Content, Community, and Algorithms w/ Johnathan Gibbs

What happens when your intersectional identity meets the social media algorithm?

This week on The Banh Mi Chronicles, we sit down with the incredibly insightful Johnathan Gibbs—a queer Black and Filipino content creator and founder of The Otaku Choir. Johnathan shares his unique journey, from navigating his Black and Filipino roots growing up in Mississippi to making his mark as a creator in NYC. We dive deep into the current social media landscape, how platform algorithms affect building content and genuine community, and what it truly means to create space for your authentic self online.

Bio:

Johnathan Gibbs is a trailblazing content creator who has been at the forefront of online media since 2008, when YouTube and digital platforms were still in their early days. As a Black Filipino American, Johnathan brings a unique perspective on life experiences at the intersection of Black and Asian identity, which he has shared fearlessly throughout his career. His past work includes hosting the award-winning podcast This QPOC Life, which offered nuanced and insightful views of the world through the lens of a queer person of color.

In 2020, during a time of heightened tension between Black and Asian communities, Johnathan founded the Black and Asian Alliance Network, fostering solidarity, advocacy, and understanding. His work has been recognized with the Brooklyn Free Speech Award for outstanding contributions to media and activism.

Today, Johnathan is the founder and artistic director of the NYC Otaku Choir, a first-of-its-kind community ensemble that blends anime, video game, and Asian pop culture repertoire with choral traditions. Through this project, he continues his commitment to uplifting marginalized voices, advocating for representation, and creating spaces that reflect the diversity of New York City.

With an unwavering dedication to community, artistry, and social justice, Johnathan continues to inspire and empower others—leaving an indelible mark on both digital and real-world stages.

IG: @ jonahsahn

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hey everyone, so my name is Randy Kim with the Bundy
Chronicles podcast and I'm excited to have this
conversation with a good friend,Jonathan Gibbs.
So who is Jonathan? So Jonathan is a trailblazing
content creator who has been at the forefront of online media
since 20 O 8, when YouTube and digital platforms were still in

(00:25):
their early days. Damn, that's kind of loud now.
As a Black Filipino American, Jonathan brings a unique
perspective on life experiences at the intersection of black and
Asian identity, which he has shared fiercely throughout his
career. His past work includes hosting
the award-winning podcast This QPOC Life, which offered a

(00:47):
nuanced and insightful views of the world through the lens of a
queer person of color. In 2020, during a time of
heightened tensions between black and Asian communities,
Jonathan founded the black and Asian Alliance Network,
fostering solidarity, advocacy and understanding.
His work has been recognized with the Brooklyn Free Speech

(01:07):
Award for outstanding contributions to media and
activism. Today, Jonathan is the founder
and Artistic director of the NYCOtaku Choir, a first of its kind
community ensemble the blends anime, video game, and Asian pop
culture repertoire with choral traditions.
Through this project, he continues his commitment to

(01:27):
uplifting marginalized voices, advocating for representation,
and creating spaces that reflectthe diversity of New York City.
With an unwavering dedication tocommunity artistry and social
justice, Jonathan continues to inspire and empower others,
leaving an indelible mark on both digital and real world
stages. So Jonathan, it feels great to

(01:49):
finally have a conversation withyou.
We have been following each other for the last couple years,
DM, ING each other, but we've honestly have never had a
conversation in real life or at least virtually.
And I'm really glad to have that.
I will say that how I knew Jonathan was a couple years ago
after the George Floyd and Brianna Taylor aftermath, I had

(02:14):
found black and Asian Alliance Network and I remembered how
vital it was because this was something that I was trying to
navigate through in my own community as an Asian, Southeast
Asian person. How do we talk about anti
blackness in our community? How do we address the distrust

(02:36):
that my community has with blackpeople and also how do I have
conversations with black people to also repair harm and trust
and trying to build understanding.
And this is something that has been ongoing for last several
years and and I think it's such an important space to have.
And, you know, I really found a lot of cool people through do

(03:00):
this network. And you know, Jonathan, I really
appreciate you being on and being able to shed more light
about this work and the importance of digital community
in this time right now. So the question is, how have you
been holding up in 2025 with only less than a few months
left? Well, first of all, thank you
for having me on your show. It was through the black and

(03:22):
Asian Alliance network that I heard about the Bond Meat
Chronicles because you promoted it as a way.
I think you were doing the work back then and I remember joining
like the the subscription list and like just getting to know
you through other people who lived in the same area and then
that network just really proliferating.
And now we've all kind of gone our separate ways to 2025 to

(03:44):
your question. And now I am yet in another arc,
if you will, of my unique form of resistance.
The podcast that you mentioned in that wonderfully written bio,
This QPAC Life was born in 2017 as a direct response to myself

(04:05):
to think of like, what am I going to do for the next 4 years
at that point? Because in 2016, Donald Trump
was elected president and then he was sworn in in 2017.
And at that point I was thinking, I need to do something
like, whoa, this is got a process this right?
And so I collected at the time three of my friends and we, we

(04:29):
made it happen and we did it every week.
And it was a labor of love. And then black and Asian
Alliance happened in response, as you said, to all of the
things that were happening in 2020 surrounding Black Lives
Matter, but also Stop Asian Hate, which rose out of that
back and forth and all around conversation with everybody.

(04:51):
And then Donald Trump was elected again in 2024 and
reinstated in 2025. And once again, my brain got to
thinking like, well, this year, like, what do I do now?
Do I start a podcast again? I've already done that.
And really, especially with digital media and digital
friendships and just the digitalspace and how it's being

(05:14):
manipulated. Gosh, I thought I need to make a
real life space. So I'm doing the otaku choir
now. It's an in, it's an in real life
space. But, and I'm, I'm just saying
this for the first time out loud, realizing this.
It is a real life space, but it's almost like the culmination
of everything that I've done before, from my personal life to

(05:38):
my professional organizing. It is kind of like the black and
Asian Alliance Network, but in real life.
It incorporates parts of my lifethat include singing.
I'm Southeast Asian, Filipino and black mix and like I both
communities, they love to sing. So like here we come.
And then it's also just in my mind, and we were talking about

(06:02):
this in the pre show, there was an era.
And I can't believe I'm saying it this way, but like back in my
day, But like back in my day, it's so funny because when you
say that, when you preempt something with that, you're
thinking, Oh yeah, I'm old Because like my parents used to
say that. And like, Randy, I feel like you
and I are around the same age when when our parents said stuff

(06:22):
like back in my day, they would it would usually be like, well,
back in my day, I had to walk 15miles to school.
And it's like, OK. But now we're in the era where
I'm the age of my parents when they were saying that.
But I'm saying back in my day, we didn't have algorithms, we
didn't have monetization, we didn't have the term influencer.
So I'm kind of looking to get back to that feeling of

(06:47):
community that the initial online rush gave us, minus all
of the incentive of like likes, clicks, subscriptions,
followers, money. There was a time when community
building online wasn't all aboutall of the fluff and the cloud
chasing. And so I'm kind of trying to

(07:09):
make a real life space where we can just kind of have that same
feeling of community. It's also lucky for me that I
live in New York City now. Like I've been here since 2012.
But, you know, for the people, especially in response to what
has happened with the United States and electing its leaders,
I really felt a need to create anew space.

(07:30):
Yeah, thank you so much for, youknow, sharing your background
and, and you what you, what brought you back into this
capacity? And this is something I've been
thinking about too. When I sunsetted my podcast like
2 years ago, I was already burned out.
And at that time, I felt people were shifting away from podcast
platforms with remote work disappearing and people getting

(07:52):
tired of the the the digital heaviness, digital
overconsumption. And I felt like it was the right
time. Plus I felt the podcasting lane
was a joke. It was starting to turn into a
laughing stock in my opinion. And I wanted to get away from

(08:12):
that. I was trying to do like, you
know, sub stock. And then when I thought about
this last election, I thought about how podcast and other
social media contents have been infiltrated by fringe right wing
folks who like the late Charlie Kirk to to entertain to Joe

(08:39):
Rogan. I was very alarmed by how much
it actually impacted their dailylife and also their daily views.
And that actually impacted the election in a way.
And I felt compelled to come back because I felt like we need
voices like ours to intercept harmful narratives and also to,

(09:04):
you know, create spaces for communities that are
marginalized, that are, you know, actively being erased.
And how do we come back? How do we count to that,
especially in this digital worldthat feels very uncertain and
the goal post keeps moving with whoever owns, you know, TikTok,
you know, to Meta right now withthe Zuck.

(09:27):
And I'm just very curious to know, like, how have you been
trying to get a good pulse on the work that you're trying to
do besides having a physical space?
But like how do you try to get, how do you try to navigate the
current landscape with the digital community?
Oh, gosh, that it's really toughbecause like you said,

(09:48):
especially in the wake of the well, not even the wake, but
leading up to the presidential election in 2024, you did see
like new tactics of going on podcasts on both sides, right?
Like, but it seemed to have worked well.
The results are there for all ofus to see.
And I'm not looking at, like, I just know what I saw as someone

(10:11):
who was kind of just watching from the side.
And everything I've heard is that like Donald Trump going on
those podcasts that he did at the direction of his son, who is
a Gen. Z Baron, You know, like, it
worked. Apparently, it worked.
I mean, I don't know what those young men were thinking, but

(10:32):
they must have felt seen. And they must have.
He must have mobilized that partof the voter base.
And so seeing all of that, it's kind of put me in the position
where you were a few years ago. Like you just said, I just want
to step back. So when I was thinking about
doing the next thing, it is moreof a real live space.

(10:54):
You, I mean, maybe I'm retreating right now, but I'm
also just protecting my own mental health and personal peace
because I had done so much in 2020.
And that's, it's really interesting that I say that out
loud because I'm thinking of another creator who I met during
that 2020 era on TikTok. And that's it's really through

(11:15):
him that I blew up because I, you know, there was a lot of
conversation. He's Asian and he made a misstep
at one point and I made a video saying like, Hey, people like he
made a misstep and everybody he got dragged and he was already
popular. I'm going to protect his
identity because this is all oldstuff.

(11:37):
But if if you know, you know, basically and we formed a
friendship that way online, we started D Ming each other.
We never like collaborated publicly.
But all of this to say that likeeven he, he had like 17,000,000
followers at one point and he stepped away from all of it and
now he's like pursuing being a chef.

(11:58):
Wow. And it's just, it's like, yeah,
wow. And it's like, but he was doing
so much and he had so many followers and more people would
view that as a retreat. Like, oh, you gave up.
You're not doing the work. You have to protect your own
mental health. We've got to rotate these people
in and out. You can't just have the same
people doing the same thing overand over again because it takes

(12:19):
a toll. So protect yourself.
Yeah, you got it. Like, I think something that
I've been thinking about is like, it's OK to step back
because honestly, like to be able to do this work, you also
have to live a life. You have to be able to absorb
it. And like when I was so burned
out like earlier this year from grief.
And then what mental health issues, Like once I learned how

(12:43):
to, as the kids will say, touching grass, which I do a lot
of, like I do a lot of nature trails, I'm into that.
And I realized that I was starting to become more of
myself. The, the curiosity started to
begin for me. I started traveling.
I actually met folks from the digital world to in real life.
And that's actually one of the beauties of the digital

(13:04):
community in the sense because I'll go to Vancouver, I'll have
a friend there. I'll go to Vietnam, you know,
hang out with another friend there or to Boston.
Like it's it, it gave me purpose.
But I also felt like I need to get away from that work.
And I can sense that that's whatyou had to do in order to come

(13:25):
back rejuvenated, but also to kind of like see things from a
different lens. And I think that's what we need
to do because as content creators, we also have to
evolve. We also have to like see the
pulse of what's going on, but also see what's going on within
ourselves and how we evolve. And we have to have time for
that reflection. And I think coming back to it is

(13:47):
a very therapeutic way of engaging with folks again.
And I think that is really interesting how, you know, bring
this all together because I think of the digital community
now, especially with monetization and the way it's
being or censorship is being or censorship or non censorship,

(14:09):
depending on the way you're looking at it is like really
become controversial. Like people speak out on
Palestine or getting punished, you know, online and also
getting doxxed. I'm curious about like how do
you have to like navigate safetylike with both community and for

(14:30):
yourself, especially, you know, as a marginalized voice, as
someone who has a big platform, like how do you try to try to
create a level boundary to, to protect your peace?
Yeah, I think it is exactly whatI've done and it's touching
grass, as you said, and taking all of my past experience and

(14:55):
putting it into something that allows other people to touch
grass, to disconnect for the screens, even if just for two
hours a week, Right. And again, maybe that seems like
retreating from the message of fighting the good fight.
But as I said, some people have to be substituted out sometimes.
When I was doing all that black and Asian Alliance Network work,

(15:20):
mind you, I had, as you said in the biography, I've been doing
this since 2008 in different forms, podcast vlogs, videos,
talking to people one-on-one, etcetera.
But at the same time, one of your past guests who was just on
here recently, Ed Doe, I met himand he was not doing the thing
that he was doing now, right? But now I've stepped out and he

(15:43):
has stepped in. And in a mighty way, he is like,
working at DC now. And like, if you all don't know,
like, go back and watch the episode with Ed Doe.
He is a beautiful young person. He is very smart, unrelenting,
gay, you know, So that's a shoutout to him outing me on your

(16:03):
podcast. But to clear the record, I'm
openly gay and queer and that it's just really funny.
But yeah, all this to say, jokesaside, I met Ed when he was
somewhere else, not in DC doing the thing.
I knew he had a fiery spirit andI was thinking like, OK, so

(16:23):
what's he going to do? And then he did it.
Now he's working at the government, like with people.
And here I am, I've taken a stepback from doing my type of work
and there's someone else watching this right now who is
like, OK, so when am I jumping in or there's someone watching
like, yeah, I did this back in the 70s and 80s and I'm taking a
break like go young people. So it's just a constant flux and

(16:46):
flow. But number one, you again have
to protect your own personal piece.
And that can last one year, three years, five years, however
it long it takes. And then you can always jump
back in and do what you need to do in in the moment.
Yeah, it's like you could take the Adele break or sometimes the
Sade break, which I'm still waiting on a tour for like the

(17:09):
past 15 years, so. You dated yourself because?
Yes, I know. I'm I'm 42 years old, so I'm a
geriatric millennial. I'm at the upper echelon of it.
We're not kids anymore. It's the.
Coolest thing for yourself? I'm 41 and I just call myself a
vintage millennial, so. Oh.
OK, OK, vintage millennial, geriatric millennial on my end.
I'm and I mean, the other day I was actually just doing a TikTok

(17:31):
challenge on Janet Jackson's YouWant This.
And that was that actually hurt a little more than I was hoping.
So that was not an easy choreography.
So check that video out if you get a chance and.
I remember that because my oldersister, so she was only, she's
only older than me like 5 years.No, I was like in fifth grade.
She was in high school, but specifically when we lived

(17:53):
together, she would watch, oh gosh, what channel?
Maybe it was BET and. Janet or the box?
I remember that one too. It was when that video had come
out, so it was like on every day.
That's the one where they're like driving in the desert.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I remember that video.
Early in the morning? Yeah, late in the evening.

(18:16):
So. I'm surprised that I'm I'm not
as big of a Janet fan just simply because I was like
exposed to her so much in that era.
It was ATM that was a big accent, all of that like, and I
mean, I'm, I'm not not a fan, but like really I don't stand
for anybody anyway. So I know, I know that music of

(18:38):
that era. I remember.
Brandy, I'm seeing her. I'm seeing her and Monica doing
that reunion tournament. Oh yeah, yes.
That was my first CD, by the way, that I purchased with my It
was the Boys, Mine, Brandy and Monica.
I should have known I was gay back then.
Mine wasn't Mariah Carey Daydream, Yeah.
Yeah, Mariah Carey is another one.
Yeah, and that new album is pretty hot right now, so I'm.

(19:00):
I did see that on TikTok of all places that yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of weird how nostalgia happens, but also
like celebrity stand up is got to be dying out as it should
because I feel like we have to reassess what is happening but
also what we are in. I don't want to.
I don't. Want to K pop?
Yeah. No, not even there.

(19:21):
I'm talking about in the area where we're talking about.
I mean, I don't want to invoke their wrath, but there are
certain people and I'm not talking about Beyoncé, the I'm
not talking about them. I'm talking about certain other
people. They are still standing hard.
And to bring it back to online community and culture, some of
those people find chosen family through those standoms and their

(19:44):
social relationships, and then some of those find the enemies
for life just by saying the wrong thing about the wrong
artist. Yeah, I know.
It's like if I say 11 critical thing of Taylor Swift or Mandel
Swift, these will just come at you, you know, and it's like
it's like y'all have to like reassess.
Don't. Don't get me, I didn't say

(20:06):
anything. Y'all have to like reassess your
parasocial relationships, you know that's the way I look at.
It well, the parasocial relationship to the star, but
then also, but just the relationships with each other.
And it even goes beyond just standom.
I'm noticing like there's a lot of activity going on online
where because you interact with each other every day and because

(20:29):
you critique this dynamic or youtalk about that issue or you're
part of, you think that you're part of the same politics that
like you have a community. And actually once again, for the
third time, you need to touch grass.
You need to just like disconnectand connect with people in real
life. It's just how I'm feeling
nowadays. Yeah, I think that's a very

(20:51):
relatable feeling. And, and to go back like in
time, like when you were growingup, when you grow up, when you
grew up, you know, being both black and Asian, I wonder what
was the experience like for you in both these communities and
how both of your families have viewed you as being multiracial.

(21:13):
I'm, I'm very curious to know like the dynamics of what you
had to experience early on and this idea of belonging and what
it looked like for you. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't for me.
It was really strange because and I've clocked this like I
clocked this in the time that itwas happening, but then I re

(21:34):
minded myself of like this fact that I'm about to tell you.
And it's that when I turned 9 years, so my parents are
divorced first of all. And so from like the age of 1 to
9, I lived with my mom and my Lola, so my grandma on my
Filipino side. And like I had a stepdad, he's
military. He was a black man, but he was

(21:55):
always away. Like this was during like the
early 90s. So there was a lot going on with
the military at the time where he would be gone for three
months at a time and things likethis.
So I grew up essentially in a fully Asian household from 1:00
to 9:00. And then somewhere around nine
years old, my dad was calling mymom, my biological dad was

(22:16):
calling my mom, and they were arguing on the phone.
And then I ended up living with him from like 9 to 18.
So literally half of my minor life was just foundationally
Asian. But then from 9 to 18, which are
like also some formative years, you know, junior high high

(22:38):
school, just black puberty. So black.
And then I moved to the South where you could either just be
white or black. And I don't look white.
And so you're, I'm black. And so from there in the black
community, people would be like,well, you're not all the way
black. You, you're mixed with
something, I can tell. And then I'd be like Filipino

(23:00):
and they'll be like, what's that?
And then I would have to tell them.
So it's just like, that was the experience.
So I'd always been aware of it. Maybe in the Asian upbringing,
like from the 1:00 to 9:00. I remember this one time when I
was in 4th grade, so right near the end before I moved in with
my dad, there were these black girls in my class and they asked

(23:20):
me like, what are you? No, I think they said, what
color are you? Or maybe they even told me that
I was black. And I took the question
literally. So I was like, I'm more like a
tan color. But that was the first time I
could ever remember thinking about like race and skin color.
And then as an adult, looking back on that moment and being
like, Oh, no, those, those girls, those black girls were

(23:44):
already aware of race and the dynamics of race.
And they saw someone who looked like them but didn't act or like
think about the thing in the waythat they did.
And they were testing me and they were trying to see if I was
aware. And at the time I wasn't, I was
just like literally thinking they were asking like, what
color? That's the question.
They were like, what color are you?
And I was like, oh, I'm tan. Like I was thinking of a tan

(24:07):
crayon, which is kind of too. I should, I think it should have
been brown. I should have said brown.
But I don't know. It's just really weird.
Yeah. I also like maybe in your
situation, like as you got olderor when you went to school, I'm
very curious about like the things that you heard about, you
know, both of your communities from your respective

(24:28):
communities, like how Asian folks felt about Black people
and how Black people thought about Asian folks and how that
in a way put you in this very weird spot.
I mean, I know I'm being very. No, no, no.
But I, I fully understand. And what I'm thinking about is
like during black and Asian Alliance Network, one of the

(24:52):
things that came up for me was when Asian people brought up the
movie Rush Hour as something that like a lot of people, first
of all, on neither side did anybody agree fully on anything.
But there were like these kinds of majority consensus amongst
the most loud people. And one of those conclusions was
that rush hour was problematic. And I'm, it's like, well, it was

(25:14):
like the 90s, like, of course everything was problematic and,
but, but there were people on both black and Asian side that
were like, but some of these jokes are still funny to this
day. And then a lot of people were
like, no, they're not. And they would never survive
today. And it's not cool.
And you shouldn't make those kinds of jokes.
And to me, when I like processedit, I was like, but they're just

(25:35):
jokes. Like black people don't like a
lot of black people don't even know a lot of Asian people
unless they live in the cities. So like these movies went all of
the around from urban to rural areas of the United States where
black folks live. And that was probably the only
time they got to see like a Jackie Chan and an interaction
between Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan.

(25:55):
And so those jokes that came out, you know, whatever they
would say, those are just jokes.But then I'm thinking like, but
you could use that same logic onlike Asian people who didn't
grow around grow up around blackpeople and then something
harmful being said about black people and then those Asian
people who had never been aroundblack people just running with
it or being like, it's just jokes.

(26:17):
And how would you feel like? So that moment, while at first I
was confused about like, why? Why would you think Russia hour
is bad? Now I understand it from those
people who were like, no, rush hour is not cool because I was
part of the oh, it's just jokes.So and it wasn't specifically to
like Filipino people. It was East Asians and it was

(26:40):
Jackie Chan in them. So, you know, maybe I even from
there, there's a little disconnect, right?
Because but then like on the opposite side of that, a black
person might not see the difference.
It's like, Oh, well, he calls himself Asian.
So like, wouldn't he be offendedif they're making fun of Jackie
Chan and people who look like Jackie Chan?
And it's like, well, technically, you know, we're

(27:01):
Southeast Asian. And even the people who look
like Jackie Chan and all of his folks make fun of the people on
my part of the Asian spectrum, the Southeast Filipino folks.
So there's a lot of dynamics from that group that a lot of
people we reminded and educated a lot of people about.
And one of them was that Asians Asian communities are very mean

(27:26):
to each other within Asia. And then as AI guess not in the
younger Asian American communities, especially if you
are East Asian American. Or maybe so I'd I'd I've never
lived that life. So I don't know what they say to
each other in their communities,but at least in like Asians in
Asia, I've seen it myself, like just going to Japan a few times

(27:48):
and then following Instagram pages were like Chinese tourists
get a very bad rap all over the world, but very specifically in
like Japan. So, you know, just there's a lot
going on in the world. I don't even know how I ended up
on that, but there we are. I landed there.
Yeah. No, I think it is.

(28:09):
It is a hard dynamic to like really dice suck and pull apart
because there's like so many different layers to navigate
through. And, and I think that is
something that I have been trying to understand more of the
last, especially the last several years.
And when I look at my upbringing, I grew up in
predominantly fairly white community that was fairly
conservative for a long time. And I thought about how I had to

(28:34):
unpack my own biases and my own,like, homophobia that I was
internalizing, and also how I thought about even different
racial communities, even within my own community that I was very
distant from and how much white adjacency was really affecting
me. And I'm very curious about like,
like as you got older, what was your own connection to both

(28:59):
communities in terms of trying to find spaces and, you know,
whether it's cultural, whether it's, you know, just having
friends that look like you or they're part of the Asian
diaspora or the black communities.
I'm, I'm very curious to know what that has looked like in
terms of your own community and and trying to find that

(29:22):
belonging. Yeah.
So having grown up then in the South with my dad's side of the
family and it's all black and all this very specifically in my
very rural part of Mississippi, we had, well, it wasn't in

(29:43):
hindsight, like the opportunity is endless.
You can go anywhere, but most ofthe people that go to college
there, it's such a small place that they first go to the
Community College for two years and then they go to a
university, whether it's Mississippi State University or
Ole Miss, the University of Mississippi.
That's just the pipeline that they had developed because they

(30:04):
all felt like, oh, we come from a small town, so we can't really
handle big college yet. So we have to go to the
Community College, then go up tothe big school.
So my math teacher actually in my senior year was like, have
you ever considered going to this particular college?
And I had no idea what an HBCU was, a historically black
college university was. But there was one in

(30:27):
northwestern Mississippi called Rust College outside of Memphis,
TN. And that's where I went to
because that math teacher told me about it and I looked into it
and got a full ride scholarship for my undergrad.
And then so like even then I wasamongst all black people again
with some like South Asian teachers and whatnot.

(30:50):
But it was at that point when I was like in college, especially
later on, so I had been around black people and same questions
of like, hey, we know you're black, but like you're mixed
with something. And like, so just having that
constant explanation. And now at this point, people
knew where the Philippines was. And so they'd just be like, oh,
yeah, he's cool. He's our Blasian friend and all

(31:12):
this stuff. And he's, he's one of us and da,
da, da, da. And so there was no need for me
to ever, ever to question my blackness.
But like, as this kept on going on, I was like, wait a minute,
like it's almost like dishonouring your mom because
like, I need to tell people thatI'm also Filipino.
Like they need to know because my mom is here.
Like she's a real person. So like at when I was 23, so

(31:35):
that was 2008. So if you do the math, you know,
but I already said I was 41, youknow, that's when I really
started pushing it, especially as online culture began.
And I, I remember and This is why in my BIOS on Instagram and
social media, I say I'm the first Blasian YouTube.
Because when YouTube started like content creators, when it
wasn't even called content creators, but people were just

(31:56):
doing vlogs and talking about their life.
I was looking for other people who were like, I was using
keywords like Blasian, black, Asian, black, Filipino, black,
you know, like this and that. And I would find users that
might use the word black Blasianor whatever, like to make
comments, but no actual people making vlogs or videos about
being this mix of a person. So I called myself the first

(32:19):
Blasian YouTube. I do know that there were other
websites out there at the time, like blasians.com a long time
ago. Like this is when I was in
junior high that talked about Afro Asians and like different
people. But they were just websites that
collected like the people, like the movie stars and people.
So Tiger Woods was on there and there were other people from a
long time ago. But yeah, that.

(32:43):
So my work is kind of just been like, OK, I've always been
recognized as one thing. And but then people would see
that there was something else there and I'd have the
opportunity to talk about it, but it was always just that.
And I was like, wait there. But there's a whole parent over

(33:03):
here who is being misrepresented.
So I have to let you know, you know, and, and, and there's a
joke. I mean, you can look this up on
X or Twitter or whatever. If you just search for blazins,
it's always going to the most interactive thing is going to be
aside from NSFW stuff from certain people, you'll see like

(33:25):
jokes. It's like, oh, Blazians always
have to let you know they're Blazian.
And like within our Blazian circles, I will let you know
that we all agree it is. We see those jokes, and it's not
that we have to let you know, it's that you all are always
asking us. And so we're always having to
explain, quote what we are. So yeah.

(33:48):
That is very interesting becauseI know when you talk about like,
you know, being having to be a pioneer in the YouTube realm,
I'm it has, it has got to feel very frustrating, you know, to
be at the at the to be not amongpeers that look like you and

(34:09):
that's or that share a lot of these experiences that you have
to them. Did you find that very difficult
to navigate with other content creators during the early stages
of, you know, YouTube, Myspace, Facebook?
I don't think I did. I think at that point, and even
now, I kind of realized like, it's not that we were, quote,

(34:29):
special, but we were different. We were the person that elicited
the response of, oh, well, what are you like?
And then that trained us to haveto explain ourselves whether we
like it or not. And then that just became the
role. And did do I often think like,
oh, well, what would it be like if I were just quote,
monoracially black or monoracially Asian?

(34:52):
Like if I was just one, how would that work?
Like, I don't think I would havethe same personality that I have
because it is trained and exercised through having to talk
to people about things that people usually don't like to
talk about, like a race. Like, oh, that's such a hard
topic. And like, I can just talk about
it with people and I usually bring it up and maybe it's not a
like I figure out like you can'tdo this at work, but like even

(35:16):
at in corporate life, you can't even like mention your age.
So it's like these are just things that you learn as you
work in Corbo in the Corbo timeline, I guess.
But all that to say that that particular muscle is trained.
And so I couldn't imagine being just this or just that because
the ghost that's in the shell isformed by the shell, the

(35:40):
perception of the shell, so. Around 2020, after what happened
with George Floyd and Brianna Taylor, like from my own
experience, like at that time, Iused to like share a lot of
political posts on Facebook and sometimes Instagram.
And there was one particular moment that really got me, which

(36:02):
was learning about Officer Tao among police officer.
And I had this conversation withMichelle Kim from my episode.
And when I brought this up abouthis own complicity, complicity
and officer and George Floyd's death, like among friend of mine

(36:22):
basically came after me in the post saying that, you know, like
this is not racism. And also he felt this
defensiveness because in the monk community, they are very
invisible in the Asian American narrative.
And I think that for him, he started punching down.
And so this turned into a melee because other blazing friends of

(36:43):
mine and other communities just jumped all on and turned into a
melee. And I realized how difficult was
to untangle and to moderate thisconversation.
And, you know, people were very hurt, you know, in that thread.
And I'm curious, like, like, from your experience, when these

(37:03):
issues, especially within both of these communities come into
contact, especially with the Stop Asian hate and also what
happened with the Black Lives Matter movement?
How was it like navigating theseconversations from a digital and
physical space? Yeah, I mean, one of the things
that came out of Ban BA and Black Asian Alliance Network for

(37:28):
me, I, I often thought about like the ladder of privilege,
You know, the higher you up on the ladder determines whether
you're punching up on the ladderor down on the ladder.
So you mentioned punching down and this person felt like, well,
they're a part of an invisible community within a minority
community that is somewhere on aladder.

(37:49):
But I remember learning about racial angulation and that like,
maybe white people are up here because that's higher up on the
ladder of privilege. And then black people are all
the way at the bottom. And like Asians are neither
black or white. They're like over here.
And so it makes a triangle. It just means that like being
over here gives you a unique perspective.

(38:11):
I mean, then going from triangle, I was like, OK, well,
what about like a matrix? Like you've got AX axis and AY
axis, right? So like, you may be a cisgender
man, but you're black, so you lose points.
You may be black and a woman, but you're not trans.
And so then there is a black trans woman, and it's like black

(38:32):
trans women. I mean, black CIS women can
oppress black trans women. And then like, where does that
fall with Asian people and blackpeople And then white people,
Like where do they fall in that?Like what if you're disabled and
trans, but you're white and you're going against a black
trip? Like, so like there was a lot of
having to think about these dynamics and ultimately it's

(38:55):
ultimate. And I, I think like a lot of
people saw this going on in 2020and like just tapped out and
like this is stupid. They thought it was dumb.
And I'm like, no, I like thinking about like all these
intersections because I am intersectional.
I come from like, you know, a whole bunch of different
intersections that impact me, but I still have privilege over
certain people. So anytime anything like that

(39:16):
happens, and I don't know the exact, I mean you explained it
for me. And so this is someone that was
defensive over Officer Tao. I would just want to like really
process that kind of like how weare talking about it, at least
face to face, not just in typing.
And so that is like that whole era was just a lot of typing

(39:37):
essays back and forth and being mad and and really building up
and either confirming your bias or like confirming stereotypes
in your mind that you didn't like or whatever.
Like This is why I want to get back to real spaces.
That's why I'm doing the choir. That's why I feel like all of
that work is being put into something where we again, for
now the fourth time, touch grass.

(39:57):
Even in those conversations thatare difficult, I feel they
should be handled in at least a digital face to face way.
And as as AI, I've just been reminded, we did have like zoom
meetings in in black Asian alliance network so that we
could talk out loud because as we all know, a lot of tone and

(40:18):
intention is lost in the text. So.
Yeah. And there's also a performative
aspect to it, like, like, like when I realize like when you're
posting or when you're actually responding to an argument,
there's this like this internal pressure to try to make yourself

(40:39):
not feel stupid, I guess. And I think that there's, this
is something I've been guilty ofbecause like, am I capable of
having a very eloquent conversation about this?
Am I able to, you know, think ofevidence and and not talk out on
my ass? I, I think that there's also
this level pressure of also trying to, I guess be right, but

(41:05):
also to, to also not humiliate ourselves in some way.
There's a lot of ego. There was a lot of ego back then
too. And as far as like the way this
digital community spaces have been, I know that you've been,
you know, working with your choir group, but also like
working on more, more organic meetups.

(41:28):
I'm very curious about where thestate of digital community
spaces are now, especially with Facebook groups and with, I
don't know, I'm trying to think what other social media
platforms just put it out there that are being, you know,
controlled by capitalistic demons or capitalistic voters is

(41:51):
what they call them and how theyalso like turn the tables but
also work to really break communities apart.
I mean, I saw what Mehta, I knowthat you brought this up in band
that they are eliminating the community chat and it kind of
forced you to make a pivot to Discord.
So I'm very curious about what you're seeing and what does that

(42:16):
mean in terms of digital communities as a whole?
Yeah, I saw this happening a long time ago.
Well, I should say I've seen moves like this from a long time
ago. We're going back to the back in
my day thing. So whereas, you know, your
parents would say back in my dayand they would say something
like I had to walk 15 miles to school, for me, it's back in my

(42:38):
day. The Internet was a place where
everyone had their own space, literally.
There was a place called Myspace, but then aside from
Myspace, there were like independent websites that you
could host and like have a page about.
Like if you like birds, it wouldbe there and you could be the

(43:01):
person that talks about birds. Or if a Final Fantasy 7 came out
the video game and you enjoyed the music, you could post your
Midi's of the soundtrack. There were blog websites and
things. But then oh, and then YouTube
came along and YouTube had a whole lot of customization.
You could put your own banner upthere.
You could put a lot of information in the sides.

(43:22):
You could put a picture. And then at some point around
like 2009 or 10, they like kind of just sanitized all of it.
I was like whitewashed it. It all looks so boring and flat.
Like the they removed all the customization and then they
started adding monetization. And now Fast forward to 2025 and

(43:43):
you're really having to work with the algorithm.
Everybody knows about the algorithm.
What do what? How does the algorithm drives
how you do content? You get rage bait,
misinformation, and so we live in this era where it's just doom
scrolling on 2 second attention spans and people working to be
so outlandish that you stop in that 2 seconds and then they get

(44:04):
your attention and it's not healthy and it's not good.
You know, we came into this thing especially I'm one month
apart from Mark Zuckerberg. So when he made Facebook, he
made it for people like you and me who were in college at that
time. And we looked at those younger
kids and we were like, wow, lookat them.
They're going to come up with all this technology and like

(44:25):
they're going to, you know. And then they did come up with
the technology and now look at them, Them and their kids cannot
socialize in school. They can't hold eye contact that
hold Gen. Z stare thing.
I haven't experienced it myself,but the way everybody has, I've
been talking about it, I would not be able to handle just like
asking a question and someone just blankly stare at me.

(44:48):
And then I have to help you be like, OK, so the next thing you
should ask me is like, do I wanta napkin or something?
Like then that's not too much toask.
It's making me sound old. But like the technology did not
turn out being what we thought it would be.
And we need to roll it back. Not in a weird authoritarian
1984 way, but like we need to roll it back for our own mental

(45:09):
health. And I think that there's also
like younger people that have decided to stop using Facebook
or like get rid of TikTok or like, which is which I think can
be very helpful and like figure out what it is that I need
because I have lived my entire existence online.

(45:30):
How can I break from that? You know, like I've seen people
coming back with the old Polaroid cameras and the and
the, and the, the old Nokia phones, the phone phone.
But is that, is that, is that anything new?
Because I feel like people always like vintage stuff and
it's just that we've gotten so old that stuff that was from
when we were young is now considered vintage, which is

(45:52):
kind of scary, so. I know, I know.
It's it's kind of wild because every time I think of the 2000s,
it's like, Oh yeah, it's 20 plusyears ago.
And when I used to do college talks about my podcasts, I would
often start by saying, and this,this is going to age me once
again. But like I would tell them that

(46:16):
you guys weren't even born when I was an undergrad.
And I'm just like, damn, I really need to take a nap.
I really need to sit down and. I'm just like, it's funny
because like I'm in a so the choir that I run, it's like
anime and video games and then Asian pop and folk music.
But like specifically around theanime and video game talk,
people will be like, do you knowthis song?

(46:36):
Like it's from this anime? And I'll be like, no.
And they'll be like, yeah, it was so long ago 2010.
And I'll be like, oh, so you know, I watched Sailor Moon in
the 90s and they're like that night.
Like they'll know Sailor Moon, but like somehow there's this
weird thing that like the 90s was what, 30 years ago?
Now it's just Jesus crazy. I know it's kind of weird.

(46:56):
And also the oldest Gen. Z is right hitting thirty.
That is also hard to fathom, right?
It is it's it's it's pretty wildto me and I wonder about the
conversations these days, especially in the digital
community of trying to still engage in safer digital spaces.

(47:20):
I'm very curious about like, what are platforms are you
trying to utilize that gets awayfrom matter.
I know we had just talked about I had just brought up Discord as
an. And that is the one right now,
like that's where I spend most of my time as Discord and
specifically because of how we organize our choir.
But even with Black Asian Alliance Network, we had a
Discord. We still have a Discord
actually, and because of that Facebook Meta update where

(47:43):
they're taking away the community chats, I encouraged
everyone to move over to Discordand we had a few people.
The thing is, 2020 ban, like Black Asian Alliance Network
used to be like every single day, multiple conversations a
day, lots of moderation because it was a hot button issue.

(48:05):
And I got interviewed for like news shows and by BuzzFeed News
and like all these different places.
And a through line for me then was like, I see that the
spotlight is on me now because of the fact that everyone else
in the world cares about black and Asian relations right now in
terms of how the communities intersect.
But I want you all to know that I've been doing this for 12

(48:27):
years before the spotlight came around, and I'll continue to do
it long after. All that to say, Black Asian
Alliance now doesn't have a lot of activity.
And so even in announcing to everyone in the group, hey,
we're moving over to Discord because the community chats are
gone, it didn't yield a lot of motion.
And really it seems like the notjust the media spotlight, but

(48:49):
the personal interest has waned from both Black communities and
Asian communities that said thatthey were here for that
alliance. This is not an indictment on
anybody, but like, like, I hate,I would hate for it to take
another huge crisis or awful thing happening for us to then
have to come back to the table and talk about issues between

(49:11):
black and Asian communities. But it just seems like that's
human nature. I think that is a very, it's a
very, it's a, it's a reality that we do have to face.
Like, you know, when things get out of the news cycle, you know,
people get away from it, and then some tragedy happens that
forces us to have this conversation, this reckoning, so

(49:32):
to speak. And I'm wondering about how the
black and Asian communities thatyou've been talking to navigate
with this Trump administration with ICE, like going after a lot
of Asian communities. We saw we have one with the
Hyundai plant in Georgia. And also, you know, Black people
still getting murdered and also,you know, dealing with the

(49:57):
horrible racist. I'm not even going to mention
their names because they're not worth bringing it up.
But like threatening black politicians like Jasmine
Crocker, which who I do worry about.
And I wonder what the conversation has been like.
But also like among black and Asian folks that really lean

(50:18):
towards the Trumpism, which it'sstill very baffling to me, but
it's it's a conversation that always frustrates and fascinates
me. Yeah, I wouldn't.
I do not have my finger on the pulse of those conversations.
So I am equally as ignorant to whatever it is they're saying
over there. Yeah, I think that I think that

(50:40):
is a lot to ask for, too, because it's like, you know,
we're seeing the onslaught of communities being attacked.
And I think about like, what needs to happen?
How are we going to move the needle?
I think this is still an ongoingconversation that I'm trying to
get a pulse on, right? Yeah, but I think that these are

(51:00):
all things that are happening, that it's going to take another
tragedy, tragedy specifically with black and Asian people to
then have us come back and starttalking.
And then they'll be like, we'll remember when the Hyundai plant
thing happened. That was an example of ICE
attacking Asians. And then people are going to be
like, remember when right after that there was a young person, a

(51:23):
young man hung at Delta State lynched That's and nobody talked
about it from the Asians I like.So it's just going to be a lot
more of that. A lot of what about isms?
It's it's a lot of that it happened.
It's a lot of caring in the moment and raising your example
in an argument to win the argument over another person

(51:46):
when we could have been talking about these things the whole
time. What do you think is a good way
to softly navigate like these? Fire button issues like like.
I think you just have to be trueto yourself.
I think a lot of people came to the table and then I just had
like, I have to question the fact that like, so many people

(52:08):
came to the table, including people I still talk to to this
day. But they don't, you know, when
something happens, they're not aware of it.
Like, they don't know that two people were lynched right around
the same right after the murder of Charlie Kirk on college
campuses. It's like it's we're not
sounding the alarm, but like black people know that's
circulating around black communities.

(52:30):
But I don't see any Asian peopletalking about it.
And at the same time, I don't see black people being up in
arms about the Hyundai plan. And like, aside from those being
like Korean people, the fact that they even did that in the
1st place to, to worry about what's going on in the country.
And then there are black people who do care about and there are
Asian people who care about it from that perspective, but it's

(52:52):
not enough. I just don't see enough
happening. And honestly, with everything
that's going on in the country, all of the things that could
incite a thing, an issue for us to come back to the table to
talk about, I don't think that people are like being aware
enough of the things that could cause the disaster for us to

(53:14):
come and talk, if that makes sense.
It's kind of like they, they, the administration are just
doing a thing and then testing it and see how far they can go.
Are the people going to get mad?No.
OK, well, now let's ratchet it up a little bit.
But also I have to say that I'm talking in my own personal

(53:35):
opinion and not on behalf of anyorganization at this point, so.
Yeah, yeah. And also like a person that I
also want to shout out who is also blazing is on my on my dear
friend of Rohan Zoli from the blaze in March.
And also like, I have seen theirwork and also like prioritizing
the intersecting identities of the, of the blazing community,

(53:59):
disability, deaf, low vision, blind, and so forth.
And I think that it's great to see these communities really
have their voice or at least making their voices heard,
because I think that these are narratives that are often lost
or not ever talked about. And, and, and we and, you know,

(54:21):
like in amazing conversation, italways seems like, and please
correct me if I'm wrong, but when we also think of the
Beijing community, it feels likea Unicorn, but it really isn't.
It never really was, you know, and I think that's something
that we have to like, you know, really name and also think about
where black and Asian solidary has really existed.
I mean, you thought like, I think about Yuri Kochiyama and

(54:44):
Malcolm X and Kochiyama. Kochiyama's family is
multiracial, both black and Asian.
Thinking about Grace Lee Boggs and James Boggs and their
solidarity. Do you take a lot of inspiration
from like some of these movementleaders that have actually been
bridging a lot of these, you know, divides and also also

(55:08):
working towards the liberation work?
Not really. I didn't even know who those
people were before I became an adult because I wasn't aware.
And as I started coming into myself and realizing my own
identity, you know, I kind of laid the path for myself on how
to constantly explain who I am and what I am.

(55:31):
But I didn't look back to like other black and Asian couples or
black and Asian people. They are, they are examples of
other Blasian folks or relationships.
But we're all different. So we all have different.
Like, we're not monolithic. So I didn't feel the need to,

(55:52):
like, study these other people just because, like, honestly,
it's just not. Those names, especially in the
ban era of 2020, were used as buzzwords so much that like, OK,

(56:12):
they were who they were, right? And they are examples in the
narrative history timeline. But more importantly, when you
have someone like a Rohan Zoli who makes the Blasian March or a
Jonathan Gibbs who does the black and Asian Alliance
Network, again, these are placeswhere the conversation can
happen. We are two more points on that

(56:35):
history, that timeline, But nobody's going to pay attention
to not me, Rohan or Grace Lee orYuri and Malcolm until something
happens to the point that they need to be used as a prop, to
talk, as a talking point in a conversation that you're not
going to have until it's absolutely necessary.

(56:56):
Yeah, and I mean, that's what's been the most frustrating,
especially when we're only like 9 months into this Trump
administration and it's only a matter of time till we see more
tragedies unfold and that reallyget us to the table and what
does the next course of action gets taken as a result of what's

(57:17):
going on. So I think this is AI think this
is a clearly an ongoing conversation, but it's also like
a good way to like check the temperature to check the pulse,
like right now of where it stands.
And I'm also very curious about like other forms of like

(57:37):
self-care for you. And also like we talked about
touching grass. We talked about like, you know,
your choir group, but like, whatother ways are you like,
learning to unlearn things that were a big part of your
practice, but you're like, you know, stepping away from or at
least trying to do things differently that that benefit

(57:59):
your own health. Oh yeah, I mean, I'm still using
all the technology, but I'm realizing like I think I
literally I'm looking at my other monitor and I'm going to
guess I have 30 tabs open right now.
So like all of these tabs are going towards my organizational
no work with the choir. However, I still disconnect from

(58:19):
that to do like other stuff online and what I'll realizes
like if I'm on meta or if I'm onX or blue sky or Instagram
scrolling on the desktop versiontoo long, then I'll be like, OK,
this is a time sync like and or like if I get an argument with
someone on threads, I'm just like, Nope, I'm not going to
waste my time getting flustered over this.

(58:41):
I could literally be doing something else in these other 29
tabs that has to do towards thatis productive towards the work
that I like to do and that will yield something tangible and
real. So it's because I could easily
see how like having 30 tabs openon one project means that now
you're you've leaned too much inthis other direction.

(59:01):
But it's better than the alternative, which is wasting
energy on people who won't listen and who only selectively
listen and are performative activists.
Yeah, I also think about my own relationship with technology
these days, especially now that I'm getting back into podcast.
Like all of a sudden, next thingyou know, I already have a

(59:21):
YouTube page now, which I didn'thave prior to that.
I'm now doing YouTube shorts, adding more on TikTok.
I also, you know, do silly dances or blow bubbles on
TikTok, if you could believe that.
And like, I have a weird relationship with social media
because I feel very unbothered most of the time.

(59:42):
Like, yes, do it. When I doom scroll, I get
furious, I get very annoyed. And I also don't watch the news
anymore. I don't do traditional media
outlets anymore because I, there's multitude of reasons for
that. But but now that I'm also on sub
stack, that also adds to it because there's also a social
media component to sub stack as well.

(01:00:04):
So there's so I feel like I've been very much on this past
month, which can be a big dopamine rush, right?
And but I think like, I've also learned to have a sense of
humor. And also to entertain.
And I think that's the ESFP in me.
Like, I do love to entertain. I do love to be provocative

(01:00:27):
sometimes. And I don't know, it's like, I
don't know if that's the feelingthat you've also had in your
relationship with digital media.But like, do you find yourself
being incredibly silly just to try to break the ice?
But also, like post because like, yeah, I really want to,
you know, show that, you know, joy really does exist.

(01:00:48):
Yeah. I mean, I think that we've
gotten to the point now that youreally can't do that if you want
to be successful in social mediabecause the algorithm determines
that people who watch your stufflike that, you had political
commentary or a silly dance. But as soon as you are a silly
dancer and then do political commentary, it kills your
engagement because. It does.
I didn't sign up for this and vice versa.

(01:01:11):
So even like sticking to this question, but going back to one
of your previous questions aboutnavigating today in 2025, it's
it's back to the algorithm. It's like detached from all of
it. Just all my online work now that
I have said this out loud, like I'm looking at the 30 tabs.
It's all for the purpose of an in real life thing.

(01:01:35):
And I really hope that like people you're in my age and then
younger, just start pushing for more real life things such as
Apple peak picking season. Go on a hike, walk every day, go
somewhere. Even if you live in a rural
community. Just walk outside.
Don't spend all your if. If you have a YouTube video that

(01:01:55):
you could watch, you could do itwhile walking outside.
You can listen to it on your headphones and walk.
Yeah, that's what I do too. Like I download all Trails apps,
which is like, no, my favorite thing to do because I, I got to
take a look at different trails and see which one I could get to
choose. And, and I learned how, yeah,
how algorithms, like I've had togive up on that.

(01:02:17):
It's like, because I'm going to be all things like I'm not going
to stick to politics only. I'm also going to do concerts.
I'm also going to do dancing. I'm going to do a lot of fun
stuff along with the serious content that I that I add into
it and I know the. Method nowadays is to have
multiple channels. Then I mean, that's always been
it. But that's a lot.

(01:02:38):
I mean, that's a lot. It's also what you have to do if
you want to be on the good side of the algorithm.
And I've never been there. I'm a I'm a very intersectional.
I'm I'm a lot of things and I could never just buckle down on
one thing. Now, when I did buckle down on
one thing, which was Karen videos, I blew up.
Like it really worked. And I was like, so this is what
I have to be, is the Karen videoguy for the rest of my life or

(01:03:01):
one thing for the rest of my life.
And I just can't do it. Even now today I like will post
a choir video and it'll go viralwith 1,000,000 views.
And then the next day I'll talk about why I'm so annoyed with
Gaijians right now because how they're always chasing after
white men or whatever. And like any other year, any
other year that would have takenoff and those videos have taken

(01:03:23):
off. But then I'll pivot to choir and
then the people who are interested in hearing me talk
about Gaijians are then like, what?
What's this choir stuff like? So again, it's just like, but I
do see content creators out there, specifically other
Geishans who talk on about Geishan stuff.
And they'll, they can talk aboutlike their dates and their
trysts on one channel. And then the very same person

(01:03:45):
will have a different channel for talking about political
stuff as that same Geishan. And I'm just like, OK, good for
you, girl, you have the time to set that up and do all that and
maybe I should take notes from you all.
Yeah, like for an old guy like me, it's like more like just
take it or leave it, you know, it's.
That's how I felt, I feel and I've always felt, but but that
is really just the playbook. Got to separate it and and like

(01:04:08):
more moralistically, there's just also something like how
hard is it to just make a new account and then do it Like it's
not. But like to me it's just like
I'm not parsing myself out like this is me.
Right, exactly. And I think to like have these
multiple accounts, it's like, OK, I feel like I have to have
all these different mindsets. Like for me, it's like, you
know, take it or leave it. And I think that I get to a

(01:04:32):
place, especially where I don't feel like I need the people,
please. Like if people like my content.
And I feel like, I mean, I, I'm being very biased.
Here. But it's not the fact that they
don't like your content. It's the fact that some other
unseen hand is giving it to themor taking it away.
Right? It's not.
It's so right. Yeah.
Yeah. I really appreciate.

(01:04:52):
I really appreciate this brief deep dive on to it.
And as we start to kind of like wrap up, like what do you have
plans for the next couple of months and in preparation for
2026? After all this in real life work
I've been doing with my choir, in November I'm going to Japan
from the 6th to the 23rd, takinga vacation.

(01:05:14):
Good for you. And then we are back in choir
rehearsal, January 2020, sixth, so they have time off.
I don't have to do a bunch of choir stuff.
I'm in another choir. I don't run that quiet.
I'm a member of that choir, the Desoft Choirs, and we're singing
with Andre Bocelli at Madison. Square, get out of here.
Get out of here. In mid-december, so I'll be

(01:05:35):
looking forward to that. Then after that I am going to be
quiet. Maybe I'll cook for some
friends, bring in the new year, maybe go to a jazz concert
because I like doing jazz around.
Especially we have Wynton Marsalis, He's like one of the
jazz greats, living jazz greats here in New York City, and he
always does something around Christmas time and holiday
season, so in New Year's. So I want to do that.

(01:05:58):
And then just replenishing and then getting back out there and
continuing to createspace for people to disconnect if they
need to. That's actually I was wondering
if you could talk a little bit more about your choir, like, you
know, the music that you share, because I know you incorporate
anime and I'm curious like to get a good sense of like the

(01:06:19):
structure and, you know, and theand and the group and also also
the relationship it has with other with other partners.
Yeah, I mean, it is our first year, so the universe is really
aligned on a whole lot of things.
First of all, if you know choir,then you know that like you have

(01:06:39):
Sopranos, Altos, tenors and bass.
And if you're going to do something like this, you never
know who you're going to get. And from the jump, like we got
an equal, almost an equal amountof each section because, you
know, as a choir person, if you know, you could get lopsided
numbers. You can have too many Sopranos,
too many Altos, too many sopranoAltos and no tenor basses,
something like that. It it balances like 14 of each

(01:07:02):
section. These people have persisted
through the whole year we're giving our concert.
But it really is the culminationof all my past work.
I really felt like like Asian folks, especially in 2020, there
were like these concerns of likenot being seen in this and that.

(01:07:23):
And I'm like, hey, I'm blazing. Like, I come from a long history
of organizing and community building.
Why don't I do something for like Asian folks to like center
and uplift Asian artistry, musicand tradition.
And the greatest thing is I'm not choosing a side because I am
a vessel of both of these things.
I have these both of these histories in me, the

(01:07:44):
organization and the community building, which is not exclusive
to black people, right? Other like Filipinos and other
Asian folks have done community building as well.
But I have that personal history.
And then also seeing people in digital spaces making these
complaints and saying, and I'm like, OK, well here, here's a
thing that you can do. And here's the thing where you

(01:08:05):
will be centered and uplifted and everybody else will be an
ally. So this is an Asian choir, but
it has all sorts of people and it really represents the
diversity of New York. We do music from anime, old and
new, video games, old and new. But I have a bias towards Final
Fantasy music and then also likepop Asian music from various

(01:08:25):
Asian communities. We haven't done any South Asian
yet. We haven't done any SE.
We haven't done any Vietnamese, but we're we're singing Tagalog
this semester. Japanese, Korean and Chinese are
Mandarin and like for he has a choir person I've never like.
Only one other time in my life, and it was only in the last
three years, had I sung in a concert where all of those

(01:08:47):
languages were featured. Otherwise, Asian people and like
first of all, black people in choirs like choral societies,
unless you're very specifically talking about like a black
American spiritual choir or a gospel choir, like where it is a
majority black. If you're talking about like
western classical choral music in those spaces, maybe one or

(01:09:08):
two 3-4 black people out of like50 and even less Asian people.
But now we have like a choir that sings choral music in the
form of anime video games and then like stuff that you would
sing in high school or college choir, but by Asian composers or
like Asian like folk tunes and things like this.

(01:09:30):
So really like we're having, I think by the time this comes
out, we will have our we will have had our first concert in
early October. But there should be a live
stream available on YouTube. And so, yeah, I've been wearing
the shirt the whole time. Otaku choir.
Otaku of course being a Japaneseword, but we are a Pan Asian
choir. Nice.
Thank you so much for sharing all of that.

(01:09:51):
I mean, this sounds incredibly exciting and I haven't tuned in
yet, but I would absolutely check it out.
And last question I do have is, if you were to talk to yourself
back in 2008, what will you say to that, Jonathan?
That if you really want to blow up in this market, you got to
separate it. I know you don't want to

(01:10:13):
separate it, but make separate accounts for the different
things that you want to talk about and stick to it.
That is absolutely what I would tell myself.
I think we're asking from like asocial media perspective, so.
Yeah, and thank you so much for being on here.
It feels great to have you, you know, talking about your work

(01:10:33):
but also being able to reflect. So I really appreciate you being
on and much love to you and the work that you're doing.
And you too. I'm so glad that you're back.
I'm glad to have met you. It's funny in the pre show you
said that this is the first timewe're verbally speaking to each
other. And I'm like, that's impossible.
But then it's it is that parasocial thing where we've

(01:10:55):
seen each other's videos and stuff.
So we feel like we know each other already.
And that can be good. That can as much as bad as we've
been talking about social media,some of these connections can be
really amazing and really good. And you can talk to people via
text or even like this for so long that when you finally do
meet in person, it's like it's not awkward.

(01:11:15):
It's not because again, back in our day when we were young and
meeting people online, parents would be like, you miss who you
did what I'm like, you're going to go meet who you're going,
you're traveling to their city for what?
And it's like, but now it's justlike.
It's second nature, yeah. This is someone I've known for
years online and then I I have known people for years online
and met them in real life. And it was there was no

(01:11:36):
awkwardness about it. It's just like, OK, so where are
we going? Yeah.
OK, So this restaurant. OK, let's go.
And then we the conversation continues as if we'd been
talking every day for the last seven weeks.
So thank you.