November 9, 2025 • 18 mins
What does it take to prove competence when the stakes are sky-high? We sit down with ASPEQ’s Hamish Finlay to unpack how a New Zealand–born exam provider became a global engine for regulators, running high-stakes testing for pilots, trades, healthcare, and emergency services across 25 countries while anchoring leadership, IT, and candidate services right here in Canberra.
Hamish traces the company’s origins to New Zealand’s regulatory reform, where policy and operations were separated and specialized providers took on exams. That shift allowed ASPEQ, owned by the NZ aviation industry to scale from civil aviation into safety-critical sectors. We explore why Canberra is a strategic base: access to skilled talent, proximity to federal stakeholders, a strong lifestyle that retains teams, and resilience against natural disaster risk thanks to cloud-first systems and operational redundancy. The catch? No direct flights between Wellington and Canberra turn easy day trips into two-day hauls, a real bottleneck for trans-Tasman business.
We dig into how ASPEQ adapts to each market: from running full-service exam centers and invigilation in Hong Kong to providing secure booking and delivery platforms where regulators keep their own item banks. Cultural nuance matters; negotiation styles and business norms shift by country and even by Australian state. That complexity shapes growth plans with CASA, ASIC, and beyond, as ASPEQ targets regulated trades and healthcare where competence, safety, and trust are non-negotiable.
Technology is the wildcard. Generative AI raises integrity risks if exams test recall instead of judgment, but it also offers powerful analytics and smarter workflows. Hamish shares how secure delivery and applied assessment keep results meaningful while enabling innovation. With an aging workforce and shortages in the trades, we discuss staged certifications that let people work safely on defined tasks as they progress, speeding entry without lowering standards. We close by tackling non-tariff barriers: they may feel protective at home, but they constrain exporters abroad and erode a rules-based trade environment that small, distant economies rely on.
Subscribe and share your thoughts: should regulators adopt staged certifications more widely, and how should exams evolve to stay AI-resilient? If you enjoyed this conversation, follow the show, leave a review, and pass it on to a colleague who cares about safety, skills, and smart regulation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your host fromthe Canberra Business Chamber,
and today I'm joined by aninternational guest, Mr.
Hamish Finlay from ASPEC.
Hamish, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks, Greg.
Great to be here.
Now tell us a little bit aboutASPEC.
You do business here inCanberra, you're a member of the
Canberra Business Chamber, butwhat is it that you actually do?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Oh thanks, Greg.
ASPEC works with regulators toensure the competency of those
doing the job.
So for example, we work withCASA, which is the Civil
Aviation Safety Authority ofAustralia, doing all of the
exams for pilots to ensure thatthey are safe and competent and
know what they're doing.
We do that in 25 countries allaround the world.
(00:56):
We work with not only inaviation but with regulated
trades, healthcare, and certainprofessions as well.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
So that's must be quite a detailed piece of
detailed operation.
There's a lot there that youneed to do to do to do that.
Where did the business start?
How did you how did it come tobe?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
It started about 33 years ago in New Zealand,
actually.
We were working with the NewZealand government, and the New
Zealand government at the timewas uh changing the way that
they did regulation, and one ofthe things they were doing was
that they moved the um separatedthe policy from the um from the
(01:40):
operations.
And part of that was that theylooked at exams and assessments
across New New Zealand and went,is that really a job of a
regulator to actually do theexams and assessments?
And the answer to them at thatpoint was no.
And so what they started to dowas to divest that activity out
of the regulators and into amore operational area.
And in some cases that waspicked up by parts of the
(02:01):
private sector.
In the case of ASPEC, we um areowned by the New Zealand
aviation industry, and we uhthen took over the New Zealand
civil aviation exams.
And because of our scale and theability to do things
efficiently, we were able tostart to expand globally and
also into other areas.
(02:22):
And that meant that we becameeven more efficient at what we
were doing, and so we candeliver exams for regulators far
cheaper than what they can, andso and and at a at at and
oftentimes a much higher qualityas well.
So they adopt us and then we weundertake those exams on behalf
of them, and then they can beassured that the that the people
who are doing the job thatthey're regulating are
(02:43):
competent.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Now, how big's your operation here in Australia and
here in Canberra?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
In Canberra, we've got an office of eight people uh
just down in Dixon, uh, andwe've got very senior members of
our organisation.
So there's a member of ourexecutive here, and plus also
the head of our IT support.
And that's done verydeliberately because it gives us
the ability to run the businessfrom Canberra.
Uh, and we've also got ourcandidate services globally,
(03:11):
that function is led fromCanberra as well.
Across Australia, then we've gotum about a hundred um casual and
contract SMEs who help eitherinvigilate the exams or um or
write the questions for the forour exams globally.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Now you talk about being able to run the business
from Canberra, um, but you're aNew Zealand company, so why
would you want to be able to dothat?
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Uh for two reasons, really.
Um Canberra is a great place torecruit staff.
Um so we find highly skilled,highly competent people in
Canberra, and so that means thatwe can be assured that we're
going to get good people to dothe role for us.
The other reason is that NewZealand is quite risky in terms
(03:58):
of um uh natural disasters, andso we did want to have certainty
that we would be able to deliverour service regardless of what
was going on in New Zealand.
And so we've we've set up thebusiness so that we've got very
little physical infrastructurein New Zealand.
A lot of it is a lot of our umIT infrastructure is in the
cloud, but we've also got theability to run the business out
(04:18):
of Canberra.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Yeah, so Canberra is a business continuity plan for
our spec.
I mean that's that's quite aquite a badge of honour for
Canberra.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Okay, well, I hadn't really conceived it as the
business continuity plan.
I I'd I sort of put it in termsof all of the great things that
Canberra has to offer, butactually when you put it like
that, that is actually true.
But the the fact is that we umyou know we could have chosen
anywhere, but we did chooseCanberra for for a for a whole
lot of reasons, including accessto the to the federal um to the
(04:49):
federal government, but also theother um in inherent benefits of
of Canberra.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
Yeah.
And what do you see those being?
I mean, obviously workforce umis is part of that, but what are
the other things that drew youto set up here?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Well, it's kind of well it was about the workforce,
and so when you think about whatis it that that work you know uh
a strong, well, well-educatedworkforce need, they they don't
just need you know a roof overtheir heads and and a job.
They need all of the otherthings that come with a with a
with a good lifestyle, you know,all of the the ability to go and
(05:23):
do stuff that those cultural andsocial elements that come with
it, some of the economicelements, um, which mean that it
that it is a great city to livein.
And so that then attracts andretains the staff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
One of the challenges that there must be
running an operation out ofWellington and having an office
in Canberra is the connectivitybetween the two cities.
There's no direct connectionsback to New Zealand or to
Wellington.
Is that something that is a is achallenge for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
It it really is.
Um a modern-day businessperspective, the internet
connectivity and and all ofthat, that's fantastic, right?
No issues there.
Uh from a from an ability totravel backwards and forwards to
between the two capitals, that'sa honestly, that's a bit of a
nightmare.
And Greg, you'll appreciatethis.
You know, once upon a time therewas a direct flight from
(06:13):
Wellington to Canberra, and itwas a dream.
You could almost do a day tripto Canberra.
Um, now I have to come away fortwo days.
Um, and that's that's fine, butit is it is a bit of a nuisance.
And I think that's probably abit of a hindrance for for the
whole of Canberra.
It's not the easiest place toget to.
Um but once you're here, it'sgreat.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Yeah, and certainly uh there's been a lot of
discussion about umkick-starting flights back to
New Zealand, which I think wouldbe a big help if we can we can
make those happen.
So we'll we'll add you to thelist of people calling for that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Oh look, the the dream would be um Wellington,
Canberra, Singapore for us,because you know our fourth
biggest client is in Singaporeas well.
But also once you get toSingapore, it's it's you're
you're you're on the way to therest of the world.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
So you you're operating across a very diverse
range of geographies.
Um have you actually got peoplein all those markets?
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Not necessarily.
Um it depends on the needs ofthat that particular state or
that that regulator that we'reworking with.
So in some cases, like Pakistan,like Hong Kong, for example, we
have um we have a set of examcenters and and vigilators,
people who supervise exams workfor us in Hong Kong.
(07:24):
Um, and the Hong Kong um clientsthey will use our IT systems to
um to book and manage the exams,and we'll run the exams through
our um our exam system.
Some clients will just use theexam system for booking and and
undertaking the exams, and we'lldo their own question bank work,
but we'll also invigilate theexams as well.
(07:46):
So really we're quite flexiblein how we um uh roll out our
service depending on the needsof that particular regulator.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
And is there is there much difference do you
find between um running theoperation in different markets?
Like what are what are the thebig challenges you find in in
some places compared to others?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Look, it it is it's um it's probably a bit cliched,
but it it is definitely truethat every single country, every
single place that we work in, uhthere are distinct cultural
business uh differences in theway that they do business and
the way that they interact witheach other.
So you do have to be veryflexible in that respect, but
(08:31):
also um you know respectful andtry to understand those
differences because if you youknow you make the mistake once,
it's probably okay.
Make the mistake twice, you'renot going to get another
meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
So, talking about some of those distinct cultural
differences, um what was yourexperience setting up an office
in Canberra?
What were what were thedifferences between doing
business here in Australiaversus versus New Zealand and
were there any surprises inthat?
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
I I'll have to be honest, I was um I wasn't here
when we set up the Canberraoffice.
Um that was about we set up inCanberra um more than 20 years
ago.
Um, and so we made a long-termcommitment to Canberra.
We initially came here becausewe had a client here, but the
longer we've been here, the morewe've become strong advocates of
of being in Canberra, and and wewon't be moving out of Canberra
(09:22):
in a hurry.
In terms of setting up, it'sit's always the usual things
I've you know from what I'veheard about setting up a new
place, is is around you know,understanding the rules and
regulations that that go withsetting up in that particular
place, you know, the rulesaround business and government
and tax and all of those sortsof things, where to find venues,
(09:44):
how to employ staff, what arethe rules when it comes to
employee staff?
Um, even you know, the thesimple things like how to open a
bank account can be quite uhdifficult.
I and and you know that was thethe sorts of things that you
find anywhere, but you know, I Ican't draw any uh distinct
differences from Canberrabecause I wasn't here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
And and now um how long have you been in your role,
Hamish?
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Uh just is just over three years.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
So so three years in, I mean, how how do you how
do you find the differencebetween operating in Australia
versus New Zealand?
Are the are there things thatstand out to you as as as
materially different?
Um or does does each market justhave its own sort of
peculiarities?
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
They they all do have their own peculiarities.
And and the the thing aboutAustralia is is that and we were
talking about this earlier, isthat it is seven, eight distinct
countries in its own right.
Um and business practice isslightly different, particularly
around the regulations acrosseach of those those countries,
so those those states.
(10:47):
So there's there's thatconsideration.
Um, in terms of um some of theemployment rules, regulations,
laws are uh are different and insome cases quite constraining to
a business that is that isgrowing and expanding and is
wanting to have some flexibilityin in how it works with its with
its workforce, and also that theworkforce often wants
(11:09):
flexibility back.
And you find yourself sometimeshaving to say no we can't do
that, that's against the law.
Um we also uh find that um interms of business practice,
there's some you know there aredifferences in negotiating
styles between New Zealandersand and Australians, you know.
Um I guess with Australians younever die wandering.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
So growth you've touched on um a moment ago.
Do you do you see further growthin your operation here in
Canberra?
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Um yeah, we really do.
We are um very much focused onon growth in into Australia,
working with regulators at boththe sort of state and federal
level.
Um we believe that the workwe've done with CASA and some of
the work we're doing with withASIC put us in a good position
to demonstrate that we canprovide uh a good service, a
(12:03):
reliable uh service across thewhole of Australia.
And so we will be looking towork with other with other
regulators across New Zealand.
I put uh business developmentincreased that in in Australia,
and it's definitely a focus ofthe business over the coming
years to to grow in Australia.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
And it's not just aviation, right?
I mean the origins are inaviation, but but what what sort
of sectors do you do you workacross?
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
So we we we do work in um so we we're targeting in
in Australia, and but this isalso globally um a lot of the
regulated traits.
So, for example, in New Zealandwe do all of the certifying
exams for the electricians andthe plumbers, the gas fitters
and the drain layers.
We also work in in health carewith with midwives and in an
emergency management as well,with so New Zealand Fire and
(12:48):
Emergency and the New ZealandPolice, um, providing exams for
for them to ensure that thosefor people doing that work are
competent.
Um we see that opportunity inAustralia as well, particularly
in sort of some of those sort ofsafety conscious um businesses
and industries in within NewZealand, uh within Australia, so
you know, health and safety, um,you know, the those regulated
(13:10):
trades.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Um Hamish, I guess just to come back to Canberra
and doing business here, and andobviously um you know it's it's
fantastic that you're along-term uh Canberra business.
Um 20 years is is is a is a verylong time to have sort of kept
uh kept an operation going andto be growing that.
Um you're seeing future growthpotential here on this side of
(13:36):
the Tasman and in Canberra, butwhat are the what are the big
challenges that you see in themarket?
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Um we obviously we we live in a in an area of rapid
technological change, so the waythat um assessments are being
undertaken is potentially goingto change incredibly rapidly
with the with the rise ofcertain types of AI models.
Um it is both a potentialbenefit and uh a threat to us as
(14:03):
well, though.
Because of the way that weconduct our exams, it means that
it is very difficult for peopleto use some of these AIs to
answer the the questions and torely too much on the technology
and not necessarily deliver asafe solution from their own
competence.
So, you know, there are someadvantages there, but also there
is the way that we conduct ourbusiness, the way we run our
(14:26):
systems, is also going topotentially change due to due to
this technology change.
Um there are other sort ofgeopolitical changes as well.
You know, we're an internationalbusiness, like many Australian
and New Zealand businesses relyon global trade in order to
survive.
And so the the uncertaintythat's going on in the global
environment at the moment is isobviously worrying to us as
(14:49):
everybody else, particularlywhen you start to see sort of
non-tariff trade barriers jumpup.
Um, and you know that that meansit's very difficult for us to
continue to do business.
Um, but you know, otherchallenges we're seeing,
obviously, there's an increasedcompetition, but that's always
good for business anyway.
Um, you know, and you know, westarting to see a bit of an
(15:11):
aging workforce as well.
So we you know, particularly ina in a lot of trades, we're
going to start seeing shortages.
So, you know, how do we, as uhas an exam provider, as a as a
final assessment, how do we makesure that what we're doing is
not slowing down the peoplegetting, you know, being
competent and actually startingto join the workforce.
(15:33):
So often you'll see in in manyregulated trades, there's this
sort of big bang, you sit theexam at the end and then you're
certified, and away you go.
Whereas some of the trades we'reworking with in New Zealand are
actually doing it in a stagedapproach.
So they'll do a little bit andthen they'll get certified, and
you can do that particular pieceof the job and then move on to
the next piece.
And so for us, it's aboutworking with the regulators to
(15:55):
understand how that's going tochange the way that they're
looking at their regulatedworkforce.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
Just um touching on non-tariff protectionist
barriers, which you sort ofmentioned.
Um, you know, the the idea um isis common in some quarters that
actually it's a great idea toput these measures in place
because they help uh protectlocal industry, protect local
jobs.
Have you got a view on that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
Yeah, I do.
Um I you know, I at first blushit seems like a really good
idea.
Um and that's fine if you're alocal business and you know
you're you're quite satisfiedwith your you know, you've got
enough to buy a boat and you'vegot a holiday house and you've
got your whatever.
Um but if you want to expandglobally or you want to, you've
(16:41):
got you know serious ambitionabout your business, when you
start to grow outside ofAustralia and New Zealand, you
start tripping over thosebarriers on the other side.
And they seriously restrict yourability to grow.
And it's very difficult whenyou're from a very small
country, a very long way away,to actually be able to function
(17:03):
in a in an in an environmentthat is not rules-based.
And so for me, looking at thatkind of, oh, well, why don't we
do that?
It means it's just going to makeit so much harder for our
exporters because there will bea bit of tit for tat on that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
Well, Hamish Findlay from Aspec, um, thank you so
much for joining me on thepodcast today.
It's been really interestinglearning a little bit more about
the business, and I certainlywish you uh all the very best in
your growth aspirations and hopeuh that you can continue to grow
here in Canberra and indeed inAustralia.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Thanks very much, Greg.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Um don't forget, if you're notfollowing us already, you can
follow the Canberra BusinessPodcast on your favourite
podcast platform to uh keep upto date with the latest
episodes.
Thanks very much.
Catch you next time.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your host fromthe Canberra Business Chamber,
and today I'm joined by aninternational guest, Mr.
Hamish Finlay from ASPEC.
Hamish, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks, Greg.
Great to be here.
Now tell us a little bit aboutASPEC.
You do business here inCanberra, you're a member of the
Canberra Business Chamber, butwhat is it that you actually do?
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Oh thanks, Greg.
ASPEC works with regulators toensure the competency of those
doing the job.
So for example, we work withCASA, which is the Civil
Aviation Safety Authority ofAustralia, doing all of the
exams for pilots to ensure thatthey are safe and competent and
know what they're doing.
We do that in 25 countries allaround the world.
(00:56):
We work with not only inaviation but with regulated
trades, healthcare, and certainprofessions as well.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
So that's must be quite a detailed piece of
detailed operation.
There's a lot there that youneed to do to do to do that.
Where did the business start?
How did you how did it come tobe?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
It started about 33 years ago in New Zealand,
actually.
We were working with the NewZealand government, and the New
Zealand government at the timewas uh changing the way that
they did regulation, and one ofthe things they were doing was
that they moved the um separatedthe policy from the um from the
(01:40):
operations.
And part of that was that theylooked at exams and assessments
across New New Zealand and went,is that really a job of a
regulator to actually do theexams and assessments?
And the answer to them at thatpoint was no.
And so what they started to dowas to divest that activity out
of the regulators and into amore operational area.
And in some cases that waspicked up by parts of the
(02:01):
private sector.
In the case of ASPEC, we um areowned by the New Zealand
aviation industry, and we uhthen took over the New Zealand
civil aviation exams.
And because of our scale and theability to do things
efficiently, we were able tostart to expand globally and
also into other areas.
(02:22):
And that meant that we becameeven more efficient at what we
were doing, and so we candeliver exams for regulators far
cheaper than what they can, andso and and at a at at and
oftentimes a much higher qualityas well.
So they adopt us and then we weundertake those exams on behalf
of them, and then they can beassured that the that the people
who are doing the job thatthey're regulating are
(02:43):
competent.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Now, how big's your operation here in Australia and
here in Canberra?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
In Canberra, we've got an office of eight people uh
just down in Dixon, uh, andwe've got very senior members of
our organisation.
So there's a member of ourexecutive here, and plus also
the head of our IT support.
And that's done verydeliberately because it gives us
the ability to run the businessfrom Canberra.
Uh, and we've also got ourcandidate services globally,
(03:11):
that function is led fromCanberra as well.
Across Australia, then we've gotum about a hundred um casual and
contract SMEs who help eitherinvigilate the exams or um or
write the questions for the forour exams globally.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Now you talk about being able to run the business
from Canberra, um, but you're aNew Zealand company, so why
would you want to be able to dothat?
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Uh for two reasons, really.
Um Canberra is a great place torecruit staff.
Um so we find highly skilled,highly competent people in
Canberra, and so that means thatwe can be assured that we're
going to get good people to dothe role for us.
The other reason is that NewZealand is quite risky in terms
(03:58):
of um uh natural disasters, andso we did want to have certainty
that we would be able to deliverour service regardless of what
was going on in New Zealand.
And so we've we've set up thebusiness so that we've got very
little physical infrastructurein New Zealand.
A lot of it is a lot of our umIT infrastructure is in the
cloud, but we've also got theability to run the business out
(04:18):
of Canberra.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Yeah, so Canberra is a business continuity plan for
our spec.
I mean that's that's quite aquite a badge of honour for
Canberra.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Okay, well, I hadn't really conceived it as the
business continuity plan.
I I'd I sort of put it in termsof all of the great things that
Canberra has to offer, butactually when you put it like
that, that is actually true.
But the the fact is that we umyou know we could have chosen
anywhere, but we did chooseCanberra for for a for a whole
lot of reasons, including accessto the to the federal um to the
(04:49):
federal government, but also theother um in inherent benefits of
of Canberra.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
Yeah.
And what do you see those being?
I mean, obviously workforce umis is part of that, but what are
the other things that drew youto set up here?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Well, it's kind of well it was about the workforce,
and so when you think about whatis it that that work you know uh
a strong, well, well-educatedworkforce need, they they don't
just need you know a roof overtheir heads and and a job.
They need all of the otherthings that come with a with a
with a good lifestyle, you know,all of the the ability to go and
(05:23):
do stuff that those cultural andsocial elements that come with
it, some of the economicelements, um, which mean that it
that it is a great city to livein.
And so that then attracts andretains the staff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
One of the challenges that there must be
running an operation out ofWellington and having an office
in Canberra is the connectivitybetween the two cities.
There's no direct connectionsback to New Zealand or to
Wellington.
Is that something that is a is achallenge for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
It it really is.
Um a modern-day businessperspective, the internet
connectivity and and all ofthat, that's fantastic, right?
No issues there.
Uh from a from an ability totravel backwards and forwards to
between the two capitals, that'sa honestly, that's a bit of a
nightmare.
And Greg, you'll appreciatethis.
You know, once upon a time therewas a direct flight from
(06:13):
Wellington to Canberra, and itwas a dream.
You could almost do a day tripto Canberra.
Um, now I have to come away fortwo days.
Um, and that's that's fine, butit is it is a bit of a nuisance.
And I think that's probably abit of a hindrance for for the
whole of Canberra.
It's not the easiest place toget to.
Um but once you're here, it'sgreat.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Yeah, and certainly uh there's been a lot of
discussion about umkick-starting flights back to
New Zealand, which I think wouldbe a big help if we can we can
make those happen.
So we'll we'll add you to thelist of people calling for that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
Oh look, the the dream would be um Wellington,
Canberra, Singapore for us,because you know our fourth
biggest client is in Singaporeas well.
But also once you get toSingapore, it's it's you're
you're you're on the way to therest of the world.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
So you you're operating across a very diverse
range of geographies.
Um have you actually got peoplein all those markets?
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Not necessarily.
Um it depends on the needs ofthat that particular state or
that that regulator that we'reworking with.
So in some cases, like Pakistan,like Hong Kong, for example, we
have um we have a set of examcenters and and vigilators,
people who supervise exams workfor us in Hong Kong.
(07:24):
Um, and the Hong Kong um clientsthey will use our IT systems to
um to book and manage the exams,and we'll run the exams through
our um our exam system.
Some clients will just use theexam system for booking and and
undertaking the exams, and we'lldo their own question bank work,
but we'll also invigilate theexams as well.
(07:46):
So really we're quite flexiblein how we um uh roll out our
service depending on the needsof that particular regulator.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
And is there is there much difference do you
find between um running theoperation in different markets?
Like what are what are the thebig challenges you find in in
some places compared to others?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Look, it it is it's um it's probably a bit cliched,
but it it is definitely truethat every single country, every
single place that we work in, uhthere are distinct cultural
business uh differences in theway that they do business and
the way that they interact witheach other.
So you do have to be veryflexible in that respect, but
(08:31):
also um you know respectful andtry to understand those
differences because if you youknow you make the mistake once,
it's probably okay.
Make the mistake twice, you'renot going to get another
meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
So, talking about some of those distinct cultural
differences, um what was yourexperience setting up an office
in Canberra?
What were what were thedifferences between doing
business here in Australiaversus versus New Zealand and
were there any surprises inthat?
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
I I'll have to be honest, I was um I wasn't here
when we set up the Canberraoffice.
Um that was about we set up inCanberra um more than 20 years
ago.
Um, and so we made a long-termcommitment to Canberra.
We initially came here becausewe had a client here, but the
longer we've been here, the morewe've become strong advocates of
of being in Canberra, and and wewon't be moving out of Canberra
(09:22):
in a hurry.
In terms of setting up, it'sit's always the usual things
I've you know from what I'veheard about setting up a new
place, is is around you know,understanding the rules and
regulations that that go withsetting up in that particular
place, you know, the rulesaround business and government
and tax and all of those sortsof things, where to find venues,
(09:44):
how to employ staff, what arethe rules when it comes to
employee staff?
Um, even you know, the thesimple things like how to open a
bank account can be quite uhdifficult.
I and and you know that was thethe sorts of things that you
find anywhere, but you know, I Ican't draw any uh distinct
differences from Canberrabecause I wasn't here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
And and now um how long have you been in your role,
Hamish?
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Uh just is just over three years.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
So so three years in, I mean, how how do you how
do you find the differencebetween operating in Australia
versus New Zealand?
Are the are there things thatstand out to you as as as
materially different?
Um or does does each market justhave its own sort of
peculiarities?
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
They they all do have their own peculiarities.
And and the the thing aboutAustralia is is that and we were
talking about this earlier, isthat it is seven, eight distinct
countries in its own right.
Um and business practice isslightly different, particularly
around the regulations acrosseach of those those countries,
so those those states.
(10:47):
So there's there's thatconsideration.
Um, in terms of um some of theemployment rules, regulations,
laws are uh are different and insome cases quite constraining to
a business that is that isgrowing and expanding and is
wanting to have some flexibilityin in how it works with its with
its workforce, and also that theworkforce often wants
(11:09):
flexibility back.
And you find yourself sometimeshaving to say no we can't do
that, that's against the law.
Um we also uh find that um interms of business practice,
there's some you know there aredifferences in negotiating
styles between New Zealandersand and Australians, you know.
Um I guess with Australians younever die wandering.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
So growth you've touched on um a moment ago.
Do you do you see further growthin your operation here in
Canberra?
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Um yeah, we really do.
We are um very much focused onon growth in into Australia,
working with regulators at boththe sort of state and federal
level.
Um we believe that the workwe've done with CASA and some of
the work we're doing with withASIC put us in a good position
to demonstrate that we canprovide uh a good service, a
(12:03):
reliable uh service across thewhole of Australia.
And so we will be looking towork with other with other
regulators across New Zealand.
I put uh business developmentincreased that in in Australia,
and it's definitely a focus ofthe business over the coming
years to to grow in Australia.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
And it's not just aviation, right?
I mean the origins are inaviation, but but what what sort
of sectors do you do you workacross?
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
So we we we do work in um so we we're targeting in
in Australia, and but this isalso globally um a lot of the
regulated traits.
So, for example, in New Zealandwe do all of the certifying
exams for the electricians andthe plumbers, the gas fitters
and the drain layers.
We also work in in health carewith with midwives and in an
emergency management as well,with so New Zealand Fire and
(12:48):
Emergency and the New ZealandPolice, um, providing exams for
for them to ensure that thosefor people doing that work are
competent.
Um we see that opportunity inAustralia as well, particularly
in sort of some of those sort ofsafety conscious um businesses
and industries in within NewZealand, uh within Australia, so
you know, health and safety, um,you know, the those regulated
(13:10):
trades.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Um Hamish, I guess just to come back to Canberra
and doing business here, and andobviously um you know it's it's
fantastic that you're along-term uh Canberra business.
Um 20 years is is is a is a verylong time to have sort of kept
uh kept an operation going andto be growing that.
Um you're seeing future growthpotential here on this side of
(13:36):
the Tasman and in Canberra, butwhat are the what are the big
challenges that you see in themarket?
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Um we obviously we we live in a in an area of rapid
technological change, so the waythat um assessments are being
undertaken is potentially goingto change incredibly rapidly
with the with the rise ofcertain types of AI models.
Um it is both a potentialbenefit and uh a threat to us as
(14:03):
well, though.
Because of the way that weconduct our exams, it means that
it is very difficult for peopleto use some of these AIs to
answer the the questions and torely too much on the technology
and not necessarily deliver asafe solution from their own
competence.
So, you know, there are someadvantages there, but also there
is the way that we conduct ourbusiness, the way we run our
(14:26):
systems, is also going topotentially change due to due to
this technology change.
Um there are other sort ofgeopolitical changes as well.
You know, we're an internationalbusiness, like many Australian
and New Zealand businesses relyon global trade in order to
survive.
And so the the uncertaintythat's going on in the global
environment at the moment is isobviously worrying to us as
(14:49):
everybody else, particularlywhen you start to see sort of
non-tariff trade barriers jumpup.
Um, and you know that that meansit's very difficult for us to
continue to do business.
Um, but you know, otherchallenges we're seeing,
obviously, there's an increasedcompetition, but that's always
good for business anyway.
Um, you know, and you know, westarting to see a bit of an
(15:11):
aging workforce as well.
So we you know, particularly ina in a lot of trades, we're
going to start seeing shortages.
So, you know, how do we, as uhas an exam provider, as a as a
final assessment, how do we makesure that what we're doing is
not slowing down the peoplegetting, you know, being
competent and actually startingto join the workforce.
(15:33):
So often you'll see in in manyregulated trades, there's this
sort of big bang, you sit theexam at the end and then you're
certified, and away you go.
Whereas some of the trades we'reworking with in New Zealand are
actually doing it in a stagedapproach.
So they'll do a little bit andthen they'll get certified, and
you can do that particular pieceof the job and then move on to
the next piece.
And so for us, it's aboutworking with the regulators to
(15:55):
understand how that's going tochange the way that they're
looking at their regulatedworkforce.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
Just um touching on non-tariff protectionist
barriers, which you sort ofmentioned.
Um, you know, the the idea um isis common in some quarters that
actually it's a great idea toput these measures in place
because they help uh protectlocal industry, protect local
jobs.
Have you got a view on that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
Yeah, I do.
Um I you know, I at first blushit seems like a really good
idea.
Um and that's fine if you're alocal business and you know
you're you're quite satisfiedwith your you know, you've got
enough to buy a boat and you'vegot a holiday house and you've
got your whatever.
Um but if you want to expandglobally or you want to, you've
(16:41):
got you know serious ambitionabout your business, when you
start to grow outside ofAustralia and New Zealand, you
start tripping over thosebarriers on the other side.
And they seriously restrict yourability to grow.
And it's very difficult whenyou're from a very small
country, a very long way away,to actually be able to function
(17:03):
in a in an in an environmentthat is not rules-based.
And so for me, looking at thatkind of, oh, well, why don't we
do that?
It means it's just going to makeit so much harder for our
exporters because there will bea bit of tit for tat on that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
Well, Hamish Findlay from Aspec, um, thank you so
much for joining me on thepodcast today.
It's been really interestinglearning a little bit more about
the business, and I certainlywish you uh all the very best in
your growth aspirations and hopeuh that you can continue to grow
here in Canberra and indeed inAustralia.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Thanks very much, Greg.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Um don't forget, if you're notfollowing us already, you can
follow the Canberra BusinessPodcast on your favourite
podcast platform to uh keep upto date with the latest
episodes.
Thanks very much.
Catch you next time.
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