The C-List Episode 2 Featuring Andrew Rush of Star Catcher

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Jen, I think the mics are hot.

SPEAKER_02 (00:03):
I think we're ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Yeah.
All right.
So ask me what I'm excited aboutor not excited about, actually,
in this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Okay.
So what are you not excited totalk about?

SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
We should probably tell people who we're talking
to, though.

SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
Yes.
Do you know?

SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
His name is Andrew Rush, not Andy.

SPEAKER_02 (00:19):
Correct.

SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Co-founder of?

SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
Starcatcher.

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Starcatcher.

SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
It's a space company.

SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
In Jacksonville, Florida.

SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Right here in Jacksonville.

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Which is kind of amazing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you're
not

SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
excited to talk about.
Okay, yeah, okay, okay.
So, well, let me tell you what Iam excited to talk about.
I want to hear how somebody getsan idea and then finds funding
to make that idea happen.

SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
That, to me, is a mystery.
You might as well have said tome, I spotted a rainbow, and at
the end was a pot of money, andthen the company started.

SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Picking the winning lottery numbers.

SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
But I'm sure there's more to it.
I

SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
would assume so.

SPEAKER_00 (00:54):
Yeah.
And the other thing that makesme nervous is...
I'm imagining a scenario whereI'm sitting out looking at the
stars with my son.
I go, that's Orion's belt overhere.
And then over there is theMcDonald's logo in space.
And I think thecommercialization of space It
makes me apprehensive.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
And I want to touch on that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Okay.
Well, just as a reminder, thisis not about you.
This is about Andrew.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
We might allow you to have a few questions in there
to get your needs met.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Okay.
What about you?
What do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Well, I'm obsessed with space.
I mean, I know nothing.
I have a telescope that you canpush a button and it will point
you to a place in the sky whereyou want to see something.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
You have?
telescope where you can push a

SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
button.
I do.
And not just to look at my nextdoor neighbors either.
I can see the stars.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Well, will it, if you push a button, will it look
at the neighbors?

SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Well, I can't disclose that.
Okay.
Gotcha.
I can't disclose that.
But no, I'm really excited tohave this space conversation.

(02:07):
And maybe I'm falsely labelingAndrew as the he knows
everything space

SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
related.
He does.
No, he does.

SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
I'm going to go with the assumption.
Let's see how he feels about it.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Oh, hey.

SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Hi

SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
there.

SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
All right.
So tell us a little bit aboutStarcatcher.
And then we're going to get toknow the real Andrew, the
goalkeeper, the pole vaulter,all those details.

SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
So Starcatcher is a company founded to build the
world's first power grid inspace.
The reason that we're focused onbuilding the world's first power
grid in space is that I am amulti-time entrepreneur in the
space industry.
And every mission I've ever beeninvolved with in space is
constrained by what we callswap, size, weight, and power.

(02:57):
And Over the last five or 10years, we've seen the aperture
around size and weight open upbecause we have reusable rockets
now.
Rocket Lab, SpaceX, Blue Originhave these magnificent vehicles
that go up and we then come backand we reuse them again.
And that's really brought downthe launch cost to send things

(03:18):
to space.
But power is still a hugeconstraint.
We still basically go on thesecamping trips to space where you
kind of bring your solar panelswith you.
You get the power that thosegenerate.
If you need more power, you'rekind of out of luck.
But at the same time, we want todo all these amazing things in
space, more and more things.

(03:38):
We want to give you 4K YouTubevideos direct from satellites to
your cell phone.
We want to do edge computing inspace to power orbital data
centers and allow satellites tobe smarter, to operate more
freely.
We want to defend the nation andthe world using satellites in
space.
We want them to be highlymaneuverable.

(03:58):
All those things need a lot morepower than is available from
your average satellite withtheir solar rays just pointing
at the one naked sun.
So at Starcatcher, we'rebuilding a system to collect,
concentrate, and beamessentially solar energy to
those satellites to enable themto have more power, higher
concentrations of power, powerin eclipse.

SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
It seems like this is going to solve many problems.
There's a lot of use cases forwhy you would want to have this
endless supply of power inspace.
Does Starcatcher have a specificmission that they want to
achieve within this lifetime?

SPEAKER_00 (04:35):
Yeah, you know, I am personally and professionally
motivated to enable people to domore in space and to do new
things.
in space.
And my co-founders alongside ofme share in that desire.
And we really think that inorder to settle a place, in
order to commercialize a newplace or industrialize a new

(04:56):
place on the planet, you needinfrastructure.
And so on Earth, that'sbasically roads and power
infrastructure.
We're not really buildinghighways to space, but our
highways metaphorically are therockets that SpaceX and Blue
Origin and Rocket Lab and allthese people built.
And we at Starcatcher, we'regoing to build that power grid

(05:19):
in space so that it's as simplein space to settle or open a
business or operate a businessfrom a power perspective as it
is on the ground.
Like if you open a a newMcDonald's here on planet Earth.
It had to be McDonald's.
Yeah, that's right.
Sponsorship pending.
You know, they just plug in alittle power grid.

(05:42):
If you have a new startup, youmove into a little WeWork, and
you just plug your laptop in,and your buddies plug their
laptops in, and you work.
You don't worry about power.
And that's what we want tocreate.
So can we actually get into thedetails of the technology really
quickly?
So how does it– what's–Kindergarten level, what's the
concept here?
How do you beam solar power froma machine to another machine?

(06:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's a greatquestion.
So essentially what we are doingis putting kind of mirrors and
magnifying glasses in space thatcollect energy from the sun.
And then we kind of exclude someof the wavelengths that aren't
compatible with solar arrays.
But we just redirect that energyand maybe increase the

(06:26):
concentration of it to send thatto a satellite's existing solar
array.
Solar arrays are really cool.
They are band gapsemiconductors.
You know, that will be thelongest word I say.
Yeah, I know what that is.
But basically what that meansis, you know, if you send a
certain number of photons at asolar array, it will generate a

(06:48):
certain amount of power.
If you multiply...
send five times those number ofphotons, five times that amount
of light to that solar array.
So you're mimicking the solararray, like you're mimicking the
sunlight.
Yeah, we're taking the sunlightfrom the sun and then just
redirecting it, likeconcentrating and redirecting it
to a client spacecraft that's,you know, 100, 500, 2,000

(07:09):
kilometers away.

SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
That sounds dangerous.
What are the risks involved withthat?

SPEAKER_00 (07:14):
Yeah, it's really, they're really just LED
flashlights in space.
Okay.
You know, we are, you know, oursun, obviously, every solar
eclipse that comes around, wetell all the elementary school
kids, don't stare at the sun.
So, you know, you know, so we'resending really just like a
highly concentrated, focusedkind of flashlight that we're

(07:37):
beaming to another spacecraft atlevels that it can generate more
energy, but aren't going to harmit.
Okay.
And if it goes all the way downto the Earth, well, we have this
great atmosphere that absorbs aton of the energy, and so it
wouldn't be harmful to folks onthe Earth

SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
either.
Okay.
Do you guys have competition?
Are you the only ones doingthis?

SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
So this idea— kind of grew out of us studying
something called space-basedsolar power, which is a very old
concept.
One of the really cool thingsabout the space industry is that
science fiction writers havebeen writing about all the cool
things that we're going to do inspace one day for literally
decades longer than we couldeven go to space.

(08:20):
So space-based solar power goesback to R.C.C.
Clarke and famous sciencefiction writers like that.
And that concept is to collect abunch of energy with big solar
solar arrays in space, turn thatinto like microwaves and like
beam that down to some place onthe planet.
That's really technicallychallenging, really dangerous,
but could be a way to betotally, you know, oil

(08:43):
independent and power cities,countries, whatever.
So we were looking at that.
We're like, that's reallyinteresting.
We don't think the technologyhere yet, but where else do
people, where else are peoplepower constrained?

SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
Which kind of gets back to satellites.
And so we, developed the conceptto focus, pardon the pun, on
satellites.
There are a few folks in Canadaand the UK and then one smaller
company out in LA that are alsokind of focusing on power
beaming either to othersatellites or to the lunar

(09:15):
surface.
But we're particularly proud ofthe way that we're approaching
the technology because we'reputting a lot of emphasis on
making it so it's kind ofbackward compatible so our
customers don't have toretrofit, don't have to buy
customer receiver from us.

SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because that's always a barrierto adoption.
Of course.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
People think, oh, great, I want to use this, but
now I have to go spend moremoney because I have to retrofit
that to whatever I have.

SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, people kindof come along and say, hey, buy
my gas cap so that I can refuelyou.
And so, well, why would I wastemoney on a gas cap if there's no
gas station?

SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
And that's the kind of, that's the hurdle that we're
overcoming by sending energythat solar arrays on, existing
solar arrays on existingsatellites are compatible with.
And where are you in theprocess?
Because you guys launched lastyear.
That's right.
So we announced the company anda seed round of funding in July
of 2024, which feels like an eonago and yesterday.

(10:12):
I completely understand.
Start of land.
Seven months ago.
Yeah, basically.
Basically.
And we, you know, there werethree of us then.
Today, we have 33 folks thatwork for us.
Almost all of them are here inJacksonville.
off of Filth Highway.
Okay.
And we're really just cranking.

(10:33):
I'm super proud of the team.
They've really come together,gelled really well, and have
just started building.
So we have all these reallyamazing ground prototypes that
we've shown off.
Are they all just engineers thatyou've hired pretty much?
So of the 33, I think there arefour engineers maybe five of us
that are not engineers.
So I tell folks, I'm like, look,I'm basically like the general

(10:55):
manager of a sports team.
It's my job to put the rightpeople in the locker room and
then resource them so that theycan go in championships.
And so that's what we're tryingto do.
You're the Ted Lasso of space.
You know, I think that's thekindest thing everybody's ever
said to me on a podcast.
Thank you.
So let's talk about seedfunding.
Can you explain that process?

(11:16):
Like, you have an idea, you goto investors, and they go, yeah,
duh, we're signing you.
Yeah, I wish it was that easy.
Yeah, so to raise a seed round,you know, really to build a
company, there's a lot ofdifferent approaches, right?
Like, you can bootstrap it.

(11:36):
That's what we did with ourfirst company, Made in Space.
You can kind of partner withdifferent forms of capital.
So Redwire, which is kind of thesecond space company I've been
involved with growing, wasbacked by a private equity firm.
And then we used their capitalto build something really
amazing.

(11:57):
Redwire is a public company.
It's Unicorn now.
And so venture-backed companies,you're partnering with venture
capitalists.
that are looking for, you know,they really want that like 10 or
100x return.
That's what their goal is.
And at the seed stage, they'rereally looking at a couple of
three things.
They're looking at team, likewho are the founding folks?

(12:19):
Like, why do I think they can dothis grand vision that they
have?
At this point, you havecredibility.
You've got at least one companyunderneath your belt?
Two.
Yeah.
So on the team side, it's like,okay, are these guys just, like,
where are they exceptional?
You know, from a technologyperspective, from a, hey,
they've done this beforeperspective, or other

(12:41):
differentiating factors.
Then kind of the market, likethe total addressable market.
How big do we think this isgoing to be when it gets to
scale?
And then a go-to-marketstrategy.
Like, hey, you have this grandvision.
You want to create a power gridin space.
Great.
Okay, what are the concretesteps that you're going to
execute to start eating thatelephant one bite at a time.

(13:04):
And space is a sector that we'renot wanting for grand visions.
And we're not wanting for peoplethat have been really successful
and done lots of things, butkind of taking grand vision and
breaking it down into digestiblechunks that provide value to
customers along the way or proofpoints to get folks to attract
more capital.
That's where kind of the rubbermeets the road.

(13:26):
So we worked on that package andYou know, honestly, like, so one
of my co-founders, we have alittle bit of a superpower.
One of my co-founders is aformer venture capitalist.
Okay.
So he has this extensiveRolodex.
And then myself and my thirdco-founder, Mike Snyder, he was
the CTO of Redwire.

(13:47):
He was the chief engineer atMade in Space.
Now he's the CTO at Starcatcher.
So, like...
we've built a couple ofcompanies successfully together.

SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
Have the trust.

SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and, and, you know,sometimes we like, you know,
sometimes we're like a littlebit of an old married couple,
but you know, but then the goodway and the bad way, right?
Like we work really welltogether and, and yeah, it's,
it's a, it's, it's a great, it'sa great, but sometimes sleeping
on the sofa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes I forgot tolike get the milk or whatever,
you know?

(14:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And so we, you know, webasically tried to, we put
together a really good, packageof materials, really tried to
refine our pitch.
And we talked to a whole bunchof folks, a whole bunch of VCs.

SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
And we start like, honestly, we, you know, of, you
know, different kind of areas,different interests, different
funding, like fundingavailability, and just refine
and refine and refine thatpitch.
I mean, we did probably 200meetings in like less than a
month.

SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
I was just going to ask.
Wow.
That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's, I mean, that'spretty typical.
Like if you, if you want todrive and be successful with it,
it's, you know, it's anendurance race.
But it's an endurance race whereyou have to smile and say the
same jokes every time, like itwas the most clever thing that
you've ever thought of.
And also just like show like,hey, I have the conviction for

(15:06):
this thing that I want to do.
And we know how to do it.
And, you know, you have to kindof keep that energy level up
because that's what the ideadeserves.
And hopefully it's inspiringenough to

SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
To keep you there.

SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
Yeah.
And so logical and orintriguing.

(15:51):
And so that got folks to bewilling to talk to us.
And we were fortunate to find,you know, really, really good
partners that, you know, hadhigh conviction in us, that had
some knowledge of space.
They weren't just like, whichway is space?
Which

SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
way is space,

SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
though?
It's all the ways.
And, you know, and either hadlike really good kind of domain
expertise and connections orkind of had or had access to
multiple stages of capital.
Because when you're trying tobuild a venture-backed business,

(16:32):
it's really important to say,hey, not only say, hey, like I
raised a little bit of capital.
Isn't that great?
You kind of got to look at whereyou want to get to and then map
backward.

SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
And say, okay.
That makes a ton of sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like the capital formationstrategy is as important as the
technology roadmap is asimportant as the business
development roadmap.

SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (16:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
Any important dates in your future?

SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
Yeah, so this is a really big year for us.
We have some really excitingthings coming up.
We, you know, this year's reallyfocused on now that we have the
team together doing a series ofdemonstrations of the technology
and then continuing to build,you know, customer trust.
You know, we've signed a lot ofletters of intent with customers

(17:17):
who say, hey, if this existednow, we would buy power from
you, you know, at these ratesand, you know, this amount.
We also have some payingcustomers that will announce in
the coming weeks months yeahyeah it is pretty exciting yeah
but what are they paying for sowith this yeah it's a great
question yeah so so in theespecially in the space sector I

(17:37):
mean pretty much like anytechnology sector there's
there's kind of like prototypingand development phase and then
there's like the you know thekind of commercial services
commercial products and servicesphase so we're Our customers
right now are in thatprototyping and demonstration
phase.
And then, you know, as we matureand start flying, you know,

(17:58):
start putting assets on orbit,then we'll get into the
commercial services kind ofphases.
So they're sort of investing inyou as well, those initial
customers?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's technologydevelopment, right?
You got to work together witheverybody to sort of get through
the various valleys of death andthen, you know, deliver these
great new kind of products andservices.

UNKNOWN (18:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
That's great.

SPEAKER_02 (18:19):
That's

SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
very

SPEAKER_02 (18:19):
exciting.
I don't know about you, but Iwant to dig...

SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
You know a little about me.

SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
I mean, a little bit.
And then I ignore you and say,no, make this more about me.

SPEAKER_01 (18:27):
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
But I want to make this a little bit more about
Andrew.
And I would like to play...
a little game.
Are we

SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
going to do this?

SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
We are going to do this.
Okay, let's do it.
Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
I want our audience to understand a little bit more
about you.
Okay.
And we want to put you on thespot.
Great.
You're welcome.
So we're going to play wordassociation.

SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Right.
It can also be sentenceassociation or paragraph
association, but not twoparagraph association.

SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Yeah, we'll cut you off at a certain

SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
point.
You've heard me talk, so you'relike, okay, just give me the
soundbite.
Concise.

SPEAKER_02 (18:58):
But we want you to Think of the very first thing
that comes to your mind when wesay a word or a phrase.
This is not a pop quiz.
I mean, it kind of sort of is inits own right.
But this is just to get to knowthe first thing that is in your
brain.
And then we're going to judgeyou for it.
Great.
We'll tell you how we're judgingyou.

SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
Great.
I'll do like the emperor'sthumb.
Oh, wonderful.
Wonderful.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
I believe you have the first one.

SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
Okay.
Elon Musk.
Falling from grace.

SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
Aliens, a.k.a.
New Jersey UFOs.

SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
We wouldn't see them if they were here.
Tang.
Really tasty.

SPEAKER_02 (19:46):
Space diplomacy.

SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Starship troopers.
Space settlements.
Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 (19:58):
Space balls.

SPEAKER_00 (19:59):
Jim Bridenstine.

SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
1987, directed by Mel Bull.
I didn't know if I was going toneed to bring you back, but you
passed that test.

SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
That was the movie that inspired where Andrew is
today.
So we, you know, obviouslysci-fi was really popular in the
space community.
We still, to this day, in space,It started in our previous
companies, but in the interviewprocess, we would ask people
like Star Trek or Star Wars.

(20:32):
Is there a right answer?
So I have a right answer.
It's Star Trek.
And Mike Snyder, my co-founder,has a right answer, which is
Star Wars.
So folks always pretty much, youknow, it was kind of a house
divided.
But we do occasionally getpeople that will throw out
interesting answers.
Basically, the only wrong answeris no answer.
Some folks have said Babylon 5.

SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
Not as good as Star Trek.

SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Some folks have said Battlestar Galactica, which, you
know, it's acceptable.

SPEAKER_02 (21:00):
It's acceptable.

SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
But so Jim Bridenstine, who was the leader
of NASA under President Trump inthe previous administration,
he's a great guy.
He was asked this questionbecause this isn't just a thing
that's exclusive to us atStarcatcher.
And his answer was Spaceballs.

SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
That's excellent.
I love that so much.
It's a great movie.
I want to now dig in to yourbackground.
Obviously, we stalked you onLinkedIn.
Wonderful.
Everybody does it.
It's acceptable.
And we noticed that you have abachelor's from UNF.

(21:40):
That's right.
In physics.
And then you went on to get yourJD and became a patent lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
A bit unique, and I'm sure you've heard that one
before.
Explain yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
So, you know, my mother temporarily would have
said that I was falling fromgrace as well when that
occurred.
So I, in undergrad here atUniversity of North Florida, had
a company.
in addition to taking classes.
We sold airsoft guns and rednecktoys like samurai swords and
things like that.

(22:12):
It was super fun.
And I went to a professor hereat UNF and I said, hey, I love
space.
I love physics.
I wanted to be a cosmologist fora good amount of time.
But I also love this businessstuff.
This is really fun.
And he was like, well, you know,there are some folks that have
physics degrees that go go intolaw they go become a patent

(22:33):
lawyer and maybe maybe thatwould be interesting and I was
like oh and I looked into it andI was like okay this is actually
like a pretty interesting mergerlike being a lawyer which can be
very entrepreneurial yeah likemarriage of that with my you
know my love of technology andof space yeah so yeah I went and
took the LSAT you know kind ofthe law school entrance exam and
got into Stetson which is downdown in Gulfport you know in the

(22:57):
Tampa St.
Pete area and really reallyenjoyed that but I really also
wanted to stay in space andwanted to work in the space
sector.
So when I was in law school, Icalled like every single space
company that I could find, likethe number for the CEO or the
general counsel.
And because I was looking forlike a summer internship and I

(23:17):
said, hey, like I have theseskills.
Like I worked at a solid stateresearch lab here at UNF.
I have a little bit, had alittle experience with like
liquid nitrogen and things likethat.
And And I love space, and I'malso going to become a lawyer,
and I can write patentapplications for you because the
patent bar is actually separatefrom the lawyer bar.
And so I found a company thatgave me a summer internship.

(23:41):
They were actually out inMojave, California, which is two
and a half hours from anythingin California, like from L.A.
and everything else.
It's in the middle of thedesert.
But at the time, all theserocket and space companies were
forming and doing interestingthings.
And so I got on one end of I-10here in Jacksonville, and I

(24:01):
drove to the other end of I-10in L.A., and then I went and got
my sort of first job in thespace sector, starting to do
lawyer things, patent lawyerthings, and then eventually took
the bar and practiced forseveral years.

SPEAKER_02 (24:15):
Does it help you today?

SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Absolutely.
I think that having the— the mixof background that I have, both
the, you know, the technical andthen, and then the, you know,
the legalistic slash commercialreally has helped me not only,
you know, avoid paying forlawyers, but, but understanding
sort of the rhythms and, andthe, you know, the boundaries

(24:38):
of, of, you know, of, ofbusiness practice.
So, you know, because from likewith science and engineering,
you're sort of pushing againstthe boundaries of, of the
physical universe.
And then, you know, The law iskind of the same way.
You have the Constitution, stateand local laws, federal laws,
and that's a boundary thatyou've got to operate with it.

SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
Do you see yourself withinStarcatcher being able to go for
any patents in what you'redoing?

SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Absolutely.
So we have a few patentapplications pending right now.
Excellent.
And we'll continue to build outthat portfolio.
You know, I really deeplybelieve, and this is borrowing
shamelessly from a buddy ofmine, that you know, you
shouldn't have, your businessmodel shouldn't require you to
win a Nobel Prize, but we'redoing a bunch of really

(25:26):
inventive things, right?
We're combining things in newand interesting ways, you know,
things that work in space orcan't or will be easy to make
work in space, but also puttingthem together in a way that, you
know, provides this reallyunique service.

SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
That's

SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
fascinating.
Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
I know you're dying to get to this topic.

SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
forget what it was though

SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Arash wants to be controversial

SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
now okay let's do it

SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
remember he had said previously oh the McDonald's
that could be seen up in spacemakes him very nervous this is
theoretical it hasn't happenedyet but you have thoughts

SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I'm getting nervous right now

SPEAKER_02 (26:02):
I know I can tell

SPEAKER_00 (26:03):
yeah yeah I mean you're more of a Starbucks guy

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
actually yes

SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
that's a long that's a long conversation um You know,
this may not apply, but there'sa quote that I heard that we are
living in a dystopia with noneof the aesthetic.

SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
It's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 (26:25):
And I guess part of me fears like the
commercialization of space isheaded towards the worst
possible outcomes where we don'tget this beauty of the
technology.
We just sort of get the logosand the industrialization of it
all.
I guess I'm just wanting to hearyour thoughts.
Appease me.
Make me feel like if you incharge, it's not going to
happen.
Yeah, yeah.

(26:46):
So I'm a big fan of sci-fi, aswe were talking about a little
bit earlier.
And a lot of folks were reallydisappointed with the outcomes
of the Apollo era because wethought that we were going to
get flying cars and moon basesand vacationing on Mars.
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
still waiting for mine.

SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
And instead we got like TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 (27:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
You know, in Bitcoin.
And one of the reasons that'swhere the world ended up is that
we did amazing things in theApollo era.
Absolutely, absolutely amazingthings.
But that first golden age ofspace was really motivated by
national pride.

(27:29):
With a side of themilitary-industrial complex.
Because if I can put people onthe moon, then I can put a bunch
of nukes on Moscow.
And vice versa.
So once we got to the moon, thenational pride was satisfied.
And hey, I got a big rocket andI can do those weapon things.

(27:50):
Today, we are in the secondgolden age of space.
And it's not just underpinned bynational pride wanting to
Occasionally caring aboutbeating the Chinese.
But it's motivated by therecognition of the things that
we can do in space that enrichall of our lives.
Like all of us, every singlemoment in our life, space is

(28:12):
helping us.
You know, like the GPSconstellation is not just the
thing that helps Uber like getyou from point A to point B.
It's also a universal clock thatdrives our entire banking system
that makes sure the money leavesyour bank account, gets somebody
else's bank account without itbeing having some terrible
snafu.
Can it just come into my bankaccount?
That's right.

(28:32):
That's right.
I think that's what some folksare trying to do.
But so this second golden age ofspace is motivated not just by
that national pride and by theThe innate desire that we have
as humans to explore theuniverse and understand where we
came from and how things work,but also by this recognition

(28:53):
that we can do reallyinteresting things that enrich
humans, that we cancommercialize, and we can grow,
and we can expand.
you know, our place in theuniverse.
And so, and that is going to,that makes it more enduring.
Folks have done really amazingthings in taking the technology
in your smartphones and usingthat to make satellites that

(29:16):
don't cost$100 million, theycost$100,000.
Like, you know, the folks atPlanet Lab, for instance, that's
what they did.
They took these giant remotesensing satellites that took
pictures of the Earthoccasionally for NOAA and
national security folks and madelittle bread boxes that could
take pictures and enable us allto kind of see and to do lots of
interesting conservationistthings, do lots of interesting

(29:39):
commercialization things.
And so today where we are iswe're just scratching the
surface, figuring out that wecan manufacture things in space,
that we can do drug discovery,we can make stronger metals, we
can make more interestingoptical fibers, and we're
expanding our ability tocommunicate with one another
using space.
So explain that.
How is...

(30:00):
how do you have new directdiscoveries in space that you
can't have?
Yeah, yeah.
Or interesting fibers, as yousaid.
Yeah, so space has two or threereally unique properties that we
don't have on the Earth.
One is a basically limitlesssource of energy from the sun.
That's one of the things we'releveraging in StarCounter.
The other is microgravity.

(30:22):
And when you take gravity sortof out of the manufacturing
equation, you can make reallyinteresting things.
Like you, you will like, like ifyou're doing alloys with metals
that, you know, with wildlydifferent mass elements, they
don't like, they don't pullapart and settle out because
gravity is pulling on them.
They just, they just form up.
And so we can make stronger, wemake stronger alloys.

(30:44):
Like, and they actually showthat on all the way back on
Apollo 14.
Same thing with drugs.
And then when you bring it backto earth, it's, it's, yeah,
it's, it's, you do that whenit's in a molten state and then
it, and then it solidifies andthen it's, and then it's,

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
bring it right back.
We can use

SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
it.

(31:26):
And we're just like scratchingthe surface of that.
And so I think the reason we'renot going to go to that dystopia
without the aesthetic is becausewe have folks that say, hey,
it's they're really interestingthings we can do with space.

(31:46):
And there's been enoughcommercialization that.
It's cheaper now for us to go tospace.
How far away?
I don't even know if this is theright question.
I'm dying for

SPEAKER_02 (31:55):
the timeline question to be answered.

SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
We're going to have a manufacturing plant of alloys
on the moon in the next sixyears?
Yeah.
Or is Big Pharma going to set uptheir labs?
Right, right.
I think within the next 10years, we will have meaningful
manufacturing in low-Earthorbit.
And then we will kind of expandout from there.

(32:19):
I think we will see folks,hopefully, the first woman and
the next man return to themoon's surface via the Artemis
program.
I

SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
want to circle back to that because I just heard
some news.

SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Certainly.
I think we'll see that.
But the commercialization of themoon and the commercialization
of Mars is a little further off.
You know, I really think thatwe'll first see, you know,
low-Earth orbit kind of getbuilt out, and then the activity
there that, you know, willfurther drive down the cost of
launch and the cost ofoperation, right?

(32:56):
You know, having more rocketsgoing up means it costs less to
put stuff up.
Having more satellites going upmeans it costs less to build
satellites.
Having a power grid in spacemeans it costs less to power and
operate all those things.
And then you can use all thatgreat savings and economy of
scale to go and commercializethe moon and go on.

SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
So you do anticipate that within the next 10 years,
we're going to see somethinggreat that's actually happening.
And we will either manufacturesomething that we'll be able to
use down here or we'll be ableto further space missions in
space because you won't have toworry about where the power is
going to come from.
What about flying cars?

(33:33):
Is this a race?
Are we going to ever have flyingcars?
Is that going to be one of thosethings where...
I'm pretty sure the Chinese diddo some sort of a prototype and
demonstrated it.
But it's like, where iseverything going and what is
actually going to be achievable?

SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Yeah.
You know, I think one of theinteresting things about kind of
future prediction projects Wewill hold these against you.
Yeah, that's fine.
So reading science fiction orthings that say, hey, in 30
years we're going to have X, Y,and Z, and then looking at that
versus where we are is reallyinteresting.
Because, yeah, from a sort ofvisceral perspective, it's a

(34:18):
little bit sad that I don't havea Jetsons car.
At the same time, we have...
You know, we do have amazingtechnologies that keep us
connected in ways that we neverreally imagined before.
We have great medicaltechnologies that help people
stay, you know, live wonderfuland full and healthy lives.

(34:38):
Like my wife and one of mychildren are both type 1
diabetics.
And the technology that has– thelast 10 years that has evolved
to make that go from– A diseasethat's difficult to deal with.
It was a disease that meansthey're just kind of like
cyborgs, right?
They always have, you know, aconstant glucose monitor on and
a pump on.
But they're living, you know,normal lives.

(35:00):
Like, it's really amazing.

SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
What do you hope your child will see?
Now that you mentioned, that'swhat I wanted to know.
Like, you were talking 10 years.
What do you hope for the futurefor your kids?

UNKNOWN (35:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
I hope that they will have available to them
boring jobs in space.
Because if there are boring jobsin space, like accountants and
lawyers, that means that there'sa level of people living and
working in space that we'vefully settled.

(35:36):
at least a part of it.
Also, those jobs won't be superboring because you get a great
view.
How does that realisticallywork?
I mean, how do you actuallysettle space?
You're imagining, are thesegiant spaceships?
Are we on the moon withinfrastructure and buildings?

SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
Are we going to inhabit a planet or live in a
thing?

SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
So there are a couple of things that I don't
think everybody really knows oreverybody really viscerally
understands.
But any person...
that is 24 or younger,

SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
has

SPEAKER_00 (36:11):
lived their entire lives with people living and
working in space.
Because the International SpaceStation, which depending on the
day, has like six to 12 people,sometimes a few more on it, has
been operating since like 2000,2001.
And that's like awesome.
That actually is like we wentfrom zero to one on like...

(36:35):
pioneering a place.
Now it's hard and it's expensiveand it currently requires the
effort of a nation to keep thatplace flying and operating.
But we also live in an area nowwhere there are multiple
tourists a year that go hang outon the space station for a week.

(36:57):
We live in an era where thereare folks that There are dozens
of folks now a year that go upon rockets that kind of
duplicate what Alan Shepardexperienced, like the Parabalk
flight.
They go up and come back down.
And so, you know, there's thatkind of like tourism element,
which, you know, people love togo and explore, plus all these

(37:19):
great like kind of industrialuses that I was mentioning
earlier.
So I think we'll see thosethings kind of synergistically
continue to develop, plus thereduction in launch costs and
the increased availability ofthings that can take people
safely up and down, and thingsthat can take hardware up and
down robotically that we can useto do research and development

(37:41):
and production.
Those things will all just kindof have a virtuous cycle to get
us to a place where I fullybelieve that Yeah, like my
children will have the abilityto, you know, choose a boring
job in space.
Yeah.
And maybe I'll convince my wifeto like take a retirement trip
to lower Earth orbit one day.

SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
how the conversations change if that
were to take place do you do youimagine that one day we're just
gonna like oh excuse you greenmartian like let's get into that
i have to know i mean i'mdefinitely a bit of a conspiracy
theorist like i just love theart of the possible and if you
don't know something thenanything's possible so living in

(38:23):
the industry that you do lots ofObviously, science fiction
that's driving this, but what'sAndrew's personal opinion?

SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
That's classified.
No, no.
That's one of the jokes he haswith the seed funders.
Yeah, no, but I would...
Okay, look, I'm a big believerthat they're in a universe as
expansive as ours.
I think it's absolutelyreasonable to think that there

(38:52):
are other intelligent speciesthat...
exist or have existed.
Right.
And this is a little bit of likekind of a human-centric view,
but I think if they did exist, Ithink if they exist, they
haven't, they probably haven'tvisited us yet because, you
know, just as like how a humankind of, because they would be

(39:12):
much more technologicallyadvanced than us to travel
between star systems.
Yeah.
And just as we as the sort oftechnological you know apex
predator on the planet um youknow when we see other other
species on our planet we're notwe don't like tiptoe around them
and like not let them know we'rehere right like if like little

(39:34):
kids they see an ant pile andthey'll go explore the ant pile
you know and without withoutregard of like ants seeing them
yeah uh and so i really i thinkthat To the extent that aliens
exist.
They're messing with us the sameway a kid messes with an empire.
And we're like, that was just ahurricane.
Yeah, but I think it would justbe overt, right?

(39:55):
Like, I think they would show upand they'd be like, hey, what
are you guys with your weird twolegs or whatever?
However, we're different orunique.
And, you know, maybe they likeour cinema.
Maybe they think it's, you know,drivel.
But I think they just I thinkthere would be no reason for
them to be clandestine about

SPEAKER_02 (40:11):
it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
They

SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
just want to play with the ant pile.

SPEAKER_00 (40:14):
Right.
And because we don't see them inthe sky, I think that's a pretty
good, pretty positive indicatorthat they haven't actually
visited

SPEAKER_02 (40:20):
us.
Yeah.
All right.
That's fascinating.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Good.
I mean, is there anything youwant to touch on?
You know, I think that one thingI would touch on is this is the
third– space company that I'vehad the pleasure of building or
scaling in Jacksonville.
And Jacksonville is an area thatI think is kind of unsung or

(40:47):
underappreciated.
And I've convinced a decentnumber of folks to move here and
build really cool stuff.
So we should blame you.
You know, if you want to blameme, that's fine.
But But really Jacksonville isthis place where, you know, it's
very kind of choose your ownadventure, right?
Like it, you know, and it'sgreat for folks of almost all
kind of stages of life, right?

(41:09):
If you're an early careerindividual, we have places with
great nightlife with, you know,very walkable areas with, you
know, you can meet lots offolks.
We have both a river and anocean.
I

SPEAKER_01 (41:20):
know.

SPEAKER_00 (41:20):
And like, that's really fun.
We have an occasionally goodprofessional football team and
we're really excited for thenext season.
And like, we're always excited.
Everyone's

SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
very hopeful right now.

SPEAKER_00 (41:31):
Yes, yes.
And we have things like aprofessional orchestra and
things like that.
So we have kind of big cityaccoutrements for, honestly,
small city prices.

SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
And a small town feel.

SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Because everyone knows everybody.

SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is...
It is interesting because bothJacksonville is simultaneously,
to your point, Jen, both largeand small.
It's just like the spaceindustry, actually.
I feel like it's the sameseveral dozen people that I run
into a lot, but it's a hugeindustry across the nation.

(42:11):
And so, yeah, I think there aregreat companies here in town,
not just awesome spacecompanies, but there's really
brilliant people that have donequite amazing things.
Yeah, there's in town.

SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
A lot of talent that's here that I don't think
people recognize.
You know, one of our coworkers,she gets very angry when she
hears people say thatJacksonville could be a great
innovation hub or a great techhub because she's like, hi, does
no one realize where we areright now and what we've
accomplished here inJacksonville?

(42:44):
She is of the belief that thisis a tech center and This is an
innovation hub.
And I have to agree when youthink about the different
companies that are here inJacksonville.
There's some big names.
And we have organizations thatare doing some pretty
fascinating things likeStarcatcher.
And I just don't think we getthe notoriety and credibility

(43:06):
because it's down in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
And, you know, I think one of the things that
COVID– really showed is in thetech world, especially it was
art.
We were already sort of startingto see the cracks of the myth
that you had to be in SiliconValley to be worth anything in
tech.
Um, but COVID just absolutelyshattered that.

SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
It did.

SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
Um, and, and I, I really think that you can build
a great company with, with folksanywhere.
Um, and I, and, and you don'thave to be in Silicon Valley.
You don't have to be in NewYork.
Um, And people are doing thathere in Jacksonville.
And honestly, Silicon Valley hasgot a lot of tailwinds, but it's

(43:52):
also got a lot of headwinds froma building a team perspective,
from a cost of living and thecost of basically everything
else perspective.
And it really is important whenyou're building a company to
take care of your team and makesure that they have a good and
comfortable life.
Yeah.
And I think Jacksonville is agreat place to do that, as well

(44:15):
as having a concentration offolks that are that are really
talented.
So it's so you can hire and, youknow, we hire folks from here.
We also hire folks from all overthe nation.
And once people seeJacksonville, once we kind of
tell them about it, it's it'spretty easy.
It's pretty easy to convincethem to come.
Yeah.
Do cool stuff here.

SPEAKER_02 (44:32):
We've experienced the same.
We've located a couple of peopleand they're happy to.
Yeah.
Because there is there's thevariety, I think, that's offered
that you don't.
get in many other cities, inyour big cities, but that comes
with the huge cost of living.
So yeah, I can appreciate that.
Let's go a little bit deeperinto Andrew.
You've done some other coolstuff.

(44:56):
I have a note here that you'veactually spoken at the UN World
Space Forum.
So I want to just...
That is so intimidating.
I'm very thankful you agreed tocome and talk to us nobodies.
But now entertain us with whatthat was like.

SPEAKER_00 (45:13):
Oh, yeah.
So it's really interesting tospeak, you know, at UN-organized
events.
That particular one was in Bonn.
And, yeah, I mean, the UN is...
It's fascinating to...
be in a forum like that to talkabout an area that I'm very

(45:37):
passionate about and veryfamiliar with and to folks that
are also interested in it butmaybe don't know as much and
then have these areas ofincredible expertise and concern
about how do we make sure thatfolks all over the globe have
access or can experience thissecond golden age of space that

(46:01):
we've been talking about.
Yeah.
Um, and, and having them kind ofchallenge your, your, your
assumptions in, in those ways isreally, um, you know, it's,
it's, it's, it's an honor tokind of, to do that.
Um, and that was, that was apretty, so that was, that was a
fun one from that perspective.

SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
That I still don't know how you were able to, um, I
know you were with a bunch ofother smart people.
So I personally would have beenincredibly intimidated to be in
a room full of that many people.
smart people oh you're smartyourself obviously oh no not
downplaying that but that isthat's a different forum

(46:39):
literally that's a verydifferent stage to to be on uh
what are some of yourinsecurities when you get into a
room of people like that do youever have the i don't belong do
you feel like an imposter

SPEAKER_00 (46:51):
you know i i i was telling someone the other day
that i this, this, thisgentleman that was on a panel
with me a couple of weeks agoand he was like very nervous.
And, and I just, I told him, Isaid, Hey, I'm, I'm actually
like basically as nervous as youare.
You just, you just get used toit after a while and you just,
you know, you just kind of usethat as fuel to sort of drive

(47:15):
you forward and say, and, and befocused.
Um, I, for a long time in thisindustry, um, I was just totally
intimidated by every astronautthat I met.
I basically like had to becomegood friends with a couple of
astronauts before I was like,okay,

SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
there

SPEAKER_00 (47:37):
are people and they, you know, they're, you know,
they're sort of like, hey, just,just, just be cool, man.
You know, and yeah, and it's,it's really, you know, so
that's, that's a lot of fun.
I'm still groups of likevenerated physicists.
I'm still absolutely just like,you know, you guys are awesome.
I'm just over here.
I'm some lawyer that got lost onthe way to the courthouse and

(47:59):
wound up here doing space.
Do you feel like that group ofpeople are accepting of, of like
the work that you're doing orare they like, what are you
doing?
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's the, one ofthe things I love about the
space sector is that it is ateam sport.
Um, and actually I just, I stolethat shamelessly from Jeff
Bezos.
He gave the speech at spacesymposium, which is this big

(48:21):
conference in the space sector,like eight years ago.
And he like said that, andthere's always just really stuck
with me because it is true.
Like it is there of, of everyindustry I've ever liked.
been involved with or assistedfolks in, it is the epitome of
the phrase like, hey, if youwant to go fast, go long.
But if you want to go far, yougot to go together.
So even competitors are justsort of like the passion of it

(48:43):
all.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we're all rowing in thesame direction at the end of the
day.
You'll see, you know, you'll seeWhen SpaceX has a launch
failure, the CEO of, you know,one of their competitors, this
gentleman named Tori Bruno,like, he'll publicly and
privately be reaching out andsaying, hey, we can help you.

(49:03):
And they take that help and viceversa.
And that's...

SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
That's encouraging.

SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that is...
And, you know, in the same way,like...

SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
It should be.

SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
People have successes.
They, you know, we all try tocelebrate it, right?
Because at the end of the day,like, we're all motivated to
achieve the utopian goal visionsof space.
And we know that this is likethe first inning.
Do you guys have conversationsabout how to prevent the
dystopian images of space?

(49:33):
We have that conversation withAI all the time.
Is that happening within thespace industry too?
Yeah, you know, there's a lot offolks that care deeply about
preventing some of the negativeoutcomes with space.
There's a movie a few years agocalled Gravity that Alfonso
Cuaron that featured an eventcalled the Kessler Syndrome,

(49:56):
which is like a satellite breaksup and its pieces hit other
satellites and then that hitsmore and it's this cascade that
we're stuck in Earth.
Yeah, the pollutes low Earthorbit and we can't get out.
And so that's something that weput a lot of energy in talking
about, hey, how do we controlspace debris, both from a You
know, what are good policies forhow do we control our satellites

(50:17):
and also how do we clean up thestuff that's up there already?
There are also a lot of folksthat are very thoughtful about,
you know, weapons in space.
The United States signed atreaty in the 60s that bans
nuclear weapons from being inspace and many, many countries
have signed that treaty.
So these are the things that wethink about.

(50:38):
But now you're up there makingspace lasers.
Space flashlights.

SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
Sorry.
You amped

SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
that one up, didn't you?
Yeah, that's a good questionthat you brought to my mind,
which is the role of governmentand policy in terms of the work
that you're doing.
Do you find it helpful,intrusive?
What's the balance that youwould like to see?
Yeah.

(51:07):
and maybe this is a little bitof like the lawyer in me coming
out, but I think it's importantto view the laws and regulations
and players in the space sectoras essentially the environment,
you know, as the oceans and themountains and the air.

(51:27):
And that's the playing fieldthat we have to operate in.
Because it's easy to say, oh,you know, this...
this export control regulation.
This is getting in my way ofselling to Saudi Arabia or
whatever.
And if I could only sell toSaudi Arabia, it'd be easy.
Well, it turns out that's notreally true.

(51:47):
That's often just an excuse.
And folks really have been veryforward-leaning over my career
in space.
I've seen folks in thegovernment, in NASA, in the
Department of Defense, shiftfrom a kind of we're going to
tell you how to do it.
We're going to do it just theway we want to do it to, hey,

(52:09):
commercial industry can, youknow, has really insightful
views, can bring other resourcesto bear.
And if I can hitch a ride on thesame kind of rocket that flies,
you know, remote sensing andtelecommunication satellites to
space, I can get a cheaperrocket.
So then I can do more spaceexploration or I can do more.
And then that creates thatvirtuous cycle.

(52:31):
And so in that regard, we reallyare seeing that.
in the regulation and posture ofour customers and of our
partners in the U.S.
government.

SPEAKER_02 (52:43):
That's great.
Yeah, that's very hopeful, too.
Man, you guys really know how todo business in this industry.
Well, I mean, we have the sayingthat data science is a team
sport, and we are not in thisbusiness to cut anybody down.
We don't view competition as abad thing.
We should all be learning fromeach other because what we're
trying to accomplish— We stilldon't even know how everything

(53:04):
should be used, and thetechnology is changing on a
daily basis.
So if we're not trying to dothis together, then I think
everything just falls apart.
So it's really nice andencouraging.
I had the one question about yousaid Artemis.
I just heard there's going to besome layoffs at Boeing, and they
were actually pulling peoplefrom that program.

(53:25):
I don't know anything more aboutit.
I haven't done any of thedigging.
Have you heard?
What does this mean?
So...

SPEAKER_00 (53:33):
The Artemis program, which for those, I guess,
listening who don't know what itis, it's the program, it's the
human spaceflight program toreturn American astronauts to
the moon, to land, put folksback on the moon, and this time
to stay.
First woman, next man on themoon, and then beyond.
It's a unique program in that itsurvived...

(54:02):
the transition of multipleadministrations.
Usually, like human spaceflightprograms, like new president
comes in, they usually getredirected or substantially
changed or cut.
So it started under PresidentTrump, and then President Biden
kept it going, and now we'rehere again.

(54:23):
There are folks that...
are looking at the architectureassociated with it.
So Boeing makes a big rocketcalled the Space Launch System
or SLS.
And there's some questions aboutwhether or not that rocket is
the best rocket for doing likesustained missions to the moon.

(54:44):
I personally think that it willbe on, I personally think that
we will see that rocket fly acouple more times and likely be
the rocket that takes people tothe moon and then they'll ride
down to the surface on either aSpaceX or a Blue Origin lunar
lander.

(55:04):
But it's a vehicle that is kindof the last of its kind in that
it is largely agovernment-directed development
program compared to the moderncommercially-directed
development programs that haveyielded SpaceX's Falcon 9,

(55:25):
Rocket Labs Electron, StokesSpaces Vehicles, Blue Origins
Vehicles, all of these amazingrockets that are online or
coming online at much lowerprice points and much, in some
cases, much lower price points,much higher utilization than
what SLS is.

SPEAKER_02 (55:42):
So it's not going to slow things down.
Or do we anticipate maybe itwill?

SPEAKER_00 (55:47):
We hope it doesn't.
I would say we hope that thetransition From one
administration to the next.
Doesn't slow things down.
That's a hope that we almosteternally have in the space
industry.
Yeah.
You know, because we can do alot more with certainty than we
can with cloudiness.

SPEAKER_01 (56:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:09):
We're not always, we don't always achieve that
vision.

SPEAKER_02 (56:14):
I completely get it.
I think we feel similarly in ourindustry as well.
I think there are times wherejust having a little bit of
certainty and clarity can getyou a long way.
You just need a decision to bemade.

SPEAKER_01 (56:27):
Right,

SPEAKER_00 (56:29):
right.
Andrew, if you could give onetip, thought, piece of advice,
motivation to a guy or gal who'skind of has like an idea that
they're just scratching on apiece of paper and they don't
know what to do with it.
Like what would be your thoughtto them?
talk about the idea with as manypeople as you can.
Get out there and swing the bat.

(56:49):
Because in my experience, luckis mostly about just interacting
with as many different folks andareas as possible and then
serendipity.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
It was a pleasure.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 (57:07):
Thank you.
Well, Arash, I think it's thattime.
Are

SPEAKER_00 (57:11):
we done?
I

SPEAKER_02 (57:11):
think

SPEAKER_00 (57:12):
we are.
I can go for another hour.

SPEAKER_02 (57:13):
I know.
I have so many more questions.

SPEAKER_00 (57:16):
We didn't ask what was more interesting in space.

SPEAKER_02 (57:19):
We didn't ask what?

SPEAKER_00 (57:20):
What Andrew thought was more interesting in space.
We don't have to ask that.
We can just leave that as acliffhanger.

SPEAKER_02 (57:25):
And maybe we get to have him back.

SPEAKER_00 (57:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:27):
We can do a deeper dive.

SPEAKER_00 (57:28):
That's a deeper lift.
Because you're going into space,maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (57:33):
Okay.
Good try.

SPEAKER_00 (57:35):
Thanks.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (57:36):
Thank you.

UNKNOWN (57:37):
So...

SPEAKER_02 (57:37):
What was the most, I don't know, encouraging thing
you've heard today?

SPEAKER_00 (57:41):
Well, I'll say this.
This was an aha moment whenAndrew was talking towards the
end there and he was discussingthat space is part of our
environment.
I don't know why that light bulbnever clicked for me.
It's like the oceans or the airwe breathe or the trees.

(58:02):
It's

SPEAKER_02 (58:02):
there, even though you can't see it.

SPEAKER_00 (58:04):
Because even though you can express the beauty of
space, that's sort of like, ohyeah, it is our environment.
Earth exists within this thingcalled space.

SPEAKER_02 (58:13):
Right.
No, I really liked hearing thatit is a nice reminder.
You don't think of it like that.
And I think it's probablybecause the movies and the TV
shows that make this...
So unreal.
You can feel the fantasy in itand you have this hope that it
is real, but then you don'tactually, you don't get to walk

(58:33):
out your front door and see themoon that's just right across
the street.

SPEAKER_01 (58:37):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (58:39):
yeah.
in the world because they're

SPEAKER_01 (58:58):
making...
Just some of the money.

SPEAKER_02 (58:59):
Just some of the money.
I mean, that's entirely fair,too.
Everyone should get to maketheir own.
I hope that our listenersrealize that you can do
anything.
I mean, if Andrew can come frombeing a goalkeeper...
for his high school soccer team,transition into pole vaulting,
to get a degree in physics, tobecome a patent lawyer.

(59:21):
Literally, for him, the sky isthe limit.

SPEAKER_00 (59:24):
Oh, that's a nice one.
Good job.
All right, I think that's awrap.

SPEAKER_02 (59:29):
I think that's a wrap.

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