April 8, 2021 • 25 mins
In Episode 12 of The Business 360 Podcast, we speak with Mike Manoske, an International Coaching Federation certified career coach. In part one of this episode, we discuss the numerous services and resources Mike provides to thousands of job candidates that have helped them prepare for interviews, land jobs, and negotiate salaries.
We will cover:
- Hire Club - A Career Success Community
- The Job Search Action Group
- The Job Search Manifesto
- Job Candidate Mental Health
- Average # Of Years At A Company
- Clubhouse for Job Advice
For more information, visit www.ThinkBusiness360.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rushab Kamdar (00:03):
Welcome to the Business 360 Podcast where we
will take a 360 degree view ofall things business in under 30
minutes.
I'm Rushab Kamdar, a serialentrepreneur, helping
businesses, startups, workingprofessionals, and business
school students.
I'm just living the dream.
(00:23):
What's going on, BusinessHeroes?
Welcome to episode 12.
This is going to be a two partepisode.
We'll be dropping part one thisweek and part two next week.
What I like about this episodeis that we're going to talk to
someone who can help those ofyou that are job seekers today
(00:46):
in 2021.
It's why I call this episode,The Modern Job Market.
Now whether you are a job seekeror an entrepreneur or an
executive at a company, you needto listen to this episode
because there's so much tounpack on what's happening
today.
(01:07):
So no matter what side of thedesk you're sitting, there's
quite a bit of information thatcan help you when you're either
hiring a candidate or if you arethe job candidate.
So let's get to it.
On today's podcast, we arewelcoming Mike Manoske.
Mike is an InternationalCoaching Federation certified
coach, but that title doesn't doMike any justice on his
(01:30):
accomplishments.
Now, here are some quick factsabout Mike.
Mike has over 10 years ofcoaching experience, two decades
as a recruiting leader.
He's a startup founder in bothhealthcare and technology.
Mike's also the author of anupcoming book called The Job
Search Manifesto.
And it's based on a successfulprogram that he co-leads and
that he helped develop at theWharton and EMBA program in San
(01:53):
Francisco.
Finally, Mike's also thedirector of coaching at
HigherClub, which is a jobsearch and career success
community of almost 34,000members.
And what I like about Mike isthat he brings entrepreneurial
and industry insights to helpprepare people and succeed in
the job world.
So Mike it's a pleasure to haveyou on the Business 360 Podcast.
Mike Manoske (02:14):
Oh, Rushab great to be here.
I love the work you're doing andthe, uh, there's so much of a
need for you to get the ideasand concepts that you've been
sharing out.
So big fan already, man.
Rushab Kamdar (02:25):
Thanks a lot, Mike.
I appreciate it and for those ofyou that don't know, uh, Mike
and I met on Clubhouse, uh,which is a, uh, new social media
audio only app where you canessentially create topics and
be, um, a moderator and speak onit.
And for those of you that attendthose rooms, you can be a
participant and engage in thoseconversations or just an
audience member and listen.
(02:46):
Um, and how's how's Clubhousebeen treating you, Mike?
Mike Manoske (02:49):
You know, Clubhouse has been fascinating.
Um, I was, and I think we talkedabout this offline.
I was reluctant to go inClubhouse, uh, partly because
I'm busy and the other is geeanother social media platform
how exciting.
Um, I got on there, you know,like I said, I was, I
reluctantly reluctantly showedup, but then I started talking
(03:11):
to people like you and, youknow, the, these really
intelligent, interesting peopledoing frankly important things.
Um, and that really resonates tome.
Give me a community of peoplethat are like that, and I'm
going to fully show up.
So it's been a phenomenalexperience.
We've actually seen growth insome of the courses I teach some
(03:32):
of the public courses.
Um, lot of interest in the book.
And frankly, just getting theideas that, that are important,
that I feel are important for mypractice out there.
Super rewarding.
Rushab Kamdar (03:43):
You have a, you do a weekly room, right?
Mike Manoske (03:46):
We're doing several a week right now.
Um, you know, we're involvingmore of our.
HireClub is a, is a community ofover 34,000 and thank you for
the, thank you for the plug onthat.
We also offer coaching and so asdirector of coaching, I have
about 50 coaches that are partof that community, serving the
other community.
We've been involving them inClubhouse.
(04:08):
So we've had dialogues inClubhouse on everything from
imposter syndrome to mentalhealth issues.
We have a, we have one of ourcoaches who's not only a
certified coach, he's also apsychologist and has done a lot
of work in this area.
So we're, we're trying to toucha lot of bases around the idea
of how do you, how do you getthrough COVID?
How do you get through thispandemic time, but how do you
(04:30):
come out better, faster,stronger, and really sustain and
grow your career from there?
That's really been our missionon Clubhouse and so far great
experience.
Rushab Kamdar (04:39):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's funny, Igot on Clubhouse in December and
there was, I think only a couplehundred thousand.
I think it was like the numberof 600,000 people on the app.
And, um, you know, I think todaythere's probably like 15 million
or something if not more.
Mike Manoske (04:52):
15 to 20.
That's what I'm hearing
Rushab Kamdar (04:53):
Yeah, 15 to 20, something like that.
And I had a daily room withsomeone else.
We were co-leading that room.
We did it every day for twomonths straight.
It was on entrepreneurship.
Every day, Monday to Friday,sometimes Saturdays.
And then it just, you know, asmore and more people got on the
app, it was weird.
There's more people on the app,but it felt like a ghost town.
Mike Manoske (05:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rushab Kamdar (05:14):
And then I think it's just because everyone was
creating their own topics and,or it became topic saturated and
the room started getting smallerand we don't mind the intimate
rooms, uh, where, you know,there's maybe 8, 10, 12 people,
and then you have some nicediscussions, but because it's
such a smaller room.
But I felt, you know, I foundmyself kind of, I found
Clubhouse kind of lost its charma little bit.
I'm not saying that it's I thinkit's a great thing.
(05:35):
Cause I met you.
I've met probably 10 to 15people off Clubhouse that have
made a tremendous impact in mylife, including yourself in the
last, uh, three months.
And, and I've been on people'sshows, I've networked with
people, I've joined mastermindswith them, you know, I've
created communities and, andit's helping my own business.
So I think it has so much greatpotential, but I think I just
(05:56):
needed a break.
So I've been off it really forlike the last two weeks.
I've done maybe two rooms, um,each week at the end of the
week, you know, and then I'vejust kind of.
And same with the other person Iwas co-leading.
He also kind of was like.
And we both built a prettydecent following, you know?
Um, and then we still were justlike, alright, it's not really
about the followers.
It's really about not wanting tobe burnt out.
Mike Manoske (06:16):
And I think, I think it's a great point.
I'm I'm looking at this goingokay.
I'm I'm at capacity.
I couldn't add any more time ifI, if I even wanted to, um.
Our, our objective is to getother voices in there.
And so that, you know, thereare, there are sessions where
we're just kind of waving, youknow, it's like, oh, sure.
You know, we're adding pointsin, but we're really trying to
(06:38):
get, get a broader range ofvoices.
First of all, just for burnout,you know, our own burnout.
Rushab Kamdar (06:44):
Yeah.
Absolutely agree.
Mike Manoske (06:46):
Understand completely.
Rushab Kamdar (06:48):
Yeah, no, thank you for that, Mike.
And so I wanted to bringClubhouse up because you do so
much in the coaching space.
Um, and you know, like I'vesaid, you're career and
leadership coach.
So maybe you can tell theaudience what exactly is your
business and you know, who arethe customers that you serve and
you know, really how you helpall these, these people.
Mike Manoske (07:09):
So I work with anybody who recognizes that on
the, on their career, they needto make a change.
And sometimes, and oftentimesthat changes.
I need to change the job that Ihave.
So as a recruiting leader for 20years still feels funny to say
it, by the way, that was thatlong.
(07:29):
But I understand the logisticalpart of job search, you know,
from, okay, how do I leave?
How do I update my LinkedIn?
How do I get, how do I talkabout myself, interview,
negotiate, update my resume.
Uh, again, I can't stressLinkedIn enough.
That's a huge, such a huge partof this.
Um, I have expertise in thatarea.
(07:51):
I provide the logistics side ofit.
Oftentimes what comes up is asecond layer, deeper questions,
things around.
Wow.
You know, I, I, my, my, my selfevaluation isn't good.
You know, I've got some impostersyndrome.
Um, I'm wrestling with quitefrankly, my job was brutal and I
maybe was struggling with somePTSD.
(08:11):
How do I deal with that?
So there's the top levellogistics, the deeper questions.
That gets you through thatprocess.
But the next phase of that is,is the second half of my
practice, which is how do I dowell in the new role?
How do I go kick butt and takenames and, and how do I, how do
I use that next opportunity tobounce even higher into the
(08:33):
opportunity after it?
So I describe my practice as jobtransition and career success.
I'm an executive coach.
But career success really ismaking sure that when you land
in a new opportunity or you'rein an opportunity, you get as
much out of it as possible.
And looking forward, you know.
(08:53):
Coaches and coaching is allaround forward-looking, you
know.
We're, we're, we're futurebased.
Um, we're going to get youthrough this, but the goal is to
create skills that help you inthe future, just do better and
better.
We're scaling somebody.
Rushab Kamdar (09:09):
That was beautifully said that you're
scaling somebody.
Uh, you know, and there'ssomething you said in your
answer that I think it's reallyimportant to highlight.
You said some people may besuffering from PTSD.
And I think when we hear PTSD, alot of times, we think it's you
know, someone that was in thearmed services, they were, you
know, uh, coming back fromoverseas and they've, they've
suffered something that that'straumatic, but, you know, I've
(09:33):
seen this with entrepreneurswho've had, you know, very, very
difficult failures and, youknow, we're had the backs of the
wall and may file bankruptcy ifnot, they did.
And, and so what have you seenwith the job search side, the
candidates that, how have theymay potentially suffered PTSD?
Mike Manoske (09:49):
So they've been in environments.
You know, you describedentrepreneurs who, who got up to
the wall, you know, had somereally tough decisions.
Uh, it was starting to, it wasnegatively impacting their
personal life.
You have the same thing indysfunctional organizations,
toxic workplaces, and you know,one, probably the best way to
describe it is someone whoactually worked for me.
(10:10):
I hired her as a recruiter.
Um, she came in from anorganization famous for a
belligerent leader.
You know, the guy who wouldstand in the hallway and start,
you know, shouting F bombs atpeople.
Um, she came into my company,really talented, we're in a
meeting one day and I saidsomething and she went white and
(10:35):
I held her back from me.
I said, well, what happened?
She goes, I thought you wereyelling at me.
And I I wasn't even close.
And I said, wow, let's, let's,you know, that's not my style.
This is how I work.
She became incredibly effective,but she later on said she
realized her first two weeks atour place, she was scared
(10:55):
because she was afraid somebodywas going to yell at her.
And, or, or worse.
And if you bring that kind ofbaggage, you know, from a
previous role or from a previousexperience, uh, from a previous
failure, in the case of anentrepreneur, um, you know, that
stuff that, that lingers, that'slike a rock on your back,
Rushab Kamdar (11:16):
Yeah.
You know, we're, we're in adecade of consciousness now,
right?
We're being more self-aware andmental health is so important.
And I wanted to highlight thatbecause of men's mental health
awareness and for, you know,maybe any, any, uh, executive,
uh, entrepreneur, a boss, leaderout there that maybe listening
to this podcast, you know, to,to have, I'm a big believer in
(11:38):
empathy.
So to have that outlook and seethat when someone is coming in,
you know, how you treat youremployees and creating the
culture around it so that, youknow, no one should go to a job
and have a PTSD diagnosisleaving that job so.
Mike Manoske (11:51):
Exactly.
And I think being aware of it,you, you raised a great point,
Rushab.
Being aware of it is, you know,50% of it.
Um, that, that negative, I mean,we've seen it in personal lives,
you know, negative, you know,poor relationships.
It's the same thing in yourcareer.
And you know, how do you, how doyou shed the baggage?
(12:13):
How do you get the rock off yourback is a key part of my
coaching.
Because how do you, you can't goforward with that rock on your
back.
It's just gonna, it's just goingto continue to slow you down.
Rushab Kamdar (12:24):
Something else that you do I mentioned before
you teach at the WhartonExecutive MBA Program.
Now, Wharton is a great name.
Um, and I actually did got myMBA from an executive MBA
program.
So, um, and I had tremendousvalue from that, that style of
teaching.
Um, and you guys developed aprogram called The Job Search
Action Group.
Mike Manoske (12:43):
Right.
Rushab Kamdar (12:44):
Uh, so I'm just interested in hearing what that
exactly is specifically.
Mike Manoske (12:47):
Sure.
The first thing I'm going to aslight correction.
I don't teach at Wharton.
Teach, teach is a really loadedword.
Um, we built a program and theidea of the program was that
about 30% of the students thatwent through the Wharton
Executive MBA program got in theprogram, very successful career
(13:07):
as much like you, um, got inthere and went, oh, wait a
minute, something here lit meup.
I'm an engineer and marketinglit me up or, you know, I'm in
marketing and finance lit me up.
I want to go do somethingdifferent.
And, um, you know, the, theperson who runs career
advancement at San Francisco,uh, you know, a good friend of
(13:27):
mine, Steve Hernandez really sawthis.
Steve is also a recruiter.
He had 10 years of executiverecruiting.
Um, and what we recognized wasyou, they would get into the
program.
They would, they would want tomake a change and they were,
they, they locked up.
And they locked up because theydidn't know the logistics of
this because everything in theircareer had been smooth sailing.
(13:50):
Now, a big transition like this.
New skills needed to be put inplace.
So we built the Job SearchAction Group around two
concepts.
One is let's show you thelogistics.
Let's get you really good atthese logistics and turn this
into a skill set development.
And the second part of it islet's do it as a group.
Um, doing this now almost sevenyears.
(14:13):
And we have WhatsApp groups thathave, that have been active for
seven years.
Um, and we go through thelogistics of it.
Being recruiters, we're going toexplain the logistics.
Our goal is this becomes a skillset you can use the rest of your
career and we've we, we havetons and tons of success stories
(14:35):
around, around making this work.
Uh, it has been incrediblyrewarding watching people
continue,continue the upsurge intheir career, continue this
trampoline effect to, to, tomore and more responsibility.
But the better part is watchingthem not be afraid, not be
uncomfortable with the idea of,okay, it's time for me to make a
change.
(14:55):
Um, and to know that I have acommunity behind me, it's going
to back me when I do that.
Rushab Kamdar (15:01):
So, is it a, do you do, um, annual workshops,
uh, or virtually, or how has,how has the program actually
introduced
Mike Manoske (15:08):
It's a 14 week program, um, with seven
sessions.
Each session about an hour and ahalf.
And we we've identified, youknow, the core pieces of a job
search.
Everything from who do youtarget?
How do you describe yourself?
How do you create a brandstatement?
How do you create an effectiveLinkedIn profile?
Probably the biggest part of itis how do you have, and build
(15:30):
effective businessrelationships?
Not networking, effectiverelationships.
We were really that's that'sfoundational, but you really
can't go out and talk to peopleuntil you have a comfortable way
to describe yourself through abrand statement.
Everybody looks at your LinkedInprofile.
Let's get that updated.
Get out there, talking,understanding how people work,
(15:51):
understanding what the needs oftheir organizations are,
understanding their journey.
Notice this isn't aboutyourself.
This is really about the outsidethe outside world.
Um, then we can get youcomfortable with resume, with
interviewing and we even donegotiation.
You know, I've done 7 or 800just as a recruiter alone and
then probably a good 3 or 400 asa coach.
(16:13):
So we we've got some reallyinteresting approaches that are
not typical on how to do thesevarious, these various
categories of your job search.
Rushab Kamdar (16:25):
So we, we've identified and highlighted, you
know, your integral role of, ofthe various programs or your
coaching services on helping thejob candidate.
And you've basically taken allthat knowledge and experience,
and you created a book that'scoming out this year called The
Job Search Manifesto.
Um, so why, there's so manybooks out there, why did you
(16:48):
feel there's a need to writethis specific one and you know,
how does it differentiate, helpthose that are looking for jobs
or trying to move up in their,in their, um, specific industry
or company?
Mike Manoske (16:59):
You know, it's, Rushab, the question you just
asked, and the way you asked itis really helpful because we
didn't set out to write a book.
You know, we set out to build aprogram.
And about four years, five yearsinto the program, Wharton came
to us and said, this is, thisis, this needs to be a book and
so off we went.
What we realized was there's alot of books on this, but
(17:20):
they're, they're either reallythey're, they're not very deep,
they're broad, but not deep, um,or they're very focused on a
couple things.
Here, just do these couplethings.
What concerned us was they werealso not written by people
who've been in the trenches.
You know, I've hired a thousandpeople as a recruiting leader,
you know, Steve, you know,hundreds and hundreds on top of
that.
(17:40):
And what we realized was no onereally talked about the
logistics of this from, fromthe, uh, from people who were in
the trenches with us.
And that was, we saw, we sawbooks that were, you know, in
some cases really fluffy andthey weren't helping.
So with some reluctance, when westarted, we thought, okay, we're
going to write this book.
Um, and we have grown so much inthe process of writing the book.
(18:06):
You know, the pause you heard mesay was, I, I was thinking about
it was going to be so easy.
No, it wasn't easy.
It it was a really interestinggrowth process for both of us,
but what we realized was we'vebeen giving, and I think I
haven't sent you a kind of anearly version of the book.
Um, we actually been giving thatout to students for the last two
years.
(18:27):
And we've noticed a change.
Uh, I provide, you know, I doexternal, uh, I do an
abbreviated version of this atHireClub and I be giving out the
books.
What I'm finding is having astructure, having a process, not
that I want people to followlike this, this, this, this, and
this, you know, step-by-step butyou have a roadmap, we're seeing
(18:49):
an improvement in that alone.
So there, we just didn't seesomebody that had really
developed a good roadmap forthis.
And if you're trying to teachthis as a skill set, roadmap's
important.
So Google the book.
Rushab Kamdar (19:02):
I completely agree.
You know, I, I.
Frameworks, methodologies,processes.
The reason why these are sointegral because I have my own,
right?
I, I teach at business schoolsacross the country, um, and my
speaking workshops and, um, I'mteaching them how to think
business, the students, I'mthinking of teaching them how to
talk business.
(19:22):
And I, and I have, I haveframeworks, I have a blueprint.
I have acronyms on how tonetwork and, and you know, or
how to talk the language ofbusiness when you're networking.
And what I've recognized that alot of people have great,
valuable advice, but if theydon't put a methodology behind
it or a some type of system orframework, it's very hard for,
(19:44):
for the audience or anybody thatyou're teaching this to, to
really grasp it and refer to it.
Cause our brain thinks it bestwhen it's organized.
Mike Manoske (19:53):
Yeah, exactly.
And you know, what we found werethere were people and you've
see, I know you and I havetalked about this and you've
seen this people who will stayin unrewarding, uncomfortable if
not lousy jobs, because they'retoo afraid to leave.
That the fear of transition is,is worse in their head than
(20:14):
actually staying put.
And what we're saying is here'sa framework, let, let's get some
of the fear out of the way, andit's a proven framework.
So just like your work.
Rushab Kamdar (20:24):
Exactly and the key word it's a proven
framework.
Mike Manoske (20:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Rushab Kamdar (20:27):
Yeah.
And that's what you need, right?
So, um, well, you know, youmentioned that you gave me an
early version of your book and Igot to peruse that book.
Um, and what I, what struck outto me was this specific
statement you said, uh, by thetime the average job candidates
at 25 years old, um, who startswork, when they reach 65, they
(20:49):
will have had changed their jobevery 4.2 years.
So essentially the averageworking professional would
change jobs 10 times in theircareer.
Um, and I, I recently heard,it's unverified, but I'm just,
it's kind of hearsay, but Irecently heard that even with
millennials it's even quicker,it's like every 1.8 years or
something like that.
Mike Manoske (21:08):
That's definitely correct.
Rushab Kamdar (21:10):
Yeah.
So, uh, what does that tell youwith what's happening in this
dynamic of Corporate America andchanging of jobs every four
years?
Mike Manoske (21:21):
So the 4.2 year number you quoted, came from the
Bureau of Labor Statistics.
And it's you know, it's anationalized number.
Um, the number is shorter, youknow, the 1.8 years is actually
about right.
You know, we're and is, isbecoming more and more the norm.
Um, it's, it's really sayingthat there isn't, I hate to say
(21:45):
loyalty is dead, but what Iwould say is interest is higher.
The desire to go do new thingsis bigger.
So it isn't about loyalty.
It's about growth and aboutinterest.
And I think that's, that's thenew norm.
So, you know, organizations haveto be very prepared and I think
smart ones are doing that.
(22:08):
Around the idea of, um, how doI, how do I keep the people that
are critical in ourorganization?
How do I give them new growthopportunities?
Um, if organizations don't dothat, if I'm a, if I'm an
entrepreneur building a company,I've got to recognize that very
likely the people I bring infirst, I've got to make sure
they have channels and growthpaths.
(22:28):
If I don't do that, I'm going tolose key people at, you know, if
I'm a, if I'm an, in an earlystage startup that I founded, if
I'm an entrepreneur and I losethose key people, shame on me
because I need to make sure thatthey have growth.
Um, that's I, to me, that's oneof the key takeaways.
And I think particularly foryour audience.
Rushab Kamdar (22:49):
Well, you know, there's when I think about when
you said, you said the wordloyalty, you know, gone are the
days of, you know, having a 30year career in a company.
And there was this stigma Iremember when I was coming out
of college and even when I didmy MBA where it's like, you
don't want to show that you jumparound too much on your resume.
(23:09):
But I feel that with the shortenyears, that is pretty much now
the, the, the consistent resume.
It's a candidate that's beensomewhere every two years.
So have companies beenconditioned to this and now it's
not necessarily they'reexpecting loyalty, but maybe
they're looking at jobcandidates in a different way?
Mike Manoske (23:28):
They are absolutely.
Um, it's, it's not a stigma anylonger.
In fact, in fact, if you've beensomewhere three or four years,
there's almost a question.
You know, why, why, why didn'tyou grow?
Um, I don't want to create, Idon't want to create anybody
hearing this to think, Oh mygosh, I've been there three
years.
I'm I'm now failing.
No, it's not the case, but youknow, you, because businesses
(23:53):
now understand.
Smart businesses understand thatpeople will, people will move on
to things.
And the really smart businessesplan that growth for the people
so that they move on within theorganization.
That's to me, the key.
I've seen people and I've workedwith people and, and, you know,
people as well that have stayedwithin an organization for maybe
(24:14):
a decade but have held fivedifferent roles.
I'm fine with that.
You know, as a recruiter, I'mgreat with that because what
it's telling me is this is aperson that really wants to
contribute, wants to do a lot ofgood things, wants to grow.
And this organization was smartenough to be able to provide
that.
Rushab Kamdar (24:35):
Join us next week for part two of our interview
with Mike Manoske.
Thank you for joining us on theBusiness 360 Podcast to learn
more about our guests.
Go to ThinkBusiness360.com.
In life, I follow two thingsthat keep me grounded.
Number one, if you only listento someone's successes and not
their failures, you've onlyheard half the story and number
(24:58):
two, compete with yourself andhelp everyone else.
You stay classy Business Heroes.
Welcome to the Business 360 Podcast where we
will take a 360 degree view ofall things business in under 30
minutes.
I'm Rushab Kamdar, a serialentrepreneur, helping
businesses, startups, workingprofessionals, and business
school students.
I'm just living the dream.
(00:23):
What's going on, BusinessHeroes?
Welcome to episode 12.
This is going to be a two partepisode.
We'll be dropping part one thisweek and part two next week.
What I like about this episodeis that we're going to talk to
someone who can help those ofyou that are job seekers today
(00:46):
in 2021.
It's why I call this episode,The Modern Job Market.
Now whether you are a job seekeror an entrepreneur or an
executive at a company, you needto listen to this episode
because there's so much tounpack on what's happening
today.
(01:07):
So no matter what side of thedesk you're sitting, there's
quite a bit of information thatcan help you when you're either
hiring a candidate or if you arethe job candidate.
So let's get to it.
On today's podcast, we arewelcoming Mike Manoske.
Mike is an InternationalCoaching Federation certified
coach, but that title doesn't doMike any justice on his
(01:30):
accomplishments.
Now, here are some quick factsabout Mike.
Mike has over 10 years ofcoaching experience, two decades
as a recruiting leader.
He's a startup founder in bothhealthcare and technology.
Mike's also the author of anupcoming book called The Job
Search Manifesto.
And it's based on a successfulprogram that he co-leads and
that he helped develop at theWharton and EMBA program in San
(01:53):
Francisco.
Finally, Mike's also thedirector of coaching at
HigherClub, which is a jobsearch and career success
community of almost 34,000members.
And what I like about Mike isthat he brings entrepreneurial
and industry insights to helpprepare people and succeed in
the job world.
So Mike it's a pleasure to haveyou on the Business 360 Podcast.
Mike Manoske (02:14):
Oh, Rushab great to be here.
I love the work you're doing andthe, uh, there's so much of a
need for you to get the ideasand concepts that you've been
sharing out.
So big fan already, man.
Rushab Kamdar (02:25):
Thanks a lot, Mike.
I appreciate it and for those ofyou that don't know, uh, Mike
and I met on Clubhouse, uh,which is a, uh, new social media
audio only app where you canessentially create topics and
be, um, a moderator and speak onit.
And for those of you that attendthose rooms, you can be a
participant and engage in thoseconversations or just an
audience member and listen.
(02:46):
Um, and how's how's Clubhousebeen treating you, Mike?
Mike Manoske (02:49):
You know, Clubhouse has been fascinating.
Um, I was, and I think we talkedabout this offline.
I was reluctant to go inClubhouse, uh, partly because
I'm busy and the other is geeanother social media platform
how exciting.
Um, I got on there, you know,like I said, I was, I
reluctantly reluctantly showedup, but then I started talking
(03:11):
to people like you and, youknow, the, these really
intelligent, interesting peopledoing frankly important things.
Um, and that really resonates tome.
Give me a community of peoplethat are like that, and I'm
going to fully show up.
So it's been a phenomenalexperience.
We've actually seen growth insome of the courses I teach some
(03:32):
of the public courses.
Um, lot of interest in the book.
And frankly, just getting theideas that, that are important,
that I feel are important for mypractice out there.
Super rewarding.
Rushab Kamdar (03:43):
You have a, you do a weekly room, right?
Mike Manoske (03:46):
We're doing several a week right now.
Um, you know, we're involvingmore of our.
HireClub is a, is a community ofover 34,000 and thank you for
the, thank you for the plug onthat.
We also offer coaching and so asdirector of coaching, I have
about 50 coaches that are partof that community, serving the
other community.
We've been involving them inClubhouse.
(04:08):
So we've had dialogues inClubhouse on everything from
imposter syndrome to mentalhealth issues.
We have a, we have one of ourcoaches who's not only a
certified coach, he's also apsychologist and has done a lot
of work in this area.
So we're, we're trying to toucha lot of bases around the idea
of how do you, how do you getthrough COVID?
How do you get through thispandemic time, but how do you
(04:30):
come out better, faster,stronger, and really sustain and
grow your career from there?
That's really been our missionon Clubhouse and so far great
experience.
Rushab Kamdar (04:39):
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's funny, Igot on Clubhouse in December and
there was, I think only a couplehundred thousand.
I think it was like the numberof 600,000 people on the app.
And, um, you know, I think todaythere's probably like 15 million
or something if not more.
Mike Manoske (04:52):
15 to 20.
That's what I'm hearing
Rushab Kamdar (04:53):
Yeah, 15 to 20, something like that.
And I had a daily room withsomeone else.
We were co-leading that room.
We did it every day for twomonths straight.
It was on entrepreneurship.
Every day, Monday to Friday,sometimes Saturdays.
And then it just, you know, asmore and more people got on the
app, it was weird.
There's more people on the app,but it felt like a ghost town.
Mike Manoske (05:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rushab Kamdar (05:14):
And then I think it's just because everyone was
creating their own topics and,or it became topic saturated and
the room started getting smallerand we don't mind the intimate
rooms, uh, where, you know,there's maybe 8, 10, 12 people,
and then you have some nicediscussions, but because it's
such a smaller room.
But I felt, you know, I foundmyself kind of, I found
Clubhouse kind of lost its charma little bit.
I'm not saying that it's I thinkit's a great thing.
(05:35):
Cause I met you.
I've met probably 10 to 15people off Clubhouse that have
made a tremendous impact in mylife, including yourself in the
last, uh, three months.
And, and I've been on people'sshows, I've networked with
people, I've joined mastermindswith them, you know, I've
created communities and, andit's helping my own business.
So I think it has so much greatpotential, but I think I just
(05:56):
needed a break.
So I've been off it really forlike the last two weeks.
I've done maybe two rooms, um,each week at the end of the
week, you know, and then I'vejust kind of.
And same with the other person Iwas co-leading.
He also kind of was like.
And we both built a prettydecent following, you know?
Um, and then we still were justlike, alright, it's not really
about the followers.
It's really about not wanting tobe burnt out.
Mike Manoske (06:16):
And I think, I think it's a great point.
I'm I'm looking at this goingokay.
I'm I'm at capacity.
I couldn't add any more time ifI, if I even wanted to, um.
Our, our objective is to getother voices in there.
And so that, you know, thereare, there are sessions where
we're just kind of waving, youknow, it's like, oh, sure.
You know, we're adding pointsin, but we're really trying to
(06:38):
get, get a broader range ofvoices.
First of all, just for burnout,you know, our own burnout.
Rushab Kamdar (06:44):
Yeah.
Absolutely agree.
Mike Manoske (06:46):
Understand completely.
Rushab Kamdar (06:48):
Yeah, no, thank you for that, Mike.
And so I wanted to bringClubhouse up because you do so
much in the coaching space.
Um, and you know, like I'vesaid, you're career and
leadership coach.
So maybe you can tell theaudience what exactly is your
business and you know, who arethe customers that you serve and
you know, really how you helpall these, these people.
Mike Manoske (07:09):
So I work with anybody who recognizes that on
the, on their career, they needto make a change.
And sometimes, and oftentimesthat changes.
I need to change the job that Ihave.
So as a recruiting leader for 20years still feels funny to say
it, by the way, that was thatlong.
(07:29):
But I understand the logisticalpart of job search, you know,
from, okay, how do I leave?
How do I update my LinkedIn?
How do I get, how do I talkabout myself, interview,
negotiate, update my resume.
Uh, again, I can't stressLinkedIn enough.
That's a huge, such a huge partof this.
Um, I have expertise in thatarea.
(07:51):
I provide the logistics side ofit.
Oftentimes what comes up is asecond layer, deeper questions,
things around.
Wow.
You know, I, I, my, my, my selfevaluation isn't good.
You know, I've got some impostersyndrome.
Um, I'm wrestling with quitefrankly, my job was brutal and I
maybe was struggling with somePTSD.
(08:11):
How do I deal with that?
So there's the top levellogistics, the deeper questions.
That gets you through thatprocess.
But the next phase of that is,is the second half of my
practice, which is how do I dowell in the new role?
How do I go kick butt and takenames and, and how do I, how do
I use that next opportunity tobounce even higher into the
(08:33):
opportunity after it?
So I describe my practice as jobtransition and career success.
I'm an executive coach.
But career success really ismaking sure that when you land
in a new opportunity or you'rein an opportunity, you get as
much out of it as possible.
And looking forward, you know.
(08:53):
Coaches and coaching is allaround forward-looking, you
know.
We're, we're, we're futurebased.
Um, we're going to get youthrough this, but the goal is to
create skills that help you inthe future, just do better and
better.
We're scaling somebody.
Rushab Kamdar (09:09):
That was beautifully said that you're
scaling somebody.
Uh, you know, and there'ssomething you said in your
answer that I think it's reallyimportant to highlight.
You said some people may besuffering from PTSD.
And I think when we hear PTSD, alot of times, we think it's you
know, someone that was in thearmed services, they were, you
know, uh, coming back fromoverseas and they've, they've
suffered something that that'straumatic, but, you know, I've
(09:33):
seen this with entrepreneurswho've had, you know, very, very
difficult failures and, youknow, we're had the backs of the
wall and may file bankruptcy ifnot, they did.
And, and so what have you seenwith the job search side, the
candidates that, how have theymay potentially suffered PTSD?
Mike Manoske (09:49):
So they've been in environments.
You know, you describedentrepreneurs who, who got up to
the wall, you know, had somereally tough decisions.
Uh, it was starting to, it wasnegatively impacting their
personal life.
You have the same thing indysfunctional organizations,
toxic workplaces, and you know,one, probably the best way to
describe it is someone whoactually worked for me.
(10:10):
I hired her as a recruiter.
Um, she came in from anorganization famous for a
belligerent leader.
You know, the guy who wouldstand in the hallway and start,
you know, shouting F bombs atpeople.
Um, she came into my company,really talented, we're in a
meeting one day and I saidsomething and she went white and
(10:35):
I held her back from me.
I said, well, what happened?
She goes, I thought you wereyelling at me.
And I I wasn't even close.
And I said, wow, let's, let's,you know, that's not my style.
This is how I work.
She became incredibly effective,but she later on said she
realized her first two weeks atour place, she was scared
(10:55):
because she was afraid somebodywas going to yell at her.
And, or, or worse.
And if you bring that kind ofbaggage, you know, from a
previous role or from a previousexperience, uh, from a previous
failure, in the case of anentrepreneur, um, you know, that
stuff that, that lingers, that'slike a rock on your back,
Rushab Kamdar (11:16):
Yeah.
You know, we're, we're in adecade of consciousness now,
right?
We're being more self-aware andmental health is so important.
And I wanted to highlight thatbecause of men's mental health
awareness and for, you know,maybe any, any, uh, executive,
uh, entrepreneur, a boss, leaderout there that maybe listening
to this podcast, you know, to,to have, I'm a big believer in
(11:38):
empathy.
So to have that outlook and seethat when someone is coming in,
you know, how you treat youremployees and creating the
culture around it so that, youknow, no one should go to a job
and have a PTSD diagnosisleaving that job so.
Mike Manoske (11:51):
Exactly.
And I think being aware of it,you, you raised a great point,
Rushab.
Being aware of it is, you know,50% of it.
Um, that, that negative, I mean,we've seen it in personal lives,
you know, negative, you know,poor relationships.
It's the same thing in yourcareer.
And you know, how do you, how doyou shed the baggage?
(12:13):
How do you get the rock off yourback is a key part of my
coaching.
Because how do you, you can't goforward with that rock on your
back.
It's just gonna, it's just goingto continue to slow you down.
Rushab Kamdar (12:24):
Something else that you do I mentioned before
you teach at the WhartonExecutive MBA Program.
Now, Wharton is a great name.
Um, and I actually did got myMBA from an executive MBA
program.
So, um, and I had tremendousvalue from that, that style of
teaching.
Um, and you guys developed aprogram called The Job Search
Action Group.
Mike Manoske (12:43):
Right.
Rushab Kamdar (12:44):
Uh, so I'm just interested in hearing what that
exactly is specifically.
Mike Manoske (12:47):
Sure.
The first thing I'm going to aslight correction.
I don't teach at Wharton.
Teach, teach is a really loadedword.
Um, we built a program and theidea of the program was that
about 30% of the students thatwent through the Wharton
Executive MBA program got in theprogram, very successful career
(13:07):
as much like you, um, got inthere and went, oh, wait a
minute, something here lit meup.
I'm an engineer and marketinglit me up or, you know, I'm in
marketing and finance lit me up.
I want to go do somethingdifferent.
And, um, you know, the, theperson who runs career
advancement at San Francisco,uh, you know, a good friend of
(13:27):
mine, Steve Hernandez really sawthis.
Steve is also a recruiter.
He had 10 years of executiverecruiting.
Um, and what we recognized wasyou, they would get into the
program.
They would, they would want tomake a change and they were,
they, they locked up.
And they locked up because theydidn't know the logistics of
this because everything in theircareer had been smooth sailing.
(13:50):
Now, a big transition like this.
New skills needed to be put inplace.
So we built the Job SearchAction Group around two
concepts.
One is let's show you thelogistics.
Let's get you really good atthese logistics and turn this
into a skill set development.
And the second part of it islet's do it as a group.
Um, doing this now almost sevenyears.
(14:13):
And we have WhatsApp groups thathave, that have been active for
seven years.
Um, and we go through thelogistics of it.
Being recruiters, we're going toexplain the logistics.
Our goal is this becomes a skillset you can use the rest of your
career and we've we, we havetons and tons of success stories
(14:35):
around, around making this work.
Uh, it has been incrediblyrewarding watching people
continue,continue the upsurge intheir career, continue this
trampoline effect to, to, tomore and more responsibility.
But the better part is watchingthem not be afraid, not be
uncomfortable with the idea of,okay, it's time for me to make a
change.
(14:55):
Um, and to know that I have acommunity behind me, it's going
to back me when I do that.
Rushab Kamdar (15:01):
So, is it a, do you do, um, annual workshops,
uh, or virtually, or how has,how has the program actually
introduced
Mike Manoske (15:08):
It's a 14 week program, um, with seven
sessions.
Each session about an hour and ahalf.
And we we've identified, youknow, the core pieces of a job
search.
Everything from who do youtarget?
How do you describe yourself?
How do you create a brandstatement?
How do you create an effectiveLinkedIn profile?
Probably the biggest part of itis how do you have, and build
(15:30):
effective businessrelationships?
Not networking, effectiverelationships.
We were really that's that'sfoundational, but you really
can't go out and talk to peopleuntil you have a comfortable way
to describe yourself through abrand statement.
Everybody looks at your LinkedInprofile.
Let's get that updated.
Get out there, talking,understanding how people work,
(15:51):
understanding what the needs oftheir organizations are,
understanding their journey.
Notice this isn't aboutyourself.
This is really about the outsidethe outside world.
Um, then we can get youcomfortable with resume, with
interviewing and we even donegotiation.
You know, I've done 7 or 800just as a recruiter alone and
then probably a good 3 or 400 asa coach.
(16:13):
So we we've got some reallyinteresting approaches that are
not typical on how to do thesevarious, these various
categories of your job search.
Rushab Kamdar (16:25):
So we, we've identified and highlighted, you
know, your integral role of, ofthe various programs or your
coaching services on helping thejob candidate.
And you've basically taken allthat knowledge and experience,
and you created a book that'scoming out this year called The
Job Search Manifesto.
Um, so why, there's so manybooks out there, why did you
(16:48):
feel there's a need to writethis specific one and you know,
how does it differentiate, helpthose that are looking for jobs
or trying to move up in their,in their, um, specific industry
or company?
Mike Manoske (16:59):
You know, it's, Rushab, the question you just
asked, and the way you asked itis really helpful because we
didn't set out to write a book.
You know, we set out to build aprogram.
And about four years, five yearsinto the program, Wharton came
to us and said, this is, thisis, this needs to be a book and
so off we went.
What we realized was there's alot of books on this, but
(17:20):
they're, they're either reallythey're, they're not very deep,
they're broad, but not deep, um,or they're very focused on a
couple things.
Here, just do these couplethings.
What concerned us was they werealso not written by people
who've been in the trenches.
You know, I've hired a thousandpeople as a recruiting leader,
you know, Steve, you know,hundreds and hundreds on top of
that.
(17:40):
And what we realized was no onereally talked about the
logistics of this from, fromthe, uh, from people who were in
the trenches with us.
And that was, we saw, we sawbooks that were, you know, in
some cases really fluffy andthey weren't helping.
So with some reluctance, when westarted, we thought, okay, we're
going to write this book.
Um, and we have grown so much inthe process of writing the book.
(18:06):
You know, the pause you heard mesay was, I, I was thinking about
it was going to be so easy.
No, it wasn't easy.
It it was a really interestinggrowth process for both of us,
but what we realized was we'vebeen giving, and I think I
haven't sent you a kind of anearly version of the book.
Um, we actually been giving thatout to students for the last two
years.
(18:27):
And we've noticed a change.
Uh, I provide, you know, I doexternal, uh, I do an
abbreviated version of this atHireClub and I be giving out the
books.
What I'm finding is having astructure, having a process, not
that I want people to followlike this, this, this, this, and
this, you know, step-by-step butyou have a roadmap, we're seeing
(18:49):
an improvement in that alone.
So there, we just didn't seesomebody that had really
developed a good roadmap forthis.
And if you're trying to teachthis as a skill set, roadmap's
important.
So Google the book.
Rushab Kamdar (19:02):
I completely agree.
You know, I, I.
Frameworks, methodologies,processes.
The reason why these are sointegral because I have my own,
right?
I, I teach at business schoolsacross the country, um, and my
speaking workshops and, um, I'mteaching them how to think
business, the students, I'mthinking of teaching them how to
talk business.
(19:22):
And I, and I have, I haveframeworks, I have a blueprint.
I have acronyms on how tonetwork and, and you know, or
how to talk the language ofbusiness when you're networking.
And what I've recognized that alot of people have great,
valuable advice, but if theydon't put a methodology behind
it or a some type of system orframework, it's very hard for,
(19:44):
for the audience or anybody thatyou're teaching this to, to
really grasp it and refer to it.
Cause our brain thinks it bestwhen it's organized.
Mike Manoske (19:53):
Yeah, exactly.
And you know, what we found werethere were people and you've
see, I know you and I havetalked about this and you've
seen this people who will stayin unrewarding, uncomfortable if
not lousy jobs, because they'retoo afraid to leave.
That the fear of transition is,is worse in their head than
(20:14):
actually staying put.
And what we're saying is here'sa framework, let, let's get some
of the fear out of the way, andit's a proven framework.
So just like your work.
Rushab Kamdar (20:24):
Exactly and the key word it's a proven
framework.
Mike Manoske (20:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Rushab Kamdar (20:27):
Yeah.
And that's what you need, right?
So, um, well, you know, youmentioned that you gave me an
early version of your book and Igot to peruse that book.
Um, and what I, what struck outto me was this specific
statement you said, uh, by thetime the average job candidates
at 25 years old, um, who startswork, when they reach 65, they
(20:49):
will have had changed their jobevery 4.2 years.
So essentially the averageworking professional would
change jobs 10 times in theircareer.
Um, and I, I recently heard,it's unverified, but I'm just,
it's kind of hearsay, but Irecently heard that even with
millennials it's even quicker,it's like every 1.8 years or
something like that.
Mike Manoske (21:08):
That's definitely correct.
Rushab Kamdar (21:10):
Yeah.
So, uh, what does that tell youwith what's happening in this
dynamic of Corporate America andchanging of jobs every four
years?
Mike Manoske (21:21):
So the 4.2 year number you quoted, came from the
Bureau of Labor Statistics.
And it's you know, it's anationalized number.
Um, the number is shorter, youknow, the 1.8 years is actually
about right.
You know, we're and is, isbecoming more and more the norm.
Um, it's, it's really sayingthat there isn't, I hate to say
(21:45):
loyalty is dead, but what Iwould say is interest is higher.
The desire to go do new thingsis bigger.
So it isn't about loyalty.
It's about growth and aboutinterest.
And I think that's, that's thenew norm.
So, you know, organizations haveto be very prepared and I think
smart ones are doing that.
(22:08):
Around the idea of, um, how doI, how do I keep the people that
are critical in ourorganization?
How do I give them new growthopportunities?
Um, if organizations don't dothat, if I'm a, if I'm an
entrepreneur building a company,I've got to recognize that very
likely the people I bring infirst, I've got to make sure
they have channels and growthpaths.
(22:28):
If I don't do that, I'm going tolose key people at, you know, if
I'm a, if I'm an, in an earlystage startup that I founded, if
I'm an entrepreneur and I losethose key people, shame on me
because I need to make sure thatthey have growth.
Um, that's I, to me, that's oneof the key takeaways.
And I think particularly foryour audience.
Rushab Kamdar (22:49):
Well, you know, there's when I think about when
you said, you said the wordloyalty, you know, gone are the
days of, you know, having a 30year career in a company.
And there was this stigma Iremember when I was coming out
of college and even when I didmy MBA where it's like, you
don't want to show that you jumparound too much on your resume.
(23:09):
But I feel that with the shortenyears, that is pretty much now
the, the, the consistent resume.
It's a candidate that's beensomewhere every two years.
So have companies beenconditioned to this and now it's
not necessarily they'reexpecting loyalty, but maybe
they're looking at jobcandidates in a different way?
Mike Manoske (23:28):
They are absolutely.
Um, it's, it's not a stigma anylonger.
In fact, in fact, if you've beensomewhere three or four years,
there's almost a question.
You know, why, why, why didn'tyou grow?
Um, I don't want to create, Idon't want to create anybody
hearing this to think, Oh mygosh, I've been there three
years.
I'm I'm now failing.
No, it's not the case, but youknow, you, because businesses
(23:53):
now understand.
Smart businesses understand thatpeople will, people will move on
to things.
And the really smart businessesplan that growth for the people
so that they move on within theorganization.
That's to me, the key.
I've seen people and I've workedwith people and, and, you know,
people as well that have stayedwithin an organization for maybe
(24:14):
a decade but have held fivedifferent roles.
I'm fine with that.
You know, as a recruiter, I'mgreat with that because what
it's telling me is this is aperson that really wants to
contribute, wants to do a lot ofgood things, wants to grow.
And this organization was smartenough to be able to provide
that.
Rushab Kamdar (24:35):
Join us next week for part two of our interview
with Mike Manoske.
Thank you for joining us on theBusiness 360 Podcast to learn
more about our guests.
Go to ThinkBusiness360.com.
In life, I follow two thingsthat keep me grounded.
Number one, if you only listento someone's successes and not
their failures, you've onlyheard half the story and number
(24:58):
two, compete with yourself andhelp everyone else.
You stay classy Business Heroes.
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