generationally speaking,
it really doesn't matter whenthese shows come on.
I don't think that the, the, theyounger generations really care
for the packaging of this kindof thing.
Mike (31:09):
And that's where I was going.
Not necessarily the time slotsor anything like that,'cause
they'll consume'em whenever.
But is it just, if I have mygenzer, my daughter and.
And my sons are they just like,why would I ever listen to these
old guys talk about anything andI'm never coming him Kinda like
this podcast.
Yeah.
I think a
Steve (31:28):
lot of that because they, they look at it and go, okay,
boomer, I, like I get sometimes,but I think it, it goes even
deeper than that.
I think you could insert youngerguys that, that they could
relate to, into these slots andthey still wouldn't watch.
I just, I think the packaging isjust kind of tired and it moves
too slow for them.
They don't want it.
Mike (31:47):
I, I think you're right about that.
I think the, the format's dead.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think that's a bigproblem.
And if they were to bring onthese people that the younger
generation did connect with andsit'em down for an interview,
the people that they're tryingto bring in that would be
interested in that interviewalready know more.
(32:08):
About that person because oftheir online content and
influencing content, then Sure.
Yeah.
Them coming in that format to beinterviewed.
Steve (32:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, they, they've already,they've already beat it to the
punch.
There's really no point to it.
Mike (32:22):
And, and I think that's where I was going there is this,
there might not be a vehicle forthis anymore.
Steve (32:33):
I think that's true.
I kind of hit on it a little bitearlier.
I think it is I think it's, it'sdefinitely on a timer now.
I don't believe that networksare gonna start in their own
need to survive.
They're gonna have to try andreinvent themselves, and I don't
think that's gonna include latenight talk shows.
Mike (32:50):
And that goes to my next point financial viability is
probably a problem for thesetype of formatted shows.
And having these highly paidhost, right, right.
Mm-hmm.
And what it takes to do theproduction of that show.
I think like these networks,even the streaming ones are
finding it's not worth it.
Steve (33:12):
Yeah, I, I agree.
I agree.
I can even see the networks atsome point, maybe one or two of
them going back to a 1950sconcept to where after the late
news they put on some10-year-old movie.
Instead.
Mike (33:25):
Yeah.
Well, they'll really draw'em in,in,
Steve (33:27):
yeah.
Well, I mean, it it, it'll be astop gapp thinking it'll be
cheap.
It'll just be filler
Mike (33:32):
or, or they'll just put a flag waving, and play the
Steve (33:35):
I don't know if you're gonna see the Blue Angels fly by
at, at two o'clock in themorning with a sign off and a
test pattern.
Mike (33:40):
We're not doing that anymore.
Steve (33:42):
I don't think so.
I was thinking about those otherday, there is a, there's
something online somewhere.
Maybe I saw it on YouTube.
There is, there is a.
One of those kind of cavalcadethings of just all the different
sign off.
Test patterns from differentlocal, local stations from
around the country from thesixties and seventies.
I found it pretty entertaining.
Mike (34:00):
Oh my God.
Somebody thought somebody wouldfind that entertaining, man.
You somebody
Steve (34:04):
put that together.
Yeah, they found me.
They, they, they did it for me,I guess.
I don't know.
Wow.
Because.
Kind of made me nostalgic,
Mike (34:12):
nostalgic for cut the TV
Steve (34:13):
that I'd have to turn it off and I wasn't tired,
Mike (34:15):
nostalgic for I hope my parents don know I'm still up.
It's time better for, there's ageneration out there that has no
idea what we're talking about.
Steve (34:27):
No, not at all.
Mike (34:28):
They used to only be broadcast TV, and they only
started this time and theyfinished this time and
everything in between was a testpattern on your tv.
Yep.
Steve (34:36):
And once in a while you'd get lucky and you'd drift into a
really cool UHF channel andwatch it through the ant races.
I.
Mike (34:42):
Yeah.
And channels were, were not likeclick, click, click, click.
You had this tuner knob that youtried to dial in frequency.
Yeah, and it would wave back andforth
Steve (34:54):
in order to watch it with any continuity you had to keep
your hand on that knob and keepit moving direction.
Mike (35:01):
The atmosphere's messing with me.
I can't get the picture in.
Steve (35:03):
And I remember it was especially important to us on on
New Year's Eve because reallylate at night on that Channel 45
outta Baltimore on UHF, theywould play the the rock movies
like help and the gimme shelter,the Old Stones Monterey
documentary.
Right.
And we would just be so suckedinto that, trying to keep that
thing tuned in.
'cause it was so cool.
It was the only way to, it's
Mike (35:23):
awesome.
Awesome.
So what, what's our final.
Our final piece here around latenight talk shows.
Steve (35:34):
Well, it was, it was a good time and it's, it's
something else that thathistory's gonna set the sun on
and it, and maybe that's a goodthing now because what we have
now is, is pretty bad.
And it's, it's, it's a lot of itother than, other than Fallon
who's always Mr.
Happy.
It, a lot of it's very hatefuland maybe it should go away.
Mike (35:53):
Well, that, that's fair.
I get that.
We certainly don't want thehateful piece.
So the other thing is theresomething.
That the new generation orgenerations can replace this
with?
Is there something that's takingplace of like, where do I get,
my, my interviewed understandingof interesting people?
Steve (36:18):
Well, I, I think we're already there with the, with the
streaming services and theYouTube channel and stuff like
that.
It is short, sweet, and to thepoint.
It doesn't take, it's not anhour long.
It's not an hour and a halflong.
It's just as long as you want itto be in, in five minute doses
and increments, and you can moveon to the next thing.
Mike (36:35):
I think that's probably true.
Would you say that podcasts areone of them?
Steve (36:41):
I hope podcasts are one of'em.
Well,
Mike (36:43):
that's what we're doing here.
So when I, when I asked, thepowers that be behind the
internet one of the things thatcame up, if you look at like a
real, show that interviewedpeople the first thing came up
was a Joe Rogan experience.
Steve (37:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and court.
He's, he's kind of the father ofof podcasting as well, and now
YouTubing as well, I guess.
So he kind of opened up thatfrontier for everybody.
But he is kind of, narrow to alarge degree.
I don't, it's not as if Oh,yeah,
Mike (37:15):
very.
Steve (37:16):
Yeah.
So there's an agenda
Mike (37:17):
there.
Steve (37:18):
So if somebody could kind of, catch what he's doing in, a,
in a bottle and expand upon it,then they would, they would
really have something.
But I, I think, yeah, you'regonna have to do something along
that line, but it's gonna haveto touch a lot more bases than
just the couple or three thatJoe, that Joe focuses on.
Mike (37:34):
Sure.
I mean, whatever, what he'sdoing works for him and I'll
give him that and, well, he'sdoing what he
Steve (37:39):
likes and that's what podcasting's all about, isn't
it?
Mike (37:41):
That's a great point.
Yeah.
And it is a very great.
Very great point.
There's another one I, I neverheard of.
It's called Call Her Daddy.
Have you heard of that?
Steve (37:51):
That name sounds familiar, but I don't know what
the first thing about it.
Mike (37:54):
It's a, it's I think it's a podcast and I'm not sure
exactly what that's about.
We can have people go researchthat and take a look and you can
always reach out to us and letus know.
So I think that kinda wraps upthis episode.
Steve (38:10):
Yeah, I think we, I think we fulfilled our obligation.
Mike (38:13):
You think if there was a person that culminated the
history of late nighttelevision, late night talk
shows, do you think they'd besatisfied and happy with what we
just did?
Steve (38:25):
Yeah, I think Johnny would be very happy with today's
episode.
They, they
Mike (38:28):
would say, it was complete.
I'm not sure.
I'm happy with it.
Alright.
So is that it for
Steve (38:34):
today?
Mike (38:34):
I think that's it.
Steve (38:36):
Okay.
Well that's, that was great.
I enjoyed that very much and Iguess we'll be doing it again
here very shortly.
So stay tuned for episode numberthree.
Mike (38:44):
And we will talk about more absurdities and personal
fronts, and we will tie it alltogether for you
Steve (38:50):
can't wait.
Hey, hey, it's the brothers.
How, again, coming to you withour second episode we've got a
lot to talk about today and myname is Steve and this is my
brother, Mike.
Mike.
Mike.
I keep it simple.
Mike (00:34):
I keep it simple.
Steve (00:37):
Today we're gonna be talking a little bit about talk
shows, and frankly, we're gonnatalk about the late night talk
shows and why.
They suck when they used to notsuck.
Mike (00:46):
I, I thought we were gonna say, they're in a state of
decline, but you really nettedit out there.
Steve (00:51):
Yeah.
State of decline suck.
Potato.
Potato.
Mike (00:56):
Well, I thought this was a pretty interesting topic and I
know you have some things youwant to get across here at the
beginning.
I'll follow your lead here, butI first, quite frankly, had to
go look up.
Who is still doing this and whatformat is it and where is it
happening?
Steve (01:14):
Yes.
You what?
You basically found the threenetworks who I guess have been
doing it for a long time, andthen I've heard of'em.
Yes.
Yeah.
There's a, yeah.
Some people still know thenetworks.
They do still exist, even thoughthey're, they're, they seem to
be, become, becoming lessimportant all the time.
But then you got these offshootstoo with all the several cable
channels and all the streamingservices.
Everybody's got a.
(01:34):
Got a talk show.
Not that, not that they'regetting a whole lot of read out
of it, but they're there.
Mike (01:40):
Well, I, I wonder who is really the audience anymore, and
we'll get into that, I'm sure.
But yeah, of course.
I, when I did my, I already knewabout the networks, believe it
or not, but I will tell you, Iam the anti broadcast watcher if
it's on broadcast tv.
I just assume it sucks.
(02:02):
To be honest with you,
Steve (02:03):
you're not alone.
I think a lot of people see itthe same way, and even as a,
even as an old boomer likemyself, I thought that I would
never be able to get used tothat.
But I have even, I don't don'tspend a whole lot of time with
the networks anymore, and Inever watched late night talk
anymore, even though I did for awhile.
And I, I went back and revisiteda little bit this past week to
(02:24):
familiar.
Rise myself.
And yes, it does still suck asit did a few years ago, but
there's, it's,
Mike (02:30):
it, well it's kind of funny you say that.
So I look at like late nighttalk show,'cause it's one, I,
I'm not quite a boomer, but I,I'm getting older and, I, I
still work for 11, so how latedo I wanna stay up and, and put
time into this?
And when I do, I look at what'sout there and I'm like, wow,
these guys are still doing it.
They're my age,
Steve (02:49):
yeah.
Well, you and I, we, we we'reright on the line there.
I'm the, I'm the last year ofthe Boomers and you are like
the, the first couple of yearsof the Gen Xers, right?
Mike (02:57):
Yeah.
Yep.
That's correct.
Happy to be, I guess it, I couldbe a boomer.
Steve (03:02):
Oh, I tell you what, I love you.
Whenever, whenever, wheneversomebody 30 sarcastically calls
me a boomer, I just say thankyou very much.
Hey, goodness, I,
Mike (03:11):
usually like somebody 30 or younger calls people, boomer,
they're wrong.
'cause it's a Gen Xer.
Yeah.
So how do you want to starthere?
'cause I was thinking it mightbe interesting just to kinda
list the more popular ones outthere.
Steve (03:27):
Well, yeah, you got the big three, which are the
networks.
With with Jimmy Fallon on NBCand Jimmy Kimmel on a b, C, and
I hate even saying his name,Stephen Colbert on CBS.
Mike (03:39):
Yeah, so I, I have some more comments about that later,
but I, my research came up witha couple of, couple of ones that
I.
I kind of knew her there, butnever vested any time in
whatsoever.
And quite frankly, maybe they'renot doing anymore.
But then you have the late latershows, so Yeah.
After shows.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's like the, there's likeTaylor Tomlinson.
I don't know anything about thatone.
(04:00):
Yeah.
Steve (04:01):
I, I have not watched her.
I, I've seen a, I've seen acouple of her teasers, so to
speak, and, and she seems funny.
I, I've, somebody told me thatshe was very funny.
She does stand up, I think, butI guess a lot of'em do Anyway,
but I have not watched the showyet.
I understand it does pretty wellfor a network show.
Mike (04:19):
Yeah.
And then you're, I mean, that'sa very certain audience that's
up that late, right.
You either have like differentwork schedules or maybe, I can't
imagine.
It's gotta be a younger audiencefor that one because, that's the
only people that stay up thatlate to have regular schedules.
Steve (04:33):
Yeah.
And do they stay up that lateor, or do they just stream it
the next day or later on?
Mike (04:36):
Well, so that's a good point.
'cause everything can bestreamed now.
I was kind of looking at it froma broadcast standpoint, right?
Yeah.
Because a lot.
It's when I do the SaturdayNight Live thing, I feel like I
kind of missed it if I didn'twatch it live.
Even though we can talk aboutthe decline of that in another
show.
Oh, we will.
The other one so Seth Meyers, Ithink has one on NBC.
Steve (04:56):
Yeah, he's after Fallon and he's been doing it quite a
while too.
And he, and he's another SNLalumnus, like Fallon liked him
on Saturday Night Live.
Okay.
Liked Fallon on Saturday NightLive.
Okay.
Do not care for either one of'emmuch as talk show hosts.
Mike (05:10):
I think would you think that and I, I'm trying to think
of the order here.
I think if we looked at just thebroadcast stuff for now that we
just talked about and you do therankings, I think Jimmy Kimmel's
the top one, isn't he?
Steve (05:23):
Is he?
Mike (05:24):
I think so.
I think I, I'm pretty sure, Idon't know if it's Jimmy Fallon
or Jimmy Kimmel.
I think it's Kimmel, but I needto, if I had to take a shot in
the dark,
Steve (05:31):
I would've guessed Fallon.
But you could be right.
Mike (05:34):
Yeah, me too.
He seems more likable.
Yeah.
Steve (05:37):
Yeah, he, and he's less, he's less offensive.
Mike (05:40):
And he's the youngest.
Steve (05:41):
Yeah.
And he doesn't really eventhough people would like him to,
he doesn't really take sides.
Mm-hmm.
Mike (05:48):
That's a good point.
Yeah.
Colbert, I guess, fell to thethird out of the broadcast TV
slot, night slot that's in,
Steve (05:55):
if there.
If there's any, if there's anyGod in Heaven, he'll continue to
fall no matter how.
If, if the, if the list is sixlong, he'll fall all the way to
45.
Mike (06:05):
Did he come from The Daily show, the Roven Reporter or
something like that?
Steve (06:09):
Yeah.
And was some show
Mike (06:10):
like that?
Steve (06:11):
Yeah.
The, the Comedy Central Show.
Mike (06:14):
Yeah, the, that.
I thought it was a daily show.
I think it was.
Steve (06:17):
Yeah.
Didn't like him there, don'tlike him.
Now, I, the guy is, the guy is,is, is hateful and he's unfunny
and he, he's not, he doesn'thave any talent and, and he's
just a stick in the mud.
I, I, I can't stand even seeinghim.
Mike (06:32):
Well, I guess we never, I don't feel too strong.
Got it.
Yeah, you're being verynebulous.
I can't quite get where you'resaying.
Steve (06:44):
He's, he's the one that, he's the one I would go to last,
if at all.
Mike (06:49):
Okay.
Do well.
Okay.
It's a good question.
Do you go to any of them?
Do you stream any of'em the nextday?
Steve (06:54):
I, it's been a while.
Here in the last week I have, Ihave watched little snippets
here and there to prepare forthis, but no, as a rule, no.
Mike (07:02):
I mean, I think Jimmy Fallon he's kind of a
multi-talented guy, and maybe heinserts himself too much into
the talent side of it.
But you know, like when he doeslike the the wrapping thing and,
he hold, he, he has a goodrelationship with who's the
goodwill hunting guy.
Matt Damon.
Yeah.
And they do that kind of stuffback.
Actually, that's Kimmel, I'mwrong.
(07:23):
That's Kimmel.
Steve (07:24):
Oh, that's right.
Yeah,
Mike (07:25):
yeah.
Yeah.
Because Kimmel's always
Steve (07:26):
bumping Matt Damon.
Mike (07:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (07:28):
It's ongoing thing.
Yeah.
Mike (07:30):
The, the little stuff like that that they do back and forth
and, and, and it have thoseregular people that they fit
well with.
And I think Fallon's probablymore a a Justin Timberlake or
something like that for asinging thing is Fallon loves to
sing.
Steve (07:42):
Yeah.
Mike (07:43):
And
Steve (07:43):
I give him a little credit.
He's, he's talented.
He's he can sing and play alittle bit.
Mike (07:47):
Yeah, he's pretty, he's pretty good with that.
But when he does stuff likethat, I'll go, I'll go look.
I think he did Fallon didsomething I thought was kind of
cool.
Did you see the little clip whenhe had, I think it was Green
Day.
And they were in the subway andit was just a band, I think they
were in disguise and it wasGreen Day with Fallon singing
with'em, and everybody justthought they were just some,
(08:07):
whatever band in Subway in NewYork, which was kind of funny.
Steve (08:11):
Yeah, I could see where that would be kind of funny.
Although if I'd known from atease beforehand that the Green
Day was gonna be on, thatwould've been another reason why
I wouldn't have watched.
That's just me.
Mike (08:22):
That's a whole nother thing.
So I I, what was it?
What, what's the festival that,the rock festival that's gone on
for
Steve (08:31):
Lollapalooza, maybe.
Mike (08:32):
Lollapalooza.
I thank you.
That's what It's okay.
Lalapalooza.
And that was the.
Yeah, that was actually Jane'sAddiction Farewell Tour, and he
put on this thing calledLollapalooza and brought bands
with him on their Fair farewelltour.
And then he, it became a thinghe couldn't get out of.
They wanted to do it every year.
Steve (08:51):
Oh, okay.
I wasn't, it was interesting.
Mike (08:53):
That's a whole nother thing, but that, that's where I
saw Green Day was kind of forcedin by the label.
Hey, you guys need to put theseguys on,
Steve (09:00):
huh?
Yeah, I was, I've never been aGreen Day guy.
But that's another, anotherthing.
Mike (09:04):
So what about these streaming ones?
There's the streaming ones, likeyou said from, besides broadcast
and I looked up a few of those.
The main one being what you justsaid, where Colbert came from
was a daily show with John
Steve (09:18):
Stewart, the Daily show.
Yeah, that's that's John Stewarttoo, right?
Is he back on there now?
Mike (09:21):
He does it on Mondays only.
What's the greatest job in theworld?
Steve (09:24):
Oh yeah, he's got a, he's got a banker's gig.
Okay.
Better than, I'll
Mike (09:28):
tell you, I started watching it again recently and
it's, I know it's very liberaland left, but man, it is funny
and especially Stewart, he'shilarious.
Steve (09:38):
Yeah.
And that's the thing too.
I don't mind, I don't mindlaughing.
I.
It either side.
I mean, you know where I comedown on that.
I'm not gonna get into that.
Yeah.
But I, I'll laugh at either sideand that's all I want from these
shows.
I want them to be fair andbalanced and poke at everybody
and do it playfully, tongue incheek.
Okay.
But a little playfully.
Not with, not with a mean spiritor trying to cram down some kind
(09:58):
of message down your throat.
Mike (10:00):
Yeah.
Well daily show definitely cramsa message down your throat.
But it is funny as shit.
There's other ones here though.
So did you know David Lettermanis still, he he's on Netflix
doing my next guest.
Steve (10:13):
Yeah.
That's not, that's not a dailythough, is it?
Or a nightly, is it?
Mike (10:16):
I don't know.
Steve (10:17):
I can't imagine him working that hard.
He retired to get away fromthat.
I.
Mike (10:20):
And does he still have that crazy beard?
That was just terrible.
He does,
Steve (10:24):
yes.
Mike (10:25):
That was just the stupidest looking thing I've
ever seen in my life, to behonest with you.
Steve (10:29):
But he was, to me, he was the king.
I mean, yes.
The, the, the, the set that thegeneration a little before us
are gonna say, Carson and I getthat.
He is, he's the one who mappedit all out really.
But but Letterman was the go-toguy and I did stay up late to
watch him, even though it hurtme at work the next day
sometimes.
Mike (10:49):
Yeah.
So that, and I think it's whatwe were going, it's probably
part of the decline and maybeit's just a way things are now
as far as how media getsconsumed, but there wasn't, it
was broadcast TV back then.
Right.
And yeah, we didn't havechoices.
Steve (11:04):
Right.
Mike (11:05):
Yeah.
In our, in our generation, wewere younger and we stayed up
and oh my god, you don't Ms.
David Letterman if you werearound Yeah.
In any way, shape or form.
You watch it'cause it washilarious.
Steve (11:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Carson before that andLetterman were both appointment
television, and everybody had,this was the age where people
were, during Carson's era,people were bringing televisions
into the bedroom for the firsttime and people went to sleep
watching Carson, and then itkind of carried over to
Letterman.
Mike (11:30):
And there was, Carson was, it wasn't quite Arjun or at
least wasn't my generation.
I don't think it was quiteyours, boomer, but it was if you
did have it on you, whenever Iturned it on, I'm like, I was
very thoroughly entertained byit.
'cause he would've lost.
Steve (11:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I can remember staying upto watch, watch Carson shared a
lot of times really?
Because there was no, if youwere up late, there was no other
choice.
What were we, watch Nightline.
Nightline was a pretty, prettydull except during the Iranian
hostage crisis, I guess.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's when it was, that'swhat they talked about every
night on Nightline.
And that was, that was Carson'schief adversary for a while.
(12:06):
The biggest competition he had.
But, but Carson I can remember,especially if it was, if you
were watching the news, and weusually watch Channel four news
here in dc the DC market, andyou would get the tease to tell
you who Carson had on thatnight, and that would determine
whether or not I was going tobid at 1130 or, or staying up
longer.
Huh?
Mike (12:24):
Well, it's, so the, when was the hostage crisis?
That was early eighties.
Right.
It was like 80, oh, lateseventies.
It was 79, 80 or something likethat.
Right?
79
Steve (12:34):
80.
Yeah.
Right in that era.
Yeah,
Mike (12:36):
because I remember, yeah, just, just
Steve (12:37):
as, just as Reagan took office, it ended.
Mike (12:39):
I was pretty young, but I remember watching Fridays, I.
Do you remember Fridays?
It was like the abc, theequivalent?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Michael Richards.
Michael, yeah.
Michael Richards on it.
And I remember they, after the,the hostages came back and they
did a kit where they likewelcome'em to hostages home.
(12:59):
And they had'em in a room.
They gave'em all franks andbeans.
You're liking those Franks andBeans.
Right.
'Cause they're back in America.
Yay.
Thanks.
I don't know why that sticksout.
It seems You said that's thefirst thing I think of.
Steve (13:14):
Yeah.
Mike (13:14):
So what about bill Maher?
Steve (13:18):
I'm coming around to Bill Maher.
I, I avoided him for, for a longtime, for years actually.
And I've been coming around tohim recently because he has
recently become more evenhanded.
But the guy is the guy is.
Bright and poignant.
And I, I en, whenever I see him,I enjoy them.
Mike (13:34):
Is, is so you gotta have HBO to watch him though, huh?
Steve (13:38):
Yes, but there's one of the services I have streams it
after the fact.
Okay.
I've watched it a few timesthere, so you
Mike (13:43):
can't get to it.
And they also have John Oliver,I think.
Steve (13:47):
Yeah.
The British guy.
No, he's, he's not my cup oftea.
Mike (13:50):
Well there.
That was a very nice pun.
I like that.
Steve (13:54):
No Tree and Crum for
Mike (13:55):
John Oliver and I.
Steve (13:56):
No,
Mike (13:59):
you'll not be seeing him at four every day.
Steve (14:05):
No, but speaking of Britt's, I I do the guy that you
like that you're probably comingto.
Mike (14:09):
Oh yeah.
I'm gonna get there.
It's, it's, hold him for onesecond.
Okay.
Because these other ones I'mnot, I don't know him that well.
So Bravo has Andy Cohen.
Steve (14:20):
Yeah, but he's kind of a, I see him once in a while
because of the shows that EileenWat is my wife.
He, he, he does this host bitwhere he has the whole cast on
for Vanderpump Rules or one ofthese celebrity housewives shows
or something like that.
He, and he's, he's really tightwith he's like best friends with
Anderson Cooper, so he's alwayson the, on the new Year's Eve.
(14:43):
Telecast with Anderson Cooper.
I, he's okay.
I mean, I, nothing specialthere.
Mike (14:47):
Okay.
That, that sounds, it almostsounds like a very kind of like
inner, like circle media thingif he's just ha if he's just
interviewing cast of shows.
Steve (14:59):
Yeah.
To, to his credit, he's carvedout his own niche and he's, he
does pretty well with it.
He gets a lot of it.
Okay.
Mike (15:04):
Yeah.
That's fair.
That's fair.
And then the only other one Ihave here.
Is John Mullaney?
I don't, I'm not familiar withthat one on that.
He's
Steve (15:12):
kind of, Johnny, I have just become aware of him and, he
was on, he hosted Saturday NightLive not too long ago, and I
think that's where I got myfirst real dose of him.
And he seems like a pretty funnyguy, young guy.
The one thing I did like abouthim, and you'll appreciate this,
he was on the CBS Sunday Morningshow, a few weeks back being
interviewed.
I watched that every Sundaymorning.
Mike (15:30):
Okay.
Steve (15:31):
And they were interviewing him while he was
shopping in a record store.
And I noticed he had severalrecords in his albums in his
bag.
He was toting around and the oneon front was squeezes, RG Barge.
Mike (15:42):
Oh my God.
That's awesome.
Steve (15:44):
Yeah, I
Mike (15:45):
thought that was a be Cool.
Cool.
I love Squeeze.
Steve (15:47):
And that's their best album too, I think.
Mike (15:50):
That is awesome.
And it was an actual L lp.
Steve (15:53):
Yeah.
Vinyl.
Mike (15:54):
Yep.
I just had a LP story that youtold me that I just relayed to
somebody two days ago.
And somebody was talking abouthow they liked the old record
shops,
Steve (16:06):
Uhhuh
Mike (16:06):
and they, they were talking about an old record shop
here in Denver, of course, thatI'd never heard of way before my
time living here.
And I told them about.
Kemp Mill and Penguin Feather.
Mm-hmm.
And Kemp Mill was the chainwhere, everybody goes and buys
whatever records.
And then Penguin Feather was thecool place to get your albums.
And you were in line one timeand a lady in front of you, I
(16:30):
forgot exactly what they bought,but they bought something and
that, and the checkout guy just,whatever and gets her moving on.
And then.
You came up there with youralbums.
He goes that other shit's likeKemp Mill.
You can get that at Kemp Mill.
This is good stuff.
Steve (16:45):
Nothing like a little taste.
Yeah, those are the good olddays.
I spent a lot of time in boththose shops.
Mike (16:52):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Steve (16:53):
And of course Penguin Feather was also the, the local
head shop where you could getall the stuff upstairs for your
smoking weeds.
It,
Mike (16:58):
it was the old house rickety and had all the wooden
bins and everything like that.
Yeah.
With, with the guys.
And when I was, I was prettyyoung.
I'd check out there, I wasscared.
Steve (17:08):
Yeah.
Any, any crappy old house thatbecame available, they would
rent it out and put a, put apigment feather in there.
Mike (17:14):
Yeah.
That was awesome.
I didn't appreciate it backthen.
Alright, so you talked about theother Brit that I like and, and
it was really Tina that turnedme onto to this'cause anything,
Tina being my wife anything Britshe loves.
Yeah.
So I get that na name, all thedramas and everything like that,
and the comedies, she's totallyinto that.
And she turned me on to GrahamNorton.
(17:36):
Yeah.
And I will tell you those shows,I don't watch it live by any
means, and I, I, I very rarelystream a whole show, but I look
at highlights all the time andit cracks me up the way he does
that.
Steve (17:49):
He's a, he's very good.
I haven't seen him as much asyou have.
I've, I've caught maybe a half adozen of his shows, but I've
enjoyed it every time.
And I tell you what a show tobe, he gets great guest and
that's what you see circuithere.
Mike (18:01):
YI I've heard that it's because because I just'cause of
comments from the guests whilethey're on there.
They basically say you do thisbetter than anybody.
And, and yeah, I see that.
Yeah.
And it seems like what he does,the only thing I can see that's
really different is, he didn'tstart with great guests
probably.
So the reason they want to go onthere is'cause he gets all the
(18:23):
guests on there and makes themall part of it.
And they're all famous and theyprobably don't work together, or
know each other that all thatwell.
Yeah.
Steve (18:31):
Yeah.
And you wouldn't even think ofthese two people in the room at
the same time.
But yet they're, they're like,they've known each other for
years.
They have a good time.
Mike (18:37):
They, they're, they have some wine.
They sit there, they talk, and Imean, and date, they crack each
other up.
I've never seen anything likeit.
Steve (18:46):
Yeah.
And sometimes I get kind oftickled because sometimes it's
like a really big star and thenlike a, a medium star, but they,
they talk like two equals thereand you would think they would
never cross paths.
Mike (18:56):
Yeah.
Steve (18:57):
And that's what's so cool about it
Mike (18:59):
and Grant and what Graham does well is like that me, that
medium star, I won't callmediocre'cause I, I think
they're all pretty good.
But, the he'll, he'll say, Hey,tell, tell that story about when
blah, blah, blah.
And and he sets them up.
Yeah.
So that everybody startslaughing and then they'll all
weigh in.
Steve (19:14):
I know one episode I saw about a year ago actually had
Jeff Goldblum on there.
I forget who the other guestswere, but it was a very
entertaining show, and JeffGoldblum dressed to the nines
and he was promoting his newjazz album.
And they had him actually playtwo numbers during the show on
the piano, and I was just bowledover by that.
You're not gonna get that onAmerican Talk shows.
Mike (19:34):
I his jazz album.
I can totally see him with jazzhands.
Steve (19:38):
It was good.
I should, I, I forget what thealbum was.
In fact, at, at that time Imeant to go look for that album.
I, and I forgot.
I need to go back and check intothat.
Mike (19:46):
He is one interesting guy.
Steve (19:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the kind of guy thatGraham Norton puts on the show
all the time.
He loves that.
Yeah, I like that.
And, and you just don't see himon the circuit here at all
Mike (19:55):
really anymore.
I'm hesitant to bring this up'cause I can't remember the
star's name, but he's actuallyBritish.
I didn't know that until I sawhim on that show.
And he was the star of Sons ofAnarchy.
If you've ever seen that bikershow,
Steve (20:09):
Ron Pearlman.
Mike (20:11):
No, no, no.
He, Ron Pearlman was thepresident.
This was the vice president, andhe was really the star of it.
The blonde-haired guy.
Okay.
Steve (20:17):
You talking about that, his, was it his played his son?
Mike (20:21):
I don't think it was his son, was it?
I don't think.
Okay.
I don't know.
Yeah.
But anyway.
But he was on there and he's apretty big star.
He is been in a quite a fewmovies too., And I actually like
him, but apparently not enoughto know
his name.
But
he was on there and then Graham Norton brought, sometimes
they'll just, he'll bring insomebody off screen to talk to
him.
(20:41):
And this guy that was off, offscreen, he's hey, we got a big
fan of yours, and he wants toask you some questions.
And he's sure.
Absolutely.
Did you live in thisneighborhood?
Yeah, I did.
Did you go to the school?
Yeah, I did.
Then the star goes.
Yeah.
And actually, I remember I was.
I, I was trying to date a girlthere.
I don't know if you knew her.
And the guy goes, did you have adate with her to go to prom?
(21:04):
And she canceled on you?
He goes, yes.
He goes, I was the guy shecanceled for.
It was me that she went with.
Its crazy.
It was awesome.
And then he's are you kiddingme?
And it was just funny.
He bought him out.
Steve (21:20):
I love that.
I need to invest more time inwatching that.
Actually,
Mike (21:24):
man, I, I will tell you there's a lot of YouTube, like
greatest hits and what have you.
And I'm just entertaining theentire time.
Steve (21:31):
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, who get, who gets kindalost in all this now is is Conan
O'Brien.
Mike (21:37):
So he left, right,
Steve (21:40):
he got through so many times.
I, I mean he, he should haveended up with, with the Tonight
Show itself, and then he didhave it for a short time and
that's when Leno decided, nah,I'm coming outta retirement.
And he came back on the air andpretty much kicked, kicked
O'Brien to the curb.
And that's when I think a b, Cwas just trying to venture into
(22:00):
the market really to competewith NBC and CBS.
And they should have nailed downConan O'Brien right then and
there.
And I, yeah, I'll take ConanO'Brien over over Jimmy Kimmel
any day.,
Mike (22:10):
I really didn't have an opinion on Conan O'Brien.
He was just kind of coming in asI was kind of done with late
night tv.
And I just didn't see it at thebeginning.
Like he was just kind of, let'sface it, he is a little bit
goofy looking.
I.
Right.
Steve (22:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (22:25):
It, it, I mean it And
Steve (22:27):
he loses that too.
Mike (22:28):
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
It works for him.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
And, and so I'm not holding thatagainst him in any way.
So it, I think it just withoutme really diving into his
content and watching out, Ididn't go outta my way to go
watch,
Steve (22:41):
yeah.
I, I thought he was pretty good.
And I,, I think a B, C shouldhave snagged him when he was
available and made him the man,I think he's better than Kimmel.
I liked Kimmel at first, but,and he was very, he was very
even handed in the beginningand, he kind of took over from
Letterman in the aspect that he,he got really great musical
guests, which I, and that'sreally what would draw me to
Kimmel if I saw a teaser with.
(23:02):
With somebody that he was havingas a musical guest that you
would normally see or get achance to watch, then that's
what would make me tune in.
But he himself, as time went onand the climate changed around
the country, he just became moreand more hateful.
He's more Stephen Colbert nowthan he was Jimmy Kimmel in the
beginning.
Mike (23:20):
Okay.
I haven't watched him enough
Steve (23:21):
sometimes his monologues go right off the rail when he is
scolding people.
Mike (23:25):
So do you think looking at all these shows and,'cause I, I
think we can call every one ofthese, the kind of like late
night show, right?
That there truly is decliningviewership.
Steve (23:39):
Yeah, I think the numbers would bear that out.
And I think it makes sensebecause as you've mentioned, the
streaming services and all thechoices.
Then you've got the, theconstant availability and people
not wanting to stay up.
So they'll either, they'lleither stream it later or
they'll intend to and forgetabout it, but they won't stay up
to watch it in real time.
I know I won't anymore.
Of course I'm getting older.
(24:00):
Don't try
Mike (24:00):
to.
Probably just what we did aboutGraham Norton is they'll go look
for the, the good bits, right?
Steve (24:05):
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's kind of a dyingthing.
I don't expect it to last awhole lot longer, quite frankly.
I, I think that the networks asthey, they desperately need to
find something, they'll start tomake changes and the network
talk shows as we're used to bytradition will probably
disappear.
Mike (24:22):
Just some quick research I did, this is basically just
based on, Wikipedia stuff.
So it's not any heavy analyticsunless somebody's feeding it
that.
So basically over the past fiveyears, I'll just use Colbert as
the example here, the audiencehas decreased by 32% over the
past five years.
(24:42):
Not surprising.
He's, I think he's second.
Yeah.
Jimmy fall, from what I've seen,is fallen to third place.
Colbert's second.
Kimmel's first.
That really surprises me.
Really does.
Steve (25:00):
And the thing about Fallon too like I've said I
liked him on Saturday NightLive.
He was especially great withhis, whatever he was doing,
doing something with HoratioSands.
It was hysterical.
In the late night talk showthing, even if I do start to
watch him for a bit, I'll endup, I'll end up flipping to
something else because he getsalmost too silly.
I think in some ways he's, yes,almost childish.
Mike (25:22):
Can't be.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, I agree with you 100% onthat.
He's always been that he hasthat, that kind of what do you
call it?
And I'm doing the jazz handshere, but what do you call you?
It kind of like, that showbusiness gene in him.
Yeah.
That is always a performer thatYeah, he is
Steve (25:41):
truly always trying to be everything to everybody.
Mike (25:43):
Yeah.
And and he's he's the vaudevilleperformer basically, right?
Yeah.
Steve (25:48):
Yeah.
That's, he is the modern dayvaal performer.
I think that's accurate.
Mike (25:51):
Yeah.
And, and I think that takes awayfrom son of sincerity and
seriousness of, of things he, hewould say or do, and it just
gets silly sometimes.
Steve (25:59):
Yeah.
And there, there's another guywho kind of got lost in all this
and I think kind of got screwedtoo.
He was the late show guy behindDavid Letterman on CBS, Craig
Ferguson, ano another Brit.
I thought he was fantastic andhe, you shape went up to be the
heir apparent to Letterman andthen it kinda like the last
minute it didn't happen.
(26:21):
Letterman didn't promote himreally for it.
And Colbert got the slot.
And that's when Craig Fergusonsays he was, he was done doing,
doing late night, but I think hewas counting on that slot and
when he didn't get it, he, hehad kind of got fed up with the
whole thing and we're also,forget about the other British
guy.
What's his name?
Corden.
James Corden.
Mike (26:41):
Yeah.
Well, is he the, the cabkaraoke, the car karaoke guy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The car karaoke guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, he, he was very
Steve (26:49):
hot for a while.
Mike (26:51):
That's very non-traditional how he got into
that.
And I never watched him do that.
In fact, I didn't watch thekaraoke thing all that much
except maybe the Chili Peppersepisode.
But I never
Steve (27:00):
watched too much at all anyway.
'cause that got to the pointanyway, where I wasn't staying
up that late anymore.
But, the only thing I really didwatch was his primetime, Paul
McCartney special, where thewhole show was about Paul
McCartney.
And of course, you know why Ituned into that.
Mike (27:12):
Yeah.
But I think I saw a little bitof that.
Yep.
Steve (27:14):
Yeah.
But he was but he was incrediblypopular for a short period of
time.
Mike (27:19):
And it's funny you said that with the Paul McCartney
thing, and it was it in a car.
Was he doing a cab thing?
Steve (27:24):
Part of it, they went, they went over to to Liverpool
and he actually was behind, hewent to a pub in Liverpool and
he was behind a curtain, and,and they, they pulled the
curtain and Paul McCartney wasperforming to these people.
They weren't expecting him to bethere.
And they walked to Paul's house,old house, what he grew up in,
and the statues in Liverpoolwith the Beatles that he had
never actually seen before.
And then they did some carpoolkaraoke right there in
(27:45):
Liverpool.
Yeah, it was really good.
Mike (27:47):
And, and I gotta say, I love Sir McCartney.
Seriously, how can you not?
He's freaking awesome.
But he has a little bit of that,that show, that show business
gene in him too, that Yeah,
Steve (27:57):
he does, he's a hand,
Mike (27:59):
he's a
Steve (27:59):
ham.
He's kind of an arrogant handtoo, and I appreciate that about
him.
Mike (28:04):
I, I've got a, well, it's not gonna matter.
As they're doing a podcast, it'sgonna show you all my Paul
McCartney biographies that I gotaround me here.
Steve (28:11):
I got quite a few over here on this wall too.
Mike (28:14):
So there you did remind me of one thing there.
What about, we didn't talk aboutJay Leno.
Steve (28:22):
No.
And I, I meant to, and, and thatkind of says a lot about Leno
himself because during thecourse of doing this, I kind of
forgot him, is I used to do whenhe was on the air.
Mike (28:32):
Yeah, I, I always questioned how, he became the
heir apparent to Carson, right?
Because he would, he would fillin,
Steve (28:40):
well, it was supposed to be Letterman.
There was a falling out there.
Mike (28:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve (28:44):
And then it became Leno, and that's why there was a
falling out.
Yeah.
Mike (28:48):
So when he took over, it was, I, I always thought it was
meh, yeah.
And, the only thing I, Iappreciate about him, I always
heard that even though he didthat every night, he went out
and did standup every Friday andSaturday.
Yeah,
Steve (29:06):
he's a hardworking dude.
He was,
Mike (29:08):
he was the hardest working guy in chokers.
He's still
Steve (29:09):
pretty work, pretty hardworking from what I
understand.
But yeah, he, he's he was kindof the safe play, and I think
that's why they gave it to himover Letterman because Letterman
was, or Leno was kind of acontinuation.
Of Carson appealing to the olderset.
Mike (29:25):
Yeah, that must be exactly what it was.
But
Steve (29:28):
Butman, so they tried to milk that as long as they could,
Mike (29:31):
but Letterman and Carson were great friends.
Steve (29:33):
They were very tight and, and I don't know exactly what
happened there, but I know thatthat's what prompted Letterman
to leave for, for CBS because hewas, he was always.
Believing that he was going tobe the Tonight Show guy, and
then it didn't happen and whenhe found out it wasn't gonna
happen, he jumped ship as fastas he could.
Mike (29:54):
Well, it had to be a lot of money involved too,
Steve (29:56):
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Mike (29:58):
And, and to his dying.
It's all about the Benjamin, Iwas gonna say to his dying day,
Letterman's still alive, butLetterman did nothing but talk
great about Johnny Carson.
Steve (30:08):
Oh yeah.
He, he adored
Mike (30:10):
him.
Adored him.
He thought he was the most classact he's ever met.
Steve (30:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike (30:16):
So when we say the falling out was probably with the
network, not with Carson, would,is that fair?
Yeah,
Steve (30:21):
probably.
I'm sure there was a lotinvolved there.
Mike (30:24):
Yeah.
I think,
Steve (30:24):
I think what happened was it was the networks doing.
But to, to Dave'sdisappointment, Carson really
didn't do that much tointervene.
Mike (30:36):
So we talked about the declining viewership.
I think we've talked about aginghost, like the main ones.
And I can't speak to some of thenewer, streaming people'cause I
don't know'em that well to behonest with you.
But is the aging host andgenerational disconnect.
A big problem.
Steve (30:58):
Yeah, I think so., I think generationally speaking,
it really doesn't matter whenthese shows come on.
I don't think that the, the, theyounger generations really care
for the packaging of this kindof thing.
Mike (31:09):
And that's where I was going.
Not necessarily the time slotsor anything like that,'cause
they'll consume'em whenever.
But is it just, if I have mygenzer, my daughter and.
And my sons are they just like,why would I ever listen to these
old guys talk about anything andI'm never coming him Kinda like
this podcast.
Yeah.
I think a
Steve (31:28):
lot of that because they, they look at it and go, okay,
boomer, I, like I get sometimes,but I think it, it goes even
deeper than that.
I think you could insert youngerguys that, that they could
relate to, into these slots andthey still wouldn't watch.
I just, I think the packaging isjust kind of tired and it moves
too slow for them.
They don't want it.
Mike (31:47):
I, I think you're right about that.
I think the, the format's dead.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think that's a bigproblem.
And if they were to bring onthese people that the younger
generation did connect with andsit'em down for an interview,
the people that they're tryingto bring in that would be
interested in that interviewalready know more.
(32:08):
About that person because oftheir online content and
influencing content, then Sure.
Yeah.
Them coming in that format to beinterviewed.
Steve (32:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, they, they've already,they've already beat it to the
punch.
There's really no point to it.
Mike (32:22):
And, and I think that's where I was going there is this,
there might not be a vehicle forthis anymore.
Steve (32:33):
I think that's true.
I kind of hit on it a little bitearlier.
I think it is I think it's, it'sdefinitely on a timer now.
I don't believe that networksare gonna start in their own
need to survive.
They're gonna have to try andreinvent themselves, and I don't
think that's gonna include latenight talk shows.
Mike (32:50):
And that goes to my next point financial viability is
probably a problem for thesetype of formatted shows.
And having these highly paidhost, right, right.
Mm-hmm.
And what it takes to do theproduction of that show.
I think like these networks,even the streaming ones are
finding it's not worth it.
Steve (33:12):
Yeah, I, I agree.
I agree.
I can even see the networks atsome point, maybe one or two of
them going back to a 1950sconcept to where after the late
news they put on some10-year-old movie.
Instead.
Mike (33:25):
Yeah.
Well, they'll really draw'em in,in,
Steve (33:27):
yeah.
Well, I mean, it it, it'll be astop gapp thinking it'll be
cheap.
It'll just be filler
Mike (33:32):
or, or they'll just put a flag waving, and play the
Steve (33:35):
I don't know if you're gonna see the Blue Angels fly by
at, at two o'clock in themorning with a sign off and a
test pattern.
Mike (33:40):
We're not doing that anymore.
Steve (33:42):
I don't think so.
I was thinking about those otherday, there is a, there's
something online somewhere.
Maybe I saw it on YouTube.
There is, there is a.
One of those kind of cavalcadethings of just all the different
sign off.
Test patterns from differentlocal, local stations from
around the country from thesixties and seventies.
I found it pretty entertaining.
Mike (34:00):
Oh my God.
Somebody thought somebody wouldfind that entertaining, man.
You somebody
Steve (34:04):
put that together.
Yeah, they found me.
They, they, they did it for me,I guess.
I don't know.
Wow.
Because.
Kind of made me nostalgic,
Mike (34:12):
nostalgic for cut the TV
Steve (34:13):
that I'd have to turn it off and I wasn't tired,
Mike (34:15):
nostalgic for I hope my parents don know I'm still up.
It's time better for, there's ageneration out there that has no
idea what we're talking about.
Steve (34:27):
No, not at all.
Mike (34:28):
They used to only be broadcast TV, and they only
started this time and theyfinished this time and
everything in between was a testpattern on your tv.
Yep.
Steve (34:36):
And once in a while you'd get lucky and you'd drift into a
really cool UHF channel andwatch it through the ant races.
I.
Mike (34:42):
Yeah.
And channels were, were not likeclick, click, click, click.
You had this tuner knob that youtried to dial in frequency.
Yeah, and it would wave back andforth
Steve (34:54):
in order to watch it with any continuity you had to keep
your hand on that knob and keepit moving direction.
Mike (35:01):
The atmosphere's messing with me.
I can't get the picture in.
Steve (35:03):
And I remember it was especially important to us on on
New Year's Eve because reallylate at night on that Channel 45
outta Baltimore on UHF, theywould play the the rock movies
like help and the gimme shelter,the Old Stones Monterey
documentary.
Right.
And we would just be so suckedinto that, trying to keep that
thing tuned in.
'cause it was so cool.
It was the only way to, it's
Mike (35:23):
awesome.
Awesome.
So what, what's our final.
Our final piece here around latenight talk shows.
Steve (35:34):
Well, it was, it was a good time and it's, it's
something else that thathistory's gonna set the sun on
and it, and maybe that's a goodthing now because what we have
now is, is pretty bad.
And it's, it's, it's a lot of itother than, other than Fallon
who's always Mr.
Happy.
It, a lot of it's very hatefuland maybe it should go away.
Mike (35:53):
Well, that, that's fair.
I get that.
We certainly don't want thehateful piece.
So the other thing is theresomething.
That the new generation orgenerations can replace this
with?
Is there something that's takingplace of like, where do I get,
my, my interviewed understandingof interesting people?
Steve (36:18):
Well, I, I think we're already there with the, with the
streaming services and theYouTube channel and stuff like
that.
It is short, sweet, and to thepoint.
It doesn't take, it's not anhour long.
It's not an hour and a halflong.
It's just as long as you want itto be in, in five minute doses
and increments, and you can moveon to the next thing.
Mike (36:35):
I think that's probably true.
Would you say that podcasts areone of them?
Steve (36:41):
I hope podcasts are one of'em.
Well,
Mike (36:43):
that's what we're doing here.
So when I, when I asked, thepowers that be behind the
internet one of the things thatcame up, if you look at like a
real, show that interviewedpeople the first thing came up
was a Joe Rogan experience.
Steve (37:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and court.
He's, he's kind of the father ofof podcasting as well, and now
YouTubing as well, I guess.
So he kind of opened up thatfrontier for everybody.
But he is kind of, narrow to alarge degree.
I don't, it's not as if Oh,yeah,
Mike (37:15):
very.
Steve (37:16):
Yeah.
So there's an agenda
Mike (37:17):
there.
Steve (37:18):
So if somebody could kind of, catch what he's doing in, a,
in a bottle and expand upon it,then they would, they would
really have something.
But I, I think, yeah, you'regonna have to do something along
that line, but it's gonna haveto touch a lot more bases than
just the couple or three thatJoe, that Joe focuses on.
Mike (37:34):
Sure.
I mean, whatever, what he'sdoing works for him and I'll
give him that and, well, he'sdoing what he
Steve (37:39):
likes and that's what podcasting's all about, isn't
it?
Mike (37:41):
That's a great point.
Yeah.
And it is a very great.
Very great point.
There's another one I, I neverheard of.
It's called Call Her Daddy.
Have you heard of that?
Steve (37:51):
That name sounds familiar, but I don't know what
the first thing about it.
Mike (37:54):
It's a, it's I think it's a podcast and I'm not sure
exactly what that's about.
We can have people go researchthat and take a look and you can
always reach out to us and letus know.
So I think that kinda wraps upthis episode.
Steve (38:10):
Yeah, I think we, I think we fulfilled our obligation.
Mike (38:13):
You think if there was a person that culminated the
history of late nighttelevision, late night talk
shows, do you think they'd besatisfied and happy with what we
just did?
Steve (38:25):
Yeah, I think Johnny would be very happy with today's
episode.
They, they
Mike (38:28):
would say, it was complete.
I'm not sure.
I'm happy with it.
Alright.
So is that it for
Steve (38:34):
today?
Mike (38:34):
I think that's it.
Steve (38:36):
Okay.
Well that's, that was great.
I enjoyed that very much and Iguess we'll be doing it again
here very shortly.
So stay tuned for episode numberthree.
Mike (38:44):
And we will talk about more absurdities and personal
fronts, and we will tie it alltogether for you
Steve (38:50):
can't wait.
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