July 19, 2022 • 14 mins
B Wise & Tino have a D&M with psychiatrist Dr. Xavier Mulenga. They chat about mental health for men growing up in cultural households, substance abuse, fame and protecting your energy.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Back it up the best moments from the week on Keita.
This is by your Side with be Wise.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back to buy your Side.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Now we have a very special one and this is
we're doing things a little differently tonight now. Mental health
two words that have become more prominent in society today
as something we need to identify and recognize and as
the discussion around the topic becomes less taboo, we aim
to find out more with a very special guest today,
doctor Xavier Malenga. So welcome to our show.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now, thank you very much for having me, a pleasure
to be here. How have you been, man, How are
things on your end? You know, when you work in
mental health, it's busy and right now people aren't coping
and winter is always our worst time. But otherwise I'm
good though.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Jumping in very quickly for our listeners who are hearing
from you for the first time, if you can tell
us a little bit about yourself and tell us a
bit more about the field that you specialize in as well.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
My name is doctor Xavier Malenga, So I'm actually a
psychiatrist with a specialization in complex trauma, addictions and eating disorders.
So initia shou stay. I'm from Zambia. Came to Australia
when US nineteen two thousand and four, so way back,
I feel like I'm all those old souls now, you know,
first generation immigrants settled in Oh yeah, exactly. In terms
of credentials, first when I came, I did a medical
(01:08):
degree in Brisbane Griffith University for four years. Then I
went to Wollongong actually to do med school there Wollongong. Yeah,
I mean it was my parents just said, hey, if
you get into med school, amazing, find the cheapest med
schoo in Australia. Because an intentional student.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So my parents said, we don't care if you're smart,
but if we can't afford it, you can't go anywhere.
So I was gonna be a punasists if they couldn't
catch the checks. But yeah, will going end up being
it and was probably the best decision I made. And
then from there I finished up in twenty eleven, so
since twenty twelve been a doctor and I got into
psychiatry training twenty fourteen and only became a psychiatrist last year.
So my one year university was just last week of
being a psychiatrist.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Congratulations, congratulations, and yeah, it's great to also hear your
story as well and just hear your development.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But I think one of the reasons why you know,
I approach you when I was talking to you, when
I was driven by your content, is because you're talking
about a lot of topics that men, especially men from
ethnic backgrounds about. So I guess, just broadly, speaking from
your background, why is it important for people from these
type of communities to have mental health checkups? Do you
think there's enough like services or access to the you know,
(02:11):
to these type of resources.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I think it's very important for especially ethnic people, especially
men as well, to access it because our mental health
is something that we just don't have enough education on.
Lots of stigma and lots of taboo. And it's interesting,
despite all that, we actually know we're not doing that well.
You know, even though I always say, ask any ethnic
person or even ethnic men, how you're going, it's always
I'm good, especially men, I'm good. I've yet to meet
(02:32):
a black man who told me I'm not good unless
they know you so well and you can have open
discussions others. The first thing Ivenantino's ask me how you're going,
I'm good. How you're going're good? I'm good.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It feels like it's like in a probre you know,
where you say you know what, I'm not doing good.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
It's just like breaking, and it's like people have to
they get scared. I think we're just not ready for
that emotional vulnerability, especially for men. What does it mean
to be not okay emotionally? It's easier for us to
say I'm not okay financially, or my life that single
didn't hit the way I wanted to hit, or this
podcast didn't get the many likes. When we do objective
markers in business or things easy to talk about, it's us.
(03:07):
We're not hitting the marks we want to hit. Emotionally
very tricky. So the risky part of not checking in
or getting on top of that is you can develop
mental illness, and most of people already have that or
they even have very problematic coping strategies. The second part
you asked about whether we have enough pieces, and yes
and no. So I do think we have enough resources,
but people don't even access the resources now. So let's
say if I told you we had enough multicultural therapists
(03:29):
or psychiatrists we would be on the limiting factor to
enter those services because many people don't. Yeah, So that's
that's what I was going to say, because right now
I could argue that a lot more and more psychologists
because most people don't need a psychiatrists if you need me,
I mean, things have up the antia bit, you know,
but most people with a good GP, A good psychologists
and good social supports, you can be just fine. Okay,
So most psychologists every year coming out, are they more
(03:50):
people going to mental services? Ethnic people better? Boy, it's increasing.
So that's what that's the disconnects. So that's how I
tend to phrase.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It now today.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
There were so many questions and things that was coming
to mind there as we're talking, and even like just
access as well that you mentioned and having access, I
wanted to ask you a question. I find that some
things that occur and things that you know, we sort
of carry on or carry's baggage, can also come from
certain things that occur in cultural backgrounds, particularly in our upbringing.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
You know, as we all assimilate, we all migrants here.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Do you find that when we having these discussions and
when we're talking, someone's opening up, do you tend to
find that culture has a lot to do with these
issues or any baggage that's carried.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
One hundred percent. I always have to bring up culture,
usually secondary because people get very protective of their cultures,
you know, so one hundred percent. So immigrants of any
immigrant heritage, second generation, you're actually more likely to get
a mental illness just because of the stress of being
a and immigrant. So that disconnect of your the minority
from being a majority, or their cultural disconnect. So what
worked in Ghana, Zambia, Zimbabwe doesn't culturally always work in Australia.
(04:53):
And then there's that cultural disconnect and a lot of
other taboo things around how we talk around let's say
mental health issues. Right, So if they do come up
and you're getting depressed, we don't use that lingo back home.
So do you start using the lingu in Australia and
you know white because now you know it's like depression
is white people problems. That's something I hear quite a
lot culturally.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Can I build on that very quickly? Like I can't
help it say, like I felt that a lot in
the household. You know, my background grew up in a
in a mixed bi racial relationship, but tended to see
like you know, the man in the house kind of
like just dismiss those issues.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
It's like, you know, like we don't deal with those
kinds of things. You know, we don't.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I watched that and then it sort of passed down,
you know, And is there a better way to navigate
around these things?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yes, there is one hundred percent. I think we have
to you know, you have to almost name them. So
you have to talk about it a bit more because
the way it gets passed on initially is like your
father's like, ay men, don't cry. You're the man of
the house. So it gets put with all these positives.
You're now leading the pack. You're the next generation.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I'm more fast at your symbol. You know. It's like
it's crazy, you know. And then the problem with that
is it means then you have to become this storic
black guy, which we like Wukanda forever. And even then
I joke with Black Panther, no person should haven't date
that gay the most keygy, insecure guy. I'm the first
to say you heard it first. You know, rip Eric Bozman,
(06:08):
great actor, but I'm saying that he is not a
great example. If anything, kill Mon was a bit better
because you knew where he stood on things. It was
more honest. This is the bad guy, but he definitely
you know. So that's the thing that gets taken in.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
We touch on that a little bit today as well
about sometimes has their own good guys story and they
come across the white Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Interesting, very interesting, man.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
This is a.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Conversation because I'm trying to conduct this taking a little
It's because everything that you're saying is so relatable because
you know, especially with the pressures coming to Australia, especially
as an immigrant. You know, you have the whole world
on your shoulder, so you have that, and then you
also have external factors and you just end up in
a situation where you feel like you're lost, you know
(06:51):
what I mean? And I see that especially Look, we
grew up in Australia. We were able to sort of
grow up with the network. But if you cut me
and you're alone and you have that pressure, and you
always say, are expect people come to this country by
themselves the amount of pressure that they have to deal with.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
For me, I didn't even know if I could do that.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, here we're talking about mental health and we're still
joined by doctor Xavior Malanga.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Next question that I had for you was talking about
the male ego. And I know it's a large conversation
in itself, but I just wanted to ask you from
your experience, what is it? How do we check our ego?
And I guess what happens when it's left unchecked?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, So usually I always break it down, like what's ego? Anyway?
It's like some it's the way you feel in terms
of self importance and the thing with the male ego,
it's a good thing and also has it also can
be dangerous. Everything is a double sword. And when you
become a psychiatrist. So usually with ego, especially male ego,
it's very much based off external validation. You doing something
and getting a reward for it. So the easy example
(07:44):
I can say is, let's say you're a businessman. Oh no, no,
let's say a musician. Actually I do have you here
your app You resonate a single goals. Everyone's like they
likes it, They say, hey, man, you're the man. You
try and keep doing that and feeding that loop. Okay,
but then it sort of makes you a bit of
external cause what you do is what's being praised not
you proceed. So sometimes it's actually a distance from what
you're creating. So whether you're a businessman making these millions
(08:05):
or whatever, people praise you for what you can do.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
See even what you've just said, even because a lot
of our listeners either as well in the music industry
or we obviously support the scene here from a music
industry perspective or even aspire to do that. And one
thing that you said as well, even from being an
artist and being a musician, one thing that we kind
of get and it's always like that rule is it's
like keep the team around you grounded, keep yourself grounded.
(08:30):
Try and because the praise and over praise for things
that you do can blow up that ego. During twenty
twenty twenty twenty one, when we saw a lot of
musicians and artists really get hit by not being able
to be out there do the work that they do,
be on stages, be performing. So all that kind of
praise and all that those comments and that that builds
(08:51):
up ego slow down and you had to really sort
of think about look at yourself now.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's just like, so where's my self worth? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So like what would you say to an artists and
things like that, who are healing our self with or
can avoid those traps.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Oh yeah, it's a good one because going back to
the pandemic heres. That's so when I start seeing more
artists and musicians in priorate practice or coming into right
because you're right, just sort of, it's interesting, becau it's
just the economy of that everything shut down. You can't
do shows, but all of us are binging and gain
bio and music and art, but we're not giving you
any money. It's like, hey, here's your job, seeker. We
want to do any shows. But man, I love your
last album Jamie was popping.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's to give them some Yeah, exactly right. But then
people came in. I think the pitfalls are even if
you have your team. I think in those places people
felt that there was nothing you could do. Your team,
what we're going to do? You know, performing? You got
no shows? I guess you catch up, and I think
a lot of people sadly need gain professional help. I
do think there's a point where if you've got a
solid team, good friends, good foundations and boundaries, you'll be
fine more for the most parts. But a lot of
(09:48):
people that tank. When you feel that feeling, you might
have to get professional help because it can lead into
drinking and substance use. That became a big gunging the pandemic,
especially a lot of creatives. And also sadly, I guess
the entertainment industry linked with the hospitality.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's true, there's strong links with that, and it's like
part of touring and being on the road these things.
Is there for you, is part of the business to
make it go? I guess not everyone who does, but
it's not it's not spoken about. And then like you
just said as well, we can end up, you know,
turning to other substances or things like that to sort
of feel that void.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
All right, So next question I have for you, and
I want to thank you also for this time, because
as I said, I think that our listeners really need
this and it's great to get this perspective. But the
next question that I had for you is about creating barriers.
And I think this is very important for me because
I felt like, well, I found out that I was
a people pleaser and I was just overly trying to
make people feel good, even if that meant that that
(10:42):
situation was detrimental for me.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It took from you training.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Maybe since the beginning of the year, I really focused on, Okay,
what makes me happy was good for my mental health.
And sometimes what that means is that I can't talk
to this person, or this person needs to not be
in my space, or I have to remove myself. Yes,
I need to create barriers that I hold you for me,
So talk to us a little bit about you know,
creating barriers.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
What does that mean? And I guess why is it important? Okay, good,
very important? And I always think you need to protect
your emotional space. That's what boundaries are there for. But essentially,
when I talk about boundaries with people, you're protecting yourself
either from emotional stress, physical or even so of sexual harm.
You know that mostly ds to most of women though,
but still lots of men can be in that situation.
So the reason why boundaries are very important is a
(11:27):
protect your mental well being. And it's also good to
discuss them with people because sometimes the way we set
up boundaries as men, especially, we're too blunt, like you
know what you're out. Another person doesn't know where they
get cut off from and what happened, even though it
might be good for you. Sometimes it's good for you
to sit down and say, hey, what makes you happy?
Like you said, why am I setting up this boundary?
And if I spoken to this person in a way
where we discussed it, because for you know, in your head,
(11:48):
you think you've mentioned to this personal hinted, but they
haven't actually sat down with you and said, hey, this
boundary is that and they can actually respect that, then
you find you haven't lost a friend. It doesn't always
work out that way, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Most sometimes it doesn't always work out. Do you try
to set a boundary people to take that offense to
it in a way, but it's like no, Like you
just got a lot going on over there, and you
know what I mean, So when you deal with that
over there, I don't need that over here. So like
maybe I'll take a little bit of a stone approach
to it, but I really have.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
A beliebor in creating those boundaries from time to time I.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Think we should always I always review it as well.
Like well, in the same like for me, let me
put my example, because something's easier with examples. So for me,
being like a black psychiatrist who's seen socially a bit younger.
I meet lots of people. So if you want to
get in your DMS and start talking like hey, this
suicidal thoughts, I'm like, hey, I'm just here watching Netflix.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So it's like I always say, So, that's why I
didn't create separate Instagram pages like one which is just
me and my comedy, and another one's going to be
actually a professional page. But then then one before emergencies,
because the best way, there's no one who's going to
be on my team to deal with these crises. So
that's a bit boundary for me and my team because
and even for your partner, Like when I come home
when I was dating, I'll come say, how'd you work up?
This person came in and they were drunk driving. This
(12:52):
person tried to kill himself and this and that. It's
too heavy, you know. That's why I have therapist. Yeah,
you get in your own space and things. So it's
a lot of different levels. But going back to what
you said, definitely, if the other person takes it the
wrong way, most people do Actually they don't respond word
to boundary setting. And I think it's just where if
you know why, you're doing it for yourself and it's
beneficial and helps you mental health wise, then it's justified.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
That's true. Thank you so much. Like there's so much
to take in.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I feel like we can continue this conversation and we
could all go on and everyone listening.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I feel like we just got a free session. Let's
take take your breath, breathe, let's breathe in for yourself.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
If anyone likes to speak or get to know you more,
anyone on social media, you can be found or not.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yet, but I'm going to expand. But I guess normally
in terms of work, I work at north Side Practice,
so it's a no cyclinic in Saint Leonard's. That's where
my office is excellent. And usually I always tell people
you can't need a GP reference to get to see me.
But usually, like I said, it's it's not always that
you need to say a psychiatrist, but we are there.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Amazing Doctor Zavie, thank you so much for joining us
on the show today.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
We much appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Your guests to Sean would love to have you back
at some point out of the track.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
We're definitely bringing your I'm always ready.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Excellent guys. This is by your Side.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
This is by your Side with b Wise. Hey, you've
just been listening to the Back It Up podcast, the
best moments from the week at CAEDA.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
To hear more, tune into CATA on DAB or
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Check it out right here on iHeartRadio.
Back it up the best moments from the week on Keita.
This is by your Side with be Wise.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome back to buy your Side.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Now we have a very special one and this is
we're doing things a little differently tonight now. Mental health
two words that have become more prominent in society today
as something we need to identify and recognize and as
the discussion around the topic becomes less taboo, we aim
to find out more with a very special guest today,
doctor Xavier Malenga. So welcome to our show.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now, thank you very much for having me, a pleasure
to be here. How have you been, man, How are
things on your end? You know, when you work in
mental health, it's busy and right now people aren't coping
and winter is always our worst time. But otherwise I'm
good though.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Jumping in very quickly for our listeners who are hearing
from you for the first time, if you can tell
us a little bit about yourself and tell us a
bit more about the field that you specialize in as well.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
My name is doctor Xavier Malenga, So I'm actually a
psychiatrist with a specialization in complex trauma, addictions and eating disorders.
So initia shou stay. I'm from Zambia. Came to Australia
when US nineteen two thousand and four, so way back,
I feel like I'm all those old souls now, you know,
first generation immigrants settled in Oh yeah, exactly. In terms
of credentials, first when I came, I did a medical
(01:08):
degree in Brisbane Griffith University for four years. Then I
went to Wollongong actually to do med school there Wollongong. Yeah,
I mean it was my parents just said, hey, if
you get into med school, amazing, find the cheapest med
schoo in Australia. Because an intentional student.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So my parents said, we don't care if you're smart,
but if we can't afford it, you can't go anywhere.
So I was gonna be a punasists if they couldn't
catch the checks. But yeah, will going end up being
it and was probably the best decision I made. And
then from there I finished up in twenty eleven, so
since twenty twelve been a doctor and I got into
psychiatry training twenty fourteen and only became a psychiatrist last year.
So my one year university was just last week of
being a psychiatrist.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Congratulations, congratulations, and yeah, it's great to also hear your
story as well and just hear your development.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But I think one of the reasons why you know,
I approach you when I was talking to you, when
I was driven by your content, is because you're talking
about a lot of topics that men, especially men from
ethnic backgrounds about. So I guess, just broadly, speaking from
your background, why is it important for people from these
type of communities to have mental health checkups? Do you
think there's enough like services or access to the you know,
(02:11):
to these type of resources.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I think it's very important for especially ethnic people, especially
men as well, to access it because our mental health
is something that we just don't have enough education on.
Lots of stigma and lots of taboo. And it's interesting,
despite all that, we actually know we're not doing that well.
You know, even though I always say, ask any ethnic
person or even ethnic men, how you're going, it's always
I'm good, especially men, I'm good. I've yet to meet
(02:32):
a black man who told me I'm not good unless
they know you so well and you can have open
discussions others. The first thing Ivenantino's ask me how you're going,
I'm good. How you're going're good? I'm good.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It feels like it's like in a probre you know,
where you say you know what, I'm not doing good.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
It's just like breaking, and it's like people have to
they get scared. I think we're just not ready for
that emotional vulnerability, especially for men. What does it mean
to be not okay emotionally? It's easier for us to
say I'm not okay financially, or my life that single
didn't hit the way I wanted to hit, or this
podcast didn't get the many likes. When we do objective
markers in business or things easy to talk about, it's us.
(03:07):
We're not hitting the marks we want to hit. Emotionally
very tricky. So the risky part of not checking in
or getting on top of that is you can develop
mental illness, and most of people already have that or
they even have very problematic coping strategies. The second part
you asked about whether we have enough pieces, and yes
and no. So I do think we have enough resources,
but people don't even access the resources now. So let's
say if I told you we had enough multicultural therapists
(03:29):
or psychiatrists we would be on the limiting factor to
enter those services because many people don't. Yeah, So that's
that's what I was going to say, because right now
I could argue that a lot more and more psychologists
because most people don't need a psychiatrists if you need me,
I mean, things have up the antia bit, you know,
but most people with a good GP, A good psychologists
and good social supports, you can be just fine. Okay,
So most psychologists every year coming out, are they more
(03:50):
people going to mental services? Ethnic people better? Boy, it's increasing.
So that's what that's the disconnects. So that's how I
tend to phrase.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
It now today.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
There were so many questions and things that was coming
to mind there as we're talking, and even like just
access as well that you mentioned and having access, I
wanted to ask you a question. I find that some
things that occur and things that you know, we sort
of carry on or carry's baggage, can also come from
certain things that occur in cultural backgrounds, particularly in our upbringing.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
You know, as we all assimilate, we all migrants here.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Do you find that when we having these discussions and
when we're talking, someone's opening up, do you tend to
find that culture has a lot to do with these
issues or any baggage that's carried.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
One hundred percent. I always have to bring up culture,
usually secondary because people get very protective of their cultures,
you know, so one hundred percent. So immigrants of any
immigrant heritage, second generation, you're actually more likely to get
a mental illness just because of the stress of being
a and immigrant. So that disconnect of your the minority
from being a majority, or their cultural disconnect. So what
worked in Ghana, Zambia, Zimbabwe doesn't culturally always work in Australia.
(04:53):
And then there's that cultural disconnect and a lot of
other taboo things around how we talk around let's say
mental health issues. Right, So if they do come up
and you're getting depressed, we don't use that lingo back home.
So do you start using the lingu in Australia and
you know white because now you know it's like depression
is white people problems. That's something I hear quite a
lot culturally.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Can I build on that very quickly? Like I can't
help it say, like I felt that a lot in
the household. You know, my background grew up in a
in a mixed bi racial relationship, but tended to see
like you know, the man in the house kind of
like just dismiss those issues.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
It's like, you know, like we don't deal with those
kinds of things. You know, we don't.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I watched that and then it sort of passed down,
you know, And is there a better way to navigate
around these things?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yes, there is one hundred percent. I think we have
to you know, you have to almost name them. So
you have to talk about it a bit more because
the way it gets passed on initially is like your
father's like, ay men, don't cry. You're the man of
the house. So it gets put with all these positives.
You're now leading the pack. You're the next generation.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I'm more fast at your symbol. You know. It's like
it's crazy, you know. And then the problem with that
is it means then you have to become this storic
black guy, which we like Wukanda forever. And even then
I joke with Black Panther, no person should haven't date
that gay the most keygy, insecure guy. I'm the first
to say you heard it first. You know, rip Eric Bozman,
(06:08):
great actor, but I'm saying that he is not a
great example. If anything, kill Mon was a bit better
because you knew where he stood on things. It was
more honest. This is the bad guy, but he definitely
you know. So that's the thing that gets taken in.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
We touch on that a little bit today as well
about sometimes has their own good guys story and they
come across the white Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Interesting, very interesting, man.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
This is a.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Conversation because I'm trying to conduct this taking a little
It's because everything that you're saying is so relatable because
you know, especially with the pressures coming to Australia, especially
as an immigrant. You know, you have the whole world
on your shoulder, so you have that, and then you
also have external factors and you just end up in
a situation where you feel like you're lost, you know
(06:51):
what I mean? And I see that especially Look, we
grew up in Australia. We were able to sort of
grow up with the network. But if you cut me
and you're alone and you have that pressure, and you
always say, are expect people come to this country by
themselves the amount of pressure that they have to deal with.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
For me, I didn't even know if I could do that.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, here we're talking about mental health and we're still
joined by doctor Xavior Malanga.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Next question that I had for you was talking about
the male ego. And I know it's a large conversation
in itself, but I just wanted to ask you from
your experience, what is it? How do we check our ego?
And I guess what happens when it's left unchecked?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, So usually I always break it down, like what's ego? Anyway?
It's like some it's the way you feel in terms
of self importance and the thing with the male ego,
it's a good thing and also has it also can
be dangerous. Everything is a double sword. And when you
become a psychiatrist. So usually with ego, especially male ego,
it's very much based off external validation. You doing something
and getting a reward for it. So the easy example
(07:44):
I can say is, let's say you're a businessman. Oh no, no,
let's say a musician. Actually I do have you here
your app You resonate a single goals. Everyone's like they
likes it, They say, hey, man, you're the man. You
try and keep doing that and feeding that loop. Okay,
but then it sort of makes you a bit of
external cause what you do is what's being praised not
you proceed. So sometimes it's actually a distance from what
you're creating. So whether you're a businessman making these millions
(08:05):
or whatever, people praise you for what you can do.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
See even what you've just said, even because a lot
of our listeners either as well in the music industry
or we obviously support the scene here from a music
industry perspective or even aspire to do that. And one
thing that you said as well, even from being an
artist and being a musician, one thing that we kind
of get and it's always like that rule is it's
like keep the team around you grounded, keep yourself grounded.
(08:30):
Try and because the praise and over praise for things
that you do can blow up that ego. During twenty
twenty twenty twenty one, when we saw a lot of
musicians and artists really get hit by not being able
to be out there do the work that they do,
be on stages, be performing. So all that kind of
praise and all that those comments and that that builds
(08:51):
up ego slow down and you had to really sort
of think about look at yourself now.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's just like, so where's my self worth? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So like what would you say to an artists and
things like that, who are healing our self with or
can avoid those traps.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Oh yeah, it's a good one because going back to
the pandemic heres. That's so when I start seeing more
artists and musicians in priorate practice or coming into right
because you're right, just sort of, it's interesting, becau it's
just the economy of that everything shut down. You can't
do shows, but all of us are binging and gain
bio and music and art, but we're not giving you
any money. It's like, hey, here's your job, seeker. We
want to do any shows. But man, I love your
last album Jamie was popping.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's to give them some Yeah, exactly right. But then
people came in. I think the pitfalls are even if
you have your team. I think in those places people
felt that there was nothing you could do. Your team,
what we're going to do? You know, performing? You got
no shows? I guess you catch up, and I think
a lot of people sadly need gain professional help. I
do think there's a point where if you've got a
solid team, good friends, good foundations and boundaries, you'll be
fine more for the most parts. But a lot of
(09:48):
people that tank. When you feel that feeling, you might
have to get professional help because it can lead into
drinking and substance use. That became a big gunging the pandemic,
especially a lot of creatives. And also sadly, I guess
the entertainment industry linked with the hospitality.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It's true, there's strong links with that, and it's like
part of touring and being on the road these things.
Is there for you, is part of the business to
make it go? I guess not everyone who does, but
it's not it's not spoken about. And then like you
just said as well, we can end up, you know,
turning to other substances or things like that to sort
of feel that void.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
All right, So next question I have for you, and
I want to thank you also for this time, because
as I said, I think that our listeners really need
this and it's great to get this perspective. But the
next question that I had for you is about creating barriers.
And I think this is very important for me because
I felt like, well, I found out that I was
a people pleaser and I was just overly trying to
make people feel good, even if that meant that that
(10:42):
situation was detrimental for me.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It took from you training.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Maybe since the beginning of the year, I really focused on, Okay,
what makes me happy was good for my mental health.
And sometimes what that means is that I can't talk
to this person, or this person needs to not be
in my space, or I have to remove myself. Yes,
I need to create barriers that I hold you for me,
So talk to us a little bit about you know,
creating barriers.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
What does that mean? And I guess why is it important? Okay, good,
very important? And I always think you need to protect
your emotional space. That's what boundaries are there for. But essentially,
when I talk about boundaries with people, you're protecting yourself
either from emotional stress, physical or even so of sexual harm.
You know that mostly ds to most of women though,
but still lots of men can be in that situation.
So the reason why boundaries are very important is a
(11:27):
protect your mental well being. And it's also good to
discuss them with people because sometimes the way we set
up boundaries as men, especially, we're too blunt, like you
know what you're out. Another person doesn't know where they
get cut off from and what happened, even though it
might be good for you. Sometimes it's good for you
to sit down and say, hey, what makes you happy?
Like you said, why am I setting up this boundary?
And if I spoken to this person in a way
where we discussed it, because for you know, in your head,
(11:48):
you think you've mentioned to this personal hinted, but they
haven't actually sat down with you and said, hey, this
boundary is that and they can actually respect that, then
you find you haven't lost a friend. It doesn't always
work out that way, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Most sometimes it doesn't always work out. Do you try
to set a boundary people to take that offense to
it in a way, but it's like no, Like you
just got a lot going on over there, and you
know what I mean, So when you deal with that
over there, I don't need that over here. So like
maybe I'll take a little bit of a stone approach
to it, but I really have.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
A beliebor in creating those boundaries from time to time I.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Think we should always I always review it as well.
Like well, in the same like for me, let me
put my example, because something's easier with examples. So for me,
being like a black psychiatrist who's seen socially a bit younger.
I meet lots of people. So if you want to
get in your DMS and start talking like hey, this
suicidal thoughts, I'm like, hey, I'm just here watching Netflix.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So it's like I always say, So, that's why I
didn't create separate Instagram pages like one which is just
me and my comedy, and another one's going to be
actually a professional page. But then then one before emergencies,
because the best way, there's no one who's going to
be on my team to deal with these crises. So
that's a bit boundary for me and my team because
and even for your partner, Like when I come home
when I was dating, I'll come say, how'd you work up?
This person came in and they were drunk driving. This
(12:52):
person tried to kill himself and this and that. It's
too heavy, you know. That's why I have therapist. Yeah,
you get in your own space and things. So it's
a lot of different levels. But going back to what
you said, definitely, if the other person takes it the
wrong way, most people do Actually they don't respond word
to boundary setting. And I think it's just where if
you know why, you're doing it for yourself and it's
beneficial and helps you mental health wise, then it's justified.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
That's true. Thank you so much. Like there's so much
to take in.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I feel like we can continue this conversation and we
could all go on and everyone listening.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I feel like we just got a free session. Let's
take take your breath, breathe, let's breathe in for yourself.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
If anyone likes to speak or get to know you more,
anyone on social media, you can be found or not.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yet, but I'm going to expand. But I guess normally
in terms of work, I work at north Side Practice,
so it's a no cyclinic in Saint Leonard's. That's where
my office is excellent. And usually I always tell people
you can't need a GP reference to get to see me.
But usually, like I said, it's it's not always that
you need to say a psychiatrist, but we are there.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Amazing Doctor Zavie, thank you so much for joining us
on the show today.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
We much appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Your guests to Sean would love to have you back
at some point out of the track.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
We're definitely bringing your I'm always ready.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Excellent guys. This is by your Side.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
This is by your Side with b Wise. Hey, you've
just been listening to the Back It Up podcast, the
best moments from the week at CAEDA.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
To hear more, tune into CATA on DAB or
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Check it out right here on iHeartRadio.
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