February 2, 2025 • 26 mins
How can we create a safer community through mental health education and crisis support? Join us as we engage in a compelling conversation with Carrie-Ann Leeson, the Chief Executive of Lifeline Canberra, who shares her profound insights into the critical work her organization is doing. With a network of nearly 1,000 dedicated volunteers, including 400 highly-trained crisis supporters, Lifeline Canberra plays a pivotal role in suicide prevention and mental health education.
Carrie-Ann sheds light on the increasing number of calls related to anxiety, burnout, antisocial behavior, isolation and unique pressures experienced by small business owners. We discuss the urgent need for adaptability in addressing these issues and examine how we can work proactively to halt crises before they begin.
This episode is supported by CareSuper.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Greg Harford from the Canberra Business Chamber,
and this is the CanberraBusiness Podcast.
Today we're talking aboutmental health and running
not-for-profit organisations,and I'm really pleased to be
joined by Carrie Ann Leeson, theChief Executive of Lifeline
Canberra.
Carrie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now, most people here in Canberra will have heard of
Lifeline.
You've got a high profile.
You're an organisation thatexists to support people in
crisis and help save lives,particularly with a focus on
those experiencing thoughts ofsuicide.
It's really important work, butwhat are you actually doing in
the business to help those inneed?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Look, thank you for that description.
It is ultimately, for those ofus that work or associate or
volunteer with Lifeline Canberra, it's an organisation we can't
imagine a world without.
So, in terms of what we do, weoffer both preventative
intervention and postventionservices.
We concentrate on the Canberracommunity.
(01:06):
We offer our services eitherface-to-face in the prevention
space, with training, trying toeducate, whether it's suicide,
mental health, first aid,whether it's accidental
counselling or whether it'sdealing with people in difficult
situations.
On the front line, we work very, very closely in intervention
with our emergency services.
(01:27):
We have a very wonderfulrelationship with them that
spans over many decades.
It's a very, very tough spaceand we provide not only support
for them but we rely on them aswell with our service.
And then, of course, in thepostvention space, we deal with
bereaved by suicide supportgroups, individuals who have
lost loved ones to suicide.
So it's an incredibly difficultspace for the volunteers and
(01:51):
for our team to sit, but it iseasily the most rewarding
because you can see the impacton our wonderful community here
in Canberra.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Now many people when they hear about Lifeline they'll
be thinking about a crisissupport line.
But that education and trainingcomponent of what you do.
How does that work?
Who are you training and whatsort of things does that cover?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
yes.
So essentially it's sointeresting to me.
We have grown up and it's justa culturally so appropriate for
workplaces and individualswhether you're starting a family
or otherwise to take a firstaid course.
We all know how to treat asnake bite or a spider bite or a
cut.
We all know who to call in theinstance that we do have a
(02:34):
physical injury.
We are working day and night totry and educate people around
the benefits of doing mentalhealth first aid.
It's one of the biggest issuesthat most of us will face at
some point in our life, eitherourselves or supporting others,
and having the skills to be ableto do that in a meaningful and
measurable way is something thatwe should all be aiming to do.
(02:55):
I wish that everyone would makeit a resolution this year to do
some first aid training, dosome mental health first aid
training.
We'll all be safer as a result.
But the beautiful thing aboutmental health training is it
starts with yourself.
It starts with understandingself-awareness and understanding
your own signals when you aremoving along a continuum of
mental health.
We do that in the workplacesetting, in the community
(03:18):
setting and also privately.
People come in and book intoour public sessions for training
.
We do different levels oftraining depending on what
you're interested in.
If you're looking at self-careand self-awareness, we have
incredibly powerful coursesthere.
We do mental health first aidand training that's around just
understanding mental health as aconcept, understanding the
(03:39):
signs, how to have a toughconversation with individuals if
you notice that they'restruggling.
And then we do suicide firstaid and suicide intervention
training.
Our crisis supporters undertakethree months of training to be
able to take a call.
That allows them to pick upthat phone, not knowing what
might come down the other end,and be able to support the
individual through that moment.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, and that must be pretty harrowing for the
people who are taking thosecalls for your volunteers.
How many volunteers have yougot?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, so close to 1,000 volunteers.
Here in Canberra we have thehighest volunteer-to-population
ratio in the country by a longshot.
So it is the most incrediblecommunity.
We are so grateful to everyonethat volunteers and supports
Lifeline Canberra.
But it proves itself wheneverwe go to our national conference
and we get put on a graph.
(04:26):
So thank you.
Big shout out to everyone andall of our volunteers there.
We have around 1,000, around 400are on the phones and they have
to do a fortnightly shift to beable to maintain that crisis
supporter badge.
That's for two reasons they doa lot of professional
development, we do clinicalsupervision, we do ongoing
training and then, of course,there's time on the phones and
(04:47):
that's for their safety as wellas the safety of the caller.
The individuals, believe it ornot, by the time they get to
taking that call they are ready,as you say.
It sounds a bit daunting.
Having started on the phonesmyself about 15 years ago, I
remember going through thetraining and being very ready to
take that first call.
The amount of support thatLaughline Canberra staff the
(05:09):
supervisors give to the crisissupporters makes them feel very
supported in that moment,irrespective of what comes down
the phone.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So 1,000 volunteers, 400 on the phones.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
How big is?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
your team.
It must be reasonably sized tobe able to manage that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
There are 14 paid team members at Lifeline
Canberra, so we operate at aratio of about 1 to 90.
They are the most incrediblehumans.
They've all come to Lifelineeither through volunteering
themselves and, like myself, sawan opportunity to just dive
right in.
But these individuals workacross training, administration
(05:45):
and then, obviously, the safety,training and supervision of the
crisis support teams.
We've also got a couple ofincredible humans out at the
warehouse who support thevolunteers, who are processing
and sorting all of our donationsfor the book fairs.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So, in terms of how you fundraise, you've got a book
fair every year.
You seek donations from peoplein the community and corporates.
But I mean, are there otherways?
How are you funded?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
yeah.
So one of the first issues Iguess for me to solve coming
into the role was the issuearound funding.
The government funding that wereceive is around the two
hundred thousand dollar perannum mark.
That's um very little if youlook at the amount of service we
provide in Canberra to over40,000 Canberrans.
Almost 10% of the Canberracommunity utilize our services
(06:34):
at some point during a year.
So we had to find another way.
We developed commercialoperations so we generate our
own revenue through thecorporate training.
We have evidence-based programsand partnerships with Canada,
licenses that only exist throughour brand and we deliver
training through departments,through the emergency services,
through private sector andcommunity sector organizations,
(06:57):
and that generates the revenuethat we require to be able to
deliver the service to the highdegree that we do.
We also then have all of ourfundraising.
Which is the lifeblood of ourorganisation is that book fair.
We have three a year.
They are huge.
We've also got our gala eventsand then we've got incredible
third-party fundraising whereindividuals come to us and say I
(07:19):
would like to do this, that orthe next thing and we want the
proceeds to go to your services.
So we work across all of thoseareas financially to be able to
sustain the service.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And the service is well used.
Right, I understand there's 35,perhaps a little over 35,000
callers a year into Lifelinethat suggests that demand is
massive really out there in thecommunity.
What's driving that and do youthink that changes from year to
year?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We look at the reasons.
So the service itself isanonymous, so we don't know
who's calling, but we do captureinformation that allows us and
guides us in our education andtraining, in our preventative
services as well.
So we will capture the primaryreason that someone calls.
We'll also capture thesecondary reason for their call
(08:12):
and then we will capture thefocus of the call With some
other de-identified data.
It just helps, again, move theservice along and make sure that
it's appropriate and relevantto the callers.
Service along and make surethat it's appropriate and
relevant to the callers.
The primary reason that peoplecall is relationships.
It's been relationships everyyear.
In my 10 years at Lifeline it'sbeen the number one reason that
(08:33):
people call, Either peoplestruggling with friendships,
intimate relationships, orfamily, work relationships.
But relationships is the numberone theme and that's often due
to relationship breakdowns.
The reason we capture,interestingly, the secondary
reason for the call is that whenyou scratch the surface and you
start to discuss the issueswith the individual, you'll see
(08:53):
that there's a reason.
Someone might ring up and say mypartner has left me and sort of
five minutes into the call,when you're connected and
there's trust there, theconversation is flowing.
You might find that they revealthat they have a gambling
addiction or they have asubstance abuse problem or
domestic violence is playing anenormous role in that dynamic.
So the crisis supporter will gowith that individual on the
(09:17):
journey.
So the top five reasons thatpeople call relationships
substance abuse or misuse, lossof a loved one, grief and
financial distress or isolation.
So there's a lot in there andsometimes those are interrelated
and complex, COVID obviouslythrough an entire layer of
(09:40):
isolation and anxiety whichwe're still seeing the
ramifications of even today anddo you find demand is fairly
consistent from year to year oris it growing over time?
demand is growing, thecomplexity of that demand is
growing.
So not only are more peoplereaching out to the service, the
calls are more complex.
(10:00):
So anxiety, antisocial behavior, burnout, harper reactivity and
isolation are, you know, sortof coming through as as themes
on on the calls that we'retaking now.
These weren't so prominent fiveyears ago.
(10:20):
So we have to ask ourselves howdo do we adapt, how do we
adjust?
What do we do further upstreamfor individuals to try and
prevent them from getting intothis space?
We will always, unfortunately,need a lifeline, but we always
try and strive to put ourselvesout of business.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And how does it work?
I mean, how are you spendingsome time on a call with someone
and then are you.
How does it work?
I mean, you're spending sometime on a call with someone and
then are you.
Is there follow-up throughLifeline or are you referring
customers on to other services?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What's the go?
There we have the mostincredibly sophisticated
database.
We will take calls fromindividuals who so, depending on
the complexity of theirsituation, their financial
position, their capability toaccess services, their transport
options, we can find servicesbased on what they would like to
(11:12):
work on.
We're there to support themdecide next steps.
Once they decide on the nextsteps, we can use our databases
to ensure that we can get themto relevant services at the
right time, in the right way andcomfortably.
Sometimes people need freeservices.
Sometimes people don't have avehicle, need public transport,
or need free public transportrather, so we will assist them
(11:35):
in all of that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, and do you provide some of that follow-up
service yourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
We don't follow up.
One of the toughest thingsabout being a crisis supporter
is that you never know whathappens.
You are there for a point intime, that point of crisis, and
if you've handed them over toemergency services, you know
sometimes you might get a loopback.
I have taken a call beforewhere an individual was
(12:03):
struggling, had overdosed andwas slowly in decline.
But I was on the call longenough and they did stay with me
long enough for the AMBO topick up the phone and say we're
with them now.
That is incredibly rare.
I've never taken another calllike it.
Often we have to walk away fromour shift knowing we were there
.
We were grateful that we werethere, but we don't know what
(12:23):
happens.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So there must be a fair degree of resilience needed
to be a volunteer for Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
That's the biggest question.
When people hear what Lifelinedoes, they say to us I wish I
could help, there's no ways Icould be on the phones.
You need time and you needempathy.
The training gives youeverything else.
It's not necessarily aresilience.
It's about being able to feelwhat you feel.
It's about going intosituations adequately prepared,
(12:54):
knowing that you were there.
It's about understanding thatyou've got everything that that
individual needs in that momentto be able to guide them through
.
The individual has to do all ofthe work.
You're really just facilitatingthat conversation.
You're listening, you'rehelping them to gain clarity and
give themselves strength.
You're finding that reason tolive and breathing life into it,
(13:15):
and that's all a skill, butthat you can acquire through the
training.
The beautiful thing about thetraining and being a volunteer
is that you use that skilloutside of the phone room as
well.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
So running a small business can be very challenging
obviously and we often hearanecdotally a lot about the
mental health of small businesspeople especially when things
aren't going so well.
Do you know and maybe you don't, because your data is
confidential and anonymous, butdo you get a lot of small
business people ringing yourservices for support?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No one's immune.
I think they are whatdifferentiates a small business
person from someone in thepublic service or someone who's
unemployed, stay-at-home parent.
What differentiates them arethe pressures that they face and
their capacity or capability totackle those stresses.
And that's when stress arises,where a challenge occurs, and
(14:12):
your skills to manage thatchallenge have a bigger or a
smaller gap.
So it's really when you look atsmall business, you look at the
economy, you look at thingsthat would put pressure on a
small business, you look atthings that would put pressure
on a small business, you look atsomething that would put
pressure on the individuals thatwork within a small business,
and then it's very easy to seewhat might cause that individual
(14:32):
stress.
The thing that we don't knowabout small business owners is
that we don't have a personaland a professional backpack.
We don't leave our personalbackpack at the door when we
arrive at work.
What goes on when they're athome?
What about their biological ortheir historical risks?
Individuals come to you withbaked in risks.
(14:53):
So there's so much more thanjust, I guess, the defining
factor that is small business.
But there are obviouslypressures that can be specific
to small businesses.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So we're recording this podcast in early 2025.
There's still obviously a lotof financial and other stress in
the community.
There's a lot of concern aboutwhat might be happening
internationally in thegeopolitical space.
What advice do you have, Carrie, for people who might be
feeling a bit down, a bitworried, a bit insecure or even
worse?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
feeling a bit down, a bit worried, a bit insecure or
even worse.
Look, it's hard to say tosomeone you know reach out, do
the work.
Sometimes people are fatiguedor they've already tried one or
two things that haven't worked.
I think if you're not in thatposition and you're sitting with
(15:43):
a clean slate thinking, well,what could I do?
Absolutely prevention,education A four-hour course can
change your life, can changethe life of someone you care
about and love, can change thetrajectory of your life.
Understanding your own physicaland emotional well-being is
something that we all need to beable to do.
(16:04):
I think what we're finding ismany, many more people are
becoming incompatible with theirenvironment, and that's showing
in their behavior and it'sshowing in the way they address
health concerns or challenges.
So what could you do isabsolutely educate yourself.
I think placing yourself in thecenter, prioritizing your
(16:27):
well-being you know, applyingyour own oxygen mask before
assisting others I think mightfeel selfish, especially in our
culture.
It's important to do it.
You can do so much more.
Self-care well-being is a very,very big priority for my team
and I and we do a lot of youknow evidence-based, but also
(16:55):
you know a spiritual or otherofferings, so that people can
access health and wellbeing.
So it's really, I think, abouttaking the time to decide where
you are.
If you're okay, try and stayokay.
Look at what you can doeducation to stay okay.
If you're feeling as thoughyou're not okay, reach out.
An organization like Lifelineisn't just there to assist
people who are having thoughtsof suicide.
(17:18):
We're there to help anyone whowants to improve their situation
or anyone that's strugglingwith a challenge.
If you feel as though you'reinjured or you're unwell
mentally, it's about going toyour GP and saying to them look
just like you would if you had acold or a flu or a headache or
an ongoing heart or stomachconcern.
(17:38):
You would go to your GP and say, look, this is hassling me, I'm
not sure what to do next.
Gps are empowered to provideyou with free mental health
sessions with psychologists.
They can provide you with amental health plan.
They can refer you on topsychiatrists if you need
assessment or treatment.
I call it a checkup from theneck up If you're looking for
something to do.
I'm sure everyone's very busy,but certainly put that as a
(18:01):
priority this year.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, and in terms of the courses that you mentioned
four-hour course to change yourlife what's sort of the price
point of that?
Are they accessible forordinary Canberrans?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The courses start at a coupleof hundred dollars, but we do
often have incredible humans whoprovide funding, so we have
free spaces in most of ourcourses and you can always
inquire about those.
During COVID, we ran freeself-compassion courses.
They booked out for eight weeksin advance.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So we know people are ready to have these
conversations.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Excellent.
And that demand, I mean youknow how much of it are you
meeting?
What's the untapped demand outthere do you think for your
services?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
In terms of the call answer rate.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Well, yeah.
I mean in terms of people whoaren't reaching out, but perhaps
could I mean what's stopping?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
that it's stigma.
So in a lot of our training,one of the primary modules is
stigma, but more importantly,self-stigma People's fear,
people's fear of ramificationsor judgment can often be a
barrier to seeking care, andthat's something that we're
working very hard to try and getaround.
A lot of, A lot of sharedstories, a lot of lived
(19:16):
experience, brave individualswho've undertaken the challenge
of overcoming their illnesses ormanaging their illnesses,
seeking support.
They talk about it and theseindividuals are inspiring and
they're everywhere.
They weren't everywhere.
10 years ago you couldn't eventalk about mental health in the
workplace.
10 years ago I know, comingfrom corporate health you could
(19:37):
go in and put an injection or avaccination in someone's arm,
but you couldn't necessarily askthem about their stress levels.
We've come a long way sincethen.
So I think one of the barriersis stigma.
That's one of the things.
We don't want to make financialor finances a barrier as well.
So we work very hard to makeeverything accessible to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about the operations
of running Lifeline.
Now.
Being a CEO sounds veryglamorous but what's the?
Practical reality of running anot-for-profit in your
experience.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh, this role is.
You know I'm so privileged tobe in the role.
I am so fortunate and gratefulto have been in the role for as
long as I have.
It's so varied.
Here I am doing a podcast.
I mean, we sound like a badjoke.
A South African and a NewZealander walk into a studio,
but we get to do podcasts.
(20:27):
This week I've done photo shoots.
I've, you know, met withministers.
You know you're out there doingincredibly what you say
glamorous things.
You're out there doingincredibly what you say,
glamorous things.
That's a very small percentageof my role.
What I would like my priorityto be is my team.
I focus as much as humanlypossible on what makes our
(20:51):
workplace a sanctuary for them.
How do they live their bestlife whilst choosing Lifeline
every day, and that's the samefor our volunteers and that
could involve, you know,emptying the bins on a Friday or
having team meetings.
It's, you know it's so varied.
I've never had a day, my mentorsaid to me, when you've had a
year like the year before, it'stime to think about leaving.
(21:13):
I haven't had a day that's likethe day before.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's very great.
So, lots of varied activity.
What are the biggest challengesyou face?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's people, you know .
I think it's one of the things.
People are the largest resourcein your organisation, and
people, by nature, can beunpredictable.
It's very easy to set in placeprocesses to give people the
tools that they need to do therole.
How ready they are, howresilient they are, what they're
(21:45):
going through, both personallyand professionally, in that
moment determines ultimately theoutput.
So ensuring that individualsare living their best lives
whilst achieving great thingsfor the organisation is the
hardest part.
But it's really about, for me,being accessible and being open
(22:06):
to and ready to have anyconversation at any time.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
What's your relationship with Lifeline
nationally, because you're theACT Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Are you part of a?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
national organisation , nationally, because you're the
ACT Lifeline Are you part of anational organisation.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So Lifeline is a brand and was born out of a
church in Sydney.
Over 60 years ago.
One reverend lost a member ofhis church to suicide and he
acquired a phone and announcedthat he would be available 24
hours a day, seven days a week,to anyone in his community that
needed help.
So from there we were born, andso you've got 42 centres around
the country who are separatefrom one another.
(22:48):
We have separate ABNs, weoperate differently and then
you've got Lifeline Australia,which is a much newer company.
They were born a couple ofdecades ago.
Ultimately, a membership wasformed, a federated structure,
and everyone that hears the wordfederation or federated
structure right now in thecommunity sector is probably
shuddering.
And the truth is, yes, we feelall of the pain and all of the
(23:10):
dysfunction that comes with thefederated structure.
We have very little to do withLifeline Australia in an
operational sense.
We have a licensing agreementwhere we provide the service
through their brand and theyprovide us with training and
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So really you're providing services for
Canberrans by Canberrans yes,100%.
If you could wave a magic wand,Carrie, what would?
You like to see happendifferently, to support
businesses in your space thatare providing mental health
support for the community.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think there is a lot of duplication.
We have hundreds of thousandsof not-for-profits.
I think we have the ability tobe a lot more efficient and I
think we have the ability towork together and collaborate
more.
Unfortunately, fundraising andfunding can be a barrier to
(24:05):
collaboration.
I learned that very early onand I understand that it is
difficult sometimes when you'veagreed or you're trying to
acquit funding, to collaborateand skew your programs.
But I think on the back endshared services we could do a
lot more to share and we do atLifeline Canberra.
We try and provide all of thedocumentation and all of the
(24:26):
infrastructure, all of thegovernance documents and
compliance documents, because wedo follow international best
practice.
With all of that We've got anincredible board.
We share that information withother not-for-profits to sort of
give them a real head start.
But I think in terms of thecurrent situation, I guess, or
(24:48):
environment, there are way toomany not-for-profits.
We do need to consolidate andwe do need to join up our
certainly our back-end serviceslike administration and finance,
to be able to send more fundingto the front line to the people
that need it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And that's obviously an ongoing challenge for anyone
in that not-for-profit space andcertainly something that's
challenging to work through, Ithink, and there's probably no
easy solutions there.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
But I wish you luck and try to work it through.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Carrie, there may be some people who are listening to
this, who are just sort ofthinking.
They'd like to reach out forsome support or perhaps access
education and training servicesthat you offer.
How should they do that?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So lifelinecanberraorgau is our
website.
That's a very easy-to-na, easyto navigate space for both
prevention, intervention andpostvention services.
If you'd like to volunteer, ifyou wanted to purchase a table
to the gala, if you wanted tofind out where to donate books,
everything is available on thatwebsite.
It's a great first port of call.
(25:54):
We are here in Canberra.
We do have a front desk and ateam that can take calls,
non-crisis related and, ofcourse, if you are needing
support, we have a dedicatedcrisis support number.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And you can access all of that through
lifelinecanberraorgau.
Excellent, carrie.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm Greg Harford and this hasbeen the Canberra Business
Podcast.
I've been talking toCarrie-Anne Leeson, the Chief
Executive of Lifeline Canberra.
It's been great having you hereand learning a little bit more
about Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And this podcast has been brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of CareSuper, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
So thanks CareSuper and thanksCarrie.
And don't forget to follow uson your favourite podcast
platform to stay up to date withthe latest edition of the
(26:44):
Canberra Business Podcast.
I'm Greg Harford from the Canberra Business Chamber,
and this is the CanberraBusiness Podcast.
Today we're talking aboutmental health and running
not-for-profit organisations,and I'm really pleased to be
joined by Carrie Ann Leeson, theChief Executive of Lifeline
Canberra.
Carrie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Now, most people here in Canberra will have heard of
Lifeline.
You've got a high profile.
You're an organisation thatexists to support people in
crisis and help save lives,particularly with a focus on
those experiencing thoughts ofsuicide.
It's really important work, butwhat are you actually doing in
the business to help those inneed?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Look, thank you for that description.
It is ultimately, for those ofus that work or associate or
volunteer with Lifeline Canberra, it's an organisation we can't
imagine a world without.
So, in terms of what we do, weoffer both preventative
intervention and postventionservices.
We concentrate on the Canberracommunity.
(01:06):
We offer our services eitherface-to-face in the prevention
space, with training, trying toeducate, whether it's suicide,
mental health, first aid,whether it's accidental
counselling or whether it'sdealing with people in difficult
situations.
On the front line, we work very, very closely in intervention
with our emergency services.
(01:27):
We have a very wonderfulrelationship with them that
spans over many decades.
It's a very, very tough spaceand we provide not only support
for them but we rely on them aswell with our service.
And then, of course, in thepostvention space, we deal with
bereaved by suicide supportgroups, individuals who have
lost loved ones to suicide.
So it's an incredibly difficultspace for the volunteers and
(01:51):
for our team to sit, but it iseasily the most rewarding
because you can see the impacton our wonderful community here
in Canberra.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Now many people when they hear about Lifeline they'll
be thinking about a crisissupport line.
But that education and trainingcomponent of what you do.
How does that work?
Who are you training and whatsort of things does that cover?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
yes.
So essentially it's sointeresting to me.
We have grown up and it's justa culturally so appropriate for
workplaces and individualswhether you're starting a family
or otherwise to take a firstaid course.
We all know how to treat asnake bite or a spider bite or a
cut.
We all know who to call in theinstance that we do have a
(02:34):
physical injury.
We are working day and night totry and educate people around
the benefits of doing mentalhealth first aid.
It's one of the biggest issuesthat most of us will face at
some point in our life, eitherourselves or supporting others,
and having the skills to be ableto do that in a meaningful and
measurable way is something thatwe should all be aiming to do.
(02:55):
I wish that everyone would makeit a resolution this year to do
some first aid training, dosome mental health first aid
training.
We'll all be safer as a result.
But the beautiful thing aboutmental health training is it
starts with yourself.
It starts with understandingself-awareness and understanding
your own signals when you aremoving along a continuum of
mental health.
We do that in the workplacesetting, in the community
(03:18):
setting and also privately.
People come in and book intoour public sessions for training
.
We do different levels oftraining depending on what
you're interested in.
If you're looking at self-careand self-awareness, we have
incredibly powerful coursesthere.
We do mental health first aidand training that's around just
understanding mental health as aconcept, understanding the
(03:39):
signs, how to have a toughconversation with individuals if
you notice that they'restruggling.
And then we do suicide firstaid and suicide intervention
training.
Our crisis supporters undertakethree months of training to be
able to take a call.
That allows them to pick upthat phone, not knowing what
might come down the other end,and be able to support the
individual through that moment.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, and that must be pretty harrowing for the
people who are taking thosecalls for your volunteers.
How many volunteers have yougot?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, so close to 1,000 volunteers.
Here in Canberra we have thehighest volunteer-to-population
ratio in the country by a longshot.
So it is the most incrediblecommunity.
We are so grateful to everyonethat volunteers and supports
Lifeline Canberra.
But it proves itself wheneverwe go to our national conference
and we get put on a graph.
(04:26):
So thank you.
Big shout out to everyone andall of our volunteers there.
We have around 1,000, around 400are on the phones and they have
to do a fortnightly shift to beable to maintain that crisis
supporter badge.
That's for two reasons they doa lot of professional
development, we do clinicalsupervision, we do ongoing
training and then, of course,there's time on the phones and
(04:47):
that's for their safety as wellas the safety of the caller.
The individuals, believe it ornot, by the time they get to
taking that call they are ready,as you say.
It sounds a bit daunting.
Having started on the phonesmyself about 15 years ago, I
remember going through thetraining and being very ready to
take that first call.
The amount of support thatLaughline Canberra staff the
(05:09):
supervisors give to the crisissupporters makes them feel very
supported in that moment,irrespective of what comes down
the phone.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So 1,000 volunteers, 400 on the phones.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
How big is?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
your team.
It must be reasonably sized tobe able to manage that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
There are 14 paid team members at Lifeline
Canberra, so we operate at aratio of about 1 to 90.
They are the most incrediblehumans.
They've all come to Lifelineeither through volunteering
themselves and, like myself, sawan opportunity to just dive
right in.
But these individuals workacross training, administration
(05:45):
and then, obviously, the safety,training and supervision of the
crisis support teams.
We've also got a couple ofincredible humans out at the
warehouse who support thevolunteers, who are processing
and sorting all of our donationsfor the book fairs.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So, in terms of how you fundraise, you've got a book
fair every year.
You seek donations from peoplein the community and corporates.
But I mean, are there otherways?
How are you funded?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
yeah.
So one of the first issues Iguess for me to solve coming
into the role was the issuearound funding.
The government funding that wereceive is around the two
hundred thousand dollar perannum mark.
That's um very little if youlook at the amount of service we
provide in Canberra to over40,000 Canberrans.
Almost 10% of the Canberracommunity utilize our services
(06:34):
at some point during a year.
So we had to find another way.
We developed commercialoperations so we generate our
own revenue through thecorporate training.
We have evidence-based programsand partnerships with Canada,
licenses that only exist throughour brand and we deliver
training through departments,through the emergency services,
through private sector andcommunity sector organizations,
(06:57):
and that generates the revenuethat we require to be able to
deliver the service to the highdegree that we do.
We also then have all of ourfundraising.
Which is the lifeblood of ourorganisation is that book fair.
We have three a year.
They are huge.
We've also got our gala eventsand then we've got incredible
third-party fundraising whereindividuals come to us and say I
(07:19):
would like to do this, that orthe next thing and we want the
proceeds to go to your services.
So we work across all of thoseareas financially to be able to
sustain the service.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And the service is well used.
Right, I understand there's 35,perhaps a little over 35,000
callers a year into Lifelinethat suggests that demand is
massive really out there in thecommunity.
What's driving that and do youthink that changes from year to
year?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We look at the reasons.
So the service itself isanonymous, so we don't know
who's calling, but we do captureinformation that allows us and
guides us in our education andtraining, in our preventative
services as well.
So we will capture the primaryreason that someone calls.
We'll also capture thesecondary reason for their call
(08:12):
and then we will capture thefocus of the call With some
other de-identified data.
It just helps, again, move theservice along and make sure that
it's appropriate and relevantto the callers.
Service along and make surethat it's appropriate and
relevant to the callers.
The primary reason that peoplecall is relationships.
It's been relationships everyyear.
In my 10 years at Lifeline it'sbeen the number one reason that
(08:33):
people call, Either peoplestruggling with friendships,
intimate relationships, orfamily, work relationships.
But relationships is the numberone theme and that's often due
to relationship breakdowns.
The reason we capture,interestingly, the secondary
reason for the call is that whenyou scratch the surface and you
start to discuss the issueswith the individual, you'll see
(08:53):
that there's a reason.
Someone might ring up and say mypartner has left me and sort of
five minutes into the call,when you're connected and
there's trust there, theconversation is flowing.
You might find that they revealthat they have a gambling
addiction or they have asubstance abuse problem or
domestic violence is playing anenormous role in that dynamic.
So the crisis supporter will gowith that individual on the
(09:17):
journey.
So the top five reasons thatpeople call relationships
substance abuse or misuse, lossof a loved one, grief and
financial distress or isolation.
So there's a lot in there andsometimes those are interrelated
and complex, COVID obviouslythrough an entire layer of
(09:40):
isolation and anxiety whichwe're still seeing the
ramifications of even today anddo you find demand is fairly
consistent from year to year oris it growing over time?
demand is growing, thecomplexity of that demand is
growing.
So not only are more peoplereaching out to the service, the
calls are more complex.
(10:00):
So anxiety, antisocial behavior, burnout, harper reactivity and
isolation are, you know, sortof coming through as as themes
on on the calls that we'retaking now.
These weren't so prominent fiveyears ago.
(10:20):
So we have to ask ourselves howdo do we adapt, how do we
adjust?
What do we do further upstreamfor individuals to try and
prevent them from getting intothis space?
We will always, unfortunately,need a lifeline, but we always
try and strive to put ourselvesout of business.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And how does it work?
I mean, how are you spendingsome time on a call with someone
and then are you.
How does it work?
I mean, you're spending sometime on a call with someone and
then are you.
Is there follow-up throughLifeline or are you referring
customers on to other services?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What's the go?
There we have the mostincredibly sophisticated
database.
We will take calls fromindividuals who so, depending on
the complexity of theirsituation, their financial
position, their capability toaccess services, their transport
options, we can find servicesbased on what they would like to
(11:12):
work on.
We're there to support themdecide next steps.
Once they decide on the nextsteps, we can use our databases
to ensure that we can get themto relevant services at the
right time, in the right way andcomfortably.
Sometimes people need freeservices.
Sometimes people don't have avehicle, need public transport,
or need free public transportrather, so we will assist them
(11:35):
in all of that.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, and do you provide some of that follow-up
service yourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
We don't follow up.
One of the toughest thingsabout being a crisis supporter
is that you never know whathappens.
You are there for a point intime, that point of crisis, and
if you've handed them over toemergency services, you know
sometimes you might get a loopback.
I have taken a call beforewhere an individual was
(12:03):
struggling, had overdosed andwas slowly in decline.
But I was on the call longenough and they did stay with me
long enough for the AMBO topick up the phone and say we're
with them now.
That is incredibly rare.
I've never taken another calllike it.
Often we have to walk away fromour shift knowing we were there
.
We were grateful that we werethere, but we don't know what
(12:23):
happens.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So there must be a fair degree of resilience needed
to be a volunteer for Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
That's the biggest question.
When people hear what Lifelinedoes, they say to us I wish I
could help, there's no ways Icould be on the phones.
You need time and you needempathy.
The training gives youeverything else.
It's not necessarily aresilience.
It's about being able to feelwhat you feel.
It's about going intosituations adequately prepared,
(12:54):
knowing that you were there.
It's about understanding thatyou've got everything that that
individual needs in that momentto be able to guide them through
.
The individual has to do all ofthe work.
You're really just facilitatingthat conversation.
You're listening, you'rehelping them to gain clarity and
give themselves strength.
You're finding that reason tolive and breathing life into it,
(13:15):
and that's all a skill, butthat you can acquire through the
training.
The beautiful thing about thetraining and being a volunteer
is that you use that skilloutside of the phone room as
well.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
So running a small business can be very challenging
obviously and we often hearanecdotally a lot about the
mental health of small businesspeople especially when things
aren't going so well.
Do you know and maybe you don't, because your data is
confidential and anonymous, butdo you get a lot of small
business people ringing yourservices for support?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
No one's immune.
I think they are whatdifferentiates a small business
person from someone in thepublic service or someone who's
unemployed, stay-at-home parent.
What differentiates them arethe pressures that they face and
their capacity or capability totackle those stresses.
And that's when stress arises,where a challenge occurs, and
(14:12):
your skills to manage thatchallenge have a bigger or a
smaller gap.
So it's really when you look atsmall business, you look at the
economy, you look at thingsthat would put pressure on a
small business, you look atthings that would put pressure
on a small business, you look atsomething that would put
pressure on the individuals thatwork within a small business,
and then it's very easy to seewhat might cause that individual
(14:32):
stress.
The thing that we don't knowabout small business owners is
that we don't have a personaland a professional backpack.
We don't leave our personalbackpack at the door when we
arrive at work.
What goes on when they're athome?
What about their biological ortheir historical risks?
Individuals come to you withbaked in risks.
(14:53):
So there's so much more thanjust, I guess, the defining
factor that is small business.
But there are obviouslypressures that can be specific
to small businesses.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So we're recording this podcast in early 2025.
There's still obviously a lotof financial and other stress in
the community.
There's a lot of concern aboutwhat might be happening
internationally in thegeopolitical space.
What advice do you have, Carrie, for people who might be
feeling a bit down, a bitworried, a bit insecure or even
worse?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
feeling a bit down, a bit worried, a bit insecure or
even worse.
Look, it's hard to say tosomeone you know reach out, do
the work.
Sometimes people are fatiguedor they've already tried one or
two things that haven't worked.
I think if you're not in thatposition and you're sitting with
(15:43):
a clean slate thinking, well,what could I do?
Absolutely prevention,education A four-hour course can
change your life, can changethe life of someone you care
about and love, can change thetrajectory of your life.
Understanding your own physicaland emotional well-being is
something that we all need to beable to do.
(16:04):
I think what we're finding ismany, many more people are
becoming incompatible with theirenvironment, and that's showing
in their behavior and it'sshowing in the way they address
health concerns or challenges.
So what could you do isabsolutely educate yourself.
I think placing yourself in thecenter, prioritizing your
(16:27):
well-being you know, applyingyour own oxygen mask before
assisting others I think mightfeel selfish, especially in our
culture.
It's important to do it.
You can do so much more.
Self-care well-being is a very,very big priority for my team
and I and we do a lot of youknow evidence-based, but also
(16:55):
you know a spiritual or otherofferings, so that people can
access health and wellbeing.
So it's really, I think, abouttaking the time to decide where
you are.
If you're okay, try and stayokay.
Look at what you can doeducation to stay okay.
If you're feeling as thoughyou're not okay, reach out.
An organization like Lifelineisn't just there to assist
people who are having thoughtsof suicide.
(17:18):
We're there to help anyone whowants to improve their situation
or anyone that's strugglingwith a challenge.
If you feel as though you'reinjured or you're unwell
mentally, it's about going toyour GP and saying to them look
just like you would if you had acold or a flu or a headache or
an ongoing heart or stomachconcern.
(17:38):
You would go to your GP and say, look, this is hassling me, I'm
not sure what to do next.
Gps are empowered to provideyou with free mental health
sessions with psychologists.
They can provide you with amental health plan.
They can refer you on topsychiatrists if you need
assessment or treatment.
I call it a checkup from theneck up If you're looking for
something to do.
I'm sure everyone's very busy,but certainly put that as a
(18:01):
priority this year.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay, and in terms of the courses that you mentioned
four-hour course to change yourlife what's sort of the price
point of that?
Are they accessible forordinary Canberrans?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The courses start at a coupleof hundred dollars, but we do
often have incredible humans whoprovide funding, so we have
free spaces in most of ourcourses and you can always
inquire about those.
During COVID, we ran freeself-compassion courses.
They booked out for eight weeksin advance.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
So we know people are ready to have these
conversations.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Excellent.
And that demand, I mean youknow how much of it are you
meeting?
What's the untapped demand outthere do you think for your
services?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
In terms of the call answer rate.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Well, yeah.
I mean in terms of people whoaren't reaching out, but perhaps
could I mean what's stopping?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
that it's stigma.
So in a lot of our training,one of the primary modules is
stigma, but more importantly,self-stigma People's fear,
people's fear of ramificationsor judgment can often be a
barrier to seeking care, andthat's something that we're
working very hard to try and getaround.
A lot of, A lot of sharedstories, a lot of lived
(19:16):
experience, brave individualswho've undertaken the challenge
of overcoming their illnesses ormanaging their illnesses,
seeking support.
They talk about it and theseindividuals are inspiring and
they're everywhere.
They weren't everywhere.
10 years ago you couldn't eventalk about mental health in the
workplace.
10 years ago I know, comingfrom corporate health you could
(19:37):
go in and put an injection or avaccination in someone's arm,
but you couldn't necessarily askthem about their stress levels.
We've come a long way sincethen.
So I think one of the barriersis stigma.
That's one of the things.
We don't want to make financialor finances a barrier as well.
So we work very hard to makeeverything accessible to
everyone.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about the operations
of running Lifeline.
Now.
Being a CEO sounds veryglamorous but what's the?
Practical reality of running anot-for-profit in your
experience.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh, this role is.
You know I'm so privileged tobe in the role.
I am so fortunate and gratefulto have been in the role for as
long as I have.
It's so varied.
Here I am doing a podcast.
I mean, we sound like a badjoke.
A South African and a NewZealander walk into a studio,
but we get to do podcasts.
(20:27):
This week I've done photo shoots.
I've, you know, met withministers.
You know you're out there doingincredibly what you say
glamorous things.
You're out there doingincredibly what you say,
glamorous things.
That's a very small percentageof my role.
What I would like my priorityto be is my team.
I focus as much as humanlypossible on what makes our
(20:51):
workplace a sanctuary for them.
How do they live their bestlife whilst choosing Lifeline
every day, and that's the samefor our volunteers and that
could involve, you know,emptying the bins on a Friday or
having team meetings.
It's, you know it's so varied.
I've never had a day, my mentorsaid to me, when you've had a
year like the year before, it'stime to think about leaving.
(21:13):
I haven't had a day that's likethe day before.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's very great.
So, lots of varied activity.
What are the biggest challengesyou face?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
It's people, you know .
I think it's one of the things.
People are the largest resourcein your organisation, and
people, by nature, can beunpredictable.
It's very easy to set in placeprocesses to give people the
tools that they need to do therole.
How ready they are, howresilient they are, what they're
(21:45):
going through, both personallyand professionally, in that
moment determines ultimately theoutput.
So ensuring that individualsare living their best lives
whilst achieving great thingsfor the organisation is the
hardest part.
But it's really about, for me,being accessible and being open
(22:06):
to and ready to have anyconversation at any time.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
What's your relationship with Lifeline
nationally, because you're theACT Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Are you part of a?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
national organisation , nationally, because you're the
ACT Lifeline Are you part of anational organisation.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So Lifeline is a brand and was born out of a
church in Sydney.
Over 60 years ago.
One reverend lost a member ofhis church to suicide and he
acquired a phone and announcedthat he would be available 24
hours a day, seven days a week,to anyone in his community that
needed help.
So from there we were born, andso you've got 42 centres around
the country who are separatefrom one another.
(22:48):
We have separate ABNs, weoperate differently and then
you've got Lifeline Australia,which is a much newer company.
They were born a couple ofdecades ago.
Ultimately, a membership wasformed, a federated structure,
and everyone that hears the wordfederation or federated
structure right now in thecommunity sector is probably
shuddering.
And the truth is, yes, we feelall of the pain and all of the
(23:10):
dysfunction that comes with thefederated structure.
We have very little to do withLifeline Australia in an
operational sense.
We have a licensing agreementwhere we provide the service
through their brand and theyprovide us with training and
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So really you're providing services for
Canberrans by Canberrans yes,100%.
If you could wave a magic wand,Carrie, what would?
You like to see happendifferently, to support
businesses in your space thatare providing mental health
support for the community.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think there is a lot of duplication.
We have hundreds of thousandsof not-for-profits.
I think we have the ability tobe a lot more efficient and I
think we have the ability towork together and collaborate
more.
Unfortunately, fundraising andfunding can be a barrier to
(24:05):
collaboration.
I learned that very early onand I understand that it is
difficult sometimes when you'veagreed or you're trying to
acquit funding, to collaborateand skew your programs.
But I think on the back endshared services we could do a
lot more to share and we do atLifeline Canberra.
We try and provide all of thedocumentation and all of the
(24:26):
infrastructure, all of thegovernance documents and
compliance documents, because wedo follow international best
practice.
With all of that We've got anincredible board.
We share that information withother not-for-profits to sort of
give them a real head start.
But I think in terms of thecurrent situation, I guess, or
(24:48):
environment, there are way toomany not-for-profits.
We do need to consolidate andwe do need to join up our
certainly our back-end serviceslike administration and finance,
to be able to send more fundingto the front line to the people
that need it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And that's obviously an ongoing challenge for anyone
in that not-for-profit space andcertainly something that's
challenging to work through, Ithink, and there's probably no
easy solutions there.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
But I wish you luck and try to work it through.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Carrie, there may be some people who are listening to
this, who are just sort ofthinking.
They'd like to reach out forsome support or perhaps access
education and training servicesthat you offer.
How should they do that?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So lifelinecanberraorgau is our
website.
That's a very easy-to-na, easyto navigate space for both
prevention, intervention andpostvention services.
If you'd like to volunteer, ifyou wanted to purchase a table
to the gala, if you wanted tofind out where to donate books,
everything is available on thatwebsite.
It's a great first port of call.
(25:54):
We are here in Canberra.
We do have a front desk and ateam that can take calls,
non-crisis related and, ofcourse, if you are needing
support, we have a dedicatedcrisis support number.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
And you can access all of that through
lifelinecanberraorgau.
Excellent, carrie.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm Greg Harford and this hasbeen the Canberra Business
Podcast.
I've been talking toCarrie-Anne Leeson, the Chief
Executive of Lifeline Canberra.
It's been great having you hereand learning a little bit more
about Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And this podcast has been brought to you by the
Canberra Business Chamber withthe support of CareSuper, an
industry super fund withcompetitive fees and returns,
exceptional service and a focuson real care.
So thanks CareSuper and thanksCarrie.
And don't forget to follow uson your favourite podcast
platform to stay up to date withthe latest edition of the
(26:44):
Canberra Business Podcast.
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