April 13, 2025 • 25 mins
Craig Gillman believes he might have the best job in ACT government, and after listening to his vision for Canberra's city center, you might agree. As CEO of the City Renewal Authority, Gillman is at the forefront of transforming the capital's urban core into something truly dynamic, inclusive, and competitive.
Forget outdated stereotypes about Canberra being dull or family focused. Today's capital boasts the youngest demographic profile of any Australian city, with an increasingly multicultural population hungry for experiences. The Authority's work spans from major land developments like the former cloverleaf site near QT Hotel to place-based interventions such as the Braddon Streetscapes improvements and the exciting Namawari Park along the waterfront.
The numbers speak for themselves – city visitation increased by 30% between 2023 and 2024, with patterns shifting later into afternoons as work habits change. Have a listen to this exciting podcast for more on the future of the city that we love!
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byCraig Gilman, the Chief
Executive of the ACTGovernment's City Renewal
Authority.
Craig, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's a pleasure to be here, Greg.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So the City Renewal Authority is well known around
town, but many people perhapsdon't understand what it is that
you do.
So what's the role of the CRAin terms of both sort of
development but also cityactivations?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's quite a broad role.
So we're not a core asset ownermaintainer that's our good
friends at City Services andTransport Canberra.
But we do do land development.
So most recently we've done thepatch of land that is now in
(00:57):
front of the QT, which was theformer cloverleaf, and that's
going to be a fantasticdevelopment with 500 residents,
a hotel and commercial.
But we also do targeted,place-based interventions where
we think we can change thenature of a place, and an
example of that is the BraddonStreetscapes.
There was nowhere to cross onLonsdale Street.
(01:17):
Now we've narrowed thosecrossing points, put the
crossings in Mort Street.
Similarly, we've got we'rereally excited about Namawari
Park, which is an actingwaterfront and that's a 50 metre
park, 50 metre radius park thatruns around the whole
waterfront.
We were gifted the nameNamawari by the Ngunnawal people
(01:38):
, so we're quite privileged withthat.
We're just this month we shouldbe completing the temporary
park and the reason it'stemporary is that's lake infill
and we need to make sure it'sstable before we put structures
on it.
And we look to be in market forthe permanent park in the
coming months, um, and, if theengineering goes well, start
before um, christmas.
(02:00):
Uh, so we do that.
But then we also activate thoseplaces through events winter in
the city, la Fiesta in CityWest, lunar New Year in Dixon.
So it's quite a broad range ofthings.
I'll tell a story, actually.
I met Minister Patterson forthe first time as we were
launching Lunar New Year on theThursday before, and I've never
(02:25):
met him before, and so Iintroduced myself Craig Gilman,
ceo of City Renewal, and helooked at me and he said you
know what?
I think you've got the best jobin ACT government.
And I went probably right,probably right.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
So a lot of really interesting things in there a
bit of development, a bit ofactivation, some events, all of
which help sort of bring peopleinto the city centre.
But, overall, what's yourpurpose, what's your vision?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
We want to make the city centre and our precinct
dynamic.
It doesn't always have thereputation Canberra doesn't
always have that reputation ofbeing dynamic.
Which is very unfair of course,which is entirely unfair.
I'll rattle off some stats.
We are the youngest demographicof any city in Australia.
(03:12):
In the last 25 years, which waswhen I first came to Canberra,
the multicultural aspect of oursociety has exploded.
So the population has reallychanged.
It's now an experience-drivenpopulation.
They want experiences.
It's now an experience-drivenpopulation.
They want experiences.
It's not just about families.
What's the old thing aboutNappy Valley and Tuggeranong?
Right?
So there are still families,but our marketing tells us that
(03:35):
one of our biggest marketsegments and in fact, our best
spenders in the precinct, arethe family stimulators.
So they're people like me whobring my kids in on the weekend,
and that's really important.
So dynamic, inclusive.
There is a really rich theme inCanberra about all tribes
(03:55):
together.
It is really and you only needto look around the world at the
moment and things are gettingnastier and the importance of
that inclusivity cannot beoverstated.
But we've also got to becompetitive, right?
So we want the economicvibrancy in the city, we want
the development, we want thebusinesses, um, and we want them
to succeed, so that in thosethree things you know, um,
(04:19):
dynamic, inclusive andcompetitive, yeah, now you've
mentioned the precinct a coupleof times, but that's not the
whole city.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Right CRA is focused very much on the inner city.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yes, correct.
So if you think about theexisting light rail corridor
from Epic down through Dixon,through Hague Park, to Lonsdale
Street in Braddon and then tothe Bulb, as you might recognise
, of the city.
So that's our precinct.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
OK, so pretty much city centre Braddon down to New
Action.
But given the fact that manypeople are working from home and
there's a migration of shoppingto outlying suburbs, or indeed
online, does the CBD stillmatter?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Talk about online and does the CBD still matter?
Talk about online.
Two years ago.
We collect spend data as bestwe can, or footfall data.
Two years ago and this willreflect on me and my lack of
engagement with current trendsthere was a monstrous spike in
(05:23):
bricks and mortar attendance andspend in October and I couldn't
work it out.
It was Black Friday.
So even sales that are marketedas online have a huge impact on
the bricks and mortar andthat's absolutely true.
But with the we also, Imentioned, we capture the
(05:46):
visitation data, and thevisitation data between 2023 and
2024 has gone up by about 30%.
So the time that you, I, others, spend in the city has gone up
by about 30% just in that year.
So that's really strong.
Um, it's also.
It has changed up by about 30%just in that year.
(06:06):
So that's really strong.
It's also it has changed.
You mentioned working from home.
The visitation has shiftedlater in the day to 2, 3 o'clock
in the afternoon, but there areplenty of people arriving in
the city and, you know, enjoyingthe city.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, well, that's good to hear, and I guess what,
as we're evolving as a society,we're more into certain
experiences, as you say, perhapssort of a more traditional
bricks and mortar retailexperience, if we're coming in
later in the day.
What's the future of the CBDlook like from your point of
view?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Well, there is that experience dynamic, and I always
tell my story like, from yourpoint of view.
Well, there is that experience,dynamic, um, and you know I
always tell my story, um, it'sour city center.
I live in bungalow, it's mycity center.
I'm in here nearly everyweekend enjoying something in
the whether it's restaurants,it's bar, but in here every
weekend.
So the city in Canberra is theeconomic engine room of the ACT.
(07:08):
It by far and away delivers themost gross value add of any
precinct.
I mentioned before socialcohesion and inclusion.
This is really important thatwe've got somewhere we can all
come to celebrate, protest, meet, dwell.
It's really important.
From that social cohesion, abit of a change is the city
(07:32):
needs to provide more housing.
I mentioned the demographicsbefore have shifted so we will
have a real focus on buildingthe residential community of the
city over the coming years andthat's really important to
diversify the visitation to thecity so you get out of this nine
to five paradigm into an 18-7paradigm.
(07:56):
So it's really important you'vegot those diversity of uses and
the population to support theactivity in the city.
I mentioned my experience.
It's the city centre for theregion, so it's where I come on
weekends I bring my kids in andthis is shown in the spend data
so we can track incoming spend.
So out of the precinct into andin Braddon the highest incoming
(08:21):
spend comes from where I comefrom, so it might be me in
Queanbeyan surrounds, soBangalore, and that was 11
months of last year.
That was the highest and oneother month that was yes.
So it really does prove thatIKEA model of the drive market
and it's really important.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So it's really interesting that you've got such
an influx of people from outQueanbeyan way and yourself, of
course, coming in on theweekends into Braddon.
One of the challenges that Ioften hear about is parking and
the accessibility of the CBD inBraddon areas.
Is there enough parking, do youthink?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Personally.
So this is anecdotal ratherthan researched.
I've never had a problem.
I use the example of lastyear's National Multicultural
Festival just as an anecdotalstory.
So my then 11-year-old and Iwent to the aqua park on the
lake in the morning At 10o'clock we jumped off all the
(09:22):
things and climbed up and playedand did all that.
And then we came in because wethought, well, we'll go and have
some lunch and then we'll go toMulticultural Festival.
So we were headed to Bentspoke.
I parked outside Bentspoke, Iwalked into the National
Multicultural Festival andwalked back and it was so easy.
So I don't find that problem.
(09:42):
Sometimes you've got to look indifferent places than you may
have looked in the past.
I'll stick with NationalMulticultural Festival.
I don't know what the statswere this year, but last year it
was 380,000 people, right.
They all got to the city andaway without any challenge.
(10:03):
So they either drove and parked, they did a park and ride, they
got the light rail, they rode.
So there is plenty of capacityin the transport network to
bring people in and out of thecity.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And that's a lot of people coming in for the
multicultural festival over whattwo, three days.
Days yeah, you know, which isreally good for the vibrancy and
dynamism of the city centre.
But I guess one of thequestions that people sometimes
have is well, all these peopleare coming in and they're buying
a bit of food at the stallsthat are there in the
multicultural festival.
(10:36):
But is that really helping theretailers and the more
established hospitalitybusinesses.
Here Is there a spillovereffect.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So I think there are two spillover effects.
I mentioned before theimportance of inclusion and
celebration and that is awonderful event.
It's just amazing and credit tothe team who pulled that off.
We assist, but that's all we doin City Renewal.
That's a great team and it's agreat product that they've got
and need to continue.
(11:04):
What we notice in the attendanceand footfall patterns is last
year we had NationalMulticultural Festival and then
Enlighten followed on.
There was a monstrous spike forNational Multicultural Festival
and then Enlighten followed on.
There was a monstrous spike forNational Multicultural Festival
and for Enlighten in thatevening in particular that
afternoon evening attendance.
But what we found is thatfootfall pattern was sustained.
(11:28):
So I haven't done the research,but my working hypothesis is
that people came in for NMF orEnlighten into the city, found
that it wasn't hard to get in.
They could get a park or theycould get the light rail.
They changed how they travelled, so that wasn't hard.
But then they this is myworking hypothesis is they saw
(11:51):
things they have loved buthaven't been to for a long time,
or they saw a whole heap of newstuff that they thought was
exciting.
So they came back in thefollowing weekends and it was
really sustained.
It was quite that pattern.
I mentioned the spend data we'vegot and we're still it's new
(12:11):
for us.
This spend data is reallycomprehensive and new for us.
It's based on Commonwealth Bankcredit card data, so we're
still learning how to use it andwrapping our heads around it.
But on that, that spend datadoesn't cover the mobile food
trucks right, it only picks upthe bricks and mortar retail and
(12:33):
there was about a milliondollar increase over the three
days in the bricks and mortarretail and there was about a
million-dollar increase over thethree days in the bricks and
mortar.
Now I don't know whether thatwas in F&B, I don't know if it
was in Coles, I don't know.
Broadly through the CanberraCentre, I don't know.
But as we start to get moresophisticated with the data,
we'll be able to look at that.
But there was a million-dollarbump.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, so that's a sizable uplift and yeah, and
good, good to hear, and I guesswe'll be interested to hear how,
um how, how that uh unpacks asyou get for sort of further into
into the data.
Um, let's move on and talkabout light rail, which is
everyone's favorite subject atthe moment.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofbusinesses that are sort of
feeling a bit squeezed as aresult of the closure of London
(13:15):
Circuit.
What is your role in helpingthose businesses impacted by the
disruption?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So we've got a general role in activating the
city and Braddon, particularlyas we collect the city centre
marketing improvements, levy anduse that.
So we've got that general roleof assistance.
But we are working very closelywith ICBR who are leading the
(13:43):
program of business engagementand business support.
So we'll work with themspecifically on, probably, a
walking trail around City Westand see how we can bring more
people walking around LondonCircuit in front of those
businesses.
I might talk to what we've doneat Garima Place.
(14:05):
So we very much had a strategyof working with businesses
before, during which is where weare now and after.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Because there's a lot of disruption in Garima Place
at the moment as well With theupgrade.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, and they're all shops and they're great shops.
You've got Redpaths, you've gotLandspeed, laquita they're
great.
And if you actually think aboutbetween Garima Place and the
Sydney and Melbourne buildingsthat's quite the restaurant and
bar hub.
Right, absolutely, and it'sreally bespoke to Canberra.
(14:41):
So you know we want to lookafter it and we want it to do
well.
But we had a program of Fridayevening activations in Garima
leading up to the construction.
We've got a business guide forhow you can access grants,
support, advice for all thebusinesses, really close
(15:03):
communication with thebusinesses right down to staging
.
So we avoided Christmas andprobably had the assumption that
no one wanted us in their shopfront before Christmas.
Well, it actually turns out thecomic shop didn't care so much
about Christmas, but they had abig festival on the Australia
(15:25):
Day long weekend and that waswhat was really critical to them
, so we were able to program towork around that.
The other thing that we've doneis working with the restaurants
and bars around their outdoordining right.
So it is a requirement of theirpermit that they get removed in
48 hours so that we can dopublic works if we need to, and
(15:47):
and that's great.
So there's been a lot ofcommunication.
But the quality of what goesback and how easy it is to go
back is something we've reallyworked on.
So we've got an MOU with AccessCanberra and Transport Canberra
and City Services basically putout an outdoor dining guide
which shows what is easy toapprove and gives them the
(16:07):
timelines and a bit of anexpedited pathway to get through
that, such that when we pack upthe fences outside their shop
front, we can get outdoor diningback really quickly.
So those are the sorts ofthings we've been doing.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Awesome.
So you mentioned the CentralCity Marketing and Improvement
Levy.
Now, some people who don't havea business in the CBD might not
be across this, but it's a levy, a charge, that's applied to
businesses here in Civic andBraddon and in your area.
How much do you collect it?
How much do you spend each yearand what's it spent on?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, so the actual levy is levied on leaseholders
as part of their rates, so it'san increment on their rates.
The total collection for thecity centre improvements and
marketing levy is about $2.5million and we use that as part
of a program where we contribute$2.5 million, so essentially
(17:06):
co-contribution dollar fordollar.
That's not quite right becausewe actually use some of that
money, for example in Dixon andDixon isn't a CCMILE levy area
but generally.
So what do we use it for?
Creating interest andexcitement Lunar, new Year,
winter in the City, festiveFinds in the City, our Christmas
(17:28):
program, la Fiesta, our LatinAmerican festival out here at
Latin American Plaza.
We also do about so I mentionedhours of plantings, of cleaning
(17:53):
, place management, just to giveit that little bit of an extra
oomph.
We also run grants so on.
I think it's the 30th of Marchwe've got the Braddon Busking
Festival back right, which is agreat little, supporting local
artists, bringing culture to thecity, bringing activation and
(18:14):
interest to the city.
We also do a pretty heavymarketing program.
So with all of those events wework with businesses to leverage
their marketing and promote thebusinesses.
So you know, for festive findsin the city we had hundreds and
hundreds of business engagements, link-throughs to products,
(18:39):
offers from all of our localbusinesses in the city it was
fantastic and up to Braddon.
You know it was all of thosebusinesses.
We also do marketing research.
So I mentioned right at thebeginning that I'm a family
stimulator and I spend the mostmoney out of any cohort we have.
But we have, you know, theretired and exploring you know.
(19:03):
So we've got those differentage categories in different
stages of life and we use thatto assist businesses with their
marketing right.
So give them that informationabout how they can target the
audiences they want, but alsofor our events and activations,
such that we know we're bringingthe right cohorts in now you
(19:24):
mentioned cleaning as beingsomething extra that you do as
part of that levy spend.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Does that include graffiti removal?
I mean, I hear a lot of noiseabout graffiti in the CBD.
Is that something you'refocused on.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, since COVID lockdown, I would describe the
frequency of graffiti as muchhigher.
I know that's anecdotal, butit's true.
So, yes, our team do dograffiti removal.
(19:56):
It is a core responsibility ofthe building owners to keep
their buildings in a conditionthat is satisfactory.
However, we do do it.
We try to jump on it quickly.
There are buildings that havebeen graffitied repeatedly and
were cleaned repeatedly, so wedo try, but we largely work with
(20:17):
building owners to keep theirbuilding in a condition that's
appropriate.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, and many building owners, of course, are
concerned about the cost ofgraffiti and I think, as you say
, and I think it's right,there's, but it seems to have
been an increase over over timeand the level of activity that's
going on, so there's kind ofrepeated costs for business as
well as for you obviously, inthat.
Is there anything more we canbe doing to try and address that
(20:44):
?
Do you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
think well, I might.
If I was to answer thatquestion fully, I would stray
well out of sight of my policyand remit as part of CRA.
But I do think and this isCraig talking now, not CEO of
(21:05):
City Renewal just as a society,we care less than we used to.
And's not canberra, that'ssydney, that's new york, that's
london, that's everywhere, and Idon't quite get what that is,
um, and I do think it's reallyimportant that we all it's an
(21:27):
active process to be proud andto keep on top of these things,
and I think that's an obligationon us all.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, just jumping back to that marketing level,
how do you sorry marketing levy?
I should say, how do you engagewith businesses about how that
money is spent?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So we I might put out an ask at the end of this, Greg
but we run surveys, so we sendsurveys to businesses, to
building owners.
We get an incredibly lowresponse rate, incredibly low.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think one of the survey years.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
We got less than 20 responses.
But I mentioned people who dohave civic pride and want to be
engaged.
So we have a representativegroup of levy payers and
businesses.
There's about 15 or 16 of themon at the moment and that's
businesses that are indisability, employment, that's
(22:28):
developer, that's food andbeverage retail businesses,
right.
So it's a good cross sectionand we meet with them about once
a quarter and we really consultwith them on how to engage and
get that feedback but alsowhat's working, what do we need
to tweak, what's coming up.
So that's really, really useful.
(22:49):
We spent a bit of time withthem, with that CCMIL advisory
group at their last meetingtrying to work out how we could
better get better feedback fromthe broader business and owner
community.
Their suggestion and I'm happyto take feedback from your
(23:10):
members and the chamber itselftheir suggestion was focus
groups.
Right, you, you do yourrepresentative samples and do
focus groups rather than relyingon surveys which are a bit
spray and pray so that was theirsuggestion is get more focused.
Yes, you're not going to be ableto say to everyone when we send
(23:31):
you a survey, but you're goingto get richer.
More targeted, more thoughtfulfeedback is what we're thinking.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and certainly that's an increasingly common
research tactic across the board, isn't it?
I guess, taking a step backfrom the detail, are you looking
and engaging with other citiesand kind of learning from the
experiences of what's happeningin the inner cities of other
locations?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, quite heavily so .
For example, the outdoor diningguide I mentioned before, we've
based that on a model fromPerth.
The business support guides.
We've looked at Sydney andMelbourne and how the councils
there have gone about it.
(24:20):
We do also look at precincts.
So there is a government landorganizations network which has
renew sa development, victorialandcom, us it's the national
land agencies and we um share alot um about what's worked, what
(24:44):
hasn't, how to shape things.
You know, very recently we dida bit of a deep dive into bowden
, a suburb, a new suburb inAdelaide.
It was fantastic.
It was really helpful for me tothink about the Acton
Waterfront neighbourhood becauseit's of that similar scale.
It's not Wentworth Point inSydney, which is Bilbergia, and
they've got a thousand dwellingsin one unit block.
(25:05):
This was modest, sensitive andreally well done.
So we definitely learned fromothers.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Excellent.
Well, thank you very much forjoining us.
On the podcast, I've beentalking to Craig Gilman, the
Chief Executive of the CityRenewal Authority.
It's been great having you hereand learning a little bit more
about what CRA does.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Greg, and just a reminder that this episode of
the Canberra Business Podcasthas been brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of Care Super, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
Don't forget to follow us onyour favourite podcast platform
for future episodes of theCanberra Business Podcast, and
we'll catch you next time.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byCraig Gilman, the Chief
Executive of the ACTGovernment's City Renewal
Authority.
Craig, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's a pleasure to be here, Greg.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So the City Renewal Authority is well known around
town, but many people perhapsdon't understand what it is that
you do.
So what's the role of the CRAin terms of both sort of
development but also cityactivations?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's quite a broad role.
So we're not a core asset ownermaintainer that's our good
friends at City Services andTransport Canberra.
But we do do land development.
So most recently we've done thepatch of land that is now in
(00:57):
front of the QT, which was theformer cloverleaf, and that's
going to be a fantasticdevelopment with 500 residents,
a hotel and commercial.
But we also do targeted,place-based interventions where
we think we can change thenature of a place, and an
example of that is the BraddonStreetscapes.
There was nowhere to cross onLonsdale Street.
(01:17):
Now we've narrowed thosecrossing points, put the
crossings in Mort Street.
Similarly, we've got we'rereally excited about Namawari
Park, which is an actingwaterfront and that's a 50 metre
park, 50 metre radius park thatruns around the whole
waterfront.
We were gifted the nameNamawari by the Ngunnawal people
(01:38):
, so we're quite privileged withthat.
We're just this month we shouldbe completing the temporary
park and the reason it'stemporary is that's lake infill
and we need to make sure it'sstable before we put structures
on it.
And we look to be in market forthe permanent park in the
coming months, um, and, if theengineering goes well, start
before um, christmas.
(02:00):
Uh, so we do that.
But then we also activate thoseplaces through events winter in
the city, la Fiesta in CityWest, lunar New Year in Dixon.
So it's quite a broad range ofthings.
I'll tell a story, actually.
I met Minister Patterson forthe first time as we were
launching Lunar New Year on theThursday before, and I've never
(02:25):
met him before, and so Iintroduced myself Craig Gilman,
ceo of City Renewal, and helooked at me and he said you
know what?
I think you've got the best jobin ACT government.
And I went probably right,probably right.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
So a lot of really interesting things in there a
bit of development, a bit ofactivation, some events, all of
which help sort of bring peopleinto the city centre.
But, overall, what's yourpurpose, what's your vision?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
We want to make the city centre and our precinct
dynamic.
It doesn't always have thereputation Canberra doesn't
always have that reputation ofbeing dynamic.
Which is very unfair of course,which is entirely unfair.
I'll rattle off some stats.
We are the youngest demographicof any city in Australia.
(03:12):
In the last 25 years, which waswhen I first came to Canberra,
the multicultural aspect of oursociety has exploded.
So the population has reallychanged.
It's now an experience-drivenpopulation.
They want experiences.
It's now an experience-drivenpopulation.
They want experiences.
It's not just about families.
What's the old thing aboutNappy Valley and Tuggeranong?
Right?
So there are still families,but our marketing tells us that
(03:35):
one of our biggest marketsegments and in fact, our best
spenders in the precinct, arethe family stimulators.
So they're people like me whobring my kids in on the weekend,
and that's really important.
So dynamic, inclusive.
There is a really rich theme inCanberra about all tribes
(03:55):
together.
It is really and you only needto look around the world at the
moment and things are gettingnastier and the importance of
that inclusivity cannot beoverstated.
But we've also got to becompetitive, right?
So we want the economicvibrancy in the city, we want
the development, we want thebusinesses, um, and we want them
to succeed, so that in thosethree things you know, um,
(04:19):
dynamic, inclusive andcompetitive, yeah, now you've
mentioned the precinct a coupleof times, but that's not the
whole city.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Right CRA is focused very much on the inner city.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yes, correct.
So if you think about theexisting light rail corridor
from Epic down through Dixon,through Hague Park, to Lonsdale
Street in Braddon and then tothe Bulb, as you might recognise
, of the city.
So that's our precinct.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
OK, so pretty much city centre Braddon down to New
Action.
But given the fact that manypeople are working from home and
there's a migration of shoppingto outlying suburbs, or indeed
online, does the CBD stillmatter?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Talk about online and does the CBD still matter?
Talk about online.
Two years ago.
We collect spend data as bestwe can, or footfall data.
Two years ago and this willreflect on me and my lack of
engagement with current trendsthere was a monstrous spike in
(05:23):
bricks and mortar attendance andspend in October and I couldn't
work it out.
It was Black Friday.
So even sales that are marketedas online have a huge impact on
the bricks and mortar andthat's absolutely true.
But with the we also, Imentioned, we capture the
(05:46):
visitation data, and thevisitation data between 2023 and
2024 has gone up by about 30%.
So the time that you, I, others, spend in the city has gone up
by about 30% just in that year.
So that's really strong.
Um, it's also.
It has changed up by about 30%just in that year.
(06:06):
So that's really strong.
It's also it has changed.
You mentioned working from home.
The visitation has shiftedlater in the day to 2, 3 o'clock
in the afternoon, but there areplenty of people arriving in
the city and, you know, enjoyingthe city.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, well, that's good to hear, and I guess what,
as we're evolving as a society,we're more into certain
experiences, as you say, perhapssort of a more traditional
bricks and mortar retailexperience, if we're coming in
later in the day.
What's the future of the CBDlook like from your point of
view?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Well, there is that experience dynamic, and I always
tell my story like, from yourpoint of view.
Well, there is that experience,dynamic, um, and you know I
always tell my story, um, it'sour city center.
I live in bungalow, it's mycity center.
I'm in here nearly everyweekend enjoying something in
the whether it's restaurants,it's bar, but in here every
weekend.
So the city in Canberra is theeconomic engine room of the ACT.
(07:08):
It by far and away delivers themost gross value add of any
precinct.
I mentioned before socialcohesion and inclusion.
This is really important thatwe've got somewhere we can all
come to celebrate, protest, meet, dwell.
It's really important.
From that social cohesion, abit of a change is the city
(07:32):
needs to provide more housing.
I mentioned the demographicsbefore have shifted so we will
have a real focus on buildingthe residential community of the
city over the coming years andthat's really important to
diversify the visitation to thecity so you get out of this nine
to five paradigm into an 18-7paradigm.
(07:56):
So it's really important you'vegot those diversity of uses and
the population to support theactivity in the city.
I mentioned my experience.
It's the city centre for theregion, so it's where I come on
weekends I bring my kids in andthis is shown in the spend data
so we can track incoming spend.
So out of the precinct into andin Braddon the highest incoming
(08:21):
spend comes from where I comefrom, so it might be me in
Queanbeyan surrounds, soBangalore, and that was 11
months of last year.
That was the highest and oneother month that was yes.
So it really does prove thatIKEA model of the drive market
and it's really important.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
So it's really interesting that you've got such
an influx of people from outQueanbeyan way and yourself, of
course, coming in on theweekends into Braddon.
One of the challenges that Ioften hear about is parking and
the accessibility of the CBD inBraddon areas.
Is there enough parking, do youthink?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Personally.
So this is anecdotal ratherthan researched.
I've never had a problem.
I use the example of lastyear's National Multicultural
Festival just as an anecdotalstory.
So my then 11-year-old and Iwent to the aqua park on the
lake in the morning At 10o'clock we jumped off all the
(09:22):
things and climbed up and playedand did all that.
And then we came in because wethought, well, we'll go and have
some lunch and then we'll go toMulticultural Festival.
So we were headed to Bentspoke.
I parked outside Bentspoke, Iwalked into the National
Multicultural Festival andwalked back and it was so easy.
So I don't find that problem.
(09:42):
Sometimes you've got to look indifferent places than you may
have looked in the past.
I'll stick with NationalMulticultural Festival.
I don't know what the statswere this year, but last year it
was 380,000 people, right.
They all got to the city andaway without any challenge.
(10:03):
So they either drove and parked, they did a park and ride, they
got the light rail, they rode.
So there is plenty of capacityin the transport network to
bring people in and out of thecity.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And that's a lot of people coming in for the
multicultural festival over whattwo, three days.
Days yeah, you know, which isreally good for the vibrancy and
dynamism of the city centre.
But I guess one of thequestions that people sometimes
have is well, all these peopleare coming in and they're buying
a bit of food at the stallsthat are there in the
multicultural festival.
(10:36):
But is that really helping theretailers and the more
established hospitalitybusinesses.
Here Is there a spillovereffect.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So I think there are two spillover effects.
I mentioned before theimportance of inclusion and
celebration and that is awonderful event.
It's just amazing and credit tothe team who pulled that off.
We assist, but that's all we doin City Renewal.
That's a great team and it's agreat product that they've got
and need to continue.
(11:04):
What we notice in the attendanceand footfall patterns is last
year we had NationalMulticultural Festival and then
Enlighten followed on.
There was a monstrous spike forNational Multicultural Festival
and then Enlighten followed on.
There was a monstrous spike forNational Multicultural Festival
and for Enlighten in thatevening in particular that
afternoon evening attendance.
But what we found is thatfootfall pattern was sustained.
(11:28):
So I haven't done the research,but my working hypothesis is
that people came in for NMF orEnlighten into the city, found
that it wasn't hard to get in.
They could get a park or theycould get the light rail.
They changed how they travelled, so that wasn't hard.
But then they this is myworking hypothesis is they saw
(11:51):
things they have loved buthaven't been to for a long time,
or they saw a whole heap of newstuff that they thought was
exciting.
So they came back in thefollowing weekends and it was
really sustained.
It was quite that pattern.
I mentioned the spend data we'vegot and we're still it's new
(12:11):
for us.
This spend data is reallycomprehensive and new for us.
It's based on Commonwealth Bankcredit card data, so we're
still learning how to use it andwrapping our heads around it.
But on that, that spend datadoesn't cover the mobile food
trucks right, it only picks upthe bricks and mortar retail and
(12:33):
there was about a milliondollar increase over the three
days in the bricks and mortarretail and there was about a
million-dollar increase over thethree days in the bricks and
mortar.
Now I don't know whether thatwas in F&B, I don't know if it
was in Coles, I don't know.
Broadly through the CanberraCentre, I don't know.
But as we start to get moresophisticated with the data,
we'll be able to look at that.
But there was a million-dollarbump.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, so that's a sizable uplift and yeah, and
good, good to hear, and I guesswe'll be interested to hear how,
um how, how that uh unpacks asyou get for sort of further into
into the data.
Um, let's move on and talkabout light rail, which is
everyone's favorite subject atthe moment.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofbusinesses that are sort of
feeling a bit squeezed as aresult of the closure of London
(13:15):
Circuit.
What is your role in helpingthose businesses impacted by the
disruption?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So we've got a general role in activating the
city and Braddon, particularlyas we collect the city centre
marketing improvements, levy anduse that.
So we've got that general roleof assistance.
But we are working very closelywith ICBR who are leading the
(13:43):
program of business engagementand business support.
So we'll work with themspecifically on, probably, a
walking trail around City Westand see how we can bring more
people walking around LondonCircuit in front of those
businesses.
I might talk to what we've doneat Garima Place.
(14:05):
So we very much had a strategyof working with businesses
before, during which is where weare now and after.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Because there's a lot of disruption in Garima Place
at the moment as well With theupgrade.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, and they're all shops and they're great shops.
You've got Redpaths, you've gotLandspeed, laquita they're
great.
And if you actually think aboutbetween Garima Place and the
Sydney and Melbourne buildingsthat's quite the restaurant and
bar hub.
Right, absolutely, and it'sreally bespoke to Canberra.
(14:41):
So you know we want to lookafter it and we want it to do
well.
But we had a program of Fridayevening activations in Garima
leading up to the construction.
We've got a business guide forhow you can access grants,
support, advice for all thebusinesses, really close
(15:03):
communication with thebusinesses right down to staging
.
So we avoided Christmas andprobably had the assumption that
no one wanted us in their shopfront before Christmas.
Well, it actually turns out thecomic shop didn't care so much
about Christmas, but they had abig festival on the Australia
(15:25):
Day long weekend and that waswhat was really critical to them
, so we were able to program towork around that.
The other thing that we've doneis working with the restaurants
and bars around their outdoordining right.
So it is a requirement of theirpermit that they get removed in
48 hours so that we can dopublic works if we need to, and
(15:47):
and that's great.
So there's been a lot ofcommunication.
But the quality of what goesback and how easy it is to go
back is something we've reallyworked on.
So we've got an MOU with AccessCanberra and Transport Canberra
and City Services basically putout an outdoor dining guide
which shows what is easy toapprove and gives them the
(16:07):
timelines and a bit of anexpedited pathway to get through
that, such that when we pack upthe fences outside their shop
front, we can get outdoor diningback really quickly.
So those are the sorts ofthings we've been doing.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Awesome.
So you mentioned the CentralCity Marketing and Improvement
Levy.
Now, some people who don't havea business in the CBD might not
be across this, but it's a levy, a charge, that's applied to
businesses here in Civic andBraddon and in your area.
How much do you collect it?
How much do you spend each yearand what's it spent on?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, so the actual levy is levied on leaseholders
as part of their rates, so it'san increment on their rates.
The total collection for thecity centre improvements and
marketing levy is about $2.5million and we use that as part
of a program where we contribute$2.5 million, so essentially
(17:06):
co-contribution dollar fordollar.
That's not quite right becausewe actually use some of that
money, for example in Dixon andDixon isn't a CCMILE levy area
but generally.
So what do we use it for?
Creating interest andexcitement Lunar, new Year,
winter in the City, festiveFinds in the City, our Christmas
(17:28):
program, la Fiesta, our LatinAmerican festival out here at
Latin American Plaza.
We also do about so I mentionedhours of plantings, of cleaning
(17:53):
, place management, just to giveit that little bit of an extra
oomph.
We also run grants so on.
I think it's the 30th of Marchwe've got the Braddon Busking
Festival back right, which is agreat little, supporting local
artists, bringing culture to thecity, bringing activation and
(18:14):
interest to the city.
We also do a pretty heavymarketing program.
So with all of those events wework with businesses to leverage
their marketing and promote thebusinesses.
So you know, for festive findsin the city we had hundreds and
hundreds of business engagements, link-throughs to products,
(18:39):
offers from all of our localbusinesses in the city it was
fantastic and up to Braddon.
You know it was all of thosebusinesses.
We also do marketing research.
So I mentioned right at thebeginning that I'm a family
stimulator and I spend the mostmoney out of any cohort we have.
But we have, you know, theretired and exploring you know.
(19:03):
So we've got those differentage categories in different
stages of life and we use thatto assist businesses with their
marketing right.
So give them that informationabout how they can target the
audiences they want, but alsofor our events and activations,
such that we know we're bringingthe right cohorts in now you
(19:24):
mentioned cleaning as beingsomething extra that you do as
part of that levy spend.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Does that include graffiti removal?
I mean, I hear a lot of noiseabout graffiti in the CBD.
Is that something you'refocused on.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, since COVID lockdown, I would describe the
frequency of graffiti as muchhigher.
I know that's anecdotal, butit's true.
So, yes, our team do dograffiti removal.
(19:56):
It is a core responsibility ofthe building owners to keep
their buildings in a conditionthat is satisfactory.
However, we do do it.
We try to jump on it quickly.
There are buildings that havebeen graffitied repeatedly and
were cleaned repeatedly, so wedo try, but we largely work with
(20:17):
building owners to keep theirbuilding in a condition that's
appropriate.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, and many building owners, of course, are
concerned about the cost ofgraffiti and I think, as you say
, and I think it's right,there's, but it seems to have
been an increase over over timeand the level of activity that's
going on, so there's kind ofrepeated costs for business as
well as for you obviously, inthat.
Is there anything more we canbe doing to try and address that
(20:44):
?
Do you?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
think well, I might.
If I was to answer thatquestion fully, I would stray
well out of sight of my policyand remit as part of CRA.
But I do think and this isCraig talking now, not CEO of
(21:05):
City Renewal just as a society,we care less than we used to.
And's not canberra, that'ssydney, that's new york, that's
london, that's everywhere, and Idon't quite get what that is,
um, and I do think it's reallyimportant that we all it's an
(21:27):
active process to be proud andto keep on top of these things,
and I think that's an obligationon us all.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
A bit more civic pride.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, just jumping back to that marketing level,
how do you sorry marketing levy?
I should say, how do you engagewith businesses about how that
money is spent?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So we I might put out an ask at the end of this, Greg
but we run surveys, so we sendsurveys to businesses, to
building owners.
We get an incredibly lowresponse rate, incredibly low.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think one of the survey years.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
We got less than 20 responses.
But I mentioned people who dohave civic pride and want to be
engaged.
So we have a representativegroup of levy payers and
businesses.
There's about 15 or 16 of themon at the moment and that's
businesses that are indisability, employment, that's
(22:28):
developer, that's food andbeverage retail businesses,
right.
So it's a good cross sectionand we meet with them about once
a quarter and we really consultwith them on how to engage and
get that feedback but alsowhat's working, what do we need
to tweak, what's coming up.
So that's really, really useful.
(22:49):
We spent a bit of time withthem, with that CCMIL advisory
group at their last meetingtrying to work out how we could
better get better feedback fromthe broader business and owner
community.
Their suggestion and I'm happyto take feedback from your
(23:10):
members and the chamber itselftheir suggestion was focus
groups.
Right, you, you do yourrepresentative samples and do
focus groups rather than relyingon surveys which are a bit
spray and pray so that was theirsuggestion is get more focused.
Yes, you're not going to be ableto say to everyone when we send
(23:31):
you a survey, but you're goingto get richer.
More targeted, more thoughtfulfeedback is what we're thinking.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and certainly that's an increasingly common
research tactic across the board, isn't it?
I guess, taking a step backfrom the detail, are you looking
and engaging with other citiesand kind of learning from the
experiences of what's happeningin the inner cities of other
locations?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, quite heavily so .
For example, the outdoor diningguide I mentioned before, we've
based that on a model fromPerth.
The business support guides.
We've looked at Sydney andMelbourne and how the councils
there have gone about it.
(24:20):
We do also look at precincts.
So there is a government landorganizations network which has
renew sa development, victorialandcom, us it's the national
land agencies and we um share alot um about what's worked, what
(24:44):
hasn't, how to shape things.
You know, very recently we dida bit of a deep dive into bowden
, a suburb, a new suburb inAdelaide.
It was fantastic.
It was really helpful for me tothink about the Acton
Waterfront neighbourhood becauseit's of that similar scale.
It's not Wentworth Point inSydney, which is Bilbergia, and
they've got a thousand dwellingsin one unit block.
(25:05):
This was modest, sensitive andreally well done.
So we definitely learned fromothers.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Excellent.
Well, thank you very much forjoining us.
On the podcast, I've beentalking to Craig Gilman, the
Chief Executive of the CityRenewal Authority.
It's been great having you hereand learning a little bit more
about what CRA does.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Greg, and just a reminder that this episode of
the Canberra Business Podcasthas been brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of Care Super, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
Don't forget to follow us onyour favourite podcast platform
for future episodes of theCanberra Business Podcast, and
we'll catch you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.