March 23, 2025 • 32 mins
What happens when we stop seeing disability and leadership as contradictory terms? Christina Ryan, founder of the Disability Leadership Institute and ACT nominee for Australian of the Year, is transforming how we understand professional achievement and organisational excellence.
During our candid conversation, Christina shares the profound moment that sparked her mission: realising that disabled people weren't being believed simply because they were disabled. This revelation led her to create Australia's first organisation focused exclusively on disability leadership – addressing a critical gap that had been overlooked worldwide. What began as a modest enterprise has blossomed into the country's largest professional network for disabled leaders.
For entrepreneurs, Christina offers refreshingly practical advice from her journey building a successful social enterprise with minimal resources. Listen in!
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byChristina Ryan, who founded the
Disability Leadership Institutein 2016 and was an ACT nominee
this year for Australian of theYear.
Christina, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thanks, greg, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now you founded the Disability Leadership Institute
what nine years ago now?
To address issues aroundprofessional development
services for people withdisabilities and your role there
.
Your goal is to kind of fosterleadership and career
development.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour journey and what led you to
(00:48):
become such a prominentadvocate for disability
leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I'm not an advocate anymore.
I used to be an advocate.
I've given it away.
I've given it away.
Now I'm a leadership coach, butI was an advocate.
I've spent most of my lifemaking change, doing things to
make the world a more equalplace, and I was running a
disability advocacy organisation.
(01:13):
And they're the organisationsthey're all very small, about 70
of them across the country thatsupport disabled people to be
heard, get alongside them,people who live in some of those
segregated environments likegroup houses and sheltered
workshops, and so we're runninga team of advocates and we were
(01:34):
just seeing the same thing overand over again every day.
Every day and I don't know ifyour listeners would recall, but
there were two separate FourCorners episodes talking about
appalling violence and abusethat was happening in group
houses that people were livingin and institutional
(01:54):
environments, and they're theplaces that we were working in.
It's pretty tough stuff.
It's really hard, not veryglamorous at all.
It's actually the hidden worldthat people prefer not to think
about in disability.
We were campaigning for theRoyal Commission during this
period.
We knew something like thatneeded to happen and those Four
Corners episodes were saying thesame thing over and over again
(02:18):
and telling us what we wereseeing every day and they were
just saying it over and overagain, and it was particularly
particularly the second episode.
There was a moment where thereporter who'd put the episode
together talked about how shedidn't initially believe the
advocates who told her thesestories.
They were mainly people workingin New South Wales and Victoria
(02:40):
, not the ACT, but it was allthe same stories and she didn't
really believe it.
She thought that the advocateswere being dramatic and making
the stories sound a bit moreghastly than they really were,
until she went in and sherealised that there was no need
for that, that these storieswere true, that this was
(03:00):
actually how people were living.
It was really tough stuff andit is hard, it's very tough
stuff and you're pretty much theambulance at the bottom of the
cliff.
That's the story of a lot ofcommunity organisations in
Canberra and we were sittingthere at the team meeting the
day after the second one ofthese episodes and my team were
(03:22):
distressed by it.
Of course it was what we wereseeing every day.
Most of my team were distressedby it.
Of course it was what we wereseeing every day.
Most of my team were disabledpeople, which is very unusual
for disability advocacyorganisations.
Most of them are run byfamilies, carers, people around
disabled people.
Very few are run by disabledpeople and one of my team just
(03:45):
threw a head back and said whydon't they believe us?
We keep telling them this ishappening and I had one of those
moments of clarity you have inyour life where I realised that
the reason they don't believe usis because we're disabled
people.
And it was what the reporterwas saying.
(04:05):
Everybody thinks we're making abig thing of it, that we're
dramatising it, that we'retalking it up.
And it is shocking stuff, but italso is how we marginalise
people in our community.
It's not just disabled people,but people generally.
We can actually, it's easierfor people to look away or to
think oh, that's only one case,it's not a systemic issue, and
(04:30):
it was that moment where Irealised that they don't listen
to us.
We're disabled people.
That's actually about where'sthe power, where is the space
that we are in the rooms ofpeople who make decisions, who
allocate the budgets, who decidewhat will get the media, the
(04:51):
political, the general publiccoverage of anything?
And it wasn't us, and so theanswer is actually equality.
Now, duh, duh.
I mean that's a big picturechange.
You know, I'm not frightened ofsomething big.
I've been doing that for awhile, so no pressure there then
, and I realised at that pointthat what we really needed was
(05:15):
disabled people in leadership,in positions of power and
decision-making in the roomswhere things are decided, where
it matters, and we're not there.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, and this was the catalyst to form the
Disability Leadership Institute.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Absolutely it was and I spoke.
I spent a couple of months.
I talked to a number ofcolleagues, trusted friends in
the community and others, and werealised that over about 20
years there had been somethinglike half a dozen pilot projects
on disability leadership inAustralia nationally.
There was nothing else.
(05:52):
There was no consistent workbeing done.
There was nowhere that youcould go.
We've got lots of work beingdone on women's leadership,
which needs to happen.
We need to have gender equalityin our leadership spaces.
There's some really good workbeing done in the First Nations
community and there's aparticularly good First Nations
Leadership Institute, but therewas absolutely nothing being
(06:14):
done on disabled people havingaccess to leadership development
.
Community of practice the sortof thing that you and I would
look at and think that thecompany directors do, for
example, they're a community ofpractice.
The sort of thing that you andI would look at and think that
the company directors do, forexample, they're a community of
practice.
They're a bunch of people whohave all got their company
directors diploma and they siton boards and they talk about
what it's like to do that andwhat good practice looks like.
(06:36):
Absolutely nothing like thatfor disabled people in Australia
.
So Disability Leadership-Institute.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So so tell us about the institute.
What is it that you do, and howbig have you grown?
And what's the journey beenover the last nine years?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, well fast, I'd have to say.
It was the classic example ofright place, right time, one of
those blue ocean stories.
And so the minute we were, youknow, we started.
I mean, it was me back in theearly days.
The minute I got out there andstarted talking about this and
setting it up, people wanted in,people wanted a piece of it.
(07:11):
The thing that did surprise mewas it wasn't just Australians,
it was actually colleagues allover the planet in the
disability community.
Yes, because there's not muchout there generally, and in fact
at the time we were the onlyorganisation that was
specifically focused ondisability leadership on the
planet.
Now there's two or three others, but it was the one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So you were really groundbreaking in terms of what
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah Well, hey, disabled people don't do
leadership.
Greg, we're not supposed to bein those places.
So we started off thinking we'dbe doing a lot of consulting
work and I would have to say Iput together an advisory board
not all disabled people and wethought that was it.
But then you've got to be ableto monetise.
(07:56):
You've got to actually be ableto get out there and earn money
at what you're doing.
It's not just about feelinggood and deciding that something
needs to happen If you can'tgenerate income and sustain a
business.
And the Disability LeadershipInstitute is a private company,
we're not a charity, we're not acommunity organisation, we are,
in fact, a profit-making socialenterprise and so we have to
(08:17):
generate income.
And we rapidly realised thatmaking money out of disabled
people is a bit fraught, becausehalf of all disabled people
don't work.
The ones that do are often inpart-time and poorly paid jobs,
and actually it we were wrong.
Within about six months, I hademployed somebody actually it
(08:41):
was about four months and we hadall sorts of people governments
around the country, othercorporates coming to us and
asking us if we could runprograms for them, all based on
the fact that if you Googledisability and leadership.
You got us.
We were it.
I get an enormous amount ofspam saying you know, improve
(09:04):
your SEO.
And of course it's all rubbish.
I don't need it because everytime you.
Google, disability andleadership.
You get us anyway.
So I thought go away, don'tneed you.
So we were really lucky rightplace, right time and we're
still here, right.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So the vision of kind of doing lots of consultancy
work morphed into runningprograms and training,
essentially for corporate wealways had an idea that we'd run
training and do that.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But it actually has become our central space is our
leadership programs, and we nowrun those not just ourselves
openly, but we also run themin-house.
So big corporates, universities,get us to come in and do a
leadership program for them andthat might involve some group
sessions and coaching,individual coaching on the side.
(09:52):
But the other big thing that wedidn't expect, the one that was
really out of the blue for us,was the membership space, and I
was referring earlier to theInstitute of Company Directors
and how they work, and I've beenaround them for 20, 25 years
now, as many of us have, andwatched how they'd developed and
how they'd built and I thoughtthat's not a bad sort of model
(10:17):
looking at something a bit likethat.
And suddenly people were comingout of the woodwork.
There are disability leaders.
They're all over corporate,corporate government running
their own businesses.
We have a high level ofself-employed entrepreneurs,
business people, consultants,and they all wanted something.
(10:37):
They needed that sense of notbeing alone, of having a
community of practice, of havinga network, and we've actually
now turned into the largestprofessional network of
disability leaders in thecountry, probably in the world
but in Australia.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Fantastic, it's amazing.
That's an awesome experience,awesome result.
So how big is your team now?
You started out just youemployed someone four months in.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It depends on where the flow of things is, but I've
just this week, literally thisweek employed two deputy CEOs,
so I've had to split myself intothree.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Fantastic Always hard to be three people, right?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, well, it's sort of.
You know, we're a bit of acollective executive team, which
I'm a bit excited by, but we'vegot people all over the country
.
Everyone works remotely, Evenour Canberra folk.
You know we get together forbreakfast occasionally, the
Canberra-based people, but we'vegot about I think, eight of us
(11:44):
at the moment working ondifferent things, including, you
know, a research project thatwe're doing with Sydney Uni.
We're looking at what goodemployment data looks like for
disability, so we're reallyexcited by where that might take
us.
We've got people on our coachingpanel.
We now have a panel of coaches,so it's not just me anymore and
(12:07):
we have enough coachingbusiness to farm that out to
several people.
And all of these are disabledpeople.
We only employ disabled peoplehighly experienced.
We've got several ex-governmentHR professionals who help us
out with things like ourmembership space and our general
operations and keeping oursystems and processes going.
(12:27):
And, of course, because we're asocial enterprise, we're
currently in the space ofsetting up our social impact
framework, Because if youhaven't got social impact
reporting, you may as well gohome and sit under a rock.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's right.
So where's your focus in yoursocial impact reporting?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's interesting because we have disparate sort
of client groups.
So we've got our members,obviously, and our members come.
They want a good membershipexperience, so we need to know
that that's working.
That's important.
We need to know that peoplefeel that they are no longer
alone and that they are actuallydeveloping as leaders.
But we also have all the peoplewho employ come to us as client
(13:06):
organisations who want to knowthat the work that we do is
actually producing goodleadership outcomes.
You know, if you sign someone upfor a leadership program that
costs a fair bit of moneybecause they always do then you
need to know that that person'sgoing to go back to your
organisation and it was worththe expense or the investment
one should say and so we need tobe able to report on those
(13:29):
things, and what we're findingis that the challenge of that is
actually being able tostructure a reporting framework
across all of those things sothat we're not doing so much
data collection and reportingthat it involves an entire first
full-time person to us, becausethey know that the people who
(13:58):
are members of the institute arepart of that network, of that
professional network, and thatthat means that there's a
certain amount of cachet thatgoes with that, and so people
are understood to be of acertain level, a certain
competence if they're members ofthe Disability Leadership
(14:19):
Institute.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It's like a badge of honour really Well, it is Sort
of a qualification.
You can get a lapel pinch, isthere?
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So, in your experience, what are the biggest
barriers preventing disabledpeople from stepping into
leadership roles?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I'll be brutally frank, greg, because I'm a bit
blunt.
I do the blunt Prejudice.
It's as simple as that.
There's still you know it's theclassic unconscious bias thing.
People still don't see thatputting those two words in the
(14:55):
same sentence is actuallysomething that happens naturally
.
And you know I first did thatback in 2016.
I put disability and leadershipin the same sentence and it's
actually changed the nationalconversation.
Governments now use that term.
It didn't exist before.
Nobody even thought of it as athing.
All of the government policyand programs are focused on
(15:18):
entry-level employment.
They don't actually have anyleadership stuff at government
level that they're focused on.
It doesn't exist.
And so there's this realassumption that disabled people
aren't in positions ofleadership because they're not
actually in the workforce at alland that we all just need to
get a job and one day we'll getthere, hot tip.
(15:38):
30 years ago they were sayingthe same thing.
So that's not the answer.
What we know in diversitycircles is that to change the
look of a workforce, to changehow it operates and to change
the culture, you actually needto be looking at the leadership.
We've learned that from genderequality.
(15:58):
We've certainly learned it fromculturally diverse communities
that if you want to actually geta diverse workforce that's
sustainable, you need to belooking at leadership, and we're
not there, and it's mainlybecause people look at somebody
like me.
I come with this large piece ofhardware that's underneath me.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's a wheelchair that's underneath me.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's a wheelchair for those who can't see us
Absolutely yeah, with purpletrim folks and people assume
that I'm actually.
For a start, they'll assume I'mliving on a pension.
There's no recognition.
When I go past you in thestreet, which I might do in the
centre of Canberra.
Folks, you've probably seen mearound no assumption that I
(16:38):
might be somebody who's been aCEO for a couple of decades, I
suppose, and that I operate atthat level, that I've
represented my country at the UN, that I regularly go up to
Parliament House as a guestspeaker and and am doing
keynotes all over the country.
Nobody actually looks at me andsees that they actually see a
disabled person in a wheelchairwho's probably needing support.
(17:00):
People even occasionally ask mewhere the person is.
Who's looking?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
after me today.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Really, absolutely.
It happens quite a bit.
So there's still thisinteresting community sort of
attitude thing that disabledpeople are not.
You know that we still needhelp and support to do things.
Now, sure, I need support,there's stuff I need help with,
but that doesn't mean that I'mnot actually a competent person
(17:26):
who can run an organisation orthat I'm not somebody who can
get up and deliver a 40-minutekeynote.
It's quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So how do we systemically start addressing
some of those challenges?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, as I was just referring to, it is about who's
in your organisation andthinking that constantly getting
people in at that entry level,so the most junior employee in
your organisation.
Sure, we need to be doing that,we need to be giving people
jobs, but we actually need torecognise that that's not going
to change the culture.
It's not going to help make theorganisation inclusive it's not
(18:06):
a word I use very often, by theway but what you actually need
to do that is changing at thetop.
It's when you shift the culture.
I'm going to give you anexample of Westpac who.
I was a Westpac social changefellow, so I was on the inside
for a little bit there and theymade a decision about five years
(18:28):
out from their bicentenary, in2017, that they would have
gender parity in theirleadership spaces by the
bicentenary of Westpac, one ofthe oldest companies in
Australia, as we know and theydid it.
They consciously got women intothe boardroom so that they
(18:50):
could crack the 50%, and theyconsciously appointed women to
their executive leadership team.
And we're not talking about youknow, it's very fashionable at
the moment to think that that'sabout diversity, highs and it's
all tokens, but we're actuallytalking about really competent
people here um.
You know you're not going tohack it absolutely not going to
hack it in one of thosepositions if you're really um up
(19:12):
for the job.
And I keep asking myself, howis it that all of those white
blokes are actually, um, youknow, not diversity hires when
everybody else is that can't bethe only people who are
qualified in this country, butthey did it.
They actually cracked the 50%and what changed was the entire
culture of Westpac, all the wayright down.
(19:34):
So, going to work at Westpac,how the work culture shifted,
things like flexible employment,things like where offices went,
things like how people shapedtheir hours, how remote work
looked, all of those things werechanged, even down to the times
of the board meetings.
All of it shifted in the sameway that our parliaments have
(19:56):
shifted.
We've now cracked, um, you knowwell, over 50 percent in the
act legislative assembly forsome years now, um, several
terms of the assembly, and andit's changed the way the
assembly operates, in the hoursthat it's sitting, what it does,
and it's probably workingbetter than it ever did as a
result.
So it's it's understanding thatgetting people in at the top.
(20:17):
It's when you've got decisionmakers, you've got people who
can influence culture.
If you've got people who arejunior staff, who have less
power.
They are far less able to raiseconcerns, but they're also far
less likely to be openlydisabled in the workplace,
because we know that only abouthalf of people are openly
(20:40):
disabled in their workplaces andthey're far less likely to
stick their hand up and say youknow, if we shifted this around
and did that, that might workbetter.
Or actually, that is animportant work entitlement for a
lot of people, not justdisabled people, but there's a
lot of people.
We're currently having thatwork from home discussion as
part of the federal electioncampaign.
(21:00):
That's reared its head again.
All of these sorts of thingsstart to shift.
It's not just about the workculture, though.
What we also know about havingmore disabled people in your
workplace.
Studies have shown, publishedin Harvard Business for the
other fans of Harvard BusinessReview out there 10% more
innovative in the workplace aredisabled staff.
(21:22):
So if you've got people on yourteam who actually look at the
world differently, operatedifferently, approach a building
differently yes, I had to comein the back door here this
morning all of those thingsyou've actually got people who
are really good at lateralthinking and problem solving.
That's innovation.
Canberra's great at innovation,so it's that stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So your challenge, I guess, is to your challenge to
business, I guess, is to startemploying people with
disabilities into some of thoseleadership roles.
Are there enough people outthere coming through the
pipeline of the leadershipDisabilities Leadership
Institute to fill those rolesand to make a difference, or do
(22:05):
you need to see more peoplecoming through your institute?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Both, both.
There's an awful lot of peopleout there who are highly
qualified, who actually can'tget work at all or are working
outside their field.
It's a little bit like thepeople who speak English as a
second language who have troublecoming into Australia and
finding work in their chosenfields.
Same sort of gig.
So there's both.
(22:30):
We actually run something calledthe National Register.
Fundamentally it's a jobs boardand all sorts of government
corporate organisations come tous on a regular basis to list
their positions, and sometimesvoluntary, sometimes usually
paid employment or, in fact,board positions.
(22:51):
And we've had organisations sayI wasn't really sure I'd be
happy if you could just find meone disabled person.
And they've come back to us andsaid now we've, you know, a
short list and we don't knowwhat to do.
We never actually put a processin place to select anybody.
We just wanted a disabledperson.
It's like no, there are peopleout there.
We've got all sorts of peopleon the books accountants,
(23:13):
lawyers, a lot of academics,specialists.
We havewe've got an astronaut.
We've got people who are highly, you know, mid to upper level
government employees.
We've got people who are seniorcorporate.
We've got partners in globalcorporates, commissioners, ceos.
There are people right acrossthe board.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So lots of talent out there, I guess the challenge is
how you match them into theroles.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
We don't do that People advertise their position
and people apply for them.
The thing I always say topeople is have a look at how
you're advertising, in the sameway that you might be using
language in your job ads thatisn't gender inclusive.
So, you know, I look at that asa woman and think, okay,
they're really not looking forme.
(23:59):
We kind of got past that a bitnow in Australia.
We've, you know, thankfullymoved down the track a little
bit to gender equality, but it'sa bit like that.
We've, you know, thankfully,moved down the track a little
bit to gender equality, but it'sa bit like that.
People often advertise theirpositions and they don't realise
that they're shaping it andsaying you must be able to do
this, this, this and that.
And, by the way, if you don'thave a driver's licence, you
can't have this job, when infact you'll never be driving
(24:21):
anywhere.
So why do you need that?
And the first thing thathappens is some disabled person
will look at that position andthink, oh, that would be the
perfect job for me, but Ihaven't got that driver's
licence so I can't do it.
So it's often how people shapetheir ads People self-select out
and then they get selected outagain at the recruitment process
(24:43):
, because recruitment is oftennot an inclusive process either.
We're all, we're all learningin this stuff.
I'm still learning as well.
We're all learning.
Um, none of us know everything.
So it is about recognizing thatthe talent is out there.
How are you actually speakingto it?
And, of course, as you and Iboth know, greg, people go
usually to our own networks.
You know, that's how we end upwith people who look all the
(25:06):
same in our organisations, andthat's fundamentally one of the
barriers to disabilityleadership is.
You know, we're not in a lot ofthose networks.
You know, very few of us areactually members of the company
directors.
Very few of us are actuallymembers of of the business
networks more broadly.
And when I go to Telstra,business awards, networks events
(25:32):
and things, because I'm aprevious finalist in the awards,
I might be the only disabledperson in the room and and so
we're not in the networks.
And so actually contactingpeople, you know saying, oh, do
you know someone who's good atthis?
Or I'm looking for a bookkeeper, or I've been trying to find
someone who can help out withthat.
Um, you know, we go to ourmates.
(25:52):
That's what we do in business.
It makes it easier.
Um, we haven't got theresources, so it is about
networks.
You know what do your networkslook like?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
how do they stretch absolutely?
Um, you're certainly welcome tocome along to some of our
networking events to try andbuild your network through the
Chamber, Absolutely, absolutelyLooking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It's all about time and things like that.
Yeah, no appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, look, you're doing lots of great work.
Disability LeadershipInstitute's been going for nine
years, coming on 10.
What's next for you and for theInstitute?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh, more, more, more, apparently.
Um, well, this currentrecruitment round, we're we're
in that incredible growth phase,um, you know.
So we've done our startup phase, um, we've done our sustain
phase.
You know, actually bed, bedourselves down as an
organization.
We've got the reputation, we'vegot the profile and what we are
(26:45):
now doing is looking to thenext 10, 20, 50 years and
thinking what's that look like?
How does that work, how doesthat come together?
It's, it's going to be big.
Um, for me, that means thatbeautiful moment of thinking how
do I get myself out of this?
And so you know, I've got anulterior motive here.
(27:05):
I mean, I'll still be aroundfor a while, of course.
Um, so, you know, we we are insuch demand at the moment for
our programs and workingin-house with organizations that
we're actually working toservice that.
Hence the the sudden growththat we're doing.
So we're in that phase oftrying to make sure that we grow
sustainably, um that we don'tbite off more than we can chew
(27:27):
and do the whole implode, umthing that is such a danger to a
small organization.
Um, yeah, our onward and upward, basically now.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Your experience obviously is really interesting,
and there'll be peoplelistening to this who are in the
early stages of starting theirown businesses.
What's been your biggestlearning as a as a startup?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
um, something that I encountered a number of times
when I was first getting goingwas uh, actually it was all
blokes.
Um, it really was a genderedthing, but people coming to me
and saying where are you goingfor investors, where are you
getting a grant from, how areyou approaching funders?
And I said I'm not, and theywere really shocked.
(28:09):
It's like you don't have tolook like a big flash business
right at the outset, and Iactually think this is the way a
lot of female founders work,given that we get less than four
percent of investment, as weknow.
That's another issue.
But it was all done on thesmell of an oily rag, that that
rapid startup thing.
So all I had cost me about two,two grand get a domain name,
(28:33):
get the bells and whistles thatgo with it, um, register the
name and get going and run onthe money that you make.
Now I was doing that as a sidehustle for a very short period
of time and, as I said, withinfour to six months I had to
start employing other people.
So you know I had to jump offand just jump off the cliff and
(28:56):
do it, which I was very lucky ithappened.
Now it doesn't work like thatfor everybody.
For some people it can be alonger grind, but what I've
observed through some of ourmembers at the Disability
Leadership Institute who areentrepreneurs who are running
their own businesses, is theexpectation that you'll be
successful in three or sixmonths is actually really
dangerous because it doesn'tactually happen.
(29:17):
It takes about three years, youknow.
And if you're not givingyourself, say, three years to
get where you're going, threeyears of profile building, of
coming up with your products, oforganising your systems and
processes, of getting out thereand getting your brand out into
the community in whatever yourcommunity is, then you're not
(29:39):
going to make it.
And we did that.
We did the hard yards, thewhole thing about talking
disability leadership, content,content, content, networks,
networks, networks and profilebuilding.
And I noticed it happened atabout the two and a half three
year mark.
We were starting to have peoplecome to us.
(30:01):
We didn't have to go lookingfor people, for clients in the
same.
We're now in that positionwhere members come to us.
We don't really get out thereand, you know, look for them.
Our members are actually ourbest ambassadors.
They sell us for us.
We don't have to do it and infact now we're in a position
where our corporate clients areclearly talking to each other
(30:22):
amongst various networks, likethe disability networks inside
some of the big organisations,and so they all are coming to us
based on word of mouth, butthat takes time.
That doesn't happen in insideyour first year yeah, and?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
and what's the secret to that?
Just getting on with the job,doing the hard yards?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
hard yards.
Consistency um, if you changewhat you're doing every five
minutes, or if you change yourimage or if you change your name
I've seen people try and dothat you've got to start all
over again.
So it's actually consistencyGet your brand in place and do
it.
Entity structure.
(31:08):
We started out as a sole traderbecause I thought, oh yeah,
I'll do that and then I'll worryabout GST.
I did GST registration first upbecause I thought that helps to
look professional, but theninside two years we had to
become a registered companybecause otherwise the tax was
going to become a bit awkward.
So I was very lucky to have avery good accountant right from
the outset.
Get good people around you, getan advisory board.
(31:28):
Don't go it alone.
You might be working on yourown in your business, but have
good people around you.
Have that advisory board of oftrusted people that you can go
to and get horrible truths frompeople that ask you questions
you'd rather not answer and useit.
Listen to them.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Excellent, some great advice there.
Christina Ryan, thank you somuch for joining us here on the
Canberra Business Podcast.
It's been a pleasure having youon and really great to hear a
little bit more about theDisability Leadership Institute
and indeed, your learnings andexperiences over time.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Art of pleasure to be here, greg, and you can find us
at disabilityleaderscomau.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Excellent.
Thank you very much, christina,and just a reminder that this
episode of the Canberra BusinessPodcast has been brought to you
by the Business Chamber withthe support of Care Super, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
You can learn more atcaresupercomau and don't forget
to follow us on your favouritepodcast platform for future
episodes of the CanberraBusiness Podcast.
(32:29):
Christina Ryan, thank you somuch for your time.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Greg.
Hello and welcome to the Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford, your hostfrom the Canberra Business
Chamber, and today I'm joined byChristina Ryan, who founded the
Disability Leadership Institutein 2016 and was an ACT nominee
this year for Australian of theYear.
Christina, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thanks, greg, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now you founded the Disability Leadership Institute
what nine years ago now?
To address issues aroundprofessional development
services for people withdisabilities and your role there
.
Your goal is to kind of fosterleadership and career
development.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour journey and what led you to
(00:48):
become such a prominentadvocate for disability
leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, I'm not an advocate anymore.
I used to be an advocate.
I've given it away.
I've given it away.
Now I'm a leadership coach, butI was an advocate.
I've spent most of my lifemaking change, doing things to
make the world a more equalplace, and I was running a
disability advocacy organisation.
(01:13):
And they're the organisationsthey're all very small, about 70
of them across the country thatsupport disabled people to be
heard, get alongside them,people who live in some of those
segregated environments likegroup houses and sheltered
workshops, and so we're runninga team of advocates and we were
(01:34):
just seeing the same thing overand over again every day.
Every day and I don't know ifyour listeners would recall, but
there were two separate FourCorners episodes talking about
appalling violence and abusethat was happening in group
houses that people were livingin and institutional
(01:54):
environments, and they're theplaces that we were working in.
It's pretty tough stuff.
It's really hard, not veryglamorous at all.
It's actually the hidden worldthat people prefer not to think
about in disability.
We were campaigning for theRoyal Commission during this
period.
We knew something like thatneeded to happen and those Four
Corners episodes were saying thesame thing over and over again
(02:18):
and telling us what we wereseeing every day and they were
just saying it over and overagain, and it was particularly
particularly the second episode.
There was a moment where thereporter who'd put the episode
together talked about how shedidn't initially believe the
advocates who told her thesestories.
They were mainly people workingin New South Wales and Victoria
(02:40):
, not the ACT, but it was allthe same stories and she didn't
really believe it.
She thought that the advocateswere being dramatic and making
the stories sound a bit moreghastly than they really were,
until she went in and sherealised that there was no need
for that, that these storieswere true, that this was
(03:00):
actually how people were living.
It was really tough stuff andit is hard, it's very tough
stuff and you're pretty much theambulance at the bottom of the
cliff.
That's the story of a lot ofcommunity organisations in
Canberra and we were sittingthere at the team meeting the
day after the second one ofthese episodes and my team were
(03:22):
distressed by it.
Of course it was what we wereseeing every day.
Most of my team were distressedby it.
Of course it was what we wereseeing every day.
Most of my team were disabledpeople, which is very unusual
for disability advocacyorganisations.
Most of them are run byfamilies, carers, people around
disabled people.
Very few are run by disabledpeople and one of my team just
(03:45):
threw a head back and said whydon't they believe us?
We keep telling them this ishappening and I had one of those
moments of clarity you have inyour life where I realised that
the reason they don't believe usis because we're disabled
people.
And it was what the reporterwas saying.
(04:05):
Everybody thinks we're making abig thing of it, that we're
dramatising it, that we'retalking it up.
And it is shocking stuff, but italso is how we marginalise
people in our community.
It's not just disabled people,but people generally.
We can actually, it's easierfor people to look away or to
think oh, that's only one case,it's not a systemic issue, and
(04:30):
it was that moment where Irealised that they don't listen
to us.
We're disabled people.
That's actually about where'sthe power, where is the space
that we are in the rooms ofpeople who make decisions, who
allocate the budgets, who decidewhat will get the media, the
(04:51):
political, the general publiccoverage of anything?
And it wasn't us, and so theanswer is actually equality.
Now, duh, duh.
I mean that's a big picturechange.
You know, I'm not frightened ofsomething big.
I've been doing that for awhile, so no pressure there then
, and I realised at that pointthat what we really needed was
(05:15):
disabled people in leadership,in positions of power and
decision-making in the roomswhere things are decided, where
it matters, and we're not there.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, and this was the catalyst to form the
Disability Leadership Institute.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Absolutely it was and I spoke.
I spent a couple of months.
I talked to a number ofcolleagues, trusted friends in
the community and others, and werealised that over about 20
years there had been somethinglike half a dozen pilot projects
on disability leadership inAustralia nationally.
There was nothing else.
(05:52):
There was no consistent workbeing done.
There was nowhere that youcould go.
We've got lots of work beingdone on women's leadership,
which needs to happen.
We need to have gender equalityin our leadership spaces.
There's some really good workbeing done in the First Nations
community and there's aparticularly good First Nations
Leadership Institute, but therewas absolutely nothing being
(06:14):
done on disabled people havingaccess to leadership development
.
Community of practice the sortof thing that you and I would
look at and think that thecompany directors do, for
example, they're a community ofpractice.
The sort of thing that you andI would look at and think that
the company directors do, forexample, they're a community of
practice.
They're a bunch of people whohave all got their company
directors diploma and they siton boards and they talk about
what it's like to do that andwhat good practice looks like.
(06:36):
Absolutely nothing like thatfor disabled people in Australia
.
So Disability Leadership-Institute.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So so tell us about the institute.
What is it that you do, and howbig have you grown?
And what's the journey beenover the last nine years?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, well fast, I'd have to say.
It was the classic example ofright place, right time, one of
those blue ocean stories.
And so the minute we were, youknow, we started.
I mean, it was me back in theearly days.
The minute I got out there andstarted talking about this and
setting it up, people wanted in,people wanted a piece of it.
(07:11):
The thing that did surprise mewas it wasn't just Australians,
it was actually colleagues allover the planet in the
disability community.
Yes, because there's not muchout there generally, and in fact
at the time we were the onlyorganisation that was
specifically focused ondisability leadership on the
planet.
Now there's two or three others, but it was the one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So you were really groundbreaking in terms of what
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah Well, hey, disabled people don't do
leadership.
Greg, we're not supposed to bein those places.
So we started off thinking we'dbe doing a lot of consulting
work and I would have to say Iput together an advisory board
not all disabled people and wethought that was it.
But then you've got to be ableto monetise.
(07:56):
You've got to actually be ableto get out there and earn money
at what you're doing.
It's not just about feelinggood and deciding that something
needs to happen If you can'tgenerate income and sustain a
business.
And the Disability LeadershipInstitute is a private company,
we're not a charity, we're not acommunity organisation, we are,
in fact, a profit-making socialenterprise and so we have to
(08:17):
generate income.
And we rapidly realised thatmaking money out of disabled
people is a bit fraught, becausehalf of all disabled people
don't work.
The ones that do are often inpart-time and poorly paid jobs,
and actually it we were wrong.
Within about six months, I hademployed somebody actually it
(08:41):
was about four months and we hadall sorts of people governments
around the country, othercorporates coming to us and
asking us if we could runprograms for them, all based on
the fact that if you Googledisability and leadership.
You got us.
We were it.
I get an enormous amount ofspam saying you know, improve
(09:04):
your SEO.
And of course it's all rubbish.
I don't need it because everytime you.
Google, disability andleadership.
You get us anyway.
So I thought go away, don'tneed you.
So we were really lucky rightplace, right time and we're
still here, right.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So the vision of kind of doing lots of consultancy
work morphed into runningprograms and training,
essentially for corporate wealways had an idea that we'd run
training and do that.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But it actually has become our central space is our
leadership programs, and we nowrun those not just ourselves
openly, but we also run themin-house.
So big corporates, universities,get us to come in and do a
leadership program for them andthat might involve some group
sessions and coaching,individual coaching on the side.
(09:52):
But the other big thing that wedidn't expect, the one that was
really out of the blue for us,was the membership space, and I
was referring earlier to theInstitute of Company Directors
and how they work, and I've beenaround them for 20, 25 years
now, as many of us have, andwatched how they'd developed and
how they'd built and I thoughtthat's not a bad sort of model
(10:17):
looking at something a bit likethat.
And suddenly people were comingout of the woodwork.
There are disability leaders.
They're all over corporate,corporate government running
their own businesses.
We have a high level ofself-employed entrepreneurs,
business people, consultants,and they all wanted something.
(10:37):
They needed that sense of notbeing alone, of having a
community of practice, of havinga network, and we've actually
now turned into the largestprofessional network of
disability leaders in thecountry, probably in the world
but in Australia.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Fantastic, it's amazing.
That's an awesome experience,awesome result.
So how big is your team now?
You started out just youemployed someone four months in.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It depends on where the flow of things is, but I've
just this week, literally thisweek employed two deputy CEOs,
so I've had to split myself intothree.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Fantastic Always hard to be three people, right?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, well, it's sort of.
You know, we're a bit of acollective executive team, which
I'm a bit excited by, but we'vegot people all over the country
.
Everyone works remotely, Evenour Canberra folk.
You know we get together forbreakfast occasionally, the
Canberra-based people, but we'vegot about I think, eight of us
(11:44):
at the moment working ondifferent things, including, you
know, a research project thatwe're doing with Sydney Uni.
We're looking at what goodemployment data looks like for
disability, so we're reallyexcited by where that might take
us.
We've got people on our coachingpanel.
We now have a panel of coaches,so it's not just me anymore and
(12:07):
we have enough coachingbusiness to farm that out to
several people.
And all of these are disabledpeople.
We only employ disabled peoplehighly experienced.
We've got several ex-governmentHR professionals who help us
out with things like ourmembership space and our general
operations and keeping oursystems and processes going.
(12:27):
And, of course, because we're asocial enterprise, we're
currently in the space ofsetting up our social impact
framework, Because if youhaven't got social impact
reporting, you may as well gohome and sit under a rock.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's right.
So where's your focus in yoursocial impact reporting?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It's interesting because we have disparate sort
of client groups.
So we've got our members,obviously, and our members come.
They want a good membershipexperience, so we need to know
that that's working.
That's important.
We need to know that peoplefeel that they are no longer
alone and that they are actuallydeveloping as leaders.
But we also have all the peoplewho employ come to us as client
(13:06):
organisations who want to knowthat the work that we do is
actually producing goodleadership outcomes.
You know, if you sign someone upfor a leadership program that
costs a fair bit of moneybecause they always do then you
need to know that that person'sgoing to go back to your
organisation and it was worththe expense or the investment
one should say and so we need tobe able to report on those
(13:29):
things, and what we're findingis that the challenge of that is
actually being able tostructure a reporting framework
across all of those things sothat we're not doing so much
data collection and reportingthat it involves an entire first
full-time person to us, becausethey know that the people who
(13:58):
are members of the institute arepart of that network, of that
professional network, and thatthat means that there's a
certain amount of cachet thatgoes with that, and so people
are understood to be of acertain level, a certain
competence if they're members ofthe Disability Leadership
(14:19):
Institute.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It's like a badge of honour really Well, it is Sort
of a qualification.
You can get a lapel pinch, isthere?
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So, in your experience, what are the biggest
barriers preventing disabledpeople from stepping into
leadership roles?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I'll be brutally frank, greg, because I'm a bit
blunt.
I do the blunt Prejudice.
It's as simple as that.
There's still you know it's theclassic unconscious bias thing.
People still don't see thatputting those two words in the
(14:55):
same sentence is actuallysomething that happens naturally
.
And you know I first did thatback in 2016.
I put disability and leadershipin the same sentence and it's
actually changed the nationalconversation.
Governments now use that term.
It didn't exist before.
Nobody even thought of it as athing.
All of the government policyand programs are focused on
(15:18):
entry-level employment.
They don't actually have anyleadership stuff at government
level that they're focused on.
It doesn't exist.
And so there's this realassumption that disabled people
aren't in positions ofleadership because they're not
actually in the workforce at alland that we all just need to
get a job and one day we'll getthere, hot tip.
(15:38):
30 years ago they were sayingthe same thing.
So that's not the answer.
What we know in diversitycircles is that to change the
look of a workforce, to changehow it operates and to change
the culture, you actually needto be looking at the leadership.
We've learned that from genderequality.
(15:58):
We've certainly learned it fromculturally diverse communities
that if you want to actually geta diverse workforce that's
sustainable, you need to belooking at leadership, and we're
not there, and it's mainlybecause people look at somebody
like me.
I come with this large piece ofhardware that's underneath me.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's a wheelchair that's underneath me.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
That's a wheelchair for those who can't see us
Absolutely yeah, with purpletrim folks and people assume
that I'm actually.
For a start, they'll assume I'mliving on a pension.
There's no recognition.
When I go past you in thestreet, which I might do in the
centre of Canberra.
Folks, you've probably seen mearound no assumption that I
(16:38):
might be somebody who's been aCEO for a couple of decades, I
suppose, and that I operate atthat level, that I've
represented my country at the UN, that I regularly go up to
Parliament House as a guestspeaker and and am doing
keynotes all over the country.
Nobody actually looks at me andsees that they actually see a
disabled person in a wheelchairwho's probably needing support.
(17:00):
People even occasionally ask mewhere the person is.
Who's looking?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
after me today.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Really, absolutely.
It happens quite a bit.
So there's still thisinteresting community sort of
attitude thing that disabledpeople are not.
You know that we still needhelp and support to do things.
Now, sure, I need support,there's stuff I need help with,
but that doesn't mean that I'mnot actually a competent person
(17:26):
who can run an organisation orthat I'm not somebody who can
get up and deliver a 40-minutekeynote.
It's quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So how do we systemically start addressing
some of those challenges?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, as I was just referring to, it is about who's
in your organisation andthinking that constantly getting
people in at that entry level,so the most junior employee in
your organisation.
Sure, we need to be doing that,we need to be giving people
jobs, but we actually need torecognise that that's not going
to change the culture.
It's not going to help make theorganisation inclusive it's not
(18:06):
a word I use very often, by theway but what you actually need
to do that is changing at thetop.
It's when you shift the culture.
I'm going to give you anexample of Westpac who.
I was a Westpac social changefellow, so I was on the inside
for a little bit there and theymade a decision about five years
(18:28):
out from their bicentenary, in2017, that they would have
gender parity in theirleadership spaces by the
bicentenary of Westpac, one ofthe oldest companies in
Australia, as we know and theydid it.
They consciously got women intothe boardroom so that they
(18:50):
could crack the 50%, and theyconsciously appointed women to
their executive leadership team.
And we're not talking about youknow, it's very fashionable at
the moment to think that that'sabout diversity, highs and it's
all tokens, but we're actuallytalking about really competent
people here um.
You know you're not going tohack it absolutely not going to
hack it in one of thosepositions if you're really um up
(19:12):
for the job.
And I keep asking myself, howis it that all of those white
blokes are actually, um, youknow, not diversity hires when
everybody else is that can't bethe only people who are
qualified in this country, butthey did it.
They actually cracked the 50%and what changed was the entire
culture of Westpac, all the wayright down.
(19:34):
So, going to work at Westpac,how the work culture shifted,
things like flexible employment,things like where offices went,
things like how people shapedtheir hours, how remote work
looked, all of those things werechanged, even down to the times
of the board meetings.
All of it shifted in the sameway that our parliaments have
(19:56):
shifted.
We've now cracked, um, you knowwell, over 50 percent in the
act legislative assembly forsome years now, um, several
terms of the assembly, and andit's changed the way the
assembly operates, in the hoursthat it's sitting, what it does,
and it's probably workingbetter than it ever did as a
result.
So it's it's understanding thatgetting people in at the top.
(20:17):
It's when you've got decisionmakers, you've got people who
can influence culture.
If you've got people who arejunior staff, who have less
power.
They are far less able to raiseconcerns, but they're also far
less likely to be openlydisabled in the workplace,
because we know that only abouthalf of people are openly
(20:40):
disabled in their workplaces andthey're far less likely to
stick their hand up and say youknow, if we shifted this around
and did that, that might workbetter.
Or actually, that is animportant work entitlement for a
lot of people, not justdisabled people, but there's a
lot of people.
We're currently having thatwork from home discussion as
part of the federal electioncampaign.
(21:00):
That's reared its head again.
All of these sorts of thingsstart to shift.
It's not just about the workculture, though.
What we also know about havingmore disabled people in your
workplace.
Studies have shown, publishedin Harvard Business for the
other fans of Harvard BusinessReview out there 10% more
innovative in the workplace aredisabled staff.
(21:22):
So if you've got people on yourteam who actually look at the
world differently, operatedifferently, approach a building
differently yes, I had to comein the back door here this
morning all of those thingsyou've actually got people who
are really good at lateralthinking and problem solving.
That's innovation.
Canberra's great at innovation,so it's that stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So your challenge, I guess, is to your challenge to
business, I guess, is to startemploying people with
disabilities into some of thoseleadership roles.
Are there enough people outthere coming through the
pipeline of the leadershipDisabilities Leadership
Institute to fill those rolesand to make a difference, or do
(22:05):
you need to see more peoplecoming through your institute?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Both, both.
There's an awful lot of peopleout there who are highly
qualified, who actually can'tget work at all or are working
outside their field.
It's a little bit like thepeople who speak English as a
second language who have troublecoming into Australia and
finding work in their chosenfields.
Same sort of gig.
So there's both.
(22:30):
We actually run something calledthe National Register.
Fundamentally it's a jobs boardand all sorts of government
corporate organisations come tous on a regular basis to list
their positions, and sometimesvoluntary, sometimes usually
paid employment or, in fact,board positions.
(22:51):
And we've had organisations sayI wasn't really sure I'd be
happy if you could just find meone disabled person.
And they've come back to us andsaid now we've, you know, a
short list and we don't knowwhat to do.
We never actually put a processin place to select anybody.
We just wanted a disabledperson.
It's like no, there are peopleout there.
We've got all sorts of peopleon the books accountants,
(23:13):
lawyers, a lot of academics,specialists.
We havewe've got an astronaut.
We've got people who are highly, you know, mid to upper level
government employees.
We've got people who are seniorcorporate.
We've got partners in globalcorporates, commissioners, ceos.
There are people right acrossthe board.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So lots of talent out there, I guess the challenge is
how you match them into theroles.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
We don't do that People advertise their position
and people apply for them.
The thing I always say topeople is have a look at how
you're advertising, in the sameway that you might be using
language in your job ads thatisn't gender inclusive.
So, you know, I look at that asa woman and think, okay,
they're really not looking forme.
(23:59):
We kind of got past that a bitnow in Australia.
We've, you know, thankfullymoved down the track a little
bit to gender equality, but it'sa bit like that.
We've, you know, thankfully,moved down the track a little
bit to gender equality, but it'sa bit like that.
People often advertise theirpositions and they don't realise
that they're shaping it andsaying you must be able to do
this, this, this and that.
And, by the way, if you don'thave a driver's licence, you
can't have this job, when infact you'll never be driving
(24:21):
anywhere.
So why do you need that?
And the first thing thathappens is some disabled person
will look at that position andthink, oh, that would be the
perfect job for me, but Ihaven't got that driver's
licence so I can't do it.
So it's often how people shapetheir ads People self-select out
and then they get selected outagain at the recruitment process
(24:43):
, because recruitment is oftennot an inclusive process either.
We're all, we're all learningin this stuff.
I'm still learning as well.
We're all learning.
Um, none of us know everything.
So it is about recognizing thatthe talent is out there.
How are you actually speakingto it?
And, of course, as you and Iboth know, greg, people go
usually to our own networks.
You know, that's how we end upwith people who look all the
(25:06):
same in our organisations, andthat's fundamentally one of the
barriers to disabilityleadership is.
You know, we're not in a lot ofthose networks.
You know, very few of us areactually members of the company
directors.
Very few of us are actuallymembers of of the business
networks more broadly.
And when I go to Telstra,business awards, networks events
(25:32):
and things, because I'm aprevious finalist in the awards,
I might be the only disabledperson in the room and and so
we're not in the networks.
And so actually contactingpeople, you know saying, oh, do
you know someone who's good atthis?
Or I'm looking for a bookkeeper, or I've been trying to find
someone who can help out withthat.
Um, you know, we go to ourmates.
(25:52):
That's what we do in business.
It makes it easier.
Um, we haven't got theresources, so it is about
networks.
You know what do your networkslook like?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
how do they stretch absolutely?
Um, you're certainly welcome tocome along to some of our
networking events to try andbuild your network through the
Chamber, Absolutely, absolutelyLooking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It's all about time and things like that.
Yeah, no appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, look, you're doing lots of great work.
Disability LeadershipInstitute's been going for nine
years, coming on 10.
What's next for you and for theInstitute?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh, more, more, more, apparently.
Um, well, this currentrecruitment round, we're we're
in that incredible growth phase,um, you know.
So we've done our startup phase, um, we've done our sustain
phase.
You know, actually bed, bedourselves down as an
organization.
We've got the reputation, we'vegot the profile and what we are
(26:45):
now doing is looking to thenext 10, 20, 50 years and
thinking what's that look like?
How does that work, how doesthat come together?
It's, it's going to be big.
Um, for me, that means thatbeautiful moment of thinking how
do I get myself out of this?
And so you know, I've got anulterior motive here.
(27:05):
I mean, I'll still be aroundfor a while, of course.
Um, so, you know, we we are insuch demand at the moment for
our programs and workingin-house with organizations that
we're actually working toservice that.
Hence the the sudden growththat we're doing.
So we're in that phase oftrying to make sure that we grow
sustainably, um that we don'tbite off more than we can chew
(27:27):
and do the whole implode, umthing that is such a danger to a
small organization.
Um, yeah, our onward and upward, basically now.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Your experience obviously is really interesting,
and there'll be peoplelistening to this who are in the
early stages of starting theirown businesses.
What's been your biggestlearning as a as a startup?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
um, something that I encountered a number of times
when I was first getting goingwas uh, actually it was all
blokes.
Um, it really was a genderedthing, but people coming to me
and saying where are you goingfor investors, where are you
getting a grant from, how areyou approaching funders?
And I said I'm not, and theywere really shocked.
(28:09):
It's like you don't have tolook like a big flash business
right at the outset, and Iactually think this is the way a
lot of female founders work,given that we get less than four
percent of investment, as weknow.
That's another issue.
But it was all done on thesmell of an oily rag, that that
rapid startup thing.
So all I had cost me about two,two grand get a domain name,
(28:33):
get the bells and whistles thatgo with it, um, register the
name and get going and run onthe money that you make.
Now I was doing that as a sidehustle for a very short period
of time and, as I said, withinfour to six months I had to
start employing other people.
So you know I had to jump offand just jump off the cliff and
(28:56):
do it, which I was very lucky ithappened.
Now it doesn't work like thatfor everybody.
For some people it can be alonger grind, but what I've
observed through some of ourmembers at the Disability
Leadership Institute who areentrepreneurs who are running
their own businesses, is theexpectation that you'll be
successful in three or sixmonths is actually really
dangerous because it doesn'tactually happen.
(29:17):
It takes about three years, youknow.
And if you're not givingyourself, say, three years to
get where you're going, threeyears of profile building, of
coming up with your products, oforganising your systems and
processes, of getting out thereand getting your brand out into
the community in whatever yourcommunity is, then you're not
(29:39):
going to make it.
And we did that.
We did the hard yards, thewhole thing about talking
disability leadership, content,content, content, networks,
networks, networks and profilebuilding.
And I noticed it happened atabout the two and a half three
year mark.
We were starting to have peoplecome to us.
(30:01):
We didn't have to go lookingfor people, for clients in the
same.
We're now in that positionwhere members come to us.
We don't really get out thereand, you know, look for them.
Our members are actually ourbest ambassadors.
They sell us for us.
We don't have to do it and infact now we're in a position
where our corporate clients areclearly talking to each other
(30:22):
amongst various networks, likethe disability networks inside
some of the big organisations,and so they all are coming to us
based on word of mouth, butthat takes time.
That doesn't happen in insideyour first year yeah, and?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
and what's the secret to that?
Just getting on with the job,doing the hard yards?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
hard yards.
Consistency um, if you changewhat you're doing every five
minutes, or if you change yourimage or if you change your name
I've seen people try and dothat you've got to start all
over again.
So it's actually consistencyGet your brand in place and do
it.
Entity structure.
(31:08):
We started out as a sole traderbecause I thought, oh yeah,
I'll do that and then I'll worryabout GST.
I did GST registration first upbecause I thought that helps to
look professional, but theninside two years we had to
become a registered companybecause otherwise the tax was
going to become a bit awkward.
So I was very lucky to have avery good accountant right from
the outset.
Get good people around you, getan advisory board.
(31:28):
Don't go it alone.
You might be working on yourown in your business, but have
good people around you.
Have that advisory board of oftrusted people that you can go
to and get horrible truths frompeople that ask you questions
you'd rather not answer and useit.
Listen to them.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Excellent, some great advice there.
Christina Ryan, thank you somuch for joining us here on the
Canberra Business Podcast.
It's been a pleasure having youon and really great to hear a
little bit more about theDisability Leadership Institute
and indeed, your learnings andexperiences over time.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Art of pleasure to be here, greg, and you can find us
at disabilityleaderscomau.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Excellent.
Thank you very much, christina,and just a reminder that this
episode of the Canberra BusinessPodcast has been brought to you
by the Business Chamber withthe support of Care Super, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
You can learn more atcaresupercomau and don't forget
to follow us on your favouritepodcast platform for future
episodes of the CanberraBusiness Podcast.
(32:29):
Christina Ryan, thank you somuch for your time.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Greg.
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