July 29, 2025 • 42 mins
Michael Bates' journey from correctional officer to Deputy Director of Rehabilitation and Reentry at the Texas Department of Criminal Justice reveals what true transformation looks like, both personally and systemically.
When Bates began his career in 2008, he saw TDCJ primarily through the lens of security and public safety. Today, he champions a more holistic vision: one where rehabilitation, dignity, and second chances stand alongside those crucial safety measures. His rapid rise through the ranks—becoming assistant warden at just 30 years old—taught him valuable lessons about leadership, humility, and the importance of experience.
What makes this conversation particularly powerful is Bates' candor about his own shortcomings. He shares how his younger self lacked empathy for staff with family responsibilities, and how becoming a parent himself transformed his understanding of work-life balance. This personal growth mirrors the evolution he's helping lead throughout TDCJ, where innovative programs are changing lives daily.
The Bartlett Innovation Unit stands as perhaps the most visible example of this new approach. Here, incarcerated individuals care for animals, receive vocational training, and participate in moving "bell ceremonies" when someone completes their sentence. Dressed in donated suits with jobs often already secured, these individuals ring a bell symbolizing their transition to freedom while the entire facility cheers them on.
Bates also speaks truthfully about the mental and physical toll correctional work takes. His personal health journey—giving up Dr Pepper, meal prepping, and exercising despite grueling schedules—offers practical wisdom for anyone in demanding professions. His definition of "the good life" as achieving meaningful work-life balance resonates far beyond prison walls.
Whether you work in corrections, public service, or simply care about how our justice system might better serve both public safety and human dignity, this conversation offers hope that through dedicated leadership and innovative approaches, transformation is possible—one person, one program, one bell ceremony at a time.
If you are interested in donating a suit to the Bartlett Innovation Unit, please send to: 1018 Arnold Drive, Bartlett, Texas 76511. Attention: JessieMajors
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The majority of them have jobs lined up and they walk
out in these suits and they'relooking great and they get to
ring a bell as a symbol of thatclosure of one chapter in their
life and into the next.
And it's amazing, it's powerful.
Everybody is there to supportthis individual taking that next
(00:22):
step and they all see that, asthey continue their journey in
incarceration, that that's wherethey're headed.
They're headed to that bellceremony.
They're going to get out andthey're going to be a productive
part of society.
I think it was about the timethat I was an assistant warden.
I looked at myself in themirror and I didn't like what I
saw.
I was what I consideredoverweight, my blood pressure
(00:43):
was terrible and I was eatinghorribly.
It is something that takes time.
It is not an immediate response.
You don't see it immediately,but the benefits are there and
it's hard.
It truly is.
I know there are people outthere listening.
They're going to say I'mworking mandatory overtime, I'm
working 14-hour shifts, I'mworking six days a week.
(01:03):
I understand it is hard.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Buena Vida
podcast, where we explore whatit means to live the good life
in public service.
I'm your host, lacey Wolfe, andtoday's episode is one I feel
especially grateful to sharewith you.
My guest today is Michael Bates, deputy Director of the
Rehabilitation and ReentryDivision at the Texas Department
of Criminal Justice.
He is a leader that not onlyunderstands the complexities of
(01:29):
our justice system, but is alsoconstantly working on himself,
which makes this conversationincredibly powerful.
In our discussion, he walks usthrough his journey from
correctional officer to wardento his current role.
He talks candidly aboutleadership, humility and the
hard earned lessons that shapedhim not just as a professional
(01:49):
but as a person.
He also shares the amazing workbeing done across TDCJ to
support rehabilitation andreentry, from helping people
earn trade certifications andsecure employment before release
to the moving bell ceremoniesat the Bartlett Innovation Unit
that honor individuals steppinginto a new chapter of their
lives.
(02:10):
This episode helped me to see adifferent side of TDCJ, one
focused on healing, purpose andsecond chances, and I think it's
a great reminder that peoplecan grow, systems can evolve and
leadership is often mostpowerful when it comes from a
place of self-awareness andcompassion.
So grab a cup of coffee, or puton your walking shoes and join
(02:31):
me for this inspiringconversation with Michael Bates.
Here we go.
Michael Bates, thank you somuch for driving to Austin from
Huntsville and for being a gueston the Buena Vida podcast.
It's really good to sit downand have a conversation with you
.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Absolutely.
I appreciate the invitation.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I wanted to start out just by having you
explain to our listeners yourjourney from correctional
officer to warden to now servingas a deputy director.
You've shot up through theranks very quickly.
Can you just tell people alittle bit about your journey?
How did you get here?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Sure.
So I started with TDCJ back in2008 and at the Ellis unit out
there by Riverside, texas, and Icame to Huntsville for
originally to attend Sam HoustonState University, and so while
I was going to school during theday, I would work at night, and
so I did that for a few yearsuntil I got my undergrad degree.
(03:27):
And as I did that, as soon as Igraduated I was also applying
to other areas and I found somepromotional opportunities within
TDCJ.
So I promoted a sergeant onEllis and while I was seeking
other employment I was alsoinvested heavily in TDCJ.
(03:48):
Because I'd been doing it forthe last three years, lieutenant
at the Clemens unit in Brazoria, texas, I realized that this
was a career that I could reallysee myself getting behind and
(04:10):
going forward with in long term,and so from there I went back
to the Ellis unit as a captainand then over to Ferguson unit
in Midway as a major and thenall the way to the Telford unit
in New Boston as assistantwarden, and then from assistant
warden I kind of bounced aroundas a couple of senior wardens to
Havens in Brownwood, texas,back down to the Houston area in
(04:32):
Rose Sharon at the CT Terrellunit and then my last senior
warden assignment was at theClemens unit where I was a
lieutenant, and so one of thegreatest things about this
agency is there are units allover the state of Texas, and so
you really have the opportunityto travel the state and see all
kinds of things working for thisagency, and so I really see the
(04:56):
benefit of what we do.
The mission, you know providingpublic safety, first and
foremost, reintegrating inmatesinto society.
Providing public safety firstand foremost, reintegrating
inmates into society.
And then you know we'reassisting victims of crime by
trying to make sure that theseguys and ladies are
rehabilitating and changingtheir thought process and making
sure that they're a good personin society when we release them
(05:16):
.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's amazing.
How old were you when you werepromoted to warden?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
When I made assistant warden at the Telford unit, I
was 30.
Promoted to warden when I madeassistant warden at the Telford
unit, I was 30.
And then when I went to the TRHavens unit, I was 32.
And so I was pretty young and Itell everybody, you know I went
really fast in promotions andthere's a lot of pitfalls there.
You know your age is only anumber and I tell everybody that
(05:46):
age is only a number.
You know maturity, that that'ssomething that comes with time
and and I've I've seen that nowbut the experience is something
that you really really have toweigh out.
And so when I see people thatare really going through ranking
promotions quickly now, Ialways, always tell them it's
great If you're ready, that's agreat thing, but just be careful
(06:08):
, because at some level you'regoing to be at a level to where
your experience doesn't supportit.
And you are learning life hardlessons as you go, and it's not
the little easy ones, it's notthe little stumbles.
Sometimes you fall hard and youhave to get back up and dust
yourself off, and so throughoutmy career I've experienced a few
(06:29):
of those and always been ableto jump back up and dust myself
off and move forward butdefinitely learned some hard
life lessons and some careerlessons throughout the journey.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I can only imagine being at that age and
being responsible for an entireprison unit, and also you're
supervising people much olderthan you, I'm guessing, so it's
probably got to be somewhatchallenging.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, ma'am, I remember being a sergeant at the
Ellis unit in 2011 and here Iwas 22 years old and thought I
knew everything, and I wassupervising staff members who
literally had 35, 36 years inthe system that were you know
about to retire, and you'retelling them what to do and
they're just kind of looking atyou like what do you know?
(07:15):
And so there's that level ofprove yourself.
There's that level of trying tomake sure that you portray the
confidence, but that not thearrogance.
You have to understand thedifference of the two, and it
took me a long time to reallyunderstand that there was a
balance, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah Well, what a journey you've had.
I have so much compassion and Ihave a really special place in
my heart for our TDCJ employeesreally special place in my heart
for our TDCJ employees.
My dad was a correctionalofficer for many years in
Stanford, texas, at the PriceDaniel unit, and I think a lot
of people just don't reallyunderstand the challenges with
(07:55):
the role of a correctionalofficer or what it's like to be
in a prison unit.
Could you sort of paint apicture of what it is for our
listeners that maybe don't workfor TDCJ or understand what it
is like in there?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Absolutely First and foremost, I would say let's not
watch a bunch of movies andthink that we know a lot about
prison, because everything isYou're saying.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It's not like Orange is the New Black.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I would have to go.
No, you know, of course TV isgoing to sensationalize
everything.
There are some truths, but forthe most part you look at it and
just laugh and say that'snowhere near what it is.
The first thing that I wouldsay is it's a city on a schedule
.
And so you have, you know, someof these larger facilities, two
to three thousand incarceratedindividuals.
(08:39):
You'll have three or fourhundred staff members on duty at
any given time, whether that'ssecurity staff, medical staff,
support staff, administrativestaff, and so everybody has a
job to do.
Everybody has a mission, andwhen you really kind of sit back
and look at it, it's very, veryimpressive.
(09:01):
It's super busy.
You know, dawn to dusk is aneasy one, but even extends
beyond that.
We have janitors out cleaning,you have certificate, and then
you have people that are workingin our laundry, support, our
(09:29):
food service departments, ourmaintenance departments, and so
you have staff and inmates thatare essentially working hand in
hand to accomplish a mission.
And so it's very impressive.
And it'll almost take you backwhen you really start to peel
back the layers at just how hardeverybody works to achieve the
mission and how well it works ona daily basis.
(09:52):
You know it's so easy to talkabout failures.
We always talk, and there waskind of an inside joke I would
tell my staff members is youknow how many flights take place
in and out of the Houstonairports every day?
And everybody would just kindof throw your hands up and
nobody talks about the flightsthat took off from an airport
(10:13):
and landed at another airport.
Well, but everybody knows aboutan incident that occurs with an
airport or an airplane becauseit affects everybody, right, and
so nobody talks about prisonsthat run well every day of the
year, but that time that we havean incident, everybody wants to
talk about it.
(10:33):
So I try to tell staff don'tdwell on the negativity.
You know we're going to stumbleand fall every once in a while,
but really really focus on thefact that we are providing
public safety, we are doing agreat job every day and we're
achieving the mission every day,and so we can't let sometimes
(10:54):
the stumbles and the failuresreally define us.
We have to learn from them.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, definitely, and I think a lot of folks.
It's sort of out of sight, outof mind, something that people
don't really pay attention to ona regular day-to-day basis.
So can you talk a little bitabout what made you want to get
into this line of work?
It's obviously very mentallyand physically challenging.
What keeps you going day-to-day?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Sure, when I started, when I came to Huntsville and
was going to Sam Houston, I wasgetting my degree in business
and I was thinking that I wantedto be a DPS trooper.
I've always, as a kid, alwayswanted to be some sort of law
enforcement.
I always saw the greater goodin, you know, protecting the
public safety and all of thosethings that we think about when
we're growing up.
And when I graduated and Istarted applying to DPS and I
(11:46):
also started looking atpromotional opportunities within
while I was waiting for theapplication process, I noticed
that I didn't see the entireagency.
When I was a correctionalofficer, I saw it as a stepping
stone to something else.
And then, as I started promotingwhile I was doing these
application processes, I sawsomething different.
(12:07):
I saw that we were providingpublic safety, we were changing
lives, we were touchingthousands of people and I didn't
necessarily have to be a DPStrooper.
And so I didn't get in on thefirst application round for DPS
and I really think that that wasprobably a really good sign for
me that TDCJ was going to be afuture career.
(12:29):
So it was kind of a blessing indisguise.
At the time I didn't quiteunderstand, and then, looking
back on it now, throughout my myamazing career that I've had so
far, that it's just been a trueblessing, and so I've really
got to enjoy what we do as anagency and and the people that
really make this agency runevery day, the unsung heroes
(12:49):
that are there every single day,from our correctional officers
to our administrative supportstaff, just to everybody out
there that are doing these jobsand not being seen.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely Well, the jobs are certainly demanding.
Scene Absolutely Well, the jobsare certainly demanding.
And to your point coming backand really recognizing why and
how TDCJ functions on a largerscale, that can help to keep you
going.
From talking to you and knowingpeople who have worked with you
over the years, I understandthat you have gone through some
(13:23):
personal transformation.
I'm wondering if you could talka little bit about that and
what sparked change in you as aleader.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh, wow.
I hope that someone out therelistening to this can remember
me from 2012, 2013, 2012, 2013,.
And I can apologize to them.
And so when I talk about abouta level of confidence, versus
(13:53):
being arrogant and being youngand trying to supervise all of
these people and portray thispersona that may not be true and
accurate, I look back at mytime as a lieutenant at the
Clemens unit in Brazoria, and atthe time I was married.
Me and my wife had recentlybeen married.
(14:15):
We just promoted a lieutenant,we moved from Huntsville to
Brazoria, and so we're livingthere and I'm working at the
Clemens unit and theyimmediately put me on first
shift, which is anybody thatwould like to know about prison.
First shift is usually one ofthe busiest shifts.
It's when all of the things ofthe day are happening education,
(14:35):
a lot of movement throughoutthe day so it's extremely busy,
it's extremely taxing, and I wasa very young minded person and
I didn't have a lot ofunderstanding about life and at
the time we didn't have any kids, and so I had a lot of single
(14:57):
parents that worked for me and Ididn't treat them the way they
should have been treated.
They were doing everything theycould to provide for their
family, and all I saw was anumber or a name on a piece of
paper that could achieve themission that day.
And so I remember, day afterday, people would call in and
(15:18):
say, hey, I'm not going to beable to make it to work today,
my child's sick, or we'd be atwork in a daycare or school
would call and say, hey, we needto talk to this person, they
need to come pick up their child.
And I almost had nounderstanding.
I take that back.
I had no understanding and Iwas almost rude to these people
(15:38):
for trying to take care of theirfamily.
Why can't you be at work?
Why can't we do this?
You're always leaving.
You're always having theseproblems.
Fast forward three or four orfive or six years and now I have
two kids and me and my wifeboth work full-time jobs.
(16:00):
Kids and me and my wife bothwork full-time jobs, and I see
that it's it's hard.
It's hard in nowadays time toprovide for your family, to keep
them healthy and keep themwhere they need to be at, and
and dedicate the time that youneed to dedicate to work.
And so I look back and I just Iwish I could go back and beat
myself up and just kind of slapsome sense into me.
(16:21):
So I hope that those peoplethere that I didn't negatively
impact them too much.
I always thought that I wasdoing the right thing, and so I
really think that my life now isabout learning and getting
better.
Every day I'm not there.
I'm continually working onmyself every day.
It's been a marked journey forMichael Bates, and I hope that
(16:45):
people around me can say thesame thing, and I know that I
have faults, and so I work onthose and will continue to work
on those for probably the restof my life.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So you're a human.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I guess I try to be, not be the robot.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, everybody I think all of us, if we look back
over our life, have things thatwe regret as far as leadership
and, to your point, being soyoung in that position was
probably a huge impact, I think,for me as a mom.
I was one of those people thatI didn't understand having kids
until I had them and I would beon an airplane before kids like
(17:22):
these screaming kids.
And now I want to help peopleon the airplane because I have
been the person with thosescreaming kids and it's not easy
.
So time, experience, all ofthose things certainly do change
us and help support leadershipalong the way.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So in your current role you are the Director of
Rehabilitation and ReentryDivision and that sounds really
important.
It's a major part of themission of TDCJ.
Can you tell people just alittle bit about what all does
that mean?
Rehabilitation and reentry?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Sure, I guess I would like to start out with.
I think when you start and youhear the Texas Department of
Criminal Justice, the number onething that stands out to you is
prison.
Oh, that's all we do is prison,right, and I even have to admit
, as being a correctionalofficer and coming up through
the correctional ranks, thatprison and security was what we
(18:22):
knew, that's what we do, weprovide public safety and that's
what Texas Department ofCriminal Justice stands for.
But there's so many things thatthis agency does, that really
kind of work behind the scenes,that do not get that publicity.
And so, yes, the RehabilitationReentry Division.
(18:43):
When this opportunity came about, it was so far in left field
that I was just.
I had an opportunity, I saw itand I knew that I didn't have
very much experience with thislevel of programmatic activity,
with the re-entry, the releasingside, the aspect of it, and so
(19:06):
I jumped at it.
Here I am a whole whopping five, six months into this position
and it's just opened up a levelof, it's drawn the curtains back
and it's shown me so much thatwe do that I really didn't
understand and I'm just nowlearning, and so I still tell
(19:26):
everybody it's like drinkingfrom five fire hydrants.
Right now we do so much inrehabilitation reentry division.
It's amazing Monitoring theparole voted programs, making
sure inmates get to theirprogram on time, making sure
that they can successfullycomplete it and they can suffice
their parole vote so they canbe released and become a
(19:48):
positive citizen in the state ofTexas.
Again, we have the reentryaspect of it to where we have
case managers that are workinghand in hand with our
incarcerated individuals, makingsure that they have the
appropriate documentation youknow, getting birth certificates
, getting social security cards,getting their picture ID cards
(20:09):
so when they get out they canimmediately start seeking jobs.
And then, when you go on top ofthat, you look at Mr Collier's
2030 plan with trying to getpeople employed before they're
released, we are really making apush for our employment of
these guys and ladies beforethey leave, and so we have an
entire section of employmentcoordinators that are really
(20:33):
trying to foster that growthwith employers and our
incarcerated individuals,putting the skilled labor in
front of the appropriateemployers and having that job
lined up as soon as they walkout of the gates.
They can immediately have alegitimate means of income and
(20:55):
can start supporting themselves,because it's difficult out here
.
I mean, it really is at anylevel.
If you're trying to support afamily on a minimum wage, you're
working two, three, four, fivejobs and as much overtime as you
can, and how sustainable isthat right?
So we're doing vocationaltechnologies, welding and
(21:17):
culinary arts, and renewableenergies.
Those are jobs that can providea very good level of income for
these individuals that arereleasing, and so why not
exploit that?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's fantastic and I think, when we look at really
the mission of TDCJ is torehabilitate and help people
with that re-entry into society,so that you come back and are a
functioning member of societyand we reduce crime rates.
And, like you said, it's allabout public safety.
Tell me about the BartlettInnovation Unit.
I have heard some great storiesabout what is going on at the
(21:52):
Bartlett Innovation Unit.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Sure, I hope that I can do it justice right.
I've been on quite a fewfacilities and been assigned to
quite a few facilities andbigger, larger facilities that
usually have some of thebehavioral issues, and so that's
a lot of my experience withprison.
My first day walking onto theBartlett Innovation Unit was, as
(22:14):
my position now, the DeputyDirector of Rehabilitation
Reentry Division and I walk in.
It's a normal, everyday lookingfacility.
When you walk through the frontdoors and you're in the admin
area you're talking to peopleand everybody just has an upbeat
attitude.
And then you walk through thesecured area, the secured sally
(22:35):
port, onto the actual sidewalkand you're met by goats and
chickens and ducks and manyhorses and donkeys and rabbits
and you're seeing staff interactwith incarcerated inmates and
treating them like humans, likethey need to be right, and it's
(22:58):
just inspiring.
There are programs that we'rerunning in tangent with
chaplains and volunteer servicesdivision.
You have Wyndham SchoolDistrict out there.
You have a very heavy presenceof the rehabilitation reentry
Division out there.
There's a large population ofveterans that are on the
(23:20):
Bartlett unit and so you have acolor guard and an honor guard
standing outside presentingcolors in the morning.
It is just, it's an amazingthing to see.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
That's amazing.
Actually, somebody sent me somepictures from one of the
graduations that were.
I mean, it'll bring tears toyour eyes to see the picture and
I'll try to explain.
It was several of the inmatestogether praying before they
were sending somebody out thegate to freedom.
Can you share?
Like, what is that process,that graduation process, look
(23:54):
like and talk about how?
I think one of the other thingsI thought was amazing is the
suits that you send everybodyout in a suit.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I have to give a giant shout out to Warden Lori
Larson she's been doing anamazing job out there at
Bartlett and all of the divisiondirectors and all of the
executive leadership in TDCJthat have supported the Bartlett
Innovation Unit.
I know that if I could startgiving shout outs to everybody,
we'd be here for the next hour,but so you were referring to
(24:23):
what I believe they call thebell ceremony, and so anybody
that's on the Bartlett Unit thatis leaving whether that's
parole discharge or what haveyou they walk up front and they
have a brass bell that's hangingthere right on the inside of
the secured facility, and all ofthe inmate population are
(24:43):
invited to these bell ceremonies.
And so we do.
We release these guys in fullsuits.
They look amazing, they'reenergized, they're ready to go,
they're prepared, and so theycome up there, they engage in
prayer, they engage in a chant.
It's all about an energy and avibe, as I continue to hear, and
(25:08):
so they're just pumping thisperson up, or these people up,
to take that next step into theuncertainty, the unknown right.
Most of them have beenincarcerated for a while, and
that next step is really a placeof nerves.
You know, you don't know whatyou're getting into.
You know you hear all thesehorror stories about oh, it's
(25:29):
expensive inflation tariffs.
You know what am I going to do?
The majority of them have jobslined up and they walk out in
these suits and they're lookinggreat and they get to ring a
bell as a symbol of that closureof one chapter in their life
and into the next.
And it's amazing, it's powerful.
(25:51):
You know, it's a great thing tobe out there to stand amongst
the population as they're doingthis and it's really a moment of
support.
Everybody is there to supportthis individual taking that next
step and they all see that, asthey continue their journey in
incarceration, that that's wherethey're headed.
(26:12):
They're headed to that bellceremony.
They're going to get out andthey're going to be a productive
part of society.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah Well, it's certainly inspiring work and I
can imagine very fulfilling tobe a part of that process in
anybody's life, and I just lovethat those suits are all donated
from people.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Absolutely, and so they have a locker room that's
what it's what's been coined asand when you walk in there it's
like going to men's warehouse.
There's suits everywhere andthey you know, they have to
inventory them all the time, andso I don't envy that job.
But that's a good problem tohave right now is we have suits,
but at the end of the day, wedon't have enough suits, and so
(26:53):
we're always asking for, youknow, whatever.
If anybody has anything thatthey're willing to donate, we're
absolutely willing to accept.
I do find it funny I I in myneighborhood, I had a individual
on our little Facebook page popup and say hey, got some suits
that I outgrew, and does anybodyneed them?
So I sent him a message and waslike hey, I would love to take
(27:16):
these off your hands.
And I gave him a video of oneof these bail ceremonies and of
an individual leaving in a suitand I said this is what you're
supporting.
And I knew that it waspolarizing, right.
I didn't know if somebody wasgoing to be willing to donate it
to a convicted felon, and theyjust absolutely were excited for
(27:37):
the opportunity for that suitto go to a better place, and so,
as soon as I pick it up, theywere like this is great, this is
amazing.
As soon as we have more, we'regoing to donate, we're going to
get with our church and we'regoing to try to find some more.
And so it's great to see peoplesupporting that, because I know
it can be polarizing Do youwant to donate to a felon or not
(27:58):
and so we got to realize thatthese are humans.
They're coming back to society.
Let's make sure that it's agood reintegration.
Let's make sure that they getthe chance that they deserve.
They've done their state signedtime.
Let's give them an opportunityto do a great thing.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
That's amazing.
And is there a women's unitthat is equivalent to Bartlett?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Not necessarily on the innovation side, but at the
O'Daniel unit we have the Striveprogram, where we have our
ladies and they have what theycall the boutique, and so it's
clothing that's businessprofessional, and they do job
interviews on Zoom and they'llbe wearing their business
(28:45):
professional uniforms instead ofall white uniform, and so
getting them ready for releaseand getting them ready for
integration, and so if anybodyhas any ladies clothes that they
would like to donate, weabsolutely have an area for that
and just across the state, just, we release all day long, every
day, and so we always needclothes.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I love that.
I'll get that information fromyou and we'll put it in the show
notes If you're listening andwant to donate to the cause.
I think it's a wonderful thingto support that re-entry.
All right, I wanted to talk alittle bit about mental health
with you.
I know that I have seen, sinceI've been working in this role
with TDCJ, there's been a shiftin the culture and really I feel
(29:28):
like your leadership is makinga concerted effort like talking
to Director Mendoza, who was onthe podcast as well to support
mental health of of theemployees at TDCJ.
What are your thoughts there?
How, how is that going?
What?
What's happening on the mentalhealth front to support
employees?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So I first have to acknowledge the fact that this
job is extremely mentally taxing.
It is mentally, physically,emotionally taxing, and that can
be a difficult hurdle forpeople to as you have new staff
(30:09):
members coming in.
You have to learn thesephysical requirements.
You have to learn theseemotional requirements, these
psychological requirements onhow to deal with things that we
see on a daily basis.
And so I think that we aremaking really good strides and
we are in the right direction.
We have a lot of opportunity infront of us and kind of the
(30:33):
stigma is getting washed awayfrom some of that mental health
aspect.
You know, I would love to saythat I'm great at it and that
I've always been good at dealingwith the stress of this job,
but that's just not the case.
We deal with long hours, youdeal with problems all day long,
whether you know they'reranging from very minute to you
(30:54):
know whether they're rangingfrom very minute to the worst of
the worst emergencies.
I think everybody has to comeup with their own coping
mechanisms, and I really focuson the healthy coping mechanisms
, because a lot of people referback to a chemical dependency or
use of alcohol or these thingsthat are negative to ourselves,
(31:16):
that are kind of justself-destructive.
I really see a good push fromexecutive leadership, ers, from
just Buena Vida, I mean all ofthe things that we have
available Hello Heart, hingeHealth, all of these things that
our staff members have thatthey may not know about, and so
I encourage them to look at thewebsites, or our TDCJ website,
(31:40):
to look at peak performance, toreach out and really look at all
of those resources that areavailable.
We give administrative leave topeople that get a annual
wellness exam with theirphysician, just something simple
like that.
You know, catch something atthe beginning.
Let's address high bloodpressure early on.
(32:02):
Let's address those smallhealth things that are going to
lead to bigger problems down theroad, and so keep ourselves
healthy, stay active.
We work 8, 10, 12 hours, 14hours, 16 hours a day.
You come home and you just wantto crash.
You don't want to talk toanybody, you don't want to, you
don't want to exercise, youdon't want to do all these
(32:24):
things, you don't want toexercise, you don't want to do
all these things, and I quicklyfound myself a victim of that.
I remember being a major at theFerguson unit and it was a
never-ending job.
You would work 10, 12, 14 hoursin the day.
You would get home and yourphone would ring.
It would be people withproblems on night shift.
(32:45):
It would be unit administrationasking questions about things
that were done during the day,and there wasn't time to
exercise, there wasn't time tomeditate and do all these things
, and at some level I think itwas about the time that I was an
(33:05):
assistant warden.
I looked at myself in the mirrorand I didn't like what I saw.
I was what I consideredoverweight.
My blood pressure was terribleand I was eating horribly, and
so I made a conscious decision Igave up my biggest love of my
life, dr Pepper.
I started eating better, Istarted paying attention to what
I was actually putting in mybody, started exercising.
(33:34):
I lost a pretty good amount ofweight and just immediately saw
the benefits of that hard workand my blood pressure dropped
and I was doing better and Ithought I was in a good place.
And so then I went through acouple of different promotions,
made it to senior warden atClemens, and I realized that I
could do better, and so Istarted working more on my
(33:56):
health and so started runningand started doing different
things and trying to get into abetter place in my health and
eventually achieve that, or Isay achieve that I'm still
working on it, but went from aplace where I probably should
have been medicated on bloodpressure to now I check my blood
(34:17):
pressure and it's almost, Iwould say, perfect, but it's
good.
I really try to focus on thehealthy aspect.
And it's hard, it truly is.
I know there are people outthere listening.
They're going to say I'mworking mandatory overtime, I'm
working 14 hour shifts, I'mworking six days a week.
I understand it is hard, it isa very conscious decision and it
(34:43):
is something that takes timeand it's not an immediate
response.
You don't see it immediately,but the benefits are there.
That's long-term.
I encourage people that are inthe correctional field to look
at some of the statistics forthe comorbidities and the health
problems that exist in ourprofession and really take
(35:07):
strides to prevent that, becausewe can.
We can prevent alcoholism, wecan prevent obesity, we can
prevent some of those thingsthat really will increase our
lifespan, because I don't wantto retire and die two days later
, you know, and andunfortunately we see that in our
profession, and so I reallywant to leave this, this career,
(35:30):
whenever I decide to leave andretire in a healthy form, in a
healthy fashion, to where I canenjoy that retirement.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, and I'm wondering if you could just sort
of dig into a little bit more.
How did you do it?
Because I think there are a lotof people out there probably
that are working these longshifts and are exhausted and
don't know how you talked aboutwith your personal journey.
You taught out the Dr Pepper.
Was that like step one?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
That was probably step one, and it was a hard one.
That was a hard one.
I really enjoyed drinking DrPepper.
It was a great taste, great, Iloved it.
But at the end of the day,there's a lot of sugar, there's
a lot of carbs, there's a lot ofcalories and it doesn't help
you any.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Did you replace it with something else?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Water, lots of water, yeah, but you know water can
get boring, and so you kind ofhave to find what really works
for you.
I know you kind of have to findwhat really works for you.
There's a lot of zero sugaradditives out there.
You've got to be careful withthem, with the artificial
sweeteners.
Just really kind of researchingand playing what works best for
you, right?
And so I meal prep every Sunday, now for lunches, and I know
(36:43):
that correctional staff that'sgoing to be one thing is like oh
, I may not get a break.
How do I know that I'll be here?
I understand, but there'sopportunities to bring your
lunches.
You can pack a healthy snack.
Instead of eating a bag ofchips, you can have some carrots
.
I mean there are options outthere that are acceptable, that
(37:05):
aren't terrible.
I mean I'm not saying that weneed to go eat Brussels sprouts
every day, but hey, some airfried Brussels sprouts with a
little bit of olive oil is notbad.
It's not bad.
Some salt and pepper, it'sactually quite good, I would say
so.
Yeah, so every week we meal prepfor lunches and just trying to
focus on what we intake.
(37:25):
Right, Don't get me wrong.
I love some ice cream.
I grew up in Burnham, Texas,home of Blue Bell.
I absolutely love some BlueBell ice cream.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Who doesn't?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
But just in moderation.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yes, absolutely Well, and I love how you said it's
been a journey.
It's not a one and done everwith our health.
It's a lifelong practice andwe're going to certainly have
ups and downs and all kinds oftwists and turns along the way.
So good, amazing that you'vebeen able to do that, and really
(37:57):
it is wonderful to see a leaderlike you in the position you're
in, because you can have thatinfluence and hopefully help
support other people that maywant to make those changes in
their life.
Thank you for mentioning as wellthe programs that we have
available through the healthplan.
I'm really proud of ERS forproviding benefits like this,
especially virtual benefits likethe Learn to Live Mental Health
Program or Hello, heart HingeHealth.
These are things that you canaccess at any time of day from
(38:19):
anywhere in the state of Texas.
So and we keep in mind youremployees when we are making
those decisions that because Ithink there are a lot of folks
out there in rural areas or thework shift work that might not
have access, and so we love thaty'all are getting that
information out to the employees, right?
I?
I always like to close out ourpodcast with the same question
(38:43):
for every guest, and we'vetalked about our program is
Buena Vida, which means goodlife, and I'm curious if you
could share with our listenerswhat is a good life for you.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
A good life.
I would say that we're going tosay something with a healthy
work-life balance and that one'shard.
That one took me a long timeand I am still working on that
to this day.
You probably could ask myfamily and I could do better,
(39:15):
but I've come a long ways fromwhere I was working six days a
week, 14 hours a day, and so wehave to get our job done.
Our agency has a mission soimportant that we have to make
sure that it gets done and sothat can affect work-life
balance.
(39:35):
We know that there's going tobe emergencies where we don't
get the opportunity to go homethat afternoon or on time or
something of that nature.
But we really have to focus onthat work-life balance and be
present when we have theopportunity to be present with
our families or with yourhobbies or with yourself or
(39:57):
whatever that is for you.
And so I really have focused onwhen I'm at home.
I'm at home and doingeverything I can to support my
kids and be there for theirfunctions and be there for my
wife and whatever we can thereand enjoy hobbies, the hunting,
the fishing, the being away fromwork, giving everything that
(40:22):
you have to do better and tomake sure that we're in a better
place when we leave this agencyin 10, 20, 30 years than it is
right now.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yes, absolutely Well, michael, it's been wonderful to
talk to you.
I have sort of gotten to knowyou through various meetings and
events at TDCJ and I've alwaysjust heard such great things
about you as a leader and aperson.
So I really appreciate youcoming in and taking some time
out to talk to all of ourlisteners and share some of your
(40:55):
great experience andinformation about what amazing
work y'all are doing at TDCJ.
Absolutely, I again Iappreciate the invitation.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
This was this was an amazing part.
It just, you know, I'm I'malways at all in my career
appreciate the invitation.
This was this was an amazingpart.
It just you know, I'm I'malways at all in my career of
the opportunities that I get,and this is one of them.
I would have never thought thatto me, I'm, I'm just Michael
Bates, and that's the best thatI can be.
I continue to to try to dobetter every day, but the things
that that you and this and ERSis doing, lacey, are amazing and
(41:23):
we appreciate that to no end,and so thank you very much for
what you do every day and lookforward to continuing working
with you Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
All right, that's a wrap on this episode of the
Buena Vida podcast.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
I want to thank Michael Batesfor sharing not only his
professional insights but alsohis heart.
His honesty about leadership,growth and personal
transformation certainly left meinspired and I hope it did the
same for you.
If you'd like to support someof the amazing work that was
(41:58):
mentioned in today's episode,like donating clothing or
learning more about the BellCeremonies, I have included
links in the show notes.
Thank you so much again forlistening.
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to follow the
Buena Vida podcast wherever youlisten to podcasts and share it
with someone that might use alittle inspiration today.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep growing and keep
(42:22):
building your own version of theBuena Vida.
Have a great day and take careeveryone.
The majority of them have jobs lined up and they walk
out in these suits and they'relooking great and they get to
ring a bell as a symbol of thatclosure of one chapter in their
life and into the next.
And it's amazing, it's powerful.
Everybody is there to supportthis individual taking that next
(00:22):
step and they all see that, asthey continue their journey in
incarceration, that that's wherethey're headed.
They're headed to that bellceremony.
They're going to get out andthey're going to be a productive
part of society.
I think it was about the timethat I was an assistant warden.
I looked at myself in themirror and I didn't like what I
saw.
I was what I consideredoverweight, my blood pressure
(00:43):
was terrible and I was eatinghorribly.
It is something that takes time.
It is not an immediate response.
You don't see it immediately,but the benefits are there and
it's hard.
It truly is.
I know there are people outthere listening.
They're going to say I'mworking mandatory overtime, I'm
working 14-hour shifts, I'mworking six days a week.
(01:03):
I understand it is hard.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Buena Vida
podcast, where we explore whatit means to live the good life
in public service.
I'm your host, lacey Wolfe, andtoday's episode is one I feel
especially grateful to sharewith you.
My guest today is Michael Bates, deputy Director of the
Rehabilitation and ReentryDivision at the Texas Department
of Criminal Justice.
He is a leader that not onlyunderstands the complexities of
(01:29):
our justice system, but is alsoconstantly working on himself,
which makes this conversationincredibly powerful.
In our discussion, he walks usthrough his journey from
correctional officer to wardento his current role.
He talks candidly aboutleadership, humility and the
hard earned lessons that shapedhim not just as a professional
(01:49):
but as a person.
He also shares the amazing workbeing done across TDCJ to
support rehabilitation andreentry, from helping people
earn trade certifications andsecure employment before release
to the moving bell ceremoniesat the Bartlett Innovation Unit
that honor individuals steppinginto a new chapter of their
lives.
(02:10):
This episode helped me to see adifferent side of TDCJ, one
focused on healing, purpose andsecond chances, and I think it's
a great reminder that peoplecan grow, systems can evolve and
leadership is often mostpowerful when it comes from a
place of self-awareness andcompassion.
So grab a cup of coffee, or puton your walking shoes and join
(02:31):
me for this inspiringconversation with Michael Bates.
Here we go.
Michael Bates, thank you somuch for driving to Austin from
Huntsville and for being a gueston the Buena Vida podcast.
It's really good to sit downand have a conversation with you
.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Absolutely.
I appreciate the invitation.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, I wanted to start out just by having you
explain to our listeners yourjourney from correctional
officer to warden to now servingas a deputy director.
You've shot up through theranks very quickly.
Can you just tell people alittle bit about your journey?
How did you get here?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Sure.
So I started with TDCJ back in2008 and at the Ellis unit out
there by Riverside, texas, and Icame to Huntsville for
originally to attend Sam HoustonState University, and so while
I was going to school during theday, I would work at night, and
so I did that for a few yearsuntil I got my undergrad degree.
(03:27):
And as I did that, as soon as Igraduated I was also applying
to other areas and I found somepromotional opportunities within
TDCJ.
So I promoted a sergeant onEllis and while I was seeking
other employment I was alsoinvested heavily in TDCJ.
(03:48):
Because I'd been doing it forthe last three years, lieutenant
at the Clemens unit in Brazoria, texas, I realized that this
was a career that I could reallysee myself getting behind and
(04:10):
going forward with in long term,and so from there I went back
to the Ellis unit as a captainand then over to Ferguson unit
in Midway as a major and thenall the way to the Telford unit
in New Boston as assistantwarden, and then from assistant
warden I kind of bounced aroundas a couple of senior wardens to
Havens in Brownwood, texas,back down to the Houston area in
(04:32):
Rose Sharon at the CT Terrellunit and then my last senior
warden assignment was at theClemens unit where I was a
lieutenant, and so one of thegreatest things about this
agency is there are units allover the state of Texas, and so
you really have the opportunityto travel the state and see all
kinds of things working for thisagency, and so I really see the
(04:56):
benefit of what we do.
The mission, you know providingpublic safety, first and
foremost, reintegrating inmatesinto society.
Providing public safety firstand foremost, reintegrating
inmates into society.
And then you know we'reassisting victims of crime by
trying to make sure that theseguys and ladies are
rehabilitating and changingtheir thought process and making
sure that they're a good personin society when we release them
(05:16):
.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's amazing.
How old were you when you werepromoted to warden?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
When I made assistant warden at the Telford unit, I
was 30.
Promoted to warden when I madeassistant warden at the Telford
unit, I was 30.
And then when I went to the TRHavens unit, I was 32.
And so I was pretty young and Itell everybody, you know I went
really fast in promotions andthere's a lot of pitfalls there.
You know your age is only anumber and I tell everybody that
(05:46):
age is only a number.
You know maturity, that that'ssomething that comes with time
and and I've I've seen that nowbut the experience is something
that you really really have toweigh out.
And so when I see people thatare really going through ranking
promotions quickly now, Ialways, always tell them it's
great If you're ready, that's agreat thing, but just be careful
(06:08):
, because at some level you'regoing to be at a level to where
your experience doesn't supportit.
And you are learning life hardlessons as you go, and it's not
the little easy ones, it's notthe little stumbles.
Sometimes you fall hard and youhave to get back up and dust
yourself off, and so throughoutmy career I've experienced a few
(06:29):
of those and always been ableto jump back up and dust myself
off and move forward butdefinitely learned some hard
life lessons and some careerlessons throughout the journey.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I can only imagine being at that age and
being responsible for an entireprison unit, and also you're
supervising people much olderthan you, I'm guessing, so it's
probably got to be somewhatchallenging.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, ma'am, I remember being a sergeant at the
Ellis unit in 2011 and here Iwas 22 years old and thought I
knew everything, and I wassupervising staff members who
literally had 35, 36 years inthe system that were you know
about to retire, and you'retelling them what to do and
they're just kind of looking atyou like what do you know?
(07:15):
And so there's that level ofprove yourself.
There's that level of trying tomake sure that you portray the
confidence, but that not thearrogance.
You have to understand thedifference of the two, and it
took me a long time to reallyunderstand that there was a
balance, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah Well, what a journey you've had.
I have so much compassion and Ihave a really special place in
my heart for our TDCJ employeesreally special place in my heart
for our TDCJ employees.
My dad was a correctionalofficer for many years in
Stanford, texas, at the PriceDaniel unit, and I think a lot
of people just don't reallyunderstand the challenges with
(07:55):
the role of a correctionalofficer or what it's like to be
in a prison unit.
Could you sort of paint apicture of what it is for our
listeners that maybe don't workfor TDCJ or understand what it
is like in there?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Absolutely First and foremost, I would say let's not
watch a bunch of movies andthink that we know a lot about
prison, because everything isYou're saying.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It's not like Orange is the New Black.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I would have to go.
No, you know, of course TV isgoing to sensationalize
everything.
There are some truths, but forthe most part you look at it and
just laugh and say that'snowhere near what it is.
The first thing that I wouldsay is it's a city on a schedule
.
And so you have, you know, someof these larger facilities, two
to three thousand incarceratedindividuals.
(08:39):
You'll have three or fourhundred staff members on duty at
any given time, whether that'ssecurity staff, medical staff,
support staff, administrativestaff, and so everybody has a
job to do.
Everybody has a mission, andwhen you really kind of sit back
and look at it, it's very, veryimpressive.
(09:01):
It's super busy.
You know, dawn to dusk is aneasy one, but even extends
beyond that.
We have janitors out cleaning,you have certificate, and then
you have people that are workingin our laundry, support, our
(09:29):
food service departments, ourmaintenance departments, and so
you have staff and inmates thatare essentially working hand in
hand to accomplish a mission.
And so it's very impressive.
And it'll almost take you backwhen you really start to peel
back the layers at just how hardeverybody works to achieve the
mission and how well it works ona daily basis.
(09:52):
You know it's so easy to talkabout failures.
We always talk, and there waskind of an inside joke I would
tell my staff members is youknow how many flights take place
in and out of the Houstonairports every day?
And everybody would just kindof throw your hands up and
nobody talks about the flightsthat took off from an airport
(10:13):
and landed at another airport.
Well, but everybody knows aboutan incident that occurs with an
airport or an airplane becauseit affects everybody, right, and
so nobody talks about prisonsthat run well every day of the
year, but that time that we havean incident, everybody wants to
talk about it.
(10:33):
So I try to tell staff don'tdwell on the negativity.
You know we're going to stumbleand fall every once in a while,
but really really focus on thefact that we are providing
public safety, we are doing agreat job every day and we're
achieving the mission every day,and so we can't let sometimes
(10:54):
the stumbles and the failuresreally define us.
We have to learn from them.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, definitely, and I think a lot of folks.
It's sort of out of sight, outof mind, something that people
don't really pay attention to ona regular day-to-day basis.
So can you talk a little bitabout what made you want to get
into this line of work?
It's obviously very mentallyand physically challenging.
What keeps you going day-to-day?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Sure, when I started, when I came to Huntsville and
was going to Sam Houston, I wasgetting my degree in business
and I was thinking that I wantedto be a DPS trooper.
I've always, as a kid, alwayswanted to be some sort of law
enforcement.
I always saw the greater goodin, you know, protecting the
public safety and all of thosethings that we think about when
we're growing up.
And when I graduated and Istarted applying to DPS and I
(11:46):
also started looking atpromotional opportunities within
while I was waiting for theapplication process, I noticed
that I didn't see the entireagency.
When I was a correctionalofficer, I saw it as a stepping
stone to something else.
And then, as I started promotingwhile I was doing these
application processes, I sawsomething different.
(12:07):
I saw that we were providingpublic safety, we were changing
lives, we were touchingthousands of people and I didn't
necessarily have to be a DPStrooper.
And so I didn't get in on thefirst application round for DPS
and I really think that that wasprobably a really good sign for
me that TDCJ was going to be afuture career.
(12:29):
So it was kind of a blessing indisguise.
At the time I didn't quiteunderstand, and then, looking
back on it now, throughout my myamazing career that I've had so
far, that it's just been a trueblessing, and so I've really
got to enjoy what we do as anagency and and the people that
really make this agency runevery day, the unsung heroes
(12:49):
that are there every single day,from our correctional officers
to our administrative supportstaff, just to everybody out
there that are doing these jobsand not being seen.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely Well, the jobs are certainly demanding.
Scene Absolutely Well, the jobsare certainly demanding.
And to your point coming backand really recognizing why and
how TDCJ functions on a largerscale, that can help to keep you
going.
From talking to you and knowingpeople who have worked with you
over the years, I understandthat you have gone through some
(13:23):
personal transformation.
I'm wondering if you could talka little bit about that and
what sparked change in you as aleader.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh, wow.
I hope that someone out therelistening to this can remember
me from 2012, 2013, 2012, 2013,.
And I can apologize to them.
And so when I talk about abouta level of confidence, versus
(13:53):
being arrogant and being youngand trying to supervise all of
these people and portray thispersona that may not be true and
accurate, I look back at mytime as a lieutenant at the
Clemens unit in Brazoria, and atthe time I was married.
Me and my wife had recentlybeen married.
(14:15):
We just promoted a lieutenant,we moved from Huntsville to
Brazoria, and so we're livingthere and I'm working at the
Clemens unit and theyimmediately put me on first
shift, which is anybody thatwould like to know about prison.
First shift is usually one ofthe busiest shifts.
It's when all of the things ofthe day are happening education,
(14:35):
a lot of movement throughoutthe day so it's extremely busy,
it's extremely taxing, and I wasa very young minded person and
I didn't have a lot ofunderstanding about life and at
the time we didn't have any kids, and so I had a lot of single
(14:57):
parents that worked for me and Ididn't treat them the way they
should have been treated.
They were doing everything theycould to provide for their
family, and all I saw was anumber or a name on a piece of
paper that could achieve themission that day.
And so I remember, day afterday, people would call in and
(15:18):
say, hey, I'm not going to beable to make it to work today,
my child's sick, or we'd be atwork in a daycare or school
would call and say, hey, we needto talk to this person, they
need to come pick up their child.
And I almost had nounderstanding.
I take that back.
I had no understanding and Iwas almost rude to these people
(15:38):
for trying to take care of theirfamily.
Why can't you be at work?
Why can't we do this?
You're always leaving.
You're always having theseproblems.
Fast forward three or four orfive or six years and now I have
two kids and me and my wifeboth work full-time jobs.
(16:00):
Kids and me and my wife bothwork full-time jobs, and I see
that it's it's hard.
It's hard in nowadays time toprovide for your family, to keep
them healthy and keep themwhere they need to be at, and
and dedicate the time that youneed to dedicate to work.
And so I look back and I just Iwish I could go back and beat
myself up and just kind of slapsome sense into me.
(16:21):
So I hope that those peoplethere that I didn't negatively
impact them too much.
I always thought that I wasdoing the right thing, and so I
really think that my life now isabout learning and getting
better.
Every day I'm not there.
I'm continually working onmyself every day.
It's been a marked journey forMichael Bates, and I hope that
(16:45):
people around me can say thesame thing, and I know that I
have faults, and so I work onthose and will continue to work
on those for probably the restof my life.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So you're a human.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I guess I try to be, not be the robot.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, everybody I think all of us, if we look back
over our life, have things thatwe regret as far as leadership
and, to your point, being soyoung in that position was
probably a huge impact, I think,for me as a mom.
I was one of those people thatI didn't understand having kids
until I had them and I would beon an airplane before kids like
(17:22):
these screaming kids.
And now I want to help peopleon the airplane because I have
been the person with thosescreaming kids and it's not easy
.
So time, experience, all ofthose things certainly do change
us and help support leadershipalong the way.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So in your current role you are the Director of
Rehabilitation and ReentryDivision and that sounds really
important.
It's a major part of themission of TDCJ.
Can you tell people just alittle bit about what all does
that mean?
Rehabilitation and reentry?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Sure, I guess I would like to start out with.
I think when you start and youhear the Texas Department of
Criminal Justice, the number onething that stands out to you is
prison.
Oh, that's all we do is prison,right, and I even have to admit
, as being a correctionalofficer and coming up through
the correctional ranks, thatprison and security was what we
(18:22):
knew, that's what we do, weprovide public safety and that's
what Texas Department ofCriminal Justice stands for.
But there's so many things thatthis agency does, that really
kind of work behind the scenes,that do not get that publicity.
And so, yes, the RehabilitationReentry Division.
(18:43):
When this opportunity came about, it was so far in left field
that I was just.
I had an opportunity, I saw itand I knew that I didn't have
very much experience with thislevel of programmatic activity,
with the re-entry, the releasingside, the aspect of it, and so
(19:06):
I jumped at it.
Here I am a whole whopping five, six months into this position
and it's just opened up a levelof, it's drawn the curtains back
and it's shown me so much thatwe do that I really didn't
understand and I'm just nowlearning, and so I still tell
(19:26):
everybody it's like drinkingfrom five fire hydrants.
Right now we do so much inrehabilitation reentry division.
It's amazing Monitoring theparole voted programs, making
sure inmates get to theirprogram on time, making sure
that they can successfullycomplete it and they can suffice
their parole vote so they canbe released and become a
(19:48):
positive citizen in the state ofTexas.
Again, we have the reentryaspect of it to where we have
case managers that are workinghand in hand with our
incarcerated individuals, makingsure that they have the
appropriate documentation youknow, getting birth certificates
, getting social security cards,getting their picture ID cards
(20:09):
so when they get out they canimmediately start seeking jobs.
And then, when you go on top ofthat, you look at Mr Collier's
2030 plan with trying to getpeople employed before they're
released, we are really making apush for our employment of
these guys and ladies beforethey leave, and so we have an
entire section of employmentcoordinators that are really
(20:33):
trying to foster that growthwith employers and our
incarcerated individuals,putting the skilled labor in
front of the appropriateemployers and having that job
lined up as soon as they walkout of the gates.
They can immediately have alegitimate means of income and
(20:55):
can start supporting themselves,because it's difficult out here
.
I mean, it really is at anylevel.
If you're trying to support afamily on a minimum wage, you're
working two, three, four, fivejobs and as much overtime as you
can, and how sustainable isthat right?
So we're doing vocationaltechnologies, welding and
(21:17):
culinary arts, and renewableenergies.
Those are jobs that can providea very good level of income for
these individuals that arereleasing, and so why not
exploit that?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's fantastic and I think, when we look at really
the mission of TDCJ is torehabilitate and help people
with that re-entry into society,so that you come back and are a
functioning member of societyand we reduce crime rates.
And, like you said, it's allabout public safety.
Tell me about the BartlettInnovation Unit.
I have heard some great storiesabout what is going on at the
(21:52):
Bartlett Innovation Unit.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Sure, I hope that I can do it justice right.
I've been on quite a fewfacilities and been assigned to
quite a few facilities andbigger, larger facilities that
usually have some of thebehavioral issues, and so that's
a lot of my experience withprison.
My first day walking onto theBartlett Innovation Unit was, as
(22:14):
my position now, the DeputyDirector of Rehabilitation
Reentry Division and I walk in.
It's a normal, everyday lookingfacility.
When you walk through the frontdoors and you're in the admin
area you're talking to peopleand everybody just has an upbeat
attitude.
And then you walk through thesecured area, the secured sally
(22:35):
port, onto the actual sidewalkand you're met by goats and
chickens and ducks and manyhorses and donkeys and rabbits
and you're seeing staff interactwith incarcerated inmates and
treating them like humans, likethey need to be right, and it's
(22:58):
just inspiring.
There are programs that we'rerunning in tangent with
chaplains and volunteer servicesdivision.
You have Wyndham SchoolDistrict out there.
You have a very heavy presenceof the rehabilitation reentry
Division out there.
There's a large population ofveterans that are on the
(23:20):
Bartlett unit and so you have acolor guard and an honor guard
standing outside presentingcolors in the morning.
It is just, it's an amazingthing to see.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
That's amazing.
Actually, somebody sent me somepictures from one of the
graduations that were.
I mean, it'll bring tears toyour eyes to see the picture and
I'll try to explain.
It was several of the inmatestogether praying before they
were sending somebody out thegate to freedom.
Can you share?
Like, what is that process,that graduation process, look
(23:54):
like and talk about how?
I think one of the other thingsI thought was amazing is the
suits that you send everybodyout in a suit.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I have to give a giant shout out to Warden Lori
Larson she's been doing anamazing job out there at
Bartlett and all of the divisiondirectors and all of the
executive leadership in TDCJthat have supported the Bartlett
Innovation Unit.
I know that if I could startgiving shout outs to everybody,
we'd be here for the next hour,but so you were referring to
(24:23):
what I believe they call thebell ceremony, and so anybody
that's on the Bartlett Unit thatis leaving whether that's
parole discharge or what haveyou they walk up front and they
have a brass bell that's hangingthere right on the inside of
the secured facility, and all ofthe inmate population are
(24:43):
invited to these bell ceremonies.
And so we do.
We release these guys in fullsuits.
They look amazing, they'reenergized, they're ready to go,
they're prepared, and so theycome up there, they engage in
prayer, they engage in a chant.
It's all about an energy and avibe, as I continue to hear, and
(25:08):
so they're just pumping thisperson up, or these people up,
to take that next step into theuncertainty, the unknown right.
Most of them have beenincarcerated for a while, and
that next step is really a placeof nerves.
You know, you don't know whatyou're getting into.
You know you hear all thesehorror stories about oh, it's
(25:29):
expensive inflation tariffs.
You know what am I going to do?
The majority of them have jobslined up and they walk out in
these suits and they're lookinggreat and they get to ring a
bell as a symbol of that closureof one chapter in their life
and into the next.
And it's amazing, it's powerful.
(25:51):
You know, it's a great thing tobe out there to stand amongst
the population as they're doingthis and it's really a moment of
support.
Everybody is there to supportthis individual taking that next
step and they all see that, asthey continue their journey in
incarceration, that that's wherethey're headed.
(26:12):
They're headed to that bellceremony.
They're going to get out andthey're going to be a productive
part of society.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah Well, it's certainly inspiring work and I
can imagine very fulfilling tobe a part of that process in
anybody's life, and I just lovethat those suits are all donated
from people.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Absolutely, and so they have a locker room that's
what it's what's been coined asand when you walk in there it's
like going to men's warehouse.
There's suits everywhere andthey you know, they have to
inventory them all the time, andso I don't envy that job.
But that's a good problem tohave right now is we have suits,
but at the end of the day, wedon't have enough suits, and so
(26:53):
we're always asking for, youknow, whatever.
If anybody has anything thatthey're willing to donate, we're
absolutely willing to accept.
I do find it funny I I in myneighborhood, I had a individual
on our little Facebook page popup and say hey, got some suits
that I outgrew, and does anybodyneed them?
So I sent him a message and waslike hey, I would love to take
(27:16):
these off your hands.
And I gave him a video of oneof these bail ceremonies and of
an individual leaving in a suitand I said this is what you're
supporting.
And I knew that it waspolarizing, right.
I didn't know if somebody wasgoing to be willing to donate it
to a convicted felon, and theyjust absolutely were excited for
(27:37):
the opportunity for that suitto go to a better place, and so,
as soon as I pick it up, theywere like this is great, this is
amazing.
As soon as we have more, we'regoing to donate, we're going to
get with our church and we'regoing to try to find some more.
And so it's great to see peoplesupporting that, because I know
it can be polarizing Do youwant to donate to a felon or not
(27:58):
and so we got to realize thatthese are humans.
They're coming back to society.
Let's make sure that it's agood reintegration.
Let's make sure that they getthe chance that they deserve.
They've done their state signedtime.
Let's give them an opportunityto do a great thing.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
That's amazing.
And is there a women's unitthat is equivalent to Bartlett?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Not necessarily on the innovation side, but at the
O'Daniel unit we have the Striveprogram, where we have our
ladies and they have what theycall the boutique, and so it's
clothing that's businessprofessional, and they do job
interviews on Zoom and they'llbe wearing their business
(28:45):
professional uniforms instead ofall white uniform, and so
getting them ready for releaseand getting them ready for
integration, and so if anybodyhas any ladies clothes that they
would like to donate, weabsolutely have an area for that
and just across the state, just, we release all day long, every
day, and so we always needclothes.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I love that.
I'll get that information fromyou and we'll put it in the show
notes If you're listening andwant to donate to the cause.
I think it's a wonderful thingto support that re-entry.
All right, I wanted to talk alittle bit about mental health
with you.
I know that I have seen, sinceI've been working in this role
with TDCJ, there's been a shiftin the culture and really I feel
(29:28):
like your leadership is makinga concerted effort like talking
to Director Mendoza, who was onthe podcast as well to support
mental health of of theemployees at TDCJ.
What are your thoughts there?
How, how is that going?
What?
What's happening on the mentalhealth front to support
employees?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So I first have to acknowledge the fact that this
job is extremely mentally taxing.
It is mentally, physically,emotionally taxing, and that can
be a difficult hurdle forpeople to as you have new staff
(30:09):
members coming in.
You have to learn thesephysical requirements.
You have to learn theseemotional requirements, these
psychological requirements onhow to deal with things that we
see on a daily basis.
And so I think that we aremaking really good strides and
we are in the right direction.
We have a lot of opportunity infront of us and kind of the
(30:33):
stigma is getting washed awayfrom some of that mental health
aspect.
You know, I would love to saythat I'm great at it and that
I've always been good at dealingwith the stress of this job,
but that's just not the case.
We deal with long hours, youdeal with problems all day long,
whether you know they'reranging from very minute to you
(30:54):
know whether they're rangingfrom very minute to the worst of
the worst emergencies.
I think everybody has to comeup with their own coping
mechanisms, and I really focuson the healthy coping mechanisms
, because a lot of people referback to a chemical dependency or
use of alcohol or these thingsthat are negative to ourselves,
(31:16):
that are kind of justself-destructive.
I really see a good push fromexecutive leadership, ers, from
just Buena Vida, I mean all ofthe things that we have
available Hello Heart, hingeHealth, all of these things that
our staff members have thatthey may not know about, and so
I encourage them to look at thewebsites, or our TDCJ website,
(31:40):
to look at peak performance, toreach out and really look at all
of those resources that areavailable.
We give administrative leave topeople that get a annual
wellness exam with theirphysician, just something simple
like that.
You know, catch something atthe beginning.
Let's address high bloodpressure early on.
(32:02):
Let's address those smallhealth things that are going to
lead to bigger problems down theroad, and so keep ourselves
healthy, stay active.
We work 8, 10, 12 hours, 14hours, 16 hours a day.
You come home and you just wantto crash.
You don't want to talk toanybody, you don't want to, you
don't want to exercise, youdon't want to do all these
(32:24):
things, you don't want toexercise, you don't want to do
all these things, and I quicklyfound myself a victim of that.
I remember being a major at theFerguson unit and it was a
never-ending job.
You would work 10, 12, 14 hoursin the day.
You would get home and yourphone would ring.
It would be people withproblems on night shift.
(32:45):
It would be unit administrationasking questions about things
that were done during the day,and there wasn't time to
exercise, there wasn't time tomeditate and do all these things
, and at some level I think itwas about the time that I was an
(33:05):
assistant warden.
I looked at myself in the mirrorand I didn't like what I saw.
I was what I consideredoverweight.
My blood pressure was terribleand I was eating horribly, and
so I made a conscious decision Igave up my biggest love of my
life, dr Pepper.
I started eating better, Istarted paying attention to what
I was actually putting in mybody, started exercising.
(33:34):
I lost a pretty good amount ofweight and just immediately saw
the benefits of that hard workand my blood pressure dropped
and I was doing better and Ithought I was in a good place.
And so then I went through acouple of different promotions,
made it to senior warden atClemens, and I realized that I
could do better, and so Istarted working more on my
(33:56):
health and so started runningand started doing different
things and trying to get into abetter place in my health and
eventually achieve that, or Isay achieve that I'm still
working on it, but went from aplace where I probably should
have been medicated on bloodpressure to now I check my blood
(34:17):
pressure and it's almost, Iwould say, perfect, but it's
good.
I really try to focus on thehealthy aspect.
And it's hard, it truly is.
I know there are people outthere listening.
They're going to say I'mworking mandatory overtime, I'm
working 14 hour shifts, I'mworking six days a week.
I understand it is hard, it isa very conscious decision and it
(34:43):
is something that takes timeand it's not an immediate
response.
You don't see it immediately,but the benefits are there.
That's long-term.
I encourage people that are inthe correctional field to look
at some of the statistics forthe comorbidities and the health
problems that exist in ourprofession and really take
(35:07):
strides to prevent that, becausewe can.
We can prevent alcoholism, wecan prevent obesity, we can
prevent some of those thingsthat really will increase our
lifespan, because I don't wantto retire and die two days later
, you know, and andunfortunately we see that in our
profession, and so I reallywant to leave this, this career,
(35:30):
whenever I decide to leave andretire in a healthy form, in a
healthy fashion, to where I canenjoy that retirement.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, and I'm wondering if you could just sort
of dig into a little bit more.
How did you do it?
Because I think there are a lotof people out there probably
that are working these longshifts and are exhausted and
don't know how you talked aboutwith your personal journey.
You taught out the Dr Pepper.
Was that like step one?
Speaker 1 (35:56):
That was probably step one, and it was a hard one.
That was a hard one.
I really enjoyed drinking DrPepper.
It was a great taste, great, Iloved it.
But at the end of the day,there's a lot of sugar, there's
a lot of carbs, there's a lot ofcalories and it doesn't help
you any.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Did you replace it with something else?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Water, lots of water, yeah, but you know water can
get boring, and so you kind ofhave to find what really works
for you.
I know you kind of have to findwhat really works for you.
There's a lot of zero sugaradditives out there.
You've got to be careful withthem, with the artificial
sweeteners.
Just really kind of researchingand playing what works best for
you, right?
And so I meal prep every Sunday, now for lunches, and I know
(36:43):
that correctional staff that'sgoing to be one thing is like oh
, I may not get a break.
How do I know that I'll be here?
I understand, but there'sopportunities to bring your
lunches.
You can pack a healthy snack.
Instead of eating a bag ofchips, you can have some carrots
.
I mean there are options outthere that are acceptable, that
(37:05):
aren't terrible.
I mean I'm not saying that weneed to go eat Brussels sprouts
every day, but hey, some airfried Brussels sprouts with a
little bit of olive oil is notbad.
It's not bad.
Some salt and pepper, it'sactually quite good, I would say
so.
Yeah, so every week we meal prepfor lunches and just trying to
focus on what we intake.
(37:25):
Right, Don't get me wrong.
I love some ice cream.
I grew up in Burnham, Texas,home of Blue Bell.
I absolutely love some BlueBell ice cream.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Who doesn't?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
But just in moderation.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yes, absolutely Well, and I love how you said it's
been a journey.
It's not a one and done everwith our health.
It's a lifelong practice andwe're going to certainly have
ups and downs and all kinds oftwists and turns along the way.
So good, amazing that you'vebeen able to do that, and really
(37:57):
it is wonderful to see a leaderlike you in the position you're
in, because you can have thatinfluence and hopefully help
support other people that maywant to make those changes in
their life.
Thank you for mentioning as wellthe programs that we have
available through the healthplan.
I'm really proud of ERS forproviding benefits like this,
especially virtual benefits likethe Learn to Live Mental Health
Program or Hello, heart HingeHealth.
These are things that you canaccess at any time of day from
(38:19):
anywhere in the state of Texas.
So and we keep in mind youremployees when we are making
those decisions that because Ithink there are a lot of folks
out there in rural areas or thework shift work that might not
have access, and so we love thaty'all are getting that
information out to the employees, right?
I?
I always like to close out ourpodcast with the same question
(38:43):
for every guest, and we'vetalked about our program is
Buena Vida, which means goodlife, and I'm curious if you
could share with our listenerswhat is a good life for you.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
A good life.
I would say that we're going tosay something with a healthy
work-life balance and that one'shard.
That one took me a long timeand I am still working on that
to this day.
You probably could ask myfamily and I could do better,
(39:15):
but I've come a long ways fromwhere I was working six days a
week, 14 hours a day, and so wehave to get our job done.
Our agency has a mission soimportant that we have to make
sure that it gets done and sothat can affect work-life
balance.
(39:35):
We know that there's going tobe emergencies where we don't
get the opportunity to go homethat afternoon or on time or
something of that nature.
But we really have to focus onthat work-life balance and be
present when we have theopportunity to be present with
our families or with yourhobbies or with yourself or
(39:57):
whatever that is for you.
And so I really have focused onwhen I'm at home.
I'm at home and doingeverything I can to support my
kids and be there for theirfunctions and be there for my
wife and whatever we can thereand enjoy hobbies, the hunting,
the fishing, the being away fromwork, giving everything that
(40:22):
you have to do better and tomake sure that we're in a better
place when we leave this agencyin 10, 20, 30 years than it is
right now.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yes, absolutely Well, michael, it's been wonderful to
talk to you.
I have sort of gotten to knowyou through various meetings and
events at TDCJ and I've alwaysjust heard such great things
about you as a leader and aperson.
So I really appreciate youcoming in and taking some time
out to talk to all of ourlisteners and share some of your
(40:55):
great experience andinformation about what amazing
work y'all are doing at TDCJ.
Absolutely, I again Iappreciate the invitation.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
This was this was an amazing part.
It just, you know, I'm I'malways at all in my career
appreciate the invitation.
This was this was an amazingpart.
It just you know, I'm I'malways at all in my career of
the opportunities that I get,and this is one of them.
I would have never thought thatto me, I'm, I'm just Michael
Bates, and that's the best thatI can be.
I continue to to try to dobetter every day, but the things
that that you and this and ERSis doing, lacey, are amazing and
(41:23):
we appreciate that to no end,and so thank you very much for
what you do every day and lookforward to continuing working
with you Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
All right, that's a wrap on this episode of the
Buena Vida podcast.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
I want to thank Michael Batesfor sharing not only his
professional insights but alsohis heart.
His honesty about leadership,growth and personal
transformation certainly left meinspired and I hope it did the
same for you.
If you'd like to support someof the amazing work that was
(41:58):
mentioned in today's episode,like donating clothing or
learning more about the BellCeremonies, I have included
links in the show notes.
Thank you so much again forlistening.
If you enjoyed this episode,please be sure to follow the
Buena Vida podcast wherever youlisten to podcasts and share it
with someone that might use alittle inspiration today.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep growing and keep
(42:22):
building your own version of theBuena Vida.
Have a great day and take careeveryone.
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