Sports Chatter, Thai Identity, Filmmaking, and Grief in a Nutshell w/Jon Hill

In this deep-dive episode, I chat with 2x Emmy-award winning producer and director, Jon Hill, Director of Creative Video at Fox Sports Digital.

We kick off with some spirited discussion on Chicago and Philly sports, before switching gears for a profound conversation about Jon’s award-winning feature film, Above the Clouds.

Jon shares the introspective journey of making his debut film, explaining how the filmmaking process became a source of healing after the loss of his father. He discusses how the project helped him solidify his Thai American identity and provided a powerful avenue for navigating grief over the years.

Bio:

Jon Hill is a 2x Emmy-award-winning producer and director living in Los Angeles. You can find him working at Fox Sports Digital as their Director of Creative Video.

His award-winning feature film, Above the Clouds, can be seen on Tubi, YouTube, Amazon, among others.

IG: jhill_aka_da_streaming_king

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Bumby Chronicles podcast.
This is Randy Kim and today I amhere with John Hill.
So who is John? He is a two time Emmy
award-winning producer and director living in Los Angeles.
You can find him working at Fox Sports Digital as their Director
of Creative Video. He also has an award-winning

(00:25):
feature film, Above the Clouds, which can be seen.
And I am very excited to have you on.
I also want to say thank you forreaching out to me and sharing a
little bit about your work. And also I know that you're a
big sports fan. What's which is kind of like
interesting because I never get to really talk about sports in
my podcasts, like almost ever. And I don't think people know or

(00:50):
at least my audience or friends know that I am honestly been a
big sports fan, especially when I was in my 20s.
Like we're like, we're the same age.
Like I was that kind of guy thatused to con radio stations in my
20s about what's going on with the White Sox, what's going on
with the Bulls. And so like I would be into
these deep dives and I was always really into these radio

(01:12):
and TV personalities. And I know that you're this is a
world that you are very familiarwith.
So I'm curious. So who are you a big fan of?
Aw man well, thanks for the introduction, Randy.
I always love a good introduction and you nailed it
makes me feel all warm inside. So thank you man Thank you.

(01:33):
Your question is what who's my favorite sports team?
Sorry. Oh, so I'm.
I grew up in the Philadelphia area, so I grew up in the
suburbs in Philadelphia. So I'm a, I'm wearing my Eagles
gear today and a really big basketball fan.
NBA is probably what I follow the most outside of football and
a big Sixers fan. Oh boy, I'm sorry.

(01:55):
I'm sorry about that. I know it's been it's been a
rough one, but you know what, you know what, like I think
that's what I love about sports and probably you do too is like
it is it is the best. It's real life storytelling and
the you end up following these teams forever and they always
let you down. And then, but it doesn't matter

(02:18):
'cause it's, it's your team endsup becoming like, you know, your
family. That's like the terrible cousin
that you have to like keep bringing around you and you wish
you could get rid of them, but you can't.
You know, you're born into it. So I sometimes am jealous of
people who who get to pick whatever team they are because
they're from a place that didn'treally, you know, have a pro
team and you can just pick something.

(02:38):
Yeah, I feel like the absentee father in this case because I
have disappeared. Like, I detached myself away
from the Bose quite a bit. The White Sox especially, like,
like, not to say that I want to be a bandwagon.
Like, like, for me, I want to root for my teams when I know
that there's hope, when there's promise.
Like, I'm not looking for like achampionship contender right

(03:00):
away, but I kind of need to see the building blocks happen like
what the Bears are doing right now.
I see hope. Like, you know, I was very
cautious at the beginning of theseason.
I'm like, OK, I feel like this could turn around with Ben
Johnson being the coach. But with the Bulls, they've been
in purgatory. They there just seems to be no
clue. There might be right now with

(03:22):
Josh Giddy, but for a while it'slike there's been no
expectations of them going beyond like the play in And then
for the White Sox, it's been a colossal disaster since 2021.
And I've been so far emotionallyremoved from that.
And and also I'm not a Cubs fan,so and I don't really watch

(03:44):
hockey that much either, so I don't.
So it's like it's it's very interesting to be a fan in that
sense. But also like, I think for you
being a 76ers fan, it's got to be very tough when you have to
see Joel Embiid, you know, not living up to his potential Paul
George for that contract. And then in the past you had Ben

(04:06):
Simmons. I'm sorry you're bringing these
names up here. I know it's.
Like wow man, I thought we'd talk about something light like
my dad dying. I mean, you know, I am.
I will say that I am a sports troll.
I am a troll though. OK, I'm.
Learning. I'm learning, Randy.
But but The thing is that I'd never get to do that because my
teams have really sucked where Ican't do that.

(04:26):
Like, I can't troll. I'm like Packers fans.
I can't really troll Lions fans like we used to.
So it's like, So it's like, yeah, the.
World is the world is a a balance, right?
Like you got to have Michael Jordan for for six straight
championships, you know, but then you're also, and then you
had the great Walter Payton and great Bears, but now you have to
suffer through it, you know? So growing up, you had the great

(04:47):
life, yes. And now you have to suffer
through it, you know? So, yeah, I what I and and I
agree with you 110% because I think, and This is why I love
sports. And This is why it's really
funny because in Los Angeles, not everyone, a lot of people
are in the entertainment industry, in the movie industry.
And a lot of my friends actuallydon't like sports.
You know, it's they do the, oh, it's sports ball, whatever.

(05:08):
They make fun of it, all that stuff.
But to me, it's it's just storytelling, right?
And, and the thing about storytelling is you want to root
for your hero. So if your hero is, you know,
like you said, like your team, you want to have hope in them.
You want to, you want to hope that the movie you're watching,
the character will eventually learn from their mistakes and
become the good guy. You know, you got to hope that

(05:30):
Luke Skywalker becomes the, the,you know, the Jedi that he, that
he was promised. And then when you're stuck with
the team where there's no hope and the OR the owners are
terrible and, and don't know what they're doing or they're
bad people and you're just like,why?
I'm, I'm not watching this show,You know, I'm not, I'm not
putting my time into the the Real Housewives of, you know,

(05:52):
Chicago basketball. But when you do get a team, and
even if they are flawed, even ifthey're flawed, like a Jo Ellen
beat or or, you know, podcast P,you could still root for flawed
characters. You know, I think that's one
thing that I like to do as a film makers, like not not all
characters have to be perfect. We could be flawed, we could
have our mistakes, but then the day we're we're rooting for

(06:14):
people. So that's how I look at the
Sixers, a flawed character that I am really hoping they get
their act together. Yeah, like who would be a sports
hero in Philly for you? A sport, you know, that's really
interesting. A lot of times it's just like
the people. I, I, I have good personalities

(06:36):
and, and have good characters, right.
So someone like Tyrese Maxey is just like always smiling, always
nice. You know, he, he says his please
and thank yous. And so those kind of guys are
really great to root for becauseyou, you want them to do well,
you know, you, you want society to be all Tyrese Maxey's, you
know what I mean? But then, you know, yeah,
Philadelphia basketball, like a guy like Allen Iverson, who is

(06:59):
the most flawed of of individuals.
And he'll tell you that too, youknow, dealing with so much of
his upbringing, his struggles and stuff.
And sometimes you kind of like seeing, you know, growing up,
Iverson was my guy because he had all the flaws.
And he just was this small guy that played with against these
monsters. And there's no player more

(07:22):
exciting to root for. So like, like, I love Iverson.
I really love a lot of these Eagles guys.
You know, I love Devante Smith. I got to meet him and interview
him once and he was a really nice guy.
So like, the joke is anytime I meet someone in my, in my
industry, we're best friends now.
So I put Devante Smith as my best friend.

(07:47):
Let's see who else. Yeah.
You know, it's just, it's just been fun.
It's been fun. Like I, I've, I've as I get
older, the sports doesn't, the losses don't hurt as much.
You know, I think when, when youknow, you're so invested in it.
And now I'm kind of more just like I, I let it flow through
me, you know, if a team loses, Ijust have to just have to live

(08:08):
to tell another story, you know,so.
I hear you. I hear you on that.
And how does Philadelphia feel about Donovan McNabb now?
Now that the Phillies have finally won the Super Bowl?
What's the relationship with Donovan McNabb in the city?
I'm curious about that. You know, I that's a good
question. He was always a divided
individual. I, I would loved McNabb growing

(08:31):
up. I was a big truther.
I was like, Mcnabb's great. We're, you know, he's the best
thing we've had in a long time. He's.
A Chicago guy, too. Yeah, he's a Chicago guy, you
know, but I think his post football and he obviously didn't
get us and he got us his Super Bowl flamed out there.
But his post Super Bowl or his post playing career has been

(08:53):
kind of he's been bringing a lotof like what I would call like
sad loser energy. He he looks like he needs, needs
to. It's just been getting in
trouble every once in a while. So I don't think Philadelphia,
like really I, I think they weren't not everyone loved him
when he played here and he hasn't done much in his post

(09:14):
playing career for people to love him more.
You know, he's he's no Jason Kelsey, you know what I mean?
Or, or something like that. Even Iverson is still like.
At least Revere so. To say like he's around and and
then, you know, like I said, again, his.
Personality. Charles Barkley and Charles
Barkley still, Yeah. Yeah, and they show love too.
So I think that's a different they.

(09:36):
The thing about Philadelphia is like, if you love Philadelphia,
Philadelphia will love you back.If you kind of put up a
resistance to it or something like that, or you don't feel
like you belong and, and maybe because he wasn't born there,
you know, then Philadelphia willwill turn on you as well.
Why do you think Ben Simmons gave up on his career and

(09:56):
especially Philly? Because it's just one of the
bigger I. I know tragedy is a huge word
for me to be using here, but like, but it's got to be the
most perplexing sports stories in recent years of like, this is
a guy who was a three time All Star off the bat.
I mean, he was a number one pick.
He was picked over, I hate to remind, remind you again, like

(10:16):
over like Jason Tatum and and and like, I I wonder about why
his trajectory fell off the way it did ever since that playoff
where he just was afraid to shoot the ball and was afraid to
get into the free throw line. Yeah.
I think so. This is something that I think
is really interesting and this is, this is going to be me one

(10:40):
part psychoanalyzing the person I've never met before and also
based off things I've read and people I've talked to who who
know the situation. So that's ill.
But often times there's a biggerthing.
And this actually I think happens in the Asian American
community too, right? Because this happened to me
growing up. When you are so gifted at

(11:00):
something, it becomes easy. And when things become easy, you
don't have to put in quite the amount of hard work that someone
else needs to put in. And then at one point the world
catches up to you, right? Like I didn't have to study as I
was so smart as like a three or four year old.
I, you know, I was killing the math exams.

(11:22):
I was, I was in all of the honors class, all that stuff.
And then you get, and so you don't have to try hard.
You don't have to study. You don't have to learn how to
learn. And then you get to college and
you're like, oh, wait, I'm actually failing all my classes.
You know, like the, the, it was so easy before.
I think that was Ben Simmons. I think as a, as a, as a
teenager growing up, he was the biggest, the fastest 1 and one

(11:45):
of the most incredible athletes out there.
And he's dominating, you know, as a kid in Australia.
So you have certain a different level of competition there.
You know, he goes to college, heplays a few games, doesn't make
the tournament, decides to quit,doesn't want to be in college at
all. Number one draft pick, never.

(12:05):
And that was the thing. He never needed to learn how to
shoot. He never needed to develop his
game. And he was getting praise and
getting the money and the accolades and the parties and
the cars and the women and doingall that stuff.
And then it finally just caught up to him.
You can only be faster and stronger and quicker than
everyone up until a certain point.

(12:27):
At some point you have to be able to people figure out.
And after a couple years, he just never, he never thought he
needed to just rebuild a shot and start from the beginning.
And it just caught up to him. And and I think that's the
difference between his probably mental makeup versus other
people where other people would be like, look, I got to be Kobe

(12:48):
Bryant, I guess you 10,000 jumpers everyday kind of thing.
My understanding is that that wasn't who he was.
Yeah, I think that there should be a good 30 for 30 like in
10-15 years about his life. I hope they get to produce that
because I would be very interested in figuring out the
psyche of Ben Simmons, especially what he's what he's
been going through the last couple of years.
I mean, he's he's doing well financially.

(13:10):
So I mean, I don't think there'sanything to worry about there,
so. I would guess a bold prediction
is that he you will see him on areality show very soon.
Wow, do you think he'll do you think he'll be dating a
Kardashian? Oh, well, I think he did for a
little bit. Oh, didn't he?
He tried. He might have, yeah.
But yeah, I could see, I could see him being, you know, some

(13:33):
sort of Bachelor show or some Real Housewives or something
like that. I.
I could see that. He cared.
I think he cared more about being famous than he did about
being a great basketball player,which is a strange.
Yeah, and also like for me, likea big sports heroes like Dennis
Rodman, I felt like I felt like as a teenager watching him being

(13:56):
eccentric and being very much like the devil may care attitude
that he has. I felt like it resonated very
well with me, especially as a person who was never really fit
in being queer, being, you know,Asian person in a white,
predominantly A predominantly white community.
And so I felt like he brought out that side of me like that
what's possible. And I felt like it has like it's

(14:19):
something that I've always been enamoured by.
And also because, you know, he dated one of my favorite pop
stars, Madonna, back in the day.So it's kind of wild.
But also like I'm a huge pop canarical fan from the White
Sox. I've always felt like it was a
classy guy being I mean, Chicagoloves him, but people don't talk
about him enough. I mean, he's such a classy act.

(14:39):
I mean, the Game 2 World Series home run did he the grandson did
he did was etched in a lot of people's memories.
I have a lot of love for like right now.
I do have a lot of love for Caleb Williams.
I'm like really rooting hard forhim.
And Scottie Pippen was a guy that I have always loved as a
player. But I like like we can mentioned

(15:02):
about Donovan McNabb. It's like like his post career
has been just hard to watch. And you know, seeing the
personality that he's become from what other people have told
me about him, it's really hard to like to really embrace him
because he was such a lethal force for the six championships.

(15:25):
And of course, Michael Jordan, Imean, also very highly thought,
but gosh, like he was the epitome of like greatness.
And but it's also interesting because his relationship with
Chicago practically has disappeared over the years and
he doesn't really have a connection to it.
Like one of his steakhouses is closed, has just closed about

(15:45):
two months ago or a month ago, Ibelieve.
And then you have his house thathe live in Deerfield, which has
been, I don't know if it has been so, but it's been on the
mark for at least 10 years. So he doesn't really have any
ties to Chicago necessary and unfortunately not with the Bulls
organization. So, yeah, but but you had a

(16:07):
connection or I won't say a connection, but you had an
encounter with Michael Jordan. So I'm just curious if you'd
like to share that story. Yeah, so, so I work at Fox
Sports and on the digital team. So I do a lot of podcasts for
us, our talent and, and for a while, many, I want to say 7 or

(16:28):
8 years ago, I was doing a basketball podcast with one of
our talent, Chris Broussard. I was producing that and we
would go to the NBA All Star game every year.
So we do interviews and, and youknow, shoot content and podcasts
and all sorts of stuff. So one year we're gone and it's
down in, I think it's Charlotte.Yeah.
And we're like, all right, let'stry to find a party, right?

(16:50):
Because NBA All Star Weekend is,is a party.
So we find out that there's two that Michael Jordan is having a
birthday party, his 50th birthday.
And we are Chris tells us he doesn't have tickets, but like,
this is the address you should go see if you get in, you know,
OK, so we're like, great, let's try.

(17:11):
So we put our suits on because we feel like, hey, if we're
wearing suits, you know, maybe, maybe we have a shot here.
And we, it was raining. So we get in the Uber and for
some reason because of the rain,the Uber drop this off in the
VIP entrance. I don't know why, but because of
the rain, as we got out of the car and maybe they thought we

(17:32):
were VI. PS They just kind of like rush
us out of the rain. We get to the awning, the back
aerial and they're like, do you have your wristbands?
And we're like, sure, give us the wristbands.
And so they just gave us the wristbands and then we're like,
great, which way, this way. And we walk in and then we look
at each other like, holy crap, that worked.

(17:54):
I can't believe it. Now we're in Michael Jordan's
birthday party And it was it wasincredible.
It was at a like a tequila or distillery type thing that he
owned or something like that. I don't remember.
But I mean, he had a cigar room.I mean, there was a Travis Scott
concert there. There's every, every Jordan
athlete imaginable was there, you know, like, 'cause it's,

(18:16):
it's the Goat's birthday party, his 50th.
So. So we have to go.
That was 2013, I believe, right?If even.
Yeah, Around then, yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
That, that sounds about right. And then we just yeah.
So then all of a sudden, like you, you feel the energy change
and and the whole party looks over and in starts coming in

(18:40):
Michael Jordan and he's walking down and it is like, you know,
they say certain people have just a certain aura to him and
and the whole room and they command the whole room
absolutely with this man. Literally, like people like
Charles Oakley are there, you know, like Russell West.
Everyone's just, like, in awe ofhim still.
Charles Oakley, still his bodyguard.

(19:02):
Basically, yeah, he's still big.So he starts walking in and he's
he's dapping up people and my boss goes and Bam, daps him up
and I'm like, oh, Oh my gosh, I got to, I got to try, right?
He he takes this up, I go up like this to dab him up.
And then Bam, his security guardjust boom fist palms me right in
the chest just off. Wow, he.

(19:25):
Said get out and I was like, I'mso close.
So damn. But my boss at the time, Justin,
just, yeah, he got to dab bum. We were like, Oh my God, you dab
up, Jordan. Yeah.
It was a fun day. It was one of those nights
where, yeah, just sometimes you just walk in like, like you
belong. And and hopefully no one says

(19:45):
anything. Yeah, I think it's really wild
because Michael Jordan, like during his playing career, he
was so accessible to the media. Like, the man would answer like,
questions at 20-30 minutes long because I used to listen to AM
1000 or you spend 1000 now and his interviews.
I would like to sit there and like, listen to the radio as a
kid, like listening to him just talk and very, very honest and

(20:08):
very much breaking down what happened, what he didn't do,
what the team needs to be doing.But you know, ever since he
stopped playing like you, like he's become the Willy Wonka,
he's become the I can't rememberthat famous I, Leonardo DiCaprio
played him. I can't remember what movie it

(20:29):
was he was up. I'll have to remember what it
is. I think.
I think his name. I think his last name is Hughes.
I believe Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes.
Yeah. Yeah.
I feel like he's been living in such a recluse.
He kind of does. He kind of stayed out of the
limelight. Yeah, so it is very wild that he
ever puts himself in a public setting because, yeah, he

(20:49):
literally takes the oxygen out of a room and he's the
definition of it. A funny story is that several
years ago I saw Madonna at the Chicago Theatre when she was
doing her theatre run, which wasunheard of.
You know, she had always done arenas in stadiums and she had
everyone, she had everyone's cell phone locked up in, in a,

(21:10):
in a, in a, in a pouch. And so at the end, like I was
like in the audience, I was in the, I was in, I was right by
the aisle and I was about to fist bump her when she was
walking past me. This she's a very tiny woman
too. And I'm like thinking this is
the Queen of Pop. This is the person who I've also
like listened to since I was young and I was about to fist

(21:32):
bump her, but her security card knocks my hand and she was about
to fist bump. And then I look around, she's
like right by the exit door and she's like good night, everyone
in Chicago and she exit out thatway and the people and they like
literally stamped the door shut so she can just get out.
I was like, this was at 2:00 AM in the morning because she

(21:52):
didn't start to show until midnight.
I mean, which is there's a wholenerd that's a whole nerd story.
But but again, that was my closeencounter.
But I was able to meet Janet Jackson.
I was able to shake hands with Grace Jones when she came by the
audience. I'm like, OK, at least I got my
little taste. So I'm not I'm not too upset.
But that is kind of like so surreal to be in that kind of

(22:17):
room when you like, as a kid growing up, like you would never
imagined to get into the sports and entertainment world.
And then the people that you grew up watching, idolizing.
And then here you are like, thisis your work.
And you're like, wow, I cannot believe I'm like in striking

(22:37):
distance with people that I looked up to as a kid.
Yeah, yeah. It can be a surreal experience,
you know, it's it's a it's an interesting mix because, you
know, often times, you know, like one in this industry, you
have to be you know, obviously you have to be very professional
and stuff, you know, and you have to be very focused.

(22:58):
So you can it's not like you can, you know, go all fan like
and and freak out, be like, oh, I know, yeah, blah blah, you.
Know like. It's you have to, you can't do
that. You can't ask for photos or
anything like that. But what, what what I find is
actually like when you work withcertain talent that has these
relationships, you know, so likewhen you work closely with

(23:22):
someone, like when I would work with Chris and stuff, you know,
he he would be like, oh, I was just he's so he is at beyond
level. Like he'd catch a book.
Oh, yeah. I was talking to magic last
night and. He thinks he's a name dropper.
He's. Like, wait, what?
What? What?
Wait what? He's like.
Oh yeah. Like, you know, like that's what
it is. Like that's literally who we
talked to about basketball with,you know, he's at such a high

(23:44):
level of, of this, this industry.
So it's things like that where you you kind of like realize
you're like, oh, wait, I'm like,you're working with the best of
the best, you know, and they're talking with the best of the
best. So yeah, it's pretty
interesting. Do me a favor, if you see Chris
Broussard next time, tell him tostick to his productions for a
change. For his what his?

(24:05):
Productions for a change. Oh, he's.
Like Jesus Christ. Hey, the game's the game, Randy,
the game's the game. You talk, you talk about.
Sports for three hours a day, you know, Yeah, you're gonna
miss a lot of those shots. Yeah, yeah, no, but yeah.
But also like, what can you share about your experience
being in the sports entertainment industry and how
has it evolved from the time that you started to now?

(24:26):
I mean, I know it's a very loaded question there, but no.
No, that's a great question because I mean, I see it, I see
it so much. You know, I, I, we talked about
it on my team, like I've been on, I've been working on the
digital team for 10 years now and think about just how far we
are with what we consider the Internet and social media from

(24:51):
the last 10 years. You know, like I have to tell
people, I started before Tiktok,you know, and now we're doing a
ton of Tiktok, you know, now everything wants to be vertical.
You know, now we're doing live streams.
You couldn't do the ability thatwe had to do live streams years
ago when I started. And now like it's so integrated

(25:13):
in what we do as far as, you know, podcast, a podcast's been
around for a long time, but not so much video podcast.
And we were some of the early adopters of that.
Like that Chris Broussard show was one of the early I was doing
video podcasts for basketball when other people weren't.
You know, a lot of the stuff we're doing now for pre game

(25:36):
shows, like you can see all the you can see a first quarter of a
game being streamed by a network.
And that was, they would never have done that before.
You know, like, for years, they they were very strict about what
kind of rights could be put out there.
You know, everything had to be bootleg.
But when you work for a big place, you can't, can't break
the law. You know, you can't, you can't
be stealing stuff. So, yeah, it's just kind of like

(26:00):
the whole industry has changed, you know, how people get their
information, how people get their news.
We're seeing it all the time. We're starting to see even more,
you know, and it'll constantly change, you know, when the
algorithms change, when the industries in the platform
change and we'll change. Same thing with sports.
Could you imagine growing up watching 96 Bulls and in the

(26:24):
middle they were like, Charles Barkley just tweeted that
Jordan's on fire. You'd go what, what, what just
happened? You know, like you can't do that
now. Now you can.
Now you can, you can have those things.
You can have these polls. You can do all these things and
stay up to date all through as technology grows.
And we'll and we'll see what's next.
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we don't know.

(26:45):
Like, you can't, you can't predict the future, you know,
and maybe in, you know, another five years, TikTok is going to
be only for your grandparents and everyone like grandma's
learning about. Yeah, exactly.
Right. And then there's going to be a
new Zip ZAP app that is embeddedin your eyeball.
And that's what the kids do. And you know, you'll make a

(27:09):
Skippity joke and then no one will know what that means.
And you'll be like, oh, no, you you'll remember Skippity.
Like, yeah, but that's what I love it.
That's what I love. It is because in in the digital
world, things change. You can try new things.
You know, one of my favorite things is just pitching dumb
ideas and, and seeing if they'llstick, you know, and you're
seeing just the industry change too.

(27:29):
Like, you know, you're seeing X players building podcasts and
become massive hits and now theyhave a whole business and an
industry based on their one show.
You know, we've seen a show growand then the other businesses

(27:51):
out of that, and now they have anetwork, then they're their own
studio, you know, so, so that's stuff that excites me too,
because I think for the independent creators, you know,
you can really actually, the gatekeeping has gone away in a
lot of ways. I mean, it's very hard.
I mean, it's extra hard now because the market's so
saturated. But at the same time, if you
have a popular podcast or popular web series or popular

(28:15):
Patreon or blog, you know, you can really, you can make a
living out of it. So so it's really exciting.
Yeah, and also you are a two time Emmy Award winner as a
producer. How has that changed you and
your own professional ambitions and people's perception of your
work? Oh, I don't know.

(28:36):
I mean, OK, look, I, I, I got tokeep it real.
I, I like to say yes, yes, I'm atwo time Emmy award-winning
producer, but it's the same way that like the backup kicker gets
an Emmy, you know, like, like I've been very fortunate to be
part of teams that did great things, teams that did the World
Cup, teams that work with Kazem for this the latest one we won.

(29:01):
So I am not the reason why we won an Emmy.
You probably could get rid of meand no one would notice, but I'm
very honored to be a part of a team that that deserved 1.
You know, so, as far as, so, as far as what that means for me, I
mean, I think it, it frankly, itsounds really good and it does I

(29:23):
think, you know, can kind of cutthrough.
There's so many people in this industry, but if, if, if you
sometimes get these accolades, it's it can get your foot in the
door. You know, if you're, if you're
reaching out to someone to collaborate or hey, I wrote the
script, you know, you know, it'slike there's a lot of it's kind
of help that way where you're like, hey, I'm not just a random

(29:47):
guy doing videos. I'm actually a professional.
And you know, I've been able to accomplish a couple things.
Do you want to have a conversation?
And let me tell you about my newproject.
I think that helps. I think that helped for Above
the Clouds. For sure, yeah.
And I was also wondering how hasit helped you like unlock the
other opportunities, the things that you were working on and I
nobody wanted, I wanted to definitely talk about about the

(30:08):
clouds, but I'm curious in like what it has led to in terms of
of collaborations. As far as collaborations, yeah,
I would say in the in the outside world because also too
like, you know, in the sports Emmy world, like again, like I
won an Emmy. But so did you know the 100

(30:29):
people that worked on the World Cup?
So frankly, you know, it's almost a joke too.
Is like, you can be really bad to have a couple Emmys.
You can actually like think of, you know what I mean?
Like you could be like, like there's really terrible people
with with Super Bowl rings. You know, there's the guy that
is like the coach will be like, I'll never put you in the game,
you know, like, so sometimes they'll see some, oh, I won all

(30:49):
these Emmys. I'm like, yeah, but you actually
stink at your job. You know, you're just, you're
just the backup kicker, you know, like you're.
No offense to Jeremy Lynn on that one.
Suicide, Yeah, exactly. So like, but so sometimes, you
know, so sometimes that could happen too.
But I think I think it helps getyou in the door.
And I think my, my body of work,I think speaks for itself so.

(31:13):
So you recently released your DBfilm Above the Clouds, which you
wrote and directed. Congratulations.
Thank you. The movie in a way is like very
connected to your life experience, specifically in the
passing of your father and navigating your own mixed Thai
American identity. What did you want to convey in
this film? What do you want as what did

(31:34):
you, what were you hoping for asa take away when you created
this film? Oh man, there's probably a lot
of things, but for me it was really like we were at a point,
I think in time and society, especially in the Asian American
culture where, you know, things weren't good, you know, we were
seeing a lot of negativity towards us, you know, especially

(31:58):
around time of COVID. And I think too in, in Hollywood
and in cinema, you know, my goalis like, I just want to see more
of our faces on the screen. And I think there's two ways you
can do it. You can ask for permission or,
or you can take it. And I'm not good at asking for

(32:21):
for permission. You know, I don't have those
connections. I don't, I don't have the
ability to, to walk into a studio and say, Hey, I'm blah,
blah, blah. My, my, you know, me from my mom
and dad, those rich, rich people, you know, and I think it
is, I think, I think there's a lot of value in asking for

(32:41):
permission and, and wanting to see more of our faces on screen.
I think that does help. You know, I think some of these
big Asian American films that came out are, are very
impactful. Crazy Rich Asians was great, you
know, and that's, but that's onestory.
Again, that's a certain subset of rich Asians.
I didn't grow up like that. So who's going to be able to

(33:03):
tell my story? No one, you know, And if I do
this work and I make this movie,then we'll have accomplished
what we set out to do, you know?So like, now there is a movie.
There is 90 minutes of, you know, of a halftime guy who
meets a Korean girl and they spend the day together and they
get to know each other and they get to share about their lives

(33:26):
and talk about what matters to them and learn, you know, the
ups and downs of what they're going through and, and, you
know, hopefully make people laugh, make people cry a little.
It is a sad story. But yeah, it's just really, I
mean, honestly, it's just based off my true life.
And I try to keep it as real as possible.

(33:46):
In what way has that film been helpful in exploring your own
Asian, specifically your own mixed Thai identity?
You know, the that's a great question, I would say for sure
because like, definitely while writing the film, you know, like
I was trying to figure out this nice.
You know, you're always trying to figure out a balance of what

(34:07):
story you're telling and why anda lot of the connective tissues.
So this movie is a lot, you know, for people who like the
movies, like, you know, Before Sunset or past lives, you know,
it's a lot of two, a guy and girl talking, you know, and
having conversations about life.So for me it was like, OK, well,

(34:28):
what are those conversations going to be?
And that's why I really, while writing the film, I was like,
no, I got to make it. I got to make it like
unapologetically Asian is what Isaid.
That was, that was the term I, Icame up with writing it.
So these conversations aren't going to be, they're going to be
rooted in our stories. You know, when we talk about,

(34:50):
you know, there's one scene where it's like the, the 2
characters are, have grown up with different subsets of
parents, right? One traditional Korean parents,
one Thai parents. So having, you know, I think
sometimes as Asian Americans, we're all lumped in as one
thing, right? Like, like, but it's like, and
you know, this, we are very different, you know, so having a

(35:13):
conversation of one parent having Korean parents and how
they were raised is going to be different than how having Thai
parents. And, you know, this character is
based off a lot of my wife. She's Korean and her family.
So we're able to kind of exploreour differences and try to bring
a little nuance into the discussion about Asian

(35:34):
Americans. What was the journey like as an
indie filmmaker to take on this project and developing it?
Because like being like filmmaking is an area that I'm
not very familiar with. But I will say that what I can
observe is that it's a very daunting task to try to get

(35:58):
everything set up, getting the funding, getting the
sponsorships, getting, getting everything that you need to be
able to get this into fruition. So how long did it take for you
to get above the clouds up and running?
And what was it like trying to to find casting and trying to

(36:19):
get the film put together? Yeah, I mean, this is this was.
It took 13 years to get it going.
Wow. You know, so my dad died.
Yeah, well, now 15 years ago. And then, so the story's based,
really based off the true story of a few months after my dad
passed away, I came back to LA and I went to a coffee shop and

(36:41):
I met this stranger. And then we spent the whole day
together that turned into a short film.
And then for 13 years, I was trying to convert the short film
into a feature length film. And it was very difficult.
And it became this kind of trap.You know, like your whole life,
you want to be a feature film director and, and you know,
you're going to, you want to make this movie, but then you're

(37:04):
not accomplishing it. So it's it, it becomes this,
this burden on you. And this thing that used to be
your passion is now your burden.And so at one point, I, I
literally had to quit. I had to like, finally say, put
this down and be like, hey, you know, like you got this sports
job. It's good.
Yeah, go for it. You know, don't.
For a while it was like, I'm doing this sports thing.

(37:27):
I'm doing these other jobs. But I'm really, I'm a movie
maker, you know, but I wasn't actually doing it.
So I needed to reset where I wasat.
That's when I got a little more focused in sports.
That's when we started winning awards and doing projects I was
really proud of. And then after a while, that
too. Now, now you're hungry again,
You know, you had to be re motivated.
You know, you have to sometimes walk away from a project to, to,

(37:53):
to and, you know, to, to go backinto, to loving it.
So that's what I did, you know, and then, yeah.
And, and I, I love telling the story, but I, I was shooting a
short film for a friend and our other friend was shooting the
other half and he was like, oh, who who's shooting the other
half? And he goes, oh, John Hill is,

(38:14):
and he goes, oh, does John Hill still make stuff?
And I was like, like, it was theJordan meme.
I was like, oh, and I took that personally, you know, and I was
like, oh, oh, you guys forgot, you know, like I'm out doing my
sports thing, which is great. I'm doing really well-being
successful in this industry, butI've kind of paused on on the

(38:36):
comedy feature film side of my life.
I was like, oh, I think people forgot about me.
So so I had to remind them. And so then from right there,
that was like the moment where Iwas like, all right, I have to,
I'm back, I'm back. You know, I got to I got to make
this film. But yeah, it's challenging.
You have to, you know, you have to raise 10s of thousands of
dollars. You got to convince complete

(38:57):
strangers to to join you, you know?
So you write the script and thenthe first person you know, you
send it out to a couple trusted people and then you build a
producing team and you get a casting director.
And the first person we cast it was Kai and Kim, who's stars as
Danny in the film. She's an incredible actress.

(39:19):
She's so good. You just fall in love with her.
In the movie. She's on NB CS, Saint Denis
Medical, She's and Cocaine Bear.She's a star, so she read the
script. We met with her and we casted
her instantly. And then, yeah, that's like the
first step. And then you start meeting more
people. And then, you know, eventually

(39:39):
we found Chris Labadie, who plays Jay in the film, another
incredible actor. He's been in so many things and
he really stole the show, you know, so.
And then once you kind of have that, then you kind of have to
fill in the little pieces. You know, you have to find this
location. Oh, this location bailed.
OK, let's find this. And then it's just you're just
battling everyday. You're just.

(40:00):
Trying to be prepared, being underprepared, underfunded, just
winging a prayer hoping to get it through.
But if you build the right team and there's a lot of people like
from my day one homies, you know, Dan Research, Sean Cook
where my producers, some of the first people I met 18 years ago

(40:21):
when I moved to LA Nate Cornett I went to college with.
He's been my cinematographer my whole life, you know, so you
build enough people that that believe in you and believe in
the project, and then, yeah, youjust kind of start walking
forward and hopefully you you eventually hit the finish line.
Do you have, I'm actually curious if who were your biggest

(40:43):
financial backers of this film? Like, who do you feel like was
the biggest supporters of of of getting this film, getting this
film jump started? Oh man, so we, we did a kicks.
I would say the biggest supporter is my wife.
I'm not even I'm not talking financial, just like as someone
who is like you need to make this movie, like I've seen you

(41:06):
for all these year, want to makethis movie.
I see, I've seen you have to quit.
I've seen you have to pick it back up with with passion, you
know, and she just was like so much like knowing that I
wouldn't be happy until I did this movie.
So she was my #1 supporter from day one, always supportive.
She's the best. And then financially, yeah, it

(41:30):
was, you know, we raised about $42,000 on a Kickstarter.
So really, the community came through.
And you'd be surprised, man, there's days I'd get a donation,
just start crying, you know, I got to like, I'd get it.
One person she went to high school with her, my good friend

(41:50):
Chrissy. Her dad was my 6th grade
teacher. He is my favorite teacher.
And he, he too passed away. And she was like, listen, you
know, I read your Kickstarter, all this stuff.
I never, I've not once touched the inheritance my dad left us.
But I want you to have money from it.

(42:11):
And she gave me, she got a very big generous check.
And she was like, I know, I knowmy dad would believe in you.
You know, this is my 6th grade teacher, you know, like for her
to say, like I know my dad wouldwant me to spend this money on,
on you doing this project. Like how do you, how do you not
wake up and try, you know, so like having people like that,

(42:35):
having other friends, lifetime friends come in on the private
side and and give really big checks and being like, yo, man,
I know I'm not going to see thismoney again.
Like go make this movie, dude. Like, like I believe in you,
just like I'm fortunate to have done a different career.
You know, you're, I promise you,anyone listening, you're
independent filmmaking friends probably don't have a ton of

(42:57):
money. And if, if you're a successful
lawyer, banker, private equity, whatever you're doing and you,
you want to support the arts, find those people, man, cuz cuz
you know, we, we can all contribute to projects in the
best way we can. You know, whether it's making
the project, being the writer, director, whether it's being the

(43:20):
financier or whether it's just being the cheerleader.
I had a lot of people who I talked to, you know, I always
say you need rocket boosters. When you're creative and you
have a project and you want to do something or you want to do
that, you know, go, go hang out with that friend that makes you
feel great about yourself. You know, I would tell certain
people like, hey, guys, I'm doing the movie and they would

(43:41):
just gas me up and be like, dude, I know you're going to do
a great job. You know, because like at that
point I needed that, you know what I mean?
Like sometimes you need to pick me up.
You need that friend that's going to like, you can be going
through a miserable time, but they're the one person that can
make you laugh about anything. You know, they're the one that's
going to be like, you know, would say, hey, John, I know
you've been wanting to do this forever.
Like I believe in you, man. It's going to be sick.

(44:02):
Like, just do your thing, you know?
So you, you need to find those rocket boosters in your life and
then hit them up when you need them, you know, and that's what
friends do. What has the feedback been or
your connection with the Asian American Asian diaspora
communities in regards to this film?
Like how has how, how has your relationship in a way been been

(44:29):
deepened or been tapped into as a result of making this film?
Yeah, that's so, so many ways, man.
I mean, I can tell you a couple examples in making the film,
then I'll talk about it post film.
But I remember we were auditioning and you're just
watching hundreds of tapes, right?

(44:49):
And I wish I wrote down this guy's name.
I really do, because I got to I got to send him something.
But this guy, he comes to audition and it's all taped, you
know, like you're, you're literally on a website where
people e-mail their audition tape and this guy looks at, you
know, and he goes, hey, man, hey, I just wanted because, and
I would always send the script out.

(45:10):
And I'm like, if someone wants to read the, the whole script,
I'd always send it to him because I, I believe in
transparency. And he says, Yo, I'm just, I'm
just really happy you're making this movie, man.
Like I read the script. I don't even care.
This character you wrote, this character is a dude.
I'm tired of auditioning for some Kung Fu shit.

(45:34):
This is just a real dude. And I was like, oh wow, like,
you know, like I didn't even think of it from that side.
Like if, if people are so if you're auditioning all the time
and all, and you're Asian American male and all you're
seeing is some Kung Fu stuff or some, some trope or some kind of
caricature to have someone read something that I wrote and say

(45:58):
like, yo, thank you. Like, like there's like to for
him to know that like there's people out there trying to
change the narrative, you know, so that was really special that
that hit me when I needed to be hit like that, you know, because
that gave me this motivation of like, oh, damn.
Like, like maybe there is something to this, you know,
maybe, you know, you have theories about what you're

(46:20):
doing, but to hear it from otherpeople and saying, you know,
like, hey, like go at it. Like thank you, man.
Like that means a lot. And just having conversations
with my cast too, you know, having people see it and then be
like, wow, like, look at this, like, like we're two Asian
American stars doing this thing and the movie's about us talking

(46:41):
about us. That's that's kind of rare, you
know what I mean? And then since, yeah, man, we
had our best, I would say our best screenings were at Asian
American film festivals. We had one in Silicon Valley.
We had one disorient up in Eugene OR Philadelphia, Asian
American fest like. And that really to me is, is

(47:03):
have been my favorite because you're watching and the question
and the answer is so good because they're picking up on
the little things. You know, they're the ones being
like, Hey, I actually do know 3JKim's and they're all brothers.
You know, like my joke was exactly like, Hey, I know I have
a mom exactly like Danny's mom in the movie.
You know, we have this awkward thing, you know.

(47:25):
So those have been great becausethen you also get to meet with
other Asian American film makersand get to talk about the
struggles and what you're going through and, and learn the
business and just seeing other great talents too, you know,
like, so not only do you get to play at these festivals and have
AQ and A, but you know, you spend the day there and you're
watching, man, you watch like 20Asian American short films and

(47:48):
you're like, that actor's great.I want to I got to learn about
them, you know, Oh, this, this is beautiful.
Who's their cinematographer? OK, I got to meet them because
what am I going to do in the future?
You know, so no better way than to to do that.
And yeah too. And just like yeah, showing up,
it's great. I love playing the film and
talking about it, man I love. And how did you feel about your

(48:11):
own multiracial identity as a young adult?
And because I know that growing up being multiracial, there's a
lot of different like perceptions about who you are
and where your belonging is. And also I know that film in a
way like brings that up. But I'm I'm curious to know how
do you feel about it growing up and how has it changed to where

(48:34):
you are now? Yeah, that's, that's, you know,
this one's really interesting and I've started, you know, I
definitely, I never felt like, Ilike, I know there's this, this
a lot of people that are mixed race will, will have this, I
guess I don't know, best way to say they maybe grow up confused,

(48:56):
right? They don't like, and I
understand, like which side do Ifit in on?
You know, am I, am I this, am I that am I, you know, I've heard
people say like, oh, I'm not Asian enough for my Asian
friends. I'm not white enough for my
white friends, things like that.To be honest, I never really
felt that. I, I, I, I didn't, you know, I
have always just felt Asian, youknow, like, I, I, my, like, if

(49:24):
anyone meets my mom, she's like,we're Thai.
We like sit on the floor to eat.You know, we, we have all like
the house smells like Thai food.Like it is weird.
Like no one, no one has ever. And we have to remember, I grew
up in Philadelphia in the 90s, right?
There was no polite, there was no you just you just walk into a
place and they'll just look at you and say like, what are you?

(49:45):
And you're like, you know, the racism in the 80s and 90s is
that's a whole other level of, of what we're doing now today,
you know, so I've never once been mistaken for being Irish,
you know, no, I've never been able to, to just like sneak in
into the white world and have beopen arms, be like, Oh yeah, I

(50:06):
think that's, you know, I think John Scottish.
No, like they, I've always, they're just like, what are you,
you know. And so like when you grow up
with a mom that you know, who barely speaks English, you know,
like you, you can't not be that.You can't forget that, you know?
So I've always known, you know, and I was, yeah.

(50:31):
So I, I never really even felt that, you know, that split side,
you know what I mean? And growing up, my brother and
all his friends were Asian and and mixed race or, you know, we
very diverse crew. So we always were.
I was just knew I, I was on the outside of it, you know, so I

(50:52):
never felt like that a couple times like, like I've there's
definitely a lot like I would say now what's interesting is
having I married my wife and herfamily.
They're both her family are, are, you know, came over from
Korea. So what I, what I've learned now
is that there's certain things that they didn't do that I did

(51:14):
some of the American things right, like a perfect example,
like Thanksgiving's coming up. When I first met her, I cooked
Thanksgiving for the whole fam, like all the extended uncles and
Koreans. My goodness.
And they, they didn't grow up with the Thanksgiving that I
grew up with, you know, because I would sometimes go to my, my
grandparents house in upstate New York and we'd have a big

(51:37):
Thanksgiving, you know, the white side of the family.
So making a Turkey for them, making the cramp, you know, the
stuff that I would say are traditional American kind of,
you know, things. I definitely had that growing
up, you know, but no, I never really had.

(51:57):
I've been one thing about me is I'm very comfortable in my skin
and I don't let outsiders dictate who I am.
And, and, and I know it happens to a lot of people, you know,
and I know I've had because I'vehad these conversations with
people where they feel like I don't know what group I belong
in. And you know, I and to me it's
like I belong in the group that I'm in.

(52:20):
You know, I and you're not goingto tell me other ways, you know,
like you can, you can try. You could try to say I'm
something I'm not. You can try to diss me and say,
oh, well, you're only this or you're only that or whatever.
And I'm like, cool, dude, like Ijust don't care about your
opinion. I'm me and that's who I love.
And this is, you know, flaws andall, you know, like, feel free

(52:42):
to judge me. I don't care.
I, I say this all the time. Look, you can say I can't write
a movie. You could say I can't direct a
movie. I can't edit a movie.
I can't make a movie. I don't know what I'm doing.
You can, you can say all that and that's your opinion, man.
I don't care. But what you can't say is I
didn't try, all right. Like I, I wanted something and I

(53:02):
wanted to see tell story about Asian Americans here.
What about loss? What about grieving?
And what about, you know, healing as a community?
And I tried, I tried my best man.
And I hope people like it, you know, But that's all we can do.
Yeah, I also want to say that toyour point, there's no one way

(53:26):
to be Thai, There's no one way to be Asian.
I mean, this is something I think about a lot as both
Vietnamese and Cambodian. I mean, I have definitely heard
a lot of people that are gatekeeping the cultures.
And, you know, sometimes I thinkbecause of where we are at in
our age and our journey, like back in my 20s, I would have

(53:46):
faltered. I would have felt very, very
frazzled by it. I mean, I think the first time I
went to Vietnam, it was very challenging for me because I
didn't speak Vietnamese very well at all.
And I got lectured by pretty much like everyone in Saigon to
the family village. And that was something that I
could not erase. And then when I joined the

(54:08):
Cambodian Museum Board in Chicago, then that I think
that's kind of where it started to like I started to reclaim
that. And I realized that I don't have
to feel like any of my identities are weaponizing me.
Like, like they're not a burden to me.
Like how can I make this an asset for me?
How can I make it work for me? So I think what I've learned

(54:30):
over the years is like, like, there's 100.
There's a million ways to be such and such.
And, and I think that's what's so unique and so powerful about
these stories because it's not one linear experience.
It's not one, you know, one-size-fits-all umbrella.
It's it's a multitude of very different layers from the

(54:53):
experiences. And, and we never judge someone
the other way too, right? You know, like, you never go
like if someone puts, you know, like ketchup on their steak, no
one questions if they're an American or not.
You know what I mean? Like I did, like I grew up in
America. If you ask me questions about
how the government works, I'd belike, I don't know, you know

(55:15):
what I mean? Like if you ask me a history
question, I'm like, I, I don't know, like I went to public
school. How am I supposed to, you know,
like I if I didn't name every president from George
Washington? I don't know.
Probably I could. You could.
You could actually, yes. I couldn't, you know, so, so
things like that where it's likewe don't get judged for all
these other things. But for some reason, like you

(55:35):
said, there's, there wants to besomeone that's gatekeeping
saying a certain thing or makingyou feel that way.
And it's natural. It's it's totally natural.
And, and I'm like I said, I'm saying this now as I'm
comfortable in my skin And, and,and I promise you there was
probably times where I wasn't, you know, or, or you like you
said, you know, like I speak very little Thai and I go back

(55:56):
and sometimes, yeah, you're like, I just sorry.
Like I don't know what like my mom didn't teach me tie as a
kid. Like I don't, you know.
So there are moments like that, of course, where you wish you
were better. But like I also, I also wish I
could do 200 push ups and had a six pack, you know what I mean?
Like, I wish my hair was long, wasn't thinning in the back, you

(56:18):
know, like I wish, I wish I was.There's so many things that we
could talk about where I wish I was better at, you know, and I
think sometimes 2 we have to give ourselves grace, you know,
and I think mixed race people inparticular.
And I think that's the part why some people will struggle with
it, you know, because they have to, they don't feel they're good

(56:41):
enough or they're, they're not enough of a certain thing.
But like you have to really lookat the other side, you know,
like you are, you are who you are.
You didn't get to choose your parents.
You can, didn't get to choose this.
And there's no shame in that, you know what I mean?
Like I would, I would, you know,I'm very lucky my dad was a
great guy, like good dude, you know, so I'm not going to be

(57:03):
ashamed of him or, or, you know,or the fact that we end up my
mom moving to America as versus where we would have grown up in
Thailand. You know, that's, that's out of
my control. So you just have to be like, you
know, like, OK, yeah, I'm not full time, but I also didn't
murder anyone. Like there's someone in Thailand

(57:23):
that probably murdered a bunch of people.
Like, don't like, what are we judging each other for?
You know, like, we're good. Yeah.
I. I went to Vietnam and Cambodia
recently and I talked about thisin my previous episodes, like
last like actually a year ago now around December.
And like, I went there because Iwanted to feel like I need to do

(57:47):
this on my own. I wanted to like reclaim
something that I felt like was taken from me in a way, or at
least at least try to reconcile with a lot of my own identity
issues growing up. And it's like, you know, I feel
like I need closure on that. And I felt a lot of power from
it because I at least for the first time, I didn't feel like I
was getting judged harshly for not being able to speak the

(58:10):
languages. And and also like for me, it was
allowing need to deepen my understanding of my relationship
with both the homeland. And ever since I left or ever
since I came back this past year, I've been like been really
wanting to tap more into my identities more.
And I started taking Vietnamese lessons.

(58:33):
And I also did so with the expectation of I'm not going to
be a fluent speaker. And I'm OK with it.
Yeah. And I think there's something
that's very powerful when you connect with other Vietnamese
folks. And I've been like texting in
Vietnamese more now. It's like, like if you had asked
me, it's like 6 months ago, could I say something in a
sentence in Vietnamese? I would have laughed at you.

(58:55):
But it's, it's kind of like crazy how a trip like that can
really change the trajectory in your own direction.
And I'm very curious about your own relationship with Thailand,
where your mom is living now andwhat does that, what has that
look like for you when you have visited?
Yeah, man. And I just want to say I'm, I'm

(59:15):
happy to hear that for you, Randy.
I really am, man. Like I like, it's such a great
journey. You know, our journeys are our
journeys are our journeys, man. Like success isn't linear, you
know, identity isn't linear, allthese things, they're not
linear, you know what I mean? And as we grow older, we, we
will change and we'll see it differently.
And I, I pretty much, I feel like kind of the same journey

(59:38):
with you. You know, like, growing up, I
went to Thailand a lot. You know, the first time I went,
I was maybe 15 or so. And this was different.
You know, I went to my mom's village and they didn't have hot
water my first time, like to take a bath, we literally
started a fire, put a pot of water on it.
And that's how I had to heat it up.

(01:00:00):
Like, the bathroom was a hole inthe ground.
No joke. You know, my mom grew up without
electricity. When my mom and dad got married,
my dad rented a generator so that they can have lights for a
celebration. That's how poor she grew up.
You know, she's really out there.
And yeah, when I first went back, it was really eye opening

(01:00:21):
for me. Every person, all my cousins
were wearing my old clothes. We donate.
We would, my mom would go back to see her mother when she was
alive and bring suitcases full of clothes for the for the
village, just so they had, you know, actual clothes.
So and then my cousin's out there, you know, I got to meet

(01:00:42):
them, got to really understand them.
And they were closer to my age. So, yeah, I've always connected
there. What's been fun now, though,
over, over the times I've been now I've been maybe, I don't
know, 10 or 12 times. We got married there.
We had a Thai wedding. Now I'm starting to enjoy places

(01:01:05):
like Bangkok more, you know, because as a kid, it's, it's
funny how you learn about, you know, your homeland through
your, the eyes of your parents, you know, So when I, when I
would go to Thailand with my mom, she hated Bangkok because
from someone who's Isan out, outin the, the jungle, the, the

(01:01:29):
city's scary. Bangkok's too scary for her.
So I kind of grew up, we would go to Bangkok, but we would only
go to a cousin's house and we'd stay there and we wouldn't
explore, maybe go to a temple kind of thing.
Definitely no nightlife, you know, none of that stuff.
And then now that I'm older, when we go, me and my wife go,

(01:01:50):
we, we love Bangkok now, you know, we can go and it's very
affordable. You know, there's so many great
restaurants and places to go to.The museum there is amazing, the
contemporary Art Museum, you know, So now, now I really look
forward to going to Bangkok and exploring the city as an adult.
And, you know, now that I have ajob, you know, a little more

(01:02:12):
money to spend than when I was 15.
So I think that's changed a lot too, because the city has
changed a lot, you know, and what I enjoy in travel has
changed a lot and like really good food, you know, like, like
what's funny is we go and we, weeat a lot of really good sushi
places. Cause a lot of the people from

(01:02:36):
people from Tokyo, chefs from Tokyo, where it's too expensive
to live in Japan, will start amakase in, in Bangkok and still
get the same fish 'cause it's not far.
You know, it's hard to get the fish out here in America 'cause
you gotta go all the way from Japan.
But if you're living in Thailandor any other Southeast Asian
country, the you know, the markets for the Japanese fish

(01:03:00):
right there. So yeah, I kind of like I love
it more and more and I I want tokeep explained.
We were just back because my momwas sick for a little bit.
She's better now, but then we sowe usually go back and then go
to her village where where thereisn't as much to do.
But even this trip when she was in the hospital, we were, we

(01:03:23):
were in a bigger city and we gotto explore that a little bit.
So like, I'm still exploring. I'm still, you know, there's so
much more I want to see and do out there.
And hopefully I get to yeah. You're going to have to tell me
some travel tips too, because I mean, I haven't been in Thailand
yet, but but I think like you, like I felt like I was in love

(01:03:44):
with Cambodia and Vietnam. Like immediately it's like, God,
I need to come back again. I don't know when yet.
Be very soon. Yeah, and, and we just
experience the world differently, you know, like,
like you said, like your trip now you're a different person
than the first time you went, you know what I mean?
Like completely. So yeah, you're going to explore
it differently. You know, it's just and, and I

(01:04:04):
think, yeah, for some of us, a lot of us, and I know this cause
I've talked to other Asians about this.
Like when you go as a kid, you know, it's a whole new world and
you're, and you're scared of it and you don't know what it is.
And you're following your parents and they have their
things, you know, like, you know, just just like, again,
everything's like if you're froma smart small town in Arkansas,

(01:04:27):
you know, you're Oh my God, Chicago.
Randy lives in Chicago. It's a war zone.
Oh, Portland, Portland, they're they're getting shot every day.
No, it's a dude in a frog costume.
Like it's not like that, you know, so as you, you know what I
mean? So like your, your opinion of
these places are shaped off the people who, who, who shaped
those. But as you grow and then you

(01:04:49):
can, you can see it differently is my point.
Absolutely, and which is why I love traveling.
I'm going to go, I'm going to goto Columbia at the end of this
year. So like I haven't been to South
America yet. So I'm like, I'm excited to like
explore the possibilities and and you know, when we talk about
your father and the loss of yourfather like past 15 years, what

(01:05:11):
has navigating grief been like in the years since its passing?
Because like I say this because my brother passed away earlier
this year and so I feel like I'mgoing into now the holidays for
the first time and then his one year death anniversary in
January and then his birthday after that in February.
So it's like, so I feel like I'mkind of bracing myself for it,

(01:05:33):
but I'm curious to know what hasthe relationship been like for
you with your relationship with grief, with your father?
Yeah, man, and, and I'm really sorry to hear about your
brother. You know, I, I tell people this,
you know, the first year is the hardest.
The first year is absolutely thehardest because like you just
said, it's all the anniversaries.

(01:05:55):
You know, it's going to be the first, like you said, the first
Thanksgiving without them, the first Christmas without them,
the 1st birthday, the first time00, the, you know, oh, the Bears
made the playoffs. Who should I you know?
Who? Do I want that's?
Those are the hard ones. Those are the hard ones.
I tell this story too, like, youknow, I was, I was thought I was

(01:06:17):
doing a good job handling and that's what a lot of the movie
is about is, is, you know, you think you're doing a good job
handling a situation, but you don't really see the millions of
cracks that have been building up in inside of you, right?
And I remember one day, it was maybe 6 months after my dad
passed and I, I thought I was doing well.
And I go to Best Buy to buy a hard drive and there's two

(01:06:41):
different hard drives. And I was like, oh, which one?
Which one should I buy? And I was like, oh, I'll just
call my, you know, because my dad was a computer guy.
Oh, I can't anymore. And I just started crying inside
Best Buy, you know, and, and leading up to that, I thought I
was pretty good. I don't even think I really
cried too much, you know, and then you're just like, so you'll

(01:07:05):
hit those moments too. I tell people, you know, it'll,
it'll be the most random thing. You know, you'll find an old
photo, you'll do this or you know, something will happen and
those will be the hard times. But those are also when the
angels come out too. You know, you'll find an old
video of them. I found some old videos of my
dad and I was like, I wasn't even sure I'd ever hear his

(01:07:27):
voice. You know, you find an old photo
or, or you run into an old friend and stuff like that.
So, yeah, the first year is definitely the hardest.
But, and I, I tell people this too, and I said in the movie, I,
I don't have any good advice. There's nothing I can say that's
going to make someone, you know,truly feel better about it, you

(01:07:49):
know? But what I do say is it does get
better. It does get better because
eventually you will adapt to thenew reality, the new world.
You find ways to cope, you find ways to cherish and memorialize
and memorialize and you know, live a different the, the new

(01:08:14):
life, you know, and it's not easy.
It never goes away, but you just, you know, you eventually
just kind of it just becomes, you know, it just, you just kind
of like get to it, you know. And two, over time too, like a
lot of time I think too, you just kind of like forget stuff,

(01:08:36):
to be honest with you. After 15 years, there's been
times where I'm like, text my brother, my brother text me.
He's like, yo, you know, it's anniversary of dad's death.
I'm like, oh, crap, is it? Is it like, you know, 'cause you
just 15 years, you just forget stuff, man, You know, so you
never forget what they mean to you.
You never forget the feelings you have.
But like some of these little things, like you said, like

(01:08:57):
going into Thanksgiving, I'm notlike, oh, this is the 15th
Thanksgiving without. No, you're just like, yeah, it's
just another Thanksgiving, you know.
But like, you know, I say success isn't linear, Healing
isn't linear, mean isn't linear.You know, grieving isn't linear.
None of this is we're gonna haveour ups and downs, you know, and

(01:09:20):
different things are gonna hit you when you don't expect it.
Absolutely, absolutely and. The good times too, man.
There's gonna be, there's gonna be a time where you're doing
something else and, you know, like your, your angels don't go
away. They show up when you need them,
you know what I mean? Like you're going to be watching
a game and there's going to be, you're going to have a memory

(01:09:42):
and you're going to feel them with you.
You know, you're going to be eating that meal, you're going
to be having a joke. Someone's going to be doing
something funny. And you're going to be like, you
don't even say like I know my dad would be laughing with me.
You just know your dad's laughing because you know your
dad's with you. You know your brother's with
you, you know what I mean? So it stinks, man.

(01:10:03):
It's like, I don't know what else to tell people.
I'm not going to lie like it, ithurts.
It's going to hurt forever, but it's going to hurt a little less
as as you go forward. You know, but.
You'll be surprised with how many times it does.
It also does feel really good. You know, yeah, 'cause it's
something that I've been thinking about too.

(01:10:23):
I think the first time, well, like, I think like the three
weeks, you know, prior to his funeral, like I was probably
more OK, weirdly OK. And you know, even at during the
funeral, my, his twin brother, who's very stoic, got emotional.
My dad, who doesn't get emotional, got emotional.
My mom and I, we weren't which surprised both, which surprised

(01:10:46):
everyone. It surprised me.
I'm like, but it wasn't until after I got back then then
things really started to become very difficult and very
challenging. Like I couldn't go anywhere
without being reminded. But like, I think 1 moment when
I was at A at a coffee shop and I was doing my Vietnamese
lessons online with a tutor and then the song The Only Living

(01:11:09):
Boy in New York by Simon and Garfunkel, specifically Paul
Simon comes on. That is actually my brothers and
I favorite song growing up. And so that comes on.
I was fighting back tears like as he was, as my Vietnamese
teacher was like telling me he'slike, OK, you gotta say this,
can you repeat this? And I'm like trying to go to
together and try not to cry in front of him, in front of like

(01:11:30):
people at the coffee shop. But those were moments.
And I think like very recently, I went to, well, my brother just
got his twin brother just got married.
And so they didn't elope in in Bixter, California.
The photos were breathtakingly beautiful.
And when I saw the photos, I just broke down.
I was like, God, I can't talk toAndy about this.

(01:11:51):
I'm like, so he's, I think that was like the first time it
really started to hit me. He's like, yeah, he won't be
there for those moments where it's like, yeah, can't do that
anymore. But I think as to your point, I
think I don't know if it necessarily means getting
easier, but you learn how to evolve, whether you learn how to
adjust and make accommodations for grief along the way.

(01:12:14):
So I think that's kind of the way I'm having to learn it.
So, yeah, it's I, I know that this is going to be, this is so
very much a new experience. And I know that we are at the
age where people in our lives are dying expectedly and
unexpectedly. And I think that's something
that's very much at the forefront of my head.
Like, how do I, you know, you know, think about the people

(01:12:35):
that have been, that have passedon and what do they mean to me?
How do I honor that? So yeah, I really appreciate
you, you know, sharing your story on that and what what
projects do you have going forward, what things are you
looking to do for 2026? Wow, I got a couple ones.

(01:12:56):
Well, I think one of the big things for me work wise is the
US, the World Cup coming to the to the Americas.
So I'm definitely so it's on Foxthis year.
So, so I'm going to be doing a lot.
That's going to be for people who don't know, it's going to be
probably the largest, most watched sporting event in the

(01:13:17):
history of the world. So the World Cup is so massive.
And now they expanded it to to Ithink 48 teams.
So it's going to be the largest.And it's in Canada, America and
Mexico. So it's on our home, home soil.
And that's going to be crazy. That's going to be 40 straight
days of just soccer going nuts and, and I've covered a couple

(01:13:41):
World Cups before, but this one,being at home is going to be
really, really special. Stupid question, where in
America are they they're. Going to be in LA Dallas San
Francisco, New York, I think Chicago, I think Miami.
I don't have to listen in front of me, but yeah, it's, it's,
it's going to be massive. So that'll be that's, that is

(01:14:03):
kind of what a lot of my everyday life is about is
preparing for this this thing. But on a personal level, yeah,
there's, there's a couple projects I've been working on
that I'm developing as far as the next feature film that I
want to do. There's there's a fun stupid
short film I want to do about identity and food and I might

(01:14:26):
try to sneak that in there. But really just getting this
movie out there, you know, too. I'll just keep going, you know,
and I appreciate you inviting meon this pod to talk about it cuz
yeah, you know, trying to get people, the more people who see
this movie, the more likely I'llbe able to get more funding for
the next movie. So it's kind of this weird

(01:14:47):
balance of you have to think about what's next, but you can't
forget where you're at now, you know?
So yeah, if we can get a bunch of people to buy it on Amazon
streaming, then then maybe we can build a base to, you know,
make the next movie. So yeah, which he brands.
Keep telling our stories. Yeah, which brings me to that
question, which I he just answers like, where can people

(01:15:07):
find above the clouds? Where is it available?
So yeah, we're streaming. So the best place is Amazon
Prime. That's just like the way the
distribution, online distribution works.
If you rent the movie, I make the most money or if you buy it,
you make the most money. If money is an issue right now
for you or anyone listening it, we're also free on to be with

(01:15:32):
ads. Same thing with Roku and also
our YouTube. Our distributor has a massive
YouTube channel, so it is available for free.
You got to watch a couple of commercials or, you know, if
you're fortunate enough and wantto support the film, you can buy
or rent it on Amazon streaming and just go to

(01:15:54):
abovethecloudsfilm.com. The big link right there.
Yeah, Yeah. And then I hope people get a
chance of watching it. And, and, you know, I think too,
like for anyone who's who's lostsomeone, you know, I don't want
to spoil the ending, but on whenI was in the hospital with my
dad the last time I saw him, youknow, I, you know, I feel it.

(01:16:16):
I I saw a miracle, you know, andlike I said, like, we don't, you
know, we, we we say we lose people, but really, they're
always with us, you know, angels.
Angels show up when you need them.
And that's what the ending of this movie is all about.
You know, it's the last time I was physically with my dad, but
not the last time I was with him.

(01:16:37):
I would say so, yeah. And, and also, it's, it's a
comedy. It'll make you laugh because I
think that's the best way through pain is often through
laughter, you know? Yeah.
As we wrap up, I have one last question.
So what would you tell your younger self 15 years ago if you
went back in time? What would you tell that person?

(01:16:59):
Oh man, besides buy Bitcoin you said 15 year old John.
Oh, 15 years ago. Oh, 15 years ago.
I'm so old. That's not even that long ago.

(01:17:22):
That sounds like. I think I was still alone.
I was. Like you were still in your 20s
because I haven't the same age as you.
Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I don't know.
I, I would say that I would say,hey, there's going to be this,
there's going to be, you're going to get this job at this
fashion company and there's going to be this cute Korean
girl. Don't mess it up, buddy.

(01:17:42):
Don't mess it up. If you can, if you can stick
around, you'll and she says yes,you'll, you'll have a good life.
That's what I would tell my myself 15 years ago.
Don't. Don't mess it up, buddy.
Awesome and awesome. And so I want to say thank you
so much for being on my show. I hope that everyone gets to
follow Above the Clouds and or at least see the movie Above the

(01:18:03):
Clouds and support that film andalso support your fellow indie
films as well. So yeah, thank you so much for
really being on my show, John. Thank you, Randy.
I love it. Appreciate you brother.