June 12, 2025 • 43 mins
Kristi Docwra shares insights about intuitive eating, a science-backed approach that helps us reject diet mentality and rebuild trust with our bodies to find freedom in how we nourish ourselves.
• Intuitive eating is about connecting with bodily cues and rebuilding interoceptive awareness
• Mindful eating focuses on the eating experience while intuitive eating addresses the diet mentality
• Children are naturally intuitive eaters until external rules override their natural abilities
• Rejecting the diet mentality means challenging temporary, restrictive approaches that don't work long-term
• Honor your hunger by recognizing body signals before reaching extreme hunger
• Use the STOP technique (Stop, Take breaths, Observe, Proceed) to manage emotional eating
• Challenge the "food police" that assign moral value to food choices
• Practice respecting your body for what it can do rather than focusing on appearance
• Intuitive eating helps bring joy back to food experiences instead of making meals just about nutrition
Join Kristi's mindfulness sessions through Work Well Texas to practice techniques that support intuitive eating.
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Episode Transcript
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Kristi Docwra (00:00):
When things start to impact the way you're living
your life and the way you'reinteracting and experiencing
life.
That's where intuitive eatingcan be very supportive and
challenging some of thosethoughts and bringing the joy
back to your food experiencesand not making it just about the
food but about the fullexperience.
Lacy Wolff (00:23):
Have you ever found yourself constantly judging your
body?
Or maybe you've been caught inone of those tug of wars between
the so-called good and badfoods, unsure of what to eat,
when to eat or even why you'reeating in the first place?
If any of that hits close tohome, today's episode of the
Buena Vida podcast might just bethe game changer you're looking
for.
Before we dive in, a quickdisclaimer this conversation is
(00:46):
for educational andinformational purposes only and
is not intended for medicaladvice.
Always talk to a qualifiedhealthcare provider about your
individual healthcare needs.
My name is Lacey Wolff.
I'm the coordinator forstatewide wellbeing initiatives
and the host of the Buena Vidapodcast.
I'm so happy you're joining ustoday.
We are going to be talking allabout the world of intuitive
(01:10):
eating, which is ascience-backed approach to help
rebuild trust with your body, toreject the diet mentality and
to find freedom in how younourish yourself.
It's not about rules.
It's about reconnecting withyour internal cues and learning
to eat with curiosity, notcriticism.
Joining me for this conversationtoday is Christy Docwra, who
(01:30):
holds a master's of sciencedegree and is a certified health
education specialist.
Christy is a wellnessconsultant for the Gulf Coast
and South Texas region with ourBlue Cross and Blue Shield of
Texas team.
She has over 12 years ofexperience developing well-being
programs in both community andworkplace settings.
She brings a compassionate andpractical lens to the
(01:53):
conversation.
She believes that health is ajourney and that building small,
sustainable habits can lead topowerful, long-term change.
So take a deep breath, grab aglass of water or whatever
beverage you like, and or put onyour walking shoes and let's
dive in.
Here's my conversation withChristy.
All Kristi, thank you so muchfor being a guest on the Buena
(02:15):
Vida podcast.
It's so good to see you.
Kristi Docwra (02:18):
Great to be here, Lacy.
Thanks so much for theinvitation.
Lacy Wolff (02:22):
Yeah, I love this topic so much and you and I'm
really excited to get thisinformation out to our listeners
, and I just think it's such ahelpful framework and way to
think about nutrition.
Before we delve into our topictoday of intuitive eating, I
would love for you just to talka little bit about what you do
and if you could just tell ourlisteners how you support our
(02:45):
health plan participants.
Kristi Docwra (02:47):
Absolutely.
I am a wellness consultant thatsupports the Gulf South region
of Texas that incorporates thehigher education institutions as
well as Texas agencies, and wedo a lot of outreach and support
.
So that can range fromdelivering health education
(03:08):
presentations to helping supportstrategy and talking about the
various programs that areavailable through your health
plan, so really just providingthat extension of what all the
amazing things Lacy does for thewhole state of Texas.
Lacy Wolff (03:31):
Well, I'm so happy that you're in this role.
I've known you for many yearsand a lot of people may not know
that you also served in therole as a wellness coordinator
at a higher educationinstitution before you started
with Blue Cross, Blue Shield,and so I just think you have a
really great perspective andunderstanding of the needs of
the people that we serve.
You have so much knowledge toimpart as far as health
education.
So we're talking aboutintuitive eating today, and I
(03:54):
think for a lot of people maybethis is kind of a new term, or
maybe you've heard about it butdon't really know exactly what
it is so I thought we could justsort of define it.
What is intuitive eating?
Kristi Docwra (04:08):
Yeah, I think this is such a great place to
start.
For many people this might be anew concept, but it truly is an
evidence-based approach andit's the brainchild of
registered dietitian EvelynTribole and nutrition therapist
Elise Resch.
And it's truly about connectingback to your body and
(04:31):
rebuilding our interoceptiveawareness.
This is the ability torecognize those internal body
signals, and this includeshunger, thirst.
So eating intuitively involvestruly trusting and honoring your
body's wisdom and developing apeaceful relationship with food.
(04:54):
So our body sends signalsfrequently throughout the day.
That is essentially your bodytelling you, hey, it's time to
take some action.
Your body telling you, hey,it's time to take some action.
I mean, when we get thatsensation that we need to go to
the bathroom, do we wait 30minutes or an hour Maybe,
sometimes, but that's our bodytelling us it's time to take
(05:16):
action.
So take a moment and think aboutsome of the signs that maybe
you have personally experiencedand I want you to ask yourself
the question did you honor them?
I don't know about you, lacey,but I often feel that stomach
rumbling.
My stomach kind of talks to mewhen I'm hungry.
So what really happens overtime is that our interoceptive
(05:41):
awareness is kind of bypassedright by, maybe, the specific
rules or regulations that wehave placed around our eating
habits and this ultimately dullsour awareness or sensitivity to
these bodily sensations.
I know that was a lot to takein, but I think it's so
important to really understandthat we have kind of lost sight
(06:05):
of some of those natural bodycues that we get and we really
need to try to get back tolistening to them and honoring
them throughout the day.
Lacy Wolff (06:13):
It is so interesting when you start thinking about
intuitive awareness andinteroception.
So often when people are I haveair quotes here.
You can't see them if you'relistening.
But dieting you're oftentrained to.
Just don't listen to yourhunger, just go for long periods
(06:35):
of time without food and thatrestriction can be really
unhealthy.
So we hear about intuitiveeating and we hear about mindful
eating, and there's adifference between those two.
Can you share what is mindfuleating and is it the same as
intuitive eating?
Kristi Docwra (06:53):
And that is so true it's often used
interchangeably.
Mindful eating, intuitiveeating While they do have
similar foundational principles,I would say there are some
differences.
So when we think of intuitiveeating, a lot of things that you
will see or hear when intuitiveeating is talked about is kind
(07:14):
of rejecting what you weresaying, lacey, that diet
mentality.
There is diet mentality butthere's also diet culture.
That is, I think, a prettylarge part of our society and
those rules and judgments thatare placed around when and how
we eat.
So truly intuitive eating islistening to our hunger and
(07:37):
fullness cues.
So when you think of thoseaspects, it's more of a
mindset-based program.
Now, when we take mindful eating, it's bringing the full
attention to the experience ofeating right.
Sometimes we lose sight.
We're watching TV, we'redriving in the car, eating our
(07:57):
breakfast really quickly.
So mindful eating is abouttaking in that full experience.
So that might be the sensation,the taste, the texture.
So when we think of all ofthese things, it's building
those skills to slow down andput the brakes, pump the brakes
and really take in that fullexperience of paying attention
(08:20):
and awareness.
So what I would like to sayabout the two is that, again,
they're really founded onbuilding better interoceptive
awareness, which we were justtalking about, but kind of
different focuses.
And one last thing I want tonote about this as well is that
both of these styles can be usedtogether or separately.
(08:42):
It's truly finding maybe oneworks better for you than the
other, or maybe both work welltogether for you.
You know, it's finding whatworks best for you.
Lacy Wolff (08:52):
Yeah, it makes sense to me.
So often, I think people arejust very busy, we get busy and
then we're eating on the runwhile we're doing all these
other things, and so we're notactually paying attention to the
fact that we are eating.
It's just like I got to cramsome food in my mouth and get to
(09:13):
the next thing that I have todo, or I'll be eating while I'm
sitting at my computer working,so I'm not really paying
attention to the fact that I'mfull or I'm hungry in that
moment, or even tasting the foodreally, and so I think it's
really great to be able to sortof define these and to also
recognize that these are skillsthat we can build over time.
(09:34):
Right, this isn't somethingthat you have to master it
overnight.
Kristi Docwra (09:39):
Absolutely, and they are things that you need to
continually practice right.
One day you might find, oh, I'mdoing really well in this area,
and other days you might say,hey, you know, I'm doing the
best I can, yeah.
Lacy Wolff (09:54):
Well, and it's so interesting you and I have
talked about we both havechildren.
They are born intuitive eatersand we often, I think, condition
that out of our kids.
Clean your plate, finish yourfood, because you don't want to
have to feed them again.
So we are teaching them,because kids will naturally eat
when they're hungry and theystop when they're full.
Would you agree?
Kristi Docwra (10:14):
I would totally agree.
I think one of my most favoritethings to talk about, and
really in alignment withintuitive eating, is that
toddlers right.
I'm remembering back when mydaughter was a toddler.
They are naturally intuitiveeaters, like what you're saying.
There might be one day wherethey're moving their bodies a
lot, so maybe they need moresnacks, or maybe they're eating
(10:37):
more than they typically do.
There might be another daywhere maybe they don't move as
much, so they might not eat asmuch.
But we try to set them on avery rigid schedule.
We're going to eat breakfast,we're going to eat lunch, we're
going to have our mid-afternoonsnack, we're going to have
dinner.
But they truly do kind ofrecognize I'm not hungry If they
(11:02):
ate a lot of snacks beforedinner.
I remember my daughter sayingmommy, I'm not hungry for dinner
, but of course me as a parent,I just spent this 30 minutes
making you dinner.
You know, and I expect you tosit down and eat it right With
us as a family.
So we kind of build it aroundwhat we think are social norms
(11:22):
or try to base it on theschedule that we built out for
our kids.
So all of that to say yes,lacey, I 100% agree and it's
truly getting back torecognizing those cues and not
getting distracted by all thethings that we have going on on
a daily basis.
Lacy Wolff (11:42):
Absolutely.
So there are 10 principles ofintuitive eating.
This is supposed to be a 30minute podcast.
Sometimes it goes to 40, 45minutes because I can go long.
I'm saying that because I knowwe don't have time to get to all
10 principles.
I would like to go through justa few of the principles.
We'll see how many we can getthrough.
So the first principle isreject the diet mentality.
(12:06):
So let's talk about that one.
What does that mean?
The diet mentality.
Kristi Docwra (12:12):
Absolutely, and I think this one really forms the
base of intuitive eating.
And you know, I think it canget really confusing because we
use the term diet in a number ofdifferent contexts.
Right?
So when we look truly at thedefinition of diet, it's the
(12:32):
food that's consumed to nourishour body as a whole, right?
So when we look at a truedefinition of diet, it's those
foods you eat day in and day outthat nourish your body.
But we often hear, you know, inmore of a social like context
right, like, I'm going on a diet.
I'm sure I don't think I'malone in this, lacey, have you
heard that before?
(12:53):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I've beenon a diet, I know I feel like we
all have at some point yeah,that's why this topic is so, so
great.
So, when we hear the term I'm,or I, or the phrase I'm, going
on a diet, you know this isoften meant as temporary, right?
People don't typically stay ona diet long term, or maybe it's
(13:17):
to reach a certain goal.
Maybe somebody has a weightloss goal, and it's often more
restrictive in nature.
And what we find, too, is thatwhen somebody goes on a diet,
they might even fully cut outcertain foods or food groups,
right, because they're termedbad or unhealthy.
So, ultimately, when we thinkof diet mentality, it's really
(13:41):
referring to the set of beliefs,the thoughts you might have or
behaviors that you have that arecentered around, you know,
weight loss or food restriction.
So, you know I think I want tobring it around too is that you
know?
So often with social media oreven just conversations with
(14:02):
others, you know, we hear peopletalking about a diet that maybe
has worked well for them, right?
I think it's important toremember whenever you see those
clips or you hear people talkingabout something that's worked
well for them.
What I just wanna say here isthat we are all unique, right.
Our genetic makeup is uniqueand there are so many different
(14:26):
factors that go into your ownindividual nutritional needs.
That's why, when we talk aboutintuitive eating, it's important
to loop back to what is my bodytrying to tell me?
What are those cues that mybody's giving me?
Now I also think it's importantto talk about that overarching
diet culture which is all aroundus and it's more of that
(14:51):
broader context, and dietmentality is kind of fostered
right based on diet culture.
So diet culture is kind of thatfull system of beliefs and it
truly does interact.
It truly does influence how weinteract and we experience our
daily life.
You often find that it equates,maybe, thinness with health or
(15:18):
moral value or you beingsuccessful, and it really
ultimately comes at a cost toour physical and mental health.
So hopefully that kind of helpskind of structure the two.
But I think this is such animportant place to start.
Lacy Wolff (15:32):
Yes, absolutely, and I think we all.
I'm a child of the 80s and grewup you know seeing my mom go on
all kinds of diets and dietbooks and diet VHS tapes and you
know this kind of Jane Fondaera of fitness and all of these
things and it's all I mean.
(15:54):
Remember it would be temporary.
I'm going to do this for 30days, like the 30 day diet or
the grapefruit diet or whatever,but they don't work, right?
I mean, the research shows thatthese diets actually don't work
in the longterm.
Kristi Docwra (16:09):
Yeah, and I think it really ties back to those
psychological and physicalfactors that are related to that
temporary or quick fix type ofmentality, if you will right
that idea of, you know,depriving yourself of certain
foods and it often leads toright that, obsessing over that
(16:39):
forbidden food and it increasesour desirability of that food,
which ultimately kind of spiralsinto overeating and possible
binging.
So you know, I think that's akey component A lot of diets
will completely cut out certainfoods or certain food groups.
You know, and it's really hard,like let's say, you know
(17:01):
there's a diet I love cheese.
Okay, I'll just, I'll just putit out there, I really do like
cheese.
Lacy Wolff (17:06):
I'm with you.
Kristi Docwra (17:07):
Me too, and so like, let's say, there was a
diet that was like you have tocompletely cut out cheese.
That would be extremely hard tomaintain long-term to be
sustainable, cause.
I mean it would be like wouldthat be my last time to eat
pizza?
I enjoy eating pizza.
I don't I don't want to eat itevery night, but I do want to
(17:29):
enjoy that random pizza nightwith my family.
Lacy Wolff (17:33):
you know, yeah, yeah , and it's so interesting.
We think about how much time,energy and money people spend on
diets and we know they don'twork and most people actually
end up gaining back more weightwhen they come off of a diet
than they weighed before theywent on it.
And so I yeah, I think that'sjust.
(17:54):
It's great that that's the kindof the first principle, and if
you do have a diet mentality ifyou're listening to the podcast,
you do have a diet mentality,you are not alone, Most of us do
, and it's kind of hard to.
I mean, that's the first step,I think is just really thinking
about and addressing it.
Number two is to honor ourhunger, and I think that's also
(18:15):
a super important.
You kind of talked a little bitabout that in the beginning of
our conversation.
When you're talking aboutinteroception, what does it mean
to connect to your hunger andwhat does that look like?
Kristi Docwra (18:28):
I think what it means when we talk about
connecting to your hunger is,you know, and oftentimes with
intuitive eating, right, there'sa scale of like one to 10,
right, and intuitive eatingencourages you, right about your
, you know, a level four is agood time to start thinking hey,
you know this might be a goodtime to eat.
(18:49):
You know I'm feeling hungry,I'm not like starving, but you
know I'm mildly hungry and thismight be a good time for a light
snack, or you know somethinglike that.
So, you know, I think it'simportant to kind of look at it
from.
I need to recognize those bodilycues that you know my body's
(19:11):
signaling, giving you waving thewhite flag, like it's time to
eat something, and try not to gotoo far past that right.
So, like, let's say, you're ata level four but you have a
meeting right, you have meetingsback to back, they're several
hours and you know that there'snot really going to be that time
to satisfy that hunger cue thatyou're receiving.
(19:33):
So what I would encourage youto do is have things close by at
your desk, like, if you havelong periods of time in between
and you get hungry, you mightneed to reach for that snack in
your desk drawer, and that'sokay.
That way you don't get to thepoint where you are so hungry
(19:54):
that it might lead to overeating.
I think that's very common forpeople as well.
Lacy Wolff (19:59):
I love that and because you and I have both gone
through the Wonder HealthProgram and the Wonder Hunger
four point scale, which I thinkis really pretty simple, and you
know, just defend your level toeat at a level three and then
level four is where you are,Like Dr AAA calls it, primal
(20:20):
hungry, where you eat whenyou're so hungry that you just
can't stop eating.
And I find that it's notuncommon if you're working all
day without a plan to get tothat primal hunger.
And for me it'll be at the endof the workday when I come home
and I'm cooking dinner, and soI'll be eating because I'm
cooking and then I'm not hungryfor dinner but, like you said,
(20:42):
I'm going to sit down and eat itbecause I cooked it.
So that honoring the hunger isa, it's a practice.
I think all of these are skillsthat we can work on and I like
that, the fact that it's reallynot prescriptive Like you have
to do this all the time butlearning and understanding.
Kristi Docwra (21:01):
Absolutely.
You know, I think, when we goback to, the difference with
dieting is diets are very rigidand oftentimes, like you said,
prescriptive, like don't eatafter 6 pm or make sure you eat
breakfast before 8, you know,prescriptive in nature.
(21:22):
When if we start to listen andtune into our body's signals and
meet those where they are, thenyou're creating a regular habit
of I can eat when I'm hungry,I'm not just going to eat
something, to eat something Idon't really like avocado.
I know I'm probably one of theonly people listening to this
(21:43):
that do not like avocado, butI'm always hearing all this
messaging of avocado is sohealthy and it is.
It has a lot of good attributesto it, a lot of good
nutritional components, but thesimple truth is I don't like of
good attributes to it, a lot ofgood nutritional components, but
the simple truth is I don'tlike avocado.
I don't like the texture, Idon't really like the taste.
So I think it's important torecognize that we don't have to
(22:03):
eat something to just eatsomething.
But it's also about honoringour hunger, but also honoring
those things that we enjoy andthat also provide ourselves with
nutrients to get us through ourday.
Lacy Wolff (22:18):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, that's a good transitionto the next principle coping
with your emotions with kindness.
If we're forcing ourselves toeat something that we don't like
, or we're restricting ourselvesfrom eating something that we
do like, it can create somepretty negative emotion and then
(22:38):
we're kind of forcing it.
So what does it look like tocope with our emotions with
kindness?
Kristi Docwra (22:45):
Yeah, I think you brought up something really
important here.
When we tie our emotions to oureating habits, we're kind of
losing that neutrality so we'rekind of tagging it onto.
Whenever I feel this emotion,it's going to trigger me to eat,
right, because I'm like I'mfeeling this way.
(23:08):
I know I feel maybe a littlebit better after I eat.
Maybe this food I really reallylike it can lead to that spiral
effect.
And I want to say too, I haveeaten because I'm stressed.
I would say that's probably oneof my main things.
Whenever I'm emotionallystressed, I tend to eat.
(23:28):
But I know that about myself, Iknow that's kind of a trigger
moment for me and I think thisis a great segue into the
practice of mindfulness, becausewith intuitive eating,
mindfulness is there, right,it's an important aspect of it.
And so I want you to think ofthe next time you're feeling
(23:50):
stressed or maybe sad, mad,whatever type of emotion that
maybe typically drives you toeat.
To take a moment, I like to usethis stop format.
S would be stop what you'redoing.
It's kind of pressing thatpause button on your current
thoughts and actions.
(24:11):
So that's an important piece,because we got to pause to allow
those internal cues for us tobe able to recognize them.
The second one is to take a fewbreaths to center yourself,
bring yourself into the presentmoment and recognizing I'm here,
I'm feeling this certain way,and then observing truly what is
(24:34):
going on in my body, emotions,my mind, and then proceed with
whatever you were doing, makinga conscious, intentional choice.
And what are some positivecoping mechanisms that have
worked for me in the past?
Maybe it's getting outside.
(24:56):
There's a lot of great benefitsto getting out in nature, going
for a walk.
Maybe, it's listening to aguided meditation, but truly
being kind with yourself,nurturing yourself, finding what
you need in that moment.
Sometimes we get into thathabit of I'm really stressed,
(25:16):
I'm going to I love Oreos tooI'm going to eat the Oreos, and
then I'm going to come backRight, and so then I start to
build that habit loop for myself.
So how do you get yourself outof that?
It's finding other positiveways that you can cope with
those emotions or that currentstate.
Lacy Wolff (25:35):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and we sort of
condition ourselves with emotionin various ways.
That can be healthy orunhealthy, but if every time
you're sad or frustrated yourgo-to is ice cream or a cookie,
then that makes you feel happyor gives you that chemical in
(25:56):
your brain and that just becomesa habit.
And so this way of thinking,this intuitive eating, allows us
to understand those patterns.
Kristi Docwra (26:06):
Yeah, I think it's getting to the root of what
you truly need, right?
Not just masking it by otherthings, because essentially,
sometimes we'll put a bandaid onthings and we'll just continue
to put that bandaid on itwithout truly getting to the
root of what's going on and whatcan support you the best in
(26:30):
that given moment.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant understanding what
your body needs versus justtrying to fix something.
Lacy Wolff (26:39):
Yes, absolutely.
You do such a great job ofleading mindfulness sessions
through our Work Well Texascalendar.
So if our listeners, if youhave not been made aware that we
have actually fitness andmeditation sessions over Zoom
that you can attend anytime, werecord them.
There's also a YouTube channel.
Can you talk about that?
Your mindfulness sessions?
Kristi Docwra (26:59):
Yeah, and I truly do love leading those.
That's probably one of myfavorite parts of the month is
doing the tune in Tuesdays twicea month.
And what we do each month is wefocus on a different style of
meditation.
What I've learned throughpractice is that sometimes
certain meditation styles workbetter for certain people and
(27:22):
sometimes other meditationstyles might fit what you need
in that moment a little bitbetter.
So you know, each month wefocus on a different meditation
style.
So we've done mindful breathing.
Just last month we focused on aprogressive muscle relaxation,
which is a really great way tokind of work through those
(27:45):
different body parts andintentionally relaxing each of
those areas, Because I think wedon't realize how much tension
we tend to hold in our body forvarious different reasons.
And I do want to mention thismonth specifically because we
are working on a self-compassionmeditation where we're working
(28:07):
through the three basic levels.
So we're working through thatmindfulness aspect, getting to
that space of common humanity oflike hey, I'm not the only one
out there that's experiencingthese types of challenges or
things that I'm going through.
I'm not alone in this, and thenwrapping that in compassion and
(28:33):
kindness for yourself is soimportant.
We often extend things so mucheasier to others before offering
it back to ourselves.
Lacy Wolff (28:43):
Yes, absolutely, and that's such a great segue
another great segue toself-compassion as we move into
talking about the next principle, which is respecting your body,
and I think that can be sochallenging in the culture that
we live in, where it feels likeso much of our worth is based on
(29:04):
what we look like.
In our current society and Ithink it's not just women for
everybody it is so hard becausewe're getting bombarded with
these messages all around us.
That is the.
That is the most importantthing.
So respecting your body is thenext principle.
It's really challenging.
What are your thoughts on thatand how do we do it, even when
(29:26):
there's parts of your body thatyou may not like at certain
times?
Kristi Docwra (29:30):
It is challenging , lacey, and I will say this has
been something I've dealt withthroughout my life.
I know you've seen me in person, lacey, but I'm almost six foot
right, so I'm pretty tall and Iwant to share just a quick
story with you.
So my sister and I, we both rancross country in high school
(29:51):
and I can remember this parenttelling my mom that we didn't
look like a distance runnerwhich what does a distance
runner look like?
Right, I guess, according tothis individual, our body shape
was too big and it wasn't thattypical lean runner physique, I
(30:12):
guess.
Lean runner physique, I guess.
And so I want to bring this upbecause, you know, I think
sometimes what happens is that,with all the messaging that we
see from various various things,right, the media, social media,
different influencers andthings like that, it almost ties
(30:32):
, like your body shape to yourworth, right?
And if you don't fit into thisspecific box, you know you're
not healthy or you shouldn't bea runner or things like that.
So I share this because I thinkwe've all had an experience
where maybe we don't think ourbody is what it should look like
(30:58):
and we get really down and hardon ourselves, but we're, all
you know, made to be the way weare.
We have genetics that play intothis a lot and truly no one
size fits all.
No one size fits all, and Ijust want to say that it's truly
(31:19):
important to kind of lean intoappreciating your body for what
it can do and where you are inthis moment, and not body
shaming yourself or feeling thatyou don't fit into the typical
mold of what people thinkhealthy should look like or feel
like.
Lacy Wolff (31:37):
Right, and I think, just the aging process.
I'm in my mid forties I don'tlook like I did 10 or 15 years
ago, and so you start tosometimes kind of fixate on the
things that we don't like aboutour body.
And I like how you said that.
Think about the things thatyour body can do for you,
because we're more than a body,we are all of these other things
(31:59):
.
Right, I'm a mom, I'm anemployee, I'm a daughter, I, you
know, I have all these otherthings that, if I focus in on
what my body can do and what theamazing aspects of it, that's a
.
That's a good shift in themindset, because I've talked to
people about this over the years.
And if you're listening to this,think about how many times a
(32:20):
day do you potentially say anegative thing about your body
to yourself, and is it multipletimes a day?
And then what is that doing forus?
Is that helping or hurting ourhealth, right?
So such an important principleand something we can all
certainly work on.
The next principle that I wouldlike to talk about here is and
(32:42):
this will be the last one we'lltalk about for the podcast, just
because of time is challengingthe food police.
Can you talk about the foodpolice, the good versus bad
foods, and how does that hurt us?
Kristi Docwra (32:55):
the food police, the good versus bad foods, and
how does that hurt us?
You know I was thinking aboutthis one a lot and I can
remember.
I've been in the health andwellness industry for 14 plus
years now and every role thatI've been in I remember walking
through the office and it wasalmost as if people thought I
was the food police.
They would hide whatever theywere eating and they're you know
(33:17):
.
Have you ever experienced that.
Lacy Wolff (33:20):
Oh my gosh, absolutely Just because of my
title and my role, if I go tolunch with people or I go, I
better have a salad, Exactly.
Kristi Docwra (33:30):
Yeah, I mean judgment-free zone.
That's truly what intuitiveeating is all about as well.
And when we think aboutchallenging the food police, it
ties in our thoughts, ourfeelings and behaviors, which
are often shaped, when we thinkabout it, by our environment, by
the people we surroundourselves with, by social media.
(33:51):
And I want you to think aboutthis too.
We were not born labeling foodsas healthy or not healthy or
good or bad.
That was not part of ourvocabulary, right, it's
something that we built overtime, or a thinking that we
built over time, and theseperceptions that we have, or the
(34:15):
lenses we see things through.
So when we talk about the foodpolice, that's truly your inner
critic.
It's that little voice that issaying, hey, why are you eating
that?
Or that's not healthy, thingslike that.
So it brings that shame andguilt aspect to the eating
(34:36):
equation and it gets you awayfrom honoring your body signals.
So it pushes you further fromthat, because you have those
voices telling you.
So let's, let's talk through alittle scenario real quick of
that internal tug of war thatour minds go through.
Let's say you know, you decide.
(34:56):
Okay, I'm going to swap yogurtfor dessert.
Right, I'm going to be good, Iwant to swap yogurt for dessert
and that internal dialogue, thatinternal voice, is way to go.
That was a healthy swap, butwhat you find is that that
didn't really satisfy you andyou're still hungry.
(35:17):
So next thing you find yourselfdoing is reaching for that
chocolate protein shake.
Internal voice again don'tdrink that, you don't need it.
You've already eaten something,but you still don't have that
satisfaction.
So you finally grab, you walkinto the kitchen and you grab
(35:39):
that handful of trail mix andthat internal voice continuing
down that road of you're nothungry, don't eat that.
So ultimately, going throughthat scenario, would it have
been better to just take thosefew bites of dessert versus
eating those three differentthings?
(36:01):
I mean, lacey, what do youthink?
Lacy Wolff (36:03):
Absolutely, because you're just searching for the
satisfaction.
In the Wonder Health program,one of the things that I took
from that kind of early on wasand this is part of that
interception at mindfulness islike ask yourself do you want
something savory, are youlooking for something sweet?
What texture are you lookingfor?
And for me, a lot of times forbreakfast I realized I was
(36:27):
forcing myself to actually eatyogurt and fruit because it was
good food.
But then I'm like actually Ilearned through going through
that program I want eggs, I wantsavory, I want eggs and
tomatoes.
It's going to make me moresatisfied and I'm going to be
less likely to overeat or tocome back and try to, like you
(36:49):
said, eat another thing becauseI'm actually getting what I need
.
So, yeah, that's such a greatscenario and I think everybody
can probably relate to thatfeeling of searching for what
you're missing.
Kristi Docwra (37:03):
Yeah, even going back to what we talked about
earlier, that stop framework,being able to pause and
recognizing what do you trulywant, right Versus trying to
satisfy that specific thing byhaving multiple things, and I
think a lot of times bread carbs, we label them as bad foods and
(37:28):
I'm not saying that eatingwhite bread is going to be the
best thing for our blood sugar.
Lacy Wolff (37:35):
But at the same time , if you look at French people,
who have the lowest rates ofheart disease, they eat white
bread, french bread, you knowit's, it's just interesting, but
they don't stress out about it,they just eat, and so there's
there's not restriction aroundthe diet, and so it is all so
(37:55):
fascinating.
I was also thinking about DanHarris.
In a podcast I listened to onthis topic, he said that his
wife had ordered him avocadotoast and he couldn't even enjoy
it because he was tellinghimself like you can't eat bread
, bread is bad, but he ate it.
You shouldn't be eating it.
But then how much more damageare we causing in the fact that
(38:17):
we're so stressed out becausewe're eating the bread?
So I don't know, it can becomplicated, but I think it's
really worth having thoseconversations with ourselves
internally asking ourselves whydo I think this is good or this
is bad?
Kristi Docwra (38:32):
Absolutely.
I know we've talked about tyingthat moral code to food, yeah,
and why do we feel the need todo that?
And how does that kind ofspiral and again impact?
You know our psyche and how werelate to food.
I was thinking the other dayyou know a lot of times when we
(38:52):
restrict foods or you know we'retrying to eat a certain way day
.
You know a lot of times when werestrict foods or you know
we're trying to eat a certainway, which you know there are
exceptions to the rule, like ifyou're gluten-free, you have to
eat a certain way, if you maybe.
I was telling you, lacey, thatmy mom's gout flare up a few
years ago.
She had to eatanti-inflammatory foods, and so
(39:15):
what I want to say, too, is thatwhen is it stopping you from
living your life right?
When is, like, if you're goingout to dinner with your family
maybe it's something y'all doevery Friday and you're looking
at the menu several hours aheadof time, trying to pick what
you're going to eat becauseyou're so afraid of eating
(39:36):
certain foods, and when you getto the restaurant, you're not
fully able to engage in theexperience because you're so
concerned about the food thatyou're eating and not having
dessert.
So when things start to impactthe way you're living your life
and the way you're interactingand experiencing life, that's
(39:58):
where intuitive eating can bevery supportive and challenging
some of those thoughts andbringing the joy back to your
food experiences and not makingit just about the food but about
the full experience it justabout the food, but about the
(40:19):
full experience.
Lacy Wolff (40:20):
I love that.
Well, Christy, I said this wasa 30 minute podcast and I get so
excited about this topic wehave gone over, so I'm going to.
I have more questions.
I could talk about this all day, but I'm going to go ahead and
wrap it up with the questionthat I like to ask every guest.
We talk a lot about Buena Vidathat's the name of our wellbeing
program, which means good life.
What is a good life for you?
Kristi Docwra (40:42):
I love this question, Lacey.
I think a good life for me isbeing able to enjoy moments with
my family.
I have a eight-year-olddaughter and I have dogs and a
fish as well, so being able tofully be present in those
moments.
I think sometimes I get sowrapped up in things that I'm
(41:06):
doing that I lose sight of that.
So I think the good life isreally being able to engage in
those moments that matter mostand those things that matter
most each and every day.
Lacy Wolff (41:18):
Well, it seems very appropriate that you are
teaching mindfulness to all ofus, since that is something that
you care about so much andstaying present.
So thank you for all you do tosupport our health plan
participants.
You and Valerie and Liz are alljust incredible resources.
We're so lucky to have you, andif you're listening to this
(41:41):
podcast and you have not beenacquainted with our Blue Cross,
blue Shield wellness team, theyare out at events, they are
featured on our webinars, theyhave all kinds of ways to stay
connected and I'll have all ofthat in our show notes.
If you want to join a webinaror a fitness or nutrition
community, call or learn moreabout your benefits.
So, thank you, christy.
You are amazing, really, reallyappreciate your time.
(42:03):
Thank you, lacey.
All right, everybody.
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode.
This is a topic that ispersonally very important to me,
something that I'm working onmyself.
I think we've really onlyscratched the surface in this
conversation as to whatintuitive eating is and how it
can transform your relationshipwith food and with yourself, and
(42:25):
I know you probably have a lotmore questions on the topic.
If this sparked something inyou, I really encourage you to
keep exploring in our show notessomething in you, and I really
encourage you to keep exploring.
In our show notes, you'll findsome helpful resources that can
guide you in your next steps,including a fillable handout to
help you reflect on your owneating patterns, a link to
Christie's guided meditationsessions, which pair beautifully
(42:48):
with this approach, andrecommendations for both the
intuitive eating book andworkbook.
If you want to dig deeper, asalways, I'd love to hear what
resonated with you, yourtakeaways, your questions, your
aha moments.
You can find me at the emailprovided in the show notes.
Thanks again for joining ustoday, and here's to nourishing
(43:10):
yourself with more curiosity,kindness and trust.
Thanks so much, and have aBuena Vida day.
When things start to impact the way you're living
your life and the way you'reinteracting and experiencing
life.
That's where intuitive eatingcan be very supportive and
challenging some of thosethoughts and bringing the joy
back to your food experiencesand not making it just about the
food but about the fullexperience.
Lacy Wolff (00:23):
Have you ever found yourself constantly judging your
body?
Or maybe you've been caught inone of those tug of wars between
the so-called good and badfoods, unsure of what to eat,
when to eat or even why you'reeating in the first place?
If any of that hits close tohome, today's episode of the
Buena Vida podcast might just bethe game changer you're looking
for.
Before we dive in, a quickdisclaimer this conversation is
(00:46):
for educational andinformational purposes only and
is not intended for medicaladvice.
Always talk to a qualifiedhealthcare provider about your
individual healthcare needs.
My name is Lacey Wolff.
I'm the coordinator forstatewide wellbeing initiatives
and the host of the Buena Vidapodcast.
I'm so happy you're joining ustoday.
We are going to be talking allabout the world of intuitive
(01:10):
eating, which is ascience-backed approach to help
rebuild trust with your body, toreject the diet mentality and
to find freedom in how younourish yourself.
It's not about rules.
It's about reconnecting withyour internal cues and learning
to eat with curiosity, notcriticism.
Joining me for this conversationtoday is Christy Docwra, who
(01:30):
holds a master's of sciencedegree and is a certified health
education specialist.
Christy is a wellnessconsultant for the Gulf Coast
and South Texas region with ourBlue Cross and Blue Shield of
Texas team.
She has over 12 years ofexperience developing well-being
programs in both community andworkplace settings.
She brings a compassionate andpractical lens to the
(01:53):
conversation.
She believes that health is ajourney and that building small,
sustainable habits can lead topowerful, long-term change.
So take a deep breath, grab aglass of water or whatever
beverage you like, and or put onyour walking shoes and let's
dive in.
Here's my conversation withChristy.
All Kristi, thank you so muchfor being a guest on the Buena
(02:15):
Vida podcast.
It's so good to see you.
Kristi Docwra (02:18):
Great to be here, Lacy.
Thanks so much for theinvitation.
Lacy Wolff (02:22):
Yeah, I love this topic so much and you and I'm
really excited to get thisinformation out to our listeners
, and I just think it's such ahelpful framework and way to
think about nutrition.
Before we delve into our topictoday of intuitive eating, I
would love for you just to talka little bit about what you do
and if you could just tell ourlisteners how you support our
(02:45):
health plan participants.
Kristi Docwra (02:47):
Absolutely.
I am a wellness consultant thatsupports the Gulf South region
of Texas that incorporates thehigher education institutions as
well as Texas agencies, and wedo a lot of outreach and support
.
So that can range fromdelivering health education
(03:08):
presentations to helping supportstrategy and talking about the
various programs that areavailable through your health
plan, so really just providingthat extension of what all the
amazing things Lacy does for thewhole state of Texas.
Lacy Wolff (03:31):
Well, I'm so happy that you're in this role.
I've known you for many yearsand a lot of people may not know
that you also served in therole as a wellness coordinator
at a higher educationinstitution before you started
with Blue Cross, Blue Shield,and so I just think you have a
really great perspective andunderstanding of the needs of
the people that we serve.
You have so much knowledge toimpart as far as health
education.
So we're talking aboutintuitive eating today, and I
(03:54):
think for a lot of people maybethis is kind of a new term, or
maybe you've heard about it butdon't really know exactly what
it is so I thought we could justsort of define it.
What is intuitive eating?
Kristi Docwra (04:08):
Yeah, I think this is such a great place to
start.
For many people this might be anew concept, but it truly is an
evidence-based approach andit's the brainchild of
registered dietitian EvelynTribole and nutrition therapist
Elise Resch.
And it's truly about connectingback to your body and
(04:31):
rebuilding our interoceptiveawareness.
This is the ability torecognize those internal body
signals, and this includeshunger, thirst.
So eating intuitively involvestruly trusting and honoring your
body's wisdom and developing apeaceful relationship with food.
(04:54):
So our body sends signalsfrequently throughout the day.
That is essentially your bodytelling you, hey, it's time to
take some action.
Your body telling you, hey,it's time to take some action.
I mean, when we get thatsensation that we need to go to
the bathroom, do we wait 30minutes or an hour Maybe,
sometimes, but that's our bodytelling us it's time to take
(05:16):
action.
So take a moment and think aboutsome of the signs that maybe
you have personally experiencedand I want you to ask yourself
the question did you honor them?
I don't know about you, lacey,but I often feel that stomach
rumbling.
My stomach kind of talks to mewhen I'm hungry.
So what really happens overtime is that our interoceptive
(05:41):
awareness is kind of bypassedright by, maybe, the specific
rules or regulations that wehave placed around our eating
habits and this ultimately dullsour awareness or sensitivity to
these bodily sensations.
I know that was a lot to takein, but I think it's so
important to really understandthat we have kind of lost sight
(06:05):
of some of those natural bodycues that we get and we really
need to try to get back tolistening to them and honoring
them throughout the day.
Lacy Wolff (06:13):
It is so interesting when you start thinking about
intuitive awareness andinteroception.
So often when people are I haveair quotes here.
You can't see them if you'relistening.
But dieting you're oftentrained to.
Just don't listen to yourhunger, just go for long periods
(06:35):
of time without food and thatrestriction can be really
unhealthy.
So we hear about intuitiveeating and we hear about mindful
eating, and there's adifference between those two.
Can you share what is mindfuleating and is it the same as
intuitive eating?
Kristi Docwra (06:53):
And that is so true it's often used
interchangeably.
Mindful eating, intuitiveeating While they do have
similar foundational principles,I would say there are some
differences.
So when we think of intuitiveeating, a lot of things that you
will see or hear when intuitiveeating is talked about is kind
(07:14):
of rejecting what you weresaying, lacey, that diet
mentality.
There is diet mentality butthere's also diet culture.
That is, I think, a prettylarge part of our society and
those rules and judgments thatare placed around when and how
we eat.
So truly intuitive eating islistening to our hunger and
(07:37):
fullness cues.
So when you think of thoseaspects, it's more of a
mindset-based program.
Now, when we take mindful eating, it's bringing the full
attention to the experience ofeating right.
Sometimes we lose sight.
We're watching TV, we'redriving in the car, eating our
(07:57):
breakfast really quickly.
So mindful eating is abouttaking in that full experience.
So that might be the sensation,the taste, the texture.
So when we think of all ofthese things, it's building
those skills to slow down andput the brakes, pump the brakes
and really take in that fullexperience of paying attention
(08:20):
and awareness.
So what I would like to sayabout the two is that, again,
they're really founded onbuilding better interoceptive
awareness, which we were justtalking about, but kind of
different focuses.
And one last thing I want tonote about this as well is that
both of these styles can be usedtogether or separately.
(08:42):
It's truly finding maybe oneworks better for you than the
other, or maybe both work welltogether for you.
You know, it's finding whatworks best for you.
Lacy Wolff (08:52):
Yeah, it makes sense to me.
So often, I think people arejust very busy, we get busy and
then we're eating on the runwhile we're doing all these
other things, and so we're notactually paying attention to the
fact that we are eating.
It's just like I got to cramsome food in my mouth and get to
(09:13):
the next thing that I have todo, or I'll be eating while I'm
sitting at my computer working,so I'm not really paying
attention to the fact that I'mfull or I'm hungry in that
moment, or even tasting the foodreally, and so I think it's
really great to be able to sortof define these and to also
recognize that these are skillsthat we can build over time.
(09:34):
Right, this isn't somethingthat you have to master it
overnight.
Kristi Docwra (09:39):
Absolutely, and they are things that you need to
continually practice right.
One day you might find, oh, I'mdoing really well in this area,
and other days you might say,hey, you know, I'm doing the
best I can, yeah.
Lacy Wolff (09:54):
Well, and it's so interesting you and I have
talked about we both havechildren.
They are born intuitive eatersand we often, I think, condition
that out of our kids.
Clean your plate, finish yourfood, because you don't want to
have to feed them again.
So we are teaching them,because kids will naturally eat
when they're hungry and theystop when they're full.
Would you agree?
Kristi Docwra (10:14):
I would totally agree.
I think one of my most favoritethings to talk about, and
really in alignment withintuitive eating, is that
toddlers right.
I'm remembering back when mydaughter was a toddler.
They are naturally intuitiveeaters, like what you're saying.
There might be one day wherethey're moving their bodies a
lot, so maybe they need moresnacks, or maybe they're eating
(10:37):
more than they typically do.
There might be another daywhere maybe they don't move as
much, so they might not eat asmuch.
But we try to set them on avery rigid schedule.
We're going to eat breakfast,we're going to eat lunch, we're
going to have our mid-afternoonsnack, we're going to have
dinner.
But they truly do kind ofrecognize I'm not hungry If they
(11:02):
ate a lot of snacks beforedinner.
I remember my daughter sayingmommy, I'm not hungry for dinner
, but of course me as a parent,I just spent this 30 minutes
making you dinner.
You know, and I expect you tosit down and eat it right With
us as a family.
So we kind of build it aroundwhat we think are social norms
(11:22):
or try to base it on theschedule that we built out for
our kids.
So all of that to say yes,lacey, I 100% agree and it's
truly getting back torecognizing those cues and not
getting distracted by all thethings that we have going on on
a daily basis.
Lacy Wolff (11:42):
Absolutely.
So there are 10 principles ofintuitive eating.
This is supposed to be a 30minute podcast.
Sometimes it goes to 40, 45minutes because I can go long.
I'm saying that because I knowwe don't have time to get to all
10 principles.
I would like to go through justa few of the principles.
We'll see how many we can getthrough.
So the first principle isreject the diet mentality.
(12:06):
So let's talk about that one.
What does that mean?
The diet mentality.
Kristi Docwra (12:12):
Absolutely, and I think this one really forms the
base of intuitive eating.
And you know, I think it canget really confusing because we
use the term diet in a number ofdifferent contexts.
Right?
So when we look truly at thedefinition of diet, it's the
(12:32):
food that's consumed to nourishour body as a whole, right?
So when we look at a truedefinition of diet, it's those
foods you eat day in and day outthat nourish your body.
But we often hear, you know, inmore of a social like context
right, like, I'm going on a diet.
I'm sure I don't think I'malone in this, lacey, have you
heard that before?
(12:53):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I've beenon a diet, I know I feel like we
all have at some point yeah,that's why this topic is so, so
great.
So, when we hear the term I'm,or I, or the phrase I'm, going
on a diet, you know this isoften meant as temporary, right?
People don't typically stay ona diet long term, or maybe it's
(13:17):
to reach a certain goal.
Maybe somebody has a weightloss goal, and it's often more
restrictive in nature.
And what we find, too, is thatwhen somebody goes on a diet,
they might even fully cut outcertain foods or food groups,
right, because they're termedbad or unhealthy.
So, ultimately, when we thinkof diet mentality, it's really
(13:41):
referring to the set of beliefs,the thoughts you might have or
behaviors that you have that arecentered around, you know,
weight loss or food restriction.
So, you know I think I want tobring it around too is that you
know?
So often with social media oreven just conversations with
(14:02):
others, you know, we hear peopletalking about a diet that maybe
has worked well for them, right?
I think it's important toremember whenever you see those
clips or you hear people talkingabout something that's worked
well for them.
What I just wanna say here isthat we are all unique, right.
Our genetic makeup is uniqueand there are so many different
(14:26):
factors that go into your ownindividual nutritional needs.
That's why, when we talk aboutintuitive eating, it's important
to loop back to what is my bodytrying to tell me?
What are those cues that mybody's giving me?
Now I also think it's importantto talk about that overarching
diet culture which is all aroundus and it's more of that
(14:51):
broader context, and dietmentality is kind of fostered
right based on diet culture.
So diet culture is kind of thatfull system of beliefs and it
truly does interact.
It truly does influence how weinteract and we experience our
daily life.
You often find that it equates,maybe, thinness with health or
(15:18):
moral value or you beingsuccessful, and it really
ultimately comes at a cost toour physical and mental health.
So hopefully that kind of helpskind of structure the two.
But I think this is such animportant place to start.
Lacy Wolff (15:32):
Yes, absolutely, and I think we all.
I'm a child of the 80s and grewup you know seeing my mom go on
all kinds of diets and dietbooks and diet VHS tapes and you
know this kind of Jane Fondaera of fitness and all of these
things and it's all I mean.
(15:54):
Remember it would be temporary.
I'm going to do this for 30days, like the 30 day diet or
the grapefruit diet or whatever,but they don't work, right?
I mean, the research shows thatthese diets actually don't work
in the longterm.
Kristi Docwra (16:09):
Yeah, and I think it really ties back to those
psychological and physicalfactors that are related to that
temporary or quick fix type ofmentality, if you will right
that idea of, you know,depriving yourself of certain
foods and it often leads toright that, obsessing over that
(16:39):
forbidden food and it increasesour desirability of that food,
which ultimately kind of spiralsinto overeating and possible
binging.
So you know, I think that's akey component A lot of diets
will completely cut out certainfoods or certain food groups.
You know, and it's really hard,like let's say, you know
(17:01):
there's a diet I love cheese.
Okay, I'll just, I'll just putit out there, I really do like
cheese.
Lacy Wolff (17:06):
I'm with you.
Kristi Docwra (17:07):
Me too, and so like, let's say, there was a
diet that was like you have tocompletely cut out cheese.
That would be extremely hard tomaintain long-term to be
sustainable, cause.
I mean it would be like wouldthat be my last time to eat
pizza?
I enjoy eating pizza.
I don't I don't want to eat itevery night, but I do want to
(17:29):
enjoy that random pizza nightwith my family.
Lacy Wolff (17:33):
you know, yeah, yeah , and it's so interesting.
We think about how much time,energy and money people spend on
diets and we know they don'twork and most people actually
end up gaining back more weightwhen they come off of a diet
than they weighed before theywent on it.
And so I yeah, I think that'sjust.
(17:54):
It's great that that's the kindof the first principle, and if
you do have a diet mentality ifyou're listening to the podcast,
you do have a diet mentality,you are not alone, Most of us do
, and it's kind of hard to.
I mean, that's the first step,I think is just really thinking
about and addressing it.
Number two is to honor ourhunger, and I think that's also
(18:15):
a super important.
You kind of talked a little bitabout that in the beginning of
our conversation.
When you're talking aboutinteroception, what does it mean
to connect to your hunger andwhat does that look like?
Kristi Docwra (18:28):
I think what it means when we talk about
connecting to your hunger is,you know, and oftentimes with
intuitive eating, right, there'sa scale of like one to 10,
right, and intuitive eatingencourages you, right about your
, you know, a level four is agood time to start thinking hey,
you know this might be a goodtime to eat.
(18:49):
You know I'm feeling hungry,I'm not like starving, but you
know I'm mildly hungry and thismight be a good time for a light
snack, or you know somethinglike that.
So, you know, I think it'simportant to kind of look at it
from.
I need to recognize those bodilycues that you know my body's
(19:11):
signaling, giving you waving thewhite flag, like it's time to
eat something, and try not to gotoo far past that right.
So, like, let's say, you're ata level four but you have a
meeting right, you have meetingsback to back, they're several
hours and you know that there'snot really going to be that time
to satisfy that hunger cue thatyou're receiving.
(19:33):
So what I would encourage youto do is have things close by at
your desk, like, if you havelong periods of time in between
and you get hungry, you mightneed to reach for that snack in
your desk drawer, and that'sokay.
That way you don't get to thepoint where you are so hungry
(19:54):
that it might lead to overeating.
I think that's very common forpeople as well.
Lacy Wolff (19:59):
I love that and because you and I have both gone
through the Wonder HealthProgram and the Wonder Hunger
four point scale, which I thinkis really pretty simple, and you
know, just defend your level toeat at a level three and then
level four is where you are,Like Dr AAA calls it, primal
(20:20):
hungry, where you eat whenyou're so hungry that you just
can't stop eating.
And I find that it's notuncommon if you're working all
day without a plan to get tothat primal hunger.
And for me it'll be at the endof the workday when I come home
and I'm cooking dinner, and soI'll be eating because I'm
cooking and then I'm not hungryfor dinner but, like you said,
(20:42):
I'm going to sit down and eat itbecause I cooked it.
So that honoring the hunger isa, it's a practice.
I think all of these are skillsthat we can work on and I like
that, the fact that it's reallynot prescriptive Like you have
to do this all the time butlearning and understanding.
Kristi Docwra (21:01):
Absolutely.
You know, I think, when we goback to, the difference with
dieting is diets are very rigidand oftentimes, like you said,
prescriptive, like don't eatafter 6 pm or make sure you eat
breakfast before 8, you know,prescriptive in nature.
(21:22):
When if we start to listen andtune into our body's signals and
meet those where they are, thenyou're creating a regular habit
of I can eat when I'm hungry,I'm not just going to eat
something, to eat something Idon't really like avocado.
I know I'm probably one of theonly people listening to this
(21:43):
that do not like avocado, butI'm always hearing all this
messaging of avocado is sohealthy and it is.
It has a lot of good attributesto it, a lot of good
nutritional components, but thesimple truth is I don't like of
good attributes to it, a lot ofgood nutritional components, but
the simple truth is I don'tlike avocado.
I don't like the texture, Idon't really like the taste.
So I think it's important torecognize that we don't have to
(22:03):
eat something to just eatsomething.
But it's also about honoringour hunger, but also honoring
those things that we enjoy andthat also provide ourselves with
nutrients to get us through ourday.
Lacy Wolff (22:18):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, that's a good transitionto the next principle coping
with your emotions with kindness.
If we're forcing ourselves toeat something that we don't like
, or we're restricting ourselvesfrom eating something that we
do like, it can create somepretty negative emotion and then
(22:38):
we're kind of forcing it.
So what does it look like tocope with our emotions with
kindness?
Kristi Docwra (22:45):
Yeah, I think you brought up something really
important here.
When we tie our emotions to oureating habits, we're kind of
losing that neutrality so we'rekind of tagging it onto.
Whenever I feel this emotion,it's going to trigger me to eat,
right, because I'm like I'mfeeling this way.
(23:08):
I know I feel maybe a littlebit better after I eat.
Maybe this food I really reallylike it can lead to that spiral
effect.
And I want to say too, I haveeaten because I'm stressed.
I would say that's probably oneof my main things.
Whenever I'm emotionallystressed, I tend to eat.
(23:28):
But I know that about myself, Iknow that's kind of a trigger
moment for me and I think thisis a great segue into the
practice of mindfulness, becausewith intuitive eating,
mindfulness is there, right,it's an important aspect of it.
And so I want you to think ofthe next time you're feeling
(23:50):
stressed or maybe sad, mad,whatever type of emotion that
maybe typically drives you toeat.
To take a moment, I like to usethis stop format.
S would be stop what you'redoing.
It's kind of pressing thatpause button on your current
thoughts and actions.
(24:11):
So that's an important piece,because we got to pause to allow
those internal cues for us tobe able to recognize them.
The second one is to take a fewbreaths to center yourself,
bring yourself into the presentmoment and recognizing I'm here,
I'm feeling this certain way,and then observing truly what is
(24:34):
going on in my body, emotions,my mind, and then proceed with
whatever you were doing, makinga conscious, intentional choice.
And what are some positivecoping mechanisms that have
worked for me in the past?
Maybe it's getting outside.
(24:56):
There's a lot of great benefitsto getting out in nature, going
for a walk.
Maybe, it's listening to aguided meditation, but truly
being kind with yourself,nurturing yourself, finding what
you need in that moment.
Sometimes we get into thathabit of I'm really stressed,
(25:16):
I'm going to I love Oreos tooI'm going to eat the Oreos, and
then I'm going to come backRight, and so then I start to
build that habit loop for myself.
So how do you get yourself outof that?
It's finding other positiveways that you can cope with
those emotions or that currentstate.
Lacy Wolff (25:35):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and we sort of
condition ourselves with emotionin various ways.
That can be healthy orunhealthy, but if every time
you're sad or frustrated yourgo-to is ice cream or a cookie,
then that makes you feel happyor gives you that chemical in
(25:56):
your brain and that just becomesa habit.
And so this way of thinking,this intuitive eating, allows us
to understand those patterns.
Kristi Docwra (26:06):
Yeah, I think it's getting to the root of what
you truly need, right?
Not just masking it by otherthings, because essentially,
sometimes we'll put a bandaid onthings and we'll just continue
to put that bandaid on itwithout truly getting to the
root of what's going on and whatcan support you the best in
(26:30):
that given moment.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant understanding what
your body needs versus justtrying to fix something.
Lacy Wolff (26:39):
Yes, absolutely.
You do such a great job ofleading mindfulness sessions
through our Work Well Texascalendar.
So if our listeners, if youhave not been made aware that we
have actually fitness andmeditation sessions over Zoom
that you can attend anytime, werecord them.
There's also a YouTube channel.
Can you talk about that?
Your mindfulness sessions?
Kristi Docwra (26:59):
Yeah, and I truly do love leading those.
That's probably one of myfavorite parts of the month is
doing the tune in Tuesdays twicea month.
And what we do each month is wefocus on a different style of
meditation.
What I've learned throughpractice is that sometimes
certain meditation styles workbetter for certain people and
(27:22):
sometimes other meditationstyles might fit what you need
in that moment a little bitbetter.
So you know, each month wefocus on a different meditation
style.
So we've done mindful breathing.
Just last month we focused on aprogressive muscle relaxation,
which is a really great way tokind of work through those
(27:45):
different body parts andintentionally relaxing each of
those areas, Because I think wedon't realize how much tension
we tend to hold in our body forvarious different reasons.
And I do want to mention thismonth specifically because we
are working on a self-compassionmeditation where we're working
(28:07):
through the three basic levels.
So we're working through thatmindfulness aspect, getting to
that space of common humanity oflike hey, I'm not the only one
out there that's experiencingthese types of challenges or
things that I'm going through.
I'm not alone in this, and thenwrapping that in compassion and
(28:33):
kindness for yourself is soimportant.
We often extend things so mucheasier to others before offering
it back to ourselves.
Lacy Wolff (28:43):
Yes, absolutely, and that's such a great segue
another great segue toself-compassion as we move into
talking about the next principle, which is respecting your body,
and I think that can be sochallenging in the culture that
we live in, where it feels likeso much of our worth is based on
(29:04):
what we look like.
In our current society and Ithink it's not just women for
everybody it is so hard becausewe're getting bombarded with
these messages all around us.
That is the.
That is the most importantthing.
So respecting your body is thenext principle.
It's really challenging.
What are your thoughts on thatand how do we do it, even when
(29:26):
there's parts of your body thatyou may not like at certain
times?
Kristi Docwra (29:30):
It is challenging , lacey, and I will say this has
been something I've dealt withthroughout my life.
I know you've seen me in person, lacey, but I'm almost six foot
right, so I'm pretty tall and Iwant to share just a quick
story with you.
So my sister and I, we both rancross country in high school
(29:51):
and I can remember this parenttelling my mom that we didn't
look like a distance runnerwhich what does a distance
runner look like?
Right, I guess, according tothis individual, our body shape
was too big and it wasn't thattypical lean runner physique, I
(30:12):
guess.
Lean runner physique, I guess.
And so I want to bring this upbecause, you know, I think
sometimes what happens is that,with all the messaging that we
see from various various things,right, the media, social media,
different influencers andthings like that, it almost ties
(30:32):
, like your body shape to yourworth, right?
And if you don't fit into thisspecific box, you know you're
not healthy or you shouldn't bea runner or things like that.
So I share this because I thinkwe've all had an experience
where maybe we don't think ourbody is what it should look like
(30:58):
and we get really down and hardon ourselves, but we're, all
you know, made to be the way weare.
We have genetics that play intothis a lot and truly no one
size fits all.
No one size fits all, and Ijust want to say that it's truly
(31:19):
important to kind of lean intoappreciating your body for what
it can do and where you are inthis moment, and not body
shaming yourself or feeling thatyou don't fit into the typical
mold of what people thinkhealthy should look like or feel
like.
Lacy Wolff (31:37):
Right, and I think, just the aging process.
I'm in my mid forties I don'tlook like I did 10 or 15 years
ago, and so you start tosometimes kind of fixate on the
things that we don't like aboutour body.
And I like how you said that.
Think about the things thatyour body can do for you,
because we're more than a body,we are all of these other things
(31:59):
.
Right, I'm a mom, I'm anemployee, I'm a daughter, I, you
know, I have all these otherthings that, if I focus in on
what my body can do and what theamazing aspects of it, that's a
.
That's a good shift in themindset, because I've talked to
people about this over the years.
And if you're listening to this,think about how many times a
(32:20):
day do you potentially say anegative thing about your body
to yourself, and is it multipletimes a day?
And then what is that doing forus?
Is that helping or hurting ourhealth, right?
So such an important principleand something we can all
certainly work on.
The next principle that I wouldlike to talk about here is and
(32:42):
this will be the last one we'lltalk about for the podcast, just
because of time is challengingthe food police.
Can you talk about the foodpolice, the good versus bad
foods, and how does that hurt us?
Kristi Docwra (32:55):
the food police, the good versus bad foods, and
how does that hurt us?
You know I was thinking aboutthis one a lot and I can
remember.
I've been in the health andwellness industry for 14 plus
years now and every role thatI've been in I remember walking
through the office and it wasalmost as if people thought I
was the food police.
They would hide whatever theywere eating and they're you know
(33:17):
.
Have you ever experienced that.
Lacy Wolff (33:20):
Oh my gosh, absolutely Just because of my
title and my role, if I go tolunch with people or I go, I
better have a salad, Exactly.
Kristi Docwra (33:30):
Yeah, I mean judgment-free zone.
That's truly what intuitiveeating is all about as well.
And when we think aboutchallenging the food police, it
ties in our thoughts, ourfeelings and behaviors, which
are often shaped, when we thinkabout it, by our environment, by
the people we surroundourselves with, by social media.
(33:51):
And I want you to think aboutthis too.
We were not born labeling foodsas healthy or not healthy or
good or bad.
That was not part of ourvocabulary, right, it's
something that we built overtime, or a thinking that we
built over time, and theseperceptions that we have, or the
(34:15):
lenses we see things through.
So when we talk about the foodpolice, that's truly your inner
critic.
It's that little voice that issaying, hey, why are you eating
that?
Or that's not healthy, thingslike that.
So it brings that shame andguilt aspect to the eating
(34:36):
equation and it gets you awayfrom honoring your body signals.
So it pushes you further fromthat, because you have those
voices telling you.
So let's, let's talk through alittle scenario real quick of
that internal tug of war thatour minds go through.
Let's say you know, you decide.
(34:56):
Okay, I'm going to swap yogurtfor dessert.
Right, I'm going to be good, Iwant to swap yogurt for dessert
and that internal dialogue, thatinternal voice, is way to go.
That was a healthy swap, butwhat you find is that that
didn't really satisfy you andyou're still hungry.
(35:17):
So next thing you find yourselfdoing is reaching for that
chocolate protein shake.
Internal voice again don'tdrink that, you don't need it.
You've already eaten something,but you still don't have that
satisfaction.
So you finally grab, you walkinto the kitchen and you grab
(35:39):
that handful of trail mix andthat internal voice continuing
down that road of you're nothungry, don't eat that.
So ultimately, going throughthat scenario, would it have
been better to just take thosefew bites of dessert versus
eating those three differentthings?
(36:01):
I mean, lacey, what do youthink?
Lacy Wolff (36:03):
Absolutely, because you're just searching for the
satisfaction.
In the Wonder Health program,one of the things that I took
from that kind of early on wasand this is part of that
interception at mindfulness islike ask yourself do you want
something savory, are youlooking for something sweet?
What texture are you lookingfor?
And for me, a lot of times forbreakfast I realized I was
(36:27):
forcing myself to actually eatyogurt and fruit because it was
good food.
But then I'm like actually Ilearned through going through
that program I want eggs, I wantsavory, I want eggs and
tomatoes.
It's going to make me moresatisfied and I'm going to be
less likely to overeat or tocome back and try to, like you
(36:49):
said, eat another thing becauseI'm actually getting what I need
.
So, yeah, that's such a greatscenario and I think everybody
can probably relate to thatfeeling of searching for what
you're missing.
Kristi Docwra (37:03):
Yeah, even going back to what we talked about
earlier, that stop framework,being able to pause and
recognizing what do you trulywant, right Versus trying to
satisfy that specific thing byhaving multiple things, and I
think a lot of times bread carbs, we label them as bad foods and
(37:28):
I'm not saying that eatingwhite bread is going to be the
best thing for our blood sugar.
Lacy Wolff (37:35):
But at the same time , if you look at French people,
who have the lowest rates ofheart disease, they eat white
bread, french bread, you knowit's, it's just interesting, but
they don't stress out about it,they just eat, and so there's
there's not restriction aroundthe diet, and so it is all so
(37:55):
fascinating.
I was also thinking about DanHarris.
In a podcast I listened to onthis topic, he said that his
wife had ordered him avocadotoast and he couldn't even enjoy
it because he was tellinghimself like you can't eat bread
, bread is bad, but he ate it.
You shouldn't be eating it.
But then how much more damageare we causing in the fact that
(38:17):
we're so stressed out becausewe're eating the bread?
So I don't know, it can becomplicated, but I think it's
really worth having thoseconversations with ourselves
internally asking ourselves whydo I think this is good or this
is bad?
Kristi Docwra (38:32):
Absolutely.
I know we've talked about tyingthat moral code to food, yeah,
and why do we feel the need todo that?
And how does that kind ofspiral and again impact?
You know our psyche and how werelate to food.
I was thinking the other dayyou know a lot of times when we
(38:52):
restrict foods or you know we'retrying to eat a certain way day
.
You know a lot of times when werestrict foods or you know
we're trying to eat a certainway, which you know there are
exceptions to the rule, like ifyou're gluten-free, you have to
eat a certain way, if you maybe.
I was telling you, lacey, thatmy mom's gout flare up a few
years ago.
She had to eatanti-inflammatory foods, and so
(39:15):
what I want to say, too, is thatwhen is it stopping you from
living your life right?
When is, like, if you're goingout to dinner with your family
maybe it's something y'all doevery Friday and you're looking
at the menu several hours aheadof time, trying to pick what
you're going to eat becauseyou're so afraid of eating
(39:36):
certain foods, and when you getto the restaurant, you're not
fully able to engage in theexperience because you're so
concerned about the food thatyou're eating and not having
dessert.
So when things start to impactthe way you're living your life
and the way you're interactingand experiencing life, that's
(39:58):
where intuitive eating can bevery supportive and challenging
some of those thoughts andbringing the joy back to your
food experiences and not makingit just about the food but about
the full experience it justabout the food, but about the
(40:19):
full experience.
Lacy Wolff (40:20):
I love that.
Well, Christy, I said this wasa 30 minute podcast and I get so
excited about this topic wehave gone over, so I'm going to.
I have more questions.
I could talk about this all day, but I'm going to go ahead and
wrap it up with the questionthat I like to ask every guest.
We talk a lot about Buena Vidathat's the name of our wellbeing
program, which means good life.
What is a good life for you?
Kristi Docwra (40:42):
I love this question, Lacey.
I think a good life for me isbeing able to enjoy moments with
my family.
I have a eight-year-olddaughter and I have dogs and a
fish as well, so being able tofully be present in those
moments.
I think sometimes I get sowrapped up in things that I'm
(41:06):
doing that I lose sight of that.
So I think the good life isreally being able to engage in
those moments that matter mostand those things that matter
most each and every day.
Lacy Wolff (41:18):
Well, it seems very appropriate that you are
teaching mindfulness to all ofus, since that is something that
you care about so much andstaying present.
So thank you for all you do tosupport our health plan
participants.
You and Valerie and Liz are alljust incredible resources.
We're so lucky to have you, andif you're listening to this
(41:41):
podcast and you have not beenacquainted with our Blue Cross,
blue Shield wellness team, theyare out at events, they are
featured on our webinars, theyhave all kinds of ways to stay
connected and I'll have all ofthat in our show notes.
If you want to join a webinaror a fitness or nutrition
community, call or learn moreabout your benefits.
So, thank you, christy.
You are amazing, really, reallyappreciate your time.
(42:03):
Thank you, lacey.
All right, everybody.
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode.
This is a topic that ispersonally very important to me,
something that I'm working onmyself.
I think we've really onlyscratched the surface in this
conversation as to whatintuitive eating is and how it
can transform your relationshipwith food and with yourself, and
(42:25):
I know you probably have a lotmore questions on the topic.
If this sparked something inyou, I really encourage you to
keep exploring in our show notessomething in you, and I really
encourage you to keep exploring.
In our show notes, you'll findsome helpful resources that can
guide you in your next steps,including a fillable handout to
help you reflect on your owneating patterns, a link to
Christie's guided meditationsessions, which pair beautifully
(42:48):
with this approach, andrecommendations for both the
intuitive eating book andworkbook.
If you want to dig deeper, asalways, I'd love to hear what
resonated with you, yourtakeaways, your questions, your
aha moments.
You can find me at the emailprovided in the show notes.
Thanks again for joining ustoday, and here's to nourishing
(43:10):
yourself with more curiosity,kindness and trust.
Thanks so much, and have aBuena Vida day.
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