December 30, 2025 • 29 mins
Recommending a mouse isn’t as simple as matching a product to a symptom.
In this episode of the Business of Ergonomics Podcast, Darcie breaks down how to choose the right mouse based on root cause analysis, biomechanics, and task demands — not trends or quick fixes. You’ll learn how different mouse designs affect wrist posture, forearm loading, shoulder strain, and motor control, and how to make recommendations that actually hold up in practice.
This episode is part two of a three-part series on office input devices and is designed for ergonomics and healthcare professionals who want to make confident, defensible mouse recommendations.
Link to blogpost: https://www.ergonomicshelp.com/blog/choosing-the-right-mouse-in-office-ergonomics
Are you a healthcare professional curious about how office ergonomics assessments could fit into your services? I’ve got you covered with some valuable (and free!) resources at www.ergonomicshelp.com/free-training.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, hey there.
We are talking about how to getyour client the best mouse that
addresses their concerns, theirpain, and their tasks.
Welcome to the Business ofErgonomics podcast.
I'm your host, Darcy Jeremy.
I'm a board certifiedprofessional agonist with over
15 years of experiencedelivering ergonomics programs
(00:23):
to employers of all differenttypes.
In this podcast, I share whatother healthcare professionals
are already doing and being withergonomics assessments and how
to land those clients that youdream of.
Without further ado, let's jumpinto this episode right now.
We're talking about how to bestrecommend the right mouse for
(00:46):
your client in the officeenvironment.
I'm coming at this from an angleof I had to learn while I was on
the job.
I started in office ergonomicsafter.
I had already been in theindustrial ergonomic world, and
if you don't know my story, Ithought shifting from industrial
ergonomics assessments to officeergonomics assessments was going
(01:08):
to be a literal cakewalk, almostlike a retirement, where I knew
that there was gonna be akeyboard, a mouse, a desk, a
monitor, and a chair, and I justhad to sort it all out when I
was at the assessment.
When I finally had to recommendan ergonomic type of mouse, I
don't even know where to go to,to find what type of mouse.
(01:30):
And other than general commonsense, I didn't know much about
mouse design and how it relatedto symptoms, so that's why we're
talking about this today.
It's very near and dear to myheart, especially when I hear of
other industrial ergonomics and.
Other healthcare professionalsjumping into office ergonomics
(01:52):
in fact, one of the members ofthe Accelerate Business of
Ergonomics program asked me aquestion about how do we get to
know what type of keyboard andmouse is best for our client?
Well, thus spawns this episodeand the series of episode that
we're in right now.
So part one, if you hadn'talready listened to that, it's
(02:12):
about root cause analysis andwhy that should be the absolute
foundation of any sort ofrecommendation that you use and
you recommend in an office,ergonomic assessment or any sort
of ergonomic process.
And then today we're talkingabout, as you already know, how
to select the best mouse foryour client and what types of.
(02:34):
Mice are out there in today'smodern age.
All of this is going to bebeyond the symptom based.
Strategy that sometimes you canhear about on internet today,
especially when you're lookingat blogs written by folks who
may not have the expertise ofmany years of doing ergonomics
(02:55):
and recommending ergonomicsproducts.
If you're reading blogs based onsomeone's symptoms, then they
might just recommend a certaintype of mouse based on what
reduces their pain in theirwrist.
And that might help that person,but it's not going to help every
situation that you see,especially if you're gonna be
recommending the most ergonomictype of mouse for that person
(03:16):
from your point of view, thatexpert point of view.
And you're getting paid for thisstuff, right?
Recommending the right mouse forthe right reason after a very
thorough root cause analysis andreally understanding the types
of mice that are on the markettoday is absolutely life
changing for your client.
We can reduce their discomfort,we can improve their quality of
(03:37):
work, their quality of life, andtheir productivity before we
begin.
I want to make sure we're allstarting off on the same foot
and this is what we are actuallygonna be doing here today moving
forward as ergonomicsprofessionals from the very top
floor 30,000 foot view, we aregonna be applying the definition
(03:59):
of ergonomics, and you are aseasoned ergonomics expert just
like me.
I can only assume, so youalready know that we are fitting
the work to the worker.
it's not the other way around.
When it's the other way around,that's when problems can arise,
and that's probably why you asan ergonomics expert is being
called into that workplace inthe first place, right?
(04:19):
We are gonna be using the rootcause analysis.
We're not just chasing thesymptoms that that person is
reporting.
If you are not yet familiar withroot cause analysis or how to
use them, I really want torecommend you listen to the
episode that comes before thisone.
This is another really importantpoint.
We're gonna be looking atapplying the hierarchy of
(04:40):
controls.
Just because we're talking aboutMICE today doesn't necessarily
mean that you need to recommenda mouse to your client.
I wanna encourage you to reachout to different vendors.
Some vendors have programsavailable for professional
agonists so that you can trytheir mouse.
Try their keyboard.
There is a blog and download soyou can get the most out of this
(05:04):
episode.
So check out the show notes,head to the blog, and get
started with recommending thebest mouse for your client.
Let's start off with mouseselection, why it matters.
The mouse, technically speakingis not a neutral tool.
this is a repetitive inputdevice that fundamentally
(05:24):
changes your client's wristposture, forearm rotation,
tendon loading, nervecompression, shoulder and elbow
torque and motor controldemands, and in many knowledge
work jobs, your client's gonnabe using the mouse thousands of
times per day.
And yet it's often treated as anafterthought or worse, a
(05:48):
cosmetic comfort item.
So if nothing is done after thatperson starts to notice
awkwardness with the mouse painover a period of time you might.
Be witness to more extremesituations and common conditions
associated with poor mouseMechanics can include carpal
(06:12):
tunnel syndrome, lateral andmedial epicondylitis, corvin
shoulder and neck fatigue, thumband finger tendon issues.
Here are the three biggestmistakes I see ergonomics
professionals make whenrecommending mice.
Number one, they're recommendingbased on diagnosis alone, and I
(06:35):
have certainly seen this timeand time again, especially with
people who are just gettingfamiliar with the types of mice
out there and the ergonomicsprocess.
Don't fall into the trap thatwrist pain automatically equals
a vertical mouse withoutunderstanding why the wrist
hurts in the first place.
It could be that the desk heightis just way too high for that
(06:56):
person, or they're using a setupthat's not ideal for them
whatsoever.
You can fix that by doing athorough root cause analysis.
The second biggest mistake thatI see is ignoring the task
demands.
The way that I recommend doingan ergonomics assessment, and if
you are learning on how to do anergonomics assessment in the
(07:19):
office, I want to encourage youto look at my program called the
Ergonomics Blueprint.
You have to do a thorough taskanalysis in order to recommend
the best product becauseprecision graphic work and
spreadsheet navigation are notthe same motor problem, and
they're gonna need differentsolutions, not only in setup.
(07:40):
But types of mice available andskipping trials.
This is the third one.
The third part here is skippingtrials.
As an ergonomics professional,you may be able to narrow down a
certain type of mouse.
But there can be a bigdifference between angles and
types of mice that are availableper brand So if you avoid these
(08:00):
three mistakes, then you'realready on the right curve.
Let's then talk aboutbiomechanics, what the mouse
does to the body, and I wannaget a little bit mechanical.
I want you to think of the upperbody as a linked system of
levers.
You have your shoulder, yourelbow, down to your forearm,
down to your wrist, and thefingers from there.
(08:22):
The angles matter so much here.
Neutral posture isn't like afancy book learning word that
agonists talk about, It actuallyis a huge part that we want to
recommend to our clients becauseneutral means that it's not
bringing in extra ergonomicsrisk when the neutral posture is
(08:46):
achieved.
Then there's lots of positivethings that come out.
For instance, like a neutralwrist posture actually means
that there's lower tendonfriction.
Reduced pronation not only meansthat it's more of a neutral.
Posture, it means that there'slower forearm muscle activation.
Reduce reach is not all abouthow things are positioned on the
(09:08):
workstation.
It means that there's actually alower shoulder torque.
If I were to put this into likea very simple strategy, the
further that you move away fromneutral, the higher the internal
load.
And over time of being exposedto that higher load with that
awkward joint angle, thelikelihood that discomfort is
(09:31):
going to be put into thatsystem.
Have you heard the word torque?
If you have taken any ergonomicscourses in your university or
college days, then maybe youwere introduced to this idea of
moments around a joint.
so when a mouse is actually toofar away or too high, or forces
awkward wrist angles, thatmoment arm increases and the
(09:57):
muscles must work harder for thesame task.
And we know that because if youwere to hold a box 30 inches
away from your body, that isfundamentally more forceful and
creates more torque on yourlower back compared to keeping
that box as close as possible toyou.
(10:18):
When the moment arm increases,the muscles must work harder for
the same task.
Over time, that results infatigue.
Fatigue leads to compensation,and compensation leads to pain.
Okay, let's look at tendons andnerves for a second too.
Tendons glide through confinedspaces and nerves hate
compression, wrist extension anddeviation.
(10:41):
Increase the carpal tunnel.
Pressure pronation changes thetendon pass and increases
friction.
So a mouse just doesn't feeluncomfortable.
It changes the tissue loading.
Predisposes that angle, thatwrist position to more trauma
One more thing I wanna talkabout from an ergonomics
perspective, because you know Ilove me some ergonomics.
(11:05):
I wanna talk about motor controland Fitz Law and this is all
stuff happen up.
In the brain because ergonomicsis not just about biomechanics
or the physical body, it's aboutmotor control.
and this can actually play arole in the type of mouse that
you recommend for your client.
So let's take a deeper dive intoFitz Law.
Fitz Law tells us that movementtime depends on the distance to
(11:30):
the target and the size of thetarget.
So when you change the mouse,you change the movement strategy
Then there's a speed accuracytrade off here, and it can
change the cognitive demand.
A high angle vertical mousemight reduce pronation, but it
can also reduce the fine motorbandwidth.
And then let's look at a trackball.
(11:51):
A track ball eliminates armmovement.
But it concentrates movement inthe fingers or the thumb, and
there's always a trade off here.
The goal isn't perfection, it'soptimization for the task.
So if you have done a reallygood thorough task analysis,
you'll best be able to recommendthe best mouse for that person.
(12:12):
If they're doing graphic designversus spreadsheet work, there
is a way that you can navigatethis.
Let's bring another level tothis conversation because gosh
knows we're not just gonna fitthe best type of mouse based on
motor control or even the momentarm.
We need to get real withergonomic principles, and it's
so critical here.
(12:34):
You could recommend the bestmouse on the market.
But obviously your client canstill be in pain because that
mouse doesn't override the badworkstation setup.
And that's why you wanna makesure that you are doing a
thorough root cause analysis,thorough observations, And
really what this means isobserving the person doing the
(12:54):
work, pulling out your tapemeasure, taking some
measurements, and getting real.
I have some real biggeneralities here, but when you
do your own thorough ergonomicsrisk analysis, you're definitely
gonna come up with your own.
But really, you wanna make surethat some really basic ones is
that.
Before you jump to any sort ofmouse recommendation, you gotta
(13:17):
make sure that they are mouthingon the same plane as their
keyboard and that is within aneutral posture that they are
not doing any excessive externalshoulder rotation when they're
mouthing eight.
No mouse in this world is gonnasave that client from external
shoulder rotation.
(13:38):
You wanna make sure that theyare mounting in an optimal reach
zone, and you wanna make surethat they have appropriate desk
and chair height combination tofit that person's stature and
whatever else they have goingon.
If you skip those basicergonomics principles.
Then you're just settingyourself and your client up for
failure.
(13:58):
There I said it.
I said it.
You're setting yourself up forfailure and that's why I teach
this in the ergonomicsblueprint.
We're talking big picture andergonomic staples.
If you want more informationabout Ergonomics Blueprint and
how I can teach you how to do anergonomics assessment, go to the
description.
I'm gonna show you how you canget started.
(14:19):
The end of the day, whateverproduct that markets themself as
a standalone solution is not astandalone solution.
It's impossible.
Office ergonomics is a movingsystem with lots of interrelated
parts that give you the emergentproperty of feeling pain or
(14:40):
feeling good.
So you have to look at this witha magnifying glass, all the
moving pieces in a system, andthat brings us to.
The mice.
This is why we're here.
I'm gonna give you some goods onthis.
I have this amazing comparisonchart that compares different
mice on the market today.
(15:00):
So these are mice with excellentreputations and compares them on
different features.
So it can definitely help youmake a decision.
You know where that is.
Yeah, the show notes.
I'm gonna show you how to getthat.
Actually, if you just go withthe blog post for this podcast
episode, you're gonna get adownload right there.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Let's start with the standardmouse.
(15:22):
Yes, the standard mouse thatcomes with every keyboard in
this world today.
Standard Mouse.
The good thing about it is thateverybody knows how to use it.
My favorite part about thestandard mouse is that it's
actually an ambidextrous option.
When we talked about thehierarchy of ergonomics controls
in the last episode, you alreadyknow that we start with
(15:46):
engineering solutions.
Then we do administrativestraight, then behavioral, then
personal protective equipment.
Ambidextrous design falls intothe world of administrative
controls, so you can get afairly good idea of how you can
eliminate that ergonomics riskby job design with ambidextrous
options, there's certainly a waythat you can get that person to
(16:10):
use the index finger for leftclicking so they can keep that
mental pathway.
To, just reverse those buttonson that mouse so they can
continually use that left clickbutton with their index finger.
You can Google it, it's veryeasy, but you can set it up for
your client in the ergonomicsassessment, and that is
(16:33):
excellence in ergonomics.
Why would you want that personto use an ambidextrous mouse?
If they have a very high levelof pain in the right wrist,
carpal tunnel, things like that,then eliminating the pain on the
right side by left-handed mouseusing That tip of index finger
clipping is a very big tip thatcan eliminate the pain.
Takes about a week to get usedto it.
(16:55):
That's huge.
I digress.
We're talking about a standardmouse.
We're talking about the goodparts of it, so it's familiar
ambidextrous options.
It's good for large sweepingtasks.
The limitations of a standardmouse is that it requires
pronation and often there issome anar and radial deviation.
(17:15):
So this can actually cause somediscomfort and it can also
create contact stress betweenthe base of the hand and the
wrist and that surface area ofthe work surface as well.
Vertical mice.
Some of my favorite miceavailable on the market today.
Why do they work?
Well?
That magic word of neutral wristposture reduces pronation.
(17:39):
It encourages a neutral wristposture and it offloads the
forearm tendons.
The limitations of verticalmice, really interesting part
here.
There's lots of different sizesusually and angles of vertical
mice.
Mice comes in different anglesand sizes, so you can really get
(18:00):
this to fit your client.
You might have an option ofmeasuring from their palm to
their middle finger, and thathelps you to choose the right
size for them.
But do your due diligence on themice that you're gonna recommend
so you can get them the rightangle and the right size.
So with a vertical mouse, thereis a learning curve associated
(18:22):
with it, and depending on thatperson and the specifics around
with that, they may want aforearm support, although it's
very, very few and far betweenthat I have ever seen it in my
practice.
Sometimes the precision caninitially take a drop while that
person is learning how to use avertical mouse.
but in terms of reducing theergonomic risk for that person
(18:44):
and allowing that person to workfrom a handshake position or
more of a neutral posture ishuge.
Semi vertical mice are thosetypes of mice that aren't quite
vertical, but are not a standardmouse either.
They're great for preventativeusers and those people who are
struggling a bit with the fullvertical adaptation.
(19:08):
It's more neutral than regular,but it's not absolute neutral.
Let's talk about the rollermouse and central pointing
devices.
They're useful because iteliminates lateral reaching.
It reduces the shoulder loadbecause things are so close to
that person and it keeps thehands at midline.
(19:28):
I once recommended a rollermouse for a person to help with
the return to work.
So the background of the storyis that someone was walking
across the parking lot.
It was Canada and it wasFebruary.
So they slipped a ice and broketheir elbow because it happened
at work.
This was a workers' compensationboard claim, and that company
(19:53):
needed to get that person backto work as soon as it was safe
for them to return to work.
that was to eliminate thecompounding of the cost related
to that claim.
So anyway, we had this personreturn back to work as soon as
their doctor said it was okay.
And what we ended up doing,because their right arm
dominate, and that was when thebroken elbow happened.
(20:15):
We got them a roller mouse andthey were able to use.
Their right hand and their lefthand because it keeps the hands
pretty much at midline andallowed them to work.
and it probably helped withtheir healing because they were
engaged with work.
Four roller mice, and sometimesthere can be issues with
reaching for the keyboardbecause there is more of a
(20:38):
horizontal distance there.
So keep that in mind whenrecommending it because it might
not be awesome for all of yourclients.
Let's talk about track balls.
Let's talk about track balls andif you were a nineties kid like
me, then you know.
a track ball is basically an oldstyle mouse flipped upside down.
(20:58):
You know how old style mice,they had this ball at the very
bottom of it instead of a laser.
What a track ball is that ballon the underside put on the top
so that you can navigate it withyour fingers.
The balls on the top.
So the big distinction in trackballs is the size of the ball
and where it's located.
(21:19):
Sometimes you have a thumbcontrolled ball versus a finger
controlled ball.
Sometimes you have a very smallball versus a very big ball.
So I want you to keep in mindhow this relates to that
person's discomfort and whatelse they have going on.
The pro of this is because theball is on top of the mouse.
(21:41):
There's very minimal armmovement here, and this is great
for shoulder pain and it's alsovery good in tight spaces.
The con is based on where theball is and what size it is.
We wanna be very hesitant torecommend one, just that
overloads the thumb, becausethat's an awkward position.
(22:02):
And remember how much we use themice in a typical day, thousands
of times a day.
That can cause overload in thethumb.
The real big thing here is thatyou can get some really neat
track balls.
The size of the ball matterswhen there's a bigger ball in a
track ball that encourages thewhole hand to be involved.
(22:23):
So that technically speakingshould be a little bit more
neutral and easier on the handbecause you're not.
Exerting all the force in thelittle tendon to move compared
with a small ball that canreally cause fingertip strain.
So be aware of that.
Next up I wanna talk about trackpads.
(22:44):
These are probably the most wellknown for Mac users and probably
the best setup for Mac usersbecause you can use those
gesture heavy tasks.
And these are also useful forgrip pain.
So if someone has some lateralepicondylitis issues with
gripping a mouse, then you mightwanna look at a track pad or
(23:04):
something related to a trackpad, maybe even a roller mouse,
'cause you're eliminating the togrip.
The limitations with a track padare related to fatigue with
dragging items on it and fingeroverload.
Next, let's talk about joystickmice.
Joystick mice is something thatwe don't see very often as
(23:25):
ergonomics professionals.
These are often classified asaccessibility devices, but these
can be very useful for somepeople.
The key thing here is that youwant to.
Encourage the person to engagethe arm and not the wrist.
'cause if they're just using thewrist, when you're using these
(23:46):
types of mice, then you canactually get into a lot of
awkward, not neutral postures inthe wrist.
the joysticks also really goodfor tremors and neurological
conditions and severe wristlimitation because it engages
the larger arm muscles.
The next thing I wanna dive intois matching the mouse to the
(24:09):
pain.
And the reason why this is thevery last piece of the puzzle is
that I didn't wanna give you thegoods at first.
I wanted you to go through thethorough ergonomics process so
we don't just jump to matchingthe mouse for the pain So the
best type of mice available forcarpal tunnel in my opinion, are
(24:31):
either the vertical mice or theroller mouse.
Or if you don't wanna look at mysolutions, it's switching to
left hand and nosing.
that may be even way better thana mouse because you're
eliminating all hazards on thatsegment of the body.
For tennis elbow, you wanna lookat a mouse that can reduce the
gripping.
So things like a track ballmight be really useful or a
(24:56):
vertical or central type ofdevice as well would be useful.
You might also wanna consideralternating hands as well for
shoulder pain.
You should be looking atwhatever's going on in that
reach, whether it's a long reachto go to type, or if that mouse
is positioned in a reallyawkward position.
(25:18):
You wanna fix that first.
That also includes externalrotation and how high the
workplaces.
A really good solution here isto look at a compact keyboard.
A compact keyboard eliminatesright-handed external rotation
with the mounting, You mightalso wanna look at central
pointing devices like a rollermouse because it's very much
(25:40):
closer to that person.
However, if you are gonna beusing like a roller mouse type
of device, it does increase thehorizontal reach to the
keyboard.
So something you have to weigh.
If shoulder pain is only on oneside of the body, like the right
hand mouthing arm, consider lefthand mouthing because that would
eliminate the pain.
And of course, you wanna do yourdue diligence to make sure that
(26:03):
all the workstation heights anddistances are within the
recommended parameters forarthritis.
Some of the best things that Ihave found are large contoured
mice that allows that hand tojust rest in like the hand shoe
type of mouse that's reallyuseful.
And you wanna look at devicesthat doesn't allow pinching.
(26:26):
So we're not really looking atthings that increases.
track balls can be really usefultoo for thumb pain.
If that person already has athumb pain and is using a track
ball, You might wanna considerusing a roller mouse or a
vertical mouse to make sure thatperson's in a better setup.
I just wanna reiterate howimportant work height and reach
(26:48):
distance.
Is in selecting the best type ofmouse.
In many cases, you might noteven need to recommend a mouse
because there's just so muchhorizontal reaching that's
required, or their neutral elbowheight is so much lower than the
work surface.
If you don't know what I'mtalking about with any of this,
(27:09):
then.
The Ergonomics Blueprint is areally good resource, and it
could be the good next step foryou.
Check out the show notes and howyou can get started with that.
Last but not least, a new mouseis a motor learning task, so
this is not gonna be like afairy godmothers magical wand.
(27:29):
It's going to take.
Three to seven days ofadaptation.
It could be a temporary drop inspeed.
However, over time there shouldbe an improve in comfort.
It's not gonna happenimmediately.
So what this means if someonequits after one day, you haven't
failed, they just haven'tadapted yet.
(27:50):
So you need to coach those folksto keep on trying it out.
I want you to try everythingyourself and build your own
ergonomics library of equipment.
So I wanna be real with youhere, and you probably already
figured this out.
There is no best mouse availableon the market today.
(28:11):
There is only the right mousefor the right person doing the
right task in the right setup.
thanks for listening to theBusiness of Ergonomics podcast.
If this episode helped you shareit with another person
considering getting intoergonomics or other ergonomics,
professional friends, becausethat helps to get the word out.
(28:32):
I'll see you in the next episodewhere we're going to be closing
off the three part series andI'm gonna be talking about the
best keyboards to recommend Youcan get started with office
ergonomics assessments.
Today, healthcare professionalsare seeing the potential and
opportunity to add officeergonomics assessments to their
(28:55):
practice and services.
Go to ergonomics help.com.
Slash begin to get the exactseven step process that works so
that you can get started todaywithout the confusion or
overwhelm.
Just head to ergonomicshelp.com/begin now.
Well, hey there.
We are talking about how to getyour client the best mouse that
addresses their concerns, theirpain, and their tasks.
Welcome to the Business ofErgonomics podcast.
I'm your host, Darcy Jeremy.
I'm a board certifiedprofessional agonist with over
15 years of experiencedelivering ergonomics programs
(00:23):
to employers of all differenttypes.
In this podcast, I share whatother healthcare professionals
are already doing and being withergonomics assessments and how
to land those clients that youdream of.
Without further ado, let's jumpinto this episode right now.
We're talking about how to bestrecommend the right mouse for
(00:46):
your client in the officeenvironment.
I'm coming at this from an angleof I had to learn while I was on
the job.
I started in office ergonomicsafter.
I had already been in theindustrial ergonomic world, and
if you don't know my story, Ithought shifting from industrial
ergonomics assessments to officeergonomics assessments was going
(01:08):
to be a literal cakewalk, almostlike a retirement, where I knew
that there was gonna be akeyboard, a mouse, a desk, a
monitor, and a chair, and I justhad to sort it all out when I
was at the assessment.
When I finally had to recommendan ergonomic type of mouse, I
don't even know where to go to,to find what type of mouse.
(01:30):
And other than general commonsense, I didn't know much about
mouse design and how it relatedto symptoms, so that's why we're
talking about this today.
It's very near and dear to myheart, especially when I hear of
other industrial ergonomics and.
Other healthcare professionalsjumping into office ergonomics
(01:52):
in fact, one of the members ofthe Accelerate Business of
Ergonomics program asked me aquestion about how do we get to
know what type of keyboard andmouse is best for our client?
Well, thus spawns this episodeand the series of episode that
we're in right now.
So part one, if you hadn'talready listened to that, it's
(02:12):
about root cause analysis andwhy that should be the absolute
foundation of any sort ofrecommendation that you use and
you recommend in an office,ergonomic assessment or any sort
of ergonomic process.
And then today we're talkingabout, as you already know, how
to select the best mouse foryour client and what types of.
(02:34):
Mice are out there in today'smodern age.
All of this is going to bebeyond the symptom based.
Strategy that sometimes you canhear about on internet today,
especially when you're lookingat blogs written by folks who
may not have the expertise ofmany years of doing ergonomics
(02:55):
and recommending ergonomicsproducts.
If you're reading blogs based onsomeone's symptoms, then they
might just recommend a certaintype of mouse based on what
reduces their pain in theirwrist.
And that might help that person,but it's not going to help every
situation that you see,especially if you're gonna be
recommending the most ergonomictype of mouse for that person
(03:16):
from your point of view, thatexpert point of view.
And you're getting paid for thisstuff, right?
Recommending the right mouse forthe right reason after a very
thorough root cause analysis andreally understanding the types
of mice that are on the markettoday is absolutely life
changing for your client.
We can reduce their discomfort,we can improve their quality of
(03:37):
work, their quality of life, andtheir productivity before we
begin.
I want to make sure we're allstarting off on the same foot
and this is what we are actuallygonna be doing here today moving
forward as ergonomicsprofessionals from the very top
floor 30,000 foot view, we aregonna be applying the definition
(03:59):
of ergonomics, and you are aseasoned ergonomics expert just
like me.
I can only assume, so youalready know that we are fitting
the work to the worker.
it's not the other way around.
When it's the other way around,that's when problems can arise,
and that's probably why you asan ergonomics expert is being
called into that workplace inthe first place, right?
(04:19):
We are gonna be using the rootcause analysis.
We're not just chasing thesymptoms that that person is
reporting.
If you are not yet familiar withroot cause analysis or how to
use them, I really want torecommend you listen to the
episode that comes before thisone.
This is another really importantpoint.
We're gonna be looking atapplying the hierarchy of
(04:40):
controls.
Just because we're talking aboutMICE today doesn't necessarily
mean that you need to recommenda mouse to your client.
I wanna encourage you to reachout to different vendors.
Some vendors have programsavailable for professional
agonists so that you can trytheir mouse.
Try their keyboard.
There is a blog and download soyou can get the most out of this
(05:04):
episode.
So check out the show notes,head to the blog, and get
started with recommending thebest mouse for your client.
Let's start off with mouseselection, why it matters.
The mouse, technically speakingis not a neutral tool.
this is a repetitive inputdevice that fundamentally
(05:24):
changes your client's wristposture, forearm rotation,
tendon loading, nervecompression, shoulder and elbow
torque and motor controldemands, and in many knowledge
work jobs, your client's gonnabe using the mouse thousands of
times per day.
And yet it's often treated as anafterthought or worse, a
(05:48):
cosmetic comfort item.
So if nothing is done after thatperson starts to notice
awkwardness with the mouse painover a period of time you might.
Be witness to more extremesituations and common conditions
associated with poor mouseMechanics can include carpal
(06:12):
tunnel syndrome, lateral andmedial epicondylitis, corvin
shoulder and neck fatigue, thumband finger tendon issues.
Here are the three biggestmistakes I see ergonomics
professionals make whenrecommending mice.
Number one, they're recommendingbased on diagnosis alone, and I
(06:35):
have certainly seen this timeand time again, especially with
people who are just gettingfamiliar with the types of mice
out there and the ergonomicsprocess.
Don't fall into the trap thatwrist pain automatically equals
a vertical mouse withoutunderstanding why the wrist
hurts in the first place.
It could be that the desk heightis just way too high for that
(06:56):
person, or they're using a setupthat's not ideal for them
whatsoever.
You can fix that by doing athorough root cause analysis.
The second biggest mistake thatI see is ignoring the task
demands.
The way that I recommend doingan ergonomics assessment, and if
you are learning on how to do anergonomics assessment in the
(07:19):
office, I want to encourage youto look at my program called the
Ergonomics Blueprint.
You have to do a thorough taskanalysis in order to recommend
the best product becauseprecision graphic work and
spreadsheet navigation are notthe same motor problem, and
they're gonna need differentsolutions, not only in setup.
(07:40):
But types of mice available andskipping trials.
This is the third one.
The third part here is skippingtrials.
As an ergonomics professional,you may be able to narrow down a
certain type of mouse.
But there can be a bigdifference between angles and
types of mice that are availableper brand So if you avoid these
(08:00):
three mistakes, then you'realready on the right curve.
Let's then talk aboutbiomechanics, what the mouse
does to the body, and I wannaget a little bit mechanical.
I want you to think of the upperbody as a linked system of
levers.
You have your shoulder, yourelbow, down to your forearm,
down to your wrist, and thefingers from there.
(08:22):
The angles matter so much here.
Neutral posture isn't like afancy book learning word that
agonists talk about, It actuallyis a huge part that we want to
recommend to our clients becauseneutral means that it's not
bringing in extra ergonomicsrisk when the neutral posture is
(08:46):
achieved.
Then there's lots of positivethings that come out.
For instance, like a neutralwrist posture actually means
that there's lower tendonfriction.
Reduced pronation not only meansthat it's more of a neutral.
Posture, it means that there'slower forearm muscle activation.
Reduce reach is not all abouthow things are positioned on the
(09:08):
workstation.
It means that there's actually alower shoulder torque.
If I were to put this into likea very simple strategy, the
further that you move away fromneutral, the higher the internal
load.
And over time of being exposedto that higher load with that
awkward joint angle, thelikelihood that discomfort is
(09:31):
going to be put into thatsystem.
Have you heard the word torque?
If you have taken any ergonomicscourses in your university or
college days, then maybe youwere introduced to this idea of
moments around a joint.
so when a mouse is actually toofar away or too high, or forces
awkward wrist angles, thatmoment arm increases and the
(09:57):
muscles must work harder for thesame task.
And we know that because if youwere to hold a box 30 inches
away from your body, that isfundamentally more forceful and
creates more torque on yourlower back compared to keeping
that box as close as possible toyou.
(10:18):
When the moment arm increases,the muscles must work harder for
the same task.
Over time, that results infatigue.
Fatigue leads to compensation,and compensation leads to pain.
Okay, let's look at tendons andnerves for a second too.
Tendons glide through confinedspaces and nerves hate
compression, wrist extension anddeviation.
(10:41):
Increase the carpal tunnel.
Pressure pronation changes thetendon pass and increases
friction.
So a mouse just doesn't feeluncomfortable.
It changes the tissue loading.
Predisposes that angle, thatwrist position to more trauma
One more thing I wanna talkabout from an ergonomics
perspective, because you know Ilove me some ergonomics.
(11:05):
I wanna talk about motor controland Fitz Law and this is all
stuff happen up.
In the brain because ergonomicsis not just about biomechanics
or the physical body, it's aboutmotor control.
and this can actually play arole in the type of mouse that
you recommend for your client.
So let's take a deeper dive intoFitz Law.
Fitz Law tells us that movementtime depends on the distance to
(11:30):
the target and the size of thetarget.
So when you change the mouse,you change the movement strategy
Then there's a speed accuracytrade off here, and it can
change the cognitive demand.
A high angle vertical mousemight reduce pronation, but it
can also reduce the fine motorbandwidth.
And then let's look at a trackball.
(11:51):
A track ball eliminates armmovement.
But it concentrates movement inthe fingers or the thumb, and
there's always a trade off here.
The goal isn't perfection, it'soptimization for the task.
So if you have done a reallygood thorough task analysis,
you'll best be able to recommendthe best mouse for that person.
(12:12):
If they're doing graphic designversus spreadsheet work, there
is a way that you can navigatethis.
Let's bring another level tothis conversation because gosh
knows we're not just gonna fitthe best type of mouse based on
motor control or even the momentarm.
We need to get real withergonomic principles, and it's
so critical here.
(12:34):
You could recommend the bestmouse on the market.
But obviously your client canstill be in pain because that
mouse doesn't override the badworkstation setup.
And that's why you wanna makesure that you are doing a
thorough root cause analysis,thorough observations, And
really what this means isobserving the person doing the
(12:54):
work, pulling out your tapemeasure, taking some
measurements, and getting real.
I have some real biggeneralities here, but when you
do your own thorough ergonomicsrisk analysis, you're definitely
gonna come up with your own.
But really, you wanna make surethat some really basic ones is
that.
Before you jump to any sort ofmouse recommendation, you gotta
(13:17):
make sure that they are mouthingon the same plane as their
keyboard and that is within aneutral posture that they are
not doing any excessive externalshoulder rotation when they're
mouthing eight.
No mouse in this world is gonnasave that client from external
shoulder rotation.
(13:38):
You wanna make sure that theyare mounting in an optimal reach
zone, and you wanna make surethat they have appropriate desk
and chair height combination tofit that person's stature and
whatever else they have goingon.
If you skip those basicergonomics principles.
Then you're just settingyourself and your client up for
failure.
(13:58):
There I said it.
I said it.
You're setting yourself up forfailure and that's why I teach
this in the ergonomicsblueprint.
We're talking big picture andergonomic staples.
If you want more informationabout Ergonomics Blueprint and
how I can teach you how to do anergonomics assessment, go to the
description.
I'm gonna show you how you canget started.
(14:19):
The end of the day, whateverproduct that markets themself as
a standalone solution is not astandalone solution.
It's impossible.
Office ergonomics is a movingsystem with lots of interrelated
parts that give you the emergentproperty of feeling pain or
(14:40):
feeling good.
So you have to look at this witha magnifying glass, all the
moving pieces in a system, andthat brings us to.
The mice.
This is why we're here.
I'm gonna give you some goods onthis.
I have this amazing comparisonchart that compares different
mice on the market today.
(15:00):
So these are mice with excellentreputations and compares them on
different features.
So it can definitely help youmake a decision.
You know where that is.
Yeah, the show notes.
I'm gonna show you how to getthat.
Actually, if you just go withthe blog post for this podcast
episode, you're gonna get adownload right there.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Let's start with the standardmouse.
(15:22):
Yes, the standard mouse thatcomes with every keyboard in
this world today.
Standard Mouse.
The good thing about it is thateverybody knows how to use it.
My favorite part about thestandard mouse is that it's
actually an ambidextrous option.
When we talked about thehierarchy of ergonomics controls
in the last episode, you alreadyknow that we start with
(15:46):
engineering solutions.
Then we do administrativestraight, then behavioral, then
personal protective equipment.
Ambidextrous design falls intothe world of administrative
controls, so you can get afairly good idea of how you can
eliminate that ergonomics riskby job design with ambidextrous
options, there's certainly a waythat you can get that person to
(16:10):
use the index finger for leftclicking so they can keep that
mental pathway.
To, just reverse those buttonson that mouse so they can
continually use that left clickbutton with their index finger.
You can Google it, it's veryeasy, but you can set it up for
your client in the ergonomicsassessment, and that is
(16:33):
excellence in ergonomics.
Why would you want that personto use an ambidextrous mouse?
If they have a very high levelof pain in the right wrist,
carpal tunnel, things like that,then eliminating the pain on the
right side by left-handed mouseusing That tip of index finger
clipping is a very big tip thatcan eliminate the pain.
Takes about a week to get usedto it.
(16:55):
That's huge.
I digress.
We're talking about a standardmouse.
We're talking about the goodparts of it, so it's familiar
ambidextrous options.
It's good for large sweepingtasks.
The limitations of a standardmouse is that it requires
pronation and often there issome anar and radial deviation.
(17:15):
So this can actually cause somediscomfort and it can also
create contact stress betweenthe base of the hand and the
wrist and that surface area ofthe work surface as well.
Vertical mice.
Some of my favorite miceavailable on the market today.
Why do they work?
Well?
That magic word of neutral wristposture reduces pronation.
(17:39):
It encourages a neutral wristposture and it offloads the
forearm tendons.
The limitations of verticalmice, really interesting part
here.
There's lots of different sizesusually and angles of vertical
mice.
Mice comes in different anglesand sizes, so you can really get
(18:00):
this to fit your client.
You might have an option ofmeasuring from their palm to
their middle finger, and thathelps you to choose the right
size for them.
But do your due diligence on themice that you're gonna recommend
so you can get them the rightangle and the right size.
So with a vertical mouse, thereis a learning curve associated
(18:22):
with it, and depending on thatperson and the specifics around
with that, they may want aforearm support, although it's
very, very few and far betweenthat I have ever seen it in my
practice.
Sometimes the precision caninitially take a drop while that
person is learning how to use avertical mouse.
but in terms of reducing theergonomic risk for that person
(18:44):
and allowing that person to workfrom a handshake position or
more of a neutral posture ishuge.
Semi vertical mice are thosetypes of mice that aren't quite
vertical, but are not a standardmouse either.
They're great for preventativeusers and those people who are
struggling a bit with the fullvertical adaptation.
(19:08):
It's more neutral than regular,but it's not absolute neutral.
Let's talk about the rollermouse and central pointing
devices.
They're useful because iteliminates lateral reaching.
It reduces the shoulder loadbecause things are so close to
that person and it keeps thehands at midline.
(19:28):
I once recommended a rollermouse for a person to help with
the return to work.
So the background of the storyis that someone was walking
across the parking lot.
It was Canada and it wasFebruary.
So they slipped a ice and broketheir elbow because it happened
at work.
This was a workers' compensationboard claim, and that company
(19:53):
needed to get that person backto work as soon as it was safe
for them to return to work.
that was to eliminate thecompounding of the cost related
to that claim.
So anyway, we had this personreturn back to work as soon as
their doctor said it was okay.
And what we ended up doing,because their right arm
dominate, and that was when thebroken elbow happened.
(20:15):
We got them a roller mouse andthey were able to use.
Their right hand and their lefthand because it keeps the hands
pretty much at midline andallowed them to work.
and it probably helped withtheir healing because they were
engaged with work.
Four roller mice, and sometimesthere can be issues with
reaching for the keyboardbecause there is more of a
(20:38):
horizontal distance there.
So keep that in mind whenrecommending it because it might
not be awesome for all of yourclients.
Let's talk about track balls.
Let's talk about track balls andif you were a nineties kid like
me, then you know.
a track ball is basically an oldstyle mouse flipped upside down.
(20:58):
You know how old style mice,they had this ball at the very
bottom of it instead of a laser.
What a track ball is that ballon the underside put on the top
so that you can navigate it withyour fingers.
The balls on the top.
So the big distinction in trackballs is the size of the ball
and where it's located.
(21:19):
Sometimes you have a thumbcontrolled ball versus a finger
controlled ball.
Sometimes you have a very smallball versus a very big ball.
So I want you to keep in mindhow this relates to that
person's discomfort and whatelse they have going on.
The pro of this is because theball is on top of the mouse.
(21:41):
There's very minimal armmovement here, and this is great
for shoulder pain and it's alsovery good in tight spaces.
The con is based on where theball is and what size it is.
We wanna be very hesitant torecommend one, just that
overloads the thumb, becausethat's an awkward position.
(22:02):
And remember how much we use themice in a typical day, thousands
of times a day.
That can cause overload in thethumb.
The real big thing here is thatyou can get some really neat
track balls.
The size of the ball matterswhen there's a bigger ball in a
track ball that encourages thewhole hand to be involved.
(22:23):
So that technically speakingshould be a little bit more
neutral and easier on the handbecause you're not.
Exerting all the force in thelittle tendon to move compared
with a small ball that canreally cause fingertip strain.
So be aware of that.
Next up I wanna talk about trackpads.
(22:44):
These are probably the most wellknown for Mac users and probably
the best setup for Mac usersbecause you can use those
gesture heavy tasks.
And these are also useful forgrip pain.
So if someone has some lateralepicondylitis issues with
gripping a mouse, then you mightwanna look at a track pad or
(23:04):
something related to a trackpad, maybe even a roller mouse,
'cause you're eliminating the togrip.
The limitations with a track padare related to fatigue with
dragging items on it and fingeroverload.
Next, let's talk about joystickmice.
Joystick mice is something thatwe don't see very often as
(23:25):
ergonomics professionals.
These are often classified asaccessibility devices, but these
can be very useful for somepeople.
The key thing here is that youwant to.
Encourage the person to engagethe arm and not the wrist.
'cause if they're just using thewrist, when you're using these
(23:46):
types of mice, then you canactually get into a lot of
awkward, not neutral postures inthe wrist.
the joysticks also really goodfor tremors and neurological
conditions and severe wristlimitation because it engages
the larger arm muscles.
The next thing I wanna dive intois matching the mouse to the
(24:09):
pain.
And the reason why this is thevery last piece of the puzzle is
that I didn't wanna give you thegoods at first.
I wanted you to go through thethorough ergonomics process so
we don't just jump to matchingthe mouse for the pain So the
best type of mice available forcarpal tunnel in my opinion, are
(24:31):
either the vertical mice or theroller mouse.
Or if you don't wanna look at mysolutions, it's switching to
left hand and nosing.
that may be even way better thana mouse because you're
eliminating all hazards on thatsegment of the body.
For tennis elbow, you wanna lookat a mouse that can reduce the
gripping.
So things like a track ballmight be really useful or a
(24:56):
vertical or central type ofdevice as well would be useful.
You might also wanna consideralternating hands as well for
shoulder pain.
You should be looking atwhatever's going on in that
reach, whether it's a long reachto go to type, or if that mouse
is positioned in a reallyawkward position.
(25:18):
You wanna fix that first.
That also includes externalrotation and how high the
workplaces.
A really good solution here isto look at a compact keyboard.
A compact keyboard eliminatesright-handed external rotation
with the mounting, You mightalso wanna look at central
pointing devices like a rollermouse because it's very much
(25:40):
closer to that person.
However, if you are gonna beusing like a roller mouse type
of device, it does increase thehorizontal reach to the
keyboard.
So something you have to weigh.
If shoulder pain is only on oneside of the body, like the right
hand mouthing arm, consider lefthand mouthing because that would
eliminate the pain.
And of course, you wanna do yourdue diligence to make sure that
(26:03):
all the workstation heights anddistances are within the
recommended parameters forarthritis.
Some of the best things that Ihave found are large contoured
mice that allows that hand tojust rest in like the hand shoe
type of mouse that's reallyuseful.
And you wanna look at devicesthat doesn't allow pinching.
(26:26):
So we're not really looking atthings that increases.
track balls can be really usefultoo for thumb pain.
If that person already has athumb pain and is using a track
ball, You might wanna considerusing a roller mouse or a
vertical mouse to make sure thatperson's in a better setup.
I just wanna reiterate howimportant work height and reach
(26:48):
distance.
Is in selecting the best type ofmouse.
In many cases, you might noteven need to recommend a mouse
because there's just so muchhorizontal reaching that's
required, or their neutral elbowheight is so much lower than the
work surface.
If you don't know what I'mtalking about with any of this,
(27:09):
then.
The Ergonomics Blueprint is areally good resource, and it
could be the good next step foryou.
Check out the show notes and howyou can get started with that.
Last but not least, a new mouseis a motor learning task, so
this is not gonna be like afairy godmothers magical wand.
(27:29):
It's going to take.
Three to seven days ofadaptation.
It could be a temporary drop inspeed.
However, over time there shouldbe an improve in comfort.
It's not gonna happenimmediately.
So what this means if someonequits after one day, you haven't
failed, they just haven'tadapted yet.
(27:50):
So you need to coach those folksto keep on trying it out.
I want you to try everythingyourself and build your own
ergonomics library of equipment.
So I wanna be real with youhere, and you probably already
figured this out.
There is no best mouse availableon the market today.
(28:11):
There is only the right mousefor the right person doing the
right task in the right setup.
thanks for listening to theBusiness of Ergonomics podcast.
If this episode helped you shareit with another person
considering getting intoergonomics or other ergonomics,
professional friends, becausethat helps to get the word out.
(28:32):
I'll see you in the next episodewhere we're going to be closing
off the three part series andI'm gonna be talking about the
best keyboards to recommend Youcan get started with office
ergonomics assessments.
Today, healthcare professionalsare seeing the potential and
opportunity to add officeergonomics assessments to their
(28:55):
practice and services.
Go to ergonomics help.com.
Slash begin to get the exactseven step process that works so
that you can get started todaywithout the confusion or
overwhelm.
Just head to ergonomicshelp.com/begin now.
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