April 6, 2025 • 57 mins
This episode, we talk about life in the refugee camps. How they weren't as rosey and I thought they were and the sacrifices refugees had to make to have a semblence of normalcy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Buddhist af Podcast. I am
your host, no a chance of visu and as always,
good to have you guys. Last last week I got
a little off the rails, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
But we are back.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Session sixty four and we are going to be talking
about refugee camps, mainly the refugee camp I was born
in and some of the smaller camps that are surrounding
that one, and.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I have my traditional I guess it is the traditional
now tea in my super dad mug that my family
got for me. So shouts out to my family, Mary
and Alex.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Mary doesn't listen to this, but Alex does eventually maybe possibly.
So let's get right into it. So little background, I
guess you guys or some of you know. I was
born in Uban Rachatani in Thailand and it was a
refugee camp.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And when I started.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Doing research into the refugee camps, I didn't know how
dangerous it was. I always thought I was doing fine,
like I didn't feel like I was in any danger
at any point. I didn't know how bad things actually were.
(01:26):
So when it was a real eye opener when I
did the research into this, and so hopefully you guys
follow along and you'll learn a couple of things too.
So let's get started. Uba and Ratatani, Thailand was home
to several refugee camps during and after the Vietnam War,
especially in the late nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. These
(01:50):
camps primarily housed refugees from Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, those who
were fleeing the war, political persecution, as well as economic hardships.
So we've already talked about the Cambodian refugees, and we're
going to add the Vietnamese refugees as well as well
(02:12):
as my parents the Laotian refugees who fled during and
after the Vietnam War. As Vietnam starts taking over Laos.
Because I don't really know why they took it, I
guess it was strategic. I mean, Laos does have a
lot of resources, so I can see why that would
be a thing. The camps Uban and Ratchatani during and
(02:35):
after the Vietnam War. Between nineteen fifty five and nineteen
seventy five, Thailand became a critical refugee a refuge for
people fleeing neighboring countries. Uban Ratchatani, located in northeastern Thailand
near the Laos border, became a hub for several refugee camps.
So we're going to talk about four of the main
(02:56):
ones that are centralized in that area. So one was
non Mune Camp located near the Cambodian border. This camp
primarily housed Cambodian refugees escaping the Khmer Rouge regime. Number
two was Bunoi Camp, a smaller, lesser known camp that
(03:19):
temporarily held refugees before they were moved to the larger
camps or eventually resettled. Number three was the Banvinai refugee camp,
though in the low A province. It was closely connected
to Uben's refugee movement. One of the most well known camps,
(03:39):
housing mostly Mung refugees. The Mong people helped the US
a lot, especially during the Vietnam War and the war
that never happened, the Secret War on Laws, and so
they were heavily persecuted when the Americans pulled out and
they were systematic hunt it down. I would hear stories
(04:02):
of gunfire in the mountains and that was that was
the Mungs being again systematically executed for how dare you
help the United States? So number four Panatonkom Processing Center
not in Uban, but important to mention this was a
(04:26):
major processing center for refugees approved for resettlement in third countries,
often after staying in the smaller camps. So the refugees
who were they we.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Got a little bit into it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So now we're going to get a little deeper, deeper,
dive into it. The people who passed through these camps
came from war torn backgrounds, each with unique struggles. Laotian
refugees many were ethnic Mung or lowland Lao who had
worked with the US in the secret War against communism
in Laos. After Potato Lao to control in nineteen seventy five,
(05:01):
they were targeted for persecution, leading to a mass exodus.
Some cross the Mekong River into Thailand under deadly conditions.
If you guys have never seen the Mekong River, it
is big. It is big, The rapids are fast, it
is very deep, and the Mekong River is pretty much
(05:23):
like the Amazon River in South America. It has an
entire fishing industry. Like the shipping cargo ships go through
the Meecong River. That's how deep and wide it is.
So people would escape and have to go cross that river.
Not to mention that they were giant catfish and the
(05:44):
stingrays that are also in those rivers river monsters shut out.
But yeah, extremely extremely dangerous to do so, especially at night,
because that's when that's when a lot of the refugees
would make their move. Imbodian refugees, which we talked about
a few weeks ago, they fled the Khmara Rouge genocide
from nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy nine, where one
(06:08):
point five to two million people died. Some escaped from
forced labor camps or brutal purges. Many crossed into Thailand
during the Vietnam invasion of Cambodia in nineteen seventy nine.
Basically they had already lost everything. So a lot of
those people who just decided just to pick up and
(06:28):
leave because of all the memory, all the trauma that
was going on in Cambodia at the time, and they
figured a fresh start would be would be ideal. Vietnamese
refugees escaped from the fall of Saigon in nineteen seventy
five included former South Vietnamese military personnel, government officials, and
their families. Some were boat people, others fled overland to
(06:52):
Cambodia or into Thailand. If you go to Ah, I
forget what the bay is now. It's a very famous
bay in Vietnam. But there's lots of people who live
on boats. They're born on the boats, they die on
the boats. A lot of them don't even come to
land unless they needed like supplies or something like that.
So that's what the boat people were. So let's talk
(07:16):
about daily life in the Uban Ratchatani refugee camps. Life
in the camps was a constant struggle for survival, with
refugees relying on limited rations, makeshift shelters, and a strict,
often hostile environment controlled by Thai authorities. Despite these hardships,
many found ways to adapt, creating a semblance of normalcy
through community education, even small businesses. So I talked to
(07:41):
my dad about the living conditions in the refugee camps,
and he didn't tell me much when I was a kid,
you know, I guess again sheltering me. But when I
talked to him recently as I was doing research on this,
he said Yeah, things were bad, like patrols would come
around and harassed the refugees, looking at them as if
(08:03):
they were lower classed people. Food was rationed out. I remember,
I do remember some of these things where it's like
we would get cans of a fish and they were
like in like a tomato sauce, and I never liked it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It didn't taste good, but that's what we had to eat.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And there were times when we would trade those cans
for like a French baguette and like condensed milk, because
that's what I enjoyed eating. And I didn't think about
it at the time, but like a can of fish
would feed an entire family, and that French baguette with
(08:49):
like a little bit of condensed milk would just feed me.
They my parents traded what could have been an entire
day meal just so I could have something sweet to enjoy.
And again, I was very sheltered as a kid, and
I am thinking about it now, like you know, threads
(09:11):
are starting to connect. But again I always thought I
was doing great, you know as a kid. I like
the very first episode, I was talking about how I
would just walk around with my friends, you know, which
is a sure no, no underwear or nothing, just pop
in squad and wherever I went. And that's how I
thought life was. But as I'm now digging deeper into
(09:34):
what refugee camps actually were, how controlled they were, and
how strict things were, and again being harassed by the
Thai military and some former Thai military would just calm
and shake people down for you know, for change or
(09:54):
something like that. So you know, I'm thinking about that now.
My parents didn't eat because I wanted something sweet, you know,
that completely selfish of me, but again that's what parents do,
and I completely appreciate everything that they've done. I'm here,
(10:16):
I'm in the US because my parents, who didn't speak
a lick of English.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Sacrificed so much.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So yes, I am incredibly grateful, and that's why I'm
doing what I'm doing right now, why I'm doing this
episode right now. So thanks Mama.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Ded So.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Shelter and living conditions. Most shelters were made of bamboo,
thatched roof and plastic sheets provided by the UNHCR. We'll
talk about them more Overcrowding was severe. Families of six
to ten people crammed into small huts. Monsoon season turned
everything into mud, making conditions worse. There was no electricity.
(10:56):
Light came from candles, kerosene lamps, or small fires at night.
Food and cooking. The UNHDR provided basic rations rice sometimes
rotten or full of bugs, dried fish or canned meats,
which was rare. Again I've talked about this. Salt and
(11:17):
fish sauce often diluted, cooking oil ration and sometimes stolen
or traded. Fresh food was scarce, so people foraged for
wild vegetables, mushrooms, and bamboo shoots in the jungle. Some
refugees did raise chickens or pigs, but they had to
be hidden because tie guards sometimes confiscated them. Cooking was
(11:40):
done over wooden fires, often using makeshift stoves made from
clay or stones.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
M Remember.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Remember the first episode of you guys have been Listening
for that long time where I said I was complete dick.
As a kid, I would steal my neighbors chickens eggs
and throw them against the water tank, mainly because I
liked the sound of eggs cracking against metal. And now
(12:13):
again as a more adult, reading how scarce UH, researching
how scarce food was and that chickens had to be
hidden away and eggs were were scarce, and fresh fresh
food was scarce for that matter. Now, again, in hindsight,
(12:38):
I was definitely a dick, and I definitely deserved all
the beatings I got in the camp. I think I
I I think I probably am the most beaten kid
in the entire refugee camp.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Rightfully, so I was not a very good.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Kid, and I was very spoiled because again I was sheltered.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I was made to believe I was special. I suppose.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Food and sanitation water came from communal wells or rain collection.
In some camps, the only water source was from a
nearby river, which was often polluted. Bathing and laundry were
done in the open, often muddy water. Toilets were communal
pit latrines, overflowing and full of flies. Diarrhea dysenteria were common,
(13:31):
especially among children. We're gonna get graphic here, because again,
if I'm gonna go full disclosure, let's go full disclosure.
So we did communal kids did communal bathing, and like
this little trough, and that very same bathing water was
(13:51):
also laundry water. And a lot of times when it
didn't rain, we didn't have water, so we would just
bathe in like these. I wouldn't say there were rivers,
but they were. There was running water from somewhere in
a ditch.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And that's where we would bathe.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And I remember very vividly one night my butt was itching, itching,
very badly, and so I would I told my parents,
my mom and my dad, and I had found out,
(14:39):
or I didn't find out, they had found out that
there were maggots in my bum because I was not.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
A clean kid. And so there we are.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm laying now and my mom is picking maggots out
of my butt and throwing them into the fire, and
I can hear them, and like suddenly, the the itching
and and the uh, you know, the weird sensation I
guess was done because she had gotten them all.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So again in the.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
In the base of being on in the open and
Alex listening to this, I want you to know, you know,
the struggles we went through as a kid. So, yeah,
sanitation was not a thing. So I remember during the
monsoon season when it rained really hard, we would all
go out and bathe because that was the cleanest water
(15:42):
we were ever going to get in a.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Very long time.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Even the even the water, the rain water collection was
a metal drum, a big metal drum, and I'm pretty
sure it was rusted on the inside.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I never saw it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
But the trough that we bathed was always dirty anyway,
so I really couldn't tell if it was clean water
or dirty water. But when the monsoon seasons hit, you know,
we all went out communal bathing and the women would
put on serrongs and cover themselves up, but they would bathe,
and yeah, again, that was the cleanest we were going
(16:19):
to be for a very long time. So daily routine
and survival. I got this from my dad. Morning from
four thirty to seven am, people woke up early to
fetch water, start fires, and prepare the daily rations of
rice porridge kopiuk, which is just water, salt and rice.
(16:46):
Some families sent children to collect woods or forage for
food in the forest. If they were lucky, Refugees with
money would buy small fish, eggs, or dried chili peppers
from tie vendors outside the camp. From seven to four pm,
daytime rations were distributed. Ration distributions happened once a week.
(17:07):
People lined up for hours under the sun. I remember
my dad waiting line. My mom and I would watch
my dad waiting in line, and he would again go
go get from these trucks or sometimes they were like,
you know, a little little cars, but these trucks would
(17:30):
come in and my dad would wait in line, and
they would ration off these and some fish in tomato sauce.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And you can buy them now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You can go to the Asian store and you can
buy these cans of fish and tomato sauce. And I
I was so sick of it, but that's all we had.
And so it was protein, you know, it's all you
really needed. And I remember my parents coming back and
just being so proud that they got a certain amount
of cans.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And again, you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Know, as a kid, you're like little fish in tomato sauce.
But we made it work somehow. So ration distribution once
a week.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
People that haven't run us UD.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Some refugees worked illegally in Thai farms, sneaking out of
camp at night and returning before sunrise. Children attended makeshift
schools if the camp had one. Adults tried to learn
English or French in hopes of being resettled. In the evening,
between four and nine pm, families gathered to cook dinner,
(18:36):
usually a simple meal of rice and boiled greens. Some
people held secret religious ceremonies, be them Buddhist prayers, Christian gatherings,
or Animis rituals. The night was dangerous again, I was
already asleep. I didn't know this, but this is for
my dad. The night was dangerous. Thai soldiers sometimes would
(18:59):
raid homes, fights broke out between different refugee groups, and
these would happen randomly, like it's not every night.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Obviously it was every.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Night, I would remember it. But these things did happen,
and I do remember hearing screaming outside the hut and
just loudness.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But again.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
A lot of alcohol also made it into play, like
people made moonshine at home, and people drank. You know,
it's it's a thing, so that's usually when people get loud.
I just assumed they were just fighting because they were drunk,
but turns out could have been Thai soldiers raiding homes
as well. Educations in school.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Only.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Some camps had Yuan supported schools, often ran by refugee volunteers.
Classes were held outdoors or under bamboo huts. Subjects included
basic literacy, Thie English, and math, but supplies were scared.
Children would use charcoal and banana leaves instead of notebooks.
Some older students would train in vocational skills like sewing
(20:08):
or farming to prepare for resettlement. The economy and the
black market, I didn't really see too much of these things,
Like I do remember there were small shops outside, just
outside the fences. You can almost like if you think
(20:32):
of a shop that had like a gate that came
down at night and then went up during the morning,
that's that's what these little like little vendor shops would be.
And we had a movie theater actually if I remember correctly,
And so these would come down and they would shut
down at night, and then in the morning they would
open up. Since refugees weren't allowed to leave the camps,
(20:53):
a hidden economy emerge.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Bartering.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Rice was traded for vegetables, soap, or medicine. Illegal vendor
Thai merchants sold goods at inflate prices, sometimes sneaking in
through the guards smuggling. Some refugees secretly crossed into thaie
villages to.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Work or trade bribery.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Thai soldiers were often paid off to allow people to
escape or bring in extra food. Remember like these these
guys were constant. I only remember vague pieces of like
seeing people in military uniform Again, I was eighty three
eighty four, so I was like two three years old,
(21:37):
so I vaguely remember seeing people.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I do remember.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Fences, and I do remember seeing like a lot of
people in green outfits, but I don't I don't remember
if they were military fatigues or not. Again, a lot
of the people who are in the refugee camps were
former military, former allow military, and they usually would bring
(22:01):
their military uniform with them. I don't know why, So
it could have been or I could have been seeing
those uniforms as opposed to the Thai uniforms, or I
could have seen the Thai uniforms and just not known
I did. Security and violence. The camps were often surrounded
by fences, barbed wire, and armed Thai soldiers. Refugees were
(22:24):
not allowed to leave unless they had special permission. Fights
would break out between different ethnic groups, sometimes leading to deaths.
Thai soldiers were known to abuse power, often extorting refugees
or committing assaults against women. Armed bandits or former soldiers
raided some camps, stealing food or taking revenge on old enemies.
(22:45):
So again I heard screaming at night. I heard loud
shouting and I just assumed it was just you know,
drunk old men who got too hot in the sauce.
Sorry teaper Hope and resettlement. Despite the hardships, many refugees
held on to hope that they would eventually be resettled.
(23:08):
Families applied for refugee status with the un HCR, waiting
months or years for approval. Some were sent to processing
centers like Panatony Coom, which is where we eventually ended
up before leaving for the US, France, Canada or Australia.
Others never got that chance, being forcibly repatriated to Laos
(23:33):
or Cambodia. Life in the urban refugee camps were or was,
a test of endurance. Every day was a battle for food, water,
and survival. But even in the face of suffering, communities formed,
friendships were made and people found ways to keep hope alive.
(23:55):
Can you imagine like, well, I guess you don't have
to imagine that anymore in our day and age, but escaping,
fleeing for your life and escaping you know, Laos at
the time or Cambodia at the time when you were
being hunted when you're being persecuted and then all of
a sudden it's like, hey, we don't have room for you,
(24:16):
so you're.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Gonna have to go back. Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, I just can't I wouldn't be able to imagine that. Obviously,
I can't imagine that because I'm a US citizen. Now
that doesn't really mean anything, I guess, but yeah, I
mean not for nothing. I've been talking to my dad
on this. He can't go back to Laos to this
very day. So let's think about that. Like if he
(24:45):
was to be sent back, or if he somehow found
his way back into Laos, he would be arrested as
a as a war criminal because he quote unquote fought
against the people. So yeah, I hope that never happened. Obviously,
the long wait resettlement and repatriot repeat repatriation, ha, it's
(25:13):
a long night. So many refugees stayed in the camps
for years waiting for resettlement in third countries. The US, France, Canada,
and Australia took in many many refugees. The process was long,
requiring background checks, sponsorships, and interviews. Some families were split
up split up due to bureaucracy issues. Yeah, our family
(25:39):
was sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ in Latter
day Saints. I remember that vividly because we had to
go to church every Sunday and I had to go
to Sunday School, which I actually enjoyed. I actually enjoyed
Sunday School. I learned about the Bible. I learned about
(25:59):
the Wall of Jericho and David and Goliath. I learned
a lot. And that's I got most of my English
from Sunday School. So I mean, I will say that
I appreciate it. I appreciate learning about you know. I
learned about Jesus, learned about God, learned about Samson and
(26:23):
all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It was.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It was kind of cool because it was we didn't
have TV at home, so I got all these vivid
stories from Sunday School. And as I got older, I
started to think that maybe the church we belonged to
was a cult. Because again I'm just repeating myself here,
but I remember getting on a bus on Sunday and
(26:46):
then going out to a farm, and then from the farm,
I'm sorry, from the bus, we were walking towards the barn,
and we slowly started getting separated between boys and girls.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Got separated. Then you know, the boys.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Would go one away, the girls would go the other way,
and then suddenly the ages were getting separated. So like
five and six year olds over here, seven to eight
over here, and every room we went into didn't have
any windows. We didn't actually see any animals at the farm.
(27:22):
And all of our teachers, I guess all of our
teachers were over really happy, like too smiley, too welcoming,
and I just had a weird vibe. And I'm to
this day, I am a vibe person like I can
kind of see if I'm gonna like you or not
(27:42):
just by being around you for a little bit. And
I've always gotten a weird vibe to the point that
I told my parents, I don't want to go here anymore.
I don't want to go to Sunday School anymore. And thankfully,
like we have already established ourselves in the US, we've
already gotten green cards, residential alien cards, you want to
call it, and so we didn't have to anymore. I
(28:04):
just enjoyed it until I didn't enjoy it anymore, and
then I told my parents I didn't want to go,
and my parents told Rocky, told Rocky, the guy who
was responsible for picking us up all the time every
Sunday that we didn't want to go anymore, and he
was fine with it. My last day, I remember this vividly.
My last day, I got off the bus and he
(28:26):
got me off the bus and he picked me up
and he spun me around. You know, he was just
picked me up in his arms and spun me around.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
He was always a really cool guy. And that was
the end of it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
He put me down and he said, you know, I'll
see you again, I guess, And that was it. And
I never saw him again. But yeah, I see people
like that, like leave lasting impressions on you because of
he was a good guy. He was really was good
to us, and he was never me and he was
(28:56):
never he was always happy. And that was what bothered me.
People who are too happy all the time, Like there's
got to be some skeletons there. So I never saw
any of that stuff. But again, it just felt weird.
Where was I that that repatriation to home countries. Some
Laotians and Cambodians were forcibly repatriated despite fears of persecution.
(29:21):
Vietnam and Laos had re education camps where returnees were
sometimes sent, some chose to stay in Thailand, forming small
refugee communities. Legacy and impact of the refugee camps. The
refugee camps in Ubuen Ratzatani played a major role in
(29:42):
shaping Southeast Asian dysphoria worldwide. Thai influence on the refugee
camp included many Laotian and Cambodian dishes having Thai influences
due to years spent in the camps. Mong Lao and
Khmand communities in the US have grown strong with Turis,
with traditions adapted to their new homes. Which is why
(30:04):
we are called the Golden Triangle Laos, Thailand and Cambodia.
Is because we're neighbors. We share culture, we share things.
So Moi Thai, for instance, Moi Thai is a martial
art made famous in Thailand. There's also moi lao. There's
(30:24):
a moi kame and so moi means fighting, by the way,
and so different styles, same same, same styles, different techniques.
There you are, that's how you put it. The dancing
is also very similar to each other. So food and
(30:44):
all that, it's all the same. That's because of the
melting pot that we have here. Psychological trauma. Many survivors
still struggle with PTSD from the war and camp life.
So imagine you fought a war, your side lost, and
then all of a sudden, you are in these camps.
You're no longer in your house. You are sharing them
(31:06):
with you know, six, eight, ten different strangers, and you're
all cramped in together. And you know, you hear gunshots,
you hear screaming and shouting and fights breaking out. That's
got to do something to your psyche. I mean, my
dad is still I would say, as bluntly as possible,
(31:30):
my dad is still messed up to this day. When
Alex was born and my dad had quit smoking for
a very very long time, I would say, nineteen eighty eight, yeah,
we were still we're in conkif so nineteen eighty eight, yeah,
(31:51):
my dad had quit smoking. And when Alex was born,
he hed gotten very worried about Alex because obviously first grandson,
the grandson, and so he had started smoking again. It
wasn't a lot, It wasn't like he used to smoke
all the time. He used to smoke in the camps,
(32:11):
and he would smoke all the time in the camps.
He would hand roll so he would smoke all the time.
But then when I brought Alex over for the first
time when they when they met for the first time,
I had noticed my dad had started smoking, and I
was like, why are you smoking? And he's like, oh,
I was just worried about Alex, you know, I was
worried making sure he's okay, like I don't see him,
(32:34):
like I've never met him before, like this is the
first time we've laid eyes on each other. And so
he was very stressed out about that. So he started
smoking again, and so we put we had put Alex
to bed, and Alex was in an unfamiliar place, so
he didn't go down easy. He didn't he didn't go
(32:56):
to sleep right away, so he would cry. And obviously
if we had intervened, he would just start playing again,
thinking he was playtime, and he wouldn't go to sleep.
So we just had to let him cry. And I
noticed my dad like just twitching, just like very irritable,
and you know, Alex is crying. We can hear Alex crying,
(33:18):
and he was just getting like twitchy, like his hands
were shaking. And again, this is this is coming from
me who was at the time a mental health worker.
So I was trained to watch people's mannerisms, especially people
who who had PTSD or who had suicidal tendencies or thoughts,
(33:41):
and I had to see if there was a trigger
that was about to happen. So I had to be
very observant. And my dad's hands were shaking, he was
rocking back and forth, and so he had gotten up,
and I wasn't worried. He'd gotten up, and he had
gone outside and my mom, my step mom, had come
(34:04):
down and you know, she was looking for him. I said, oh,
he went outside, and so she went outside too, and they.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Were out there for quite.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Some time, and my stepmom would come back in and
she comes over to me, and very quietly, she was
confiding to me that my dad was was having an
anxiety attack because of Alex's crying and because he remembered
(34:32):
all the kids just crying in the middle of the
night in the refugee camp, and he was just having
an anxiety attack, and so he had to go outside.
And it was more impactful for him because it was
his grandson that was crying, and he felt helpless. He
felt like he couldn't do anything, and so he went
outside and just started smoking, and so my step mom
(34:55):
was confiding that in me, and you know, I had
to talk to him about it, and we we still
talked about now. And he's better, obviously because he sees
Alex more. He he does video calls if he does
miss Alex a lot, or or roll call him if
we don't hear from them after a while. So obviously
things have gotten better now that Alex is older, and
(35:16):
now that you know he's he's more robust, and and
so that was just a thing that that still affects
my father to this day. And so when I talked
to him a couple of weeks ago about this, I
asked him about that, and he said, yeah, it's it's
It still haunts him that he would hear kids crying
(35:38):
at night and the next night they wouldn't cry because
they were sick or unfortunately they had passed, and so
he could tell whose kids these were, just like I
can tell Alex's cry between every other kid's cry. When
Alex got hurt a couple of weeks ago at the playground,
(36:00):
I heard a loud yelp and then a cry, and
in a playground of fifty kids, I knew where my
kid was I knew my kid was hurt. I knew
he wanted his parents, and I knew exactly where he
was in a sea of kids. And so my dad
(36:21):
was explaining that to me, how he knew these babies
when they were born, He saw them being born, and
he would hear their cries in the middle of the night,
and you know, if he hurt them again the next night, great,
but sometimes he didn't, and he would fear that, you know,
one of those cries were me, even though I was
(36:45):
right next to him. So he still has that to
this day. So hearing a baby cry like just kind
of triggers him, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So, yeah, PTSD is real.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Detailed timelines of the Uban Ratchatani refugee camps from nineteen
seventy five to nineteen ninety seven is when the last
refugee camp in Thailand closed, So from nineteen seventy five
to nineteen eighty. The influx begins nineteen seventy five. After
the fall of Saigon on April thirtieth, the Communist takeover
(37:20):
of Laos and Cambodia, thousands of refugees began crossing into
the border. From nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy eight,
the Thai government, with the support from the UNHCR, began
establishing official refugee camps, including those in Uban Ratchatani. In
nineteen seventy nine, the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia leads to
(37:40):
a massive new wave of refugees. That's when the Vietnamese
took out the Khmer Rouge. From nineteen eighty to nineteen
eighty nine the peak years in international resettlement. Nineteen eighty
to nineteen eighty five, camps like Nai Mun Punoi and
others in Uban reached their highest populations. The US, France, Canada,
(38:04):
and Australia began large scale resettlement efforts. Nineteen eighty seven,
Thai policy shifts towards discouraging new refugee arrivals, leading to
an increase of deportations. Nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety seven,
the camp closures and final refugees leave, so in nineteen
ninety two, Thailand, LAOS and the UNHCR signed a repatriation agreement,
(38:29):
forcing many llow refugees to return. Nineteen ninety five to
nineteen ninety seven, the last remaining camps, including nonm Mune,
closed as Thai pushes as Thailand pushes for all refugees
to be resettled or repatriated. So let's talk about the camps. Now, sorry,
(38:49):
I'm all over the place, so these notes are also
all over the place. So let's talk about the refugee camps.
Number one nonm Mune Refugee Camp nineteen ninety seven or
I'm sorry nineteen seventy nine to nineteen ninety seven. It
was located near the Cambodian border, mostly Cambodian refugees fleeing
(39:09):
the Kahmara Rouge and later the Vietnamese occupation. Notable events
that happened there. In the early nineteen eighties, Non Mune
was overcrowded, leading to a disease outbreak. Thai authorities forcibly
repatriated some refugees despite concerns for their safety, and it
was closed in nineteen ninety seven. The last refugees were
(39:30):
either resettled or sent back to Cambodia. Camp Bunoi nineteen
seventies to the mid nineteen nineties. It was located in
the forces of Ubu and Ratatani. Often used as a
temporary camp, it was a mixture of Laotian and Cambodian
refugees awaiting transfer to larger camps or to the processing center.
(39:52):
The conditions were extremely poor infrastructure, with limited water and
food supplies. Many refugees lived in make shift tents for years.
It finally closed as many refugees transferred out to bigger
camps in the early nineteen nineties. Bonvni nineteen seventy nine
(40:14):
to nineteen ninety two was a Mung refugee hub. Although
not in Uban, bonvin I played a critical role in
process seeing Laotian refugees. Many passed through Ubun before reaching Bonvinay,
mostly among people who had worked in the US military
or worked with the US military during the Vietnam War,
lived in Bonvini.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Conditions were a lot more.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
A lot better at Bonvini because of the strong sense
of the Mung community, with makeshift schools and markets. However,
very little freedom of movement and food was tightly controlled.
In nineteen ninety two, the Thai government shut it down,
pressuring refugees to return to laos ny Coombe Processing Center.
(41:01):
From nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety four, the last stop
before you were resettled. This is where the story takes place.
Where we were getting on the school bus. And I
had been a brat wanting to take my pet caterpillar
with us, and my dad had finally had enough and said,
(41:25):
all right, fine, we will take the caterpillar. And when
we finally got to the caterpillar nests in my little
corner of the hut, it was gone.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So we had almost missed.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The bus because I was being a brat. And this
was in Panatony Coombe, so it was near the near Bangkok,
not Uban, but crucial for processing refugees from the Uban camp.
This center was where refugees approved for resettlement went before
leaving for their new countries. Many Laotians, Cambodians, and Vietnamese
(41:59):
passed through here before flying to the US, Canada or Australia.
It was shut down in nineteen ninety four after resettlement
programs wounded down. So I do remember the trip and
I would refresh the memories of you guys. We got
on the bus at Panatony coom and it was a
yellow school bus and as we were driving down the road,
(42:22):
I do remember looking out the window and seeing people
working the fields. This is the first time we actually
that I remember leaving the camp, even though we had
been in a previous refugee camp and people were working
the fields and they had the uh, they had the
rice patty hats.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I do remember that, and.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
You know, I was just I was just thinking, like,
where are we going next, because I'd never been on
a vehicle before. I don't remember being on a vehicle,
and so I just thought this was a great adventure.
Next thing, you know, I am, it's nighttime and we're
in a tram on on a tarmac and we were
(43:06):
on our way to get on a plane, and I
think at this point we were in France or going
to France.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
And then flash forward to.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
My next memory is we are in New York City
and this is the infamous, the infamous water fountain incident
where my dad has had never seen a water fountain before,
and I was thirsty, and so he tilted my head in,
but he would also press the water at the same time,
So he would press the water button at the same
(43:36):
time and lean my head in and the water would
just splash my face. And I remember, I remember telling
you guys about this, but it wasn't one time, it
wasn't two times, it wasn't even three times. But I'm
pretty sure my dad had to try to drown me
at that point. That's where my fear of water came from,
what I was told. I used to be able to
(43:58):
swim very well, and suddenly I'm in America and my
dad's trying to drown me in a water fountain in
the airport, and suddenly I don't know how to swim.
So H put two and two together, t brick my
tea's cold again. Oh well, so why did the camps close?
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Well?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Political pressure from Thailand. By the early nineteen nineties, Thailand's
pretty much gotten tired of having all these refugees there,
so they no longer wanted to host refugees and push
for repatriotation. Man repaytriation, repatriation. I typed this, I should
be able to read it repatriation.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Many were forcibly returned to Laos and Cambodia, even after
even if they faced danger. The UNHCR resettlement and repatriation programs.
From the late nineteen eighties to the late two the
nineteen nineties, the UNHCR worked with Western countries to resettle refugees.
Those who weren't resettled were sent back to their home countries.
(45:09):
The end of the Cold War also shut down a
lot of the camps. With the fall of the Soviet Union,
global political landscapes changed and the US support for Southeast
Asian refugees decreased and resettlement programs were slowed down. So
the final refugees? Where did they go? So? What happened
(45:29):
to the last of the refugees. Many among refugees returned
or refused to return to Laos due to fear of persecution.
Some hid in Thai villages and sought asylum in the US.
The Cambodian refugees had an easier time returning to Cambodia
as it was stabilizing in the late nineteen nineties. Some
stateless individuals remained in Thailand without official recognition for years.
(45:54):
Where did they resettle? Many who left Ubun's camps ended
up in the United States, mainly in California, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Texas,
and North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
France.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
A large Laotian and Cambodian community formed in Paris and
other cities Canada and Australia. I have family in Canada.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
So Canada and Australia took in many Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees.
So what are the what's the lasting legacy of the
refugee camps. Well, the Desporia communities. Refugees who passed through
BUN helped shape Southeast Asian communities worldwide. Many survivors suffered
from PTSD due to the war, camp conditions and force repatriation.
(46:46):
Haha and thaie and lust food influenced each other. Due
to refugee presents, traditions like Long New Year and law
festivals became common in resettled areas. So now if you
go to like Califorfornia or northern I'm sorry, Northern California,
like stocked in Fresno, those places, you have what's called Sabaidifes,
(47:07):
which is a Laos festival every year now and it's
it's pretty big, Like they get celebrities from Thailand and
from you know, from the United States to show up there,
and it's big. Minnesota has a huge Lao and Mong community.
I forget who's who's the who's the girl from the
(47:30):
United States gymnastics team, She's monk and so hey shouts
out represent and Jesse the body of Ventur when he
was the governor of Minnesota, spoke a lot about Laos,
spoke a lot about how he loved the Lao people,
how he wished he could have helped more.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And he was a.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Vietnam vet and he was there, he knew about the war.
He wished he could have spoken out more about it,
and he to this day he still speaks about it.
So I mean, shouts out to you, Jesse Venture. I
can't hate the guy, can't. He's a really really cool guy.
Good movie Starry too, Not gonna lie. He actually did
some pretty decent movies. So big summary. Now, what was there?
Speaker 2 (48:25):
What was it like? Again?
Speaker 1 (48:30):
It was.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
For me, it was fine.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
I didn't I didn't really experience any of the hardships
that my parents experienced.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
So I don't know. I don't.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm I'm a little crossed about it because I wish
I knew more about it before I did the first
episode where I said everything was hunky dory, everything you know,
I was.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I was a complete dick as a kid.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I do remember like growing up alongside these two girls,
and I wish our families that kept in touch because
they were my best friends. These two girls, they were
sisters and in the camp, they were my best friends.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
As far as.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I know, my dad believes they went to Minnesota, and
then we lost Minnesota, and then we lost contact with
them ever since.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Another thing that.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Again full disclosure, I guess we're not gonna be embarrassedor
Another thing that happened in refugee camps or in LAO
culture is arranged marriages. And I am here to say
that I was in an arranged marriage. To arrange marriages,
(49:55):
I don't even know how that happened, but I met
both of them. I've met both women now that I
was arranged to or arranged to be wedded too.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, that's how I'm gonna word it. One of them
lives in Florida. Last I checked. Last I knew.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
I met her.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I met her as an adult. I met well, I
wouldn't say that as a teenager. I met her ninety seven. Yeah,
in nineteen ninety seven, and she was a cool chick,
really really cool girl, and we actually talked about it.
We talked about our family wanting us to Oh. I
(50:41):
guess they didn't want us to get married. I guess
it was just an agreement, because you know, that's that's
what they did there in case they didn't have a
legacy in case they didn't have an air or something
like that. Your kid was gonna marry my kid and
we're gonna be friends forever, that sort.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Of thing, And so we talked about that.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
We had a good life about it, and I unfortunately
I lost contact with her not too long after that.
But I think she's still around. I have people who
know her, so I still I can.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Ask about her, I guess. And the second one found
me on my Space.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Remember in my Space, and we are well, it's weird
to say that we are related now, but again that's
how things were, not closely related, not first cousins.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
We're not from Virginia.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
A place for lovers of cousins, but we are related.
And I met her a few times and we kept
in contact for a bit and then we lost contact,
but we still know of eat each other. Obviously I'm
married now, she's married now, so it's all good. But
(52:06):
it's just weird that we got to connect like that,
because a lot of times you don't. When you leave
the refugee camps, you lose all your connections. And for
us to stay connected like that after a while, and
the Internet is great, I will say, there are certain
things about the Internet that is awful obviously, but again,
(52:28):
being connected with somebody you were betrothed to and finding
each other on MySpace and then reconnecting on Facebook, things
like that, that is cool. A lot of my research with
the Cambodian genocide was done through reaching out through Facebook,
through finding out people who were living in refugee camps,
(52:50):
who were in the same refugee camps as my family
during that time. I reached out to a couple of
those people and they responded really great, and I wouldn't
be able to do this episode without a lot of
those people, and especially my parents. I didn't really ask
my mom because I don't know. My mom and I talk,
(53:11):
but we never go deep like my dad does.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
So there we are. Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
So life and refugee camps were a test of endurance.
Every day was a battle for food and water and survival,
and even in the face of suffering, communities formed, friendships
were made, and people found ways to keep hope alive. Definitely,
obviously I am a shining example of refugee camps. So yeah,
(53:44):
the struggles of refugee camps and I guess this is
this is a podcast about struggles of being a parent.
And unfortunately, Alex, your father didn't really ruggle too much
in the refugee camp. Your father lived a pretty sheltered
life in the refugee camp. Your grandparents, on the other hand,
(54:07):
suffered a lot.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
And so that's why I preach.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
And tell you to show them the utmost respect when
you go to their house. There's a reason for that.
They've earned it. They've earned my respect, They've earned Mary's
respect because of what they were able to accomplish with
very little. And so when you go to their house
and I know that you are the honorable grandson and
(54:39):
you can do no wrong and your parents have no
power at Boo and Yah's house, you still show them
that respect. And I'm glad you understand that. I'm glad
that every time you go there, even when you were younger,
you knew that there were boundaries there and there was
(55:02):
some respect there and you never crossed them. So I
do appreciate that, I really do. And so that is
the end of tonight's episode. Glad for you guys sticking
with me. Repatriation ha. So that is the word of
the day, repatriation. But it is a very long night
(55:24):
I am very tired. There was a lot of notes here,
and my tee's gone cold. I need to keep a
what's that thing where the mug that has like that
stays hot?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I need to get that. I'll have to look that up.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
But again, I appreciate you guys listening, and I will
catch you guys next week. Where again, this is a
serious episode. So next week's gonna have to be a
failer episode. So next week we are going to be
talking about the hidden history of New Hampshire, because I
like talking about New Hampshire to talk about things that
(56:02):
you guys probably didn't I didn't even know a lot
about about New Hampshire, and about people who you may
have heard of. Let's talk about people like Paul Revere
and how he was court martialed by the US, or
(56:26):
not the US at the time, but by the Americans.
Let's talk about Benedict Arnold and how he was actually
a big time hero. A lot of people don't know
about that, but he was a big hero before he
was pretty much backstabbed by the Americans, which led to
his quote unquote betrayal. But I mean the man was
(56:49):
pushed to it. So we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
We're going to.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Talk about the first Black regiment of the American Revolution
and talk about Sybil Lootington, who you guys probably never
even heard of, but she played a huge role in
the American Revolution and she does not deserve to be forgotten.
(57:16):
So we're gonna talk about Sibil Lootington. We're gonna talk
about Paul Revere getting court martialed because he was not
a very good military guy, and talk about benadic Arnold
and why I believe he was a hero before the betrayal.
So thank you for listening, and I appreciate each and
(57:37):
every single one of you, especially new listeners in Germany.
Speaker 2 (57:41):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
So I will talk to you guys next week as always,
Bob and Young, no worries, See you guys.
Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Buddhist af Podcast. I am
your host, no a chance of visu and as always,
good to have you guys. Last last week I got
a little off the rails, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
But we are back.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Session sixty four and we are going to be talking
about refugee camps, mainly the refugee camp I was born
in and some of the smaller camps that are surrounding
that one, and.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I have my traditional I guess it is the traditional
now tea in my super dad mug that my family
got for me. So shouts out to my family, Mary
and Alex.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Mary doesn't listen to this, but Alex does eventually maybe possibly.
So let's get right into it. So little background, I
guess you guys or some of you know. I was
born in Uban Rachatani in Thailand and it was a
refugee camp.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And when I started.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Doing research into the refugee camps, I didn't know how
dangerous it was. I always thought I was doing fine,
like I didn't feel like I was in any danger
at any point. I didn't know how bad things actually were.
(01:26):
So when it was a real eye opener when I
did the research into this, and so hopefully you guys
follow along and you'll learn a couple of things too.
So let's get started. Uba and Ratatani, Thailand was home
to several refugee camps during and after the Vietnam War,
especially in the late nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. These
(01:50):
camps primarily housed refugees from Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, those who
were fleeing the war, political persecution, as well as economic hardships.
So we've already talked about the Cambodian refugees, and we're
going to add the Vietnamese refugees as well as well
(02:12):
as my parents the Laotian refugees who fled during and
after the Vietnam War. As Vietnam starts taking over Laos.
Because I don't really know why they took it, I
guess it was strategic. I mean, Laos does have a
lot of resources, so I can see why that would
be a thing. The camps Uban and Ratchatani during and
(02:35):
after the Vietnam War. Between nineteen fifty five and nineteen
seventy five, Thailand became a critical refugee a refuge for
people fleeing neighboring countries. Uban Ratchatani, located in northeastern Thailand
near the Laos border, became a hub for several refugee camps.
So we're going to talk about four of the main
(02:56):
ones that are centralized in that area. So one was
non Mune Camp located near the Cambodian border. This camp
primarily housed Cambodian refugees escaping the Khmer Rouge regime. Number
two was Bunoi Camp, a smaller, lesser known camp that
(03:19):
temporarily held refugees before they were moved to the larger
camps or eventually resettled. Number three was the Banvinai refugee camp,
though in the low A province. It was closely connected
to Uben's refugee movement. One of the most well known camps,
(03:39):
housing mostly Mung refugees. The Mong people helped the US
a lot, especially during the Vietnam War and the war
that never happened, the Secret War on Laws, and so
they were heavily persecuted when the Americans pulled out and
they were systematic hunt it down. I would hear stories
(04:02):
of gunfire in the mountains and that was that was
the Mungs being again systematically executed for how dare you
help the United States? So number four Panatonkom Processing Center
not in Uban, but important to mention this was a
(04:26):
major processing center for refugees approved for resettlement in third countries,
often after staying in the smaller camps. So the refugees
who were they we.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Got a little bit into it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So now we're going to get a little deeper, deeper,
dive into it. The people who passed through these camps
came from war torn backgrounds, each with unique struggles. Laotian
refugees many were ethnic Mung or lowland Lao who had
worked with the US in the secret War against communism
in Laos. After Potato Lao to control in nineteen seventy five,
(05:01):
they were targeted for persecution, leading to a mass exodus.
Some cross the Mekong River into Thailand under deadly conditions.
If you guys have never seen the Mekong River, it
is big. It is big, The rapids are fast, it
is very deep, and the Mekong River is pretty much
(05:23):
like the Amazon River in South America. It has an
entire fishing industry. Like the shipping cargo ships go through
the Meecong River. That's how deep and wide it is.
So people would escape and have to go cross that river.
Not to mention that they were giant catfish and the
(05:44):
stingrays that are also in those rivers river monsters shut out.
But yeah, extremely extremely dangerous to do so, especially at night,
because that's when that's when a lot of the refugees
would make their move. Imbodian refugees, which we talked about
a few weeks ago, they fled the Khmara Rouge genocide
from nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy nine, where one
(06:08):
point five to two million people died. Some escaped from
forced labor camps or brutal purges. Many crossed into Thailand
during the Vietnam invasion of Cambodia in nineteen seventy nine.
Basically they had already lost everything. So a lot of
those people who just decided just to pick up and
(06:28):
leave because of all the memory, all the trauma that
was going on in Cambodia at the time, and they
figured a fresh start would be would be ideal. Vietnamese
refugees escaped from the fall of Saigon in nineteen seventy
five included former South Vietnamese military personnel, government officials, and
their families. Some were boat people, others fled overland to
(06:52):
Cambodia or into Thailand. If you go to Ah, I
forget what the bay is now. It's a very famous
bay in Vietnam. But there's lots of people who live
on boats. They're born on the boats, they die on
the boats. A lot of them don't even come to
land unless they needed like supplies or something like that.
So that's what the boat people were. So let's talk
(07:16):
about daily life in the Uban Ratchatani refugee camps. Life
in the camps was a constant struggle for survival, with
refugees relying on limited rations, makeshift shelters, and a strict,
often hostile environment controlled by Thai authorities. Despite these hardships,
many found ways to adapt, creating a semblance of normalcy
through community education, even small businesses. So I talked to
(07:41):
my dad about the living conditions in the refugee camps,
and he didn't tell me much when I was a kid,
you know, I guess again sheltering me. But when I
talked to him recently as I was doing research on this,
he said Yeah, things were bad, like patrols would come
around and harassed the refugees, looking at them as if
(08:03):
they were lower classed people. Food was rationed out. I remember,
I do remember some of these things where it's like
we would get cans of a fish and they were
like in like a tomato sauce, and I never liked it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It didn't taste good, but that's what we had to eat.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And there were times when we would trade those cans
for like a French baguette and like condensed milk, because
that's what I enjoyed eating. And I didn't think about
it at the time, but like a can of fish
would feed an entire family, and that French baguette with
(08:49):
like a little bit of condensed milk would just feed me.
They my parents traded what could have been an entire
day meal just so I could have something sweet to enjoy.
And again, I was very sheltered as a kid, and
I am thinking about it now, like you know, threads
(09:11):
are starting to connect. But again I always thought I
was doing great, you know as a kid. I like
the very first episode, I was talking about how I
would just walk around with my friends, you know, which
is a sure no, no underwear or nothing, just pop
in squad and wherever I went. And that's how I
thought life was. But as I'm now digging deeper into
(09:34):
what refugee camps actually were, how controlled they were, and
how strict things were, and again being harassed by the
Thai military and some former Thai military would just calm
and shake people down for you know, for change or
(09:54):
something like that. So you know, I'm thinking about that now.
My parents didn't eat because I wanted something sweet, you know,
that completely selfish of me, but again that's what parents do,
and I completely appreciate everything that they've done. I'm here,
(10:16):
I'm in the US because my parents, who didn't speak
a lick of English.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Sacrificed so much.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So yes, I am incredibly grateful, and that's why I'm
doing what I'm doing right now, why I'm doing this
episode right now. So thanks Mama.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Ded So.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Shelter and living conditions. Most shelters were made of bamboo,
thatched roof and plastic sheets provided by the UNHCR. We'll
talk about them more Overcrowding was severe. Families of six
to ten people crammed into small huts. Monsoon season turned
everything into mud, making conditions worse. There was no electricity.
(10:56):
Light came from candles, kerosene lamps, or small fires at night.
Food and cooking. The UNHDR provided basic rations rice sometimes
rotten or full of bugs, dried fish or canned meats,
which was rare. Again I've talked about this. Salt and
(11:17):
fish sauce often diluted, cooking oil ration and sometimes stolen
or traded. Fresh food was scarce, so people foraged for
wild vegetables, mushrooms, and bamboo shoots in the jungle. Some
refugees did raise chickens or pigs, but they had to
be hidden because tie guards sometimes confiscated them. Cooking was
(11:40):
done over wooden fires, often using makeshift stoves made from
clay or stones.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
M Remember.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Remember the first episode of you guys have been Listening
for that long time where I said I was complete dick.
As a kid, I would steal my neighbors chickens eggs
and throw them against the water tank, mainly because I
liked the sound of eggs cracking against metal. And now
(12:13):
again as a more adult, reading how scarce UH, researching
how scarce food was and that chickens had to be
hidden away and eggs were were scarce, and fresh fresh
food was scarce for that matter. Now, again, in hindsight,
(12:38):
I was definitely a dick, and I definitely deserved all
the beatings I got in the camp. I think I
I I think I probably am the most beaten kid
in the entire refugee camp.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Rightfully, so I was not a very good.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Kid, and I was very spoiled because again I was sheltered.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I was made to believe I was special. I suppose.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Food and sanitation water came from communal wells or rain collection.
In some camps, the only water source was from a
nearby river, which was often polluted. Bathing and laundry were
done in the open, often muddy water. Toilets were communal
pit latrines, overflowing and full of flies. Diarrhea dysenteria were common,
(13:31):
especially among children. We're gonna get graphic here, because again,
if I'm gonna go full disclosure, let's go full disclosure.
So we did communal kids did communal bathing, and like
this little trough, and that very same bathing water was
(13:51):
also laundry water. And a lot of times when it
didn't rain, we didn't have water, so we would just
bathe in like these. I wouldn't say there were rivers,
but they were. There was running water from somewhere in
a ditch.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And that's where we would bathe.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And I remember very vividly one night my butt was itching, itching,
very badly, and so I would I told my parents,
my mom and my dad, and I had found out,
(14:39):
or I didn't find out, they had found out that
there were maggots in my bum because I was not.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
A clean kid. And so there we are.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'm laying now and my mom is picking maggots out
of my butt and throwing them into the fire, and
I can hear them, and like suddenly, the the itching
and and the uh, you know, the weird sensation I
guess was done because she had gotten them all.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
So again in the.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
In the base of being on in the open and
Alex listening to this, I want you to know, you know,
the struggles we went through as a kid. So, yeah,
sanitation was not a thing. So I remember during the
monsoon season when it rained really hard, we would all
go out and bathe because that was the cleanest water
(15:42):
we were ever going to get in a.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Very long time.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Even the even the water, the rain water collection was
a metal drum, a big metal drum, and I'm pretty
sure it was rusted on the inside.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I never saw it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
But the trough that we bathed was always dirty anyway,
so I really couldn't tell if it was clean water
or dirty water. But when the monsoon seasons hit, you know,
we all went out communal bathing and the women would
put on serrongs and cover themselves up, but they would bathe,
and yeah, again, that was the cleanest we were going
(16:19):
to be for a very long time. So daily routine
and survival. I got this from my dad. Morning from
four thirty to seven am, people woke up early to
fetch water, start fires, and prepare the daily rations of
rice porridge kopiuk, which is just water, salt and rice.
(16:46):
Some families sent children to collect woods or forage for
food in the forest. If they were lucky, Refugees with
money would buy small fish, eggs, or dried chili peppers
from tie vendors outside the camp. From seven to four pm,
daytime rations were distributed. Ration distributions happened once a week.
(17:07):
People lined up for hours under the sun. I remember
my dad waiting line. My mom and I would watch
my dad waiting in line, and he would again go
go get from these trucks or sometimes they were like,
you know, a little little cars, but these trucks would
(17:30):
come in and my dad would wait in line, and
they would ration off these and some fish in tomato sauce.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And you can buy them now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
You can go to the Asian store and you can
buy these cans of fish and tomato sauce. And I
I was so sick of it, but that's all we had.
And so it was protein, you know, it's all you
really needed. And I remember my parents coming back and
just being so proud that they got a certain amount
of cans.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And again, you.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Know, as a kid, you're like little fish in tomato sauce.
But we made it work somehow. So ration distribution once
a week.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
People that haven't run us UD.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Some refugees worked illegally in Thai farms, sneaking out of
camp at night and returning before sunrise. Children attended makeshift
schools if the camp had one. Adults tried to learn
English or French in hopes of being resettled. In the evening,
between four and nine pm, families gathered to cook dinner,
(18:36):
usually a simple meal of rice and boiled greens. Some
people held secret religious ceremonies, be them Buddhist prayers, Christian gatherings,
or Animis rituals. The night was dangerous again, I was
already asleep. I didn't know this, but this is for
my dad. The night was dangerous. Thai soldiers sometimes would
(18:59):
raid homes, fights broke out between different refugee groups, and
these would happen randomly, like it's not every night.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Obviously it was every.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Night, I would remember it. But these things did happen,
and I do remember hearing screaming outside the hut and
just loudness.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But again.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
A lot of alcohol also made it into play, like
people made moonshine at home, and people drank. You know,
it's it's a thing, so that's usually when people get loud.
I just assumed they were just fighting because they were drunk,
but turns out could have been Thai soldiers raiding homes
as well. Educations in school.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Only.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Some camps had Yuan supported schools, often ran by refugee volunteers.
Classes were held outdoors or under bamboo huts. Subjects included
basic literacy, Thie English, and math, but supplies were scared.
Children would use charcoal and banana leaves instead of notebooks.
Some older students would train in vocational skills like sewing
(20:08):
or farming to prepare for resettlement. The economy and the
black market, I didn't really see too much of these things,
Like I do remember there were small shops outside, just
outside the fences. You can almost like if you think
(20:32):
of a shop that had like a gate that came
down at night and then went up during the morning,
that's that's what these little like little vendor shops would be.
And we had a movie theater actually if I remember correctly,
And so these would come down and they would shut
down at night, and then in the morning they would
open up. Since refugees weren't allowed to leave the camps,
(20:53):
a hidden economy emerge.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Bartering.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Rice was traded for vegetables, soap, or medicine. Illegal vendor
Thai merchants sold goods at inflate prices, sometimes sneaking in
through the guards smuggling. Some refugees secretly crossed into thaie
villages to.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Work or trade bribery.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Thai soldiers were often paid off to allow people to
escape or bring in extra food. Remember like these these
guys were constant. I only remember vague pieces of like
seeing people in military uniform Again, I was eighty three
eighty four, so I was like two three years old,
(21:37):
so I vaguely remember seeing people.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I do remember.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Fences, and I do remember seeing like a lot of
people in green outfits, but I don't I don't remember
if they were military fatigues or not. Again, a lot
of the people who are in the refugee camps were
former military, former allow military, and they usually would bring
(22:01):
their military uniform with them. I don't know why, So
it could have been or I could have been seeing
those uniforms as opposed to the Thai uniforms, or I
could have seen the Thai uniforms and just not known
I did. Security and violence. The camps were often surrounded
by fences, barbed wire, and armed Thai soldiers. Refugees were
(22:24):
not allowed to leave unless they had special permission. Fights
would break out between different ethnic groups, sometimes leading to deaths.
Thai soldiers were known to abuse power, often extorting refugees
or committing assaults against women. Armed bandits or former soldiers
raided some camps, stealing food or taking revenge on old enemies.
(22:45):
So again I heard screaming at night. I heard loud
shouting and I just assumed it was just you know,
drunk old men who got too hot in the sauce.
Sorry teaper Hope and resettlement. Despite the hardships, many refugees
held on to hope that they would eventually be resettled.
(23:08):
Families applied for refugee status with the un HCR, waiting
months or years for approval. Some were sent to processing
centers like Panatony Coom, which is where we eventually ended
up before leaving for the US, France, Canada or Australia.
Others never got that chance, being forcibly repatriated to Laos
(23:33):
or Cambodia. Life in the urban refugee camps were or was,
a test of endurance. Every day was a battle for food, water,
and survival. But even in the face of suffering, communities formed,
friendships were made and people found ways to keep hope alive.
(23:55):
Can you imagine like, well, I guess you don't have
to imagine that anymore in our day and age, but escaping,
fleeing for your life and escaping you know, Laos at
the time or Cambodia at the time when you were
being hunted when you're being persecuted and then all of
a sudden it's like, hey, we don't have room for you,
(24:16):
so you're.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Gonna have to go back. Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, I just can't I wouldn't be able to imagine that. Obviously,
I can't imagine that because I'm a US citizen. Now
that doesn't really mean anything, I guess, but yeah, I
mean not for nothing. I've been talking to my dad
on this. He can't go back to Laos to this
very day. So let's think about that. Like if he
(24:45):
was to be sent back, or if he somehow found
his way back into Laos, he would be arrested as
a as a war criminal because he quote unquote fought
against the people. So yeah, I hope that never happened. Obviously,
the long wait resettlement and repatriot repeat repatriation, ha, it's
(25:13):
a long night. So many refugees stayed in the camps
for years waiting for resettlement in third countries. The US, France, Canada,
and Australia took in many many refugees. The process was long,
requiring background checks, sponsorships, and interviews. Some families were split
up split up due to bureaucracy issues. Yeah, our family
(25:39):
was sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ in Latter
day Saints. I remember that vividly because we had to
go to church every Sunday and I had to go
to Sunday School, which I actually enjoyed. I actually enjoyed
Sunday School. I learned about the Bible. I learned about
(25:59):
the Wall of Jericho and David and Goliath. I learned
a lot. And that's I got most of my English
from Sunday School. So I mean, I will say that
I appreciate it. I appreciate learning about you know. I
learned about Jesus, learned about God, learned about Samson and
(26:23):
all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It was.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It was kind of cool because it was we didn't
have TV at home, so I got all these vivid
stories from Sunday School. And as I got older, I
started to think that maybe the church we belonged to
was a cult. Because again I'm just repeating myself here,
but I remember getting on a bus on Sunday and
(26:46):
then going out to a farm, and then from the farm,
I'm sorry, from the bus, we were walking towards the barn,
and we slowly started getting separated between boys and girls.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Got separated. Then you know, the boys.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Would go one away, the girls would go the other way,
and then suddenly the ages were getting separated. So like
five and six year olds over here, seven to eight
over here, and every room we went into didn't have
any windows. We didn't actually see any animals at the farm.
(27:22):
And all of our teachers, I guess all of our
teachers were over really happy, like too smiley, too welcoming,
and I just had a weird vibe. And I'm to
this day, I am a vibe person like I can
kind of see if I'm gonna like you or not
(27:42):
just by being around you for a little bit. And
I've always gotten a weird vibe to the point that
I told my parents, I don't want to go here anymore.
I don't want to go to Sunday School anymore. And thankfully,
like we have already established ourselves in the US, we've
already gotten green cards, residential alien cards, you want to
call it, and so we didn't have to anymore. I
(28:04):
just enjoyed it until I didn't enjoy it anymore, and
then I told my parents I didn't want to go,
and my parents told Rocky, told Rocky, the guy who
was responsible for picking us up all the time every
Sunday that we didn't want to go anymore, and he
was fine with it. My last day, I remember this vividly.
My last day, I got off the bus and he
(28:26):
got me off the bus and he picked me up
and he spun me around. You know, he was just
picked me up in his arms and spun me around.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
He was always a really cool guy. And that was
the end of it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
He put me down and he said, you know, I'll
see you again, I guess, And that was it. And
I never saw him again. But yeah, I see people
like that, like leave lasting impressions on you because of
he was a good guy. He was really was good
to us, and he was never me and he was
(28:56):
never he was always happy. And that was what bothered me.
People who are too happy all the time, Like there's
got to be some skeletons there. So I never saw
any of that stuff. But again, it just felt weird.
Where was I that that repatriation to home countries. Some
Laotians and Cambodians were forcibly repatriated despite fears of persecution.
(29:21):
Vietnam and Laos had re education camps where returnees were
sometimes sent, some chose to stay in Thailand, forming small
refugee communities. Legacy and impact of the refugee camps. The
refugee camps in Ubuen Ratzatani played a major role in
(29:42):
shaping Southeast Asian dysphoria worldwide. Thai influence on the refugee
camp included many Laotian and Cambodian dishes having Thai influences
due to years spent in the camps. Mong Lao and
Khmand communities in the US have grown strong with Turis,
with traditions adapted to their new homes. Which is why
(30:04):
we are called the Golden Triangle Laos, Thailand and Cambodia.
Is because we're neighbors. We share culture, we share things.
So Moi Thai, for instance, Moi Thai is a martial
art made famous in Thailand. There's also moi lao. There's
(30:24):
a moi kame and so moi means fighting, by the way,
and so different styles, same same, same styles, different techniques.
There you are, that's how you put it. The dancing
is also very similar to each other. So food and
(30:44):
all that, it's all the same. That's because of the
melting pot that we have here. Psychological trauma. Many survivors
still struggle with PTSD from the war and camp life.
So imagine you fought a war, your side lost, and
then all of a sudden, you are in these camps.
You're no longer in your house. You are sharing them
(31:06):
with you know, six, eight, ten different strangers, and you're
all cramped in together. And you know, you hear gunshots,
you hear screaming and shouting and fights breaking out. That's
got to do something to your psyche. I mean, my
dad is still I would say, as bluntly as possible,
(31:30):
my dad is still messed up to this day. When
Alex was born and my dad had quit smoking for
a very very long time, I would say, nineteen eighty eight, yeah,
we were still we're in conkif so nineteen eighty eight, yeah,
(31:51):
my dad had quit smoking. And when Alex was born,
he hed gotten very worried about Alex because obviously first grandson,
the grandson, and so he had started smoking again. It
wasn't a lot, It wasn't like he used to smoke
all the time. He used to smoke in the camps,
(32:11):
and he would smoke all the time in the camps.
He would hand roll so he would smoke all the time.
But then when I brought Alex over for the first
time when they when they met for the first time,
I had noticed my dad had started smoking, and I
was like, why are you smoking? And he's like, oh,
I was just worried about Alex, you know, I was
worried making sure he's okay, like I don't see him,
(32:34):
like I've never met him before, like this is the
first time we've laid eyes on each other. And so
he was very stressed out about that. So he started
smoking again, and so we put we had put Alex
to bed, and Alex was in an unfamiliar place, so
he didn't go down easy. He didn't he didn't go
(32:56):
to sleep right away, so he would cry. And obviously
if we had intervened, he would just start playing again,
thinking he was playtime, and he wouldn't go to sleep.
So we just had to let him cry. And I
noticed my dad like just twitching, just like very irritable,
and you know, Alex is crying. We can hear Alex crying,
(33:18):
and he was just getting like twitchy, like his hands
were shaking. And again, this is this is coming from
me who was at the time a mental health worker.
So I was trained to watch people's mannerisms, especially people
who who had PTSD or who had suicidal tendencies or thoughts,
(33:41):
and I had to see if there was a trigger
that was about to happen. So I had to be
very observant. And my dad's hands were shaking, he was
rocking back and forth, and so he had gotten up,
and I wasn't worried. He'd gotten up, and he had
gone outside and my mom, my step mom, had come
(34:04):
down and you know, she was looking for him. I said, oh,
he went outside, and so she went outside too, and they.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Were out there for quite.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Some time, and my stepmom would come back in and
she comes over to me, and very quietly, she was
confiding to me that my dad was was having an
anxiety attack because of Alex's crying and because he remembered
(34:32):
all the kids just crying in the middle of the
night in the refugee camp, and he was just having
an anxiety attack, and so he had to go outside.
And it was more impactful for him because it was
his grandson that was crying, and he felt helpless. He
felt like he couldn't do anything, and so he went
outside and just started smoking, and so my step mom
(34:55):
was confiding that in me, and you know, I had
to talk to him about it, and we we still
talked about now. And he's better, obviously because he sees
Alex more. He he does video calls if he does
miss Alex a lot, or or roll call him if
we don't hear from them after a while. So obviously
things have gotten better now that Alex is older, and
(35:16):
now that you know he's he's more robust, and and
so that was just a thing that that still affects
my father to this day. And so when I talked
to him a couple of weeks ago about this, I
asked him about that, and he said, yeah, it's it's
It still haunts him that he would hear kids crying
(35:38):
at night and the next night they wouldn't cry because
they were sick or unfortunately they had passed, and so
he could tell whose kids these were, just like I
can tell Alex's cry between every other kid's cry. When
Alex got hurt a couple of weeks ago at the playground,
(36:00):
I heard a loud yelp and then a cry, and
in a playground of fifty kids, I knew where my
kid was I knew my kid was hurt. I knew
he wanted his parents, and I knew exactly where he
was in a sea of kids. And so my dad
(36:21):
was explaining that to me, how he knew these babies
when they were born, He saw them being born, and
he would hear their cries in the middle of the night,
and you know, if he hurt them again the next night, great,
but sometimes he didn't, and he would fear that, you know,
one of those cries were me, even though I was
(36:45):
right next to him. So he still has that to
this day. So hearing a baby cry like just kind
of triggers him, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So, yeah, PTSD is real.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Detailed timelines of the Uban Ratchatani refugee camps from nineteen
seventy five to nineteen ninety seven is when the last
refugee camp in Thailand closed, So from nineteen seventy five
to nineteen eighty. The influx begins nineteen seventy five. After
the fall of Saigon on April thirtieth, the Communist takeover
(37:20):
of Laos and Cambodia, thousands of refugees began crossing into
the border. From nineteen seventy six to nineteen seventy eight,
the Thai government, with the support from the UNHCR, began
establishing official refugee camps, including those in Uban Ratchatani. In
nineteen seventy nine, the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia leads to
(37:40):
a massive new wave of refugees. That's when the Vietnamese
took out the Khmer Rouge. From nineteen eighty to nineteen
eighty nine the peak years in international resettlement. Nineteen eighty
to nineteen eighty five, camps like Nai Mun Punoi and
others in Uban reached their highest populations. The US, France, Canada,
(38:04):
and Australia began large scale resettlement efforts. Nineteen eighty seven,
Thai policy shifts towards discouraging new refugee arrivals, leading to
an increase of deportations. Nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety seven,
the camp closures and final refugees leave, so in nineteen
ninety two, Thailand, LAOS and the UNHCR signed a repatriation agreement,
(38:29):
forcing many llow refugees to return. Nineteen ninety five to
nineteen ninety seven, the last remaining camps, including nonm Mune,
closed as Thai pushes as Thailand pushes for all refugees
to be resettled or repatriated. So let's talk about the camps. Now, sorry,
(38:49):
I'm all over the place, so these notes are also
all over the place. So let's talk about the refugee camps.
Number one nonm Mune Refugee Camp nineteen ninety seven or
I'm sorry nineteen seventy nine to nineteen ninety seven. It
was located near the Cambodian border, mostly Cambodian refugees fleeing
(39:09):
the Kahmara Rouge and later the Vietnamese occupation. Notable events
that happened there. In the early nineteen eighties, Non Mune
was overcrowded, leading to a disease outbreak. Thai authorities forcibly
repatriated some refugees despite concerns for their safety, and it
was closed in nineteen ninety seven. The last refugees were
(39:30):
either resettled or sent back to Cambodia. Camp Bunoi nineteen
seventies to the mid nineteen nineties. It was located in
the forces of Ubu and Ratatani. Often used as a
temporary camp, it was a mixture of Laotian and Cambodian
refugees awaiting transfer to larger camps or to the processing center.
(39:52):
The conditions were extremely poor infrastructure, with limited water and
food supplies. Many refugees lived in make shift tents for years.
It finally closed as many refugees transferred out to bigger
camps in the early nineteen nineties. Bonvni nineteen seventy nine
(40:14):
to nineteen ninety two was a Mung refugee hub. Although
not in Uban, bonvin I played a critical role in
process seeing Laotian refugees. Many passed through Ubun before reaching Bonvinay,
mostly among people who had worked in the US military
or worked with the US military during the Vietnam War,
lived in Bonvini.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Conditions were a lot more.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
A lot better at Bonvini because of the strong sense
of the Mung community, with makeshift schools and markets. However,
very little freedom of movement and food was tightly controlled.
In nineteen ninety two, the Thai government shut it down,
pressuring refugees to return to laos ny Coombe Processing Center.
(41:01):
From nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety four, the last stop
before you were resettled. This is where the story takes place.
Where we were getting on the school bus. And I
had been a brat wanting to take my pet caterpillar
with us, and my dad had finally had enough and said,
(41:25):
all right, fine, we will take the caterpillar. And when
we finally got to the caterpillar nests in my little
corner of the hut, it was gone.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
So we had almost missed.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The bus because I was being a brat. And this
was in Panatony Coombe, so it was near the near Bangkok,
not Uban, but crucial for processing refugees from the Uban camp.
This center was where refugees approved for resettlement went before
leaving for their new countries. Many Laotians, Cambodians, and Vietnamese
(41:59):
passed through here before flying to the US, Canada or Australia.
It was shut down in nineteen ninety four after resettlement
programs wounded down. So I do remember the trip and
I would refresh the memories of you guys. We got
on the bus at Panatony coom and it was a
yellow school bus and as we were driving down the road,
(42:22):
I do remember looking out the window and seeing people
working the fields. This is the first time we actually
that I remember leaving the camp, even though we had
been in a previous refugee camp and people were working
the fields and they had the uh, they had the
rice patty hats.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I do remember that, and.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
You know, I was just I was just thinking, like,
where are we going next, because I'd never been on
a vehicle before. I don't remember being on a vehicle,
and so I just thought this was a great adventure.
Next thing, you know, I am, it's nighttime and we're
in a tram on on a tarmac and we were
(43:06):
on our way to get on a plane, and I
think at this point we were in France or going
to France.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
And then flash forward to.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
My next memory is we are in New York City
and this is the infamous, the infamous water fountain incident
where my dad has had never seen a water fountain before,
and I was thirsty, and so he tilted my head in,
but he would also press the water at the same time,
So he would press the water button at the same
(43:36):
time and lean my head in and the water would
just splash my face. And I remember, I remember telling
you guys about this, but it wasn't one time, it
wasn't two times, it wasn't even three times. But I'm
pretty sure my dad had to try to drown me
at that point. That's where my fear of water came from,
what I was told. I used to be able to
(43:58):
swim very well, and suddenly I'm in America and my
dad's trying to drown me in a water fountain in
the airport, and suddenly I don't know how to swim.
So H put two and two together, t brick my
tea's cold again. Oh well, so why did the camps close?
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Well?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Political pressure from Thailand. By the early nineteen nineties, Thailand's
pretty much gotten tired of having all these refugees there,
so they no longer wanted to host refugees and push
for repatriotation. Man repaytriation, repatriation. I typed this, I should
be able to read it repatriation.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Many were forcibly returned to Laos and Cambodia, even after
even if they faced danger. The UNHCR resettlement and repatriation programs.
From the late nineteen eighties to the late two the
nineteen nineties, the UNHCR worked with Western countries to resettle refugees.
Those who weren't resettled were sent back to their home countries.
(45:09):
The end of the Cold War also shut down a
lot of the camps. With the fall of the Soviet Union,
global political landscapes changed and the US support for Southeast
Asian refugees decreased and resettlement programs were slowed down. So
the final refugees? Where did they go? So? What happened
(45:29):
to the last of the refugees. Many among refugees returned
or refused to return to Laos due to fear of persecution.
Some hid in Thai villages and sought asylum in the US.
The Cambodian refugees had an easier time returning to Cambodia
as it was stabilizing in the late nineteen nineties. Some
stateless individuals remained in Thailand without official recognition for years.
(45:54):
Where did they resettle? Many who left Ubun's camps ended
up in the United States, mainly in California, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Texas,
and North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
France.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
A large Laotian and Cambodian community formed in Paris and
other cities Canada and Australia. I have family in Canada.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
So Canada and Australia took in many Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees.
So what are the what's the lasting legacy of the
refugee camps. Well, the Desporia communities. Refugees who passed through
BUN helped shape Southeast Asian communities worldwide. Many survivors suffered
from PTSD due to the war, camp conditions and force repatriation.
(46:46):
Haha and thaie and lust food influenced each other. Due
to refugee presents, traditions like Long New Year and law
festivals became common in resettled areas. So now if you
go to like Califorfornia or northern I'm sorry, Northern California,
like stocked in Fresno, those places, you have what's called Sabaidifes,
(47:07):
which is a Laos festival every year now and it's
it's pretty big, Like they get celebrities from Thailand and
from you know, from the United States to show up there,
and it's big. Minnesota has a huge Lao and Mong community.
I forget who's who's the who's the girl from the
(47:30):
United States gymnastics team, She's monk and so hey shouts
out represent and Jesse the body of Ventur when he
was the governor of Minnesota, spoke a lot about Laos,
spoke a lot about how he loved the Lao people,
how he wished he could have helped more.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And he was a.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Vietnam vet and he was there, he knew about the war.
He wished he could have spoken out more about it,
and he to this day he still speaks about it.
So I mean, shouts out to you, Jesse Venture. I
can't hate the guy, can't. He's a really really cool guy.
Good movie Starry too, Not gonna lie. He actually did
some pretty decent movies. So big summary. Now, what was there?
Speaker 2 (48:25):
What was it like? Again?
Speaker 1 (48:30):
It was.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
For me, it was fine.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
I didn't I didn't really experience any of the hardships
that my parents experienced.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
So I don't know. I don't.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm I'm a little crossed about it because I wish
I knew more about it before I did the first
episode where I said everything was hunky dory, everything you know,
I was.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
I was a complete dick as a kid.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I do remember like growing up alongside these two girls,
and I wish our families that kept in touch because
they were my best friends. These two girls, they were
sisters and in the camp, they were my best friends.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
As far as.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I know, my dad believes they went to Minnesota, and
then we lost Minnesota, and then we lost contact with
them ever since.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Another thing that.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Again full disclosure, I guess we're not gonna be embarrassedor
Another thing that happened in refugee camps or in LAO
culture is arranged marriages. And I am here to say
that I was in an arranged marriage. To arrange marriages,
(49:55):
I don't even know how that happened, but I met
both of them. I've met both women now that I
was arranged to or arranged to be wedded too.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, that's how I'm gonna word it. One of them
lives in Florida. Last I checked. Last I knew.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
I met her.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I met her as an adult. I met well, I
wouldn't say that as a teenager. I met her ninety seven. Yeah,
in nineteen ninety seven, and she was a cool chick,
really really cool girl, and we actually talked about it.
We talked about our family wanting us to Oh. I
(50:41):
guess they didn't want us to get married. I guess
it was just an agreement, because you know, that's that's
what they did there in case they didn't have a
legacy in case they didn't have an air or something
like that. Your kid was gonna marry my kid and
we're gonna be friends forever, that sort.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Of thing, And so we talked about that.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
We had a good life about it, and I unfortunately
I lost contact with her not too long after that.
But I think she's still around. I have people who
know her, so I still I can.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Ask about her, I guess. And the second one found
me on my Space.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Remember in my Space, and we are well, it's weird
to say that we are related now, but again that's
how things were, not closely related, not first cousins.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
We're not from Virginia.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
A place for lovers of cousins, but we are related.
And I met her a few times and we kept
in contact for a bit and then we lost contact,
but we still know of eat each other. Obviously I'm
married now, she's married now, so it's all good. But
(52:06):
it's just weird that we got to connect like that,
because a lot of times you don't. When you leave
the refugee camps, you lose all your connections. And for
us to stay connected like that after a while, and
the Internet is great, I will say, there are certain
things about the Internet that is awful obviously, but again,
(52:28):
being connected with somebody you were betrothed to and finding
each other on MySpace and then reconnecting on Facebook, things
like that, that is cool. A lot of my research with
the Cambodian genocide was done through reaching out through Facebook,
through finding out people who were living in refugee camps,
(52:50):
who were in the same refugee camps as my family
during that time. I reached out to a couple of
those people and they responded really great, and I wouldn't
be able to do this episode without a lot of
those people, and especially my parents. I didn't really ask
my mom because I don't know. My mom and I talk,
(53:11):
but we never go deep like my dad does.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
So there we are. Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
So life and refugee camps were a test of endurance.
Every day was a battle for food and water and survival,
and even in the face of suffering, communities formed, friendships
were made, and people found ways to keep hope alive. Definitely,
obviously I am a shining example of refugee camps. So yeah,
(53:44):
the struggles of refugee camps and I guess this is
this is a podcast about struggles of being a parent.
And unfortunately, Alex, your father didn't really ruggle too much
in the refugee camp. Your father lived a pretty sheltered
life in the refugee camp. Your grandparents, on the other hand,
(54:07):
suffered a lot.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
And so that's why I preach.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
And tell you to show them the utmost respect when
you go to their house. There's a reason for that.
They've earned it. They've earned my respect, They've earned Mary's
respect because of what they were able to accomplish with
very little. And so when you go to their house
and I know that you are the honorable grandson and
(54:39):
you can do no wrong and your parents have no
power at Boo and Yah's house, you still show them
that respect. And I'm glad you understand that. I'm glad
that every time you go there, even when you were younger,
you knew that there were boundaries there and there was
(55:02):
some respect there and you never crossed them. So I
do appreciate that, I really do. And so that is
the end of tonight's episode. Glad for you guys sticking
with me. Repatriation ha. So that is the word of
the day, repatriation. But it is a very long night
(55:24):
I am very tired. There was a lot of notes here,
and my tee's gone cold. I need to keep a
what's that thing where the mug that has like that
stays hot?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I need to get that. I'll have to look that up.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
But again, I appreciate you guys listening, and I will
catch you guys next week. Where again, this is a
serious episode. So next week's gonna have to be a
failer episode. So next week we are going to be
talking about the hidden history of New Hampshire, because I
like talking about New Hampshire to talk about things that
(56:02):
you guys probably didn't I didn't even know a lot
about about New Hampshire, and about people who you may
have heard of. Let's talk about people like Paul Revere
and how he was court martialed by the US, or
(56:26):
not the US at the time, but by the Americans.
Let's talk about Benedict Arnold and how he was actually
a big time hero. A lot of people don't know
about that, but he was a big hero before he
was pretty much backstabbed by the Americans, which led to
his quote unquote betrayal. But I mean the man was
(56:49):
pushed to it. So we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker 2 (56:52):
We're going to.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Talk about the first Black regiment of the American Revolution
and talk about Sybil Lootington, who you guys probably never
even heard of, but she played a huge role in
the American Revolution and she does not deserve to be forgotten.
(57:16):
So we're gonna talk about Sibil Lootington. We're gonna talk
about Paul Revere getting court martialed because he was not
a very good military guy, and talk about benadic Arnold
and why I believe he was a hero before the betrayal.
So thank you for listening, and I appreciate each and
(57:37):
every single one of you, especially new listeners in Germany.
Speaker 2 (57:41):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
So I will talk to you guys next week as always,
Bob and Young, no worries, See you guys.
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